#vs catelyn who sees jon as a THREAT

[sleazyjanet]

but if i snap I'M in the wrong

[sowthetide]

GREETINGS AND SALUTATIONS this is teainabowl AND IM BACK WITH MORE NONSENSE AS PROMISED. family crisis almost averted?? i havent slept in 2 days but lmao who cares. (you cant see me rn but i want you to know that im doing a happy little jump skip dance as im writing this)

BECAUSE!!!!! ok. lets talk about genderbending in fandom. i think what usually gives me the ick in those fics is they do nature vs nurture wrong??? like a lot of the time they’ll just change the NATURE of the character and use the different gender as an excuse which. idk idk it runs me the wrong way. BUT QUENN!!! shes very much still theon?? just, nurtured differently. am i making sense? i have been traumatized by some bio-essentialism bs in the past when trying to look into similar fics bc i love gender fuckery PEOPLE JUST DONT GET IT LIKE I DO (or you, appearantly hkdhhfjh i love your story it means so much to me) 

and asoiaf is SUCH a gendered world??? like it has so much untapped potential where even a single characters gender can have SO MUCH IMPACT (can you imagine if joffrey had been a girl?? or if sansa had been a boy???) 

but what originally started my spiel was the realization that jon wouldnt have gone to the nights watch if he was a girl. and. what then?? slightly horrifying tbh, and makes me wonder if one of the other character had been male (read; they had been given more agency and autonomy in their lives) what would have changed???

but back to jon, bc then i immediately thought, ok, lets backtrack a bit, who would jon even BE. bc a lot of jons character revolves around his (lack of) a relationship with catelyn, his siblings mother. but she would have a harder time avoiding him if he was a she, right?? am i making sense???? a girl isnt seen like as much of a threat to her children i thinks?? idk i love cat and jon so much a love picking apart their relationship bc bc bc ARGHhhgg yk? also i like to think of ned being haunted by lyannas carbon copy who happens to be great with swords (would he be permitted to practice swordplay??) idk

ANYWAYS no we come to the part where i tie it up to what you mentioned in your answer. bc as much as JON being a girl might change his relationship with cat, it would be much more fucked up if it were robb, me thinks. (i too am a bit guilty of using robb as an accessory to cat) but but but. are. are you seeing my vision. catelyn stark with her three daughters when ned leaves for the greyjoy rebellion. catelyn whos convinced that the reason her husband wont send his bastard away is because she cant give him any sons. in the books she calls bran her special little boy and. idk the double meaning this would give it. and bran!!! being the heir!!! hiw would that change things??? would the reception to his accident be different?? and speaking of, what about king robert and his obsession with joining his family with neds? i havent talked about how robb (robyn?) would be different in this au but i cant think hed be as pleased as sansa was? his first shown interaction with joff is him trying to curb stomp the fucker lmao. i dont think he would be likely to have a different opinion bc of gender changes. in the books hes often rash and impulsive and prideful, and id want him to keep those traits, but peoples reactions to them would be different?? and so he would shape them in different ways??? am i making sense i feel like im just rambling. this is getting way too long and wayy to incoherent i need to stop. ok bye for now ill be back (threatening)

GO TO BED!!!! GET SOME SLEEP!!!!! But yay! to family crisis averted? Maybe?

Okay. I'm gonna indulge in some haterism for a second cause I've actually poked around the ASOIAF genderbending tag quite a bit. Unfortunately, a lot of those fics? Lame as hell. There's a preponderance of genderbent Jon Snow, which I think is totally cool! Very interesting genderbend to explore because of how much it changes the trajectory of his story. But then the character isn't really written as Jon at all? Maybe I'm just picky about characterization, but oftentimes fem!Jon just becomes this cookie-cutter "strong/feisty" female protag and it's like...

Sorry. I'm being mean. Obviously, there is no singular "correct" take on a given character, as we're all influenced by our own experiences and perceptions. My take on Theon isn't the exact same as yours, or goddcoward's, or Ashen's, or GRRM's. A unique Theon exists in all our heads, each one a bit different from the others.

But! Genderbends are so much more fun when you can see the underpinnings of the character you know, and there are moments where those aspects really shine through. And it's like OH!!! (pointing vigorously) THERE THEY ARE!!!! Otherwise, why not just write an OC, or adopt a minor character with very little canon characterization? (Admittedly, this can become a problem when you start collecting minor characters like Pokemon cards. I am my own evidence of this phenomenon.) If it ain't Jon, then why have it be Jon at all, y'know?

ngl female Joffrey has been rattling around in my brain lately... 👀fem!Joffrey would definitely be betrothed to Robb, which would be a complete and utter shitshow (appreciative/affectionate). Joffrey as a true mini-Cersei has such insane juice to it as a story idea, especially considering that Joffrey never liked Cersei all that much lol... the mother-daughter dynamic would be BONKERS.

Back to Jon though:

First, you're definitely right that fem!Jon wouldn't be seen as much of a threat to her siblings as Jon was. She would probably be married off pretty quickly once she came of age, as high as possible for a woman who was bastard-born. I don't see Catelyn liking her per se, but Catelyn wouldn't have the same misgivings about her as she did about Jon. Since fem!Jon probably wouldn't become the vessel of the wildling/Others plot, she might have an interesting role to play if she went south... to marry Robert's royal bastard Edric Storm, perhaps? I could see Robert "having his Lyanna" by marrying fem!Jon and Edric. But then shit hits the fan with the usual plot of AGOT, and maybe fem!Jon gets taken hostage by the Lannisters in King's Landing? Or gets caught in Renly's shit since she was with Edric at Storm's End? I am NAWTTTT talking myself into writing another fic. Go to hell. I need to finish Sow the Tide first.

fem!Robb (Robyn between myself and goddcoward) is even crazier. Catelyn would NOT be fucking happy to have Ned's spitting image hanging around Winterfell, while all her sons are under 10 and have the Tully look. I could see Catelyn successfully arguing that Jon should be fostered out, perhaps in the Vale (as a favor on the part of Jon Arryn)? Like, oh, Ned, you and Robert became such good friends fostering together in the Vale... that way, Jon is waythefuckoverthere and can't make any allies in the north.

I'd love for Robyn to have some of the same anger and pride, and she'd probably be similar to Catelyn in that she was raised as the heir for a good bit of time before the "real" heir came along years later (Bran+Edmure). Also, Catelyn would absolutely NOT trust Theon around Robyn. Not At All. Kinda fair though? Robyn would also be older than Sansa was in AGOT, so I think she'd be at least a little bit more worldly and pick up on Joffrey's... Joffreyness. Robb/Robyn are still dutiful characters, but I think there would be a lot more immediate friction between her and her betrothed. Double genderbend Throbb is my true love, however (Quobyn my beloved).

I've gotta finally go work on chapter 40 now, so I can't answer everything, but do come back... I'll be here... revolving all of these genderbends around in my head...

[ladyofasoiaf]

ADWD:  Daenerys vs Jon

In this meta, I will try to find the clues of Dance of Dragons 2.0 in Daenerys and Jon ADWD chapters. 

(I will be pointing out how these two are meant to be against each other) 

Mostly: I will examine the chapters that follow each other. 

Let’s start...

A) ADWD; Daenerys I & Jon I:

Daenerys I:

He lifted the sack, and spilled its contents on the marble. Bones they were, broken bones and blackened. The longer ones had been cracked open for their marrow. “It were the black one,” the man said, in a Ghiscari growl, “the winged shadow. He come down from the sky and … and …” No. Dany shivered. No, no, oh no. “Are you deaf, fool?” Reznak mo Reznak demanded of the man. “Did you not hear my pronouncement? See my factors on the morrow, and you shall be paid for your sheep.” “Reznak,” Ser Barristan said quietly, “hold your tongue and open your eyes. Those are no sheep bones.” No, Dany thought, those are the bones of a child.

[ADWD; Daenerys I]

Dany’s dragon Drogon burns a child

Let’s look Jon chapter that comes after this Dany chapter:

Jon I:

Burning dead children had ceased to trouble Jon Snow; live ones were another matter. Two kings to wake the dragon. The father first and then the son, so both die kings. The words had been murmured by one of the queen’s men as Maester Aemon had cleaned his wounds. Jon had tried to dismiss them as his fever talking. Aemon had demurred. “There is power in a king’s blood,” the old maester had warned, “and better men than Stannis have done worse things than this.” The king can be harsh and unforgiving, aye, but a babe still on the breast? Only a monster would give a living child to the flames.

[ADWD; Jon I]

GRRM knew exactly what he was doing by making this chapter follow the Dany one. 

Only monsters burn children= Dragons are monsters. 

Even Dany says so. And Dany calls herself a monster too in her second chapters:

Daenerys II:

Mother of dragons, Daenerys thought. Mother of monsters. What have I unleashed upon the world? A queen I am, but my throne is made of burned bones, and it rests on quicksand. Without dragons, how could she hope to hold Meereen, much less win back Westeros? I am the blood of the dragon, she thought. If they are monsters, so am I.

[ADWD; Daenerys II]

Monsters burn children= Dragons are monsters = Dany is a monster

This ADWD; Dany II chapter comes after ADWD; Jon III.

Let’s keep reading Jon I chapter:

Jon I:

Stannis read from the letter. “Bear Island knows no king but the King in the North, whose name is STARK. A girl of ten, you say, and she presumes to scold her lawful king.” 

[ADWD; Jon I]

Like Daenerys, Stannis also believes that he is the only lawful and true ruler, he sacrifices people to flames, he listens what flames tell him, he wants everyone to bend the knee to him.

Also let’s not forget about the Dragonstone and Azor Ahai parallels between Dany and Stannis. 

Just like Lyanna Mormont doesn’t bend the knee to Stannis; the other Northern lords won’t accept Daenerys either. 

Stannis sees Jon as his key to the North. But Jon made his choice and he chose family and honor over his own desire of becoming the Lord of Winterfell:

“By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa.”

[ADWD; Jon I]

Daenerys might also see Jon as her key to the North in the future books but Jon will always choose his honor as a Stark and his Stark family. 

Lonely and lovely and lethal, Jon Snow reflected, and I might have had her. Her, and Winterfell, and my lord father’s name. Instead he had chosen a black cloak and a wall of ice. Instead he had chosen honor. A bastard’s sort of honor.

[ADWD; Jon III]

This also comes before a Dany chapter:

[About Jon choosing Sansa and him becoming her hero, please check: Jon x Sansa Book Hints: C12, C13, E2 ]

B) ADWD; Daenerys III & Jon IV:

Daenerys III:

The next morning Xaro’s galleas was gone, but the “gift” that he had brought her remained behind in Slaver’s Bay. Long red streamers flew from the masts of the thirteen Qartheen galleys, writhing in the wind. And when Daenerys descended to hold court, a messenger from the ships awaited her. He spoke no word but laid at her feet a black satin pillow, upon which rested a single bloodstained glove. “What is this?” Skahaz demanded. “A bloody glove …” “… means war,” said the queen.

[ADWD; Daenerys III]

GLOVE IS OFF AND IT MEANS WAR!

Next chapter is Jon:

Jon IV:

As they did their count, Jon peeled the glove off his left hand and touched the nearest haunch of venison. He could feel his fingers sticking, and when he pulled them back he lost a bit of skin. His fingertips were numb. What did you expect? There’s a mountain of ice above your head, more tons than even Bowen Marsh could count. Even so, the room felt colder than it should. “It is worse than I feared, my lord,” Marsh announced when he was done. He sounded gloomier than Dolorous Edd. Jon had just been thinking that all the meat in the world surrounded them. You know nothing, Jon Snow. “How so? This seems a deal of food to me.”

[ADWD; Jon IV]

Jon takes his glove off and loses skin and maybe it gets even bloody?

In this chapter Jon is having problems with finding food and it is safe to assume that dragons are a threat to realm’s supplies. 

Jon thinks their best hope is untouched Eyrie- where his Tully cousin hides as a bastard: (source: Best Hope is in Eyrie) 

“If we had sufficient coin, we could buy food from the south and bring it in by ship,” the Lord Steward said. We could, thought Jon, if we had the gold, and someone willing to sell us food. Both of those were lacking. Our best hope may be the Eyrie. The Vale of Arryn was famously fertile and had gone untouched during the fighting. Jon wondered how Lady Catelyn’s sister would feel about feeding Ned Stark’s bastard. As a boy, he often felt as if the lady grudged him every bite.

[ADWD; Jon IV]

He once again chooses his Stark family in this chapter:

Which would you have as Lord of Winterfell, Snow? The smiler or the slayer?” Jon said, “Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa.”

[ADWD; Jon IV]

C) ADWD; Daenerys VII & Jon IX:

Daenerys VII:

This is Dany’s wedding chapter and she learns about her father’s jealousy about married cousins Tywin and Joanna and she also thinks about a love between a Targaryen prince and a Stark lady:

“I want to know. I never knew my father. I want to know everything about him. The good and … the rest.” “As you command.” The white knight chose his words with care. “Prince Aerys … as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the … the liberties your father took during the bedding.” His face reddened. “I have said too much, Your Grace. I—”

[...]

If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl, the girl in her insisted, but the queen knew that was folly.

[ADWD; Daenerys VII]

Tywin betrayed Aerys and Rhaegar’s love for Lyanna caused a big trouble for the realm... 

And we know that Daenerys is still waiting for a BETRAYAL FOR LOVE. 

The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath… three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…

[…]  

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness… mother of dragons, bride of fire…  

[ACOK; Daenerys IV]

And next chapter is Jon who is a secret Targaryen and the son of Prince Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark. 

So Jon comes after betrayer Tywin. (betrayal)

He is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.. (love)

Who is the cousin? 

Well A SISTER comes to him in this chapter: 

A grey girl on a dying horse. Melisandre’s fires had not lied, it would seem. 

[ADWD; Jon IX]

According to Melisandre’s vision this “grey girl” should have been Jon’s sister but Alys Karstark came to him. 

“I have seen your sister in my fires, fleeing from this marriage they have made for her. Coming here, to you. A girl in grey on a dying horse, I have seen it plain as day. It has not happened yet, but it will.”  

[ADWD; Jon VI]

But in truth Jon’s only sister Rhaenys is dead and the only sisters Jon knows are his COUSINS actually. 

Which cousin? The one that fits into the “grey girl” prophecy. Sansa Stark... Who is now facing a new marriage. 

According to fan made reading order for AFFC & ADWD: (source: AFFC&ADWD reading order)

ADWD; Jon IX chapter is following AFFC;  Alayne II chapter where she learns about Petyr’s plans of marrying her with Harry Hardyng. 

So according to same reading order, this Alayne chapter comes between this Daenerys chapter and Jon chapter. 

[About Jon and Sansa being Dany’s betrayal for love and doom please read: Jon x Sansa Book Hints: B4, D4, E6 ]

So the fake grey girl that comes after Dany chapter gives us the clues of Dany’s last betrayal for love by pointing out two cousins who are a Targaryen prince and a Stark lady. 

Let’s continue with ADWD; Jon IX: 

Queen Selyse descended upon Castle Black with her daughter and her daughter’s fool, her serving girls and lady companions, and a retinue of knights, sworn swords, and men-at-arms fifty strong. Queen’s men all, Jon Snow knew. They may attend Selyse, but it is Melisandre they serve.

[ADWD; Jon IX]

We know that Jon dislikes Queen Selyse and he knows that she is actually a puppet of Melisandre. 

In one of his ADWD chapters he describes Selyse like this:

A word from Melisandre, and she would walk into the fire willingly, embrace it like a lover.

[ADWD; Jon X]

This description reminds me Daenerys Targaryen. 

Who did walk into flames willingly and embrace it like a lover? Daenerys Targaryen: 

She had sensed the truth of it long ago, Dany thought as she took a step closer to the conflagration, but the brazier had not been hot enough. The flames writhed before her like the women who had danced at her wedding, whirling and singing and spinning their yellow and orange and crimson veils, fearsome to behold, yet lovely, so lovely, alive with heat. Dany opened her arms to them, her skin flushed and glowing. This is a wedding, too, she thought.

[…]

And now the flames reached her Drogo, and now they were all around him. [...] Part of her wanted to go to him as Ser Jorah had feared, to rush into the flames to beg for his forgiveness and take him inside her one last time, the fire melting the flesh from their bones until they were as one, forever.

[…]

A rising heat puffed at her face, soft and sudden as a lover’s breath…

[AGOT; Daenerys X]

The interesting thing is that a Daenerys chapter follows this Jon X chapter where he describes Selyse.

Let’s keep reading Jon IX: 

If he is not a kinslayer, he is the next best thing. Axell Florent’s brother had been burned by Melisandre, Maester Aemon had informed him, yet Ser Axell had done little and less to stop it. What sort of man can stand by idly and watch his own brother being burned alive?

[ADWD; Jon IX]

another Daenerys hint: Dany-Viserys or Jon killing his kin maybe?

“Salladhor Saan?” “The Lysene pirate? Some say he has returned to his old haunts, this is so. And Lord Redwyne’s war fleet creeps through the Broken Arm as well. On its way home, no doubt. But these men and their ships are well-known to us. No, these other sails … from farther east, perhaps … one hears queer talk of dragons.” “Would that we had one here. A dragon might warm things up a bit.” “My lord jests. You will forgive me if I do not laugh. We Braavosi are descended from those who fled Valyria and the wroth of its dragonlords. We do not jape of dragons.” No, I suppose not. “My apologies, Lord Tycho.”

[ADWD; Jon IX]

Jon is warned against dragons.

D) ADWD; Daenerys IX & Jon XI:

Daenerys IX 

Dizzy, Dany closed her eyes. When she opened them again, she glimpsed the Meereenese beneath her through a haze of tears and dust, pouring up the steps and out into the streets. The lash was still in her hand. She flicked it against Drogon’s neck and cried, “Higher!” Her other hand clutched at his scales, her fingers scrabbling for purchase. Drogon’s wide black wings beat the air. Dany could feel the heat of him between her thighs. Her heart felt as if it were about to burst. Yes, she thought, yes, now, now, do it, do it, take me, take me, FLY!

[ADWD; Daenerys IX]

Daenerys rides Drogon for the first time and this looks like an orgasmic experience but don’t let it fool you: people in Meereen are not happy because they are dying etc... 

Next chapter is realm’s shield Jon:

Jon XI

Jon clasped the offered hand. The words of his oath rang through his head. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. And for him a new refrain: I am the guard who opened the gates and let the foe march through. He would have given much and more to know that he was doing the right thing. But he had gone too far to turn back. “Done and done,” he said.

[ADWD; Jon XI]

He remembers his oath about protecting the realm.

He thinks Ghost (his Stark side) is the only protection he needs:

Ghost was the only protection Jon needed; the direwolf could sniff out foes, even those who hid their enmity behind smiles.

[ADWD; Jon XI]

Jon wants to scream that fire obsessed queen is not his queen. And he wants Selyse and Melisandre gone. 

[Stannis + Melisandre + Selyse = Daenerys]

Val’s playful smile died. “You have my word, Lord Snow. I will be a proper wildling princess for your queen.” She is not my queen, he might have said. If truth be told, the day of her departure cannot come too fast for me. And if the gods are good, she will take Melisandre with her.

[ADWD; Jon XI]

A northern princess doesn’t bend the knee to fire obsessed queen:

“The queen’s face hardened. “A grievous oversight.” What faint traces of warmth her voice had held vanished all at once. “Free folk do not kneel,” Val told her. “Then they must be knelt,” the queen declared.“Do that, Your Grace, and we will rise again at the first chance,” Val promised. “Rise with blades in hand.”

[ADWD; Jon XI]

Jon remembers his Night’s Watch oath AGAIN:

“I know what I swore.” Jon said the words. “I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. Were those the same words you said when you took your vows?”

[ADWD; Jon XI]

So as we can see Daenerys’ bonding with her dragon doesn’t seem like a good omen for Westeros. But at least we have our shield and warrior: Jon SNOW. 

We are done with the chapters that follow each other but I am going to look at Daenerys’ last POV in ADWD too:

BONUS: 

ADWD; Daenerys X:

A wolf howls when she thinks about her betrayals and it makes her sad and lonely but not less hungry:

Yet who else could it have been? Reznak, her perfumed seneschal? The Yunkai’i? The Sons of the Harpy? Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the grasslands, Dany slipped at last into a restless sleep.

[ADWD; Daenerys X]

Ants, which are coming from a WALL, bite Dany:

It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he’d built it himself.

[ADWD; Daenerys X]

Wolves and crows are not good signs for her:

My flesh will feed the wolves and carrion crows, she thought sadly, and worms will burrow through my womb. 

[ADWD; Daenerys X]

She embraces “Fire and Blood”:

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words. “Fire and Blood,” Daenerys told the swaying grass.

[ADWD; Daenerys X]

In conclusion: Daenerys will be dangerous for Westeros. It seems like Jon and Starks will be against Daenerys at some point and in the end Daenerys will meet her doom because of them.. 

Thanks for reading... 

[eschercaine]

My rant about Catelyn Stark (towards Jon Snow):

As we know at the beginning of ASOIAF books, Jon is introduced as Ned Stark’s bastard son and the same age as Ned’s true first born son, Robb. Catelyn resents Jon because he is the living, breathing proof of her husband’s infidelity. And perhaps, she also hates him because she could not give her husband a Stark-looking heir, and out of her five children, Arya is the only one who looks like her father.

“She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned’s sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow, that made it worse.” -- Catelyn II, AGoT

I think some people will say that she is not a cruel woman, and she let him live in Winterfell, blah blah blah. Remember, Catelyn tolerated his presence for Ned’s sake. (I really wonder what would happen if Jon stayed at Winterfell instead of going to the Wall.) When Ned decides to go to King’s Landing, Maester Luwin told the Ned and Catelyn that Jon wants to go to the Wall, and she informed them that she wouldn’t have Jon here (instead of having him as one of Robb’s trusted ally/bannerman in the upcoming war). This just means that with Ned going on the South, there would be no one else to object regarding of what she wants do regarding Jon. She wants Jon gone.

Jon (to Bran): “I’m going North to the Wall. Uncle Benjen is waiting. We have to leave today, before the snows come. Don’t die. We’re all waiting for you to wake up, me and Robb and the girls. Everyone…”

Catelyn: “He was my special boy. I wanted him to stay with me. I went to the sept and prayed seven times to the seven faces of god that Ned would leave him here with me. Sometimes, prayers are answered.”

Jon: “It wasn’t your fault.”

Catelyn: “Jon?”

Catelyn: “It should have been you.”

I don’t care if she said that out of grief for her son. Her, wishing Jon had fallen instead of Bran? that says “cruelty” to me. She cannot just hate a motherless child just for existing, or wished him to die. Even IF Jon is Ned’s son, the fault lies within Ned. Also, if she’s that kind, remember that she groomed her eldest daughter, Sansa into becoming Catelyn 2.0 (until reality gets Sansa b******-slapped in the face), while her youngest daughter, Arya, who is the exact opposite of her sister, had a closer kinship to Jon that made it easier for Jon to love her back.

Then… fast-forward to Robb before the “Red Wedding”. Robb wants to legitimize Jon because he needed a male heir to take over if he died. At this point, Robb had no sons, both of his trueborn brothers are believed to be dead, Arya was assumed to be dead, and Sansa was in the power of the Lannisters. If Robb died, the Lannisters would take control of the North in Sansa’s name and it’s likely that most of the Northern lords would oppose this, creating a war within the North, which is the last thing he needs.

Robb needed to have an heir, and Jon was the only immediate relative who he knew to be both alive and free. Jon wasn’t exactly free, because he swore an oath as a man of the Night’s Watch, but Robb was confident that he could make a deal with the Night’s Watch to get him released from his vows, and he has no other options.

Of course, there’s another reason to this. It’s pretty clear that Robb and Jon have genuine affection for one another. They see each other as brothers, even though Catelyn has always treated Jon more like a threat. The fact that Jon has never been treated as an equal seems harsh and unfair to Robb, and it is something he’d like to make it right. Robb trusts Jon to take over for him, should the worst happened.

Robb vs. Catelyn (Family vs. Power): Robb accepts Jon as family and Catelyn does not. From Robb’s prespective, he’s ensuring that his family remains the power in the North. From Catelyn’s prespective, he’s handing over his family’s power and holdings to an outsider.

Catelyn is one of my least favorite characters. She may not be a bad person as Cersei, Tywin, etc., but she’s a flawed one.

(IF... the speculations are true that Jon is really Rhaegar and Lyanna’s son, I wonder how Catelyn would react that Ned is really faithful to her all this time, and the bastard child she resents so much is actually her nephew?)

[yenslilac]

Femininity in Game of Thrones - Sansa, Margaery and Daenerys (feat. Arya)

In Game of Thrones Sansa, Margaery and Daenerys represent a different ideas of femininity, and they operate within these ideas, how the stereotypes of their roles influence their behaviour and storyline, and how they affect each other. 

[A Note: I talk a lot about the ‘ideal’ woman, or stereotypical feminine/masculine traits a lot. These don’t reflect my view, instead I tried to write this with Westerosi values in mind. Many of these points you might disagree with, that’s because they are valued by a fictional medieval society.] 

Sansa represents the idea of Traditional Femininity - the ‘ideal’ woman, who is generally passive, beautiful and sweet, with an affinity for domestic duties. 

Sansa likes sewing and dancing, and plays the high harp, and dreams of gallant knights. Both Arya and Catelyn Stark recognise she is very much suited to the life of a noble lady. 

“Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor.” 

- Catelyn VII, A Clash of Kings 

The qualities of Traditional Femininity are not always negative, but it cannot be ignored that it is this example that many women have been forced into or compared against in-world and in our own reality, and I’ll discuss this effect on Arya and Brienne later. 

But Sansa is praised by many for her lady-like qualities, and because of this for a lot of her life she has lived in a privileged and sheltered life. This makes it difficult for her during her time in King’s Landing as she finds it difficult to understand and adapt to her life as a hostage, because she was taught to obey her lord, who was Joffrey. 

Her passiveness shows within her storyline, as she never actively pursues a goal like Margaery or Daenerys. She is promised to Joffrey by her parents, her role in Joffrey’s death was unknown to her, and her escape from King’s Landing was in the hands of Dontos Hollard and Lord Baelish. She has two brief moments with Joffrey - one which she pleads for her father’s life, but this falls under ‘woman begs for a life to be saved’ and she relies on her sweet gentleness to sway Joffrey. The second is when she is brought to see the heads of her father and other members of the Stark household in King’s Landing. 

“Maybe my brother will give me your head.”

- Sansa VI, A Game of Thrones

Sansa shows that her passive gentle nature could evolve into a way that uses to advance herself. A way to use her power and influence to sway decisions and gain power by leaning into these qualities that she possesses and that people expect of her. An example of this could be Lady Macbeth, or on a more positive note, Margaery, who is up next. We actually see this again in more deliberate way, in the Vale. After Lysa’s death Sansa cries and absolves Petyr Baelish and herself of any guilt or responsibility. However, in Season 8, this is tried several more times, but ends up making her look catty and bitchy, because they did not lean into her strengths. In the end she is made Queen with the permission of brother, and we see no election creating her as Queen. As was at the start of the story, she returns to a passive role and lets others lift her up to new positions of power. 

Margaery represents what could be considered the Femme Fatale - she has control and ambition, particularly regarding her own body. She is willing to push the boundaries of acceptable society, but she is also aware of the expectations of women, and leans into them, just as Sansa began to do. She plays innocent and passive while also manipulating the likes of Joffrey and Tommen with her body language. 

Margaery learnt from the likes of her grandmother the power thet women have without being physically aggressive. This is important for Margaery as a noble lady, because she has to conform to society's expectations in order to succeed. She plays innocent and passive, conforming to the ideals of society. 

[If you’re really interested in how she manages to manipulate people I would really recommend watching this video from Charisma On Command, which explains how she is able to get Joffrey on her side as well as other characters.]

But Margaery is also willing to push against the restraints of this persona, baiting Cersei when she knows her own power will soon outstrip the others. She wears less modest clothing as opposed to the more reserved clothing of Cersei (highlighting her youth and beauty) and meets with the poor and orphans.

Like I mentioned before, Margaery uses her position and persuasion to influence decisions. She gets both Joffrey and Tommen alone and builds their trust of her, acting innocent and gentle for Joffery, making him feel dominant and powerful, and playful for Tommen, who, a younger boy was a little in awe of a beautiful woman. She submits to the High Sparrow, avoiding the Walk of Shame, and allowing her back into the Red Keep.

But this also leads to her downfall. Her constant pushing against Cersei and manipulation leads to Cersei correctly viewing her as an active threat. Cue the Sept of Baelor explosion. But does this mean that Margaery's ambition, manipulation and pushing against society's rules are a bad thing? Not at all. These actions allowed Margaery to pursue her goals on her own terms. It was Cersei's actions that put her in a position where she was stuck - and even then I have seen many criticisms of the whole Sept of Baelor, so this can maybe be put down to D&D wanting a quick way to kill her off.

Daenerys represents the Masculine Femininity - a combination of typical masculine and feminine traits. Daenerys dresses in typically feminine clothes - long dresses with intricate embroidery, and she has long braided hair. She does not make her more masculine, and falls into the bracket with Margaery and Sansa, as they are all very feminine characters. The difference between them and Daenerys, is that Dany has many more traits typically attributed to men - she is willing to take an aggressive approach herself, usually involving her dragons. She is also much more direct in her threats -

“We will lay waste to armies, and burn cities to the ground. Turn us away and we will burn you first.”

This is unlike the other two feminine women, Margaery and Sansa, who are not so aggressive, but this does not make this a bad thing. Daenerys benefits from her drive and ambition, and her direct attitude allows her to be taken more seriously when dealing with the slave masters in Essos. 

Daenerys does not uphold a persona, and lays out her cards on the table. People see her genuinely, and her compassion and sense of justice gains her friends as well as enemies. This clash of stereotypical male and female traits e.g. compassion vs. strict justice, gentleness vs. aggressiveness, creates her character, and often draws criticism from other characters. Like Sansa was considered foolish, Margaery provocative, Daenerys is persuaded to be more gentle and forgiving, which she ignores. She is told be less gentle and compassionate, when wanting to free the slaves of Yunkai, but ignores that as well. Just like Sansa and Margaery ,who began to learn to take other’s expectations as an advantage, Daenerys embraces both sides of her nature, understanding when to be merciful and when to be stern - Like a mother!

Considering that characters like Jon Snow are never criticised on screen for executing Janos Slynt, or Tyrion Lannister using wildfire on Stannis’ army, the fact that Daenerys faces negativity whenever she suggests aggressive action, such as executing one of her advisors after he killed an imprisoned Son of the Harpy, or flying to the Red Keep to confront Cersei (in Season 7, she never actually says she will burn it down), it could be concluded that Daenerys as a woman, is being unfairly leashed, while her male counterparts dole out dubious acts of justice without someone in the back saying “maybe instead, you could be nice to them!” 

Arya is probably one of the most central non-feminine characters in Game of Thrones. She rejects the traditional ideals of the gender -  Arya rejects the expectations placed upon her as a woman, and the restraints that come with it. 

 Arya in the show is a cold blooded killer, especially in the later seasons. She calmly slices a man’s throat, and bakes his sons into a pie. Arya in the books however is compassionate, protective, and is much more inclined to typically feminine things than in the show. In the show, Arya does show love and kindness, but to a lesser degree than in the books (which I think is a damn shame). 

Arya and Daenerys are characters who receive a lot of hatred and criticism. It could be called coincidence, but both the characters fall into categories OUTSIDE the ‘ideal woman’. Sansa and Margaery are compassionate and gentle and are (or believed to be) passive. Daenerys and Arya are also compassionate (depending on the media for Arya) and protective, but unlike Sansa and Margaery, they do not appear as passive to onlookers. They are direct and often aggressive in their approach to things, but also practice restraint and impulsivity in situations. 

Arya is most definitely disliked for the fact that she, a woman, dresses and carries out actions unlike what she is supposed to do. Sansa fed Ramsey to the dogs, and rightfully so, because he raped and abused her. Arya kills Meryn Trant and Walder Frey in brutal ways, but I have seen a lot of hate towards her that is generally not directed at Sansa. Perhaps it could pinned to the fact that Sansa herself did not directly kill Ramsey, and walked away as he died. Arya killed them herself, and watched as they died. 

Both women clearly took pleasure in the killing, so I think it would not be wrong that many people see Sansa’s action as triumphant, her smile a small crack in her ladylike demeanor, and then turn around and condemn Arya for doing the same, because she is less ladylike and more masculine. Sansa does not engage in the dirty work, Arya does. Sansa is a gentle lady exacting justice upon a cruel man, but looks away from the gore. Arya is a psychopath who gladly takes a hand in brutal murder. 

These situations are essentially the same, yet Arya is shamed and insulted by the audience for it. It is similar to Daenerys. Every harsh action - the execution of Mirri Maz Duur, Doreah and Xaro Xhoan Daxos, the slave masters, the Tarlys. All of them are analyzed and judged and she is hated for it. She is physically powerful (I say this because of her dragons) and ambitious, and like Arya, often has a hand in the execution of her enemies. 

Daenerys does not take pleasure in most of these scenarios, mainly because unlike Arya, the executions are usually not revenge motivated. Yet again, she is villified, almost for the opposite reason to Arya. She dresses feminine yet acts in ways often interpreted as masculine. Many might argue that this is not the sole reason for the hatred directed towards, and I agree, but I definitely think that it plays a strong part, especially as other male characters, and Sansa do not have essays painting them as villains and specifically using the executions they carry out. 

I also want to address the claim that many Sansa stans have, which is the reason I felt prompted to make this in the first place. Many of Sansa’s fans feel that she is hated because she is feminine, unlike other characters, which I felt is wrong, and I think I’ve provided enough evidence for that. It cannot be denied that the specific type of femininity that Sansa exhibits has been used against women in her own universe and ours. If you are not modest, you’re a slut, women should be quiet and gentle, they should be homemakers. These ideas are old but they still are quite common in many aspects of society today, which is also why I made this post, because it seems that this could one of the reasons that Arya and Dany are disliked so much. I also wanted to show that Margaery, while different, definitely fits into Sansa’s femininity, and I see hardly any hate posts about her. 

So, to conclude, Sansa, the Traditional Femininity earned her praise and allowed her to rise up the ranks, but also left her passive and naive, when she was younger, because of the shelter her privilege gave her (the privilege I refer to is the respect and admiration of her friends and older women in her life, something Arya did not have due to her lack of talent/interest in feminine duties). Margaery used Traditional Femininity as a cover which allowed her to orchestrate her own ambition and desires, while subtly manipulating those around her. Daenerys used strength to intimidate her enemies and generosity to gain her friends, but these qualities drew a lot of criticism to her character. Arya is similar - she faces criticism for not being ‘a real woman’ (which I have seen people say). None of these characters are at fault for how they are written and the consequences that result from their characterisation, but it is us, as an audience, to recognise these differences between characters especially in regard to how we view women, and how they influence our view of the characters. 

[kallypsowrites]

I know we talk a lot about stuff the show screwed up from the book and like, I get it, stuff was bound to get lost in translation in any adaptation. But I wanna talk about a few of my favorite show-only scenes:

1. Cersei and Robert’s conversation in season 1

In this scene we have two non POV characters discussing the state of the kingdom and their marriage. We never get a perspective from Robert in the books and nothing from Cersei until book four. At this point in the books, Cersei is a pretty unsympathetic character. We know her relationship with Robert is pretty bad, of course, but it’s filtered through Ned’s perspective.

Here, Cersei and Robert have a rare moment of truce and we get some of the best dialogue in the series. They’re not fighting. They are...resigned. Cersei puts away her hatred of the Starks to admit that Ned is a good choice for hand and she recognizes that Robert shouldn’t have dismissed him. She asks about Lyanna, something she has avoided for a very long time out of spite, because “what harm can her ghost do to us?” Robert admits that he doesn’t even remember what she looks like, which reveals that his “love” for her was probably just infatuation.

And then my favorite set of lines--

Cersei: Was there ever a chance for us, ever a moment?

Robert: No...does that make you feel better or worse?

Cersei: It doesn’t make me feel anything.

Here, two broken people confront the mess of their lives and wonder if they ever had a chance to have something good. But they didn’t, because Robert has always been his stubborn, prideful self and Cersei is just as proud and stubborn. And Cersei is resigned to it. If it made her feel something once, now that feeling is numbed.

When I first saw this scene, a scene between two characters I didn’t particularly like, I was struck by the humanness of it. Humanness we did not get at this point in the books. And it informed how I saw her afterwards. For every terrible thing she did, I wanted to know more about her.

2. Tywin and Jaime

Our first introduction to Tywin in the books is Tyrion. Understandably, Tyrion and Tywin have a complicated relationship and Tywin is always much more of a dick whenever Tyrion is around. In the show on the other hand? We first see Tywin interacting with Jaime.

Now, don’t get me wrong, Tywin is still an asshole in this scene too. It is an inherent part of his character. But it is one of the most powerful character introductions for him, and one of the first humanizing moments for Jaime.

Tywin is skinning a stag in some wonderful foreshadowing of Robert’s death in that same episode. When Jaime tries his usual quips, which we have seen work well on others, Tywin shuts him down because he sees through them. Jaime is weaker here in the presence of his father because even if he can appear unbothered to the rest of the world. And we see how many expectations Tywin puts on Jaime which he does not want, because he is supposed to be the “golden son”.

More than anything, this is Tywin’s grand entrance. For all of the damage we’ve seen in the three Lannister kids, this is the motherfucker they got it from. So many of these kids insecurities and faults trace back to Tywin being a shit dad with the emotional availability of rock. You see this scene and you’re like...ah...yep...this makes sense. And of course, we see how differently Tywin treats Jaime (someone he has high expectations for) vs how he treats Tyrion (someone he has no expectations for).

3. Robert, Barristan and Jaime

I’m sorry but there’s more than one Jaime scene on this list. Obviously like him. But his season one scenes are great on rewatch partially because of what we learn about him in season three.

So in this scene, Jaime, Barristan and Robert tell war stories, mostly on the drunken king’s request. We see that Jaime is not at all fond of Robert but also some of his admiration for Barristan Selmy as he compliments his battle techniques. He starts to let down his walls a bit during this conversation because its talking about what he’s good at: fighting.

Then Robert asks about his killing the mad king and Jaime’s wall shoots right back up.

Robert: What did the mad king say when you stabbed him in the back?

Jaime: He said the same thing he’d been saying for hours...burn them all.

We don’t know the context of this last line but when you rewatch the scene you can see what Jaime is thinking. That he killed the Mad King and saved king’s Landing, but he has only ever been scorned for it. He’s very bitter. And his bitterness shows in the next scene (which I promise is the last Jaime scene)

4. Jaime and Jory

Jaime has a brief conversation with Jory, who tries to deliever one of Ned’s messages to Robert while he’s whoring. We see how Robert makes Jaime mind the door while he’s insulting Cersei with as many women as possible. But despite the Stark and Lannister animosity, Jory tries to make conversation about when they met during the Greyjoy rebellion. Jaime’s wall starts to drop again because talking about fighting is the one thing that makes him comfortable (which is why losing his hand so shatters his identity later). It seems the two men have come to some sort of understanding.

Then Jory brings up Ned and back comes the bitterness! Jaime resents Ned so much for judging him on that day for killing the Mad King and that bitterness all comes to a head later during the street fight. Again, we don’t know why he’s so bitter yet, but it all comes across so well in this scene.

5. Sansa and Shae

Sansa and Shae have many scenes together  and I really like their friendship. The show goes a long way to develop Shae more than George ever did (only to kill her in the same way but...we can’t all get what we want). Her more genuine relationship with Tyrion is okay, but it sours for me with the season four result. But it’s her genuine friendship with Sansa that I love. 

Shae becomes protective. She gives her advice. At first Sansa snaps at her because she doesn’t trust her and she is still traumatized but eventually the two become very close. I like so many of their conversations, especially in season two and three. And Shae never blames Sansa for any part of her marriage with Tyrion which thank CHRIST for that.

6. Arya and Tywin

Anyone who has talked to me for two seconds knows how obsessed I am with these scenes. Because they are...basically the only humanizing scenes that Tywin gets at all. The very smallest bit of vulnerability. I think it really shows how much of a people person Arya is, sort of without even trying. And she really holds her own with one of the most powerful men in Westeros. She’s smart and capable and she manages to slip under Tywin’s nose even though he could have used her as a valuable hostage if he figured her out. He was starting to catch onto her toward the end, but fortunately did not. Good scenes. Love them. Very good.

7. Catelyn and Tailisa

In season three, Catleyn tells Tailisa about the time she made a wreath for Jon Snow. Now I’m a very team Catelyn sort of person. I don’t think she abused Jon so much as she just ignored him. But I think this scene is very telling. Because despite Jon not being her son and also being a potential threat to her own son as bastards often were, despite Ned’s betrayal still being fresh, Catelyn fought to keep this child alive. She prayed for him and he lived. And yes, she didn’t treat him as a son afterwards because it was still a very complicated situation. But I think this goes a long way to show that Catelyn is not the evil, Jon abusing woman that a lot of people paint her as.

8. Ramsay’s new introduction

Ramsay has a great intro in the books, but his intro in the show genuinely caught me by surprise. He seems to be completely helpful to Theon and listens to him talk about his regret. He kills the people who are after him and he seems very genuine. But then, it’s all a ruse. This scene so perfectly illustrates how Ramsay uses mind games to toy with people. I thought the number of torture scenes in season three was excessive, but this one I thought was a GREAT intro to Ramsay.

9. Arya and Lady Craine

A lot of Arya’s Bravos stuff in the show is very meh. But I love her stuff with Lady Craine because it shows that Arya is not the ‘emotionless killing machine’ that the show sometimes tries to portray her as. Arya does not kill Lady Craine because she can see that she is innocent and she does not want to kill people who haven’t earned it. Later on, her kindness drives Lady Craine to help her and they share a scene in the woman’s house. It’s really sweet and it’s nice to see Arya smile again. Beneath it all, she’s still a child and a traumatized one a that. One who lost her mother and father in a brutal way. And lady Craine gives her just a bit of maternal energy again, before dying horribly because Arya’s life is a nightmare. Still, liked this character.

10. Varys and Littlefinger sass offs

Gotta love some Varys and Littlefinger and I do love how they dance around each other all throughout seasons 1-3. They’re the kind of enemies who respect each other but still want to see the other choke. And it also because clear that while one of them is a more neutral figure who doesn’t covet the throne, the other is driving toward it with his ladder of chaos. We got a great sense of both of them in these scenes and it was great.

Look, the show has some messy parts and even some straight up bad ones (thanks Dorne arc). But it also did a lot right and even some show original scenes are worth quite a lot in my mind.

[chid-sen-gan-blog]

My Thoughts on GoT 8.01 (“Winterfell”)

So, this is late, but I watched S8, E1 (”Winterfell”) with my Dad and Brother and had some thoughts (these thoughts are from my first time viewing it, but I was too insecure to post them until a magnificent mutual of mine suggested it).

Spoilers, but the warning might be irrelevant by now. Featuring running commentary from my family because they’re amazing.

So, maybe I’m alone, but I’m not that fond of the new opening. Sorry, it just looks cheaper to me than the old one somehow, even though I read somewhere that more money was spent on it

That child climbing a tree gave my entire family and I some serious Bran/Arya nostalgia, as did that Baratheon theme

Arya’s little smile when she saw Jon half filled me with joy, and also half broke my heart. So much has happened since they last saw eachother. So fricking much

Arya looking at the Hound in a parallel to S1, E1 has been found

Non-verbal Gendrya is life

Oh, yay, an obligatory manhood joke to start off the season. Ugh. You know, I’m really tired of them at this point.

So......... can somebody remind me why Tyrion is even here anymore? And how he became the least interesting remaining Lannister by far?

Missandei and Grey Worm’s little “wow, they hate us” look is honestly the best thing. To quote my Brother: “Finally, two people that can take a hint”

Dany is upset at people not kissing her boots - shocker. Look, sweetie, it’s been a rough couple of years for the Northerners. Not to mention the last time they had a Targ in power he burned their liege lord and had his heir strangled. And that Targ was your father. So no duh they’re skeptical 

Yeeeeeeaaaaah... I don’t think giving a good portion of the people you’ve supposedly come to “save” heart attacks with your WMD children is the best way to establish you’re a “great” ruler

SHE SMIRKED THAT LITTLE --!!! 

(And the camera lingered on said smirk, hmmm, wonder why...)

Just a little over ten minutes into the episode and I’ve already reached new levels of Dany hatred

Entrance to the Winterfell courtyard parallel to S1, E1 spotted 

Jon riding in and seeing Bran is making me cry. Like, the last time he was riding towards a family member was with Rickon, the only “sibling” (aside from Sansa) he thought he had left - only for Rickon to die moments before he reached him. And here’s Bran, his “brother” who he thought was dead up until recently, sitting there alive and (mostly) well, and I just... *sobs uncontrollably*

Compare and contrast how happy Jon is to see Bran vs. how “who cares?” he was when finding out he was alive in S7 and tell me that political!Jon isn’t real. Tell me

... I thought we were supposed to get non-robo-Bran this season, but, so far, I don’t see it

My Dad is honestly cheering because Bran’s looking at Dany all creepily. He’s just thrilled someone’s giving her some variation of the stink-eye

That Jon and Sansa hug is not the same one that was released, and I’m a little disappointed. Let Jon give bear hugs to his entire family 2k19

Sansa/Ned parallels from S1, E1 and I’m loving it

Dany is literally the embodiment of all her stans who thought she and Sansa would be besties and braid eachother’s hair. Sansa is the rest of us who knew better

Bran cutting straight to the point adds years to my life

Sansa running things is my aesthetic

Dany seriously didn’t sit down till Ned Umber called her “my queen” and I’m rolling my eyes. So what if I’m too critical? I’m bitter

I love Jon getting called out if political!Jon isn’t real, but I’m honestly tired of Lyanna Mormont at this point. Sorry, unpopular opinion

......................... is it just me, or has Tyrion become a lot less smart in recent seasons? 

Wait until they find out who burnt the loot train * snicker snicker*

Sansa asks practical questions. Dany replies with an answer that basically gives the green light for eating innocent civilians. But, sure, Sansa’s a jerk

My Dad doesn’t even like Sansa and he’s scoffing that Dany couldn’t hold a candle to her when it comes to ruling

Yep, Tyrion’s become a lot less smart. I was right

Bran being creepy is actually great when it’s directed towards Dany and her team 

Awwwwwww... Jon and Arya. Don’t screw this up for me, please...

Parellel to Ned/Catelyn in the Godswood in S1, E1, I believe

Seriously, Jon is ecstatic to see his little “sister”. Don’t tell me he would’ve reacted with nonchalance to the news of her being alive if political!Jon isn’t true. Don’t even dare

Am I the only one who’s a little heartbroken that Jon is actually surprised that Arya still had Needle?

So....... I think that “Sansa thinks she’s smarter then everyone” comment was supposed to be an awkward joke. So therefore, I’m not going to get angry

STARK SISTERS AS A UNITED FRONT! YES!!! NED, YOU WOULD BE SO PROUD!!!

Yeah, Jon, don’t forget. I believe in you

I imagine everyone’s probably going to be really angry with Jon, but I kind of feel badly for him. He seems so insecure about everything in this episode. If the parentage reveal happens here, too, I’m a little worried how he’ll take it

My Brother pointed out that Jon’s homecoming in this episode kind of mirrors Jaime’s in S4 and I’m honestly living for it

I missed Cersei. I really did

I missed Yara, I really did

I didn’t miss Euron, not a bit

Wow, the Red Keep feels so lonely and I think that’s the vibe the showrunners were going for. Kudos if it was

Cersei seriously has some of the best lines and Lena Headey is brilliant in her delivery

Euron... yeah. Dude needs help

Oh, so that’s what happened to Ed Sheeran and co. Time to get started on my “I See Fire” tribute

Little parallel to Tyrion in the brothel with Bronn from S1, E1

“Which girl?” Poor Bronn in a world without modern medicine

Um, excuse me, but if you even think of using that crossbow I’ll make sure that Ser Bronn of the Blackwater becomes black and blue

Someone get Cersei her elephants

Okay, so what’s up with the pregnancy? Was it a hoax, or something else...?

THEON!!! Finally stepping up! Finally!

So... anyone else thinking that Yara believes Dany sent Theon to rescue her and that’s why she’s still loyal to this dragon brat?

Tyrion is on and I’m ignoring him.

Davos nooooooooooooo. No marriages!!!

I see you, Varys. I see you showrunners. Nothing lasts, indeed... *laughs evilly*

Aw, what happened to Dany and Sansa braiding eachother’s hair again?

I’m angry at Jon for not defending Sansa. Really. But how much could he actually have done without spelling potential doom for the North? Littlefinger didn’t have dragons. Dany does.

OKAY, NO. THAT WAS A THREAT. A FRICKIN’ THREAT. AND MY FAMILY AND I ARE NOT OKAY WITH IT!!!!!!!!!

........... the dragons are barely eating? Barely? And just how many Northerners could those 29 goats and sheep have fed?

“Um, Dany, giving Jon a dragon might be the dumbest thing you’ve done yet” - My Wonderful Dad

“And that’s saying something” - My Wonderful Brother

Wow, Dany doesn’t give two cents about Jon’s consent. Shocking

Wow, Dany doesn’t give two cents about Rhaegal’s consent. Actually shocking 

So... if no one knows how to ride a dragon until they do and you’ve already ridden one so therefore know, give the guy some pointers

Haha you might die. Isn’t that adorable?! *sarcasm sarcasm*

POINTLESS SCENE ENSUES

That boy kept his eyes open, honey. That’s not a good thing.

Drogon and Bran should have a staring contest. My money’s on Bran

(scratch that, my money’s on Jaime and Brienne whenever they see eachother)

Ugh. How many manhood jokes are we going to have before this season’s over?!?!

So... the Hound and Arya’s reunion was kind of underwhelming, imo

Gendrya awwwwww.

Ooh, new weapon. Wonder what it does.

“You don’t know any other rich girls” - Arya // “And with you around he never will.” - My Wonderful Dad 

Interesting point my Brother made about Lord Glover always being that guy never wanting to join the fight

Oh, Jon. If political!Jon is true, then stop handling this all on your own. Heck, even if it’s not. Your family is strong as steel. Trust them

Not sure if it’s intentional, but this scene kind of brings to mind shades of Ned and Catelyn in S1, E1 when discussing Ned becoming Hand of the King

Sansa is not helping those vibes. Oh, boy

“Why does everyone who claims Dany will be a good queen sound less like they believe it and more like they’re trying to convince themselves it’s true?” - My Wonderful Brother

SAM!!! MY DEAR CINNAMON ROLL!!! I’VE MISSED YOU SO MUCH!!!

Oh, shoot. Is this the Tarly reveal? I don’t think an “it was necessary” is going to work this time...

WOW. She didn’t even try to explain her actions. This somehow makes it far worse for me...

Jorah looking guiltier is actually unsettling

You made Sam cry, Dany. The gloves are off. You’re officially irredeemable in my books

Um, has no one wheeled Bran in yet? Like, he’s just been sitting there?

“Waiting for an old friend”? Is it Jaime? It’s got to be Jaime. Wonder if they’ll save the reunion for the end because more parallels

PARENTAGE REVEAL!!! PARENTAGE REVEAL!!!!!!!!

Jon looks so tired all the time in this episode, even with his family. Even if political!Jon isn’t real, Dany certainly isn’t doing him any wonders. And if you say she is, you’re not really watching the show

Awwww, Jon and Sam together again! And Jon is just as happy to see him as his “siblings”! My heart...

“So, are we ever going to find out if Little Sam’s alright, or...?” - My Wonderful Dad

Jon’s reaction to the burning of Sam’s dad and brother is kind of weak, but I”m hoping we get some more of his wrath directed at the source of this fiasco (Dany)

No, Jon. You and Dany aren’t alike in any way. Case and point - how you’ve been talking about how titles don’t matter every two seconds of this episode, while she was about to threaten your “sister” for not “respecting” her. See the difference, sweetie?   

PREACH, SAM! PREACH!!!

Um... it probably would’ve been better to lead with Ned’s wasn’t your father than Lyanna’s your mom, but other than that, you’re doing great, Sam

A man from the south tells his northern best friend with a man-bun some game-changing news in a crypt. Sam-Jon, Robert-Ned parallel from S1, E1 achieved

I’m going to take  a moment to appreciate how Kit subtly incorporated and conveyed each of the five stages of grief in this scene

“It’s treason”/”It’s the truth”. I mean, maybe it’s just me, but Jon seems almost terrified to hear this news. Which tells me he’s well-aware of how Dany could react to it. Which tells me he’s not as daft as he’s letting on. 

“You gave up your crown to save your people. Would she do the same?” Sam knows what’s up and I love him all the more for it

“No, no she wouldn’t” - My Wonderful Dad, Brother, and Less-Wonderful I all at the same time in response to Sam’s query

The score in the back, “Winter is Here”, when “Truth” might’ve been a more ironic, dramatic option - like with the last reveal. Hmmm. I see you, Ramin Djawadi. I see you

Edd! Beric! Tormund! Still stand by the idea that at least one of you should’ve died for emotional weight, but I’m glad to see you.

Okay. The blue eyes joke got a chuckle out of me, I admit

Child nailed at their torso thanks to white walkers parallel to S1, E1 achieved

Ned Umber opening his eyes seriously made me jump and I was expecting it

Child who is actually is a white walker nailed at their torso by white walkers parallel to S1, E1 achieved

And now I’m deaf. Thanks, Ned Umber

“Hey, don’t you think that creepy art piece kind of resembles the Targ sigil?” - My Wonderful Brother before the piece was set on fire

“Hey, now it really does.” - My Wonderful Brother after the piece was set one fire 

A rider riding into town and I think I know who it is...

JAIME!!!!!!! *has meltdown because he’s my second favorite character, okay?*

My Wonderful Dad and Brother are just as hyped as I am. Bless them.

Jaime taking off headwear and looking around Winterfell parallel to S1, E1 spotted

Is it just me, or does he actually look happy to be there? I mean, you’d think he’d be more uncertain...

Oh, there’s the uncertainty

Jaime and Bran ending off the episode on a cliffhanger parallel to S1, E1 unlocked

[lady-griffin]

Argubably this long rant doesn’t matter since Petyr is dead in the show, but I couldn’t help myself, since I’ve seen people say that Baelish would never be outsmarted and die like that…so here you go.

It is basically accepted as canon that Petyr Baelish is one of the smartest characters in the story and is some Machiavellian-type genius --- manipulating everyone to his whim.

But is he?

Don’t get me wrong, Baelish is certainly intelligent and definitely very clever. And he benefits a lot from the fact that no one ever really thinks he is a real threat, or at least that’s the case in the books. In the show, he’s more seen as a necessary evil by the characters who work with him. They don’t trust him, but they need him for their own agenda.

And Baelish uses people not seeing him as a threat or seeing him as a means to an end to his advantage. But is he some great puppet master, pulling every single string?

Not really.

The idea that Baelish is some kind of absolute mastermind who planned for everyting to work out to his benefit is fueled by several factors –

1. That is a very common assumption of intelligence and is very common trope in media, particulary with political-type or scheming characters. Intelligence is easier to show or prove when it is revealed that said character had everything planned form the start (no matter how implausible that is).

1.A I see this a lot with chess being used as a shorthand to show a character’s intelligence. The intelligent character could’ve won the game at any time and when they suddenly have to leave, they quickly finish the game in one move (to the surprise of their opponent).

2. And in the books, Baelish’s actions and overall scheming have only benefited him, the backlash hasn’t caught up to him…yet

Looking at Baelish and a lot of his actions (both in the show and books), he’s kind of throwing himself everywhere and essentially working with whatever is thrown at him.

The best example is Joffrey sending the Catspaw to kill Bran (because of what he heard from Robert) and Littlefinger takes advantage of Catelyn’s belief that it was Tyrion/Jaime/Cersei (or at least one of them) that sent the assassin, based on whatever Bran saw. And because of that opportunity Baelish is able to further cement the Stark vs. Lannister conflict, which he started by having Lysa send that letter to Catelyn.

Littlefinger himself didn’t plan for Jaime to push Bran out the window or for Joffrey to send an assassin to “impress his father” (Joffrey’s own plan is insane), but boy did he ever take advantage of those extra factors.

And that’s smart, there’s no denying that, but eventually Petyr’s own self is going to catch up with his ambition.

What I mean is that Petyr is fueled by spite and hatred. He wants to stick it to all the nobles in Westeros whoever looked down at him. And every time he gets away with something, he gets bolder and more reckless. The best example of that is Littlefinger kissing Sansa right outside Lysa’s window.

Petyr has a need (that’s growing) to not only be the smartest man in the room, but to have everyone know it.

Basically, Petyr is a very flawed man, who isn’t as smart as a lot of fans see him as or more accurately, doesn’t have everything planned from the beginning and is basically one slip away from it all crumbling around him.  

And there are certain lines that indicate all of this to us.

“[Petyr] was always clever, even as a boy, but it is one thing to be clever and another to be wise.” (AGOT, Catelyn IV)

I really think this gives us the first clear image of who Petyr is as a person – the outline of his character and overall his limitations. Someone who is clever, but as we quickly see, hasn’t become any wiser in his years.  

“In King’s Landing, there are two sorts of people. The players and the pieces.”

“And I was a piece?” She dreaded the answer.

“Yes, but don’t let that trouble you. You’re still half a child. Every man’s a piece to start with, and every maid as well. Even some who think they are players.” He ate another seed. “Cersei, for one. She thinks herself sly, but in truth she is utterly predictable. Her strength rests on her beauty, birth, and riches. Only the first of those is truly her own, and it will soon desert her. I pity her then. She wants power, but has no notion what to do with it when she gets it. (ASOS, Sansa VI)

This is Sansa’s introduction to the official “game” and the “rules.” But we should take this overall idea not as an objective fact of how the world is, but how Petyr (and others) see the world. It’s not necessarily inaccurate, but definitely a limited scope of how things work.

And Petyr’s criticism of Cersei, also shows how blind he is of his own limitations. And honestly, having Petyr think he himself is this great player, only for him to be nothing more than a piece, is very ASOIAF.

Petyr wants power, but like Book!Cersei, has no idea of what to do with it once he has it. Petyr’s all about scheming and getting himself higher and higher, but what would he do once he got to the highest point.

He’s great at creating chaos and benefiting from it, but that can only benefit him for “a limited time.” Particularly since his goal is to eventually be in charge and rule – creating chaos and conflict, isn’t going to help him with that.

Now as he’s the Regent Ruler of the Vale, the cracks are beginning to show in his way of thinking and how he operates (as he also seems to be drinking more and is getting more bold (super creepy and gross) with Sansa – which is not great for his own plans, since he’s pretending to be her dad)

“Everyone wants something, Alayne. And when you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him." (ASOS, Sansa VI)

This is how Littlefinger views the world and people, but it’s also a key to how Sansa should start viewing Littlefinger. 

What does he want? Who is he really? How can she move him?

And while I think Sansa should be considering those three things, this idea certainly has holes on it.

Littlefinger is use to operating on tangible wants and desires, a woman (or man) for the night, money, a drink, and so on. And even other less than tangible desires like status or justice, we have seen Petyr dangle those wants in front of people’s faces and take advantage.

But as we have seen with ASOIAF, people are more than a bit complex and have conflicting desires within themselves.

For instance, Jon wanted nothing more than to be Lord of Winterfell, to have a wife and a son of his own. To do his father proud and yet when that was offered to him by Stannis he refused.

Though that might actually be to Petyr’s point. Stannis didn’t know what Jon truly wanted and therefore doesn’t really know who Jon is, and thus can’t move Jon to his own whim. Which I might break down further (at another point).

But back to Petyr.

How is he trying to move Sansa?

He offered Sansa the chance to go home, but that was a lie and Littlefinger has no plans to bring Sansa back home. 

It honestly seems like Littlefinger thinks Sansa’s desire to return home is a temporary desire. And to some extent is working with what he presumes is Sansa’s true desire, which was her old desire, to be queen and have her romantic dreams come true.

Petyr, because of his own desires, is not fully aware of Sansa’s true desires, which means according to his own theory, he doesn’t know who she truly is and will have more difficulty controlling her.

“Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean.” (ASoS, Sansa VI)

There are many flaws in this ideology. 

For one thing - to accomplish anything, especially lasting change or permanent status (the power and respect Petyr wants) you have to get yourself dirty.

I don’t mean doing horrible things and playing dirty. I just mean you actually have to do something. You can’t just sit behind-the-scenes trying to accomplish what you want, you actually have to do it. You need to take an actual risk and put yourself in harms way.

Also, Petyr’s hands are so dirty at this point (in regards to doing crimes).

To name two of his recent best hits…

He killed Lysa and there were two witnesses to his crime.

He has Sansa Stark – who is wanted for regicide (because of Baelish). If Sansa gets found out before Petyr’s “grand plan” can unfold, he’s fucked.

And –

Several people are looking for Sansa Stark (and have an idea who Alayne is)

Several people don’t want Petyr Baelish to be Lord Regent/Lord of the Vale

And some just don’t want Alayne Stone around or don’t want her to marry Harry.

And that’s just naming three separate aspects of essentially one-single problem. There’s more that can affect the Vale and Petyr’s plans.

Two major ones being the Others and Daenerys and her dragons.

But also, the growing restlessness of Westeros (and the Vale), Winter is coming (not the monsters, but like just food shortage) and then there’s the Mountain Clans and there are just so many potentially pitfalls with his plan.

Petyr, to me, is not really a major player. He certainly has had a lot of influence and has cast a large shadow over this world…but,

As Petyr himself explained, every piece has their own agency and desires and certainly can do a lot of damage, but that doesn’t mean they themselves are important in the grand scheme of things. 

And Petyr isn’t a major character himself (in the literal story) as he’s a part of Sansa’s story.

I just find it really interesting (not surprising though) that he’s been built up in the fandom as this absolute Machiavellian genius who’s 20 steps ahead of everyone, when honestly it seems like he’s juggling several knives and each time he doesn’t get cut, he adds another knife.

And his time (in the books) might be coming to an end sooner than we think.

[wargwhatisitgoodfor]

GRRM’s Much Ado about Mirrors - An Introduction

NOTE: The following is entirely speculation. Also in the latter portion of this meta, I will be introducing the possibility that a specific character has been tortured and sexually assaulted since season seven.  

Within a story’s framework, mirrors can draw connections amongst characters and events and can convey conscious/subconscious thoughts, truth vs lies, etc.  In a reference to the practice of hydromancy, The Lord of the Rings contains a basin of water, Galadriel’s mirror, that provides visions of the past, present, and possible future. Inspired by Tolkien’s device, GRRM uses mirrors not only in an allegorical manner in his series A Song of Ice and Fire (e.g. Sansa Stark as the positive mirror image to Cersei Lannister) but also to consistently foreshadow major events with water as well as to allude to previous scenes that haven’t yet been revealed to the reader (this will later compare to Melisandre’s pyromancy).

Of particular note, both Arya Stark’s confrontation with Joffrey Lannister alongside the waters of the Trident and Dæny’s clash with her brother Viserys in the midst of the ��Dothraki Sea” serve to FORESHADOW THE CLIMAX OF THE ENTIRE SERIES.

GRRM successfully misdirects his readers and builds suspense though by also utilizing inversions, parallels, and consistently and purposefully leaving out scenes. Just as GRRM emulates and references multiple primary sources in his narrative, the show writers have looked at the most successful adaptations of the material that inspired him in their creation of the television show.  In fact, this upcoming season will be tying together narrative threads in a major plot point that was seemingly inspired by Peter Jackson’s adaptation of LoTR.

Examining GRRM’s narrative techniques within the text itself and to his literary/historical sources reveals a great deal about Game of Thrones Season Eight, such as “The Kidnapping Plot”, “The Parentage Reveal”, “Will Dæny get her house with the red door?”

MIRRORS:

1. In the Series - Lady Crane is to Bianca as Sansa is to Cersei… AKA “THE KIDNAPPING PLOT”: 

Jaquen H’ghar assigning Arya to rewatch her father’s death is certainly a reference to Hamlet testing Claudius; however it is also a mirror of the threats that Sansa and the Stark siblings/cousins will face in season eight. On stage, Bianca’s feelings and murderous plans for Lady Crane foreshadow Cersei’s targeting of Sansa. When the action moves back-stage as the actors remove costumes and wigs in front of mirrors, most of the doubles change but Lady Crane remains the stand-in for Sansa (e.g. the other actors’ comments that the crowd loves Lady Crane references book!Sansa’s pledge in A Clash of Kings: “... IF I AM EVER A QUEEN, I WILL MAKE THEM LOVE ME”). 

The writers make this point irrefutable when they both acknowledge the criticism levied against them (Lady Crane: “The writing’s no good”) at the same time as they foreshadow how they plan on elevating the series from everything else that has come before it with Arya’s response: “(this story) would all just be (more of the same) without (Sansa the subversive heroine).”

Just as the threats to Lady Crane shifts, Sansa/the Starks will be targeted by a different force mid-way through the season when ALL of the Stark siblings/cousins will be involved in a violent stand-off, which will center on the FATE OF THE NEXT GENERATION OF STARKS.

2. To a Primary Source - Howland Reed and Petyr Baelish are the reconstruction/deconstruction of a trope and historical character: 

Yes, just as Petyr Baelish has been ushered out of the action, the show will finally deliver Howland Reed!  

Early on in season eight, Jon Snow will meet Howland Reed after trouble has ensued in the North.

(Leo Woodruff was cast as Howland as he had been on set for several years and wouldn’t attract any attention with his presence on set.) The show, as well as the book series, has quietly but consistently foreshadowed the ironic “event” in which Howland will enter the present narrative beginning with several comments from Robert Baratheon in season one and continuing on through Jaime and Cersei’s last argument in season seven. In fact just as some fans have noted that “The Spoils of War” mirrors “Hardhome”, Howland’s arrival should flip another notable scene (and reference an important moment in Westerosi history).

Given the nature and atmosphere of his appearance, Howland will not only privately discuss Jon’s parentage (the show’s opportunity to do a weirwood tree vision/flashback of the Tournament of Harrenhal) but will also reveal Ned Stark’s contingency plans

(the means by which this story will starts to conclude its theme of the futility of war… for more details, see the section on parallels between Ned and Doran Martell). NOTE: This meta on Howland Reed and Petyr Baelish will be part one in this series. 

INVERSION:

1. In Show/Series - Jon Snow and Jaime Lannister:

There are many metas on the connections between the two; however I haven’t seen one yet explore the respective secrets that both characters have NEVER disclosed to anyone; it is those secrets that have largely dictated their individual characters arcs and are the main reason the show has the two having a conversation with each other in season one.  To be sure, Cersei’s line about Jaime being the “stupidest Lannister” in the last episode of season seven will in retrospect be ironic. These narrative threads should be exposed with all the action and fallout surrounding “SANSA’S GIFTS” early on in season eight. 

2. To a Source - Dæny and her character’s main inspiration:

Dæny was not only partially inspired by a Shakespearean MALE CHARACTER (there are very few, if any, one-to-one correlations) but her narrative will ultimately contain elements from one of the most well-known and subversive adaptations of that particular character. Coincidentally, as Dæny is the inverse of the main male character, Jon Snow is the positive mirror of one of the main supporting characters in the same play. GRRM’s purposeful lack of additional POVs in Essos can make it difficult to recognize that her narrative arc not only takes her full-circle but has her regress; however it should be irrefutable upon her final conflict, which has her face the same question as many of her predecessors: “What do you do with the children of those who threaten your power?”

 Dæny’s clash with the Starks over this question is the MOST VISUALLY REFERENCED SCENE in the whole tv series. 

(THE COLOR OF THE EGG IS IMPORTANT.)

PARALLELS:

1. In the Show/Series - The Plans of Ned Stark and Those of Doran Martell:

Due to the trauma that they both experienced during Robert’s Rebellion and their steadfast love for their sisters, both Ned Stark and Doran Martell worked steadily and inconspicuously towards shoring up separate plans for their respective families.  Besides recruiting their younger brothers’ help and their focus on strengthening political alliances in their respective regions,

THE CORE OF EACH OF THEIR PLANS RESTS ON A SECRET MARRIAGE BETROTHAL. 

Unfortunately, their differences (Ned is for protection/reactionary and Doran is about vengeance/aggression) may lead to entirely different ends for their houses (I’m still holding out hope regarding Sarella’s future collaborative efforts with Samwell Tarly and Marwyn and her eventual governance of Dorne).  Ned’s contingency plans should not only hint at an ironic ending but at the theme of the futility of war.

2. To a Source - Varys and his character’s inspiration:

Despite the substantial differences between show!Varys’s plot and his counterpart in the book series, his ties to his character’s main inspiration remain intact - his secret identity and his visits to political prisoners.  These core characteristics will lead him to be an active participant in his death, similar to his narrative source; in an ironic twist, Varys will end up aligning with the Starks and will save the life of one of their most important allies with the help of Melisandre. Varys is another testament to GRRM’s belief that anyone can make the choice to be heroic.  

MISSING SCENES -

GRRM intentionally leaves out critical scenes throughout his series as it enables him to surprise his reader. Because it would be too obvious to leave out the most important scenes, GRRM does it in MANY instances. “Why don’t we have more insight on Sansa’s female relationships?” “Why don’t we have a chapter with Catelyn saying goodbye to all of her children?”  “Why don’t we have a Dothraki POV?”  The writers for the show have successfully used this device since season one. It isn’t until season seven though that the show makes it evident that some of the most important scenes are not always shown to the audience.

It may seem like the writers are cheating the audience with leaving out scenes, but they have always provided us with ALTERNATE VERSIONS OF WHAT IS MISSING.

1. In Show/Series - Ramsey is to Theon as Yara is to Euron:

Once Yara is taken captive and paraded through King’s Landing, the audience doesn’t get to view another scene with her nor learn second-hand what is happening to her. Theon does express two beliefs about his sister’s fate: 1.) Yara is still alive, and 2.) Euron is holding her captive rather than Cersei. However, Euron’s comment to Yara in season seven about the King’s Landing crowd (“... THIS IS MAKING ME HARD”) along with book!Aeron’s terrifying memories of Euron visiting his bedroom at night (”No mortal man could frighten him, no more than the darkness could... nor memories, the honest of the soul. The sound of a door opening, the scream of a rusted iron hings. Euron has come again.” A Feast for Crows, “The Prophet”) indicate that

Euron not only commits gratuitous violence against his ship’s captives but that he enjoys sexually assaulting his family members.  

Is that enough foreshadowing for the tv show’s general audience? Perhaps it isn’t, which may be part of the reason why the show writers decided to repeatedly show graphic scenes of Ramsey torturing Theon... those scenes also serve as a stand-in to what Euron is doing to Yara.  

What would be the purpose of delaying this revelation about Yara? The most obvious answer lies in a conversation that Theon has with Ramsey about his father during season three: “Those men, they said that my father knew what they were doing to me.” As the audience knows, Balon Greyjoy does learn what is happening to his son and still refuses to him him. 

If Ramsey and Theon are a stand-in for Euron and Yara, then the audience can extrapolate that THEON IS AWARE OF WHAT EURON DOES TO FEMALE CAPTIVES (EVEN THOSE RELATED TO HIM) AND EXPLAINS TO DAENY WHAT YARA IS EXPERIENCING. We also know from the Dragon pit meeting that Dæny does not ask for Yara to be returned. 

This possible narrative may lead the audience to unexpected topics: Will an abortion be part of the plot in season eight of Game of Thrones? If Yara has been the subject of Euron’s heinous, violent acts, what does this mean for the other familial pairing - Jon and Dæny? Jon’s arrival at Dragonstone and his departure for Winterfell does roughly correspond to the same time frame as Euron taking Yara hostage and Theon heading off to rescue her.

Thus, are Jon and Dæny a MIRROR of Yara and Euron, or are they the INVERSE of one another? Was Jon summoned to Dæny‘s room? Or did he come of his accord? Is the show exploring the topic of “submission vs consent” with two of its most popular characters?

2. To a Source - “Sansa’s Gifts” and Peter Jackson’s The  Lord of the Rings Trilogy:

Similar to Dæny and Cersei respectively in seasons five and seven, Sansa will receive “gifts” from someone who is trying to convince her of his/her loyalty towards the end of episode one or towards the beginning of episode two. Not only will this complete the “rule of three” for all of the queens in the last season, but this plot point was inspired by a narrative device that Peter Jackson created in adapting The Lord of the Rings.

To maintain the surprise of this plot twist, the show left out TWO CRITICAL SCENES that happened early on in the series.  Just as Theon and Ramsey are a stand-in for Yara/Euron, there are two scenes that serve as a double for the ones that the audience will never see; however those scenes have been alluded to, and the audience has witnessed evidence that they occurred. 

This show’s writers have been planning this since the beginning, and “Sansa’s gifts” actually fits ALL of the narrative devices mentioned in this meta: 

Mirror (In Show AND Source Material)

Inversion (In Show AND Source Material) 

Parallel (In Show AND Source Material)

It also INSPIRED ALL OF THE “GIFTS” THAT WERE CREATED SPECIFICALLY FOR THE SHOW, including the thimble Sam gave Gilly, Ellyria sending Myrcella’s necklace to Cersei, Davos giving his carvings to Shireen, Littlefinger bringing a falcon to Robyn Arryn, etc.

Truly, the narrative impact that this will have on the outcome of the entire series cannot be overstated. Just as Ned’s death overturned the audience’s expectations as it also impacted the trajectory of the entire narrative, so will “Sansa’s gifts”. 

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Hi Butterfly! I find the following in F&B rather curious "Ser Tyler Hill, Lord Lyman's comely bastard son, was openly scornful of Androw, even whilst doing all he could to ingratiate himself to Rhaena herself, regaling her with tales of his exploits at the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye and showing her the scars..." (p.166) How can a bastard dare to do this (Jocasta =/= Cat?)? How can he have such access to her? Does he think he has an actual shot with her? Wuld love to have your thoughts. Thanks.

Tyler Hill was evidently a recognized bastard, possibly raised in his father’s house, Casterly Rock. While this is not usually typical in (non-Dornish) Westeros, it does happen now and again – see for example Daemon Blackfyre or Ramsay Bolton or Aurane Waters – often to bad results, as Catelyn feared regarding Jon. (See the Blackfyre Rebellions; Ramsay poisoning the trueborn brother who brought him to the Dreadfort; Aurane leaving the Velaryons for Joffrey, and eventually betraying Cersei too.) Whether Tyler’s presence bothered his father’s wife Lady Jocasta, it isn’t mentioned, but note that GRRM describes her as “formidable” and she was from the powerful Westerlands House Tarbeck. That’s a distinct difference from Catelyn’s fears about her outsider Riverlander status and her non-Stark-looking children (as well as Daemon vs Daeron’s Dornish-blooded heirs). So, we can assume Jocasta was confident enough about her own heirs and supporters, and therefore didn’t consider Tyler much of a threat.

Whether Tyler Hill really thought he had a chance with Rhaena… well, please note that Tyler seems to have been used as Lyman Lannister’s deniable asset, like Ramsay was for Roose Bolton.

From Lannisport came five hundred men under the banner of a bastard son of Lyman Lannister, Ser Tyler Hill, by which ploy the cunning Lord of Casterly Rock lent supporters to the young prince whilst still keeping his own hands clean, should Maegor prevail. –Fire & Blood

That gives him a certain amount of status, in addition to being a recognized bastard. Also, though the Battle Beneath the Gods Eye was a terrible failure, Tyler was still a knight and a war hero, who gained his wounds in service of Rhaena’s late husband Prince Aegon.

Secondly, Tyler almost certainly thought Rhaena was damaged goods – excommunicated by the Faith for her abomination of a marriage to her brother (said dead prince husband who never accomplished anything much), forcefully married to the monster King Maegor the Cruel (and she didn’t even do the “queenly duty” of conceiving), ignored as a heir when her baby brother Jaehaerys came to the throne, her daughters taken away from her to KL and Oldtown, no supporters, few friends, thrown off of Fair Isle by her allies, apparently left to rot in the west by her family – and thought that maybe she could be in reach of a noble bastard, at least one with his status.

Thirdly, note that Androw Farman was a schlub (no skills, no education, no martial training), who most likely Rhaena just married so he could beard for her and his sister Elissa. If Tyler’s gaydar was not especially good (and I bet it was worse than most Westerosi), he probably thought Rhaena only married Androw to avoid being remarried by the crown, but that she’d be hot to trot with him. You can see Tyler now, right? Handsome, blond, jut-jawed, not too bright… like a cross between Jaime Lannister and Gaston… god, GRRM even gave him a jock name like Tyler for a reason…

So he’s all like, “hey, baby… um, my queen… let me tell you about the battle again, yeah? I was killing one of Maegor’s–” *spit* “–big knights when I got this scar, see, it goes around my arm like this, but I’ve healed fine–” *flex* “–hey, wanna check out the Hall of Heroes? The Golden Gallery? Don’t worry, there’s lots of places in the Rock where we can get a little privacy…” “I’m sorry, ser, Elissa and I are going flying on Dreamfyre now.” “But…” “Goodbye, Tyler.”

Lord, Rhaena probably didn’t even notice him – Tyler’s a mosquito compared to the horrors of Maegor the dragon – but it’s no wonder, in addition to Lyman and Jocasta’s constant pressuring requests for a dragon egg, that Rhaena and her friends got the hell out of Casterly Rock as soon as possible.

[questingquill]

AGoT Analysis: Catelyn I

In this series, I will discuss the emerging themes of each chapter of A Game of Thrones, and study how Martin develops the complex plot structure across multiple POVs.

Spoilers for AGoT ahead.

Summary: Catelyn goes to the Godswood, where Ned is contemplating the life he has just taken, to inform Ned that she has received word from King Robert of two things: Jon Arryn’s passing, and the king’s impending journey to Winterfell. 

Analysis

This chapter sets up the Lannister-Stark-Baratheon-Arryn conflict by giving us teasing pieces of the history of their conflict. We also get further characterization of the Starks, and of Ned and Catelyn’s relationship. 

North vs. South

The chapter begins with a description of the Faith of the Seven and, consequently, a description of why Catelyn doesn’t quite fit in with the North. 

For her sake, Ned had built a small sept where she might sing to the seven faces of god, but the blood of the First Men still flowed through the veins of the Starks and his gods were the old ones, the nameless, faceless gods of the greenwood they shared with the vanished children of the forest.

Catelyn I, A Game of Thrones

Martin goes to great lengths to distinguish the hard, stubborn, and old ways of the north vs. the more flowery, pretty, and modern southron ways. We’ll later see how he associates the south with artifice and the north with grim honesty. 

Everyone Plays the Game

Even though we have clear distinctions between northern and southron ways, we also see this theme, which was first brought up in the prologue, developed further here. Martin uses the description of the godswood to describe Ned as a hard, honest man, who belongs in the north and who has always been in the north. 

And yet! We also learn that Ned was fostered in the Eyrie with Robert Baratheon, under Jon Arryn, which shows that a lot of this inherent “northernness” is perception and part of how Ned presents himself. This Stark-Lannister-Baratheon-Arryn conflict now shows it has roots in Ned and Robert’s childhood. We see here that the Starks, Baratheons, and Arryns had some sort of alliance that was, at the latest, formed during Ned’s childhood--likely an agreement between Ned’s father and Jon Arryn--that extended to include the Lannisters, once Robert took King’s Landing and married Cersei. Yet we also learn that the Lannisters were “late to the party” in joining the rebellion, so this alliance is fragmented and complicated. It seems that in spite of their differences, the Stark/Baratheon and Stark/Arryn bonds are unbreakable, but we’ll see how easily those bonds can be broken down. 

Anyway, my point here is that Ned plays the game too, whether he wills it or not. 

Compromising Cultures

We learn that she and Ned, though they accommodate each other’s faith, don’t really get each other on this front. It’s an interesting example of compromise in their marriage, which we will continue to see developed. 

Ill Omens

Interesting that Catelyn is afraid of what is beyond the wall (the Others) but Ned doesn’t put much stock in it. She also is more suspicious based on the “omen” of the Direwolf killed by a broken antler in the snow. 

Plot Structure

If you don’t let yourself forget the omen encountered in Bran I--the direwolf killed by an antler in the snow--then this chapter, and Ned’s positive reaction to Robert venturing north, begins to build up a lot of dread for the reader. Martin foreshadows Ned’s death again, while also laying the foundation for a few different plotlines:

1) Jon Arryn’s assassination. Who killed him? We don’t feel suspicious of it yet but we’re given enough of a taste of the complicated nature of the Lannister-Stark-Baratheon-Arryn alliance so that we won’t be totally blindsided by it later. 

2) Mance Rayder, King-Beyond-the-Wall. Apparently, Mance is a big enough threat that Ned is considering calling his banners, which seems outside the purview of his duty as Warden of the North, given that that is NW territory. 

3) The failing institution of the Night’s Watch. We also learn that the NW is declining--they have less than a thousand men--which will set up a lot of Jon’s plot, later. 

4) Howland Reed’s ties to the Starks. Martin mentions that the only southron godswood is on the Isle of Faces, which shows an inherent tie to the Starks, and therefore why Bran can trust them. 

Character Arcs

Ned

A lot of pagespace has been dedicated, thus far, to characterizing Ned via descriptions of the north. He is honest, he does not embellish, he has no fondness for the flowery ways of the south. And yet he was fostered in the south. We also see him contemplating the execution of the man of the NW in a religious space, showing he is spiritual. 

His excitement about Robert’s impending arrival and his dismissal of Catelyn’s superstitions shows us that he takes things at face value and tends to not read into actions or see things in layers, which will bite him in the ass later. 

Oh, and we also learn that he does not like the queen’s brothers. 

Catelyn

We learn more about Ned and other characters here than we do about Catelyn herself. We learn that Catelyn keeps the new gods, that she doesn’t understand the northerners, and that she is more likely to interpret omens and question things than her husband is. 

Lingering Questions

There are a couple of mentions of the children of the forest and a lot of description of the godswoods and where the remaining godswoods are. This will come into play in Bran’s plot, but I wonder if there’s more to this. Remains to be seen! 

[janiedean]

From the Cat post: #(and at least she let him grow up there) She actually didn't "let" him. She tried to have him sent away multiple times and Ned refused. She also refused to allow Jon to stay in Winterfell after Ned went south, as Ned had argued that Jon, at 14, was too young to join the Watch. I like Catelyn a lot and I think she's a great character but there's little, if anything, redeeming in how she treated Jon. (Other than she didn't have him murdered like Cersei, I suppose.)

uuuhm well

I... don’t remember it being book canon though? I mean, that she insisted to have him leave for the watch. like, she didn’t disagree obviously because it was about the solution to all her problems, but unless I’m wholly wrong she hadn’t said he couldn’t stay after ned left, and it wasn’t her idea, it was jon’s - like, I’m sure that his decision also had to do with not feeling like staying in WF with just her and not ned, but I don’t remember her refusing to have him there post-14 in book canon, maybe it was the show but who even remembers;

even if it was the case... the point is that cat’s treatment of jon is in fandom judged not as fairly as anyone else’s;

I mean, rewind: for our standards cat’s treatment of jon is abysmal, but for their standards, the facts that a) she didn’t press hard enough to have him leave - she could have regardless of how much ned refused, b) he was raised alongside the other children and had an education which is not a given, c) she didn’t turn all of her other kids against him (I mean, sansa and jon don’t have much of a rship because sansa was close to her mother but jon’s arya’s favorite sibling, bran keeps on wondering if there’s a way he can legitimize him, robb made him his heir and I doubt rickon hated him - like, all his siblings except one love him and given how she felt about him that’s not little) mean that while technically she has done exactly nothing, she still didn’t cause half the damage she could have and he ended up in a better situation than anyone with a bastard name in the series that wasn’t born in dorne (but dorne is different so it doesn’t count). like, she could have disagreed with having him educated with the others, she could have kept him and robb/arya/bran/rickon separated, she could have argued harder for it and she could have him murdered, but she did exactly nothing and she doesn’t like him because he’s technically a threat to her legitimate children which in the middle ages is... not an unreasonable fear to have since on a noble level everything works on who inherits what and who marries whom and so on;

so like, no one says that her treatment of jon has to be redeemed or anything because it’s bad for our standards and that’s it, but the thing is that her treatment of jon wasn’t worse than the standard bastard children got and arguably the fact that she eventually didn’t push to have him sent away or anything puts him objectively at a better starting point than anyone else who wasn’t recognized/never had an education/works as a servant in their father’s household and so on, so like... okay, it’s not ideal but the point isn’t whether she treated him badly or not, but...

that everyone thinks she’s The Literal Worst In Westeros for how she treats him and how everyone is at her throat for Every Single Possible Slight When It Comes To Mothering Children when everyone else doesn’t get judged that harshly for the same reasons;

meaning, as we said: half of this fandom is genuinely convinced that cersei’s only redeeming trait is her love for her children (... at most she loves joffrey and she sees them as extensions of her self but okay) and when she has all of robert’s bastards killed and aborted the child she would have had with robert (nothing against abortion but for the sake of this argument...) but apparently her motherhood is one of the few **positive** things she has going for her (????) never mind that she abused tyrion from the moment he was born never mind her treatment of sansa but like no one seems to think that means she deserved to have her throat cut, while catelyn resents jon for parentage reasons and hasn’t been a parental figure to *him* which is a character fault but she didn’t try to have him murdered nor anything cersei would have done but that is the reason why people cheer when they slit her throat?? (or again, the fact that ‘omg she’s such a bad mother because she stays with robb and doesn’t go back to WF with the youngest kids because apparently that is what being a good mother means idek) like, no other person with children who mistreats them, either theirs or other people’s, is judged as harshly as cat is over her treatment of jon which, again, is not worse than the westeros standards and arguably ended with jon coming up in a better position at fourteen than 99,9% of the resident bastards in westeros who don’t live in dorne;

like, obviously it’s because jon’s the protagonist and we feel from his pov but honestly, he has less resentment for her than 99% of the people who think she deserved to die because she didn’t love him.

again: I’m not saying her treatment of jon was good or that I want to find redeeming qualities in it because from our system of values it’s not and there’s not much redeeming to be had in it, I’m saying that in comparison to the average it wasn’t worse than the usual actually all the contrary, and that saying she’s The Worst Person In Westeros based on a character flaw that is shitty but isn’t even close to The Worst (ie: having kids murdered), especially when other people who in comparison to her behave way less ethically for everyone’s standards get judged nowhere near as harshly as she is just based on that specific character flaw. like, no one wants to redeem that treatment, but that cat is top five most hated characters only based on how she treats jon vs every other shitty thing people did in these series is hardly judging with the same standard. /two cents

(disclaimer: I’m saying this as someone who has cat and jon at pretty much the same place in the top ten like I like both characters and I absolutely don’t hate him all the contrary, and no one disagrees on the fact that cat caused him to have Issues, the problem is how that specific flaw is judged by everyone in comparison to how everyone else is.)

[smantisen]

This reply again confirms that many comment on this chapter having failed to read it. For one, Robb wasn't yet a King when he arrived at the Twins (after all, one of the main objectives at this point was to save his father). His status - heir to a Great Hourse - was equal to that of Edmure.

As for whether the deal was bad, one would need to consider whether a  better deal could be reached. I’ve yet to see a convincing argument for this that actually takes into account the circumstances under which the deal was negotiated. Usually many, if not most of the difficulties facing Robb Stark are simply ignored. Your initial post was not an exception - I’ve think it’s clear when looking at the text of the chapter that appealing to Walder Frey’s obligations as a vassal or threatening him would go nowhere. For example Robb’s threat to the Greatjon worked because it goaded him into attacking. Had Robb tried to do the same at the Twins, Walder Frey would have laughed at him and thrown him out (if he was lucky - he might have thrown him into the dungeons and sold him to the Lannisters)..

Regarding Jon, I’m not pushing down his skills. I agree that he’s a great negotiator. But if you want to compare him with another character, one has to take the different circumstances into account. Otherwise one gets into apples vs oranges situation. The two specific agreements we discussed were under such different conditions and had such different outcomes for the two sides that it would require a very detailed analysis to decide who was better and there is not enough information for that anyway. 

And also let me remind you that your post started with pushing down Catelyn’s skills down to make Jon look better. Far worse than anything I’ve done, since you outright call her a terrible negotiator.

And I’ve should been clearer, but the comment about Arya wasn’t entirely serious. Though the considerations about circumstances do apply here as well.

I have no objection to being called out about wrong things I’ve said, but I haven’t come even close to calling Jon dumb here.

To compare Jon's political cunning and negotiation through which he tricked Mance, played Stannis and negotiated with the Iron Bank to give loan to an organization that is by all accounts considered as a wasteland with Catelyn Stark. Catelyn, who gave the King in the North's hand to a Frey Girl and in turn got a betrothal of 22nd son of Walder Frey of House Frey (WHO BY THE WAY IS A VASSAL TO HOUSE TULLY) for her daughter while negotiating for a bridge.

Jon and Catelyn are both aware of the power they possess. Jon knows how to use it and Catelyn fucks up, gives away the King's Hand and her Daughter's to a man who by all means should have been shown the consequences of not obeying his Leige Lord's command. Robb does that to Great Jon when he refuses to obey him.

And of course since you like to blame wars on one or two people, don't forget, she started the War of the Five Kings, when she kidnapped the son of Tywin Lannister.

These are the same people who say Jon is the Tullyest of the Stark kids.

Keep this shit out of the Jon Snow Tag.

[him-e]

Sansa and Ned, kingmakers

x, x

It’s been often discussed how Sansa and Ned share some character traits and how their storylines have common points (Littlefinger being a mutual false ally, the Vale, etc). But with season 6, everything clicked into place, at least for me. I know many viewers were frustrated that Jon was made king instead of Sansa, and while I think it would have worked MUCH better if the writers had kept Robb’s will in the story, I would make the opposite argument—that it was a good writing decision, as it highlights Sansa’s political trajectory as a mirror to Ned’s. Because, like Ned before her, it isn’t in Sansa’s cards (at least at this stage) to be a queen, but to ride at a king’s side, and be, at least in part, the architect of his success. (warning: spoilers for season 7)

(pictured: Ned and Sansa smiling affectionately at their bffs)

to begin with, there are a few narrative parallels between Robert’s rebellion and Jon&Sansa’s /Reconquest of Winterfell/.

both are a reaction to a violent, sadistic tyrant;

both were sparked by an explicit threat to the rebels’ right to exist: Aerys wanted Ned and Robert’s heads, Ramsay more or less threatened to rape, torture and kill everyone with the Pink Letter;

both are in response/connected to unforgivable crimes committed against the blood of Winterfell (Rickon is Brandon, the trueborn heir horribly executed, but he’s also Lyanna, the captive Stark, the other catalyst of the war, dying tragically in front of her brother who came to her too late);

both wars end with a bittersweet victory, tainted by the burial of (a) beloved sibling(s);

the prelude to both is a… complicated journey back to Winterfell that begins in the Vale. In Sansa’s case, it happens long before the wheels of the war are set in motion; in a sense it is what sets those wheels in motion (although I’m talking specifically about her arc in the show, I’m moderately confident that she will make that journey in the books too, and it might be an even closer parallel to Ned if she, as it’s often speculated, travels by boat from the Vale to White Harbor) 

Sansa’s saving the day with the knights of the Vale is reminiscent of the battle of the bells, where Ned came to Stoney Sept with a Stark/Tully/Arryn army (!!!) in time to save the wounded Robert and turn the tables against the royalists;

finally, both wars bookend the secret of Jon’s parentage: the end of Robert’s rebellion marked the beginning of Ned’s lie about Jon, the conclusion of the battle for Winterfell, with Jon being crowned king at Sansa’s side, heralds the end of the secret and the unveiling of the truth—clearly for the audience, and soon for the characters as well.

Father and daughter, in different times and circumstances, make the history of the seven kingdoms through a war that sees them as co-leaders and that ends with the extinction of an entire house and the rise of a new king. 

it’s interesting how Sansa’s position in the war mirrors and contrasts Ned’s. 

neither of them were supposed to raise the banners during their life. Ned as a second son, Sansa as a girl, they weren’t prepared to deal with this. But due to extreme circumstances and extreme violence perpetrated against them and their blood, they had no choice but take the survival of their home in their own hands.

not unlike Sansa with lord Glover & Lyanna Mormont, Ned was initially met with skepticism and had some trouble convincing people to jump on the rebel bandwagon.

they both have extremely high, personal stakes in this war (even more so for Sansa, who has directly experienced Ramsay’s sadism on her own skin). 

but they take almost a sidekick role, more or less implicitly pushing their partner forward as as they recognize the latter makes for a better “face” for the rebellion (Robert because he had an actual claim to the iron throne, Jon because he’s male and a relatively experienced commander)—it is Robert’s rebellion, much as it is the battle of the Bastards.

they’re at his side when he triumphs (Sansa literally, as she’s seated next to Jon during his crowning), but the victory is tainted by an opening rift between them. For Ned and Robert, it was the disagreement over the brutal murders of Elia’s children, for Jon and Sansa it’s a mix of mutual trust issues and Sansa’s growing resentment for being passed over; in both cases, what began as a closely-knit duo evolves into at least one person being severely disillusioned about the other (and we know that in Ned’s case the disillusionment re:Robert was never really resolved, but intensified when 15 years later he is named Hand).

unlike Ned towards the Iron Throne, however, Sansa has an interest and an actual claim for the seat of Winterfell (that she’s only partially and ambiguously aware of during the whole campaign), and Jon’s rise as King in the North happens at the expense of her own birthright being literally bypassed in front of her eyes. This makes the conflict between Jon and Sansa more layered, and possibly running deeper, than the one between Ned and Robert.

there’s a sibling or sibling-like relationship between both Ned and Robert (fostered together) and Jon and Sansa (raised as half-siblings). While Ned knew that Robert wasn’t his actual brother, seeing him in that sense was a deliberate choice of the heart. For Sansa, it’s almost the opposite: the reason she trusts Jon and is willing to ride at his side is largely because of a sibling bond they actually don’t share (though a family bond still stands, via Lyanna). Who knows if Sansa eventually comes to make Ned’s choice—prioritize nurture over nature and accept Jon as a brother despite not sharing any parent with him. It will be interesting to see how this evolves post r+l=j.

at some point, both Ned and Sansa end up doing something against the other person’s back and keeping a dangerous secret that could be perceived as a betrayal and does contain the seed for a potential threat to the other person’s rule. Ned secretly adopts the last natural son of Rhaegar Targaryen, passing him off as his own bastard. Sansa secretly asks for LF’s help, allowing him into Winterfell’s politics, with all his schemes and personal agendas (and we know LF will try to undermine Jon’s rule). Notice how we’re supposed to sympathize with Ned, but not with Sansa. Ned’s protecting his nephew, while it looks like Sansa’s motivation is either ambition or a lingering hostility towards Jon’s bastardy, neither of which seems particularly noble.

again sooo unlike Ned, Sansa is (seemingly) positioned as the ruthless one in dealing with the remnants of house Bolton AND those who didn’t support their cause despite being bound to house Stark by centuries of vassalage. See: “they can hang”, her execution of Ramsay—and even before that, in season 5, her possibly planting in Ramsay the idea of killing Roose, Walda and the newborn heir (I’m not saying that Sansa intentionally used Ramsay as a proxy to wipe out the entirety of house Bolton, but… yeah, it makes an interesting counterpoint to Ned’s righteous fury at the deaths of little Aegon and Rhaenys).

one of the reasons why Ned was frustrated with Robert at the end of the Rebellion is that Robert ignored his advice to send Jaime to the Night’s Watch as punishment for breaking his oath. Guess who’s also frustrated that the king doesn’t listen to her advice?

yeah.

NOTE: due to the purpose of this post, Jon takes Robert’s place in this Rebellion 2.0, but it goes without saying that’s merely a circumstantial parallel, as the two couldn’t be more dissimilar in personality. Of course, Jon is also = Ned in this scenario, as many of the things above also apply to him, see especially the /going to war against a tyrant who left him no choice and committed atrocities against his family/; also the whole parallel/contrast situation re: Lyanna and Sansa, with Ned rushing to save his sister who was dying inside a tower VS Jon watching his sister come to him after saving herself by jumping off a tower (and how both Sansa’s and Lyanna’s captivities were a major factor in the war, though in different ways). (there ARE some fascinating aspects to Sansa’s season 5 storyline, imo).

I’m not going into this in depth, but it would also be interesting to compare/contrast all the above with the other “kingship” experience in house Stark’s recent history, Robb/Cat. (note how Catelyn has a “breaking of trust” moment too, when she released Jaime behind Robb’s back.) I’ve often seen Sansa compared to Cat via their common role of counselors/supporters of the newly made king, and not without reason, given the deliberate similarities between the two king in the north scenes and the two storylines in general (they were pretty heavy-handed with the Cat/Sansa parallels throughout season 6). But while Catelyn’s role is more in line with a typical mentor figure, due to the generational gap and, well, Catelyn being Robb’s mother, Ned and Sansa are, respectively, Robert’s and Jon’s age peers. Their role is less of advisors and more of co-leaders. 

Catelyn generally took a socially-conscious sidelined role, and exerted her influence through soft power and private conversations, or as an envoy. Sansa’s role is more upfront. She marches at Jon’s side, not behind. She participates to parleys and war councils. She discusses military plans. She addresses their allies and bannermen directly, and personally demands fealty, even when Jon’s right at her side. She even shares with Jon the same cloak and Stark insignia, establishing the two of them as part of the same package. 

A package that she personally designed, btw.

(just a thought, does this make Dadvos the Jon Arryn of the situation? I bet it does.)

But here’s the problem: Sansa is a woman. She doesn’t physically lead her men to battle. She’s a leader, but not a military commander. This makes her political role in all of this harder to define, compared to the one Ned had in Robert’s Rebellion. Is Sansa a part of Jon’s retinue? A privileged advisor? Is she the equivalent of some, huh, queen consort, minus the consort part (I guess)? Is she Hand of the King? Is she Lady of Winterfell, implying that the two titles, lord of winterfell and king in the north, are now de facto distinct? And if so, is she Jon’s first vassal?

Or is she nothing but the king’s sister and the next one in line for succession (until Bran shows up)?

It’s all very blurry because it’s an unprecedented situation, at least in the North, and I think this confusion is at the root of a lot of the current tension between Jon and Sansa. It’s also why we see her in various stages of assertiveness throughout season 6: she is, herself, uncertain of her role, of what her prerogatives and boundaries are (see the war council pre-botb, in which she waits until everyone leaves to question Jon’s plans: it’s like, the more Jon grows into his role as military commander, the nearer the big battle gets, the more Sansa retreats to the shadows, painfully conscious that this is not her purview. The more anxious she gets, too). It’s clear that one of the main future challenges for Jon and Sansa as a team will be to sort out this confusion and define their respective roles.

in light of these parallels, what to expect from season 7?

It looks likely (and spoilers confirm) that Jon and Sansa will have to part ways, at least for a while. Like Robert and Ned at the end of the Rebellion, Jon has to consolidate his rule across the country and this will bring him South, to Dragonstone and King’s Landing, while Sansa stays in Winterfell, entrenched behind its walls, reluctant to ever leave it again, like Ned himself did for so long. But fast forward 15 years after the Rebellion, and you’ll see Ned in King’s Landing again, sitting on the Iron Throne in Robert’s stead, as Hand of the King, and that’s exactly what Sansa is going to do in Winterfell during Jon’s absence. This will be a great testing ground to exercise her political skills, but what I’m actually interested in is how she might—like her father before her—be involved in a mission to thwart a treasonous plot against the King, a plot that features Petyr Baelish in a prominent role. The person Ned trusted to help him expose Robert’s enemies, and who betrayed him. This person is now whispering in Sansa’s ear, earning her trust, making himself *indispensable* like he did with Ned in King’s Landing. This person is simultaneously one of the puppeteers behind the War of the Five Kings, orchestrated Ned’s execution by manipulating Joffrey behind the scenes, and is now trying to use Sansa to undermine Jon and take control of the North. This person has to be dealt with VERY carefully, because, not unlike the Lannisters in AGOT, he holds a good portion of the wealth and the military resources that allow Jon and Sansa to maintain their rule.

It’s time for Sansa to come full circle, by confronting and defeating her father’s nemesis and fix the ultimate wrong, the original wound** that split house Stark in several broken pieces and sent it on a downward spiral: Ned’s death. Where Ned failed—his begrudging trust in Littlefinger being the reason of his fall—his daughter, his legacy, will prevail, by virtue of knowing the enemy intimately enough to predict his strategy and use it against him. The Ned in Sansa has shrunk (a bit) to make room for something of Littlefinger’s, and that’s precisely why she’s going to win this battle.

** because it is the original wound, it makes sense that Sansa, despite being formally in charge, isn’t alone in this. That Arya and Bran will play a role in casting LF down. It will be a joint effort by all of Ned’s children to bring the end of the man who destroyed their father.

in conclusion:

season 6 has firmly convinced me of Sansa’s potential as a political agent, but not necessarily as a queen—a ruling lady of an important castle or region, or, even better, a /hand of the king/ type. She’s still learning, she’s made some obvious mistakes along the way, and the fact that her political training comes from Littlefinger whereas Ned’s came from Jon Arryn inevitably makes her approach to /power/ a bit different than Ned’s—a bit more on the *scheming* side, as it seems that Sansa is growing more and more confident with the Game, in a way Ned was never able to be. 

But that’s only for the better. 

[hoopslab]

Game of Thrones S7 Ep2 Stormborn : Where is Ghost?

SPOILERS FOR GAME OF THRONES ON HBO, UP THROUGH EPISODE 2 OF SEASON 7

On Sunday nights, two of my favorite TV shows come on that both prominently feature a character named Ghost. Ghost is the name of the alter ego of the main character on Power (which you should absolutely watch, if you’ve never seen it before). But on Game of Thrones, Ghost is the name of Jon Snow’s direwolf. Who hasn’t been seen on screen in quite awhile, now.

On Sunday’s Episode 2, we got to see Arya Stark finally reunited with her direwolf, Nymeria. Who was HUGE! Nymeria was the size of a horse, at least, and looked like she could swallow Arya whole. She looked way bigger, to my eyes, than Summer...Bran’s direwolf that met its end last season against the White Walkers. All of the other Stark direwolves are dead...Sansa’s Lady in season 1, Robb’s Grey Wind at the Red Wedding, and Rickon’s Shaggy Dog last season. But Jon’s Ghost is still around...only we haven’t seen him, despite Jon getting lots of airplay.

I found a reference that in real life, the producers of GoT didn’t include Ghost in last season’s Battle of the Bastards for cost considerations. But with WunWun the Giant gone and Jon heading into the Den of Dragons, I’m hoping that we get to see Ghost back on screen and intimidating like Nymeria before long.

Arya decides to go home and meets old friend

As mentioned above, Arya briefly reunited with her direwolf Nymeria this episode. But before that, she made a decision that made me breathe (at least a short-term) sigh of relief...she chose family over revenge. As I mentioned last week, Arya’s eradication of the Freys was a guilty pleasure to watch. But I worried that her on-going mission to take down Cersei, and thus continue through her famous death list from seasons ago, could signal that she was succumbing to the Dark side. 

Thus, when Hot Pie told her that Jon Snow was alive, and that he was the King of the North from Winterfell, I found it to be a moment of truth. The departure scene was well played, and I almost cheered out loud when she turned North to go home.

Of course, along the way, she meets back up with Nymeria...her direwolf, that she had sent away in Season 1 so that Cersei wouldn’t kill her for attacking Joffrey. Arya has dreamed of Nymeria since, so we had seen that Nymeria was leader of her own pack, but this was their first meeting in the flesh. It was bittersweet to see Arya ask Nymeria to come back, which would have fit with the homecoming theme, but Nymeria has a family of her own now (and may just remember Arya throwing rocks at her to get her to leave), so she didn’t follow. It does seem, to me, that Nymeria will end up coming back around at some point, though. As the only live Stark direwolf outside of Ghost, she seems like she’s got a part to play.

Why doesn’t anyone know Bran is alive yet?

As I mentioned last week, when I first started reading A Game of Thrones 20 years ago Bran was my favorite character. The kid that gets thrown out of the window early on, and is a cripple, but that was using his mind to expand his boundaries and had unlimited upside in the story was electric in 1997. Unfortunately, he’s probably the character that (to date) has lost the most luster in going from print to the screen, because so much of what makes him cool goes on in his mind and it doesn’t always translate to the screen.

But, be that as it may, he’s clearly a powerful wildcard in the story. In addition to his unknown magical pedigree and role as the new Three Eyed Raven, he is also the oldest living son of Eddard Stark (and thus the rightful heir to Winterfell). I’m not expecting him to come down and displace his siblings, but...everyone thinks that he’s dead. And we saw, last episode, that he made it into Castle Black...so...why haven’t they sent Jon Snow a message telling him that his little brother is alive? Jon received messages from Sam Tarly and Tyrion Lannister, both much farther away than Castle Black. So...why no word of Bran? I’m curious if there’s a bigger reason for this secrecy, and if so I want to see how it plays out.

Grey Worm’s weakness

When the episode was coming on, HBO gave the warning that it contained nudity and strong sexual content. When I saw that, I actively speculated who in Westeros was in the position/mindset to be thinking about sex. Outside of a random tossaway scene at a brothel, which GoT has done in the past, the only characters I could think of were either Yara and Sandsnake Mama (more on them later), or Grey Worm and Missandei. 

I’m glad it was the latter. We all know that Grey Worm gave up...a lot...to become Unsullied, and that therefore the union couldn’t be as fully satisfying to all involved as it could have been. But the two of them have had mad chemistry for years now, so it was good to see their emotions play out like that. And if Grey Worm was going to develop a weakness, Missandei seems like a great weakness to have.

Is Jon reliving old Stark mistakes, Sansa & Littlefinger

Ned Stark’s father and older brother Brandon underestimated Littlefinger. Brandon was to marry Catelyn, and he beat up Littlefinger for having a crush on her. Brandon and his father were very honorable. Both went south to meet the Mad King, and both were killed.

Ned Stark underestimated Littlefinger. He was married to Cat, went south to become Hand for King Robert. Ned was very honorable. Ned is dead.

Rob Stark didn’t deal much with Littlefinger. But, he went South, and while there went to see Cat’s brother get married...at a little venue called the Red Wedding. Yeah, he’s dead.

Now, Jon rules the North. He’s very honorable. He keeps butting heads with his sister, who is much better at politics (though they could really use some help in having their disagreements NOT before the rest of the nobles). He keeps making political mistakes that can (and actually did) get him killed. And, this episode, he dared lay hands on Petyr Baelish before agreeing to go south to meet a Targeryen monarch.

It seems unlikely at this point that Jon is just going to go and get killed while talking to Dany. But...he certainly seems to be caught in the same traps that have taken out the last several generations of Stark men. At the very least, it’s a disturbing trend.

Why was Yara caught so off-guard by Euron’s attack?

Yara and Ellaria were well on their way to giving the episode a second nudity/SSC scene when her fleet was attacked by her uncle Euron. This led to the big fight sequence in the episode, showed off Euron’s pirating chops, saw the death of two Sand Snakes, and gave us the poignant scene of “Yara’s protector” Theon showing that he is still both cowardly (always was) and broken (has been since his time as Reek).  

But, before all of that...how on earth did Euron catch Yara’s fleet so off-guard? Yara knows that Euron is a pirate, that he claimed the GreyJoy crown, and that he was homicidally crazy. Plus, Yara is an accomplished captain in her own right, and her fleet should have been a crack crew. So, how did Euron ambush them with NO idea that he was coming? I know it was dark, and the weather wasn’t great, but...seems to me that there should have been a bit more warning than that, if Yara’s crew was worth anything at all. 

As it happened, it looks like Euron may actually have deserved the Iron crown for proficiency, even if he sucks as a human being. Moving forward, it looks like he has the “gift” that he promised Cersei, in Ellaria and Yara. May he find all of the happiness that he deserves in the loving embrace of his new mistress, Cersei.

Cersei’s dragon killer & Jamie’s recruitment of Sam’s dad

Speaking of the Lannister Queen, Cersei spend episode two trying to bring new allies aboard for her war. She used half-truths to try to sway several of the secondary nobles in the land, led by Randyll Tarly. Jamie continued to try to recruit Tarly after Cersei’s scene, trying to approach him in a “man to man” kind of way that Sam’s dad initially rebuffed but seemed to be considering at scene end.

But potentially the biggest outcome of Cersei’s scenes was her time with the mad scientist, who has apparently developed a dragon-killing super crossbow. This is huge, because the dragons have always been Dany’s ace in the hole. The Targeryens originally conquered the Seven Kingdoms with three dragons, that no one else could find a way to counter. Dany returned with a fleet, the Unsullied and the Dothraki...but her biggest trump card were her dragons. Giving Cersei’s crew a realistic way to possibly counteract that threat gives the first sense that Cersei actually has a shot here. At the end of last season, it looked like Dany could come in and walk over the Lion Queen. Now, it’s more interesting.

Can we get a facemask for Sam?

So, yeah. There’s no other way to put it...Sam’s surgery scene with Jorah Mormont was just gross. I’m a doctor scientist that has participated in my fair share of nastiness, but that scene (and morphing it right into the guy eating a gross-looking soup/stew) was ick-worthy. 

That said, I was watching the scene as a scientist, and I don’t see any way that Sam could avoid getting stone man disease. It’s highly contagious, and it’s transferred by contact, right? Sam had on the gown and gloves, but his face was wide open and right in front of the yuck-skin that he was peeling off with juices oozing. Some of that stuff had to splash in his face (speaking from experience, here...unfortunately). Which means that, while Sir Friend Zone now has a realistic path at living in the short term, it seems to me that Sam may need his own flaying in the near future to remove his own stone disease.

The Prince/Princess Who was Promised vs Azor Ahai

Of course, the biggest scenes in Episode 2 revolved around Jon Snow and Dany, as they are on a collision course to finally meet. Jon and Dany have been, without a doubt, the two biggest potential protagonists and most talked about characters over the course of the books and the show. They have always been the leaders in the clubhouse for the title “most likely to be the hero”, and even in the story there are prophecies that can fit either/both of them as the ultimate messiah for the Seven Kingdoms.

Melisandre, the priestess for the Lord of Light, brought one of those prophecies up again in Ep 2. She had originally thought that Stannis Baratheon was Azor Ahai, the prophesied leader that would be reborn in fire to wake dragons from stone. However, even when Stannis was alive, we the readers/watchers knew that there was another character in Dany that sounded like she fulfilled the prophecy to a much better degree.

However, there’s another prophecy that has floated through the books and show, about a Prince that was Promised (PtwP) to be born and lead the world in their time of need. This is the prophecy that Melisandre brings up in Episode 2, while talking to Dany and trying to get her to invite Jon Snow to Dragonstone. Missendei corrects the translation to mean that it could be “Prince or Princess” that was Promised, so Dany could fit that one as well. Melisandre is non-commital, though, and she was previously convinced that Jon Snow is actually the fulfillment of that prophecy.

All told, there’s a lot we don’t know. The PtwP and Azor Ahai could refer to the same person, or different. Dany certainly fits the “born in salt and smoke” and “waking dragons out of stone” parts of the Azor Ahai prophecy, while Jon Snow fits some some of the PtwP descriptors. Maybe it’s the two of them, together, that are prophecied. Or, maybe we’re in for one more GoT curveball and one or both will be killed off before the end. It’s still up in the air, even 5 books and now 7 seasons in, which is part of what makes this show (and the books) so epic.

Other articles of interest

Game of Thrones S7 Ep1: Winter has been a long time coming

[lady-griffin]

The Downfall of Littlefinger (updated)

Petyr Baelish is a great villain. A manipulative man who has slowly worked his way to being a ‘contender’ for the Iron Throne. How big of a contender he actually is, is debatable.

And like many great villains he needs an appropriate downfall and if the Book Series/Show is going where I think it is, his downfall will be one constructed by his own strengths/weaknesses.

6. Big Picture

This actually probably won’t be an aspect of Petyr’s downfall, as he’ll likely be dead; but the dead rising/White Walkers is an important element that he and other nobles are not paying attention to, as they are too focus on the small iron throne, rather than the fate of the world.

As said before, Petyr will likely (I think) be dead before the White Walkers become the most domineering threat for everyone, but it’s an important note.

5. Too Few Players

Petyr seems to do his best when there are multiple players and he is able to manipulate and control many people. Having other players knock other contenders for the throne off the board without anyone, for the most part, being wise to his actions.

Now though, in the show more so, there are less major players on the board and Petyr has lost his greatest strength. He was once a “small player” that no one considered, now he is a big part of the politics of Westeros and he lost what made him such a threat. Especially since it seems Petyr isn’t really adapting to his role as a big player and in many ways still acts a small player, who thinks no one will notice or care about his actions – even though that’s not the case anymore.

4. Biting more than he can chew

Petyr wants to be the King of the Iron Throne. This is clearer in the show, in the books it is still (I think) somewhat ambiguous. Instead of being content with just being a powerful lord or becoming the head of major house, Petyr wants it all. Willing to destroy or burn down all of Westeros if he has to.  

Arguably I think Petyr would be better off if he moved to one of the Free Cities, where his type of politics and lack of familial status will better serve him or at least not hinder him. As nobility and one’s status is a huge element to the politics and culture of Westeros and no matter how hard he tries, Petyr can’t overcome that.

Perhaps if he had a more Tywin line of thinking (everything for the family/legacy), House Baelish could have eventually been a major house and Petyr would’ve been recognized for generations.

3. Lack of Loyalty & Honor

Petyr has certainly been able to use other people’s strong sense of honor and nobleness to achieve his goals, however his severe lack of the qualities in himself will bite him in the ass. As the players become fewer and he himself becomes bigger; Honor/Nobleness are concepts that are deeply part of Westeros (whether for show or not) and they greatly matter to the major houses. 

Where Petyr is right now, the Vale (books) or the North (show), honor is a huge aspect to the cultures of those regions and especially in the show I think, Petyr is at a disadvantage become he is the lone snake surrounded by people who are quite honorable and do not like being manipulated.

Also as the politics become less important vs. THE ACTUAL DEAD WALKING, a sense of honor and duty will take precedence. There’s not going to be a lot of room for backstabbing and political maneuvers.

2. Family/House Loyalty

While Petyr is aware of the loyalty other characters feel to their Noble Houses. it never seems like Petyr fully understands it himself. Because Petyr doesn’t really have loyalty to House Baelish. A key example is that Petyr changed his house sigil from the Braavos Titan to a Mockingbird to fit him personally.

The loyalty characters feel to their houses is on par to the real-world sense of nationalism. It’s ingrained in the members of House Stark, Tyrell, Lannister, Targayeon and ect. And that’s something I don’t think Petyr has and often overlooks in other characters.

This is especially important to how he views Sansa Stark.

1. Sansa STARK

The biggest key to Petyr’s downfall or his actual downfall will be Sansa, as Petyr only sees what he wants to see, which is Sansa or Catelyn 2.0. he doesn’t see Sansa STARK, he doesn’t recognize that Sansa is a Stark (not a Tully) and that is his greatest weakness.

Sansa will be his downfall. Because she’s not his future bride or his new Catelyn, she’s Ned Stark’s daughter. She’s a direwolf, daughter of winterfell, and so on.

And Sansa has a lot more wolf in her than Petyr acknowledge let alone is aware of.

(BONUS) Petyr’s actual death or what I think will most likely be the end for Littlefinger

3. Dagger to throat/Knife in the back

For a man who betrays his allies as quickly as Petyr does, this physical death would be very fitting for his way of life. And I think the possibility of Sansa doing this is rather high.

2. Execution – Beheading

It would be very fitting for the man who does everything in the shadows to be killed so publicly and officially (legal). Also, if Petyr is killed Northerner style that means whoever is chopping his head off will be the one who is passing his sentence, the complete opposite of Petyr’s mindset of ‘never soiling one’s own hands’.

This would also be fitting as it’s strongly believed Littlefinger was the one whispering in Joffrey’s ear and that led to Ned’s execution.

Also as many people have brought up the imagery of Littlefinger losing his head, by the hands of Sansa has been foreshadow. With Sansa ripping Robyn’s doll’s head off in her snow castle-Winterfell. And since many people seem to believe that this just the mundane prophesy of “I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow,” it seems fitting that this scene foreshadows Petyr’s death and the true outcome of the prophesy.

However, I’m not sure how likely it is for Sansa will be the one doing the physical execution and while someone else can do it for her, that leaves bad taste in my mouth; Sansa calling for her own “Ilyn Payne” to bring her Petyr’s head isn’t really justice, it just shows how Sansa is like Joffrey—which she isn’t. The biggest payoff for Petyr’s death will be for Sansa to kill him herself.

1. Poison

Petyr is responsible for two very key poisonings: Jon Arryn and Joffrey Baratheon. While others did the act, Petyr was the mastermind.

The full ‘prophesy’: “I dreamt of a maid at a feast, with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."

This is a ‘prophecy’ believed to be a foretelling of Sansa killing Petyr at Winterfell or the Vale.

While the two dreams don’t have to be connected, aside from them both being visions of Sansa, the fact that Sansa’s killing the savage comes right after it is mention that she has ‘venomous snakes’ in her hair--leads me to think poison will be her method.

But, poison as the method is not as clear as the rest. I think it is the most likely method to be used for Littlefinger’s downfall, especially (to my knowledge) Sansa still has the strangler hair net (in the books).