#where is he bioware where is my dorian

[emmg]

I need Dorian to show up in Veilguard for the sole purpose of shaming the egg. He'll take one look at Solas, flip him off for breaking his bff Lavellan's heart, and say something like "Ah, yes, the ultimate midlife crisis. Bravo! I'd spit on you, but frankly, I'm not here to help with your tragic skincare routine."

[asexuallucanisdellamorte]

if bioware do make a dlc for veilguard i will only accept a mass effect citadel style one. Rook and co can't go back into the fade so the inquisitor gifts them skyhold and the entire dlc is just inviting every single one of dragon age's previous characters to a massive party

[fir3flytv]

HAS ANYONE FOUND DORIAN??????????? IS MY BOY OKAY????????

[pinacoladamatata]

if they Tamlen solas' ass, that might just be IT for me

[angrykittybarbarian]

The Qunari and how DATV handled Taash's character arc

Taash's character arc has been controversial for several reasons and while the grifters and rage tourists are bothered by their non-binary identity it is in fact not the problem.

The real problem in my opinion is rather the immature way in which this was handeled and the entirety of qunari culture along with it.

Because what I came to realize at a certain point is that Taash's character arc is about identity in a broader sense. Not just in regards to gender but also to culture.

While the gender aspect is handeld immaturely the cultural aspect is not really handled at all.

Let me elaborate:

I have already explained in a previous post how DATV sets up Taash's gender identity as a conflict with their mother while there is actually none.

The game desperately wants the player to believe that Taash being non-binary is a sore subject between them and Shathann but does not actually show it.

Instead we get Taash lashing out at their mother when she was simply asking questions. That kind of behaviour only served to paint Taash as a bratty teenager á la 'It's not a phase, mom-uh'.

Not only did this portrayal not achieve its intended emotional effect but also reinforced a harmful stereotype about trans and non-binary folk I have heared in the past few years too often: 'They are just confused.' 'They are too lost in emotion and make rash decisions.' 'They are just rebelling against their parents.' You get the gist.

The devs were so concerned with not offending anyone that they became even more problematic in turn.

The Youtuber Slandered Gaming made a, in my opinion, good suggestion on how this particular character arc could have been improved upon. He suggested Taash should have been firm in their non-binary identity. There shouldn't have been a question about it in the first place. Taash would have been subsequently more mature in their approach to the topic and the discussion could have been taken deeper than that coming out scene where we have to pretend Shathann was problematic for asking questions.

Perhaps Taash could have gone no contact because of several interpersonal differences with their mother, the non-binary identity being one of them.

It's why Dorian's character quest felt deeper. He was an adult who was sure of what he wanted. There was no question about him being gay. It was about how his father reacted to the fact and how Tevinter culture and society informed that reaction. It was all so tightly knit together that it was impossible to seperate. Talking about Dorian's sexuality had to involve discussing Tevinter society.

The same was done with Krem despite being a side character you potentially could completely ignore.

Circling back to Taash their character arc pales in comparison because it always remains on that surface level of "So, I'm non-binary. I will be offended if you ask questions and don't understand me right away.'

But the kicker is that the same template was right there. They simply had to fill it out and yet they didn't.

Taash's cultural identity could have been tied so much deeper and much more intrinsicially with their gender identity. Taash, aside from struggling to find their true gender, also struggles to navigate multiple cultures.

They are the child of a qunari who has been raised in Rivain.

Taash's story is not only the expereince of a trans/non-binary kid in a hetero- and binary-normative society, it is also the story of an immigrant kid.

And this is where Bioware missed a golden opportunity to explore what it means to not only be an immigrant kid but also a queer immigrant kid.

Many of us are raised by parents who have had no experience or touching points with queer identity up to the point of us coming out or are not tolerant at all because of rigid gender roles/ideas of morality they have grown up with in their home countries. Many of us do not come out at all to our parents because of that.

Given that Shathann seems to still be very much attached to the belief system of the Qun despite having left the core society this could have been an aspect thoroughly explored. We could have gained a more nuanced and humanized depiction of the Qun instead of having it presented to us via The Butcher or the Dragon King (cringe).

Shathann could have had a very rigid idea of gender and the roles she expected of each. The constant conflict between the more conservative mother and her more flexible child could have been shown very easily and beautifully. Shathann's general perfectionist tendencies would have played very wonderfully into this. It would have made Taash lashing out at her more believable.

And I think many of us immigrant kids could have empathized with and seen ourselves more in Taash, since many of us do know this constant struggle of trying to have a family, maintain a cultural identity while also wanting to be part of the countries we've been born/raised in. Many of us can exactly recall times when the way we wanted to live was in direct opposition to what our parents expected of us. This finds its expression in mundane things like the way we want to dress and, in case of some, extends to big life decisions (expectations of getting married, in regards to education, wether you want kids and a traditional family or not, purity culture in general, etc.).

For Taash it could have been Shathann berating the way they dressed, their very profession, going out and fighting because under the Qun only men fight or expecting them to observe certain traditions and rituals. And ultimately Shathann could have doubled down on her expectation from Taash to finally adhere to one specific gender role while refusing to understand the non-binary thing instead of simply asking questions.

This could have been so beautifully shown and resolved. It would have made the scene where Shathann finally uses the correct pronouns for Taash all the more meaningful. But Bioware adresses none of these things.

Did they really have not one single employee with an immigration background? Couldn't they have done some research? It's not so hard to find first person accounts on the internet or in the real world.

Instead the question of Taash's multiculturalism is adressed in one small quest where Rook has to make the decision for them wether they want to be rivaini or qunari.

Taash has appearantly no idea about what culture they want to practice and do not even entertain the idea of possibly being both.

The character that refuses to be bound by rigid gender roles appearantly draws the line at multiculturalism.

I cannot even begin to explain how this is so problematic on so many levels. It prepetuates this idea that people will always be seperate and if you happen to have a different cultural background you better abandone your parent culture if you want to participate in the culture of the place of your birth/upbringing.

In game it could have been an opportunity for Taash to recontextualize the Qun in a more flexible way. Seeing the positive aspects of the wisdom the belief system does have while questioning problematic parts. It would have brought nuance to the Qun that was previously othered as an orientalist religion in opposition to the Catholicism coded belief system of Andrastianism.

Without exploring these possibilities the Qun remains this strange system that is ultimately worse than anything else and not worth understanding. What semblence of nuance the Qun posessed in the previous three games has been sanded down to nothingness in DATV.

[callahanisms]

inquisition companions react to the inquisitor missing half their arm

because bioware didn’t wanna give it to us, i decided i’d just do it myself. (insert thanos meme) even though i am like years late to the hype.

the game is like 9 years old at this point, but spoilers ahead.

do keep in mind this is my own personal interpretation of each character. it may not be accurate to your own interpretations. (also i know leliana is technically not a companion in inquisition but i included her anyways)

cassandra pentaghast

if cassandra could plunge a knife into the heart of solas, she would. she would not let him get away with betraying you and taking the anchor along with your arm. you had basically fallen into her arms when you emerged from the portal and she had to carry you back to halamshiral. for the days you were unconscious, cassandra was anxious and extra prickly. there were many times where cullen would have to talk her down from her anger. even varric did too.

dorian pavus

the first thing he did was crack a joke. the atmosphere was tense and it just slipped out. “i asked you to come back in one piece, not missing one.” safe to say, the other companions did not approve of his joke. dorian was set to return to tevinter after being notified of his new position as a magister, but he delayed the return to his homeland for you. he sat in your room as you lied unconscious, barely breathing, leg anxious bouncing up and down. when you awoke, you were immediately met with a large and tight hug from him. he knocked the air out of your lungs from that.

blackwall

blackwall admires you. in fact, everyone would go so far as to say he adores you. he thinks of you as strong, capable, almost infallible. you closed rifts, you closed the big green tear in the sky, and you defeated corypheus! what couldn’t you do? all your feats proved to him that you were the strongest leader he could ever know. and yet, you were still mortal. you left the eluvians mortally wounded and exhausted beyond belief, your eyelids so heavy and ready to close so you may drift off into the black void of sleep. blackwall would not let you, not until you were taken away to be cared for. you found him sitting besides you, awake and on guard. your mortality was his reminder that you and him were the same, even if your lives appeared to be completely different. and he understood that the world would need a leader like you and that is dangerous.

iron bull

the bull could feel a stronger kinship with you that day. it appears that the both of you lost something. he betrayed the qun for the inquisition, thus losing a part of himself, his people. you lost a literal part of yourself, something you had to come to terms with after having the anchor for two years. to say iron bull was shaken up would be an understatement. he was getting cassandra to hit him with sticks for days on end while you lied unconscious. he wondered what would’ve happened if he was with you, if maybe...he could’ve stopped solas. but reminiscing never did anyone any good.

cole

as much as he wanted to help you, cole couldn’t. he also understood that you wouldn’t accept his help, no matter how much he insisted. so instead, he did the best thing he could do: help tend to your injuries. what was curious was that he could feel very little of your pain. when he felt your pain two years ago after forming the inquisition, it was concentrated in your hand and forearm. with it gone, you felt at peace. the primary source of pain for you had been washed away. perhaps it was a blessing in disguise, he thought.

sera

sera’s immediate reaction is, like dorian, to crack a joke. everyone is used to her eccentricity. but it felt different this time around. while you laid unconscious, recovering from the long battle, she occupied herself. she had to busy her hands and her legs, keep moving, keep her mind busy. because if she sat too still for even a second, then her mind would think about the worst outcome. she would get images of you, dead, because solas had betrayed you, betrayed her, betrayed the inquisition. hell, he betrayed the world! that knob! thinking he knew what was best! sera’s all the more relieved when it’s revealed you survived. she bursts through the door to see you and hug you tightly, complaining about how much you scared her.

varric tethras

in all honesty, varric should’ve been more prepared to expect...well, the unexpected. he had expectations of you coming out unharmed, untouched. obviously, that was not what happened. and he wondered if he was responsible for this. he had been one of the many people to support you as the inquisitor two years ago, suggesting it. he wondered if he made the wrong decision. but also, part of varric was relieved. he lost someone close to him two years ago. he didn’t know if he could handle losing you too.

vivienne de fer

the court would devour tales of the eluvians and how you managed to survive. that was vivienne’s first thought. people would be talking about you for centuries to come, certainly. and yet, she knew in her soul that was not what you would want. she does her best to minimize what rumors spread when you first emerge from the eluvians and help give you privacy. behind closed doors, vivienne checks on your injuries. part of her is amazed that the anchor was removed so cleanly.

josephine montilyet

josephine has seen many things ranging from serious to just plain absurd. when she was alerted that you had returned with many serious injuries, including the loss of half your arm, she sent messages to get the best possible doctors in all of orlais to help attend to you. the woman was definitely stressed beyond belief. but when she wasn’t trying to get everyone from backing off from you or getting people to look at you, josephine was attending to you herself. you awoke to find her wiping some sweat off your face and when she noticed, she muttered about how great andraste was and embraced you tightly.

cullen rutherford

your knight-commander appeared to take the news very well, much to the disapproval of cassandra. but the moment cullen was alone, in private, he flipped a table, causing everything to crash. all he could feel running throughout his body was regret, guilt, and anger. regret and guilt for not having gone with you. he should’ve. because if he did, maybe you would have came back alright. anger directed towards solas because the apostate had betrayed you, the inquisition. and everything you and him had worked towards was going to crumble. all of his hard work, leliana’s, cassandra’s, josephine’s, it’d all be for naught. cullen ends up spending a lot of time alone while you’re unconscious. he prays to andraste and the maker to distract himself from any wandering thoughts going towards lyrium. certainly the new mabari hound he decided to adopt on a whim helps with distractions at least.

leliana

the woman has seen many things in her lifetime, having experienced the fifth blight itself and been part of that fight against the archdemon. still, things aren’t easy when you come back from the eluvians missing half of your arm. even if it goes against all her duties, leliana stays with you until you wake up to make sure you’re alright. you’re the inquisitor after all and it’s vital that you’re still alive.

solas

he’s the one who took it. you think he cares?

in all seriousness, it gave him no pleasure to remove your arm for the anchor. even if his plan was...well, shoddy we should say, the anchor was going to kill you. he had no choice. carrying your hand and forearm around felt heavy. he could carry it just fine but what made it heavy was the burden that came with his plan to tear down the veil and bring doom upon the world in a desperate attempt to bring it back to what it once was. and also, the burden of having harmed you.

[sha-brytols]

someone also asked how i feel about iron bull's sexuality in that post but it was like a month ago and i never saw it because i mute my big posts oops. but what makes bull less egregious to Me in comparison to how queer women are consistently fetishized/mishandled by bioware is that this is one (☝️) example of a less than ideal approach to a queer man's relationship with sex and sexuality AND ALSO my problem with bioware's handling of queer women isn't Just that they're consistently given poor or otherwise blatantly fetishistic narratives. my problem is that they're written this way Specifically as a consequence of the writers who have a well-documented and long-standing history of misogyny that leaks into their stories.

idgaf about "perfect" or even "good" representations of queer people. no character is ever going to be completely void of stereotypes or tropes or flaws. dorian was written by a gay man and he's still a walking bundle of tropes. that's not inherently bad. but when these tropes are consistently and disproportionately applied to one demographic over others, that's where we run into problems, because it's no longer just a trope. it's a reflection of the creators' biases.

like it's important that we understand queer romances with women Specifically are written with fetishistic and objectifying lenses and are overwhelmingly handled by men. and that there's a fundamental difference between how the sexually promiscuous bisexual man and the sexually promiscuous bisexual woman is approached. the iron bull is not degraded and objectified for his sexual proclivities the way isabela is. no one in the game is calling bull a whore or mocking his body count like they do with isabela. iron bull's promiscuity is celebrated and his relationships with men like dorian are treated just as legitimately and meaningfully as his relationships with women. isabela's promiscuity is mocked and her relationships with women are treated as a novelty to shock or excite the player (re: "women are good for 6" banter)

you're allowed to be annoyed and frustrated that bisexuality is often equated with promiscuity, but we Have Got To acknowledge that this trope is rooted in a misogynistic objectification of bisexual women specifically. that doesn't mean bi men can't be negatively affected by this, but this trope originated specifically from a culture where where men's sexuality is considered inherently valuable while women's sexuality is considered inherently debasing. it's a point of pride and a source of celebration for men to be sexually adventurous. it's something to condemn and be ashamed of for women. this is still very much reflected in bioware's handling of the trope. i don't think the iron bull's writing is indicative of the same sort of contempt and misogyny we see from bioware's handling of isabela. i don't think there's any indication that the writers were mocking or degrading him when they decided to make him a little slutty. the trope is annoying and it's frustrating to see it recycled, but i'm not offended and Angered by iron bull's promiscuity the way i am with isabela's.

[j0-0l]

Need Dorian to come home right NEOWWW WHERE IS HE BIOWARE!!!! anyways art of him and my trevelyan post trespasser :3

[vigilskeep]

since we’re heading to minrathous in veilguard i’ve been thinking abt a tevinter rook - do u have any thoughts on tevinter’s gender roles? i was wondering abt the male chantry structure + dorian’s talk of the magister/altus class being obsessed w bloodlines and heirs… ik dragon age gender lore is inconsistent lol but i’d love to hear your opinions anyway 🙏 i absolutely trust u more than i trust bioware

i DO have thoughts!!

i think the most sensible reason for tevinter to have its more patriarchal structure is religious. in the south, andraste is venerated above all else, and this is (canonically) the given reason that women are looked to for spiritual guidance, whereas men are considered vulnerable to the dangerous passions of maferath. however, in the tevinter chantry, they like to put another male figure front and centre: archon hessarian, the tevinter leader who mercifully(ish) slew andraste on the pyre rather than let her suffer, and later converted both himself and the imperium as a whole to andrastianism.

everyone andrastian likes this guy; it’s his blade of mercy on the templar uniform, and so on. but the tevinters like him even more so (again, canonically) and consider him the most important of andraste’s disciples. (because he’s the tevinter one, obviously.) ergo, more important than maferath. so my line of thought would be a) they do not have the aversion to male spiritual guidance that the south does, because their leading man is hessarian not maferath, and b) hessarian was an archon of the imperium and the leader of andrastianism in tevinter in his day, so of course all future archons and tevinter divines should follow in his footsteps.

i can see how that would cause a serious religious divide in the early schism days. from the southern perspective, spiritual leadership is being handed over to the untrustworthy, and hessarian is being falsely idolised. from the northern perspective, perhaps the female leaders of the southern chantry are going too far by assuming themselves as heir to andraste herself, which i can see being considered blasphemous compared to simply following in the example of one andraste’s disciples. we do know canonically that one of the big pre-schism issues was the sunburst throne refusing to recognise tevinter’s male grand clerics. (which is why another big reason for initially choosing a male divine when the schism began would have simply been defiance. i’m trying to think through why that decision lasted aside from dorian’s comment that they’re still doing it just because it’s the done thing.)

anyway, it for sure makes sense for that to filter into culture more broadly, especially given that it affects who gets into the top seats of power in such a status-driven society. and as soon as that’s true of a group, the people who do have access to those seats are rarely quick to open them up to more competitors. i can see altus women instead taking political roles where their primary ambition is to push their husbands, sons, brothers, etc. into these positions. classic scheming mother historical archetype

the altus obsession with bloodlines makes perfect sense to me, it’s kind of the natural progression of venerating something that can apparently be inherited by blood, and seeing that thing as a sign of literal divine favour that puts you into a special class above the rest. the only thing i would dislike narratively is any implication that this actually works to increase ability, lmao. tevinter may produce more powerful mages because the study of magic is so much more supported there, and because they’re not, you know, preventing the mages having families and thereby decimating the natural population, but let’s not start acting like fantasy eugenics actually makes mages from these mage families inherently more powerful, because that would be incredibly stupid writing. they’re just more likely to be mages because their family are all mages, and then they have far more training resources at hand. and less religious hangups. (luckily all the evidence so far supports dragon age for once not taking a weird angle. it’s not like any of our randomly born mages are somehow not a match for dorian or danarius or whatever other altus we’ve seen in a fight.)

that got a bit distracted but those are some thoughts :)

[inkyquince]

I'm going to make fun of so many peoole who don't like veilguard. Because....

Veilguard is the spiritual successor to Dragon Age 2

Inquisition is more like Origins, and I would call it the spiritual successor if it wasn't sufficiently lacking in other areas

Now there are dumb fucks out there who only like origins or only like inquisition. It's their entire personality when it comes to dissecting the dragon age games.

I like dragon age a lot because each game is a different genre. Origins is depression melodrama. 2 is a comedy that loves to stop and punch you in the gut every now and then, and shows the prime time when your friends are more your family than blood is. Inquisition is... A political thriller that happens to have magic (and the ugliest graphics. Bruh why is everyone but like three people so deep in the uncanny valley. Why is combat boring). Veilguard is getting to see what it feels like to inherit a situation outside of your control, it's more like an underdog story.

"it has cringy dialogue" and you don't remember origins? You think bioware doesn't dish out cringy dialogue for each game?

"the art style-" is STYLISED. Origins is good looking for graphics that feel outdated for 2009. But it's not realistic looking. 2 had it's budget slashed viciously so it does look wonky especially with their cameo characters. Inquisition, as I've said, feels deeply ugly because there is nothing stylised about it. They went for realistic and now everyones inquisitor is kinda ugly, sorry. People enter the uncanny valley, they always look better in concept art. The three prettiest people we have is Dorian, Cassandra and Josephine. Everyone else enters the uncanny valley of WEIRD looking. It's busted and I'm sorry. Veilguard? Fuckin stellar stylisation. The art, the environments, the magic, is so goddamn pretty.

"you cant control your compa-" yes you can. You can make them attack. Why are you sad about missing out on inquisitions boring combat where you press R. Wow. Amazing.

People have rose tinted glasses for these games. Play them from the first to the last game and I'd say veilguard is FULLY one of the best. I saw some loser on tiktok scream about the iron bull's signature being EXPLAINED in text and not shown?? Saying 10 years and for what?

10 years for a play through, start to finish, took me 55 hours doing ALL of the quests and exploring. From the amazing character creator and the hair physics that inquisition, 2 and origins could never make work. From the beauty of the backgrounds, how each location feels deeply lived in, compared to inquisition where new environments felt plastic and not real. For a finale that had me crying for 20 minutes at the choices I made and knew would make again. For the reveals, for the conversations, for the natural ending for Solas. I only cried in origins after my warden died. I teared up at Hawkes mother dying. Inquisition got no tears from me.

I'm sorry that you're hung up on small details. I have complaints too. Maybe a better fantasy term for trans and non-binary, but honestly the conversations that we're able to have about them? Deeply lovely. I personally wish that one day we can go back to the origins start, where we spend around 20 minutes IN our origin and then go frolicking. I'd kill to see that with the mourn watcher and crow origin so we can be excited when we see them again when we revisit the important NPCS. Personally do want the Lucanis romance to kick off earlier in the game, but he is one of the hardest ones to romance for good reason and it made sense for the character. I miss importing decisions but to be fair, the choices I made in origins wouldn't have shown up that much in veilguard, except maybe Kieran being in the background of some scenes at a stretch, but mostly for inquisition and Hawke. Varric obviously sees a lot of Hawke in Rook (just look at the dialogue wheel) and I wish we got to hear Isabella talk about them.

But these are so little. I have way more complaints about inquisition but I will still play it. I can acknowledge the flaws but if you hold it, or origins on a pedestal, that's just embarrassing for you, that you're stuck on a game, instead of being stuck on the series, in an excellent fantasy setting that keeps being expanded on.

Veilguard let's us say goodbye to Solas in the best way. There was NEVER going to be a happy end for him. Stop deluding yourself that the inquisitor and Solas would have rode off into the sunset. It's frankly embarrassing that themes from inquisition and veilguard flew over your head if you beloved that.

I've seen this same anguish over a sequel and it was for 2, after origins. Now 2 isn't the perfect game. It doesn't even have a proper title. But 2, a decade later, is well loved. It's full of jank, it's got strange coding, but the story has a lot of love. But it wasn't origins, so fans wailed and pissed. But it's a fan favourite these days and Hawke is deeply beloved and remembered fondly to the point that the possibility of their death in inquisition made an impact.

So, basically, get over yourself. None of these games are perfect and yes it took 10 years but I love it. I get to play as a crow for the first time, a faction I've loved since Zevran was able to rizz himself out of being killed. You can play as a Warden again, for the first time since Origins. Griffins are back and they're adorable. Their quest is heart breaking and anxiety inducing. You can play as new factions, ones we didn't fuck around with before, the shadow dragons, the mourn watchers, the veil jumpers. We get several amazing romances, that feel in character. Everyone is bisexual again but have clear preferences. Bellara has a preference for women, Emmerich has a preference for men, Lucanis has Never being in relationship. Taash and Harding might get together, Lucanis and Neve might get together. We get a companion that's trans, we GET to be trans for the first time. In inquisition we have krem but the developers never thought we would want to be trans, so I will happily take what we can get. Could it be better? Always. But I'm not stuck in 2014.

Take off your rose tinted glasses and go fuck that old man and maybe you'll lighten up.

[rookinthecrownest]

Discussion about romances + expectations under the cut (I'd put it as like..mildly critical, but also coming from a place of understanding?). As usual, will tag as such so you don't have to engage/read on if you don't wish to. I always invite open discussion, just keep it respectful (as I will endeavour to do so myself).

This is going to be a bit of a ramble, so I apologize if my thoughts are not clearly laid out like they should be.

I think I've found the reason why I (and maybe others), feel that the romances in Veilguard feel a bit... idk, hollow, at times (not BAD!!! just feeling like there could be MORE). And that's because of the trap of expectations. I may also be speaking completely for myself here.

Anyway, let's rewind to 2014.

Be me, 10 years ago. You're not really a gamer, but indulge in action RPG's casually.

See a commercial for this hot new game coming out called Dragon Age: Inquisition. Be intrigued by the character designs, but know nothing about the world. Come to find out it's part of a trilogy. So naturally, you buy the first two games and play through them before playing the third.

Be amazed, and completely hooked on the characters, the lore, the world, the darker elements and themes. It becomes your favourite game series of all time.

But you had no idea that you could romance any of the companions going into the experience. And man, does it fundamentally rewire your brain chemistry to fall in love with cRPG and get ridiculously attached to your Warden/Hawke/Inquisitor.

So, you romance Alistair first because he's funny as hell, and has a really interesting story/character arc. Then you romance Zevran, and love that too - he's charming and suave and awkward and funny. Then you go onto DA2 and romance Fenris and Anders, and each of those romances pack their own emotional gut punches. Then it's finally time for DAI, and predictably, you go for Solas (a veritable slow burn that spans TWO games), Cullen, and partially (I never finished those playthroughs lol) Blackwall and Dorian.

I had no idea you could romance companions going into these games. It was a pleasant surprise! It always felt like an important part of the story, while not overshadowing the main plot. There was enough material in the codexes, the cutscenes, and party banter to make each romance feel complete and whole and awesome and nuanced.

And then, like some of you I suspect, I read an article that touted Veilguard as "The Most Romantic Bioware Game Yet", and I thought - "Wow, if they're saying this then the romances must be something else", given the quality of the previous romances you've experienced in these games!

But you get to the game - and while you're having fun, it definitely leans more into the ARPG style where romances feel a bit more pushed to the side in order to tell a certain story than the traditional Bioware/Larian RPG experience you've come to love.

Which is fine! Again, once I stopped thinking of Veilguard as a classic Bioware CRPG, and more like GOW/The Witcher, I found I was able to appreciate it a lot more for what it is. Things have to Happen A Certain Way for the narrative to work, and that's not a bad thing. DA2 was similar - it was a harrowing, personal tragedy about the Hawke family and their struggle to survive in Kirkwall.

Just like DA2, there are aspects of Veilguard that make me glad things happened the way they did. I'm not mad that Rook has so much dialogue without a ton of player input and you can't 'be evil' - because the game doesn't make sense if you can. At its core, Veilguard's narrative is centered around Regret, after all - you can't have an evil protagonist running around because Solas' Regret prison would never work (evil people don't generally tend to regret their actions...)!

Now, if you're expecting a long-winded, fully researched academic breakdown of every romance I'm sorry but that ain't happening tonight lol. This is not based in any fact, this is all opinion.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but sometimes it feels like the romances in this game (and I say this with the biggest grain of salt as I've only done Emmrich and Lucanis' - and am going through Neve's now), are just missing....something, to take them from good to great.

I loved Emmrich's romance. I thought it was very well done. I think a lot of people would agree it's one of the stronger ones in the game - doubly so if you play as a Mourn Watch Rook (you get a TON of MW specific lines going this route, it's great). His side romance with Strife if you don't get together is very cute, I enjoyed it. But as superbly well done as it was, somehow, I wouldn't even put it in my top 4 Bioware romances.

With Lucanis' romance - whatever my hangups may be about how it was handled, certain parts of his romance were done excellently (even better than some of the previous Bioware romances, I'd say). You can read more about my thoughts on his romance here which is why I'm not going into detail about it. Unlike Emmrich's, I would put it in my top 4 because I fell in love with the character that much (both in the game but really, I've loved him since Tevinter Nights), and I've grown very attached to my first Rook and him as a pairing. I've seen others share a similar sentiment on here (and I hate to say it but I agree) - sometimes it feels like I fell in love with Rookanis despite the way it was handled, not because of it. I can't say that for many other romances. While it's been fun to think up a lot of HC/write fics/make art about those abandoned concept sketches and parts where I felt the game could have showed us more of their dynamic, I can't help but feel like his (and other) romances would have immensely benefited from even 1 or 2 extra small scenes to flesh it out a bit more if they weren't going to let us freely talk to our companions.

The issue with the romances might also have something to do with the pacing of the game itself. I think Act 2 is where the pacing goes a bit awry, before picking back up in Act 3 (which is great, I love it).

Sometimes I also felt that there was a little too much reliance on codex entries and party banter to tell the story of the romance rather than showing it explicitly through cutscenes. I think that's what makes the romances feel a bit truncated at times, compared to the previous entries? Some of the romance-specific party banter was so good, it probably deserved its own cutscene. But it's also highly dependent on the party you have, and it's easy to miss/not trigger. I remember absolutely living for the cutscenes in the first three entries and I can't explain why I feel like, subjectively speaking, Veilguard just has less romance content (this may not be objective reality - I haven't compared the amount of romance specific content head to head with other games).

I also couldn't tell you why I feel DA2 doesn't suffer the same problems as DATV in terms of romance interaction - because you can't freely talk to your companions in that game either. Yet somehow, it always felt like I was getting enough of them to not notice that. I do miss being able to chat my LI's ear off and ask them questions about their life/their views/etc. like I could in DAO and DAI. I think it's a shame we can't because the companions in DATV are SO interesting. I want to ask them all a billion questions about their lives/stories/etc even if they're not my love interest. The party banter in this game is immaculate but being able to talk to them individually about this stuff would've been SO nice. I feel that I've missed out on SO MUCH of these characters just because I didn't have two of them in my party at the same time!

Anyway, I need to wrap this up.

In closing, perhaps, if I hadn't read that article about how it was going to be Bioware's most romantic game ... maybe I wouldn't feel this way? I think it sent my expectations through the stratosphere, and that's no one's fault but my own. Not Bioware, not EA, mine.

I know that this game's development cycle was a unique sort of hell that the other games didn't suffer. To go from Joplin -> Morrison -> Veilguard. To have so many of the original staff leave the team when Joplin got scrapped. To have to pivot from Live Service and then back to single person RPG. More lay-offs. It's a miracle this game got made. I'm happy I can sit around thinking about it. And I hope its successful enough that we get DA5 so we can all sit around dissecting that in 5-10 yrs time.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the Veilguard romances for what they are. I'm enjoying them more I play and discover additional banter/codex/etc that I missed the first time around. Like any Bioware romance, there are spots where they hit their stride, and spots where they falter a bit. When they hit their stride they knock it out of the fucking park. But when they falter, you can really feel it. Romance is hard to write! And you'll never fully please everyone.

But a small part of me wishes I'd gone in blind, and checked my own expectations a bit.

Maybe you agree, maybe you don't. Tell me about it. What was your experience with the romances? Did you also read that article and get your expectations up?

I hope this makes sense.

Kind regards good fandom folks,

Keep the discussion respectful. And please don't use this post as an excuse to just blatantly hate on the game.

-Rookie

[emmg]

If Dorian Pavus isn’t in Veilguard, I will physically implode and take the entire goddamn neighborhood with me. If October 31st comes and there isn’t at least a single pixel of that suave, wine-sipping bastard, I will personally knock on Bioware’s door, slap the nearest developer with a fish, and request an immediate lobotomy. And if Dorian “I’m too pretty to die” Pavus doesn’t waltz in, spits on Solas, flips him the bird, and blows him a kiss before setting his smug, egg-headed ass on fire, I will ascend to the astral plane just to haunt this game until it crumbles into dust.

Update: no developer is receiving a fish to the face

[dapperpea]

So in Veilguard I'm playing the AU Rook I created who is my Inquisitor's and Dorian's son. This is, for the most part, going swimmingly, as I have the imagination and canon-waving powers of a fanfiction writer to reimagine things as needed to fit this backstory. (People can say whatever about the game, but Bioware did in fact make a game specifically for my OC blorbo, so I am obliged to play blorbo in said game at least once.)

And then I got to the point where Dorian shows up. He comes in being objectively suave and political and showy, as is his wont, and with a normal Rook could be extremely cool.

Except he's my Rook's dad. He shows up like "Hello I heard you are shit-talking my boy and I am here to make you regret even thinking about it." Which means this turns into one of two situations:

Rook, who has most definitely mastered the art of political chessmastering: "Thanks for the assist, father, that was hella cool, good to see you"

OR

Rook, nearly as tall as Dorian and yet somehow still looking like he has the grace of a toddler: "What he said!"

You can obviously guess which I went with.

[hobnob2020]

The Veilguard review

Big spoilers ahead for the people that haven't finished the game yet.

So after plugging 70+ hours I've finally completed Veilguard.

This will just be a general overview of how I felt about the game, I'll likely do a separate one for Solas/Mythal and Lavellan and one for a Lucanis romance.

First off I want to say that any negative criticism I had for the game I am reminded of how difficult this game was to get off the ground running in the first place; it experienced multiple layoffs, it pulled the team to focus on Anthem when it failed, the team was reduced, OG writers left and multiple people lost their jobs once their work was complete and lets not forget those that worked on this during a pandemic so I think it's important to keep coming back to this so that we can just appreciate what we had as an end product.

Now the end product itself, did I enjoy it? absolutely.

I've laughed, I've been giddy, I've been angry at times and in those final moments was reduced to tears that reconciliations were reached and it was the end of a very long 10 year wait.

I want to start from the beginning where we welcomed our Rooks because holy moly is the character creator detailed. I mean seriously every single Rook I've seen is a catwalk model 😂

Every faction felt different and the brief history to your character was really well done; I went with a female mage elf I the Crows and I loved being a Crow from the get go; the decision that she made that essentially forced her to leave the Crows because she'd basically f*cked up a mission was really interesting because there's still that tension once she returned with Viago (who I adored BTW, his disappointing fatherly persona against Teia's comfort and protectiveness was just perfect) and it set the course for every Rook wanting to prove themselves.

Briefly touching on the Inquisitors creation I was so happy that this was an early decision and hearing her say "it's good to see you again" was like a stab to the heart and felt like I was being welcomed back home after such a long journey.

Once into the gameplay it's hard to ignore how beautiful the graphics look, Minrathous' design was so unexpected and how the locals were treated makes me wonder how Dorian ever survived 😂

There were certain scenes that just blew me away and made me realise just how far games have come to allow us them; the moment you open the doors at Weisshaupt and see Ghilan'nains massive looming face in the clouds was just breath taking, in fact the two gods in general were very well done and there wasn't enough of them in my opinion.

The animation as a whole was very good and again compared to Origins this game is on a different level of good (hate to compare it to other games but Balders gate is probably the closest contender).

There's a particular scene with Lucanis as a romance where he walks over to you after you basically say you like what you see and that Spite doesn't define him, the way his face moves, the little smile, the way his eyes drop to your lips when you touch him floored me and I think having motion capture for this game definitely paid off.

The mechanics of the game were fantastic and as I've yet to play anything other than my mage I am excited to play other classes and possibly Warrior for the first time across 4 games, although Spellblade ruined a mage for me as I love being able to be upfront in a battle and found it perfect for my Crow mage.

I went with purple Rook for this playthrough as I wanted a charming Crow who had far too much energy and was awkward in the best way possible and loved every minute of it; Bioware has always been very clever at establishing the different personalities and how they affect the world around them. Going into a scene and having your Rook react by themselves depending on their personality makes the character feel real and that we aren't just following the same thread of dialogue.

When you first meet Solas they didn't lie that it would feel like an end game mission, the dialogue was fantastic, his voice actor is just incredible and he has a talent to be confident, insecure, determined and doubtful of his own words all in one and it was very easy to fall In love with Solas during inquisition.

I really enjoyed how the first decision you make as Rook ends with the gods escaping, either Harding or Neve being injured which puts doubts in your friendship and leadership from the beginning, that Solas who we'd believed to be the big bad was essentially trapped and looked like a kitten compared to these evil beings who want world domination, it really makes the player question how are we going to fix this massive mistake that we've created, because it takes the gods no time to get to work whilst we scramble to find a team and cleanse multiple parts of Thedas at the same time aswell as setting up base in the fade where we dig deep into the history of Solas and the ancient gods past.

The companions of this game I felt were individuals in their own ways with their own back stories and present problems but I felt as a whole weren't as good as say the previous game; there was no double crossing mages or people with their own greed and agendas, no hidden pasts like Blackwall which personally fell abit flat for me.

In fact I'd say the only one who had an interesting story was Lucanis after his imprisonment and demonic possession and the struggles that came with it.

I don't think I'll romance anyone else other than Emmrich as the others just don't interest me.

It just felt like you were constantly flitting to the Lighthouse and back to grind out companion tasks in order to gain approval and faction points, there was no option to just have a conversation like previous games instead it was very much on their terms and where you were in the game which was something i really missed.

Still, their personalities were very different and characters like Lucanis, Taash and especially Emmrich stole my heart very quickly.

The banter was top notch quality as per 👌 some of my favourites were from Taash and Lucanis, just being a Crow in the middle of their conversations about capes was hilarious at times.

The voice acting as a whole was very good, I felt with some characters particularly Neve it felt abit flat in moments but Bioware have a knack for finding talented voices; having someone as bubbly and excited as Bellara to the deadpan and slightly blunt at times Taash made for a very diverse team.

Returning characters was always a welcome and there were some surprising cameos such as Isabella in the Lords of Fortune faction.

I know alot of people were disappointed that this game felt limited in bringing over past choices but it needed to make sense; Sera isn't going to return and be found in the deep roads etc, it needed to serve a purpose to The Veilguards story and I'm happy with the ones we did get.

When it came to the three decisions from inquisition yes I was disappointed at first; why are we ignoring who drank from the well, why aren't we talking about Hawke, who's ruling Fereldon, who's Divine?.

I think we need to remember that after 4 games the decisions from little to big are so vast that there's simply no way to fit it all in and satisfy everyone and baring in mind this game is for new players too.

Having this game set outside of Ferelden means those decisions won't carry weight in Veilguard, who is divine won't affect us, where Hawke is doesn't affect us because we know they'll either be in the fade or fighting against the evil.

And yes a codex could of helped address any of this but again, it's a smaller team now at bioware and the focus is on Rook this time around, it's their turn and tbh reading codex' is time consuming when you've got gods to fight 😂

The only decision I really wanted brought over was who drank from the Well because as a Solasmancer he was so pissed at me but I think I know why it was glossed over.

I think having Solas being able to control your Inquisitor would have the issue of consent and violation and as a romance that doesn't feel right, especially given how Mythal basically manipulated Solas and used him as a slave it just goes into uncomfortable territory.

We could also argue that Solas absorbed Mythals essence so all that's left is her memories and the tiny fragment you find in the crossroads so essentially Mythal ceases to exist thus there's no pledge anymore for the inquisitor and that she only needed her help to fight Corypheus, who knows but I'm glad Solas wasn't able to do that to the Inquisitor.

The endgame was amazing, finally killing Ghilan'nain was so satisfying and Lucanis was an absolute bad ass doing it, seeing Solas become the dreadwolf and hearing his pained cries was heartbreaking even if he couldn't stop betraying my Rook 😂.

Forcing you as a player to lose a character despite high factions and hero status was brutal, and I unfortunately lost both Davrin and Assan. As much as I loved them both, it made sense to his character to die in that way, and Harding has so much more to do for the dwarves and titans.

I'll talk about Solas/Mythal and Lavellan on another post but I was very happy with how it ended, seeing the art concept of him making himself tranquil just shows how differently it could of gone, and I honestly expected them to die in each other's arms.

If I think of anything else I'll add it onto this post but yeah, 10 years man and it's over, well not over completely as I'm creating an Emmrich romance as we speak but I can't believe years of speculation and doubt is now in our hands forever.

Yes this game could of been better in parts and blew my expectations away in others but I loved it and I think the negative criticism over characters like Taash, the three previous decisions, crazy solasmancers which bring the team down is so unjust and people need to reflect on themselves as humans.

All I would say to those that critic this game as heavy as they have is to take their time and play it again, you'll find things you missed the first time around, really read the codex', just sit back and understand what the characters are saying, read between the lines and just take it back to beginning of this post, this game very nearly didn't happen and alot of talented people that have given you this game have lost their jobs so please just be grateful for what we do have and pray that this isn't the end of dragon age.

Edit:

The whole Varric thing was probably my least favourite thing about the game, not because he died but it just didn't make sense that Rook didn't know until the very end.

I had my suspicions because he was always tired and going back to bed and something about it didn't feel right.

For other companions to say "oh we thought you knew" was just silly, I could understand Solas using his powers to create an illusion but why not on all the companions because surely Rook at some point was like "Oh i'll take some food to Varric" or "have you been to visit him", without that Rook just sounds crazy 😂

[ohsweetflips]

just spent a very long time working on this ship-meme for rhodes and davrin <3 i swear rhodes actually smiles a lot i just have a favorite photo

also yes that is what i imagine rhodes' bad handwriting to look like. davrin gets the cool font bc i love him <3

some more nuance/explanations/lore under the cut :3

some of the sliders for davrin were based off vibes that i got but i do believe that, overall, the two of them have pretty similar energy

i also guesstimated on davrin's age. lucanis makes the joke that rhodes "keeps davrin young."

they technically already live together in the lighthouse but, come post-canon, they are always together, whether it be traveling or wherever they end up settling down <3

bioware didn't give rook a bed and then expected me to not assume that they sleep with their love interest???? i've started to headcanon that davrhodes slept together before tearstone island but tbh After rhodes being trapped in the fade prison, they go from sleeping in the same bed most nights to every night

rhodes is an octopus in bed and sometimes it is up to the sleep-gods whether or not davrin is the big spoon or little spoon

they're a slow-burn but a slow-burn where they are both aware of the romantic/sexual tension. it's for the monster/monster-hunter bit.

davrin is rhodes' first everything and they took it relatively slow/playful at first but rhodes was very eager to keep, ah, learning things and moving forward <3 (good for davrin)

davrin's libido is only technically higher bc of experience. rhodes, on the other hand, is a quick learner (good for davrin part two)

rhodes isn't a hard tried-and-true jealous type but davrin can rile them up SO easily. like if they're ever at some post-canon fancy event with the inquisition and someone flirts with davrin, they are there IMMEDIATELY to come collect their man SDKJDFKJFDKJ

davrin rebuffs all attempts at flirting from literally anyone who is not rhodes. however. he also finds rhodes' pseudo-jealousy very amusing so he plays into it.

i actually don't think davrin is that jealous but 1) i don't feel like changing my picture this took so long AKJDSKJDFJK and 2) i think he wouldn't be Jealous jealous but if someone was flirting with rhodes, he would be conveniently suddenly next to them <3

i don't think davrin is Hard on the separation anxiety but i think post-tearstone island, he is definitely More anxious about losing rhodes

i look at rhodes and just know that they can't drive

i look at davrin and just know that he has driving gloves

if davrin ever can't find his clothes, he goes to rhodes' room

they will get married at some point and it will be by isabela on a ship (and she gets bragging rights that she married fenhawke AND davrhodes)

(they both plan on proposing and both propose at the same time) (antoine and evka knew that both of them were proposing but thought that it was too perfect to interfere) (they get engaged in the flower meadow in hossberg)

my secret confession is that i love a post-canon settling down with kids plot AKJDSKJDFKJDF and i genuinely try not to shove it onto every single character bc i know it doesn't work for every single character. but i have dabbled with the idea of giving them a daughter a couple years post-canon. it's not confirmed but it's toyed with.

they have double-dates with camris/dorian, electra/alistair, and evka/antoine

(they know and have met hawke/fenris but my hawke becomes a bit more reclusive after everything with varric)

rhodes is very invested in davrin's monster manual + wood carvings and, once davrin finishes his manual, they help him get it professionally bound

i have a vision post-canon of davrin entering a wood-carving contest/showcase a la magnus burnsides from taz balance without the tragedy and winning

rhodes goes with davrin to visit his clan post-canon

they have fun together. like, they love each other and they're devoted, but they also have silly competitions and stupid jokes and love just spending time with each other. they fit very nicely into each other's lives!

rhodes teases that they're heartbroken over assan liking davrin more but their heart melts seeing assan follow davrin everywhere

davrhodes are in love <3

[ltleflrt]

Please talk about why you dislike DA:I! It’s also my least favourite of the first three games (haven’t played Veilguard and am torn whether to) but I struggle to pinpoint why except that it doesn’t resonate with me the same as DA:O (including Awakening) or 2.

Sure! I'd love to talk about my DAI gripes lol

It's too big.

I have never liked open world games, but they were popular at the time, so Bioware tried to make one. It suffers from all the things I hate about open world games, namely the pointless fetch quests and collectables that don't feel like they have anything to do with what's going on.

There are whole sections of the game that feel like they exist just to explore, with no plot relevance. Some folks love that! I do not. I will happily explore if there's a plot relevant reason to, like in Mass Effect Andromeda, where the entire point of the main character's existence is to explore new worlds for people to settle on. But the exploring in DAI felt like...just something to do to kill time and reveal ancient lore. Which would be neat if it weren't set in a political intrigue kinda game.

It was so fucking boring. And there were huge stretches of map where there was nothing going on except walking. Please, for the love of the Maker, give me smaller zones and give me loading screens instead of all that fucking walking.

2. The political intrigue.

In DAO, the political intrigue was interesting because the plot made everything feel urgent, like you were running out of time, and you just needed to show up and be like "hey, honor your treaty, ok yeah you're in EMERGENCY MODE, let's fix this before you all die in the next 15 minutes, and then meet me at the landsmeet!" The Warden was the only one who could go to these people to ask for help, because they were leading a scrappy little handful of misfits, and it wasn't exactly something they could delegate.

In DAI, the political intrigue was slow and tedious. It felt like something the Inquisitor should have been handing off to the advisors.

The Winter Palace is THE WORST QUEST, and it's unskippable, and it pisses me off as much as the ugly red uniforms did.

3. WHY is the Inquisitor doing 2 different jobs??

If political intrigue was going to be the Inquisitor's job, then the Inquisitor should not be running off to do all the companion recruiting and fetch quests. If the Inquisitor is the Leader of this new political/military group, then why are they traipsing around forests and deserts and mountains? Delegate that shit to someone else.

It would have made more sense for the Inquisitor to be someone that the game's protagonist answered to, so that they'd have time to run around the world and close rifts, kill demons, and recruit companions. The political intrigue and the running around closing rifts, etc, did not mesh well. Didn't make sense for the same character to be doing both.

4. The Mage/Templar conflict

I'm mad that they pretty much dropped it. Other than deciding who you're going to recruit as allies, it really doesn't affect the story. It was all I cared about at the end of DA2, and it meant next to nothing in DAI. They made a game that included political intrigue, and they didn't even give me the Mage/Templar war. They propped up the Chantry in the story, rather than tearing it down.

Also, they did Anders dirty and I'll never forgive them.

I might be extremely pro-mage, and not level headed about this at all lol

5. I don't care about most of the companions.

I love Dorian, and he's the only reason I'd ever play the game again. I adore Varric of course, but I have to play DAI in order to see him, and that somewhat ruins the experience of hanging out with him again. (Also, I'm mad about how they wrote him talking about Anders. That was his FRIEND.) And I was pleased with Cole, since I'd read the book he was introduced in. But otherwise? Meh. I actively dislike Sara and Vivienne, which makes me mad because I always get accused of misogyny for it, even though I have very valid reasons for disliking them that has nothing to do with their gender. The Iron Bull was boring. And Solas was boring until Trespasser, which was the first time I felt a spark of interest in him.

Edit: I was rereading everything, checking for spelling errors and whatnot, and realized I'd completely forgotten to mention Cassandra and Blackwall, which I guess tells you everything you need to know about my opinion on them.

I'm also annoyed that Cullen wasn't a companion. When it was announced he'd be in the game, I was excited to finally get a chance to drag him around with me, and bully him about being anti-mage (while hopefully also romancing him as a mage, because that's a ship dynamic I love lol). I didn't get to drag him around OR bully him about being anti-mage. SAD ABOUT IT.

6. The villain was stupid.

The villain was stupid, and I'm annoyed that he was pulled from a DLC, because anyone who didn't have it would be confused about what was going on.

I think he could have been more interesting, but I think the writing around him was subpar.

7. The best plot related part of the entire game was the Trespasser DLC.

I saw a post say once that Trespasser was the main game, and everything else was a far too long prologue for it. I agree with that assessment.

And ONCE AGAIN, they pulled the plot for the next game from a DLC. Going to mail Bioware a box of live crickets if they don't knock that shit off.

(That being said, I am glad they finished Solas' story in Veilguard. I found it to be a satisfying conclusion of the narrative around him, even if I don't think the game does a great job at being A Dragon Age Game in general. I recommend playing the game! It's a GOOD game! It's just not a great Dragon Age.)

8. It's not spooky.

DAO and DA2 were creepy as fuck. The only place you get that in DAI is when you fall into the Fade.

Anyway, those are the main things. I was constantly bitching about it the last time I played it, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of stuff. But I'm not going to play it again just to remind myself. Literally, the only reason I'd play again is for Dorian's romance. Maybe I'll play it one more time just so I can record the bits with MY inquisitor, so I can just rewatch the video any time I want to relive it. Then I'll uninstall the game and skip over it to Veilguard, which I think is far more enjoyable to play.