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THE WHITEWASHING OF MAMAN BRIGITTE

Why it is problematic to portray Maman Brigitte (Grann Brijitte) as a white woman

Companion piece to: https://the-girl-who-didnt-smile.tumblr.com/post/761617414938148864/baron-samedi-vs-papa-guede

Disclaimer: I have no ancestral ties to Haiti. I am half White and not Black. The following is merely an opinion piece, which I have attempted to support with evidence.

If you have ever attempted to research New Orleans Voodoo, you’ve probably encountered descriptions of Maman Brigitte like so:

In Voodoo, Ma'man Brigit (Grann Brigitte, Manman, Manman Brigit, Manman Brijit) is the mother of cemeteries, the loa of money and death, and the wife of Baron Samedi. She may be related to the "triple" Celtic goddess of poetry, smithcraft, and healing, Brigid/St. Brigit, as her name is Irish in origin. She is usually depicted as a white woman.

The above is inaccurate.

Traditionally, Haitian artists depict Maman Brigitte as a Black woman, where she is not white, biracial, or lighter skinned than Baron Samedi.

Baron Samedi, Grande Brigitte, and Guede Nibo, as portrayed by Andre Pierre.

Grann Brijitte, as portrayed by Amina Simeon.

Baron Samedi and Maman Brigitte, as portrayed by Gerard Paul.

Grann Brijit, as portrayed by Roudy Azor.

Grann Brijit, as portrayed by Salnave Philippe-Auguste.

Where does the notion of a white Maman Brigitte come from?

In “Gran Brijit: Haitian Vodou Guardian of the Cemetery” (2010), Kerry Noonan examines the roots of the Vodou lwa Gran Brijit, and her connection to the Irish Saint Brigid. There are several parts I disagree with, but it is helpful as an overview.

In a key section, Noonan cites Milo Marcelin’s Mythologie Vodou Vol. 2 (1950). In this volume, Marcelin includes a two-page description of Maman Brigitte (Grande Brijitte). The first paragraph of this section reads as follows:

Grande Brijitte, femme de Baron-Samedi et mère des Guédé, est une négresse très vieille —c’est pourquoi on l’appelle grande (grand' mère). Elle est identifiée à Sainte Brigitte, patronne de l’Irlande; elle a pour reposoir un «cirouellier» (spondias purpurea L.) ou un figuier maudit marron (clusia rosea Jacq.) et, parfois, dans les cimetières, un amoncellement de pierres la représente. Ses jours sont le lundi et vendredi, sa couleur, le noir.

English Translation:

Grande Brijitte, wife of Baron-Samedi and mother of the Gede, is a very old Black woman – this is why she is called “grande” (grandmother). She is identified with Saint Brigid, patron saint of Ireland; she has as her resting place a “cironelle” (spondias purpurea L.) or an autograph tree (clusia rosea Jacq.) and, sometimes, in the cemeteries, a pile of black stones represents her. Her days are Monday and Friday, her color, black.

Noonan notes several similarities between Saint Brigid and Maman Brigitte, including similar ceremonies, similar offerings (notably, potatoes and chicken), and a shared association with crosses. She also notes circumstances where Saint Brigid becomes speechless, which is similar to Marcelin’s description of Maman Brigitte: “Grande Brijitte ne parle jamais.”

The full excerpt from Mythologie Vodou, Vol. II is found on pages 177-178, and included at the bottom of this article, in APPENDIX A.

Noonan also notes similarities between the Yoruba orisha Oya and Maman Brigitte. Moreover, the association between the cross and Maman Brigitte is not rooted in a European understanding of the cross, but an African one.

From Leslie Gerland Desmangles’ (1997) “African interpretations of the Christian cross in Vodun”:

“The symbol of the cross is central to Vodun's ceremonies…While it is true that the Catholic crosses in Haiti may well have been invested with Vodun meaning, the cross symbol in Vodun does not originate in Catholicism but in African mythology. In Dahomey, for example, the universe is conceived as a sphere transected by two mutually perpendicular and intersecting planes, which, perceived in a cross-section of the sphere, represent the arms of a cross…the cross symbol in Vodun cannot be seen as representing a symbolic relationship between Roman Catholicism and Vodun but indicates the retention of African religious elements on Haitian soil.”

The above applies to the lwa associated with liminality – especially Papa Legba, but also the lwa of the Dead, including Baron Samedi and Maman Brigitte.

From Benjamin Hebblethwaite (2021) A Transatlantic History of Haitian Vodou:

“The Cross of Crosses, mentioned in line 3, is the intersection of life and death. The center of the cross is where Bawon, Brijit, and the Gede take charge of the passage from life to death. The “Cross” is a crossroads (kafou) linking the living with the ancestors under the water.”

Noonan asserts that Maman Brigitte is identified with Saint Brigitte because of the influence of “Irish settlers and sailors and Breton priests". In one of the most objectionable sections of this article, Noonan characterizes the “Irish settlers” as “indentured servants”.

As indentured servants, Irish and Scottish people were sent to territories under the control of the British Empire. The British West Indies did not include present-day Haiti. Presumably, Noonan is referring to fugitive indentured servants, called “ingleses”. In “Irish Indentured Servants, Papists and Colonists in Spanish Colonial Puerto Rico” (2007), Jorge L. Chinea claims that “Puerto Rico, Hispaniola and Cuba became popular destinations for the fugitives.”

Chinea also describes how the Spanish repeatedly denied the Irish authorization to settle in Hispaniola during the late 1600s: “In this instance, their potential infringement on the Spanish American trade in a colony already heavily involved in contraband was a major reason for turning them down.”

Nowhere does Noonan mention the influence of Irish slave owners.

"The many Haitians and West Indians who trace their ancestry back to Africans transported on Irish-owned slave ships are living proof that the Irish have not always been the victims of history."

– Joe O’Shea (2012) “The Irish have not always been the victims of history”:

In “Irishness, Whiteness, Blackness, and Slavery in the Early Modern World” (2022), Jane Ohlmeyer describes how the Irish contributed to “one of the harshest systems of servitude in western history” during the 18th century:

“Of the 550 families involved in the French slave trade, seventeen had Irish surnames. One of the most successful Irish slavers was Antoine Walsh, the son of an Irish merchant who had settled in France in the later seventeenth century and married Marie O’Sheil/Shiell, whose grandfather had settled in France. Over the course of his career Walsh made forty slaving trips from Nantes and shipped more than 12,000 enslaved Africans. With his profits Walsh purchased a plantation for himself in the French colony of Saint-Domingue (modern day Haiti), which supplied up to seventy percent of all of the sugar sent to France.”

Rather than indentured servants, it is likely that Breton priests are behind the Maman Brigitte-Saint Brigid connection.

In “Rev. John J. Burke, the National Catholic Welfare Conference, and the American Occupation of Haiti” (2014) Donald J. Slawson describes how Roman Catholicism was brought to Haiti:

“The concordat between the Vatican and Haiti dated to 1860. From the time of Haitian independence in 1804 until that year, the condition of the Catholic Church in that country was deplorable…As early as 1834, Rome and Port-au-Prince had entered into negotiations to regularize the status of the Church in Haiti. President Fabre Geffrard finally achieved that goal…Given the nation’s colonial and cultural ties with France, the bishops and clergy came from Brittany.”

Noonan describes the importance of Saint Brigid to Breton priests: "Catholics in both Ireland and Brittany are devoted to the Irish St. Brigit of Kildare, and many churches are dedicated to her in both areas."

According to Sidney Mintz & Michel-Rolph Trouillot's "The Social History of Haitian Vodou", many features of modern Vodou took shape in the century that followed the Haitian Revolution. During this time period, Roman Catholics were sent to Haiti for the purpose of religious imperialism. They were openly hostile toward vodouisants, and sought to destroy African-based traditions.

This attitude persisted into the 20th century, as described by Melville Herskovits in Life in a Haitian valley (1964):

“The attitude of the Church toward vodun is one of intransigent hostility. The anger with which the priest preached his sermon on the Sunday morning following a vodun dance held close enough to town so that the sound of the drums, plainly audible, "disturbed" him the night long, clearly indicates how deeply the priests of the Church resent the worship of the African gods. In Mirebalais they tell how, at the instance of the Church, vodun rites were unmercifully suppressed by the Americans during the occupation, to whom it was represented as a potential focus for revolt. In the place huge bonfires were made of vodun drums painted and "dressed" in elaborate manner. Everything found in the humforts and the private houses of worship was confiscated, and the "thunder stones," necklaces of the devotees, and other sacred objects that would not burn were thrown into the Artibonite River. Today the Church takes full advantage of its status as the only recognized religious organization in Haiti to dictate the official position of government toward vodun.”

It is for this reason that several of the lwa have Europeanized names, including “Baron Samedi”. Maman Brigitte is not named after Saint Brigid because of friendships between African slaves and Irish indentured servants. Instead, it is because European priests imposed the worship of white saints onto a Black population.

The narrative that connects Maman Brigitte to indentured servants is a fiction invented by white people.

Pictured: Mambo Racine

“Maman Brigitte, the Mother of the Gedes” is a Google Groups conversation on alt.religion.orisha, dated Jun 16, 2001 - Jun 19, 2001. In this conversation, which may have only involved white people, there is an exchange between Mambo Racine and Kenaz Filan (at the time, named Kevin Filan).

The full conversation is included in APPENDIX B. The top post is the most relevant one:

Maman Brigitte is a manifestation of the Celtic Goddess Brigid. During the formative period of Haitian Vodou, many Scottish people were deported from Scotland to the Antilles because of the Stuart wars, and those Scots were the most traditionalist, the least Christianized. They were the ones who brought Brigid to Haiti.

During this time, blacks outnumbered whites about 4000 to one. This is a literal fact. So it is unlikely that those few whites could prevent Africans from having drum dances - it seems to me more likely that an uneasy truce obtained, you know, the whites said in effect, "Do your work and I will leave you alone."

At that time the whites most likely to participate in drum dances were of course the poor whites, not the few French elite whites. And among them, the most likely people to participate were the women - just the folks most likely to have preserved the service of Brigid.

(Before I go any further let me suggest that anyone who hasn't read Jayelle's "White Women in Vodou" do so!)

Now, the first woman buried in any cemetary is by definition Brigid, and the first man buried in any cemetary is by definition Baron. Of course when those drum-dancing poor Scottish women died they were buried in the same earth as Africans, and the agglomerative, pragmatic nature of Vodou as it developed would of course naturally incorporate Brigid, and metamorphose her into Maman Brigitte.

Now, to make Gede lwa, Maman Brigitte and Baron La Croix take souls from "under the water" and rebaptize them. That is why all Gede lwa have the last name La Croix, because their father is Baron La Croix. This is a real birth, out of the waters, Baron and Brigitte are not "adoptive parents", they are as much parents as any parent can be.

For more information on the travels of one Gede lwa, see "Biography of a Lwa" under the Special Topics heading on The VODOU Page. And for more information on ancestral lwa in general, see Vodou Lesson 2 under the Vodou Lesson heading on The VODOU Page.

Peace and love,

Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen

"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare Haitian Proverb

The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html

It goes without saying, this is not well-researched.

This is how Maman Brigitte became something of a “patron saint” for white people involving themselves in Vodou, at the expense of Black women.

It feels childish that I even have to say this, but I don’t want anyone to send this woman hate. I don’t think it is fair to rake someone over the coals for saying something stupid over 20 years ago. Additionally, it would be unfair to pin the blame on this one person, as she is not necessarily the originator and it was clearly a group of people who believed this. Rather, it is important to learn from past mistakes by examining the cause and effect.

This false narrative didn’t stay confined to a small group of people. It spread into publications, which are now sitting in libraries and websites all over the internet.

Recall the description I included at the beginning:

This is an excerpt from Denise Alvarado’s (2009) The Voodoo Hoodoo Spellbook. This is one of several popular books that mischaracterizes Maman Brigitte in this manner. Artists, authors, and other creators read these books, which informs their character designs.

See how Maman Brigitte is typically portrayed in popular media:

This is not the fault of this actress, at all. American Gods was actually praised for its portrayal of African spiritualities! At least, by some people… There could be intense internet discourse about how bad this portrayal was, which I am not privy to because I don’t use Twitter…

I genuinely think the creative team behind American Gods (and possibly Smite…I wouldn’t know because I don’t play…) made a serious attempt to research New Orleans Voodoo. It is not because they didn’t care or try to research this topic; rather, it speaks to how widespread and deep-rooted this problem is.

This matters because it contributes to colorism and racism against women. All across popular media, dark-skinned Black women are denigrated and erased, which impacts how people see and treat Black women in real life. Whenever they do appear, they are often stereotyped and/or excessively criticized by audiences, who can’t be normal around a “twofer minority”. This pattern has been the norm for most of human history. It went uncriticized until very recently, and continues into the present day.

More to the point, the lwa are sacred to Vodouisants of Haitian heritage. Haiti Vodou is embedded in the history of Haiti – the first nation to permanently ban slavery. This was won through a bloody Revolution, which is why the lwa are these warrior-like gods of justice. The whitewashing of religious figures is disgraceful–especially the lwa of Haiti.

There are regional differences in Haitian Vodou, which is why accounts from different, credible sources can vary. Unfortunately, this is used as an excuse to invent falsehoods about the lwa. It is inaccurate to describe Maman Brigitte as a mere manifestation of the European saint or goddess, as this erases her African and Caribbean elements. Instead of viewing her as European or African in origin, Maman Brigitte is best described as a lwa that is uniquely indigenous to Haiti.

Haitian Vodou is a part of Haitian national heritage, and the lwa are ancestral to the Haitian people. We should respect the depiction of Maman Brigitte as she is portrayed by Haitians.

She is not this:

But this:

CITATION LIST:

Alvarado, Denise. Voodoo hoodoo spellbook. Weiser Books, 2011: p. 34.

Chinea, Jorge L. "Irish Indentured Servants, Papists and Colonists in Spanish Colonial Puerto Rico, ca. 1650-1800." Irish Migration Studies in Latin America 5.3 (2007): pp. 171-81. https://www.irlandeses.org/0711.pdf#page=35

Desmangles, Leslie Gerald. “African Interpretations of the Christian Cross in Vodun.” Sociological Analysis, vol. 38, no. 1, 1977, pp. 13–24. JSTOR, https://doi.org/10.2307/3709833. Accessed 9 Sept. 2024.

Hebblethwaite, Benjamin. A Transatlantic History of Haitian Vodou: Rasin Figuier, Rasin Bwa Kayiman, and the Rada and Gede Rites. United States, University Press of Mississippi, 2021. p. 204

Herskovits, Melville J.. Life in a Haitian Valley. United States, Octagon Books, 1964: pp. 289-290. https://archive.org/details/lifeinhaitianval0000hers/page/288/mode/2up

Marcelin, Milo. "Mythologie vodou (Rite Arada), Volume II." Pétionville: Éditions Canapé Vert (1950). pp. 177-178

Mintz, Sidney & Trouillot, Michel-Rolph. “The Social History of Haitian Vodou”. In Cosentino, Donald. Sacred Arts of Haitian Vodou. United States, UCLA Fowler Museum of Cultural History, 1995: pp. 123-147. https://ghettobiennale.org/files/Trouillot_Mintz_LOW.pdf

Noonan, Kerry. “Gran Brijit: Haitian Vodou Guardian of the Cemetery.” In Goddesses in World Culture: Volume 3, Australia and the Americas, edited by Patricia Monoghan, 123-133. Denver, Colorado: Praeger, 2011

Ohlmeyer, Jane. “Irishness, Whiteness, Blackness, and Slavery in the Early Modern World.” American Journal of Irish Studies, vol. 17, 2022, pp. 5–38. JSTOR, https://www.jstor.org/stable/27290673. Accessed 9 Sept. 2024.

Slawson, Douglas J. “Rev. John J. Burke, the National Catholic Welfare Conference, and the American Occupation of Haiti (1915-34).” The Catholic Historical Review, vol. 100, no. 3, 2014, pp. 514–54. JSTOR, http://www.jstor.org/stable/43898675. Accessed 9 Sept. 2024.

APPENDIX A: FULL EXCERPT FROM MILO MARCELIN’S (1950) MYTHOLOGIE VODOU VOL. 2:

GRANDE BRIJITTE

Grande Brijitte est aussi puissante que son mari. Parfois elle préside au cimetière. Si la première personne enterrée dans un cimetière nouvellement construit est un homme, on dit qu'il est Baron-Samedi et il est le maître de ce cimetière; si c’est une femme, elle est Grande Brijitte et elle est maîtresse de ce cimetière.

Les cas de possessions de Grande Brijitte sont fort rares. Quand elle possède une personne, celle-ci est comme morte. On lui bande la mâchoire avec un foulard noir, on lui met du coton aux oreilles et aux narines, on la couvre d'un drap blanc, on l'asperge de clairin (rhum blanc) et on chante:

Ou dit Manman Brijitte couché,

L’ap’ dômi!

Ou dit Manman Brijitte couché,

L’ap’ dômi!

Lô-r la réveillé,

Dèniè hounsi dô-bas!

D'leau lan gé Manman Brijitte!

Lô-r la réveillé

Dèniè hounsi dô-bas!

Tu dis que Maman Brijitte est couchée,— Et qu'elle dort! — Tu dis que Maman Brijitte est couchée, — Et qu'elle dort! — Quand elle se réveillera,— Toutes les hounsis (serviteurs du temple) seront dos bas! — Il y a de l'eau dans les yeux de Maman Brijitte! — Lors-qu’elle se réveillera, — Toutes les hounsis seront dos bas!

Grande Brijitte ne parle jamais. Quand elle se retire de son cheval (de sa possédée), on chante parfois cette chanson:

Manman Brijitte alé

Guingue, gongue!

Manman Brijitte alé

Guingue, gongue!

Manman Brijitte est partie – Guingue, gongue (tintement de la cloche: le glas funèbre!) – Maman Brijitte est partie – Guingue, gongue!

Parfois Grande Brijitte et Baron-Samedi apparaissent ensemble. On revêt ce dernier d'un linceul, on lui met aussi du coton aux oreilles et aux narines. Il s'assied sur le lit où est étendue sa femme. Lui non plus ne parle pas, ne boit pas, ne fume pas. On les veille alors, comme on fait pour les morts.

Une invocation à Grande Brijitte:

Brave, oh!

Alé rhélé Manzè Brijitte pou mouin!

M’ prall’ Thomazeau!

M’ pa gaingnin Manman,

Qui pou palé pou mouin!

M’ pa gaingnin Papa,

Qui pou palé pou mouin!

Brave, oh!

Alé rhélé Manzè Brijitte pou mouin!

M’ prall’ Thomazeau!

Brave (Guédé), oh! — Va appeler Mam'zelle Brigitte pour moi! — Je vais à Thomazeau (ville du Département de l’Ouest)! — Je n’ai pas de Maman, — Pour prendre ma défense! — Je n’ai pas de Papa, — Pour prendre ma défense! — Brave, oh!— Va chercher Mam’zelle Brijitte pour moi! — Je vais à Thomazeau!

Le menu rite du repas de Grande Brijitte est composé de patates, de bananes (plantain), du hareng-sel et de la morue boucanés, du maïs et des pistaches grillés, du gros-sirop (sirop de canne à sucre). On lui offre du clairin (rhum blanc) et en sacrifice, des poules noires.

APPENDIX B: “Maman Brigitte, the Mother of the Gedes”

Racine125

Jun 16, 2001, 4:37:00 PM

Maman Brigitte is a manifestation of the Celtic Goddess Brigid. During the

formative period of Haitian Vodou, many Scottish people were deported from

Scotland to the Antilles because of the Stuart wars, and those Scots were the

most traditionalist, the least Christianized. They were the ones who brought

Brigid to Haiti.

(Before I go any further let me suggest that anyone who hasn't read Jayelle's "White Women in Vodou" do so!)

Peace and love,

Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen

"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare Haitian Proverb

The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html

Kevin Filan

Jun 17, 2001, 3:43:50 PM

Thanks for a fascinating essay on Maman Brigitte. While I can't comment

on her place in Haitian Vodou, I do have some knowledge of Scots and

British history, as well as a bit of experience doing scholarly

research. While I think you make a couple of questionable assertions,

you also have raised some interesting points.

Racine125 wrote: > > Maman Brigitte is a manifestation of the Celtic Goddess Brigid. During the > formative period of Haitian Vodou, many Scottish people were deported from > Scotland to the Antilles because of the Stuart wars, and those Scots were the > most traditionalist, the least Christianized. They were the ones who brought > Brigid to Haiti.

http://www.learner.org/biographyofamerica/prog13/feature/index_text.html

Tells us the first African slaves in the New World arrived in Hispaniola in 1501... and the first slave rebellion in Hispaniola was in 1522. By that time Scotland had been Christian for over a thousand years. While Neopagans love to speculate about isolated villages practicing "the Olde Pagan Customs" well into the 20th century, I've yet to see any evidence of same. I certainly doubt VERY strongly that there were any Scotsmen of that time, no matter how isolated a little town they came from, who would have considered themselves "Brigid worshippers." I'm even inclined to think that by the time of the Stuart Wars poor White indentured servants were largely becoming a thing of the past, as the Slave routes became well-established and the full horror of that machinery was coming into operation. There were certainly Catholic Scots who got the heck outta Dodge during the Stuart Wars: many of them wound up in Catholic France or some of the French colonies. But I'm not sure that they came to St. Dominique as indentured servants.

Here's an excerpt from http://www.scotlandspast.com/religion.htm which shows that Christianity was well established in Scotland by the 8th century: the whole site, BTW, is fascinating and well worth a read.

* * * * *

The first named missionary to Scotland is Ninian who is referred to in an aside by Bede while discussing the conversion of the Picts in his Ecclesiastical History of the English People written in 731 AD. In this aside he says 'The southern Picts, who live on this side of the mountains, are said to have abandoned the errors of idolatry long before this date and accepted the true Faith through the preaching of Bishop Ninian, a most reverend and holy man of British race, who had been regularly instructed in the mysteries of the Christian Faith in Rome. Ninian's own Episcopal see, named after Saint Martin and famous for its stately church, is now held by the English, and it is here that his body and those of many saints lie at rest. The place belongs to the province of Bernicia and is commonly known as Candida Casa, the White House, because he built the church of stone, which was unusual among the Britons.' Ninian is also dealt with in Miracula Nyniae Episcopi which also mentions a king called Tudwal, historians have used the above evidence to date Ninian to the 5th century, about the same time as Patrick. There have been many suggestions that Ninian operated much further north than Galloway and dedications to him can be found as far north as Fife and even into Angus. Although the term missionary has been used here it is likely that Christianity of some kind already existed and that Ninian, Columba and the other early saints were not missionaries in the modern sense.

* * * * * *

That being said, there certainly were indentured White servants in Haiti during the earliest days of its colonization. From http://208.154.71.60/bcom/eb/article/6/0,5716,108616+21,00.html

* * * * *

As the English, French, Dutch, and, to a lesser extent, the Danes colonized the smaller West Indian islands, these became plantation settlements, largely cultivated by blacks. Before the latter arrived in great numbers, the bulk of manual labour, especially in the English islands, was performed by poor whites. Some were indentured, or contract, servants; some were redemptioners who agreed to pay ship captains their passage fees within a stated time or be sold to bidders; others were convicts. Some were kidnapped, with the tacit approval of the English authorities, in keeping with the mercantilist policy that advocated getting rid of the unemployed and vagrants. Black slavery eventually surpassed white servitude in the West Indies.

* * * * *

By the time of the Code Noir, there was some effort made to distinguish between Blacks, mulattos, and Whites: I suspect by that time most of the ancestors of the early indentured Whites were considered mulatto at best. Some of the worst buccaneers of the time were headquartered on the Island of Tortuga, an isle populated by creoles, escaped indentured servants, escaped slaves and other "lawless riffraff." So there was definitely mingling of the races and mingling of the cultures.

> During this time, blacks outnumbered whites about 4000 to one. This is a > literal fact.

I was under the impression it was more like 20 to one, but if you could cite some source which says otherwise I'd certainly be open to correction.

> So it is unlikely that those few whites could prevent Africans > from having drum dances - it seems to me more likely that an uneasy truce > obtained, you know, the whites said in effect, "Do your work and I will leave > you alone."

It generally appears that slave owners were, if anything, *hostile* to attempts to convert their slaves. They didn't want to deal with the responsibility of teaching these savages, never mind giving them time off to go to church. While they punished anything which smacked of rebellion with truly horrendous savagery, they of course weren't able to stop every drum dance or religious service.

> At that time the whites most likely to participate in drum dances were of > course the poor whites, not the few French elite whites. And among them, the > most likely people to participate were the women - just the folks most likely > to have preserved the service of Brigid.

This involves a whole bunch of assumptions, some of which may not be true. I think the assumption that the service of Brigid was preserved is a dubious one at best. (I'm also not sure that Brigid was particularly popular in Scotland: I was of the impression that she was more favored in Ireland). And were White women regularly participating in erotically-charged (at least in the popular White imagination of the time) drumming rituals? While the Code Noir allowed intermarriage, there were certainly social taboos against this, particularly against White woman sleeping with Black men.

> (Before I go any further let me suggest that anyone who hasn't read Jayelle's > "White Women in Vodou" do so!)

An excellent and moving piece which describes what Maman Brigitte means to Jayelle and how she has integrated Maman Brigitte into her own life. I have no interest in "debunking" Jayelle's personal mythology, or in "disproving" her belief that her Maman Brigitte is related to the Celtic Brigitte. Jayelle seems like a very nice and very intelligent person: if her service of Brigitte does good things for her, then I wish her well. I can respect the opinions of a devout, sincere Moslem, without believing that the Koran is the direct word of God and that Mohammed is the seal of the prophets.

That being said: I think one of the big problems facing Neopagan theology today is flabby scholarship. "Authorities" pull assertions out of their posteriors without any kind of evidence: other "authorities" then point to these assertions as "proof." I saw a recent claim, for instance, that the "Black Madonna" found throughout Europe is really a survival of Isis and Horus worship. I didn't see any evidence backing that claim up -- just a bald-faced assertion. I could just as easily claim the Black Madonna was a survival of Parvati holding the Infant Krishna, or of the infant Guatama being held by his Mother. I'm sure that I could find a "Mother holding a Child" figure in the art of just about EVERY culture: does that prove that the Black Madonna is a survival of Inuit rule over Europe, or that Europe was once occupied by South Sea Islanders? Speculation is one thing: so long as you clearly say "This is what I believe," or "This is one possible explanation," I'm not inclined to complain. But once you and others start presenting your speculation as Historical Fact, you can run into all kinds of problems.

> Now, the first woman buried in any cemetary is by definition Brigid, and the > first man buried in any cemetary is by definition Baron. Of course when those > drum-dancing poor Scottish women died they were buried in the same earth as > Africans, and the agglomerative, pragmatic nature of Vodou as it developed > would of course naturally incorporate Brigid, and metamorphose her into Maman > Brigitte.

You're assuming a lot here again. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I'd like to see some scholarship regarding the ethnic makeup of indentured servants in Haiti, the interactions between indentured servants and African slaves, and the religious beliefs of indentured White servants in Haiti. As I said before, there certainly were intermarriages and interrelationships between poor Whites (particularly escaped indentured servants) and African slaves. And if you can point me in the direction of evidence that Brigid-worship survived in Scotland as late as the 17th century, I would be greatly appreciative.

Peace Kevin Filan

-- Now in the graveyard of my secrets there's a hope buried beneath All this talk of peace and righteousness as left me weary beyond belief And there's this unwanted mistress in my bed late at night She says "I know you're a criminal -- you been on death row all your life."

- Bill Mallonee

Racine125

Jun 17, 2001, 4:34:43 PM

In article <[email protected]>, Kevin Filan

<[email protected]> writes:

>..the first African slaves in the New World arrived in Hispaniola >in 1501... and the first slave rebellion in Hispaniola was in 1522....

I don't mean that Scottish deportees were in Haiti from the beginning of the slave trade! The Stuart wars took place later, in the mid-1700's, which is in plenty of time to contribute to the formation of the contemporary Vodou religion. Not only that, but Scottish people were being deported to the West Indies including Haiti long before the Stuart wars - that is where all those Jamaicans get names like Fitzwilliam and Fitzroy, and that is why there are Haitians named Bailly.

> I certainly doubt VERY strongly that there were any Scotsmen >of that time, no matter how isolated a little town they came from, who >would have considered themselves "Brigid worshippers."

Oh, I don't doubt it for a moment, I bet Scots*women* kept Brigid alive in their hearts - that is no different from the modern Haitians in the north of Haiti who are hereditary Muslims! Documents written by Christians claiming that the "Picts are Christianized" mean as much to me as modern documents written by Christians in Haiti claiming that the majority of Haitians have renounced Vodou.

The population statistics I quoted are from historical documents of the time, it's on the 'Net in a few places, I will look and see if I can find them again.

There is no doubt that Brigitte is a manifestation of Brigid, although we may go rooting around a bit to decide exactly how and when. Like Bob Marley said, "Half the story has never been told."

Kevin Filan

Jun 18, 2001, 11:58:10 PM

In article <[email protected]>, Racine125 says...

>In article <[email protected]>, Kevin Filan

><[email protected]> writes:

>>..the first African slaves in the New World arrived in Hispaniola

>>in 1501... and the first slave rebellion in Hispaniola was in 1522....

>I don't mean that Scottish deportees were in Haiti from the

>beginning of the slave trade! The Stuart wars took place later,

>in the mid-1700's, which is in plenty of time to contribute to

>the formation of the contemporary Vodou religion. Not only

>that, but Scottish people were being deported to the West

>Indies including Haiti long before the Stuart wars - that is where

>all those Jamaicans get names like Fitzwilliam and Fitzroy, and

>that is why there are Haitians named Bailly.

I don't think you were seeing a lot of indentured servitude in St. Dominique by the 1750s. At that stage in the game they were mostly using the "labor camp" model: buy slaves, work them to death, repeat as necessary. For the most part the farms were divided into massive plantations where indentured servants would be working as overseers at best. It's highly unlikely that any overseers were hanging out at African drum dances ... in fact, I'd say the overseers would have been among the first killed when the rebellion started.

I think a more promising approach might be to compare some of the folk beliefs of the early French settlers, particularly any settlers from the Breton area, and compare them with the beliefs and rituals found in Haiti today around Maman Brigitte. For that I'd look no later than the early 18th century, before the Code Noir and before the disenfranchisement of the Mulattos. At that period you would have had a prosperous Creole culture where you might have seen that kind of interaction between Whites and Blacks and their belief systems. Later you get much more a "state of siege" and an effort to keep the systems separate. (You can still see the psychological effects of this among Haiti's mulatto elite). And then, during and after the Revolution, the Whites who weren't killed out got the heck out of Dodge: after that time there wasn't enough of a white presence, IMO, to have that kind of an impact on the development of Vodou.

I just picked up W.Y. Evans-Wentz's 1911 book *The Fairy-Faith in Celtic Countries.* While he engages in a fair bit of psychical and theosophical speculation, he also did a goodly amount of field work in the British Isles and in Breton. He was also a disciple of the great American philosopher William James: I can definitely see the influence of *Varieties of Religious Experience* in the preconceptions he brings to the table when compiling his data. From what I've read so far, the book is fascinating and thought-provoking, although you may want to keep a salt shaker handy when reading.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/ffcc/ has an online edition of this book.

One thing I've noted is that Bretons strongly identify the Fae folk with the spirits of the dead, arguably more so than other Celtic peoples. If this is true (and, again, I've not done the research to verify all of Evans-Wentz's claims), then it might be an explanation of how a goddess frequently assoicated with the Fairy Kingdom became the Queen of the Dead.

When are Maman Brigitte and the Baron first mentioned in print? I know that the scholarship on Vodou is woefully thin, but in present day Vodou these are two of the most popular and well-known Lwa. If we could get some idea as to how long Brigitte has been served, perhaps we'd get some better clue as to her origins.

>> I certainly doubt VERY strongly that there were any Scotsmen >>of that time, no matter how isolated a little town they came from, who >>would have considered themselves "Brigid worshippers." > >Oh, I don't doubt it for a moment, I bet Scots*women* kept >Brigid alive in their hearts - that is no different from the modern >Haitians in the north of Haiti who are hereditary Muslims!

The broker who got us our apartment was a Lebanese Haitian: I've gathered there is also a Syrian population in Haiti as well. Are these the Muslims of whom you speak?

I would expect that most of the peasants from France, Scotland, England and Ireland would have considered themselves Catholics. They might pay homage to "saints" like Brigid in ways which reflected the pre-Christian worship of Brigid... but they would likely consider this Catholic. While I am open to the possibility -- and would love to see it, actually -- I have not yet seen any evidence of widespread survival of pre-Christian religion in Europe, particularly a pre-Christian survival which recognized itself as such. I suspect the situation resembled African-American Hoodoo: lots of bits and pieces from an earlier structure, but lacking major amounts of the underlying philosophy of that structure and incorporating many Christian ideas.

>Documents written by Christians claiming that the "Picts are >Christianized" mean as much to me as modern documents >written by Christians in Haiti claiming that the majority of >Haitians have renounced Vodou.

What those documents prove is that there was a pretty established Christian community in Scotland as early as the 8th century. It doesn't prove that the pre-Christian customs had died out entirely ... indeed, if Evans-Wentz's field research was at all accurate, many of them survived as late as the 19th and early 20th century. What it means is that we can expect these pre-Christian myths to have incorporated a good deal of Christian mythology by the time St. Dominique was being colonized.

>The population statistics I quoted are from historical documents >of the time, it's on the 'Net in a few places, I will look and see >if I can find them again. > >There is no doubt that Brigitte is a manifestation of Brigid, although >we may go rooting around a bit to decide exactly how and when. >Like Bob Marley said, "Half the story has never been told."

I'm not saying that you're wrong here, although I think you may be pointing a bit in the wrong direction. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about why Maman Brigitte "comes from England" and for how long this identification has been made. Do you know any other Maman Brigitte songs? Looking at those lyrics might help to uncover other clues as to Brigitte's origin.

I know we have a few people on here with some knowledge of Celtic culture and mythology. Any recommendations for good books on the subject which avoid the Standard Newage Pitfalls?

>Peace and love, > >Bon Mambo Racine Sans Bout Sa Te La Daginen > >"Se bon ki ra" - Good is rare > Haitian Proverb > >The VODOU Page - http://members.aol.com/racine125/index.html

Peace Kevin Filan

"My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of

saying expect in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother,

drunk or sober." - G.K. Chesterton

Other

Jun 19, 2001, 6:05:57 AM

<snip>

> There is no doubt that Brigitte is a manifestation of Brigid, although

> we may go rooting around a bit to decide exactly how and when.

> Like Bob Marley said, "Half the story has never been told."

Don't forget that there is a Catholic Saint, St. Bridget who is clearly a

Christianized version of the Goddess Brigid.

-- Troy

"Self, I could do bad pencil drawings of Mr. Spock!"-Robin Wood

Racine125

Jun 19, 2001, 9:16:10 AM

In article <[email protected]>, Kevin

Filan<[email protected]> writes:

>I don't think you were seeing a lot of indentured servitude in St. Dominique >by >the 1750s. At that stage in the game they were mostly using the "labor camp" >model: buy slaves, work them to death, repeat as necessary.

They who? Think again, Kevin - wealthy French plantation owners did not soil their shoes going down to the cane fields or the indigo patch or whatever. That work was done by poor whites and some "trusted blacks" usually Kongo men because they were considered by whites the most likely to betray their own people.

>It's highly unlikely that any overseers >were >hanging out at African drum dances ...

To the contrary - where else would they hang out? The fancy whites wouldn't have anything to do with them. I want to stress again and again the incredibly high numerical disparity between blacks and whites, it wasn't like the USA, whites were few and far between, and they had to have an "understanding" with blacks who outnumbered them vastly (By the way the source of that population data is online somewhere and I will keep trying to find it and give it to you). And also remember that the most likely participants were the women! These were not refined, constrained Frenchwomen, these were rough, lower class independant Celtic women accustomed to taking responsibility for themselves. Now, faced with a choice between some boring white guy and some big handsome Ashanti or Ibo, I know who I would rather hang out with! LOL!

> in fact, I'd say the overseers would >have >been among the first killed when the rebellion started.

No, that came later - in the beginning there were groups of blacks who protected whites whom they felt had done their best to protect blacks, sometimes even to the point of battling for them, getting them out of the country... it was Dessalines who brought on that mentality that led to pregnant white women being split open and their fetuses pulled out for the purposes of general amusement, that kind of thing. In fact at one point he promised a large group of white women and children safe passage back to France, and then when they assembled, he had his men cut them to pieces with swords because he "wouldn't waste the bullets".

>I think a more promising approach might be to compare some of the folk >beliefs >of the early French settlers, particularly any settlers from the Breton area, >and compare them with the beliefs and rituals found in Haiti today around >Maman >Brigitte.

That might have been a part of it too! But you know, the Vodou song which refers to the geographical origins of Maman Brigitte says that "Maman Brigitte, li soti nan anglete", anglete being properly "England" but by extension the British Isles.

>One thing I've noted is that Bretons strongly identify the Fae folk with the >spirits of the dead, arguably more so than other Celtic peoples. If this is >true (and, again, I've not done the research to verify all of Evans-Wentz's >claims), then it might be an explanation of how a goddess frequently >assoicated >with the Fairy Kingdom became the Queen of the Dead.

Brigid was identified with the dead in her own country, and with healing and smithcraft too.

>>Oh, I don't doubt it for a moment, I bet Scots*women* kept >>Brigid alive in their hearts - that is no different from the modern >>Haitians in the north of Haiti who are hereditary Muslims! > >The broker who got us our apartment was a Lebanese Haitian: I've gathered >there >is also a Syrian population in Haiti as well. Are these the Muslims of whom >you >speak?

No, I am talking about black people in the north of Haiti whose ancestors were Muslims when they came over from Africa. Their contemporary descendants remain Muslims until present, and the anthropologists are having a field day with them! LOL!

>>Documents written by Christians claiming that the "Picts are >>Christianized" mean as much to me as modern documents >>written by Christians in Haiti claiming that the majority of >>Haitians have renounced Vodou. > >What those documents prove is that there was a pretty established Christian >community in Scotland as early as the 8th century. It doesn't prove that the >pre-Christian customs had died out entirely ... indeed, if Evans-Wentz's >field >research was at all accurate, many of them survived as late as the 19th and >early 20th century.

So there.

>I'm not saying that you're wrong here, although I think you may be pointing a >bit in the wrong direction. I'm definitely interested in hearing more about >why >Maman Brigitte "comes from England" and for how long this identification has >been made. Do you know any other Maman Brigitte songs? Looking at those >lyrics >might help to uncover other clues as to Brigitte's origin.

Of course I know more songs for Maman Brigitte, but none of them say anything about her origin.

Kathy Latzoni

Jun 19, 2001, 10:10:50 AM

In article <[email protected]>, Racine125 says...

>In article <[email protected]>, Kevin

>Filan<[email protected]> writes:

>>I don't think you were seeing a lot of indentured servitude in St. Dominique

>>by

>>the 1750s. At that stage in the game they were mostly using the "labor camp"

>>model: buy slaves, work them to death, repeat as necessary.

>They who? Think again, Kevin - wealthy French plantation owners

>did not soil their shoes going down to the cane fields or the indigo

>patch or whatever. That work was done by poor whites and some

>"trusted blacks" usually Kongo men because they were considered

>by whites the most likely to betray their own people.

Hmm. Why were the Kongo [as opposed to Africans of other origins] considered the "most likely to betray their own people"? <:/

I'd be interested in seeing your sources for this information...

>Brigid was identified with the dead in her own country, and with healing >and smithcraft too. >

In my own [somewhat casual] studies of Brigid, I have heard her identified with all of these things as well -- but again, this has mostly come from pagan or women's-spirituality books and websites, which often don't give many academic citations, or statistics, to back up the assertions they make. [Yes, I'm familiar with the quote about "lies, damned lies and statistics" ;) ... but that would at least provide some primary research for us to evaluate.]

Your own reading has probably been more extensive than mine: are you able to give us some more "hard facts" to support these conclusions here?

Racine125

Jun 19, 2001, 11:31:52 AM

In article <[email protected]>, Kathy

Latzoni<[email protected]> writes:

>Hmm. Why were the Kongo [as opposed to Africans of other origins] considered >the >"most likely to betray their own people"? <:/ > >I'd be interested in seeing your sources for this information...

Oh dear, another bibliography search, huh? There are actually quite a few references to the "execrable Congos" and how other ethnic groups scorned them because they would sell out incipient rebellions, all sorts of stuff.

There are echoes of this kind of thing in current Haitian parlance too - for instance "owsa" (Hausa) means "pickpocket", and apparently Hausas had a reputation for being lightfingered in Africa as well.

I am getting on the plane very shortly and won't be able to look it up for you but the references abound, it won't be hard for you to find.

#commentary #maman brigitte (hazbin hotel)#there’s little evidence for this so I leave it out of the main body: In Voodoo: An African American Religion (2024) Anderson briefly notes #that the ‘Mama You’ of New Orleans Voodoo might be Maman Brigitte. emphasis on 'might'. there’s so little record of ‘Mama You’ it’s hard to #say and probably wrong but it would be interesting if it was true...#To my knowledge the earliest recorded list of the lwa can be found #in Duverneau Trouillot’s (1885) Esquisse ethnographique: le vaudoun #Another useful text might be Benjamin Hebblethwaite’s (2021) A Transatlantic History of Haitian Vodou #I don’t have access to either text but they could pertain to the history and origins of Maman Brigitte (Grann Brijitte)

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