clumsykleptorocketscientist

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Maybe he developed it after Ben's death? Because he not only needed to brainwash Klaus, Luther, and Diego, but Allison too? So he makes the machine. Plus, maybe when Allison rumors multiple people it gets weaker. Yeah it's a clumsy reason, but hey so was the season.

Reginald is weird. The writers are weird. And the actors are such a shining light on this show it's the only reason I feel so conflicted about season 4.

plot hole that bugs me the most from season 4 has to be that if reginald had a brainwashing machine so powerful he could make all the kids forget that he shot ben point blank in front of them why the hell did he use five year old allison to mindwipe five year old viktor. like if you have a brainwashing machine why would you choose to use a toddler who might remember what you’re making them do on another toddler who might also one day be reminded that this happened. you have a BRAINWASHING MACHINE. it works so well your kids all regurgitate the same line when they remember their BROTHER’S DEATH. one of the most TRAUMATIC AND HORRIFYING AND IMPACTFUL EVENTS OF THEIR LIVES. and you used a toddler and some ativan to keep viktor docile. YOU HAVE. A BRAINWASHING MACHINE.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

So true, if they wanted to do it fine, but I feel like a.) they should've been more hesitant to act on their "feelings" and b.) Lila and Five should've had a conversation after that it was their circumstances that drew them together, and for the sake of Diego, the kids, and themselves honestly, they should leave what they were in the subway station

Idk have a lot of feelings about this, a lot of them conflicting and confusing. Probably a sign this plot should've been left in the drafts.

Steve Blackman’s response to FiveXLila annoys me because it’s not like the two loved each other organically. They loved each other circumstantially because they were traumatized and alone. Had that never happened they wouldn’t have happened. So that whole, “Five deserves a love story” thing makes zero sense because you didn’t give him a love story. You gave him his sister-in-law who was going through a midlife crisis and mad at the husband she never planned on leaving.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Welp.....

i know im wrong on this but the thought is stuck. unless im not wrong (👀)

this to me:

looks like he's getting dressed for a birthday party. the costume just doesn't look very official spaceman to me but then again they are potentially in an apocalypse environment.

so take what you can. I just think maybe he's getting dressed to be spaceman or maybe Claire or Diego/Lila's kid?

just needed to get that out there

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

FOR REAL. How is it the academy's fault for being born and not Reginald's for abusing them? Why does Reginald get a pass yet again this season? Whether he was Viktor's Reginald or not, he deserved to hear Viktor tell him he caused all of this because he was still abusive to the Sparrows. He was drugged and then when he wasn't he went back to being manipulative and abusive.

I'm also a firm believer that if he wasn't abusive, the first and subsequent apocalypses wouldn't have happened, which I think kind of adds to the parallel between the cycle of abuse and cycle of apocalypses. If Reginald taught Viktor control early on, If Reginald used Viktor's medication to help him instead of forcing them to him and brainwashed him into forgetting his powers, If he didn't pin the siblings against each other and If he actually built a good household instead of an abusive one I dont think apocalypse #1 wouldn't have happened and neither would the others in the show.

But no, Reginald doesn't pay the price for abusing the children he willingly brought into the world, his victims do for simply being brought into the world. Its ridiculous.

there was something there with the cycle of abuse/cycle of apocalypses but then they went and said "no, actually, your trauma is your fault for existing and the only way to end the cycle is for you to have never existed in the first place" and then showed the world as a better place without them in it

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

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[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

I've seen a log of comparisons to Allison's character and Viktor's to defend Allison and it has never sat well with me. I think it all boils down to one point: intentions.

In season 1 Viktor was heavily medicated which was at the very least implied that it suppressed his emotions. Then when he is off them he feels these really intense emotions all at once with the addition of powers he has no idea how to control. He is also being manipulated by Leonard in addition to being betrayed and inhumanly locked up by his brother. So, he lashes out, kind of similar to a child, because he was having this kind of experience for the first time. Genuinely, I dont think he wanted an apocalypse and had the rest of the team held back like Allison, it probably would have turned out much differently.

In season 2, Viktor has no memory, and again, may have more control over his powers, but definitely not enough, and not like the others ( which ends up being catastrophic because his power set is A LOT ). He is then tortured, something he is not used to ( at last in that way) and his powers act up causing not an apocalypse, but an explosion attributed to Russians which then causes a war which leads to apocalyptic doom.

Then in season 3 there is the whole paradox kukublitz ( spelling?) thing indirectly caused by Viktor through Harlan. The only reason Harlan had abilities was because Viktor saved his life. A.) Viktor had no idea that saving his life would do that and B.) what was the alternative? Let the kid die?

Like in these cases, it is Viktor's fault, but was it intentional? No. That's why the family is concerned about "fixing his pain." Allison is in pain and she has a right to be, but it hasn't been (unintentionally or not) causing the end of the world so there are bigger problems (unfortunately). But Allison has been in full control of her powers and really abused them in season 3 (I think we all know what happened with Luther). I dunno when Allison was being antagonistic, I understood the pain behind it, but could never understand the blatant intention to make Viktor hurt. I like her character though despite this kind of assassination almost (especially with the Luther shit). Like let's be real, this lash out was wayy overdo (BESIDES the Luther shit, nothing excuses assault). Like Allison is human and its normal to feel frustrated or mad. And I even understand resenting Viktor. I just don't understand that translating to making him hurt so badly especially when there's bigger things going on. I think they could move past this. I think all of them owe an apology to each other and that they all have kind of wronged each other in one way or another to varying degrees.

I could be like completely off the mark here, but I really liked Allison and this was really awful to see happen to her character.

allison’s grief of her daughter leading her to murder viktor’s son-figure and then make him the bad guy for also grieving the loss of a child is genuinely one of the most insane 180 character arcs i’ve seen from a show in years

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Honestly I think this isn't too far off. Like the helmet doesn't seem to have a face shield, so it can't protect from much. Also in the trailer Luther seemed to give off like goofy uncle energy. Either way I'm super excited. Once Luther accepted his himbo status, his character was massively improved and I like him now. Really big step up from season 1.

i know im wrong on this but the thought is stuck. unless im not wrong (👀)

this to me:

looks like he's getting dressed for a birthday party. the costume just doesn't look very official spaceman to me but then again they are potentially in an apocalypse environment.

so take what you can. I just think maybe he's getting dressed to be spaceman or maybe Claire or Diego/Lila's kid?

just needed to get that out there

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Thought Dump

It isn't about me, but isn't it tho?

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Okay, I think I found the truly superior ship...

No but actually Nancy Wheeler being like an expert marksman (or markswoman) at this point is something so special to me. I want to be her.

They asked me to choose between Stancy and Jancy, so I chose ✨Guncy✨

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

No, the thing is, even if it is just bait, it's just a little frustrating, mostly on like Steve's end. I just want him to be happy with the girl (or boy I mean I definitely get the bi vibes) of his dreams. He may think it's Nancy, but it's not, and him focusing on her will be distracting him. Pleease I want them all to be happyy

Y’all… it doesn’t matter what that script says, the filmed canon didn’t happen that way, Nancy was horrified when she found out Steve wanted that future with her… that’s all that matters. Folks need to relax. Nancy loves Jonathan, jancy is endgame… stop falling for the stancy bait being laid out. That’s all it is.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Just wanted to offer you some support on your recent post about Nancy and her plot. It brought out a very special flavor of Steve fan that I hope doesn’t reflect the larger fandom.

Thank you so much honestly. Like, maybe I didn't present my point in the best way, but that was a lot in my opinion. My arguments were misconstrued so heavily I feel. I'm okay with people disagreeing, but to call me silly and saying I made shit up made me angry which is why I went a little crazy with the reblogs. I think there could have been a discussion, but to just outright dismiss me was kind of distasteful. I really didn't want to argue. I like Steve as a character, which is why I feel so strongly. No it doesn't reflect on the larger fandom, I felt like deleting everything because tumblr wasn't fun anymore, but this made me feel so much better.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Last post, I promise, I don't want to bother you, I just want to make it clear that I disagree with like shitting on his dreams. I really do. I disagree who should be at the "focus" but like the dream itself is a good dream to have I think. And if like anyone is saying he would force Nancy, like I agree it's 100% wrong and that was not what he was saying. Anyway I think we can agree to disagree, but I really do like Steve and I think we can agree he is a good character. Not antisteve, and I disagree with being antisteve and twisting his dream, that was not my intention.

Can I just say, whoever Nancy ends up with, be it Jonathan or Steve or neither, it is not what matters the most about her character. HOWEVER, I really don't think she should end up back with Steve. Steve is not a bad guy in the slightest. He is one of the best guys and characters in the show. But, he and Nancy want different things and I think that's really important to focus on, because it's why they don't work. Steve talks about how he had this fantasy with Nancy as a mother to his children, and that's okay that it's what he wants from a partner, but Nancy doesn't. Remember the argument her and Jonathan had all the way back in season 1 where Jonathan mentions her "rebelling" and then settling down with Steve just like her mother (which Ted and Karen Wheeler should NOT be your romantic goals). It's clear she doesn't want to do that. She literally wants to fight the government and the patriarchy, seen especially in season 2 where she wanted to "burn the Hawkins lab to the ground" and season 3 where she wanted to stick it to her douche bag bosses. Jonathan, I don't think he wants that perfect family either. He seems perfectly fine with helping Nancy do all her illegal shit. He's fine with standing on the side, holding the camera and telling her that she's doing amazing sweety. Of course, if Nancy ends up on her own, that's fine, although I LOVE Jancy especially for the dynamic of it's them against the world. I just don't think Steve and Nancy rekindling their romance is the best idea.

Quick side note, I like the idea of Ronance, but I personally love Jancy and, from the few bits I've seen, Robin and Vickie ( Rovickie? Unsure if the ship name).

Edit: Let me just address some things.

A.) I think Jonathan talking about going to the community college and not wanting Nancy to follow him and resent him wasn't saying he could ONLY see the relationship becoming loveless, he was just saying that the plan they had was not working for both of them. That he had to deviate, but it doesn't mean Nancy should and he was afraid she would and inadvertently ruin what they had. In a round bout way it's a preservation move. Going to a college because your girlfriend or boyfriend is, is never a good thing. Now, yes, Jonathan and Nancy's relationship seems strained. I don't want to say loveless, but strained. But Jonathan has been in California for awhile now so that's bound to happen. I do think there is still love there, it's just difficult to navigate and they're still technically teenagers ( in the show). I'm just saying strained, yes, but loveless, no.

B.) In season 2 Jonathan was very much willing to help her burn the lab to the ground. They knew it was dangerous, but they did it anyway and he supported and helped her. Season 3 while, yes, at first Jonathan did not want to rock the boat at first, it was because he needed that job. Think about where he comes from vs. where Nancy comes from. Really in that argument, I see both sides. Sexism bad but also he needs a job for his family. Anyway, he came around in the end, from what I remember, which again is difficult with the money decision. Again sexism is bad but he never dismissed that the bosses were douches, just that they needed to put up with it. Something I'm very sure he changed his mind about.

C.) When I say that Nancy doesn't want that, I mean that Nancy doesn't want to be like the perfect mom Steve's fantasy has her to be. I never meant no family, just no perfect family. That if they did have a family they would teach their children to make waves because " Nobody normal ever accomplished anything meaningful in this world."

D.) as for Steve wanting Nancy in his future and that's all that matters, yeah I may have misread that maybe, but the perfect mom scenario he painted just wasn't something I agree with. But, hey, that's just me.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

All I meant to do was back up my point. I'm not saying the Jancy's future is miserable, I just used it as an example that it didn't seem like it was what Nancy wanted. That's all. Not that she didn't want a family that loved each other, but a family that was more or less conventional. I know that the whole travel part isn't exactly conventional, I just mean conventional in the sense fall in line, accept everything for the way it is. I know I'm getting defensive, but it was all I was trying to say.

Also about your post (I'm pretty sure it was your post) I thought you reblogged me, and because you used "nuclear family" assumed that's what you were talking about. New to tumblr mechanics, still not 100% how it all works. Not trying to start a war, just thought you were calling me sick and saying something I didn't and that was my bad and I apologize.

Can I just say, whoever Nancy ends up with, be it Jonathan or Steve or neither, it is not what matters the most about her character. HOWEVER, I really don't think she should end up back with Steve. Steve is not a bad guy in the slightest. He is one of the best guys and characters in the show. But, he and Nancy want different things and I think that's really important to focus on, because it's why they don't work. Steve talks about how he had this fantasy with Nancy as a mother to his children, and that's okay that it's what he wants from a partner, but Nancy doesn't. Remember the argument her and Jonathan had all the way back in season 1 where Jonathan mentions her "rebelling" and then settling down with Steve just like her mother (which Ted and Karen Wheeler should NOT be your romantic goals). It's clear she doesn't want to do that. She literally wants to fight the government and the patriarchy, seen especially in season 2 where she wanted to "burn the Hawkins lab to the ground" and season 3 where she wanted to stick it to her douche bag bosses. Jonathan, I don't think he wants that perfect family either. He seems perfectly fine with helping Nancy do all her illegal shit. He's fine with standing on the side, holding the camera and telling her that she's doing amazing sweety. Of course, if Nancy ends up on her own, that's fine, although I LOVE Jancy especially for the dynamic of it's them against the world. I just don't think Steve and Nancy rekindling their romance is the best idea.

Quick side note, I like the idea of Ronance, but I personally love Jancy and, from the few bits I've seen, Robin and Vickie ( Rovickie? Unsure if the ship name).

Edit: Let me just address some things.

A.) I think Jonathan talking about going to the community college and not wanting Nancy to follow him and resent him wasn't saying he could ONLY see the relationship becoming loveless, he was just saying that the plan they had was not working for both of them. That he had to deviate, but it doesn't mean Nancy should and he was afraid she would and inadvertently ruin what they had. In a round bout way it's a preservation move. Going to a college because your girlfriend or boyfriend is, is never a good thing. Now, yes, Jonathan and Nancy's relationship seems strained. I don't want to say loveless, but strained. But Jonathan has been in California for awhile now so that's bound to happen. I do think there is still love there, it's just difficult to navigate and they're still technically teenagers ( in the show). I'm just saying strained, yes, but loveless, no.

B.) In season 2 Jonathan was very much willing to help her burn the lab to the ground. They knew it was dangerous, but they did it anyway and he supported and helped her. Season 3 while, yes, at first Jonathan did not want to rock the boat at first, it was because he needed that job. Think about where he comes from vs. where Nancy comes from. Really in that argument, I see both sides. Sexism bad but also he needs a job for his family. Anyway, he came around in the end, from what I remember, which again is difficult with the money decision. Again sexism is bad but he never dismissed that the bosses were douches, just that they needed to put up with it. Something I'm very sure he changed his mind about.

C.) When I say that Nancy doesn't want that, I mean that Nancy doesn't want to be like the perfect mom Steve's fantasy has her to be. I never meant no family, just no perfect family. That if they did have a family they would teach their children to make waves because " Nobody normal ever accomplished anything meaningful in this world."

D.) as for Steve wanting Nancy in his future and that's all that matters, yeah I may have misread that maybe, but the perfect mom scenario he painted just wasn't something I agree with. But, hey, that's just me.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

Never said that. In fact, I said that it was fine that it was what he wanted, but I didn't think Nancy wanted that, not kids but the picturesque like family. I never said it was entrapment. I don't know how I could've made it any clearer. Maybe she does. But I didn't think so. I think having kids is great, but I also think women should choose (not saying steve is forcing her, just to the point that "motherhood is inherently an entrapment" which I never made). I also think that if two people want two different things, it more than likely won't work out. Whatever.

Can I just say, whoever Nancy ends up with, be it Jonathan or Steve or neither, it is not what matters the most about her character. HOWEVER, I really don't think she should end up back with Steve. Steve is not a bad guy in the slightest. He is one of the best guys and characters in the show. But, he and Nancy want different things and I think that's really important to focus on, because it's why they don't work. Steve talks about how he had this fantasy with Nancy as a mother to his children, and that's okay that it's what he wants from a partner, but Nancy doesn't. Remember the argument her and Jonathan had all the way back in season 1 where Jonathan mentions her "rebelling" and then settling down with Steve just like her mother (which Ted and Karen Wheeler should NOT be your romantic goals). It's clear she doesn't want to do that. She literally wants to fight the government and the patriarchy, seen especially in season 2 where she wanted to "burn the Hawkins lab to the ground" and season 3 where she wanted to stick it to her douche bag bosses. Jonathan, I don't think he wants that perfect family either. He seems perfectly fine with helping Nancy do all her illegal shit. He's fine with standing on the side, holding the camera and telling her that she's doing amazing sweety. Of course, if Nancy ends up on her own, that's fine, although I LOVE Jancy especially for the dynamic of it's them against the world. I just don't think Steve and Nancy rekindling their romance is the best idea.

Quick side note, I like the idea of Ronance, but I personally love Jancy and, from the few bits I've seen, Robin and Vickie ( Rovickie? Unsure if the ship name).

Edit: Let me just address some things.

A.) I think Jonathan talking about going to the community college and not wanting Nancy to follow him and resent him wasn't saying he could ONLY see the relationship becoming loveless, he was just saying that the plan they had was not working for both of them. That he had to deviate, but it doesn't mean Nancy should and he was afraid she would and inadvertently ruin what they had. In a round bout way it's a preservation move. Going to a college because your girlfriend or boyfriend is, is never a good thing. Now, yes, Jonathan and Nancy's relationship seems strained. I don't want to say loveless, but strained. But Jonathan has been in California for awhile now so that's bound to happen. I do think there is still love there, it's just difficult to navigate and they're still technically teenagers ( in the show). I'm just saying strained, yes, but loveless, no.

B.) In season 2 Jonathan was very much willing to help her burn the lab to the ground. They knew it was dangerous, but they did it anyway and he supported and helped her. Season 3 while, yes, at first Jonathan did not want to rock the boat at first, it was because he needed that job. Think about where he comes from vs. where Nancy comes from. Really in that argument, I see both sides. Sexism bad but also he needs a job for his family. Anyway, he came around in the end, from what I remember, which again is difficult with the money decision. Again sexism is bad but he never dismissed that the bosses were douches, just that they needed to put up with it. Something I'm very sure he changed his mind about.

C.) When I say that Nancy doesn't want that, I mean that Nancy doesn't want to be like the perfect mom Steve's fantasy has her to be. I never meant no family, just no perfect family. That if they did have a family they would teach their children to make waves because " Nobody normal ever accomplished anything meaningful in this world."

D.) as for Steve wanting Nancy in his future and that's all that matters, yeah I may have misread that maybe, but the perfect mom scenario he painted just wasn't something I agree with. But, hey, that's just me.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

You know, maybe I used the wrong words. Silly me. But my point still stands.

Can I just say, whoever Nancy ends up with, be it Jonathan or Steve or neither, it is not what matters the most about her character. HOWEVER, I really don't think she should end up back with Steve. Steve is not a bad guy in the slightest. He is one of the best guys and characters in the show. But, he and Nancy want different things and I think that's really important to focus on, because it's why they don't work. Steve talks about how he had this fantasy with Nancy as a mother to his children, and that's okay that it's what he wants from a partner, but Nancy doesn't. Remember the argument her and Jonathan had all the way back in season 1 where Jonathan mentions her "rebelling" and then settling down with Steve just like her mother (which Ted and Karen Wheeler should NOT be your romantic goals). It's clear she doesn't want to do that. She literally wants to fight the government and the patriarchy, seen especially in season 2 where she wanted to "burn the Hawkins lab to the ground" and season 3 where she wanted to stick it to her douche bag bosses. Jonathan, I don't think he wants that perfect family either. He seems perfectly fine with helping Nancy do all her illegal shit. He's fine with standing on the side, holding the camera and telling her that she's doing amazing sweety. Of course, if Nancy ends up on her own, that's fine, although I LOVE Jancy especially for the dynamic of it's them against the world. I just don't think Steve and Nancy rekindling their romance is the best idea.

Quick side note, I like the idea of Ronance, but I personally love Jancy and, from the few bits I've seen, Robin and Vickie ( Rovickie? Unsure if the ship name).

Edit: Let me just address some things.

A.) I think Jonathan talking about going to the community college and not wanting Nancy to follow him and resent him wasn't saying he could ONLY see the relationship becoming loveless, he was just saying that the plan they had was not working for both of them. That he had to deviate, but it doesn't mean Nancy should and he was afraid she would and inadvertently ruin what they had. In a round bout way it's a preservation move. Going to a college because your girlfriend or boyfriend is, is never a good thing. Now, yes, Jonathan and Nancy's relationship seems strained. I don't want to say loveless, but strained. But Jonathan has been in California for awhile now so that's bound to happen. I do think there is still love there, it's just difficult to navigate and they're still technically teenagers ( in the show). I'm just saying strained, yes, but loveless, no.

B.) In season 2 Jonathan was very much willing to help her burn the lab to the ground. They knew it was dangerous, but they did it anyway and he supported and helped her. Season 3 while, yes, at first Jonathan did not want to rock the boat at first, it was because he needed that job. Think about where he comes from vs. where Nancy comes from. Really in that argument, I see both sides. Sexism bad but also he needs a job for his family. Anyway, he came around in the end, from what I remember, which again is difficult with the money decision. Again sexism is bad but he never dismissed that the bosses were douches, just that they needed to put up with it. Something I'm very sure he changed his mind about.

C.) When I say that Nancy doesn't want that, I mean that Nancy doesn't want to be like the perfect mom Steve's fantasy has her to be. I never meant no family, just no perfect family. That if they did have a family they would teach their children to make waves because " Nobody normal ever accomplished anything meaningful in this world."

D.) as for Steve wanting Nancy in his future and that's all that matters, yeah I may have misread that maybe, but the perfect mom scenario he painted just wasn't something I agree with. But, hey, that's just me.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

woah I did that too. You can find sources for anything, but all I was saying is that the family he was describing sounded perfect, at least to me so whatever. I said my peace.

Can I just say, whoever Nancy ends up with, be it Jonathan or Steve or neither, it is not what matters the most about her character. HOWEVER, I really don't think she should end up back with Steve. Steve is not a bad guy in the slightest. He is one of the best guys and characters in the show. But, he and Nancy want different things and I think that's really important to focus on, because it's why they don't work. Steve talks about how he had this fantasy with Nancy as a mother to his children, and that's okay that it's what he wants from a partner, but Nancy doesn't. Remember the argument her and Jonathan had all the way back in season 1 where Jonathan mentions her "rebelling" and then settling down with Steve just like her mother (which Ted and Karen Wheeler should NOT be your romantic goals). It's clear she doesn't want to do that. She literally wants to fight the government and the patriarchy, seen especially in season 2 where she wanted to "burn the Hawkins lab to the ground" and season 3 where she wanted to stick it to her douche bag bosses. Jonathan, I don't think he wants that perfect family either. He seems perfectly fine with helping Nancy do all her illegal shit. He's fine with standing on the side, holding the camera and telling her that she's doing amazing sweety. Of course, if Nancy ends up on her own, that's fine, although I LOVE Jancy especially for the dynamic of it's them against the world. I just don't think Steve and Nancy rekindling their romance is the best idea.

Quick side note, I like the idea of Ronance, but I personally love Jancy and, from the few bits I've seen, Robin and Vickie ( Rovickie? Unsure if the ship name).

Edit: Let me just address some things.

A.) I think Jonathan talking about going to the community college and not wanting Nancy to follow him and resent him wasn't saying he could ONLY see the relationship becoming loveless, he was just saying that the plan they had was not working for both of them. That he had to deviate, but it doesn't mean Nancy should and he was afraid she would and inadvertently ruin what they had. In a round bout way it's a preservation move. Going to a college because your girlfriend or boyfriend is, is never a good thing. Now, yes, Jonathan and Nancy's relationship seems strained. I don't want to say loveless, but strained. But Jonathan has been in California for awhile now so that's bound to happen. I do think there is still love there, it's just difficult to navigate and they're still technically teenagers ( in the show). I'm just saying strained, yes, but loveless, no.

B.) In season 2 Jonathan was very much willing to help her burn the lab to the ground. They knew it was dangerous, but they did it anyway and he supported and helped her. Season 3 while, yes, at first Jonathan did not want to rock the boat at first, it was because he needed that job. Think about where he comes from vs. where Nancy comes from. Really in that argument, I see both sides. Sexism bad but also he needs a job for his family. Anyway, he came around in the end, from what I remember, which again is difficult with the money decision. Again sexism is bad but he never dismissed that the bosses were douches, just that they needed to put up with it. Something I'm very sure he changed his mind about.

C.) When I say that Nancy doesn't want that, I mean that Nancy doesn't want to be like the perfect mom Steve's fantasy has her to be. I never meant no family, just no perfect family. That if they did have a family they would teach their children to make waves because " Nobody normal ever accomplished anything meaningful in this world."

D.) as for Steve wanting Nancy in his future and that's all that matters, yeah I may have misread that maybe, but the perfect mom scenario he painted just wasn't something I agree with. But, hey, that's just me.

[clumsykleptorocketscientist]

I love this more than anything else in the world because WOW

can you tell i hate that ship /s