#watts vs ironwood

[zexapher]

A Fond Farewell

With Rooster Teeth beginning its draw down, an era has truly passed. The company has lasted more than two decades. 18 (soon 19) seasons, five mini-series, and cameos and references in Halo itself for Red vs Blue. 9 volumes alongside two movies, a chibi series, Ice Queendom, and its own games for RWBY. And so much more beyond that, RT Shorts, podcasts, Achievement Hunter, The Slow Mo Guys, and on and on. That’s a lot, especially for a little startup launching off a web series. I was listening to “This Isn’t Goodbye, It’s See You Later” by Richie Branson while I was making this little memorial post. It’s a song made for another Rooster Teeth show, Camp Camp, and I have to say it’s some very appropriate music for this moment.

The day the news dropped, I wrote up a little comment in response to Rooster Teeth beginning its closing down, and I thought I’d share some of it here. I grew up with Rooster Teeth, a bit of a cheesy line I know, but it’s true for a lot of us. I was just a little kid way back in the early 2000’s, a kid that liked Halo (a game I didn’t even own for a long time, but played at a friend’s house), and was just getting curious about what I could find about it on YouTube. And that brought me into the world of music videos and skits and montages made for that little game I liked.

From there, I discovered a small web series called Red vs. Blue. I’d sneak onto my folk’s computer to watch it since they didn’t appreciate the language, and in doing so I dipped my toes into the wide world of the internet for the first time. As I got older, I eventually hopped onto Reddit for its discussion threads of Rooster Teeth’s latest show, RWBY. I began my first in-depth fandom interactions, speculating about the show, enjoying the flood of fanart, even got into fanfics about RWBY (those fics have had their own amazing evolution alongside the show) and to this day it’s the fandom I’ve followed and bookmarked the most fics from. All the while I was making friends and bonding with people through the community this company and its shows have created.

Watching the shows and people grow over time was, looking back on it, just like watching myself grow. I was never really a social media/internet kind of guy, until it came to Rooster Teeth. The shows, shorts, podcasts, it all opened up a whole new world for me. It’s sad to see it coming to a close, and I hope it gets picked up in the future. But I’m happy, too, that it’s left so much behind, and had such an impact on me. It’s left me with so many good memories. Rooster Teeth, its shows, those that created and worked on it, and above all the community around it will always have a special place in my heart.

So, I bid a fond farewell to Rooster Teeth and its crew, and anyone who may drift away from the fandom in time. I wish you all the best.

[coinjarred]

Lwk I don’t don’t blame jimmy too much for going mad in vol 7 & 8

I would loose my shit too if a hot girl leaves me w/ ptsd, the embodiment of the anti-Christ shows up outside my lawn, and 1/4th of Jesus becomes my robo daughter in the span of two days.

And I’m trying to argue with teenagers but fumbling so bad and my “dead” ex is there watching it all like fml already dude.

[hadesisqueer]

[bluecheeseinmyoffwhites]

These fights have been regarded as the most investing/satisfying/memorable of their volumes by the majority of the FNDM. My question is which is the BEST of the best??

[itsclydebitches]

Something really heartbreaking to think about is that Ironwood probably thought RWBY and co allied with Salem. He sees Emerald, who he doesn’t know switch sides, fighting with JNPR as well as Winter, his lieutenant, to stop him. I really wonder what his last thoughts were. His allies turn against him, Winter betrays him, and they side with Salem. It’s no wonder he gave up.

That could have definitely been a thought Ironwood had, but only if he knows who Emerald is and I'm not sure he does? She seems to have kept a low criminal profile - evidenced by her being able to attend Beacon for the festival/Ironwood only being concerned with Roman as an agent - and during the attack she's up on the rooftops, watching the grimm do the work for them. She then heads back to Salem's lair, spends the majority of the ensuing Volumes there/visiting the occasional spot outside of Atlas, and then when she does enter the city it's via Salem's whale. I think her switching sides and leaving might be the only time she and Ironwood could have feasibly crossed paths after Beacon and, as said, she was "good" by then. Unless I'm forgetting something, Ironwood's reaction to seeing Emerald with the group would probably be less, "Omg Salem minion!" and more Volume 5 Cinder @ Jaune: "Who this?"

Which, you know, really highlights the lack of developed connections among our cast. Characters stay within their own circles and though we assume they should understand the role the rest of the cast plays because we have that information, the reality is they've never interacted, or even - as far as we know - gathered intel on them, like the Ace Ops had on Tyrian.

Regardless, yeah. Personally, I think a lot about the Inner Circle members that have joined Salem (Lionheart), or are trying to straddle the line (Raven), so when your allies show up to take you out, what are you likely to assume? Remember, Ironwood left the group after they'd already betrayed him to Robin, after someone (Cinder) managed sneak into his office, after Watts nearly took out Amity through insider access (Jaques), after Salem herself sent a grimm to tell him, 'You've lost. It's only a matter of time.' So Ironwood is already primed to look for Salem agents, based on both past and present experience, and then the group he tried to have arrested comes back.

Why would they do that? He tried to have them arrested, the Ace Ops clearly failed, they've been sneaking around the city since (Ironwood has that call with Penny)... and now they've staged an attack on him. Obviously they're trying to take him off the board, but only the audience has the full, moral picture as to why. What's Ironwood more likely to assume? That this group is stalling his plan to leave with the Relics/some survivors for two days and then personally stage an elaborate plan to take him out, all because they're just that morally repulsed by an imperfect solution that would at least somewhat hinder their mutual enemy... or that they're doing all this because they're working for that enemy?

The convoluted nature of the group's justifications vs. what Ironwood would likely assume is not only tragic, but further highlights just how Bad this all was. It's been said a million times now, but the fact that the writing (via our characters) spends a whole Volume more concerned with taking out a flawed ally than fighting the LITERAL VILLAIN SITTING OUTSIDE just really says it all to me. Do they want to do something about the whale? No, they only go there to get Oscar and the whale's destruction is a bonus no one saw coming. Do they want to fight the massive grimm army teams like FNKI are battling right outside? No, they need to rest in the mansion and watch over Nora. If they can't think of a way to get everyone out before Salem crushes them, are they willing to just let Ironwood, a city full of people, and the relics hopefully get to safety while they do what they were gonna do anyway: minor damage control, sitting around debating, and not engaging with Salem?

Nope.

Our villains did more in that Volume than the heroes did. Emerald left, Hazel 1v1ed Salem, Cinder was her normal, messy self, and Ironwood not only kept them from being overrun with his army but had a whale bomb ready to go. Meanwhile, the heroes were laser focused on fighting their own allies instead of doing anything about the baddies, right down to Qrow deciding that fighting Clover is more important than transporting/fighting/tying up Tyrian.

If I were Ironwood I would ABSOLUTELY think that the group had joined Salem, or were at least trying to play both sides like Raven did in an attempt to save themselves, because the alternative is too absurd for anyone to hit on without that omniscient perspective.

[iamafanofcartoons]

r/RWBYcritics/comments/17ol6je/at_this_point_is_there_a_universe_rwby_can_even/

I honestly hate when people try to power scale Team RWBY to other character from other series. All they do is downplay their strength and call them weak. I bet if Team RWBY was all men, they would be calling them strong.

Well, that's not it, actually.

These people, when they "criticize" RWBY, they may watch the show, but they completely ignore what the show is about, its themes, what the writers are trying to do.

Here, I'll give examples. Star Trek vs Warhammer 40K Sailor Moon vs Dragonball Z/Naruto The former: women as protagonists or at least equal to men both physically and mentally, LGBT Themes, skill over strength, exploration of psychological and societal concepts, the women in the show can do amazing things that the guys cannot, you have to turn your brain ON to enjoy the show or at least think.

The latter: Women are lesser than men physically/mentally, fanservice, retcons, strength over skill, power solves everything, talking down women and telling them they suck, you turn your brain off to enjoy the show, and of course plot armor.

RWBY at the end of the day is not a shonen show....and many people hate on it because they want it to be. They WANT the men to be greater than the women. They want there to be power levels. They want women to be talked down to and made lesser. They want the show to "not be woke" Ironwood is only powerful because of his guns. Adam is a one-trick pony whose only a threat because of his semblance. Both are defeated using approaches that don't rely on screaming and power levels. The women win using skill, not strength or power levels. The theme of the show is about optimism not mary/gary stu stuff. The RWBY characters don't get plot armor, unlike shonen mcs. They suffer loss. People will scrape from the bottom of the barrel to find a reason to hate on RWBY, including somebody making a video claiming that Jaune wearing the dress was apparently offensive and bad writing.

RWBY still has cool fight scenes, but those fight scenes also mean something. Watts was nearly able to defeat Ironwood using brains, and Ironwood only won by powering through something, permanently losing an arm that he immediately replaced with a prosthetic. adam was nearly able to defeat yang and blake, who had to use brains and teamwork to win. Let me quote Vegeta from Dragon Ball Abridged "Power levels are bullshit"

You should watch Dragon Ball Abridged by Team Four Star, they recently wrapped up the Buu Saga.

They do a lot of trope inversion and deconstruction in their parody. And of course they're very respectful to the original show. But yeah, RWBY ain't a shonen show...it HAS shonen elements, but its more like a magical girl show with shonen elements mixed into it. Honestly the thing about RWBY is that its unique, you can't find anything like it anywhere...and that's part of the sad thing.

[howlingday]

Neutral Stalemate

Jacques: (Yelling over the cacophony) Gentlemen! Gentlemen, please! Gentleman, show some control! Gentle-

Emerald: Ugh! Will you shut up with that?! Not all of us have as much testosterone as you. Of course, you're not exactly meeting the bar, either.

Jacques: One, hurtful. Two, you knew what I mea- I mean, let's keep this meeting civil.

Ironwood: You're pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining! Do you really think it's fair to only send ONE Hunter to a Level 5 combat?!

Watts: One Hunter is plenty.

Salem: We're talking about a Level 5. That's like a Grimm that blows smoke to hide itself! If you're afraid of a Level 5- One Hunter is too many to be honest!

Ironwood: You're kiccking me in the balls and telling me my undies are too tight! Every Hunter knows that ANY Kingdom intervention is equivalent to a bullhead load of fecal matter is about to make contact with the oscillating rotor!

Jaune: Thirty years ago, Maria Calavera VS Angela Hertz. One village destroyed, dozens killed, almost a hundred injured, and more than twenty pictures sent to the tabloids. That, ladies and gentlemen, was a Level 5 combat.

Emerald: Maria Calavera used unauthorized experimental dust, AND is a Huntress, which means she was under YOUR custody. Meanwhile, the Salem Agent, Angela Hertz, had her ribcage shattered trying to stop the Huntress and died the next day!

Qrow: (Sighs) You're missing the point. That bloodbath was a Level 5 combat-

Emerald: WITH A LEVEL 8 DUST WEAPON! Used by YOUR Huntress that the Kingdoms REFUSE to oversee!

Jacques: Settle down, gentle- person! We'll get to supervision and custody soon. Let's stay on topic!

Watts: One Hunter to Level 5 combat. It's our gift to you. Take it.

Ironwood: You're throwing up in my hair and telling me it's shampoo! No deal!

Watts: Going once...

Nora: You're chopping off my ass and telling me I lost weight! We want two Huntresses!

Jacques: Hunters!

Emerald: Oh, NOW you care!

[marcmarcmomarc]

For NSAF’s RWBY reactions, I am looking forward to seeing her reactions to…

Volume 2

2x11: “No Brakes”

Yang vs. Neo/Neo being mute.

Weiss vs. the White Fang lieutenant.

Blake vs. Torchwick.

2x12: “Breach”

Team CFVY’s introduction.

Coco. Just Coco.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Ironwood stealing tournament security from Ozpin. What a friend, right?

Volume 3

3x1: “Round One”

Ruby’s talk with Summer.

RWBY vs. ABRN.

Cinder. Just Cinder. And her Vytal Festival disguise.

Ren’s new voice.

3x2: “New Challengers...”

JNPR vs. BRNZ.

SSSN vs. NDGO/Neptune’s fear of water.

3x3: “It’s Brawl in the Family”

Winter’s debut, and recognizing Elizabeth Maxwell as her voice.

Qrow’s introduction.

Qrow vs. Winter.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

3x4: “Lessons Learned”

Coco. Just Coco.

Emerald and Mercury vs. Coco and Yatsuhashi.

3x5: “Never Miss a Beat”

Penny. Just Penny.

Weiss and Yang vs. Flynt and Neon.

3x6: “Fall”

The revelation of Amber.

Yang taking Ruby’s encouragement too literally, and the first sign of the show’s darker tone starting to show through.

3x7: “Beginning of the End”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Amber vs. Cinder’s faction

3x8: “Destiny”

Jaune and Pyrrha’s talk.

3x9: “PvP”

Penny’s death, and the show’s dark tone finally revealing itself.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

3x10: “Battle of Beacon”

The students banding together.

3x11: “Heroes and Monsters”

Velvet vs. the Paladins.

Torchwick’s rant and death.

Blake getting stabbed and Yang losing her arm.

3x12: “End of the Beginning”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Arkos getting their kiss.

Pyrrha vs. Cinder.

Pyrrha’s death.

More Silver Eyed Warrior information.

Reveal of Salem.

Volume 4 (after binging Chibi Season 1)

4x1: “The Next Step”

Watts, Tyrian, and Hazel’s debut. Maybe she’ll recognize Christopher Sabat as Watts?

Cinder. Just Cinder. And her new hair.

Oscar’s introduction.

Jaune’s Pumpkin Pete hoodie and new shield.

4x2: “Remembrance”

Whitley’s debut.

The destroyed Shion and the dying Huntsman.

Ironwood being sus.

Jacques’ debut and the reminders of Odalia Blight.

Klein being wholesome.

Jaune training with Pyrrha’s video.

4x3: “Of Runaways and Stowaways”

Blake’s new clothes.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

4x4: “Family”

The return of Oobleck and Port.

“I guess you’ve lost some brain cells along with that arm.”

The Higanbana waitress flirting with Qrow.

Raven’s introduction.

4x5: “Menagerie”

Kali, Ghira, Corsac, and Fennec’s debut.

“She’s got some moves.”

4x6: “Tipping Point”

Weiss’ performance.

RNJR vs. Tyrian.

4x7: “Punished”

Ozpin being revealed to be in Oscar’s head.

Jacques and Weiss’ talk.

Qrow vs. Tyrian.

4x8: “A Much Needed Talk”

Blake and Ghira’s talk.

4x9: “Two Steps Forward, Two Steps Back”

Yang training with Tai.

Weiss going rogue.

Ilia’s debut.

4x10: “Kuroyuri”

Hazel Fonzie-ing an ATM.

Young Ren and Nora flashback.

The Nuckelavee’s roar.

4x11: “Taking Control”

The Nuckelavee’s revelation.

4x12: “No Safe Haven”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Ren and Nora’s moment.

Volume 5

5x1: “Welcome to Haven”

Lionheart’s debut.

Shay D. Mann’s debut.

5x2: “Dread in the Air”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Weiss vs. the Lancers.

Khan’s debut and death.

Hazel being a more reasonable villain.

5x3: “Unforeseen Complications”

Ghira’s speech interrupted by Ilia

Oscar’s “parlor trick”.

Vernal’s debut.

“Little Cute Boy Ozpin”.

5x4: “Lighting the Fire”

Yang vs. the Branwen Tribe Bandits.

Yang and Raven’s talk.

Freezerburn reunion.

5x5: “Necessary Sacrifice”

Poor Mata.

The aquatic Faunus.

Ruby’s speech to Oscar.

Yuma’s debut.

5x6: “Known by its Song”

Freezerburn and Raven’s talk.

Strawberry Sunrise’s reunion.

5x7: “Rest and Resolutions”

Just this entire wholesome episode.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

5x8: “Alone Together”

Trifa’s debut.

“I was jealous of the way you looked at Adam. I wanted you to look at me that way.”

5x9: “A Perfect Storm”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

5x10: “True Colors”

The battle of Kuo Kuana.

Ilia’s redemption.

5x11: “The More the Merrier”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Weiss getting skewered.

5x12: “Vault of the Spring Maiden”

Raven revealing herself as the Spring Maiden.

5x13: “Downfall”

The New White Fang’s arrival.

5x14: “Haven’s Fate”

Yang and Raven’s talk.

Lionheart’s death.

Volume 6

6x1: “Argus Limited”

Adam being an incel.

Dee and Dudley’s debut.

Ilia’s new clothes.

The brief return of Neptune.

Maria’s debut.

6x2: “Uncovered”

Cinder. Just Cinder. And her being revealed to be alive.

Jinn’s debut, new character to simp for, definitely (Giving “Ambessa Medarda sauntering out of her bathtub” vibes).

Lil’ Miss Malachite’s debut, new lady to simp for, maybe?

6x3: “The Lost Fable”

Just the whole episode.

6x4: “So That’s How It Is”

Qrow punching Oscar.

The return of Tyrian.

Hazel, Emerald, and Mercury needing to GTFO.

6x5: “The Coming Storm”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

The return of Neo.

Cinder vs. Neo.

Neo wearing Torchwick’s hat.

6x6: “Alone in the Woods”

The reveal of the Apathy Grimm.

6x7: “The Grimm Reaper”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Young Maria.

Tock’s debut.

Young Maria vs. Tock.

Jaune’s family’s debut.

6x8: “Dead End”

Cordovin’s debut and similarities to Kikimora, even down to the having the same voice actor.

More Oscar suffering.

6x9: “Lost”

Emerald and Mercury’s talk, causing confliction over how to feel about them.

Pyrrha’s memorial and the red haired woman.

Oscar’s new clothes.

6x10: “Stealing from the Elderly”

Adrian fake-crying.

Adam’s return.

6x11: “The Lady in the Shoe”

Ruby’s Group vs. Cordovin.

“You get back here with my man!”

Blake’s jacket being sliced off.

Adam revealing his scar.

6x12: “Seeing Red”

Bumbleby vs. Adam.

Adam’s death.

6x13: “Our Way”

Cinder. Just Cinder. Plus her and Neo’s new clothes.

Ruby’s memories.

Summer’s revelation.

Volume 7

7x1: “The Greatest Kingdom”

Qrow’s new voice.

Ironwood and Winter’s return.

Pietro’s debut.

The return of Penny.

7x2: “A New Approach”

The Ace-Ops’ introduction, and maybe starting to simp for Hare and Elm.

7x3: “Ace Operatives”

The heroes’ new clothes.

7x4: “Pomp and Circumstance”

Fi. Just Fi.

Thunder Thighs.

Heartbreaking news: The person you hate the most just made a good point (It’s Jacques making a point about Ironwood for the wrong reasons).

The impromptu license graduation.

7x5: “Sparks”

Real. Thirsty. Moms.

The return of Flint and Neon.

Robyn’s debut, yet another lady to simp for, and clocking that Cristina Vee is her voice.

7x6: “A Night Off”

Renora becoming canon.

The rally massacre.

7x7: “Worst Case Scenario”

Nora talking down Ironwood.

7x8: “Cordially Invited”

Willow’s debut.

“Hey, Mom, it’s snowing.”

7x9: “As Above, So Below”

Jacques finally getting his just desserts.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

7x10: “Out in the Open”

“Ouch.” - Penny, after being launched by the Megoliath.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

7x11: “Gravity”

Ironwood vs. Watts.

7x12: “With Friends Like These”

RWBY vs. the Ace-Ops.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

7x13: “The Enemy of Trust”

JNR + Oscar vs. Neo.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Oscar getting shot.

Winter with her hair down.

Salem’s new look.

Volume 8

8x1: “Divide”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Neo’s reaction to Cinder taking credit for stealing the lamp.

Emerald, Mercury, and Hazel’s new clothes.

Ironwood shooting Sleet.

8x2: “Refuge”

Robyn shutting Jacques up.

Yang shutting up the racist grandma.

Fi’s uncle. Just Fi’s uncle.

The Hound talking.

8x3: “Strings”

Nora trapping the soldiers in the elevator.

The poor Atlas technician getting scalded by Bill’s coffee.

Penny vs. the Ace-Ops.

8x4: “Fault”

More Oscar suffering.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

8x5: “Amity”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Cinder vs. Penny.

Ruby’s worldwide message/the brief return of Saph, Terra, Sun, Neptune, Ilia, Shopkeep, Glynda, and Tai.

8x6: “Midnight”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Cinder’s backstory.

Emerald still being conflicting.

Hazel being sympathetic to Oscar.

8x7: “War”

More Oscar suffering.

May revealing herself as trans.

“No one is replaceable.”

Klein’s return.

8x8: “Dark”

Willow starting to take more action.

The Hound’s revelation.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

8x9: “Witch”

Jinn’s return.

Hazel’s redemption.

8x10: “Ultimatum”

Neo skipping away with the Lamp.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Watts’ hypocritical rant.

Bumbleby reunion.

Ruby ready to fight Emerald.

Ironwood’s ultimatum.

8x11: “Risk”

Fi crying.

Marrow and Winter’s defection.

More Renora.

Ruby and Yang’s talk.

Emerald’s redemption.

8x12: “Creation”

JNR + Oscar, Emerald, and Winter vs. Ironwood.

Ambrosius’ introduction.

Penny becoming a real girl.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

8x13: “Worthy”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Jacques’ death.

Yang falling into the void.

8x14: “The Final Word”

Vine and Elm’s defection.

Cinder. Just Cinder.

Neo, Blake, and Ruby falling into the void.

Hare’s defection.

Vine’s death.

Penny’s death and passing of her powers to Winter.

Weiss and Jaune falling into the void.

Watts and Ironwood’s deaths.

The destruction of Solitas.

Volume 9

9x1: “A Place of Particular Concern”

Cinder. Just Cinder.

The pretty orange orbs flowing through Ruby’s hand- surprise Neo!

The strange Ever After beach shoreline.

Little’s debut.

The Jabberwalker’s debut.

Blake tackling Yang.

9x2: “Altercation at the Auspicious Auction”

Weiss’ brain-breaking tirades.

Little being wholesome.

Jinxy’s debut

Penny’s sword.

The toy soldiers’ debut.

“The greatest warrior to ever live.”

9x3: “Rude, Red, and Royal”

The Red Prince’s debut.

RWBY vs. the Chess Pawns.

The Curious Cat’s debut.

Little being bigger than the girls.

Neo summoning clones and attacking the Jabberwalker.

9x4: “A Cat Most Curious”

“Here, kitty! Here, kitty, kitty, kitty!”

Little being scared of the Cat.

The meta commentary with the Cat. “Did that Ciel girl from the Vytal Festival ever come back,” anyone?

Herb’s debut.

Herb’s hookah den and Herb drugging RWBY.

“I am a Huntress.”

9x5: “The Parfait Predicament”

The Cat’s talk about Ascension.

The Blacksmith’s debut.

WBY vs. the Jabberwalker.

The Rusted Knight’s reveal.

9x6: “Confessions Within Cumulonimbus Clouds”

“When did you get so…” “Mature.”

The Cat being sus.

Bumbleby becoming canon.

9x7: “The Perils of Paper Houses”

The Paper Pleasers’ debut.

Jaune and WBY vs. the Jabberwalkers.

The Paper Pleasers’ deaths.

Ruby and Jaune’s emotional breakdown.

9x8: “Tea Amidst Terrible Trouble”

The dead people tea party.

Ruby’s beating.

The Cat’s revealing their evil nature.

Little’s death.

Ruby’s attempted suicide.

Neo going numb and the Cat possessing her.

9x9: “A Tale Involving a Tree”

Summer’s reveal.

The Genial Gems’ debut.

Ruby’s Tree statue.

The Blacksmith’s introduction.

Alyx’s death.

9x10: “Of Solitude and Self”

Raven’s brief return.

The way the Cat is exorcised from Neo’s body.

Ruby’s Ascension.

RWBY vs. the Cat.

The Cat’s death.

Neo’s semi-redemption and Ascension.

Little’s Ascension.

The Brother Gods’ backstory.

The heroes’ return to Remnant and the worldwide airships over Vacuo.

[metawatts]

Thoughts on the PEAK Ironwood vs Watts fight from vol7?

Creative use of environment my beloved: Watts hacks. the whole. the whole arena. what a godtier move. The way he uses the changing gravity, the geysers, the magma, his own hardlight hexagons, even the different levels of height. The way JAMES uses it, where at one point you see him pick a different route just so he can get the drop on Watts. You do not see shit like this in other rwby fights, you really don't.

Interesting understanding of strengths and weaknesses on both sides: James has one goal in the fight and that is 'get in close'. He knows the moment he's in there he's going to absolutely body Watts, and Watts knows it too. They're both counting Watts's bullets (hilarious), and Watts is doing everything he can to prey on breaking down James's aura and stay away before James gets him. They both know exactly what the other can and can't do, and it's just a really interesting thing. And then when both auras are off and they close ranks? How Watts hides a ploy behind ploys and James shows just how tough his willpower is? great characterisation

Great song: I don't care what anyone else says: Caleb Hyles killed this, good on him, you go dude, take the crown, Hero is rad

Good voice acting: I mean these two VAs are two of the best in rwby. Jason Rose brings his everything to Ironwood (even if the lines are stupid), and Christopher Sabat is a goddamn professional, that's All Might, Major Armstrong, and Azure Lion right there

Emotional and evocative: 'you always were a pain in the ass' 'you never appreciated my genius' I love the messy break up so much these two had History sizzling right off the bone and it was so much more than we usually get in rwby writing, where they refuse to let anyone else interact with their villains unless its straight up torture porn (cough). what a shame

[neopoliitan]

Volume 3, Volume 8, and Stakes

So I’ve always been vocal about my criticisms of Volume 8, and I thought I’d hone in and focus specifically on the Fall of Beacon vs the Fall of Atlas, and why the former sticks the landing when the latter doesn’t.

By rights, the destruction of two cities and the displacement of their citizens should be the higher stakes finale of the two, but for some reason RT’s description of V8′s final episodes as “traumatic” don’t stick to me. I find that this is for multiple reasons.

Lack of Stakes

The primary reason Volume 8 seems to fall flat is its lack of stakes. Volume 3 was a truly ‘traumatic’ event in the series, whilst Volume 8′s finale mostly pays lip service to the concept but doesn’t fully commit. Let’s break down exactly what was lost from the protagonists’ angle in each climax:

Volume 3:

Pyrrha, a character who had been in the show from the start and was one of the immediate secondary cast.

Penny, another character who had been in the show, since late volume 1.

Yang’s Arm, temporarily robbing one of the primary characters of their health and/or ability to fight.

Team RWBY, with the team fully disbanded by the end of the Volume.

Ozpin, the headmaster and protector figure - with his loss there’s an increased vulnerability for the cast.

Beacon, the primary setting and safe place for the cast.

The Fall Maiden

Volume 8:

Penny, while a popular character, had already died once reducing the stakes and impact of her demise.

The Relics, which are important but ultimately MacGuffins and the villains already had one of them.

Vine Zeki, one of the Ace Ops, arguably the one with the least focus and a rival force to the heroes up until an episode before the finale.

Atlas and Mantle. Like Beacon they were the primary setting, but were constantly portrayed as a troubled society - leaving the question of whether they are worth saving in the back of the viewer’s mind. Robyn even refers to them as a ‘chunk of land’.

“Team RWBY & Jaune” - almost not even worth putting on the list as the viewer instantly knows these "deaths” are moot and won’t stick.

It’s clear that Volume 3 cut much deeper with its choice of character deaths & repercussions, while Volume 8 took a much lighter path, killing off a character who had already died once (Penny) and another who had barely any presence in the show to begin with (Vine). V8 also committed to things telegraphed from a mile away such as the relics. Let me stress that I believe in sticking to your guns even if fans predict it, but it does neuter the impact somewhat - and do fans really care about the relics most of the time?

Plus no one really predicted Beacon to fall so violently, while we all knew that Atlas would drop the minute we found out A) it was a floating city and B) the staff of creation was holding it up.

Antagonists

To start, let’s do the same thing as before, except with what the villains lost.

Volume 3:

Cinder - though there was a big, bold question mark over her fate.

Roman Torchwick - A popular but obvious arc villain who outright states how small-time he is.

Volume 8:

James Ironwood - Volume 8 makes the decision to triple down on making James an unlikable antagonist to the point he’s the primary threat despite Salem having made landfall. By the time his death arrives, I’m pretty sure a lot of viewers are sick of his rapid decline and him overall.

Arthur Watts - One of Salem’s top lieutenants, killed unceremoniously like Ironwood.

Hazel Rainart - Another of Salem’s top lieutenants, killed off after a wobbly ‘redemption’ arc.

Monstro - Salem’s secondary base of operations and the crux of her invasion.

Emerald Sustrai - Switches sides (to me her arc feels heavily truncated and a little unearned, likely due to how much v8 threw at the wall)

The Hound - Supposedly the biggest Grimm threat and slasher villain in the show so far, killed almost comedically by a statue.

Jacques Schnee - With ne’er an actual confrontation between him and Weiss.

Neopolitan - Betrayed by Cinder and cast into the void, though like RWBYJ her supposed “death” is transparent.

Volume 3 is almost a unanimous victory for the villains, and what losses they do have are nixed by the introduction of Salem at the end of the finale - her arrival implies that anything her side suffered is small-time now that the Big Bad is here.

Meanwhile, Volume 8 significantly trims down a bunch of long-standing major antagonists to the point Salem only has three lieutenants left. Where the losses are weighted on the heroes’ side in Volume 3, Volume 8 has a much more even balance. Compounded by the severity of Salem’s losses compared to the protagonists’, she basically came off worse.

Now let’s consider the lack of consistency on who’s supposed to be the villain of the volume. Here’s a sheet of who the main antagonist is of each episode in Volume 3 contrasted with 8:

While Volume 3 has Cinder as a consistent primary villain practically the entire time - Mercury, Emerald, Roman and Adam all working to fulfil her plan even when they’re focused upon - Volume 8 has no less than three antagonists battling for control of the narrative. Salem, who is supposed to be the main villain of the show, is killed nine episodes into the volume. She gets better, but taking her out for so long and posting Ironwood and Cinder back into the position of primary villain makes it feel like the series could just as easily function without her.

It’s clearly a method to A) Have Emerald switch sides, B) Kill Hazel instead of doing anything with him, C) Reveal the power of Ozpin’s cane, but I can’t help but find the concept of killing off the Main Villain of the Entire Show In Episode Nine So You Can Focus On The Secondary Villains For The Climax utterly ridiculous. There’s no world in which it shouldn’t have been the opposite way around.

And while Volume 3 kills off a villain like Roman whose role in the show was effectively complete and introduce a roster of more threatening ones in Volume 4, Volume 8 can’t wait to sweep Hazel and Watts under the rug - leaving them both feeling like characters the writers made, promptly decided they wanted to do nothing with for four years, then killed off callously when they had potential to make Salem’s team a true threat.

I’m running out of steam now, but that’s my general thoughts on why specifically the finale and ultimate outcome of Volume 8 fall flat in comparison to Volume 3′s, and why this synopsis for Volume 9 feels... unjustified at best:

[erros429]

important follow up question but coming from m e

what are your least favorite weapons

ooooh that’s a tough one!!

i want to say jaune’s bores me b/c compared to all the cool ass shit we’ve seen, it’s just… a sword. but i also understand why it is how it is, so. whatever. it’s fine.

another is probably ironwood’s weapon, which in any other circumstance it’d also bore me, but his fight with watts is SO entertaining that it’s like. how can i even say i dislike it. that being said, watts’s gun is also boring. the highlight of that fight was just getting to see a brains vs brawn dynamic in the amity arena tbh

(and also this is just a pet peeve of mine, not really a least fav weapon. but how does oz’s staff take down grimm when it is literally just a blunt metal stick. like ik it has magic in it which is cool, but that magic isn’t constantly being used. and there’s no dust to back up the attacks either. so how is there any damage being done to grimm when everyone else is using sharp weapons and dust and shit 😭)

[lacependragon]

Ultimately what I would have found interesting is to take the Atlas and Tinman allegories much further.

Atlas is broken. The military system in place is clearly bad, okay, let's push more into James being a broken hero, then. Lean more into his song. He is under the impression that "one good man" at the top of a bad system can fix it.

He is wrong. He refuses to see he is wrong. Mettle helps with that.

He wears himself down further and further, refusing to ask for help, because all the stories talk about one hero saving everyone. One person breaking free to fix the system. And so he suffers under this enormous weight alone, even though he doesn't have to.

And it breaks him. He becomes so focused on trying to fix the system that he refuses to see that dismantling it is a better option. He becomes so focused on maintaining his power so he can fix the system that he doesn't recognize that he has to dismantle his own position early on to make any of this have a point.

He refuses to see that he can't do it all, alone, and with all the power he wants. His Ace Ops become enamoured with James' vision of a better Atlas and follow him forward, blinded to the bad parts of Atlas because of it. Their tunnel vision widens to see the destruction they're causing.

And James is held accountable, but he's also treated for what he is - a human being with a lot of trauma who took on far too much. And it's up to individuals if they want to forgive him, yeah, but he has to live with the consequences of his actions.

He doesn't gun down civilians or make massive bombs. He just keeps trying to fix things no matter how much of himself he has to cut off to do it. And yes he hurts people, a lot of people, but he doesn't go full nuclear option on a city.

Because there's nuance in stories. And they didn't have to make James go full fascist maniac in order to do it. And if they wanted to drop Atlas, I think it would have meant far more for a bunch of Atlesians, probably soldiers, to willingly sacrifice Atlas and put it in the ocean to draw the Grimm and give the Mantle people more time to flee, because the Atlesians are out of time. I think it'd be painful to have Team RWBY running through the streets, split between two cities, desperate to evacuate them all, and James has blue-screened and he's lost everything. All his power. All his status. All his tools. He has nothing.

And maybe we don't see him again for a while. Maybe he gets up and helps someone. I don't know.

But it's a story. Not real life. And I think it could have been interesting to force James and Clover to live with their bad decisions, to have them work toward redemption, and I think it would have fit better for James' original "misguided but trying" approach. Would have been a cooler spiral imo. Atlas is falling under the weight of the world, but only because he refuses everyone who wants to help.

Give the people of Atlas and Mantle more agency in their story. Pull a Thor: Ragnarok and let the people sacrifice their home to save themselves. Have the catalyst of James realizing he's not alone be someone crashing the Watts vs Ironwood fight to help him.

I'm not saying Atlas didn't need to change. It did. I'm not saying one good person in a bad system can save it - the opposite. A bad system will break good people trapped inside it. But I still don't think that's an excuse to be boring about it and do the most black and white story you can manage.

[citadelofmythoughts]

Ironwood vs Watts is what happens when you take a Jock who thinks too highly of himself vs a Nerd who's a total little shit, and the latter is kicking the ass of the former for most of the fight.

If you want to get REALLY technical. Watts completely defeated Ironwood, it just took a few days.

[aspiringwarriorlibrarian]

What would you consider to be your favorite fight out of the entire RWBY series?

For me, it's a tossup between RWBY vs the Ace Ops, or Ironwood vs Watts. (though some of the V4 fights do manage to hit some interest as well.)

Oh it's RWBY vs the Ace Ops definitely. Creativity, gorgeous shots, character development, and glorious, glorious teamwork.

[imjusthereforironwood]

I am curious about the timeline: since this around the end of volume 3: when would a canon timeline change for everyone?

Would this change certain viewpoints during vol 7?

Would volume 6 be team CRDL coming to help (or stop) rwby because of the Argus incident.

So, canon timeline changes around Volume 7, specifically, Chapter 3. They don't know everything that's going on, at least not yet. After all, Ironwood was trying to keep the secret of the Amity Colosseum to as small of a group as possible. Even though Cardin, Sky, Russel, and Dove are well liked, they're kept in the dark. Of course, they had their theories, with some of the ones Russel and Lark came up with closer to the mark than others. The boys think Robyn is full of it, they don't like Jacques on principle, and having lived here for a while, they aren't fond of the current council members.

Once RWBY and crew arrive, eventually they'll meet up, with some awkward interactions between Cardin and Jaune (apologies are always awkward). They'll even work together on some guardind missions, although CRDL is still kept mostly in the dark.

However, once CRDL figure out that RWBY is hiding something, Cardin will confront Ruby on this and have a pretty serious argument. This is when Qrow will act like an actual uncle and advise Ruby to fess up. This is where things differ from canon tremendously. Ironwood gets told the truth in Chapter 5, when he was giving their licenses. She'll politely decline and insist to earn hers the hard way, and in a show of solidarity, the rest of Team RWBY and ORNJ will do the same.

((all of them will also apologize to Oscar and Ozpin, but that's another thing.))

This will be the point where CRDL is clued in on the details. A lot of things happen a bit differently from here. Politics will get messy, Wattscand Tyrian will do their thing, Jacques will be an actually competent political threat, Penny will still be blamed, Robyn isn't helping. But instead of everyone acting like idiots in the finale, they'll manage to stay mostly together. Until the revelation that Salem is on their doorstep and the trolley problem of Atlas and Relics vs risking everything to save everyone will occur. Problem is, Watts' virus is still messing with the Atlas systems. Couple that with the fact Penny overloaded her circuits when she took on the Winter Maiden Powers, and is currently not functioning. She's not dead yet, but without her, they can't open the Vault. So, everyone breaks off into three main groups. One of the groups tries to find Neo and the stolen Lamp, one of them tries to get Amity up and running, and another goes down to Mantle to begin evacuation. Pietro is working to restore Penny, and it's a race against the clock. If Penny isn't back online before Salem attacks, it's over. From Team CRDL, Dove and Lark will join the Amity team while Russel and Cardin will assist with evacuation. In Amity, the problem will be a sneak attack from Cinder and Emerald, while down on Mantle, Salem is beginning her ground assault, with an aerial force attacking Atlas.

Tyrian still manages to escape custody, but instead of the dumb fight we had, Qrow and Clover do the smart thing and try to stop the serial killer. Tyrian kills Clover, leaves Robyn wounded, and escapes. Once Clover and Robyn are dropped off in an infirm, Qrow heads off, with the intention of stopping Tyrian once and for all.

That was a lore dump. I am sorry for that.

[itsclydebitches]

Am I the only one that feels like that Maya!RWBY would get washed by Poser!RWBY, combat-wise? Comparing the scenes from Poser-era to Maya-era, and I find that Team RWBY in the former had better weapon usage and Semblance/Aura versatility than the latter - especially when you look at each of the trailers (I know it's 'Rule of Cool', but still...), not to mention much more coordinated team attacks. Like, Beacon!Weiss is proficient in Time Dilation and Elemental Glyphs while being a proficient fencer; in comparison, Maya!Weiss is just... a summoner. That's it. Like, she's written as if she has no other skills. 'Blek' is knocked down so easily these days and uses her Semblance as a means of escape; Blake, on the hand, not only is a proficient swordswoman but shows versatility with a Kusarigama, marksmanship, and double wielding. Oh, and that's not including her masterful use of her semblance to create afterimages to pull off blitzkrieg combos, and later infuse them with Dust for surprise feints. And how can I forget her fucking aura slashes! Yang, is tankier in Poser, and she uses her Semblance as a last resort/'uno reverse' - letting her CQC skills do the talking; meanwhile, "Yang" just... activates her semblance at the drop of a hat, ruining that surprise factor while slowly becoming heavily reliant on both it and her "weapon upgrades" (which are, in reality, downgrades since her previous explosive rounds were much more versatile in comparison). And Ruby... I can't really say much except that scythemanship-CQC combination and semblance usage were more dynamic. I know it's partly due to Monty and Shane's insane animation skills, but I feel like there's more to it than that. Sorry, these are just my observations.

Wholeheartedly agree. I mean yes, we're all continually acknowledging that we can't have the choreography and vision of the Monty years, but even beyond that recent fights have, for the most part, been shockingly forgettable for me. An immediate exception to that is Ironwood vs. Watts (which uses the environment really well) and I liked portions of the WBY vs. Chessman fight from V9E3, but on the whole the girls feel nerfed despite the claims of, "We're full-fledged huntresses now, capable of beating some of the best in the world."

To add to what you've already got above, some details that immediately spring to my mind are:

Yang repeating the same combat mistake that she made back in Volume 3, resulting in "dying" rather than losing an arm

Ruby now using her semblance primarily to travel (within Atlas HQ, out of the Red Castle, etc.) rather than pulling off cool dodges, ping-ing off of things for extra speed, or creating a tornado-like effect as seen in the food fight. As mentioned many times in the past, sometimes it's not even used for an obvious need, like scaling the mountainside while fighting Cordovin, because the story wants a 'cliffhanger.'

One of the reasons I liked the chessman battle was because we had some actual team attacks, but recent Volumes are still weighed down by separating the teams - even when the story claims that's the key to victory (AKA Ace Ops battle).

This extends to moments like YJB just taking turns against the Hound, or Neo standing there dumbly as Oscar runs the length of a hallway to punch her.

I rarely feel like fights are won with any exciting flourish or narrative satisfaction anymore. (Which is another reason why Ironwood vs. Watts works so well for me: destroying your arm as a massive 'fuck you' to what your enemy thinks you're capable of withstanding to catch them unaware in their confidence is AMAZING.) I still think about Weiss summoning a wall of ice for Harriet to knock herself out against and I'm like... really? That's it?

Ruby doesn't really use her sniper rifle anymore. I loved that she used that to obey Qrow's "Stay back!" command while still trying to help. That used to be another way to slow descent, get in quick shots between swings, help an ally like when she hit Nora with the lightning dust...

I could go on. So many of the new fights are just plain boring to me. Think about how much is solved through the Big Powers now. Ruby takes out The Apathy with her eyes (though I put that in only to establish the pattern. I do like that the emotion-based grimm was defeated via care for another, not fighting.) The Hound goes the same way. Oscar sets off an explosion of magic against Salem. Winter Maidens up to blast Ironwood, etc. They're all incredibly easy wins that, for the most part, just require the magic wielder to stand there and shoot the Powerful Magic Beam at the enemy. Meanwhile, other potentially well-choreographed fights are seeped in narrative problems, like Qrow and Tyrian vs. Clover. Now toss in moments like Blake begging Ruby for help, or her and Weiss being unable to get up the vines, or them straight up forgetting that Cinder is in the city (because strategy is as important as power) and yeah, OG!RWBY would wipe the floor with them.

OG!RWBY is made up of a prodigy child wielding "one of the most dangerous weapons ever designed," a sword master capable of manipulating time, her teammate's powers, versatile glyphs, and her family's dust supply, a tank who supposedly went on a journey to better harness her ability to absorb and redirect energy (which as you say used to be an awesome surprise, not a response every time Yang gets mildly annoyed at someone), and the child of combat activists who, by her own admission, had to fight early and well to survive outside the Kingdoms. Team RWBY now feels like they're powerful primarily because a) they claim they are and b) they've got various forms of magic in their back pocket.