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Joker Needs To Die

Back again with another DC-centric post! This time we'll be continuing my rambling about the Joker and Batman.

Spoilers are down below for a number of Batman stories, including the first issue of Hush 2.

So, I was reading the first issue of Hush 2 and watched as the Joker was taken by the Silence to Thomas Elliot and tortured.

I am sure this was very cathartic for you Jason Todd and Barbara Gordon fans. Even I have to admit that there's a little bit of sweetness in the Joker getting a little bit of torture for all the stuff he's done. Regardless, Hush ends up torturing him until Batman shows back up and finds him.

So the choice is simple. Whether it'd be Joker or Hush, personally, I'm leaning toward Joker since he seems to be the one speaking in the recording, but at the end of the day, Batman is given the chance to let his nemesis die. He doesn't have to bloody his hands; Hush has already done all the dirty work, and now all he has to do is let the Joker die.

Some believe that the Joker is already dead here, but given the cover of the next issue,

And the synopsis: "H2SH WITH JEPH LOEB AND JIM LEE CONTINUES! After the shocking events of the last issue, Batman must make the hardest decision of his life! Guest-starring Nightwing, Batgirl, and Red Hood!"

I think the Joker is definitely still alive here.

For me, I have the theory that both Joker and Hush orchestrated all of this, with Hush using the Silence to incapacitate the Joker so he doesn't pull any wild card moves, all for this little test to push Batman since we all know he's going to save the Joker. But given the cover of the next issue, I also believe that Jason will show up and he and Batman will have a conflict where the ex-Robin will try to stop his old mentor and father figure from saving the clown prince of crime since by all means, this seems to be as good a chance as any to finally finish things.

They can finally wash their hands of the freak. They don't even have to do anything, and the Joker will die all on his own. But with Batman being Batman, he still tries to save the clown since even though the Caped Crusader probably hates the clown prince of crime more than anyone else, to him, leaving Joker to die is still murder. They'll probably fight, with Batman agonizing over the chance to finally let Joker die, which is one of the reasons why I believe the Joker himself is a part of this whole plan. But eventually, the time will come where we'll be able to finally see if the clown bites it.

Now, let's get to the point of this post, where I believe that,

THE JOKER SHOULD DIE!!!!

Over the past few decades, I feel like we've been going nowhere with the relationship between Batman and the Joker. Heck, I even made a separate post about it. But to go into further detail, I want to ask the question of what was the most significant thing Joker has done in the past 20 or so years of comic history.

In 1988, we got the Killing Joke, where the Joker was at his absolute worst. Paralyzing Barbara and traumatizing Jim, he was an utter monster. I do want to make a separate post about the story and how we finally got a glimpse at the man behind the clown makeup and saw an actual calm interaction between him and the Bat.

Funnily enough, 1988 was also the year the Death in the Family story came out with Joker killing Jason. It's probably one of the most important Batman stories to come out, right alongside the Killing Joke. But to ask another question, when's the last time we've gotten a story like that?

Now, I might not be as big of a Joker fan as I think I am because there could be stories like those out there that are just as extreme as those, but from what I've seen, only those two are the real stand-out stories, right alongside Knightfall.

Sure, we've had stories like Death of the Family, where the Joker cuts his face off. But that time around, he more or less targeted the Bat-family rather than Batman directly and instead damages his relationships with the rest of the family. After that, we had Endgame, where both Batman and Joker die in their 'final' battle.

From there, the most notable Joker story after that was Joker War, where he takes all of Batman's money and uses it against him. In the end, this left the Caped Crusader broke and without a lot of his resources. After that, we then have the two Joker comics, which were fun, especially the first, where we see Jim Gordon finally manage to find some peace with his experiences with the Joker.

The second Joker story was also fun, but it was pretty confusing with the whole 2 Joker's angle. But at the end, when the Joker emerges from the water and he's asked which one he is between the two, I love how he simply said that he was the Joker. That it didn't matter who he was, only that he kept the people of Gotham smiling at the end of the day.

Dark Prisons then came and went, and we got a taste of the Joker's first year after falling into the vat of acid. I'm personally conflicted about the story, but I think it was fine, and it was also pretty fun to see the Joker finally come into his own as the clown prince of crime.

Now, here we are, Hush 2 and Joker has to be saved by Batman. Whether or not he does it is still up in the air. But I'm personally leaning toward him surviving. I could be wrong, however.

But throughout all of these stories, prior to Hush 2 and after the Killing Joke and Death in the Family fiasco, what impact has Joker really made in that time?

Sure, he hurt the relationship between Batman and his family and even took all his money. But the thing about comics is that it all has to return to the status quo at the end of the day. Batman reformed his relationships with his family, something he had to do a couple of times, thanks to people like Bane, Thomas Wayne Batman, and Zur-En-Arrh, and now more recently, he's gotten his money back and is back to living in a mansion.

All in all, besides Alfred being gone, which was something that was due to Bane and Thomas Wayne Batman, nothing has changed since the 1980s when Death in the Family and Killing Joke came out. Sure, Jason might be back now, but Under the Red Hood was more or less his story rather than the Joker's.

All of this to say that the Joker hasn't really done anything all that noteworthy in that time besides a few instances where he does some messed up or funny stuff. This leads me to my final point in how the Joker should die for his relationship with Batman to progress.

For those who are in the know about the deeper parts of the relationship between Batman and Joker, you know that the obsession the Joker has with the Caped Crusader goes both ways. There's a cover for Death of the Family that fits this perfectly.

Joker is on Batman's mind as much as Batman is on Joker's. The relationship between the two of them is equal parts hate, love, and obsession.

So, having the Joker kick the bucket is to remove a relationship that has been a part of Batman's life since he first put on the cowl. Some might say he wouldn't care, but with the obsene amount of times he's gone out of his way to save the Joker's life whether it'd be throwing him into the Lazerus pit to bring him back to life, or deciding to help him while he was bleeding out instead of chasing a criminal it's clear that no matter what he might try to believe, Batman cares to an extent for the Joker.

This would then give Batman the chance to feel something different about his role as Gotham's protector. Sure, people like Bane or the Penguin might be bad, but the Joker is supposed to be the worst out of all of them. He has to be the one to push Batman to his absolute limits, whether it'd be copywriting fish or beating one of his sidekicks to death. The Joker's unpredictability is what made him such a fearsome foe for the level-headed and strategic-minded person that Batman is.

This is a relationship that has been 80+ years in the making, and there hasn't been any real change between the two of them beyond the Joker doing something and Batman having to come and stop him. And sure, there's something to that. Having this eternal relationship where it'll continue for more decades to come.

But I think now more than ever we need a flagpole moment, similar to the Killing Joke and Death in the Family. And I think the best we could get is for Joker to finally die and just let Batman and the rest of the DC world sit on that.

Imagine Harley Quinn feeling a mix of relief and sadness. Relief that the Joker was now gone, but still having that part of herself that loves him even after everything he did to her grieve after his death. Or maybe Jason realized that even after the Joker's death, he's still angry and bitter, and that fire inside him isn't something necessarily attached to the Joker, and he has to work through it some other way.

But I think the most important effect would be on Batman himself. He'd have to change a few things about how he went after crime since the worst of the worst in the form of the Joker is finally gone. Of course, he won't stay gone forever.

The Joker is still one of DC's main cash cows, and I feel like they wouldn't want to keep him shelved for too long. But when he does come back, Batman will once again have to change along with the Joker since they've finally seen what happens when he dies and the peace and change that comes from such a thing.

Perhaps Batman will kill the Joker again to keep the peace of mind he once had when he was gone. Or maybe the Joker will be more vicious and violent than ever before since he's gotten a taste for death and is no longer afraid of it, if he ever was. In any case, the Joker dying would undoubtedly shift the dynamic between him and Batman into new directions that could really spark some new life and excitement between the two of them.

That's why I'm excited to see this new Joker in the Absolute universe and watch how their relationship grows just as close as it is in the main DC universe. But for what we're getting now in the main continuity, it's always just been the same stuff. I think the Joker himself put it best when he said in the Batman Arkham Knight DLC A Matter of Family when he's getting ready to fire a rocket at Batgirl and Robin,

"Oh, see. It used to be simple. I blow things up. He shows up. Start all over again."

But for the relationship between Batman and Joker to continue surviving for as long as it has and stand the test of time, there needs to be a change to that dynamic. We've had the age of Batman stopping the Joker; now, we need something new.

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How I would take the relationship between Batman and the Joker

This is just something that I've had in my veins for a while now and needed to get it out there so I wouldn't go CRAZY.

Howdy Doody!~

For a long time, I've been trying to figure out what would be an interesting direction for Batman and the Joker's relationship. One of the directions that I like the most is for Batman to finally kill the Joker.

Now, I know DC would never go for this because the Joker is one of their main cash cows. But I think what it could end up being is a spiritual successor to Knightfall. Where instead of Batman being broken physically and partially mentally, I think his killing the Joker would break him spiritually and shake him to his very core regarding why he became a hero in the first place.

There are countless ways that it could go down. But if I were to write the story, I think I would have the Joker trap Batman in some sort of labyrinth underground where he's completely cut off from the rest of the family. Joker would obviously put Batman through the wringer, torturing him and forcing him to go through deadly trials and tribulations. Overall, standard stuff when it comes to both of them. However, while Batman is trapped, the Joker plays him videos and footage of Gotham being destroyed, forcing Batman to watch as he destroys his city, kills his family, and ruins everything while he's still trapped.

It pushes Batman to his breaking point as he sees countless people being murdered, butchered, and torn apart. And it's all to the sound of Joker's constant mocking as he blames Batman for everything since he never decided to finish things and just kill him. At the same time, he's also throwing him through death trap after death trap before Batman finally gets to him.

From there, it's the standard beat down. However, this time, it's different. It isn't Batman fighting the Joker anymore; it's the man, Bruce Wayne, who's beating the clown prince of crime to death. And in a moment of pure and utter hate on Bruce's part, he finally does it. He kills the Joker. For me personally, I never see him doing it with a gun since he's so opposed to guns. But when he does it, Bruce finally manages to escape, only to find that Gotham is fine.

Turns out that all the footage he showed Batman was fake and that the Joker finally managed to get Batman to kill him without even having to kill anyone.

From there, word began to spread rather quickly that Batman killed the Joker, and it completely changed the dynamic between Batman and his villains. They're all now more cautious around him since it's been proven that if pushed far enough, Batman IS capable of killing. But for the most part, the entire world celebrates along with most of the hero community. However, for Batman himself, he hates it, he hates it all.

He hates that he's being celebrated for breaking his one rule. He hates that he's now one of the world's most beloved heroes for finally killing the Joker. He hates how no government or law enforcement official wants to bring him in. Most of all, he hates how good he feels afterward, like he can finally breathe easy and not have to worry about the clown prince of crime. And so, for a time, he hangs up his cowl and retires. He sees himself as tainted after taking a life, even if that life was the Joker's. But through his support system, people like Superman, Nightwing, and even Jason help Batman see that he can still be a hero even if he broke his one and only rule.

It takes time, of course. When he puts the cowl back on, he drifts between being too brutal and being too soft. He's scared that he'll end up killing again since he's done it once before, but at the same time, he doesn't want another Joker. But after a while, he finds his right footing and becomes a brighter hero. Not on the same level as someone like Superman or Nightwing, but for the first time in almost 30 years of crime fighting, he has hope that his mission will finally come to an end.

From here, he fights other villains, with perhaps someone like Bane stepping up to the mantle to become Batman's greatest foe now that Joker is out of the way. But for the most part, things return to some form of normalcy. Even then, the death of the Joker still weighs heavily on Batman's mind, but not as much as before.

But life goes on. Villains come and go. Gotham sees destruction come its way time and time again. However, one day, via some villain, whether it'd be in a Justice League book or a Batman title, Batman ends up in Hell. And who's there to greet him at those Hellish gates? Well, it's none other than the Joker.

Turns out that, after everything the Joker had done throughout his time as a villain, he's earned himself a special spot in the underworld as one of, if not THE most evil human being out there.

But for Batman, he now has to traverse Hell and find a way out while Joker tags along and tries to make his journey all the more painful as he taunts him about the fact that he finally managed to make him break his one rule. By the end of it all, Batman manages to escape Hell after managing to trick the Devil himself. In response, the Devil then revives the Joker as a demon whose sole purpose is to torment Batman.

However, unlike before, the Joker can't die since he'll just be resurrected, thanks to the Devil. This allows Batman to be more brutal than ever with the Joker; whether it'd be chopping him up into tiny pieces or burying him alive on the moon, there really isn't a limit to what Batman will do. But every once in a while, the Joker comes back, and Batman has to stop him once again. Although, thanks to the Joker now being part demon, he's able to pull more tricks that push Batman further than ever before.

Just off the top of my head, I see Joker maybe possessing people Batman cares about, creating new strains of Joker toxin that transform people into horrifying laughing monsters, and maybe even shapeshifting into new forms so that he can become an ally to Batman, only to stab him in the back.

To add onto this, Batman would ONLY get that brutal with the Joker since he can now take it.

I don't know if any of this makes sense or if it's any good. If anything, at the very least, I think it'd make a good Elseworld story, but beyond that, I'll leave it up to you.

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DELTARUNE CHAPTER 2 SPOILERS

GIF VERSION OF THE DANCE SCENE WITH THE SWEET CAP N' CAKES

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“We used to work the sound in this town.” “… until Queen came around.” “(K_K is short for cakes. )”

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“Okay - Seems Like The Green One Actually CAN Fight back. Just Lock Them All Up [together] And Force Them To Listen To Timmy Trumpet Without The Bass! That Seems Like A Valid [And Fittingly Silly] Punishment.” 

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How can anyone hate Junji Ito 

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Jason & Friends

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“Okay - Seems Like The Green One Actually CAN Fight back. Just Lock Them All Up [together] And Force Them To Listen To Timmy Trumpet Without The Bass! That Seems Like A Valid [And Fittingly Silly] Punishment.” 

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preferences

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I don't understand how people are into My Hero Academia while also completely failing to identify and understand Horikoshi's love and appreciation for Comics and American Culture as a whole.

My Hero Academia was born from Horikoshi's love of Western Comics and from American Culture, you can see a lot of that inspiration in characters like Sero, for instance, who Horikoshi said he deliberately based on Spiderman.

My Hero Academia is a Japanese series, obviously and undoubtedly, but it's also a love letter to American Comics. It's an appreciation that perfectly highlights the relationship between Japanese and American Media. Just like how people in America really like Japanese Media and Culture, a lot of people in Japan really like American Media and Culture.

Twitter being Twitter, people have already accused Horikoshi of "Celebrating American Imperialism" with the introduction of the Number 1 American Hero: Stars and Stripes, which is just as ridiculous as it sounds.

Stars and Stripes is All Might's student. One of All Might's character traits is that he really really likes America. He lived there for years before finally returning to Japan. Is it really that surprising that his student, born and raised in America, is going to take after him in his appreciation, but also in costume design?

That, and there have been a lot of American flag styled Heroes in Comics, namely Captain America. As mentioned above, Horikoshi likes taking inspiration from pre-existing Heroes, it's not a surprising design choice (especially since it's sort of a running gag in Anime that the American character is usually very stereotypically American.)

Having a character from America, designed after America, and/or proud of being American doesn't make that character inherently a bad person or a poorly written character, and it sure as hell doesn't mean the character or the author of said character supports any of the awful shit America has done in its past (or is currently doing, for that matter.)

We've hardly even met Stars and Stripes, I think it's unfair to assume her character just because of her name and costume design or her appreciation for her country. Liking America or American things doesn't automatically make someone a Villain.

[blessedgirthma]

hc that kris can only emote with their eyes (which the player can’t see)

also, it’s real fucked up how we show Kris at the end of snowgrave that no matter how much we let them call out and scream, we’re the ones holding power to ACT not them