#vulcan jedi

[one-real-imonkey]

I will continue to die on the hill that Vulcans and Jedi are fundamentally the same and that they’re misunderstood by portions of their fandoms in the same way.

Sci-fi said have a group of telepathic people who feel emotions so strongly it’s dangerous and therefore have resorted to using logic to make decisions instead and those fans said “they’re emotionless, they don’t feel anything at all”.

[charliejaneanders]

Jedi knights and Vulcans were an essential part of Star Wars and Star Trek from the very beginning, and twentieth century viewers would have come away with a mostly positive impression of them. That changed drastically in the late 1990s, when both Trek and Wars started portraying their respective bands of detached, disciplined seekers of truth as uptight jerks. What happened?

In my latest newsletter, I'm trying to understand why both Star Trek and Star Wars turned against their versions of Space Buddhists.

[aspiringnexu]

Saw a post a while ago that mentioned a debate among Star Wars fans and Star Trek fans about the typical who-would-win between a Borg Cube and the Death Star.

I'll leave them to that debate because who-would-win is highly dependent on the plot anyway and that kind of debate only leads to arguments (plus I find it incredibly boring, I'd much rather debate things like the similarities and disparities between human cultures in the two universes, one with and one without Earth, that would be interesting). But what did catch my eye was a mini-debate later on with people discussing whether or not said Cube would detect the Death Star approaching, the argument being that the modes of travel in the two different universes (namely warp and hyperspace) are so different that the Cube wouldn't be able to detect the Death Star until it reverted to real space.

Which reminded me how much I love that the two travel systems are so similar and yet so different.

I won't be able to get too technical, I'm sure some fans know the exact ins and outs of both kinds of space traversal, but the fundamental difference is how the ships attain FTL, or Faster Than Light. Because otherwise space travel takes FOREVER.

In Star Trek they use impulse engines to putter about for more precision maneuvering but use warp engines to achieve FTL, the warp engines 'warping' space by making a subspace bubble around the ship and therefore insulating it from the extreme pressures of breaking normal physics. As you do.

In Star Wars they use sublight engines for the usual puttering and maneuvering but instead they rely on the hyperdrive to achieve FTL which punts the ship into hyperspace, basically a parallel dimension where ships can achieve FTL without undue stress to the ship itself.

In both cases ships can be pulled out of their warp bubbles or their hyperspace streams due to factors in normal space. In Star Wars, for example, there exist Interdictor class ships which produce massive gravity wells, similar to those of moons or any other significant cosmic body which forces ships to drop out of hyperspace in order to avoid crashing into said body. (This also makes jumping into hyperspace too close to a planetary body incredibly risky. Not impossible, mind, but there is a reason planetary governments have a minimum distance allocated for incoming and outgoing ships.) Star Wars also makes a big deal out of Hyperspace Lanes (there was an entire war fought over them at one point) which are routes that have been confirmed to be empty of any cosmic phenomena discounting the occasional asteroid that wanders in. They're used as major shipping lanes and commercial passenger transports as a result. You can, of course, elect not to use the routes but you run the risk of encountering surprises even with a navicomputer.

In Star Trek the same rules seem to apply with various cosmic phenomena able to disrupt the warp drive and pull the ship out of warp, whether it be extreme gravimetric distortions that require precision piloting to avoid or nebula too thick for the engines to filter or, really, the list goes on. Could be anything from a nebula to the glowing green hand of a supposed Greek god stopping you from going to warp.

But regardless of the actual metrics of the two kinds of space travel, I find the idea that neither ship would be expecting the other to just appear incredibly amusing.

Neither universe would have any experience with a ship that travels in a space bubble or a ship that just casually drops in from another dimension and really why focus on inter-fandom discourse when you can focus on the incidental comedy?

[darfeld]

Pike: So who are you people again? You say you're not here to make war but you just showed up with a big battleship more than three time ours size, full of cloned super soldier.

Obi-Wan: Yes, I understand your confusion. I admit we were going to a battle, which does takes place in a global galactic conflict.

Pike: A galactic conflict that a good quarter of the galaxy doesn't know about.

Obi-Wan: That part confuses us as well. Our instrument tells us we are not in the right galaxy, but we're not sure how it's possible. Anyway, to answer your question Captain, I'm Master Jedi Obi-Wan Kenobi, commander of the 7th sky corp of the galactic republic army, and member of the Jedi Council.

Pike: So the Jedi are... the leading class of that republic?

Obi-Wan: Absolutely not! We only serves as peace keepers for the republic, which is governed by a senate and a democratically elected chanceler.

Pike: So a military force?

Obi-Wan: Not usually no. Before the war we used to negotiate peaceful resolution to conflicts.

Pike: Why a cast of diplomats would be commanding armies?

Obi-Wan: No see... The Jedi are more than diplomates. And I wouldn't say we are a cast either. Let me explain : We Jedi are users of the Force, which is an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us and binds the galaxy together. I mean our galaxy but I sense it here too, so I guess it extend farther than we knew. We suspected it, but now we have confirmation, which is rather fascinating. Using the Force gives us great powers, but it can also drive people to the dark side if they use their power for selfish reasons. So we have to train all our lives to control our emotions. The war we are fighting now has been instigated by a member of another group of users of the Force who use it to gain power. We call them the Sith and you could say they are our mortal ennemies.

Spoke: Fascinating. This is somewhat similar to the history of my people, the vulcans, and the romulans. However you do not seem to repress your feelings like we do.

Obi-Wan: Indeed, we don't. We just accept our feelings and let them pass.

Spoke: At the risk of repeating myself, fascinating. I hope we can find a moment to exchange notes on our methods of dealing with emotions. Are you familiar with the concept of mind meld?

Obi-Wan: This sounds like a interesting idea, but I'm not sure I should let you in my mind. I am a fleet commander and a Jedi Council member after all.

[handspunyarns]

[attapullman]

The Boys Are Back / Whodunit? Origin Story

Summary: When best friends and childhood sleuths Bob Floyd and Mickey Garcia grow up, everything seems less fun. Thankfully things are about to completely change for these two hometown goofs.

Word Count: 1.7k

Warnings: 18+ as always, language, 80s inaccuracies, sci-fi opinions do not reflect that of the author

A Note From Mo: As would be the only appropriate gift for providing the inspiration for Whodunit?, happy birthday @bobgasm! Thank you for loving these two as much as me and helping make their story as fun as it is. Wishing you the best birthday on New Zealand time (we'll be celebrating America time as well, don't worry 😉)

origin story / prologue / whodunit? masterlist

“Are you really trying to convince me that Return of the Jedi is better than The Wrath of Khan?” Mickey couldn’t wipe the look of disgust off his face at this zit-faced teenager at the counter. The two fairly recent box office hits were a common disagreement, and this kid came in thinking he knew all that and a bag of chips.

“Force lightning? Luke trying to redeem his father? Dude, George Lucas made the last two movies true masterpieces, cinematic perfection!” 

Rolling his eyes, aware that this knucklehead has no clue who he’s going against (all the best film geeks in town knew to not go against Fanboy Garcia and his sci-fi knowledge), Mickey dropped the copy of Raiders of the Lost Ark into a plastic bag along with the receipt.

“The Wrath of Khan brought people to tears. Invested us deeper into the characters we’ve loved for years, grown up with. Spock’s death shocked an entire nation, no doubt about it. And don’t be stupid, Vulcan nerve pinch defeats Force lightning every time.” He slides the bag across the counter with a scoff. “Movie is due back Tuesday. Come back with some real ammunition next time, airhead.”

Cheeks red, the teen grabs his bag and scuttles out of the Blockbuster. The bell chimes and suddenly the shop is empty. 

While the access to new releases and movies in the break room were great perks, Mickey was so over this job. The blunderhead teens with their gnarly opinions, the bratty moms who always complain about the return dates. It’s just renting a movie for a week, not that complicated. When was his cousin going to get back to him about that maintenance gig at city hall? The sci-fi fan slumped against the counter and continued watching the copy of Legend they just got in.

Across town, Bob was also struggling with his work day. When was everyone going to realize he didn’t set the price of parts? He wasn’t even really a mechanic, just a guy who needed a summer job in high school and never stopped coming in. A star employee, he enjoyed the puzzle of putting components together and the purr of a perfectly oiled engine. 

It may not have been his dream job, but the free parts for his ’65 Mustang and the content silence he and his uncle worked in wasn’t horrible.

Two more customers come in and try the haggle the price. Neither are impressed with the calm way Bob explains the cost of labor and parts, rubbing his greasy palms impatiently on his coveralls as he breaks down why he doesn’t work for free. And when he asks if they’d like him to undo the work to cut the cost, pocketbooks are pulled out and he’s got money in his pocket for beers later.

His uncle is long gone by the time Bob locks up the shop with a heavy padlock on the garage door. His boots scuff in the dirt as he makes his way to the Mustang, her blue paint shining in the late summer sun. She was stunning.

The breeze whipped through his hair - too long for his mother’s liking - as he drove across town. Mickey was just opening the door to The Alibi as he parked on the street. The best friends tip their heads in greeting.

“Bobby.”

“Fanboy.”

The two slap their hands together. Palms first, then two slaps from the back, before looping around to fist bump. A handshake from elementary school that somehow has carried on twenty years. After a few drinks a shimmy will make its way into the mix.

They take up residence at the bar, the same spot they’ve occupied a few nights a week since they walked out of that Navy enlistment meeting and never looked back. The bartender always knows to hand out whatever’s cheapest unless they’re holding paychecks.

“How many people confuse Star Wars and Star Trek today?” The cutting glare Mickey gives him says it all. Probably not the best time to make a Darth Khan joke.

Lost in the clatter and whoops of the bar, the best friends mull over their meaningless hourly jobs and contemplate the meaning of ‘the man’. Bob’s leather jacket hangs off the stool back, the sticky air of the bar clinging to the twentysomethings’ skin. One beer becomes two, two becomes three as the weekend arrives.

A loose curl hanging over his forehead, Mickey makes eyes contact with a babe across the room. He’d happily spend the evening with those beautiful eyes. The only perk of this dingy bar is it’s the only one in town, and a mix of old classmates and new-in-towns keep the dating game fresh.

Bob himself does a quick look around at the night’s prospects, doing a double take. No, it couldn’t be. When did the police captain’s daughter get back into town? She shoots an amiable smile and nod back before turning to her own drink and friends. 

Mickey raises his eyebrows at his bud. Bob shoves him off his stool on the way to the bathroom.

As the night progresses, only the young and the young at heart (and alcoholics) are still in their seats at The Alibi. The best friends are a handful of beers deep, leaning across the bar to chat with Mickey’s childhood neighbor, Tom - a gruff guy with a beer gut and a penchant for belching when he laughs. They love making him laugh.

“I tell you two about the rocks that keep showing up on my doorstep?”

Mysterious rocks? The boys lean in closer, their light denim-clad pelvises nearly over the bar top. Shaking their heads, all ears, they urge Tom for more information.

“Been happenin’ for months now. At first I didn’t think anything of it. Animals maybe? But they keep getting bigger and bigger. Tripped over one the size of a melon yesterday, stupid fucking rock. Belchhhh.” The boys snicker into their beers. “Can’t figure out who’s doing it. Gonna end up breaking my front step with a mountain one of these days.”

The boys exchange a look as they contemplate the conundrum. Who would just leave rocks on Tom’s doorstep? Wouldn’t it get old after a few weeks? And rocks of all things?

“It’s not that big of town. Who could it be?” Mickey cocks his head to the side. Tom has always been a nice guy. A little oblivious, but harmless. “Your ex-wife back in town?”

The bearded man shakes his head, scratching the underside of his belly as he realizes it’s time to call it a night. 

As Tom goes to pay his tab, Phil, who’s been manning the bar at The Alibi since before LBJ was in office, spoke up. “You two solved mysteries as kids, yeah?” 

The young men give him a perturbed look, confused why he’d bring up their silly sleuthing games from decades before. Hesitant, Bob nods. Who could forget the years spent hunched in random hiding spots, notebooks and binoculars at the ready. Mickey still had a scar from falling out of the second floor stairwell in the community center.

Tom is delighted, his drunken eyes lighting up. “Any chance you two could take a whack at figuring out who’s leaving all these fucking rocks on my doorstep? There’s a twenty in it for ya.”

It’s been…years since they last solved anything. Petty crimes from other classmates, some neighborhood drama, but that was before puberty. Did they still have the gift?

“Sure man, why not?” Shoulders are shrugged, hands are shook tipsily. They’d stop by in the morning before their shifts. Natural curiosity has them dying to see the assortment of rocks.

Tom heads out and the boys clink the necks of their bottles together, enjoying the last sip of the night. Who knew where this was going, but they were always up for a challenge.

A week later, the two returning sleuths are hunched over behind a bush with a pack of pretzels and a six-pack, mud caking Mickey’s new Air Forces. There’s cigarette stubs in the dirt and they’ve been arguing over the best flavor of Fanta for an hour.

In the wee hours of the morning Tom’s next door neighbor sneaks into his garden to place a rock roughly the size of a pumpkin on the front step. The shared fence issue Tom thought to be resolved? Definitely not. 

Another neighborhood drama solved. Twenty dollars in their pocket.

But with the solve comes a burning itch that Mickey can’t scratch. Keeps him up at night, lives in the corner of his brain while he rents movies to bored-face teens. A blazing fire that can only be tended, not extinguished.

“What if we started our own detective agency?”

Bob spat out his ginger ale on Mrs. Garcia’s freshly cleaned granite countertop. Was Fanboy tripping?

“C’mon man, why not? Put up some flyers and solve whatever rinky dink shit comes up in our free time? Make some extra cash? We might actually be able to move out on our own. Don’t you want freedom?” 

They’d been bitching about it for months, wanting to get out of their childhood bedrooms and actually do something with their lives. So the Navy wasn’t for them, but that didn’t mean they couldn’t serve their community in other ways. Maybe this was the answer to their unsure futures.

Bob grabbed his best friend’s hand, the decade-old handshake turning into a brotherly hug. “Just promise me we won’t get into anything too crazy. I like my Sundays on the couch.”

In six months they’d raised the cash for their own apartment, a small two bed in the dusky pink modular building off Main Street. In a year the amateur sleuths had been in the local paper twice. And two years and several police case assistances later, they stood across from the police captain’s daughter, not a smile in sight.

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[elbiotipo]

I wish JJ Abrams had the balls to actually destroy Coruscant in The Force Awakens, it's never been confirmed to me but when I saw the city planet being destroyed, it was perhaps the only moment that really surprised me from the movie (the rest is just A New Hope 2) I was like, holy shit, they actually destroyed Coruscant. I thought wow, JJ took his hate for the prequels up to that point, I don't necessarily agree but that takes balls.

Then I learned it was just a random planet we literally NEVER heard of, in fact, the New Republic had a rotating capital so if anything it means it was even less ineffectual. Could you imagine if one of the most iconic and important planets of the franchise was destroyed right there? It would have set the tone for a lot of stuff, it would have changed the path of the plot beyond the Skywalkers (because you destroyed the capital of the galaxy) setting the tone of the war to come. It would also been a remake of JJ destroying Vulcan in Star Trek though, so we could say he had a modus operandi.

No worries, we would have our session of pointless twists with the Last Jedi so whatever.

[indignantlemur]

hello, I have a bit of an odd question. For each species culture in Star Trek do you think would fit in Star wars? I think the andorians and Klingons fit with the mandalorians. What do you think?

Have a nice day.

Hello! This is a fun question!

I'm gonna narrow the scope a little, because if I did every Star Trek species we'd be here forever, but I'll try to hit all the main ones.

Andorians: I could see Andorians fitting neatly into the realm of Pantoran or Chiss characters pretty easily, and what little we know about the Chiss feels a lot like it could parallel Andorians in their earlier, more isolationist histories. I particularly feel like the rigid social structures of the Chiss and their military philosophies would fit quite nicely with Andorian values. Likewise, Pantorans share some similarities with Andorians, like exceptional hearing and coloration. Additionally, the tradition of garnering tattoos to indicate family and allegiance amongst Pantorans does feel similar to Andorian chitin patterns.

Humans: Humans across all universes are pretty much the same, let's be honest. If you take an average Star Trek Human civilian and plonk them down on an average Core World in the 'Wars universe, they'll do just fine.

Vulcans: Of all the species, I feel like Vulcans prove to be excellent candidates for Jedi recruitment, but that's not actually a species, so: Kel Dor. Hear me out: they have sages, they're largely mysterious, they are on the whole very force sensitive (psychically powerful) and they keep much of their culture and traditions to themselves. It's a stretch, admittedly, but I think it kind of works.

Trill: Phydolons feel like a good match. They're a symbiotic species which form a kind of gestalt consciousness between a mammalian host and a fungal symbiote, who value wisdom and spirituality.

Klingons: The Noghri might not feel like the most immediate option to come to mind, but bear with me. Noghri are skilled warriors who utilise technology and an array of natural weapons and defenses, place high value on honour, and function societies built upon familial clans. It's not as much of a stretch as you might think, looking at that. Just as the Klingons are honed for war, the Noghri are uniquely suited for combat - though the Noghri are most well known for being assassins, rather than front-line warriors.

Orions: The Falleen, hands down. Green skin, dark hair, known to use powerful pheromones to influence others, regularly associated with major crime syndicates... it's hard not to see the parallels. It's tempting to say Twi'leks here, but honestly I feel the Falleen are a much better match.

Ferengi: Muun in general, and the Banking Clan in particular. Muun are extremely intelligent and naturally gifted at mathematics, and while the Banking Clan gives them something of a negative reputation, most Muun are pretty decent folks. Sounds familiar? Wildly different physiologies aside, I think the Ferengi and the Muun have a surprising amount in common.

Tellarites: It would be incredibly lazy to say Gamorreans here, so I won't. Truthfully, with the minimal lore on Tellarites that we have to work with, finding an equivalent for them in the Star Wars universe is a bit tricky. I'd be inclined to say the Gran, perhaps, for their colonial tendencies and agricultural leanings, but even that feels very weak to me.

Mandalorians: Mandalorians are not a species but diverse individuals who follow a shared creed, and therefore I don't feel it sensible to include it with any of the above options which are based on species. Additionally, there are at least four kinds of Mandalorians, which further complicates the issue: Death Watch, the Children of the Watch, the True Mandalorians, and the New Mandalorians. Your choices narrow down to child-abducting-hyper-militant-terrorist group, weirdly-genetically-homogenous/militant-pacifist group, militant-but-mostly-reasonable-and-kinda-culty group, and a virtually non-existent faction of militant golden-age-Mandos-cut-down-before-their-time. With all of these, your mileage may vary wildly. I could see Vulcans being attracted to the New Mandalorian philosophies, I suppose, and Andorians would probably be all over the True Mandalorian option, but it's hard to say more beyond that outside of individual circumstance.

Thanks for the ask!

[joju-but-trek]

Star Trek: Prodigy Season 2, Episode 11: Last Flight of the Protostar, Part 1

Finally, we get Star Trek: The Last Jedi.

It feels good to be back to the reviews, and I'm glad my schedule worked out that I got the break when I did. This didn't feel like as much of a midseason premiere as it could have, but it worked as one. It felt a bit like this episode worked to set up the new premise, but that wasn't the main objective. Where this episode really shines is in a lot of the animation details, but getting into that is for the spoiler section. 9/10

The animation was the star of the episode. There was so much work with the body language and the planet as a whole that sold the emotion here. Chakotay was the main example through all the times he dawdled or looked distracted during the first half, but it was some excellent body language designed in animation. The team has been phenomenal the whole season, but I do think the way Chakotay moves and interacts with his environment is the star of the episode. Especially the starting montage. It's gorgeous.

I've also given praise before to Dal and Gwyn and how they interact, but this episode has several great examples of them making physical contact or even just looking at each other to convey exponentially more than any words they share do. Also, the set design was amazing, with extra kudos to the rusted Protostar.

In terms of character beats, the crew (especially Rok) reuniting with Hologram Janeway and falling back into their old pattern was sweet. I like that this version of Janeway senses where things are going, even if she doesn't actually remember season 1. We didn't get the payoff of the crew realizing that Admiral Janeway isn't the woman they know, but we do get them finding their Janeway again and it's nice.

There are a number of great lines in the episode, but my favorite is Chakotay mangling the "Needs of the Many" line. It works as a great example of how he's turned his crash and exile into a martyr complex, and on top of that the way Ma'jel's face contorts in irritation is delightful. One of the things I liked about season 1 was how none of the crew were humans, but now that we have humans and Vulcans back for them to bounce off of it's a good progression.

I made the Last Jedi reference because Chakotay in this episode does remind me of Episode VII Luke. The resignation, the self-sacrifice, and the disinterest in doing more than what he already is all remind me of how Luke carried himself in that movie. I really liked The Last Jedi, it's one of my favorite Star Wars movies, and putting Chakotay through Luke's arc in that movie isn't something I would have thought to do. I hope it's more than a superficial coincidence and a shared sense of fun beards. Chakotay'd better end up drinking blue milk.

[werothegreat]

Okay my feed is starting to get filled with pro-Jedi cope and propaganda and I'm just like, did y'all not watch the same movies I did? Did you not see the disgust on Windu's face whenever he looked Anakin? Did you not see how coldly Yoda told Anakin to grow a pair when he came to him for emotional help? Did you not see Anakin being taken from his mother, the only person who ever showed him any affection, only to be told that the fact he missed her was going to turn him into an evil psychopath?

I get it, you've read George Lucas' interviews where he says he's a Buddhist and that a lot of the Jedi philosophy is inspired by his own personal beliefs. But looking at the actual text of the films, it seems like there's more to it than just that.

In the Original Trilogy, Obi-Wan tells us the Jedi were amazing, warriors for good, guardians of peace, the best things ever. And our hero, Luke, wants to become one. We follow him on his journey to do so, and cheer as he, at the end, rejects violence and declares himself a Jedi, "like my father before me."

But then we see the Prequels. We see what the Jedi were actually like. We see their rigidness. Their clinging to dogma. Their inability to change. Their firm belief that emotion and attachment can only lead to jealousy and destructive anger. But people don't work like that. Emotions are part of us, even fear and anger and hate. We can't just throw those away. We're not supposed to be cold, unfeeling Vulcans. Fear protects us from danger. Anger calls us to action. And hate is the only reasonable response to pure evil.

Anakin fell to the Dark Side because at every turn, the Jedi dismissed his concerns, dismissed his emotional responses, dismissed his yearning for his mother. They could have actually helped him. They could have talked to him with dignity and respect. They could have shown him any amount of warmth and comfort. Instead they were cold and distant to him, they resented him, and he grew to resent them.

And who did show him warmth and comfort and dignity? Palpatine. He swooped right in and took Anakin under his wing, and Anakin never looked back.

Western culture tells vulnerable young boys to buck up, to not cry, to not show emotion, to be strong and stoic and to not miss their mother. And those vulnerable young boys become hateful grown men who take their curdled hurt and hurt others in turn.

The Jedi failed Anakin just as much as Palpatine corrupted him. It was a joint effort.

I'm also seeing some talk that "the Light Side is the Force in balance" and don't make me laugh. The Force has two sides - Light and Dark. Ever heard of yin and yang? Darkness isn't "evil", and light isn't "good". They are two parts of the same whole. I love the first lesson Luke gives Rey in The Last Jedi - balance means both light and dark. Warmth and cold. Life and death. Peace and violence.

The Wheel of Time is a flawed series, but I really love the climax in the last book. Rand is tempted by The Dark One with a world of only light - no darkness, no evil, no death, no violence. And Rand finds it abhorrent because it is a world of no choice. No change. It's static and stagnant and there are no real people in it, only simulacra. Life cannot exist like that.

The Jedi thought that cleaving only to the light, to reject the emotions that could lead you to darkness, to be emblems of peace (while being most known for their iconic weapons, ironically), was what the Force wanted. And yet the Dark Side kept returning, whether through the Sith, or the Knights of Ren, or the Nightsisters. Because yin without yang is not balance.

Anyway I've run out of thoughts and that's probably long enough of a ramble. Keep watching The Acolyte, it's pretty great.

[spock-in-awe]

Hey, so, I made up a term and wrote a whole thing. Hope you enjoy.

Inspired by the concept of liminal spaces, liminal space characters are narratively stuck, their subjectivity seemed rendered inert. They are resistant to transiting to the next phase, on the brink of possible transformation if only they could figure out the how of transforming. However, this arrested character growth is designed by skillful hands to be temporary, and the resulting arc of change is heightened by that seemingly fixed–and problematically so–starting place.

An inherent trope among these characters is a bridging multiple worlds, identities, or contexts. They inhabit an “in-between,” a space of discomfort, uncertainty, waiting, and denial (relating to the personal, the public, or reality itself). Narratively, there might be an impending change on their horizon that they work to avoid, sacrificing pieces of their own ethical system to reach that aim. They might be running from their past actions, straddling multiple spheres of existence, or haunted by what they’ve done but unable to face the consequences. Others might be so committed to completing a task bestowed upon them they barely assess whether they are capable of even doing so. In worse emotional places are those characters who complete the task set before them, only to realize it was a horrible mistake.

At the root is their relationship to subjectivity. Who directed their understanding of self? When did that occur? Was it purposefully manipulative or purely environmental? To move through the liminal space, they must define their own subjectivity, and take control of their own identities after being buffeted by expectation, lineage, or limited opportunities.

One of the most persuasive liminal space characters of the last ten years is Ben Solo, or Kylo Ren, in the Star Wars universe. He is born under incredibly traumatic circumstances, his lineage being a splinter of the light side and the dark. Impossibly high expectations are thrust upon him before he enters the world, so too is a sinister invasion intended to corrupt him in the womb. He is purposefully kept ignorant of his grandfather’s actions, deprived of an opportunity to come to terms with the damage wrought those decades prior. Ben’s parents don’t quite notice how calculating the dark side is, or avoid doing anything about this understanding, until they send him to his uncle’s Jedi Temple. Even under his Master-level uncle’s observation, Ben struggles to integrate everything that is seemingly at odds inside him; the pull to the light, the pressure of the dark. Consequently, he is left in a state of fractured identity, split between what is acceptable and unacceptable, unable to find his place in a galaxy ruled by strict binaries. This tension boils to the surface as rage, violence, hopelessness, and subservience to those he turns after his family members fail him.

Another excellent example is Spock in the Star Trek universe. He is born half human, half Vulcan, a duality that leads to lifelong struggles not only within himself, but in the galaxy, as well. While he must suppress his emotions through training and social expectation, his internal system of rationality is encouraged during his childhood on Vulcan. Despite his father’s choice to partner with a human woman, Sarek seems to resent Spock’s individuality. In Vulcan schools, Spock is bullied by his peers for that part of his identity of which he has no control. In a more recent iteration of Star Trek, it is revealed that Spock also has a form of dyslexia, setting him further apart from those he might otherwise find a connection with. He is a unique individual, someone whose adversities aren’t recognized by those he encounters–let alone seen and validated–and so he is left to find a balance within himself with little support. His world is also one of defined boundaries, clear parameters for acceptable behaviors. This path isn’t easy for him, especially when he seeks to relate to those he finds himself drawn to, or forced to spend time with. Depending on the era of Star Trek, he deflects the advances of those around him, or falls under the influence of an alien biologic, for example, wherein he is allowed to express emotions, and later confesses that being under the pollen’s influence was the only time he felt happy.

Both these examples share a commonality: they are pushed a certain direction in response to family obligation, social expectation, or environmental constraints. This can even go as far as childhood abuse or neglect that carries on through their lives. From the clay of their childhood experiences, the liminal space characters are taught it doesn’t matter what they want for themselves; they must accept and perform an identity according to what people around them dictate as acceptable. For Ben Solo, it is dutiful Padawan to his own detriment, while as Kylo Ren, he is a conflicted tool used by those he bows to. Spock defaults to appearing as a distanced and capable science officer, hiding any internal tumult he may experience. Both have suffered for their struggles and crave relief.

For some, there is a distinct lack of agency often assigned, something that happened at the start of their journey that was entirely out of their control. Ji-Ah, a liminal space creature from Lovecraft Country, is possessed by a spirit that wreaks havoc on those she encounters. She did not consent to the spirit’s arrival–her mother invited it in for reasons all her own–and the human Ji-Ah loses her identity in the process. What is intriguing about this arc is how the spirit is the one to change, not the negated human within. That person was lost, replaced by a spirit who transforms for the better.

San, from Princess Mononoke, was abandoned by her parents in the forest. She was discovered by the Wolf Clan, whose leader Moro takes the human child in as her own to raise entirely as if she were a wolf. As San grows up with deep hatred of humans, she must confront the truth of her existence; that she comes from them, was abandoned by them, and now commits her life to stopping their destruction of the natural world. Her transition through the liminal looks similar to her starting place, living as a wolf, yet her internal conflict finds resolution through connecting with a human man she can trust.

To achieve their goals (which are usually not intrinsically motivated but outwardly so), they may suppress their innate tendencies. These often include compassion, empathy, tenderness, or caretaking. This leads to immense conflict, both externally as they aim to reach certain objectives, or internally as they combat or try to eliminate this intense intrinsic struggle. This conflict may cause violent behaviors, mental instability, or emotional chaos. When these characters are coded as “villains,” they often cause intense harm to others and themselves. They do this usually out of desperation to survive, to fit in, or perhaps to avoid perceived judgement. Depending on the narrative, they are given an opportunity to make amends for this harm. But usually in western media, they are not redeemed, let alone offered the chance to atone for the damage they inflicted while they struggled to actualize as their true selves.

The heroic versions, of which the Star Trek universe has many, benefit from extra layers of character depth, which offers an arc that builds effectively over several seasons. Whether it is an android who observes humans around himself and wishes to emulate their mannerisms, or a previous human-machine hybrid forced to sever herself from the greater machine organism, these characters depend on the external to define their identities. It takes much longer for them to find that truth within themselves.

Other characters fall into a middle ground between villain and hero coding. One such example is Ed Teach, or Blackbeard, in Our Flag Means Death. He inhabits the world as a fulfillment of his own stereotypes and exaggerations. He claims to care about little and presents a bravado to match the fearsome illustrations in history books. But eventually we see his immense dissatisfaction with the role he has been performing. His liminal space, similar to the rest, is that of moving away from this project front toward authenticity.

Joel Miller, a character originated in the Last of us video game and portrayed in a streaming show of the same name, begins as a regular man. He has a daughter, a brother, a job. It is only because of horrifying circumstances that he is forced to transform. He makes himself cold, violent, and ruthless. There can be no remainder of his previous self. Until he encounters someone to protect, and protect, he does, much to his own aggravation. His circumstances are some of the most dramatic across narratives, and how he integrates, or fails to integrate, his warring selves has fascinated audiences for over a decade.

Neither of these previous two examples have conclusions in their streaming narratives at this point. Both are left on the cliffhanger of violence, of rejection of social expectation around them. Both revert to a previous state of being, but in different ways: Ed to his Blackbeard persona, Joel to his protective father role. Whatever results from these decisions (however conscious or reactionary they are), is inconsequential. And therefore, potentially read as villainous once more, buckling under the pain of the past and fear of that suffering’s return.

The character Spike in Buffy the Vampire Slayer willingly suffers for his previous actions. Over time, he begins to recognize what he has done, takes action to make amends, and fights for his redemption. Though by the closure of the show he is deprived of what he most craves–connection–his final actions are entirely the opposite of his original ones. He countered the vampire tendencies within himself, found wholeness, and dedicated himself to a goal that was selfless.

As Spike was for some time, these characters can be confused about where they belong and crave that understanding and connection. There is a deep ache to be understood, though few of them acknowledge this desire. In fact, many go out of their way to deny it, to pretend otherwise. 

The character of Nimona, originating in the graphic novel of the same name, traverses the murky landscape of being a shape shifter. She camouflages her deep interest in finding a companion by presenting herself as a “sidekick,” someone for the villain mastermind to rely on and trust. She is uncertain of herself, carrying the wounds of centuries past, convincing herself that violence and domination are paramount. When she bonds with her new friend in unexpected ways, her deeper needs rise to the surface. But these are frightening. It is only when she is shown radical acceptance and safety does she integrate her various parts at the end of the story.

Killian Jones in Once Upon a Time jostles between presenting his desires in a joking manner, and hiding them beneath layers of anger. He is bound by revenge and denies anything in conflict with that goal. His swagger is an exaggeration, a front or projection, which is a common detail across these stories. If he claims to be a heartless villain, no one will discover just how victimized he once was.

These characters may herald chaos or drama within the narrative, amusement or disquiet for the audience. A character like Draco Malfoy in the Harry Potter series is written from the outset as a direct–if youthful–antagonist. Yet later in the story, insight into his wounded mental and emotional state arrives, eliciting the reader’s compassion. He was inculcated in an environment of bigotry and toxic superiority, of which he must decide personally to move beyond. 

Liminal space characters can appear unique in their behaviors and presentations when compared to those around them. Perhaps this is because of a heightened defensiveness, or anxiety, or refusal to engage with typical romantic situations. 

For those who are deliberately off-putting and aggressive, sarcastic and aloof, or extremely isolated by design, the audience must confront their own biases, as well. When the narrative is effective, we as consumers may empathize with these struggling individuals. We may understand why they have taken the steps they have, protected themselves, lashed out at others. 

What I love most about liminal space characters is the potential for them to heal the dueling perspectives within themselves. These characters at some point must question themselves, and when done successfully, the audience does the same: How capable are we of forming our sense of self? What does harm look like? How do we live with our mistakes? How do we shape ourselves? Is it possible to make a new choice after a long pattern of harmful behaviors? Where does this character go after discovering they have wronged so many? When is that redemptive effort enough?

Both the characters questioning themselves, and not questioning themselves (ie following external demands), may lead to feelings of loneliness and rejection. Prince Zuko of Avatar the Last Airbender rotates entirely around his father’s acceptance, and whatever he must do in order to receive it, he will. There is no cost too high, and he questions nothing. Until he stumbles into a bond with a supposed adversary, which begins to shift his perspective. This is a common trope within these stories, as well, the mirror opposite coming into sharp relief by comparison.

Frustratingly, there are far more male-presenting liminal space characters than female ones in the duality of Western media, so the “adversary” is often portrayed as female (I’m optimistic this will change as more diverse writers share their stories). In a compulsory heterosexual context, there is potential for romance, as well. This is perceived in the canon text and also by fans through their own stories. An opposing character–such as Kitara in Avatar the Last Airbender, Rey in the last Star Wars trilogy, or Captain Kirk in Star Trek–may help these liminal space characters realize they are not a lost soul, no longer a victim to their circumstances. They can offer an opposing viewpoint: what if you took a different path? You’re not required to stay this way. It’s never too late.

Hope gives the liminal space characters the sense they can make new choices and change. Hope is the kernel, the light slanting through clouds, the assurance nothing is permanent, not even a limbo state of the mind.

[kemendin]

Now that I’ve finished the Consular story, some Vanirr ramblings as I try to get a proper handle on his character….

He and Caspian were on Tython together as Padawans, though Vanirr was a couple of years older. Where Cas was stubborn and struggled with some aspects of being a Jedi, Vanirr was a natural, taking easily to the Order’s philosophies of tranquility and detachment. And it wasn’t just that it worked for him - even as a Padawan he had a deep-thinking mind, and he understood what was being taught on levels that usually took many more years of study.

Consequently, he and Cas did not get along well - not exactly rivals or adversaries, but Vanirr tends to be very preachy and ready with Jedi aphorisms, which didn’t mesh well at all with Cas’ logical mind and inability to remain calm or passive. You know that episode of DS9 with Sisko and his Vulcan rival at the academy? Take out the deliberate heckling/antagonism, and that’s Cas and Vanirr.

On the surface, Vanirr is a paragon of the Order - tempered and calm, skilfully using words to negotiate and mediate, steeped in wisdom from endless hours in the Jedi archives, always seeking to help and to learn. He is a veritable beacon of the light side. While trained as a ‘Shadow’, when he moves unseen and undetected, it’s actually because he’s melded with the light - he can either radiate or become a part of the whole, depending on the situation.

Unfortunately, this is where the expression ‘blinded by the light’ becomes painfully apt. Vanirr develops a sort of unknowing arrogance, fuelled by both the Jedi’s affirmations of his virtues and his own successes through the class story, shielding and sanctifying those corrupted by the dark side. He comes to believe that this is his calling - to purge the darkness from whatever place or person he can. And if he has to kill someone to do it - well, all things have their time, don’t they? He’s just causing that time to arrive a little sooner.

His weakness is for knowledge, for relics and holocrons. In his blind devotion to the light, he believes that even the darkest of Sith secrets can find no hold on him, if he stands true to the Jedi ways. Ultimately, this is what does him in, and causes him to fall prey to Darth Syphon, Head of Ancient Knowledge on the Dark Council. Syphon lures him with the promise of such secrets, captures him, corrupts him, and the fabled Barsen’thor falls. Cas encounters him at some point thereafter, and there’s such irony there - that this Master of the light side should be so deeply tainted, should succumb to the dark, when the Knight who faced the Emperor himself, who still feels that shadow inside him, did not fall. I’m not sure yet what the outcome of that encounter is - if Cas kills Vanirr, or tries to save him and brings him back to the Jedi to see if they can help.

Buuuut that’s a ways off in my brain. Meanwhile, I’m trying to figure out Vanirr’s personal life. He’s told me that he ends up with two partners, in one sense or another - Nadia and Felix. It’s hard to define his relationship with Nadia - he’s her mentor of course, but there’s also a deeper bond that veers almost into romance, yet not quite. It’s not a sexual relationship at all, and barely even physical, aside from some fond kisses here and there. Felix, on the other hand, is a much more casual relationship, less attachment, more ‘comradery with a side of occasionally sleeping together’. I’ve actually never had a poly OC before, so this is interesting to mull over.

Anyway. That's what I've got for this lad right now!

[m4lfine]

all night i am tormented by visions of discourse from fictional worlds. jedi that becomes a knight and immediately puts padawans dni in their bio. vulcan callout post about how t’par doesnt adequately follow the teachings of surak. this comes naturally to me.

[guidefaithed]

@tapalslegacy

The Jedi temple was beautiful. The structure was harmonic in its design, with an even amount of pillars not only at the top, but also scattered within the spacious halls. It was plain to see that numerology had played a role in the construction and that the building had been optimized to induce a calmness that made striving for balance and meditation easier. While of course not Vulcan the architecture still ticked many boxes and T'Pring found it pleasing. "Thank you for giving me a tour, Master Kestis. I find the temple to be very stimulating."

Even the Jedi themselves were fascinating to watch. The Order was comprised of so many different species, and quite a few of them were entirely unknown to her just like T'Pring was the first Vulcan to walk these halls. She spotted two Jedi of differing species bowing at each other in greeting. A seamless and fluid motion, despite their differing physiology. "I can observe a deep unity despite biological differences."

[nazmazh]

Finally started watching The Acolyte this evening - First episode did a good job hooking me in.

Joking with my dad about how Carrie-Anne Moss was well-suited to play a Jedi due to her role in The Matrix - Familar with both sci-fi technobabble and wire-work fight scene choreography.

This led to a half-joke that at this point it does kind of feel it's sort of inevitable that *every* celebrity is going to make an appearance in the Star Wars universe.

Dad quipped - "Except Shatner"

Which, yeah, that's accurate.

And while I wouldn't necessarily want Shatner himself, given the turn towards being a real asshole these past few years (far beyond just the pompous egotist he kind of always was), I think honestly, in another world, it would actually kind of be a great bit to have a chair turn and reveal him as a Jedi Master.

And the thought occurs - Having any of the Star Trek cast members s appear as Jedi (or any other role) would be pretty great for a chuckle. Like, give Brent Spiner or Robert Picardo voice roles as droids. Marina Sirtis already knows the schtick for playing an empath, it'd translate completely well to being a Jedi.

Then, the thought occurred to me - Star Trek characters with their basic personalities, but in Star Wars (And I'm sure there's plenty of fanfic already written of this, out there).

Kirk as a hotshot young Jedi, on the frontlines with Anakin. Sisko and Janeway (I mean, assuming she's not a Sith...) running the strategy of The Clone Wars alongside Mace Windu, and proving absolutely ruthless in battle.

Archer doing his "Ah, Sucks" diplomatic routine alongside Obi-Wan, convincing the galaxy that the Jedi are toothless and will try to talk everyone into their way of seeing things, while Kira, Worf, and Seven are busy coordinating and organizing resistances alongside Saw Gererra, and Garak and Bashir work with Cassian Andor and/or The crew of The Ghost to steal all the Empire's secrets (I realize I'm heavily intermixing timelines here, I don't care).

Chewie and B'Elanna Torres either are best friends or bitter rivals.

Picard would rather be happily exploring and studying ancient Jedi ruins, but he keeps being called on by the council as one of their more effective generals. He's somehow found a way to avoid ever taking a Padawan.

Q and Yoda frequently debate all manner of things. It's often unclear how serious either of them is with *literally* anything they say. Mostly, it seems to be a game of who can frustrate the other most quickly/thoroughly. Nobody's quite sure how Q fits into things with the Force. He refuses to elaborate.

Quark is tending bar in Mos Eisley or somewhere similar. Or maybe still DS9/the equivalent of it - Which, either way, of course, ends up being in the outer rim near enough to Tatooine. He thinks he's a bigger deal in the Hutt syndicate than he actually is. He of course still is fundamentally not ruthless or craven enough to fully be an outright gangster/mobster. Nog bucks the trend of Ferengi generally not being Force Sensitive and is a Padawan (Perhaps to Obi-Wan).

[It still feels like a huge wasted opportunity that they never gave him another one on Clone Wars. Also makes the "a pupil of mine until he turned to evil" line in New Hope retroactively weird - "A" pupil, Obi? He was your *only* pupil!]

Anyway, like Toydarians, Ferengi are resistant to Force mind powers [I guess that's just something you get if you're a race of hyper-capitalists that have some unfortunate design implications?]. You would think they were likely to be members of the Trade Federation, and therefore part of the Confederacy - And many are - But, by and large, they're too individualistic to have their whole culture join any one side.

Vulcans, naturally, make for powerful Jedi - But, I'm sure to some people's surprise, so do Klingons. And their concern with honour means they have a shockingly low rate of turning to the Dark Side [Klingon Jedis are much more like Worf, having that formal, controlled environment they're raised in]. Of course, those without force powers get along swimmingly with Mandalorians. There's probably more than a few Klingon foundlings under those Mandalorian helmets.

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

hey man I saw your post abt being done with tumblr and im NOT here to persuade you to stay but to tell you that i have LOVED your posts and your commentary because your thoughts on star wars (and lotr and i believe star trek? i’m sorry if i got the wrong person but i believe it’s you who compares vulcans to jedi which is rly cool) and you should do what makes you happy! i’m sure there will always be someone you’ll make happy no matter what site you go to :)

also i really really hope this didn’t come off as patronizing. i just wanted to send my well wishes to you if it was my last chance

that's very sweet, not patronising at all! 💜 Yeah, the Vulcan post is me, I actually have a Star Trek side blog too (@vulcan-enthusiast)

I don't see myself deleting this blog anyway even if I stop being active (and I'm not quite yet at that point) so there's not really any deadline for reaching out