#you are in THE women and queers hobby space!!!!!!!!!!!

[theophagie-remade]

Not sure whether this can be considered a hot take or whatever but something that I really dislike is that there really doesn't seem to be a distinction between fanbase and fandom in many people's minds anymore, which is really grating because you'll see comments from self proclaimed fandom members like "I like [thing] but I'm not one of those crazies who care about ships lol, weirdos 🤪". Because shipping is one of the core elements of fandom, so if you really can't stand it that much maybe the problem lays within the fact that you entered a community that does not fit you

(Which isn't to say that you have to ship something, anything, to be a fandom member, but accepting the existence of shipping as a common practice should be the minimum lol)

[r3starttt]

Young reader x Caitlyn where reader is an influencer on TikTok / YouTuber and post a lot of soft lunch of Caitlyn ( we never see her face , like js their dates , Caitlyn’s Hand or her back )

And her fans quickly recognize Caitlyn ( how ? Idk crazy fans and the signature colour of Caitlyn’s hair )

The fans are going absolutely CRAZYYY over it.

Imagine this: you start off small, just making fun TikToks here and there. What begins as a casual hobby spirals into something bigger—you’re on YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, maybe even Twitch. Before long, you’re gaining traction, invited onto podcasts, and suddenly, every chance you get, you’re talking about Caitlyn. She’s the actress of the moment, starring in countless queer films, and you’re just like everyone else, hopelessly captivated by her.

It escalates. People tag you in edits of her, and you lean into it, making videos gushing over her because, let’s be real, there’s no way she’ll ever see them. After all, she has social media, but it’s handled by her team. She’s older, more private, and has never publicly talked about being into women. Meanwhile, you’re just a silly influencer with a crush on the unattainable. Or so you think.

One day, you’re invited to the premiere of her latest movie - your dream come true. You get to interview her. When it’s your turn, she surprises you, leaning in with a knowing look you know: “You’re the one who makes those videos, right?” She catches you off guard, and you’re stumbling over apologies. But then she replies again, casually, “I like your content. I’ve been following you for a while."

The internet erupts. Everyone’s talking about how Caitlyn actually knows who you are, how she seemed genuinely charmed by you during the interview. It’s the kind of thing people dream about. But for Caitlyn, it’s more calculated. She’s smart, too smart to let a relationship—especially her first public one—be exposed so easily. Later that night, she sends someone from her team to bring you to the afterparty. It’s discreet, casual, but enough.

It starts with Instagram messages, small conversations that grow into something more. Despite the walls she’s built around her life, you’re charming enough to break through. She’s giggling at your jokes, brushing her hair behind her ear as if she’s not one of the most sought-after actresses in the world. Eventually, she can’t resist, and she asks you out—not for a flashy date, but something quiet and thoughtful, just the two of you.

Caitlyn is not one to flaunt her wealth, but she’s meticulous, researching your likes and interests, piecing together the perfect date. Over time, the connection deepens. Phone calls turn into late-night visits at each other’s homes, and one night, under the soft hum of background music, she leans in, her hands cupping your face as she kisses you. It’s natural.

As the relationship blossoms, you respect her desire for privacy. You post subtle hints on social media—coffee cups at her favorite spot, a new brand of makeup you both love, glimpses of the places you go together. Caitlyn plays along, occasionally posting from the same locations, but always with enough time and space to keep people guessing.

The fans start noticing the small details: her dogs in the background of your Instagram stories, your sweater draped over her shoulders, matching jewelry. It’s a slow burn, a puzzle people piece together over months until the connection is undeniable.

And then, at one of her premieres, it becomes official. You’re by her side, her arm around you, a soft kiss shared in front of the cameras. The world explodes—some people are thrilled, calling it a dream come true. Others doubt it’ll work, citing the differences in your careers and lives. But you don’t care. Caitlyn starts mentioning you in interviews, and every time she does, the audience melts at how deeply she seems to care for you.

#needthat

[dungeonmastersconsortium]

Thinking this morning about the twitter thread where someone said "we need more queer spaces that don't revolve around alcohol and aren't super loud, it's impossible to make new friends" and when people pointed out that it's actually really possible to make new adult friends, and suggested a local movie night, they said they wanted something more quiet. And when someone suggested that there are actually loads of shared communities around various hobbies that are great ways to meet friends and learn to do something new, they said "You people are misunderstanding me, I don't want to spend money, I don't want it to be loud, I don't want to be around alcohol, I don't want to go to burlesque or drag shows, and I don't want to have to learn a new hobby, I just want to meet new people"

Like, what the fuck did they think community is? How the fuck do you propose meeting people? I'm all for inclusive resources but at some point, as an adult, you have to realize that if you want certain things in your life to change, you have to be the one to make changes. If you want to go out and make more friends, you have to be willing to GO OUT AND MAKE MORE FRIENDS. You have to go where the people currently are.

You have to learn a new hobby and go play card games with the trans women and enbies, or put up with some noise and go watch films, or go play pool in the dive bar with the dykes in the dark back corner, or SOMETHING. But at some point you have to say, "the problem is my unwillingness to try to adapt to fit into a community, rather than expect a whole community to be built on me without any effort from me."

Queer spaces that already do exist have a hard enough time staying open, you can't expect MORE and MORE to be made unless YOU want to go make one and see for yourself how hard it is.

If you want a community, you need to be willing to participate in SOMETHING.

[ranticore]

Now that you mentioned it in the tags; I really enjoyed how you did the queerness of characters in-text and I saw you mentioned more than once before how they consider/call themselves gay or anything and I was wondering if you'd be willing to elaborate on that (in Ironwall, MVF etc), but more from a writing standpoint than a worldbuilding one. Hope Im making sense lol

i looked up the invention of the word 'homosexuality' and found that it was invented 6 years after stbh is set

ghksjdg i mean there's more to it than that but it meant that my language was constrained, which also means that the characters' language is constrained as well. i have to think about ways i want this to come across to the reader. at the time i was thinking about how the basic concept of "btw this character is not straight/cis" is communicated in some of the stories i'd read, and one that stood out to me was a comic i read in a fully fantasy setting where the writer brought the narrative to a juddering halt to explain exactly how gender & sexuality are handled by the people here. as in the characters essentially turn to the camera and give the main character a lecture. i really didn't like it, the author's hand was too visible behind the panels.

but i took it as a learning exercise as well on what i didn't want to do. i didn't like the neon signs pointing at any instance of non-heteronormativity and i also don't like stories that market themselves based on the characters' gender identities, particularly stories which do not involve a coming-of-age/character learns to discover themselves narrative. it's a book about two trans men but it's not a book about being trans. that's none of the reader's business, that's hidden from you (particularly in islin's case, intentionally). i never wanted to foster a sense of voyeurism towards trans people particularly knowing that most readers, statistically, will not be trans. crucially the characters are stealth to literally everybody but like 3 people. their transition is done.

i never wanted a coming out moment, or an "i'm here i'm queer" moment either - not even because Society in the setting just because i don't like those things. to completely normalise it in the narrative between these characters is the goal - almost to the point of never even pointing it out at all except when it has to be. the vibe i wanted was like... hanging out in not necessarily a gay space, but with gay people, talking about random other stuff. i didn't even like the One coming out scene i had to put in (senca being like "i only fuck women" to bowman so that he would stop hitting on her)

so when writing i had a pretty good idea of what i didn't want. for the setting i had some strict rules to follow as well. characters would not identify as gay or bisexual or even some fantasy equivalent because those were not identities, they were acts. and heterosexuality wasn't an identity either, it wasn't even "the natural way of things", it was the means by which wealth could transfer between generations. if you do not marry, then you are not conforming to your gender. the four unmarriagable men in mvf are all denied entry to normative manhood for many de-gendering factors (disability, unmanly hobbies, vow of chastity, etc) but the culmination of those factors is that they can't marry, which is the whole POINT of being a man. three of them are entirely denied generational wealth - forcing them into poverty (it's not a coincidence that gay people are overrepresented in the criminal organisation)

from a writing standpoint this leaves them in a grey zone. when writing i tried out different language to see if it read nice to me (19th century equivalents to 'boyfriend' etc) and they all rang quite false, because outside of the whole 'can we put a label on something that doesn't officially exist in society' thing, the characters themselves are not the types of people to think that way. Bowman was dating Léa but he was never dating Félix. you can't date another man. the only people who date men are women, and Bowman is not a woman. therefore he is not dating Félix. to give just one example. ultimately for the language used i found that just leaving it as-is worked the best for me.

so after working all that out i wrote tha thing and then wanted to kind of explore - at what point does it become romantic? is there an actual border between romantic and platonic when you've kind of already fallen between the cracks in society into the grey zone where nothing is defined because it doesn't affirm the power of the ruling class. and in these particular friendships, where they've already been all things to one another, they've already done everything together, good or bad, does adding 'romantic love' to that list of things wildly recontextualise it retroactively or does anything change at all? just like the ending reveal of stbh says: who actually is the guy we've been thinking of as 'félix ortega' ? does it recontextualise everything we've just read? no, right? (or does it?)

the usual 'will-they-won't-they' romance plot isn't a factor in the book, we already know they will, they have, they won't, and they refuse to, all at once.

(jean-baptiste thinks of himself as an invert because he is Learned and has read some fascinating journal articles about cutting-edge sexology, and his relation to his sexuality is very very different. it's not something he shares with his closest friends in spaces without scrutiny; his entire life is scrutinised and his social system is predicated on marriage. like i think i said in the book, probably, i don't remember: he and renard are two guys clinging to the same life raft. they hate each other! but if you push the other guy off the life raft, then you're just one guy alone at sea, forever.)

[olderthannetfic]

"Why I don't write F/F" thread proceeded just as unproductively as I expected. It wasn't about moralizing about the women not writing F/F, it was a question about why personal reasons for avoiding a configuration aren't reflected in opposite directions by other groups. Unlike race, gender has an almost 50/50 split, there's a scale to the proportions not there for other types of identity category. "The femslash police suck" is a factor I can understand. But why wouldn't "personal reasons I just don't feel it towards this configuration" end up an even distribution across the population? The expectation for women to write about women isn't a moral rule, it's that if you allow the logic "men in control of stories write about men (and that's why more mainstream stories center men)", then the flip side is, well, why people clamor for more women behind the camera and in the writers' room. Either accept the logic for both sides or challenge it for both sides. Instead we have the worst of both worlds, we accept it for one side and challenge it for the other. Where's the parallel universe where this imbalance somehow resulted in a different quadrant being the smallest proportion of ships?

--

Why wouldn't "personal reasons" be even? Because the kinds of issues people face based on their demographic aren't.

But I think the larger factor is how socialization affects choice of hobbies and volunteer efforts. Cis men and cis women, on average, go in for different flavors. The dudes tend to be more bothered by the idea of "not getting anything back" for what feels like work. When they do do unpaid labor, it's often the kind that accrues glory and career prospects rather than less showy social ties. Open source coding projects where they can be important, yes. Writing fanfic, no.

Looking up any analysis of volunteering and unpaid work that makes such-and-such a part of society function will get you a lot of discussion of this gendered difference. It's pervasive.

Of course, this is just a broad trend. Plenty of guys do write fanfic, and when they dominate a fanfic space, we see tons of fic focused on the female characters they find attractive, including f/f fic.

And if you're asking about cis gay men specifically... well... again, gendered socialization means that the issues faced by cis lesbians and cis gay men are not equivalent. The reasons and ways that people employ allegory to talk about things "too close to home" will likewise not be exactly the same. Traditional US gay male culture goes in for drag and for an obsession with Hollywood divas and The Golden Girls. Plenty is being mediated through female personas; it's just not translating into fanfic specifically. But most people making "Leave the fujoshi alone" arguments are not thinking about cis gays: they're thinking about people in messier identity categories.

The biggest difference is not behavior but simply that cis men are a small minority on FFN, AO3, and Wattpad, the three big fanfic archives. (Some ancient FFN research found that it was 78% female, and that's the archive known for having more men!) The places with more cis guys are much smaller and don't get talked about as much by most fandom history and fandom meta types from the AO3 side of things.

The reason cis men's taste in favorite characters isn't being "pushed back against" isn't a double standard: it's because:

Cis men simply aren't that relevant to site-wide trends on AO3

and

2. The reverse pattern does happen all the time with vanishingly little m/m and lots of f/f

You sound like you think we'd make this fanfic-specific argument about pro media. In fact, plenty of queer women are open that they produce original f/f but not f/f fanfic or they produce f/f fanworks but not fic. A lot of the "too close to home" arguments are specifically about the kind of id fuel, naked-in-public vibes of AO3-style fanfic. Writing that is less id-driven may not feel that same way. A given woman might have a much easier time writing a mystery novel about a lesbian detective who never gets laid on page than a steamy f/f bodice ripper.

The parallel universe you ask about exists. It's horny imageboards full of fan art of anime girls.

The reason you sound judgmental and are getting "unproductive" responses is that you're phrasing things as though we're refusing to solve a problem. In reality, we're attempting to analyze the situation that exists. It's a descriptive approach.

[butchpillowprince]

Freshly manufactured butch again, and thank you for the answer before!! Would you actually have some advice for newly identified butches? Things you wish someone would have told you years ago when you first started out?

Thanks again!

You're welcome, and thanks for stopping by again! :) I love this question.

My advice for my past self when I was first transitioning toward androgyny/masculinity:

When you spend months dwelling on whether or not to cut your hair short, that's your sign to cut off all your hair. Do it.

Ditch your women's clothes, especially the pants (no pockets) and the panties (ugh) and the bras (barf). It's okay to embrace your natural chest and just wear sports bras. One day you'll even wear a binder and make yourself flatter. Remember when you were a feminine teenage girl and your flat chest was your biggest insecurity? Yeah. Now you love it. :) And you're not a girl, lol.

Buy the bowties and neck ties. The men's dress shirts and shoes. When it's time for your next wedding, go to a tailor for your first suit. Life is short, get the rainbow hair for Pride. Your first relationship won't last, but being in butch4butch love, even fleeting, will change and heal you. Your first butch4butch hookup will too. And no, they won't be the same person, sorry.

Read George's Boi. Explore your butch4butch sexuality. When George's Boi inspires you to write erotica, fucking go with it.

Queer community will also heal you. Keep seeking it out even when you don't find it in certain cities or spaces. Be yourself. Explore yourself. Question your gender. Try new names and pronouns if the idea tickles your fancy. Even if you end up being cis at least you reflected on yourself, and who knows, maybe you'll learn something new about you.

Butch community is hard to find but surprisingly easy to build. When you have ideas for a new butch project, just do it. Make it happen and you'll watch friends and community appear beside you.

It's okay to not be hypermasculine or the butchest butch in the room. Embrace the masculinity that is authentic and comfortable for you. Don't feign interest in hobbies or drinks or mannerisms that aren't really yours, don't worry over measures of physical strength or ability, don't feel pressure to top during sex exclusively or even at all, don't worry about not fitting a certain body type or stereotype. You're butch which means you're another beautiful iteration of butchness. And, it's okay to stop calling yourself "soft butch" because you feel like you're not butch enough to just claim the word "butch" alone. You are butch. You are. You are. You are.

I'm proud of you. Welcome home.

[saintsenara]

As someone who isn't the biggest Hermione fan and keeps it quiet because greater fandom LOVES her, I'm honestly gagging for more of your Hermione takes. Especially your takes on fanon Hermione, who I can't STAND. Have a good one x

thank you very much, anon - there are dozens of us!

hermione is certainly the character i struggle to find common ground with the most - and this has been the case since i first read philosopher's stone as a child.

[which has actually been a really fascinating pop-culture experience - i think we tend to overlook, both because the media landscape and its representation of child and teen girls has changed since the 1990s and because of jkr's increasingly harmful views on gender, just how groundbreaking hermione was as a female protagonist in media which wasn't marketed primarily or exclusively towards girls. there is a reason why so many girls and women identified with her when the books were coming out - and it was very interesting for me growing up to not be one of them.]

the cause of my beef with hermione is for the incredibly petty reason that i find people who possess many of her more... striking traits quite difficult to deal with in real life, particularly if they don't acknowledge [which people in the hermione vein often don't...] that these traits are things it might benefit them to work on in their interpersonal relationships...

but this doesn't prevent me recognising that canon!hermione [and any real person like her] is interesting - and that her more annoying traits work well with her more straightforwardly admirable ones to create a fully-rounded character who, from a fanfiction perspective, is a great vehicle for all sorts of tropes, themes, and storylines.

which brings us - of course - to fanon!hermione...

fanon!hermione is, at her core, another brick in the wall of mary-sues. she's beautiful, and so clever she can solve millennia-old puzzles without batting an eyelid, and she's preternaturally emotionally intelligent, and she's morally spotless, and she's always right, and the story's preferred romantic partner worships the ground she walks on, and anyone who doesn't like her is punished.

i don't think - to be clear - that there is anything wrong, per se, with people wanting to write fanon!hermione [nor, to be frank, with other flawless fanon versions of female characters, oc mary-sues, or self-indulgent self-inserts - i'll defend the right to have fun with characters to the death]. this is a hobby, and people's way of engaging with that hobby doesn't have to appeal to me - it's fun escapism sometimes to write a character who is wonderful and perfect and beloved and has a sexy partner; and when it comes to accusations of writing someone "out-of-character", let she who is without sin cast the first stone...

but i also think - and [sigh] here comes some discourse - that fanon!hermione is part of a slight... girlbossification of female characters in the harry potter fandom [and presumably in others, i just don't follow closely enough to know] which i've always been a little uneasy about.

i understand why this happens - this fandom, like many, has an overwhelming preference for making blorbos of male characters and for imagining these characters in slash relationships. the treatment of female characters in slash subfandoms - i.e. tonks in wolfstar spaces; lily in jegulus spaces - is often straightforwardly misogynistic, and even in cases where it isn't, female characters are often shuffled quietly to the sidelines, except when they pop up - often suddenly in a queer pairing of their own - to benignly cheerlead the male couple.

and i think it's good that this is challenged - as i also think it's good that the heteronormative vibes of a lot of slash are challenged - and that we, as a fandom, are increasingly interested in female-centric works [whether focused on a romantic pairing or otherwise] and discussions. i hope these continue to take up fandom space.

but i have also noticed that the way female characters are written and talked about in these context is - as i've said - quite #girlboss in its approach. the focus is on women as clever and competent and feisty and unruffled and brave.

[including female villains, there are a lot of girlboss bellatrixes knocking around...]

and great! it should be! - but from what i've seen this also comes accompanied by a resistance to the idea that women can also be boring, unintelligent, self-infantilising, vain, arrogant, ignorant, talentless, meek, domestic, rude, dislikable, conservative, incurious, complicit in their own victimisation, plain wrong, and so on, and not only still be worthy of exploration, but be worthy of these characteristics not being automatically considered bad things for someone to possess and it not being seen as letting down the sisterhood to explore a woman who possesses them.

and, sure, hermione cannot be described as many of these things - but she is...

self-righteous; cruel; petty; from a privileged class background in the muggle world which blinkers her understanding of the class structure of the wizarding one; stubborn; terrible under pressure; shown by the text to be intelligent largely due to an ability to rote learn; a people-pleaser with a tendency towards a slightly hagrid-ish blind loyalty; extremely deferential to authority and willing to tolerate cruel treatment from authority figures [i.e. snape]; the most childlike of the trio [she takes her schoolbooks on the run and reads through them for comfort! she's an enormous animal lover!]; interested in one of form of stereotypical femininity [knitting! wearing pretty dresses!] even if she rejects the form of stereotypical femininity liked by e.g. parvati and lavender [and anyone who thinks she's not going to get along with her mother-in-law because molly's a housewife is dead wrong - she's having the time of her life helping put together a sunday lunch at the burrow]; possessed of a filthy sense of humour [i will never understand why emma watson said that the key to playing her was to be prim...]; someone who obviously wants to be liked and to be loved; and so on...

[and also, by the end of the pre-epilogue narrative, eighteen. she's often written in fics in a way which makes her sound like she's seen a lot of life - especially if the fic wants to claim she's "too mature" to bother with men her own age... but she hasn't - she's a teenager, and the reason she's so unpolished and abrasive is because literally all teenagers are unpolished and abrasive. it's just one of the mortifying agonies of growing up.]

we should love this. it makes her thorny and messy and mixed-up and human - and i am perfectly delighted by explorations of her character which delve into unravelling this tangle.

i just like her less as someone who is there to be right and beloved and uncriticised.

unless it's by ron. everyone should be uncomplicatedly adored by their wife guy.

[velvetvexations]

___ is really just proudly admitting to sexually harassing intersex people now. (None of the people she harassed are "AFAB trans women" anyway, that's just what she assumes any intersex person is if they won't tell her what's in their pants)

I promise you that if I talk about her she's just going to jerk off about it, she has no audience relative to major TRFs like apricot-aligator, the best thing to do is block and try to forget her.

TRFs really do an AMAZING job of proving that radfem bullshit and manosphere bullshit are basically exactly the same worldview taken to SLIGHTLY different conclusions Like it's always been like that but when you get people unironically saying shit like "women are allowed to wear pants now so TEE EMM EEs aren't oppressed at all anymore but maybe they should be because of all the power that being able to give birth inherently gives them, cisfeminism has gone too far smh, femoids AFABs don't deserve rights actually" and "oh so you're saying I can just exist without either hurting women or becoming their loyal knight? That women can speak for themselves without me!? That I could even be HURT by a pathetic, weak, delicate little WOMAN!? You're saying I'm not a real man!? How DARE!! Get behind me, milady, I'll protect you from this foul ruffian who would speak such cruel blasphemy!" and calling these super progressive intersectional transfeminist things to say it really does make it all that much more obvious

it's really funny they have a new hobby calling transandrophobia Nazism "reactionary" ain't it

TRF transmascs after headcanoning the flavour of the month as transfem and putting TME in their bios: Alright that’s enough activism for now 👍

I owe them so much.

>see someone post a funny joke including trans men >check the comments >people somehow instantly joking about how transandophobia isn’t real and is made up by delusional women Why. It literally wasn’t even related I’m gonna scream

I'm sorry anon. <3

I'm so incredibly frustrated about the whole "transandrophobia isn't real" stuff because I can literally be like "A lot of trans and queer spaces, especially with younger people, see masculinity as inherently bad an actively discourage it and that's bad for trans men since masculinity is what most are transitioning towards" and get the answer of "so you hate trans women" if I use the words transandrophobia or anti-transmasculinity

So you hate trans women?

“No one is immune to being reactionary or insecure. If you have a reactionary gut response to what is to you a new form of progressive politics, that’s something to meditate on and unpack on your own terms.” Sometimes people disagree after thinking about it. This is not a difficult concept to understand.

No, it's transmisogynistic to breathe without a trans woman's permission, actually.

wild how a lot of the "trans-androphibia isnt real" boils down to "in My experience You haven't had this happen to you

lmao fr

I think it’s so funny when TRF people think being socialized into a gender is passively just looking at one of your parents and how they do the gender and if you happen to be looking at the parent who’s the opposite gender, you’re gonna be picking up that gender and be forever trans. When in actuality, both parents are going to be socializing you by showing how both genders act and literally TELLING you how both genders act. My mother told me men don’t cry, my father told me girls are more smarter. My mother told me girls are more sensitive, my father told me men must never show weakness. Socialization can be passive but unless your parents were neglecting you, it’s not ONLY passive and it’s never ONLY one gender. And sometimes, the socialization doesn’t even work.

Yeah TRFs are very confused by the concept of socialization because they heard how TERFs use it and just fully noped out of the entire concept because they're not clever enough to understand that TERFs wildly distort things to be worse than they are. It's amazing TERFs haven't convinced them to detransition because they seem to believe nearly everything they say.

The person who initially did the bomb threat against transmascs being a tankie is hilarious. Somehow idolizing powerful cis men who caused millions of deaths are a-okay but trans men? Yeah, die.

they just don't like trans men and kulaks ig

you're marked red on shinigami-eyes this extension really fell off the more people started using it fbjhgffd

moderation is also actively shit lol

‘it is bad to hate someone for an aspect of their identity they cannot control’ does not stop being true when the person is a cis man. what in the fucking world is happening. systemic oppression aside it is still fucking mean to hate someone for something they cannot control

eyyyup

saw a post about how hating trans men makes you transphobic and immediately saw someone in the notes saying its not transphobic when *i* do it because i have a fear of men and that includes trans men. hello?

(post about hating trans men being transphobic pt2) the direct quote from it is actually worse holy shit "the only reason im not considered transphobic is because i actually have a minor fear of men and that includes trans men. any other reason for hating trans men that isnt trauma or phobias is transphobia!!" this makes me feel really good about being a trans man and i feel very validated because people being afraid of me means im a real boy /sar

they should go hide in a hole somewhere while the rest of us get this activism thing done

in what capacity did jkr turn to terfism about trans men first? what do you mean by that?

the first thing that ever triggered her was trans men getting SRS, hating trans women came after

LBR the "only trans women get predatorjacketed and have spurious harassment campaigns against them" crowd has only ever been fucking disingenious b/c when predatorjacketing and harassment was happening primarily towards (mostly neurodivergent) cis women and transmascs online, they all said we were "too online" and "cared too much about fandom drama". I haven't trusted a single one of these motherfuckers since 2018 when they aggressively whitewashed the harassment me and my friends got from anti-shippers because "why are you arguing about cartoons with children online". And they do it to this day! Literally any time anyone goes "we tried telling you when antis were using all these strategies against us" they go "how dare you compare MY LIVED EXPERIENCE to FANDOM INFIGHTING" like people weren't getting spammed with accusations of being child molesters for years.

Yeah, all of that sucks too, and I'm so sorry.

[wolfertinger]

"With all my time being in many queer spaces" And said queer spaces are puppygirl white trans women discord servers. What is with this guy and telling half truths/exaggerating his life instead of actually doing what he claims. I don't even want to dislike this guy, he really just needs to stop posting all day and start doing things to enrich his life. But his unwillingness to change makes that so hard.

again. he has no contact at all, with irl queer spaces. he has never met a queer person, irl. he has admitted, the closest queer person irl he has met, was his deceased uncle in early childhood, who MAY have been a drag queen, and MAY have been a sex worker. which honestly. it is bizarre enough, to have to reach that hard. just say no. you do not know any queer people irl.

he says, about his art. "this looks like people ive seen irl!" yet, he cannot say, "this looks like people I KNOW!" because he does not know, anyone. he has admitted, he rarely, if ever, leaves his house. he has no other hobbies, other than watching breadtubers, complaining, and drawing.

i do not think he even spends much time with wis. considering, all he could muster for valentines day, was a sex drawing, mostly focused on his oc, fucking one of her only asexual ocs.

[manstrans]

“Men can go to hobby groups and-“

Women can too? I spent like 16-17 years as a woman??? I was invited to hobby groups and groups to chill and hang out.

I felt safe in these spaces?

They’re not spaces to share emotions, feelings and struggles while being able to learn and grow as people?

Like, I dunno, I also grew up where a man deciding he wanted to shave his legs because it feels nice got him called a woman, and shamed so much he stopped doing it and lived in discomfort.

Sounds systemic and unsafe to me.

Hobby spaces aren’t safe spaces in the same way that spaces carved out to be safe spaces are.

Also marginalized men exist.

Men of Colour, Trans Men, Gay men?? Queer men as a whole?

Men targeted to uphold patriarchy that are then discarded once the patriarchy is settled.

A black man wanting a space where he isn’t treated like he’s inherently dangerous isn’t just important because he’s a man, but because that idea he is inherently a threat for being a BLACK man is dangerous.

People can’t remove that from conversations about gender either.

Race will ALWAYS matter, and every time I see conversations where people are saying “men don’t deserve safe spaces I should be allowed to bash ALL men (except trans men who are men lite/especially trans men who are traitors to womenhood)” I just think, “so white women convinced you men of colour oppress them for being men, as if white women still don’t get these men punished for being black.

Gay men don’t really 1:1 oppress straight women either.

Men being isolated and kept from their OWN communities is an issue. White supremacy does in fact allow outer groups to strengthen itself until it no longer needs that outer groups strength then it discards them.

There are black neo-nazis. There are gay ones. There are trans men bigots.

There are white women neo-nazis.

Bigots who have fallen into bigotry, and into extremism, usually are fed the ideals and it’s so easy to keep them there by pointing at something vitriol and saying, “look, see, they hate you, they’re your enemies, they deserve your hate and ire”.

Like, idk, that 12 year old boy isn’t good and innocent from his racist and harmful ideals he’s slinging around, but if no one helps him out of those beliefs he’ll be a 25 year old man with those harmful beliefs.

And I don’t know any way of thinking that says a 12 year old listens to horrible bitter put downs over like, long understanding conversations.

Like, even if you personally (broadly, not at you) don’t want to lead someone from those ideals, someone has to teach. Someone has to willingly pull people away from that.

People talk about rehabilitative justice and then turn around and say, “hey I think you’re harmful for existing and you deserve suffering”.

As if that helps somehow?

This just rounds back to, as well, marginalized men exist, and the Men vs Women dichotomy is literally Radical Feminism which ignores the racial factors of oppression. Which is how white women get away wish racism to black women while also saying “we need to stay united”

^^^^^ long but worth reading

[karasbroken]

I haven't been doing much posting about the horrifying shit show that is my country right now.

I'm avoiding real life because I need just a little place where I can focus on the frivolous, on a past that was in some ways even more hostile to women, to queerness, to diversity, but which had the charm of hope, of movement towards a better world.

I love Farscape because it was ahead of its time, it was trying, and I can forgive its failures because I remember those times and my own ignorance and my own need to learn and grow, and hope I am forgiven.

But please don't take my silence here as an assent to the coup that is happening, or a blindness to how deeply this is already affecting not just people I care about, but whole communities, here but also around the world. What we are doing to transgender people is wrong. What we are doing to immigrants is wrong. What we are doing to our institutions and the rule of law is wrong. We know better. We should be doing better. What is happening is wrong. It will cause suffering. It will kill people. It will break things that can't be mended.

I have no religion and I've never been much of an optimist. So while I believe that we will emerge from this nightmare eventually, I don't know how, and I don't know how bad it will get before we do.

In the meantime, while I might be doing other things in the rest of my life, I hope you all can forgive me for keeping this space mostly about my space blorbos. I hope you all continue to post about my favorite misfit Jerry Springer found family, or whatever interests or fandoms or hobbies or art give you a few breaths of joy.

We need joy just like we need anger and organization and resistance.

[castlebyersafterdark]

What do you make of claims where people say that "girls"/"women" only ship m/m pairings / or say, Byler, because they fetishize gay pairings/people?

Do you personally care about this sort of issue in fandoms, Vinny? Or does it fall in line with puritan culture that we've discussed? (I'm a woman who ships all kinds of things, but I do ship a lot of m/m ships, and not "wholesomely," I enjoy smut and the sexual intimacy we herald here haha. It makes me question why I do, but at the end of the day, Byler is just such a good ship. Why wouldn't I enjoy reading and fantasizing about them?)

Idk where I was going with this, but yeah! I love your blog Vinny, thank you for holding this wonderful space where we can kiki about our boys and other fun stuff 💖🥹👉🏼👈🏼

First off for a little light-hearted humor - in all my years in fandom, lesbians have written some of theeeee hottest m/m fanfics in existence, so I always put respect on our diverse make-up of fans in fandom heeehee (one day I hope to return the favor but I keep chickening out!! One day!). We also must always thank the Star Trek fans in the 60s who kickstarted a lot of things. They just wanted those spacemen to bang in their glittery polyester uniforms and we love them for that. Respect our mothers.

That out of the way - this is a nuanced, somewhat complicated subject and one that's interesting to dive into. Since I've been in fandom for a while, since I'm a gay man in a hobby that some view as one that is predominantly female leaning - definitely queer leaning in this sort of fandom environment at least, I'm always wary of strictly adhering to fandom statistics when I'm unsure of realistic numbers. What makes a fandom? Varies from social media to social media, from creative work to work. But - looking at at least one source kind of supports these statistics.

I'll admit I googled this and only skimmed this page but it at least was a conversation in depth between fandom women about the appeal of M/M pairings so maybe that's insightful??

I think... there's mostly genuine interests and intentions in fandom shipping. I like that a wide variety and demographic are supportive towards all sorts of love stories. Is there a fetishization angle? Perhaps, sometimes. But is there not the same when someone like me is reading/writing smut of these same characters to an extent? There's nuance there, too. How are you treating REAL LIFE gay men is the issue. How are you treating sexuality and sexual interests of authentic, real gay men? It's like when straight men watch "lesbian" porn. That's not realistic to real lesbians. Ok, so they like women, they are attracted to women, they like the thought of women having sex with each other. But what about women NOT catered to the straight male interest in a studio adult film? Are you normal about them, do they have agency, are you advocating for them to live their lives and have whatever type of sex THEY want?? Hmmm? This is simplifying the issue but I don't have time to write a real dissertation.

The part that gives me pause is definitely related to the current trends in the sanitized mindset and what we call "purity culture" so often. It removed the reality of real gay relationship and sands everything down to the point where I feel - why do you care to ship these two men if you are denying them the reality of what their sexuality affords them? Not everyone has to read or write hardcore smut and that's fine, maybe you're only there for the romance of it all - but to DENY and scold and judge those who have that interest, who try to police everyone, who think it's dirty and inappropriate and all of that - THAT'S the problem and I have to say - it stings coming from non-gay men. Because it gives people like me pause and realize that if they have this mindset for fictional characters, then this has to also be how they view real life gay men. It's not a huge leap.

It does veer into weird territory - sometimes feeling like the veneer of progressiveness as if fandom was activism (it so rarely is) and I do wonder WHY these people care about a ship at all if it's just about cutesy wholesome stuff and that alone while demonizing the reality of sexuality. I'm starting to repeat myself. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an easy answer and it's a "you know it when you see it" situation, person to person. Because then there's the thing I also see in fandom, not unique to this fandom, where for all intents and purposes, the fan is all in on M/M ships and even supports and enjoys explicit content. Ok. But then... oh, something is off. We can all like what we like but vocally being very hmm kind of kink-shamey? About things that are very integral and common in gay sex? I've seen that with certain sex acts being called gross or that they hate when fics include certain elements and it ends up honestly disrespectful and that's where I also take pause like... ok you could have just not posted and harped on this again, because now you're reminding me of the straight men who watch the really unrealistic and negatively fetishy lesbian porn. If that at all makes sense.

This was kind of all over the place but I hope it makes sense!!! At the end of the day - I love all the variety in fandom and I recognize that there's a lot of women and queer people here, and that's a cool thing. I love when I meet fellow guys as well because we're all out here!! I think so many of us are just nerds, and nerds who love love and have imaginations bigger than the source material can satisfy - and that's ultimately what brings us together across gender and age and location and sexuality. A desire to explore the human condition.

Thank you for hanging out and the kind words!!

❤️🫶

[olderthannetfic]

Do you think that more het-oriented fanfic-writing spaces are more gender-balanced? Or maybe only some of them, with significant enclaves of mostly-men and mostly-women?

--

If we're asking about fic writers in aggregate, every study of het-heavy FFN and Wattpad reveals a shitton of women. There are no dude-heavy fic spaces on that scale, het-filled or otherwise.

People like to argue about this, but we're talking the difference between spaces with literal millions of accounts and spaces with maybe a hundred thousand.

If we're asking about individual smaller spaces where fic writers hang out, then yes, there are some that are mostly men at least as far as we know, and those spaces tend to have a fair amount of het.

I suspect but cannot prove that something like Edward/Bella fandom at its height was significantly less queer than your standard m/m fandom on AO3, but it probably wasn't significantly less female.

--

Just based on numbers, I'd expect more dudes to write fic about Ladies Hot than Dudes Hot.

A more significant trend is that men tend to be trained that they should be paid for their labor and tend to have more hope, sometimes justified, of going mainstream with their hobby efforts. That doesn't mean every dude does it with every hobby, but it does have a dampening effect on the kind of gift economy culture we saw on LJ or whatever.

IME, even guys who are doing things for the good of the community are often expecting more direct respect and less of the amorphous social ties that are the currency of many fic fandoms. They might also be more directly solving a tangible problem or doing something that will get them an advantage in their job even if it isn't directly paid. (Compare dudes doing open source coding to dudes writing fanfic, for example. And yes, yes, notallmen, but we're talking big picture here.)

Combine gendered patterns in fiction consumption overall, some gendered social patterns, and social forces against giving shit away for free, and the patterns we see with fic qua fic are perfectly predictable.

The patterns for barely-renamed expies in "original" stories that could one day be monetized, now...

[bengiyo]

She Loves to Cook, and She Loves to Eat 2 Eps 5-8 Stray Thoughts

Last week, we returned to my favorite ladies. They realized they were spending too much on their hangouts, so made the silly decision to just stop hanging out. That broke fairly quickly at least and they just started having more cost-effective meals together. Nomoto got a full time position along with her work bestie, and they're thriving. Nomoto watched her first lesbian film, and has made an internet friend. Kasuga noticed their new neighbor, and so they have begun the process of befriending her.

Episode 5

Very glad both of my favorite food shows with LGBT couples are wading directly into the importance of marriage equality.

Fuck yes we're getting back to the cabbage rolls!

YES!! A WATCH PARTY!!! Invite Kasuga!!

Kasuga is so careful with Nagumo. I'm not sure I'm reading exactly how determined each of them is being about being polite as Kasuga tries to be helpful.

Oh, Nagumo, I hope you find a way to be comfortable eating with them eventually.

Now, Nomoto, you were so close to telling her. Come on!

These cabbage rolls look good. I hadn't thought about putting them in a soup.

Yes, stay focused on Nagumo! We must befriend her!

Episode 6

I like introducing a character who struggles with eating with others into this show. I'm relieved it's only about eating in front of strangers.

That was an incredible eye roll from Kasuga to the message from her aunt.

Kasuga overhearing older women unpack their disdain for the caregiver expectation placed on them them is a good choice.

An asexual lesbian who wants to watch her stories with others. She is one of us. This is the gay sex and celibacy website z after all.

I like Yaku! She was warm to Nomoto, asked a good question about snacks. Admitted she doesn't like cooking in a way that doesn't make Nomoto's hobby seem bad. Then they enjoyed a film together.

Yaku is great. She's letting Nomoto lead here, and giving her encouragement to continue sharing.

Come through, Yaku! There is room for all types of lesbians! Quiet gays who maybe don't want to have a ton of sex can sit with us too!

"Are we in a drama?" Yes, Yaku, and you are the cool, self-actualized queer.

I'm glad Nomoto can share! This will definitely help her get out of her own head.

Episode 7

Oh, is her name Yako? I will start using that spelling.

Sayama, thank you for trying to help your friend confess to her crush, but she is determined for this to be a slow burn show.

Kasuga backs in to park She's better than all of us.

This conversation is ugly. The dad doesn't think he or the eldest son should do anything to help with elder care, but Kasuga should give up her entire life to take care of people who disrespect her. I can see why she's avoided them for this long.

I'm glad we already knew that Kasuga was not given enough to eat in the first season, so this is all reaffirming it and letting us examine the long term impacts.

They're all sharing on the balcony!

They're making donuts together!!!

Nagumo seems like she had a good time, and they're encouraging her to eat some on her own.

Childhood trauma episode, I see.

Nomoto and Kasuga have so much grace for Nagumo. They let her share about herself, asked her how they can best support her, and Nomoto even encouraged Kasuga to take some donuts home so Nagumo isn't the only one leaving with food.

Episode 8

SAYAMA GETS DONUTS TOO! I love this show!!!

Wow, this conversation between Kasuga and Ms. Fujita hit me. The seriousness with which she stressed to Kasuga not to give up her life for her parents landed so hard. This is complicated for me, because I've accepted that my role as the oldest will be that of caregiver in the future.

They turned her room into a storage space and still just expect her to clean it up. I'm glad she put her foot down here. I do believe in giving back the love and care we've received to our parents when they get older, but you are giving back what was given to you. Kasuga is right to not want to spend her adulthood as a household servant to an ungrateful man and his mother.

Wow, this Chosen Family scene took me right the fuck out.

Nomoto is correct. I will also not forgive Kasuga's father for making her feel like this.

She almost said it! We're getting close!

I'm so glad we're expanding the cast this season to deal with more issues affecting Japanese women. I really like that they spent two episodes on Kasuga deciding that the family she's building here is more important to her than the family that mistreated her. I'm so happy that Nomoto has another lesbian friend to talk to. I'm so relieved that Nagumo is opening up to them and starting to share in the warmth our ladies have offered her. I will be thinking about that donut scene for a while. I'm so happy that we have so much more time with them this season.

[tired-fandom-ndn]

The fact that Alastor is canonically more comfortable around women is so interesting to me.

He doesn't seem to mind it when Rosie and Nifty touch him or enter his personal space. Rosie also seems to be aware of his plans to some extent. Mimzy has been using him as a get out of jail free card for DECADES before he told her to stop.

Meanwhile, when he interacts with other men it is usually much more hostile. He humiliates Vox, keeps Zestial at a distance and refuses to share information, has a rivalry with Lucifer, and we all remember how the Husk scene went.

And that makes the idea of Alastor being in a lavender marriage in life so much more interesting, too.

Because Alastor is good with women, he genuinely LIKES spending time with them. Chances are he got along well with his wife, possibly being close friends.

And the more I think about it, the clearer I can see Alastor being raised by a single mother and developing "girly" hobbies, such as cooking or sewing, and being used to housework. A well-dressed man who hangs out with plenty of women but never makes an advance. There would be rumors about him being gay, and men would hate him either for getting too close to their wives, for being a pansy, or both.

Alastor, in hell, waiting patiently for his wife. Because she was his friend. Because she never loved him and he never loved her, but extra souls never hurt and he'd rather keep her close than let someone like Vox get his hands on her.

[context]

GOD ANON HOW DID YOU READ MY MIND

Like this is EXACTLY what I was picturing holy shit. Alastor raised by a single mother (or with a very absent and/or abusive father), taught how to cook, clean, sew, and garden. I headcanon that he was also a hunter from a pretty young age, but even then they worked together to make an income from the hunting, not just eating or selling the meat but also making clothes from the hides and furs. Alastor is, at his roots, a homemaker which was NOT at all typical for men in his time.

His mother also taught him how to respect women and treat them well, always the perfect gentleman, and that combined with his "oddities" and distrust of men definitely led to his friends being almost entirely women (probably with scattering of queer men). The rumors about him would've been RAMPANT, especially when combined with the racism he'd be facing anyway (Word of God says he's mixed, I headcanon him as Black and Choctaw on his mom's side, white on his dad's), which would just drive him further away from forming any sort of relationships with other men.

I think his wife (I've been headcanoning her as Black too, from a lowerclass family like Alastor's) was probably one of those friends, one of the many women who was easily charmed by his bright smiles and kindness but maybe one of the very, very few people who saw a hint of sharpness in his smile or heard the little thread of truth in his darker jokes. She didn't truly understand Alastor, not like Mimzy did, but she saw enough that he trusted they could have a relatively happy and open life together, with him using their marriage as a shield against suspicion. And the fact that their marriage would benefit her too, giving her more freedom than she would get from living with her family and letting her carry on her relationship with her own lover, was absolutely a bonus.

And they were happy. She didn't tell him about her lover, he didn't tell her about his little hobby, but they were happy. They made a home together, laughed and gossiped over meals, and filled their house with constant music and warmth. Their garden was the envy of their neighborhood (and if she wondered where he got the bones and blood their flowers loved so much, she never asked) and they were the life of every party they were invited to. They didn't love each other, but they didn't need to. They were friends and that's all that mattered.

And yeah, I think Alastor absolutely waited for her or sought her out in Hell. Maybe he never found her and was content in the knowledge that she made it into Heaven. Maybe he found her a few decades after his own death and offered her up a simple contract, something to protect her from other overlords while giving her as much freedom as an owned soul has. He keeps her on as one of his reserved souls (like I mentioned here) and they share meals together every so often and sometimes he summons her to act as a background singer or play an instrument to accompany his singing.

They never talk about their previous relationship, partially because it's just not important to who they are in Hell and partially because it would put her in too much danger. Alastor probably mentions having been married in life a few times and everyone just assumes that Mimzy was his wife and that her contract keeps her from talking about it.

[chainmail-butch]

I was wondering if you might have any advice on socializing and meeting people as a transfem butch? I've not really had any success off the internet and I'm wanting to change that, but it's really daunting given I present in a way that's hard to distinguish from a man. No worries if you don't have any advice, but you seem confident and experienced so I wanted to give it a shot

Confidence, going to the same place regularly, and prioritizing other trans people.

Cis people simply won't get it, and it'll probably take them a lot of time and repeated exposure to figure it out.

Trans women and trans men tend to get it pretty quick and are your best choice for friendships and romantic relationships.

Regularity typically comes with a hobby, so if there are any hobby spaces around you and/or bars, I would try those first. Instagram is a good place to find local queer meet-ups and groups.