#why are they so hannigram coded

[reingkings]

Gi-hun can’t hold grudges, and what that means for Inhun/457.

I was thinking of this the other day. I myself don’t consider myself to be the type of person who holds grudges, but looking at Gi-hun I feel like he puts me to shame.

Disclaimer: I don’t hate the following characters this is just an analysis.

Example A: Sae-byeok. We all love her in the fandom, but if you think about it– Gi-hun only knew her a couple of days. The first time they met, she stole from him causing him a lot of trouble. When they met again, she didn’t even apologize and was generally rude. And yet, Gi-him was willing to put his life on the line to defend her from 101. And then, he was willing to fight Sang-woo for her. He goes on to take care of her brother for her.

Example B: Speaking of Sang-woo, he betrayed Gi-hun pretty early on during dalgona. I think to some extent Gi-hun knew this but he still let it go. He only got angry when Sang-woo pushed the other player during the bridge game, then with Sae-byeok. And yet, even in the end when Sang-woo tried to kill him (and stabbed him through the hand) and he needed the money for his mother’s treatment. But he was willing to leave the money so they could both leave alive.

Example C: The loan shark. Dude literally beat him up, humiliated him, and made him sign an agreement to sell his organs. And yet, in season 2, Gi-huh is willing to team up with them and pay them to help find the Salesman.

Example D: Jung-bae. Jung-bae is definitely another favorite, and I think we definitely have a bias towards him, but objectively he was not the greatest friend. For one, he was the one who introduced Gi-hun to horse racing, precipitating Gi-hub’s money troubles. When Gi-hun needed his help, he also didn’t lend Gi-hun money for his mother’s treatment (I don’t think he necessarily was to blame for her death, but it is a huge disappointment). They fell out of contact and reunited in the game, where he betrayed Gi-hun again by voting O. This is particularly cold-hearted when you think about the fact that the money pool would only only climb if more players die the next game. That’s what the O’s bank on. Yet, Gi-hun was never able to stay angry, and trusted him to the very end.

It kind of shows that Gi-hun can’t really distinguish from good or bad, and he is uniquely soft-hearted. If someone kicked while he was down, he would probably apologize.

To someone like In-ho, who pretty much seems to be the opposite of Gi-hun in every possible way, I think this kind of attitude makes him angry. But I think at the same time it’s what causes his obsession. In a self-indulgent evil world with bored rich people, organ traffickers, and cannibals (probably) — a person like Gi-hun is an impossibility.

Therefore, in order to satisfy his curiosity, In-ho has to test the boundaries of Gi-hun’s humanity. He’s willing to indulge Gi-hun without letting him escape. (For example, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Salesman was at the airport when Gi-hun was ready to leave for America. This has In-ho written all over it). He lets Gi-hun join the games, but he won’t let him keep the tracker. He lets the players vote each round, but ensures the X’s are never the majority. He lets Gi-hun stage a rebellion, but won’t let him succeed.

And yet, In-ho would rather let Gi-hun think he died than reveal to Gi-hun that he is the Frontman – arguably something that would hurt him even more.

Is this subconsciously a way out that he’s leaving himself? He knows Gi-hun could forgive him being a coward, because Gi-hun is capable of forgiving anything.

Or is it something worse. I think if you meet someone that can forgive anything, then the most special existence that person — isn’t it the one person they are capable of hating?

[puppydoggraham]

(source for poem: two-bees-poetry)

[begun-to-blur]

what is it about hannibal that gets such a death grip over all of us... like yes i adore the show, yes every time i watch it i notice something new, yes there's a million beautiful interpretations ... but that doesn't really explain why it comes up in my mind multiple times daily. everything can and will be a hannibal reference.

[lizzwill]

I find myself thinking about an unstable dog enthusiast and his murderer boyfriend way too often

[ineffably-graham]

why is abo so much more prominent in hannigram fics than any other ship or fandom i've even seen

what is it about these two?

[goingmadss]

will be like:

[lonlonranching]

yeah iwtv rocks if youre wondering

[batcels]

why are they so hannigram coded...

"I let you know me, see me. I gave you a rare gift, but you didn't want it."

[graythursday]

why are they so hannigram coded here

[necrotic-nephilim]

what are your favourite batcest ships and why?

AAA i love this question so much. i'm going to limit myself to a top five, because otherwise, i'd just end up listing all of them. the true joy of batcest is they're all so good for such different reasons and there are so many unique dynamics you can explore.

JayTim - it's funny bc, before i started this blog, i don't know if i would've put these two losers as my number one. but because i've done so much deep diving into their dynamic and i write them the most, i think it'd be a disservice for them to be anything *but* number one. their canon dynamic is just. so fun to play with. i truly love all of their interactions, particularly pre-Flashpoint. the concepts of Tim holding such contempt for Jason while Jason is weirdly obsessed with Tim. i'm a fan of Hannibal and Killing Eve and well. if this isn't a Hannigram-coded ship idk *what* is. i like ships where love and hate co-exist and there's no real "happily ever after", just fucked up co-existing, where they crawl back to each other like a bad habit and really, this ship is that so perfectly. the themes of jealousy in the Robin mantle. Tim wearing Jason's Red Robin suit to punish himself. i will likely never shut up about them. even in the New-52, there's such a substance to them, though the dynamic is wildly different. they will always be so weirdly dependent on each other's existence. i love them.

BruDick - you can't outdo the doer, i fear. i think i like BruDick mostly for the history of it, yk. there's genuinely *so much* queer history seeped into the homoeroticism of Batman and Robin, these two have been a symbol for queer people for decades. but the ship itself has so many dynamics i love. problematic age gap, "are we family or lovers", "i can't be in a room alone with you without getting into a screaming match but if you called i drop everything for you". all of it. i especially favor 80s/90s BruDick when they were in their divorce era just because it's so messy. Dick has canonically said he would die for Bruce, even during their arguments. no matter what, these two will always be single-mindedly devoted to each other. there will be other Robins, but none of them will compare to Dick Grayson, for Bruce. it's a unique and complicated bond that has endless layers to peel back. they always crawl back to each other bc no one else will match their level of intensity.

DamiTim - years and years ago, when i was a teen trying to people-please with how i existed in fandom, i used to insist i didn't like batcest and found it icky and gross. but there was one DamiTim fic that was my exception. that fic was my fucking roman empire. i reread it like once a year even though it's not completed and likely never will be i do not care. so now that i've killed the morality police in my head and i let myself ship what i actually want to ship, this ship holds a top place in my heart just bc of that fic alone. but in general i do fucking love their dynamic. similar to JayTim there's just so much mutual hatred in these two that has endless potential. Damian's insistence to not see Tim as a Wayne and as a legitimate brother/heir to Bruce is something you can play a lot if you give Damian an angry, fucked up crush on Tim he doesn't want to admit to. they have so many reasons to dislike each other, so to try to get them to slowly fall in love is a fun challenge. they either have a long complicated forgiveness arc and end up a happy married couple or they are the couple that tries to kill each other once a week. no in-between.

JeanTim - there's like. one person here on tumblr who goes as hard for this ship as i do and truly god bless them bc they feed me. Jean-Paul is too underrated in the batcest scene. once i reread Knightfall, i will have to help popular this tag on ao3. i enjoy both a very fucked up version of this ship during the peak of the Knightfall arc, where Jean-Paul is deep in his murder Batman era and Tim is trying to stop him to no real avail, but i *also* think there's so much you can do with the ship afterwards, where Jean-Paul is trying to make up for what he's done and be a better person and better hero. they're the peak Batman/Robin ship, to me. they truly care about each other, but have a very complicated/bloody history and i just. man i love it so dearly. i've been meaning to write a fic where Jean-Paul goes to Tim post the Sword of Azrael (2022) arc to properly discuss and apologize for all his actions in Knightfall for his personal healing and they end up fucking. it could be sweet and cute or kinky fun bc what is the joy of a character with that much Catholic guilt if you don't give them a weird religious kink.

BruCarrie - The Dark Knight Returns got me into comics and i will defend it till the day i die. Carrie Kelley can be pried from my cold dead hands. i just really love these two? Carrie took one look at that cranky old bastard and decided she was his problem. and Bruce is at a stage where he should be very averse to the idea of having a Robin, he knows it's a bad idea. but he just. accepts her anyway. idk how to explain their dynamic other than she plunks herself in his lap and stitches up his wounds while telling him he's an idiot and he lets her even if he's grumbling about it. they have the biggest age gap of any Batman/Robin ship and for that, they should get like. a dead dove gold star no matter how rare the pair is.

also honorable mention goes to BruTim, because *god* do i love the concept of Tim offering himself up to Bruce as Robin in every way, knowing that there are likely sexual/romantic implications to being Robin. it's one of my favorite flavors of batcest to exist. i don't view them as a "happily ever after" ship, because Bruce will always go back home to Dick, but it's a fun lil dead dove moment.

[mister-tom-a-dildo-lover]

Just a random thought I had.

I've been spending a lot of time recently going over what I know about myself and my behaviors and the way I have existed my entire life, and have been slowly coming to terms with the fact that I probably have undiagnosed Autism(and ADHD) and I will never have the money to get a proper diagnosis for this because being able to get to just a regular doctor is a luxury that I do not have.

As such, I have been putting all of my interests into perspective and thinking more clearly about the characters I like in the pieces of fiction I like and trying to draw similarities between them and how they behave, compared to me and how I behave.

This brought me to Tom Riddle, clearly. I've always been big into HP and it's influenced my fandom journey heavily. I've gotten into fandoms just because someone wrote a crossover with Harry Potter in their ship.

So, with that in mind, what is similar between me and Tom Riddle?

The special interests.

The obsession with collecting unique items.

The intense hyperfixation on his interests that causes him to monologue for ages about them in relation to himself.

Being exceptional at hiding how he really feels behind a mask to trick people into thinking he's normal like them.

Learning the right words to say to get by even if he thinks they're foolish or nonsensical.

Struggling with understanding emotions either from himself or others, and misconstruing what others are feeling based on his limited understanding.

Making his whole personality revolve around the Thing he's good at(Dark Magic).

Having no tolerance for other people because they cannot keep up with him.

Now that I am forced to come to terms with these things about myself, and even more things, thanks to a lot of help from others, I can't not review everything I'd ever shown interest in. Like, all of my favorite characters end up falling along the lines of depressed character, anxious character, or Autism-coded character. Or all 3 in a character. And I have all these issues and technically should be medicated for some but can't afford it.

And the thing is, I have considered similar characters to Tom, wondering if I'm projecting onto his type of character.

I like Hannibal, the TV show. My favorite character is Will Graham. And would you happen to know that he is depressed, anxious, and very Autism-coded? But the character in Hannibal, that Tom is most like, is actually Hannibal himself. And the ship for Hannigram feels very similar at times to the Harrymort ship, which is why a lot of people ship both.

But if I was to line Tom up beside Hannibal and consider what I know about both of them in relation to my undiagnosed Autism, Tom is the one who feels like he could be Autistic. Hannibal does not. Even with his special interests and masking and monologuing, and all their similarities on the Potentially Autistic List, Hannibal doesn't give me the same vibe. Will does, but not Hannibal.

So, I don't think this is me forcing the 'misunderstood Autistic villain trope' onto Tom. I think it's just that I've gained a new perspective on myself, and it has forced me to reevaluate everything I know about who I am and what I like and what draws me to those things in the first place.

It's kind of like how I liked Severus Snape as a character, long before I realized that I was depressed and that he was also depressed(I was 10 when I started the HP books). Like, the day I finally realized that I had depression(I was 17) and that wanting to kill myself and trying to are actually suicidal issues that I need help for, I thought of Snape. And a lot of things clicked.

Gaining a new perspective on yourself gives you new perspectives on everything else.

I am interested in pursuing these new thoughts in fanfic form in the future, ngl. And my reads of Tom going forward are going to be a lot more nuanced.

[degenderates]

I don’t even Go Here im just lurking the waltjesse tag and seeing your takes on them just. yes. will saying to Hannibal that he can’t have anything in his life that isn’t him and Bedellia saying to Will “we’ve both been his bride” is so waltjesse coded waltjesse is just. insanely more Freudian and toxic.

the waltjesse "i am turning down you. i want nothing to do with you. ever since i met you, everything i have ever cared about is gone. ruined, turned to shit, ever since i hooked up with the great heisenberg" vs. the hannigram "i'm not gonna miss you. i'm not gonna find you. i'm not going to look for you. i don't want to know where you are or what you do. i don't to think about you anymore"

and the waltjesse "i have never been more alone. i have nothing! no one! all right, it's all gone, get it? no, no, no, why? why would you get it? why would even care as long as you get what you want?" versus the hannigram "i bond with abigail, you take her away. i bond with barely more than the idea of a child, you take it away. you saw to it that i alienated alana, alienated jack. you don't want me to have anything in my life that's not you...every moment of cogent thought under your psychiatric care is a personal victory."

and the crazy ass thing is that even in these dialogue comparisons you can see the differences in age between jesse and will...hannibal might have a slight age bump on will, but they're two fully middle-aged men...meanwhile the gap in age between the 25 and 50 of jesse and walt is an ocean of difference, and you can tell in the way jesse speaks. even in this one scene that i've borrowed dialogue from where he realizes he's being manipulated is desperate, the pleading of a child, not the coherent, smart, analysis of will. it makes me ill

[puppydoggraham]

Hannibal and Will on the reality show Traitors except when people get ‘murdered’ in the show, Hannibal (who is a traitor) actually kills them and they turn up dead. Will starting as a faithful and Hannibal eventually tries to recruit him to be a traitor

[fannibalcascade]

have you seen the panel , didn’t it feel very weird , I mean the vibe was off

Yeah, we caught it yesterday. Surprisingly, it was pretty early, so only I and @melancholymournia were wide awake. We didn't see a new season announcement coming at all. We think that chapter is closed. The atmosphere between Hugh and Mads felt right, they are buddies and they met after a long time but we were really curious about the questions being asked and how they'd answer them.

We held onto our skepticism, given it was a reunion after a decade, knowing any hint about the relationship would stir up the fandom and potentially bring backlash our way for our ongoing doubts. But here's the kicker: not a peep about Hannigram, and the whole vibe felt like a blast from 2013- especially how they still can’t mention the relationship, it’s like they are still in the bro-code era and maybe they are .

Despite Mads' captain-of-the-ship reputation, even his answers were ambiguous and not very convincing about the future of Hannigram, And a little question for the shippers: ever find it odd your beloved pairing consistently skirts around the series' core theme, despite claiming it's integral? If so, why the silence? Not to rain on your parade, but given your Hannigram fantasies, it seems the cast's vision isn't quite in sync. Now, we're dead certain the relationship wasn't going anywhere ,a 'Murder Husbands' season was just wishful thinking.

[i-bit-the-dust-it-was-yummy]

YOU KNOW WHAT IM DONE WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT HOW LOVECATS IS SO HANNIGRAM CODED

Sorry no it’s not hannigram coded it IS hannigram

JUST LISTEN TO IT, IT REPRESENTS THEIR RELATIONSHIP IN EVERY SEASON WHY DOES NOBODY TALK ABOUT IT

[childofwonder]

I’m having a problem again. /srs /hj

I cannot understand Will’s character motivation for all of season 3.

I’m trying to comprehend it, I really am.

But like. Do you want to kill this man or do you want to run away with him?! The whole season I’m waiting and waiting for this man to kill Hannibal or run away with him and he DOES NEITHER.

Like he changes his mind every other second.

I HATE THIS SHOW. /not srs

FUCK YOU BRYAN FULLER /hj

I know the answer is both. He wants to kill him and run away with him, he would run away to prevent Hannibal’s death from someone else and then kill him himself. But then he’s also ready to watch the dragon kill Hannibal. WHICH DOESNT WORK BECAUSE THEN HE IMMEDIATELY GOES AND ATTACKS THE DRAGON TO SAVE HANNIBAL. AND LIKE WHILE THEY ARE ON THE RUN POST FALL ARE THEY STILL IN THIS LIMBO OF TRYING TO KILL EACH OTHER?! I DONT GET IT

I want to get it. I really want to get it. But it just doesn’t make sense. Not saying that Will can’t feel both ways about Hannibal but he really isn’t clear on it with himself or the audience. (THIS IS THE POINT RIGHT?!??! THATS HE DOESNT KNOW HOW HE FEELS???) PLEASE IM SO FUCKING CONFUSED. sometimes the fandom are really singular with Will like he only has one motivation. Usually people are like “he loves him, he doesn’t want to kill him.” BUT HE DOES WANT TO KILL HIM. FOR TWO SEASONS. LIKE YALL ARE MISSING IT OR IM DUMB? I CANT UNDERSTAND.

All this to say that I’m going to rewatch season two and three again.

But seriously. Will wants to kill him but can’t go through with it, right?? That’s the point. OR ELSE WHY ARE WE HERE? I refuse to misunderstand this show. I remember I was so clear about it when I first watched it and now it’s all murky in my mind. Eek

I don’t usually post these blog posts cuz I know they can be a little inflammatory. but whateva

I just want to understand the writing of season three better and this is how my thought process works.

Anyways, when I finish reading Red Dragon it’s over for you bitches (I’m going to be making so many blog posts comparing the show to the book. FRANCIS WILL BE A REALLY BIG FOCUS OF MINE. and Will, and Molly) (and Willy)

Sorry I just keep yapping at you, have a song suggestion for compensation (ITS SO HANNIGRAM CODED)