#watts vs ironwood

[zexapher]

A Fond Farewell

With Rooster Teeth beginning its draw down, an era has truly passed. The company has lasted more than two decades. 18 (soon 19) seasons, five mini-series, and cameos and references in Halo itself for Red vs Blue. 9 volumes alongside two movies, a chibi series, Ice Queendom, and its own games for RWBY. And so much more beyond that, RT Shorts, podcasts, Achievement Hunter, The Slow Mo Guys, and on and on. That’s a lot, especially for a little startup launching off a web series. I was listening to “This Isn’t Goodbye, It’s See You Later” by Richie Branson while I was making this little memorial post. It’s a song made for another Rooster Teeth show, Camp Camp, and I have to say it’s some very appropriate music for this moment.

The day the news dropped, I wrote up a little comment in response to Rooster Teeth beginning its closing down, and I thought I’d share some of it here. I grew up with Rooster Teeth, a bit of a cheesy line I know, but it’s true for a lot of us. I was just a little kid way back in the early 2000’s, a kid that liked Halo (a game I didn’t even own for a long time, but played at a friend’s house), and was just getting curious about what I could find about it on YouTube. And that brought me into the world of music videos and skits and montages made for that little game I liked.

From there, I discovered a small web series called Red vs. Blue. I’d sneak onto my folk’s computer to watch it since they didn’t appreciate the language, and in doing so I dipped my toes into the wide world of the internet for the first time. As I got older, I eventually hopped onto Reddit for its discussion threads of Rooster Teeth’s latest show, RWBY. I began my first in-depth fandom interactions, speculating about the show, enjoying the flood of fanart, even got into fanfics about RWBY (those fics have had their own amazing evolution alongside the show) and to this day it’s the fandom I’ve followed and bookmarked the most fics from. All the while I was making friends and bonding with people through the community this company and its shows have created.

Watching the shows and people grow over time was, looking back on it, just like watching myself grow. I was never really a social media/internet kind of guy, until it came to Rooster Teeth. The shows, shorts, podcasts, it all opened up a whole new world for me. It’s sad to see it coming to a close, and I hope it gets picked up in the future. But I’m happy, too, that it’s left so much behind, and had such an impact on me. It’s left me with so many good memories. Rooster Teeth, its shows, those that created and worked on it, and above all the community around it will always have a special place in my heart.

So, I bid a fond farewell to Rooster Teeth and its crew, and anyone who may drift away from the fandom in time. I wish you all the best.

[coinjarred]

Lwk I don’t don’t blame jimmy too much for going mad in vol 7 & 8

I would loose my shit too if a hot girl leaves me w/ ptsd, the embodiment of the anti-Christ shows up outside my lawn, and 1/4th of Jesus becomes my robo daughter in the span of two days.

And I’m trying to argue with teenagers but fumbling so bad and my “dead” ex is there watching it all like fml already dude.

[citadelofmythoughts]

So I was thinking recently of a very odd double standard that I've noticed in the RWBY fandom, namely that fakeout deaths specifically for female characters tend to be taken at face value vs some groups of fans expecting male characters to come back from blatantly impossible to survive situations. For example, Yang and Cinder both individually fell down into a black void, the most obvious anime fakeout death trope ever, yet tons of people on social media were like "ZOMG SHE'S TOTALLY 100% DEAD!" (and quite a few assholes actively celebrated it, I will never forget a dude with an Adam pfp calling Yang a "basic white bitch" as he cheered when Worthy aired). And yet Adam being stabbed in the heart and lung before having his spine pulverized on a rock, Watts being set on fire in the middle of a collapsing kingdom, Ironwood being abandoned to die at ground zero of said kingdom? Hundreds of people online actively expecting them to be back and being mad they aren't.

Again it's a very weird trend and it may not be the same people doing it each time, but it really goes to show what certain people's priorities are in this fanbase.

I remember that reaction to Yang falling and I was like "You really think they're going to KILL one of the title characters? Your misogyny and homophobia has rotted your brain."

Adam, Jacques and Jimmy ain't coming back.

[hadesisqueer]

[bluecheeseinmyoffwhites]

These fights have been regarded as the most investing/satisfying/memorable of their volumes by the majority of the FNDM. My question is which is the BEST of the best??

[itsclydebitches]

Something really heartbreaking to think about is that Ironwood probably thought RWBY and co allied with Salem. He sees Emerald, who he doesn’t know switch sides, fighting with JNPR as well as Winter, his lieutenant, to stop him. I really wonder what his last thoughts were. His allies turn against him, Winter betrays him, and they side with Salem. It’s no wonder he gave up.

That could have definitely been a thought Ironwood had, but only if he knows who Emerald is and I'm not sure he does? She seems to have kept a low criminal profile - evidenced by her being able to attend Beacon for the festival/Ironwood only being concerned with Roman as an agent - and during the attack she's up on the rooftops, watching the grimm do the work for them. She then heads back to Salem's lair, spends the majority of the ensuing Volumes there/visiting the occasional spot outside of Atlas, and then when she does enter the city it's via Salem's whale. I think her switching sides and leaving might be the only time she and Ironwood could have feasibly crossed paths after Beacon and, as said, she was "good" by then. Unless I'm forgetting something, Ironwood's reaction to seeing Emerald with the group would probably be less, "Omg Salem minion!" and more Volume 5 Cinder @ Jaune: "Who this?"

Which, you know, really highlights the lack of developed connections among our cast. Characters stay within their own circles and though we assume they should understand the role the rest of the cast plays because we have that information, the reality is they've never interacted, or even - as far as we know - gathered intel on them, like the Ace Ops had on Tyrian.

Regardless, yeah. Personally, I think a lot about the Inner Circle members that have joined Salem (Lionheart), or are trying to straddle the line (Raven), so when your allies show up to take you out, what are you likely to assume? Remember, Ironwood left the group after they'd already betrayed him to Robin, after someone (Cinder) managed sneak into his office, after Watts nearly took out Amity through insider access (Jaques), after Salem herself sent a grimm to tell him, 'You've lost. It's only a matter of time.' So Ironwood is already primed to look for Salem agents, based on both past and present experience, and then the group he tried to have arrested comes back.

Why would they do that? He tried to have them arrested, the Ace Ops clearly failed, they've been sneaking around the city since (Ironwood has that call with Penny)... and now they've staged an attack on him. Obviously they're trying to take him off the board, but only the audience has the full, moral picture as to why. What's Ironwood more likely to assume? That this group is stalling his plan to leave with the Relics/some survivors for two days and then personally stage an elaborate plan to take him out, all because they're just that morally repulsed by an imperfect solution that would at least somewhat hinder their mutual enemy... or that they're doing all this because they're working for that enemy?

The convoluted nature of the group's justifications vs. what Ironwood would likely assume is not only tragic, but further highlights just how Bad this all was. It's been said a million times now, but the fact that the writing (via our characters) spends a whole Volume more concerned with taking out a flawed ally than fighting the LITERAL VILLAIN SITTING OUTSIDE just really says it all to me. Do they want to do something about the whale? No, they only go there to get Oscar and the whale's destruction is a bonus no one saw coming. Do they want to fight the massive grimm army teams like FNKI are battling right outside? No, they need to rest in the mansion and watch over Nora. If they can't think of a way to get everyone out before Salem crushes them, are they willing to just let Ironwood, a city full of people, and the relics hopefully get to safety while they do what they were gonna do anyway: minor damage control, sitting around debating, and not engaging with Salem?

Nope.

Our villains did more in that Volume than the heroes did. Emerald left, Hazel 1v1ed Salem, Cinder was her normal, messy self, and Ironwood not only kept them from being overrun with his army but had a whale bomb ready to go. Meanwhile, the heroes were laser focused on fighting their own allies instead of doing anything about the baddies, right down to Qrow deciding that fighting Clover is more important than transporting/fighting/tying up Tyrian.

If I were Ironwood I would ABSOLUTELY think that the group had joined Salem, or were at least trying to play both sides like Raven did in an attempt to save themselves, because the alternative is too absurd for anyone to hit on without that omniscient perspective.

[iamafanofcartoons]

r/RWBYcritics/comments/17ol6je/at_this_point_is_there_a_universe_rwby_can_even/

I honestly hate when people try to power scale Team RWBY to other character from other series. All they do is downplay their strength and call them weak. I bet if Team RWBY was all men, they would be calling them strong.

Well, that's not it, actually.

These people, when they "criticize" RWBY, they may watch the show, but they completely ignore what the show is about, its themes, what the writers are trying to do.

Here, I'll give examples. Star Trek vs Warhammer 40K Sailor Moon vs Dragonball Z/Naruto The former: women as protagonists or at least equal to men both physically and mentally, LGBT Themes, skill over strength, exploration of psychological and societal concepts, the women in the show can do amazing things that the guys cannot, you have to turn your brain ON to enjoy the show or at least think.

The latter: Women are lesser than men physically/mentally, fanservice, retcons, strength over skill, power solves everything, talking down women and telling them they suck, you turn your brain off to enjoy the show, and of course plot armor.

RWBY at the end of the day is not a shonen show....and many people hate on it because they want it to be. They WANT the men to be greater than the women. They want there to be power levels. They want women to be talked down to and made lesser. They want the show to "not be woke" Ironwood is only powerful because of his guns. Adam is a one-trick pony whose only a threat because of his semblance. Both are defeated using approaches that don't rely on screaming and power levels. The women win using skill, not strength or power levels. The theme of the show is about optimism not mary/gary stu stuff. The RWBY characters don't get plot armor, unlike shonen mcs. They suffer loss. People will scrape from the bottom of the barrel to find a reason to hate on RWBY, including somebody making a video claiming that Jaune wearing the dress was apparently offensive and bad writing.

RWBY still has cool fight scenes, but those fight scenes also mean something. Watts was nearly able to defeat Ironwood using brains, and Ironwood only won by powering through something, permanently losing an arm that he immediately replaced with a prosthetic. adam was nearly able to defeat yang and blake, who had to use brains and teamwork to win. Let me quote Vegeta from Dragon Ball Abridged "Power levels are bullshit"

You should watch Dragon Ball Abridged by Team Four Star, they recently wrapped up the Buu Saga.

They do a lot of trope inversion and deconstruction in their parody. And of course they're very respectful to the original show. But yeah, RWBY ain't a shonen show...it HAS shonen elements, but its more like a magical girl show with shonen elements mixed into it. Honestly the thing about RWBY is that its unique, you can't find anything like it anywhere...and that's part of the sad thing.

[howlingday]

Neutral Stalemate

Jacques: (Yelling over the cacophony) Gentlemen! Gentlemen, please! Gentleman, show some control! Gentle-

Emerald: Ugh! Will you shut up with that?! Not all of us have as much testosterone as you. Of course, you're not exactly meeting the bar, either.

Jacques: One, hurtful. Two, you knew what I mea- I mean, let's keep this meeting civil.

Ironwood: You're pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining! Do you really think it's fair to only send ONE Hunter to a Level 5 combat?!

Watts: One Hunter is plenty.

Salem: We're talking about a Level 5. That's like a Grimm that blows smoke to hide itself! If you're afraid of a Level 5- One Hunter is too many to be honest!

Ironwood: You're kiccking me in the balls and telling me my undies are too tight! Every Hunter knows that ANY Kingdom intervention is equivalent to a bullhead load of fecal matter is about to make contact with the oscillating rotor!

Jaune: Thirty years ago, Maria Calavera VS Angela Hertz. One village destroyed, dozens killed, almost a hundred injured, and more than twenty pictures sent to the tabloids. That, ladies and gentlemen, was a Level 5 combat.

Emerald: Maria Calavera used unauthorized experimental dust, AND is a Huntress, which means she was under YOUR custody. Meanwhile, the Salem Agent, Angela Hertz, had her ribcage shattered trying to stop the Huntress and died the next day!

Qrow: (Sighs) You're missing the point. That bloodbath was a Level 5 combat-

Emerald: WITH A LEVEL 8 DUST WEAPON! Used by YOUR Huntress that the Kingdoms REFUSE to oversee!

Jacques: Settle down, gentle- person! We'll get to supervision and custody soon. Let's stay on topic!

Watts: One Hunter to Level 5 combat. It's our gift to you. Take it.

Ironwood: You're throwing up in my hair and telling me it's shampoo! No deal!

Watts: Going once...

Nora: You're chopping off my ass and telling me I lost weight! We want two Huntresses!

Jacques: Hunters!

Emerald: Oh, NOW you care!

[metawatts]

Thoughts on the PEAK Ironwood vs Watts fight from vol7?

Creative use of environment my beloved: Watts hacks. the whole. the whole arena. what a godtier move. The way he uses the changing gravity, the geysers, the magma, his own hardlight hexagons, even the different levels of height. The way JAMES uses it, where at one point you see him pick a different route just so he can get the drop on Watts. You do not see shit like this in other rwby fights, you really don't.

Interesting understanding of strengths and weaknesses on both sides: James has one goal in the fight and that is 'get in close'. He knows the moment he's in there he's going to absolutely body Watts, and Watts knows it too. They're both counting Watts's bullets (hilarious), and Watts is doing everything he can to prey on breaking down James's aura and stay away before James gets him. They both know exactly what the other can and can't do, and it's just a really interesting thing. And then when both auras are off and they close ranks? How Watts hides a ploy behind ploys and James shows just how tough his willpower is? great characterisation

Great song: I don't care what anyone else says: Caleb Hyles killed this, good on him, you go dude, take the crown, Hero is rad

Good voice acting: I mean these two VAs are two of the best in rwby. Jason Rose brings his everything to Ironwood (even if the lines are stupid), and Christopher Sabat is a goddamn professional, that's All Might, Major Armstrong, and Azure Lion right there

Emotional and evocative: 'you always were a pain in the ass' 'you never appreciated my genius' I love the messy break up so much these two had History sizzling right off the bone and it was so much more than we usually get in rwby writing, where they refuse to let anyone else interact with their villains unless its straight up torture porn (cough). what a shame

[erros429]

important follow up question but coming from m e

what are your least favorite weapons

ooooh that’s a tough one!!

i want to say jaune’s bores me b/c compared to all the cool ass shit we’ve seen, it’s just… a sword. but i also understand why it is how it is, so. whatever. it’s fine.

another is probably ironwood’s weapon, which in any other circumstance it’d also bore me, but his fight with watts is SO entertaining that it’s like. how can i even say i dislike it. that being said, watts’s gun is also boring. the highlight of that fight was just getting to see a brains vs brawn dynamic in the amity arena tbh

(and also this is just a pet peeve of mine, not really a least fav weapon. but how does oz’s staff take down grimm when it is literally just a blunt metal stick. like ik it has magic in it which is cool, but that magic isn’t constantly being used. and there’s no dust to back up the attacks either. so how is there any damage being done to grimm when everyone else is using sharp weapons and dust and shit 😭)

[lacependragon]

Ultimately what I would have found interesting is to take the Atlas and Tinman allegories much further.

Atlas is broken. The military system in place is clearly bad, okay, let's push more into James being a broken hero, then. Lean more into his song. He is under the impression that "one good man" at the top of a bad system can fix it.

He is wrong. He refuses to see he is wrong. Mettle helps with that.

He wears himself down further and further, refusing to ask for help, because all the stories talk about one hero saving everyone. One person breaking free to fix the system. And so he suffers under this enormous weight alone, even though he doesn't have to.

And it breaks him. He becomes so focused on trying to fix the system that he refuses to see that dismantling it is a better option. He becomes so focused on maintaining his power so he can fix the system that he doesn't recognize that he has to dismantle his own position early on to make any of this have a point.

He refuses to see that he can't do it all, alone, and with all the power he wants. His Ace Ops become enamoured with James' vision of a better Atlas and follow him forward, blinded to the bad parts of Atlas because of it. Their tunnel vision widens to see the destruction they're causing.

And James is held accountable, but he's also treated for what he is - a human being with a lot of trauma who took on far too much. And it's up to individuals if they want to forgive him, yeah, but he has to live with the consequences of his actions.

He doesn't gun down civilians or make massive bombs. He just keeps trying to fix things no matter how much of himself he has to cut off to do it. And yes he hurts people, a lot of people, but he doesn't go full nuclear option on a city.

Because there's nuance in stories. And they didn't have to make James go full fascist maniac in order to do it. And if they wanted to drop Atlas, I think it would have meant far more for a bunch of Atlesians, probably soldiers, to willingly sacrifice Atlas and put it in the ocean to draw the Grimm and give the Mantle people more time to flee, because the Atlesians are out of time. I think it'd be painful to have Team RWBY running through the streets, split between two cities, desperate to evacuate them all, and James has blue-screened and he's lost everything. All his power. All his status. All his tools. He has nothing.

And maybe we don't see him again for a while. Maybe he gets up and helps someone. I don't know.

But it's a story. Not real life. And I think it could have been interesting to force James and Clover to live with their bad decisions, to have them work toward redemption, and I think it would have fit better for James' original "misguided but trying" approach. Would have been a cooler spiral imo. Atlas is falling under the weight of the world, but only because he refuses everyone who wants to help.

Give the people of Atlas and Mantle more agency in their story. Pull a Thor: Ragnarok and let the people sacrifice their home to save themselves. Have the catalyst of James realizing he's not alone be someone crashing the Watts vs Ironwood fight to help him.

I'm not saying Atlas didn't need to change. It did. I'm not saying one good person in a bad system can save it - the opposite. A bad system will break good people trapped inside it. But I still don't think that's an excuse to be boring about it and do the most black and white story you can manage.

[aspiringwarriorlibrarian]

What would you consider to be your favorite fight out of the entire RWBY series?

For me, it's a tossup between RWBY vs the Ace Ops, or Ironwood vs Watts. (though some of the V4 fights do manage to hit some interest as well.)

Oh it's RWBY vs the Ace Ops definitely. Creativity, gorgeous shots, character development, and glorious, glorious teamwork.

[imjusthereforironwood]

I am curious about the timeline: since this around the end of volume 3: when would a canon timeline change for everyone?

Would this change certain viewpoints during vol 7?

Would volume 6 be team CRDL coming to help (or stop) rwby because of the Argus incident.

So, canon timeline changes around Volume 7, specifically, Chapter 3. They don't know everything that's going on, at least not yet. After all, Ironwood was trying to keep the secret of the Amity Colosseum to as small of a group as possible. Even though Cardin, Sky, Russel, and Dove are well liked, they're kept in the dark. Of course, they had their theories, with some of the ones Russel and Lark came up with closer to the mark than others. The boys think Robyn is full of it, they don't like Jacques on principle, and having lived here for a while, they aren't fond of the current council members.

Once RWBY and crew arrive, eventually they'll meet up, with some awkward interactions between Cardin and Jaune (apologies are always awkward). They'll even work together on some guardind missions, although CRDL is still kept mostly in the dark.

However, once CRDL figure out that RWBY is hiding something, Cardin will confront Ruby on this and have a pretty serious argument. This is when Qrow will act like an actual uncle and advise Ruby to fess up. This is where things differ from canon tremendously. Ironwood gets told the truth in Chapter 5, when he was giving their licenses. She'll politely decline and insist to earn hers the hard way, and in a show of solidarity, the rest of Team RWBY and ORNJ will do the same.

((all of them will also apologize to Oscar and Ozpin, but that's another thing.))

This will be the point where CRDL is clued in on the details. A lot of things happen a bit differently from here. Politics will get messy, Wattscand Tyrian will do their thing, Jacques will be an actually competent political threat, Penny will still be blamed, Robyn isn't helping. But instead of everyone acting like idiots in the finale, they'll manage to stay mostly together. Until the revelation that Salem is on their doorstep and the trolley problem of Atlas and Relics vs risking everything to save everyone will occur. Problem is, Watts' virus is still messing with the Atlas systems. Couple that with the fact Penny overloaded her circuits when she took on the Winter Maiden Powers, and is currently not functioning. She's not dead yet, but without her, they can't open the Vault. So, everyone breaks off into three main groups. One of the groups tries to find Neo and the stolen Lamp, one of them tries to get Amity up and running, and another goes down to Mantle to begin evacuation. Pietro is working to restore Penny, and it's a race against the clock. If Penny isn't back online before Salem attacks, it's over. From Team CRDL, Dove and Lark will join the Amity team while Russel and Cardin will assist with evacuation. In Amity, the problem will be a sneak attack from Cinder and Emerald, while down on Mantle, Salem is beginning her ground assault, with an aerial force attacking Atlas.

Tyrian still manages to escape custody, but instead of the dumb fight we had, Qrow and Clover do the smart thing and try to stop the serial killer. Tyrian kills Clover, leaves Robyn wounded, and escapes. Once Clover and Robyn are dropped off in an infirm, Qrow heads off, with the intention of stopping Tyrian once and for all.

That was a lore dump. I am sorry for that.

[citadelofmythoughts]

Ironwood vs Watts is what happens when you take a Jock who thinks too highly of himself vs a Nerd who's a total little shit, and the latter is kicking the ass of the former for most of the fight.

If you want to get REALLY technical. Watts completely defeated Ironwood, it just took a few days.

[phantomkinoc13]

RWBY: The Most Attractive Character bracket Masterpost!

Hello! Because I’m very normal about both RWBY and statistics, I’ve decided to make my own Bracket for the most attractive RWBY character, attempting to make the rounds as fair as possible. Here’s everything you should know:

Who is included?

Characters over the age of 18, who make more than one appearance, who we have seen animated, and who have at least minimal relevance to the main characters of the show.

Who is NOT included?

Characters who are under 18, characters who appear in 2 or less episodes, “grandparent” characters, gods, and relic characters. (An honorary shout out will be given for those who we love but are not included)

How is this seeded?

There are 22 male characters and 24 female characters included. They’ve been divided by gender and broken down into categories for the most logical matchups based on similar age, appearance, vibe, or role within the show. It was surprisingly difficult to put this together to be as fair as possible, because No polls are seeded to deliberately knock out a character.

How will this work?

One male character and One female character will be named the winners

Each round will last One week, the full duration of the poll.

All polls for each round will be queued to be posted at the same time, and will be all tagged as “rwby poll” “rwby bracket” “most attractive Rwby character” and “MARWBYCB”

All polls will be M/M and F/F until the very end, at which point the two winners will battle, simply for fun. However this will not effect results.

Round one consists of 23 polls, 11 m/m polls, and 12 f/f polls. There is a list below if you want to make sure you’ve participated in all of them.

Round one will start Saturday Feb 25th at 10:00 am (pst) and go until Saturday march 4th.

Full list of included characters

Male list Female list

Qrow Salem

Ironwood Cinder

Ozpin Winter

Ozma Raven

Watts Human Salem

Taiyang Willow

Ghira Kali

Ooblek Glynda

Jaqcues Robyn

Clover Elm

Hazel Harriet

Marrow Vernal

Vine May

Roman Joanna

Tyrian Fiona

Adam Neo

Mercury Yang

Jaune Blake

Sun Weiss

Ren Nora

Neptune Penny

Flynt Pyrrha

Ilia

Emerald

Round one polls: *edit: results added

Men:

Adam vs Tyrian 50%-50%

Ghia vs Hazel 79.7%-20.3%

Taiyang vs Clover 80.3%-19.7%

Mercury Vs Roman 42.9%-57.1%

Ironwood vs Watts 80.4%-19.6%

Qrow vs Ooblek 82.8%-17.2%

Ozpin vs Ozma 43.8%-56.2%

Jaqcues vs Vine 14.5%-85.5%

Marrow vs Flynt 64.5%-35.5%

Jaune vs Neptune 56.2%-43.8%

Ren vs Sun 63%-37%

Women:

Pyrrha vs Ilia 70.1%-29.9%

Salem vs Glynda 40%-60%

Cinder vs Human Salem 58.2%-41.8%

Winter vs Joanna 92.8%-7.2%

May vs Vernal 71.4%-28.6%

Willow vs Kali 25.7%-74.3%

Robyn vs Raven 54.9%-45.1%

Harriet vs Emerald 15.5%-84.5%

Weiss vs Fiona 69.2%-30.8%

Nora vs Penny 64.3%-35.7%

Neo vs Yang 32.2%-67.8%

Blake vs Elm 79.5%-20.5%

*this post will be updated for each round.

[laserdog10]

I still think Watts would've been more of the villain in Volume 7 if he had an idea of a clone army. Or if anything, would have been Dr. Merlot who could've come up with this idea if he survives Grimm Eclipse.

Watts so should've been the main villain for Volume 7, and 8. I don't mind Ironwood little mental break but I don't think he should've been the main villain. Antagonist maybe, but full on villain?

While I agree Ironwood going off the deep end was bound to happen, he was just a stressed man who had been through too much.

Watts meanwhile got HARD shafted, this man had all the beef with Atlas perfectly placed and could've had a whole showdown with Weiss and foreshadow a future RWBY vs WTCH battle!

Merlot on the other hand deserves his own time to shine, cause not to show bias but...Merlot is just a better cooler Watts, hell he fills every role of Team WTCH besides maybe Hazel.