#would love love love to have a queer friend group (with little drama)

[absolutebl]

Top 10 Most Underrated BLs of the last 3 years

(mid year 2021 - end 2023)

This list will not include BLs that ended their run in 2024. I need some distance to know if something is actually underrated (We Are maybe?) or justifiably ignored.

1 I Cannot Reach You AKA Kimi ni wa Todokanai (Japan 2023 Netflix?)

This classic friends-to-lovers BL is everything Japan does best. Angsty. Emo. Aching. Driven by real thirst. Yamato is deeply in love with his childhood bestie, Kakeru, and has been for ages, increasingly unable to hide his ungainly damaging high school need. He wants Kakeru in every way possible and it oozes off of the screen. Kakeru is silly and a little simple, but not frenetic or overly camp about it. He is earnest, and genuinely wants to keep Yamato in his life, which means giving a romance (and gayness) a fair chance. We watch him realize his affection and what form it can take in a truly authentic way. This show was impossibly kind to both of its lead characters and I felt almost honored that I got to watch something so lovely and rare play out on my screen. Full review.

2 My Ride (Thai 2022 Gaga)

Thai BL grew up with this pulp (the first ever pulp to make my end of year top 10). It’s a truly lovely and special little show featuring the extremely rare pairing of sunshine/sunshine (AKA a cinnamon roll couple) plus mature explorations of relationships using one of the softest, sweetest, and most innocent friends to lovers vehicles. Kindly, overworked doctor meets broken-hearted motorcycle taxi rider in an “other side of the tracks” slow burn romance. The support cast is excellent, making for great friendship groups and family dynamics. With honest queer rep that adds to, but doesn’t impede, the story, and genuine conversation about the nature of class, wealth, and classism, not to mention communication, honesty, and respect for boundaries, you can’t go wrong with this show. In other news, I am a sucker for a single dimple. Full review.

3 Our Dining Table AKA Bokura no Shokutaku (Japan 2023 Gaga)

A lonely salaryman (+ talented cook) gets accidentally adopted by a college kid (and his little brother). I was always gonna love this show if they stuck to the original yaoi (which is very dear to my heart). And they did! Paralleling it almost exactly. It’s a quiet & cozy little parable of found family alleviating loneliness. Possibly too slow for some but definitely high up there for me as the best of what Japan can do with softness (like Restart After Come Back Home). It’s only flaw (if I dare say such a thing) is that it is not really “romantic.” Lovely & sweet but the romance beats are being used to build a family relationship, not just couple intimacy, but that's OK with me. This is a very safe show for anyone to watch.

4 About Youth (Taiwan 2022 Gaga)

A truly lovely little coming of age high school BL with a classic YA low drama but high angst and earnest depth. I didn’t even mind the singing, and that’s saying a lot. A weak seme/uke dynamic but tons of BL tropes (both rare in a high school setting but common for Taiwan) makes this one feel both sweet and colored by real world authenticity and grit. Full review.

5 Step By Step (Thai 2023 Gaga)

This was Thailand’s answer to The New Employee, and everything I loved about that show I loved about this one. This office romance between a stern boss and sweet subordinate felt more authentic to cubical work than previous Thai BLs of this ilk. That authenticity added tension to the narrative and its characters development (how novel). I also really enjoyed the charming side characters and the brothers' relationship to each other (although I could have done without that brother's side BL). Full review.

6 DNA Says Love You (Taiwan 2022 Gaga)

DNA deserves extra marks for an upbeat approach to a queer story arc that other shows have systemically mishandled with sadness (in the guise of realism). There is a twist, which I found predictable, but knowing what would happen didn't spoil this show. The leads are luminous and engaging, and it’s full of queer found family representation and an unexpected amount of domesticity, plus it’s Taiwan, so the kisses are great. The first few eps are rough going but have patience, it's worth it I promise! The second half is really special and life/love affirming - and the end is big-grin charming. Full review.

7 Unintentional Love Story (Korea 2023 iQIYI)

Of all the BLs on this list, this is probubly the MOST underrated. OMG the plot! Uke forced into a totally understandable betrayal, falling in love despite himself, put into a corner he can't get out of, the AGONY, the PAIN in those gorgeous eyes. Gah. Okay, so: A boy loses his job due to trumped-up corruption charges accidentally discovers his ex-boss's favorite artist, now a recluse. Evil manager offers him his job back, if he can convince the artist to rejoin society. Instead, they fall in love. I found the artist a bit stiff and reserved but Gongchan (maknae of B1A4) is a fucking GIFT - he carried this show (which I do not expect from the idol element). He was luminous with extraordinarily expressive eyes, just drown in the emoting abyss. The external conflict, social tension and pressure is complex and beautifully executed, plus Korea gave us legit side dishes (NOT a love triangle, hally-fucking-luya). Full review.

8 Dear Doctor I'm Coming for Your Soul (Thai 2022 iQIYI)

This is a romance between a doctor trying to save his patients and a reaper who is both his enemy and (eventual) lover (basically the genius premise of a gay Doom at Your Service). High concept looks good on you, Thailand. It’s lovely to see KarnNat back on screen together and they are still great, and Karn is just as painfully beautiful as ever. I enjoyed this one more than its ending deserved, and the best I can say is that it’s not strictly HEA but if you’re okay with Life: Love on the Line, you’ll be okay with this BL. It’s set up well, there’s no surprise unpleasantness like HIStory 3: The BL that shall not be named. Full review.

9 Destiny Seeker (Thai 2023 WeTV)

A darn near perfect pulp featuring 3 likable grumpy/sunshine pairings with uncomplicated iterations of enemies to lovers. At least one half of each does a decent amount of pining and there’s good chemistry, classic tropes, and excellent communication rep. It’s fun and full of linguistic jokes. Sublimely cheesy but a good rainy day offering with tons of rewatch potential. (Also WAR PEANUTS!) Full review.

10 Make a Wish (Thai 2023 grey)

A doctor who can see the dead strikes a bargain with a wish-granting irreverent tree angel - naturally they fall in love (from Sammon: Manner of Death & Triage). Stars Fluke Natouch opposite not Ohm, but who cares because Fluke has chemistry with everybody. Once again the Thai afterlife is incredibly bureaucratic but I enjoyed the premise and the unfolding of the story (it’s not predictable but still satisfying and with nice little twist). I like that the doctor is just gay AF - fag hag bestie and made of swagger. The cast is excellent but the comedic stylings are a bit overblown and tonally off. It has sad parts and did make me cry but is ultimately happy with a great sex scene, good smiley kisses, and all the agency.

10 others I rarely see anyone talk about:

Triage - Many would put this at the top of the list, but I don't find it very rewatchable and that weighs a lot in my assessments. Still it is GOOD and very underrated. BL does Groundhog Day featuring a doctor stuck in a time loop who must save a poor little rich boy from death by seducing the stuffing out of him, then PLOT TWIST, poor little rich boy must do the same for doctor! Unfortunately… stuffing keeps leaking. I thought the plot was engaging if a little redundant and occasionally exhausting. The pairs were all well done, low heat but with decent chemistry and the support characters were likable (or unlikeable, as required). My reason it's not in the top 10? If anything, the romance arc detracted and distracted from the main plot, but that doesn't stop this from being a genuinely good show it's just time loop is not a trope I personally enjoy. Review here.

See You After Quarantine? - This under appreciated gem is Taiwan’s answer to Gameboys and is just as charmg and adorable yet still as quintessentially Taiwanese as one might hope. It features a Japanese love interest and the cutest most confused disaster gay. Slow burn because the two have almost no actual screen time together and yet manage some truly amazing chemistry. Honestly how does Taiwan do it?

The Tasty Florida - I don't know, maybe it's Speed nostalgia, but I love this one, classic Korean BL with all those strengths and flaws... but The Prettiest.

You Make Me Dance - it's Korea but somehow they got this one, maybe by featuring mature characters and a real world crisis? Also they both ve hot.

Blueming - at the time it got a lot of attention but it seems to have faded into obscurity under the shod of The 8th Sense and Love of Love's Sack. This was a precurser to both and well worth a watch if you like it when Korea gets a little gritty.

Love Stage!! (Thai version) - I liked this IP alerady more than most. But this is the best of the 4 adaptations, and the first full Thai version of Japanese IP. It's both charming and notable in the industry. Hard to find and that's why it gets so little creddit but I think it's well worth the effort to track down.

Oh! Boarding House - I think most who watched this din't jive with it because it's an ensamble piece witha wicked love traingle. But I really enjoyed it. It felt like the move Kdrama BL that Korea has given us and I like me some Kdramas.

What Zabb Man! - one of the better BLs to come out of Star Hunter in the last few years. I like this pair a lot more than most, and the sides are wicked great. This is probably one of my favorite food themed BLs, actually.

2 Moons The Ambassador - possibly the lowest scoring BL to appear on this list but I just really like the leads. Nothing else is good, but they are kinda awkwardly fantastic. I also like how gay af the seme is.

Stay By My Side - This show was an interesting take on the "ghost boyfriend" trope. About a boy who is tormented by hearing the dead, except when he is around one other boy - desperation+proximity = love. Despite a strong initial premise it ended up mostly being enjoyable for sappy domesticity but nothing more. Still, I always give extra credit for the diabetes-inducing sugar content and rewatch capacity.

Requested by the lovely @l1xyz

FYI: I judge “underrated” on the strength of what I see people talk about (or more precisely not talk about) on social media, MDL reviews, and YouTube watch numbers (when available, as compared to comparable shows from the same country). 

Because of this, statistically, there will always be quite a few BLs that are difficult to get hold of.

Here's my pulls of the Top Underrated BLs prior to 2021. Considering the amount of content generated over the last few years, the pool to draw from is likely about the same.

My Top 10 Most Underrated BLs prior to 2021

Seven Days

Restart after Come Back Home

Wish You

Nobleman Ryu’s Wedding

He’s Coming to Me

Oxygen

My Day

Most Peaceful Place

HIStory 2: Right or Wrong

HIStory: Obsessed

I'd throw Great Men Academy in there, but I always dither over whether it actually is a BL.

[bengiyo]

Good evening 😊 What were 5 hidden gems/underrated series for you this year and what made them special in your opinion?

Josi! So happy to see you playing the game!

Jack o' Frost

This show was a beautiful close to the first year of Drama Shower. After five shows about people getting together for the first time, we got a show about a couple trying to stay together. I love the reveal that a big part of their problem was both of them were holding back because of some notion about losing the relationship. We did not give this show enough flowers.

The Day I Loved You

I am part of the problem on this one. This show is fundamentally tragic, but it was so beautiful along the way. I don't think I've seen a show handle a young person facing a debilitating terminal illness better in recent years. This show was truly special, and I think all of you should go watch it.

Wedding Plan

I know y'all are tired of me talking about this show, but I will never get off my soapbox about how we actually should engage with work from creators we've criticized that show that they're taking the feedback and incorporating it into their work. This has one of the strongest queer narratives of the year that also involves lesbians in a meaningful way.

Love Class 2

I barely remember Love Class 1. It had little staying power with me. This show isn't necessary the best of K-BL this year, but it's way better than I expected and does a good job of balancing heat and drama with the relative fame of the talent. I also really enjoyed J-Min's performance overall. This show also did Friends to Lovers, and so it gets a nod from me. I also think this show captured the exact amount of friendliness and knowledge of each other that a college friend group and acquaintances would have.

Sing My Crush

I think those of us who watched it really appreciate this show, but iQIYI caused so many problems with the way they dropped all of this for premium subscribers the same week as Heartstopper and then dolled it out two episodes a week for VIP users. I think this show generally got overshadowed by everything else airing around it at the time, but the way Han Baram was bullied into the closet and then couldn't express how much he loved his friend was one of the best executed homophobic storylines of the year. It also let me write about male anger, so that's a huge plus.

Ask Me Top 5 BL 2023 Anything

[the-conversation-pod]

Dispatch! (The Ossan's Love Episode)

And we're back!

NiNi and Ben bring our friend @twig-tea to the show to talk about the entire Ossan's Love series. We'll talk about the way this franchise evolves over time, the difficulties of comedy, what it means to love older queer men, and how this show tackles the complexities of family and masculinity.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction and Some Context 00:06:25 - Ossan’s Love History and Summary 00:13:42 - The Characters 00:28:23 - Love or Dead and In The Sky 00:39:00 - Ossan’s Love Returns 00:45:33 - Final Thoughts and Ratings

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Introduction and Some Context

Ben

And we're back! 

This week, we are covering all of Ossan's Love, from 2016 through 2024. We have brought on a special guest for this special episode as we're going to talk about the longest-running BL project. We have brought on our friend @twig-tea.

Twig

Hello.

NiNi

Hi, Twig. Welcome to the show.

Twig

Thank you so much for having me.

NiNi

New friend of the pod. Super excited to have you here. Twig is what we delightfully referred to as a ‘fandom old.’ I'm very excited to be having this conversation with two fandom olds in here, Twig and Ben, because, dear listeners, I have not had the time to watch Ossan's Love, so this is gonna be interesting. Ben and Twig are gonna school me.

Twig

We'll do our best.

Ben

This is going to be an interesting episode because we're going to be talking about a project that was somewhat overlooked by fandom, myself included, until the last couple of months. And I'm a little bit salty about it, and so I wanted to bring on somebody who has watched all of this in real time, and I thought that their perspective would be helpful. 

Twig, you are new to our listeners. Why don't you tell them a little bit about yourself in fandom and your history with queer cinema and BL?

Twig

I actually started on the GL side, which is a little bit different than I think a lot of folks in the BL fandom. I started with getting into Sailor Moon and got involved with a group of women who started Yuricon. The first Yuricon was held in Newark, NJ, in 2003 and I was the secretary. 

From there, there just wasn't enough GL content, and so I got into BL, too. I was really into Japanese manga, was part of a few scanlation groups, got oversaturated, stepped away, came back in 2016 to be shocked at the fact that a whole lot of the stuff that I used to watch was now made into live action. 

The YouTube algorithm in late 2016—early 2017—fed me Lovesick and I sort of went, “Hello. What's this?” Then watched Make it Right and was hooked on Thai BL. Tried to backfill as much as I could, so I watched Gray Rainbow, and Diary of Tootsies, and all this stuff that nobody talks about, really, anymore. 

One of the things about fandom at that time was that the way you found stuff was digging and a prayer, and random people making random lists, and it was very hard to tell how good those lists were. And so I managed that by watching everything and making my own opinions. And that is why I watched Ossan’s Love when it aired, or as soon as I could get my hands on it.

NiNi

So we're talking like real, real old school. We're talking about “Oh God, maybe some fansubber might help us out here.”

Twig

Fuckin’, like, Internet relay chat.

NiNi

IRC was my job back in the day.

Twig

Yes!

NiNi

I was talking about other things—not BL, but I was there.

Ben

Twig has sketchy as shit DVDs that were handed to her by a fan that have not great rip but really solid subs.

Twig

Bought in a mall parking lot with Mandarin subtitles that we used to watch with my friends who spoke Mandarin so they could translate for us in real time. It was hard. We used to walk uphill both ways back in the day.

Ben

A lot of folks who have been in this for a long time—we joked that we watched everything because we had to. You have done a better job of keeping track of what you've watched.

Twig

I wish I'd done better. I only really started tracking things in 2020. I did try to backfill the years before that, but I only really captured all of the major series. There was so many shorts, and things like that, I just couldn't do. But my spreadsheet has about 600 things on it, 606 as of today.

Ben

Incredible.

NiNi

I have been watching media overall—like seriously watching media—for…30 years…and I have not watched 606 of anything.

Ben

Nah, I believe her. It adds up. I engage with close to 100 BLs every year for the last 2-3 years.

NiNi

Clearly I'm not in these streets with y'all.

[Twig laughs]

Ben

I'm so glad Twig has showed up because it has given me permission to not watch so much.

NiNi

I bow down to you guys, because there was a point in time where, trying to keep up with week-to-week, I was watching something like eight shows at a time and I literally felt like my head was on fire. So, I don't know how you guys do it.

Ben

Practice. [laughs]

NiNi

We talked about this on the show, how last year I watched 50 things, maybe, for the whole year, and I felt like I was losing my mind. I usually watch like 15.

Ben

50 is good. Like, that's a really healthy number.

Twig

That is. That's pretty solid.

NiNi

As in five-zero? 

Ben

Yeah, no, that's great!

NiNi

A year?! 

Ben

Yeah! And we made a whole fucking show out of it! It’s good!

NiNi

Deep breaths. Okay, let's continue. Let's go on. [laughs]

00:06:25 - Ossan’s Love History and Summary

NiNi

Let's get into Ossan's Love. Ben, do the honors, tell us what is Ossan's Love about?

Ben

Actually, I want to do this one a little bit differently. 

NiNi, you have not engaged with Ossan's Love. The most you have is the fandom vibe on it from the periphery. What is your impression of Ossan's Love prior to all of us posting a lot about the new show?

NiNi

When you say periphery, I think you're being incredibly generous. There was one where they’re flight attendants maybe, or something to do with an airline. I am aware of that. And then there was something with a boss. There was a thing about a shower. There's some dirty jokes that go over my head because they're referential to this show. But in terms of my awareness of Ossan’s Love, it's honestly not much. 

Did I get any of those things correct by the way?

Twig

You totally did.

Ben

You did. I almost shouted “Dispatch” when you mentioned the airport. [Twig and Ben laugh] 

All right. So, I will give what I knew of Ossan's Love prior to earnestly engaging with it: Ossan's Love is a workplace-set drama in which a guy who works in an office is being pursued by a colleague of the same age as him and his boss—who is like 20-plus-odd years older than him. At the time when I didn't watch it, the fandom vibe on it was that it was fairly offensive, particularly around the old guy character. And, when it was hard to find this show, I was like, “Whatever, I'm not going to work that hard for a show that people seem really put off by.” I have had to make sure that I check if I am riding an old fandom opinion from prior to 2019 when it comes to older work, because those opinions are usually not informed by the lens that I use. And so I decided to engage with Ossan's Love properly. 

Before we start describing what the show is specifically, Twig, what do you remember about your experience watching the show in real time and the popular opinions about it?

Twig

So, the first thing is real time had really different meanings back then because we didn't have international distribution. It was sort of when things were fan subbed and when you could find them and knew they existed. So, I actually didn't get to watch the short until years after the original. So my first outing with Ossan’s Love was season one. 

At the time, it felt like if you liked it, you should be quiet about it, because the opinion was so negative that you would be shouted down if you said anything positive about it. So I just sort of stayed in my corner of enjoyment and tried not to think too hard about it.

Ben

That is unfortunately how I remember it being. It was not popular to say positive things about Ossan’s Love at the time. Even the fans of Ossan's Love seemed super ambivalent about the second season, which was an alternative universe.

Twig

Yeah. When Season 2 aired it was an even wider swing. The people who really loved Season 1 seemed to hate Season 2. I actually like Season 2 better than Season 1, so I was even more like, [laughs] “Okay, I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, guys, so I'm just gonna stay over here and let you all have your opinions over there.”

Ben

So our quick timeline: we have Ossan’s Love the TV special in 2016. We have Ossan’s Love the TV show airing during spring of 2018. They released the movie Ossan’s Love: Love or Dead —that went into theaters on August 23rd of 2019—and then a few months later, in November, they released Ossan’s Love: In The Sky. It's my understanding that Ossan’s Love Returns was originally supposed to air in, like, 2020-2021. They've returned to that project this year in 2024.

NiNi

I know they're going to be doing a Thai version of this coming up and they also have the Hong Kong version?

Twig

That's right. Yep. There was a Hong Kong version in I think 2021 or 2022.

NiNi

I love when they take a property and they remake it across cultures over and over again. I'm always intrigued to see how they turn out.

Ben

Have you watched the Hong Kong version, Twig?

Twig

I peeked at it. It's really true to season one in a lot of ways. I haven't actually watched it all the way through because I was like, “If I want to rewatch season one, I'll just rewatch season one.”

Ben

I feel like I have to watch it at some point. 

All right, so let's get into Ossan’s Love properly now: Ossan’s Love is about a 33 year old man named Haruta who is a slob. He is a hot mess of a man. He cannot take care of himself. He lives with his mom, and she does all the housework. She decides to bail on him and go run off with the hot new man she's with. And so he asks his colleague, whose name is Maki, to move in with him to help him out because Maki is very good at house chores. 

He learns accidentally that his boss, whose name is Kurasawa Musashi, has had a crush on him for a long time and also simultaneously learns that Maki has been crushing on him for a long time. Hijinks ensue as the two of them begin aggressively pursuing him, and he is not prepared for this sudden surge in gay activities.

Twig

One thing I add to your description, Ben, is it's a comedy.

Ben

So this is where things get a little bit complicated. Comedy is hard to do correctly, because a big part of comedy is playing with people's preconceptions of how an interaction should go. A lot of folks struggle with Japanese comedy because they're just not aware of the expectations for how an interaction should go, and so the humor is not landing on them, and this can happen even in your own culture. Like, if you showed a teenager today Airplane, many of the jokes in that movie would make no sense to them because they're missing some of the cultural context. Some of that exists with peoples engagement with Ossan's Love, I think.

Twig

I think that's right.

00:13:42 - The Characters 

Ben

The big part about Ossan's Love that impresses me is how the show gets better each time they come back. There are things that are kind of yikes in the short that are tweaked out in the first show. There are things that they retooled Haruta and Kurosawa over in the airport season. And then, in the most recent season, Ossan's Love Returns, they've shifted where the focus of their storytelling is after everything that's going on. So we are seeing the same characters, but they're dealing with much different dynamics. 

So, Ossan's Love Returns was a completely acceptable point for a lot of people to jump on, and I almost just jumped on. But, I like to know how we got here. So I was like, “I must watch all of this first!” [laughs]

NiNi

I was about to say on what point were you ever gonna just jump on without going back into the before times? You, sir, are a historian and a completionist.

Ben

Of course. And so I went back and watched. 

Twig, since you didn't have a lot of people to talk about Ossan's Love with at the time, how about you talk about your impressions of Haruta, Maki, and Kurosawa when you first engaged with it?

Twig

The thing that stuck with me is that, even in 2018, it felt a little more queer than a lot of the other stuff I was watching alongside it at the time. Haruta and Maki, and all of the characters, play into that in different ways. Haruta is an extremely frustrating character. I just wanted to reach through the screen and strangle him through most of season one, and I think that's partially intentional. 

Haruta is set up as the literal straight man. He's there to be what your average straight guy reaction might be when confronted with gayness, and everyone around him literally slaps him and tells him he's being an idiot. Delightful, but it doesn't make the character himself very likable at first. The fact that he grows on you anyway, even while he's being so frustrating, speaks to the other strengths in his character: his kindness, and the way he values his coworkers. And I think the later seasons did a really good job of picking up the things that made Haruta such a great character, and enforcing that in the character writing itself to make him more likable overall. 

I loved Kurosawa from jump. I think he's [laughs] incredible. He lives life on 11, and I think watching an older man step through some of the more standard romance tropes very clumsily but earnestly is incredibly charming. 

Maki is the competent character. He's also a self-actualized gay man. He at no point questions his sexuality at all, has no crisis about it. He knows who he is and what he's attracted to. And that was also really refreshing for BL at the time.

NiNi

Describing the kind of character that Kurosawa is made me think of Ben describing characters like Shin from Minato's Laundromat. When you tend to see these younger characters who are full on gung-ho chasing after the ones that they like, people like that. But they don't like the boss because they don't think their character should be doing that.

Twig

When I was first telling Ben about my opinions about the show, I said one of the things I struggle with is whether Kurosawa is telling the joke or is the joke. I think the more I have watched and rewatched, especially in later seasons, they do a really good job of him being a funny character and we're not laughing at him. He's not the butt of the joke, he's just funny. The people who would be turned off by an old guy hitting on a younger guy no matter what were turned off by that character and the ones who were sympathetic to older men also having romance in their lives were turned off by the idea that it was a comedy.

Ben

The comedy in the way Kurosawa pursues Haruta is about the age gap, not the fact that he's an old man. It's that he's at a different stage of his life. He's not fumbling to figure out stuff, he knows what he wants and his time is limited, so he's pursuing it determinately and also because he's older, he's behaving in line with his generation.

Like, if you don't have friends who are more than 10 years older than you, sometimes you're going to get weirded out by their cultural stuff. Like right now, I'm reaching the age gap with some of the kids I tutor, and I had to deal with all the various iterations on rizz and I don’t like it. 

[Twig and NiNi laugh]

I had an 8 year old call himself The Rizzler the other day and I almost pushed him down.

Twig 

Oh no.

NiNi

Oh my God.

Ben

I understand the concern around Kurosawa. But that is not what I think the show is doing, and even if it accidentally does it, that is not the show’s intent. Haruta is dealing with the sudden shift in his relationships with men who are important to him. Maki was just like his friend and colleague, who he was low-key mooching off of to do housework for him, and he has to deal with the fact that the only reason Maki is willing to put up with him is because Maki likes him. With Kurosawa, a big part of their relationship is the fact that he respects and admires him so much. The relationship between them is very paternal in a lot of ways?

Twig

A mentorship.

Ben

Yeah, he sees Kurosawa as a respected mentor and Kurosawa respects Haruta as well as a valued member of his team. A big part of the show is them sorting out the way that affection complicates some of these relationships, and we as the audience have to struggle with why these men like this man. Haruta is fucking useless in the household. He may be good at his job, but he is horrible at house related stuff. And so the question is why would anyone want him? 

And this is not rhetorical for the show. They really want you to grapple with this. The fact that Haruta is kind of repulsive as a romantic interest is something the show wants you to think about. You have to work to understand why so many people are into Haruta, and I think this gets better overtime.

Twig

They do a really good job with all of the women characters in this show, which was super rare for the time and still worth saying. His best friend Chizu also is terrible at housework, but she's a woman, and so she's struggling with the expectation that she get married and she keeps talking about how she needs to find somebody who does for her what Haruta’s men are willing to do for him. I just love putting those two characters side by side. And the silent question that's asked of the audience. That's like, why is this okay for Haruta, but not for Chizu.

Ben

It's not really subtle. As the show goes on, Maki won't really commit to Haruta because Haruta is ostensibly straight. Maki is hesitant about full committing because it's hard to be gay, like you got a lot to face as a gay person and he doesn't know that Haruta is going to stand up to all that. He's kind of a waffly type of dude. He's kind of a people pleaser who won't really stand up to anyone. This is kind of good for him as a salesperson. It's obvious why all their clients like Haruta. But it makes him kind of unreliable as a partner because you're not certain he's going to hold ground with you when the world is telling you that you shouldn't be together. 

The first season ends on a really cool note, ‘cause Maki and Haruta break up and Haruta just falls apart. And Kurosawa moves in with him for a while to help take care of him. For Kurosawa, it's a romantic thing, but it very much feels like someone’s parent going to take care of their kid. Haruta recognized where he failed with Maki, and he starts trying to help out with house stuff a little bit. But it's not like he suddenly becomes like a great housekeeper. I really liked that choice, that he starts putting in an effort but he's still horrible at it. 

Kurosawa ends up proposing to Haruta. Haruta has a hard time saying no to people, so he accepts. Also, he used a flash mob. It's hard to say no when someone flash mobs you.

NiNi

Pause. Pause for cause.

Twig

Michael Jackson-themed flash mob.

NiNi

Okay, not pausing. Unpausing. Go ahead.

Ben

Kurosawa is always at 11. He is an incredible character and like he and Haruta are going to get married and at the altar, Kurosawa is like. You need to go to him. You don't actually want to be here. And so Haruta runs to Maki and proposes to him at the end of the first season. 

And then there's just an incredible supporting cast in the show. I don't think we have time to talk about all of them properly, but. Haruta’s friend Chizu’s older brother Teppei runs a little bar diner that they often hang out at. He's so funny, always giving them weird gross food combinations to try out. They’re’s Maro, who's a member of their team who did not know Haruta’s given name for the years they worked together, there's Maika, who's kind of a nosy busybody at their work. She's a great source of comedy, ends up with Teppei. There's Takegawa, who's the second at their office in the first season, who is revealed to be Maki’s ex later. And he is intense as hell and becomes a complicating factor in the budding relationship between Haruta and Maki because he challenges Haruta. He's like, why is he putting this much effort into you? You suck! I really love the Takegawa character because he is a hot mess.

Twig

He just is so pained at Maki falling for a straight man. Something that is deeply relatable for anybody in queer spaces. [NiNi laughs] Like we have all been that person. Like, what are you doing to yourself?

Ben

I want to nod to Choko real quick. In the first season, Kurosawa has a wife of 30 years. Her name is Choko. Once his feelings for Haruta become known to Haruta, he decides he's going to pursue them and he tells this to his wife and they get divorced. She is understandably upset about this whole situation. But what's so great about it is, the show allows her to have a journey of figuring out what her life is going to be now that this information is out there. Like, she was hurt and upset at first, but then decides to support Kurosawa because this is her partner of 30 years and she understands him, so she ends up eventually supporting what he's trying to do with Haruta. And she ends up developing her own relationship with Maro. 

It's really cool in this show where there's this whole complicated thing about whether or not these three gay men are going to sort themselves out into various relationship configurations, they're also doing a pretty steep successful age gap romance between like a 30-something year old man and a woman approaching 60.

Twig

I love Choko's arc so much. It's the one thing that stayed with me the most. She is also allowed to be funny. She's silly and immature in the same ways that the male characters are. She's not perfect either. And I think that is super important that she's a complicated character. 

I think it's really important that this show talks about the ways in which homophobia and being in the closet hurts everyone, not just gay people. I think this show does a good job of at least alluding to the fact that the hurt that's caused by people having to live lies makes waves in communities.

NiNi

I like when they put that on older characters, as well. There's so much to unpack when you're talking about a life lived in the closet, emerging from a life lived in the closet later on in life. What you're gonna do with that life and how you're gonna treat it. From what you guys are saying about Kurosawa, it’s like he just decided to take life by the balls once he came out of the closet, and that's always something that I enjoy seeing.

Ben 

I guess, well, on some of the negatives. The humor is choppy in the first season. You do have to recalibrate as you're watching. It is very funny, but in ways that are unexpected. You will end up feeling a sense of revulsion in the show, particularly to season one Haruta. When I started going back to it, I had a difficult time with the first episode because I'm asking myself why would anyone want to fuck this man? [NiNi and Twig laugh] That is a real and valid reaction that you have to work with as you're watching the show. And so parts of it are a little bit difficult to watch in that regard. 

And Kurosawa is a huge character. You have to take time to get to know him and understand him and understand where his behaviors are coming from. And if you're not willing to do that work, the show is super off putting. 

Twig 

It is loud. You do have to allow your comedy ear to calibrate to its shouting. 

Ben 

However, I will say that if you want to see romance in BL about older characters, Ossan’s Love is right there. The entire drama is about 30-somethings and much older dealing with life and love. There is no wistful stuff about “things were easier when we were kids” in this show at all. It is very much grounded in the perspective and dramas that people in their 30s and 40s and 50s are dealing with in life and romance. 

Twig 

I feel like the one other thing that I always feel the need to call out about the first season is Haruta, because of what his character is struggling with, is physically uncomfortable with displays of affection, and particularly with kissing, in the first season. And that can be off putting too, but he makes it clear verbally that he's not actually against physical affection, he's just familiar with it? It is one of the things that the show does better later on.

00:28:23 - Love or Dead and In The Sky

Ben 

Let's talk about the movie! Ossan’s Love: Love or Dead. 

Twig 

[laughs] Every time I think about that title, it makes me laugh, ‘cause it's just so extra. 

NiNi 

I'm sorry, Love or Dead? 

Ben

Mhmm.

Twig 

Oh yeah. 

Ben 

The premise of this movie is at the end of season one, Haruta got an opportunity to go work in Shanghai for about six months, and the guys are going to be facing a separation for a bit. There's drama when Maki goes to pick up Haruta ‘cause he's found in a compromising position, and a big part of this is Maki still dealing with his anxiety around whether or not Haruta can be a partner to him. Maki gets selected to be part of this high-powered real estate team, and there's a bunch of drama that unfolds involving a partnership with a drug peddling organization and then we end on like an action note where they have to rescue Haruta from a burning building. 

Twig 

There are explosions. 

Ben 

Lots of explosions. 

NiNi 

This sounds… delightful. This sounds like exactly my kind of crack. 

Ben 

You should watch it sincerely. 

Twig 

It is delightful. 

Ben 

If you're not certain about Ossan’s Love, legit, watching Ossan’s Love: Love or Dead is not a terrible place to start. It's a two-hour outing that covers the basic ground of the franchise, has some really strong moments, and is super cracked out. 

What's so fun in it is, we talk about the retooling of the characters. In season one, Maki and Kurosawa beef a lot over Haruta and legit get into physical brawls over it. This is a feature of the entire franchise. These men scrap on the regular. There's this great moment when they're trying to rescue Haruta from this building where Kurosawa's role as their mentor comes through and he reads Maki about how he's always holding back in the relationship. That's what I think works for me the most in this franchise, the collective love that everyone has for each other. It's true that Kurosawa is not going to succeed as a romantic rival to Maki in this story, but that doesn't mean that he's not important to everyone and everything going on. And I really, truly love that. 

Twig 

His mentorship relationship with Maki really starts to flourish in the movie, the moment where Maki’s hanging off of a ledge and Kurosawa is helping him physically back onto the ledge so he doesn’t fall into the flames, but also verbally telling him what he needs to do to save his relationship. This movie is not subtle with its metaphors. But it's such a good moment where we realize that Kurosawa plays that role for Maki, too, of a mentor, and that he's willing to do it for the relationship, even at the same time as being a love rival. And it sets up the new season really well. 

Ben 

The movie matters to the timeline of the series. The movie is not just some sort of one off moment that occurs. The events of the movie are built into the characters, and it was the beginning of them retooling how these characters function. 

NiNi 

This sounds like a very experimental type of series, just the way that they do different things each time. While they are refining their central characters and the central storylines, they're also experimenting with style and tone, and a number of other things it feels like? 

Twig 

I think that's really true. One of the things about the movie that's really fun is it's the first instance of sports in the series. We get Justice playing basketball with Haruta and working his feelings out through basketball. 

Ben 

JUSTICE!!! [Twig and Ben laugh]

Twig 

Love and peace! And that becomes a huge part of the AU and also part of Ossan’s Love Returns that I think really adds to the experience. They try things out and then if it works, they pick it up and add and yes, and it, and then they pull out the things that didn't really work. I find that really interesting to watch happen. 

NiNi 

The concept of something being iterative like that in real time, it's not for everybody. 

Ben 

This series went on to do something super experimental where a couple of months after they released a continuation movie promising that these characters would get back together, they released an alternative universe season where only Haruta and Kurosawa were present from the original cast, and now we're at an airport dealing with a completely different set of characters and a slightly different dynamic. 

It also gave Twig and I our favorite bit. 

Twig

[laughs] Dispatch! 👍

Ben

Dispatch! 👍 Oh my God. It is so funny, every single time. 

NiNi 

Every time. 

Ben 

Every episode has at least two dispatch moments. [Twig laughs] It's so fucking funny. 

Twig 

Sometimes it's to end a conversation. Sometimes it's to greet somebody, sometimes it's to shut down a conversation, distract from someone saying something you don’t want them to say. 

Ben 

So in this particular season, Kurosawa is still a leader. He is the captain of a flight crew. Haruta is a new flight attendant who is joining this team. In this case, Kurosawa is not Haruta’s long-term mentor who has been harboring a crush on him. He develops his crush in real time. Haruta moves into company housing and there's a slightly older guy there who's got a crush on Haruta, but he won't say anything about it. And then there's the meanest twink who's ever existed in BL. 

NiNi 

I mean y'all just seem to be giving me multiple reasons to watch this show at this point, so. 

Ben 

So in the second season, there's far more complicated people in the Haruta stuff. There's Kaname who is the older mechanic who lives in the dorms, and he's got this huge crush on Haruta, but he'll never say anything about it. Naruse is causing fucking problems all the time, because every time he has relationship drama and people show up at their airport to fuck with him about it, he just starts kissing Haruta to make people go away. And then people throw drinks in Haruta’s face over it. Because Tanaka Kei is a master of physical comedy. 

Twig 

One of the staples of the series is what I call the Haruta reaction supercut, where they just have multiple cuts of Haruta’s face as it morphs into more and more absurd huh, no, whaaa faces. He does bend his body in ways that's like a cartoon falling over, it's pretty incredible. 

NiNi 

Ben knows that I love physical comedy. 

Twig 

Yoshida Kotaro has incredible physical comedy, too. 

Ben 

Like if you ever want to see an old man try and kill an aging twink [Twig laughs], this is the show for you. 

I get why people who liked the first show bounced off of this, because the rest of the cast is gone. The supporting cast is a really strong part of the Ossan’s Love experience, but I really like the AU season because I think it allowed them to retool Haruta and Kurosawa. And retool the relationship between them to make it more about their mentorship. They're building that relationship in the AU season ‘cause they don't know each other. 

Twig 

The thing that I really like about the AU setup is because Haruta is coming into a new environment, we get to see him build his network of people around him over the course of the season. Showing us what's likable about Haruta because he has to charm all these people around him in order to get friends and build a community, is a really important piece of the puzzle that allowed me to get to like that character a lot more, because he was charming me at the same time. 

Ben 

We get a lot of great moments in the season. Kurosawa has been a pilot for 30 years and he decides to retire and everyone is sad about it. I'm sad about it, Twig is crying about it. 

Twig 

Mmhm. 

Ben 

He ends up inviting the three guys who we've mentioned out to hang out in the park with him. He has this sumo tournament with them where he's basically giving them the last bit of advice he's going to give them and it is, one of the most intensely emotional man moments I have had in this genre. I was losing it and I was crying. I was hollering and screaming, messaging Twig like, “Wake up, I need to talk about this right now, I don't care what you're doing. Get up.” 

Truly, it is one of the best moments in TV about the relationships between men that I have ever experienced, and it is this hyper ridiculous sumo wrestling moment in a gay romance drama in the AU season that is technically not canon, and it was the moment from the series that lingers with me the most. 

Twig 

Even in the moment they're looking at each other like, is this happening? How is this happening? This isn't real. Nobody does this. Nobody calls each other to the side of the river with a note [laughs] to hold a wrestling competition in which we talk about our feelings. 

Ben 

But it works really well. I ended up really loving the way it allowed us to think about these two men and the relationship between them. We get to appreciate how important Kurosawa is to Haruta. 

Twig 

That sumo wrestling moment allows us to see Kurosawa's relationships with all of his subordinates. The way he's so firm and so gentle with Naruse, with like “soft landing,” meanwhile, throws Haruta out of the ring. 

Ben 

The way he talks to all of these men as specific to them, like his role as leader is strongest in the AU season. My primary concern for the Thai adaptation is who is playing Kurosawa, because this character is as important as the romantic leads. 

Twig 

I think it's more important. 

Ben 

I am with Twig. Who is going to match Yoshida Kotaro in Thailand? I need to know. 

Twig 

I'm eagerly awaiting that announcement. 

NiNi 

The answer is going to be Nu Surasak or Kob Songsit.

Ben 

I really hope it's good. 

00:39:00 - Ossan’s Love Returns

Ben

Ossan's Love Returns reunites the original cast after five years. Maki is returning from an extended stint in Singapore, and now he and Haruta are gonna start their cohabitating married life together. Maki is now part of the super team at headquarters, following up on the movie. Haruta is still on the streets with regular folk, ‘cause that's where he wants to be. Kurosawa has retired, I liked that follow up from the AU season. And now he's working as a housekeeper. Maki is working too much and Haruta is still bad at house, and so they hire a housekeeper, who ends up being Kurosawa [Twig laughs] who cannot hold back his feelings for Haruta and it becomes one of the ongoing dramas of the season. 

One of the things I enjoyed in this season is… they explore how to integrate Kurosawa into their lives long term. Haruta is serious about Maki and committed to their romance. Kurosawa is also extremely important to him and he treats him like a father figure. They explicitly have Choko talk to Kurosawa about how a lot of the ways he feels [laugh] about Maki are a lot of the ways a mother-in-law might feel about their daughter-in-law with the way they beef with each other. And when we say they beef with each other, I mean, these two men are legit fighting in their kitchen, like Kurosawa hits Maki in the head repeatedly with a frying pan. Maki legit throws Kurosawa through a door at one point and knocks it off the hinges. These two men, when they scrap with each other, are fighting for real and I love it every time.

NiNi

It's just like you all conspired to come into this recording booth today and just be like, okay, so you say this and I'll say that and between us we're gonna get her to watch this, because she likes this kind of stuff.

Ben

I didn't really have to work that hard. We're just legit talking about what the show was doing. We get a really great season of Maki and Haruta settling into what their life is going to look like. There's some introduced new characters in the season that we all had very complicated feelings about who I think end up fitting fine by the end. Most of the original cast comes back and there's like a really great bit of exploring what all these characters settling into their relationships that they got into in the first season in this one. 

So Haruta and Maki are now living together and figuring out what that is going to look like, who are they gonna be as a couple now that they're not doing long distance ‘cause they've basically been long distance between every outing. Which I think was a clever choice because it means that the characters’ relationship dynamic doesn't really move that much between outings. 

Choko is now living with Maro and Maro’s mom, and Choko is struggling because she's older than Maro's mom. She can't just treat this woman like her mother-in-law. And Maro doesn't know how to help because he's caught between his wife, who's way older than him, and his mom, who's confused and a little bit uncertain about this whole dynamic.

Twig

I also love that that's not the only thing we see Choko having worked through in the time we've been apart from her. She opened an archery range after her divorce, and sort of reinvented herself with this new life that she's actually thriving in.

Ben

They get new neighbors who are a bunch of weirdos.

Twig

[laughs] They're so weird. They're so weird.

Ben

These two are revealed to be members of, like, a public security division that maybe doesn't actually exist. Izumi ends up becoming obsessed with Haruta because he's a doppelganger for his dead lover who was killed in the line of duty, who is very, very different from Haruta. It was fun to see Tanaka Kei play a very different type of character in those flashbacks. I don't know that it entirely landed for me over the course of the season, but by the finale, which was fantastic, I was okay with them.

Twig

A large part of the way they were written is that they were a mystery for a large part of it, too. It's hard to bond with a character that you know nothing about and is intentionally opaque.

Ben

Chizu is trying to make it as a single mom and this reinforces one of the big themes of the season, that family is all the people who are going to show up for you all the time. She relies on Teppei and Maika to help, and she feels guilty about this and they tell her straight up, like, don't feel guilty. We are a family. You should rely on us. 

She had already made Haruta and Maki designated adults who can pick up her kid from the daycare. An important gay right of passage is your friend calling you and telling you I need you to go pick up my kid, and then you show up at said kindergarten to pick up a kid and they look at your ID and they go “oh you're allowed” and the kid runs to you and everybody goes, well, that makes sense. An important gay moment that everyone must experience.

Twig

One of the things that I love about this so much is that it picks up from a throw away line that Chizu says in the movie. She sort of brags that she's going to balance having a kid and her career. One of the things about the series is that it really feels like the people who are writing it love the whole series and are constantly thinking about how to call back in loving ways and how to pick up threads in loving ways. Something that she just sort of confidently stated she was going to do no problem in the movie becomes a whole plot in the following season.

Ben

There's a final arc in the season where Kurosawa has a health scare where we think he's going to die.

Twig

When we were talking about it, Ben, you said that it was an important moment for Maki and Haruta to confront the idea that Kurosawa won't always be around. And I was like, oh, that's why I don't like this part because I don't want to ever think about that. [Twig and Ben laugh]

Ben

The entire finale is this really great examination about the way this whole group of people are a family to each other.

Twig

It's not even just that it's happening, but they're explicit about it. They're having conversations about what is family? What are we to each other? How do we define our relationship? Where do those lines get drawn? And the answer is just sort of, yes.

Ben

There's an explicit line, like, what is Kurosawa to them? And then Maika comes over and hammers it home for the audience and is like, “There's no need to describe it. What matters is you all are going to be part of each other's lives forever.”

00:45:33 - Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

I don't think we talked about it as much. So, the first season is pretty light on kissing and intimacy between the male characters. Ossan's Love Returns is not! There's so much married intimacy between Haruta and Maki.

Twig

The casual intimacy in Ossan's Love Returns is constant, and it just feels very lived in? They're just constantly touching each other and having small kisses and teasing each other.

Ben

We got more of that today in the unexpected special spin-offs we're getting. I was like “ohh, I thought we were done. Oh, it's another cute little 20-minute office episode ending on the two of them making out next to the copier.” Love it.

NiNi

This is called Forbidden Gout Temps Nouveau. 

Twig

Mhmm.

NiNi

I have so many questions, but I feel like I should not ask those questions right now.

Ben

My general attitude is you don't need to watch all of Ossan's Love to enjoy parts of Ossan's Love. I think if you are interested in gay domesticity and complex family units, you can just watch Ossan's Love Returns right away.

NiNi

I'm watching it all. Eventually. I don't know when. There's a lot going on in the IRL space right now, but I'm gonna be watching the whole thing.

Twig

I feel like I should say something about the original short. It has a lot of the things that people found the hardest to swallow about season one. A lot of the stuff that they did originally they fixed or did better as they moved through. I would say the short is the thing to skip, of all of it, unless you're really curious about the journey of this franchise.

NiNi

I'm really fascinated by the idea of this as a reserve process of working through and refining the show in kind of a real time. I would like to see the whole thing just for that purpose. I'm a writer, so the way that this feels like multiple drafts, and you getting to actually see the multiple drafts to see why they might have decided to make a particular change in the next draft, or why they would have gone for an overhaul, or what would they have tweaked around the edges. I like the idea of looking at that.

Twig

It is not just the writing that they iterate. We haven't talked a lot about the visual effects that this show uses, but it has its own style. One of my favorites: it uses the bokeh effect, where the lighting in the background is blurred and sometimes takes shapes. It starts from the very beginning. You'll see the lights behind Kurosawa make little hearts while he's confessing to Haruta and Haruta’s has little like stop signs. [Ben laughs] And then they get bigger and bigger with that where Kurosawa’s hearts have little like heartbreak. They have– there’s little, like, zigzags in the hearts behind him when he gets rejected. Sometimes he'll be crying tear lights. That’s just one of the things that they play with in the different versions.

Ben

Naruse having that whole tantrum trying to get someone's attention for help? Then having that super cut of them screaming and then smash cutting to them just sitting at the table. There's like the courtroom audio stinger that dominates the first season that I fucking love [mimics the sound] thing that happens over the course of the whole season. It's so, so dramatic, and I'm like, “Is Judge Mathis gonna walk out? What is happening?”

Twig

Oh, and they do this thing where they hard cut to a visual metaphor like water leaking out of a water bottle or a pot boiling to represent the character’s emotions. There's so many visual moments. It's not just written well and acted well. It's also represented visually really well, and seeing how they experiment with that and how that changes. Like, the weird bobble heads we got in the AU season. I'm still not over those. I'm glad those didn't return.

Ben

It is not a perfect show. This is not a “Everybody was wrong. They should have watched all of this. Grab your pitchfork!” situation. This is not an easy show to love. If you can find your way to loving the show, I think it has been one of the most rewarding watches I've had in the genre since What Did You Eat Yesterday? 

Japanese BL is different from Thai BL. More experimental and weirder things are gonna happen over time if the series has a lot of leg in it, and Ossan's Love is one of those that has so much leg in it. Like the second season just ended, and I'd be okay if we don't see them again, but, I really hope we do.

Twig

Me too.

NiNi

All right, so let's get into ratings. I mean, is this the kind of thing that you rate? Instead of rating, let's rank. If you had to rank the different parts of the Ossan's Love franchise, how would you rank them? In terms of, for you, most enjoyable to probably the least enjoyable?

Ben

Well, the least enjoyable is the original special. It's the most rough and the hardest to swallow. I think the best season is the current one?

Twig

Yeah. I mean, for me, it's basically chronological order, I think. I struggle between the film and the AU ‘cause I like them for different reasons, and I struggled with them for different reasons. But I think Naruse tips it over there so that it stays ahead.

Ben

[Ben and Twig laugh] I love that mean twink!

Twig

He's just so great.

Ben

I don't know that I'd want to…rank them that way. I think each outing adds something to it. It's really a question of, do you like seeing people try to get together for the first time, or do you really like seeing people be together? For me, I'm very partial to Ossan's Love Returns because it's about gay life drama, which is what I’ve wanted for a while. And so I'm really fucking enjoying that.

Twig

Yeah, I love it when people have to figure out, “Now that we're in this relationship, how do we make this work?”

Ben

But I also love the AU season. I think the retooling of Haruta and Kurosawa is actually really helpful. I think taking a break from Maki is actually helpful for appreciating Haruta when you come back to them. I think you end up liking Haruta more by the time you get to Ossan's Love Returns and seeing the potential in him. The love people are trying to pour on to him in the current season is more accessible to me as a viewer because I got to spend time with Haruta growing to love him in the AU season.

Twig

I also just have affection for an entire season that seems to have basically been built off of like a throwaway reference to episode one, when Haruta says he's most attracted to stewardesses. And then, and also, like, maybe a pun because Kurosawa’s character is called bucho which means, like, manager essentially through all of the regular Ossan's Love stories. But in the AU he's kucho because he's a captain. And I think that's very funny.

Ben

In terms of my ratings, I'm looking at on MDL, I gave Ossan's Love and Ossan's Love Returns a 9. But I gave the AU season a 9.5. [Ben and Twig laugh] So, there's your answer.

Twig

There you go.

Ben

Twig, what did you rate the second season? I know ratings aren't always your thing, but did you give the second season a rating?

Twig

I didn't. If I was going to give it a rating. Ossan's Love Returns? Yeah, I’d give it a 9.

Ben

It's a 9 for me in that I think if you're into BL, you should watch the show, but I don't know that it is the most accessible show, so I don't want to give it a 10.

Twig

I think the thing about this show, too, is it's about multiple relationships. It's not just about Maki and Haruta, and I wouldn't even say their relationship dominates the story. So, to rank it against other BL as a romance narrative is quite difficult. It's about family and what that means in a queer context. Part of that is romance, but it's not even the biggest part? The family feels is what gets me about this series.

Ben

That's going to do it for Ossan's Love. We have succeeded at our mission. NiNi has agreed to watch the show. Twig and I got to unpack the entirety of this whole franchise. We have the benefit of knowing it gets better over time now, and so I don't begrudge people bouncing when they did in 2018. I think that in 2024, it is beneficial for people who care about the history of the genre to go back and properly engage with Ossan's Love. I genuinely think it is worth reconsidering your initial opinion. They… grow. Their characters are not static. What has occurred is taken seriously and what worked and didn't work is considered as they move forward.

NiNi

That is going to wrap us up on the Ossan's Love episode. Twig, it was so great having you on, and I hope you come back.

Twig

Thank you so much for having me. It was really fun.

NiNi

With that, we out. Say bye to the people, Twig.

Twig

Dispatch!👍

Ben

Dispatch! 👍

NiNi

At some point I'm going to find out what that means, and then I will be unstoppable. Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace.

[originalwombatfart]

Echo Visual Novel Playlist!

Hey all! Last year I played Echo, and by god has it stuck with me. From the story, art, characters, and generally just how naturally all the queer stuff felt during my time reading. I highly suggest anyone who had not played it yet to check it out, but be warned it is not for the faint of heart!

My and my partner made this playlist over the course of 4 months! It had 4 hours of songs that we tried to fit into vibes, characters, and themes. Here is my breakdown of what each song fits to. A in depth breakdown would be it's own video essay so the breakdown is imperfect, but I think this cover most of them well enough. Of course some songs are put into multiple categories and it's easy to understand why.

-Chase: Bottom of the River, Christmas Kids, Spanish Sahara, I Scared All My Friends Away, Underwater, Blood On My Name, Same Drugs, Little Secrets, The view Between Villages, Am I Dreaming,

-Jenna: Piano Fire, Fast Car, My Silver Lining, Re: Re:, Distance, Facebook Drama, Nothing You Can Take From Me, Best Friend

-Leo: Christmas Kids, Ribs, Cha-Ching, 27 Reasons, Got You, Same Drugs, I Love You So, Favorite Poison, Two Birds

-TJ: Christmas Kids, The Good, Lions Roar

-Carl: You are Stronger, Tree House, Close Tonight, Numbers, 2/14, Cold Weather, The Dead Come Talking, Fall Asleep, Tongue Tied, Panic Attack, I haunt ur dreams

-Flynn: Bottom of the River, Turn the Lights off, Wild Side, I Scared All My Friends Away, Allies or Enemies, Blood On My Name, Key Plus Words, Never Love an Anchor, Can't Catch Me Now, A Toast and A Spirit, Dirty Little Secrets, Panic Attack

-Sydney: Underwater, Allies or Enemies, Can't Catch Me Now, Unconditional Love, The Dead Come Talking, Father, I haunt ur dreams

-Brian: Lovely Bastards

-Tetanus Alley Gang: Cause for Concern, Remember Me

-The Group as a whole: No Instructions, I'd rather go blind, Nothing's New, Photos from When We Were Young, One Day, Running Away, Everyone's a VIP to Someone, Normal People Things, Escapism, Theseus (Good Endings), Hey Lover, Nevermind Everything is Okay, Circles,

-Town of Echo: Everything Stays, Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Hanging Tree, No Glory in the West, Muddy Waters, Breakers Roar, Never Be Alone

-Vibes: You're Not Here, Theme of Laura, Space Song, Beyond Desolation (Bad Endings), dream (they do be dreaming), Serenity

Overall Very proud of the work we put in! A few songs didn't make the cut, but I am satisfied with the list we have. Four hours is a lot! Let me know if you wan individual explanations on why we put a song on the list.

Edits: (update list and added songs to certain categories)

[suffertime]

oh shit forgot i had this thing, anyway

if you guys remember a little while back i did some advertising of a horror rpg podcast that im a part of called Camp Moonmirror!

WELL DO I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU

Do you like shirts of rare internet podcasts you (probably) know nothing about? Do you like posters of characters from said podcast that is (maybe) a mystery to you? Do you like stickers that are really cool regardless of your knowledge of the source material?

@studiooutthere presents: MERCH!

Backing our kickstarter would mean so much to us, and it would help keep the podcast going! All products are hand made by us so we can assure quality and precision. Even if you can’t support us monetarily, check out our show on YouTube & Spotify, or even spreading the word to your friends who may enjoy our stuff means the world to us!

We are a studio of five queer internet kids who have a dream and a passion for our creation, and this is only one small step in our journey to bringing beautiful & meaningful stories to life, and we’d love to have you along the way!

Here are some of our links!

(We’re still catching up to current episodes on YouTube, but we have a bunch of bonus content there for you to enjoy!)

(We started season 2 in October of last year, so there’s plenty of episodes to catch up on over on Spotify! Our next episode releases on April 1st!)

https://x.com/studiooutthere?s=21&t=KlT4nGWiQek2RDNMxOQ69w

(We are most active over on Twitter, but we also do have a Bluesky account @ studiooutthere.bsky.social if Twitter isn’t your thing)

Thank you so much!

[louisferrignojr]

I would have loved it if Bucks whole sponsor storyline had more emotional impact than just "buck is ready for kids but is hamster wheeling his relationships" - the connect between feeling like a spare parts kid, KNOWING that he wasn't actually wanted, and knowing that Connor and Kameron(?) wanted him (sort of), could have been explored with more nuance and it would have been so 🤩🤩🤩.

Tbh even just how Buck feels about his body - from hurting himself for attention and using sex to avoid intimacy and THEN learning that he's a donor sibling for a dead brother - and then learning he's queer - all of it is so specific to how buck feels about his body as a whole and it would have made such an awesome storyline

that's what i've been saying! i personally love the sperm donor storyline because it happens after he learns he was made for spare parts and he CHOOSES to donate some spare parts to his friend so they can start their own family - it's about the CHOICE - even though we see him struggling with it. s6 was such an interesting season for buck's development because we see him struggling with not being chosen for interim captain, asking bobby "you don't think i'm at ease?" and asking hen "what do you think it is, the secret to happiness?" and then reminiscing about his adventures, choosing to be a sperm donor for connor and kameron, the coma dream full of lessons and affirmations, and trying to deal with the aftermath of his temporary death. hands down fave buck season. they messed it up by trying to get him with natalia (because the show was not being renewed and we can't have people end up single? the horror!) and bringing back kameron to crash at his flat as if she doesn't have anyone else to go to...? fucking bizarre choices. 6b suffered from the impending doom lmao.

anyway! sometimes canon only gives us half a story and we have to dig a little deeper and use the source material to do our meta analyses and try to understand what it says about our favourite character. and i'm really hoping to see buck being confident and settled in s8, even if he's dealing with the fuckery at his workplace, i want to see that he's in a good place in his relationship with tommy, that they're good together, they're still communicating and being open and there's no bullshit like jealousy and exes and cheating and all that cheap drama crap lmao. i want to see buck who makes choices for himself as his own person and what that means for his relationship with tommy.

and while i'm here, because i've talked about wanting madney to have another baby, and i see people say "but it was so bad the first time with the postpartum syndrome etc etc" and once again i want to see maddie CHOOSE to get pregnant again - it's about the CHOICE - i want to see her say yes i want to do this, i've been through it before, and i learned a lot, i healed a lot, and i can do this with the support of my husband and a therapist and a local group for expecting or new mothers.. because the first time around: it was a surprise pregnancy, and she had thyroid problems that no doctor had apparently thought to check? or her having her nursing background? (that SL has some issues for me personally because i know it was done due to actress unavailability lol, i would have done a better job with it no offence) and because this is a fictional show, we can write characters who go through a second pregnancy as a healing experience - something that is hard to do IRL cause life is unpredictable, you know? i wouldn't advocate this for a real life woman is what i'm trying to say but maddie is ficitonal and i can make her have positive experiences. anyway!

excited to see my beloved buckleys in s8 <3

[brandstifter-sys]

Sink or Swim

@dukexietyweek 2024 Day 3 - Music + Dreams

Word Count: 2489 (Ao3)

Rating: T

Pairing: Dukexiety

Characters: Remus, Virgil

Warnings: Genderfluid!Remus (Reina on fem days), self depreciation, songfic, high school, confessions

Virgil has a good life and a loving spouse, and he can't help but dream about the day all the pieces fell into place

---

It was late in the evening when Virgil got home from work. He was tired and needed to unwind quietly without waking the kids and his genderfluid partner. 

He found himself on the couch looking through old photo albums, wistfully getting taken back in time. It was hard to imagine that high school ended twelve years ago. It was even harder to imagine how much he changed from those days. Not only could he grow facial hair, but he was taller and less of a twig. 

Virgil stretched out on the couch and closed his eyes, laughing internally at some old memories, like the day he joined the baseball team, or when he finally got to dye his hair. But nothing compared to one of the best days of his life. 

That memory brought a smile to his face as he drifted off.

Hey kid, just give it a shot 

Virgil was a mess of nerves, hiding in his old, oversized hoodie as he traveled from class to class. Aside from his spot on the baseball team, he was a nobody, a shadow in a sea of teen drama. 

He flipped his dark sidebangs from his face and clutched his backpack straps tightly. He just finished Trigonometry and he was headed straight for Film History, where his pulse always skyrocketed. 

He could admit that his hormones were on the fritz, but he knew that the real cause of his nerves was one person. Reina, or Ree, as she preferred, could very easily give him a heart attack. And this was the day he would risk it all. 

It's a chance you'll never get back, like it or not 

It was spring, the perfect time to get ice cream and hang out in the park. Virgil already had a plan, and a couple back up ideas. He just had to get his ass in gear before he missed his window of opportunity. 

But that was easier said than done.  

He rounded a corner and his heart sank. Ree was surrounded by her friends just outside the History classroom. They were mostly girls, chatting away about stuff Virgil refused to listen in to. 

He curled into himself and bit his lip. How the hell was he supposed to ask her out with an audience? 

You have to hold your head high and put those fears aside

And then one of her friends noticed him approaching. She spoke in a hushed whisper and giggled. Reina had the nerve to blush adorably. 

Virgil hated that he had to go to that exact classroom. He hated how pathetic he looked. 

What chance did he have with her? He was just some queer weirdo. He didn't even have jock status despite being on the baseball team. 

You think she'll walk away, ignoring what you say

Reina wasn't super popular like her brother, but she had friends and enemies. She was friendly, kind, and quirky. She could spend time with whoever she wanted. She didn't need to waste her time with him. 

It would make more sense for her to ignore him, to surround herself with likable people. Hell, it was a mistake on her part for considering him a friend, if at all. He really wasn't worth her time. 

It's kinda funny how she gets under your skin 

But then she broke away from her group and approached him. She had a certain bounce to her gait that drew attention to her. Everything about her was adorable from her wry smile to her wily wavy hair. 

Virgil hated how he just wanted to hold her and kiss every freckle on her face. He hated how he could crumble from a silly little glance. 

You tell yourself to run, when she gets close enough 

“Hey Virge!” she greeted him, restraining herself from hugging him. Virgil was glad she could respect that boundary, since he was likely to faint if she hugged him out of the blue. 

“Uh, hey,” he stammered, cringing internally. He didn't like how her friends were giggling. He was making a fool of himself and he wanted to get away from the situation, his legs were itching to run. 

“So, you know how Mr. Tanner is going to give us that partner assignment today? I was thinking that we could be partners!” Reina chirped and swayed her shoulders shyly. Virgil would have agreed in a heartbeat if her friends weren't giggling like crazy behind her. 

“I, uh,” he winced and rubbed his neck. He couldn't stop from glancing over her shoulder. 

“Don't mind my harem,” Reina said and glared over her shoulder. Some of her friends rolled their eyes, some snickered, and one blew a playful kiss. But they all stopped paying attention to them. 

This is your chance to sink or swim  

“So, do you want to be partners?” she asked him again, a bit more sheepishly. 

“Yeah—uh—yeah, I mean we'd have to work on it after practice so if that's a problem—” 

“Nope! I'll meet you on the field after practice and we can get started!” Reina beamed and grabbed his hand, “Let's sit together this period!” 

You've got me swinging from the ceiling

And all I know is I never want to come back down

It shouldn't have been so easy for her to make him feel like he was walking on air. With just the slightest touch Reina had the power to turn the air in his lungs to helium. Just the thought that she reached out to him for something so mundane has him giddy on the inside. 

He wanted to scream at the top of his lungs on top of a mountain. He was thrilled and terrified, all because of one gremlin. 

He would be on this high for a while. 

--

This is the time to open your eyes  

Virgil’s day was a blur. He could remember the stuff he learned, and what he would have to do for his film history project, but he didn't really recall anything else about the day, or how he found himself manning left field, not that he was paying attention.

He was too busy internally panicking. He still had to ask Reina out while he still had the courage, and he wasn't sure if he could. They were working on a project for a grade, and he couldn't risk fucking that up on top of rejection. 

It was too risky. 

“Alright guys, bring it in!” the coach shouted from the dugout. Of course, Virgil joined the rest of the team, ready to hear all the complaints and when their next game was. He already knew his own flaws and when he would have to showcase them, so he barely paid attention. 

“And remember, it's not safe for your girlfriends to sit on the field and watch. That's why we have bleachers,” the coach said and eyed the outfielders. Virgil’s blood ran cold. Why was the coach starting at him so much? 

“Who was on the field?” Toby, the pitcher, whispered to Gus, the catcher. 

“Your ex,” Gus whispered back, “Reina.” 

“She never came to practice when we were dating, what the hell? I'm not taking her back.” 

“She didn't even look at you. She was probably eyeing Seth,” Gus scoffed quietly. Virgil didn't need to hear any more. 

As soon as the huddle broke he packed up his bag and made his way to the bleachers. Maybe he didn't have a chance. Seth was good looking, played third base, and he tried so hard to be like Toby. It would make sense for Reina to focus on him. Meeting with Virgil was the perfect excuse. 

Of course, Reina was on the bleachers, waiting for him and swinging her legs. She beamed at him when he came over. 

“Hey, you ready to go to my place to watch a few movies?” she asked, “Or did you want to walk around for a bit?” 

“Shouldn't I shower first? I'm pretty sure I stink,” Virgil asked, making sure his arms stayed down. 

“Nah! I kinda like how you smell. And I kinda wanna talk to you about something, nothing bad, I just need an opinion from someone who isn't interested in roshambo without the rock and paper.” 

Virgil's heart went out to her. She was nervous and clearly distressed by this thing. 

“Let me put this in the locker room and change, and then we can walk around the track and talk,” he ceded. Reina smiled at him and nodded. Virgil refused to take longer than he needed. 

  So he took a quick shower before going back. At least Reina was still there waiting. She looked relieved to see him in his hoodie. 

She hopped to her feet and skipped to meet him part way. 

“So, what's up?” Virgil asked as they made their way to the track. 

“What would you do if I was a guy?” 

“Uh, stop calling you Reina and stop using she/her pronouns.” 

“You wouldn't think I'm weird in a bad way?” 

“No, not for that.” 

“What if I was a guy, but only some of the time?” 

“I would use the name and pronouns you prefer. I don't think being genderfluid or bigender is weird.” 

“Do you think anyone would want to date me if I was gender fluid?” Reina pouted up at him with the saddest green eyes. 

You better spill your guts 

And never let her leave your side  

Virgil grabbed her shoulders gently and nodded. 

“I know I would date you if you were any flavor of trans. I would date you if you were cis. I have the most obnoxious feelings for you, they make me a nervous wreck because I can't bear to make a mistake in front of you. I don't care what name or pronouns as long as you're you.” 

“Virgil—” she said with a distant look in her eyes. 

“Even if you aren't interested in me like that, I know that there's a lot of people who would want to date you,” he relented and dropped his arms. 

Just give it some time, let it sink into her mind

They continued to walk around the track in relative silence. The soft wind and warm sun couldn't calm Virgil's nerves. Reina wasn't talking or making noise. She always made noise. He fucked up and ruined everything. He couldn't even look at her.

She'll be coming back for more  

“Remus.” 

Virgil glanced at Reina. She was looking at him with glassy eyes. 

“My boy name is Remus,” she said. 

“Remus,” Virgil repeated, “it suits you.” 

Reina smiled at him and hugged his arm. 

“You're the first person to say that name to me. It feels good to hear it,” she giggled and rubbed her cheek on his arm. 

You've got me swinging from the ceiling

And all I know is I never wanna come back down

Virgil couldn't fight the blush rising on his face. His heart decided to play Metallica’s “One” against his ribs, slamming in his chest. Reina had to realize that she was sending his feelings into overdrive. She had to realize that she was teasing his heartstrings after that confession. 

“I would date you too,” she hummed, “You're the sweetest guy I know, even with that tough shell.” 

You gotta pull yourself together now

Before your time is running out 

“You would?” Virgil asked and stopped walking. Reina squeaked and caught her balance, grinning up at him. 

Virgil took a deep breath. He could do this.

You better make your move before she goes again

“Will you be my girlfriend and/or boyfriend?” he asked and rubbed his neck. There was still a chance she'd say no. He didn't even ask her on a date! 

Reina immediately pounced, jumping to wrap her arms around his shoulders. Virgil caught her and stumbled a bit, but he was able to hold her up by the thighs while she squealed and nuzzled his neck. 

“Yes! Of course I will! I'm your boyfriend today!” Remus said and leaned back to look at Virgil’s face. He was blushing adorably and chewing his bottom lip, hoping for something more, something Virgil could provide. 

You gotta pull yourself together now 

“Does that mean we can kiss?” Remus asked and wiggled his eyebrows. 

Before your time is running out 

You better make your move before he goes again 

“Yeah,” Virgil said, completely red in the face. He had kissed dudes before, mostly on dares, but he was absolutely flustered at the thought of kissing Remus. 

He leaned in and let his eyes flutter shut, praying Remus would meet him in the middle. Then their lips met and Virgil could hardly contain the sheer joy filling him. It was short and sweet, but it left Virgil giddy and unable to fight his smile. 

“Wanna get pizza and make out while we do our project?” Remus asked when they pulled apart, “If it gets you to smile at me like that, I I'll let you touch my boobs!” 

“I'll smile like this without doing that,” Virgil chuckled, “Just don't get pineapple pizza.” 

Remus laughed and hugged him, pleasantly surprised that Virgil was still carrying him with ease. 

“Anchovies it is!” he teased, expecting Virgil to drop him or get grossed out. 

“You read my mind,” Virgil hummed and carried him off the track, excited for what could come from this.

---

Virgil woke up to the pleasant sensation of lips on his own. He blinked away the sleep from his eyes when those lips pulled away, and he was met with vibrant green eyes. 

“Mm, Ree?” he mumbled. 

“That’s right big boy, and you left your Trash Bat all alone last night!” Remus purred. 

“Sorry about that. I didn't want to wake you up.” 

“That's sweet! But I had to save you from getting covered in stickers and glitter before the kids went to school!” 

“What time is it?” Virgil grunted and sat up. It was already bright, so he had to have slept until late in the morning. 

“Time to order lunch and make out while we watch scary movies.” 

“Just like our first date. Funny, I was just dreaming about that.” 

“Oh! Was that the day I ogled your butt, came out to you, and you carried me all the way to my house? Roman thought I got hurt!” 

“Yeah,” Virgil smiled up at him, “And all these years later you still got me swinging from the ceiling with everything you do.” 

Remus giggled and kissed him again. 

“You say that as if I'm not up there with you!” 

Virgil huffed and pulled Remus on top of him, flopping on his back again. 

“The pizza can wait, I need to hold you for a bit.” 

Remus kissed his neck and snuggled up with him. Moments like these reminded him that he had to thank his 15 year old self for choosing to swim and not sink.

--

Song: Sink or Swim - Close to Home

[namtanlovesfilm]

What you said abt p'jojo, I feel this.

For Chueam, I thought for sure she would be more developed but I understood quickly (but not so quickly) it wouldn't and i was sad. Yeah sure it's a BOYSLOVE, but I thought.

The thing is, I started the first 3 eps of the show and realized it wasn't what I thought it would be, and that is saying smthg bc I had zero expectations. So I did a thing that I already did for a little few other gmmtv shows, I stopped watching, let loose of my thoughts, and started over 2 weeks later and catching it up live again. And honestly it was better. But I wasn't like other ppl in the fandom lmao. I had no analysis, no theories, no nothing. It was just vibes😅 But then something happened and idk why, but I got bored of it ??? Idk maybe it's like you said and this series had lots of shocking value, but in other departments it was lacking.

 Like the lack of repercussions or like just you know, finishing somethings, having resolutions. And having it makes sense for the characters, bc how you feel with something tells you what kind of a person you are. But they seem to kind of always cut that ? I don't know the words exactly English isn't my first language sorry (I'm so mad I can't find the words it's killing me my god).

For me it was also too much for the stable pairings if it makes sense. Like the first and khao and book and force (Mark and neo in this series as a couple was a great choice bc I didnt that 'problem' with them). I don't follows the actors closely at all but sometimes I could sense something weird. Like it's for example an actor interacting with the other actor he's close with, and not another entity interacting with another with their own (fictional) feelings. Again I'm really sorry for my weird English I don't know how to say it 😅 hope it makes sense lol.

So all in all, kind of fun, I don't mind having characters that have a grey moral, in fact I like them the most, or having characters opposite of my morals, bc it makes me think, and keep things interesting (well usually).

I like the mess usually, and I did like some in this series, but maybe this show is not for me bc it was a mess yes be for me not the right reason in a way, I think. Also I love a series that is concentrated on friends but sometimes hum something was lacking idk.

There is one thing that happened who made me rrreeeaallly think. Bc a character isn't supposed to always be the light of reason, and can make mistakes, or just have a different opinion of mine the watcher. And I like that. But yeah at one point I wanted to wake-up-slap Chueam. Bc I dont understand what the show/the story/the show runners whatever  was trying to tell me. And that's what I talked abt earlier. Bc either it is something that is not well resolved until the end, or it is and that's just that. Honestly idk.

[ Boston find a new group of friends. Bc they're like yeah we're messy and fucked up and then act or pretend like they are morally white and the he is evil. But I do like though how Nick and Boston broke up. That he should find someone who is okay with his way of life and share the same sentiments abt monogamy.]

And lastly I like the actors but i I'm so tired of seeing them with the same couple pairing. I want them to grow up outside of their couple pairing bc you can sense a sense of safety net when they act together. I find they are GOOD actors, I just want them to fly more.

But then again, all of this is my opinion, it's very subjective (apart from the lack of development of chueam, of course).

Maybe I'll rewatch this series next year in a binge. I'll be waiting for your review, if you will do one.

Sorry this is long, I send you my regards 🐝

I agree with everything you've said above. I think that when p'jojo announced this show as the gay friend zone, I was hoping it would bring the one thing that friend zone does not have into its show: queer community. I was hoping that, despite the drama, this would feel like such a relatable show to anyone who has a queer group of friends... but it really wasn't. the only parts I truly LOVED are sand being openly bi, though sadly all of his relationships are with men, and the kiss scene between sand & nick when they just laugh bc they realize they're not compatible. THIS! this felt like the queer experience. if the show had leaned into this kind of scenes, I would've honestly overlooked everything else. but again, having watched friendzone where 1) its female characters are developed 2) its WLW characters are loved & developed 3) stud is the best "slutty messy gay" character and boston WISH he could be him 4) topmew are just a re-hash of samearth's boring ass relationship 5) arm's character in friend zone was everything boeing should've been... the purpose of only friends becomes only the audience being shocked bc two random actors kissed and/or fucked. and by the end? I got mond & first kissing yet I felt nothing. ME! the biggest not me stan & a fan of the gramyok ship... felt absolutely nothing about seeing them kiss. bc since everyone kissed there was nothing to be surprised about. I'm glad that despite the show's popularity, people are FINALLY opening their eyes & seeing that it was not a good show and never was from the very start.

note: I feel the need to say something bc a few people have been misinterpreting what I mean when referencing the queer community. I do think this show represents some of the queer community well, and perhaps I relied too much on people knowing my opinion of jojo tichakorn & his previous shows for it to get understood. what I'm saying in this ask is that the show didn't lean into the queer FRIENDSHIP enough like the nicksand kiss example that I stated above, not that the queer experience reflected on the show is bad or unrealistic.

xxx

[absolutebl]

Hello, hi.

Next week is Cherry Magic's last episode and I'd like a suggestion as to what to watch next. Since last year I've watched some shows that I've enjoyed to different degrees. So far I've vibed more with the Japanese ones and only have watched two Thai shows: step by step and cherry magic.

I definitely like cherry magic more but I'd like to watch some more Thai bl, as I can see they're very popular, but honestly I don't know where to begin. I don't know if mentioning my favorite shows would help?

Old fashion cupcake

Cherry magic (JP)

I cannot reach you

Semantic error

Thank you so much in advance 🙌🏽

This is a perfect question for me!

I think you're vibbing more with Cherry Magic Th because it's following the original yaoi so closely, so it's def more JBL feeling story than it is ThBL.

Okay so your favorites are:

Old Fashion Cupcake

Cherry Magic original

I Cannot Reach You*

Semantic Error*

You've named some of my all time favorites, and 2 of my VERY few top 10s*. (For more of my top 10 JBLs, try here (pre 2023). For my top 10 KBLs, those are here. And my top BLs of all time are here.)

But you want Thai recommendations?

Before I start, off script, seek ye Seven Days. It's my favorite JBL of all time and it's absolutely amazing and very special. It's in two parts and worth every effor to try to find. Here's me talking about it.

First, let me triage some connective tissue.

It seems like you like soft and gentle BL. (Try this cozy list.)

You like JBL so that means higher filming standards and certain aura of authenticity.

Also a lower heat level.

Okay, here are 10 Thai BLs I think you should try, in order...

10 Thai BLs to try if you prefer soft Japanese BL

1 Until We Meet Again (YouTube)

UWMA is, without question, a work of narrative genius with a powerful and cohesive romantic backbone and stellar performances. It is (to date) the only Thai BL that I’ve rated a 10/10 predominantly on the basis of story structure. That said it is also very well cast (and it’s a BIG cast), with solid production values, and enduring pair branding and a softness and complexity that should appeal for a JBL stan. More of my feels on this on here.

trigger warning on the original trigger

2 I Feel You Linger in the Air (iQIYI or grey)

I truly loved this time travel romance. IFYLITA is an exquisite BL, from filming techniques to narrative framework (much like Until We Meet Again). Steeped in history and family drama it edges into lakorn AKA soap opera. This is an elegant and classy BL… from Thailand which normally doesn't even try for classy. The main couple (both as a pair and individuals) were excellent, particularly Bright (Yai) whose eye-work acting style is a personal favorite of mine. Pity about the ending. Oh it wasn’t that sad but it wasn’t great either. However, JBL isn't noted for sticking the landings either. Full review and discussion here.

3 My Ride (Gaga)

Thai BL grew up with this little pulp (the first ever to make my end of year top 10). It’s a truly lovely and special little show featuring the extremely rare pairing of sunshine/sunshine (AKA a cinnamon roll couple) plus mature explorations of relationships using one of the softest, sweetest and most innocent friends to lovers vehicles. Kindly, overworked doctor meets broken-hearted motorcycle taxi driver in an “other side of the tracks” slow burn romance. The support cast is excellent, making for great friendship groups and family dynamics. With honest queer rep that adds to, but doesn’t impede, the story, and genuine conversation about the nature of class, wealth, and classism, not to mention communication, honesty, and respect for boundaries, you can’t go wrong with this show. Full review.

My caveat with this one is, like Step by Step, it is a Thai pulp which mean production values will not be up to Japan's standards. So if you bounce hard off the style of the first few 2 eps, it doesn't get better, so drop it and move on.

4 A Tale of Thousand Stars (YouTube)

With great casting and cinematography this drama nods at BL tropes but manages to elevate them (and itself) with a strong mature story concept about a spoiled rich kid who gets a heart transplant and becomes a rural teacher in order to pay out survivor’s guilt. On the way he falls in love with a local park ranger and contends with his own classism and escapist tendencies. Everyone seemed to perfectly suit their roles and GMMTV made the most out of its stable. Combined with excellent production (and post production) values, 1000 Stars is without question GMMTV’s most mature, charming, and smart BL series. I think it should go down as one of the top BLs of all time. I feel safe recommending this one to friends and non BL watchers.

5 He's Coming to Me (YouTube)

Boy and ghost boy fall in love, must solve ghost’s murder. Peak pining but also pretty tame, features my favorite sweet but important coming out sequence. The third in my precious triumvirate of unbeatable Thai BLs, that are only nominally BL because the story, acting, and production values are so good. (others are UWMA & 1k*)

You don't mention any PNR or high concept, but I still think it's worth giving this one a try.

6 Moonlight Chicken (YouTube)

I enjoyed this complicated little show, even though it’s spectacularly messy gay with lots of shrapnel and authentic pain. I thought the leads (EarthMix from 1k*) turned in their most compelling performance to date. But it was GeminiFourth (My School President) who stole my heart. That said, the most interesting central relationship was that of Jim & Li Ming, their father-son angst mixed with evident affection made me tear up. This was more slice of life than it was BL, but it ended happily so I’m not mad at it. Full review here.

It's not as soft as you like, but you might try it anyway, because it is Very Good.

A note if you watch this and enjoy GeminiFourth, you could try their BL, My School President. I chose not to explicitly rec it to you because it's VERY Thai Bl with lots of comedy and slapstick, and you named prestige JBL and KBL (which are the anthesis of this). Taht said, MSP has no more or less than Japan's Cherry Magic, so you might enjoy it.

7 Make a Wish (grey)

An odd pull but I'm going with it. This PNR (from noted Y-novelist Sammon - Manner of Death & Triage) about a doctor who can see the dead and strikes a bargain with a wish-granting irreverent tree angel - naturally they fall in love. The Thai afterlife is incredibly bureaucratic but I enjoyed the premise and the unfolding of the story (it’s not predictable but still satisfying and with nice little twist). I like that the doctor is just gay af and has a fag hag bestie and everything. The cast is excellent but the comedic stylings could feel too overblown and tonally off. (But again no more than something like Japan's Cherry Magic.) It had sad parts and did make me cry but is ultimately happy with a great sex scene, good smiley kisses, and all the agency.

8 Bed Friend (YouTube -cut version, iQIYI - v high heat)

You didn't name My Personal Weatherman (a great high heat JBL from last year) but if you want to try some Thai-style high heat, this is your best bet. Office frienamies transition a flaming hot one night stand into a f-buddy relationship that is built on a puppy/cat dynamic (and kinks into it at one point). Our puppy is loyal, smitten, and protective with endlessly longing eyes, while our cat is snarky, prickly, and deeply damaged (ALL THE TRIGGERS). NetJames give lovely high-heat with excellent chemistry and tuned-in performances of surprising depth, the story ultimately fails them at little as it waffles and went off the rails. But that's a Thai BL thing. Full review here.

Triggers include: child abuse, attempted rape, family abuse

9 The Eclipse (YouTube)

This is a good show but the cast is excellent and the leads are absolutely flawless, which elevates it beyond just good. We got a nuanced and multifaceted burgeoning relationship: philosophical (and socio-political) conflict contrasted to moments of empathy; flirtation contrasted to moments of genuine affection, plus plenty of angst. This narrative is less about love than it is about courage and tenderness. However, near the end the pacing was off and the plot frustrating. Still, this is an enjoyable watch, with a finale that features verbal consent and a fun blooper reel.

10 Love By Chance (YouTube)

Okay I dithered a lot over this last one and finally chose this. Because in an intro to Thai BL you should have at least one trail by fire and that's bound to be a MAME offering.

AePete’s meet cute is one of the best ever put on screen. They are just so genuine and soft with each other, it’s hard not to love them from the first moment. All the best Thai BL tropes deployed (and there are a lot of them) are earned honestly by the narrative, including the seme/uke dynamic (such as it is). The characters are unique as this is a poor/rich pairing, where Ae is tough & scrappy, caring & protective, and probably demisexual, while Pete is timid, shy, lonely, and out gay (with his peers). The language is also glorious with Pete using formal (even old fashioned) register, while Ae is entirely rude. You can train your ear for Thai high & low registers with this show (in fact, it's why I started learning them). As surrounding characters point out, they shouldn't work together, and yet they're very much wonderful when they are together.

HOWEVER: You watch LBC for the mains, ignore the sides (trigger warnings), and don't bother with any of the follow ups and you'll be fine. AePete will remain in your heart for a really long time. They are still one of my all time favorite couples. Also (still) two of the Thai BL industry's most famous actors.

For those who are wondering, yes the last contender was, indeed, Bad Buddy. But I chose LBC purely on the basis of softness.

There it is.

I hope I have picked some winners for you and please loop back around and let me know how it goes?

I really want to know if any of these worked for you, this was such a fun challenge.

(source)

[ur-dad-satan]

Hi

I want to write but, I have like no motivation to do so. So have a bit of an unnamed OC book about a non-binary college student named Emerald who becomes a supervillain with the goal of getting revenge on everyone who wronged them and their friends starting with the person who started it all. It's just part of the first chapter and the whole plot isn't fleshed out yet. I don't even know if I'm going to finish this book, but maybe if enough people actually like it, I'll post the whole chapter.

(TW for deadnaming, bigotry, etc. You don't have to read, but please at least look at the picrews of the characters at the bottom. I worked hard on them please)

Later that day, I had finally made it back to mine and Felix's apartment. Felix seemed to have just gotten home too because they were rummaging through the fridge and still wearing one of my sweaters.

"Hello my favorite queer!" I greeted in a sing-song voice. I could tell that Felix was rolling his eyes with a goofy smile spreading across his face.

"Hey, fruit!" Felix greeted back. We always called each other silly names like that. It was fun and we never got mad because we respected each other's boundaries. "How were your boring classes?"

"Boring, just like you said. And yours?"

"I didn't fall asleep during Mr. Thompson's class today so that's a plus. And we did a lab during Mrs. Graham's class!" Felix said excitedly and started to ramble on about some drama between these two random people in their math class. 

Felix was one of the most important people in my life. I loved them to death, from their bright red dyed hair, their fern green eyes, and their bright, crooked, and contagious smile, they were my best friend. I always had their back and I know that they would have mine too. An hour or two later, there was a knock on the door. Felix and I were both sitting on the couch and quickly did a game of 'rock, paper, scissors' to see which one of us would open the door, which I lost. When I opened the door, Alex and Ryder were stood there with small bags and wide smiles. 

"Hey guys!" I greeted.

"Hi Em!" Ryder said pulling me into a hug and placed a small platonic kiss on my forehead. He was taller than me and wouldn't let me forget it; I didn't mind though. Even though he was anti-confrontational, he would still protect us if anything happened. A true gentle giant if I do say so myself.

"Hey babes." Alex smiled and also gave me a tight hug. Alex was the gremlin of the group. She was always down for anything whether it would be fighting, telling a waiter/waitress that they got our food wrong, or anything in between. They were unpredictable, but we loved them regardless. After exchanging pleasantries, we turned on some music and all started to get ready to go to dinner.

*.*.*.*.*.

I didn't think that day - this one singular dinner - would put me on my current path, but here we are.

After dinner, we decided that we weren't done having fun yet. It's Friday night and we're young adults! Why shouldn't we be able to have fun with a little alcohol!? So, we four decided to walk downtown and enjoy the scenery. We decided to go to a little bar not far from Fe and I's apartment so we could all just crash back there afterwards. We stayed in the bar for a little while and noticed that the bartenders had changed two people with dyed hair, nose piercings, and pins on their clothes, to a bored looking couple.

"Let's get more drinks!" Alex suggested happily over the music.

"Okay, but not too much! Some of us have to work tomorrow, right?" Felix reminded which Ryder nodded in agreement to. He worked at a library, and no one wants to get help from a grumpy librarian. Alex fist pumped in excitement before pulling us toward the bar to order.

"Hey, I'm Lindsey and I'll be your bartender for tonight. What can I get you?" The femme presenting bartender greeted us with a fake smile. I didn't know why at first, but I couldn't shake the feeling that I had seen her before. 

"Hi! I want a Mojito, please!" Alex ordered. He was having the time of his life and already a little bit tipsy. After that, Felix ordered a Tequila Sunrise, Ryder got a "Dark and Stormy", and I got a simple Whisky Sour. Lindsey nodded and turned away to start making our drinks. To lessen the load, she told a guy to do some to help her and our drinks were done in like five minutes.

"Okay! One Tequila Sunrise for the red head." She started and handed Felix their drink. " A Mojito for the hyper girl," She gave Alex his drink causing his smile to fall a bit. He had a big "he/him" pin on his top loud and proud. "A Dark and Stormy for the tall one, and a whisky sour for the brown-haired girl." Lindsey ended and gave Ryder and I our drinks as well. I was going to say thank you and let go of the misgendering because not everyone knows what the non-binary flag looks like, but I noticed that Alex looked upset. I couldn't just not say anything.

"Thank you, but actually you got some of our pronouns wrong." I said politely. Lindsey looked at me with a blank expression and didn't move to say anything for a moment.

"Oh. That's crazy. Sucks I guess." She said with a small laugh. I looked around at my friends and noticed Ryder giving Lindsey the most criminal side eye.

"First of all, that's basic respect. You don't have to do anything but say sorry and correct yourself. Second, you... wait- I remember you. Lindsey Smith? From Thermopolis, Wyoming?" I asked and silently hoped that I was wrong.

"Yeah? Do I know you?" She asked. I looked down at the drink in front of me and let out a rough sigh. My chest started to burn in vexation and when I looked up, I made eye contact with Felix.

"You know what? You do." I started. "Have I ever said what made my parents put me in Rightside Camp? You guys remember Rightside, yeah? Alex? Ryder? Do you remember the "treatments" that they put us through before the age of 17?" I asked making sure Lindsey could hear. All three of my friends looked up at me; Ryder's eyes got wide, and Alex sunk in his seat and stirred his drink slowly before taking a small sip as the venom filled words dripped from my lips.

"You haven't told me yet, Em." Felix said. I laughed humorlessly and began my lament.

"When I was a freshman in high school, I figured out that I was non-binary. I wanted to tell my best friend who knew everything about me because I thought I could trust her. I went up to her one morning at school and I said 'Hey Linds,'" I looked up at Lindsey to see her looking confused and a bit annoyed. "'I have something really important to tell you, but I'm still figuring it out, so you can't tell anyone. Okay?' And she said 'okay.' I told her 'I think I'm non-binary. I don't feel like a girl and I'm definitely not a boy.' And she said that she wouldn't tell anyone. By second period, the whole grade knew. By lunch, the entire student body knew. By last period, every teacher in our conservative school was looking at me like I had a disease. When I got home, my parents were waiting for me at the door. Do you know what they did Fe?" I asked Felix but kept looking at Lindsey.

"What happened?" I could hear the worry in their voice. 

"They sent me to Rightside, a conversion camp, at the ripe old age of 15 years old. They took so much from me all because one little girl decided to gossip, and say shit against her friend's back. All because one little girl craved attention or whatever so much that she would completely betray and out her own best friend. So yes, Lindsey Smith, you do know me. And even if you don't remember me, I remember you. You ruined my life." Lindsey looked at me like I had said the most outrageous thing she had ever heard.

"Eliza Johnson?" she asked incredulously.

"That hasn't been my name in years. It's Emerald now." I was silently seething at this point, and I couldn't tell whether I wanted to either leave, or drown in my whisky.

"Well, whatever your name is, I'm sorry you feel this way, but it's not my problem. It's been like 10 years since then, and I'm working. Maybe you should have been more careful with telling people your secrets." The brunette said in a disgustingly condescending tone.

"Okay, I don't know who you think you're talking to but-" I started to become loud as the hurricane of anger, hatred, disgust, and so much more started to bubble over and spill onto the fire that was that memory, before Ryder and Felix could pull me away from the counter in an attempt to defuse the situation.

"Okay! That's enough! Em, honey! It's okay. Calm down. That bigot isn't worth your breath." Ryder turned me away to make me focus on him and calm down. Felix also held onto me to make sure I couldn't go back to argue with her. I'm not religious, but I thank God for the friends that I have. Wait, friends!

"Alex! Where is he?!" I turned around and saw Alex looking extremely angry while talking to Lindsey and the guy who helped her make our drinks.

Bonus: I made Picrews of the characters so these are my favorites of each. In order, meet Alex Gonzales, Emerald Johnson, Felix Hall, and Ryder Hassan. Picrew creators are in the pictures.

[instantpansies]

In 1964, arguably the height of their career, the Beatles performed "Pyramus and Thisbe", the play-within-a-play from A Midsummer Night's Dream, for a television appearance. Having been obsessed with the Beatles for my entire life, I was ecstatic when at age 12 the recording appeared in my YouTube recommendations.

Around the same time, I was becoming obsessed with Shakespeare as well. Starting with Much Ado about Nothing, I had read most of the comedies and a good number of tragedies by the time I stumbled across "The Beatles Perform Shakespeare, in colour". Naturally, it immediately became my dream to perform in that play. I wasn't an actor yet, and while I was an okay public speaker I hadn't yet gone through the debate classes and persuasive essay presentations that would force me to get comfortable in front of a crowd. I watched the blurry footage of John and Paul mumbling through archaic lines in yarn wigs, and set my sights on memorizing the monologues.

In A Midsummer Night's Dream, Pyramus and Thisbe is a play put on by the group of fools, who spend most of the story rehearsing before performing it in the final scenes of Midsummer's. It's poorly written, intentionally so, with the actors flubbing lines, speaking out of turn, and generally doing a bad job of presenting the story. Shakespeare means it to be a moment of comedy to wrap up the romantic drama of the rest of the story. Pyramus and Thisbe is also the myth that inspired Romeo and Juliet, with the plot following very similar beats.

I started acting in high school and it quickly became part of my identity. This isn't a unique experience by any means, but the freedom of being someone else was pretty meaningful for a queer kid who'd grown up in the only liberal family in our conservative christian homeschool co-op. I'd only acted for two years when the de facto leader of our troupe, my best friend, graduated, leaving me to fill the gap. Suddenly I'd become one of the most experienced actors in a group of freshman homeschoolers, most of whom had never stepped onstage.

Our director also ran a co-op of sorts of her own - not the one where I'd spent most of my primary educational career, but a sort of conglomerate of teachers and classes - and she wanted us to present a short play for the elementary classes' fall celebration. She asked for recommendations and I saw my chance, practically shining in the air before me.

Obviously I shouted out "Pyramus and Thisbe!" I gave my elevator pitch. Killed it. We got scripts the next week. Me and that little group of freshmen pulled ourselves together in about a month, and managed to present the archaic language comedically. If I do say so myself. We practiced just once a week, and my actors weren't quite sure what to do with their rather eccentric characters, and our lines weren't fully memorized until the week before, but we made it. We made it, and it was great.

I played Pyramus. I got to die dramatically in front of fifty kids I'd been working with for over a year, flounce around onstage with a plastic sword, and immerse myself in a scene I'd loved for years. It was, honestly, a high point of my high school career. I still have those lines memorized, I still go back to the photos and videos from that fall evening. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

I don't really know what the point of this story is. I think it's funny, I guess, how Pyramus and Thisbe keeps popping up in my life. It connects to acting and classic literature and the Beatles and the summers of staying with my grandparents, holed up in their extra room, writing research papers and surfing the Internet. I don't know what it is about Pyramus and Thisbe, but it's important for one reason or another. I hope it shows up in my life again someday, but in the meantime, I'm done. And being done, thus Wall away doth go.

[virgeandhis-pocket-protector]

Ayo @prince-rowan-of-the-forest tagged me in the "getting to know your fellow fanfic authors" writing tag game! I'm putting this in a new post cause the original one was gettin long.

Go see Rowan's answers here! (https://www.tumblr.com/prince-rowan-of-the-forest/730426008116822016/aaaaa-thanks-for-the-tag-when-did-you-post-your?)

My answers beneath the read more.

When did you post your first fanfic?

Lordy. Back in 2019, I posted an extremely rough draft of a multi-chapter Sanders Sides (or 'SaSi') fanfic called Kingdoms for a Mind (or 'KFAM') on Wattpad. Either that one or a now tossed SaSi fic called Fear No More (guess which side was the focus in that one. Guess. Hint: It's the anxious guy.)

First Character you wrote for:

Virgil from Sanders Sides, I thiiiiink? Although I wrote for most of the sides at that point, too. Virgil was my little baby boy though.

Main character(s) you're currently writing for:

Logan, Janus, Virgil, Patton, and Remus in the updated version of KFAM i'm working on, and Patton and Roman in a new SaSi/The Mechanisms crossover.

Character(s) you haven't written about before but plan on writing about soon:

Mostly non-SaSi stuff. I have some fic ideas for a Pure Vessel/Pale King angst (from the Hollow Knight video game) or Diggory and Percy from Hello from the Hallowoods (highly recommended queer drama podcast).

Fandom(s) you're currently writing for:

SANDERS SIDES and the mechansisms and star wars and someday probably hollow knight and hello from the hallowoods oh and me and my friend's D&D campaign, but that's mostly original stuff.

Platonic pairing(s) you currently write for:

Tehe. All SaSi platonic duos, pretty much, like the whole group. Platonic/familial Janus, Logan, and Virgil is a favorite though. And I love my creativitwins angst.

Romantic pairing(s) you currently write for:

Analogical, Anxceit, and Royality, among others like loceit, roceit, and logince.

Your top three tags on AO3 (if you post your works on AO3):

Character tags: 1. Original Characters 2. Morality | Patton Sanders 3. Anxiety | Virgil Sanders Relationship tags: 1. Analogical (romantic) 2. Virgil & Roman (platonic) 3. Creativitwins (platonic)

Your current platform where you post your works:

Archive of Our Own (Ao3)! Here's my acc.* (https://archiveofourown.org/users/pancakewithapen/profile) *PSA that I haven't posted anything new in a while. Feel free to read my 3-year-old stuff tho. And if you're feeling extra special, please please bully me about posting stuff I really gotta -v-

Snippet of A WIP you're currently working on:

"The fire cracks. Leaning against a fallen tree, only a few miles away from where their journey began all those weeks ago, Logan realizes he has forgotten how to lie to himself. With conscious, newfound honesty, Logan senses that he is not just uncomfortable. He is angry. Janus doesn’t need to know. Why, in a million years, would Janus even deserve to know? Logan’s feeling are private, they are his, and they do not have to be spoken to anyone. Ever. Logan looks down toward the grass. Why do you care? He almost spits out, but in his periphery, he can see Janus still looking towards the woods. The other’s hands are placed gingerly in his own lap. His mouth is turned down, but his eyes are wide and alert. Janus longs for Virgil to return, too, just as Logan is. He feels the same urges Logan feels. Janus must already know the answer to his question. He knows. He must hate that he knows. He thinks Logan will either save his feelings or put him out of his misery and either option is nicer than conscious ignorance. Perhaps Janus has come to find he can’t lie to himself either. Logan’s stomach churns. They must be talking about these feelings, once so sweet and freeing, in the bitterest configuration possible." (From "Kingdoms for a Mind 2" — a Sanders sides fic)

-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-

No-pressure tagging some of my favorite fanfic authors:

@i-will-physically-fight-you @late-to-the-fandom @anxious-mess19 @vinbee631 @groovyghostie @annaizscribbling @emo-nightmares @girlboypatton @lily-janus

This is also @pancakewithamace, btw, in case you don't recognize this blog!

[hajimedics]

Each to their own! I see why you say that, he probably looks more like a child to me because of his height and more 'child-like' features? Eh that's the best way i can describe it, although i am aware that he is of age. As long as boundaries are respected, I'm okay! but i will still give side eye towards people who ship frank and Julie... that ship mainly because- 1 frank is married, 2 they are friends- like no (not going to go out of my way to attack people who ship them i just find it icky and avoid that ship)

Im just happy that welcome home has the attention it needs.. Lets lighten up the mood! Why is eddie and howdy your favorite characters? For me, I loved how unique frank's design was, same for howdy and i love eddie and juile for their personalities! (I also like franny's design a lot! Anyone else? Just me?)

What do you think frank's favorite butterfly would be? Or would he not be able to choose? Hmm maybe a blue monarch? Or maybe something less comonly known? (Personally I think frank would like swallowtail ones more (if that's what they are called- i might be thinking of moths or birds there))

An essay to read as allways! (Sorry-)

I have never encountered a frank/julie ship art so far, thankfully! sure people can draw whatever they want but I feel like it's an erasure of their identities? mostly because I see it through my "two puppets who are undeniably queer pushed into a cisheteronormavity situation by their caretaker figures" lenses. if anything I personally see frank and julie as platonic soulmates, two people who are closer than friends but not lovers. they love each other dearly! they're paired together! the two stooges! romantic love isn't the only type of love and frank and julie's interactions definitely show it

as for why those two are my faves! I love eddie because well, I like big hunky guys who can get silly. it's my track record. I also see the potential for his character to be a complex one like wally. even though nobody made fun of him directly, it's kind of sad to see his forgetfulness and struggles get brushed off by most of the cast. though he doesn't seem to mind it either. eddie seems to be written as the comic relief in the show, but in the "answer" pages his voice has more integrity into it. NOW I MIGHT BE STRETCHING JUUUUST A BIT but I hope there's gonna be a conflict between these two parts of him. one that acts as the comic relief who acts like he's not bothered and one that wants to be taken seriously for once. I love drama. I love character realizations. I also have a slight fear that he's gonna be a cannon fodder uhuhuhuuuuu

I love howdy because something about him hits differently compared to the rest of the cast. his freedom symbolism (adult caterpillar, the only one in his family who didn't turn into a butterfly). the way he has an "idgaf I have a job" attitude. his voice is also great and I love it. I hope he gets meaner (the same goes for sally) because I think it's gonna be a great plot stirrer. despite his slyness and emotional intelligence he looks like he'll be master contrarian in a group. he knows his way with words, he knows how to get the reaction he wanted out of people, I love him.

I think frank wouldn't be able to choose exactly which one is his favorite!!! he loves butterflies!!! there's just so many of them to choose from!! monarch butterflies are the most popular and iconic type, I reckon he has it in his collection.... he'd love swallowtail butterflies, those are pretty little creatures, and I think he'd love janetta forester and pieridae too!

[kattahj]

Rules: List 10 of your comfort shows, then tag 10 people

Tagged by @katiekeysburg about a month ago. This took me forever, sorry!

Tagging some mutuals from my notes: @minutia-r @sorry-bonebag @re-bee-key @theendofcake @beccaelizabeth315 @anotherlovr @lotesseflower @morathicain @firlalaith @lena221bee

Interpreting this as shows I watch when I want to feel happy and warm and cared for. I don't often rewatch shows, so some of these are ongoing and others are just ones that made me feel good when I did watch them.

Apologies to all the other feel good shows I've had along the way thst didn'tmake the cut. :-)

What's My Line: A game show from the 50s/60s where the panel guesses people's occupations, and also who the celebrity guest is (they're blindfolded for that one). If you want to watch light banter, low-stakes games (extra points are frequently handed out), and hear about jobs you didn't even know existed, this is perfect. Available on YouTube for free, too!

Taskmaster: Another low-stakes game show, this time with celebrities having to perform absolutely ridiculous tasks. This frequently involves not so much thinking outside of the box as thinking outside of the planet. Also, the two hosts have an amusingly dom/sub thing going on.

Queer Eye: Five gay people come to a person, or sometimes a group of people, to fix up their appearance, home, and personal lives. The results can be quibbled with sometimes, but for the most part, this is like a warm hug.

Ghosts: A young couple move into a house that turns out to be haunted. Since they're now so deep in debt that they can't move, they have to make friends with the ghosts. Exists in two versions, UK and US. The UK fans will swear up and down that theirs is the only good version, but the truth is that both are good, and as a comfort show specifically, the US version may be more effective, since it's softer and cuddlier.

Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts: In the future, humans live underground, mutated animals ("mutes") roam the earth, and everyone is at each other's throat. Until a girl named Kipo accidentally ends up on the surface and decides to make friends with all the animals, which she turns out to be surprisingly good at. Also, there's lots of singing.

Press Gang: Childhood favourite show that still holds up, about a group of teenagers making a newspaper together. Good drama, good humour, and also, the editor is a smart, ruthless girl named Lynda, who has lots of Belligerent Sexual Tension with Spike, one of the reporters and resident rebel, in a classic 80s/90s romantic trope. In case that's your kind of thing. :-)

She-Ra and the Princesses of Power: Girl who was stolen by the Evil Horde as a child discovers that she's actually the destined hero of the Princess Alliance, their enemies. Sweet story, very queer, and with surprisingly nuanced villains. Doesn't quite measure up to Kipo in my book (I know most people disagree), but almost.

Julie and the Phantoms: Musically gifted teenager discovers that the ghosts of a dead rock band "lives" in her garage. From the creator of High School Musical, but so much better. Sadly cancelled after only one season (very unfortunate timing with covid).

And since I've been watching all these Asian QLs lately, naturally I need to add the softest of those:

She Makes My Heart Flutter: Short and sweet about a lesbian bar owner who gets her routine changed when her niece comes to work for her. Only takes a little bit more than an hour to watch, and it's lovely the whole time.

Old Fashion Cupcake: Office romance about a 39-year-old manager whose midlife crisis is interrupted with the help of the 29-year-old working for him, who dares him to try new things and experience life like a young girl would. Lots of tasty food in addition to the romance.

[smalltownfae]

This is a post asking for contemporary romance books recommendations.

So, seems like I am in a weird contemporary romance kick – which is a genre I never cared about before in books. I always enjoyed it ocasionally in movies or korean dramas. Love that for me tbh because I am exploring something new. The problem is that I am so terribly picky and I can't tell beforehand what will and will not work for me in this...

All I can tell is that I like the character dynamics of the ones that I enjoyed and that I seem to love opposites attract and that doesn't necessarily mean grumpy/sunshine (which seems to be a popular trope). Seems like the books also need to be queer in some way, but I did enjoy Book Lovers even though that was an heterosexual one. Usually funny books work the best for me in this genre and I have been noticing that the ones I find funny are by authors from the UK (not surprised at all about this tbh), but I also think I would enjoy something dramatic. I mean, Glitterland had an mc dealing with mental health and got quite heart hitting at times. Seems that I also like series that focus on a different person in a friend group or something. For example, a character is introduced in the first book and they are just a friend of the main character or a sibling or whatever and then they get their own story in the next book in the series.

This is all to ask what are the standouts in this genre? The ones that you love, especially if you are also picky about contemporary romance and like when it makes you laugh or cry (preferably both).

I have been adding books to try on my tbr, but I still don't exactly know where to start.

Books I really liked so far:

Glitterland by Alexis Hall: I had some little problems with this book, but overall I found it dramatic and very funny. I liked to see a main character in romance that was quite unlikeable too and stated that his behaviour could not be excused because of his mental health. I found it pretty unique. I enjoyed Boyfriend Material, but not nearly as much and since that series seems to go on with the same main characters getting married and then having a baby or something I don't think I will continue because those are not the things I like to read about. I do want to read more books by the author though and I plan to continue the Spires series soon.

Heartbreak Boys by Simon James Green: apparently I like YA if it's funny and it doesn't happen in a school setting. This also had some bits I didn't like that came out as a bit preachy, but it made me laugh out loud and the premise is so petty and messy it could only be good (to me).

First and First by Santino Hassel: Fine. I am putting my hands in the fire with this one. I know about the mess surrounding this author now, but I didn't when I started this series (my fault for not researching names I guess). There are two specific scenes I hate in this book, but I would be lying if I said I didn't like it a lot overall. It is messy, a bit kinky and has a lot of smut that makes sense for the plot because it is about a guy learning to let go and not be embarassed about sex. I can't help liking both main characters and their dynamic, but I bet most people would hate it. It also looks quite not set in reality because some of the stuff here is wild and everyone is like "yeah, this could happen" 😂 This also made me like the word "baby" to refer to a love interest just like Robin Hobb made me like the word "beloved". Authors, please, let me be a hater. Still hate the "babe/babes" version even though I tolerated it both in this series and in Glitterland.

Book Lovers by Emily Henry: This was good. Read it last year and I can't remember having any issue with any scenes tbh which makes it weird when I say it's the one I enjoyed the least out of these and yet I would still rank it the highest... I will probably try more books by this author.

Did not like: Red, White and Royal Blue and Get a Life Chloe Brown was good except for the sex scenes. (Unsure if I should try any more Tahlia Hibbert because apparently I dislike the word tit as much as I dislike the word shaft. If it's used once or twice in a book I can bear it but not often)

Authors to try: Cat Sebastian (read 1 book that was ok and I am currently reading the sequel but they are historical romance which surprisingly is not what is working for me at the moment); Ashley Herring Blake and Alison Cochrun.