#we're just as trans as the trans women and trans enbies

[sorinshuto]

I love how much transwomen are loved, it's genuinely great to see

But jesus christ where is the love for transmen? Everyone takes Okiku seriously but they don't take Yamato as seriously, especially in the dub

I follow so many transmen but how often do I see transmen posts vs transwomen posts? I see so many posts about beautiful women and its lovely to see, but where's the love for the men like me?

People will talk all day about girlcock and I love that for them, genuinely, but we need boypussy posts, we need love for the men who arent taken seriously, we need love for the men who dont even look like traditional men, we need love for the cis and trans and intersex men who have to put up with so much androphobia

I love you trans men, I love you cis men, I love you intersex men, if you identify even slightly as male, I fucking love you, I love you with all of my heart, men are amazing, especially trans men, you deserve more than you get and I'm so sorry people don't take you as seriously as you deserve, you deserve the world ♡

[the-acid-pear]

Cropping everything because I know this is just a harmless joke but imagine a girl was like man I sure love manly sports and people went oh you're a transman. straight up. 👍

[moodlesmain]

while im (takes a deep breath to hold back my rage) sympathetic to the fans of Those Wizard Books who're taking a death of the author approach so long as they're not supporting the series financially or actively promoting it and are sticking to fan communities, I really, *really* wish people would put away their merch. Because when I see someone in public with merch from it, I always have to wonder if I'm safe around them as a trans person, if my trans friends are safe. And that's a sucky feeling to have, especially when talking to people who otherwise seems perfectly fine and nice!!! A lot of HP fans are just, people!!! Who maybe don't know what the big deal is, or have chosen to deal with the problem by doubling down to spite the author!! But even when I know for a fact they're totally safe or even trans themselves, I don't want to be constantly reminded of the series whose author is an incredibly rich and powerful person whose whole agenda for the past several years has been to push back against the rights of people like me, and who people like my own god damn mother is more willing to listen to about trans people than her own nonbinary child.

I know it's irrational to feel surges of rage at the mere mention of a popular multimedia franchises, but while I know not every trans person is bothered by it, I also know that a lot of trans people and even allies *are* bothered by it. Just... begging for some understanding, and for people to just PLEASE dial back their fandom-ing in public spaces, especially mostly queer spaces. You don't know how much difference it might make in the comfort and feeling of safety for the trans people around you

[rederiswrites]

Sometimes I'm on here and y'all make posts that just make me go, "you are very young and would benefit from learning something about our culture in the last hundred years".

Yes, people are upset by trans and enby people, because their lives are entirely structured around the different roles of men and women, and the idea that men and women are fundamentally different and inherently suited to their traditional roles. Like, that shouldn't be a big realization. That was a major part of western culture until quite recently, and still is for a great many people. We attack their basic worldview by existing as ourselves. Obviously they're wrong, but that doesn't change the emotion of the situation.

Yes, conservative cis people act like marriage is a chore. For most of history, and certainly US colonial history, marriage was a social and economic necessity that created a working partnership. Attraction was certainly a hoped-for element but not strictly required, and love was a bonus, possibly even a bit suspect as a motivation. It was still like this when my grandparents married. I know couples today who are separated but married for financial reasons. We're not talking about the distant past. Marriage has been many things through the years, and "an equal partnership based on love" is a very recent iteration. Of course our culture is littered with artifacts of the older way. The older way was like...yesterday. Today.

Yes, Grandma has trouble at the grocery store checkout. When she was a kid they had rotary phones and radios, and you paid for everything with cash. She grew up in a culture that taught that childhood was for learning and adulthood was for doing, and now the world is asking her to learn a bunch of new things that basically sound like magic, and she's not even sure she can, and she's not at all sure it's an improvement (and she's got a point, though she might not know it).

There's just....a real lack of perspective. I dunno, watch some documentaries about the fifties. Read some historical novels. Go to the local Victorian house tour.

[ftmtftm]

Do you really think its more plausable that a TERF knows the specific details of the Baeddel discourse so well that they can craft the perfect copypasta that refrences all the nuances of internal trans discourse (which I'm sorry but they don't really understand anything about our community) in such a way as to be the maximum level of offensive to the other side than the alternative, that there exists on this site a trans man capable of sexually harassing trans women who disagree with him? I

Are all trans mascs sexual harassers? obviously not. Are you responsible for that guy's actions in any way? No not at all. But I find the inistance that any sexual misconduct or transmisogyny purported to be from a trans masc is an outsider troll to be very off putting from the perspective of a trans woman. I think there is a problem of trans women being treated like sex objects by the broader trans community, (enby's trans mascs etc). The problem will never be resolved if we can't even aknowledge it exists without getting shouted down.

Yes actually because that is what Radfems on Tumblr do and have done and will continue to do for literally the entire time I've been on Tumblr.

Just being completely clear - I mentioned this already but to be extra extra clear - It was not even my original idea that it was probably a Radfem and I've directly said that. I honestly thought it was probably one of the trans guys that white knights extremely hard against the idea of transandrophobia trying to cause shit because of the typing style.

It was in fact my trans fem ex-gf and current very close friend who I still live with, who suggested to me that she thought it was a Radfem. And you know?

Her reasoning combined with my experiences with TERFs actively trying to recruit my friends and I into Radical Feminism because we're actively Feminist trans mascs - it would make a ton of sense.

You have probably not experienced this because you are not a trans masc, but there is absolutely a subgroup of Radfems on this website that try very hard to learn about trans infighting as a way to target trans mascs for recruitment.

Trans masculine people have HUGE targets on our back for Radfem recruitment on this website. It's something I've literally personally seen people fall into and detransition for. Radblr actively loves to target vulnerable, politically vocal trans mascs as recruitment targets, especially doing so by trying to pit us against each other, especially by trying to pit us and trans women against each other.

It's scary as hell. It's also not a new thing by any means. Like, "This has been happening consistently at least since 2015" level of not a new thing. So, I've learned to become very aware of it because I'm a trans masc who is a Feminist advocate who actively studies the history and tactics of Radical Feminism in order to protect myself and other trans people from it.

I'm also sorry, but there was literally an anon like that that went around trans masculine blogs a few months ago. Exactly the same premise but flipped in a "transandrodorks need to be fixed by being impregnated with girlcock" kind of deal. There was an almost immediate "we need to assume this isn't actually a trans fem and assume that it is a troll" response both internally and externally. If any of us had assumed it was actually a trans fem in the same way and projected our pain at trans fems in the same way this is getting projected onto trans mascs...? Could you imagine? The double standard would be insane.

I know this is something coming from a place of our own hurt, but where the hell was any of our support during that? What were we supposed to do besides assume that it was probably a troll? Like those are hypotheticals without real answers, but come on? You know?

Of course anything is possible. No one knows who that anon actually was. And it is an issue the way trans women are sexualized by the community, especially right now on Tumblr. It deserves to be addressed. But not in the weeds like this.

I believe what I believe based on what I know and the thoughts and feelings of people I trust. You can dislike that, you can even disagree with that, but a stranger coming into my askbox with a condescending tone isn't really going to contest my lived experiences or the shared opinion of someone I've known for the better part of a decade that easily.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for pressuring my friend to listen to women who make pop music?

(🏳️‍🌈 to find this)

so in my (25M) friend group (mid-20s) we're all at least some flavor of queer - I'm a gay guy, there's two enbies, a trans woman, a lesbian, a pan girl, a bi guy... so this is about the bi guy, let's call him Josh.

Josh is a pretty chill dude, he's a good friend and I can't complain about him as a person. but he listens to very uhh "traditionally" masculine music - I looked up some of the bands from his Spotify playlist and all I could find was, quote "metal, heavy metal, power metal, gothic metal, nu metal, metalcore"... and yk what, I do think some metal artists are fine af with their long hair and their muscles, I do think they have talent... I have NOTHING against them. however it is known their audience has never been particularly queer-friendly. personally I prefer to hype up women and I LOVE pop stars, this isn't just me - some of my online mlm friends love women pop stars as much as I do.

I started telling Josh he could get into pop artists as well. he's respectful when it comes to what I like but he's not into it. I won't lie to you I feel like he just says it's not his kind of music without even giving it a chance. I kept telling him to try, and eventually Josh told me to stop pressuring him. he also said something like "dude there's no right or wrong way to be queer, I'm bi regardless of what I listen to". tbh I had no idea I was making him feel that way. I apologized bc I felt like an asshole who "gatekeeps" being queer, but I'm also a dramatic overthinker so was I TAH in this situation or am I just thinking too much?

[forgotten-daydreamer]

I love how inclusivity is handled in The Dragon Prince, here's why.

In most shows, as much as it bothers me to admit so, some people are right, inclusivity does feel forced sometimes. But it's not the characters' fault, it's not because of them being part of the lgbtq+ community, or being disabled, or being POC, or being strong women who do not conform to patriarchal standards.

It's not that.

It's that the show they are part of is a straight, white, abled parade - and notice, most of said shows won't even pass the Bechdel test.

So yes, in a show written by and aimed to straight, white, abled people, even I, a gay, non-binary, chronically ill person feel weird seeing charcters that are there just for the sake of inclusivity, albeit 'inorganic'.

In a show with the premise of "straight, white, abled men are the indiscussed MCs", seeing that one side-character that stands out and is often ridiculed and/or reduced to a single trait of their 'personality', such as 'the gay one', 'the asian one', 'the disabled one' (etc) is upsetting and feels uncomfortable as hell.

But TDP is different.

They immediately introduced powerful women, people of color, characters that are openly part of the lgbtq+ community, disabled characters etc. And not one of them per 'category', no. For the lgbtq+ community we have Amaya, Janai, Runaan, Ethari, Terry, Kazi. For the disabled community, we have Amaya again, Villads, and even a disabled wolf Ava. For the POC community, we have literally half of the cast, starting from King Harrow, then Ezran, every sunfire elf, Terry as well, etc. Same goes for women, who take up on roles that are rarely considered 'for women', like Opeli being the main member of the High Council, Amaya being the General, Rayla being the main Dragon Guard, Claudia being one of the main antagonists, etc.

Both main and side-characters are part of the communities, everything is so much more organic, enjoyable, thrilling.

We do not come in 'minor quantity'.

We are everywhere, among others, living our lives, doing our best, existing, thriving, proud. It's not just one or two of us among thousands. Surprise, 'categories' can mix! Just like I, a real human being, can be gay, enby as well as chronically ill, we can have characters like that as well! Amaya being lesbian and disabled, Terry being black and trans, Janai being black and lesbian, etc. And, another surprise, 'categories' don't define us. We don't 'shove it' in anyone's face like they say we do, we're just being us and cishets are upset because we don't conform to their sick standards.

Inclusivity is organic in TDP because nobody in that universe questions anyone else's color, gender, orientation, etc. And it's organic because we didn't have to wait half a season to see a black character, or a disabled character, or a gay character.

The key to inclusivity is to realise that we aren't just 'bonuses'. Fill shows and comics with lgbtq+, POC, disabled, and female characters. Not just one every 15, 20 characters. Everywhere.

We are everywhere! We are proud! We deserve to be seen! We deserve to be depicted as the normal people we are, without diminishing our traits but without making them our whole personality either. Treat us like human beings, be considerate like you should be with everyone on the planet of course, but treat us like humans.

Antagonising people who are 'different' (in the mind of straight, white, abled people) will not suppress us. We will keep insisting until you hear us. It's literally one of the main messages, one of the main teachings of TDP and it's so damn important.

Every single person on Earth should watch it. Every single kid should be introduced to TDP at an early age. Every old bigot should watch it, as well. Everybody. Even if it's considered a y7 (y10 for s4 and s5 apparently) show, everyone, no matter their age, should give it a try and watch it thoroughly.

Lots of love to the creators and everyone, literelly everyone involved in the production of one the best, most entertaining, most exciting, most formative shows ever. Please, keep it up! And thank you so much!

[genderqueerdykes]

whats your banner about? /genq btw cuz i personally havent seen anything abt that so if u could fill me in on it id appreciate that

/not forced to answer, im just curious abt it

hey sure i'm happy to elaborate!

it's in response to the amount of folks who deem it okay to refuse to let transmascs and men into non binary and queer spaces because mascs and men "scare women and enbies" or are "unsafe to be around" or even "look too cis and make people uncomfortable". i've seen a massive pushback lately to completely and totally remove transmascs and men from the queer community because men are "dangerous". the same hatred and vitriol that people have for cishet men is being applied to trans men. ESPECIALLY straight trans men. straight trans men are treated like absolute shit and are labeled as dangerous and predatory.

i've also had the unfortunate displeasure of overhearing MANY queer folks that trans men aren't queer or trans, we're just "confused" or "butch lesbians". like i have heard this from other trans people. it's an unfortunate reality that some people literally refuse to see trans men and mascs as queer, because for some reason people view queerness as feminine or gender neutral only. i've literally heard people say that trans men can't call ourselves trannies because we're not trans. like i have seriously been told by numerous people that trans men AREN'T trans, and that "that's not what being trans means." i've met so many people who think the only way to be trans is transfem and it's been painful

i've unfortunately befriended several transfems who would gladly go on tirades and rants about how transmascs and men bring a "bad light" to the community, that trans men and mascs are insufferable and dangerous to be around because testosterone can "turn you into a monster," and i've even been told that i'm ruining my body. i've been told that people don't view me as trans because nobody WANTS to be a man for anything but nefarious reasons. many people say that trans men want to be men so they can engage in the patriarchy and oppress other people. i've been told by some people that they believed i transitioned so i could "have more power"

i got tired of seeing people think it's okay to ostracize trans men because they have trauma they need to work on. people blame the entirety of men and manhood on their problems, and project it on to trans men. it's sad and insidious. i've heard from SO MANY trans mascs and men who literally just do not feel comfortable in any queer spaces they try to attend because of how ostracized they feel, or how people would bully them and tell them they were just a confused butch lesbian, tomboy, or masculine girl.

hope that made sense to you! some people have really charged and heated opinions about trans men and mascs and if we belong in the queer community. i got sick of it. femininity, womanhood and gender neutrality are not the only ways to be queer

[this-is-exorsexism]

I just saw a post about how transmasc and transfem aren't labels you can "opt out of," how if you transition like this then you ARE transmasc and if you transition like that then you ARE transfem, whether you like it or not. Because it's just a "fact" about your transition, not an identity.

And it just made me so sad. I'm transneutral. Sure, my transition might look binary to an outside observer. Yeah, people might look at me now and see me as far more masculine than I was before I transitioned. But that's other people. Not me.

Does this count as exorsexism? I feel like it does but I'm also worried that they're right, and maybe my identity is offensive and maybe I AM lying for not calling myself transmasc. I don't know. I just feel really bad and insecure right now.

this is exorsexism.

through and through.

i'm assuming this post was by a trans person, because cis people tend to be less educated about trans terminology in the first place, and will often just parrot whatever is popular but not think of it any further.

a lot of trans people, even some nonbinary people, seem to be really invested in upholding the gender binary in its various forms. "these are the two options you have, and you cannot be neither" is just gender binary 2.0.

people want to group especially nonbinary people by our AGAB, because a lot of people can't handle the fact that us simply saying "i'm nonbinary" doesn't give them any information about our AGAB, about "where we came from" the way that "trans woman" or "trans man" does. never mind the fact that some intersex people who were (c)afab are trans women and some intersex people who were (c)amab are trans men, but these people usually aren't just exorsexist, they're intersexist too. if the term "trans woman" doesn't necessarily tell you what gender someone was assigned at birth anymore, apparently the term loses all its meaning, since everything hinges on AGAB... somehow. but i digress.

and people have definitely started using transmasculine and transfeminine as "acceptable" shorthands for AGAB language, whether they admit it or not. if you were afab, your only options are cis woman, trans man or transmasculine nonbinary, and if you're transmasculine nonbinary we treat you like a man anyway, and vice versa for amab folk.

bonus points if it all hinges on transition steps, i.e. if you were amab and take oestrogen, you're automatically transfem regardless of how you identify (and if you don't take enough transition steps you're basically cis anyway - their line of thinking, not mine).

because we're definitely dismantling cissexism by still acting as if hormones are inherently masculine or feminine. we're definitely deconstructing the gender binary by just changing the words from male and female to transmasc and transfem. (heavy sarcasm)

so much of it goes back to people really just upholding cissexism and the binary, probably without even realising it. by saying it's about "what we were born as" or about how we transition, people are just using the same violence on nonbinary people as cis people use on all trans people. just because cis people assume you're masculine, trans people somehow think it's what you want and do it as well.

transmasc and transfem nonbinary people obviously exist. it's part of many people's identity. others actually do just use the term as a shorthand to what they're transitioning from, where they're transitioning to, how they're transitioning, certain experiences of transmisia, etc. and that's fine - if you use it like that for yourself and don't force it onto others.

and people also love framing words that have a heavy nonbinary association as somehow offensive, dirty or otherwise bad. people will go so far to avoid saying the word "nonbinary", they hate the word "enby", in fact, they hate when we have any term that is more specific than nonbinary, and they also hate our trans- terms, be it transneutral, transandrogynous or the many others. they really hate when we're actually somewhat equal.

[talisidekick]

The patriarchy isn't gendered in it's evil. It's a collaborative approach. It can't uphold itself if there aren't women and men supporting it's views.

We talk about toxic masculinity and the threats men pose with the power and privilege given to them under patriarchal systems, but what about the toxic femininity wielded by misogynistic women? What about the unique level of power the patriarchy gives to women who conform, and strips from women, men, non-binary, etc. who do not?

There's women who uphold the patriarchy, and they are the backbone to the whole structure. The validation and vindication to do the harm it does to others.

If you need a taste, take a look at how 'gender critical' and transphobic women justify why trans women aren't women. They use 'biological essentialism', the same ideology that gives patriarchal men the absolute ability to prey on women citing a biological need that absolves them of guilt and wrong doing, to paint transgender women as nothing but predatory men by matter of biology. That by being born sexually male, an AMAB person can never be a woman because they are bound exclusively by biological whims they cannot control that AFAB people do not have. They don't chastise cisgender men for this supposed biological difference, as if it's okay to have these supposed 'uncontrollable urges' being a cisgender man. They further back up this false claim by pointing to any behavior if transgender women that is loud, flashy, gaudy, dominant, etc. claiming that even identifying as women, we're unable to act like women, as if to say that being a woman is to act modest, quiet, submissive, etc. I remember not men, but women and mothers telling their children not to speak unless spoken to, not to complain, not to dress flashy, etc, to their daughters growing up. Never their sons.

Toxic femininity is real, it exists, and it supports the same system toxic masculinity does and I want to see crumble. I want a world filled with just as many loud, gaudy, flashy, and rebellious girls, women, enbies, etc. as I see men.

I need three things from the world:

I need cisgender women and men who are staunchly against the patriarchy to stop treating the transgender assault by 'gender criticals' as a "trans only issue".

I need people to recognize that men, cisgender and transgender, aren't an inherent enemy, which means learning to identify toxic masculinity from masculinity. Which is essentially learning that anytime masculinity or an aspect of it is framed as "above women" or "above other men", and "below women" or "below other men"; that it's the toxic kind of masculinity.

I need people to recognize women, cisgender and transgender, aren't the inherent victims, which means learning to identify toxic femininity from femininity. Which is essentially learning any time femininity or an aspect of it is framed as "below men" or "above other women", and "above men" or "below other women"; that it's the toxic kind of femininity.

Ending the binary gender hierarchy is how this system fails. Masculinity and femininity under a patriarchal system is oppressively wielded against women, men, those outside the gender binary, and those that exist within but don't conform, but masculinity and femininity are not it's tools. It appropriates them, and redefines them to hurt those it wants to force into a mold. It makes existing outside it's definitions painful where the easy salvation is conformity.

I propose a different tactic: rebellion.

[our-abinary-experience]

let's talk about anti-xenogender bigotry, as it often reveals a lot of how people see gender, and especially nonbinary gender.

this post in particular is inspired by a reddit post i found by accident when i just wanted to download the xenogender flag (lol).

the post was shared by a trans woman who claimed that xenogenders aren't genders and thus not valid. she made sure though to say that she totally supports nonbinary people.

her first point on why xenogenders don't exist was that how valid a gender is is determined by its societal support, and since xenogenders are only supported in "fringe extremist "trans" spaces", they aren't real.

firstly, interesting that any trans person who supports xenogender people gets their trans card revoked. we're no longer trans, we're "trans".

secondly, hinging the validity of a gender on the amount of social support it has directly contradicts with her supposed support of nonbinary people. maybe she happens to live in the most nonbinary-friendly place ever, but overall, the very concept of nonbinary gender does not have a lot of societal support. so, according to her logic, nonbinary people are inherently less valid than binary people. some might even say that only fringe extremist "trans" spaces support nonbinary people. and, while trans itself is not a gender, if we add gender modality to the mix, then binary trans people don't exactly have massive societal support either. as a trans woman, does she consider her womanhood less valid than cis women's? basing the validity of a gender on societal support doesn't make any sense because there actually isn't a single monolithic society, and the societies that have historically recognised and celebrated more than two genders have been forcibly binarised by white european colonisers. did nonbinary gender become less valid over time and now it's slowly gaining validity as support for us is slowly growing? none of her logic in this makes sense. her rhetoric is inherently exorsexist and binarist, not just against xenogenders but basically against any nonbinary gender which she claims to support, and against cultural genders too.

the "societal support" argument completely falls apart because it means that every marginalised identity of any kind is inherently less valid and less real. she's revealing her bigotry here: it's not really about societal support, it's about which genders she arbitrarily decides are real and valid.

her second argument why xenogenders are not real was that any gender that exists outside of a triangle of male, female and genderless doesn't exist. you can only slide between those, like being hallway between male and genderless or in the middle of all three, but not outside. this is the classic gender trinary of male/female/agender and it's how i used to see gender as a baby enby.

firstly, gender isn't bound to whatever spectrum you personally decide is acceptable. there are many ways to be outside of that triangle besides xenogenderness. this logic basically says that the only valid way to be abinary is to be agender. not even abinary men or women exist in that logic, since the concept of abinary doesn't exist besides agenderness.

so, how can someone say she supports nonbinary people while saying a whole lot of us aren't real, even the ones who aren't xenogender, simply because she, as a binary person, thinks she has the right to decide what the gender spectrum looks like and whose gender is real and whose isn't?

all her points on why xenogenders aren't real also apply to multiple or all nonbinary genders. especially coming from a binary person, it reveals a huge ignorance to the nonbinary experience as well as a very narrow view of gender.

we're all in this together. clearly, exorsexists can't tell the difference between someone who is xenogender or someone who is, for example, ilyagender, or maybe even someone who happens to be within that gender triangle but within that have a gender that is not socially supported, like proxvir.

this is all the more reason for all of us nonbinary people to stick together and not draw lines in the sand about which nonbinary gender is valid and acceptable. if something harms one of us, they always end up harming all of us in some way. we're in this together.

[justalittleratman]

idea: instead of afab and amab, we could say cisfem-perceived and cismasc-perceived?

I've been meaning to talk about cisperception for a while, which is a term i made up to talk about the differences in experiences by people who are visibly trans, and people who are perceived as cis (regardless of if they are or not) and i just thought it could maybe be used in this way also

are there any obvious reasons for this to be a bad idea that I'm missing? /gen

more explanations and elaborations on the terms below :3 (quite long)

.

cisfem-perceived would mean a person that is perceived as a cisfeminine person (going away from female/woman to include intersex people that are not necessarily perceived as women but are still perceived as fem, as well as removing any mention or reference to sex and focusing on gender instead), meaning that their gender expression is perceived as being the gender expression of a cisfem person.

in discussions about trans non-binary people, I've seen a lot of reluctance from trans *binary* people to call those who are not visibly trans, trans, because there is a difference in experience between trans people who are visibly trans, and those who "pass" as cis. specifically trans non-binary people whose gender expressions aren't androgynous and conform to binary gender norms. i felt the need to use a new term because the language used to discuss the differences in experiences would often be transphobic or could be perceived as transphobic. i wanted a way to talk about it with language that wouldn't imply or give the impression that cisperceived trans people are not trans enough to be considered trans. because they ARE trans. i also wanted to move away from "passing" in my language because it's very unclear, subjective, etc. I think using language around perception shifts the focus on how people view us and *their* perception, rather than if we have achieved something arbitrary in our transition such as "passing" or not. (if this is unclear i can elaborate)

i think it's important to note differences in experience because the transphobia that cisperceived trans people and transperceived trans people are subjected to is very different. (not trans enough vs too trans) ((i can elaborate if wanted/needed but i think we're all aware of the different forms transphobia can take and how gender expression modifies what types we're subjected to))

.

examples :

non-binary person whose gender expression aligns with cisfem gender expression: cisfem-perceived

non-binary person whose gender expression is gender non conforming: trans-perceived/gnc-perceived and/or anything else that the person feels is accurate for them

transfem person who has not started transitioning yet: cismasc-perceived

intersex person whose gender expression aligns with cisfem gender expression: cisfem-perceived

intersex person whose gender expression is ambiguous, gender non-conforming, etc : trans-perceived, enby-perceived , intersex-perceived (this term would be exclusive to intersex people) , and/or anything else they feel is accurate to them

transmasc person who has started transitioning and is visibly trans : trans-perceived / transmasc-perceived / queer-perceived, etc

transfem person whose gender expression doesn't conform to fem conformity : trans-perceived / transfem-perceived or even cismasc-perceived when talking about contexts in which they are treated like other cismasc people (example: exclusion from "everything but men" spaces), etc

pls let me know if you have questions/need me to elaborate <33

also feel free to point out if anything i said is insensitive, incorrect, transphobic, intersexphobic, etc /gen /nf

[spacelazarwolf]

i just keep thinking abt how that guy said "its transphobia and misogyny. let your experiences unite you with cis women, trans women, and enbies, not separate you"

and like idk its like we can't use transmisndry/transandrophobia/atm/etc bc its transmisogynistic. but we also cant use transmisogyny bc thats only for trans fems and trans women. but we cant use misogyny either bc we're not women. like you said it doesnt matter what word(s) we use or even if we don't use any words at all, they still get mad at us.

but also, why does us trying to give a name to our experiences separate us from those groups? all of those groups can experience atm in various ways. why is it that using the term transmisogyny does not separate trans fems from those groups? why does using the term exorsexism does not separate enbies from that group? (assuming these people even agree exorsexism exists, some of them dont)

and the assumption that all of those identities listed are completely separate really bothers me. all of those can and do overlap. how can i as a transfemmasc multigender enby, separate myself from those groups by describing some of my experiences, when i AM those groups?

(im not going to even bother with the fact that cis men weren't included, we already know why)

imo it's because the idea that women (and people they can group in with women) forming separatist groups and separating themselves from MenTM is actually feminist and girlboss and just Protecting Them From Their Oppressors, whereas any other group doing it (not even just men as a group, but i see this shit happen to jews, black people, indigenous people, people with closed practices, etc.) is just trying to make themselves feel special or they think they're better than everyone else. also people just still straight up do not believe trans men are oppressed.

also it's particularly hilarious bc like. so much conversation around anti transmasculinity is about the fact we share a lot of experiences with both cis women and trans women. i can't tell you how many butch cis women, intersex people, and trans women and femmes have expressed to me that they have experienced something similar to what i describe in my posts. and the thing is, we have been talking about this kind of thing in queer circles for forever. we've talked about how butches are demonized because of their masculinity, we've talked about how trans women are forced to present as feminine as possible so as not to be seen as a threat, we've talked about how nonbinary people who were assigned male at birth and choose to present more masculine are demonized and stripped of their identity. but putting a name to it means there's a systemic problem in our community, not just Problematic Individuals Who Are Bad Who Are Totally Not Us So We Don't Need To Unpack Any Of Our Biases Uwu.

[transmascpetewentz]

Intro + Basic Stuff

It has been 5 days since a transandrophobe has been horrifyingly disrespectful of a gay trans man who died of AIDS on one of my posts or in my inbox.

It has been 3 days since a cis gay man has whined about his genital preference in my notes and/or inbox when I didn't ask.

If you're here because someone accused me of being a TERF, please know that I am not. Read this for more details.

I can't think of a name to use on this blog so just refer to me either by my URL or a silly nickname. My BYF as well as a few blinkies are under the cut.

my pronouns are he/him, but any are fine if you're clearly using them to show that you respect me. they/them is generally okay as long as you aren't using them to dehumanize me.

i prefer gendered terms (boy, girl, enby) over neutral terms, but i will block you if you use "girl" in a misgendering sense. malewife and similar terms are fine. also, this is highly unlikely to come up, but please don't call me "queen."

i'm USAmerican, and when i'm talking about issues, i'm likely talking about USAmerica unless i indicate otherwise.

i'm currently having brainrot about: fall out boy, american idiot, red white and royal blue, fallout new vegas, and velvet goldmine (the 1998 film).

i also post untagged discourse on this blog, specifically talking about transmasc issues, trans liberation, queer liberation, and how to be normal about transmascs if you aren't one.

i'm also looking into converting to judaism, and as such i might post about conversion and judaism in general. filter #judaism if you don't want to see it.

i'm part of a system, so it might not always be the same person answering asks. i probably won't post about it mostly because i want to stay out of syscourse.

all original posts are #wentz.txt, asks are #asks. if i ever have photos of myself on here, they'll be #wentz.jpg.

this blog runs on a queue, so just because i post doesn't mean i've been online recently.

this is my alternate account. i have a main blog that i'm ignoring due to harassment. if you have me blocked on my main and try to follow me here, i'm blocking you for your own sake.

cis women are welcome to follow but don't touch any of my posts making fun of cis gay men or i will bite you.

blog rules:

no, i'm never sharing my age on here.

tag filtering: flashing, eyestrain, loud, violence cw, sexual assault cw, pedophilia cw, self harm cw, suicide cw, not worksafe, long post, anon hate, arguing with bigots, fascism cw.

please do not ask me about whether i am pro or anti ship, whether i support endogenic systems, or my views on intracommunity issues i'm not part of.

i'm autistic and as such might not understand if i'm making you uncomfortable. please either block me or DM me and tell me to stop doing something.

i won't reblog your callout post, reblog bait, guilt tripping, or donation post. an exception might be made for your donation post if we're mutuals.

if i don't block you, then i don't mind you following me. i don't softblock. please don't softblock me either, just block or else i'll refollow.

if i have reblogs enabled on a post, i'm fine with anyone reblogging it. if i have replies enabled, i'm fine with anyone replying.

if you're going to send anon hate, it has to be interesting, original, funny, and/or creative.

also, if you're going to send anon hate, please refrain from calling me slurs, sending me death threats, sexually harassing me, or misgendering me. also, please censor the name sh***a, or don't use the name at all in your ask.

i don't really have a dni, but i will block you if: you fetishize gay men or trans men, you support capitalism and/or cops, you glorify the actions of the ussr, you deny that transandrophobia exists, you think that feminine cis men are more oppressed than feminine trans men.

actually, i have to add a dni now: please dni if you falsely accuse gay men who died of aids of sexual assault. yes, someone like this tried to interact with me.

That should be it for now!

[cagandante-communistoide]

hi i was the tma intersex ask and i also happen to be non-binary! and i feel the same way about being placed under binary people and it's honestly so incredibly isolating because tma people's genders are held to such strict standards that not many of us even feel comfy publicly labelling ourselves as enby (ESPECIALLY gender neutral.. and god forbid we're agender or genderfluid or use neopronouns!!)

the thing is i do still label myself as that regardless, at least online and around other trans people.. and the more you get to know transfems the more you'll realise how many of them are actually secretly non-binary but are too afraid to say it and publicly present themselves as completely binary women because even that isn't taken seriously but it's at least a step above being a gender that the majority of the world doesn't even believe exists in the *first* place

and tbh sometimes i wonder what is the point of defending our right to use tme/tma when we end up just saying *trans women" and "anyone who isn't a trans woman" *anyway*, like the reason why i prefer those terms is because it's completely ungendered (but still acknowledges how society genders us) like tme enbies are out here feeling misgendered or attacked by the word tme while completely ignoring the fact that tma enbies exist and that tma is the only way of talking about our own oppression without misgendering ourselves.. tbh they probably don't think tma people can be non-binary anyway

and honestly just like my last ask.. even though my gender is completely outside of the bounds of male/female, i *am* still placed in a binary whether i like it or not.. i am either a tme enby or a tma enby based on many factors including how i medically transition and how i express my gender

and i 100% believe that society treats trans women as women (as much as they like to call them men) simply because i am also treated like a trans woman despite being tma.. just for being someone who was assigned male and transitioning in a similar way to many transfems (despite never being asked to be treated like a woman ever)

i still end up experiencing the struggles of most women but even worse because i'm tma.. and notice how it's very similar to how no-med enbies who were assigned female are treated (minus the transmisogyny), we're both treated as women, we both get shit for not performing womanhood enough, we both get harassed for being gnc, we both get harassed for wanting surgeries to remove/change our "female" parts (if you're a transfem who has ever considered top surgery to remove breasts after going on estrogen you'll know EXACTLY what i'm talking about)

and the only difference is that it's worse for us because we experience transmisogynistic exorsexism not just the general misogynistic exorsexism they deal with

like if anything there should be solidarity between us but instead they want to pretend we don't exist and maybe pretend to feel bad for a trans woman once in a while, what about the tma people in your *own* community? is it harder for you to acknowledge that someone with the exact same gender as you can be tma and you're not? do you even know any tma people with a similar gender to yours?

it sucks tbh being ostracised from the transfem community for being enby and even *more* ostracised from the enby community for being tma..

^

can't get over that one time i heard someone say "binary privilege isn't real." You just know that person's idea of a nonbinary person is a """made up xenogender""" or boygirldyke AFAB person identifying as trans "for fun". Or worse: "basically men" and "basically women". We don't register as a real group of people with real genders and real material consequences for it even to the most gender liberated people because to regender or degender under the gender binary is to unperson yourself if you can't be shoved back into your AGAB, esp if you are TMA. When it happens to a binary gendered person, they notice. When it happens to us, we're just not real humans who live in the real world and experience real things. I wonder if they would say the same if they had to look an enben in the face after they got done talking about how on top of having to strictly conform to gender roles to be referred for healthcare, the transmedicalist healthcare system for trans healthcare defines the vast majority of nonbinary people out of existence and you have to prove to your GP your gender even EXISTS, just so you can get misgendered anyway everywhere you go because NB people can never ever pass before saying "actually there's no difference between the way I am treated as someone who everyone agrees my gender even exists and you, someone who will never ever be included under 'men and women' no matter how trans inclusive we make the gender binary." sounds a lot to me like binary privilege and exorsexism are real.

[quark-nova]

Do including t4t folks who date outside their gender include nblnb and nblm/nblw? Does it include people in these groups who are in an AMAB+AFAB relationship? IDK if this is tmi, I'm AMAB transneutral enby, my husband is a AFAB trans man. We've been together a decade , he's currently also pregnant: we're in the process of having a child. Whenever we bring up our relationship in t4t spaces, people either treat me like a cis man who doesn't belong in these spaces and as if our relationship is basically c4t MLM, or treat him as as a bi butch woman as opposed to a trans man especially when people found out he was pregnant and wasn't interested in his explicitly queer masculinity and transition making him identical to a cis man.

Plus, neither of us really pass due to how we present ourselves, I at most look like a flamboyant gay man, tall lanky hairy and bearded who plays around with makeup expression but doesn't gravitate towards feminine wear. He's gendered as a butch lesbian almost exclusively as opposed to a man, he doesn't bind which alone gets him misgendered, he wears masc clothing but a variety of factors in which he presents himself and even basic things such as how his voice sounds are enough for him to lose that association with manhood and gets him clocked. Do I need to be transfem and transition to look like a woman for our relationship to be seen as "t4t" enough? I'm not a trans woman or transfem and I'll never be, does that make me a cis invader incroaching on actual t4t people? Does he have to transition specifically in a way to fit cis centric standard of manhood, does he have to desire top and bottom surgery as opposed to "just" hormones in order to be seen as his actual gender in t4t spaces? Are t4t people not allowed to have children nautrally, does that makes us too close to cishets in their eyes for people's comfort?

We have mutual nblnb friends , same AMAB+AFAB, agender + multigender. Both of them present in ways that align with their AGAB, they're not men or women but their relationship in t4t spaces has been dismissed and treated as a "cishet relationship" constantly, with them being actively misgendered even in trans positive spaces. Are they just straight too, silly little cishets who want to hog up t4t resources from? Do t4t relationships only count as queer if they're binary/binary? If both people have the same gender? If people go through full medical transition? If they're both the same AGAB? What makes t4t inherently worthy in the eyes of people within the community, none of us are aware because we've all been actively excluded or dismissed for one reason or another, had our transness intrinsically erased due to not being the "expected" t4t couple.

The way people talk about t4t as this club which queerness is so narrow and if you fall out of what's expected for t4t you're basically straight? There are straight t4t people who are awesome and face their own isolation within queer spaces that I cannot speak on, so I won't. Having different AGABs or not being strictly MLM/WLW just feels like a quick way to get misgendered or to have your queerness and transness taken into question. It sucks. T4T is celebrated but only if you're a certian type of T4T.

Yes, both you and your friends should absolutely be included in T4T discussions! These are an extremely valuable experiences that you're bringing, and dismissing it as "c4t" or "cishet" is just misgendering. NB4NB relationships are not any less queer, and they're not "cishet lite" just for being of different AGABs - once more, it's reducing nonbinary people down to their AGAB, which is sad to see so often in queer/trans spaces.

I haven't been in T4T relationships myself so I can't comment on the isolation that some kinds of T4T relationships face, but it's absolutely true that some types get talked about more than others, creating unfair expectations for people whose relationships don't fit inside this norm. Which is sad, as subverting expectations of gender like you do is as queer as queer can be!