#while we’re on the topic of queer headcanons:

[occasionallycoinpin]

occasionally coinpin 76

happy pride month, have a meme that’s been done to death and back

[dathen]

The Starecrossed discord is now up and running!

This is for fans of the Childermass/Segundus ship from Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. Members 18+ are welcome, so please confirm that you’re 18 or older when you DM.

I may be 10 (tv show) or 20 (book) years late to the party but these two aren't leaving me alone. "Dathen you really don't need to create a discord server for everything you get obsessed with" okay but consider: I had two (2) enablers

Please check out the rules below, and shoot me a message if you'd like an invite!

Racism, fatphobia, transphobia, aphobia, identity policing, etc. will not be tolerated. This is an inclusionist, queer-supportive space.

Be respectful to each other. We’re all here to have fun and together, but that will all hinge on how we treat each other! Please be respectful of others' boundaries, ideas, and preferences. Avoid cutting people off to change the subject mid-conversation. Keep in mind that we have members who are ESL, neurodivergent, etc, and may not be on the same page re: tone and jokes. All members are expected to generally interact on an adult level and take responsibility for their behavior.

Don't police or nitpick others' ideas. Don't insist others conform to your headcanons/popular fanon. Additionally, if an AU, headcanon, etc doesn't interest you, just avoid it rather than putting it down. While people may ask if an idea works in the time period, with canon, etc., avoid shutting it down even if you feel it doesn't.

Use spoiler cuts for commonly triggering content. Put a warning in parenthesis before the cut. For example, an in-depth discussion about how period-typical homophobia may affect the characters should be spoilered: “(homophobia) [[spoilered text]].” To add spoilers on Discord, put a double "|" on either side of the text.

NSFW content is limited to ⁠private-chambers-nsfw Spoiler cuts with a (nsfw) note are required outside the channel, though you may be asked to move to ⁠private-chambers-nsfw for more than a brief mention.

No dragging in outside drama. This includes from other fandoms, other discords, or venting about fans outside the server. We also ask that discourse topics not be brought up in the server.

Please avoid sharing sensitive private information. Examples: specifics about where you live, mental health issues, etc. Please keep in mind that this is a semi-public server that includes strangers.

[something-about-sunflowers]

No tags and a read-more cause I’m complaining about some dumb shit

Does it need to go into the tag? I made a similar post (albeit with a different flavor) about taking issue with people assuming gender interpretations of characters a while back but I also fully acknowledged that it was a ‘me’ problem and kept it out of the tags. AND kept it under a read-more since it was a long post (handy if you’re gonna go for the tl;dr AND the full long explanation in the same post, put the long bit under a read-more please).

Like. Okay, yeah, its shitty that people are tagging you with things that are giving you dysphoria, that’s not cool, and maybe we could get better about tagging it (though that idea does squick me a bit considering its touching a little on ‘can you tag [a literal queer identity] because that triggers me’ which. not like. super great?) but bringing it to the tag to complain about is just gonna make those of us that DO find gender euphoria in seeing Izzy as trans masc feel shitty about it.

Like, maybe just try blocking those of us who post about it? That’s what I do with trans fem Ed people, cause its not their problem its mine.

Also there’s nothing wrong with Con playing Izzy when trans Izzy is a HEADCANON. Its not canon, none of us are saying its canon, Con isn’t saying its canon when he shows his support for it. There’s no issue with him playing a trans man on tv because he ISN’T playing a trans man on tv.

Nobody IS saying every trans man is into a trans masc Izzy. We make jokes about how WE forget he’s cis because WE trans him so often but those jokes literally hinge on us knowing that OTHER people don’t always headcanon him as trans? You could have made this post 3000% less confrontational by just asking people not to tag you in those headcanons because it makes you dysphoric, all this extra stuff is just gonna make other people feel bad about how THEY identify with the character.

As for the whole uh. Wildly off-topic rant at the end there about menopause uh. Well.

1. While it might benefit trans dudes to look into how their body will change as they get older that’s not really something you go to fanfic for.

2. This is fanfic of a show where getting literally run-through on the left side of your body is a walk-off-able injury because ‘all the important bits are on the right’, nobody is really shooting for medical accuracy. We’re letting Roach chop titties off as a safe and sane form of top surgery. With a meat cleaver.

3. Fanfic is not sex ed. Fanfic is not sex ed. Fanfic is not sex ed. Its all well and good to say ‘I prefer the sex in my fic to be more realistic’ but not everybody wants that and not everybody enjoys that. Boat (lol) loads of lube is a fine thing to prefer/ask for but sometimes its just REALLY HOT if the pussy is 'making puddles’ all on its own accord.

[connan-l]

unafraid

Fandom: Ciconia: When They Cry

Rating: General Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Relationships: Sujatha/Rukhshana

Summary: Suparna’s training session is cancelled for the day because of a sudden storm, which Sujatha is absolutely not scared of, and that might or might not creates tensions with her girlfriend.

[Femslash February 2023 Day 3: Storm]

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Link on Archive of Our Own

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Notes: Hi here’s your annual Ciconia FemFeb fic from me! Yes you’ll get one until Ryukishi finally decide to release Phase 2. Anyway this is very late but it’s meant to be for Day 3: Storm, from those prompts.

I don’t know why, but at first I didn’t want to write any Sujatha/Rukhshana piece for FemFeb; not because I don’t like them but for some reason I really wanted to write a proper one-shot for them and not something based on a random prompt. But technically speaking they’re still one of the most obvious F/F ships of the VN so far, so I thought they were just the next obvious choice, especially given I’d already done Lingji/Aysha and Valentina/Maricarmen before. So yeah it’s just a small cute fluffy thing without a lot of substance.

Given it’s going to mark the third year since I’ve last read the VN I admit I forgot a lot of stuff about the characters, so I really don’t feel confident in how I characterized them here. Especially Rukhshana. (And I know it *seems* like Phase 1 implied she was a CPP as well like Miyao, but we don’t know much about that yet so I didn’t want to touch on the topic). So I hope they don’t feel too off.

Also, it’s a small detail in the fic but — if you’re like me and haven’t played the game in a while, I feel the need to mention that COU is the one country that has ‘traditional’ families; so I’m assuming Sujatha, Rukhshana and Andry probably have ‘normal’ parents like Lingji & co.

Now on a small caveat I have that made me hesitate while writing this fic: I realized that, obviously we don’t know anything about whether or not Sujatha is religious, but as she is from India and that we’re told the COU is very traditional, IF she is religious then she would probably follow one of the many Hinduism faiths; however, on the other hand, given Rukhshana is from Saudi Arabia and is clearly wearing a hijab, she has to be Muslim. Queerness aside, I know interfaith relationships can be a bit of touchy topic in Islam; some might tolerate it and others do not (one of my non-Muslim cousin dated a Muslim woman for three years, but he had to convert when they got married), and it would be especially so for a Saudi girl given ‘dating’ in the Western sense in general is frowned upon over there. Not sure how things would be in Ciconia’s futuristic, post-World War III universe, but it did seem to imply Saudi Arabia is still very traditional similarly to how it is in our world because of how they mention there were issues with Rukhshana, as a girl, joining the team while there was a boy in it. The VN is very scarce when it comes to giving details about the religious/cultural practices of the characters (hell even the hijabi girls are never actually called ‘Muslims’ in-universe), so I can’t say how pious Rukhshana must be or how important it would be for her to only get together with someone who’s Muslim. So the way I see it in this fic, is that she must probably be respectful of the faith and wouldn’t marry a non-Muslim person usually, but she can give herself some leeway if this is with someone she really loves (and that the other person can potentially convert)? (And well, Muslim communities exists in India too so I suppose you can headcanon Sujatha as such as well). I dunno, maybe I’m just overthinking about it; and of course like I said this is just a short fluff piece and not some exploration of any of these topics anyway lol, but I am not Muslim myself, so I’d understand if any actual Muslim people don’t like it or take issue with this.

All this aside, there’s no spoilers (except for like, the start of Phase 1 I guess) or content warnings except for the inevitable vague mentions of war/child soldiers.

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Sujatha was absolutely not scared.

She had sworn to herself, from a very young age, to never become a person who got scared.

Fear was only meant for the common people. Fear was for normal girls; ones who didn’t have any responsibility, who weren’t soldiers, who weren’t part of the elite of the COU India Aerial Augmented Infantry, leader of Suparna.

Sujatha was anything but a normal girl — had worked very, very hard to not be one; so it was only natural she wouldn’t be scared.

And, most of the time, she did a good job at suppressing the feeling, even when it threatened to bubble up at the surface in the pit of her stomach.

Right now, however, as she heard the news that their training for the day was going to be exceptionally canceled because of some weather turmoils, the wave of anxiety started to overwhelm her in a way she didn’t think she could easily appease.

“What a pain,” Andry declared, letting himself fall all over a nearby couch. “What are we supposed to do now? They warned us at the last minute, so it’s not like we can quickly make other plans.”

Rukhshana made a weak noise of agreement buried under her black hijab. “Maybe… maybe we could play a game together? Until noon, at least…”

“Guess so,” the boy replied, but he didn’t seem very enthusiastic at the prospect. Then again, Andry never seemed very enthusiastic about most things. Everything seemed to pass through him like water; which could be both a relief and frustrating, depending on the situation.

“What do you think, Sujatha?”

“Huh? U-Um…” Sujatha’s eyes darted towards the dark sky, full of threatening gray clouds, trying not to fidget. “S-Sure. Probably.”

At this, both Rukhshana and Andry stared at her as if she was a ghost. They exchanged a brief, skeptical look with each other, before the boy straightened up and arched an eyebrow in Suparna’s leader’s direction.

“You sure?”

Sujatha frowned, feeling as if she was missing something obvious or was left out of an inside joke between her two teammates. Which, unfortunately, happened often.

“Of course I’m sure,” she responded sharply. “Why wouldn’t I be?”

“W-Well…” Rukhi bit her lip, looking up at her hesitantly and wriggling her hands like she did whenever she felt unsure of herself. “It’s… not really like you to say something like this…”

“What?”

“Rukhi’s right,” Andry added. “Usually, you would’ve gone all ‘Who have time for games, you lazy scoundrels! If you only think about playing, we’ll end up the weakest of all Gauntlets Knights!’ and then Rukhi would have freaked out mentally over it, or something.”

Sujatha puffed out her chest in an irritated manner and glared at her teammate. “I do not sound like that.”

“But… you are acting weird, aren’t you?”

Rukhshana took a step towards her, and while Sujatha was about to snap back at her that she was imagining things, her mouth shut up instantly the moment she saw her eyes.

The other girl was looking at her with a concerned gaze, the one she took when she was genuinely worried about her; and instantly Sujatha felt herself softening against her will and guilt clogged up her throat. Had she really done that bad of a job to hide her anxiety?

“You’ve… been odd for a while now,” Rukhi continued. “And… it’s been worse since our training was officially canceled… I know you always think training is important, but… Is there… something else?”

Rukhshana stopped right in front of Sujatha, catching her off-guard, and her eyes staring straight into hers instantly pinned her into place. She gently reached out to her, her fingertips cupping her cheek in a tender, intimate gesture; and Sujatha flushed bright red, froze, then panicked.

“Th-There’s nothing else!” She exclaimed, snapping Rukhshana’s hand away and glaring at the other two teenagers. “But you’re right! You’d better find another way to exercise or study if you have nothing else better to do!”

She turned around before almost running away from the room; which still didn’t prevent her from hearing Andry snorting from behind and Rukhshana squeak and grumbling to herself ‘What’s this, she’s the one who said it was okay for us to play!’

Sujatha paid it no mind. She headed to her bedchambers, her face still feeling hot and her chest about to explode because of embarrassment.

She couldn’t believe how… open Rukhshana was with her in public, sometimes. Well, in private as well.

The two of them had been dating for about three months now, but everything still felt very new and surreal to her. No one knew, of course, with the exception of Andry — who had somehow grilled them only a week afterwards — and it did bring in some new challenges to navigate, but so far Sujatha didn’t regret it. She didn’t, but… she had to admit sometimes it felt a bit too… overwhelming, and she wasn’t always sure how to act towards Rukhi as a result (not that she knew how to handle her before, though).

She sighed, closing the door behind her, and let herself fell on her bed.

Rukhshana was going to be so angry for snapping at her like that, she knew. And maybe she deserved it, too. That… hadn’t been really fair from her, after all. She probably should go apologize before things get worse.

She might not look like it, but Rukhi was a pretty grudgeful person; and if she felt wronged, she was absolutely not going to let it slide. She could stop talking to Sujatha for months because of something like this — and the simple idea made Sujatha’s stomach turns into knots, even more so than it already was.

She knew she was the one who had to apologize, and that she had to do it now, but she couldn’t bring herself to get out of her bed.

The gray sky and future storm that loomed over outside seemed to have drained her entire energy. She wasn’t sure how long she stayed like that, but the moment she heard the ripple of the rain on her window’s glass she tensed, then hurriedly buried herself under the blanket, as if this could protect her from the foreseeing tempest.

Sujatha wasn’t scared — she just… didn’t like the rain. And gray skies and clouds. And the dark. And thunders.

And it was absolutely not because she was scared that when she was a child she would stay hidden that way under the blanket back in her hometown in Hanumangarh, and that she would spends hours praying to Indra that the sky could finally light up.

She definitely never came to her parents for comfort, because Sujatha wasn’t destined to be a normal girl and not-normal girls were never scared.

So she also definitely didn’t jump when she heard a timid little knock at her door.

“Uh… S-Sujatha…?”

The voice on the other side was barely audible, especially with her ears camouflaged by the blanket and the heavy sound of the rain that seemed to get more and more violent as the minutes passed by — but of course Sujatha still recognized her.

She’d recognized her girlfriend’s voice everywhere.

“R-Rukhi?”

She distinguished some grumbling from the door, which confirmed her visitor’s identity and at the same time furthered her confusion.

She’d never thought Rukhshana would ever come to see her first. After what had happened earlier, she would’ve been way too mad for that.

“Um… I… I wanted to… uh, check on you…” Rukhi’s voice let out hesitantly. “Can I… come in?”

Sujatha bit her lip. Her heart screamed Yes please, her mind yelled back God no. Sujatha wasn’t scared, but she still refused to let anyone see her… like that.

Even Rukhshana. Maybe especially Rukhshana.

“No,” she finally declared, with a voice a little too shaky.

There was a sigh. And then the door opened anyway.

Sujatha almost jumped off the bed.

“I just said no!”

“I know,” Rukhshana said, glaring at her. “But it was one of your ‘no’ that actually meant ‘yes, please, I need you horribly.’”

Her frame was hallowed of light from the corridor’s luminosity, and Sujatha could see she was still wearing her hijab, albeit another, more casual one along with a long, dark dress.

She clenched her jaw, glared at her girlfriend, flushed, and then threw the blanket over her head yet again. Damn her.

She couldn’t see her, but Sujatha was pretty sure Rukhi rolled her eyes at this. There was a few footsteps sounds, then the mattress moved, tilted under an additional new weight.

“So. Can I stay?”

“A bit too late for that now,” Sujatha mumbled, and the more this situation kept on the more she felt ridiculous. She acted just like a child — completely unbefitting of her.

“Yes.”

And then they fell into an awkward, deep-seated silence for what felt like an eternity.

“Why…” Sujatha started, succumbing to the discomforting tension, before hesitating. “Why are you here, anyway? I thought you wouldn’t…”

“Talk to you for a while? Yes. I didn’t want to. But…” She sighed. “Andry convinced me it was better to not be stubborn, for once.”

That made sense. Andry seemed to be the only other person Rukhshana actually genuinely listened to.

“But he agreed you owe me an apology.”

Well, she supposed that was true. All three of them were on the same page, for once.

“…I’m sorry… for snapping at you… It wasn’t your fault.”

“That’s fine. I forgive you. But… you’ll have to tell me why you did it.” Of course, only silence met her and Rukhi grumbled. “Come on. Why are you acting like this since this morning? What’s going on? You know you can talk to me.”

And Sujatha knew she could. She knew. She just wasn’t…

Well. She wasn’t used to it. Talk, and be open, and be… be scared. That wasn’t a thing she’d been taught. Not even to someone she, apparently, loved.

Sujatha buried her face into her knees, debating what to do with this overflow of contradictory feelings, when it seemed the sky decided to answer for her.

A booming, deafening thunder ripped the room apart, bathing the place in a wide splash of white light. Sujatha then lost all self-control and dignity and actually screamed, her heart stopping and her breath getting caught in her throat. A couple of smaller, other thunders outside left her a trembling, weeping mess under the blanket, rolled into a ball as if she was hoping to disappear.

For a while, the room stayed quiet except for the sound of the rain, but then finally Rukhi raised a small, doubtful voice:

“W-Wait… Could it be… that you’re scared of the thunder?”

Sujatha made no attempt to try to answer this. She didn’t think Rukhi needed and answer, anyway, as even a three years old could have come up with one.

And then the next second she was greeted with loud, unadulterated laughters.

“Oh no! That’s what this was all about! You’re scared of the thunder!”

“D-Don’t laugh! I’m not—”

Sujatha flushed red as she tried to disentangle herself from the blanket to glare at the other girl; but then another thunder resonated behind her, and she shrieked. Rukhshana gave her a smug look, raising an eyebrow.

And stared.

“…F-Fine,” Sujatha admitted, before hiding her head into her knees. “Maybe… Maybe I’m…”

She felt like someone was tearing out her teeth one by one, having to make such a statement. It would have probably hurt less if it had actually been the case.

Vulnerability was the worst, most humiliating thing in the world. She would rather die than appear weak to anyone, least of all Rukhshana.

Least of all Rukhshana, but…

But, maybe, at the same time, if she had to choose just one person who could see this side of her… then Rukhshana would be the one.

“Maybe… I am… a little scared…”

She wasn’t sure what to expect from her teammate, friend, lover. Maybe some teasing mockery and more laughters; that sounded like something Rukhshana would do, because she sure loved to tease her.

Instead, she felt something warm and soft on her back; a hand, she quickly realized, and when she raised her head, she was meet by a pair of soft, kind violet eyes that shined in the dim room.

“You are so ridiculous,” Rukhi said, but there was only fondness in her voice for once. “You know you got me and Andry actually worried here, right? If it was just about something so silly then you could’ve just told us. We’re your comrades.”

Of course she couldn’t have just told them, and of course it wasn’t just something silly; no matter how ‘ridiculous’ it seemed, it was still a weakness to Sujatha, and she could never let any weakness be seen to anyone. Well, except for now, it seemed.

“We’re all afraid of something. What’s the point of being friends if we can’t rely on each other to parry our weaknesses?”

Sujatha didn’t feel like fighting on the topic, so she just looked away, escaping Rukhi’s dark, deep eyes. Maybe the other girl knew it was a pointless argument to have at the moment, because she just shook her head before sitting right next to her girlfriend, their shoulders brushing. She pulled the blanket and covered up both of their heads with it.

When Sujatha looked at Rukhshana again, her face was only inches away from her own, her breath on her lips.

“Don’t be scared,” Rukhi said, smiling. “I’ll stay with you for the entirety of the storm. Okay?”

Rukhi extended her hand toward Sujatha, and while the former muttered a small ‘Idiot,’ she grasped it without a second thought. Rukhshana then leaned in and pressed her lips to hers, giving a gentle, comforting kiss as she was oft to do.

Sujatha let herself melt into her lover’s embrace, hiding her head into the corner of her shoulder, retracting into her arms every time a thunder shattered their peace.

And here, hidden under the blanket, away from the storm and from the whole world with only Rukhshana’s heartbeat and warmth for company, she didn’t feel so scared anymore.

[myromanempireee]

The Outsiders historical aspects rant

As a history buff myself, you know what this fandom doesn’t talk about enough?

The fact that this is THE SIXTIES.

This fandom just ignores the racial discrimination, religious discrimination, sexual discrimination, even gender-based discrimination that is EXTREMELY prominent in Tulsa Oklahoma specifically.

Like we’re really glossing over the fact that Tulsa ESPECIALLY was very hyper religious, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, etc. back then.

Like… I personally headcannon some characters to be mixed white + SMTH else, (For example I always head cannoned Johnny as Italian and indigenous Mexican/Central American) plus some as queer

But you all gloss over the implications of it all

Like what do you mean you wrote a Fanfiction of Curly + Pony (A ship I personally love myself) and just…Had them openly be gay? That doesn’t make sense.

And they don’t even depict how they wouldn’t tell anyone. Not even their siblings or close friends because they wouldn’t know who to trust and probably wouldn’t say it aloud in general anyways. And them getting together would be HIGHLY complicated, because for one, Curly Shepard is CURLY FUCKING SHEPARD, but even without him being part of the ship, there’d be a lot of internalized homophobia, denial of feelings, obvious fear of even looking at the other wrongly, etc.

If they ever did somehow suck it up and get together it wouldn’t be some like…Big confession. It’d be some accidental kiss when they’re either drunk or in the moment and then they realize and it’s kind of an “Oh shit” moment. When they realize the other is okay with it it’d kind of be like…They don’t talk about it, and hide it even from themselves, but it just keeps happening because they know it’s welcome.

The relationship probably would be far from healthy either because of the social stigmas and internalized homophobia and just so many different influences.

And don’t get me started on some other things…

I read a fic a long time ago where not only was Purly the main ship, but Curly himself was fully black. And they were open about it.

In Tulsa.

In the sixties.

Not only was it a gay relationship but it was an interracial relationship, and they glossed over the historical inaccuracies completely?

Im pretty sure it’s taken down now because I can’t find it but it still HAUNTS ME.

Like, I get it, you don’t want the homophobia aspect but like…You call the fic canon compliant and not an AU, yet you take this fic that’s fiction, sure, but set in a REAL timeline with REAL historical influences that’s supposed to be set realistically in the 60s, specifically in TULSA. with nothing added or taken away, and you just…Remove all the historical influences? Make it make sense.

Im not saying you need to have them hurling slurs at one another, and I get you may not be comfortable with those topics for many reasons but like… If you can’t tackle those things maybe…Don’t put yourself in a position where you’d be expected to?

Even if it’s something as slight as Purly being entirely secret and them having a hard time getting together and accepting their sexuality

It tackles it tactfully without them having to truly touch on homophobia, adds a lot of nuance to their characters, storylines, relationship, etc. and just all in all it adds a lot to the story while keeping it accurate

But yeah, that’s my little rant. I tried to keep it short and sweet but this has been bugging me

Also I hate when people headcannon the main cast as certain things as if that wouldn’t have DRASTICALLY impacted the events in the book

Even if saying like “Oh the Curtis brothers are Black/Asian/Hispanic”…Like, that changes everything? But you don’t want it to? But you want it to still classify as entirely complying with the canon universe?

I don’t mind the headcanon itself but you’ve gotta admit that things would have been DRASTICALLY different for the household and even the gang if they were really black

Hell, the gang probably wouldn’t be a thing unless the rest were suddenly POC too, which creates another domino effect because let’s be real here Dally would’ve died pre-canon and if he didn’t that’s a whole other thing

Plus Soda + Sandy or Steve + Evie wouldn’t have happened which would remove certain storylines

Then Cherry and Pony wouldn’t have talked

Though that would’ve added more layers to Bob going after them

It just creates a lot of domino effects people either don’t consider or don’t want to tackle

I get Fanfiction bends the source material slightly but i dunno, this is still a pet peeve of mine

[blue-eye-samurai]

Thank you @sitephi and @dicapiito for speaking up about this topic.

I completely agree — at first glance it doesn’t feel wrong at all. Headcanons can be fun and it’s normal for different people to interpret fictional media in different ways. However, it stops being fun and starts getting problematic when certain people begin to act like their personal interpretations MUST be accepted as irrefutable facts.

We see white queers doing this ALL THE TIME with non white characters who are marginalized in other ways. They are not used to consuming media that is not centered around them and their lived experiences, so they immediately start projecting themselves onto those characters because otherwise they can’t relate to the narrative of the story.

It’s really frustrating how so many people think it’s okay to discount Mizu as woman when she gives us (the audience) a very clear and valid perspective of what it’s like to be marginalized as a cishet woman of color. It’s upsetting how so many white minorities continue to act entitled to stories that are not about them and were not created for them in the first place.

I mean, even the show’s writers knew this would happen. They knew that the audience would watch the first episode and assume that Mizu is either A) a cishet man, B) a transman or nonbinary person or C) a butch lesbian. They knew people were going to think this way because “nobody this cool could ever be a cishet woman”. And then they accuse the show’s creators of “queer baiting” them simply because they didn’t get what they expected from Mizu.

Whether they want to admit or not, these are still the assumptions that many folks always make when it comes to women who are not traditionally feminine.

Women of color in particular are always expected to overcompensate and must be hyper feminine in order to even be seen as “women”. We grow up disliking our own ethnic features because we’re taught to think of ourselves as either ugly or as just a sexual object, so because of this we always feel like we have to make up for something when it comes to society’s ideal beauty standards.

Example: as a mixed race person, Mizu is seen as unattractive in 1600s Edo, Japan. Mikio’s first words to her were “you’re not as hideous as I expected” and he says this so causally because they both know she’s not considered beautiful in their society. Mizu is not even considered truly “Japanese” even though she was born + raised there, only speaks Japanese and also had a Japanese parent.

Even while presenting as a man, people everywhere are constantly saying that Mizu is ugly. Women aren’t considered “women” if they aren’t beautiful and traditionally feminine, so for Mizu to be both mixed race AND an unattractive woman (again, in their mind), that just makes her double the sin in society’s eyes.

Up until this point Mizu had never even been allowed to live publicly as a woman because her “mother” stripped away her womanhood since birth and insisted that Mizu “must always be a boy” in order to survive, so I don’t doubt that also contributes to Mizu’s pain and trauma. She has never been allowed to be fully herself. Not even once. Mizu is miserable living this way and it’s frustrating how white queers don’t realize that because they’re too busy projecting themselves onto her.

They see a strong able bodied character who is not traditionally feminine and decide that is not a woman.

They see a character who binds their breasts and decide that is a transman or nonbinary person.

They see a character who is not very outwardly emotional and decide that person is autistic.

They see a character who has other priorities besides sex and decide that person is asexual.

And so on, and so on … it’s all just one projection after another. And a lot of them will say things like “Mizu is too cool to be cishet lol” and I’m like??? Since when are stories about cishet women of color considered too boring for audiences? Last I checked — we rarely get representation, much less good representation that is both well written and well researched.

Also, it’s so interesting to me how many of them have such an easy time accepting Akemi as a “woman” but not Mizu. And we all know why — it’s because Akemi is exactly what society thinks women should be: delicate, submissive, thin, rich, “pure blood” and traditionally feminine. Basically she is all the things that Mizu lacks in their eyes. And again, the writers know this too because that’s exactly why Mizu hates Akemi at first.

Mizu is jealous of Akemi because she gets to live publicly as a woman and is openly accepted by other women around her. One of the reasons why Mizu is so angry is because she was denied womanhood! All Mizu really wants is to be accepted as a fellow Japanese woman and yet white queers are genuinely out here constantly arguing otherwise. 🤦🏻‍♀️

On first glance theres nothing inherently wrong w lgbt/nd hcs of characters of color or whatever. But on a more deeper level it says something when white minorities keep making theories and hcs about characters of colour (who are cishet and nt) because they cannot relate to them otherwise. like w the mizu thing - most of the time i would encourage lgbt hcs, ace hcs, autism hcs etc but especially in the shows context..no. shes literally a cishet woman! its not even a zhu chongba situation where someones faking being a man but is also genuinely nonbinary/possibly transmasc. mizu is not lgbt and thats fine. mizus opression comes from her race (specifically being mixed with white) and gender (the swordsmaster accepts her race and past, but doesnt listen to her when shes going to confess being a woman) . Also shes FORCED to be a man and its not even like a "i was forced at first but now im content and i might be a man all along" like no.

Note: since i tagged this and strangers might see it- im a bi white+asian trans man whos autistic. So dont pull the 'ur just bigoted' shit.

[lxgentlefolkcomic]

The party’s in full swing over on Discord!

Fans of the project and lovers of classic lit in general are invited to join us over at The League of Extraordinary Gentlefolk’s official Discord server! (Victorian formal wear not required.)

Come chat about the comic, discuss your favorite classic books, rotate blorbos, or just hang out and chill with us. Server rules and invite link under the cut:

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[aroclawthornes]

Blooming Brilliant, an Aroace Willow Park Manifesto

[id: a gif of a heart locket opening. One half of the locket displays a picture of Willow Park from The Owl House, winking and making peace signs with her fingers. Blue and yellow stars surround her. The other half reads "willow park my beloved." /end id.]

Greetings! It’s me, User Aroclawthornes, and instead of working on all the time-sensitive homework I have I sat down and wrote an essay explaining why I think Willow Park OwlHouse could plausibly be read as aroace, and why it would be a thematically enriching interpretation. I’ve never written anything like this before, so it’s oddly formal, a little pretentious, and contains a lot of qualifying language, but I'm confident that it gets my point across. I’m not intending to speak over other interpretations of Willow or assert that it's the only true way to read her, but it's a headcanon I find interesting, and I think there’s a lot of evidence to back it up, between certain elements that Willow’s arc employs to some good old overanalysed symbolism. If you're aspec, I hope this is validating; if you're not, I hope it's interesting; if you don't care, scrolling past it is quick, free, and easy.

Some disclaimers on terminology: I’m speaking from an aroace perspective, and so when I say “aspec coding” I’m generally referring to both orientations as a catch-all - a lot of the coding surrounding Willow could go either way. I’m also going to be talking about commonly accepted “aspec” narratives, but I’m aware of the limitations of this insofar as my experiences are only a single facet of the diverse range of aspec people in this world, so anyone who wants to add or argue anything - respectfully - is encouraged to.

Analysis below the cut!

The Thing About Plants

I’m not going to pretend that an association with plants is historically indicative of aspec coding, because, frankly, there haven’t been enough aspec characters to establish it as a convention, and it’s also a fairly wide-reaching branch of symbolism. However, I am going to propose that lighthearted comparisons between asexual people and plants (however misguided on functions of plant reproduction they are) are fairly common elements of budding ace teenage humour, as are related quips about photosynthesis.

[id: a screenshot of Willow from "I Was A Teenage Abomination", depicting her sitting on the ground while casting a spell over a small, pink flower. /end id.]

I’m also not going to claim that the colour green Belongs To Aromantics, and therefore that All Plants Are Belong To Us, but in tandem with everything else I’m about to cover, the connection between Willow and plants seems like a fairly plausible nudge to a relatively common element of aspec humour.

“Half-a-witch” Willow and the Late Bloomer Experience

[id: a screenshot of Willow with glowing green eyes, from "I Was A Teenage Abomination", depicting her summoning a mess of thorned vines. /end id]

Willow is literally nicknamed “half-a-witch”, in reference to her supposedly incomplete state - this is a sentiment eerily reminiscent of the pressure to find one’s “other half”, which affects aspec - especially aromantic - people particularly profoundly. She’s considered a late bloomer, someone who hasn’t reached the societal milestones of growth at the expected age, and who is derided and considered immature as a result of this perceived failure. However, we quickly discover that Willow is, in fact, an exceptionally competent and powerful witch - taken out of the restricting frame of the Abominations track, she’s able to grow into her own, “complete” person, therefore proving that she was never really lacking in anything in the first place. Like real-life aroace people, she was perceived as limited and immature based on the expectations and judgements of other people, but Willow was never deficient in anything, least of all herself.

[id: a screenshot of Willow and Luz from "I Was A Teenage Abomination". They are holding hands - the former is laughing with her eyes closed, and the latter is grinning, while covered in abomination goop. /end id]

As far as symbolism goes...the track Willow is initially put in literally requires her to conjure up another humanoid entity, with the expectation that she will therefore prove herself to be a whole and mature person. Only with this ability, she’s told, will she be successful and happy as an adult. The shapelessness of her attempts at conjuring an abomination reinforces this connection in my mind - if I may reference this quote from Ducktales 2017‘s (absolutely stellar) A Nightmare On Killmotor Hill, in which the protagonists explore their own subconscious fears via. the dream realm, for a second:

“I think that’s supposed to be my romantic interest, but I’m too threatened by the concept, so it never takes shape.”

A lot of young aroace people find themselves in situations where they attempt to convince themself of their interest in someone in an attempt to be “normal,” or end up lying in response to family members or friends’ questions about crushes. While Willow’s abominations, first and foremost, represent the expectations from her school, classmates, and family to be a successful, “complete” witch with a profitable future, I think that with an aroace interpretation of Willow they could also very easily be read as representing some latent insecurities over a lack of attraction, or pressure to find a significant other.

(I’m not condemning Willow’s dads, by the way - they seem like perfectly lovely fellas, and I’m confident that they were doing what they thought was best for her. They’re certainly very quick to drop everything to assure her future in Escaping Expulsion, so obviously they care about their daughter very much.)

Greens, Blues, and Yellows: Colour-Coding Willow Park

A while back, I made this post comparing Willow’s palette to the aromantic and aroace flags:

[id: a screenshot of a post depicting the aromantic and aromantic asexual flags, colour-picked from images of Willow in her Hexside uniform and casual dress respectively - these are overlaid on top of the flags. The caption reads "observations on willow park". /end id.]

The grey-and-green aromantic flag has long been the accepted mainstream symbol of aromanticism, and, as the above post - and many others - demonstrate, Willow’s palette reflects it near-perfectly. This could easily be a coincidence, owing to the palette of the standard Hexside Plant Track uniform, as well as her hair and eye colours - which are obviously supposed to be reflective of her plant-related abilities. However, given how fond of employing hidden meanings The Owl House has shown itself to be, I don’t think it’s far-fetched to claim that there’s at least a chance that her palette was constructed with the flag in mind.

The latter is...a bit more problematic for me, although it’s fun to joke about. The blue-and-yellow aroace flag was only created in December 2018, relatively late into The Owl House’s initial production, and it’s still relatively obscure, although on the rise in popularity as the accepted aroace flag (I only recently started using it myself), so I don’t know if Willow’s casual wear is enough to verify the presence of any deliberate subtext. I think it’s a fun coincidence, however, and (as was pointed out in this post) it’s cool that these blue and yellow stars surrounding Willow occur in the same frame as Luz’s bisexual decor:

[id: a photograph of Luz, Gus, and Willow, all surrounding a disgruntled-looking Principal Bump. Luz has flowers in the colours of the bisexual flag decorating her hair, while Willow is surrounded by bright blue and yellow stars. /end id.]

also seen above: powerful bi/aspec solidarity

Conclusion:

Do I genuinely believe that Willow is being deliberately written this way? If you’d asked me, say, two months ago, I’d have said probably not - as far as queer representation in kids’ cartoons has come, it has a ways to go, and focusing on transgender characters seems like a more obvious (and equally invaluable) route to go down. I can name maybe five explicitly aspec characters off the top of my head, two of whom have been written as alloromantic and/or sexual in adaptations or continuations of the source material (I have...some grievances with 2005 Doctor Who). But the emergence of Raine, an explicitly nonbinary character on Disney Channel, has given me a little spark of hope, and so, even if it’s never confirmed, it’s comforting to be able to see a character with such strong elements of aspec coding and think to myself, just maybe, that there might be some intent behind it.

I also...really want to see interesting things done with Willow. We’re halfway through Season 2, and despite some promising setup for her arc in the Season 1 finale, she’s sort of been left by the wayside lately in favour of developing the more “plot-relevant” characters, such as Luz, Amity, Eda, and Hunter. Frankly, I think it’s a disservice to her Season 1 development, despite how much I adore all the characters I just listed - beyond any personal motivation, the prospect that Willow could be aroace adds a lot of sorely-sought depth to her, and, as detailed, a lot of this has already been set up in her earlier episodes. I just...I think it’d be neat. Rarely do you get a kids’ show so brazenly queer in its themes as Owl House, and aspec people deserve to be included in that.

Willow would also be great aroace representation because, well - those five or so aspec characters I mentioned being aware of are all white or “raceless” (...also written as white, basically), and so an aspec Asian character would be a really lovely step forward in this area. Additionally, all the characters I referred to are also conventionally skinny, and Willow is not only fat, but written in a way that doesn’t treat this feature as a caricature. People who are more knowledgeable on these topics than I are absolutely free to make additions, as is anyone who feels like I’ve left certain details out.

tl;dr: Willow’s association with plants could be read as a cool nod to aspec humour, her “late bloomer” narrative is eerily reminiscent of some common aspec experiences, her palette speaks for itself, and it’d be really cool if we could diversify the so-far fairly bland sphere of aspec representation.

I’m going to conclude this by linking Rose by The Oh Hellos, because they’re my favourite band, they share The Owl House’s initials, and I also think it’s a good Willow song. Peace out.

[kitkatopinions]

Can we talk about the rampant bi/panphobia surrounding Yang "looks at guys like they're fresh meat in the first 3 volumes and chibi" Xiao Long? Blake's gets brought up a lot as 90% of her reason for existing is to be the romancable NPC, but it's hardly talked about with Yang. She has shown express interest in guys. Even if Bees goes canon, it's not a Bi/Lesbian ship. It's a Bi/Bi or Bi/Pan ship or what ever other possible identity that doesn't erase Yang's attraction to men. I get the whole wanting rep thing but there's more lesbians in RWBY than any other LGBT identity and they aren't really that good in terms of representation. Do we really need another angry/aggressive/problematic lesbian in RWBY? And whenever it does get brought up, Lesbian!Yang fans always go "oh, it's just comphet". Um, excuse me? Isn't comphet not supposed to be a thing in Remnant?

Okay, so there's a lot to unpack here, and I do get why you're so frustrated because as a bi person, it gets so frustrating dealing with not only a huge lack of representation, but also feeling boxed out of, undervalued by, and invalidated by your own community sometimes. I myself have been really frustrated and even hurt by the way many RWBY fans (and specifically Bumblebee fans) have talked about Blake and Yang's sexuality, like they would be less gay or less rep if they were bi, how shipping them with men is 'wrong' because it's 'straight behavior' and 'validating the straights,' and I got particularly annoyed once by a post that claimed that people only shipped Yang and Weiss so that they could force Blake - who they claimed was a canon lesbian - into a relationship with a man. I think it's clear why people talk about Blake's status as bi more than Yang's - Yang has one moment in eight seasons where she acts clearly attracted to men, whereas Blake has had two canon romantic relationships with men, Adam being her ex and her having gone on a date with and kissed Sun on the cheek. When people dispute Blake's status as a bi, sometimes they (rightly) come at it from the point of view of 'this is just my own personal headcanon for my own benefit.' But too often, Blake's attraction to men is dismissed outright and fans try and find every excuse to invalidate it so that they can insist that Blake is a canon lesbian. That's pretty openly biphobic imo. (Also I don't agree that 90% of Blake's character is a romancable NPC. I think maybe she's become mostly not an active character who only really exists as support and romance, but the idea that it's 90% of her overall show character is weird to me, Blake is done dirty by the show but that doesn't mean she's not a character for the first five seasons.)

But Yang is also worth talking about. Because of the fact that her moment of displaying clear attraction towards men is brief and early in the show, many fans have just... Thrown it out entirely, and decided that not only does it not count, but that anyone who brings it up is living in the past and is stupid for paying attention to the early seasons. That's obviously really dumb. The idea that after the first five seasons, Yang is displaying clear romantic attraction towards a girl for the first time, she is now one hundred percent a lesbian in canon because she's only displayed romantic attraction towards men once... That's also rooted in biphobia. Being attracted to men doesn't just suddenly go away because you're attracted to women and vice versa, no one chooses to be bi, gay, straight, ace, whatever. If Yang was sexually attracted towards men at seventeen, that part of her doesn't stop existing just because she's sexually attracted to women too. The thing is, headcanoning Yang (or even Blake!) as a lesbian is totally fine. I think the RWBY creators did say that sexism, racism, and homophobia doesn't exist in Remnant, but like ??? Idk why they'd decide something like that if they were gonna make jokes about Jaune and Qrow wearing skirts haha laugh at the non-gender-conformity of men, and if they'd write the first five seasons with literally one gay character, while tons of straight relationships that get credence, everyone else expresses no clear romantic inclination towards the same sex for five years of the show running. And we're supposed to think there's no heteronormativity at least? Cardin and Jaune both have clear toxic masculinity problems that Jaune grows out of, but we're supposed to think that toxic masculinity has nothing to do with any sexism or homophobia, however internalized? I think if people want their fans to believe there is not sexism or homophobia or racism in their fake world, they need to make good and sure their own internalized issues don't leak into their work. So I don't think it's wholly invalid when people decide that in their headcanon, they think Yang just acted like she was attracted to men because she thought she should. I especially think it's valid for people to headcanon that Yang had acted like she attracted to men because she thought she was. She was only seventeen, seventeen year olds put on behavior that they think is cool and she is the niece of Qrow 'wink at Winter to piss her off' Branwen, and Yang could've realized maybe during school that putting on behavior was all that was, and that she isn't actually attracted towards men and likes girls - specifically the girl dancing with Sun at the school ball. That's perfectly valid as a headcanon. But that's all it is, a headcanon.

Yang is not a canon lesbian and it's perfectly valid and supported by Yang's canon interactions for people to consider her bi or pan, and people can even headcanon her as ace if they want. Trying to demand that other people see fictional characters as the sexuality you prefer them in is just going to drive wedges, especially when so much venom seems to be directed towards bi characters, with others acting like they're literally less rep if they also have romantic interactions with people of the opposite sex. Like, people literally have the idea of "I love that Blake is bi, but I hate that people are shipping her with men or talking about Blake's romances with men and idk why the show put any focus on her romantically interacting with men." Like, sure, okay, so you support bi characters so long as they don't be bi too obviously. But... I'm getting off topic.

Here's the thing... I would caution not to get too deep in this "there's too many lesbians," concept. We're supposed to all be one community, supporting and fighting for each other. The problem isn't that there's too much representation for lesbians, the problem is that there is not enough representation for bi people, or pan, or ace, or trans men, or trans women, or non-binary people, etc. We don't have to wish less for other gay people to wish for more for ourselves. I agree that disregarding Yang's moment of attraction to men maybe isn't the way to go, but it's not that there are already enough lesbians in RWBY. There are only three side characters (by the way, two of them aren't confirmed lesbians, just because they're in a relationship with each other,) two of whom made a very minor appearance in all of two or three episodes and will likely never return to the story. As you say, the rep that lesbians have gotten in RWBY isn't very good. Them desiring more representation is perfectly valid, and I even get them wanting that representation from Yang, despite her single moment of lusting after boys in season one. That's a perfectly understandable desire. I myself want gay Neptune despite him expressing interest in women. It's not wrong. The only thing that's wrong is villainizing and mocking people for their own very valid ships like BlackSun or Yang x Jaune or Yang x Mercury or Blake x Ren or whatever ships people like. I'm sorry that I can't agree with you here, but if there was a scene in RWBY where Yang discusses her feelings for Blake and says that she realized she's a lesbian... I might not be particularly happy with the writing staff, because I already heard there's an element of disregarding Blake's former relationship with Sun in things like the comics, which is frustrating as a bi person. But I would be happy for the people who would find in this something that speaks to them and makes them feel like their own experiences are represented. Sometimes I can feel excluded from the LGBTQ+ community due to my attraction towards men, and that's hard, but I'm not going to start devaluing the victories of other gay people because of it, I'm not going to start getting upset when they get representation, or when a character they love claims an identity that reflects their own.

I do get where your frustration is coming from though, and it's perfectly valid to feel upset and exasperated both with the way MKEK write their queer relationships and in how people in the fandom tend to disregard the bi identity of characters.

[bemtevis]

Cassandra Clare's LGBTQ+ Rep

I'm here, I'm queer and I am angry. I'm also: not the LGBTQ+ community's spokesperson, and people are going to have different experiences with different characters. I'm just here to talk about mine.

Bisexuality:

We are often seen as flirty and even promiscuous people. Of course there's nothing wrong with being those things, but it's different when a straight author portrays most of her character like that.

• Matthew Fairchild (TLH), who's seen making out with both men and women by James.

• Magnus Bane (TMI), who flirts with everyone, including his love interest who was a 17 year old at the time.

• Mark Blackthorn (TDA) is safe, I'd say. My only problem with him is that his relationship with Kieran and Cristina is called a “hot faerie threesome”, since people like to see polyamory as promiscuous, but I'm not poly and that's not what we're talking about.

• Even Helen Blackthorn (TMI) and Kieran Kingson (TDA) are mentioned to have that kind of reputation. Hers in TEC, his by Mark in their short story, iirc.

Acespec:

People in the acespec (and in the aspec in general) are usually seen as two things: 1. childish and 2. emotionless.

• Julian Blackthorn (TDA) is demisexual. Many times, he's described as cold and ruthless, and while that might make sense with his character and backstory, there were many other characters that could've been in the acespec if not him.

• Raphael Santiago (TMI) is aroace. It's the same problem with Julian: he does care about his friends and all, but he's still portrayed as emotionless and cold. Also he dies, so there's that. I guess if you can't have a romantic plotline, you're not relevant enough.

• This is less about the author and more about the fandom. Grace Blackthorn and Christopher Lightwood (TLH) are two characters I've seen headcanoned as aro/ace– I don't think with him that would be a problem if many of those people also didn't like to infantilize him. Grace is a more complicated topic, and since I'm not aro I'll not be touching on.

Genderqueer:

Ok, it's important to notice that I'm still questioning, but from the little I know of my identity, I'm not happy with CC's rep either.

• Diana Wrayburn (TDA) is a trans woman. She's sidelined, cast aside, and most of her role is to be the protagonists' mentor. No, that's literally her role. She does have a storyline for herself though, so I can't complain about that. I'm also not a (binary) trans woman, so anyone feel free to correct me.

• Anna Lightwood (TLH) is a lesbian non-binary woman. She's a heartbreaker (read: she treats women like shit and canonically objectifies them), and CC's view of wlw as predators is really showing. We're still supposed to believe she's a queen of feminism, I guess.

WLW:

This is more of a complain on how CC sidelines her wlw couples but gives her straight couples way more page time and fetishizes mlm, but that's not what we're talking about.

• Aline Penhallow and Helen (TMI) show up in like,, three chapters in their main saga before being exiled.

• Ariadne Bridgestock (TLH) who spends the majority of the first book in a coma, so her love interest can cry some white tears I guess. Also she's pretty much villanized for protecting herself, and now has to crawl to win her white love interest's affection.

• Ariadne and Anna (TLH) have little to no pagetime. CC seems eager to mention that they ~are gonna make out in a closet~ which after that snippet was leaked, just seems like a desperate atempt to not seem lesbophobic. Also everything I've mentioned above, in their individual parts.

I can't really think of anything else, so anyone feel free to add anything if you want to.

[itsclydebitches]

(WLW anon) I really don’t like the “bad rep is better then none at all”. I hate that. We should want good rep, because bad rep has been used time and time again by homophobes as to say we shouldn’t get representation. To me it’s not “gay can have the same flaws as het”, it’s “fix the flaws in the het”. Also I know Renora being independent was a good, I was just saying in comparison BB. Also, yes, they were separated, but also didn’t stop thinking about each other. Especially bad with Yang.

Indulge me for a moment because I want to take a trip down memory lane and list some—just some—of the queer rep that has been important to me over the years:

Ellen comes out both as herself and as her character… years later, she’s a hated millionaire who is criticized for how she treats her staff

The wildly influential Buffy gives us two women entering a loving relationship… except then Tara is killed off, Willow goes evil for a time, and Buffy comes under fire for Joss Whedon’s everything

The beloved and respectable headmaster of one of the most popular book series ever published is revealed to be gay… except it doesn’t count because it wasn’t in the text and now all of Harry Potter is cancelled because JKR is transphobic

Kurt is an unambiguously gay teen in a hugely popular TV series, acting as one of the first overt representations a generation has seen… except he’s way too stereotypical and Glee is a joke now

Orange is the New Black gives us a number of queer women, including one of our first trans characters… but isn’t it problematic that they’re all criminals?

Brooklyn Nine-Nine hosts an out gay captain and gives us a bisexual coming out story that resonated with many, myself included… except now we’re supposed to hate all the characters on principle because they’re cops

Korra and Asami walk off into the spiritual sunset together… but they never kiss or anything, so that doesn’t count either

Steven Universe gives us a queer relationship and a wedding… but it’s an issue that this is just a kid’s show and, really, does it count when the rep is embodied by space rocks whose entire species only creates a single gender? Feels like a cop-out

Same with Good Omens. Yeah, Crowley and Aziraphale clearly love each other… but you never see them kiss or declare their intentions. It’s great ace rep though! Unless you want to level the criticism that asexual characters are always nonhuman

A character intended to be a minor guest becomes a show staple and eventually declares his love for one of the two main characters… except then Castiel immediately dies, Dean doesn’t respond, and they never meet on screen again

I finished Queen’s Gambit the other day and the main character had a one-night stand with a woman! … but everyone is talking about how bisexuality is used to represent her lowest point, so that’s bad too

I could go on for literal pages. Some of these arguments I agree with (Dumbledore), others I’ve pushed back against quite strongly (Crowley and Aziraphale), but all of them are valid criticisms depending on what part of the queer community you’re in and what your expectations are. My point here is that it’s all “bad rep.” I mean that seriously. If anyone reading this is scrambling for the comment section to say why [insert media title here] is actually fantastic rep, I guarantee that someone disagrees. Or if they don’t, give it some time. Just wait until the characterization becomes offensively outdated, or another part of the story ruins the relationship, or it comes out that the author did something truly horrific, or the terminology changes and it’s labeled as “problematic” now… just wait. At some point, any rep we feel is good rep now will be criticized, cancelled, and dragged through the mud. The rep that I personally haven’t seen much push-back against—like the beloved Captain Jack Harkness in Doctor Who, or Schitts Creek that just won a ton of awards—is wrapped up in the criticism, “So it’s all just about able-bodied, cis, (mostly) white dudes, huh? :/”  Even the argument that queer characters need to be written by queer authors doesn’t hold up. I absolutely adored Sense8. “Wow, a gay main character in a loving relationship with another gay man, both of whom enter a loving poly relationship with a woman, another lesbian trans main character who marries the love of her life on screen, an entire cast arguably queer due to them sharing orgy scenes centered around the emotional intimacy they share, everyone survives, and this was written by two trans women! Great, right?” Well, not according to the wealth of opinions explaining how Sense8 is horrible rep, actually. Every piece of rep we’ve got is either currently flawed or will become flawed in the future.

So what do we do with that?

That’s where my “I’d rather have bad rep than no rep at all” comes in. For me, that’s not waving the white flag. That’s not an oath that I won’t expect better rep in the future (I do) or that I won’t criticize the rep we get (BOY DO I), but rather just an acknowledgement of reality. The vast majority—if not the entirety—of rep is “bad rep” in one way or another, but I’d still rather have it than nothing at all. Because I’ve lived just long enough and studied media just enough to know what nothing looked like. It was watching all queer characters meet untimely deaths. Before that it was watching queer characters be derided and treated as jokes. Before that it was nothing but coding, where queer characters didn’t exist except in our own headcanons and interpretations. Obviously “bad rep” covers a very large range of issues and “They haven’t even confirmed this relationship yet” is a bigger issue than “This queer character embodies one or two, mild stereotypes,” but ultimately I’d take any of it over nothing at all. And enjoying what we’ve currently got doesn’t mean I’m willing to settle for it indefinitely.

To use an iffy analogy, imagine there’s a factory. This factory makes plates. So. Many. Plates. Big plates, small plates, plain plates, decorative plates, plates for every possible occasion in your life—and everyone with a steak for dinner is pleased as punch. You though? You’ve got soup. You need a bowl. Your entire life you’ve been struggling to eat your soup off a plate (it doesn’t work) and listening to friends and family claim that the plate with a slightly raised edge could be a bowl if you squint (it’s not). To say it’s frustrating is an understatement.

But then, one day, the factory starts producing bowls too. Hurray! Except as soon as you get your hands on one, you’re told you really shouldn’t be using it, let alone praising it. Look at the state of that bowl! It’s cracked right down the middle, ugly as hell, shoddily made all around… you’re not really going to settle for that, are you? And no, you obviously still want the factory to produce better bowls, but at the same time, this is a bowl. You’ve never gotten one before and you can finally enjoy your meal, even if the soup leaks at times. Sometimes a lot. But you’re still feeling better about your meal than you ever have before. And what you then begin to realize is that lots of the plates are a mess too. They also have cracks, they’re also ugly, many are also shoddily made. The difference is that the factory is producing so many plates at such a rapid pace that every steak eater is able to get by. One plate breaks completely? You’ve got a thousand fallbacks. Don’t like the look of this one? A thousand other options. You disagree about what “shoddily made” means? Luckily there are enough plates that everyone can find what they prefer! But the bowls… there’s only a few. Some are really expensive. Others are only available for a limited time before they suddenly disappear. Your bowl breaks and you have to wait months, years sometimes, to get another one. You’re constantly told to go buy this one obscure bowl no one else has heard about and yeah, you like it... but you’d also like to buy one of the bowls everyone is already enjoying. You find yourself looking at the plates and thinking, “I’d like that. I’d like to have so many options that the flaws, while still a problem, are much more bearable.” You’re still going to demand that the factory get its shit together, you’re still going to (rightly) complain about the awful quality of your bowl… but it’s still nice to have a bowl, period. There are still things you like about it, even if it’s a mess: the color, the size, the beauty of the shape of it. Its potential. You’re still pleased you have something to enjoy and that helps serve the need you’re looking to fill, even if that something is imperfect.

That’s “bad rep is better than no rep.” To bring this very long response back to Blake/Yang, I don’t think their problems negate their benefits. Is their relationship currently non-canonical and filled with a number of writing issues everyone has a right to be angry about? Yup. I express that anger a great deal. Are they still half of a team on a very popular show that is (presumably) set to be canonized as queer? Yup. I’d much rather live in a world where big shows like RWBY try to include queer rep and fail in a multitude of ways—with the expectation and hope that they’ll continue to improve—rather than in a world where authors a) don’t care or b) are too scared to try. Because that’s where a “good rep or no rep” stance leads. The danger isn’t homophobes because they’re, well, homophobes. It doesn’t matter if the rep is good or not, they hate it on principle. But if queer authors writing for other queer identities, or allies writing queer identities, or even queer authors writing their own experiences (like in Sense8) continually come under non-stop fire for their attempts… there’s a good chance that many people won’t ever try. We’re already seeing that here on tumblr with young authors admitting that they wouldn’t touch [insert topic here] with a ten-foot pole because just look at what happens when you get it wrong. And authors will get things wrong because authors are fallible people forever unlearning their own ignorance. So though it might sound strange coming from a blog that has turned into such a RWBY critical space, I am glad that RWBY’s queer rep exists, despite all the frustrations that I share about it. I think a RWBY with various types of “bad” queer rep is better than a RWBY with no queer rep at all, particularly when “bad” or “good” is so intensely subjective. There’s a middle ground between passively accepting whatever we’re given, and tearing into rep with such ferocity that we end up rejecting it all. There’s a space where we can be critical of rep and embrace the parts that work for us, simultaneously.

I hope and expect the het rep will get better too, but… that’s never going to happen instantly. To quote RWBY, there’s no magic wand we can wave to fix all our problems. Rather, it will take slow, plodding, meandering, lifetimes’ worth of work to see that change occur and I personally don’t want to spend the one life I have waiting for that perfect rep to show up. Because it’s unlikely that it will. While we work, I’d rather find the good in what rep we’ve already got.  

[sou-ver-2-0]

Ranmaru and Keiji Parallels...and please note that this post touches sensitive topics

@gingus-doon​ Okay, since you asked so nicely!!

(Referring to this post I wrote, in which I drew parallels between Joe and Original Sou, and between Ranmaru and Keiji)

I admit that this is…tricky to talk about. Initially, I actually wrote a short paragraph about Ranmaru and Keiji but then I deleted it, because I realized that it would distract from all the other points I made in that post, and I didn’t want to do that. But here are my thoughts. And please hear me out.

The text for Joe and Original Sou is that they parallel each other as “Best Friends” for Sara and Shin.

The text for Ranmaru and Keiji is that they parallel each other as “Romantic Interests” for Sara.

Anyone reading this, please keep in mind that I am not talking about shipping, and I am not even talking about subtext. I am talking about the literal text, which is that Keiji flirts with Sara, and Sara flirts with Ranmaru. Personally, I think this is a fascinating parallel! But I want to make clear that I’m simply trying to analyze the text, and the way these relationships parallel each other, while being completely different in tone!

When Keiji flirts with Sara, the tone is creepy and unsettling, and the humor is dark. When Sara flirts with Ranmaru, the tone is cute and awkward, and the humor is light. What’s really interesting to me is how flirting is used in YTTD as a kind of power play. When Keiji flirts with the player, it’s natural to feel nervous and overwhelmed. When the player flirts with Ranmaru, it’s like the player has a chance to finally turn the tables and take charge, leaving Ranmaru flustered.

This feels similar to what I was just saying about Sara and Joe, the “cute and innocent” friendship, and how they parallel Shin and Sou, the “creepy and abusive” friendship. One relationship is light, and the other is dark. Also, a quick word about subtext, which is a messy, subjective beast. The text for Sara & Joe, and Shin & Sou, is friendship. However, it’s easy to read romantic subtext in both relationships, since the feelings involved were obviously intense, and since the characters fit into certain tropes (boy and girl teenage sweethearts at the center of the story vs. outrageous queer-coded villains). Which leads to romantic headcanons being very popular for them, regardless of fans’ shipping tastes! I just want to be as clear as possible on the differences between text, subtext, and shipping here.

Anyway, back to Ranmaru and Keiji. Something I think about a lot is this early conversation Sara shares with Joe about “getting a boyfriend.” Because I think the subtext here might be foreshadowing for both Keiji and Ranmaru!

SARA: (I’ve rarely ever walked home at this hour… It feels really dark…)

JOE: What’s up? Wanna hold hands?

SARA: Ehh…?

.

CHOICE: Yes

JOE: On second thought, you'd probably crush me with that amazing grip of yours. Nah, forget it, Sara!

SARA: (It's not like I'm boasting about it…)

.

CHOICE: No

JOE: I’m just kidding! Don’t actually get mad at me.

.

JOE: But real talk… Wouldn’t it help things if you got a boyfriend?

SARA: …

JOE: … / You can’t sleep, right? ‘Cause of your stalker…

SARA: Is that… why you always go home with me?

JOE: D… Dummy… I just wanted to brag…

Joe’s question, “Wouldn’t it help things if you got a boyfriend?” has always stood out to me. First of all, because it’s not very feminist of him to say omg. Although, I think it’s a realistic thing a concerned boy would say to his girl best friend.

Essentially what’s going on here is that Joe is worried that he can’t protect Sara on his own. He wishes that there was another boy, a competent boyfriend, to protect her when he’s not around.

And I think it’s really interesting to consider that Joe may have wished on a monkey’s paw here! Because the person who replaces Joe as “helpful tutorial character” is not another cute high school boy, but Keiji. Keiji who is definitely competent and wicked smart, and he probably is the best ally for “protecting Sara,” but he’s also a scary adult man, and his flirtations are creepy, and can we really trust him?

But all Joe wanted was for Sara to be safe! A completely innocent wish!

And then we meet Ranmaru in Chapter 3, who also gets “romantic moments” in text with Sara. But let’s talk specifically about how Ranmaru steps up to protect her! In the Logic Route, then Ranmaru is the one to take the tag from Sara, instead of Keiji. (And Keiji gets miffed that Ranmaru “stole his line.”)

I also wanted to talk about the hand-holding! In the conversation I shared earlier, Joe felt too awkward to hold Sara’s hand, even if Sara wants to. But Sara grabs Ranmaru’s hand! It’s like we’re finally getting the pay-off for the hand-holding set-up. Hand-holding is tied into the “protective boyfriend role” that Joe wanted for Sara.

I’m wondering, if maybe the fact that both Ranmaru and Keiji have outstretched left hands is related to this? And the fact that Ranmaru keeps his distance respectfully, while Keiji encroaches his hand into your personal space, fits in with their “innocent vs. scary” vibes.

Again, to be perfectly clear, I’m not talking about shipping. I’m just trying to analyze the text and the subtext as earnestly as I can, because I find that stuff fascinating. I think that these parallels between Ranmaru and Keiji just further establishes Ranmaru as a sweetheart and Keiji as shady, which everyone already knows. It doesn’t mean that Sara is like, gonna get married in canon with anyone. She’s just trying to navigate her relationships with these different boys as best as she can, on top of trying to make moral decisions, and on top of simply trying to survive.

[archivalpride]

question- you did say that all headcanons are allowed, but what about headcanons that are actually. perpetrating stereotypes/bigotry? like butch daisy, which leans a lot on the stereotype that masc/butch women are violent? i'm just curious about how much you'd allow potentially bigoted/homophobic headcanons.

Thanks for sharing your concerns! This is an important topic, so we're glad you felt comfortable coming forward with it. We do address this in our rules & guidelines:

Works or behavior that promote or display racist, queerphobic, ableist, misogynistic, or otherwise bigoted tropes, themes, language, or other content will not be tolerated, and will be rejected from this event. For example: A work that includes ableism as part of a queer character’s experience is allowed, so long as said ableism is warned for; a work that includes ableist tropes as part of the narrative is not.

Our goal is to allow folks to explore various LGBTQ+ experiences, some of which may contain some of the 'darker' aspects of what queer people go through, while doing so in a manner that is informed and respectful. We've actually been working on a post with some resources for folks who are interested in writing about marginalized experiences they don't personally have, and we hope to have it ready soon!

We do also want to note that in the LGBTQ+ community, as everywhere else, people may have competing needs or desires from their fiction or art; what one person finds cathartic and empowering, another may find personally triggering or hurtful. The best way to ensure both people have the safest experience possible is to promote proper tagging that allows people to make an informed decision whether or not to interact with a particular work.

To answer your specific question: A person who headcanons Daisy as butch because of her violence, and writes a fic that ties together her butchness and her violence in a stereotypical manner, would not be allowed in this event. But a person who recognizes their own butchness in Daisy's fragile strength and desire to protect her loved ones in S4 and decides to write a fic exploring that narrative, on the other hand, would be allowed.

That said, we're uninterested in discussing the merits of particular headcanons, as that is not the purpose of this blog or this event.

Thanks again for your question, and happy almost-Pride!

[microsuedemouse]

last night I had an Absolute Stranger pop up in my notes to be totally hostile out of nowhere about my interpretations of some fictional characters. I took the initiative to block them because they were engaging in bad faith and clearly had no interest in discussing the subject. now they don't have to see my content anymore and everyone wins! but I've been thinking about it ever since, and I wanted to share some thoughts here, with those of you who are reasonable and not just trying to start arguments with people you've never interacted with before. I know that at times I've collected large numbers of young, passionate followers, so I think this is a discussion worth having with anyone who's willing to converse in good faith!

one of the most fundamental truths of how human beings interact with fiction is that every single member of the audience is going to have a different take on the story. if you ask me, this is also one of the most beautiful and interesting things about engaging with other fans of something. everyone is bringing something different to the table when they sit down to read, watch, listen, play, or otherwise take in the tale. everyone is going to have their own context through which to understand the characters and events in the story. when you're dealing with literally anything that isn't expressly stated by the storytelling, you're dealing with interpretation, and there is never only one correct way to interpret a story or character. this just isn't how fiction works.

let me give you a good, clear example of what I mean. several years ago, in one of my university classes, I read Karen Russell's short story St. Lucy's Home for Girls Raised by Wolves. the story is about a group of girls - maybe werewolves, maybe only feral children; it's left somewhat ambiguous - who are taken from their wolf families and re-educated by nuns to be proper young ladies. they're made to sit up straight and cut their wild hair and speak only in human languages, giving up the howling and growling they've used all their lives. it's difficult and unnatural for them. when my prof asked us what the story reminded us of, I was the one who brought up residential schools, and it seemed that a lot of my classmates agreed with me: the similarities were striking, even if Russell hadn't had that in mind. but an autistic classmate of mine had a different comparison to make - to her, the story was uncomfortably reminiscent of the treatment received by many autistic children, being forced to give up everything that comes naturally to them and conform to other people's expectations of their behaviour. both of these reads were completely legitimate.

you don't have to have an english or literature degree to understand this concept. think back to your early experiences writing essays in school, based on a book you'd been assigned to read. think about your teachers telling you: make a point, and then use evidence to convince me. this is one of the most basic ways that we engage with fiction on an academic level. and when it comes to fandom, we don't even have to go that far! while many fans love to put a lot of thought into their interpretations, headcanons, fanfics, meta, and other fanworks, many don't. there are a lot of reasons for this, from wanting to see yourself reflected in the characters you love to simply having fun shaking things up. you don't have to justify your interpretations (or your reinterpretations). you're allowed to play in the sandbox just because it's a good time.

a lot of us, when we really love a story or character, get incredibly passionate about our interpretations. that's normal and understandable. and so, naturally, we're also going to find people whose interpretations fly in the face of our own. but people who disagree with you are not inherently wrong. people are incredibly complex, which means two things: one, real people are going to have all kinds of complex factors affecting how they read a story, and two, there are virtually infinite ways to interpret fictional people when the information you're working with is necessarily limited. when they're working from the same baseline information, two people can have two wildly different understandings of a character and neither of them is objectively more correct than the other.

(this intersects a lot with conversations about coding and authorial intent. both of these are their own huge discussions that I'm not going to get into in detail here. both are important in their own ways, but when you cut down to the bone, the basic truth remains that audience interpretations are still going to go in all directions and that's still allowed. even when you're working exclusively with interpretations that aim to be entirely canon-compliant, neither coding nor authorial intent is the same thing as explicit canon. yes, it's still crappy to erase heavy queer-coding [for example] in media where that's the best representation that creators can offer us; that's a matter of social issues intersecting with fiction, which is another huge discussion of its own. but even what qualifies as 'heavy' coding is going to vary from one audience member to the next.)

for me, this incredible variety of interpretation is one of fandom's greatest strengths! I have made friends with people whose character interpretations are incredibly different from mine, or whose favourite ships are the ones I can't stand, or who hated stories I loved. I think trading these ideas, discussing the differences in our readings of the same subject matter, is so interesting. learning how someone reads a character or storyline, and why they read it that way, is always really illuminating for me! discussing our differing interpretations can be such an interesting way to learn about other people's points of view and broaden your own perspective. I so strongly encourage it. embrace the passion you share, rather than starting arguments about things that ultimately don't have much in the way of impact on your real-world existence. for sure, yeah, block the weirdo who romanticises an abusive ship that gives you the creeps. but when you meet someone who headcanons your favourite character to be a completely different sexuality than you do, or who ships your brotp romantically... there's huge potential there for some really engaging conversations.

this isn't a manifesto. the topic of fan interpretation is enormous, and includes so many smaller discussions, and intersects with so many other issues. I'm not claiming to have covered all the bases here. I just really encourage you all to accept that there are no Objectively Correct Opinions - that's not how opinions work! you know that, I know you do! and when you do come across work that's just so far from your interpretation that you can't stand it... just don't engage. scroll on past. block the poster if you want. no one is making you look at fanwork that you don't like. you are not obligated to interact with the people creating that work in any way. please, for the love of god, curate your own fandom experience. someone doodling fanart for a ship that doesn't jibe with you isn't hurting you. you have the power to remove it from in front of your eyes and go find something else you like better. go engage with things that do interest you!! you will be happier for it!!!

[whatyouwantedmetosee]

Thoughts on some Jack X Joey??

Boy howdy do I have a lot of thoughts!! (I actually love this ship, whoops.)

Disclaimer: a lot of my thoughts are from before the Illusion of Living, but now that I know the IOL stuff, I can’t not factor that in to my thoughts. So, various slight spoilers for the Illusion of Living under the cut!

Secondary Disclaimer: My information about the books is via other people, so I may have slight information wrong. This is a lot of headcanons anyway so please excuse any inaccuracies!

(It’s also honestly a lot of rambling character analysis rather than ship thoughts, so I guess if you want to hear my TED Talk on Jack Fain’s personality that’s in here too.)

SO! Obviously this one isn’t exactly like... an Obvious Pairing. But it’s one I think could, theoretically, be pretty nice.

First off: So like, I’m honestly just, gobsmacked, the amount of fuel for my sorta niche ship that showed up in the Illusion of Living? Joey Drew and Jack Fain have coffee and chat, that’s cUTE??? (Also apparently the audiobook puts weird emphasis on Joey enjoying their... meetings, which IDK, it’s probably intended as a like “haha yeah it’s a work meeting even tho we’re actually just having coffee for most of it” but tOO BAD I MADE IT QUEER NOW.

Anyway, on to actual thoughts, which I have split into mini chapters because I am physically incapable of being succinct:

Part One: The Accidental TED Talk About Jack Fain (Or At Least How I View Him)

A lot of my thoughts on this ship are affected by how I view Jack as a character, I think? I see him as someone who’s soft, and nice, yeah, and overall very chill, but I don’t really see him as a pushover, really? I feel like, Jack’s a character who can tell what people want, and then sorta... gently steer them in a direction, rather than just going with what they want.

So like, with Sammy - Sammy is real direct and blunt and rude, and somehow Jack manages to work with him well. This is actually sorta how I view that one IOL scene where Jack interrupts Joey and Sammy’s Gay Reminiscing:tm: - he sees Sammy getting off track and distracted, and decides to step in to keep things back on topic.

I feel like this probably is also how they’re able to work together so well, because Jack can tell when he needs to step in to keep Sammy on track, while also understanding how Sammy wants him to act and doing what Sammy wants him to do. (And as a side note, I honestly feel like Sammy probably knows this and appreciates it? Helps keep things running smoothly. Probably why he isn’t as much of an ass to Jack as he can be to other people.)

Basically, I see him as having a pretty good skill at like, working out people’s systems, working out how to please them, while also coming to compromises that help him also get his point across.

I also feel like, I’m not sure how much of Jack’s Big Attention Seeking Energy is him, so much as him filling a role to do what needs to be done? I don’t think he necessarily hates it, but like... Working with Sammy, someone has to be doing that role. He knows how to work with people, work an audience, get the attention the duo needs to be successful the way Sammy can’t. (Sammy outright doesn’t want attention, but alas, that doesn’t really pay the bills.)

But then, when you hear about Jack at JDS, he tends to get away from everything and be more chill - and I read that as more like, now that he doesn’t need to draw attention for his job, he’s able to settle down a little in that regard. Writing is a lot different from pleasing a crowd, so he doesn’t need to maintain that persona, and can slip into more comfortable habits, get some more peace as he works on writing.

(Also, wrt the one audiolog he has about not being too bothered about that one award being in Joey’s name - I feel like, if he doesn’t actually want the attention so much, I could see him... like, legitimately just not minding it that much, actually, rather than being passive aggressive about it or anything.)

Anyway!!! Those are my thoughts on Jack, so now we can move onto...

Section B: Jack/Joey? On This Blog??? It’s More Likely Than You Think 

So then, with regards to like... shipping with Joey. Note that we’re now sliding into even more headcanon-y territory.

I feel like at the very beginning, Joey probably misreads Jack a lot. He’s still kinda expecting that showy, charismatic, crowd-pleasing persona, the like... what he reads as wanting attention. (Which, true, Jack was seeking that out - because the job required it, not because he, specifically, wanted it.)

So, what he gets is a bit more of a surprise - a bit more chill, calmer. But, he still has that ability to work with people, even though he’s not using it on a crowd.

From the sounds of things in IOL, it seems like, the meeting stuff between Joey and the Music Dept. Boys goes pretty smoothly... but like, I get the impression that later on in the studio’s timeline, things go slightly less well between Sammy and Joey. (Stares at the conspicuous lack of Jack Fain in DCTL. Hm.)

But yeah, I like to imagine, Jack in meetings with Joey and Sammy, helping like... smooth things over more when changes need to be made or the music isn’t working out quite how Joey wants it to. Jack knows enough about Sammy to know how to appeal to his side of things, while also compromising enough with Joey’s side of things, incorporating the changes Joey wants but suggesting ways it could work better, helping tone down Joey’s helpful suggestions that wouldn’t work as well as he thinks they would.

I’m a big fan of the concept of like... Joey originally has a big crush on Sammy, he’s so mysterious, what’s going on in his head, etc. - but then, a lot more slowly, he gets to know Jack better, spends more time with him, slowly works out how Jack actually works. Learns to appreciate that more subdued charisma he has, the way he can tell how people work and work with it.

And then, it’s just nice to imagine a nicer more chill Joey ship. Have some nice meetings, get coffee together, casually make out in Joey’s office. That’s some good content.

(It also works nicely because I feel like... IDK, I don’t think Jack would just put up with Joey’s Being Joey, I don’t think he’s that much of a pushover. So like, IDK, in this scenario Joey learns to be a bit less of a jerk, maybe things don’t go so bad. Or, I mean. Stares some more at the conspicuous lack of Jack Fain in DCTL. Hmmmmm.) 

...

Also like, this is also good opportunity for a Joey/Sammy/Jack OT3, give Joey the best of both worlds. Jack cares a lot about Sammy, Joey is infatuated with Sammy and slowly grows to understand Jack, Jack helps Sammy and Joey clash slightly less and work together better, etc. It’s a different ship, but also good.

Act III: Okay But What If I Added Some Angst? Eh? Any Takers???

So, first up, consider: this very good post of Jack Fain thoughts by @inkyvendingmachine. Now hear me out:

Jack Fain, who (through whatever nonsense) ended up with his office nice and tucked away in the sewers where he has some peace and quiet. Due to Some Reason, be it poor memory on Joey’s part or unclear instruction when he demanded that the Ink Demon be locked up...

The Ink Demon gets locked away in the Infirmary... but, unbeknownst to Joey, Jack is still in there. Things don’t go well. Joey realises, and...

Well.

Add in some previous Jack/Joey shipping, and Joey suddenly realising what he’s caused, unintentionally or no. Lead that into either Joey losing it and turning to his weird ink nonsense, or Joey going further than he meant in attempt to somehow reverse what he did.

Throw in some additional: Jack is no longer there to help balance out Joey’s Joeyness. He’s also no longer there to help out with Sammy and Joey interactions - a Sammy who can tell something’s happened with Jack, but Joey sure isn’t going to just tell him what happened, and that certainly isn’t helping things here.

...

maybe i put something like that in my requirement au. just a little. its fine. i lov to cause myself pain

[three--rings]

Hey so I love your meta and I saw that on post/615176025033277440/i-keep-seeing-people-complaining-about-wei-wuxian you mentioned that the MDZS characters live in "a world where gender concepts are quite different to our own". I was wondering why you think that since imo MDZS seemed to follow the normal traditional super strict gender roles (i.e. Cloud Recesses keeping men and women separate)

So, in the post you’re references I was replying to someone who specifically said she sees WWX as genderqueer or genderfluid.  So what I immediately meant is that while I absolutely support anyone’s headcanons to that effect, I think applying modern terminology about gender and sexuality to past historical periods is tricky.

As to whether MDZS gender roles are the same what we think of as “traditional” gender roles in the West.   That’s a SUPER SUPER complicated topic.  And since I haven’t made a study of gender in either Ancient China or wuxia fictional worlds, I am not the person to fully explore that topic.

What I AM educated about is gender and sexuality in the 19th century in Western Society (and specifically England and the US).  And I can tell you that 200 years ago or 150 years ago, people had VERY different ideas about gender and sexuality than we do currently.  What we tend to think of as “traditional” gender presentation is really a 20th century calcification and creation.  Peaking post-WWII. 

And what I’m specifically talking about is not so much societal roles for men and women, which have always varied WIDELY by time period, location, and especially class, but gender presentation and what it means to be masculine or feminine.  And the intersection of gender presentation and sexual practice/orientation.  Sexual orientation as distinct from gender identity or simply sexual practice is a fairly modern creation, mostly within the last 200 years. 

So in general, when we’re talking about a fictional world based loosely on China from hundreds to a thousand or more years ago...it’s really, really hard to proscribe any rules.  If you want to reflect modern gender and sexual identities in that setting, 100% rock on and have fun with it.  But also I feel like it’s important to acknowledge that the “reality” would likely be much messier and more confusing to modern sensibilities.  And if anyone claims to “know” how gender should be presented in that context (especially for explicitly queer people) I have Big Doubt.