#wayward son meta

[s0fter-sin]

i’d love to know how much of early day's spn subtext was deliberate or just a happy accident bc the subplot of 1x08 bugs is sam and dean butting heads about how they were raised and sam hating it while dean tells him he should accept it as they protect a family; predominantly a father and son

the father and son argue bc the son is different and not who the father wants him to be while the son feels ignored and shunned (aka sam). sam spends the episode empathising with him and telling him he can look forward to going to college to get away from him just like he did while dean cuts in to say he should stick with his family

the entire episode, dean defends john and the way he raised them ("maybe he needed to raise his voice but sometimes you were out of line"), it even starts with him and sam arguing over their illegal ways of making money and how they were brought up in the life; dean adapting to and enjoying it and sam wanting to be honest and straight

they talk about sam being sure john is and always has been disappointed in him just for dean to say john used to go to stanford whenever he could to check on him and something about his expression is so bitter; like he knows john would never express that care for him

but at the climax when they're trying to get matt to convince his dad to leave, sam is the one telling him to tell the truth and make his dad listen whereas dean tells him to lie; implying he wouldn't trust his son enough to believe him

he outright scoffs at sam and asks him what he was thinking for trying to get matt to tell the truth

the entire episode, dean is advocating for the kid to work it out (almost to just take it) and stay with his family but when push comes to shove, he tells him to lie

sam who spent years resenting john and his family for how they were raised, fell back on "making him listen"; echoing all the arguments he had with john, trying to force him to understand who he is while john's too blinded by vengeance to even begin to try. the same way sam refuses to see how they were raised and why they were raised that way from john’s point of view, hinting at how similar people they are (which still isn’t an excuse but also not the point rn)

dean winchester, the king of repression and masking (and fawning), dean who at this point is still staunchly defending john, tells a shunned kid with a harsh father to pretend in order for his father to care enough to listen to him and believe him

dean knows reasoning won't work bc he's watched it happen over and over again with sam and john

even the way matt tries to say, “but he’s my… (father)” feels like he’s coming over to dean’s point of view; that matt as a son respects his father to enough to tell the truth and no matter how much they’ve fought, that should trump everything. but dean still insists he lies. and matt tells the truth. and his father doesn’t listen

there's no way they intentionally made dean subconsciously know that a man raising his son in a mimicry of how john raised them wouldn't respect or trust his son enough to believe him about something potentially life threatening after half a season of john ignoring them about something potentially life threatening

right?

[lamentable-comedy]

The thing about Baz is that he's so good at not having the things he wants, but in a way that, like. Isn't repressing that he wants it in the first place. He acknowledges the desire, but denies any fulfillment of it and gets really, really good at doing that. His whole thing is carefully and deliberately maintaining a very rigid self control to compensate for how much of himself he feels like he is powerless over. You can't control the want, it's always gonna be there, but you can tell yourself it won't happen and refuse to consider indulging it.

He spends years knowing he's in love with Simon but wholeheartedly believing it's impossible that anything would happen between them AND, moreover, that it shouldn't. That second part is the important one, cause Baz isn't just against wanting things for its own sake, he's really hard on himself for wanting things that he thinks he shouldn't want or doesn't deserve. Like, "oh we can't have that, so it's Bad to want it". I think that's why there's less of the "I'm depraved, ask anyone" vibe to Baz's attraction to Simon in the second two books. I think he's still interested the same stuff with Simon, but because he now knows he can actually have a relationship with Simon, he's no longer moralizing wanting that, which I think leads to him being less likely to frame it as depravity in his own mind.

Also, if it wasn't obvious... this is a vampire thing. Like, Baz is like this because his daily existence is defined by craving something which would be morally wrong to take and which he therefore will never allow himself AND ALSO, Baz's vampirism is a really great metaphor for this part of his character. He forces himself to get by on more or less the bare minimum amount of blood. He doesn't drink humans. He can't control the desire for it, but it's an immoral desire and one he doesn't want, so he restricts himself as much as possible surrounding it. He never denies that the desire is there-- he can't-- but he DOES moralize wanting it; the fact that he wants to drink blood makes him an irredeemable monster who is unworthy of love and whom any Good Person would have killed. As a result, deny himself fulfillment becomes a way to punish himself (the Right Thing to do), for a desire he's disgusted by, and so he denies himself as much as possible, even beyond the extents of the desire itself.

Baz is ashamed of hunting and drinking animals, but he doesn't need to be. He's not doing anything worse than a human who hunts for food. But, because it betrays the deeper desire for human blood, it becomes shameful and something to deny himself when, really, it's neutral. Positive even, if you consider that it's a way of not, you know. Doing a murder. Compare Baz's perspective on it (not wanting Simon to see him drink rats, knowing what the bare minimum he needs to survive is in a way that clearly implies that he's tried only drinking that) to Simon's in "Snow for Christmas", where he expresses admiration and affection for how Baz looks feeding. Simon's perspective is devoid of Baz's moralizing self-loathing, and presents his behaviour without the baggage Baz has placed on it. Denying himself animal blood is not necessary and serves no purpose. Caring for himself by feeding is admirable.

I see Baz learning to control his fangs when he eats, on a metaphorical level, as a step in learning to manage the kind of big, desperate want that he moralizes and then denies himself, which itself lets him inch a little toward lessening the shame he feels. He moderates the desire (controls his fangs) rather than restricting his actions (not eating in front of people). This allows him decouple the desire (vamp hunger) from unrelated activities that he attaches to it (eating food), and actually let himself partake in something that previously felt wrong (eat food without revealing his fangs). His desire for blood is immoral, so he can't have that. All hunger is now associated with hunger for blood, so he can't eat around humans because he can't reveal that he wants something that he's Not Allowed to want.

I don't think the end point of his progress on this is indulging in the desires he feels ashamed of. Sometimes there are reasons not to do something you can't help wanting to do (there are some pretty good reasons not to go around drinking humans). I do think Baz needs to be gentler on himself for wanting things that for whatever reason-- shame, self-hatred, what have you-- he believes he shouldn't want. He only does this with his love for Simon because it's reciprocated, which doesn't actually solve the problem, it just recategorizes Simon/their relationship as something okay to want. He needs to learn to stop punishing himself for wanting things even if they're desires he can't or shouldn't act on. I think by AWTWB he has made progress. He's getting there. But MAN do I have a lot of feelings about the fact that he's like this at all.

[bazzybelle]

Good Omens 2 and Wayward Son - A Fan's Commentary on Fandom Reactions

I’m going to start off by saying apologies for any obvious grammatical errors. I am writing purely from the heart here. 

Also, apologies to my Sandman friends. If you haven’t read The Simon Snow Trilogy, this will go over your heads. However, I have been going back and forth on writing this meta since the release of Good Omens 2, and I just finished reading a spectacular meta on queer ships becoming canon by @avelera, which you can find here (read it, it’s brilliant). Anyway, I feel now’s a good time to let out all of my feelings when it comes to Good Omens 2 and how similar it was to reading Wayward Son. 

Simon Snow friends, you all know that Wayward Son is my favourite book out of the trilogy. You also know that this can be considered a controversial take within the fandom. And I don’t mean that in a toxic way, this fandom is one of the more wholesome fandoms I’ve seen; But in the way of like… Wayward Son is itself a polarizing book. 

I say this, knowing full well what went down when Wayward Son was released. Perhaps I had the advantage of not being completely embroiled within the Simon Snow  fandom until after I’d finished reading the book, but I lived on the periphery. I followed Rainbow on Twitter (fuck you, I am not calling it X), I had saved some artwork on Pinterest (before I found out those were stolen, wherein I immediately unpinned them and deleted my fandom folders), and I was excited to get Wayward Son as soon as it came out. So much so that I asked my husband to go to the Indigo near his office and buy it because I wanted to read it right away. 

Friends, I demolished that book within a DAY. 

Then I read it again. And again. And again. 

Then I wrote my first fanfiction in eight years. 

This book changed me. But you all know that. I’ve talked about it often, and that’s not what this meta (Editorial? Opinion piece? Shouting into the void?) is about. 

What I am going to talk about is the amount of pure vitriol this book got once it was released. There was SO MUCH complaining about the book. It was too short! There was no point to it! Why aren’t Simon and Baz having sexy vampire sex? Why aren’t they living together (never mind that this was briefly discussed at the end of Carry On, but go off I guess)? 

And you know what’s even funnier? Within a couple of weeks (it might have even been days, I’m a little fuzzy on timelines) Rainbow announced the third book. We knew, right away, that Wayward Son was meant to be an in-between book! Rainbow, being a fandom person herself, has said time and time again that she had always considered Wayward Son as an in-between book, structured like The Empire Strikes Back within the Star Wars original trilogy. Like think of the in-between books of any series, they are ALWAYS the darkest ones. In order to fully appreciate the win in the end, you need to go through the tough shit. 

What I loved about Wayward Son was it took that idea and spun it. It went all “ok, yeah we dealt with the win, now let’s deal with the aftermath. Only then can we have the makeouts and sexy times these guys deserved.”  (and damn, did Any Way The Wind Blows deliver on that promise).

But I am getting away from myself again. Point is, it was always meant to be an in-between book. There was always meant to be a resolution at the end of the trilogy. But that sure as hell didn’t stop people from outright demanding Rainbow give them the happy ending NOW. Pestering her on Twitter, (not so much on Tumblr) demanding she do this, or do that, or “you better not kill Baz” (even though she has ALWAYS SAID SHE NEVER WOULD) or “they better not break up” (even though, narratively, it was heading in that direction). The closer the book got to release date, the more people complained about how awful Wayward Son was. 

It was really disheartening to see. 

Which is why I got really upset when the SAME THING happened after the release of Good Omens 2. 

(For clarification purposes, because several of my friends have spoken to me about their own personal issues with Good Omens 2. And you are all super fucking valid. I am strictly referring to the amount of anger I saw online because although Aziraphale and Crowley kissed, they didn’t have an immediate happily ever after. I am also speaking of the anger expressed because the season wasn’t wrapped up in a neat little bow.)

Like with the release of Wayward Son, people seemed to have forgotten that season 2 of Good Omens was meant to be an inbetween season. Neil Gaiman has not been shy to talk about that. He has said over and over again that Season 2 was always meant to be a bridge between the Good Omens he and Terry Pratchett wrote together, and the sequel they had been planning. 

What… did you all just forget about that? Do you not know how narrative writing works? 

It’s like people refused to take a step back and breathe for a second and appreciate the season for what it was. A beautiful romantic story (because, IT WAS! Just like Neil said it would be), as well as a lead up into what will be the epic, dramatic conclusion. No, instead people started demanding the happy ending NOW, and getting angry when Neil wouldn’t budge and offer more information (even though he never has before) (funny how people just… forgot that).

It was Wayward Son all over again.

Yeah, I’m not going to lie, I was crushed with the way Good Omens 2 left off. Just like I was so confused when Wayward Son ended out of the blue. You know what I did about that? I wrote fic, I read the book again, and I happily anticipated the upcoming final part that would tie up all the loose ends.

Know what I’m doing to heal after Good Omens 2? I’m looking at gifs, rewatching episodes, laughing at memes and crack, and hoping to all the gods of story writing that Amazon approves of a third season, so that Neil Gaiman can be allowed to finish the story he and Terry Pratchett built together.

It’s become sad to watch this feral hunger from fans demanding immediate gratification, and getting upset when it isn’t the ending or gratification they were expecting. Wayward Son came out after years of Carry On fans having nothing else but the one book. Like I said, I wasn’t part of the fandom then, so I don’t know how fans from 2015 felt upon learning they’d get more Simon and Baz. Same with Good Omens. I only really got into the fandom a few months before season 2 came out. So I don’t know how OG fans felt waiting and waiting and waiting. So maybe I have that going for me as an advantage, that my hunger wasn’t growing more and more feral. 

Then again, I’m now a part of The Sandman fandom, and we’re essentially waiting on Season 2 to start development. And while I’m hoping a few things are tweaked (like Dream and Hob’s relationship), I’d be more than fine if it stays the same as in the comics. And if they decide to go about that in an entirely different way, I’d be fine with that too. You know why? Because I’ve learned to trust the writers of the stories I love not to lead me astray. 

And if I’m unhappy with something –because nothing is ever 100% perfect, and even my favourite stories end up coming short– there are always fanfictions to write, gifs to laugh at, and fandom friends to discuss plots and meta with. 

I may have lost the point of this meta. I tend to do that, following a train of thought that doesn’t always make sense in the end. 

Fandom friends, can we all just agree to take a breath and be thankful of the stories given to us? Can we learn to appreciate the entire picture, and not just a tiny section of it? And for the love of all that is holy, can we learn to be patient and to listen when our story tellers remind us to wait and see? To trust them when they assure us that our characters will have a happy ending, even if they need to traverse a little in the dark to get there?

I sure as hell am, and I hope you will too. 

Gonna tag @carryonsimoncarryonbaz because she was instrumental in encouraging me to write this.

[collarbjt]

SPN 1006

Is Supernaturl novel in spn famous now? Performed in school play, just wow

Dean : Out there hunting, is the only normal I know

Again, I’ll kill you john.

Oh, girl acts Dean.

Carry on my wayward son~

Dean’s “NO” face is so serious lol

Wincest Subtext 🤣🤣🤣 so hilarious

Sam got shut down trying to give some old-school stories!! Lol

Spaceships, and robots, and some Ninjas, and then Dean becomes a woman. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Wow is it a mid-term summary?????? Lol whatever, the end of novel Supernatural in spn is Swan song, it would be quiet disappointed to the readers in spn univ.

DESTIEL????

That word, ‘subtext’, is hit of this episode, yeahhh

D-stiel?? Oh Sam that’s the worst shipping name I ever heard!!! Lol Thx for ‘e’ sooo much. And what the Sastiel, Samstiel??? You wanna in Sammy? Finally Casdean, lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Sam and Dean are too old to be Sam and Dean, lol

Calliope, why greek gods are all in America?

Dean is awkwardly reacting to the compliments about his brother. Hahaha This Samgirl is a great playwriter!!

Road so far, in ‘baby’. Saving people, hunting things, family business- good intro, and summary

Cas is waiting Dean😭 with sad song it’s really sad

Calliope is picky, avoid the spaceships robots and tentacles

Oh,,, this play is now not funny, so sad….I’m impressed.

What… wait that man in vinyl, who’s that????????????

Samulet! Finally the writer realized it’s real Winchesters.

Heyyy it’s not a classic ROCK!!!!!! You guys forgot Adam??? Oh poor boy…

This play is so touching…maybe bet you Winchesters too, right?

Chuck!!!!!!

[shrekgogurt]

All I’m saying is Nick Jonas’s “Jealous” came out in the mid-2010s. And Baz tells us there’s constantly music playing in Las Vegas. And so there’s a non-zero chance that as Simon Snow is standing half a block away not smiling…such a song is playing.

And I want it to be so. We deserve that levity. A little giggle. A little laugh.

[type-40-nightingales]

Okay but here me out guys s16 opening

Dean in heaven, pulling up by a house by a lake, he gets out of Baby and walks inside

He tosses the keys on a desk in his bedroom, then looks up. Castiel is standing there.

Dean immediately kisses him. The momment their lips meet Carry On My Wayward Son starts playing.

Dean pushes him back, sliding of Cas's trenchcoat as he does. Cut to black. Cas is meeting the kiss with equal force. Cut to black They fall onto bed. Cut to black. Music cuts

Dean wakes in a cold sweat with Cas's name on his lips. Music starts again

as "don't you cry no more" plays dean holds head in his hands like in the crypt

cut to "Jack" somewhere standing in that one pose and looking on at heaven and earth.

[castielstwigandberries]

if the supernatural movie doesnt include a reference to

nevada and georgia turning blue, stop the count, destiel making putin resign, sherlock season 5 rumors, destiel news meme, which political person had to be briefed on what destiel is now?, jensen looks like he was holding back homophobic slurs, weird cuts in the confession scene, which way was dean thrown now?, bury your gays speedrun, gay angels get send to superhell/eeby-deeby/cas plinko, recognizing the confession scene only by the first letters of each word, 'homosexual declaration of love', The Tapes™ (Release them now jensen!!!), meta analysis after 15x18, 'i gripped you tight and raised you from perdition' callback as dean saves cas from the empty, why lamp?, onion field, pizza man montage, parallels be paralleling, dean screaming cas name so loud in one take that people heard it blocks away, dean offering to kill sam if it means chuck brings cas back, the 4 year old son of lucifer becoming god, chuck won theory, 'we explore the nature of destiel in act two', excitement for a long finale which could only be about dean saving cas, right?, the insanity inducing quotes of the day for episodes, 'the night we met' and 'angel with a shotgun' songs of the day on set, filming in a barn, worst finale ever (even worse than game of thrones), weirly short with 11 scenes cut, two thirds montages, carry on wayward son playinf twice, back to back, one a weird cover version, vampmimes, no cas in the finale but instead some random vampire from season one no one remembers, dean finally gets nailed from behind, dean dies from tetanus, party city wig, good cars go to heaven, Car/Cas and Biden/Bi!Dean/Bye!Dean, 'cas helped', blurry wife, misha and jensen are not in the thank you video, everyone was supposed to be at the roadhouse originally but no one was informed of those plans, walker backdoor pilot, covid/capitalism destroyed everything, misha was in vancouver for filming the last episodes and was in less episodes than he was contracted for, misha denies ever having been in vancouver, misha says originally he was supposed to be in the finale as jimmy, misha says cas was supposed to be in the finale and 'sidle up to dean in the roadhouse', heterosexual destiel whose kisses would have created entire universes, destiel reciprocated in spanish, rogue translator, #TheySilencedYou, Jensen Ackles sexy silence, jensen ackles longcon, deanbenny breakup in season 8 script leak, Heller Obama, fake italian dub, misha collins x bill clinton sex scandal, misha addressing the "scandal" and tagging bill clinton and monica lewinski, 'still beautiful, still dean winchester', mishapocalypse 2.0 and 3.0, 'eyes like the sky' beer from jensens brewery rumored to be misha description, cockles anniversay photo, chaos machine jensen ackles' production company, 'rainbow road' beer close to deans birthday, blue green ('destiel') shotglasses from jensen brewery, ash and ellen's actors roleplaying roadhouse reopening in twitter, people think they are planning destiel wedding, disappointment when thats not the case, fans celebrate Destiel Wedding anyway on Valentine's Day 2021, fallout with both actors after one said a 'queer interpretation would damage the integrity of the show',

*takes a deep breath*

jared calling cas junkless and comparing his love for dean to the love he has for his children, misha collins cameo including 'still beautiful, still dean winchester', saileen and midam wedding, spn prequel announcement and subsequent j2 fallout, '@/robbiethompson et tu brute wow. what a trully awful thing you've done #bravo you coward', the prequel being about the least favourite characters of supernatural and a love story disproved by canon, 100000 destiel fics on ao3, misha tweets about that, rumors if mishas secret ao3 account, real italian dub going 'you're kinda okay' instead of i love you, misha tweeting a video of him saying 'te amo' in response to that', jensen saying if there'd been more time he (he meant dean but he used first person pronouns) would have hugged cas and said 'i love you too', first anniversary, misha collins coming out as bisexual on accident and then saying he 'happens to be straight' three days later in a five post apology thread, hot sauce from adam/micheal actor advertised by him playing midam, casbaiting in the winchesters trailer, jarlos shipping by winchester main actors, dean with beard and turtleneck, jensen saying he wanted misha in the winchesters but it didnt work out because of scheduling conflicts but hed be there in a season two shortly before the show was cancelled, death of the rogue translator and destiel getting dragged to the trending page every time there is news

*panting* then i dont want it.

yes this is all i could remember without looking it up

[autisticrosewilson]

Todd Family Tree pt. 1

I know you guys have been waiting with baited breath for this (Read: no one but me and a handful of select mutuals care), but fret not because it's finally here.

Let's start with the side of Jason's family we know the most about, Willis's. A lot of things I'll have to say about Willis himself will be things I've said before with maybe some new additions, but a lot of the focus will be on his relationships with his family anyway so hopefully it won't get too repetitive.

Someone on my last Todd Family post commented that the Ma Gunn aspect may have been retconned, however I already integrated it into my personal canon so let's just keep going shall we?

Also shout-out to @perseus-jackass who let me ramble to them about all of this and helped me iron out some of the finer details!

The Todd/Gunn Family; Canon:

- Willis reportedly named Jason after his father, Jason Todd Sr.

- Faye Gunn II is the niece of Willis which implies Willis has at least one sibling that is never mentioned, although Faye was either raised by or very close to Ma

- Faye was named after Ma implying that whichever sibling she was raised by was close to Ma

- Assuming Gunn is her maiden name, or perhaps an alias, she didn't keep her husband's last name and Jason Sr. Is never mentioned, which could mean that they split or that he's dead

- Obviously from a meta textual stand point the reason Ma Gunn was never mentioned as Jason's grandmother is because it was a later retcon, but in universe this and Willis's choice to keep his father's last name implies he wasn't fond of his mother/was closer to his father

Sub note: The candidates for Jason's mother included Lady Shiva (I'll get into my thoughts on her in Part 3) and an Israeli woman. Edit: @ammomancer informed me that Jason was Spanish (Basque specifically) in the Bombshells continuity as well!

- Ma was implied to be from Australia, and likely taught there for a time.

- Ma implied that she had sons, and possibly that they're dead. (I have obviously disregarded this, but I'm not against the interpretation that one or both of the girls are trans.)

So my version of Jason is black/Asian/Latino! I think he's Japanese/Indian from his mom and black/Latino from Willis so keep that in mind.

Fleshing Them Out; My Expansion:

I'll start with Ma Gunn, since we see the most of her in the comics and she has the most groundwork laid for her already. Mostly I'd like to make her a little more complex.

She's proven to be a ruthlessly pragmatic character, but I don't see her being someone who does what she does for fun. She's someone who values control, someone who doesn't take perceived slights lightly. I imagine growing up a woman on Gotham's streets with so many relations to organized crime builds grit, spawns bitterness and hate. She seems like the type to value tradition - in the Gotham crime family way- this is how she was raised and the way she raised her own children. There is no changing the world they live in, only surviving it. I think she really wanted to teach her kids, both the ones she birthed and the ones she fosters, how to survive.

That's not to say she really cares though, I don't think she's close enough to anyone to really care, even if maybe in the early days of motherhood she wanted to be. She's a stone cold bitch and she's proud of it, she made her kids strong and look at the reputation it's given her. Ma Gunn's school for wayward boys isn't just for strays anymore, there are some big names dropping their brats off for training these days. Crime lord daycare. Truly, only in Gotham.

Jason Todd Sr. Is a non-character. We know basically nothing but his name and that his marriage failed, and he's probably very dead. Which may or may not be related to said failed marriage.

Do I think Ma hired a hit on her husband? I wouldn't put it past her. I think she'd get rid of anyone if they were dragging her or the family down.

We can assume he was close to Willis, and I like to think that Mr. Todd was the homemaker because I can't really imagine Ma staying home to tend the kids. It's more likely her version of family bonding was a bank heist. Willis may have very well learned to drive from high speed car chases.

I think it would be very funny if Mr. Todd is from some third or fourth rate crime family that's using a mechanic shop as a front but Mr. Todd was actually really interested in it so he got an engineering degree and had little to nothing to do with the actual crime side of things. Maybe his family married him off to make him someone else's problem and while the Gunn's aren't a notable crime family they have a lot of resources and a lot of contacts, not to mention the small army of feral children.

Ma thought she was getting a seasoned criminal to help fund her illicit activities but instead he's a stay at home dad who has turned their home into a board game because he insists on fixing it all himself (if you use the microwave the doorbell might ring and you need a screw driver to use the shower ect.)

A lot of the experiences I associate Jason having with Willis I imagine Willis had with Mr. Todd, doing homework together, working on cars in the garage, Willis definitely learned how to cook from Mr. Todd because I just don't think Ma can do better than hamburger helper and public school lunch.

For the sibling situation, and I have no real evidence canon has completely left the building with this one, but I think he has sisters. Middle child Willis and also boy who grew up with all sisters Willis is real to me for reasons I couldn't say.

Completely made both of them up, but this is my house I can do what I want.

I'll start with the oldest sister, who I've decided to call Celia. I think she's the closest to her mother, the one who took over after her. Probably a serious, studious kind of person, she grew up with more opportunities than Ma did so she probably had more schooling. I can definitely see Celia as someone who worked her ass off to bring home good grades to make her mom proud and always falling short because Ma didn't really value traditional education.

Her and Willis definitely clashed growing up, Willis never liked Ma but Celia idolized her. Where Ma's crude demeanor and distance drove Willis to acts of rebellion it made Celia even more desperate to please.

Although I'm sure Willis would deny it, I think it's still a sore spot to him that Celia's way kind of worked. Once she got old enough to really learn about the business Celia was great at it, Ma started coming around to the benefits of having someone better with the numbers and paperwork.

I think that even after Willis leaves he genuinely tries to keep in touch with everyone, I don't think he ever stops trying to reach out to Celia. I don't think he agrees with who she became even if he saw it coming, regardless of how much he doesn't like their mother (he'd never say he hates her) Celia is still the girl who put bandaids on his scraped knees and let him crawl into her bed when he had nightmares and he can't bring himself to cut contact with her.

Celia is nicer than Ma, more adept at caring for the kids and because of this she earns their trust more which ultimately makes them more loyal to the Gunn's. This is a purposeful tactic because although she does see the kids as her own she doesn't see anything wrong with manipulating them for her gain. They're family, and family always want to help each other.

Jason was not allowed to visit his auntie, and didn't even know his grandmother was still alive.

I don't think she'd have a husband or boyfriend, a romantic relationship would take too much attention away from her business and if there's one thing she learned from her mother it's that a man would only drag her down or try to control her.

Willis is, to the surprise of no one, is who I have the most to say about but I'll try to keep it brief. For all he gets a bad rep I think he's a family man at heart, I'm positive he always planned on kids even if he wasn't sure about settling down with anyone at first.

Mostly because his mom kept trying to arrange marriages which is how he ended up dating Sheila for a time...which obviously didn't work out. One could say he wasn't keen on a repeat performance after that fell apart.

Man whore I fear, Gotham's fourth most bisexual man. Where's that one post about the goon who causes a distraction for his boss by making out with the bank teller and his wife. That's literally him Willis Todd ghost wrote that post. I'll get more into his various relationships in Part 3.

This man was born to tell dad jokes and wear funky ties but he's forced to live a life of violence and crime. Because of poverty and generational trauma.

I think the most tragic part of Willis Todd is that he tried. He loved his wife and he loved Jason and he gave everything he had to providing for them so Jason wouldn't have to grow up like he did but it ended the same anyway. And he'd never be disappointed in Jason, although Jason thinks he would, because home knows his son and he knows Jason wouldn't do it unless he really thought he was helping people.

I know everyone holds the opinion that Catherine was the most serious about Jason's school but I argue it's Willis, Cathy taught Jason to love learning but Willis taught him the importance of it. I think Willis always got good grades but he never went to college because part of ditching his family was ditching their money and most of what he made went towards supporting himself.

I've named the youngest sister Joan, and I think it's important to define her relationships more than her personality for reasons I'll get into in a bit.

For continuity's and sake I'll say she was a pre-teen when Willis moved out at 18-19, which would give her a large gap between both Willis and Celia - who I imagine are maybe two or three years apart - age wise. So while Willis likely tried to take care of her, to influence her away from their mom and sister, I don't think he was super fond of being at home to begin with so I don't think he was around much and I think Mr. Todd died not long after she was born so she didn't really have the gentle hand that Wills did growing up.

This left her with little to rely on but Ma and Celia, it was a real rock and hard place. Ma is honest in her ruthlessness at least, but Celia uses her love as a tool for manipulation. I'm sure she grew up right beside the other kids at Ma's school.

So I think it's no wonder that when she found herself with a baby she had no clue how to take care of, it was very easy for her mom and sister to convince her to give the baby over. Easy for Joan to decide that her daughter was in better hands with Celia as her mother.

And then Joan...vanished. No note, no phone call, no body. Most suspect it was Ma who did it, even though the woman had her kids - former and present - rip the city apart looking for her. No one knows the full story, and no one knows Joan Gunn's whereabouts.

Well, no one except Willis Todd, not that anyone else knows that.

Faye Gunn II has a lot of potential. I think there's a chance for her to parallel Jason. They both grew up on the streets and both have affiliations with organized crime, but where Faye is comfortable perpetuating the cycle of violence expected of the Gunn women Jason spends every night busting his ass to make sure another kid never has to go through what he did.

I also think it would be fun if maybe Faye wasn't entirely human, y'know give her a little bit of meta gene as a treat. Beast Boy isn't using the name Changeling anymore and I've long subscribed to Gotham operating by faerie rules so maybe she can borrow it for a few issues.

I don't have many thoughts on her as is but I'd like to do more with her in the future!

This got really long and I'm certain it will only get longer with the next additions. The next part will focus on the Clemens/Johnson family! Catherine Todd lovers stay tuned for part 2. Remember that all of this is just how I view them based on the cookie crumbs we get about them in canon.

[melodysmash]

Discoveries, on fandom + canon

I had never read any fanfiction prior to the gap between Wayward Son and Any Way the Wind Blows (that cliffhanger took me by complete surprise and I NEEDED something to tide me over). Before long I also joined the Carry On Discord. I've continued being involved with the fandom since.

I'm now writing my first fanfiction (for CORB), and because I want it to be canon compliant, I need (want, of course, too!) to reread canon for the first time in a couple years. I was very nervous about what my reading experience would be like after a steady years-long diet of fandom. I've never experienced a book this way before! I have been deep in the world of a book before, but only in my own head, guarding my imaginings like a dragon's hoard, never exploring with other people.

To my great pleasure, I'm finding that fandom has dramatically elevated my canon reading experience. I'm reading much more slowly, pondering sentences, cherishing them. I'm getting deeply into each character's head in a way I hadn't before reading many fanfics that explored different perspectives and possibilities with a variety of writing styles. I'm thinking about how people who write metas on Tumblr would interpret a tiny detail. I'm imagining events with far more vivid detail thanks to so much exposure to incredible fanart.

Lines that I flew right past previously are hitting me so hard now: Simon's nightmares about the dragon he killed burning up from the inside. How he says you need to ease into something good so the shock of it doesn't overwhelm you. Penny's description of Simon when she sees him again.

So my vague fears that by being saturated in fandom I'm lessening or twisting canon in an irrevocable way, I'm absolutely delighted to say, have not come to pass. Fandom and canon are mutually beneficial. What a beautiful thing.

[hearthouses]

#dean being known entirely by sam and there being no more secrets between them gets me like nothing else#sam would be so serious about it#i love that the show serves us so much dean gender stuff on a platter plus an actual panty kink#if only fandom was more interested in exploring all this especially in the context of the s/d relationship (via @alaynestone )

oh, would you tell us a little more about that repressed transfem dean headcanon and how you think it would play out?

i've been thinking about how to respond to this. ultimately, i think not much needs to change just the way certain aspects of his character are interpreted. it's not my default headcanon, but there is a strong basis for it.

as much as dean reads as both bisexual and definitely some kind of not cis, i don't think he particularly cares about labels or being "out".

dean's character is always defined by a certain fluidity. 6 episodes in he's not only directly paralleled to the shapeshifter but the shapeshifter assumes dean's shape and gives voice to dean's thoughts without permission. and we get the glorious body horror and eroticism of the scene where the shapeshifter strips dean's skin off as (i just wanna be) mary by the death riders plays in the netflix version. dean has no fixed shape.

right from the pilot it's clear he goes through life performing, mirroring, playing into expectations good and bad, clinging to a semblance of agency at every turn. dean winchester might as well be a bigger than life character dean has constructed to survive. now does that mean every aspect of that performance is a lie? no, not really. however his masculinity does conceal and protect many of the more vulnerable facets of his personality until they too are useful. he doesn't so much kill or repress his femininity but it too can only be expressed when it's in service to something else. he can't just exist and want these things. and it's a source of shame that he wants them.

not only is he (at least) subconsciously treated as wife and mother, there is plenty of evidence he doesn't perceive himself as entirely male. to get more specific, it'd be one thing if he wore lingerie to please someone else, but to admit that he liked it, that he personally enjoyed it even with the ways feminization has been used against him? that it's more than kink? that is terrifying.

so i do think sex is the best way to get him to explore this aspect of his identity at an early stage. putting it into words is much harder than going there physically with the promise of orgasms. i'm pretty obsessed with the idea of sam suspecting these things about dean and trying to make him feel more comfortable about it. there is no way he wouldn't feel honored to be trusted with this and protective/possessive at the thought of dean seeking it anywhere else. even as they continue to explore this, i don't think dean would require a change of pronouns, or start going by deanna. but he would feel so warm and right inside whenever sam called him his girl. something inside him would heal the more this vocabulary was used outside the bedroom. it would take a lot of work and there are plenty of ways this could backfire but i believe in them. i'm a sap, whatever.

[s0fter-sin]

what up it's been 12 years and i'm still pissed there was no consequence to dean being in constant survival mode and fighting 24/7 in purgatory

what do you mean he didn't become a god at hand to hand combat? what do you mean he could still be jumped by random ass demons?

he was - at best - in a constant in-between state meaning he didn't get hungry or tired but that also means he didn’t sleep for a year and was constantly being hunted by hundreds of thousands of monsters that want to eat him specifically, while actively searching for cas

OR he was in a completely normal state meaning he was constantly fighting starvation and exhaustion while all of that was still happening!! it's not like there's much to scavenge in monster heaven!! he would’ve been on the verge of dying for a year!!!

then he comes back and he's just exactly the same? the same level of fighting skill he's always had? if not slightly worse for some reason?? what do you mean he couldn't kill anything he came across with his eyes closed when it's what he's been doing EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR???

it's always been one of the flaws of a show running for so long that after like s6 they never seemed to be getting better? they still got the shit kicked out of them by demons and ghosts and what have you and instead of finding obscure rituals they just got A Better Gun™️

both sam and dean are the peak of what hunters can be; they've been trained to hunt and kill things bigger and stronger than them since they were children, so what do you mean they still get the shit kicked out of them so often? was it just to show how strong monsters are? that even with their level of experience and skill, they're still outmatched?

(or do you just need a way to keep up the tension cough cough what who said that)

but you can't have dean who's been trained to be an elite soldier Since He Was Four Years Old go into a 360 combat scenario for an entire year - a good chunk of which he was completely by himself - then say he didn't improve his combat skills At All

and not even just combat, his senses would've been off the charts!! there was nothing but ambient forest noise and growling, his hearing would've gotten so sharp, it was darker so his night vision would ve been insane and he should've been able to feel a monster coming a mile away after constantly being on guard

post purgatory dean had the opportunity to be a completely different beast to anything we'd ever seen before, to be a completely different kind of traumatised from all of his other trauma

hell broke him but purgatory should've broken and rebuilt him into something Terrifying

[mymagicgrandpa]

Chapter 15: Liquid Truth - Page 32

Chapter Synopsis: Suzie and Sean have been taken and it's up to Coach and Ian to find them and stop the demon king!    

Author Comment:  Ah yes, Suzie has her priorities straight. Heaven forbid the potential end of the world ruin her grades.

And we end this episode on a big mystery. This was a fun chapter to do, I’m very excited about The Instigator. Meta humor is a bit overdone these days, I know, but I’m trying to be clever with it and not make it too annoying. There are probably people out there who hate all meta humor so they won’t like that part of the Instigator, but hopefully he has enough of a fun personality to make up for that.

If people couldn’t figure it out, this episode was based on the Supernatural show. Manchester is a reference to Winchester, Ian’s name has a similar meaning to Sam and Dean’s dad, Sean is a combination of Sam and Dean, the opening is a reference to how Supernatural starts, the weapons in the trunk of a car similar to the Empala, the Contractor demons were based on Crossroads demons, the song is an alternate version of “Carry on My Wayward Son”, Sean’s insistence that he’s ‘fine’ when he’s not fine, and probably a few other things I forgot to mention.

I know there were major setbacks when the comic lost its host website, but I’m determined to keep chugging forward as best I can.

My Magic Grandpa is a paranormal fantasy adventure that takes place in the  90s, please check it out and spread the word if you like it!

[bazzybelle]

Get to know me (and you)

Thank you @windsweptinred for tagging me! I am sorry it took me so long to get to this.

1. 3 ships I really like right now: Ohhh this is always tough for me. I have so many ships at all times. Ok well if we're going by my current brain rot...

Dreamling: No one is surprised by this. They caught me by the throat and have not let go for the last year. It's so funny coming in as someone who was familiar with the comics before the Netflix adaptation, because they are not at all romantic. Like, I got no romantic vibes from them (and I'm someone who sees romance vibes in everything). The MOST romance I can see MAYYYYYBE (and this is a massive maybe because I only read this arc after the show aired and I was already getting into Dreamling) happens in The Wake (and I won't go into further details because those are massive spoilers). Why do I like Dreamling? They're just so feral for each other in fanon. Plus it helps that the actors on the show had incredible chemistry with each other (I would also consider HellDream and DreamMuse as other potentials because yeah he looked like he was about to make out with those two actresses).

SnowBaz: I still have so much love for SnowBaz. This was the pair that got me through a massive depression/writing slump. Seriously guys, read Wayward Son and Any Way The Wind Blows if you want an accurate representation about depression and intimacy problems and just finding yourself once that biggest event of your life is over. It's about learning to live after trauma and how to heal. Plus this was also the first CANON queer couple I read and helped me to become comfortable with my own queer identity. Yeah... I may move on and have other loves, but Simon and Baz will always hold an irreplaceable part of my heart.

Tie between Ineffable Husbands and BlackBonnet: These are two very new relationships and I just love them both so much. I don't know much about BlackBonnet, because I've only seen gifs of the second season and nothing more, but from what I've seen, omg I am so excited. As for Ineffable Husbands, they are SO interesting to me and I have been enjoying reading the Metas that have been coming out after the second season. It's so interesting to me, to connect this to SnowBaz, to see the reactions after the second season aired. It reminds me A LOT of the explosion that occurred after Wayward Son was released (an explosion that not only continued the closer we got to AWTWB being released, but also contributed to Rainbow Rowell leaving Twitter). I'm not going to get too deep into this (though @carryonsimoncarryonbaz has been trying to convince to write a meta comparing the two because MY GOD ARE THERE SO MANY CONNECTIONS).

2. First ever ship: Honestly? Sailor Mercury/That boyfriend she had... what was his name? Greg? I thought they were so flipping cute. Plus I liked that the nerdy girl had someone who thought she was cute. As the Nerdy Girl myself, it made me happy to see.

3. Last song:

Fegari - Natasa Theodoridou: One of my favourite Greek songs. I've been in a Greek music mood as of late, and this is a beautiful song. It's about a woman who prays to the moon to bring her husband back from his mistress, and to watch over him if she can't. She also asks the moon to take her from the Earth so that she may see her husband from above.

At least... that's what my husband tells me. Greek music is so morose you guys.

4. Last movie: I watched Barbie last week with my husband. We both loved it so much. It's such a great dark comedy.

5. Currently reading: Lots of fanfiction, but I recently bought a beautiful Jane Austen collection, as well as an illustrated collection of poems by Rumi, so I want to dive into those.

6. Currently watching: My husband on the couch. But in all seriousness, we're probably going to watch either Our Flag Means Death or Silo next.

7. Currently eating: Nothing, but I am craving some cereal.

8. Currently craving: xD Cereal.

Tags: @seiya-starsniper @mentallyinvernation @mallory-x @carryonsimoncarryonbaz @ninemagicks @amywaterwings @namistrella @signiorbenedickofpadua @tryan-a-bex @artsyunderstudy @yellobb @aroace-genderfluid-sheep @spockandthings @wellbelesbian @j-nipper-95 @zigzag-wanderer @fleabaggotme @arialerendeair @aristocratic-otter @messofthejess

[n7punk]

every time i think i'm done (enough) and maybe i can make the master post i find something else new and insane. there are apps. did you know there are apps? there are TWO apps. you can still download them. do you want candy crush, etherian non-surveillance-state edition? because Gems Of Etheria actually doesn't gather data on you, unlike the real Candy Crush

"how fucked was your merch release?" well the tiny sword accessory for the 15$ MSRB fashion doll sells for over 20$ by itself now

[cienie-isengardu]

Hi! I love your blog and particularly your Anakin/Vader meta stuff! I have a (imo) fun question for you: what would a team up between Batman and Vader look like? How would they regard each other? I’m imagining them forced to help each other rescue their kids or something, lol. I was inspired by your posts from the comics and then the meta about Vader and his relationship with stormtroopers vs officers.

Cheers!

Thank you! ♥️

Oh that is an intriguing but also tough question to which I feel the answer will depend a lot on the setting. Going with the rescue kid scenario, Batman thrown into the Star Wars universe or Vader into Gotham build totally different circumstances.

Both characters have their specific modus operandi that may easily clash and both are difficult to work with to begin with, but I feel that Vader thrown into Gotham would be easier to cooperate with as he has zero interest in taking over the city. The major problem will be to pursue Vader to not kill everyone that threatened Luke’s life but beyond that the city and its citizens have not much to offer. Earth technology is pretty outdated compared to star wars reality and even if some weapon was a marvelous exception, Vader has little regard for technological terror, as was seen with the Death Star. He may be interested in magic and superpowers as I believe this could be the closest thing to his understanding of the Force but without the Emperor around and with no one to butt into his family relationship, the trip to Gotham could be actually quite refreshing experiences. Vader on his own, without Empire to worry about, Palpatine’s spies lurking in the shadows, rebellion to eliminate or political rivals to kill? Yeah, sounds like a dreamy holiday and a good opportunity to connect with his son. 

(Anyone remember “Savage Heart” comics in which Vader spent some time in the wilderness and along the way became leader of an animal predator pack? I kinda feel like being in Gotham could be similar in regard to evoking “family” emotions in him, just him and the little group he is bound to protect.)

If Luke’s life was in danger, there was no Palpatine to use his fatherly feelings against him - and even if there were stormtroopers/members of 501st Legion accompanying him, leaving them behind to deal with the matter at hand alone fits perfectly Vader’s operating methods. In that scenario, with Vader being on totally unknown (neutral) land and free to openly do things he normally couldn’t due to his Sith apprentice status and obligations to Empire, I think Vader could be more likely to humor Batman (and Luke) about their cooperation. Of course, the inevitable clash between them would come down to the no killing rule of Batman because Vader is the pragmatic type that has no hesitation about eliminating enemies for good. Dead enemies can’t hurt you and leaving madmans like Joker alive is asking for trouble and this is one thing I don’t think Batman and Vader will agree anytime soon (though a part of Anakin may be impressed by Bruce’s indomitable resolution and iron will to not break this rule even when Batman lost so much already, especially when he lost a son - Jason - because of Joker. At the same time, Red Hood is definitely on board about killing the villains so I guess Batman is going to be pretty busy with keeping Vader AND his wayward son from reducing Gotham underground into ash. And in general, Luke and Jason and their difficult relationship with fathers wouldn’t be an interesting part of Bruce and Anakin’s teamwork?)

At the same time, there are a lot of things Vader could be impressed about Batman. The skills of a “powerless” human who dedicated all his life to self-improvement and who is capable of going head to head with metahumans. The iron will and stubbornness that keep Batman pushing beyond his limits to finish the “mission”. The smartness and genius mind. The dedication to fight crime even - especially if - it is against the best interest of corrupted politicians. Because this is what Jedi should be; this is what Anakin hoped Jedi would be when he dreamed about being one of them. Batman is the type of superhero who goes against criminals and those in power alike and is not afraid of breaking the comfortable status quo. And Vader likes hard-working, thinking outside the box, dedicated and capable people. Batman on another hand, without any Empire or Rebellion around wouldn’t know what Sith is and what a true evil he is capable of, so unless Luke fills gaps in his knowledge or Vader went on full dark side rampage, there is a chance he would give Vader a small benefit of doubt. As in, the dangerous man is here truly to save his estranged son and be off once the boy is safe and sound without causing unnecessary chaos and death. Though seeing Vader in fight may be an additional reason to send him back as fast as possible to whatever reality he came from.  

Of course, working with Batman or Vader is not an easy task as both are pretty stubborn, brilliant yet very difficult men but also both are capable of working “with the enemy” if the situation calls for truce. I personally think that if not openly challenged, they could actually find a common ground relatively easy.  Because whatever people think about Vader, he can be pretty cool-headed and cunning without brutality - he just prefers to deal with things in less complicated fashion (and who can blame him with a master like Palpatine who loves scheming and psychologically messing up people?) And really, despite the rigid moral rules Batman follows, he is pretty respected even among villains and the secret agency/agents. Over the years he built a specific “understanding” with some of them, like Ra's al Ghul, classic Amanda Waller, the head of Suicide Squad (or Predators) so I think this isn’t far stretching idea that given a time and opportunity, Batman and Vader would fall into similar category of mutual respect, as Vader is closer to the type of villains capable of truly respecting certain people than to obsessive madmen like Joker. 

Which is why I think Vader and Luke showing in Gotham is the easier scenario. However Batman (and any of his kids) thrown into the Star Wars universe creates additional complications whose level will increase the closer to Coruscant they showed up. For one, here Vader is tied to his duties to the Empire and thus under Darth Sidious’s watchful control. Which I believe wouldn’t allow Vader to openly team up with Batman because a) Bruce would quickly figure out Empire is the corrupt government that should be taken down or at least fight against and b) saving Luke is Vader’s personal goal that isn’t exactly safe for him, because again, Palpatine has his own plans in regard to young Skywalker and Vader is treading on thin ice between loyalty to Empire and sabotaging his master. 

So to team up with Batman to save Luke, Vader would need to use all the cunning skills and his trusted agents he possesses to not draw Palpatine’s unnecessary attention to himself. Of course, the farest from Coruscant, the easier to do so, but if Batman landed on Coruscant and started there causing problems for Imperials (and well, he would, wouldn’t he?) then catching Bruce and actually making a deal with him without Sidious’ knowledge would be pretty challenging. Batman could easily be seen as a rebel agent albeit I think his no killing rule is enough distinct trademark to catch Vader’s attention - attacking imperial soldiers and/or successfully stopping imperial operations without killing any trooper in the process is not the typical rebels’ modus operandi (and I’m not saying it as criticism toward Rebels, just stating a fact). Which gives Vader an interesting angle to seek said “enemy” and figure out how to use it for his own purpose (saving Luke). Anakin could be dispatched by Palpatine to deal with an annoying problem or Batman’s tactic could simply have caught Vader’s attention and I guess in the case of those two running into each other, an interesting battle of skills and wits would follow as in sw universe Batman has better understanding of Empire’s inhuman crimes thus a solid reason to not trust Dark Lord of the Sith on his trail. So as much as siding with Rebels feels the natural outcome, Batman’s no killing rule always included even the worst villains so he is not one to assassinate / make a coup on imperial high ranking officers. And well, wouldn’t it be funny if Batman became a target for both Empire and Rebels, as he is not there to kill anyone or let anyone to die on his watch and get into both sides’ operations on daily basis and no one have a fucking clue who this man is and what is his problem?

(Also, how far Batman goes with the no killing rule when dealing with the Empire? In Gotham there are possibilities to keep the worst villains under sort of control and sure Arkham Asylum isn’t the 100% safe place for that as serial killers / seriously mentally ill people managed to escape from there but it provides an alternative to sentencing someone to death. Meanwhile in the Star Wars universe defeating Imperial officers does not remove them from the rank and it is not like Batman can abduct them and put them in prison as the Empire's hold on the galaxy is tight. Would he stop a rebel attack to save Vader if he was meant to die in said attack? I kind of think Vader in Gotham would feel much better than Batman on Coruscant or any planet under imperial occupation.)  

At the same time, if Vader knew Bruce’s kid(s) was kept in imperial custody or alternatively, he was the one holding Batman’s family to force him to save Luke from imperials/bounty hunters/whoever else - and Batman as the unpredictable, unaffiliated agent is a good choice to bring enough chaos to keep Vader out of Palpatine’s radar -  the deal could go in both ways. On one hand, Vader changed his deal with Lando in TESB and was willing to kill Boba Fett in Enemy of the Empire (though once there wasn’t reason to fight over he did not bother to kill Fett anymore), on another the tie-in material provides many examples that he can respect his agreements and the let you alive after job done right is in fact a real option. Frankly, Vader has a very straightforward attitude when it comes to making a deals, as he openly states he may kill you if he won’t be satisfied with the outcome, as was seen with Dengar in Payback from Tales of the Bounty Hunter:

Dengar raised his hands in surrender, leaned back to the wall of his cell. The constriction released. "If you're going to kill me, get it over with! I've got nothing to lose!" Dengar shouted. "But I won't make it fun for you!"

"I'm not the Emperor," Vader said ominously. "I don't kill for amusement, only when it serves my purposes."

Dengar smiled. "Well, then we have something in common."

"It appears that we have more than one thing in common" Vader said, "we both want Han Solo?

"Unfortunately," he continued, "I have an Imperial Death warrant against you. I cannot revoke that warrant, but I am willing to consider a reprieve."

"Under what conditions?" Dengar asked.

"I will let you live, to hunt for Han Solo. Once you find him, you bring him and his friends back to me, alive. After that, if I am well pleased, I may spare you. But if I am not pleased by your performance, I will give you time to run. Then my hunt begins."

Darth Vader threw Dengar a blaster, just as Dengar had given one to Kritkeen. Vader's meaning was clear. If Dengar failed in this hunt, Darth Vader would become the hunter. The monster who had destroyed the Jedi Knights would be on Dengar's tail. Dengar licked his lips, thinking that if Vader hunted him, Dengar would at least show a good accounting of himself. (Tales of the Bounty Hunters)

or that death may happen, eventually anyway as Vader said to Nas Ghent (it’s not the Emperor’s attention you’ve earned — it’s mine. I’m not here to kill you, though I might… eventually.)

Working for Vader was a hazardous job. Some offered their service to the Dark Lord of the Sith ‘freely’, in return getting protection for others, like Jix Wrenga or Wyl Tarson did. Some were spared even though they ultimately betrayed Vader like clone veteran Hock Malsuum or captain Luca did and were still left alive. So even if Batman and Vader at some point decided to outsmart each other - and I think the betrayal would be a matter of time as both characters are pretty stubborn about their beliefs and bringing order to the galaxy is definitely not the same as equal justice for everyone - they still could part on relatively good terms. Especially if Batman bothered to save Vader or his men at some point, as Vader takes deeds like that into account. 

So, in general, I imagine teamwork between Batman and Vader as an interesting if not an intensive experience, mainly for the clash about no killing rule and in general extreme different morality of those two, but also both care a great deal about their families so in the right circumstances begrudgingly they may join forces to solve their common problem. The fact that both are the serious, no-nonsense type of characters probably will help a lot but like I said, the shape of their interaction will depend on the universe in which they met. Gotham for Vader is like a nice vacation because there is no Palpatine to worry about for a while and he may be in enough good humor to not kill people on the right and left (to Batman and Luke’s approval). Meanwhile, the Star Wars universe seems like a politically ruthless game for survival that may put Vader and Batman on collision in a more direct way than the first scenario and thus backstabbing and using others as a tool to do dangerous bidding is more likely to follow. Not necessary enough for Vader to try kill Batman on purpose (because again, once there is no more reason to fight, Vader is not always interested in his “enemy's" death) but for sure to treat the other man as potential danger to his own well-being. The Star Wars universe - and its residents - is just a much darker place than Gotham City, or so I think.

[cpopnatural]

10x05 Notes

-no….no…no

-Fan Fiction the infamous episode you are

-not the Samulet

-it’s just Supernatural it’s not this deep

-of course the lady who dies is a Supernatural hater

-the title sequence slayed unfortunately

-all the characters being played by girls in drag…reality

-Flint Michigan…the least badly aged thing abt this ep

-THE CUTOUT OF MARY

-Dean looks horrified

-THE MUSICAL BOX COVER OF AMERICANA

-you did not need to do that for the wincesties

-let Sam have his theater kid moment

-BUT THEN AGAIN YOU KNOW YOU CAN’T SPELL SUBTEXT

-he literally looks directly into the camera

-teasing his big brother heehee

-“I know I’ve seen this in the lore somewhere”

-to have a joke about the lighting department and then have the lighting like this

-why do the goddess Calliope like this

-lmaooo the whole time Marie was a Samgirl

-“I hate the meta stories” hate this show

-Dean knows Rent…

-“You put as much sub in that text as you can�� looks DIRECTLY at the Cas actress

-Dean vibing to the music

-“I’ll just wait here then” is a song??????? And Cas not being in this ep

-HE’S UNDER THE LAMP

-not the acoustic cover of Carry on My Wayward Son

-unironically a better finale than the actual finale

-unfortunately. I enjoyed this. And jarpad and jackles killed it