#we're retconning milk

[azazazazel]

[kaythefloppa]

The one good impact Bunk'd had is that it can serves the best example to why shows being renewed for more seasons past their prime is not always something to be celebrated over or fought for.

[knights-unwelcommentary]

To write Karkat in an engaging way I think it also helps to consider what phase of his character we're trying to write, there are several landmarks along the story that can be a good reference. Here's a list with some of my observations

Pre sgrub: He really wants to make it big, but is kind of lost about how to do it. He's pretty inexperienced at life and compensating for his insecurities by being excessively mean and posturing a lot

Sgrub: Milking his chance to do something important for all it's worth but being unable to get people to take him seriously, being starstruck by Slick, bonding with his friends in a constructive way for the first time, feeling guilty about Sollux's first death, overworking himself

Post sgrub: The shortest power trip in history, it takes a while to process that the rug got pulled from under him and while he does that he's split between being smug because of how it started and self-recriminating because of how it's going. He's scattered and kind of unreasonable and trying to keep things from falling apart even further but getting easily distracted by petty stuff. He's also running on empty after not sleeping for almost a month

Post murderstuck: Guilty and bitter about everything that went wrong but not being allowed to grieve properly because he's still seeing the people his incompetence got killed in the dream bubbles. Gave up on his goals so hard that he really has nothing left to focus his energy on except himself (past and future) and what could have been with Terezi (which ends up becoming a really unhealthy obsession about her relationships)

Post murderstuck post retcon: Starts the same as the previous point but gets derailed by shenanigans and things going alright despite his giving up, so he's starting to realize that he gave too much importance to his place in the world and not enough to doing right by his friends. He's still pretty depressed about his failures but there's still hope to make up for it eventually

[cathy-pso2]

Rant

I feel like the internet has normalized being a hater too much. There are so many shows and movies in the past decade where people will make longwinded rants on YouTube saying "X is garbage and here is why" or "The absolute state of <Franchise>" or "Y is the the worst <franchise> movie" and then I go watch the thing and it looks either fine or the flaws in it are so milk toast that I honestly don't get where the hate comes from.

My page is PSO2 themed so you'd think i'm strictly referring to that but I'm not even doing that right now. I'm mostly speaking about stuff like Avatar, Star Wars, Pokemon and Marvel right now. I've seen so many videos on YT claiming The Legend of Korra is terrible and absolutely ruins The Last Airbender. The show is alright? Like yeah, the first two seasons have more bad than good but anyone saying Season 3 and 4 aren't Kino are lying to themselves imo.

With Star Wars people hated on the Prequel Trilogy for a whole decade. To the point where when Disney bought the franchise you could actively tell they were trying to distance themselves from that trilogy. But the people who grew up on prequels started sharing appreciation for it online and now we're arguably getting more prequel fanservice than Original Trilogy. And even the stuff that takes place after the Original Trilogy is slowly building the groundworks for the Sequel Trilogy to make more sense. And I don't doubt for a second in a few years that trilogy will have the same effect of late appreciation.

I was convinced people hated the recent pokemon games with a passion but I actually got Pokemon Scarlet for Christmas last year so I decided to finally play it last month and... The game is fun? Probably most fun I've had since Black 2 White 2? Yeah the graphics are shit but I never cared too much about that anyway. I still play games like Gothic 1 and 2 which were made almost 25 years ago and look like the polygons were made with playdoh because I enjoy the gameplay so much that I can look past the aging visuals. And yeah, I don't get the hate for PSO2 either. I play it daily for multiple hours. The game offers insane sandboxes for self expression so it baffles me seeing videos like "PSO2 is a disaster" when its the most fun I've had with a MMO since the initial "MMO magic" ran out.

With Marvel I get its hard to stay invested right now because the only decent plot thread we've had needed to be retconned but a lot of these "terrible" movies and shows are either inoffensively bad or just plain mediocre. How is that enough to make people go on a multi-video tirade on YouTube or a 5 hour long rant?

I genuinely don't get it. Why do people enjoy being miserable like that on the internet? I legitimately can't trust anyone's negative opinion online anymore.

[a-silver-dragoness]

You know what would be an even cooler thing to find in the Hidden World besides Hiccups prosthetic leg (and something that would actual make sense)?

This. Toothless' prosthetic tail fin. Imagine the kids of TNR come across it, perhaps badly damaged and decayed. However, there is no skeleton attached to it. Did it fall off? Or do dragon bones decay quickly? What sort of dragon did it belong to?

It would be insanely cool, and very heartwrenching.

But you know what would be the scariest thing to find in the Hidden World?

One of these.

It would confirm my theory that Grimmel entered the Hidden World to eradicate the Night Furies (before the events of the first movie). It would explain why the dragons there are so adverse to humans. Whereas normal sailors and trappers would fail to enter the Hidden World, I wouldn't put it past him to find a way. I could definitely see him pulling a Princess Mononoke (i.e. wearing the skin of a dead dragon to hide his scent).

And unless we're given explicit evidence that Night Furies weren't hunted in the Hidden World (preferably by seeing a live Night Fury), I'm just going to assume that all Night Lights are inbred. I highly doubt TNR would be bold enough to retcon the extinction of the Night Furies.

Personally, I would have much preferred that Dart, Pouncer, and Ruffrunner were infertile, like mules or zorses. Thunder should have been a Light Fury (that way we get confirmation what a male Light Fury looks like).

But, alas, it seems every franchise is getting milked dry, and good storytelling is scarce these days.

[digitalgate02]

i want to be truly honest about my feelings re: this fandom's behavior which is just making me sort of stressful these last months.

I know people are tired of Adventure milking, and so I am as well, but i don't like when they also loathe on the original two series (Adv'99 and 02) because of the new content.

I love Advverse, ok? I really love it since I was a kid. Most of my friends I made through 02 so 02 is VERY IMPORTANT to me. But when I see people simply throwing a fit at Advverse as a whole because of tri., Kizuna and now 02TB I just start simply feeling that I should just avoid talking with others, block them or at least their posts.

You all know how much I want new stuff from anything past Frontier. Or even, past Adv'99. But I'd like it to be in merch format since I got a few traumatic experiences with tri. and everyone is well aware of it already.

The reason I avoided talking about tri., or even had a very negative opinion about it is that the fanbase ruined it for me. As much I love the Advverse lore, I don't really care much about it being consistent...? Like the part of it being consistent is more about working on my own stuff, but if something is enjoyable i give it a pass. There's non-lore compliant stuff i deeply care about in other franchises (like, y'know, Sonic Prime and Sonic Boom, both TV series, as example) and i think i'd have enjoyed tri. as a whole if i hadn't been constantly misjudged as a hater, having all of my concerns reduced into "Ni hates it because no 02 kids in it" and being gatekept, gaslighted and even accused of "forcing others to dislike it for 02" and then having some close friends or tri. fans claiming i'm utterly toxic or a "fake Adventure series fan" for simply having CONCERNS about this series direction and production.

There's things in tri. that I definitely liked and ofc I do not want to believe in a full retcon -- for example, I loved the new characters and them being poorly treated in-series was revolting to me. I'd like to believe Maki and Daigo are not dead, and if there's a lore compliant version of it made for Kizuna/02TB, i'll pretend or even believe that Maki and Daigo never died and are fine.

As for Adventure milking... I think not many people know but the way Toei and Bandai had promoted digimon series past Frontier was abysmally BAD. Bad timeslots, bad promotion, etc. -- This is why they have to bundle everything past Frontier in All-series material, like the 25th Anniversary campaign, for example.

If there's a huge fanbase for Ghost Game and even merch + collabs with this series, it's because they simply learned with the mistakes and the fact nowadays it's easier to access to Digimon series via streaming series and VOD is HUGE ADVANTAGE here.

The fact we're finally getting Savers and Frontier official subs (even if bad idk) on Crunchyroll in a few places is a BIG WIN here. In Japan there's some streaming services with ALL OF THE DIGIMON ANIME SERIES, including Appmon. Many people are getting access to those series only now.

Also, seems like they're trying to re-brand the franchise as well. To make more people get more awareness of everything and not just the first four series.

I know everyone wants them to stop making Advverse movies and content, but please. Please, stop loathing and politely send your feedback to Toei/Bandai with lots of RESPECT. Digimon Partners is open worldwide and lots of things can be done via this platform. If you want more merch or the series past-Frontier gets recognized: Go there and let them know.

Just complaining and hating on Adventure branch won't make anything past Adv'99 & 02 get new stuff or awareness. So please, do something instead of losing your minds every time Toei announces something featuring Taichi, or mocking staff members for possibly saying nonsense things because of their high ups telling them to do.

Thank you.

[zephyr-rat]

The State of League Lore Sucks

So riot made a post where they "regretfully" laid off 11% of its staff and listed their direction for their future.

It does not look great.

Like, we all knew that the decommissioning of the short stories and the lore universe page in favor of a "single canon" around Arcane was always going to be a bad sign.

Now, the decommissioning of Riot Forge, sidelining of Legends of Runeterra (which the writing was always on the wall for that but now they said it), and laying off 11% of their staff, including major writers like Graham McNeill just confirmed my belief.

When they said that Riot wanted to make a singular canon, it came off to me as "we will only make it canon, if it makes us money."

Now we're seeing that in action with how much deprioritizing, retconning, and decommissioning of efforts to expand on the League of Legends story IP because traditional lore engagement doesn't make money. It doesn't drive player engagement in their eyes.

The one time lore does make money for them (Arcane), they immediately try to have the lore revolve around it in a gauche effort to capitalize on it and make more money. In that effort, they throw away the lore writers' work and essentially called them worthless while enforcing a lore ban with no additional short stories to ensure a "singular canon."

I will guarantee you that once Arcane is over and the cow cannot be milked anymore, lore is back to being disposable. The executives will focus on the next craze instead of developing their IP and expect lore fans to cheer when they throw pathetic scraps merely hinting at a story instead of actually giving us one.

It was probably always like this, given Riot's history. Either way, I'll try to commit myself to Twitch and ZAC. I rped as them back in high school, I made a game prototype surrounding Twitch, and I'm currently writing a story about the first time the 2 met right now. I am deeply personally invested in these characters, and they've always given me comfort. I know that riot will never touch those 2 characters. They don't make money and they don't appeal to the wider audience, but they appeal to me. I'll make sure that they'll live concretely somewhere as actual characters instead of cardboard cutouts because it's what they deserve.

[caendtowntrash]

Is there any hope for Endtown? Aaron seems to be somewhat worried about the floundering state of his Patreon, and the rumors of two major arcana being Endtown focused makes me think he, at least in some level, realizes he has to right the ship somehow. I feel like this arc might be his final indulgence into Marx wankery, killing Eye, and resetting the universe. Maybe that's just me being too hopeful though.

Personally I'm REALLY skeptical.

I've gone over or added to thoughts about how much of a cancer Marx is a few times already so I can keep explaining that facet to a minimum for another difficult angle in the story itself: he's completely annihilated the scope and worse trivialized any reason for investment in the actual characters. Think about it for a second: there's an established multiverse where copies of the main characters exist at any point of their lifespan, from start to finish, and can be accessed by Marx at any point to do anything to them. Someone dies? Replace them! It's that easy! Why does anyone have to be invested anymore if Aaron already established that Cardoodle hybrids are quite literally stupid and shallow people, Topsiders cannot 'cure' the mutation phenomenon or make it stop and thus will spitefully persist as humanity's rage as it dies or become inhuman mockeries that will kill and eat each other at a drop of a hat, and Marx caused this unnatural existence for unknown but frankly no good reason at this point. He just subjected inhabitants of a doomed world to live in a suffering hell and keeps doing it. And why should the audience care about anything when Aaron seemingly doesn't? The whole Benny situation unfolding right now was long overdue and feels more like he finally remembered that was the driving force behind the conflict for half of the Eden storyline he never resolved, and the resolution is Marx constantly mocking and chiding Duffy for having real human emotions and wants in a storyline that doesn't give a fuck. And that's the rub: the undercurrent of how the drama and stakes for the characters we're supposed to be invested in is a joke to Marx for him to fart on and dismiss despite the bones of Endtown being BUILT on the characters as well as their struggles and the drama of their lives in this world. If he were in any way planning on changing course it would have happened already, but the latest update alone is proof that isn't the case. He's still shitting on the characters for their feelings while simultaneously drawing them in emotional agony. With that kind of poisonous mindset how can any return to Endtown be positive when we last left Endtown at its most dramatic and lowest? With his track record I almost anticipate a soft retcon of what likely would develop after Pig Arc, same as what happened after Milk Trial, and that's being generous. Hope is if he finally establishes under no uncertain terms that Marx is a villain and the characters have to escape or conquer him somehow, until we see acknowledgements for that then just enjoy watching the fire burn, I know I am.

[measuringbliss]

Spider-Man Read-Through 005: Kraven and the Vulture are back

MASTERPOST

Issue 047 opens with a flashback having notably THE GREEN GOBLIN, so I'm very happy. The retcon is fun and finally, ASM feels like it has actual continuity and cause and effects! And Harry and Peter are roommate! Yes, yes, yeeeeeeees!

We're 5 pages in and I already went from "I don't care about Kraven" to "Kraven is hilarious" so that's great. Also: lesbians!

Speaking of MJ, she sure has changed. She's still dancing and free-spirited! Can't wait until she meets Paul... (that's sarcasm)

And this is pretty funny, because earlier today I was writing a Parksborn fic where they're roommate and one question I asked myself was: in which issue do they become roommate? Well, it's this one so this is also great!

Look at Harry, putting on clothes after a make-out session with his best friend! They love each other like brothers! They're a couple of bestiiiiiiies! Anyway, Norman arrived to check if his son has been corrupted already by the gayness. It's already too late, dear Norman. They're fruity and you can't do anything about it, muahahahha!!!

Somewhere else, Kraven learned to shoot lasers with his boobs. Good for him!

You know I'm gonna milk those domestic Parksborn scenes for all their worth, don't you? Dear Lord!

Peter has a romantic rival in the form of Kraven.

It's very heartwarming to see Norman trying to protect his son! NotGoblinAnymore!Norman is fascinating to follow.

Don't mind me, I'm just thirsting on Peter Parker, it happens.

This issue is lovely, it has relationship drama all over the place, the villain is very entertaining, it's well-paced, I'm actually surprised at how enjoyable the read was!

Issue 048 and first off, can I say I love John Romita Sr's art? It's wonderful. I just can't love the other art styles the way I love his. It's really gorgeous. Anyway, the Vulture is dying (for now) and transmits the location of his equipment to Blackie, his accomplice. I wonder if it was already planned for the Vulture to stay alive.

THEN PROFESSOR WARREN HAS A LIL' CAMEO AND OOOOOH. I didn't expect this name to awaken such feelings in me. No, I'm not thirsting, I am wary. *flashback to the year 1975*

Don't mind me, just thirstin'. (Can I tag this with whump? I think I can.)

...Wait... Daredevil?! Oh yeah! (But Peter doesn't go through it.)

Meanwhile, the new Vulture has finally achieved his dream of a lifetime: getting that red Chanel purse. Slay!!!

I love these panels, you really get a sense of perspective. Lovely stuff!

Overall not as interesting an issue as the previous one. The Vulture passing the torch is nice, but the actual battle, while offering nice drawings, didn't give me thrills, sadly. Not enough drama?

Issue 049! I love the contrast between the white snow and Spidey.

Draw him like one of your French girls.

Once again, love the perspective. I feel like we don't usually get as many fun shots!

So Kraven and the Vulture get in a fight - and that kind of makes sense! The Vulture is animal-coded, so Kraven sees him as another beast to tame.

I don't think I could ever forget Kraven's new weapon.

Spidey himself agrees with me: I should definitely tag this post with whump.

This issue was a bit more interesting, but the battle dragged on again.

Next up: Spider-Man No More!

[jojo-ing]

I'm just trying to sum this bs up a lil bit since I still can't wrap my head around it, I haven't watched this shitshow past episode 7 so correct me if I get this wrong

So we start half a year after Kagome returns to the past, Kagome is 19 here (her birthday is shortly after she returns), Rin is 11 or if we go with the retcon she's 14 years old, still wears her baby kimono and waves her arms like an excited little kid seeing Sesshomaru on the roof, Hisui is a little over half a year old.

Skip to either 4 years later or 7 years if the timeline was changed

Rin is now 15 or 18, looking like a whole child in the kimono she wore when she was 11 (14 retconned), she's visibly pregnant. No mention of when this relationship started, no mention when she got married or proposed to. She still calls Sesshomaru by his honorific, even though no one else does. Kagome is not pregnant despite being married for either 4 or 7 years cause of reasons, she's 23 or 26.

Skip a little further Rin just gave birth in Kaedes home, she doesn't get to hold her kids, doesn't even get to talk to her 'husband' even though everyone else does before her children are stolen away. Kagome is apparently in her last trimester of pregnancy, she's not showing cause of reasons. Hisui is either almost 5 or almost 8 years old, still can't walk without his mother holding his hand and looks smaller than his sisters did when they were 2.

7 days later Rin is sneaking out of Kaedes home without telling anyone to make a wish upon a deadly comet to keep her children save. Her ass gets cursed to die for a third time cause third time is the charm. The reason she gets cursed? The old hag wants to know where her kids are because they're hanyou even though Inuyasha is probably a 5 minute walk away snoozing or something.

Sesshomaru is a little late, he couldn't find his way back to the village for 7 days, not his fault. He then takes his child bride and flies off through the night to squish her into a tree (suck it up wych elm bella), she's comatose now, Sesshomaru decides the best way of action to stop his bro and sis in law from accidentally killing his child bride is to ban their ass straight up.

??? some time later Kagome just gave birth, just got to hold her baby and now entrusts it to none other than Hachi because who else would be able to take her baby away (Shippou who?), they get banned shortly after

Moroha is taken to Kouga because Miroku and Sango already have 3 children with one of them being severely impaired in development, they have enough going on.

The twins are raised off of grass and creek water in a barrier Sesshomaru dumped them in by none other than racist and child hater Jaken who would've killed their asses if it meant saving Rin. They don't remember him later on.

4 years pass and Sesshomaru just shrugs when the villains set fire to the forest he dumped his kids in. Jaken is nowhere to be found, probably went to get some milk from the store. Towa somehow ends up next to the tree of ages, gets sucked through and is gone.

She gets raised by Sota even though he doesn't know her but he can't let a half demon child roam modern Edo.

Jaken finds Setsuna (just took him a while cause his legs are short) and brings her to Shioris half demon orphanage, the safest place on earth! Who would look for a half demon child in a place full of half demons! Sesshomaru has lost track of time staring at pickled Rin with a constipated look on his face.

Skip 3 years and Moroha gets sold into slavery, Kouga doesn't give a shit, maybe he's dead who knows?

Setsuna ends up at Kaedes sometime later, the old hag doesn't remember her even though she helped Rin give birth to children with a red streak but they're everywhere right?

Skip 7ish more years and we're finally at the start of yashahimes story, hurray.

I probably missed some stuff but this still smells like absolute bullshit, feel free to add

[deansmultitudes]

thanks for being against this and being mad at Jensen. the delusion at the idea that it's not going to romanticize and whitewash his abusive parents and their terrible actions is enraging. dean girls - DEAN GIRLS - are really okay with this when it stomps even more on his life and will force him to be an apologist and will give dean cr/tical fandom even more reason to hate him? absolutely not. who the hell CARES when we know how this story ends and it's with their sons dead/suffering for NOTHING

Know what, Nonny, I drafted this response before going to be at 7am as not to post something I’d regret, woke up quickly with a thought, why be mad at a real person for a fictional story. And then it hit me again that jensen will make dean whitewash his abuser and tell his love story. And I’m fucking mad again, so here we go, under the cut because it got long:

Let me preface this by saying that this isn't meant as hate on jensen. I'm angry at him for this specific thing, I'm disappinted that he's doing dean this fucking dirty and i'm fucking tired.

I also don't want this to be an attack on dean girls, we've all been through too much and we're all trying to deal with the crap we've been handed, in our own ways

But if any dean girls want to explain to me how exactly is this supposed to be good or at least not insulting, I'd love to discuss

Frankly, it feels like, at least among the dean/jensen girls, jp*d accidentaly did jensen a favor, because when you're protective of him there's just this snap in your head and you're all ready to defend him against jp*d fans lmao. Trust me, I felt it too

For real though, the things moved pretty quickly from the anger to lolz at the twitter drama and now that that's over we're gonna be left to stew in it so we'll see how that's gonna go. (actually I really hate that the drama derailed the anger)

But yeah, agreed, I don't see how there's anything to defend here. firstly J*hn and M*ry simply shouldn't get to have their story told especially since we already know the story! what the fuck is there left to say that isn't seven retcons wrapped in a burrito or whatever else crap that'll be showing how awesome they were? Some new freaking mythology shoehorned just for the sake of keeping milking it, that doesn't make any sense in the universe? Oh well, guess that's spn's middle name.

But no matter what they do, here's the thing:

Abusers don't fucking deserve to have their story told, I don't give a flying fuck how fucking wonderful he used to be. Oh yeah he was nice and lovely and believed in good even after war, and he loved mary and was so cute, basically a puppy yadda yadda. I don't care. He lost that fucking right when he started turning his sons into soldiers, leaving them alone in crappy motel rooms, using them as fucking bait for monsters (just to mention a few)

And they especially don’t deserve to have it told by the child they abused when said child can’t even fucking say a bad word about them because this isn’t about him.

And there’s a big difference between the complicated emotions Dean might have for Dean, both hating him and loving him because he’s his dad, and the entire freaking show about the good guy young j*hn winchester.

And as amazing as Dean is, he’s not gonna be the narrator this story would deserve bc he’s not gonna serve us takes like “aw how cute my dad is making PB&J. when I was 14 16 he said I can rot in jail for stealing peanut butter to feed sammy.”

We ALREADY fucking saw Dean forgiving john without john doing anything to deserve it because he's d*bbs fave or some shit. was saw dean drink his fucking crappy beer and smiling and we narrowly missed dean and j*hn hugging it out at the roadhouse. i don't fucking wanna hear dean say it was a tragedy that changed him and its not j*hns fault :(((((( or whatever else fucking apologia we're gonna hear from him like none of this fucking mattered. dean's already been tossed to trash by the finale, what's the difference i guess, might as well move the whole bin into the trash compactor

(actually now that I think about it john ended up having a redemption arc that was entirely dean’s emotional labor over 15 years, while john was dead lmao. just because dean made peace with his life doesn’t excuse john one fucking bit)

or well, since it's a spin off about j&m is there even gonna be so much as a mention of how fucking awful they will be in the future? will the people who tune in just for TW (oh lmao nice acronym. TW on the CW, cool) without watching spn even realize they're watching a show about a future child abuser or are they just  gonna fall in love with a cute matt c*hen look-alike, this sweet guy who loves mary so much OTP OTP OTP #relationshipgoals???

And as for Mary, what she used to be like before dean was born doesn't change anything of what she did to dean, the way she never tried to get to know him and took every possible chance to put as many miles between her and her sons as possible. Thanks to amara's little test, that ship has sailed

Like I'm really trying to look at this having put away the hurt and disappointment I feel now that the hope of jensen giving Dean his life back is gone. Because sure I'd feel it whatever other story jensen would decide to tell. But any other story wouldn't be a deadseaful of salt on that wound.

Or hey maybe it is some sort of a cruel twisted chance at closure if in the last 2 days I went from "let him live again one day" to "please, just let him rest in peace. Leave him out of this if you have to do this crap, please." This is so fucking insulting to dean and it just makes his death so much worse. I don't fucking want a constant reminder that he's eating lasagna with that fucker like it's a picture perfect family in a tv commercial. While still being dead. I don't want him to be telling a love story if he never got to and never will live through one*

*I'm not counting cassie bc it was so short it was barely a story and according to jensen lisa doesn't count either

But to the point. I think there is a solid line between not shitting on jensen and being able to criticize this project. You don't have to praise it just because jensen is making it. dean and jensen girls would not be trying to excuse it if it was jp*ds or d*bbs or whoever the fuck else's. why should it get a pass just because it's jensen's?

I for one am so fucking disappointed that jensen would throw Dean under the bus like this, and for what? Because I'm really not seeing any love here. I don't know, maybe he's lived with dean's death for so much longer that he's desensitized. he's moved on to better things, dean's not that important, he's just a tool to tell this story that will allow jensen to be in it

Funny, I always thought jensen was one of those who recognized j*hn was awful and that he fucked dean up. for fuck's sake he was the one who headcanoned that dean turned tricks in his youth because j*hn left them without money for food. But what do I know, I never really kept track of what the cast said except for these last year and a half, maybe he’s always thought the guy was awesome and misunderstood.

but hey, he's a rich guy with the rights to the universe and the means to do whatever he likes with them and this is what he chose to do with them, which makes things very clear. From his perspective things are mighty different than from where we're standing.

By the way I really hope they actually expected the backlash. Otherwise, if jensen and danneel thought the show's fans were gonna be happy about it meant they had to be living under some fucking rock at the bottom of the marianas trench or never cared about how the fandom feels. I don't see any other option here. well besides the obvious one.

Or maybe they're just really filled with so much hubris they think they can actually make a show about two most hated characters from the og show a hit. or that a slapped on voiceover by a beloved and still grieved character will be enough for that the way jp*d is enough to have his fans keep w*lker afloat. Or hey maybe they'll just gonna market it to the riverdale and legacies audience who won't even fucking know this shouldn't be a cutesy teenage love affair with some monsters

I know it was so, so easy to fall for “my first love”, “my best imaginary friend” and “he’s not going anywhere, I got him”. I mean, how could we not? We love Dean so much we wanted to believe jensen feels the same way. But in the end, for jensen, dean is a character he played on tv, and that’s all, he couldn’t possibly feel about him the same way we do. And we gotta remind ourselves that he loved the finale, said that it was an awesome way to end the show and that snuffing dean was the right thing to do. He and j*red practically rewrote that entire deathbed dialogue and added the ak/f crap. He said Dean’s ending was satisfying. Why would he ever try to destroy an ending that great?

I just wish he never teased us with the possibility of dean getting his life back on that panel

However we thought jensen feels about dean or his parents or any of it is just our projecting, so i guess the fault is just mine that I'm disappointed. damn I really screwed up that no parasocializing part didn't I?

Sorry this got so off-topic. I’m furious and no amount of rambling about it will help.

Fuck, I still can’t believe he and danneel are fucking doing this

“who the hell CARES when we know how this story ends and it's with their sons dead/suffering for NOTHING”

amen

[youremyonlyhope]

(This got long)

When Katie forgot the milk for the tea, Owen's reaction to me didn't seem like this was new, it seemed like this had happened before and he was used to comforting her through it. I don't think she'd have cried so quickly if this was new to her, I think she had been frustrated not confused. That scene must happen very shortly before the scene where Owen begged Dr. Jim for the extra tests. Then the alien parasite in Katie's brain grew from undetectable to a "clear physical tumor" that "wasn't there last week" between that meeting and the MRI and she was brought in for surgery "as soon as possible" where she died. I think it all definitely happened within a year, it may have happened within a couple months honestly. Especially if the tea scene was close enough to their summer wedding that they were planning seating assignments, but far enough that some people were still only just now receiving invitations. Dr. Jim was either a coworker or had been treating Katie long enough that they felt the need to invite him to the wedding.

Then during his 3 month leave from work, he sees Jack again at the graveyard. I think it's really telling that when Owen says "there is no such thing as aliens." that Jack brings him to the Hub to show him Myfanwy as proof (she's not even an alien), instead of referencing the Auton Invasion of London from March 2005. So I'd want to say this was before that invasion.

But then Aliens of London comes in and RTD messes up the entire timeline by jumping forward a year. So honestly, because Chibnall wrote Fragments and Exit Wounds and RTD was pretty hands-off with Torchwood's early seasons, I think Chibs just wanted to find a way to retcon why Naoko was there for the Space Pig. I think he completely forgot about the 1 year time jump and he just thought it took place in 2005 like when it aired.

Because if we say Fragments is 2008 (either later in the year, or set in March when it aired), then Owen's flashback to 4 years ago being 2004 and occurring before the Autons makes sense. And if we assume a few months pass before Owen gets hired and then he's hungover 2 weeks later, having the Space Pig show up in March 2005 like its airdate would match up.

But if we say Fragments is 2009 (because post-Year That Never Was but pre-Stolen Earth) then all of this occurring in 2005 would make more sense. Though if that's the case, I still don't know why in Jack would show Owen a pterodactyl from Earth as proof of aliens if he can reference the mannequins that attacked people less than a year prior.

Basically. RTD made the Doctor skip a year as a gag, and 20 years later we're still trying to make sense of his era's timeline due to all the ripples it caused. God, if only Tosh had said anything other than "your second week" in the Space Pig scene and it'd be slightly clearer. I really think Chibnall might have been imagining the Autons and Space Pig happening really close together like they did when airing, but not in the nonsense timeline RTD set up.

Plus Rose Noble being 15 in the Giggle in 2023 yet being born AFTER Donna and Shaun's 2010 wedding, just tells me RTD2 is still up to his old timeline destroying tricks.

Owen's Age

In Martha's medical log, she states that Owen is 27 during the events of Reset. We're going to talk about why we should stop accepting that as canon and start referring to Owen as being 34 during Reset.

His birthday of February 14th is always constant and isn't something I dispute. We are given two dates for his year of birth, 1974 or 1980.

1980 is on screen in Reset and I believe Exit Wounds, as well as in text published after season two. The fact that this is well documented makes it hard to argue with, and yet I will.

1974 is only ever mentioned once, in an email that was written and published on the TW website alongside Dead Man Walking. Keep in mind that this would have been written before DMW aired, which suggests that 1980 wasn't in the script that the writers were given. A few days after airing, the date in the email was changed to 1980 to match what we saw on TV.

Let's take a quick look at a Owen timeline.

Born either 1974 or 1980.

Began training as a doctor in 1994. He would either be 14 or 20.

Late 2000/early 2001 he walked out on his college girlfriend in London. He would be either 20 or 26.

In March 2001, Owen is a qualified Doctor in Cardiff. He would be either 21 or 27.

Owen was employed by Cardiff General between at least 2000 and 2002. He would have been either 20-22 or 26-28.

Lucy Marmer is brought to Owen's attention in September 2001, six months after Owen qualified. Owen would be either 21 or 27.

Katie dies in 2005, which would make Owen either 25 or 31.

Owen is hired by Torchwood in 2006, making him either 26 or 32.

Reset is set after June 2008, making Owen either 28 or 34.

Having Owen be born in 1974 puts his timeline into some form of sense. It makes him a year older than Tosh, four years older than Gwen, and nine years older than Ianto, which sits well with the dynamics. He in no way feels five years younger than Tosh, two years younger than Gwen, and three years older than Ianto.

In addition, Burn himself is born in 1974 and I frankly don't think he looks six years younger than he actually is.

I will now take questions from the audience.

[darkshrimpemotions]

Ah but you see I'm FULLY aware of this tinfoil hat I'm wearing, and at this point I'm just going with it because, well...this ain't your fandom vodka aunt's Johnlock conspiracy.

Firstly, and I know this is subjective as hell, but I just flat refuse to believe a group of people we know are capable of decent writing wrote something that bad without meaning to. That they would literally write multiple episodes in the final season outlining "this is what bad writing looks like" and then...do exactly that for the ending and genuinely think they did a good job.

Because that ending wasn't just like...mediocre or kinda bad. It was monumentally bad. It was bad from every possible angle, for every character, for every theme of the show, for every plot point. It undercut and undermined everything that came before it in the worst way possible. It sent a horrible message that ran counter to everything the show and its actors have stood for over the years. It had creepy incest vibes for some goddamn reason.

And it was also just...bad even aside from all that? Like...it was a boring episode, and badly written, and the case made no sense, and it had no pacing and was tonally weird. It was so bad even Jackles, acting his ass off as usual, couldn't salvage it.

Secondly, at this point we flat out know there was network interference with the ending. Like that's not some crackpot theory anymore. There are too many inconsistencies that can't just be handwaved away by this bullshit story about COVID requiring them to scrap a single roadhouse scene and that's it.

Thirdly, it makes far more sense to just accept that a network would interfere with its longest-running show's ending than to try and explain away all the nonsense of the final 3 episodes as unrelated instances of wild incompetence in every possible department with no precedent or explanation. If it was JUST the writing that'd be one thing, but suddenly hair and makeup can't do basic aging and the editing team makes mistakes no college sophomore would dare let slide?

Then on top of ALL that, there's the frankly ridiculous way all publicity related to the show has blatantly skirted around or flat out ignored a pivotal plot point that in any other show would be milked for all it was worth. There's the laughably transparent attempts since the finale to funnel the SPN fandom into a built-in audience for Walker.

There's the stunning levels of silence from the writers as well as two out of the three lead actors. Like...people involved with the ending just aren't talking about it that much, despite this being a literally record-breaking show that millions of fans literally grew up with. This show has been on half my life. There are high school seniors who don't remember a world where this show wasn't airing. It had a massive impact on fandom, on how fans and creators interact, and on pop culture, but nobody is fucking talking about it! That's weird.

Then there's Jensen's consistent choice to only acknowledge the finale when basically forced to, and then only in the context of shading it or segueing into talking about a reboot that retcons the ending. There's Misha, who has always been a level of open and receptive with fans that frankly makes me question his sense of self-preservation, taking a massive step back from all things SPN fandom to the extent that he barely talks about SPN even during a panel for an SPN convention.

Like? I'm fully aware this sounds insane because it is insane, but it's not the fans creating this insanity, we're just pointing it out and going "isn't this fucking insane?!"

At this point, it'd be weirder to not think anything was going on.

The finale isn't just bad it's spectacularly bad. Like there's not one redeemable aspect of it. It's so thoroughly bad I swear it HAD to be intentional.