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mssishipi · 2 months ago

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devil in disguise — sjy

— anon asked: infidelity with jake would go crazy bro like he’d be saying “you’re so disgusting” and it’s true it disgusts him how his bestfriend’s pussy milks his cock

warning: cheating, jake is an asshole, explicit content (smut): unprotected sex, degradation. MDNI.

It was almost laughable—how you always clung to Jake's side, no matter what he did, no matter how much trouble he got himself into. It was as if loyalty blinded you, shielding you from the truth everyone else could see so clearly.

You were an angel, the one his parents adored, the soft-hearted girl who couldn't even bring herself to harm a fly.

Polite, gentle, the kind of person who would apologize even when someone else stepped on your foot.

It was hilarious how you always had an excuse for him, always a justification on the tip of your tongue every time he do something.

Like that time when he got into a fight because of some fraternity nonsense. His parents had been furious.

And yet, there you were, standing in front of them, your eyes wide, your voice trembling with conviction.

"Jake defended me!"

Except that was a lie.

Jake hadn't been defending you. He don't care. The guy had simply pissed him off. He always did. It had nothing to do with you, but you refused to see that. Maybe it was easier that way—to pretend Jake had some noble reason, that his fists weren't just another weapon he wielded whenever he felt like it.

It was almost amusing—the way you always listened to him, how you followed him around ever since the two of you were kids.

You were the kind of best friend who never strayed too far, always orbiting around him, always there. He wasn't sure if he should find it endearing or just plain irritating. Maybe a bit of both.

He could do the most questionable things, and without fail, you'd always have his back.

"Thank you, Jaeyun-ah! You know I don't like Jungwon—he's always ranked first. He deserves to be caught cheating."

You grinned at him, clutching your notebook to your chest as if he had done you some great favor. But Jake hadn't done it for you. He hadn't even thought of you when he slipped that answer key into Jungwon's bag. He was just bored, looking for something to break the monotony. Watching the teachers drag Jungwon to the disciplinary office had simply been an added bonus.

"It's okay, Jaeyun-ah! What you're feeling is valid. I'm sure Yuta deserved that punch—he's a creep."

You had been so quick to reassure him. But Yuta wasn't a creep. Jake had made that up on a whim, an excuse to put the guy in his place, to see him crumble. Because he was bored.

It was almost amusing—how you, of all people, always knew the difference between right and wrong. You were kind, the type to preach fairness, to stand up for what was just.

And yet, when it came to him, all of that fell apart. You always had an excuse, always a justification ready on your lips, as if his actions existed outside the rules that applied to everyone else.

Sim Jaeyun had you wrapped around his finger so effortlessly, it was pathetic.

And honestly, it was disgusting.

"Jaeyun-ah!" you squealed, your voice breaking into a moan as your fingers dug into his back, clinging to him. Your breath hitching as he hit that spot over and over again.

The room was dimly lit, the air thick with the scent of sweat and sex. His phone buzzed relentlessly on the bedside table, the screen flashing with his girlfriend's name. Over and over, the call came, the shrill ring cutting through the muffled sound of skin slapping against skin. But neither of you moved. Neither of you cared.

It was disgusting—how easily you spread your legs for him, how willingly you became his escape whenever she couldn't satisfy him. You never hesitated, never even flinched when he came to you, already knowing what he wanted.

He still loved his girlfriend. With everything he had. But she could never give him the kind of mind-numbing, toe-curling release that you did.

"It's in a man's nature, Jaeyun-ah," you had whispered to him once, your fingers lazily tracing patterns over his bare chest, your body still warm from the aftermath of what you had just done. Your voice always had been soft and sweet. "Men have needs. It's only natural to seek satisfaction elsewhere when she can't give you what you want."

Jake remembered those words vividly, the way you had said them with such certainty, as if you truly believed them. As if your presence in his bed, tangled in his sheets, was anything but a betrayal.

"Maybe it's even her fault," you had added, tilting your head to look at him through heavy-lidded eyes. "She should know better. She should do better. If she really loved you, wouldn't she try harder to make you happy?"

Your justifications were always so effortless, so convincing. You never made him feel guilty, never accused him of being selfish or cruel. Instead, you framed it like you were the only one who truly understood him, the only one who could give him what he needed without judgment.

It was painfully obvious that you were in love with him.

And it disgusted him.

Every longing glance, every adoring smile, every saccharine word that spilled from your lips—it all made his skin crawl.

Yet, despite the repulsion twisting in his gut, he kept coming back. Again and again. Because at the end of the day, you were the only one who truly understood him. The only one who never judged, never asked for more than he was willing to give.

"I said don't give me marks!" Jake growled as he grabbed your wrists, prying your hands off his back where your nails had been sinking into his skin.

Without giving you a chance to react, he shoved you down, caging you beneath him. His arms wrapped tightly around your shoulders, trapping your limbs against your sides as his weight pressed into you. His knees planted firmly on either side of your thighs, bracing himself as he drove deeper, making you take every inch of him.

The bed creaked beneath you, the room filled with the sound of skin meeting skin, your ragged breaths mixing with his.

And despite the way he loathed the way you looked at him, despite how much your affection disgusted him—he still couldn't stop.

"You love fucking like this?" Jake growled into your ear, his breath hot against your skin as he drove into you with unrelenting force.

"Yes! Fuck, I love your cock inside me, Jaeyun-ah! Fuck me harder!" you sobbed, your voice breaking with each thrust. Your mind was drowning in the pleasure he ruthlessly forced upon you.

Jake exhaled sharply, his breath ragged as he buried his face in the crook of your neck.

His arms tightened around you, locking you in place beneath him. He didn't give you a second to breathe, because your body was nothing more than a means to chase his own satisfaction.

Jake groaned as he felt you clench around him, your walls tightening, desperately trying to keep him buried deep. The way your body surrendered so easily, so pathetically. It was hilarious, how little self-control you had when it came to him.

"You fucking disgust me," he sneered. His thrusts never slowed as he tilted his head slightly, watching the way your face twisted in pleasure, eyes glazed over, lips parted as broken moans spilled from your throat.

"Getting off on your best friend’s cock? That’s just pathetic."

You shook your head wildly, fingers clawing at his back, legs trembling around his waist. "I don’t care!" you gasped, "just want you, Jaeyun-ah! Just want your cock—please!"

Jake let out a breathy chuckle, "Of course, you don’t," he muttered. His teeth grazed your shoulder before he bit down, hard, marking you. Your body jerked beneath him, a sharp whimper escaping your lips as he tightened his grip on your waist, pressing you impossibly closer, molding you against him like you were made to take him.

Your tongue traced the ridges of his collarbone, wet and hot, leaving a trail of saliva as if you wanted to claim him just as much. Jake hissed, his muscles tensing beneath your touch, his pace turning brutal. His name tore from your lips in screams, your body writhing, thrashing, but his arms locked around you, keeping you exactly where he wanted.

And then, without warning, your orgasm crashed over you—sudden, violent, leaving you gasping, eyes rolling back as your body went rigid beneath him. No slow build-up, no warning. Just raw, overwhelming pleasure that left you completely undone.

As the aftershocks of your orgasm pulsed through you, leaving your body trembling beneath him, Jake didn’t slow. If anything, he fucked you through it, dragging out every last bit of your high until you were left whimpering, overstimulated, body twitching against his pace.

"Look at you," he scoffed as he watched your fucked-out expression. "Completely ruined over your best friend’s cock. What would your parents think if they saw you like this?"

Your lips parted, but only breathless moans escaped.

Jake chuckled darkly, his pace faltering just long enough for him to grab your chin, forcing your dazed eyes to meet his. "And what about my girlfriend?" he mused, tilting his head as if genuinely curious. "She has no idea you’re spreading your legs for me every time she turns her back. That you’re nothing but a cheap fuck whenever she can’t satisfy me."

For a split second, he saw that pathetic flicker of sadness in your gaze. But Jake didn’t care.

Because he knew you. Knew the way you worked. No matter how much he degraded you, no matter how cruel his words got, you would always come crawling back. Always.

Because that’s who you were.

Jake pulled out abruptly, leaving you gasping at the sudden emptiness. His hands were rough, impatient, as he flipped you over, manhandling you into the position he wanted. You barely had a moment to react before he shoved your face down against the mattress, pressing hard against the back of your neck, keeping you in place.

"Stay still," he muttered, his other hand gripping your hip, lifting your ass high in the air.

You barely had time to process the shift before the sharp buzz of his phone filled the room again, the sound coming from the bedside table. His jaw ticked in irritation, but he didn’t reach for it. Instead, he lined himself up with your entrance, cursing under his breath.

Then, without warning, he thrust back inside.

Another scream tore from your lips, your fingers scrambling against the sheets, trying to ground yourself as the force of his movements sent shocks of pleasure and pain coursing through you. Your walls fluttered around him instinctively, struggling to adjust to the new angle, but he didn’t slow down.

"Tighten up," Jake growled. "Feels like I’m just fucking my fist."

You clenched around him immediately, an attempt to please him, but the effort only made your body tremble harder. Your vision blurred as fresh tears welled in your eyes, spilling down your cheeks, soaking into the sheets beneath you.

Jake noticed. His fingers tangled into your hair, yanking your head up, forcing you to look at him. Your eyes were glassy, lips trembling, breath coming in short, shaky gasps.

"Aww," Jake cooed mockingly, tilting his head as his grip on your hair tightened. His fingers twisted cruelly in the strands, yanking your head back until your neck arched, forcing your tear-streaked face into view. "Is my sweet angel hurt?"

You sniffled, trying to steady your breath, but the way he kept thrusting into you made it impossible to think, let alone speak. Your fingers dug into the sheets, knuckles turning white as your body rocked in time with his brutal pace.

And then you smiled—soft, sweet, broken. The kind of expression you knew would make something dark flicker in his eyes.

"I don't care, Jaeyun-ah," you whispered, your gaze met his, unwavering despite the tears threatening to spill. "That's my purpose, right?"

His reaction was instant. A low growl rumbled in his chest, and without hesitation, he shoved you back down, pressing your face into the mattress. The force knocked the air from your lungs, but you still moaned.

Jake cursed under his breath, his grip on your hips tightening as his thrusts turned erratic. You could feel it—the way his cock twitched inside you, the way his breath grew uneven, muscles tensing. He was close.

"Fuck, I trained my angel so well," he grunted, punctuating his words with a harsh slap to your ass. The impact stung, a sharp burst of pain that made you whimper. His moans were growing louder, more desperate, the telltale signs of his impending climax.

"That's right, Jake!" you cried out, voice breaking. "Make yourself cum in me—your fucking boring girlfriend could never!"

The second those words left your lips, his hand shot forward, slapping over your mouth and muffling your moans.

"Shut the fuck up," Jake growled. His other hand dug into your hip, his grip so tight you knew there’d be bruises tomorrow. "You don’t get to talk about her. Don’t fucking ruin my orgasm by running that filthy mouth of yours."

A sharp, burning twist coiled in your chest at his words. But at the same time, the thick drag of his cock against your cervix make your walls clamped down around him, squeezing so tight it forced a strangled moan from his throat.

"Fuck—" Jake groaned, his head falling forward against your back, breath ragged, body tensed as his thrusts turned erratic. His fingers dug into your hips, keeping you locked in place as he chased his release. "I'm gonna cum, angel."

A strangled sound tore from his throat, his grip bruising as he drove himself deep one last time. And then, with a low, guttural moan, he spilled inside you.

The heat of it, the way he pulsed and twitched against your walls, sent you spiraling instantly. Your orgasm hit violent, all-consuming, crashing through you with no mercy. Euphoria flooded every nerve, burning through your veins, leaving you boneless beneath him.

You gasped, lips parted in a silent cry, your body convulsing around him as wave after wave of pleasure wracked through you. It felt endless, like falling through space with no ground to catch you, no way to stop.

Jake groaned again, feeling the way your walls fluttered and clenched around him, milking every last drop from his spent cock. He twitched, giving a few more lazy thrusts, fucking his cum deeper into you, pushing past the oversensitivity that made your thighs shake and your breath stutter.

Slowly, his pace lost momentum, his thrusts turning shallow, sluggish, until finally, he stilled. His weight pressed against you as he exhaled heavily, letting the last remnants of pleasure fade into exhaustion.

The room was filled with nothing but the sound of your ragged breaths, the sweat cooling on your flushed skin, the lingering heat of what you’d just done.

And then, as the high began to ebb, as the last shocks of pleasure melted into nothingness, the emptiness settled in.

A hollow ache replaced the euphoria, leaving you nothing more than a trembling, used mess sprawled out beneath him.

Jake let out a slow, heavy breath as he ran a hand through his sweat-dampened hair, his body still humming with the remnants of release. The warmth of you still clung to his skin, but he didn’t spare you a glance as he pulled out, leaving a mess between your trembling thighs.

Grabbing his phone from your bedside table, he stared at the screen, scrolled through the flood of missed calls and unread messages. The screen illuminated his face, jaw tightening slightly before he sighed, thumbs moving quickly to type a response.

Your gaze followed him, watching as he moved around the room without hesitation. He didn’t look at you—not even once—as he grabbed his discarded clothes from the floor, slipping his jeans back on, adjusting his belt with the ease of someone who had done this a hundred times before.

The scent of sex still clung to his skin, and he knew it. Without pause, he reached for the bottle of cologne he always carried, spritzing it over himself, masking the evidence of what had just happened between you.

You were still sprawled out on the bed, your chest pressed against the damp sheets, your body aching, marked, used.

"I gotta get home before she starts getting suspicious," Jake muttered, slinging his bag over his shoulder.

But before leaving, he paused at the door, casting a dark stare over his shoulder. His expression hardened, his voice colder.

"Shut your mouth. You already know that, don’t you?"

You swallowed thickly, throat tightening as you forced a small, obedient "Yes."

For a moment, there was nothing. Just silence stretching between the two of you, thick and suffocating. Then, as if flipping a switch, Jake’s entire demeanor shifted. A slow, sickeningly sweet smile spread across his lips as he turned back toward you.

Walking over, he crouched slightly to meet your tired gaze, brushing a few damp strands of hair from your face before pressing a lingering kiss to your forehead. The gesture was soft—mockingly so.

"See you next time, angel. Don’t do something stupid, hmm?" His voice was gentle, almost affectionate, like he actually cared.

And like the fool you were, you smiled at him, nodding eagerly despite the rawness in your throat, despite the soreness in your body.

Jake exhaled a quiet chuckle, tilting his head as he watched you. "My good girl."

Leaning in once more, he pecked your lips, his touch featherlight, almost tender. But beneath it, there was nothing. No warmth, no real emotion. Just obligation.

It was a role he played, a meaningless act that kept you tethered to him. And seeing you smile so sweetly, so utterly oblivious—it made his stomach twist with something akin to revulsion.

As the door clicked shut behind him, Jake let out a slow, irritated breath, rolling his shoulders as if shaking off something unpleasant.

Without sparing a second thought, he pulled out his phone, thumbs scrolling through his girlfriend’s messages.

You had always stood by Sim Jaeyun’s side—through every mistake, every decision, every selfish impulse. You defended him when no one else would, gave him everything without hesitation. It didn’t matter what he did; you always understood, always forgave, always stayed.

Your fingers curled into the sheets, nails digging so deep into the fabric they nearly tore through it. Your chest rose and fell in uneven breaths.

You stared at the door he had just walked out of, the one he never even bothered to look back at.

You let a quiet breathy laugh—before it bubbled up into hysterical and unhinged. Tears streamed freely down your face.

"His angel, my ass."

The words dripped from your tongue. a wicked little smile curling on your lips.

You had always been there for him. Always the loyal one. Always the perfect, obedient little toy he could use and toss aside when it was convenient. You had let him take and take and take.

Your gaze flickered to the ceiling, to the tiny red light blinking faintly in the dark.

You were his angel, after all. His good girl. So predictable, so harmless.

How cute.

You tilted your head as your nails dragged lazily across your own thigh, smearing the mess he left behind.

You almost felt bad for him.

Because, Sim Jaeyun did not, in fact, train his angel well.

#enhypen #enhypen smut #jake x reader #jake smut #enhypen hard hours #sim jaeyun

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nonotnolan · 1 month ago

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Swap Caste

People often ask me if ever resented being born into the Swap Caste, but honestly… when you grow up around it, you just sort of internalize it as a normal part of life. Growing up, I’ve always known that my body is not my own. I’m taking care of this body for its eventual owner. The better I care for this body, the more money I will get in exchange when it is sold. Sure, sometimes I daydream about what it might be like to have been born into the Ruling Caste— who doesn’t daydream about a perfect future? But even at an early age, I knew better than to go down any sort of self-defeating or destructive trains of thought. Nothing would change except for maybe my body depreciating in value. Maybe after someone buys this body, then I’ll have time to be an activist.

I always get a bit hard when I look at myself. Why wouldn’t I? I look damn good, and I know it! Today, though, today is a potential sale, so my nerves are through the roof. I put myself on market last week, and when I got this body appraised it came out to 32.7 million dollars. Far from an all-time record, but the average sale price is only 14.2 million, and this is currently the eight most expensive body on the market right now. It feels good to have all of the hard work I put into this body validated, but every potential sale still makes me question if it was all worth it.

Will they think my face is worth the price? Is it too masculine? Is it too youthful? Will they be scared away by amount of upkeep these muscles would take? Post-exchange investment depreciation is a huge risk for buyers, so a lot of men who are looking to buy a new body intentionally avoid the more expensive options.

Which, that’s the other part of the equation— whoever buys my body will give their body up to me. Society expects people to be close to my age when they buy a new body, but people are starting to wait until their 30s or 40s to buy a new body. How many years of my life am I going to lose? What sort of health conditions am I going to inherit? How many pounds am I going to have to lose in order to get back down to a healthy weight? As a member of the Swap Caste, I don't have any say into the answers to those questions. I'm expected to live the rest of my life in their discarded body regardless of the complications.

Plus, today’s buyer is rumored to be… pretty weird. My buddy Vince, he’s the number twelve body on the market, he told me that there’s a real eccentric businessman going around shopping the market. He started at the most expensive, and apparently he’s working his way down the list in market order. He arranges in-person visits, and then leaves after five minutes. No one knows what he's looking for-- usually people with enough money to afford the best just buy the most expensive body they can. And while all buyers have the opportunity to see the body in person, most people just choose from the portfolio photos they make us take.

My reverie is interrupted by the sound of the doorbell. I open the door to my flat to invite him in. Seeing him standing in the doorway takes my breath away. I'm not surprised to see him wearing clothing that costs more than my monthly stipend, but am I surprised to see that his skin is well cared for. Usually people in his Caste don't bother to take care of themselves because they know they'll be buying a new body once they enter adulthood. I wasn't expecting him to be so young or so handsome, and I certainly wasn't expecting him to be physically fit.

"Sorry, where are my manners?" I say, realizing with a jolt that I've just been staring slack-jawed at the man. "My name is Ashton. Please, come on in. Let me know what I can do to help you see the merchandise in action."

He smirks at me, and my heart flutters a bit. I hope he likes what he sees. "Charmed," he says, following me inside. "You can call me Kamil. I'll start by feeling up your muscles, if you don't mind." He starts to pace around me, drinking in every aspect of my physique as he occasionally runs his fingers down my back or across my nipples.

The sexual tension is unreal. Will it bother him if he notices that I'm a gay man? We're not required to disclose it-- sexuality is in the mind, not the body. Besides, no one in the Swap Caste has sex before the sale. Keeping your body's virginity intact for the buyer is the easiest $100,000 you'll ever make. Or, I thought it was, until the most attractive buyer I've ever seen decided to see my wares in person. God, imagine if I got to claim that ass while showing Kamil how impressive his new cock would be. Shit, I was sprouting a raging hard-on in front of this guy! "I see you are interested in my muscles! Please, let me show them off for you," I blurt out, hoping to distract attention from the tent in my sweatpants.

He smiles at me. "There's no need for that. Believe me, I already like what I see. But before we proceed with the sale, I want to explain what else I'm looking for out of this arrangement. It's... why I wanted to meet with you in person. I would be paying extra to put a 10 year rider onto the contract. Officially, you will be employed as my personal trainer so that I can keep my new purchase in top condition. Unofficially... I would take you as my lover."

I can hardly believe what I'm hearing. "I... your lover? But I'm just part of the lowly Swap Caste!" At any moment, I'm expecting someone to burst through the doors and tell me this is a prank. "You're one of the highest tiers of Business Caste, our kind doesn't... this sort of thing just isn't done!"

"Well, that's true," he says, placing his hand on my shoulder. "I'm supposed to marry a woman from a comparable Caste and have 1-3 children to carry on my social standing. The thing is, I'm a gay man. So if I'm going to defy social norms just by existing, I may as well go all-in on defying cultural expectations. I'm not just looking for a new body, I'm looking for another gay man to call my own. We can look into harem arrangements if you don't want to have a relationship with me, but... well, that's my offer."

My heart is hammering in my chest, and I'm pretty sure my cock is starting to leak through the grey sweatpants that I'm wearing. Everything about his shopping behavior makes sense now that I know his secret. I can't blame the other guys for turning him down-- maybe he didn't even make them an offer if he could tell they were straight-- but this offer is beyond my wildest dreams. "I accept. I'll do it, yes. A thousand times yes!"

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"Good morning, love. If you're here to make sure I squeeze in my morning workout, I'll do it after I finish steaming my clothes for the week. I have to make sure I'm looking good for my man." I couldn't help but roll my eyes as he smiled at me. I had never even heard of a clothes press before he purchased my body, but he insisted that it produced better results than an iron. Personally, the only difference I noticed was the cost of the two items, but I was finding that to be true with a lot of the home appliances he took for granted. It took me three weeks to figure out how to use his all-in-one barista monstrosity just to make a simple cup of coffee, and it tasted the same to me.

I still couldn't believe this was my new life. Just being hired as residential staff to someone in the Business Caste was an incredible opportunity for someone in my place. The fact that Kamil treated me as an equal? It was an unthinkable decision, and even some of the activist circles we were in thought it was a step too far. It was the scandal of the neighborhood, and we relished every moment of that notoriety.

"Don't think I'm letting you get off easy this morning," I said, crossing my arms. "Today is Saturday, you're doing a full length workout. You already skipped last Wednesday for a work meeting. If you start falling out of the habit, it's going to be a bitch to start up again."

Kamil let out a dramatic sigh. "If I had known you were going to be such a ruthless personal trainer, I would have hired someone else. You know Robert only has to work out three times a week?"

I couldn't help but laugh at that one. "Your friend Robert, the guy with 20 pounds of beer gut that he's trying to pass off as a dad bod? The one who I thought hadn't purchased his Caste Body yet? Yeah, I think his results speak for themselves."

"Harsh, but fair," he said, laughing with me. "How about we make a deal?" Kamil stepped close to me, rubbing his hand along the hem of my bathrobe. "I'll do a full length workout, but we start the morning off with some bedroom cardio." He squeezed my ass for emphasis before retreating to our bedroom. He didn't even turn around to see if I was following him. I was, of course-- I had an intimate knowledge of just exactly how much his body was packing, and he knew all of the tricks that would make my body feel good.

People still ask me if I resent being born into the Swap Caste, knowing what I now know about all of the pleasures and luxuries available to the higher classes. I just smile and shake my head no. It's what lead me to my Kamil, and I wouldn't change it for the world.

#male body swap #gay body swap #casual body swap #queer romance #swap caste #after the swap #muscle for pay

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genderqueerdykes · 5 months ago

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In a weird way, it feels like this is the only blog I can ask this and know that I'll get a 100% honest answer to my question, without having to worry about reading subtext. (Thank you for that) you've mentioned you don't want man hating lesbians here (valid) and if that applies here I'll back off 100% but like.

What if I specifically hate Cishet men. What if I don't take issue with queer men at all, just the cishets? Geunine question, just in case, because I know this could read as like trolling or something, and I do understand that basic language dictates yes it'd apply but I'm stupid & not sure, and I know that even if it's a harsh or brutal reply, you'll still give it to me straight. (Thank you for that too, my autistic ass struggles with subtext a lot.)

While I have reasons for feeling the way I do, I'm not sure they matter in this context. And that's okay.

i'm glad that you want to have a genuine conversation about it, i really appreciate that! the only way to learn and figure things out is to ask questions

at the end of the day, this behavior still affects queer men. cishet men can be queer- they can be intersex, aromantic, asexual, genderqueer, gender non conforming, drag artists... "cishet man" does not inherently mean someone who is not queer. there are many ways to be queer outside of being gay, bisexual, and/or trans. and even then, this behavior gets dangerous fast because strangers you perceive to be cishet men very well can be anything but that. someone you clock to be a cishet man may be a closeted trans girl, a trans man, a non binary person, a butch lesbian, and so on. you treating that person like they're an inherent danger causes a whole host of issues

this attitude is also why trans men, trans women, and non binary people are being forcefully removed from queer communities. if a queer person reads or passes as a "cishet man," they are treated with hostility and asked to leave in a lot of cases. we cannot allow the concept of manhood and perceived manhood to be viewed as something to be avoided and cast out, because it affects so much more than just cishet men. this attitude affects a LOT of closeted and non-passing trans women. honestly, that's who this hurts the most. it hurts trans men and enbies, but it really hurts trans women. it creates a standard where they have to overperform femininity and womanhood in order to be seen as "safe", and it's not okay.

projecting your issues with a small handful of people on to an entire group does not help. you have not been harmed by the concept of cishet men- you have been harmed by specific cishet men. in permanently labeling cishet men as bad people, this creates an ultimatum where they can never improve. hating them by virtue of them being cishet men creates a standard that cishet men will ALWAYS be terrible, and that they can't improve or learn. this creates an environment where no one challenges these behaviors and it makes the cycle even more toxic and abusive

it's okay to not want to spend time with cishet men, but saying that you hate all cishet men really isn't a good look. it's not the way to go about living a happy life. assuming that every single cishet man on this planet will hurt you or be a bad person strictly by virtue of being a cishet man is exactly what cishets do to us. this is how queerphobic cishet people look at trans women. there's no reason to do it back. we have to learn not to stereotype entire groups of people, no matter who they are

the concept of cishet men has never hurt you, and it never will. cishet men are not your enemy- patriarchy is. not every single cishet man benefits from patriarchy, either. intersex men, men of color, gender non conforming men, ace men and aro men are treated like absolute shit for not conforming to the toxic masculinity that patriarchy pushes. patriarchy also harms men- we must stand alongside men who are being chewed up and spat out by this machine. cishet men are not inherently bad people- we are grooming boys and men to be hostile, emotionally closed off, and violent. this is not an inherent trait of cishet men, but rather a societal issue

i hope that makes sense! in general it just really sucks to stereotype an entire group of people. it doesn't help anyone. the concept of cishet manhood hasn't hurt you and it never will. cishet men can still be allies. i've had lots of cishet male friends who weren't transphobic or even homophobic. the first person in my irl life to switch to using my proper pronouns at the time was a cishet man. he never screwed up my pronouns once, he never questioned my gender identity. cishet man does not mean inherently violent, dangerous, and evil. the more we teach men that they don't have to be this way, the more they will follow.

hope that helps! take care!

#asks #answers #cishet men #antimasculism

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david-talks-sw · 10 months ago

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The OTHER type of Star Wars fan

We've already covered (through this longer post and this addendum) that research shows George wasn't that involved or interested in the derivative material of the Star Wars franchise, also known as the Expanded Universe (EU). Aside from approving a few points, he let Howard Roffman and Lucasfilm Licensing handle it.

He is the first to say that he ain't as knowledgeable about Star Wars lore as we fans are.

Thing is... he's also not as passionate as we are.

Recently, I was watching some Q&A videos of George R.R. Martin, the author of Game of Thrones... and it occurred to me:

Martin is what most Star Wars fans wish Lucas was.

Think about it.

He's a talented writer who likes to focus on morally "gray" characters and complex political plotlines,

who created a series of novels for a mature audience in which his narrative merely asks questions and lets the reader draw their own conclusions,

knows and engages in the lore behind his creation and will often respond to those lore-heavy questions, and has gone on record stating that canon is the glue that holds a story together and keeps it coherent.

Contrast that with George "continuity is for wimps" Lucas, who:

Wrote a movie franchise which is also, partially, political... but he makes it for kids, and he's explicit about how this is thematically a clear-cut story about how the conflict of "good vs evil" is really about "compassion vs greed",

with flat dialogue, boring cinematography,

and whose approach to lore and canon can be summed up in his answer to how Anakin got his scar:

"I don't know. Ask Howard [Roffman]. That’s one of those things that happens in the novels between the movies. I just put it there. He has to explain how it got there. I think Anakin got it slipping in the bathtub, but of course, he's not going to tell anybody that." - Pablo Hidalgo’s set diary, August 2003

And as a Star Wars fan, I will admit that some of his casual retcons felt disrespectful, growing up.

"Boba Fett is NOT Mandalorian?!"

I had the same reaction when I saw an interview of Kathleen Kennedy stating she was a fan of Star Wars... from a filmmaking perspective. That seemed like such a finagling cop-out for me, at the time.

"Just say you're not a real fan, God!"

And it's easy to divide it in two camps, like that. You have 1) the real fans, who will delve into deep lore, and 2) the average moviegoer, also known as the "filthy casuals."

But looking back on it... holy shit, that is actually a completely valid way of being a Star Wars fan.

Yes, Star Wars is a transmedia franchise, it's books, it's video-games, it's deep lore, it's lightsabers and Jedi and Sith and bounty hunters and Ewoks and Jabba and High Republics and Tython and Revan etc.

But before it was that, Star Wars was a filmmaking revolution. A juggernaut of innovation for the silver screen that inspired most of today's filmmakers.

So, sure, George Lucas isn't an avid lore-loving Star Wars fan like you and me. But he is a movie fan.

"I'm not that passionate about this story. I like it, it's fun and I enjoy doing it. But it's definitely not my life. I'm a bigger movie fan than I am Star Wars fan. I like making movies. At the end of nine years of making Star Wars, I was not ready to continue it. I was completely burned out on it. I was more passionate about raising my kids than making movies and especially making Star Wars. So I made other kinds of movies and TV shows and advanced the technology I needed. It's not a matter of passion. My passion is for filmmaking. I'll go and do filmmaking that is easier to do, where you can realise your ideas better. And nine years is a big part of your life, and to commit to another nine years, I didn't wanna do that right away." - EMPIRE, 1999

And you can tell this, when you watch the Star Wars films.

There are honestly so many homages and interesting filmmaking techniques, peppered throughout the six films, which only a nerd for cinema history like George would know how to implement.

C3-PO being based on the droid from Metropolis (1927) is a perfect example of this.

And that's interesting.

Because there's essentially this entire other dimension to the films, where it's not just the story unfolding, but to filmmakers it's also a series of techniques that make them go "I wonder how they did that!" or homages that make them go "OH! I know where that's from!" like we do when an comics characters appears in live-action.

Here's other examples:

CINEMA HOMAGES

All of Star Wars is absolutely littered with homages to cinema history.

I mean, you may already know this, but Flash Gordon is what George originally wanted to shoot, but the copyright holders said they only wanted Fellini to direct it (ironically, George wasn't artsy-fart enough for them). So he decided to write Star Wars instead.

As such, the inspiration from Flash Gordon is also present visually and spiritually throughout the two trilogies.

"It was like a Republic serial, a 1930s-style matinee adventure. The idea was that you came in, saw Episode IV, had missed the first three episodes, and wouldn't get to see the rest of it." - Starlog Magazine #300, 2002

The dialogue that a lot of people refer to as "campy" and "flat" is actually a mix of George being an experimental filmmaker who doesn't give much of a fuck about dialogue (and is by his own admission, not the best at it)...

"I'd be the first person to say I can't write dialogue. My dialogue is very utilitarian and is designed to move things forward. I'm not Shakespeare. It's not designed to be poetic. It's not designed to have a clever turn of phrase. [...] I just wanted to get from point A to point B. This film doesn't lend itself to that sort of thing because it's not about snappy one-liners. I think that Lethal Weapon-style dialogue is overused, it's a necessary aspect of high action films where you have to have the smart retort. You have to say "I'll be back baby" and stuff. It's not my style. It takes away from the integrity of the movie. [...] I'm aware that dialogue isn't my strength. I use it as a device. I don't particularly like dialogue which is part of the problem." - EMPIRE, 1999

... which is convenient, because it helped him simulate the dialogue of 1930s matinee serials, such as Flash Gordon.

"Let’s face it, their dialogue in that scene is pretty corny. It is presented very honestly, it isn’t tongue in cheek at all, and it’s played to the hilt. But it is consistent, not only with the rest of the movie, but with the overall Star Wars style. Most people don’t understand the style of Star Wars. They don’t get that there is an underlying motif that is very much like a 1930s Western or Saturday matinee serial. It’s in the more romantic period of making movies and adventure films. And this film is even more of a melodrama than the others." - Mythmaking: Behind the Scenes of Attack of the Clones, 2002

But beyond that, literally it's everywhere.

The scene where Palpatine ascends to being Emperor as Anakin slaughters his political rivals parallels the final scene in The Godfather, where Michael becomes the Don while his goons do the same thing.

This video compiles all the tributes beautifully. Check it out.

youtube

Even The Clone Wars has whole episodes that are direct homages to cult classics. The Zillo Beast episode is a clear reference to Godzilla, the episode The Wrong Jedi is inspired by The Wrong Man, etc.

"CINEMA VÉRITÉ" CINEMATOGRAPHY

I've already written a whole post (one of my favourites) showing how his fascination with cinéma vérité documentaries is reflected in the cinematography of all six Star Wars films, and it's part of what makes the entire franchise feel so immersive.

You can check it out here:

KUROSAWA

We've gone over how he's a big fan of Akira Kurosawa, and how big an influence Hidden Fortress was on both the Star Wars trilogies...

... but so is the mise-en-scène and the way George approaches production design. The reason Star Wars feels so "lived in" is also a lesson George learned from Kurosawa, which is that by making everything just a bit off-kilter, a bit dirtied-up and imperfect...

... and yet keeping it all consistent, in a way, you manage to make the film feel grounded and immersive, no matter how alien it is.

"[It] may sound odd in a movie like this, but credibility and realism, even in the most unrealistic situation… to sorta create that sense of realism is very important to making the story work and making you feel like you’re actually in the environment that transports you and gives you the suspension of disbelief that you need in order to enjoy a movie. [...] Kurosawa used to call it “immaculate realism” which is to make it slightly off-kilter, slightly eccentric, like things are in real life. Even if it’s a very predictable situation, give it that little funny edge that takes it away from that and makes it realistic. And I had to struggle very hard, in the Star Wars films, to make them appear to be realistic, even though they’re totally fantasy." - The Phantom Menace, Commentary Track #2, 1999

POST-PRODUCTION & VFX

Another one of the more impressive aspects of the first Star Wars was the dogfights and the trench raid of the Death Star. The camera pans with the spaceship, the dynamism of the cuts. The space battles is what made George creat ILM in the first place.

He was determined to do the opposite of what 2001: A Space Odyssey had done with that opening scene where the space ship moves into frame slooooowly...

... so he gave the team a collection of WWII dogfight footage to give them ideas.

(note: this was the same approach he would take years later with Dave Filoni, when teaching the latter how to edit and craft dogfights in The Clone Wars)

The attempt to film the trench run eventually led to the creation of the first motion control camera dolly.

Best analogy I can think of, when describing George's approach to Star Wars, is the following:

An avant-garde esoteric contemporary artist - y'know, the type who puts a blue dot on a white canvas and calls it art - creates a comic.

Why? Because he wants to make this one art installment for a gallery exhibition. After that, he intends to move on to other things.

But the comic is really good! And like, its audience quickly expands beyond just gallery visitors, no, everyone likes it.

Suddenly, the comic develops a cult following, and the entirety of comic book geek culture has zeroed-in on the artist and they're all asking him to make more art! And he makes more! And more!

Then he stops for two decades, moves on to other art projects, raises his kids. Years later, he discovers new ways of drawing, and he's like "I'm making a Prequel to the comic, y'all wanna see it?"

Everyone cries out gleefully: "Oh God, yes! Finally! Show us!"

But this motherfucker makes a manga.

Why? Because he feels like it.

And of course he does, he's just creating art, right? He discovered the graphic tablet, so he's having fun with it, because he's always innovating and pushing the envelope with his art.

And the books are fine, by manga standards. But by comic book standards, they obviously suck! The comic book audience is mad. They wanted another comic book, not a manga. Why is it in black and white? Why is read right-to-left? This comic is crap!

(And arguably, they have a point... as a savvy businessman, he's made a whole lot of money off this comic, he built a media empire out of it, and instead of giving them what they want, he made something else)

But again... this guy isn't a comic book illustrator, and has been very explicit about saying this.

He's an artist who - for a very specific project - drew a comic.

Many things can be true at once:

the fact that these creative decisions didn't always hit their mark for the average moviegoer, or fans of "Star Wars, the space fantasy movies and expanded universe" (usually the lore-loving geeks like myself)...

... and the fact that they were meticulously and carefully crafted in a way that fans of "Star Wars, the revolutionary film" (aka fans of cinema and filmmaking) can appreciate.

There's a spectrum of the fandom, and there is a spectrum in the way we can appreciate Star Wars. Which kinda reminds me of that scene in Chef (2014) where Carl goes on a rant explaining the intricacies of making his chocolate lava cake to a food critic.

It's not just undercooked chocolate. It's molten.

Conversely:

It's not just flat, campy dialogue. It's an homage to the 1930s matinee serials à la Flash Gordon.

It's not just boring cinematography. It's a reproduction of cinéma vérité documentary-style camera work which effectively grounds the film.

Having considered all this, when I hear that Tony Gilroy or Kathleen Kennedy were more fans of Star Wars from a "cinema studies" side rather than the typical pop culture one, I think it's fair enough.

First of all, because like it or not, so was George. He clearly didn't give a single crap about the offshoot comics and books and their lore, besides signing off on minor plot points. He's not a "sci-fi movie director", he's an experimental filmmaker who set some of his movies in space.

But secondly, because - aside from children - it's clear the audience he was targeting was not the fans or the critics... but these very same cinema-savvy people, who get his references and homages, and who were inspired by the new filmmaking techniques he introduced.

#george lucas #star wars #long post #meta #cinema #kurosawa

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etz-ashashiyot · 1 year ago

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I'm sorry, but actually I'm not over that comment whining about how several of the JVP ritual, uh, practices and bastardization of Judaism are being excluded and how we can't police people's identities.

Actually yes we absolutely can.

[Rant incoming]

Listen, I hate exclusion, alright? Inclusion is always the answer when it comes to people knowing who they are. Every obnoxious identity policing thing in the queer community that has divided us and ripped apart communities has been cruel, counterproductive, given platform to bigots, a distraction from the real issues bearing down on us, and honestly just dumb as a box of rocks. Okay? Okay.

But Jewish identity works differently, because it isn't about YOU. Becoming Jewish is about taking on Jewish culture and religion, a closed ethnoreligious culture, through the narrow path consented to by the collective Jewish people. There IS a path, but it is a highly supervised one. Otherwise it's just appropriation and cultural theft; something Jews have been subjected to for millennia. And if you do legitimately convert you do so because you love the Jewish people - the whole Jewish people - and want passionately to be a Jew for its own sake. You want to join our nation-tribe. You want to join our family.

And the crazy thing to me, the thing that still blows my mind, is that this is allowed! Even after millennia of appropriation, oppression, violence, expulsions, and genocides, Am Yisrael still accepts genuine gerim. It would be so understandable if they had closed the path entirely and tried to shut out outsiders who might bring in danger on their heels even if they themselves were not dangerous.

But they didn't. We didn't. To me this is a miracle, a blessing, and sign of true faith and hope. It is a privilege to be here.

Yet in the same turn, you gotta respect the process! You can't just declare yourself a Jew simply because you feel like it — it doesn't work like that. You can't just declare yourself an Argentinian one morning either without becoming a citizen first, even if you have Argentinian ancestry. And sure, if you do have some of that ancestry, you are connected to the nation, but that's different from being given a vote y'know?

Using a totally unsupervised, totally unsanctioned, brand-new neo-pagan ritual to unilaterally declare your membership in a tribe does not make you one of us. If anything, it proves why you never will be.

Now! Let's assume for a moment that we are referring only to the provably halachic Jews whose connection and backgrounds are beyond reasonable questioning.

You can never really leave the tribe, but you absolutely can apostasize. Plenty of Jews do it. There are plenty of Jews who find that Judaism is not spiritually fulfilling for them but something else is, and they convert out. There are halachic Jews who have walked away from Judaism in order to practice any other number of religions: Christianity, Islam, Neo-paganism, Hinduism, etc.

That is their prerogative, but by doing so they turn away from their people in a serious way and cannot be said to be practicing Judaism. There is of course room for many different types of Jewish practice, but conversely, there are practices that are too far removed from Judaism to meaningfully be considered as such. Otherwise, it's no longer a coherent group identity. And because Judaism is a collective identity, that actually matters.

The Jews as a people have decided that worshipping gods that are not Hashem is not within the realm of Judaism, which is why messianic "Jews" are not practicing a valid form of Judaism even if they are halachicly Jewish and/or have Jewish ancestry. Worshipping Jesus makes you a Christian or at least adjacent. That is a hard boundary.

And yeah — if you change the basic meaning of holidays, if you bring in lots of practices that are brand new and have no halachic or even historical basis, are often highly individualistic, and would not be accepted as Judaism by the vast majority of Jews, then it absolutely falls outside it. If I started practicing a religion that made little icons of Muhammad to pray to once a day and celebrated my ingenuity with pork roast and a nice glass of wine, I don't get to say that I'm practicing Islam.

These people are doing the Jewish equivalent. It is something else entirely. Especially because so many of these practices spit in the face of major tenets of Judaism and go against Jewish values.

To treat it otherwise is to treat it as an absolutely meaningless aesthetic rather than a living breathing ethnoreligious tribe of people who get to decide our own community's boundaries and practices collectively.

And for the naysayers who still disrespect Judaism and Jewish identity and peoplehood so much that they think that they get to define Judaism more than actual rabbis? Look, we can't physically stop you from calling yourself Jewish, but by the same turn, YOU can't force US to recognize you as one of us. You can be mad, but that's the thing about group cultural identities — that cultural group gets to decide whether they claim you or not.

[To be clear: this is not about politics — there are plenty of Jewish non-Zionists and anti-Zionists who are 100% Jewish. This is about this one specific shitty organization and this particular type of behavior.]

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eternal-echoes · 5 months ago

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“Your child says she's trans. Now what? Many parents are frightened that if they don't affirm the child's declared gender identity, they could lose their child. In fact, some trans activists openly discuss how they train family court judges to view parental hesitation as a form a "medical neglect."(2) As a result, some parents can lose custody of their children if they don't consent to hormones and surgery.(3) Therefore, what should you do if your child claims to be trans? If you don't affirm her proclaimed gender identity, are you rejecting her?

First off, here's what not to do: Don't freak out, be dismissive, tell her it's just a phase, try to win a debate, convince her she's immature, or remind her that the frontal lobe of her brain isn't fully developed. Upon reading this, some parents might think, "Okay, I already managed to do all of that during our first conversation, and now she's locked in her room with her earphones on, not answering the door, and probably staring at her cellphone screen again. Any suggestions for damage control?"

When the dust settles, approach her gently and say, "I want to apologize. I'm sorry I didn't handle that very well. I honestly wasn't sure what to think or what to say. Do you mind if I could try to listen again?" Although teenagers often have a short attention span when listening to their parents, they have a surprisingly long one when parents offer a sincere apology. Nonetheless, if she spouts off a snarky reply, give her a pass this time. Let her air her grievances.

Should she be willing to reengage in a conversation, here are ten tips for your initial discussions:

One: Express gratitude that she has shared this information with you. Odds are, these feelings have been brewing in her mind for quite some time, but she was afraid to talk to you about them. She might have privately navigated through stages of initial awareness about her gender dysphoria, followed by waves or confusion, shame, exploration, self-rejection, resignation, and acceptance. For her to confide in you more deeply about where she's at in this process, she'll need to feel safe.

Two: Express reverent curiosity. By the time she talks to you about this, she has probably spent countless hours learning about the subject online and discussing it with others. If you don't understand concepts or terms she uses, invite her to explain what she means by them. If some of them strike you as absurd, unscientific, or theologically unsound, now is not the time to debate. Listen and learn what she's thinking. If you show her that you're willing to listen to her, in due time she'll value what you have to say in return. If she's open to sharing with you some of the sources where she's learned about the topic of gender, take the time to explore what they are saying, so you can better understand what she's thinking. In time, as she sees that you're willing to learn more about what matters to her, she may be open to reviewing resources you could share with her, that charitably call into question some of the ideologies she may have internalized.

Three: Be empathetic. Don't try to disprove her feelings. Rather, find places where you agree and might be able to affirm her ache or discontent. You could say, "I can see why you would feel constrained by the way the world expects people to fit into stereotypes. That makes sense." Although you might not agree on what it means for her live as her "authentic self," you can affirm her desire to live authentically. You could also affirm that this must be difficult to experience and acknowledge that you realize she didn't choose to feel this way. It's possible to validate her feelings without validating her reasoning, beliefs, and ideology. You could add, "I can see this has been very hard on you. I hear what you're saying, and I want to help. Thank you for trusting me with this."

Four: Rather than interrogating her, ask thoughtful questions. For example, "Can you tell me more about this? I want to understand." "What can I do for you?" "What has it been like to tell me about this? It must have taken courage." As your conversations deepen with time, you might be able to gradually map out the history of conflicts she has felt with her sexual identity. For example, "When did you start feeling this way?" "What was happening in your life at that time?" "When does the discomfort feel most intense?" For some individuals, gender dysphoria is like a white noise always playing in the background of their lives. For others, it fluctuates in intensity, and certain things such as formal attire and events (where individuals are expected to dress in a strictly masculine or feminine way) could trigger dysphoria. Another female recalled, "I felt the most dysphoric in my teenage years just in my bedroom.”(4) As you learn more about her experiences, you can discover ways to avoid triggering some of the distress.

Five: Don't debate her memories, even if they seem embellished. Parents of gender dysphoric teens often note that their child often reinterprets their childhood history through a transgender lens. Rather than trying to disprove her recollection, listen to her perception.

Six: Be humble. If she points out some of your flaws and the hurts that you have caused, own what you can without blame-shifting. Seek forgiveness where it is needed. Often, parents worry that if they admit blame, they empower their children to hold things against them. The opposite is true. When children witness authentic vulnerability, they learn from example that ownership of one's shortcomings is a trait to be emulated.

Seven: Remind her that she is loved. Reaffirm that you will never leave her, no matter what. Explain that God loves her unconditionally as well. Perhaps you could take this moment to also apologize on behalf of the Church if she has ever been alienated by members of her faith community. Reassure her that God loves her, that He desires a personal relationship with her, and that the Church is her home. Assure her of your prayers and encourage her to have a genuine prayer life as well.

Eight: Listen for deeper motives. Drs. Yarhouse and Sadusky write:

What motivates their gender atypical behavior varies. Teens may engage in atypical expression to manage gender dysphoria, reduce anxiety about body image, express a sense of "true self," experience sexual arousal, seek entertainment, or respond to boredom. Moreover, some teens do appear to be in a search for identity and community.(5)

Each person's motivation is their own. But by listening well, you can gradually discover that there are often motives that run much deeper than simply the profession, "I'm trans." What might appear on the surface to be a feeling of inadequacy could have a layer of shame beneath it, and self-hatred at the core. Insofar as these or other deeper factors surface, try to help them distinguish how they feel from who they are. Your unconditional love will help her to explore difficult emotions such as resentment, anger, hurt, and self-loathing, so that the deeper unmet needs can be addressed with healthy strategies.

Nine: Don't pull away from your child. The topic of gender can cause so much relational friction that some parents opt for a "flight" response, hoping the difficulty will spontaneously resolve if they ignore it long enough. One young woman recalled that as she was wrestling with the idea of gender, she felt as if she were being pushed in a "confused and desperate head space" by her parent's isolated attitude toward her. Speaking of her mother, she wished that she "would have shown a bit more understanding and asked me some questions and talked to me like I was a human being going through a struggle rather than a problem to be solved."(6) So, rather than viewing her as a problem to be solved, consider her to be a mystery to be gradually revealed. According to existing research on the well-being of LGBT-identifying young people, the best predictor of their well-being over time is the quality of their relationship with you, their parents.(7)

Ten: Buy yourself time. You could say, "To be honest, this is a lot for me to understand. But I can tell that this really matters to you, and so I want you to know that I take this seriously because of that. I need some time to process our conversation and learn more about this." Telling her that you need time enables you to avoid making any major decisions or promises (other than love) in your initial conversations. It allows you time to strategize how to help them manage their dysphoria in the least invasive manner possible. Further, it models the type of thoughtful discernment around complexity that you hope your child would emulate.”

-Jason Evert, Male, Female, or Other: A Catholic Guide to Understanding Gender

—

Work cited:

2) Julian Vigo, "Capitulating to Bullies: Brown University and the Transgender Lobby vs. Science," Public Discourse (October 7, 2018).

3) Cf. Ryan Anderson, "Parents Denied Custody of Child for Refusing Support of Transgenderism: Here's What You Need to Know," Lifesitenews.com, February 19, 2018.

4) "DETRANSITION Q&A (#1)," https://youtu.be/kxVmSGTgNxI.

5) Mark Yathouse and Julia Sadusky, Emerging Gender Identities (Ada, MI: Brazos Press, 2020), 67.

6) "DETRANSITION Q&A (#1)," https://youtu.be/kxVmSGTgNxI.

7) Cf. Yarhouse and Sadusky, Emerging Gender Identities, 66.

—

For more recommended resources on gender dysphoria, click here.

#mtf #ftm #Nonbinary #genderfluid #transgenderism #transgender ideology #Jason Evert #quotes #Male Female Other: A Catholic Guide to Understanding Gender

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accirax · 8 months ago

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Danganronpa: Despair Time Chapter 2 Episode 14 Dissection

I can't think of how to introduce this dissection other than just saying "god damn??". This chapter-- especially its second part-- has been a wild ride, and one that it appears we're nearing the end of. However, we still have one important question left to answer, which I'm sure I'll talk about here. So, let's chat.

SPOILERS for Danganronpa: Despair Time Chapter 2 Episode 14.

Also, I will be discussing Ace and Eden as equally likely blackened candidates in this post. If it will upset you to hear about the prospects of either or both of them being the killer, you might want to sit this one out.

Given what happens later in the episode, it's very interesting that the episode began with (more or less) Ace "admitting" that he has no idea how the murder mechanism worked. A truthful method of disqualification, or a masterful play by Ace to ask Teruko to ask him about the murder method only to pretend that he has no idea what it was? Time will have to tell on that one, because I honestly have no leads.

Similarly, is this Eden being genuinely shaken up and not remembering what transpired in the Gym, or trying to play the helpless innocent card to get out of having to help Teruko explain the murder method that she stole? Spoilers for my thoughts later in this dissection, I guess: they're so evenly matched that it's crazy.

I've always thought that Hu is the prettiest DRDT character, and this episode did nothing but prove me right. Hot damn, ma'am.

The insistence that this questioning is "traumatizing [Nico]" makes me think that Hu could be projecting her own experiences on to them. Perhaps she was once an innocent in a situation for which she kept taking the blame? That would be interesting as another connection between Hu and Nico, of both of them having taken the blame for someone else's follies.

This was a hilarious comeback; never change, Ace. Or, maybe you do need to change slightly, to become a less cowardly and impulsive person. Or maybe I should at least be rooting for you to have the chance to change in the sense that you live long enough to have that work out for you.

Yet another instance of J being the one to say that murder is bad. I wonder if this has to do with her character/backstory in some particular way (although given what we know about her past I have no idea what that would be), or if DRDTdev just needed a judgmental and confrontational person who would snap back at anyone to take over these kinds of lines.

(That's not me dunking on J's character btw she's valid for this)

This was a really clever way for Charles to phrase this to make Hu listen and settle down. I appreciate the out-of-the-box yet logical thinking. (Also I missed hearing Charles' voice :,D)

Woah, I was not expecting to get a Closing Argument comic for the Gym murder, but I am obviously delighted that we have one! Also, OH MY GOD, THE CEILING GRATE. How did none of us even think to consider that as part of the murder mechanism?

However, there are still some aspects of the state of the Gym that haven't yet been accounted for with this version of the murder timeline. I don't really think it's anything that would stop Nico from being Ace's would-be killer at this point, but I'll list them out here in case they are or in case they turn out to be relevant to Arei's murder. I'll also be trying to debunk them, though.

Moved Benches: Some of the benches near the pullup bar were knocked over. These probably fell either in some sort of struggle while knocking out Ace, or when Ace's body fell from the fan.

Moved Weight Rack: The weight rack was moved closer to the bench press and flipped on its back. I guess this really was also knocked over in the same fashion, no matter how unrealistically difficult it should have been to move due to its weight? Or it really was "workout preferences"???

Nico's Missing Cowl: When Teruko and Eden found Nico at the scene of the crime, they weren't wearing their typical dark cape thing. I have no clue why. You could say that Nico was trying to look less instantly recognizable, but it's not as if anyone (other than maybe Teruko) who saw a dark-haired 5'5" individual in a blue shirt instead of a gray cowl would think it was anyone other than Nico. There's also ye olde theory that they might have used it to soak up blood somewhere, but 1) Ace seems to have lost less blood than it may have seemed, and 2) the cowl was still not seen anywhere in the crime scene. I think I remember speculating that after Nico hypothetically used it to soak up blood (or, on second thought, maybe used it to gag Ace with the turpentine), they then stuck it in the fridge to hide it for the time being, at which point MonoTV discarded it and Nico got a new cape from their room. Maybe if it was used to apply the turpentine, Nico also could've put it away to prevent themselves from being affected by the fumes? I guess that's what I'm going with.

Lack of Tape on Pullup Bar: So, this one is obviously relevant to the murder already because Rose not being able to do a pullup is part of what tips off Teruko to the fact that something is off with the tape. However, I have no idea why the tape actually got removed from the bar. I still maintain that I don't think anyone could have stolen the tape off of that bar and repurposed it elsewhere-- most online sources seem to agree that kinesiology tape isn't reusable, and the fact that it was already wrapped around the bar in such a tight spiral would make it difficult to conform to any new specific shapes. My best guess is that Nico might have tried to use the bar instead of the light grate at first, determined that the tape was preventing the wire from sliding properly, and then removed the tape before determining the bar still didn't work. Or, Nico could have tried using the bar before settling on the broom, and thinking that it wouldn't work with tape on it... for some reason? Kinda scratching my head here.

I wonder how long ago it was. It's been four days since the Chapter 2 motive was revealed, although Ace was attacked only two days after the motive. Furthermore, Ace had started bullying Nico to some level already by the end of Chapter 1. I'm sure that Nico must have known what their secret was and probably didn't want it to be shared. My guess would be that they probably started cooking on murder pretty shortly after the new motive was released. That would also work with Charles-via-Whit letting everyone know what the custom weapons were in the first Class Trial.

This was the perfect response for Nico's character. They don't understand why an untruthful "sorry" would actually serve as a courtesy for most people, so they try to say what they feel and get ostracized for it.

Gotta say though, Ace, that was a pretty aggressive reaction from someone who said he "didn't need other people to tell him lies just to keep him happy" ;) (/j)

Damn, way to throw Levi under the bus. I can see why, for someone like Nico, they would want to assert themselves as not the most abnormal person here, though. I just want them to be neurodivergent buddies :(

If that's the case, then I'd have to imagine that we won't be seeing Nico as a killer again down the line. However, they could also just mean "getting caught"/"going in without a solid gameplan," so it's still possible we will. There's also the possibility of them doing something more like a sacrifice kill, although it would take a lot of character work to make something like that feel within Nico's nature.

Sorry to keep screenshotting every little thing Nico says but they keep saying really interesting things. The fact that Nico specifically mentions their father as opposed to "parents" or "family" makes me think that we'll hear more about their father specifically sometime in the future. Or, who knows, maybe their other parent left or died.

Nico: I don't expect you to forgive me. Very few people ever do. So I don't see the point in acting sorry.

This was very interesting as an addendum to the above screenshot. What exactly did Nico "ask for" forgiveness for in the past? Was it just more social blunders, as they described in ch2-e2, or did they get into more trouble closer to this level than we realized? It could also be an indication that Nico has spent time with people who believe that being nonbinary is a crime that Nico needs to feel sorry for. Fascinating stuff, indeed.

Points for Ace being the killer. We know that he went into this trial looking to suspect Nico ("[...] I'm pretty sure I know who the murderer is. It's not David, it's Nico"), so if Ace is the killer, it would make sense if he'd want to make the crime scene resemble Nico's to make his bait more credible.

Hey, it's the aforementioned T A P E T I M E, motherfuckers :D (still /j) Personally, it's quite gratifying to hear that it wasn't just a visual malfunction or a minor detail blown way out of proportion.

You're, uh... getting to this point much faster than I expected, queen. I don't think she's now going to go down the exact same distrustful rabbit hole that she was in before, but there's definitely still potential for her hopes to be crushed by the end of this chapter. Or, maybe she will accept some people as genuine friends, and instead in the future have to confront how she feels when she loses a genuine friend, or not blaming herself for the effects of her luck, or something along those lines. I like that Teruko isn't a static edgy protagonist, though. Like, don't get me wrong, I've always known and appreciated that she has depth, but it's refreshing that she isn't someone who's so stubborn about her own way of thinking that she refuses to admit when she's in the wrong. Teruko really wants friends, guys.

TERUROSE REAL??????

(Also Rose's speech was excellent as well I just didn't have anything in particular to say about it other than "wow" at the moment)

Yahoo, lockdown logic strikes again! Also, a quick

Is Teruko Correct In This Assumption?

Personally, I fully think yes, only Ace or Eden could be the culprit at this point. MonoTV confirmed that it tried to restore the Gym to the best of its ability but couldn't return the tape, which means both that there was no tape in the Gym to be taken and that there was never any spare tape in the Storage Room that MonoTV could have used to replace the roll. I guess you could say that there was an extra roll of tape in the Storage Room that someone else took before the murder took place, but that level of coincidence seems implausible at this point in the Trial.

No, for anyone other than Eden or Ace to have acquired the tape, they must have either stolen it from one of those two or asked for it from one of those two. Asking them seems very unlikely-- for starters, if it was Ace who took the tape, I don't think he'd be giving free hand-outs to anyone. And, if Eden isn't the killer herself, that means all of her fright regarding stumbling upon Ace's body was genuine. I don't think she's naive enough to then hand over what was used in Ace's murder to anyone asking... or at least not without bringing it up now. Beyond that, anyone who would ask either of them for the tape would have to know that the tape was used in the murder attempt, knowledge of which was very limited. This episode went to lengths to establish that Nico was the sole culprit behind the attack on Ace, and while it's still possible it could all be an elaborate lie, the explanation Nico gave felt very in character and important for their characterization moving forwards. So, while Nico would obviously know it was used, if Nico asked either of them for the tape, surely neither Eden nor Ace would trust them. Otherwise, I think Rose is the only one who could have found out it was gone, but even so, given that neither Eden nor Ace have tried to argue that Rose asked them for the tape, I don't think that happened.

You could also say the same of neither Eden nor Ace claiming to have had the tape stolen from them-- but I could see either of them feeling like claiming to have taken the tape at all right now would be a death sentence, so I understand why they wouldn't say it. Still, I don't know if the narrative is there to support the tape having been stolen from them. On the day after the Gym murder (Day 7), Eden isn't seen in the daily life at all. If someone stole the tape from Eden on that day, I would think that DRDTdev would at least want to show us who Eden was spending time with on that day (given that he put in the effort to make the tape sprite disappear from the Gym at the time it did), so that we would have any idea who might have done so. Ace is seen once in the Day 7 daily life, arguing with Hu, Nico, Levi, Veronika, and Arei. However, having just been attacked, I imagine he'd be hyper-aware of anyone getting close to him, and therefore would be more likely to notice if someone was rifling around in his pockets (if he has pockets?).

Really, I think the only possible candidates for who could have stolen tape from Ace or Eden would be Levi (mostly just for Ace) and Arei (from either of them). Levi might have had an opportunity to take the tape from Ace on the night he was attacked, the night of Day 6. Eden said last episode that Levi "kept trying to help him" after Ace was attacked, which could imply that Levi was the one to put bandages around Ace's neck. Furthermore, he does have a criminal past, which could make him better at stealing. Similarly, Arei is confirmed to be a good pickpocket, stealing Min's pen without Min noticing at all. I think she's the only one with the proper buildup to have taken the tape from Ace at that breakfast, and would be the most likely to have spent time with Eden when Eden was off-screen. (Although, it would have to have been before lunch, because Eden says the last time she saw Arei was at lunch.)

However, I don't think many people think that Levi is the killer anymore, and if Arei stole the tape from Eden or Ace only for the killer to then steal the tape from Arei, I would start to wonder why DRDTdev even made the tape such a scarce resource in the first place. Remember that, if the killer was purposefully trying to recreate Nico's idea, they likely knew in advance that they would need the tape to pull off their plan. It was used in enough places that seizing the opportunity to take it off of Arei seems unlikely, as it was too fundamental to the plan's inception. Besides, for the killer to replicate Nico's plan in the first place, the killer likely needs to be Nico, Eden, Ace, or Teruko, who are the ones who could have most easily taken the tape on their own.

I've already seen people accuse this Trial of being bloated, and while I strongly disagree (I only think cases are bloated when they're stalling for time and have nothing of interest to discuss, and we've still had PLENTY of interesting stuff to discuss), if we spent a whole 'nother who-knows-how-many episodes reversing all of the progress we just made to say that either Nico wasn't actually the one to kill Ace or that someone who didn't see the crime scene killed Arei, that bloating problem would only seem worse to those people.

I understand if you don't want to believe that Eden or Ace has to be the culprit for whatever reasons-- whether that be that they're your favorites and you don't want them to die or you really like your theory and don't want it to be false-- but I really think that this episode cemented that either Ace or Eden will be voted for as the blackened for all of the reasons above. Therefore, I shall be proceeding accordingly.

She was WILD for this. Hilarious line of reasoning.

What's Up With the Body Discovery Announcement?

The "reveal" of this line of logic was no surprise to me. As someone who's believed that Eden is the culprit for quite a long time, we've had to figure out ways to get around this thing before, and besides perhaps "not witnessing the murder," someone else seeing the body before the BDA rang is the most obvious way to cheese it.

However, in order for this to be a thing, we have to ask ourselves-- who would have actually seen the body first?

David claims to, but he has an alibi starting at 7:30 AM with Veronika and J. Both because Arei theoretically wasn't dead before then and because we've been operating off of the assumption that a meal takes about 30 minutes to eat, I don't think any of the three of them could have stumbled across Arei in the morning. Nico and Hu both have an alibi, which I'm going to consider solid enough to remove them from possibility-- one of them spotting the body would be helpful to make Eden the killer, and I think the only people who believe that Hu and Nico are lying only believe so under the condition that one of them is the killer. Whit is out, because him seeing the body beforehand doesn't actually accomplish anything, and so is Charles, because we can assume that, if he saw the body, he would be out of commission. I'm also going to strike Rose from seeing the body before breakfast, both because she's very likely to have been asleep and because if she had already seen Arei's body in the Playground, she probably wouldn't have refused to draw a diagram. That would leave only Ace, Levi, and Arturo as non-blackeneds who could have helped facilitate culprit!Eden from not being caught by the BDA.

However, we also have to consider that "before 8 AM" isn't the only time someone could have stumbled across Arei's body. They also could have seen it before Teruko, Eden, and Whit did while everyone was looking for Arei. So, what do we know about what happened during the search for Arei? Not much. Hu says that they should split up, while J says she's going to check Arei's room. Teruko says that most people are probably searching the first floor, an assumption that's supported by Teruko, Eden, and Whit not seeing anyone else while they check the second floor. You might think that would eliminate the possibility of anyone else seeing Arei's body during the search, but Teruko did say most people, not all. There's also what MonoTV said when Teruko and Veronika were investigating the Gym.

MonoTV: It's too high! If you stood in the movie screening room on floor one and started punching through the walls, you'd fall into the playground.

This not-yet-addressed piece of evidence got me thinking about the possibility of someone seeing Arei's body from above, standing in the Motive Screening Room. It still probably couldn't be Teruko, Whit, Charles, Rose, or J, but anyone else would theoretically be back on the table if that were the case. That being said, I can't find any visual differences in how the Motive Screening Room looks between the beginning of Chapter 2, when the search for Arei begins, and when Teruko goes to check the motive secrets (other than a curtain being added over the screen in the third case). So, unless there was already a heretofore unmentioned hole to peek through in the room, I wouldn't count on that being the case. The connection between the Motive Screening Room and the Playground will probably just be relevant to a different chapter.

Therefore, that leaves us once again with Ace, Levi, and Arturo. The main problem with believing that any of them could have seen the body beforehand is why they wouldn't have brought that up at this point in the Trial. Here are my best guesses as to why:

Ace: I have genuinely no clue why Ace wouldn't have brought up that he saw the body in the morning (assuming that he actually did) to defend himself at this point. It's not like it would make anyone more suspicious of you.

Levi: Levi does seem to be a bit dense regarding what is and isn't helpful behavior in a Trial, so the most likely possibility to me is that he just didn't realize that confirming he saw her was helpful. Like, "oh, I didn't realize that me confirming that I saw Arei would help us pin down Eden as the killer. I was just trying to figure out how David and I both saw Arei's body this morning and I didn't see him." "Wh-- David was obviously lying!" "He was?" "I already told you he was lying before..." "Levi... we talked about this..." Bonus points for it not being out of character for Levi to be unfazed by seeing a body, though.

Arturo: In Arturo's case, I think it would have to be that he'd still be worried about people seeing him as suspicious for saying he found Arei's body in the case of accusing Eden specifically. They already have a past history of conflict, and I could see someone brashly accusing Arturo of throwing Eden under the bus just to get revenge on her for the secret thing (even if I don't think he would actually do that). He also made an enemy out of Arei, so I don't think he would be particularly fazed by seeing her corpse either-- similarities to Felicity's cause of death notwithstanding. However, I also find it likely that he trailed after J in going to check Arei's room.

So, what's our conclusion here? Does this mean that Eden is basically fully cleared by triggering the BDA? I wouldn't count her out just yet, but the evidence isn't looking great for her. It's quite possible David only brought up this argument to A) hold out suspension of disbelief that it's not just Ace for a little while longer, B) drop this logic as foreshadowing for a future killer's plan, C) characterize the kind of logic he uses in a Class Trial, or D) bring up this argument in canon so that the people who theorized that the BDA might not clear Eden or Whit wouldn't be like, "wait, but what about...?" However, it's also possible that one of the possibilities I listed above, something I might have missed, or the "see no evil" idea (as FF put it) could keep Eden in contention. That dynamism is part of what makes Ace and Eden feel so evenly matched.

See, this is what I assumed David was getting at after Nico reminded me of his early-morning alibi. But then he just kept talking...

I'm not going to delve into what David was thinking here too much, because I already have an anonymous ask about what I think David's rationale was that this will almost certainly come up in. However, as a short version, I imagine that David is trying to get everyone angry at each other in the hopes that it'll incite another murder that he can get the class to fail? Or to cause enough discord in the group that they just fail this one. That would be why he also rags on Rose for not remembering the tape, and insults Arturo's sister-- he wants no one to trust anyone so that the murder-solving process will be as un-streamlined as possible.

The fact that he targets Teruko so specifically is probably because he (accurately) assesses her as the only real threat there. Charles and Rose can help, sure, but their mental struggles make them easy enough to eliminate if you play your cards right. Teruko's main flaw is her lack of trust, so if David wants to weaken her, it makes sense to go right for that jugular. Furthermore, by stating his plans so plainly and publicly, it might incite other people to fight back against him and say that Teruko should trust them. However, that kind of olive branch might make Teruko even less inclined to get close to them, if what Teruko said to Eden at the end of ch2-e03 can tell us anything. Didn't stop Eden from trying at the end of this last episode, though!

After taking some more time to think about what David was up to this chapter, I might change my mind on those being his goals. But, this post does serve as my initial thoughts of sorts, and that's what I initially think about this scene.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Does Ace Have Nothing To Do With Arei?

What Ace has to say is more or less true-- barring the breakfast in which Arei didn't talk at all (AKA, no conversation), Ace has literally never been in a small group event with Arei. However, although they didn't talk to each other, Ace did overhear the conversation between David and Arei, which does give him a connection to Arei. Quite relevantly, Arei did say this to David during their conversation:

Arei: You said that sharing our secrets would help fight against the motive. But when I think about it, not a single good thing has come out of that. Eden was stupidly naive, as usual, and tried to talk to Arturo, so now I have to protect her.

From this, Ace could probably surmise that Eden had Arturo's secret, she talked to him about it, and that Arei stepped in to save her from Arturo. He was one of the few people who could have known that Eden and Arei grew closer before the murder occurred: another connection Ace had to information about Arei.

However, before you use that evidence to call Ace the killer, let me remind you that he still doesn't have enough information to write the note from just eavesdropping on this conversation alone. As I outlined in this theory (same as the one I just linked above), whoever wrote the note had to specifically know that Arturo's secret was about his sister, which Arei doesn't divulge (quite possibly because she didn't even know) to David. Therefore, although Arei mentioning Arturo and Eden in this conversation is interesting, it doesn't actually make Ace any more likely to be the killer, because he still would have needed to find some way to spy on Eden's secret and/or Arturo and Eden's conversation to write that note. (Unless mentioning the sister specifically was an oversight plot hole, but I never want to use that as my reasoning.)

So, do I get what Arturo is getting at? Yeah, Ace and Arei were never particularly involved, and Eden clearly has a greater connection to the victim. However, there is more to the Ace/Arei bond than it might first appear, and it's possible that could come up in the Trial moving forward.

This distinction-- between "Arei was my friend" and "Arei could have been my friend"-- could be very telling down the line. Eden pauses mid-tear-filled rant to distinguish that Arei is not her friend, not because she's dead, but because they hadn't reached that point yet. Arei is not Eden's friend in death. What can that possibly mean other than that Eden killed Arei?

... BUT THEN HOW THE FUCK CAN EDEN GO AND SAY ALL OF THIS, BE THE KILLER, AND THEREFORE PROVE DAVID RIGHT???

AND THE "BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT FRIENDS DO" REFERENCE??? AT THIS HOUR????? I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT MAKES HER SEEM MORE OR LESS SUSPICIOUS!!!!

OUGH AND THE MIN PARALLELS TOOOOOOO

MIN WAS TERUKO'S FRIEND BUT ALSO A KILLER. DOES THAT MEAN EDEN IS GOING TO BREAK THE CYCLE OR DOES IT MEAN THAT WE'RE STUCK IN A DOOMED STORY IN WHICH TERUKO IS THE PROTAGONIST? IT COULD GO EITHER WAY!!!

Jumping back in time for just a moment...

A Piece of Evidence That Lines Up to Them Only

I thought about making this its own separate post, but decided not to. If you guys want me to make this part it's own separate post so it's easier to find/comment on directly, let me know, and I'll set that up.

But before you can make your decision, I suppose I have to explain what I aim to do here. Basically, Teruko has told us that she's still torn between Eden and Ace (mood), and that, while she'll start off attacking Ace, she's looking for any pieces of evidence that could prove that only one of them could have committed the crime. Problem is, we have no indication of what that specific piece of evidence could be, and, trust me, it could be a lot of them. Thus, what I'm going to do in this "mini" theory is list out every piece of evidence that I can think of, and say whether it points to Eden being the culprit, Ace being the culprit, or it can't point to either of them. Perhaps once we're done, you'll see why I'm so conflicted on which of them it would be.

I'm going to tier these pieces of evidence in terms of least likely to be the missing piece to most likely to be the missing piece, starting with all of the aforementioned unexplained gym evidence. The knocked over benches and weight rack were not part of the replicated crime scene, and I have no idea how Ace or Eden would have wound up with any version of Nico's cowl. The missing tape on the pull-up bar has the greatest likelihood to be relevant, but as we're already suspecting both of them for having the tape, I don't think it'd be a decision maker. Any of those pieces of evidence would be likely to come up in proving that Nico wasn't the one behind Ace's murder, but this theory is operating under the assumption that Nico is the one who tried to kill Ace, and either Ace or Eden killed Arei. If you want the answers for your own theory, do your own homework. (/lh)

Ace or Eden will get a point for any evidence that I think would better be used to accuse them as being the culprit. Therefore, winning points is actually a bad thing if you want to be innocent. For convenience of "scoring," Eden will be purple because of her shirt and Ace will be pink because of his "maroon" hair... and because I needed red and orange for the likelihood ranking.

UNLIKELY FINAL PIECES OF EVIDENCE

Arei's Body Swinging: This evidence has already been used to establish that Arei was killed in the morning, not at night. Either Ace or Eden could have killed Arei at 7:30 AM, so point to neither of them.

Ace Trying to Assign Himself to Guard Duty: This one is obviously a point for Ace if it were the final piece, but it's such a minor happenstance that I doubt Teruko would think to bring it up as the main thing against him. Like, she could bring it up in general, but I don't think it'd be her crowning jewel. Still, it's a piece of evidence we haven't discussed yet, so credit where credit is due.

Arei's Bound Wrists: Bound by the grippy tape that either of them could have stolen. Point to no one.

Broken Playground Lights: The lights in the Playground are broken, likely from the mechanism being hung up through the ceiling rafters. You could argue that this is a point for Ace's strength, but I don't think throwing a ball that high requires so much strength that Eden couldn't do it, especially if you might be able to use the see-saw to launch it somehow. Point to no one.

Dried Up Puddles: This has nothing to do with either of them. Point to no one.

Carousel Wrapped in Tape: Again, either could have had the tape, so point to no one.

Two Pieces of Rope: Either of them could have taken the rope from Storage and cut it; point to no one.

Food/Utensils/Napkins in Trash: Probably David's dinner. Possibly evidence of Eden and Arei having breakfast together, but that's a stretch. Point to no one.

Cups/Tissues/Palette in Trash: Rose says these were hers. Point to no one.

Incense in Trash: I know thebadjoe had (has?) theories about this being used to conceal the scent of Arei's body being hidden in the Relaxation Room a day earlier than anyone thought, but I find that to be too much of a stretch to accost Eden for it here. I think it's just filler. Point to no one.

Grippy Tape in Trash: I should just stop writing out tape evidence. Point to no one.

Broken Jugs: The killer used jugs of water to make Arei heavier, which broke when she fell. They probably had the fish water in them, but we're not talking about the fish themselves at the moment. I'll say point for Ace because the jugs are probably from the Gym, and we've seen Ace in the Gym far more times than we've seen Eden.

Needle and Black Thread: This evidence... might have to do with the ball of clothes, which we'll get to later. However, if this is relevant to the murder, it's probably from the Dress-Up Room, in which we've seen Eden but never Ace. Point to Eden.

Construction of the Note: After a bit of internal debate, I'm going to call this a point for no one. Why? Well, it's because Eden would have reason to help construct the note whether she was the killer or not. If she is the killer, she might have wanted to guide the discussion that followed its reconstruction, to urge to Rose and Whit that she's innocent and that someone must have framed her. It would also give her reason to come into the Trial already having a handwriting sample on her. However, if Eden is innocent, she also easily could have just wanted to help out. Most importantly, Eden already brought up the note being constructed in her initial defense, so I doubt Teruko would reuse it as the nail in someone's coffin.

Splashing Arei With Water: Either of them could have thought of this and accomplished this. Point to no one.

SOMEWHAT LIKELY FINAL PIECES OF EVIDENCE

Body Discovery Announcement: While this may very well play an important part in solving the case, I don't think it'll be the final smash, so to speak. That's mostly because we already talked about it a lot in determining whether Eden could have done it. In the end, I think we'll either have to come up with a way to justify Eden having cheated the BDA-- by Levi or Arturo having seen it or via see no evil-- or we'll accuse Ace without the BDA being a problem. I guess I have to call this a point for Eden because if the BDA were to be the damning evidence, I think it'd have to be for her. However, in my heart, this is totally evidence supporting Ace being the killer.

Arei's Broken Neck: I'm using this as a stand-in for the strength of the killer, in the sense of lifting Arei up and being able to stop the carousel. This is a point for Ace, because he's a professional athlete and Eden is generally the weakest person in the cast.

Scratches on the Ground: This evidence certainly seems to indicate that there was a struggle at the Playground, but is there anything more to it than that? I'm more willing to believe that Ace could have beaten Arei in a fight, but does that point to Eden because there would've been more of a struggle, or Ace because Eden wouldn't have wanted to fight Arei at all? Ace also normally wears heels (while Eden and Arei don't), which is what Hu cites will naturally scratch up the floor. This evidence is vague enough that I don't think it'll be used to point to either of them, but if it did, I think it's more likely to be Ace.

Ball of Starched Clothes: For starters, I'll share (I think it's) thebadjoe's theory that the ball was adhered together using starch from the Relaxation Room that's sprayed on the plants at night, because I saw some people questioning how the clothes could have been stuck together. Anyways, the ball of clothes itself is definitely a point for Eden, because we saw her in the Dress-Up Room specifically looking for Teruko's clothes. Although, Ace certainly saw Teruko and Hu's new fits, so he could have figured it out for himself.

Actual Acquisition of the Tape: I don't think this will be used as the final piece just because I feel like the narrative is pointing towards the damning evidence relating to Arei's actual murder as opposed to Nico's. However, it's relevant to discuss, so I'll list it here. Although Teruko says that Ace and Eden had equal odds at the tape, on the surface, it really makes much more sense if Eden was the one to take it. Star explained it well here, but I'll add my own recap: in the moments when the tape must have been taken, in between when Nico leaves and when MonoTV kicks everyone out, Ace is recovering from unconsciousness, covered in blood, full of rage, and has all eyes on him. Meanwhile, Eden is scared, sure, but she had a clear moment to actually examine the scene of the crime and is also knocked to the ground-- potentially right next to the tape-- with all her wits about her. While it's not impossible to believe that Ace sleight-of-handed the tape, Eden had a much clearer path to taking it. Point to Eden.

MOST LIKELY FINAL PIECES OF EVIDENCE

Arei's Missing Glove: To my memory, Arei's glove hasn't been brought up in the Trial at all, which is definitely strange, because it must be missing for a reason. If DRDTdev is crafting so much detail into the BDA that the swinging of the body is plot-relevant, there's no way he would have just missed giving Arei her glove. The question is, what was this used for? Those who are familiar with my theories should know that I've never been a fan of dress-up theories, so I'm going to discount that possibility. The thing I thought was the most likely was that the killer donned the glove so that their hands wouldn't get super scratched up from grabbing the grippy tape-d carousel bars, before gleamingtempest reminded everyone that both Eden and Ace already wear gloves. Still, looking at them, Eden's gloves are probably made of something more like cotton while Ace's gloves likely have some sort of tougher grip on the inside. So, Eden would probably be more likely to need something else to protect her hands. Also, given that both of Arei's wrists have marks on them, the glove was likely taken off before her wrists were tied. I can't figure out why Ace would have taken off Arei's glove before restraining her or how he would have gotten Arei to take it off otherwise, while for Eden, at least, I can imagine her asking Arei to take off her glove. Therefore, I'm going to call this one a point for Eden, while also throwing out that it might just be missing if Arei didn't bother putting on her glove for the early morning meetup.

Fish on the Playground: You've heard it from me before, Eden has an alibi through the entire time the fish could have been taken. With seemingly no accomplices (other than possibly Arei) in sight, I don't know how Eden would have gotten her hands on those fish. Meanwhile, Ace had a great opportunity. Point for Ace.

Pieced-Together Note: This evidence is very confusing, because I don't see how/why either of them would have implemented it. For Ace, I wrote that entire theory (I'm not going to link it a third time) about how, based on the information in the note and the layout of the first floor, it really seemed like eavesdropping was impossible, and the person who wrote the note had to be Arturo or Eden. Then there's what thefandomenchantress pointed out about Ace's pedantry making it seem like he wouldn't misspell "responsible" in the note, and that he just doesn't give me the vibes of someone who writes in cursive. By all accounts, it really seems like Ace can't have written that note. But then again, why would Eden have written that note? Okay, bad phrasing; she wrote it to get Arei to come to the Playground. But still, why would she sign it? Or if she were to sign it, to make sure that Arei knew it was her, why include so much detail about what Arturo's secret was? More importantly, why wouldn't Eden have just stuffed the ripped up note into her belt, or her pockets, or her room if it would serve to incriminate her? Put it wherever she put that glove! Hell, why not eat the note, if it's a life or death situation? There's the "reverse psychology" argument, but similar to what Teruko said this episode, it would have been much simpler for Eden to have pretended that Arei came to the Playground for some other reason without the killer planting some sort of note meant to frame her. And it's not like I think Eden is really the type to misspell "responsible" either. So, I'm kind of at a loss. It's such a major piece of evidence that I feel it has to come into play again somehow, but I'm not sure how. I think I'm going to call this one a point for Ace because at the very least I understand why he would want to leave this evidence here, even if I don't know how he created it. For Eden, I don't get why she'd leave it lying around, even if in pieces. You can call it revenge for Eden getting the point on the BDA, if you wish.

So, what are the results? If you add up all the points together, you wind up with 6 points for Ace and 6 points for Eden. Funny. If you tier the points, however, with 1 point for unlikely pieces, 2 points for somewhat likely pieces, and 3 points for the most likely pieces, you get 12 points for Ace and 10 points for Eden. Of course, that's using my tierlist of which pieces of evidence are most likely and on top of that, assigning the BDA and the Note the way that they are (if you flip them it's 11-11), but still. If you're invested in my findings, these are the results.

Needless to say, I hope you can understand why I'm having such a hard time determining which one of them will turn out to be the killer. Although, I must add...

If we're suspecting Ace first before we've done our Debate Scrum, that's not a good look for Eden never being suspected again in this Trial.

Concluding Thoughts

What? A conclusion? I've never done one of these on a dissection before?!!

Yeah, well, this time, I have stuff to say that I couldn't really correlate to one image in particular! And also I ran out of images, so this is what you get!!!

I spent that whole "A Piece of Evidence" section talking about the physical evidence that could support Ace or Eden being Arei's killer, but in it, I really didn't get to talk about the narrative implications of either of them being the killer at all. I know that Narrative Defenses are typically Venus' thing, but I have my thoughts on this, too. Namely, that both of them are riddled with narrative problems for being the killer at this point.

(Note: I don't mean "problems" in the sense that DRDTdev has written anything poorly. What I mean is, my own perception of how the characters are conveyed has me currently raising red flags about how either of their stories will pan out as a killer or how the rest of the story will pan out without them. At the time the answer comes, I have full faith that I'll be satisfied with the results.)

Let's start by looking at Eden, the spotlight character of the end of this episode. After that whole heartfelt speech with the CGs and the tears and the brilliant voice acting and the everything, how could Eden possibly be the killer?! I'm the one who was trying to defend the possibility of her still being the culprit after her little rant last week, and while I could probably do that again with this speech, it just felt so... I dunno, sincere. You can really feel Teruko's reluctance to put her faith in Eden, but her choice to do it anyways. Teruko already showed signs of growth this episode by admitting that she can't always solve mysteries by herself, so could that be a sign that she might come around on the group faster than we initially anticipated? If Eden was the killer, it would crush Teruko so hard. Is there any recovering from that? Can we really prove David right?

On the other hand, Ace is, quite possibly, one of the most intertwined members of the cast. He's probably Levi and Nico's #1 correspondent, and he's up there for Hu as well-- assuming they both survive the chapter, I'm sure their animosity towards each other will only grow in Chapter 3. With Ace just having given up on Levi, having just been the target of Nico's battery and Hu's verbal lashes, can the story really work without him in it at this point? Eden hardly has connections with anyone other than Teruko-- Hu's probably next, but Eden probably ranks, like, fourth on her list after Nico, Ace, and David-- which should make her more expendable. Is it really Ace's time already?

However, despite my complaints, I also think that both of them could be really good options as the killer here-- the two options I prefer over anybody else.

Eden is the character who's most connected with Arei. She plays into the chapter themes of being a good person beautifully. She's a good person, a tragic figure, that killed not because she wanted anybody dead, but presumably because she had something back at home that she had to get back to at all costs. Killing her off would break Teruko-- would break everyone. With the reveal of everyone's secrets, next chapter is going to be a living hell, so why not make that hell worse by removing the biggest conflict de-escalator here? It would force other people to step up to bat. It would give everyone a chance to change, what Eden wanted for Arei most of all. Eden's development isn't an arc, per say, but a fall-- a reminder that even the "most good" people can do the unspeakable.

Meanwhile, Ace has perhaps the most obvious reason to kill someone: he literally almost fucking died himself. Ace's execution would be a reminder of the physical reality of the killing game. That actions have consequences. Even if the guy who started all those fights is dead and gone, you can still feel his presence lingering in the arguments between the others. The guy you underestimated most of all-- not for being kind, but for being dumb-- can send you into a multi-hour spiral in which you accuse even the sweetest of participants. Ace's development isn't an arc, per say, but a fall-- a reminder that reveling in your own distrust and anger might lead you to do the unspeakable.

For someone who's spent so long believing that Eden is the culprit of the chapter, it's really amazing how down-to-the-wire DRDTdev has made the end of the case, where either option feels so believable that it's like you can picture the rope in their hands. Whether my theories, old or new, were right or wrong, I am highly looking forward to watching next week's episode and discussing it with you all. See you on Friday-- just try not to freak out too much before then, alright? (/aff)

#danganronpa despair time #drdt #fanganronpa #drdt spoilers #drdt chapter 2 part 2 spoilers #ace markey #eden tobisa #hu jing #nico hakobyan #teruko tawaki #i'm glad i got to shout out so many people in this one! :D #i try to keep a pretty good pulse on what's happening (on tumblr at least) so i can give credit where credit is due #although i obviously can't read everything lol #i was freaking out so much while watching this episode #bc i felt like i was so right but then all of a sudden so wrong. unless?#also i really wanted to put the meme of “sickos -> ”yes... ha ha... yes...!“ after teruko talking about how the tape points to Eden or Ace #but i already ran out of images so. you'll just have to imagine that one sorry #my theories

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max-nico · 2 years ago

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Sonic has been called an "overprotective big brother" over the years many times. Not his fault that Tails is small, impressionable, and reckless. He's known the kid since he was a toddler, if anyone else had been around that long they would understand too.

Or at least he thought they would, but it seems he was wrong because his own two best friends–Amy and Knuckles–are the ones who call him overprotective the most. This is a huge betrayal on their part, especially when they bring up valid points like Tails' intelligence and skill, because how could he disagree. Sonic has the coolest, most awesome and amazing, little brother ever.

With that being said, Sonic is pretty sure he has the right to interrogate the little fox this time. He's like 90% sure his panic is warranted when he sees his little brother load and cock a very real and deadly gun. Because that kid is 9. He is 9, and he is putting on his watch and his plane gear to leave, and for some reason he needs a weapon wherever he's going. Sonic thinks he has a right to exercise at least a little big brother privilege here, honestly it would be negligent to not at least question him.

"Hey bud. Whatcha up to?"

Tails' ear flicks toward him as he packs a few things into the Tornado. "You remember that hard drive that GUN thought they stole from me, but I actually knew they wanted it so I lowered a few of my defense systems so that they could grab it and leave me alone?"

The answer is no, Sonic has no recollection of that happening at all. Though he supposes it's his own fault for only half listening when Tails was talking. He's really gotta break that habit.

"Sure do." Sonic lies.

"Well, I actually have a little bit of data on there that I forgot to back up to another hard drive since I didn't think I needed it, so I'm going to go get it."

"And you need a weapon for that? Why don't you just ask Shadow?"

Tails finally turns to face Sonic, floating down off the Tornado and in front of Sonic. He stands with his hands on his hips, leaning just a little into his personal space. He takes the chance to absentmindedly scratch behind his little brother's ears, making him push his head into his hand.

"I did, actually. He's the one who told me to bring some weapons, he said he wants to help me improve my stealth techniques."

"Huh, and he didn't even bother to text me about it." Sonic huffs. It comes out playfully, but he won't deny being a little peeved that Shadow didn't message him. Tails is a genius and can make his own decisions, sure, but he's also not even in double digits. Sonic is literally his guardian, he feels like he should've been consulted about this. "I find that quite rude."

Tails smacks Sonic with one of his tails. The fur gets trapped in the small quills on his face, which makes his brother giggle.

"Then how do you find that, hm?"

"I find that the person who did it has another thing coming."

Sonic is so gonna fill his pillows with quills and shaving cream again. The fox constantly complains about not being able to get his quills out of any furniture, but he also got his fur stuck on Sonic's face, he figures this is pretty good retribution.

"Sure I do."

This is what Sonic means. Where did his wholesome brother go? Ignoring the fact that he has been a little menace since they first met, this is obviously team Dark's fault. Their devious ways are corrupting his little brother, who has obviously only learned nice things from him, like dad jokes and spindashing.

Tails has been constantly hanging out with team Dark for a few months now. After spending time with Rouge on Amy's last birthday he seemed to acquire a sort of childish fascination with them. Honestly, Sonic didn't really see it as a bad thing at first. They got Tails to spend more time out of his lab, and they always seemed to take care of him so Sonic had no qualms as long as Tails was having fun.

Then the habits came. Habits that Sonic had managed to completely purge a couple years back. Sure, he's not building bombs willy nilly anymore (as far as he knows anyway), but a few weeks ago Tails showed him the Empire nuclear launch codes just because he could.

Just yesterday they were having a conversation about a grocery store in station square. Amy had apparently told him that the cashier was kind of rude, so he asked if she wanted him to "blow up the entire store". She laughed and said no thanks, but when Sonic just shook his head at him Tails had the audacity to say "he'll make sure there's no one in it", as if that was the problem with what he said.

Sonic will not claim to have clean hands. He will not say he's never killed anybody on purpose or on accident, but is it so much to want to spare his brother from the same fate? Sonic still has nightmares over things like that, and even if his little brother is joking, he just can't find it in himself to laugh.

It's obvious Sonic will have to talk to Shadow and Rouge soon, he would talk to Omega as well but the robot honestly just does whatever he wants. Sonic can respect it. He cannot, however, respect Shadow and Rouge teaching his kid brother bad stuff, like how to get away with murder and other things of the like.

"I'll be back before you know it, Sonic, I swear!"

It's obvious Sonic has just missed most of the one sided conversation Tails was just having with him, he zoned out again. Damn it.

"And I'll have my communicator on me so if anything goes wrong, you'll be the first to know! I'll stay safe, Shadow will be with me."

Tails says that as if it's any comfort to Sonic. He may trust Shadow with his life but he does not trust him with children. He's sure Tails will come out physically unscathed, but mentally? This is going to be a trainwreck.

Sonic sighs. He already knows he won't be able to convince him not to go, at least not in the small timeframe he has, so he just pulls the kid in for a hug instead. "Call me as soon as you're able, okay?"

"I will, promise!"

"And if you're not back and not answering in 24 hours, I'm coming to find you myself."

"Yes, Sonic." Tails says, pulling away.

"And I'll give Shadow a piece of my mind if I have to, you know I will."

"I'm leaving now."

"And so will Knuckles and Amy!"

"Goodbye!"

"Remember what I said about calling!"

"I can't hear you anymore!"

Sonic smiles as Tails starts his plane, the kid will be fine, he knows it. After all, he's sure Shadow and Rouge know the consequences if he's not.

woe, the brothers be upon ye I wrote this in like two sittings and its barely been edited, I'll probably put this on ao3 later after I've looked at it again lol. you're welcome to hit me up in my dms or askbox, but if it's a request I would prefer my ask box lol. Remember you have to be nice to me forever and ever and ever if you decide to talk to me btw

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lilislegacy · 20 days ago

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Considering the fact that Percy is half Greek, do you think he's circumcised or not circumcised? What do you think? (if you think of this at all lol, maybe it's just me) I'm a big history nerd and in history books circumcision is mostly associated with Christian and Muslim cultures (I'm not from the US so I have no idea what the common for the average man is in there), but it is true that in Greece a very low percentage of men actually get circumcised, I know for a fact Greek gods and so included Poseidon does not engage in rites like these, so do you think Sally would have kept respectful to that side of his dad?

So sorry if this is a bit on the unhinged/weird side (you could totally not answer if you don't want to) but I can't avoid asking someone this since I'm veeery curious about what other people think.

So… I’m sure some people would label this a “weird” or “inappropriate” thing to answer, but honestly, I’m in healthcare, and this is just a natural part of new parenthood and biological males' health/well-being — so I’m gonna talk about this from a very objective perspective. This is something a lot of people either have experienced themselves or will eventually have to consider, especially since roughly half the population is biologically male, and a good portion of the other half might end up making this choice if they have a biological son. So I really don’t see a reason to treat it like a taboo topic.

Also just to clarify — I’m strictly talking about fictional Percy from the books, not anyone real.

So, it’s a great question, and honestly, one we can’t answer definitively. On one hand, I could totally see Sally being the kind of mom who wouldn’t want her newborn to go through a painful and unnecessary medical procedure. And since she is so knowledgeable when it comes to Greek history and myth, there’s a solid chance she might honor that culture and not have it done. But on the other hand, she didn’t really have any mortal male figures in her life to consult. And usually, it’s a decision that’s often influenced by the father’s input, since men tend to have more personal insight into it. In the U.S., circumcision is fairly common and is often encouraged (though never forced) by doctors, mainly for hygiene reasons. (Though the validity of that reasoning is controversial.) So I can definitely see her doing some research and deciding on it. But regardless, it can be a very difficult and personal decision. I can see why she wouldn’t, and I can see why she would. You know?

Also… I'm having a thought. If a demigod does get circumcised, would it even... stay? Like, do we think it might somehow reverse itself? Heal back? Regrow? I don’t even know how to phrase this without sounding ridiculous lol, but you get the idea, right? Demigods have accelerated healing. And especially Percy... like imagine Sally goes through with it, and then during his first bath afterwards, it just… grows back LOL?? Idk how it works though. I mean, say Percy’s hand got chopped off, would it grow back in water or would the stump just heal???? 😭

Idk guys maybe I shouldn’t have answered this. I’ve spiraled now. Begging someone else to please say something or reblog and contribute LOL

#anon it’s great question #but there’s also just so much to consider #you know?#wwsd #aka what would sally do #i don’t know 😭#pjo #percy jackson #pjo thoughts #answered ask #lilis unhinged thoughts

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tonguetiedraven · 3 months ago

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Your thoughts on the dynamic between Amaimon and Rin? Do you think it's "valid" for Amaimon to hold a grudge against Rin? Or logical, at the very least?

My thoughts on Amaimon are probably unpopular and at odds with a larger part of the fan community. I don't particularly like him. I can see his motivations and how he's been manipulated, but understanding a character and jiving with them don't always go hand in hand. ┐(´-｀;)┌

To answer your question of if I think Amaimon is valid or logical for holding a grudge against Rin: not in the least. Rin is not the source of any of Amaimon's problems or issues, and Amaimon has been a source for several of Rin's.

I'm normally the first on the 'Rin makes mistakes and please don't erase them' train, but here's one situation where I see very few if any real mistakes.

Rin was unaware of Amaimon's existence before the Amusement Park incident, even if he should have been aware of him as a general demon king. (If there's one thing Rin does not thrive in, it's school and knowing things he should already have learned in said school. We love the ignorant guy for who he is. Umaimon and all.)

He was not aware that Amaimon had essentially been stalking him for a while and waiting. Amaimon gets to know a lot about Rin and Rin knows nothing about him.

Until later on in the manga, Rin remains ignorant of most everything about Amaimon outside of the fact that Amaimon is strong and dangerous. Honestly, god love him, I'm not sure Rin still gets that Amaimon is a Demon King half bound by Shemihaza. He knows he came into his current body during the Blue Night, but I don't know if the whole Shemihaza thing has come up.

Rin fought him in the park after his sword was stolen. Amaimon instigated that situation. He was ordered to, but we the readers are the only ones that really know that. Rin fought him in the forest after Shiemi was stolen and he got backed into a corner. Rin forgot about him until Rin had to fight him in Gehenna at Mephisto's beckoning. Rin then forgot him again until he showed up in school and then he intervened when Amaimon started to harass Shiemi.

When you look at the events from Rin's pov, he's basically just getting pulled into these fights and not initiating them. He hasn't sought out interactions or fights, but he hasn't backed down from them. He might be overly aggressive, but I don't think so. No, in my opinion, if Amaimon is holding a grudge then it's because Amaimon is being illogical about this for a lot of reasons.

There is a BIG power difference between these two for most of the manga. Rin is half sealed and unaware of how to fight or use his flames efficiently. Amaimon has been using his body and fighting with his powers --full and restricted -- for a long time. He knows how to do it and doesn't have the same moral code Rin does to hold him back.

Amaimon is ANCIENT. There's some disagreement on his actual age, but there is a manga volume extra where Amaimon states he's been in his current body for a 1000 years. That's questionable since we know he received his current body in the last 40 years, but who knows what time shenanigans Mephisto has pulled on him. So 40 or a 1000 years old, he's already older than Rin. However, we also know that Amaimon had been in his previous body for at least 400 years. (Shemihaza tells us this when she's pleading for Lucifer to just let the body go and come back later when they've fixed the clone nonsense.) Point being that Amaimon is sooooooo much older than Rin. He should, by all accounts, be more mature than the 15 year old he's been ordered to harass.

Rin is not the source of any of Amaimon's problems. Amaimon, Mephisto, Shemihaza, and Lucifer are the source of Amaimon's problems. Not Rin or Shiemi. They were not around for most of the bad deals he got himself tangled in. He accepted deals from the devil that is Mephisto and got himself endlessly tied up in favors and demands, and he lost a fight after destroying the earth so Shemihaza sealed him to save the earth and cost herself her own form to do it.

Amaimon is a victim in some ways. He is manipulated by Mephisto and often abused quite brutally by him. All because of a body he got from Section Thirteen that put him in Mephisto's debt. (Though there might be another deal in there. If there's one thing Mephisto loves, it's deals.)

He wants to be free but he's bound partially by Shemihaza to stop him from destroying the earth like he wants to. He is also an emotional and impulsive and often childish Demon King who has gotten himself into several of those situations, and to treat him like he's a hapless baby who is being abused by everyone takes away his own hand in his fate.

What Amaimon is, is emotional more than he is logical. He is more aware of the way Gehenna and Assiah work than Rin is, or indeed a fair chunk of our exwire cast is, but that doesn't mean he's more logical than them. Amaimon wants to have fun and he wants to fight and he gets mad if he's stopped in doing that. He's easily insulted and hates not having attention on himself. He's petty. He wants to tear Rin a new one and feels like he's always being stopped and leashed from his goal.

But Rin is not at fault for that. Amaimon can blame him and harass him and hate him for being free in a way Amaimon doesn't think Amaimon can be, but that doesn't validate his actions. Especially since Amaimon's perception of Rin isn't entirely accurate. No more accurate than Rin's always is of Umaimon.

I think their dynamic is fun, and a great change from his relationships with the other Demon Kings, and an interesting way of showing the other ways the kings are immature or not emotionally developed in the same way the humans tend to be than Mephisto and Lucifer. I think he can't quite be trusted yet, and honestly shouldn't be until he makes a choice of his own instead of one he's manipulated or forced into. I don't think we've seen the last of him or the real heart of him quite yet, but I think he's got something coming. Something that will determine more of where he really ends up in this endless war between Mephisto and Lucifer.

But no, I don't think he's valid or logical for holding a grudge against Rin if he is holding one. He's kicked Rin's ass two of the three times they've fought and he's the older and more powerful party for most of that. Rin has friends and allies where Amaimon doesn't seem to, and he's got a cause where Amaimon doesn't seem to.

I think he shows some of what Rin could be if he was to give in fully to his demon side, but I don't know that Amaimon, at least currently, could ever be Rin. I don't think he's there emotionally and I don't think he's able to swallow his pride enough to apologize and reach out and make all this about someone other than himself. At least not yet, and Rin is.

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l4vend3r-hcs-x · 8 months ago

Text

Kny Oneshot - “Don’t follow me out”

Hc: Giyū asked Mitsuri to help him befriend Sanemi

Linking to a post I made HERE

This is a rough chapter draft for my Kny oc Au as filler chapters throughout

After Tanjiro's little pep talk the other day, I think Giyū took that on like a silent challenge for himself, to try and make some friends - or at least improve his relationships a little. And Giyū is a man of his word - if he says he'll do something - he'll do it.

So he committed to what he told Tanjiro, and set out to befriend Sanemi. And it got pretty serious pretty fast. I mean he knew how to make Ohagi, but he didn't know how to do it well. Luckily, he knew someone who did...

WORD COUNT: 3.4k

"WHAT?!" Mitsuri's voice rang out, reverberating on the walls of her estate

"Mits, please.." Giyū groaned, raising one hand to his ear and another to his shaking tea.

"Op- sorry." she grinned awkwardly and flushed "It's just that I didn't exactly expect you to be so keen on... making... friends - WAIT NO THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT I JUST- ohhh I'm not too good at this am I?" she hung her head

"Not really, that's a pretty astute observation though." Giyū shrugged, sipping his tea "Hey, this stuff is pretty good."

"The Master recommended it to me actually! It's form some lovely vendors down by the mansion, down past the pharmacy!"

Slightly uncomfortable silence enveloped them them; Giyū continuing to sip his tea, and Mitsuri quietly brewing another pot at her counter.

He's not speaking at all?!??! Oh this is so painfully quiet!! It's nice to have him here but - IS HE UNCOMFORTABLE TOO??!? OH NO!! I DON'T WANT HIM TO THINK I DON'T WANT HIM HERE!! THIS IS SUCH A BIG STEP AND I DON'T WANT IT TO BE FOR NOTHING-

"Do you think this is a good idea? Honestly - do you?" Giyū suddenly uttered, it was so quiet Mitsuri surely would have missed it completely if the room were not this quiet.

A few moments passed before she realised she was still to give him an answer, spluttering it out while pouring the tea

“Well of course I do!! More friends never hurt anyone did they??”

Giyū's eyes glinted with something akin to confusion "More?? You mean I have friends already?"

W-what?! Mitsuri's thoughts screamed

"Are... we not friends, Tomioka?" she smiled nervously

"Well, Kocho told me that you likely did not want to peruse friendship with someone like myself. She told me that you were more than likely going to become violently ill if I attempted to initiate a relationship higher than acquaintances with you." spoke with a monotonous voice but he nodded as thought her point was valid.

"HUH?!" Mitsuri shrieked "And you BELEIVED her?!!"

"I trust Kocho." He peered up at her innocently

"Don't." she smiled wearily, "Not her advice at least..”

She helped him to his feet and pat him on the back with a little more force than necessary as she began to talk with fiery passion

“Anyhoo!~ Let's teach you how to DO THIS!!" her voice grew fierce with determination as she hauled him over to her countertop

~~~~~~

After a few long silences, a surprising fit of laughter, and two hours of prepping - they were finished. A fresh batch of Ohagi lay on the table in front of them, and beside it was a written recipe that Giyū could follow in future if he so desired.

"Thanks, 'Tsu." Giyū muttered, a gentle smile coming to his face "I really do appreciate all this."

"'Course Giyū!" she slung an arm around him "I just hope that Sanemi likes them! I mean I'm sure he will - he's like addicted to these things. If he didn't train to often I really would worry for his health, you know?"

"Hmm..." Giyū hummed, his mind seemingly elsewhere

"Giyū? You okay?"

"Huh? Oh - yes, I was just thinking how Sabito might react to me giving him these..."

"Sorry?" Mitsuri, who had slipped away from Giyú to start cleaning the mess they had made, suddenly spun to face him "How who might react?"

Giyū's brows furrowed, confused by her seemingly redundant question "...Sanemi??"

"Nono you said Sabito…" Mitsuri smiled confusedly at him "Giyū, who's Sabito?"

She didn't get a response. Instead, she was met with the view of Tomioka clasping tightly to his left arm, a bewildered look in his downcast eyes. is breath began to quicken, his palms and brow growing wet, body beginning to tremble as the Love Hashira drew closer.

"Giyū, are... you alright?" she went to place a hand on his shoulder, but he jolted back from her

"I, uh- I think I should be going.." bowing deeply to her, grabbed the paper on the table and swiftly left the mansion with her following in an anxious pursuit.

"Giyū!! I'm- I'm sorry if I said something wrong!! Please, just come back!!" but Giyū had taken off in full sprint and was well out of view by now - there was no catching him.

"Shoot..." she clamped her teeth down on a bent finger

~~~~~

Sabito?? Why did I say his name?? Surely he doesn't remind me of-

Giyū was running through the seemingly endless forest when the notion dawned on him. It was a truly awful thought, not one that he could ever admit out loud - but the two were all too similar for him not to have noticed eventually.

"Shit." he hissed under his breath as he entered his home, eyes beginning to sting as he began to disrobe; practically tearing off the uniform he was not worthy of owning. Tossing his mismatched jacket to his futon, he sank to the floor once he had put on something more comfortable.

Then once again, that all too familiar sinking feeling consumed him. that heavy weight on his chest returned, his eyes prickling with tears, silent forceful sobs parting from his lips.

He drew his knees to his chest instinctively, reaching for his haori again to bury his face in, the familiar textures only worsening his cries. God, he felt pathetic. It was one word, one name, one stupid, little, insignificant mistake - and it had gotten him this worked up??

He was supposed to be a convincing placeholder for the water pillar, loosing his composure in front of a Hashira was not going to ensure his facade's security. He needed to try harder. Why had he always been so damn emotional?? He was always overreacting to the smallest of things - just like his father had always said to him. Even Urokodaki had alluded to it before...

It was before final selection, and he was so worried that the two of them would not make it home. He was told to remain calm, to stay brave, and not show his fear. He was assured that he would come home safe, practically unharmed. If only he had been assured that Sabito would have been the same…

Sabito... surely that man didn't remind him of Sabito... Sabito was kind... Sabito was gentle... Sabito was determined.. Sabito was fierce Sabito was a fighter... Sanemi was-

"Fuck..." Giyú hissed under his breath, head now in his hands.

Maybe he does... but that's insane...

Giyú raised his head slowly, his unchanging expression still leaking with salted water just as the paper slipped from the inner pocket of his haori. He slipped it into his hands, the smell of the bean paste that stained it lingering in his nose.

As he looked at Mitsuri's tidy, curling writing, his mind began to wander again. She had put such effort into this for him, just to help him… make friends, god this is almost humorous

Giyū took a moment to compose himself before climbing to his feet and setting out for his kitchen. If she was so adamant on helping him, then surely this was something worth trying.

He luckily found the ingredients listed in his cupboards, raiding them to find each component of the recipe. If he was going to do this - he was going to do it well…

He was going to make use of what Sabito left to him… one way or another…

~~~~~

“Then I think that is the last of it!” Uzui smiled, adjusting his eyepatch as their makeshift hashira meeting came to an end.

It wasn’t something they needed to do, but it let them keep some kind of normality to their situation, and was a nice excuse to check in on each other.

“Oh and if anyone bumps into Kocho again…” he stretched his annunciation “Tellll her I still have that thing I- Suma borrowed.” He paused for a moment before swatting a hand dismissively “Sh- She’ll know what I mean.”

And as the hashira filed out of the room - the only remaining pair in the room was, as luck would have it, Sanemi and Giyú.

“Igurooooo” Sanemi groaned through a clenched jaw, hurriedly tying his sandals again “bastard - all I asked was for you to wait for me - but nooo” he hurried his voice to a higher, more effeminate tone “I cAn’t KeEp MiTsUri wAiTiNg~”

Giyuu, sat in the back of the soon, simply observed The wind hashira as he struggled to retie the strings on his footwear. It was actually taking quite a long time, wow.

The entire meeting, Giyú and Sanemi had been stealing glances, ones that were received as snide looks due to Giyú's unfortunate resting face, and thus ignored.

Maybe he just didn’t notice me… Giyú thought to himself.

“Shinazugawa..?” Giyū muttered, rising to his feet

“HOLY- Tomioka??” Sanemi jolted, promptly composing himself again

I literally didn’t even realise he was still here.. Ah shit he probably thinks I’m fucking crazy, talking to myself like that-

“Are you alright?” Giyū muttered “You’re staring.”

“No I’m not, jackass.” Sanemi huffed, a slight tinge of embarrassment reddening his face

“Alright then.” Giyū blinked indifferently "I must be seeing things."

“Do you NEED something?!” Sanemi whined, finishing with his straps

"I uh, I wanted to give you this..." Giyú spoke very gently, his tone void of emotion as he extended a hand with a small offering atop it; a little black bag with a few pieces of Ohagi as its contents.

"Is that..." Sanemi looked at Giyú in disbelief

"Ohagi? Yes. After the other day with Tanjiro - I thought it might be something you'd enjo-"

"Oh for fuck's sake, Tomioka." Sanemi scoffed, a hand resting on his hip "You can drop the act. I get you don't like me, but trying to mock me? That's another thing entirely. Seriously fuck off."

He leant down to grab his satchel, turning on his heel to point an angry finger at the other man "DON'T follow me out."

And with a frustrated huff, Sanemi left the room with a slam of the door, leaving Giyú dumbfounded, and a little offended. What on earth did he mean? Mocking him? That's not what he was doing at all? Maybe it was his face. Kocho had told him he had an unpleasant face on more than one occasion - only looking out for him, of course. But maybe it was something he could take into consideration..?

~~~

"'Guro! 'Tsuri!!" Sanemi yelled, catching up to his friends "You will not believe what just happened."

"Tomioka struck up a conversation with you" Obanai snickered, only to get a swat on the back of the head from Mitsuri "Sorry! Sorry..."

"Yeah... actually..." Sanemi sighed, peering over his shoulder apprehensively, raising a hand to the back of his neck and rubbing anxiously "It was really fucking weird, he fucking tried to give me Ohagi.."

Obanai stopped in his tracks, disgust on his face "You're joking, right??"

Mitsuri's cheeks reddened in worry, her hands flittering before her "I-I thought you liked Ohagi, Sanemi?!"

Sanemi turned to her as they walked, dragging a confused Iguro by the elbow behind him "Oh no I do, it was just the way he said it was so - condescending?"

HOW DID HE MANAGE TO BE CONDESCENDING??! IT'S GOSH DARN OHAGI?! Mitsuri's thoughts ran wild, trying to comprehend what she had just heard

"How did he even know you liked that sugary shit?" Obanai hissed while he shook himself from Sanemi's grasp, slotting himself between him and Mitsuri

Sanemi groaned and cast his eyes skyward "That fucking Kamado boy ratted me out. He was so frustratingly kind while he did it too. GOD I hate the little bastard. I just don't trust it! There is just no way-"

"Someone is actually. That. Nice." Mitsuri and Obanai finished his sentence, memorizing it from the countless times Sanemi had rattled on about the alleged prodigy

"I don't get how you two hate him so much!" Tsuri pouted turning her chin up at them and looking away "Nezuko either! The two of them are just so sweet!!"

Sanemi snickered down at Obanai, mouthing "You sure about this one?"

But his only response was a half-assed punch to the gut and the sound of a blood vessel bursting from his little companion

"It's just why would he got that far out of his way just to piss me off?? I get he's an odd one but even for him this is another level of fuckery."

"Then maybe it wasn't - uh..." Mitsuri gestured to Iguro

"FUCKERY."

"Well yeah, that."

"'Tsuri what the fuck are you talkin' about"

"What is he was trying to be uh nice...?" she smiled awkwardly

Sanemi's jaw dropped despite his mouth remaining shut, Iguro slowly meeting his gaze, and after a few seconds of silence the two erupted in sonorous laughter, causing Mitsuri to throw up her hands in defeat with a huff.

"Ohohoh, 'Tsu that's a good one." Sanemi slapped her shoulder playfully as he struggled for air

"Yeah, Mits. I gotta give it to you, never thought you'd make jokes about that asshole too - WHEW I CAN'T BREATHE." Iguro chimed in, and Kaburamaru even hissed in delight

"I am serious!! What if he want's to be frien-" but she was cut off by another chorus of shouts and howling "UGH. Maybe Tengen's right, he shouldn't give you two the time of day." she pouted, speeding off in a huff from the other men

"Oh no - Mits come back!" Iguro cooed, barely stifling his laughter

"Yeah pinkie! Come tell us how he wants to get closer to- PFFT HAHA IGURO I CAN'T TAKE IT IT'S TOO MUCH!!" The man began to sob with violent laughter, his body shaking

But she was already long gone by the time he had forced out the sentence, and even further than that when the real comedy began.

"Dude she is a fucking riot. I take it back - I think I can look past her benevolence with that demon girl, she is hilarious. 'hE's TrYinG tO Be nicE' OH MY GOD HAHA"

Iguro wiped the ghost of a tear from his eye "You impersonate her far too well"

"A-thank you, I've had practice." he beamed

They continued to walk for a few more minutes, light-hearted jeers audible to everyone in the surrounding area, as well as some information that was probably best not to be discussed in public.

"No but I saw him take it from her as well - deadass. Don't look at me like that!! I am telling you that's what 'Suma' borrowed from her"

Iguro cackled in disbeleif "there is now way you are gonna stand tere and lie, saying he took-"

"I AM NOT LYING!!" he beamed in dismay "WHY WOULD I LIE ABOUT THIS??"

"I DON'T KNOW?! SOME SICK REVENGE FOR THE TIME HE CAUGHT YOU-"

"YOU SAID WE WOULDN'T TALK ABOUT IT." He gasped dramatically, slapping a hand on the shorter man's mouth

“…”

“There is no way you just tried to lick me with that thing in your face-”

"I literally forgot it was there - ew it tastes like Kocho's fuck ass tea she gives us in rehab"

"I'll take your word for it, pal" he giggled, wiping his hand on his front absentmindedly

"You sure? I mean I could be a fucking liar as well??"

"Well then, there's only one way for me to really find out isn't there??" he smirked, jokingly tilting up his friends chin, leaning in before the two of them roared with laughter

"What's so funny?" A third voice then chimed in

"OH MY GOD" Sanemi screamed

"WOAH- T-Tomioka??" Obanai poorly supressed a false gag as he turned to see none other than the water hashira stood behind them, a neutral look on his face, but something akin to determination in his eye

"Yes?" He perked up to look over at him

"What are you doing here?" Sanemi stepped forward, a slight flush to his face "I thought I told you not to follow me out??"

"Dudeee." Obanai sneered seeing the red tinge to his friend's face

"I didn't. I just happened to be passing though here, my estate's just down the way.."

Although this was Tomioka Giyū's natural demeanour, this was a side to him never before seen by his fellow hashira, and thus was met as such.

"Would you quit that??" Iguro hissed, Kaburamaru lashing her tail around his neck

Giyū blinked at Obanai, mildly perplexed by the sudden hostility. "Quit what?" he asked, voice even and unaltering to the tension around them

"You’re... smiling?" Sanemi sneered, stepping up to Obanai’s side, arms crossed defensively. His eyes narrowed, suspicious of the Water Pillar's sudden shift in personality. “What the hell are you playing at?”

Giyū stood before them in silence, both debating what he was going to say, and feeling the pressure of the scrutiny weighing down on him. It wasn't often that he allowed himself to feel anything beyond his solemn duty, and he had to admit, it did feel awfully strange, he was out of proper practice.

“I’m… not playing at anything,” Giyū finally replied, looking back at Sanemi. “I was trying to offer you something I thought you’d enjoy, but clearly I misjudged.”

Sanemi rolled his eyes, his irritation still palpable. “You really expect me to believe that? After all these years of keeping your distance, barely saying a word, and now you want to mock and tease? Give me a break, Tomioka.”

"Yeah," Obanai chimed in, his expression cold. "You're always standing around like you're better than the rest of us. And even if you aren't playing at anything, it's suspicious regardless."

Giyū clenched his fists at his sides, fighting back the sting of their words. He knew his demeanour often came off as distant—aloof, even. But he wasn’t trying to look down on anyone. He was just… bad at expressing himself. And worse at forming connections. Maybe it was too late to change things.

“I am not mocking either of you. I apologise if I have seemed distant, but if you cannot comprehend my efforts, I suppose I'll leave the two of you to... frolic? in peace until I can find a way to help you to. "

Sanemi’s gaze flickered with a confusing blend of emotion. There was no doubt shock in it, a shadow of understanding, and what appeared to be flusterment? But it was gone as quickly as it came. “Whatever.” he muttered, turning away, that red still lingering on his face, possibly even worse than before

Obanai glanced up at Sanemi before fixing Giyū with a hard stare. “Word of advice, Tomioka. You have gotta fix your face. People are going to assume you're being an ass if you say things with that look plastered on."

"You just said you didn't want me smiling."

"Just don't capture the essence of a frost bitten apple, okay?" he groaned sarcastically

“I’ll… keep that in mind,” Giyū muttered with a determined nod.

"Fucking hell he took me seriously" Iguro hissed under his breath

With that, Giyū turned to leave, the tension in the air still thick. But at least he had tried. And that, he thought, was a step in the right direction.

“And, Sanemi? If you change your mind about the Ohagi, you know where to find me.”

Behind him, Obanai leaned toward Sanemi with a low chuckle. “Looks like you’ve got yourself a little admirer. Maybe he’s not as dead inside as we thought, huh?”

Sanemi glowered, swatting Obanai lightly on the shoulder. “Shut up. There’s no way in hell Tomioka’s interested in making good on things. I bet you dinner it was an order from the master."

“Maybe,” Obanai mused. “Or maybe he really does want to befriend you, and you’re just too stubborn to admit it.”

Sanemi’s scowl deepened, but he didn’t respond. He wasn’t sure what bothered him more—the idea that Giyū might actually want to connect with him, or the nagging thought that maybe he wasn’t entirely opposed to the idea, after all when they had first pet sanemi did try to initiate a connection, clearly to no avail.

As Giyū walked away, the faint memory of Sabito drifted back to his mind. Maybe it wasn't such an awful idea to get closer with the two of them - and maybe this is what Sabito would have wanted! But deeper down, the realisation began to dawn on him that - maybe this is what he wanted too..

OKAY I HAVE NO IDEA IF ANYONE READ THIS TO THE END BUT IF YOU DID PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK!! (Please note that this is a rough draft for the chapter that will be posted to my Kny of insert "Have we met before" and the chapter will be called "Don't follow me out." xx) OKAY THANK YOU THAT IS ALL GOODBYE!!

~ Lav xx

#the sillies #headcannon #sanegiyuu #platonic or romantic #kny #ds #kimetsu no yaiba #giyuu tomioka #sanemi shinaguzawa #demon slayer #iguro obanai #mitsuri kanroji #oneshot #fic

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