#wlw ships are something that can be so personal

[chiquilines]

guys i am so frustrated with the lack of wlw ships honestly. Shipping discourse is dumb asf as we are all very aware but it's sad how people will see two random guys who have never talked in their life and go wow!! my yaoi uwu babies <333 they're so in love but god forbid togachako, who are at least on toga's part canonically confirmed to hold romantic feelings and are literally a prewritten enemies to lovers,,, crickets. Come on yall do better

[chocolate-cream-soldier]

-.-

[scarycranegame]

oh on the topic of chappell roan i wanna talk about how i think the discourse about mlm ship content featuring "good luck babe" is dumb.

yes the song itself is about a lesbian whose ex girlfriend is in a compulsory heterosexual relationship, and as such wlw relationships and womanhood and femininity will always be intrinsically relevant and crucial to the song's meaning and importance (especially concerning the phrase, "you're nothing more than his wife", as the status of being "just his wife" is much different from the status of being "just her husband" in a cultural & social sense), but mlm also experience compulsory heterosexuality and thus may heavily relate to the song; and personally, i don't think it's such a bad thing that they relate to it.

i feel like i should also mention that i'm not specifically only talking about cisgay men either; trans men (both binary and nonbinary) also experience the social pressure of feeling as if they need to "prove" they're "real men", which is often equated with being in a heterosexual relationship, and from what i've seen in my own experience online it's become normal for others to mock and belittle men for "never having felt a woman's touch" or getting "no bitches" (among other vaguely comphet & misogynistic "haha funny meme" statements). additionally, men are still relentlessly bullied for being gay. for as many allies and fictional mlm enjoyers there are, there's 10 more school bullies that harass their peers for their sexuality, 10 more parents who kick their sons out for trusting that their family will accept them for who they are, and 10 more dudebros that regularly make homophobic jokes to the discomfort of their closeted friends. even men in mlm relationships are forced into traditional heterosexual roles by others' expectations; i.e., the "who's the man in the relationship" question, the expected/"ideal" mlm couple being a feminine twink and a masculine "real" man (especially when one of the men in the relationship is trans)

in my opinion, i think that while chappell roan's music is heavily based off of being a lesbian and being in relationships with other women (since she is one herself), it's also representative of the general queer experience, and thus relating to it and making art dedicated to it shouldn't be reserved for just one group of people. no amount of animatics or edits posted on twitter or tiktok or anywhere can erase the original context of the song.

additionally if you don't like when people make such content featuring the song, you can just opt to ignore it or block the person who created the content rather than calling them "misogynistic" or "lesbophobic" for relating to a song. it takes much less time and effort.

[katyspersonal]

Tried to play with the concept of 'comphet'... and lost. Not bi erasure justification team anymore </3

[frutigerfischl]

Heyyyyy

Saw your post about wanting some requesting some arcane stuff and I’m so down bad for some jinx stuff 😫😫

Could you pretty pls do a one shot for a jinx and a fem reader where theyre enemies and they have a steamy makeout sesh I am so in love with enemies to lovers😍😍

YOUR KISS AND I WILL SURRENDER

⌗ SONG┆the sharpest lives ★ ₊ ˚⟡

⌗ TAGS┆wlw, fem reader, enemies to lovers, making out, tension, gayness to the max, dominant reader, bratty jinx, violence (nothing too graphic) ★ ₊ ˚⟡

⌗ NOTE┆jinx is my favorite character THEM FOR REQUESTING HER OMFG 💙💙 I loved writing this it was so fun!! (Song doesn't have much to do w the fic, I always link the songs my fics are named after), I AM NOT GREAT AT WRITING MAKE OUT SESSIONS SO BARE W ME ★ ₊ ˚⟡

The mission was already a disaster.

Jinx, of course, had made sure of that.

You crouched behind a stack of rusted shipping crates, fingers tight around the grip of your pistol, ears ringing from the explosion she’d set off not ten minutes ago. Smoke curled through the air, cutting visibility to hell, while muffled shouts and the clang of boots echoed from the far side of the docks. Whoever ran this operation wasn’t going to let you or Jinx leave without a fight.

If only you were working together instead of at each other’s throats.

“Nice job, powder-keg,” you muttered under your breath, shifting your weight as you scanned for movement.

“Wasn’t my fault you tripped the silent alarm!” came her sing-song reply, disembodied and maddening.

She wasn’t far, judging by the faint static of her comm. You swore you’d smash it the second you caught her. “You blew the damn shipment before I got to the vault, you twitchy lunatic!”

A laugh, high and sharp, cut through the haze. “You’re welcome. What can I say? Big booms make big fun.”

Your jaw tightened. Typical Jinx. You weren’t sure why you’d ever thought stealing from Silco’s warehouses would go unnoticed. The moment she showed up, the job became less about money and more about survival—keeping up with her shit and staying one step ahead.

Somehow, she always made it personal.

Another explosion rattled the air, closer this time, and you ducked as the force slammed against the crates. Sparks danced in your vision as a blur of color—blue hair, shredded bomber jacket—darted into view.

You lunged.

Jinx barely had time to react before your shoulder slammed into her, throwing her back against a support beam. She yelped, twisting in your grip, but you pinned her wrists in place, inches from her flare gun. “What the hell is wrong with you?” you snapped, chest heaving, adrenaline pumping through your veins. “Are you trying to get us both killed?”

Her lips curled into a grin, wide and unhinged. “Only one of us, really. You’re just collateral.”

“Funny.” You leaned in closer, ignoring the way her pupils flicked down, just for a second, to your mouth. “Here’s the thing, sweetheart: I’m not dying tonight. And if you ruin another job for me, I’ll make sure you don’t, either.”

Jinx giggled, head tilting, her breath warm against your cheek. “Ooh, scary. Got a thing for threats, do ya? Maybe that’s why you like chasing me around.”

“Like hell I—”

She interrupted you with a headbutt. Pain burst across your skull, but you didn’t let go—couldn’t. Instead, you shoved her harder against the beam, forcing a startled gasp from her lips.

“Watch it, brat,” you hissed, voice dropping low. “You’re playing with fire.”

Her laugh faltered, blue eyes widening just slightly before narrowing again. “And you’re no fun. Bet you don’t even know how to lighten up.”

Something inside you snapped. Maybe it was the headache she’d just given you, maybe it was her smug grin, or maybe it was the way she kept testing you, daring you to cross the line.

You kissed her.

Hard.

Jinx froze for all of a heartbeat, her sharp edges softening under the sudden force of your mouth against hers. Then, just as quickly, she surged into it—biting, demanding, her teeth scraping against your bottom lip as if she wanted to take something from you.

Her hands twisted in your grip, but you didn’t let go, keeping her pinned as you deepened the kiss, rough and unforgiving. Your teeth clashed, lips bruising against hers as she arched into you, a frustrated sound escaping her throat.

“Is that all you’ve got?” she mumbled against your mouth, taunting even now, her breath hot and heavy.

“Shut up.” You bit her bottom lip in retaliation, drawing a startled, delighted moan. Your free hand tangled in the tattered fabric of her bomber jacket, yanking her closer until there was nothing but heat and chaos between you.

Jinx kissed like she fought—with reckless abandon, no plan, no care for the consequences. Her tongue slid against yours, teasing and fierce, and you hated how good it felt, how her chaos pulled you under like quicksand.

You pulled back just enough to catch your breath, your forehead resting against hers. Her lips were swollen, cheeks flushed, and her grin was wider than ever.

“Aw, leaving already?” she teased, her voice breathless, taunting.

You smirked, brushing your thumb against her cheek in mock tenderness. “Don’t flatter yourself, powder-keg. You’re not worth the cleanup.”

Before she could respond, you pushed her back and stepped away, letting the shadows swallow you whole.

“Catch you next time, sweetheart,” you called over your shoulder, your voice dripping with mockery.

Jinx’s laughter echoed behind you, sharp and wild, but your pulse was louder, your lips still burning from hers.

[olderthannetfic]

/olderthannetfic/769334704445997057/another-fandometrics-year-in-review-another-bevy

I am - genuinely - very sympathetic to the frustrations of solely f/f shippers and I DO think some people are a little too quick to shrug off the lack of f/f in fandom spaces with “lack of representation in media what can you do” when fandom is all about assigning personalities and backstories to one-line characters. HOWEVER. As someone who likes all kinds of ships, the experiences I have had across many MANY fandoms with solely f/f shippers treating people who also liked the main m/m ship as traitors and bad feminists, not to mention the number of people who have told me, a trans man, that I HAVE to write more f/f and less m/m For The Sisterhood, has made me LESS likely to engage in f/f, not more. Some of y’all are your own worst enemy when it comes to this stuff I swear. (Hashtag not all femslashers, hashtag some of my best friends are femslashers, etc)

--

Demands that people defend and explain perfectly commonplace things always end up generating dumber and dumber explanations.

I agree that that explanation by itself is kind of weak, but "Why are you asking only about AO3?" (as people often are) plus representation problems plus the other commonly cited reasons add up to a perfectly sufficient explanation. People just don't like what they're hearing.

--

The kind of f/f fandom people are often looking for—a by cis wlw, for cis wlw one—is not that different in size from the by cis mlm, for cis mlm one. They are both small.

Yes, I know they pretend that's not what they mean. They are lying. Possibly to themselves. Just look at the bawwwwing over the idea that cis men liking f/f could add to the amount of f/f art or the audience for the same.

Many AO3 slashers are better compared to transbian catgirls making lesbian furry porn or cis dudes horny for Buffy/Faith or something. There are plenty of people who care about f/f. They're just not necessarily the ~right~ people in the right spaces making the right art to count in some wanker's statistics.

Part of the reason our explanations and discussions always sound so bonkers is that we constantly compare apples to oranges.

--

And while we're at it, let's talk about that hoary old ~one-line character~ thing.

The reality is that we like to talk about how we elevate random walk-on characters, but the vast majority of shippy AO3 fanfic is about fairly major characters. Clint/Coulson was bizarrely popular in 2012. It has been twelve years. It is time to get over it.

On top of most things focusing on leads, the focus is often on characters who are given a lot of interiority. The audience is invited to be in their head and care about their feelings. People aren't usually good at analyzing film, so they use more familiar metrics involving text: how many lines do they have in the script? How many minutes does that translate to on screen? They don't know how to quantify a character being treated as an object to be looked at beyond "Booty shorts bad". But it's not general sex appeal or amount of skin on display that matters here.

As audiences, we respond to film grammar and "Just happen to like" or not like some character as a result of it, but we aren't aware of the mechanics, so we can't explain why beyond vague spluttering and "How dare you! Everyone should think this because it's the natural response!"

In general, media with multiple central women who have intense relationships with each other and who are conventionally attractive generate plenty of interest in f/f. Media with one hot girl who has the camera trained on her ass all the time while the men do everything interesting usually don't.

It's a no brainer and the harebrained explanations come from trying to look deeper to find the secret conspiracy where there is none.

--

The biggest mistake of most of this dumb discourse is "But I see all these queer women here. Why isn't there more f/f?"

This presupposes some default "normal" level of f/f without any actual justification for why that would be expected. You see the same nonsense from people going "Why is there so much m/m?"

What's the default? 10% because of the fake statistic that 10% of people are gay? 75% because action movies are sausagefests and all the important relationships are between men? What's the "normal" level of femslash? 25% because f/f, f/m, m/m, and gen are all equally valid? 80% because lots of fanfic writers are women?

Chasing one precise number is a fool's errand, but building a whole theory on the idea that there's an implicit number without even digging into that assumption is more foolish still.

When you look at the fanfic (or art!) spaces that are full of dudes, they often look like a bit of a mirror of AO3. Lots of het still. Lots of f/f. Lots of lady blorbos people are obsessed with. Limited m/m. Depending on the space, there might be a lot more gen. It's not perfectly 1:1, but then AO3 isn't precisely like other chick-heavy fanfic spaces anyway.

--

In my experience, the thing that makes a blorbo take off is that they're fairly major in canon, often driving the narrative even if they aren't the main protagonist, and they show up early.

In the cases where they weren't there at the very beginning, them showing up was the catalyst for fans who like this type of character to get into the canon at all. It's not just Castiel: you see it with Methos from Highlander and plenty of others. It's usually in a context where that fandom didn't have that much established for this type of fan. There wasn't a second dude to pair the lead with or the ship turned some people off or something. Highlander, for example, had fucktons of het shippers, both of canon het and of various OFCs and canon dudes. It was the slashers who stampeded over there when friends told them there was new ship potential for m/m. SPN... Sam/Dean was very popular on LJ, but I think it's obvious why a viable non-brother ship was of interest to people. I watched tons of people get pimped into Teen Wolf for Sterek. Of course they ended up liking it and not really caring about other ships: they were pre-selected to like that specific vibe. (And they are all wrong because Scott is the best and Derek has weird teeth.) The same thing happens with f/f. People get into media all the time because they're promised such-and-such a ship dynamic.

Wynonna Earp had plenty of people who were there for the women because the women are who matter for the most part. People were super into the canon f/f because it's hot and because it didn't seem like they were just going to get hit by a bus and shooed out of the narrative.

How many things that everybody and their sister saw have that many main women who matter? Some, definitely, but they're outnumbered by the sausagefests and by the things with very central het. Not everything with a huge audience gets a big fanfic fandom, but most things with big fanfic fandoms do have a big audience. You need critical mass to make a fandom happen.

Something like MCU has a variety of tasty shipping options, but the characters it spent all its time on first were the small selection of guys fandom cares the most about. When other characters were established very early, they also had an early spurt of fandom. I can't be the only one who remembers Pepperony fandom on LJ. It wasn't just people tagging canon ships in the background: Pepper/Tony shippers were a whole thing.

Yes, there are exceptions, but we make a big deal of them while ignoring the overall pattern.

Again, it is time to get over Clint/Coulson, Arthur/Eames, and people hallucinating that Hux had a personality in that first movie.

These are rare exceptions, and they're all snark-based at that. Darcy Lewis was also obnoxiously popular based solely on a few lines of snark, but that didn't count because she wasn't the correct and virtuous choice of favorite female character.

(Seriously, you should have seen the whining about all the people horny for Darcy who didn't give a fuck about boring Jane. Sorry, but your blorbo is a snooze and mine has amazing tits in addition to being funny.)

--

Let's go look at what's big on AO3 since it's easy and that's what other lazy statistics compilers do and then base their whining on:

Looking at the M/M tag, here's the sidebar:

Castiel/Dean Winchester (111856)

Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter (70823)

Derek Hale/Stiles Stilinski (70134)

Sherlock Holmes/John Watson (67796)

James "Bucky" Barnes/Steve Rogers (61397)

Aziraphale/Crowley (Good Omens) (56548)

Minor or Background Relationship(s) (55109)

Sirius Black/Remus Lupin (49179)

Bakugou Katsuki/Midoriya Izuku (46679)

Steve Rogers/Tony Stark (44754)

I'm seeing canons with huge audiences. Teen Wolf and SPN are way more popular in fanfic fandom, relatively speaking, but they're certainly not obscure media.

I'm seeing a lot of leads. Sirius/Remus does stand out a little: they aren't walk-ons, but fanon did elevate them. Same with Draco, but main protagonist/most obvious nemesis is hardly a surprising ship type.

Let's play with exclude filters and see what's next (numbers won't be exact since this is via excluding the previous batches):

Harry Styles/Louis Tomlinson (43234)

Lan Zhan | Lan Wangji/Wei Ying | Wei Wuxian (40115)

Jeon Jungkook/Kim Taehyung | V (38398)

Keith/Lance (Voltron) (32757)

Dazai Osamu/Nakahara Chuuya (Bungou Stray Dogs) (32744)

Dean Winchester/Sam Winchester (31834)

Evan "Buck" Buckley/Eddie Diaz (9-1-1 TV) (31527)

Merlin/Arthur Pendragon (Merlin) (31011)

Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter (30819)

Magnus Bane/Alec Lightwood (30133)

Steve Harrington/Eddie Munson (27403)

Original Male Character/Original Male Character (26854)

Bakugou Katsuki/Kirishima Eijirou (26854)

Jeon Jungkook/Park Jimin (26454)

Katsuki Yuuri/Victor Nikiforov (26453)

Clay | Dream/GeorgeNotFound (Video Blogging RPF) (21154)

Geralt z Rivii | Geralt of Rivia/Jaskier | Dandelion (20946)

James T. Kirk/Spock (20716)

Min Yoongi | Suga/Park Jimin (20561)

Blackbeard | Edward Teach/Stede Bonnet (20113)

Iwaizumi Hajime/Oikawa Tooru (20039)

Hinata Shouyou/Kageyama Tobio (18806)

Blaine Anderson/Kurt Hummel (18013)

Erik Lehnsherr/Charles Xavier (17577)

Dan Howell/Phil Lester (17518)

Levi Ackerman/Eren Yeager (17404)

Han Jisung | Han/Lee Minho | Lee Know (17390)

Akaashi Keiji/Bokuto Koutarou (17141)

Tartaglia | Childe/Zhongli (Genshin Impact) (17041)

Harry Potter/Severus Snape (16773)

Oh look: more leads.

Sure, there are some little oddities, like the fact that taekook is obviously the worst BTS ship and it is a personal attack on me that it is that popular. But come the fuck on: this is a parade of some of the most famous musicians and most popular anime, shows that had huge audiences and particularly huge audiences of the type that like fanfic.

Let's have a look at f/m:

Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir/Marinette Dupain-Cheng | Ladybug (33773)

Hermione Granger/Draco Malfoy (33031)

Original Female Character(s)/Original Male Character(s) (29586)

Rey/Ben Solo | Kylo Ren (24192)

Minor or Background Relationship(s) (21606)

James Potter/Lily Evans Potter (21088)

Kylo Ren/Rey (16028)

James "Bucky" Barnes/Reader (15922)

Hermione Granger/Ron Weasley (15635)

Sirius Black/Remus Lupin (15335)

Pepper Potts/Tony Stark (14552)

Fox Mulder/Dana Scully (14214)

Bellamy Blake/Clarke Griffin (13616)

Annabeth Chase/Percy Jackson (11471)

Oliver Queen/Felicity Smoak (11383)

Captain Hook | Killian Jones/Emma Swan (11272)

Castiel/Dean Winchester (11187)

Other Relationship Tags to Be Added (10529)

Clint Barton/Natasha Romanov (9750)

Original Character(s)/Original Character(s) (9736)

Okay, it is AO3 after all, so some m/m ships have snuck in there, but the general trend is still leads, leads, leads, now with some readerfic. (For James/Lily, you can blame the insanity that is Marauders fandom on TikTok, or so I hear.)

And f/f:

Kara Danvers/Lena Luthor (21520)

Original Female Character(s)/Original Female Character(s) (17873)

Evil Queen | Regina Mills/Emma Swan (16168)

Minor or Background Relationship(s) (13681)

Clarke Griffin/Lexa (12876)

Adora/Catra (She-Ra) (11532)

Amity Blight/Luz Noceda (10880)

Sirius Black/Remus Lupin (10532)

Caitlyn/Vi (League of Legends) (8925)

Blake Belladonna/Yang Xiao Long (7766)

Robin Buckley/Nancy Wheeler (7369)

Korra/Asami Sato (7146)

Wednesday Addams/Enid Sinclair (6720)

Other Relationship Tags to Be Added (6684)

Waverly Earp/Nicole Haught (5764)

Original Character(s)/Original Character(s) (5529)

Chloe Beale/Beca Mitchell (5347)

Laura Hollis/Carmilla Karnstein (4895)

Jirou Kyouka/Yaoyorozu Momo (4662)

Charlie Magne | Morningstar/Vaggie (4402)

Thirteenth Doctor/Yasmin Khan (4284)

Alex Danvers/Maggie Sawyer (4223)

Rose Lalonde/Kanaya Maryam (3936)

Eve Polastri/Villanelle | Oksana Astankova (3876)

Maya Bishop/Carina DeLuca (3700)

Sister Beatrice/Ava Silva (3689)

Castiel/Dean Winchester (3664)

Maxine "Max" Caulfield/Chloe Price (3471)

Miranda Priestly/Andrea Sachs (3394)

Ruby Rose/Weiss Schnee (3324)

Carmilla might be a little obscure compared to some media, and some other ships have snuck in here, but again, we're seeing some fairly prominent canons and the leads or at least main cast who have intense relationships in those canons. If most fantasy tv shows were Once Upon a Time, all of AO3 might be awash in nothing but swanqueen and captainswan.

The big thing that one sees is simply that f/f fandom often revolves around different media, while m/m and f/m are more likely to be into the same stuff that's full, full, full of main dudes getting to do things with one woman who matters.

We do not, in general, elevate anybody.

Not unless some very talented writer leads the way first with a juicy longfic that establishes all the fanon.

We repeat the myth that we do because it suits a certain narrative about how creative and transformative fandom is—and another equally popular narrative about how the lack of ship A/B is a ~conspiracy~ to rob one of one's rightful overflowing feed trough of fic.

It's bullshit.

We write about leads.

[multifandomloverthrowaway]

Viktor Was a Wasted Character

(But are we really surprised?)

This is my first post ever on Tumblr so please be nice! This is in no way hate towards any particular character or ship; personally I love Viktor as a character and all his ships, and that’s the main reason why I’m posting this. I also know like no LoL lore, so please bear with me. I’m just going to rant and dump my thoughts out here since I don’t really have fans in person to talk to about this, and it’s really bugging me lol!

That being said, I just watched season two, and after sitting with it’s ending, I do not think that the story told in the season is well thought out, and it can be very heavily seen in how characters are treated both in the show and in the fandom. It’s quite disheartening to see the fandom going through the peak-fandom era treatment of mlm and wlw relationships, and the overall treatment of the characters can be a little trashy. How people see Viktor can be very degrading and objectifying, and the whole ship wars and fallout with JayVik is absolutely disgusting. It makes me feel that many watchers did not fully understand Viktor’s character. And to a certain extent, the writers did not care for it either.

Viktor’s character represents what would happen if a Zaunite were able to become “successful” in the eyes of Piltover. Someone who had the intellect and ambition to supersede the conditions in Zaun and were able to compete with those raised in the “better city”. Thus, the questions of “How did they get to their place in Piltover?”, “What flaws do they have?”, “What is holding them back?”, “What is their experience in Piltover like?”, “Are they accepted?”, “Is there prejudice?”, and “What was their life in Zaun like?” are the core questions that make the character and their arc. This character is particularly important because this is the character that shows that those who are oppressed, no matter how “good” they are, will never be good enough in the eyes of the oppressor, especially if they have faults of their own. Viktor is fundamental to the message of season one Arcane. He helps to complete the story in its exploration of class, social, and political divide by personifying that “what if it could work” gap.

Viktor naturally then must be an internally strong character. Giving Viktor a disability is not just good inclusion, but also a good internal motivator. We as the audience then see that his key goal to help Zaun is not rooted in pity for a former home, but rather the cause of an injustice that he was a victim to. We see his steadfastness in going after opportunities that he thinks will benefit Zaun and humanity, and constant relentless means to get there. This is in stark contrast to his personal life. His deeply rooted sentiment that he must be alone because of his disability, along with perceptions of his disability and birthplace, are why he is a closed person only reaching for science, despite being quite empathetic. They also set up his two main conflicts:

1. He is dying with little time to finish his goal of helping Zaun and humanity

and

2. The people around him want to weaponize his creation into something that can be used against his hometown

These conflicts are where the plot fumbled the character. Firstly, we do not see any ties between him and Zaun other than his illness and that he grew up there. Where are his parents that supposedly love him so much? What is his relationship with Sky, which he supposedly cared enough for to bring out of Zaun to work with him and Jayce? His lack of well developed relationships with other characters other than Jayce hurt his character development from occurring naturally. It’s why Sky’s death doesn’t feel like anything. Despite Viktor seeing her in the realm as a metaphor to his shred of humanity left, his garden dedicated to her, her emblem on his robe, we don’t know their relationship or history in his eyes. (It should have been that they were in at least a friendship. Anything less than that would not fit Viktor’s character.) We don’t see him interact that much with Mel, despite her being his close friend’s love interest. We do not see him interact with doctors or his parents. What other real relationship does he have depicted in the show other than, well, Jayce? The only other is perhaps Singed. How do these relationships play into his self perception, and perception of humanity?

Combining his deteriorating friendship with Jayce over politics and with understanding that his work will be used against him without his credit or his voice should set Viktor up for him to make decisions that will naturally lead into his lore as we know it; to create something that allows him to fix himself and others while simultaneously corrupting him, especially in Zaun. Instead in season two we see that path taken away from him within the first Act after he is fused with magic because of Jayce. This is a pity because it makes Viktor reliant on Jayce’s decisions in a way that is outside of their parallel to the power struggle between Zaun and Piltover and thus takes away from his authority as a character - his decision to fuse himself with magic and machinery to go against Piltover needed to be a result of his decisions and actions, not of someone else and magic!

Giving that narrative decision to Jayce also leaves no organic way for Jayce to come to realize who Viktor is as a person outside of just a “partner”. This is especially apparent during the finale, in which Jayce’s love for Viktor is boiled down to “I love you for who you are”… though that undermines Viktor’s illness, why that illness exists and thus his reason to be a character, and by extension… Zaun’s struggle. And yet, Viktor dies accepting Jayce’s words, despite them undermining the reason he exists! Each time Viktor is yet again denied that choice to be what his character represents. Instead he is used as the crutch to Jayce until the end of the second season. This is also why the multidimensional time travel does not work with Viktor being the mage that gives Jayce magic; Viktor’s destiny is then settled firmly in Jayce’s hands and not his own. They are not soulmates; only one’s life depends on the other’s.

Viktor then, despite having some good foundation, never becomes the full representation that his character could be. We see no growth of his insecurities and setbacks that allow him to make the choice to become who is meant to be. Rather we see that narrative handed to another character who does not fulfill his character arc fully either.

It is no surprise to see the JayVik shippers in this case. Because Viktor is so dependent on Jayce in the narrative, there is no other natural relationship for him. This is despite the fact that Viktor’s sax orientation shouldn’t be of speculation, because in the case of the story, it doesn’t matter. Whether or not Viktor is able to have physical attraction to another person is not the core of his story nor his character. (Which is why his ace designation should not be controversial.) However, that his ability to make meaningful connections with the people in his lives, whether as friends or romantically, is. And we do not see that with any other person but Jayce, who cannot not see him as a full person due to the narrative. Viktor, at his essence, is a man whose agency has been taken from him by the narrative.

The better case in the narrative would have been to let the two part their separate ways after the death of Sky and the council attack, and let Viktor be the tragic hero he was made for. The love between each character that was to have a relationship with Viktor would have been that much more apparent, especially with Sky and Jayce. Then perhaps we would not see Viktor become the “disabled tw!nk whose real relationship could have only been with Jayce because only they truly knew and loved each other” because no. Only they didn’t. Viktor always had so much more, which included Jayce, Mel, Sky, and could have been far more! He just wasn’t given the means to explore it. And not by just the characters in Arcane. By the writers too.

[arcaneconfessions]

Remember the joke "jayvik's last moments feels gayer than caitvi sex"? I personally think it's funny ,but I can understand why someone, especially a caitvi shipper, finds it annoying. Though yall gotta remember it's mainly joke and is not meant to be an attack against wlw ship so don't claim that someone saying it, is lesphobic immediately.

I must say though that I honestly think why a lot of people resonate with this joke is because, yeah it's funny to say, but I think it's mainly because the implications, or rather the emotions it brought out to the people. CaitVi sex scene is good and all, but feels very fanservice and it doesn't help the mood at all when you remember the whole Jinx situation. If the intention is to create a parallel similar to what happened with the "JayMel Sex that keeps cutting into Viktor" scene, well it didn't work that well.

Anyways, continuing on, the whole JayVik scene just screams love, whether it's platonic or romantic, where it gives you more emotional impact. It also helps with how Jayce and Viktor's dynamic is and their interactions with one another. Also, despite the difference in upbringing, they try and see one another as equals. There is some hiccups, but they always go back to one another as equal. The scene also feels wholesome or rather you can feel the understanding and connection between the them. Lastly, the lines they both said to one another. You know the feeling when you feel ashamed of something about yourself and what you did but someone you care about still accepted you and stayed with you or you acknowledging and deciding to stay with someone despite their flaws or possible hardships you'll face together due to uncontrollable circumstances. That whole scene feels like that (atleast to me), it's emotional, vulnerable, and very heartfelt. The JayVik end scene is not gayer literally, but rather what it really shows us is how the JayVik end scene has a more emotional depth, because it showed the viewers the profound undertsanding and care they both have to one another, making it more impactful compared to the CaitVi sex scene.

Another ship that gave a better emotional impact is TimeBomb. Their relationship dynamic for one another is always in the bg, except the whole s2 ep7 and part of ep9. And man, they make use of their time for those scenes effectively and efficiently. Powder and Ekko's dance and kiss scene has more impact then CaitVi's sex scene as well.

If any ya'll think it's this is just a complaint of someone against a sex scene in general hence not vibing with it, the JayMel scene gave a better impact that feels natural and not fanservice. Like yeah, they had sex like CaitVi but that moment is perfectly done and didn't feel out of nowhere. It served the narrative and symbolism. It showed us that, Mel can and will manipluate the situation in her favor, but also showed to us that she became attached to Jayce emotionally that she feels hurt by Jayce not being beside her when she woke up. At the same time, shows us Jayce, despite being well meaning, is turning into a politician rather than a scientist the closer he got with Mel, which unintentionally is like betraying Viktor in some way. The whole CaitVi scene also, supposedly, does the same thing and idea, but feels uneasy, offputting, underserved, so sudden or like " oh.... ok. This is happening" typa way. You can remove the scene and it wouldn't change the story. There isn't a direct effect on later scenes, like the scene where Mel is upset with Jayce and Jayce saying he went to Viktor bc he's dying. It also serves as a set up to show Mel's different side that's not political or scheming and manipluating something into her favor, but her emotions or personal stance in things.

Basically, the CaitVi sex scene does not properly serve the narrative or gave a major emotional payoff/impact as big as other scenes for other relationships to the viewers, unless if you're looking forward a CaitVi sex. It might have given a big impact for the wlw ship community, but for the character arc or the story's progression, it's very fanservice. Nothing wrong with fanservice, but don't be surprised if it doesn't affect other people the same way, especially if they're not as heavily invested on it.

Anyways, love ya'll. 💙💙💙

.

[princess-charlie-of-hell]

Why does the fandom acts like Charlastor/Radiobelle is the worst ship in existence?

(This post is going to be pro Charlastor and contains anti Radioapple if you have a problem with it please either stop reading or at least stay respectful)

This is something which annoys me for a long time because the hate this ship gets is so over exaggerated in my opinion.

I am not saying that you are not allowed to dislike or hate this ship because i am myself someone who dislikes a ship sometimes for the silliest reason. But every time i see "what is the worst Hazbin Hotel and why is it Charlastor" or anything similar to it, I just can't take it serious anymore

This is why I am making this post to argue against some points which people always make against Radiobelle

"Alastor and Charlie have a Father-Daughter bond"

I already made a post why I dislike this whole trope but i write it here again because some people think this is Canon despite Alastor just acting like her father to annoy Lucifer. Because we only see Alastor acting like this in Dad beats dad and never before or after this again and Vivziepop even said it.

"Shipping Charlie and Alastor is WLW erasure and Charlie is with Vaggie"

This seems to be one of the main reason people are against Radiobelle but i think that something like this shouldn't be a problem because 1. Charlie is canonically Bi and so there shouldn't be a problem shipping her with a man and 2. Just because something is shipped in Fanon doesn't mean that the Canon ship is no longer Canon. Chaggie is Canon and I am happy about it because I love this ship too.

"That ship would be Toxic"

I have bad news to tell people but let's face it almost all Alastor ships are somehow toxic except maybe Radiorose. Alastor is not a good person and he would manipulate probably every person he mainly gets ship it like Lucifer or Vox, so I find it stupid to complain about this with only Charlastor

"The Age gap between the two are too huge, Alastor is too old for her"

This always make me roll my eyes because 1. Both are adults so who cares and 2. Charlie is canonically older than Alastor. For me this is always fandoms confusing naivity with being Childish.

"Alastor is canonically Ace"

Ace people can have romantic relationship too but if you don't feel comfortable with shipping him with others I won't say anything against it, I just dislike it when it gets comments it under fan art of any ship posts

This last part is just my opinion but I can't help thinking that this ship would be much more popular and wouldn't get that much hate if Charlie were a man or Alastor a woman. Image this whole scene

but with a male Charlie or any other male character. The fandom would have gone crazy and say how Alastor tried to seduce Charlie or tag it with "toxic yaoi". I already saw this whole scene redraw with Lucifer instead of Charlie and it was posted as Radioapple. I even think that if Alastor would be a woman she would be called a ace lesbian because Alastor in Canon dislikes men.

(Here starts the main anti Radioapple part so be warned)

Like I said I saw a pair scene redraw with Lucifer instead of Charlie with scenes between Charlie and Alastor and they often got posted under Radioapple and the fans loved it, so I wonder that Maybe people actually see romantic undertones between Charlie and Alastor but they just dislike Radiobelle or maybe just M/F ships so they just take Lucifer and swap him with Charlie so that they can have a M/M version

This post got longer than expected ups.

This was mostly a post for me to vent because I see sometimes people saying Charlastor is as bad as V*angel and it drives me crazy. Radiobelle isn't everyone cups of tea and that is OK but sometimes I see someone write under Charlie/Alastor fanart "I am just going to image it is Radioapple" or that what I hate at most when somebody makes fanchildren of them and shippers of radioapple use them for their ship and it makes my blood boil because for me this so disrespectful to the artist who put time and work in them.

[devondeal]

Long Chaggie rant ahead

I think a reason Chaggie get called "boring" is that they are waayyy past that beginning stage of their relationship TV love to glamorize.

They've been together for three years and already have that comfort level with each other that not everything is a new discovery. They accept each other's differences and just support. That's what a well established relationship is like.

Of course they are still heavily affectionate and loving with each other because duh, they're in love. Society loves to repeat the bullshit "losing the spark" problem in relationships and how "marriage is so hard" but most of these situations are people that barely even like each other let alone love.

I think that's why media loves showing either beginning stage relationships OR trope-y enemies to lovers and variants of that.

ESPECIALLY in the case of queer relationships because it's only fairly recently that it's been normalized onscreen and I don't think we're used to seeing a normal queer relationship. Like think about it.

Media has always loved showing the gays as deviant and toxic because that's been the only way it was allowed to be seen. I think many of us have gotten used to seeing ourselves that way that it's been normalized.

Personally, I'm in the boat of I'm sick being seen as deviant and like it's bad and wrong thing to be in love with someone of the same sex. For me, Chaggie has been healing because it's just two women being a healthy happy couple. Something that society and even family have told me is not possible which hurts beyond words to hear.

So yeah, I love Chaggie. It is the best wlw canon ship in fucking YEARS and I have been craving representation like this. The very things that I get dirty looks at for irl, is completely normal with Chaggie.

They can hold hands, lean in together arm around shoulder, quick casual kisses in public, give each other goo-goo eyes, just general affection and couple-y behavior as well as the "been together for 3 years" quirks and routines. Like I swear I cannot remember any other wlw ship like this so yeah, it's gonna hit me hard in the feels.

And when characters like Lute and Adam are disgusted or fetishize it, it's very obviously portrayed as villainous behavior. Everyone else just accepts them as they are.

Of course it's not just the normalization of those things but specifically in the context of they've been together for 3 years and are still very much in love and have nothing to prove to each other and just face any conflicts as they come like a normal couple.

Most media especially TV have gay couples break up after that amount of time just for drama points and cuz us gays cant ever last in a long term relationship apparently 😒 And I feel like that especially goes for lesbian relationships on TV. I've seen wayyy more long terms mlm relationships than wlw in main roles.

(Wonder if that's cuz it's just so unbelievable that women could actually love each other cuz society just is so attached to the idea that all women hate each other)

Basically fuck Chaggie hate. We need more wlw long term relationships like this onscreen. I'm tired of being seen as deviant and likely to be toxic. And I'm not saying they need to be perfect. They're obviously not and have some issues but that's a good thing. Every couple has issues.

I'm just saying not all gay onscreen need to almost destroy their relationship in order to repair it.

I just really find it incredibly annoying that some will slap the "boring" label on Chaggie when it's more likely that a long term healthy happy wlw relationship is just that bizarre to them. Just let women actually love women for fuck's sake.

[flurry-of-beaus-pop-pop]

Let's have a talk...

Over the past few days the fandom has begun to panic, worrying that the focus of Agatha All Along will shift away from Agatha / Rio or that Rio will betray Agatha or any other number of potential scenarios.

And I get it, I really do. The wlw community has been through it when it comes to wlw representation in movies/television.

But with this panic has come another type of conversation... one that states that depending on how the next few episodes go for Agatha / Rio, Jac Schaeffer can either become a hero to sapphics or an enemy to sapphics.

This kind of rhetoric, in my opinion, is unhelpful.

First of all, Agatha All Along is, at the end of the day, an MCU show under the umbrella of Disney... while Jac has ushered in some amazing wlw content so far, it is entirely possible (and also likely) that there are some restrictions as to what Jac is able to include in the show, and that if something we want to happen, doesn't happen, it's because people with far more power than Jac, said so - if this is the case, I'm not saying don't be upset. Letting our voices be heard is how things change. Just make sure your voices are directed at the RIGHT people, not at the person that gave us all they could with the freedon they were granted.

Second, while I 100% understand wanting a happy ending for Agatha & Rio, and have all of my fingers and toes crossed that a happy ending for them becomes a reality, I also think it is time that we move past the very black and white thinking of: happy ending = acceptable: anything else = unacceptable.

I am never going to tell anyone to not want a happy ending for their favorite ship, or to not be upset if their favorite ship doesn't have a happy ending... all I'm saying is that we start to think about these ships in the context of the setting they are portrayed in, that we recognize that not all stories have happy endings, but that doesn't make it a bad story, or the creator of that story, an enemy to the community/a bad person.

Take Agatha All Along for example... it's entirely possible that this story ends with something happening to Agatha or something happening to Rio or simply Agatha and Rio going their separate ways, but that doesn't have to make their story lesser... if Agatha gets the closure she needs? If Rio gets the forgiveness she seeks? Those can make a story just as magical as a happy ending.

I don't know... maybe it's just me, but as one of the very few people that actually enjoyed the ending of Killing Eve, because I never once expected it to end with them running off into the sunset together (the show literally had the tile Killing Eve and was about an assassin network that never seemed to disappear) I was able to see the beauty in the relationship they had, in the moments they shared, and in the heartache of how it ended, and I just don't want Agatha All Along to be written off as "bad" or "queerbaiting" or as "disappointing" because it might not end how people want it to.

[aretheyqueer]

Is your blorbo gay? trans? ace? Does no one else see the vision?

Then welcome to @/aretheyqueer where we vote to determine who's lgbt and who's not. Everything decided through this will legally become canon. (Unless you don't want it to be).

The blog is run by an agender bisexual-ish person. My pronouns are they/them. I also run @do-you-ship-it-polls and @do-you-know-this-baby (way too many)

I have anonymous asks turned off, but feel free to dm me if there's something you'd like to ask/say privately.

Clarification:

With lgbt+, I include anything you can think of basically. Lesbian, gay, bi, asexual, aromantic, pansexual, intersex, xenogenders. However, this is only for non-canon identities. If they are canonically lgbt, then I highly recommend @do-you-know-this-queer-character and @douknowthisgaydisabledcharacter . You can also put canon trans characters into this spreadsheet!

This is all meant in good fun. Providing a reason for your claim sounds more exciting, but you can submit based on vibes or because you want to. A character can take part in multiple polls. A man can be headcanoned as a lesbian. If you believe it in your heart, it can become reality.

Credit:

I use the pride-themed hearts dividers made by @cafekitsune (link).

Submission rules:

Submissions are currently open. When they are closed, if you see a character in the queue that you'd like to send propaganda/reasoning for, you can dm me or send me an ask with your addition. I won't publish these asks.

Submit through the form above please!

No real people unless its funny (things like BSD and the Hamilton musical is ok)

They cannot be confirmed to be the identity you're requesting - but they can show traits for it. A wlw character can get a poll as a lesbian or bisexual, for example. An unspecified non-cis character can get a poll as nonbinary. Etc.

This will not be followed 100% because I am dumb. don't kill me

No Harry Potter, Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss. Sorry!

Here is a spreadsheet of submissions i've received, in case you don't want to submit something that's already submitted, or want to add additional propaganda/reasoning.

It doesn't update automatically, so your request won't shop up immediately.

Similar blogs:

(none associated with me)

@aretheybisexual

@are-they-trans

@is-the-character-aroacespec

@are-they-a-faggot

Fandom jail

None!

Tags:

#gay , #lesbian , #trans etc for each label.

You can also use #[identity] headcanon

#anime , #tv shows , #video games etc for each media.

#asks , #not a poll

Updates:

Submissions are currently open.

Please behave <3

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

Aita for not making any of my characters, that I have to crank out daily, pansexual/polysexual/omnisexual specifically and only making them bi?

🏳️‍🌈👶🏼 so i can recognize this later lmao also I'm not panphobic or anything, this isn't about the validity of the label, pan is fine.

So i (20snb bi) have a project I'm working on where I take all the characters from a specifc media I'm into and pair them up with each other to make every possible ship kid from every possible ship(excluding characters who are kids themselves or are related or something, that shit is gross). Basically taking every character and pairing them up with another and creating a kid I think they'd have. Its a big project with lots of characters and I'm easily over 400 at this point. I really enjoy this, even if I'm not even 25% complete.

However I set a schedule for myself that at least one ship kid needs to come out each day which, considering I draw them, color them and give them some development and some even have siblings, (The refs themselves easily take me an hour to an hour and a half) I have to make lots of them quickly to keep up with my daily grind. I've been doing this project for over a year and although it's stressful, I can get them out quickly with breaks for myself.

Their character sheets all have some pretty basic info like their name, gender, pronouns, personality and more but it also includes their sexuality/orientation. I have a pretty basic list of options for what their sexuality will be: straight, lesbian, gay, Enbian, bi, Aro, ace and aroace with a few random things like polyam, WLW and a good amount of the something-loving-something/juvelic terms. I did this because, well, there's not many entirely unique orientations outside of them and although I love mogai/xenogenders and complex identities, I dont want to potentially drag up discourse or bring problems to my budding art blog over it. Its just not worth it to me to turn something I really care about on its head, even if I like microlabels.

In this case, I'm using bi as an umbrella term as most of the other terms share the same definition with slight variations in wording or action but not much difference in practice. We all like everyone, it's basic stuff. However, apparently this is a problem.

I've gotten one or two anons asking me questions about my guides asking some kind stuff like is this lesbian ship kid a butch or femme or Is this picture of them now or just at the age you put on the ref and other harmless stuff. Then things got rude with some Nbphobia but thrice now I've gotten asks:

1. Asking snarkily if im a panphobe

2. insulting me for not specifically writing pan or Omni and just writing bi.

3. Saying that I "clearly dont care about pansexual representation." Then brought up how my primary oc is native american so i clearly care about representation but that oc used to be a sona and I'm native?? Its confusing. (And Lowkey racist shit to just assume any native character is a "diversity quota" character instead of just a person existing but I digress-)

Im not pan, im bi so ig these people assume I'm not cool with pan people which isnt true? I have nothing aginest them, they are just pretty similar and I dont feel like it matters if they are specfically bi or pan or poly or any other label. I don't go into details like that for any other sub-group, not even pronouns and I included combinations and some common Neopronouns. I understand the importance of representation but my project has less than 50 people looking at it every day, Im not netflix or something. I'm one guy on the most LGBT blogging site with a big project and very little audience, I'm not showing people who wouldn't already know what pan is that pansexuality exists.

This project isn't that deep considering the characters in question aren't human/dont have human characteristics.(no it's not hazbin/helluva) Also ive never spoken about lgbt discourse or stated anything remotely close to it beyond the guides just passively having characters who are an LGBT identity. I've not even mentioned all the potentional orientations they could have so I'm not sure where/why this came up in the first place. The most politcial things ive said are calling out a creator in my fandom who outed themselves as a transphobe and mentioning im pro-palestine. That's it.

I mean this is pretty low stakes, I can just block these people and be done with it and this some seriously online shit but I just wanna check.

Am I being an asshole for just writing bi instead of specifying their mspec label because I have to produce characters quickly and I don't see enough of a difference to warrant a change/specification that would ultimately slow and clog an already stressful and complex project?

I dont think I am but idk lol

What are these acronyms?

[capyfroyo]

Nya slander makes my heart ache

:( IF I SEE ANOTHER PERSON HATING ON HER I WILL WXPLODE. Its so unnecessary.

Especially if it’s something dumb l”i hate jaya” “i dont like the ways shes written” “shes annoying”

Let me guess. She gets in the way of your ship. She (deservingly) criticizes your favorite character? “Shes annoying” and so many male characters with her traits are never criticized for it? Can you not handle a female character that speaks her mind?

PLEASE! ACCEPT THAT SHE IS IMPORTANT!! She doesnt need to prove herself!!

on a lighter topic. I have just been wondering why there is such little wlw art in the ninjago fandom compared to the rest. Yeah there aren’t so many girls, but people also find the most random and insignificant male characters to ship. Gender bent art of male characters exists and is cool, but if you want yuri cant you draw the canonically female characters?? Are people just bad at characterizing them in their heads? The amount of “ceo/literally/number one fan of cole/kai/zane/lloyd” accounts iv seen across so many platforms and not a single nya one. Claiming a character for only yourself is a bit odd and a whole different story, but in the context of this why is nobody “obsessing” over nya??

Generally, she is only appreciated in the context of a romantic relationship. ( coff coff jaya. btw it makes no sense to hate nya bcs of jaya when jay was the one who wanted them to get together???)

Idk this all just confuses me. Nya slander chips my soul away and i dont trust anyone who hates her and cant justify it.

[cakesmelons]

idk if your still gonna answer asks about the situation but as a fellow trans person i need to explain something that i'm noticing a lot of people are not understanding (don't worry this isnt at you or anyone upset with cal) i'm seeing quite a few people go "she's sticking to her beliefs and being respectful! she's not being transphobic so what's the big deal!?" and i genuinely want the people saying this to read this post and take into consideration on why this doesn't make the situation any better her belief is a very outdated and also dangerous one because believing that there can only be a male and a female invalidates so many people (trans, enby, non-binary, intersex etc) and those beliefs can cause actual harm to people to the point of literal hate crimes, i'm sorry but you guys shouldn't give her a pat on the back for "sticking to her beliefs" because her beliefs are very, very harmful and i've even seen other christens disagree with her and try to explain to her why this is bad

secondly; there's also how she called trans people a label and used the term in quotation marks, we are not a label we are living breathing human beings who want to be happy with ourselves and have a right to exists thirdly and there's the elephant in the room... the twitter likes and follows, it's proven many times that cal has liked straight up horrible transphobic and homophobic tweets and even follows people like matt walsh who want lgbtq+ people dead, if anyone defending her didn't know about the twitter stuff then that's fine but if you did and still defend her then it's clear you guys are beyond help closing statement: the reason why people are very upset with cal is that she lied to so many trans people in the community with a cut and dry example of being two-faced, you simply cannot say you respect trans people and interact with them while also going out of your way to have a low-key transphobic belief, liking transphobic stuff and following transphobic people especially when undertale and deltarune cannonicly have lgbtq+ character (cal even drawing said lgbtq+ characters like undyne for example which i find rich since i've heard she doesn't like mlm and wlw ships) and the community having SO MUCH lgbtq+ people this isn't a "lets agree to disagree" situation, this isn't drama either, this is a very serious situation also i've seen people go "she hasn't said any hate in the past!" as an defense, sorry but that doesn't change anything... i think it just makes the fact that she fooled everyone worse anyway sorry for this lengthy asks, i'm too scared to make a post but also i've been very upset about the situation and wanted to get my thoughts out because the way people are defending her without understanding why this is actually very bad is making me facepalm so hard sincerely, a very emotional trans man

I really don't have anything to add. This is a pretty good summary of this whole thing.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Propaganda:

For Orufrey: "They're tragic wlw who have devoted their lives to each other since they were kids. They live together, they cook together, they're raising four girls together and they're doing the best they can. Olruggio would do anything for Qifrey if Qifrey would just Let Him 😭 but Qifrey is dead-set on protecting Olruggio and keeping him safe and in the dark no matter what it costs... i cant 😭..."

"Man I don't know they just have the vibes. They have toxic yuri energy but they are two grown men. They've known each other since their apprentice days and have stuck together ever since. Qifrey's main magic type was something he took up because Olruggio proposed that he learned to control the water he feared. They live together away from most of society with Qifrey's four apprentices, living the sapphic cottagecore (ateliercore???) dream. Qifrey, due to the fact that his eyesight is very much failing, something which is very problematic when it comes to witches, who need their eyesight more than most, is getting very desperate to get all he lost to the Brimhats, the witches who took one of his eyes and his memories, and Olruggio ends up noticing this pursuit and is implied to have done this more than once. Qifrey does not want Olruggio to know about both his failing eyesight and his goals, so he ends up completely wiping Olruggio's memory of those things, and laments that Olruggio is a kind person, and one who would most likely forgive him again, but also one who would try to save him, even when he didn't want to be saved. He also apologized right up until the moment Olruggio's memories of his secret were gone. In general I think chapter 40 is the somewhat toxic guy yuri chapter ever. I'm very tired so I do not know how to explain any of this, I just thought "wow Orufrey reminds me of this one poll I saw on Tumblr" and then spent three days straight hunting for your blog before completely forgetting my reasoning for Orufrey being yuri right before I submitted this."

For Joongdok: "Well first of all Yoo Joonghyuk has a whole arc that is transfem coded as hell (has a power/technique that can technically only be used by women but somehow he can also use it, for a time he even turns into a woman to wield it and it's. Actually just let me get the quote "The ines of the face had changed but it was clearly Yoo Joonghyuk. No, it was even more than before.") that just kinda happens,, and doesn't get brought up again but anyway. Second of all just look at them. You see the vision. Also a bonus observation is that these two often get shipped in a poly ship with Han Sooyoung and whenever I see people make a "regular couple, yaoi couple, yuri couple, I see no difference love is love" meme with them the combination of which pair among these three is which of the categories is always different"

Note: This submission also mentions Han Sooyoung, but I decided to count this polyship submission as guy yuri as well.

"They love each other, they pretend they don't care for each other but all their actions prove they care too much, if you remove someone from the trio then the resulting duo is extremely dysfunctional, as evidenced by more than a million words of canon. Is it technically guy yuri? Well, Han Sooyoung is a woman, but in a way she's one of the guys. Kim Dokja and Yoo Joonghyuk are men, but the text heavily hints that Yoo Joonghyuk is a trans woman who's just too busy and stressed out to transition yet, and Kim Dokja has just never thought about his own gender a single day in his life. They made the world for each other, they went back in time countless times and waged countless wars for each other, they wrote and read and lived a story, their story, for each other and that's what saved them all. The way Han Sooyoung writes Yoo Joonghyuk's story to save Kim Dokja and loses herself in the process, the way Yoo Joonghyuk voluntarily lives the story to the point of losing himself too and even forgetting why he originally decided to do it, the way Kim Dokja read Han Sooyoung's story which was Yoo Joonghyuk's life and that's how he found himself, they all took so much from each other and gave so much of themselves to each other, this is all very yuri."

"they're so yuri you have no idea. they have every staple of a yuri ship. unwavering devotion. waiting dozens or thousands of years for each other. dooming themselves and the world for each other. so much yearning. i also see them genderbent a lot (including inn canon in the case of yjh) and they're right both of these people are women. i genuinely can't even see them strictly as men at this point they're just yjh and kdj and they are yuri do you understand."

"they're so yuri. the abscense of yuri is the presence of yuri etc etc. these two guys are all ABOUT abscenses. also one of them is a part time woman. the other guy is a guy but like in the same way a square is a rectangle. anyway they're so guyyuri to me. bonus points also because they have a mutual girlfriend and when she's present they're girlyaoi but that's not relevant to this specifically"