#wow watches goncharov

[wowbright]

OK so I've been thinking a lot about this over the past day and I think there's more to it. The bridge scene, where upon my umpteenth watch I finally noticed a pair of Mormon missionaries in the background tossing an apple core into the water, is the third apple scene in the movie, after the one between Katya and Sofia and one between Andrey and Goncharov.

And boy oh boy, does it shed a lot of light on how we’re supposed to understand temptation and desire in Goncharov.

In all these scenes, we have one character handing an apple (in whole or part) to another. And this recalls the Genesis story of Eve eating the “apple,” aka the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. (To be clear, the missionaries, though interacting with an apple, don't matter as characters--their presence only serves as a subtle within text commentary on the earlier apple scenes. We'll get more into that later.)

So sticking strictly with Genesis and how that story is traditionally read in Christian circles, we get these interpretations (none of which are original to me; Goncharov scholars and Tumblrinas have been writing about this stuff for years):

Corruption of humanity—The devil coaxes Eve into     eating the apple, thereby corrupting her; Eve gives the apple to Adam and     corrupts him. The characters in the movie corrupt each other.

Forbidden     fruit—even though it seems like it     would be a good thing for humans to understand the difference between good     and evil, Jehovah has warned Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit. Similarly,     it would a good thing for Andrey and Goncharov to fuck already, because it     would save so many lives; and it would be good for Katya and Sofya to express     their romantic desires, as well—it might not save as many lives, but they     would save their own lives and well-being. But society has told him that     same-sex love is forbidden; unlike Eve, they don’t challenge this idea.

Struggles     with temptation—Do I really have to elaborate?

Knowledge     of good and evil—Goncharov knows good and evil.     He knows their situation is bad but possibly escapable. In the scene where     he offers Andrey the apple, he is also attempting to make a deal that he     thinks will help them escape the worst of the evils. But Andrey refuses     the apple, mean he also refuses the knowledge of not just evil, but also     of good. He is unable to make a deal that will save lives because he     cannot comprehend good when he sees it.

But the bridge scene introduces another layer of interpretation. Because there is an additional version of the Adam and Eve story in the Book of Mormon.

And unlike the Genesis version, it makes very clear that Eve made the right decision by eating the apple.

And here’s what it means for Goncharov:

There's a lot of theology that goes into this, but basically the idea is that humanity must have a knowledge of good and evil in order to progress. If Eve had not eaten the apple, humanity would have languished in the garden, “remain[ing] as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility” (2 Nephi 2:11).

Eve did a super brave thing because she knew that eating the apple would mean that she would experience pain and death. But she knew that if she didn't eat the apple, no one would experience anything good either.

Everything in Goncharov is deliberate. So I think when we see the Mormon missionaries throwing the apple core into the water later during the bridge seen, we are being told to understand the previous apple symbology through a Book of Mormon lens.

So Katya offering the apple to Sofia, and Goncharov to Andrey, isn't an act of corruption. It doesn't destroy Sofya’s purity. And for Andrey, it’s not temptation to “sin.” If he takes the deal (and subtextually binds himself to Goncharov the way Adam and Eve were bound together), he progresses and becomes more like God (knowing good and evil, but choosing good).  But he doesn’t have Eve’s courage to accept what Goncharov is offering. Andrey is too afraid of learning that his desire for Goncharov isn’t evil, but the carnage he’s causing is. He’s afraid of change and what it will cost him, even though in the end, not changing arguably costs him a lot more.

Yikes this movie hurts.

TL;DR: the main characters are tied down by the old symbology, so nothing good comes out of sharing the apples.

Everything seems pretty terrible by the time the bridge scene comes along. Katya and Goncharov know they’re doomed to die. But what does it matter, when the people they love “remain as dead”?

Still, this scene wants to communicate to the audience that all is not lost—or rather, all is lost for the characters, but the rest of us can learn from their errors. So it has a pair of Mormon missionaries (the Book of Mormon) throw the apple core (false and incomplete interpretations of the story of the “Fall”) into the water (the stream of eternity out of which all ideas are born and in which all ideas disintegrate; but also linking to the premortal life and the afterlife in ways I don’t have bandwidth to explore right now even though they are super tied in to the movie’s themes surrounding time, maybe @coffeegleek will write that one).

If only Sofia and Andrey had accepted the gift of truth and wisdom. (Irony: “Sofia” literally means “wisdom.”) If only they had accepted their desires and their “fall” as something to celebrate.

Ugh. It just makes the whole thing more poignant and painful.

[mackmp3]

just remembered the time when i told my librarian she should watch goncharov...........................

[martyarchive]

goncharov doc - @/connanro // mikey and nicky - dir. elaine may

[maybe-i-am-primm]

Okay, I put off watching it for a while, but I finally watched Goncharov, and like, I normally hate sitting through movies, but I loved this so much!!

The complexity to characters like katya, and the tension between her and her husband is portrayed so well!! And I love the wlw between her and Sofia hehe

I absolutely loved this movie and that pocket watch still haunts me now

[mississpissi]

damn u avoid the internet for 2 weeks and come back to a whole scorsese film what else did i miss

[just-an-enby-lemon]

Bruce: What movie should I pick for family night?

Steph: Goncharov.

The other batkids: *agreement sounds*

Bruce: Uh, okay. What's it about?

Tim: You never heard of Goncharov, B?? Is the best mafia movie of all times.

Duke: Wow, Mr. Wayne, Dick told me you loved mafia movies, but you don't even know Goncharov?

Bruce: I'm not a big movie fan or a Scorcese fan, I guess this one jusy slided me by.

Damian: T-T I'm disapointed with you father, you have to be a truly uncultured swinne to have never wached such a masterpiece as Goncharov 1973 directed by Matteo JWHJ0715 and Martin Scorcese.

Dick: *who is more of a little shit than people give him credit for* He should know it! We watched it on our early novie nights. You don't remember, B? *sad eyes*

Bruce: *who did sleep during most of his first family movie nights with Dick* I-I-I'm soo sorry, Dick. We can watch it again today? Make new memories?

Dick: I guess.

Jason: The fact you never watched it diminish the value of a critical discussion of certain aspects, like the religous symbolism of the market scene with the two forbiden fruits with Katya seing christianity in the apple while Sophia represented the paganism with the pomegranate, that can only be appreciated in a second view.

Cass: Finally someone is talking about the pomegranate and the apple.

Steph: Can we talk about Mario's glass motif and how it subverts expectations since normally broken glass represents loss but here is Mario's obcession, not seing the beauty in the fragments - or in the members of his mafioso empire- in a drive for the perfection and assumed superior quality of the whole - his trials to be like the tradicional criminal families going against change and his facistic suprass of individuality - to the point were when he finally fixes his broken glass vase to perfection his most trustworthy allies - namely Andrey and Joseph - have betrayed him in one way or another.

Bruce: *completly lost* This does sound like a great movie!

Barbara: It is one. And you would know that if you had any ressemblance of culture.

Dick: Honestly Bruce I can't belive you sleeped and missed such a perfect movie like Goncharov.

Alfred: *entering the living room* What's going on here?

Tim: B never saw Goncharov.

Alfred: *who has absolutly no idea what they are talking about* Really? Master Bruce, I thought I had teached you better than that! Goncharov is a mark of cinematography!

[autisticyuri]

-🍞long ask

whats your favorite tumblr lore?? mine is that one hamilton fan that wrote a fanfic about two founding fathers living with HIV and ran an entire tumblr account about being a nonbinary lesbian human trafficking survivor living with HIV but it turns out they were lying about all of it

WOW AJKSKJSDJSD

anyways my favourite is goncharov, the bestest movie ever you need to watch it if you havent seen it yet NOW GO WATCH IT!!!!

[rosewaterfish]

“You’re already dead darling. This is a mercy, not a murder” Goncharov (1973)

As always I’m late to the hype, but I finally sat down and watched this movie and wow. Just wow.

[panzershrike-pretz]

ooh pretz, i gotta question for you! i saw your archived page and you joined tumblr (at least this blog lol) in september, 2020. what was your reason for joining tumblr?? i’m super curious 👀❤️

OH WOW YOU CAN SEE THAT???? I WAS WONDERING WHEN I JOINED IT- I DIDN'T KNOW I COULD SEE IT :0

THANK YOU, YOU JUST ANSWERED ONE OF MY BIGGEST QUESTIONS!! Anyway-

Well, since it was still during the pandemic, I was learning English then! I kept seeing tumblr posts on pinterest and was actually really curious, so I joined

I my thought was that it would probably help me learn to read, since everything here is in English, but then I just used for a couple of days and lost interest. I kept it on my phone, just never used it tbh

Then I started to watch @/strange-aeons on YouTube and REALLY fell in love with their videos about tumblr culture and all of that, around the same time the Goncharov craze was happening

Then I started using it again last year, when I remembered that BoB would probably have a fandom

Then I met you (i think our url at the time was "im actually chinese believe it or not") and other amazing people :D

Now, I'm always here

[paintedgrilledcheese]

The DOA/RITHOTD preschool au!

The burning kitchen

It's another day in Mr. Goncharov's preschool class. The children were enjoying their free time in the classroom, playing nicely together so far. Little Sigma, the youngest of the class, was dashing back and forth between the pretend kitchen playset and the snack table where the kids normally eat their lunches. He was playing as the manager of his little pretend restaurant, and he was serious about it. Sigma wanted all his customers to be satisfied with his service, including satisfying the stubborn Mushitaro.

Mushitaro was a little vex to these games. If he was going to play, he made sure to be the antagonist and make the game much more difficult than it needed to be. Mushitaro liked playing the role of a food critic, always giving Sigma the unfortunate 4 star rating. This would always make poor Sigma upset. He believed that his restaurant was the greatest and DESERVED a 5 star rating.

After receiving another 4 star rating, delivered on a pink sticky note with poorly drawn stars and scribbles, Sigma huffed and stomped his little feet back over to the kitchen playset.

"PUSHKIN!" Sigma yelled in a high-pitched voice, which startled Pushkin. Pushkin was Sigma's one and only chef. "We got another 4 star rating from Mushitaro. I don't know what we're doing wrong. Are you slacking?" Sigma accused.

"I'm not slacking. I'm the one who's cooking, not you." Pushkin defend as he put a wooden block of milk into a plastic bowl with wooden eggs in it. "Mushitaro is being a meanie. That's what's happening. He doesn't know how hard I work to cook his order. I should put a dead cricket in his order next time." He muttered.

Sigma shook his head and protests. "No, don't do that. We'll lose customers."

"Why not? Crickets have nutritional value, my dad told me so." Pushkin argued.

"Nuh uh, bugs are gross and not meant to be eaten, you weirdo." Sigma was getting a little upset since he was scared of bugs.

"Yeah huh. You're just a scared of trying one." The two started to bicker. Despite this being a fun game for pretend, it was serious for them. If Sigma lost customers, the world would end in his little child mind.

The back and forth continued, calling each other names and getting so caught up in their petty argument (that was completely off-topic now) that Nikolai came over and threw balls of red paper into the plastic bowl Pushkin was using.

"Uh oh, seems like you got a fire!" Nikolai laughed loudly as Sigma screamed high pitched. Sigma yanked the bowl away from Pushkin and threw it into the pretend kitchen sink. But Nikolai continued to throw more red and orange balls off paper into Sigma's kitchen, causing a "fire." Nikolai was giggling joyfully as he watched Sigma try to put out this fake fire.

With all the commotion going on, Sigma screams, and Nikolai's laughter, Nathaniel came over wearing a plastic fire fighter helmet from Firehouse subs.

"Is there a fire?" He asked, holding an empty water bottle that he found.

"Yes. Please help." Sigma said in a panic. Nathaniel had a good look at the scene, seeing all the red and orange paper balls scattered across the kitchen playset.

"Hmmm, pay me first." He demanded.

"Why would I pay you?!" Sigma yelled, being extra loud.

"Because I'm going to need a lot more water to put out this fire, and I'm out of water." Nathaniel said with his logic.

"The money is burnt." Pushkin informed. Nathaniel looked at him straight in the eye before shrugging.

"Guess you guys are on your own then." Nathaniel turned to abandon them. Wow, what a great firefighter. Nikolai laughed more, watching all of this before running to leave the scene he caused. Sigma looked upset. He was upset. Sigma was about to throw a fit before Ivan announced it was snack time.

All the children were distracted by the announcement of snack time, including Sigma. Today was sugar cookie day, which cheered him up in an instant, forgetting all about his little game for now. During nap time, Ivan picked up and cleaned some of the room, picking up Nikolai's mess he caused in the pretend kitchen area. This brought joy to Sigma's face to see his kitchen wasn't on "fire" anymore when he woke up. All was well once again. Expect for that 4-star rating.

[anexperimentallife]

How old were you when Goncharov came out? Did you get to see an original showing?

Wow, that takes me back. I was ten when it came out (I temember the posters), but didn't get to see it until I was in my... I think it was late twenties or early thirties, when a friend played a bootleg copy of the director's cut for me on VHS. I've watched it probably a couple dozen times over the past couple of decades, but somehow it has ALWAYS been the director's cut. To this day, I have still not seen the theatrical release.

[wowbright]

Was re-watching the bridge scene last night, and apparently I've always been so focused on the cigarette and Katya's watch (for obvious reasons) that it was the first time I noticed those two guys milling in the background are MORMON MISSIONARIES!!!!!

Me being me, I am both delighted to see this and also appalled at myself for not having noticed this before. My only excuse is that missionaries dressed/groomed slightly differently in the 1970s and the nametags were black on white instead of white on black, but it's not a great excuse because they didn't look that different.

Not ready to dig into what this means for the themes of the movie yet, but since nothing in Goncharov is accidental, it clearly means something. I replayed the scene a few more times and one of the missionaries is throwing something into the water and I want to say it's an apple, which would connect the scene back to Katya and Sofia's relationship and the obvious Edenic themes, but I think maybe I'm just letting my excitement get the best of me.

[andelkacroatia]

Spoilers for Cocaine bear :

-first of all this movie is funny, I didn't expect that

-Henry is my favorite, that kid was amazing

-I like how they didn't glamourise or make it seem nostalgic towards the 80s

-like the movie is set in the 80s but it's not like "oh the 80s were so much cooler", it's just "yeah it's the 80s and thats it"

-Daveed and Eddie are a good dealer bad dealer duo and I LOVE THEM

-their scenes where the funniest

-also the Olaf guy was called Kristoffer at one point like what? Is your name like the snowman or the raindeeer my guy

-also he survived???

-how????

P.S. turns out he died, I mistook his body for his girlfriends body

-"My name is Henry and I'm so fucking tired!!!"

-Dee Dee is so smart making a paint trail like that💖

- thank god Rossette (the white long haird dog) survived thank god

-but she ate Daveeds fingers, like Jesus first his shoes, then his jersey and now his fingers

-like give this man a break!!

-the bear cubs are drug addicts too😭

-also fuck Syd for kicking them 3 separet times(rip Ray Loitta but your character was a bad guy and a bad father)

-also your son looks kind of Hot when he's sad😏

-she (Cocaine Bear) must have gotten addicted to it over the years I doubt that this is her first rodeo

-"How do you know it's a girl?" "Cuz her vagina is on my ear"

-She is so Cok-ette💖

-also the blonde twink lives? and he took the last of the cocaine? To New York???

-not to mention Officer Reba probsbly lied about the whole thing

-i meanthe crime scene/s are a mess, nobody whould be quastioning you after that shit...

-and the fact that Sari, Dee Dee and Henry whent home by foot/bike is just...wow...

-and now in in head I'm making the sequel for this movie

-set a year later, the Colombian mafia (Narcos/Narcos Mexico) go to Tennese to kill the bear, but they only kill mama bear(sorry) and are hunted down by the cocaed up cubs that kill them one by one...

-also Richard Ramirez (Ahs 1984) is here too, cuz cocaine and why the fuck not???

-this will be my Gorbabachow

-Goncharov?

-anyway go watch Cocaine bear you will be gaving a great time!

[kagakutsukai]

my ass was like “wow I really wanna watch Goncharov” as if the film genuinely exists

[it-happened-once-in-a-meme]

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[allroseshave-their-pricks]

Okay I finally watched Goncharov (1973) and I just... wow. It's so ridiculously good. I feel like nobody's talking about how intricate those costumes are though!

I keep seeing Katya's dresses, but Andrey's midnight suit from the scene? It's not quite period accurate but honestly with the time traveler alias he likes to use it just seems so right. The way it perfectly fits everything but his shoulders? The tie with the barely-there clock pattern? The grey handkerchief tucked into the back pocket‽ Chef's kiss, Scorsese is truly ahead of his time.