#vodwatching zam “LIKE HIM”

[coffeegnomee]

Mapicc just left the call and I have too many thoughts to wait until after I finish the vod.

it is so Fascinating to me how 1) Mapicc is good at communication and 2) how much he patiently bides his time.

Mapicc has been not putting his own desires (bloodlust) first ever since he ended the experiments. We saw all like last week how he was willing to not kill Kab for Zam and there was so much discussion over how much he will do anything for Zam because he just wants to be around Zam again.

And so he doesn't mind putting the bloodlust to the side as long as it makes Zam happy, because that makes him happy.

But this day Mapicc, once the imminent threat and fight was over, immediately got Zam into a call and confronted him about Derap and then, in the most, like, extremely confident and clear way, explained how Zam not letting him kill Derap made him feel.

He was up front about his emotions, did not project, deflect, or throw shade at Zam at all, and basically just let him know how he was upset that Zam got int the way of his kill and how much he did not like that.

MAPICC: "hmm. Okay. I get you're mr pacifist [..] saving people, but like, my kills are my kills.”

MAPICC: “yea I- they're like my justifications. You know what I mean? So it’s like, it sucks when like, my kills are fucked”

MAPICC: "and like if I had killed him you could have had the heart and then we could have had a better chance of killing the actual bad people. And what would derapchu have done? Had slightly less of his already way too many hearts”

After each of these point he pauses, letting Zam hear what he's saying, letting Zam process it, waiting for Zam to acknowledge where he was coming from.

And each time Zam agrees Mapicc is right. He sees Mapicc's point.

And then the most devotions comment of the conversation:

ZAM: "but should I be allowed to turn a blind eye in that sense?” MAPICC: "well I don't want to be in a situation where I can't talk about what kills I'm gonna get or what I’m doing and I have no backup, you know what I mean?”

He doesn't want to not be able to tell Zam what he's up to. He doesn't want that situation, so he's getting ahead of it and letting Zam know immediately how he feels.

I can't help but feel like this is exactly the reason why Zam always ends up with Mapicc in every season. He is incredibly good at communication and making his point and his opinion clear.

And because he has such a clear opinion on how the server works and what makes it work best, he is incredibly persuasive and Zam ends up following him wherever he goes. (I've heard whispers Zam is thinking of leaving now, haven't gotten there. will be interesting)

I've thought so much over the years how Lifesteal is about convincing other people to do your thing.

Walk into your trap, show up at a fight, yap with you, join your team, stop their lore, whatever it is, the entire thing revolves around persuasion.

Which brings me to the second point, Mapicc is incredibly patient.

The week before the experiments ended, in a muted stream that was saved on the archive, Bacon and Mapicc talk about the server, and Mapicc says his one main goal is to get all the pacifists to break. (9/4/24)

And a week before, while Zam was cleaning up the burned down tree, while talking about how quickly Flame gave up on his fight, Mapicc said, “He’s never fought princezam. He’s gonna have to learn like a new, like dedication to the sport” (8/25/24)

Now, I don't actually think Mapicc had some grad evil manipulation arc to get close to Zam and get him to break (though I'll admit at the time my brain automatically thought everyone is pulling a Spoke wormhole at all times)

But it is more that he realized he would be much more effective in getting Zam to change his opinions if he was close to Zam and could build the trust necessary to get him to see why Mapicc thought his view was flawed, and as an added bonus he would get to hang out with Zam a lot for free.

And here we finally had the perfect moment. Zam died in a fight. Because he had low hearts.

So Mapicc makes it clear how Zam's actions made him feel and then drives his point home about why Zam should think differently the rest of the conversation:

MAPICC: "it’s not cause you were playing shit it's cause you have nothing bro, and it's like, you're a crutch to yourself [..] which is like, you can be a crutch to yourself, but like mapicc is the healthcare” ZAM: "I wanna beat them in pvp. I wanna be able to take them on in a fight and win” MAPICC: “you know what you have to do for that?” ZAM: "*sigh* yea I- I do” ZAM: "and the only person who died in that fight was me” MAPICC: “[sing song] and you know why bro. Like genuinely. Like you can't keep doing this. Well, you can if you want to, I mean obviously you can if your morals, but like-... I don't think it’s the best move” ZAM: "and all I can do is just stand in the destruction” MAPICC: "yup"

Mapicc's ideology for the server is that fighting is always a good, conflict and content should happen all the time. You should kill because it progresses the server forward in some way. You should always have some reason to back up your murder, but that reason can be small, the only important thing is that you have a reason and it is something you can communicate.

He also thinks power is always a reason to kill someone.

Zam on the other hand, Mapicc's beloved friend, does not think the same way, at least not in full. Zam understands conflict should happen on the server, and that the powerful should be fought, and in those situations devotions flourish.

But Zam operates from a character motivation, which he will change season to season, and from his emotions, which means his opinion about himself and his past actions has a HUGE pull on why he does anything ever. This was literally the foundation of this entire stream starting with a 40 minute reflection on s4 and vitalasy.

They are fundamentally, for their deepest core perspectives, ideologically opposed for their opinions on how to act on the server.

Idk if they'll ever be able to be on the same team forever. Sometimes, for brief moments, everything lines up and their devotion runs wild. They work the most synergistically of any duo on lifesteal ever.

But then Mapicc's bloodlust gets too strong and Zam's emotions get too loud and things fall apart.

At least, historically.

(oh, and felt the need to add at the end here that operating from emotions is not a /neg statement. It is entirely /neutral in my mind)

[freakinator]

deraps methods fascinate (derogatory) me cause why is He deciding whats good for zam while essentially holding his life hostage

[faela0]

okay so since im vodwatching

I think derap showing up as soon as he woke up and logging on to talk to zam because he was frustrated and then finding him mining the diorite in jumpers hole and immediately starting mining with him - it's just such a perfect introduction to the the dynamic of zam and derap on atlas cos really, every other atlas moment so far was just talking plans.

As soon as Derap starts mining the diorite, zam is like questioning why and tries to tell derap that he doesn't need help

Zam: "Why are you helping me collect this, you don't need to do that, I don't need that much. Derap: "Why would I n- Why would I not help you? Hello?"

He says it like helping him collect diorite, which is such a small trivial thing to do, is the most sound and obvious course of action here. And to Derapchu, it is, because Zam is his teammate and in his quest to support his teammate to the fullest, he sees zam doing something he can help with and so, he does. He doesn't know what the diorite is for, he just helps, cause he can, no questions asked.

Zam on the other hand questions this, he's sorta like caught off guard by Derap helping with a thing so trivial as collecting diorite, and tries to deny the help since he's so used to collecting resources and rebuilding spawn alone this season. It was also probably a little jarring since the help wasn't asked for, or offered- it just happened, and Zam, being a person who values himself based on how much he can help others, immediately questions it.

(also after they both stop because Zam says that he has enough and after mane drops by, Zam begins collecting diorite again while talking to kab, and Derapchu starts again collecting too - he only stops to msg zam to leave.)

[derww]

have you ever read a fanfic where authors self-insert travels into some story and fixes the life of a sad and pathetic wet cat character? | some thoughts about several new members being lifesteal watchers before joining.

one thing ive been thinking alot lately. before s5 we didn't really have a moment of "oh, this new member has been watching lifesteal before joining". and even in s5, its almost like this is not that important because here we have, to a much greater extent, people whose metagame-luggage is in the fact that they knew lifestealers. as 4c having his friendship and silly feuds with mid, and jumper being really close vi's friend, and pentar being jumper's friend, and squiddo knowing ash for ages, and wemmbu being friends with zam&minute for like an eternity. even jepexx with all his ive literally founded this server, hes an irl friends with mapicc and poafa, I literally remember one time when he came in the middle of the lore and mapicc had to bribe poafa to distract him. and it is a really cool and interesting theme as its own, a great foundation for the different headcanons and aus and using it as a part of the dynamics, but nothing of what we've been searching, yeah?

wrong. minutetech. minutetech who was clowns fan and literally created a team clown would want to be – his actual character's basis has watching lifesteal in it, and his weird attitude towards clown drags on throughout the season, ending with his death. but hey, it's been more than that, not just watching videos, he was watching streams, he was a visitor in the zams chat. and watching streams, even in fragments, is a completely different level in regard to just watching videos. and it is obvious by how he speaks about zam and how he is inspired by past him, and how he remembers some specific parts. minutetech is the fanboy on the server, im sorry, and i love him for it. he wasnt a frequent visitor, but he was able to open the curtain and be impressed, and that's cool.

moving away from the relatively linear rookie roster of the season 5, the season 6 one if a fucking rolecoaster. okay, okay, lets start with something easier. hannah defo didnt get the memo, zero idea about sb but i think he watched atleast clown, e doesnt seem to really care, his thing is the reverse, his connection to bliss and how they showed themselves as both touching and deadly family, threatening pentar with knives in case he did not protect their boy, and chief does it s5-style, being friends with minute. its really hard to consider flame, he defo watched atleast part of the things, and he is friends with pentajumper, and he refers to the past seasons but misses out a lot and doesnt seem to have a consistent understanding of a context. 

okay. manepear. his case is kinda close with minute's in a part that he actually was a big lifesteal and esp clown's fan. never saw that one fanart he drew for zam but really would like to. lifesteal was an important thing for him much before he actually joined, and i can see him having good ground knowledge of video-part of the server, albeit easily missing something really important. hes also friends with pentajumper and had his clown rivalry story on bizzare just before lifesteal, giving him an interesting starting point and explaining why he did betray his idol of the past so easily. making him vodwatch s4 eclipse would make him better in lifestealing i promise. he just needs to find a balance.

to the main course. lets speak about kab first. this is a part where shit gets actually interesting since. you know...

("Powerless", 03/29/23)

oh, hi, Derapchu.

(literally the betrayal stream 03/28/23)

wait, lets make a pause. look, its Fl4pp0!

(also the betrayal stream)

the one who made new lifesteal stickers! wow! absolutely nothing interesting about them aside from thi-

okay. let's digress from the topic for a bit – it will make sense later, I promise. you know showtime smp? its fine if you dont.

the important part you should know is that showtime aknowledges stream viewers as an important part of a plot. they are called the audience, and how interested they are in a particular character is directly responsible for their well-being. most of the characters know that they are being watched, and some even hear the voices of the audience, and sometimes they are even asked questions, the answers to which can have a real impact on what is happening. and here is mika flappo. yes, this flappo, from the chat. (fun fact, there was also atleast two other showtime members lol)

firstly he is just a really cool fanarter in the showtime fandom, and she enjoys the streams and the plot as we all do, and then it... then they are just HERE.

just imagine. you live your very fucking hard and terrible life, having to deal with all sorts of shit and somehow not lose your head, and you hide so, so fucking much from everyone, because they can't know, because it's so scary and dangerous. and then you meet someone for the first time, and the first fucking thing they say to you is "oh, its YOU". and they do know what you did.

they were a part of the audience because mika has been literally watching the streams all this time. and yeah, she doesnt know everything, only the parts gods chose to show to the viewers, and they actually watched live, but its still sooo fucking much. and now an absolute stranger is walking around the server, and they know your worst secrets and impute you for your sins. luckily, mika can't spoil things, so its not like he can actually tell anyone, but her existence by itself is still pretty fucking terrifying.

luckily, both kab and derap are not just some strangers, but also they don't have to keep their mouths shut. they know what only the audience knows, and for them it becomes an important part of their understanding of the world and zam, something that they can use to their advantage. and they do.

kab heavily relies on a feeling of understanding and knowing better, and sometimes for me it feels like shes trying to do it even speaking about zam's feelings. at some point shes been heavily relying on pitying him as a way to show that she understands, and she's sorry, and she knows what exactly zam has to change to be better. its like... being the chatter who always backseats, but now you are actually here. absolutely no neg to kab, obviously.

its actually interesting how kab simultaneously sees and knows (or thinks she knows) so many zams weak spots and problems and traumas and calls him broken and harming himself and almost as if unable to make the right decisions for himself, and at the same time she puts him on a pedestal, perceiving him as a hero, as someone who should adhere to the correct perception and reflect her idea of a good person and teammate. and... it makes sense as a way of wanting to help your favorite anime character to become better without actually understanding either them or their beliefs and wishes and just trying to recreate the picture from my head of how things have to be, depriving a character of personality and autonomy in the process. even her expecting him to help her with the karmas law – she thinks that this idea is objectively right, so obviously white knight (lol) princezam has to get it.

people really liked her asking if she reminds him of someone he once was. i really do not. because sure, shes right at the ground lvl, but she doesnt get it. shes not s5, shes s4. she is vi and zam at the same time, and it makes my head hurt. "not everything is about you, zam", but she does make everything about him, really. i wonder if he was her favorite character.

i like that sometimes she acknowledges that she doesnt actually know better than anyone else. that she is just scared because her methods doesnt work anymore. but she speaks the opposite so often that sometimes i just dont know what she really thinks. with her strange division into lore and non-lore, with how much kab lies to people and lies to herself, she remains frustrating. sometimes I have a feeling that she plays a completely different character than the one she ends up being, and hey, that's part of the server.

some of it can be said about derapchu, and its easy to say that hes better than kab, but i dont really think so. hes less pushy about it, surely, but he also thinks he knows how itd be better for zam and intends to make him change in a way he deems correct. sure, he doesnt idolize or pity him, but he still wants to fix zam.

its not that easy as just dividing things on yours and servers because zam has a connection to it, and the server's well-being is directly connected to his. with enough mental gymnastics, even the desire to repair the spawn can be called at least partially selfish since zam does it for himself too, since he loves things being pretty and cool. speaking of the server as a whole, it is difficult to draw a line between where he does something for himself and where he does something only for others with just how conditional the common good is and how important the server itself is to him, just alive, just working, just being played. he wanted to make everyone give a shit and never fully left this modus.

and in a sense, derapchu fails. as gapples being for the fights against mane, or considering that zam perceives the hearts in a similar way as he does (and he really isnt, our guy was giving out the hearts left and right, really, and he knows derap enough to be sure he wouldnt do anything malicious), or seemingly never noticing that zam, despite being mostly truthful during the whole dialogue, never actually opened up to him. maybe his common experience and zam trusting him makes him feel like it is enough, but its barely a half. he said sorry for being too pushy today tho. and helped zam just because. it was good. sadly its not enough to understand that he cant just choose whats better for the other person.

you know, i really like to think about having all this background of being a lifesteal watcher from the point of the full-blown lore, without pulling out the card that the characters are also streamers or youtubers. this is a part that requires an individual approach: for example, i have drafts where boomie and kab, as centrals, contact their lifesteal friends directly through hacked communicators. or, for example, clown is known because the coolness of his conquests spread into legends, caught everyone's eye, and became worldwide news. in general, you can just come up with a connection between the worlds, like fidonet, or even a more modern Internet, and this will make everything much better. or you can follow the showtime trail and give each character an audience – similar to just making them streamers, but that's the twist that makes just enough of a difference. and, in the end, people can just be friends, meet in their free time, and tell stories. both derapchu and kab were zams friends long before joining the server, and this is something that should not be forgotten either. they, unlike the rest of us, have a real context. and, like, wow.

overall: these aussies gotta understand that zam is not their pet project and that he doesnt need to be fixed. some help here and there wouldnt be bad, sure, but they cant just choose whats right for him and whats not. he is, in this context, his own person and not just a book character and he needs a friend, but not saviour nor doctor nor manipulator nor mechanic. just a friend.

[doubleslashkarma]

still vodwatching. derap and zam's convo after mapiccs and flame's attack. im gonna be sick. like i dont even know how to handle what im watching right neow. he just???? cares???? so much????

derapchu's weakness/strength has always been that he just Says what hes thinking always. and its why he has a reputation for saying sus shit and its why he manages to get so many people pissed off at him. and i guess that also means when he cares about someone he just Cannot Stop Telling Them. everything he says is just I Love You I Love You I Love You. i literally dont even know what to do rn. im fucking stunlocked

[taiey]

#i think about this piece of mine #im not sure i ever mentioned it but i made it while vodwatching the eclipse fed streams where everything was still ‘good’ #when the bedrock prison hadnt even been mentioned and zam hadnt had that first moment of ‘oh shit. theyre kind of like mapicc and ro’ #but i knew things werent going to be golden forever cause of spoilers #so i made this thinking like. sure it can be read as sweet. as zam finally having teammates who he feels care about him #he can feel cared for now #but to me after everything it reads more like zam trying to convince himself that they DO care about him #despite all of the secrets that they keep #when hes the only one awake he is left alone with only his thoughts #so he tries and tries and tries to convince himself that this is ok #so that he doesnt lose the one good thing he has #so yeah#i like this piece cause in a way it reflects my own perspective through watching zam’s

eclipse is a little too silly

[coffeegnomee]

This conversation with Mane has got me thinking about what it is about Spokeishere that made him such an incredible villain.

And I realized that Spoke never cared about player activity. That wasn't his main goal.

All his plots were around doing the plot with whomever was around, and usually, since it was server ending, he actively didn't want players to be active. (the cleansing is interesting and i'll get to it later)

Like, season 3 Spoke wanted to ban everyone off the server. And here was a PrinceZam actively trying to stop him. Spoke didn't care if everyone else gave up, that was the point. He wanted everyone to give up. But Zam would just NOT give up.

The finale therefore revolved around getting Zam in particular to give up, and trying to ban everyone else off the server.

Spoke needs players to care about his plots, but it's not about generalized player activity.

In s4, over the whole season, but specifically once he got the wormhole barrel on lifesteal, he started doing little stream events with each player that he could get to long on. Individually inviting them to be active.

Vortex and Mapicc hide and seek that won them wormhole items. (bro got vortexdragon to log on I mean come on) Going on Zam's stream and making poopies, bringing poopies to Bacon's streams and Planet's streams and making a playhouse for players to try and survive. Making Peepees the warden during Zam's fight with Mapicc partially on Mapicc's request, then making a maze for players to go through and survive. Joining Zam's stream to splash the po potion on him. Telling Planet to stream and showing off some of the wormhole items. Joining Zam's stream when Branzy logged on and giving Branzy the dolphin potion.

Just so many little events played with the members who already were active, or asking specific members to log on and doing something with them.

And that got a huge roster of members who were mildly aware of what was going on so as things ramped up they understood the context.

But it was never about getting people to care about the server again, he just created an environment where they had fun and therefore did care about the server.

And as the season approached its end, he told Parrot that if he and 3ht could survive the wormhole they would win.

And the people who were inactive who logged onto the event were presented with absolute chaos but it was clear they were opposing spoke so they naturally gravitated to asking Parrot what he needed and that got them involved.

The wormhole was a protect the president event, with clear sides. But if you didn't show up it didn't matter to Spoke. It was on 3ht and Parrot to convince people to help them, they would be hunted down regardless.

And that event showed just how good Spoke is at keeping an eye out on hopelessness and pressing forward or laying off or keeping op items in reserve or asking parrot what items to ban so that there was no way for 3ht to be banned before at minimum the final hour.

He is phenomenal at understanding hope and making sure it stays high.

The Cleansing was a little different, it was started, iiuc, because players weren't active and out of the conclusion that that was because there was a heart discrepancy.

So the end goal was to make it easier for player to be active, but that wasn't the goal of the arc. The goal of the arc was to kill every player once. They didn't have the goal to get everyone to care about lifesteal again, they just killed you once if you logged on, and in one day killed, what, 6 players? By doing such a scandalously brutal first day (and with an exploit) it created an intrigue to everyone else and an opposition formed. And because the cleansers wanted more players to log on to harvest hearts from, they were perfectly happy to oblige the dirties with the fights they wanted in retribution for the hearts they had already taken.

They didn't just want the members active, they needed them to be active so they could engage in a fight and kill them.

And when a member logged on that wasn't normally active, everyone knew they would be targeted by the cleansers and worked to save them. It was clear they were in danger.

And that engagement brought more interest, and that interest created a large group and before you knew it Clown was getting bloodthirsty and created a side team to get all the hearts and now there were three teams and everyone ganged up on decimation and Clown got bed trapped and the cleaners won and the hearts were distributed and it was lifesteal's most highly rated event.

But this event-based plot that will work with just whoever is active, and whoever is active will naturally get whoever is not active to be active, and that will get the whole server active without you trying, is a wholly unique mindset that Spoke has that is different from any member who has tried to be the villain.

The abyss, to their credit, once they became a scavenger hunt event, saw wildly more player activity than when they were just a hole to the void. And Medusa and the s4 prison were both events as well, and they saw a good amount of intrigue.

[coffeegnomee]

Ok so Manepear. Finally finished the vod. This. Is. Fascinating. Manepear has spawned into lifesteal with a baseline understanding of villainy that not a single new member has expressed at all.

And he is a completely unique threat. A very frustrating threat that will just never die or loose /pos. And now that he's explained his mentality he's just so much more interesting.

The fundamental difference from other villains is this:

 MANE: “if you're constantly loosing how are you supposed to be a threat”

He does not think the villain should loose at all until the proper time (maybe ever?). And until that time the villain should protect himself at all costs so as to not stop being a threat - we know this from how much he didn't want to 2v1 Mapicc and Zam because he would just die, among other instances.

This is why though; we finally get to see why he's like this.

Which is just Interesting. A threat that gets you pissed off because you can not win until he lets you, on his timing.

I have so many thoughts about how this will work out long term but it is interesting to say the least.

But what is really encouraging is how he, and this isn't the first time he's done this while yapping, he comes to a new conclusion in real time. And works it out and thinks it through why someone is acting the way they're acting or how he should move forward. He thinks so much about these things and it's so exciting to get a look into his brain.

MANE: "something just hit me right now. There’s two paths we can take [..] either we can keep being op threats [..] or you guys have more of a chance if me and flame go through with what we want to do [...] i don't want to make it harder, cause if people loose hope, then they're just not gonna, they're just not gonna fight back”

ZAM: "yea it’s a tough thing to balance”

[coffeegnomee]

“There’s no future where i could talk to vitalasy about any of this”

this stream is a fever dream and i am 19 minutes in

[coffeegnomee]

I love stone sword. I really love it a lot. Because it makes no sense to the opps but its part of never giving up and sometimes it works and it just makes Zam get backed into a corner (tragically of his own making) and then he has to reach out to somebody and omg it really just is the same this season as s4. Cause he dies and has to dm his whole friend list and Subz of all people logs on to save him. 

But it’s also like, Zam doesn't explain his whole mentality to anyone ever, and that's part of getting them to go where he wants. He could crack and tell Mane he had a trap but that would be dumb. So he has to play dumb. And hiding behind stone sword is a great way because it baits the opps into trying to test if zam is telling the truth about never giving up.

It's so evocative. I love it a lot. ZAM: “I’ll take as many deaths as I have to as long as you die. I do not care. Don't hold back. I don't want you to hold back”

[freakinator]

bacon told zam he wasnt gonna lie to him and. well, he definitely didnt!

[freakinator]

is flame wanting power over zam just a result of his power hunger or is there more to it than that??

[coffeegnomee]

Wemmbu being so dead set in thinking that the ticket was going to be his ban is so funny to me.

bro just wants to be free and edit this video.

[freakinator]

ash questioning why hes telling zam things is so funny cause i cant tell if hes being genuine or not lmao

[freakinator]

hmm maybe this is just me being schizoid but i dont think showing derap a place that you wanna keep to yourself is the best way to keep it to yourself lmao

[freakinator]

oh wow i completely forgot he referenced s4 as well

yeah all of minute's references are tainted a certain color to them now thanks to the joker arc. god.

im rewatching the tower vod rn and ugh god all minutes s3 references are shining in a different light for me now

like it used to be haha funny reference cause minute is a fanboy but now its like. well i mean hes still a fanboy but like. its Different now