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mysterypond · 3 years

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HxH Pride

One of the reasons Hunter x Hunter draws so many queer fans is because a lot of the characters are heaily hinted at being lgbtqia+. So, let’s examine some of these options. I’ll break it down into “Basically Canon”, “Heavily Implied” and “Popular Headcanons”.

Basically Canon: Pretty much everyone in fandom agrees about this based on textual evidence.

Heavily Implied: More than half of fandom agrees about this based on textual evidence, not just headcanon.

Popular Headcanons: there isn’t much canon basis however a great deal of the fandom does subscribe to it.

This is going to be a long post so I will put it under the cut.

Note: This post is based off my own interpretation of the manga as well as popular opinions I have come across. I am not claiming any of these characters to be 100% canonically queer as none of them have explicitly said they are.

Basically Canon

Hisoka. While there’s debate if he’s Bi, Pan, Gay, or some other form of Queer in general, pretty much everyone reads him this way. Ignoring the elephant in the room, his desire to fight Chrollo borders on having a crush on him, and by now even if you haven’t read the manga, it’s common knowledge that he’s engaged to Illumi. Some of the speculation on his sexuality comes from if he’s attracted to women or not, since the only lady we really see him interact with is Machi. But I think it’s safe to say he’s some form of mlm. 🏳️‍🌈

Alluka, Killua’s little sister, is read by most fans as a trans girl. Of the family, most of them refer to Alluka with either male pronouns, or as an object, depending on if it’s the sub or the dub. Killua is the only one who refers to her as a girl, stating this to his butlers after they misgender Alluka. Needless to say, if Alluka sees herself as a girl, she’s a girl. 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

Kite’s current gender identity is unknown. What we do know, though, is that when they talk to the Koala, they use feminine personal pronouns, but when they talk to Gon, they use masculine personal pronouns. This could be because Kite was speaking as the people (Reina, with the Koala, and male Kite, with Gon) to whoever they were talking with, or it could be because they are some form of genderfluid. Because of the combination of body and mind, and the fact we haven’t quite seen them talk and interact more after this, I think it’s safe to say no matter which way Kite swings on the gender spectrum, if any, they fall under the trans umbrella. 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

Heavily Implied

Illumi doesn’t have as many flags as the other characters, however he is canonically engaged to Hisoka. When this chapter was released, due to Illumi’s personality and functionality, many people suspected that he was only engaged to Hisoka as a “joke” or for convinience sake. Illumi is not seen to make jokes within the context of the manga. He does have a give-and-take relationship with Hisoka, though, which I do think has some merit. I would say, as he is engaged to Hisoka, he is either mlm or he is on the ace spectrum and has a queerplatonic relationship with him. 🏳️‍🌈

Neferpitou’s gender has been up for speculation by fans for a long time. Before Killua compared Pitou to a “mother” during the palace invasion, many fans read Neferpitou as male. There are several scenes in the manga where it appears Pitou has breasts, but in a lot, they don’t. More confusion comes from the fact that Pitou uses masculine personal pronouns. Suffice to say, Pitou has an ambiguous gender, and in the anime world that historically points to “nonbinary.... but we can’t outright say that because censors”. That doesn’t stop a great deal of the fandom from reading them as male, or female, as people will have differing opinions on how to read their gender. Needless to say, they’re at the very least gender nonconforming, which in my book makes them queer. 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

Killua is heavily implied to have a crush on Gon. One of the most famous scenes surrounding this in the manga is when he tells Meleoron that he and Gon should do a lover’s suicide together. A lot of his behavior, especially in the Chimera Ant Arc comes across as him having a crush on Gon and not knowing how to deal with it. He frequently waxes poetic about his friend, such as in the “Gon, you are light” scene. There’s also a scene in the manga where he gives Gon the rainbow diamond greed island card (If you propose with it, she’s bound to say yes!) as a gift. Proposal... rainbow... Killua, you’re too obvious. 🏳️‍🌈

Kurapika is another character whose gender is up for speculation, some by fans, but some by characters within the show. He’s even shown crossdressing in one scene. He is also one of the only main characters never seen shirtless. Whether he’s just a feminine guy, a trans man, or nonbinary, there’s something queer about his gender, and that’s enough for me to say it’s heavily implied 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

If his rainbow wings weren’t enough to convince you, Shaiapouf has a very strong devotion to the king, in ways that are different than some of the other royal guards. He seems jealous of Komugi, who is the closest person to Meruem. Many fans have speculated that he had a one sided romantic attraction to the king, however, some others have argued that it was programmed into him because of his role as a royal guard. Needless to say, I think the fact that you can refer to him as “the gay butterfly” and everyone knows who you’re talking about is enough to add him to the list 🏳️‍🌈

Uvogin literally kisses Shalnark. Need I say more? 🏳️‍🌈

Popular Headcanons

Kalluto is another character that has an ambiguous gender, but as far as we know, he identifies as male. He does cross dress though, so some popular headcanons are that he’s nonbinary or trans. 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

We know Bisky is attracted to men, as seen when she oogles Hisoka by the pond and when she reads her raunchy magazines when Gon and Killua train. But why make Cookie-Chan a hot younger woman who gives massages unless she was attracted to women as well! She could have easily made Cookie-Chan a dude, but did not. Bisky certainly puts the Bi in Bisky. 🏳️‍🌈

This list wouldn’t be complete if I didn’t mention THE hunter himself, Gon Freeccs. Due to the prevalence of Killugon in the fandom, many people headcanon that he has a crush on Killua back. Though there’s a separate side of the fandom that actually suggests he’s potentially aroace. Though he has “experience” with women on whale island, he doesn’t come across as interested in romance at all, and only goes on a date with Palm because she was his friend. He even mentions that he wasn’t friends with the one other kid on the island because “she was a girl” so likely didn’t have a crush on her either. 🏳️‍🌈

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bi-sapphics · 2 years

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lesser-known terms/labels for bisexuals: a review

look, i know what i said about hating the fact that twitter coins all these useless terms to keep bi sapphics from using butch/femme without using doe/stag, but i have to admit that some of them actually kinda rock....... and some of them (expectedly) kinda suck. ALSO THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY OF THEM JUST STOP TRYING AND STICK WITH BUTCH/FEMME OR DOE/TOMCAT/STAG DEAR LORD. I BEG. YOUR COINED SET WILL NOT BECOME FAMOUS AND EARN REWARDS.

1.) to start, solis/lunith/saros are based on the sun & moon, which y’all know i’m such a sucker for the dynamic of, though i’m not a fan of the saros flag being all-blue even though it’s my favorite color. i don’t know why. since given the other two it can easily have a more androgynous context than a masculine one (i.e. “boy = blue”), but to be fair it’s started to grow on me.

2.) similarly, i like solyn/lunyn/mercyn just as much, except that my preferences are switched in that i love the flags much more than the terms. green for androgyny is actually pretty clever imo and the lunyn flag is GORGEOUS and the solyn flag has a color palette that works perfectly for a lot of my favorite characters. they sound pretty, don’t get me wrong, but they’re just weird words to me (and that’s fine!!).

3.) but then you have this “one presentation type for each gender” system that follows the infamous tumblr animal format (with a mixture of pretty and ugly flags, just to mention it) and it just gets complicated. not to mention that i actually dislike this replacement set more than the original, which should say something considering just how much bi sapphics have expressed their hatred for calling themselves deers or other wild forest animals (especially due to implied antiblackness). i mean... moths, beetles, butterflies, and mantises for nonbinary folk? really?? are you just oblivious to all the infantilizing stereotypes that are applied to (usually afab) nonbinary people? and of how much other trans people hate that for us too? i feel like that’s self-explanatory but whatever, if twitter finds that more acceptable than bi history being “lesbophobic” then i’m not gonna prohibit them lmfao. i do actually like the flower system for bi mlm/nblm though, i’ll give op that, and although i’d probably choose different color palettes for the bi wlw/nblw flags due to them reminding me of your classic cartoon-alien-themed children’s outer space playground, they’re not bad. i like celestial body themes. dunno why “moon” and “star” aren’t flipped in meaning, though.

4.) moving on from that rant though, i’d just like to say as a nblm person that these cloud-themed terms are not bad. they’re alright. i do like them better than knight/mage/druid (linked in the above paragraph), which is what they were designed to replace. the corresponding flags can be found here in this thread below this tweet and i personally have a bit of bias in favor of them because i have a preference for blues, grays, and desaturated colors. “cumulous” bi for masculine men, though....... no criticism, i just find that an odd choice in a funny lighthearted way. :)

5.) all i have to say about these three replacements coined for bi sapphics to replace doe/tomcat/stag are that the terms are nice, i wouldn’t use them but they’re pretty enough, but 2/3 of the flags (excluding “forte”) are just plain ugly as hell and i’m not gonna sugarcoat it. sorry, i don’t like them and that’s my opinion. no hate to op but dear god.

6.) this more simplified insect set for (especially nonbinary) bi sapphics basically just gets the same judgement as #3′s moth/beetle/butterfly/mantis since everything was already said in that paragraph. the flags do look nice to be fair, although the butterfly one looks eerily similar to the eclipsis/eclipse bisexual flag, which i see as more of an aesthetic combining the sun & moon rather than a presentation identity.

7.) lastly, i’ve already given my opinion on the damme/tomme pairing in that reblogged post considering they’re the stupidest copycats of butch/femme i’ve ever seen. while i might cringe at some of the options in this post i think i’m gonna have to judge this set as the one i genuinely dislike the post. it’s the biggest “fuck you” ever to bi sapphics coming from fellow bi sapphics and i’m not changing my mind. i hate them. like, imaging calling yourself a “damme bi” and the response is just “damn bi wtf??” it’s just silly.

like i said, there were a lot, and none of them actually really hold any weight or history that seem appealing enough for me. maybe i can adopt solis/saros and solyn on the side, and nimbus when i feel more man-aligned on those rarer days, but that’d be it. please stop embarrassing yourselves is all i have to say to end this post. :/

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indigoelegy · 2 years

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usamaru furuya is underappreciated by people talking about lgbt manga and i’m here to change that

hi! if you like manga which merely contains LGBTQ+ characters going about their day and are treated with the humanity and sensitivity they deserve, then these are the recs for you. usamaru furuya himself has never expressed being lgbt at any point, however he does have a very nuanced and personal understanding of lgbt issues, so take that one as you will….. I’ll be including works that are only partially translated into English in this list as well as unfortunately, not many of his works have been localised in full, and even less officially. (Please note! I am a cis lesbian and Furuya’s work deals pretty exclusively with mtf trans people and mlm relationships and sentiments, neither of which are things I have direct lived experience with - however, based on my general experiences as an lgbt person and especially as somebody who reads a whole lot of lgbt manga, I feel he handles these subjects well. your experience may be different and that is totally fine, and I apologise if I ever word anything incorrectly in this post, but I just wanted to put this out there bc Furuya is my favourite mangaka 💕)

PLEASE keep in mind that due to the nature of some of these manga, they aren’t for everyone. I will do my best to list trigger warnings where applicable.

Litchi Hikari Club & Bokura no Hikari Club

**PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS ONE ESPECIALLY IS NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART.**

TWs: animal harm, depictions of underage sexual activity (not pornographic, and used for a purpose), a lot of gore and violence, death, sexual assault, child sexual abuse (both implied and shown. it’s only shown once but it is very upsetting so please tread very carefully), Nazi imagery and references, and use of the rising sun flag.

What’s in there?: MLM ‘couple’ (not a healthy one, mind you), and a trans girl.

If you aren’t familiar with this manga, I won’t be able to describe the plot in a way that’s meaningful to you - but one thing I promise is that despite the laundry list of tws and the incredibly shocking imagery used in this manga, all of it is used for a purpose. The reading order is Litchi first, and then Bokura (the prequel) afterwards. This manga has points to make on several topics, the most prevalent of which I can only describe as authority and corruption, the effects of extreme poverty and neglect on the young people who experience it, and the search for love and purpose (as well as the consequences that can come from not being properly prepared for or understanding of sexual relationships). The trans character is an example of the phrase ‘coding is canon’ - while she never outright turns to the camera and expresses her transness, it’s very much there. Overall, if you can stomach it, this is a fascinating series, and I can’t do it justice by simply describing it. But once again, please be warned that this is overall an extremely dark and depressing read and is by no means a light, fun read with cute LGBT representation. The representation is there but it’s underpinned by an incredibly dark backdrop and the main relationship, be warned, is not a healthy or positive one. A very good starting point to get a feel for this series is the 2016 live action movie! It isn’t perfect on account of some things not perfectly translating into film and some cuts they had to make for time, but it removes an unnecessary and triggering scene altogether, making it a good place to put your feelers out.

Litchi Hikari Club is a read for when you feel prepared to explore the depressing darkness of humanity left to run amok - but it’s a wonderful and rich read nonetheless. Please take care when reading this one though and heed the trigger warnings given.

Genkaku Picasso

TWs: honestly this is a very light read, so I struggle to think of any, but the most prominent one that springs to mind is death and grief - it’s very prevalent in the story. There are some jokes centred around a fujoshi character, but there is no actual fetishisation of MLM in there.

What’s in there?: A trans woman! (Fully, 100% canon. It says so directly in the text.)

Genkaku Picasso is a very light read compared to Litchi (anything is a light read compared to Litchi), and it explores a myriad of issues that Furuya explained as ‘real worries experienced by me and my peers’ in their teen years - the main character has struggles with grief which underpin the entire story, it explores the difficulties and anxieties that come with first relationships, and it also explores gender dysphoria. This isn’t necessarily the most realistic depiction of how coming out in a Japanese highschool would go - but as I understand, some people prefer stories which suspend the reality of something like that for a while. If you’re looking for a light read which takes place in a world where acceptance is the norm, then this manga is for you!

Teiichi no Kuni

**This work is not fully translated, and the information I’m giving is based on the first 19.5 chapters, as well as some offhand translation work done by my friend Mari.** (love you mari also she’s one of the admins on our blog @ litchilalitchi which you should definitely check out if you happen to like litchi hikari club 😇)

TWs: Suicide attempt, a few uses of slurs, and a lot of usages of the rising sun flag. I believe there may also be an implication of sexual assault at one point. Some homophobia and transphobia is touched on in chapters yet to be translated.

What’s in here?: More than one (potentially) gender nonconforming characters, and a whole bunch of extremely MLM feelings. None of the relationships in this manga are 100% canon or explicit (except for one, I think), this is more akin to the way something like Kakegurui is (without the fetishisation).

Teiichi no Kuni is an absolute riot won’t lie. I love this manga. This isn’t so much serious LGBT rep or anything as described above - but it is fun to read and watch these people dance around each other fruitily. Since this is only 1/3 translated (19.5/57 chapters) it’s difficult for me to really comment at this stage what the overwhelming message or themes are supposed to be. This is in the same sort of realm as Genkaku Picasso where homophobia doesn’t exist (although homophobia/transphobia, as well as potentially compulsory heterosexuality, are touched upon in some chapters that are yet to be translated in a storyline with one of the GNC characters). This was very fun to read bc it is so completely outrageous that’s all. No notes. There’s also a movie but I haven’t seen that so I can’t comment there.

Amane†Gymnasium

**There is only a single translated chapter of this work. This is once again based on my own observations as somebody who owns this manga (but who cannot read Japanese) and Mari’s help and dedication)**

TWs: Suicide, sexual assault/coercion, bullying

What’s in here?: MLM little guys, and an intersex character that is described unfortunately using the H-word (Furuya makes the distinction between this term and the actual condition of intersex, and that word is used for a reason).

I don’t want to talk too much about this manga as I don’t know when it will be translated, but if it is at any point in the future (wink nudge) then this can be a guide. Amane Gymnasium deals with some very real and personal but uniquely represented themes about writing cringe fiction to cope with having difficult circumstances, and the main character’s journey of overcoming her past.

Other Notable Mentions

- ‘Indigo Elegy’ (Chapter 7 of the anthology Happiness): Two main characters in that are pretty gay. It has themes about art and imagination, and working in harmony with another person. No notes! (PLEASE do not read the rest of happiness as some of it is almost purely eroguro nonsense and I can’t recommend it) (my blog is named after it!)

- The Music of Marie: not LGBT in the slightest actually, but it does present, for one scene, a society which has alternative gender norms in a way which treats them as completely normal. This manga is from 2001 so I would say that’s pretty cool.

Overall, it is pretty difficult for me to describe the very understanding vibe that Usamaru Furuya’s works have, and I would recommend reading them for yourself - but please take heed of the trigger warnings, and please be aware that some of his work (especially the early stuff) is eroguro and very shocking and graphic. In my opinion, Genkaku Picasso is an excellent starting point to what I mean when I say his style is very touching and human. Furuya is my favourite mangaka but I barely ever see his works mentioned when people are talking about non-yaoi/yuri LGBT manga.

#manga #lgbt manga #usamaru furuya #manga recommendation #manga recs #lgbtq+ manga recs #lgbtq+ manga

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thetrashiestoftrash · 3 years

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If you're making things based on pride flags, I have a really simple request that enriches the entire queer community, which is this: include gay men.

I know cis gays already get all the attention, but hear me out on this. This isn't about hogging the spotlight.

I'll disclose that I have a personal stake. I'm gay and transmasc, which means straight people think I'm straight, and if I'm lucky, queer people think I'm a lesbian, but mostly I get "ally." I'm sure there are others to whom it is important to express that they are, specifically, male-aligned and attracted to the same.

But to a broader point, gay men don't own the rainbow. The rainbow pride flag is for everyone. But I see so many icon sets, and enamel pins, and so forth that use the rainbow as shorthand for "gay male only," sometimes explicitly. And I've seen some people say they didn't want to wear the rainbow because they're ace or bi or trans and not gay.

The designs I see most often currently are this one by @ask-pride-color-schemes

And this similar but simplified flag by @gayflagblog

I love these. I do think we should try to move away from just doing colored stripes for everything, but these look nice, and they complement the lesbian flag.

I know that making pride flag items isn't an effortless endeavor, and sometimes it just doesn't work out (I recall Sock Dreams struggled to get enough different shades of pink to make lesbian pride socks, and the results were less than ideal). You probably can't have all the flags, especially as more of them keep getting made, so at some point you have to draw the line on what's feasible and important to you. But give some thought to the MLM flag.

If you have another favorite flag for gay men, I'd love to see it! And I'd appreciate if you could get the word out.

#downstreaming bonus for all mlm you recruit

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lgbt-stims · 4 years

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fairy flags!

this flag is for mlm/nblm and trans women who reclaim the term fairy, which is a derogatory term when referring to us. this flag is inclusive of cis mlm, camab nb/transfem m/nblm, transmasc/trans man m/nblm, and trans women regardless of sexuality (and was made with camab nb m/nblm especially in mind since we tend to use terms like this as almost genders!).

the first one is based off of more cutesy and feminine ideas of fairies, and the second is based off of more nature based ideas of fairies! theres no rules to which one you can use or anything, i just loved the idea of both.

dont use them for yourself if youre not m/nblm or a trans woman, or if you fit my dni, and please dont make content with them unless youre m/nblm or a trans woman (its ok to rb this and rb content using it if youre not part of those groups ofc). this is a derogatory term thats being reclaimed.

#fairy #mlm #mlm pride #mlm flag #gay #gay pride #gay flag #gay mlm #bi #bi pride #bi mlm #trans #trans pride #transfeminine #transfem #transfem pride #pride #lgbt #lgbt pride #lgbt flags #mod jen

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tilthedayidice · 3 years

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It should be noted that theres a BLUE MLM flag and a Teal+Lavender MLM flag. The Blue one is generally shunned but the Teal+Lavender one was created by a Gay Trans Man

Hiya, I'm going to use your ask to answer several at once and deliver my decision if that's okay!!

Starting with your of course!

-I had a little trouble finding that version do you think you can send me a link? Or send it in as a request so I can make a palette with it as well?

Next to this Anon:

"Hi, just so you know, a lot of the green blue mlm flag discourse is based in a lot misinformation and sometimes even outright homophobia (like claiming that gay men shouldn't have there own flag)

There is a post going around that explains how the information that anon is going off is wrong.

Also some people have been claiming that the flag is lesbophobic because the creator supposedly supports m-spec lesbians. I haven't seen any information about whether the creator actually does, but if you support mspec lesbians then you might want people to clarify what they actually mean when they say the creator is lesbophobic.

You don't have to publish this ask, I don't want you to get targeted for engaging in this discourse. I can also send you the link to the post that explains the history of that flag, I just want to stay anonymous because I don't want people to give me trouble for engaging."

-I completely understand wanting to stay anon!! It's all good, Every time I do pride post I get some sort of message along these lines so it's all good! I've read the posts you're talking about I think, I really appreciate your input, I've seen a real 50/50 split on the flags use so I'm still very confused but it all helps!

Anon Numero Dos how ya doin tonight?

"Re the blue flag: The truscum confusion comes in because a truscum STOLE the design and reuploaded it from someone else, and that post received like 40k notes while the original designer and their post received only 8. That said it does feel like a carbon copy of the rejected pink flag and kiiiinda does still lend in the 'blue is for BOYS and pink is for the GIRLS' kind of mentality which... is weird."

-With this ask I'm going to give my final verdict, I've decided I'm going to allow this flag to stay, there are still many people who use the flag as well as people who don't support the GB version will from now on be tagged "gb mlm" you are more than welcome to request the other flags and in fact I insist you do!!!!

If there's ever a version of a flag you'd like tagged because of iffy origins please feel free to ask!!!!

#ask #pride dice ask #gbmlm ask

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groovy-rat-man · 3 years

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Its pride month so I'm gonna be rating some pride flags based on what flavor I think they'd be!! (this is just my opinion, besides, color is just pigment of our imagination)

first up we have a more recent flag (and one of my favorites!) now flavor wise the rainbow segment reminds me of those big spiral lollipops you only see in cartoons that you KNOW just taste like sugar and food coloring, and be brown and black would certainly be chocolate flavored (the trans portion I'll get into later)

overall, a visually appealing flag but an absolute cluster fuck regarding flavor 4/10

Next up we have the "L" in LGBTQ+, I LOVE the flavor this gives off!! It would probably taste like those orange shakes they have at arby's, but you're wearing flavored lipstick while drinking it so it stains the straw and makes it taste just the slightest bit off

I want an orange milkshake now 9.5/10

Now we've got mlm's (NOT pyramid schemes) I'm not entirely sure if this is they correct flag for gay men but I know its similar. You just KNOW that this would be like chewing a bunch of different flavored mint gums at once! Do I even have to explain?

How It Feels To Chew Five Gum 8/10 Stimulate Your Senses

mmmmmmmgmhmhmh berry blast baby

mom, I need to tell you something. I'm mixed berry sorbet 7.5/10

DEFINITELY cotton candy flavored. It wouldn't taste like cotton candy mind you, just cotton candy flavored.

it really, really depends on the quality of the flavoring 3-7.5/10 (I've never been a big fan of cotton candy flavored stuff, so take that with a grain of salt)

this is the most common thing I found when I searched for a queer flag and I think it has the same vibe as the first flag. Lots of colors, lots of flavors. But I think this one just embraces the chaos more which greatly impacted my vibe check. I'd imagine that it would taste like eating a bunch of Halloween candy, not even taking all of the wrappers off. This is the month of LGBTQ+ pride and (in my opinion) this is the flag of LGBTQ+ gluttony.

Lemme tell ya I am HERE for it! 8.5/10

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dont you think I forgot the plus, I just don't want this post to be too long. If you have any comment or requests dont be afraid to tell me!!

Happy pride y'all!!!!

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caffeineandsociety · 3 years

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I think a lot of discussions of which queer people can reclaim which specific queer slurs would be a lot more productive if we looked at context over identity, like if you're calling yourself or someone else a faggot I care a lot less about whether you're actually mlm than I care about how easy it is for me to tell you mean it in a positive and/or sarcastic way

Look, we're seeing a resurgence of old-fashioned homophobic abuse online because this pure identity-based model makes it more acceptable for a gay teenager to throw his own internalized homophobia around at strangers in comments totally indistinguishable from the kind of abuse we got from our peers in high school because "I'm literally gay you should KNOW I mean it JOKINGLY see I have a rainbow flag in my carrd and everything it's JUST a JOKE bro" (which was also a popular excuse for just straight up racism about 10-15 years back and it turned out that was something neo-nazis were using to recruit the current wave, so just...sit with that for a sec...) than for a trans person to. You know. Actually positively call themself all the "bad" things someone called them in high school because "you're the wrong gender for that now you shouldn't want to do that if you're Really Trans that affected you differently because you weren't REALLY what they were calling you and and and--"

It's really Not Great and ultimately it's just another tool of exclusionism, cishet society doesn't make neat distinctions between different queer identities the way some of you seem to think it does, most of us have been abused with a pretty wide selection of the same words, maybe worry more about HOW people navigate their relationship with that more than about WHO gets to navigate it in the first place

#gender #slurs

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gayflagblog · 3 years

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Plain Flag Poll Response Breakdown

This post is a breakdown of the data collected in the Plain Flag Poll [linked here] as of 5/5/2021. For the breakdown of the Symbol Flag Poll data please click here. Because I am concerned about the readmore breaking and the length of this post, it will not be put into the main tags.

All images are transcribed. (This post may be reblogged with additional data when more unique responses are collected, you’ll be able to see this in the notes)

Poll Info: Participants were asked to pick which flag from each “category” of proposal/variant they felt the most connected to, or which was simply their “favorite”. If they wanted to, they were also given an optional question in which to explain their choice from the previous section. At the end of the poll, participants were asked to pick a flag out of the overall selection based on the previous criteria (connection/favorite) and, optionally, explain their choice.

Overall, 54 unique responses were recorded.

Question #1

[ Image Description: A pie chart is shown. The question at the top is “Out of the ‘Original’ flag proposals, which is your favorite/which do feel the most connection to?”. The response data is 43.4% for “5-stripe simplified”, 39.6% for “Original”, 15.1% for “6-stripe simplified #2″, and 1.9% for “6-stripe Simplified #1″. ]

Participants who choose to explain their selection in Question 1b. responded with the following.

Participants who selected 5-stripe simplified (10 participants did not respond)

"easy to remember”

“simple with good color contrast, easy to replicate“

“I like that the teal/green and blue each have 2 stripes instead if one having more than other other. The original just feels like too many stripes”

“Most aesthetically pleasing and personal connection due to using it!“

“it's a good amount of stripes IMO. not too little, not too many. plus, it's an uneven number, so it feels symmetrical, too.“

“White is centered, more eye-catching contrast.“

“I prefer 5 stripe flags, I like the symmetry, 5 stripe is easier to draw, easier to make merch in, simpler, bolder, looks nicer to me. i also like to put the trans flag and other flags side by side and so it's nice for me when they have the same stripe number.”

“aesthetically it matches the trans flag with the 2 stripes above and below the white trans line and makes it look nice when used with the trans flag“

“There’s less stripes which stops the colours blending together in my eyes.“

“I generally prefer more compact flags. they're easier to replicate irl, like on merchandise, and are better for icons and edits online.“

“I think a part of pride flags should be simplicity and reproducibility. Too many stripes might be difficult to remember and reproduce.“

“I like either the original or the 5 stripe simplified; slightly prefer the 5 stripe simplified because it's more "readable" if that makes sense. Like if I was describing it I could say Its a flag made of ‘dark green, light green, white, light blue, and dark blue stripes’ vs ‘dark green... medium(?) green, lighter green...’.”

“I think this version is easier to be made in large scale.“

Participants who selected Original (10 participants did not respond)

“I think the symmetrical ones with the white stripe in the middle look most aesthetically pleasing!”

“I like the 7 stripe best, but the 5 stripe is good too. I don't like the 6 stripe designs because they are unbalanced“

“I love the mirroring and balance, as well as the fact it reminds me of old leather and bear flags. plus I kinda hate that there are so many five stripe flags, it feels like they’re all mirroring the trans flag. the five stripe ones are really abrupt in colour change as well, and having more than five stripes really sets this flag apart. other five stripe variant flags were rooted in art theft, so using this five stripe might encourage use of the others, which upsets me. I also like that it’s similar to the lesbian flag; like two sides of a coin!“

“I really like the original and also the blue/purple six stripe!! I just really love the blue on it and also odd numbers make me really happy so the 7 stripes just feel right to me.”

“absolutely hate asymmetry so definitely neither of the 6 stripe simplified flags. The 5 stripe simplified doesn't have enough / the right colors to convey the same thing the original does. The 5 stripe is duller and more shallow somehow.“

“I think the original is the best out of these, but I think the 6-stripe simplified (more green/teal) could work if you were able to keep the light blue stripe somehow, since i liked the symbolism of the light blue to purple transition but the top stripes in the 6-stripe simplified (more blue/purple) don't look too good. i think the white stripe is better as the 4th stripe not the 3rd.“

“I like the colour variation“

“I like the evenness, and I just like the look of the thinner stripes on the original in contrast to the 5 stripe simplified.”

“I feel it to be the most coherent and aesthetically pleasing.”

“I use both the original and the 5 striped version but I have a physical version of the original and I love being able to show the meaning behind the stripes“

“I feel a connection with the colors and I like the transition they make into white. I chose the original, but my second option would be the second 6-stripe version because it's more different to the lesbian flag and I feel less connected to the blue parts (not purple).“

Participants who selected 6-stripe simplified #2 [more green/teal] (3 participants did not respond)

"IMO the 6-stripe flags are much better to use to differentiate from the lesbian flag and to match other gay mlm flags (autistic gay, she/her gay, etc).”

“I prefer the 6 striped flag because then the flag doesn’t “look like a hue shifted lesbian flag” like so many people claim it to be. -J“

“I think it eliminates the "it's a recolor of the lesbian flag" argument as there is a stripe number difference, plus the placement of the white stripe looks more "pleasing" there !“

“I think the colors on the version with more green/teal are my favorite out of all of them, although i love them all! I like the greens.”

The one Participant who selected 6-stripe Simplified #1 [more blue/purple] did not respond.

Question #2

[ Image Description: A pie chart is shown. The question at the top is “Out of the ‘Warm’ flag proposals, which is your favorite/which do feel the most connection to? (proposal credit @undeadedits)”. The response data is 41.5% for “Warm Original”, 37.7% for “Warm 5-stripe Simplified”, 13.2% for “Warm 6-stripe Simplified #2 (More Teal)”, and 7.5% for “Warm 6-stripe Simplified #1 (More Purple)”. ]

Participants who choose to explain their selection in Question 2b. responded with the following.

Participants who selected Warm Original (17 participants did not respond)

“the greens and purples are really nice, plus same reasons above“ (see Q1, Response #3 of “Participants who selected Original”, shown above)

“same reason as above“ (see Q1, Response #5 of “Participants who selected Original”, shown above)

“Similar answer to before, though I do also like the 6 stripe simplified with more purple, as it makes the blue toned colours look nice. “ (see Q1, Response #8 of “Participants who selected Original”, shown above)

“honestly i just really like the Vibes this one gives off. :)“

“For the same reasons as before. I also prefer the warm versions of the flag because they make the purple more obvious.“ (see Q1, Response #11 of “Participants who selected Original”, shown above)

Participants who selected Warm 5-stripe Simplified (13 participants did not respond)

"I feel the 6-stripes original has a more solemn vibe and the mid-color gives a better blending feel. For the warm, the 5-stripes simplicity actually helps giving that softer vibe, and it helps the aesthetic.”

“simple to remember but this time better because it is warm :)“

“Most aesthetically pleasing- other options are too busy in my opinion“

“same reason as above“ (see Q1, Response #8 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

"Same as the other flag. Less stripes better.” (see Q1, Response #9 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

"For the same reasons.” (see Q1, Response #11 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

"I think this version is easier to be made in large scale.”

Participants who selected Warm 6-stripe Simplified #2 [More Teal] (4 participants did not respond)

"I dunno what draws me to the 4th option, but it just feels right to me. I think it fits :)”

(repeat of Q1, Response #1 of “6-stripe simplified #2″, shown above)

“Same as 1b, plus I also prefer the darker blue and three greens to the darker green and three blues cuz it feels more equal?? As if the white is a reeeeeaaaaally light blue. -J“

The 4 Participants who selected Warm 6-stripe #1 [More Purple], did not respond.

Question #3

[ Image Description: A pie chart is shown. The question at the top is “Out of the ‘Philadelphia’ flag proposals, which is your favorite/which do feel the most connection to?”. The response data is 24.5% for ‘Warm 5-stripe Philadelphia’, 22.6% for ‘Original Philadelphia ‘, 20.8% for ‘5-stripe Philadelphia’, 15.1% for ‘Warm Original Philadelphia’, 9.4% for ‘Alternative Original Philadelphia’, and 7.5% for ‘Alternative 5-stripe Philadelphia’. ]

Participants who choose to explain their selection in Question 3b. responded with the following.

Participants who selected Warm 5-stripe Philadelphia (8 participants did not respond)

"again it's simple/easy to remember and also warm colours >>>”

“Most aesthetically pleasing (but not a POC so my opinion carries no weight!)“

“again I hate asymmetry but the black and brown stripes look really really awkward when separated. the reason I chose the warm one is because it makes the color contrast easier on the eyes.“

“I prefer the brown stripes to the philly flag's black and brown stripes since the black stripe originally represented victory over aids, and tbh, the colors are much more appealing. as for stripe count, it's pretty much the same as above. the expanded flags are especially cumbersome when you add the two extra stripes on top.“

“I feel more connected to the warm flags and I think that 9 stripes are maybe too many.“

Participants who selected Original Philadelphia (10 participants did not respond)

“I’m not a fan of Philadelphia flags in general (I'm not in the US and it isn’t used in my country), but the original variant keeps the stripes in line with other Philadelphia designs. black stripe still might be an oof bc of the aids flag black stripe, but that’s not well known anyway”

“I think the original one with the inclusive stripes on top just feels much better. I like seeing the inclusive stripes on the top in their original colors, without any tints, so this one happens to be my favorite and I would definitely buy it.”

Participants who selected 5-stripe Philadelphia (7 participants did not respond)

"The original 5 stripe is my favorite of the flags, and adding two more stripes really makes the original flag look like a barcode haha”

“It's the most visually appealing, and easiest to look at, plus it mimics the original Philly Pride Flag in having the black and brown stripes before the regular stripes.“

“This version has the black and brown stripes at the top, which matches with the idea of black visibility and black representation.“

“For the same reasons, even tho there are more stripes, it's just the 5-stripes version (easy to remember) plus the two stripes for black and brown communities.“ (see Q1, Response #11 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

Participants who selected Warm Original Philadelphia (5 participants did not respond)

“The warmer browns go better with the overall tones I think”

“I don't really think I have an input since I'm white, but I just find it the most visually appealing“

“The warm allows the colours to blend more cohesively, where the original seems to contrast in an awkward way.”

Participants who selected Alternative Original Philadelphia (3 participants did not respond)

“The alt design of the “Philadelphia” flag feel more equal and less of being added on. -J“

“I just think it looks cool! the original Philadelphia is also really good.“

Participants who selected Alternative 5-stripe Philadelphia (3 participants did not respond)

“I like symmetry. i don't think my opinion matters much here bc I'm not BIPOC“

Question #4

[ Image Description: A pie chart is shown. The question at the top is “Out of the ‘Pink’ flag proposals, which is your favorite/which do feel the most connection to? (proposal credit @IanBlazquez)”. The response data is 62.3% for ‘Pink/Purple 5-stripe’ and 37.7% for Pink/Purple Original. ]

Participants who choose to explain their selection in Question 4b. responded with the following.

Participants who selected Pink/Purple 5-stripe (23 participants did not respond

“I think you see the trend it's easier to remember the layout of and stuff”

“I think all the 5 stripe flags look better than the 7+ ones as they're simpler and easier to look at“

“the 5 stripe simplified pretty much conveys the same thing as the original so i don't have much of a preference beyond it being simpler so it's a lot easier to process.“

“again, i like less stripes. don't like either of them very much though“

“same reason as above.“ (see Q1, Response #8 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

“For the same reasons, even tho I'm not a fan of this design overall, it reminds me too much a reversed genderqueer flag (if that's the purpose, I'm sorry and I understand it).“ (see Q1, Response #11 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

“I don't really like these but the 5 stripe is better“

“I think this version is easier to be made in large scale.“

“I think the pink/purple original might feel a little too similar to the lesbian pride flag, which people have felt uncomfortable with/ complained about before. so I would prefer the five stripe design for this one.“

“It is simpler and easier to reproduce.“

Participants who selected Pink/Purple Original (15 participants did not respond)

“I like the more carnation-y green, but this one is a bit eye-strain-y tbh”

“I don't have too much of a connection of either of them (they look a bit similar to the genderqueer flag IMO), but I have a slight preference for the seven-stripe one.“

“once again, odd numbers.... I think this is so pretty!!“

“While I would love a six striped flag (reasoning for this on 1b), I adore the seven striped flag. It almost feels more inclusive in a way, I guess? -J“

“Similar response to the previous Original type flags, nice thin stripes.”

Question #5

[ Image Description: A pie chart is shown. The question at the top is “Out of all of the above, which is your favorite/which do feel the most connection to?”. The response data is 28.3% for ‘5-stripe Simplified’, 26.4% for ‘Original Draft Proposal’, 17% for ‘Warm Original’, 9.4% for ‘Warm 5-stripe Simplified’, 7.5% for ‘6-stripe Simplified #2 (more green/teal)’, and 1.9% for ‘Warm 6-stripe Simplified #2 (More Teal)’, ‘5-stripe Philadelphia’, ‘Pink/Purple Original’, and ‘Warm 6-stripe Simplified #1 (More Purple)’. ]

Participants who choose to explain their selection in Question 4b. responded with the following.

Participants who selected 5-stripe Simplified (9 participants did not respond)

"I like the 5-stripe simplified one best as I feel it's the most aesthetically pleasing, and I feel its colours represent the gay community best out of all of them. I've also used it for a while so I feel a strong connection to it! <3″

“good amount of stripes + the color scheme that I'm most familiar with“

“same reason as above“ (see Q1, Response #8 of “5-stripe simplified”, shown above)

“I actually really like Ian's 5-stripe pink/purple iteration of the flag. the colors are pleasing and I like that there's a bit more variation in the stripes, but the pink triangle being part of the symbolism for the pink stripe makes me feel kinda weird. Jewish LGBT people have repeatedly expressed discomfort with gentiles using/claiming the pink triangle since it's holocaust imagery. I do like pink as a stripe color overall, though. it's just that point that makes me unwilling to use that particular design. I do think, overall, that i prefer the cool colors of the original design, and I'm a big fan of the symbolism there.“

“Definitely easy to reproduce, simple and relatable. Love it.“

“The less colours in a flag for me the better; It's easy to recognize among all the others! I would also add that I really like a version of the flag that uses the colours of the original without the darkest purple and green.“

Participants who selected Original Draft Proposal (10 participants did not respond)

“myself one as soon as pridenation started selling them, and it makes me feel really represented and appreciated when I see this flag anywhere. thank you for making it. “

“the original one just really captures my attention :)“

“It's the prettiest I guess? second choice would be the warm version of the original because it's a lot more purple which is nice.“

“Seeing this flag finally made me feel like I had my own flag! The original was the first one I saw, and I became attached to it. I tend to see the rainbow as an all encompassing flag for the LGBTQ, in contrast to people tending to see the rainbow as only for gay men.“

Participants who selected Warm Original (7 participants did not respond)

“As a gay man, I would probably use the warmer flags. They strike me as more friendly without straying too far from the more recognized variant. I'm also biased because, well, I'm a lowkey twink, and I like the pinkish undertones. Personally, I'm against any flag that looks unbalanced, where the white stripe seems "off". My second choice would be the pink & purple one. The history of the color pink is incredibly important.”

“I prefer the warm colors because they emphasize the purple and I feel more connection to purple than to blue. I also like the structure of the original flag.”

Participants who selected Warm 5-stripe Simplified (4 participants did not respond)

“it is just simply better idk”

Participants who selected 6-stripe Simplified #2 [more green/teal] (2 participants did not respond)

“IMO the 6-stripe flags are much better to use to differentiate from the lesbian flag and to match other gay mlm flags (autistic gay, she/her gay, etc).”

“if the six-stripe simplified flag with the philly stripes were an option i would totally pick it, otherwise this one is my absolute favorite. it feels much more like its own flag and I really just appreciate the composition of the colors and stripes more.“

Participants who selected Warm 6-stripe Simplified #2 (More Teal)

“it makes the purple more apparent.”

Participants who selected 5-stripe Philadelphia

“I rather those shades of blue than the purple ones and I think it's important to add visibility to black and brown people.”

Participants who selected Pink/Purple Original

“I like the pink/purple flag because it makes it feel less of the stereotypical blue masculinity for men. Purple especially is nice because it can be both pinkish (“feminine”) and blueish (“masculine”). I’m GNC and I love when I’m able to show that and be represented in such, even with a shade of color! -J”

Participants who selected Warm 6-stripe Simplified #1 (More Purple), 6-stripe Simplified #1 (More Blue/Purple), and Warm 6-stripe Simplified #1 (More Purple) did not respond.

Conclusion

Participants who responded showed an interest in

Reproducibility of a flag/ability to easily make physical flags

An “easy to remember” and “easy to recognize” flag

Flag aesthetics/personal color preference

Number, symmetry, and size/thickness of flag stripes

Personal connection, feeling represented by the flag

Ability to connect and show the flag alongside other pride flags (e.g. the trans flag)

Many participants expressed that they used multiple flags.

[ If you’re wondering why I’m not sharing or linking the poll spreadsheet, this is because personal emails are collected by Google Polls from each participant as they respond and I don’t want to make these public. I apologize if any numbers are slightly off. Some participant’s responses were un-censored for the sake of screenreaders. ]

#poll results

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