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btsydtrash · 3 years

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So Far Away [2]

single father yoongi x preschool teacher yn; mechanic vmin

Living as a single father, Yoongi had to make many adjustments to his lifestyle, specifically in two aspects: his sleep schedule and dating. Both of which, he doesn't get to pay enough attention to.

Things all change when he meets YN - a warm-hearted girl who gives him butterflies and makes him feel as if he's floating on cloud nine.

Now, all that he has to do is get her to actually notice him.

Masterlist / i dont have a tag list / find me on twitter / word count: 2.9k

author’s note: so the side-pairing is vmin, and that’ll develop as the story goes on, but won’t be a main narrative. taehyung is the bestest friend in the world and would do anything for YN. no, literally. anything.

(angst / smut / yandere / gore / fluff)

Chapter 2 - Intrigue

“Taehyung, I need you to stop doing this to my shampoo,” you cry, holding the empty container above your head like an anvil. “I really mean it this time!”

“Sorry, YN,” the handsome man says, putting both hands together in a prayer position, but he doesn’t move his eyes from the TV screen. “I have a sensitive scalp and your shampoo is a god’s send.”

“Stop using it or I’ll cut up your favorite Alexander McQueen’s,” you threaten, pointing a finger in his direction in warning.

Taehyung grimaces at your threat but doesn’t flinch. He knows there isn’t any heat behind your words, plus he had already bought a new bottle of shampoo for you. It was in your room, but you hadn’t seen it yet. He supposes you were too frazzled by your early morning to really check your surroundings.

“Check your desk,” he says, distractedly.

“For?”

“Just go, Juicy,” he tells you, with a roll of his eyes. “Quickly. You wanted me to drive you to work today, didn’t you?”

You glare at him, before disappearing into your room. The two of you have been house-mates since meeting in college, realizing you both were on the same creative arts course. Taehyung decided to blend his love of cars with painting and detail work so once he graduated, he apprenticed at a mechanic’s in Daegu, while you had used your talents and your love for kids to become an art’s teacher for pre-schoolers.

Taehyung’s first store was small but the work he was able to do was interesting enough for a couple weeks, but soon, he realized the quality of clientele he was getting didn’t match what he wanted to do. It turned out that you had the hook-up. One of your loser ex-boyfriend’s was the son of a big mover in the Seoul car distribution scene and he knew a guy who knew a guy who gave Taehyung an in at a cool-ass mechanic’s shop in Seoul.

Once their relationship dissolved some weeks later, which, thank God, both Taehyung and YN had already made their way to Seoul together and they have lived together since. Taehyung thinks there isn’t another soul who knows him as well as you does. You know his likes, his dislikes, his habits, his idiosyncrasies, the way he sits or stands when he’s frustrated or happy, when he needs a break, when he misses his parents, when he wants to go for a smoke - even when he needs a piss. You know it all.

If he wasn’t attracted to men, he probably would have married you by now.

Just as the thought passes through his head, you poke her precious face out from around the corner and murmurs, “Hey, Tae..”

“Just say ‘thank you’ and go,” he cuts her off, spooning in another mouthful of sugary cereal.

You pout a bit but reply, “Sorry for threatening to ruin your things. And thank you for the new bottle.”

He half-shrugs. “I finished it, so I should buy the new one. Now go and shower so I can take you to work. I want to get a couple of things before work for the guys.”

“Nothing says ‘thank you for having me’ like whiskey and pop tarts,” you remark, drily.

He scoffs. “I was only going to get the whiskey this time.”

“Yes, I remember the strawberry pop tarts didn’t go over too well last time,” you tease. “I’ll be quick, I promise.”

He hears you pad upstairs and true to your word, it only takes most of the episode for you to come down, full-dressed in a shapely pair of jeans and a lovely floral blouse that compliments your warm and deep skin tone. Being a foreigner, you draw attention wherever you go, and Taehyung swears, he hasn’t seen anyone as bright as you - and he’s met a whole bunch of people.

“How do I look?”

“I wish my dick responded when I looked at you,” he replies, honestly. “You look amazing.”

She grimaces. “You couldn’t just say I look pretty and leave it at that?”

“‘Pretty’ doesn’t express my full meaning,” he explains, throwing an arm over your shoulder and grabbing his car keys from the bowl near the front door. “Tell me, Ms DJ, what are we listening to today?”

She contemplates for a moment before she answers, “I’m thinking 90s. Throw it all the way back.”

Taehyung nods, just happy to have his best friend leave the house in a good mood. “Whatever you want, Juicy.”

The drive is quick as the traffic is light, considering the time in the morning. Taehyung doesn’t know why she wanted to get to work so early, nor what was in the huge shopping bags that she made him carry, but she was bouncing in her seat with excitement, eyes glittering.

“So, Juicy,” he says, pulling at a red-light and reclining in his seat. “When did you last talk to lover-boy?”

Instantly, YN goes quiet, curling in on herself and Taehyung only has to cast a side-long glance her way to see how shy she became at the mention of her crush.

“He doesn’t stay for long, so we don’t, you know, really talk much,” she explains, her small smile growing into something beautiful and private. “But, Sena talks about him all the time. He’s her favorite person in the whole world, and I really like hearing about him.”

Taehyung blanches at the sappiness in her tone of voice. “You’ve been crushing on this guy for half a year at least, at this point. You’re really not going to tell him how you feel?”

She shakes her head, curls bouncing endearingly. “He’s my student’s dad. It’s a big conflict of interest.”

Taehyung rolls his eyes. “You aren’t his therapist. He’s free to date whoever he wants. So are you.”

“He doesn’t look at me like that, Tae,” she admits, bashfully. “Look at me. Why would he?”

Taehyung practically slams down on the brakes at her admission and turns his body to face his best friend. “We’ve talked about this, a lot, YN. I literally would carve his eyes out if he even blinked at you wrong. Any man, any woman, any person would be lucky to have you in their life. And if he can’t see that, I mean it when I say this - he can choke and die.”

You blink up at him, his chest heaving at his impassioned speech, before you nod. He waits for a beat, just to make sure you have understood how serious he is, before he turns back to the road and continues driving ahead.

“I already told you,” he says, reaching for your hand and using your palm to maneuver the clutch. “You are literal starlight. You are so bright and warm and kind and inviting. Anybody who gets to be around you, me included, is so fortunate.”

“Thanks, Tae,” you mumble, lightly, squeezing his fingers with your own before turning your eyes back out of the window and singing along quietly to the music pouring from the stereo.

“Love you, Juicy,” Taehyung says, as you close the door behind you. He yells, “It’s jjigae night tonight. Don’t forget.”

“Like I could,” you answer. “Love you, Tae. Drive safe. And here.”

You reach into your shopping bag and pull out a little lunch box for him. “I made some of your favorites last night.”

He feels his heart drop to his toes at the cute heart-shaped box. “YN… I don’t think I’ll ever find anyone who loves me like you love me, you know.”

You roll your eyes at his sappy words and answer, “Good, ‘cause I won’t find anyone who’ll love me like you love me either. We’re stuck with each other.”

Taehyung’s answering grin was so bright and earnest that you found yourself thinking about it all the way into work.

Jimin walks into work, headphones pressed into his ears and old-school 90s rhythm and blues pours into his ears. He nudges open the door with his side and freezes at the sight of an unfamiliar back. The guy is facing away from him, seemingly engaged in earnest conversation with Jungkook about something or other, and Jimin finally pulls out a headphone to catch the tail end of the conversation.

“I bought my girl a pair of those for her birthday last year, but she never wears them,” the stranger laments, running a hand through shaggy brown hair. His arms are long and his fingers are pretty. Jimin shakes his head slightly at the thought - he’s never thought of a guy’s hands as pretty before. “She prefers those practical flat shoes with the flowers on them.”

Jungkook grimaces slightly. “Sucks, bro. ‘Cause those shoes are so nice. You got a couple pair to match and everything.”

“We do everything together, so,” the guy mumbles, half-shrugging. “I’m happy to meet another shoe collector, though.”

Jungkook smirks. “Finally. The guys over here only care about hard-toe boots and this one,” he gestures to Jimin who has been stood silent for at least a minute, just watching the two, “only ever wears Chelsea boots.”

The guy follows Jungkook’s line of sight where they land on Jimin’s surprised form, and Jimin feels the air get sucked out of his chest at the sight of the other man. He’s stunning.

He comes across as charismatic, his smile is inviting and friendly but not overbearing, as if he’s holding much of it back. The square of his jaw makes him appear more mature, but his eyes twinkle with youth.

Jimin recovers quickly, holding out his hand and giving his best, most amicable smile that doesn’t express just how frazzled he was at the sight of this stranger.

“So, you’re the new guy?”

The other man nods, and his smile grows until it is perfectly rectangular and his eyes disappear. His hand-shake is firm, and Jimin tries not to go weak in the knees at the sight of how easily his larger hand envelops his smaller one. He says, “Call me Taehyung.”

Jimin pulls away and shoves his hand in his pocket to hide the trembling, and asks, lightly, “How old are you?”

“24,” he answers. “December.”

“Me too,” Jimin replies. “October.”

He contemplates for a minute before he asks, “I should call you Hyung from now on, then, right?”

“If you want,” Jimin answers, a shiver climbing his back at the respectful term. He doesn’t know what’s happening to him, but he feels all out of sorts just seeing this guy. He knows he likes men, but what the fuck is he supposed to do with all this? Jimin isn’t even sure if he is going to be able to function today. “I’m gonna go give the donuts to Namjoon-hyung. He’ll complain otherwise. Jungkook, you got this, right?”

The youngest nods, his long hair pushed back with a thin black headband swishing with the motion. “Sure thing, Hyung. Gimme one of those before you go.”

Jimin swats the tattooed hand that moves to try and swipe a donut for himself and the younger man rears back, giving his best hurt puppy look. Jimin’s lip curls up in distaste but he holds the bag out, with a roll of his eyes. “One, Jungkook. One.”

The long-haired manufacturing engineer makes a gleeful noise and digs into the bag, pulling out the lemon-flavored donut. Once he moves out of the way, Jimin offers the bag to the other man and he says, kindly, “You too, Taehyung.”

“Thanks, Hyung,” the puppy-like man says, reaching into the bag and pulling out a purple and blue donut with shimmery glitter. “It’s pretty.”

The way he says it, his eyes lingering on Jimin’s face for a beat too long, before he bites into the donut and he gives the shorter man a playful wink, turning back to Jungkook to continue their conversation.

Jimin walks into Namjoon’s office, and he braces himself by leaning against the door, closing his eyes and letting out a long heavy gust of breath.

“Are those my donuts?”

Jimin nods, and Namjoon pads over, excitedly, to grab them from him and he digs into the bag.

“You met the new guy, right? Taehyung?”

Jimin nods again, words escaping him.

Namjoon eyes Jimin, curiously. “What’s eating you?”

“Nothing,” he replies. “But I wish he was.”

Namjoon’s eyes widen around his mouthful of cream and sweet batter. “Is this going to be an issue?”

Jimin shakes his head, carding a hand through his dark locks. “I can separate business from pleasure, Joon. I’m just saying: he’s hot like burning.”

Namjoon snorts. “He is cute. And he’s friendly to boot. He brought everyone a bottle of whiskey.”

“Jungkook doesn’t like whiskey,” Jimin comments.

“He wouldn’t admit to that, though,” Namjoon replies, smirking lightly. “He’s too proud for all of that.”

Namjoon puts his hand on the back of Jimin’s neck, leading him out of the room and back out into the open area. He says, to the rest of the boys, “We’ve got the four-man detail coming in in an hour. The pick-up in the day after tomorrow. The parts are coming in in the morning, but all we need to do today is break it down, deep clean and paint the parts that we do have.”

Jungkook sits up straighter. “I’ve got the deep clean.”

Taehyung smiles a bit. “Can I take the painting part?”

Namjoon nods. “Jimin, are you okay with watching over him this time around, just so he knows how we do it here?”

Jimin feels himself nod, trying hard to avoid Taehyung’s curious gaze, keeping his eyes fixed on Namjoon’s face. Their boss squeezes Jimin’s neck, warmly, and says, “Good. Hoseok said he’ll swing by later to help Yoongi with the break-down, before Yoongi leaves to go pick up Sena.”

Taehyung’s face twists a bit, distantly recognizing the name, but he shakes it off once Jungkook taps him on the chest to gain his attention.

“I’ll show you around the shop,” the maknae says, grabbing a spare loose jacket with the company logo printed on the breast pocket. “Wear this whenever customers come in and take it off when you go outside for a smoke break.”

“I don’t smoke,” he replies. “My girl doesn’t like the smell.”

It was a little disingenuous of him to represent YN as his ‘girl’, knowing the implications suggest that they are in a love relationship, but for all intents and purposes, you were his girl - his best friend, his girl, his person, his Juicy. All that and more.

“Good. I hate it, too,” the long-haired man says, walking into a wide back area with a bunch of cars in various stages of disrepair. “This is where we work our magic.”

He flicks a light and it takes a moment for the flickering lights overhead to come to life.

Jungkook rattles off, a bored tone in his voice, “Left side are western models, right side are Korean. Over here is where we log customer information, that is where we put any damaged parts that the Big Boss is going to want to sell for scraps. We don’t usually get cars that are that damaged, but still, be careful. Always wear appropriate protective gear. If you get hurt on-site, you’re entitled to getting your hospital fees covered, but still, it puts you out of work and it’s annoying to have to clean up the blood after.”

Taehyung covertly rolls his eyes, already knowing these rules. He isn’t as wet behind the ears as this guy seems to presume, but he lets him do his job of introducing him to his new environment. He shrugs on the jacket and fixes his collar as Jungkook shows him all of the equipment, hung on walls and hidden in locked crates. The equipment isn’t complex, but it is expansive and so there was a lot of information to take in.

Taehyung can’t wait to tell you all about it.

He wonders how your day is going, and if you would tell him about whatever adventures you had with your students. He was used to coming home and seeing paint-stained clothes in the hamper or your own easels filled with pretty pictures that you had made with your kids’ help. You loved creating art with your students, and he loves seeing you happy, so he often paid for the paint supplies and other utensils that you used in your classes.

“Are you listening?”

Taehyung blinks and focuses his eyes on the apparently-miffed man in front of him. “Sure, my bad. Keep going.”

He tries his hardest to focus on the words coming out of the other man’s mouth, and he spent the next couple of hours getting acclimatized to his new work place. When the cars arrived, each of the men become quiet and focused on their work. He was introduced to Hoseok, a brown-haired bright man with a sharp jawline and a kind smile consistently on his face, and Yoongi, a shorter, reserved man with fluffy brown hair and a delicate, measured way of speaking.

Something about the second man struck him as familiar but as soon as the thought comes to his mind, it disappears as he becomes more intrigued by the pretty brunet who avoids being alone with him.

Park Jimin.

- end -

(1), (2), (3), (4), (5)

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kmgoogiemin · 3 years

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I know you might be tired of the tk discourse at this point (so feel free to ignore this ask if you want) but I just wanted to add my two cents. it's nothing new, but basically I feel like people who think taekook is real are missing something pretty big and obvious. taekook have a cute friendship. they care for each other, love each other, have similar personalities to an extent, get along well, have/had some mutual interests. however they display a lack of emotional connection that, conversely, you can find in jikook, and that the average person would expect from a romantic couple. this isn't to diminish taekook's friendship, it's simply what is observable. when jungkook is in distress, he seeks comfort in jimin, not taehyung. he has a very noticeable tendency to gravitate towards jimin (from focusing almost exclusively on him for a whole ot7 vlive to turning his whole body to him while jimin is speaking during a concert, all with gigantic heart eyes), especially when he seems nervous or anxious. when jungkook is hurt, it's jimin that stays behind with him, not taehyung. it's jikook, not taekook, that describe themselves/each other in terms that highlight their special connection: you're me I'm you, he's my catalyist, he's the person who understands me the best, I have a connection with him both on and off stage. it's jikook, not teakook, that notoriously spend an usual amount of time together off screen, sometimes in somewhat questionable situations (alone together at 4am on jungkook's birthday? ok). jungkook took jimin, not any other member, on a private trip in their free time; jimin went back to sk in the middle of his travelling just in time to celebrate jungkook's birthday, not any other member's. jungkook was going to jimin's room, not taehyung's, three times a day for hours when they were in LA. we also know jikook confide in each other and tell each other everything (remember the "the truth I've never told jimin" "then it's obviously not me" incident?); but we've never got the impression taekook do the same, on the contrary jungkook has mentioned taehyung is the only member he hasn't had heart-to-heart conversations with. it's always jikook that tend to encourage and support each other, especially about things they know the other is insecure about; note that that yes, all of bts do that with each other, but jikook always go the extra mile, always do something more, to make the other feel appreciated. it's always jikook that seem to be aware of what the other has been up to at any time, while taehyung is surprised to learn jungkook has been engaging in a certain activity lately, or has recently posted a cover on twitter, which he had no idea about. and so on. you often go on about how "you've never seen any pairing in bts do even 20% of what jikook do" and you're absolutely right, because it's not just wild stuff like hickeys and public ear sucking, it's a lot of small and big things that are right there for everyone to see and that point to a depth in their relationship that goes clearly beyond "besties" (not that the fandom acknowledges that they're good friends to start with, but, you know) and that make no sense if you think taekook are dating each other. because in this scenario, you would expect the alleged couple - taekook - to exhibit precisely these behaviours, yet they don't, while another pairing - jikook - does. why don't these things happen with taekook? why do they happen only with jikook? again, it's not to dismiss taekook's bond. it's a nice friendship, but it's very similar to most friendships in bts. from a "jikook is real" point of view, taekook (and even vmin, but that's a different beast) makes perfect sense. from a "taekook is real" point of view, jikook would be absolutely unacceptable for any self-respecting individual in a relationship. it's not a matter of taekook have done this and said that. it's a matter of there being a very specific, very visible difference between jikook and all the other pairings (not just teakook, since we're at it) in the group. and you know they can see

that, that's why they come up with all their conspiracy theories as to why taekook *can't* act like this. they know that if taekook were dating, they would act in a certain way (basically the way jikook act), but they don't, so the shippers have to find an explanation for that. it's easier to believe they aren't allowed to act like a couple rather then admitting they simply don't act like a couple because they aren't a couple.

— i’ve edited the answer to have a more thorough explanation because i absolutely do no want this to be used as any usage of hatred or disrespecting any bond, because that absolutely is not the case —

anon wanted me to add this at the top to indicate they did not mean there was a lack of emotional connection between them, but in a romantic sense, because of course they have an emotional connection through their friendship, that’s absolutely undeniable

i feel like i’ve lost my ability over the years to provide well thought out explanations because i’ve had to do it so many times that i just get bored now, but seeing it written out like that is well put in certain parts especially about the reasonings to believe Jikook are a couple but i have some disagreements with other parts

I also want to first add that us believing Taekook aren’t romantically involved does not dismiss their friendship at all, but as soon as you provide actual reasonings and facts for why Taekook are not a couple you automatically get called an anti, when that’s not the case at all. Tae and Jungkook do have such an amazing friendship and we have been so fortunate to have watch it develop and even re develop again, however they are so disrespected by the people who say they love them but can’t accept their actual friendship, anything they do gets over analysed, they have so many very real beautiful quotes about their friendship but they get ignored for all the things which have been mistranslated.

There is one thing I absolutely want to counteract and that was the “emotional connection” point, I do believe all pairings have emotional connection and that as well of course is the case with Taekook, especially within the past couple of years, as they’ve worked through past their soop talk, but even still then they were still close they just didn’t have a one to one in that time, but that didn’t dismiss their closeness like that, of course each paring have different levels of closeness but I don’t think it would be fair to say they don’t have any emotional closeness because that’s just not true. They have still been very close friends for 10 years and they have grown up together so there are things in their friendship which only they have together just by growing up so close. They still have always been so so close, and that also means emotionally close.

They could use quotes like:

“my family is jungkook”

“helped me break out of my shell”

“in a way we were like partners in crime”

but rather than use these, they focus on ones which have been proven to be mistranslations or they overanalyse them quotes and make them all into romantic statements, their friendship gets so disrespected because they want it to be something more than that so they ignore what they actually have because they want more.

at the end of the day, every friendship and bond within an friendship group will all have different levels of closeness, connection etc and that is perfectly perfectly normal, and what we see in jikook in constant behaviour of them always been the first person to be with one another in a time of need and support, and that would make perfect sense if they are what we believe a romantic couple, but having two people being in a romantic relationship absolutely does not discredit all their other friendships, it’s just a different type of bond.

You can’t compare bonds because they are all so different and unique, and that’s what makes them all so special. But what you can do is watch reality and come to conclusions based on that, and I think what this anon was trying to say is that for years there have been so many things which only occur within Jikooks relationship and those are the reasons which make us believe in them as a couple

the anon who sent the post wanted to clarify this, and of course, if you believe two people are romantically involved then you will believe they have a different type of connection, but it once again does not dismiss any type of connection, bond, friendship that other pairings have, there absolutely is no way to dismiss any pairings in bts because they are all so insanely close, and that’s what makes BTS so special, nothing is fake, nothing is for camera, nothing is played up, it is all very real friendships and that’s why they’ve been able to be so open and honest with us for all these years.

#jikook #jimin x jungkook #kookmin #jkjm

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akookminsupporter · 3 years

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I think it’s interesting that despite how basically everyone like to bark fanservice about jikook they basically don’t have a single actual ~fanservice moment during the concerts even though they could and maybe even should have had a few.

I’m talking about things like when they sing directly to the camera in, I think, Fire, where they often hang off of each other and sing together but when JK hands over to Jimin they just don’t do that.

Same for LGO where they stop and and pose for pics that are displayed by the fake projector in the background. Jikook start the song and are alone on stage, it would make perfect sense for them to pose for a picture together to show what the projector does but they don’t.

Same goes for when they kneel down to sing directly to the camera that is also a moment meant for them to gather around and act cute. The closest we got there was Jimin dancing behind Jungkook for a moment which hardly counts.

(I’m not saying that these cute interactions aren’t also genuine but they are, unlike two members talking on the fringes of the stage, written into the basic script of the concert.)

Jikook’s recurring moments like Jimin slapping (or trying to) Jungkook’s chest in DNA happens on the fringes of the choreo and is clearly just an in joke between the two of them. While Jungkook and Tae making faces of some kind behind Jimin also during DNA is meant for the big screen because they know he’s the camera focus at that time.

Jimin hyping Jungkook during BWL might count because Jungkook is the camera focus but he doesn’t always do it and he’s generally out of frame (but of course in full view of the audience) when he does. Jimin generally gets down on his knees for someone during that segment, it’s not always Jungkook. In LA I think it was a vmin thing.

Another example is that they don’t do their Dynamite na-na-na thing. They don’t do the entire choreo but they still definitely could sing that part to each other and do something fun with it like they did for muster.

TL!DR Fanservice couple actually does the least when it comes to fanservice. More fake news at eleven.

OPINIONS.

#anon #ask #JMJK #fandom #ships #bts

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kanmom51 · 3 years

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Jungkook has been literally screaming about his love for Jimin since the past four years and yet no one listens. Now, after Jimin's reciprocation/confession, to even think that there is nothing between them is equal to being as blind and emotionless as a bat! Excuse my language but seriously what the hell is happening with this world! Anyone who still can't see their love doesn't deserve to be loved in their lives. Not even a teaspoon of love.

But anon, two men can't possibly love each other. No way, no where, no how nah.

This is me being super sarcastic and kind of angry in case you are reading this and thinking I am serious.

I'd say the nay sayers are split into a few groups:

Those that want either JK or JM for their own fantasy ship.

Those that want either JK or JM for their own fantasy.

Those that are holier than thou and see themselves taking the moral high ground - "it's the members private lives, we should only enjoy their music", but at the same time "they are all best friends, they are like brothers".

So, sometimes I also think that these holier than thous are also in the next group, which is the homophobic, "god forbid, how dare you think there could be a gay couple in BTS?" group.

All of the above groups wear an especially tainted, made for them, brand of goggles and ear plugs, those that keep out anything JK or JM say or do to send us their message, to show us their truth.

GCFT - not romantic, just a bro thing, 2 friends travel vlog. Perhaps I should send them to Adam Hattan's vlogs to see the difference between GCFT and his vlogs with Gary C (2 very good gay friends travelling together).

GCFS - no hidden message. "What's the matter with you delusional Jikook's? This was BTS official content." Yeah, filmed and edited by JK, with JM dominating screen time and let's us forget "I don't lie no more, I don't wanna hide no more..."

RB - Nothing to see here, just a chin touching an ear. Yeah, ok.

JK's tattoos - not even going there. All I will say is that whichever way you want to look at it there is a big ass capital J on JK's ring finger, which happens to be sitting over a capital M (cough JM cough).

And let's not forget everything JM said, because that means absolutely nothing: knowing how loud JK snores, how long his showers are to the minute, his alarm clock sound, which he keeps changing, being with JK at 4 am on the eve of his birthday (after dancing around this and avoiding saying it in a prior live), waking up and seeing Junkookie is what makes him happy, The bubble gum talk...

All mean nothing. "You guys are delusional, they all live together in the dorms, so of course JM will know all of that", and so forth explanations, write offs.

They all live together. Yeah, and we are the ones living in delusions.

Oh, and there's more...

Forget about how they look at each other. How the way they touch each other is just different to they way they interact with the others. How they turn to each other. How JM is JK's safe place, his safe haven, his anchor. JM calling JK his toy. Being night time buddies. JK calling JM handsome, sexy, cute. JK calling JM his catalyst. JM calling JK every single compliment you can think of under the sun, and the list can just go on and on and on.

And the biggest elephant in the room possible - their bond being totally ignored by the fandom.

These are two young men that have shown and said in ever so many words just how close they are, and yet their bond is overlooked time and time again by the fandom. Vmin are soulmates. Jinkook and Hopekook are brothers. Jikook are nada, nichts, kalam fadi, nothing, non existent.

Funny how what seems to be the strongest bond within the group is also the one to be ignored.

I wonder why that is. Not really. I know why that is.

#ask #anon #Jikook are real #Jikook #Kookmin

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stormblessed95 · 3 years

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So random question but why do you think taekookers attack jikookers more than they attack taejin shippers??? Because those two have done so many questionable things. And I don't ship them as a real couple cause I just don't see it but even they have a heck of a lot more "proof" than taekook do.

Do you think it's like subconsciously they know jikook probably might be a thing but taejin probably aren't? Cause idk what the other excuses might be. I've seen taejin content popping up all over Twitter and no taekookers swarming to quote tweet and debunk like they do jikook even though the ship contains one half of their ship. And even though taejin are all over each other. I think they've kissed on the cheeks and hands like 3 times. Where is the taekook outrage?? I'm so curious.

Honestly, I think it's simply that they don't view Jin as a threat to their fantasy. That or maybe it's the fact that none of them seem to actually know who Jin is since they continually confuse him with either JK or Tae and use those moments as taekook ones? 🤷🏻‍♀️ because that happens way too much

All of these photos were TaeJin. And all of them went viral from taekookers thinking it was JK. Not to mention the viral "taekook hug" photo that was actually just Tae and a backup dancer.

TaeJin really just out here Wildin though.... so soft with each other and all the damn kisses they give each other? No, I also don't see romance there personally, but like if we are picking a ship that is more likely... 👀

They also don't seem to have as many problems with Vmin moments. I truly do not get it. Because vmin really be out here just...

And honestly sometimes Vmin makes me raise my own eyebrows lol how it doesn't ruffle the sheeps feathers baffles me. This one especially lmao honestly but no I don't think there is anything romantic between vmin either.

Plus Tae has gone on record saying he likes Jimin the most and that Jin hyung is his favorite. Literally my only explanation is that they ALSO see the possibility of something more with Jikook and so they desperately feel the need to explain it away. Jikook scares them because I guess they also have a hard time not seeing the chemistry between them and it threatens their fantasy more then the others.

Idk. It makes no sense. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tkkrs hating Jimin baffles me considering how much both sides of their ship are completely fond of, endeared by and love him more than anyone.

And here where they were both smiling huge at Watching Jimin perform and get his jacket stuck on NYE lol both trying to stare at the little phone screen at the same time to keep watching

Vminkook superior honestly. Love the heck outta those 3

#kookmin #i dont understand the sheep either we should really just stop trying #its never going to make sense

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dreamcatcherjiah · 3 years

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JAMAIS VU | TEASER 2

Namjoon & A-Young

Kim Moon-Jae - Two years old

He was born in September, just like his dad and Jungkook

Namjoon had wanted to become a dad so bad, he seamlessly welcomed his role and made it look easy, the way he took care of his little boy

Ever since he was a newborn, Namjoon would take him to the studio and put him to sleep in his little Moses basket while he worked

it wasn't long before Joon discovered he liked Mono and he tended to leave his phone next to his song with the playlist playing while he worked on something else

Jungkook dotes on the boy

literally won’t put him down

from the day he was born, JK would just look at him while he slept with his big doe eyes, he sometimes sings to the baby too

Moon-Jae is a very calm baby, even in his terrible twos

he’s happy with just sitting with his toys and looking at his mom while she moves around the house

he started babbling when he was barely six months old

when he said his first word, A-Young was busy with Jimin and Tae’s sons and he screamed EOMMA at the top of his little lungs

we could say he is a bit of a mom and dad boy

he loves laying in Namjoon’s chest while he reads his bedtime story

(most of the time they both fall asleep together and A-Young finds them in the nursery chair knocked out)

He’s the closest in age to Chimae and Sangwoo, but he’s a little jealous that his cousins can do things that he is not allowed because he’s younger

he can drink from a glass, the baby cup is for BABIES

so he just gravitates towards Nabi, Sangwoo’s older sister

Jin & Yura

Kim Yoojin & Kim Yoosun (Twins) - Seven years old

after saying time and time again that they were okay with only one child twins came along

Jin would be lying if he said he wasn't thrilled but it was scary at first

he was the first one of the seven to become a dad, to twins no less, might scare everyone

but when his baby girl Yoojin was born and, ten minutes later, he held his boy Yoosun, he just knew he would do anything for them

they were born in the middle of August, much to Yura’s relief, if she had had to carry them for longer she would have cried

the boys loved how, since it was so hot that summer, Jin had them in their crib in diapers

Yoongi adored looking at them cuddle together and caress their little arms and tummies

he loved their smooth baby skin

as they grew up, Yoosun became a really bright bean, a people’s little person while his sister became more like her mom, calm and with very intelligent eyes

they both love their parents equally but each one gravitates towards either Jin (Yoojin) or Yura (Yoosun)

since they’re the oldest of the bangtan babies, they like to take care of their small cousins

in their seven years of life, they have spent a total of a week apart and they don't want to try that again

like EVER

NEVER EVER AGAIN

Yoongi & Hyejin

Min Ara - Six months old

Yoongi and Hyejin waited a few years to try for a baby after they got married

then baby Are came along

when they told the boys and their families they were pregnant a lot of people cried

they had seen how deeply Yoongi loved all his nephews and nieces, how his face filled with adoration when he held them

they respected his and Hyejin’s wish to wait to start a family, but everyone wanted him to become a father deep down

Ara was born in January and his uncles Jimin, Hoseok and Namjoon, who only had boys, bought her the pinkiest fluffiest coats they could find

for a couple of months, the baby looked like she was drowning in pink furs

now that she’s six months old, she sleeps through the night and she is just at that age where she doesn't understand when she has a sleepover with her cousins

Jin absolutely adores Ara

after his little-not-so-little Yoojin, Ara is the apple of his eye, and it is strange the day he doesn't visit Genius Lab too see his little niece

either that or he calls Hyejin non-stop when they have a schedule to coo at the baby

you would think Namjoon is not allowed to hold the baby, but nothing further from the truth

Yoongi trust him with his life when it comes to his daughter

the first time she smiled, Joon was holding her to his chest and moving her little hand to say hi to her dad

Yoongi cried a little that day

Hoseok & Haneul

Jung Hyuk-Jae - Four years old

are we even surprised this boy is the happiest little boy on earth

he was born in November, a year after his parents got married

he was the first boy to be born after Yoosun and his cousin was so happy to finally be a hyung

his eyes were always open, inquisitive and taking everything in the world in

his mom loved strapping him to her chest and dance around the house while the two were alone, the baby moving his little legs and waving his little fists around

Hoseok would return home most days to a similar picture, feeling energised after a long day only by looking at them

Hyuk-Jae can't fall asleep without his parents caressing his chest and arms

(are we reminded of someone else)

when he feels tired, he nests into Hoseok’s chest and caresses his lips with his little finger, that’s how his dad knows he’s ready for bed

he loves drawing with his cousins, and loves teaching Moon-Jae all the letters that he has learnt in kindergarten

when he grows up he wants Uncle Yoongi to show him how to make music and become a rapper just like his dad

when he comes from kinder, he doesn't let go of his mom for a little while, needing to spend a little quiet time so he’s ready to play with his dad when he comes home

Jimin & Kae-Hwa

Park Chimae - Three years old

Chimae was born two weeks before Sangwoo, Tae’s son, in May

their wives tease them constantly about this, asking if they were so sneaky they planned to have children at the same time so they could be vmin 2.0

they deny it (even if they were so happy when they told each other they were having babies at the same time oooops)

Chimae is the sweetest little boy

he is just like his dad, all fluffy cheeks, smily eyes and the happiest giggle in the world

even if him and Sangwoo are not blood brothers, Jin likes to tease their fathers telling them that the babies are even closer than his twins

good luck separating them, boys

Chim ADORES his parents and his uncle Joon, always gravitating to them in a loud room, seeking comfort and warmth to cuddle

oh yeah, he’s a cuddle bug, doing that little thing, rubbing his cheek against his uncle Joon’s chest and nesting against him

he loves falling asleep between his mom and dad, holding one of their fingers in each tiny fist and feeling them close

his mom loves to buy diminutive versions of Jimin’s outfits to have Chim dress like him

they would both enter the studio hand in hand, sporting identical Chanel jumpers, jeans and Gucci sunglasses and no one would bat an eyelid

the poor thing has two left feet, but that doesn't stop him copying his dad’s moves to the best of his abilities

Taehyung & Iseul

Kim Nabi - Five years old

now, when Tae said he wanted a big family he wasn't joking

he and his wife were pregnant within a month of their wedding

Nabi was born in February, a few days after her uncle Hobi, which guaranteed huge birthday parties when she got old enough

she wanted a princesses-themed birthday party, uncle Hobi got her the dresses and was the first one there, dressed as Elsa from Frozen

she was a fussy baby, which didn't sit well with her mom, but her dad was there at all times

his insomnia actually got better once he matched his sleeping schedule with his baby’s

in a good night she would wake up maybe a couple of times, and there was Tae, bottle at the ready, singing lullabies for his little girl in his deep voice

in a bad night, well, let’s just say Tae was used to functioning on little to no sleep

even if she is the closest with Yoojin, her best friend is her cousin Nari

she insists it was fate (not her mom’s intentional choosing) that their names match so well

she has always had a soft spot for Moon-Jae and you can often find them both playing together when Chimae and Sangwoo run off somewhere to stir trouble

Kim Sangwoo - Three years old

two years after Nabi was born, just when she was starting to pick up a normal sleeping schedule, Iseul found out she was pregnant with Sangwoo

she was expecting another difficult baby and she couldn't be happier to have been wrong (at the beginning, lol)

he was quiet and happy

he loved just lying there between his sister and Chimae, babbling away

The two boys seemed stuck at the hip, if you so much as lifted one to change his diaper, the other would scream his little lungs out

then he started crawling and OH BOY

he found out that he could see Chimae from his dad phone in the screen so he started sneakily trying to find it to call his best friend... he was only eighteen months old

where Chimae was calm, Sangwoo compensated being an active little firecracker

if you wanted to know where the two were, you just had to wait until Chimae pulled your jean leg because he thought Sangwoo was doing something dangerous

most times those dangerous things were stealing cookies from the kitchen cabinet, but our Chimae here is an innocent little angel

Jungkook & Mi-Hi

Jeon Jina - newborn

Jungkook and Mi-Hi were still young when they got married, so it made sense to wait

besides, if an occasional burst of baby fever struck, either one of them could just call any of the other parents and offer to babysit

it stayed like that for almost six years, both Kookie and Mi-Hi being the fun aunt and uncle who bought the children candy, took them on fun rides to the park or to the beach

they were each child’s first time on Disneyland

well, it lasted until Namjoon and A-Young had Moon-Jae

Jungkook went mental for the child, he wouldn't know how to explain what went through him, but he just couldn't put the baby down

he loved all his nieces and nephews equally, but just looking at his hyung’s baby moon...

he would come home only talking about babies, showing Mi-Hi the countless pictures he had taken of Moon-Jae

she would sense that characteristic baby smell in his clothes when she hugged him

it reached a point when both of them sat down and admitted to each other how badly they wanted to start a family

it took them a while, but after nearly a year and a half, they were happily announcing they were expecting a little girl

Jina, being the youngest of the family, has everyone wrapped around her little finger

it would be difficult to tell which of her uncles is more whipped for her, Hoseok going so far as to admitting to JK that after spending so much time with the little girl, he wanted to talk to Haneul about trying for a girl

it is still way too soon to tell who she takes after, but what’s for sure is that she got her dad’s doe eyes

Permanent taglist: @preciouschimine @forget-me-notforever @annywaa @alpacaparkaseok @bangtan-madi

#castlebangtan #bangtanarmynet #hyunglinenetwork #bangtan dad au #bts dad au #bts headcanons #bts dad headcanons #jamais vu teaser 2 #dreamcatcherjiah #namjoon headcanons #jin headcanons #yoongi headcanons #hoseok headcanons #jimin headcanons #taehyung headcanons #jungkook headcanons

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thoughts-on-bangtan · 3 years

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Let’s talk: The importance of curating your space and the cyclical life of ships

by Admin 1

From anon: Hi! I'm a new Army/vminie (4 months) and I have a (maybe dumb) question... When I joined, I saw so many j*/k*okers analysing every small moment between jk and jm and these ppl were everywhere and I couldn't avoid seeing j*/k*ok ship content. However, the past two weeks or so it seems to have shifted and suddenly I see t*e/k*ok ship content everywhere. I wonder, is this shifting a normal occurence? And how do I get rid of these ship contents in spaces that are supposed to be free of these 2 ships

Having been around for quite some time, I’ve come to think of the big ships as something very akin to extremely sensitive seismometers. Instead of detecting even the smallest movement or noise in relation to earthquakes or volcanic activity, these ship seismometers react to any and all activity (as in any kind of “moments” or what they perceive as such) in very “volatile” manners, for a lack of better words.

What do I mean by that?

Like you said, there was a long phase after Dynamite came out where the mood had shifted toward J*k*ok because we got more content in which we could see those two interact, even if later on we also got content from the same sets and time in which both members involved were seen interacting with other members, but that didn’t matter. So, obviously, shippers took this as grand sign, the seismometer drawing numbers like ones you’d get when you have an extreme earthquake, but in this case it was a positive thing. Every new “moment” or anything they perceived as such caused big reactions, loud enough to even reach far beyond their space and instead was heard also in general ARMY spaces or those of other shippers etc. But, there’s also the opposite effect, as in, volatile reactions, or big reactions, when there are several pieces of content one after the other where said ship doesn’t interact or doesn’t have any “moments”. In cases like that euphoria quickly shifts into “insecurity” (though they would never admit to that) and worry, occasionally also defensiveness and attacks.

Imagine a scenario like this: lets say we get five Bangtan B*mbs. The first one has main ship A interact, the next one doesn’t have either of the two ships, the third one was has main ship B interact, as well as in video four and five.

Those who were happy with the first video will be casual/neutral about the second one, but as they get the third, fourth and fifth, the seismometer for them inevitably turns from extremely positive to extremely negative. While for B it’s the exact opposite, going from negative to extremely positive with YT and sns exploding with announcements of “B ships is back” or “B are in love after all, BH has freed them” or anything along those lines.

What I’m trying to say is that yes, this is normal. The big ships and their shippers lead a very cyclical life, which also means they never quite “disappear” either. They are always there, waiting, and then jump on any piece of a moment they get with big reactions, and in the time where they have nothing, chances are the toxic part of their community will go into attack mode instead, like that will change anything at all. We’ve seen other ships come and go, nearly disappear just to have some kind of revival months or even years later, or “new” ships win the favor of the masses. There are also a few ships that have steadily existed for most of the past eight years without any volatile shifts or changes, but those are generally the quieter ones ignored or actively campaigned against/discredited ones by the big ships and their shippers.

Hyung line ships are generally seen as more “niche”/overlooked, or just some background extras for fanfics or something ML shippers enjoy since the aren’t an active “threat”, like Namjoon x Yoongi or Yoongi x Hobi which have been around forever and I don’t think I’ve ever really seen (or heard about) anyone have fights about them or even fights between those two camps, since most shippers have an almost laser like focus on the maknaes and especially JK.

The funny thing in all of this, if you can even call it that, is that none of it really depends on the members themselves. In all this time they haven’t changed their behavior much at all, their bonds haven’t drastically or dramatically changed, and certain members didn’t magically go from “hating” each other to suddenly becoming couples over night or vise versa. It’s all shipper interpretations, theories and conspiracies being layered on top of what people see on screen to make things more “interesting”, even if that means actively going against what the members have said themselves and who the members are, as in their personalities but also in relation to each other.

And this brings me to my next point, the importance of curating your own space.

Here it’s important to know what kind of a TL or ARMY sns experience do you want. Do you want to just focus on your bias with a side of OT7 with gifs and pictures and nothing else? Do you want to have more of an eye on how BTS is doing on the charts? Have more discourse and discussions on the TL you can follow or actively participate in? Or do you want a mix of it all?

Personally I’m very picky in who I follow and what kind of content I add to my TL by following an account. Generally I think it’s important to check every account you consider following to make sure they aren’t one of the following things: akgae, manti, solo stan, toxic shipper, or a victimizing sheep. While I do follow a number of ship centric accounts, because I like seeing vmin and namjin on my TL, I find it extremely important to follow several trustworthy ARMY translators as well as a number of non-ship centric ARMY accounts that just focus on Bangtan as a whole.

The block button is your friend. I know it might seem drastic or mean to just block random people, but in the long run you will be thankful for it since it will keep toxic content away from your space, regardless if toxic in a solo stan sense or a ship one. If you’re on twt you can also mute certain words and # so they don’t show up on your TL either, make use of that if you feel a need for it. Eventually though the algorithm learns what you gravitate toward, and if you follow a well curated number of accounts, the things you don’t want to see simply won’t appear where you can see them.

On YT, as far as I’m aware, in the recommended section you can mark videos you don’t like as not being interested in them and even mark whole channels as something you don’t want to have recommended to you. Since I don’t watch any ship related videos, I never get any recommended to me despite watching BTS videos (though I mostly stick to their official accounts and wherever else they performed).

It’s important to create a space in which you just see the content you want, but still pay attention to not just bury yourself in a ship bubble since that can be a slippers slope and you might end up accidentally turning yourself toxic on accident, too sure of your thoughts and end up growing resentful moments where a member of your ship interacts with someone else in the group. That’s when you know you’ve gone several steps to far, since above all else, we are ARMY before we are vminnies or namjinists or anything else. We can love our chosen duo, we can love our bias(es), but we should always listen to what the members have to say and trust them. After all Tae (and the other members) has asked us several times to love all seven, so that’s what I do. They are all incredibly lovable, and their bonds with each other all precious and wonderful in their own ways and worthy of appreciation, so I don’t understand those who feel hatred against any of them.

Curate your space but always keep a healthy mix of general ARMY and ship content, if you are someone who partakes in shiperverse activities, and stay as far away as possible from manipulative YT videos and accounts with toxic narratives and motives.

From anon: hey! read your new post re: curating your own space. don't know if you'll answer this, but is there any "must follow" accounts on twt (for translations, vmin, and bts in general) that you can recommend? I'm new to the site and made an account for bangtan only, but there's just so much going on there that it can get confusing. Also found out that there are many troll accs, fake 'nice' accs, too much drama accs etc that can give you a bad experience.

Here’s a large selection of translators and a smaller selection of other accounts that I think are worth following, especially BTSChartData. Also, whatever you do, don’t follow the BTS ARMY twt account with 4M+ followers or however many they might have at this point.

I’d also be very weary of member specific fanbases and chart accounts since they are known as perfect breeding grounds for solos, akgae and mantis, unfortunately, and some have been exposed for being akgae themselves.

#BTS #vmin #namjin

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roo-bastmoon · 2 years

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tae especially pushes taekook, stating that he'll go with jk to get a tattoo and after jk's artist posts his, posts a drawing on his arm of a "tattoo" lmao. the desperation. and jk doesn't help by calling tae the most attractive either. imagine actually being jimin and seeing your supposed bff trying to feed his shippers and your bf saying that you're not the most attractive person he's ever seen.

Okay, let's not shade a member and accuse them of desperation, but yes, to your point, I have a couple thoughts here around Taekookery this year:

Tae has heavily implied lots of closeness with JK this year. Insta posts. Mentioning gaming together online all night. Fortune teller / fire-and-water comments. Tae gave him that blue coat he wore in the Vlive, I think he said... Lots of flirty interactions on the stage. And he's always touching JK. (JK 99% of the time passively receives those touches, but he IS receptive of them--it's not unwanted or overbearing; Tae is not a creep.) In and of themselves, these are just cute moments. In the context of ship wars, it seems very odd to work fans up with that stuff, right after telling fans to get out of their imaginations. He also hinted in the LA Vlive of a secret song he did with JK (all a joke?) and hinted at a member 7 tattoo (not real)... I don't understand his thought processes when he does stuff like this. I don't know why he pretends to play the trumpet to that one recorded song in that Vlive, either. Does he enjoy working fans up with pranks but then never admitting it's a prank? Likely. I think Tae loves attention. Don't all actors? I will say he has plenty of touchy-feely shippy moments with Jin and Hobi too, and sometimes Yoongi and Joon. Tae is tactile. Like, he's kissed Jin TWICE this year. I don't think he's dating Jin. I hate to accuse any member of fan service, but they are born performers. I think Tae and JK are good friends who have fun together. But I don't think they are super duper stuck-at-the-hip close. I don't think they are each other's emergency contacts. I'm not sure why Tae mentions him quite so much, pushes Taekook quite so much. Maybe he just feels most at home with JK. (He LOOKS most at home with Jimin, I will say. For a long time, it looked like Tae had a bit of a deep crush on Jimin and I think Jikook might have made him feel awkward and left out a bit, in the beginning.)

To be fair, JK chose to answer a question during a live about Tae's looks, and he rambled on and basically said "I will admit it... he is very attractive." And that's true. While Tae is not MY definition of super duper off-the-charts attractive (for ME), he is objectively beautiful. (Side note: I think Tae's most attractive qualities are how he acts around children and his impeccable taste in music. Goddamn, that gets me hot. I digress.) Have you noticed that JK's lives often hint at really big things but actually have very little substance... or rather, the details he reveals are not conclusive proof of anything? He'll say Jimin is his. Ask him, and he'll say Tae is his, too. If too much gets revealed, he'll qualify it with a flimsy excuse. He always weaves in plausible deniability.

From what I'm seeing, Jimin and Tae get along well, joke with each other, cuddle and stare at each other lovingly, there's been some super cute Vmin moments all year. Tae knew all the lyrics to With You by heart. I sense no beef, no jealousy, no possessiveness, nor any strained anger. Jimin seems totally unbothered. Also the rest of the members aren't reacting in unexpected ways to either Jikookery or Taekookery this year so... I'm inclined to think whatever's happening between them all on screen is a bigger deal to us in fandom than it is to them in their lives.

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nightswithkookmin · 2 years

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I'm not a jikooker because I prefer jimin with another member I ship him with..jimin is someone so affectionate and caring towards the people around him. With this jm is close to each member but somehow for some reason its always jikook who are spotted hanging out together off schedule. so many sightings from army spotting them in a restaurant and restaurants confirming this.the DVD memory 90% is jikook ofc the company favors them more that's why they film only their moments. because honestly as I ship jm with another pason I tend to always spot jikook together that it pisses me off so much.have had enaf of them together.no hate to jk but he should leave jm alone sometimes not hovering around him all the time duh!my question the latest run bts suga said "that's smth a couple would do" I mean why do they feel the need to highlight that all the time? Thats weird 😭if jikook are real and closeted isn't this exposing them?outing them just for a content lol it doesn't work that way.this is putting them at risk given they are in a homophobic country? or maybe the company wants to push this narrative of jikook as a couple?.also have mentioned about them spotted many times hanging out but we never see any other member hanging out off schedule just recently I saw jihope watching soccer. And its very rare.feel the company is pushing this fanservice even in their private lives.they want people to believe jikook are a thing.

Excuse me, you prefer Jimin with who??? 👀

If it's V or Suga or Namjoon I understand but anyone else and I'll snort😆

And I agree. Jimin is ship compatible with every one including himself. Yes. If he were a twin I'd ship him with his twin too and I'm not ashamed of that.

If you can't picture them making out I can and it's hot

Honestly I don't know if I should be flattered or mad or both or neither at this Ask so I'm just gonna be as respectful as I can be.

I haven't watched the run episode. I've only seen snippets but I will watch it this weekend. I have a ton of analysis to do and I hate commenting on stuff I haven't consumed.

This is not the first time Suga has said something of that nature. He's been alleged to have said "You weren't even a couple then" during Festa when Jikook shared the rain story.

Jin has made similar statements as have Namjoon and the others. When it comes to Jikook that is. He'll jikook have called themselves a couple too.

Since I don't speak their language and can't understand the nuances of it myself, I refrain from depending on any linguistic analysis for validation. I just take notice of it and carry on with my life.

Karmy can be a bit prudish and wow at everything because it's bold and daring and so out of the norm and gosh did you hear that? that's so gay, and sensationalise almost everything because they are so shocked easily by the prospect of two men "acting gay" when gay is so such taboo in their culture.

They are like me when I stare at a vagina that isn't my own.

I've said this over and over, but perhaps the company gravitate towards Jikook not only because what they have is authentic but because it's the best content they have💀

Best in terms of content production, engagement with fans, conversion of that engagement into monetary value, their chemistry is great, they self produce or come up with independently thought of and creative spontaneous moments that the best of hybe CCs couldn't conceive if they tried.

Which is strange because Vmin have awesome chemistry too and frankly I'm trynna see it. Jimin is a whole other mellow character around Taehyung sometimes. He steps back and let Tae take it away. Whereas around Jungkook most times, he gets so animated and hyper you'd think he swallowed a dynamite.

Not sure how much of his hyper activity is triggered by a subconscious awareness of Jungkook's proclivity towards introversion on screen. Whereas with V I feel he's more trusting of his co-workers ability to engage the audience on his own and come up with exciting and unique ideas for them to engage in without him necessarily worrying about censorship and worrying Tae's nerves will cause him to slip or make mistakes.

With Jungkook he gets lost trying to loosen him up and get him to relax on screen and not be soo aware of the cameras, or not read too much into anything he does while also trying to rile him up to get a reaction out of him because he's often fascinated by Jk's visceral response and reaction to him. He acts like there's no camera around, JK it's into it but soon forgets that millions of people are watching and so Jimin has to be on high alert around him. They give me headaches but I'm toxic so I love it. Bring it on Jikook.

Anywho, that was old Vmin. And old Jikook. These days Jungkook is the one that tries to loosen JM up.

And these days VMin can't play or keep it going for more than 5minutes without boring us to death with whatever weird vibes and inside jokes they have going on between them.

Case in point

Exhibit B

Don't get me wrong, they have impeccable chemistry and are also very good friends but let them be alone for an hour and you start blinking blankly at the screen- like you know there's something they not telling us and they matured and they all acting like grown ups with so much self respect and admiration for eachother.

Like when Tae confessed he liked Jimin alot I didn't expect Jimin's reaction at all, certainly not Suga cringing cos if those two are besties and face time eachother everyday I love you should be something they both should be used to hearing from eachother by now and their friends should be used to their shenanigans too by now.

Besides Taehyung confesses his love for Jimin more than he breathes oxygen in the air and this is Bangtan raised to the power Kpop- gay isn't exactly new to them if you know what I mean.

Yet no one said well that's so something a couple will do for that VMin moment. They cringed harder than a ma cracks his knuckles. Like friends would if another friend started acting homo around the bro table. There's a scene from Boys over flowers where Lee Minho goes to kiss another one of their friends- note to self, gurl, you have to rewatch those dramas you loved it. We loved it. Cool? Cool.

That moment with vmin and Suga reminds me each time of that scene from the drama.

Where's if actual couples did it, the reaction would be one of just pure awkwardness because no one knows how to react around couples. You can't stare at them on the bus when they kiss cos you feel you are the creep creeping up on private moments. It's just awkward and you don't know what to do with yourself.

Then if they are your friends you try to play it up by teasing them, mimicking them, hooting at them

Or you just exchange awkward glances and smirk

And to put things into perspective, Namjin cringing and bursting out a romantic soundtrack over Jikook's rain fight narration was warranted.

It was the first time they were hearing this from them and their reaction was as anyone would- yet Suga didn't find that cringing AT ALL like he had found VMins moment to be- just a smirk like it's just ridiculous with those two. See how similar Jin had reacted to their hickey story too?

Hobi forgets to react at all sometimes💀

He just smiles warmly and stares or laugh his brains out. Except for that one time Jungkook let it slip he wanted to be handcuffed by Jimin🥺

And why was it necessary for Tae to say that? Why was it necessary for Tae to make that confession? And why did the members intuitively assume JM was going to choose Jungkook for that? Namjoon went with V but only because he voided his gut instincts and used his head. We've all been there.

Jimin have said Tae has matured so much and we only see glimpses of Old Tae but he's different. Of course that's gonna impact the way they interact on screen.

They keep saying that's something a couple will do because THAT'S SOMETHING A COUPLE WILL REALLY DO.

There's no beating around the bush about it.

The ironical friends sharing a couch or they look exceptionally close today does not explain why they sneak into each other's hotel rooms or why cameras were placed in their rooms without their notice and Jikook had to walk in blindsided.

Jimins reaction was priceless.

You frankly don't need to see or hear them going out to restaurants to know something's up with those two. You don't.

Anyone who claims otherwise is just in denial.

Personally, if a Korean were to ask me about Jikook I'd say to them they are friends fuck off. If an Iarmy were to ask I'll say they are more than that. I see them for what they are and I celebrate them, I appreciate them, I love them and I support them. But I will protect them against anyone that posed a threat to their safety their well-being and their essence.

It's just the gay way.

And I feel this is often the conundrum people are faced with when it comes to Jikook. On one hand, they want to be celebrated- who wouldn't -but on the other hand their safety careers and lives could be as stake and they would want to protect that too.

And the best way to do that, if I were a company, would be to hide them in plain sight. Which is what everyone and their momma does with Jikook.

Jikook have not always been the creme de la creme of ships and hybe have not always used them as their go to fanservice ship. Granted fanservice is part of Kpop.

The Busan Brothers have split. The sun and moon duo blah- jikook don't nearly get marketed as a couple as much as other ships in bts to be frank. Editors have called Tae Kook romantic or a couple with chest in content, Sope get called couples almost everyday, they deliberately put members together to promote stuff because THEY ARE ALL THERE TO WORK.

This is somebody's business. They invest real money Into all of this. If ships were hurting their business and hard earned or borrowed money, they would dead that shit two dinosaurs ago. The fact they ain't said nothing means it's serving them. We are the puppets and they are the puppeteers.

They pull the strings and we go. Not the other way round.

As to whether they are doing this at the expense of Jikook, Jikook would be the best determiners of that. They have agency and in the past where they were "too young" to comprehend the consequences of their actions they had their hyungs to look at for them- hence all those tensions and allegations of members breathing down their necks.

Bighit was acting like Kris Jenner, encouraging them to strip and gyrate metaphorically for the cameras while they smiled all the way to the bank to cash out.

But it's 2022, a year where BTS have gone up against the government of Korea itsself and decided by themselves to call off any postponement to their military service and serve.

This is the same year you want to peddle the Hybe making Jikook do fanservice in their PRIVATE LIVES???

Girl BYE. Can't take you seriously.

I won't lie you lost me there.

WERE YOU IN THE FANDOM WHEN THEY ISSUED A STATEMENT TO THE EFFECT JUNGKOOK'S PERSONAL MATTERS IS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS DURING HIS ITAEWON SCANDAL??

What they do off schedule really is none of our business or company's. Just as you get to go off work and your boss don't follow you home. It's reasonable to assume same for these boys.

YOU DIDN'T SEE HOW THEY SAID JACK SHIT ABOUT TAE JENNIE RUMORS?

There's been so much history and so much growth and the boys have accumulated enough socioeconomic capital to be reduced to such nonsensical levels of ridicule and bad takes.

And I'm sorry but what do you mean Jungkook should back off Jimin sometimes??

THE ANSWER IS A GRAND NO.

Read my lips, NEEEEEEUUUUUUUU

They are two legal adults half way through and almost 30, who determine whom to give their time and energy to and they choose to do that with each other- Oh look, I found something. Respect. Have some. For them.

Jimin has been spending his time with various persons both in a professional capacity and non professional capacity and we should be grateful that he is a functioning human being capable of functioning outside his group dynamic.

Going solo is pretty scary and they are all transitioning well and adjusting well to it. That's all that matters. Let's be glad that in spite of their personal projects that they make time to connect with their members and keep the spirit of BTS alive.

Real heartache is them finding BTS outside BTS and forgetting how precious their friend group once was.

But I get where you are coming from. rather than try to manifest Jungkook out of the picture, try manifesting your fave into the picture and go nag them until they call him up m- don't worry I'll put them through when the call comes. Wink.

Jimin is an extrovert and honestly he is well adjusted. I don't think he needs much help connecting with ppl.

My good sis, let's just enjoy the breadcrumbs while we can, before Jikook officially ties the knot🤧

Once they do it's game over for you and I and all the jm side ships on the black ship market🥺

I wouldn't say the company want ppl to believe Jikook are a thing. They only want you to believe they aren't a big deal. It's called normalization. The oldest trick in the books.

I'm high on pain meds.

I made sense some where I hope. Deadass💀

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vlovers19 · 4 years

Note

Hello you are great! So I want to ask you because I am completely confused. I learned yesterday that the video for "Life go on" allegedly contains evidence that Jk and JM live in an apartament. I didn't notice something like this, am I watching another video or am I just stupid? What do you think? So far I thought that Vmin has a potential to be real. Total confusion. Help

Hello and thanks for this ask.

Now Life goes on seems like they are telling a story about how the world is trying to move on after the pandemic. In addition to how they are trying to move on. In a way, it does seem like they are trying to hint that Jikook are a couple living together in the video. To buttress their point, someone claimed that the pyjamas they wore were matching pyjamas but then again Vmin and other members have worn matching pyjamas before so it's not a basis. Apparently, at the time, they were all living together and they chose one particular room to film in, including the scene where all the members are gathered staying separately on two beds. Now, If they were going to really show that the two of them were a couple, then they would have gone all the way and filmed that domestic jikook scene in a separate room. Besides, it's a big house with more than one room.

Also, how do we explain Jin and Jungkook side by side together in the later part of the video, their lower parts covered by a blanket looking suspiciously closer than normal? They practically occupied the entire bed. Shouldn't we also think that Jin and Jungkook are dating because of this?

It's our shipper mindset that makes us over think things and draw conclusions but then again, it's not our fault but the video editors who highlight all these moments to keep people talking. Most people are of the mind that jikook are living together. It's alright to keep things to their imaginations even if it's true considering the sensitivity of a homosexual relationship so the question is why bring it to the screen? Obviously, it will make people go gaga! It will make them anxious and most importantly, keep people talking about the video. It's surprising how these things really make people talk. Some will ask, why won't Taekook do it? They are more popular but I'll remind us that some time ago, Taehyung publicly chided a fan for shipping Taekook referring to that situation as delusional. Obviously, his relationship with Jungkook seems to be okay but we can sort of see his stance on the whole shipping thing.

So, this is basically what i think about the video. Thank you and have a wonderful Valentine. I know I will😍😍

#Vmin #jimin #taehyung #bts #park jimin #v #bts vmin #kim taehyung

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btsandvmin · 2 years

Text

BTS&Vmin analysis pt. 3 - Problems with analysis of real people (part 1)

There are many things that make analysis of real people very difficult, and even more so from afar and when they would have reason to hide the things we try to make theories about. (Something I think being LGBTQ+ or in a relationship would likely entail for any BTS member.)

There are so many aspects to watching other people while not knowing them or being well-versed with where they come from that can make a huge difference. Imagine the language barriers, the cultural difference with intimacy, couple culture, fanservice, being an idol, Big Hit's stance, their families' views, LGBTQ+ politics, confucianism and Asian or Korean lifestyles etc. Every group also has their own norms and rules and BTS has been together and formed each other for years. Not to mention individual ideals and views and personalities which can vary a lot even between the members. There are so many factors that could make a difference on how a gay relationship within BTS could look like with parts we as "outsiders" can only try to comprehend and guess. Generalization and assumption is honestly going to shape most fans’ individual experience and interpretation.

Be critical. Question what people say, their reasons for saying it and remember how easily something can be interpreted differently by different people. Just because I love Vmin and see something as possible between them it doesn't mean I am an expert with the right answer.

Before I even start doing any analysis I want to mention some of the things that make trying to prove something about BTS as faraway spectators very difficult and what we need to remember as we consume anything fan-created or opinion related.

The topics I will go through for "Problems with analysis of real people" are:

Part 1 (this post)

Culture and individual differences

Keeping up appearances and the created image

Complexity of humans and situations

Screen time and perspective over time

Confirmation bias and Cognitive dissonance

Language

Part 2 (link to part 2)

Dating and unknown relationships

Internal and external relationship with being LGBTQ+

Social norms - What is romantic love?

PR, risk and shipping

Summary

Culture and individual differences

BTS are very different people, and also from a different culture than most of us who do analysis in English, so to begin with it will be difficult to even know how they view things, as a group as well as individually. In Korea the standards of how a relationship works can be very different, and on top of that we are talking about a possible idol LGBTQ+ couple which makes it even more complicated. There is no guarantee that they would have the same thoughts or definitions of things that you or I do. For example how they define relationships or what they would be ok or not ok with while being in one etc. Very personal opinions and views can always vary a lot and none of us making analysis know the members on such an intimate level that we can know these things. We can only guess.

This makes analysis difficult since it will always be based on my preconceptions of things. Like how a relationship would work or how a non straight couple would act or get handled by their company or other people around them. Even just small things like sharing a drink, some get excited about it simply because they see it as intimate behavior and that it shows how close certain members are. But in fact they might just not care (which I think is the case for some members as they have done it with more than one person). In the end we might think something is a big deal while they don’t even think about it. Because to us, based on our life and experience, it might be a big deal. Perspective and attaching certain meanings to things is going to be subjective, not objective, when talking about the members and various ships.

For example, let's talk about intimacy. If anyone has watched the show Queer Eye you will know the Fab5 guys are very affectionate and touchy with each other. Several of them are married, but they can still act in a rather flirty way with each other and do things like hold hands or sit in each other’s laps. Basically even though many might see physical intimacy or giving compliments etc. as something that will make a partner jealous that doesn't have to be the case. It's impossible for us to know if the BTS members are in a relationship and what they would be ok with doing with someone else even if they have a partner. We know that Hobi for example is very affectionate and even kisses all of maknae-line without much problem. So coming with the concept of extreme jealousy for something another member keeps doing comfortably seems weird to me. The two things just don't seem to match.

We also have to remember that BTS is a family at this point. Seven men who have grown up together and lived together for years. The foundation of their relationships are unusual to begin with and then add on the extreme idol lifestyle and it's almost impossible for us to really know how that would affect them.

We know Korea has a lot of skinship between male friends, and we know it’s normal to see it between idols, and we know that a lot of very intimate looking moments happen between several members. Adding values like “a couple wouldn’t do this” or “friends wouldn’t do that” is all based on your own experiences and preconceptions. It’s feeling-based, not fact-based.

In the end the differences between them and us that we don’t know about is a problem that will affect our views. Even if holding hands, showering together or sharing beds might look romantic or “too intimate” for friends to some and maybe “get in the way” of another ship, the members could have a completely different view formed by their own experiences and norms.

If some members act differently with each other compared to the rest of the group that can also be an individual difference and we shouldn’t assume “all Koreans” or “all of BTS” would feel, think or act the same.

It's too easy to misunderstand moments simply because we don't have the cultural knowledge at times. One good example with Vmin would be their selca with “matching couple pajamas", which is actually just them wearing their hotel yukatas that you basically get in any Japanese hotel.

Of course that doesn't take away the fact that they posted bed selcas together for Valentines. But one layer of this moment has been misunderstood by many and it happens all the time, and we might not even know it.

We need to be aware that we can’t say if something is what a couple would or wouldn’t do based on our own feelings about it. And that both the Korean culture, idol culture and group culture are going to make things a lot harder to interpret. Not to mention the individual thoughts and their personalities of course. All the members are very different, and that alone should show you that you can’t generalize a whole group or their dynamics between each other based on what might be common or on what makes sense to you.

Keeping up appearances and the created image

Most public figures, not the least idols, want to show the best sides of themselves. Personalities can clash and the members surely don't always get along, but that’s not an image they would want to present too openly. Sometimes idols’ personalities are partly decided and their personas can be partly played up. The same can apply for friendships and groups being close as that's an important part of the appeal with many idol groups. They have ways they want to be seen and work to have certain images come across even if they might not be completely true. It makes it more difficult to know what is real and what is image. We even have an example of JK saying in Break the silence that a lot of groups don’t get along as well as BTS.

We even have an example of JK saying in Break the silence that a lot of groups don’t get along as well as BTS.

Brand, image or persona. There is a private vs public version and like most people they have their professional face on when at work. All kinds of artists and influencers to varying degrees show who they are in the light that they want to be viewed. Actually it applies to all humans, though it is more crucial when you are in the spotlight and need a certain image to be upheld. I don't think this is as big of a problem with BTS as perhaps some other idol groups, as a part of their brand is about being geuine and trying to shatter some of the distance between persona and individual. Even so I think it needs to be considered that what we see is partly a managed picture of the boys.

Our circumstances always shape us and how we behave. This is particularly true in situations where you know you have to behave a certain way or even lie at times. Just like BTS likely have received media training they would be aware of what to present in front of other people and especially on camera. This can be seen in how they talk differently on camera or off camera and how they sometimes slip from formal to informal language without thinking about it. Some members are better at it than others as well. But in general we know there are many things they don't say or do and just like any person show a different side to themselves depending on the situation. To a certain degree of course, because faking something or holding something back are two very different things. And I will say that if there is one thing I believe it is that BTS are as genuine as they can be. I don’t think faking their personas to an extreme length is possible with the amount and sort of content we as fans receive over several years. For BTS part of their success is their genuine personalities and I think that even if they don’t show us everything the things they do show us are mostly honest to their core personalities.

We only have what we see, but what we see can still be incorrectly interpreted. Especially since we also don't know to what degree what we see is BTS in "work mode" and how much they put up a persona while doing their jobs as idols. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean a persona has to be fake. But we all usually have a different way to present ourselves depending on where we are or who we are with. All people naturally act differently in different situations. And the BTS we get to see is after all them at work in some sense. For example we know they hold back to not swear or that they might avoid answering straight when it comes to dating questions etc. It doesn't have to be a huge difference, but the point is we can't truly know as most of the time we only get to see them at work or in a situation where they are aware they are being watched.

However, BTS now is also very different from BTS during their debut. And I do think that time can have shaped them and who they are even now. Though how much would be impossible for me to know. Still, most idols go through intense training before debut and get advice depending on image. In fact some Kpop groups even get trained to tone down their masculinity and become softer. I am not saying all do this, but some do. In contrast I think BTS who was a hip hop group from the beginning has done this less, or even the opposite and tried to appear more masculine (in the start of their careers). My point is simply that there are images you want to show and portray in kpop that might differ a lot from your true self, but that this is a problem that BTS is trying to bring to light and get rid of as much as possible with their commentary about personas etc. Either way we should know that both from an individual choice or from a pressure to be a certain way by the industry standard BTS members could have shaped their personalities in the past, or perhaps even still do to some extent.

(Festa 2019)

We also have no idea how involved Big Hit would be when it comes to their images. I think it's probably a lot better compared to some other kpop groups and also that they have gotten more freedom as the years have passed and they have learned by being in the industry. But to some degree I am sure they still have rules to follow, even something small like how JK wasn't allowed to gain muscle before because Big Hit wanted him to have a youthful image. Or how Jin in the beginning was supposed to be the serious hyung. When they first started they weren't allowed to post to twitter without asking and checking first, but now they have more trust and freedom. But there are likely still rules they have agreed to follow and that they agree are just for their own good and PR purposes. It's just important to remember that we don't know the restrictions and how that would affect the members.

That being said the members can of course also possibly go against such restrictions on occasion, or simply slip up or forget at times, but again it's very difficult to know anything for sure. At times they could break these rules or suggestions, as Jin has even said he doesn’t listen to what the company says and does things like cut or color his own hair without thinking much about it. In comparison Yoongi years ago joked about suing Big Hit if his hair fell off due to coloring it too often. I think that BTS now are very close to who they are as people, though shaped to show the audience certain sides. It’s not about faking who they are, but rather highlighting the positive sides they already have over the more negative ones.

Like in this Run episode when Jimin got visibly annoyed/frustrated but likely held back because he was being filmed and instead tried to be amusing. It doesn't mean he is trying to decieve us or that he is lying, but it might not be a part of himself he wants to show, so he holds back a bit.

Basically there are a lot of small or big moments where I am sure the members (perhaps some more than others) are trying to keep up a certain appearance.

I imagine it might be similar with things like relationships that they might have but have reasons to not expose. They hold back and stay quiet because it's part of the image, not because they want to lie to their fans or are fake.

Fanservice is a part of this as well. It can be hard to know what is fanservice and what isn't. And it might be difficult to know if fanservice means something is fake. For me I think in the case of BTS at this point fanservice is something they do for fun. It's not explicitly fake but rather playing with it in a way they are comfortable with. But I do think a lot of the “tension” fans may feel between members on stage is meant to be there and is basically acting to some degree. Not that they do it to try and fool us or that it has to be completely fake, but because it’s playing and them having fun and basically like jokingly flirting without any intent behind it. They know fans like it and they probably find it fun too. There is no meaning, just the image of meaning. Have you ever jokingly flirted with a friend? I know I have, and we both know it isn’t serious. BTS is a group that is aware of fanservice and the fans even expect it in the idol industry, so why wouldn’t the ones who think it’s fun do it?

Fanservice basically makes judging moments more difficult because they can add on a pretend intention, but it doesn’t mean fanservice is automatically fake or bad. It can be forced on some idol groups for sure, which I think we saw in early BTS and in particular when in Japan. But at this point I think we can see that the ones who do fanservice initiate themselves and seem to do it because they think it’s fun and some members don’t even play along when the others might try to do something for fanservice. Yoongi is a perfect example of only allowing what he wants, when he wants it (x).

I see fanservice as teasing either each other or the fans, and though some cases might look very intimate or heated I personally think it’s too difficult to know what intentions lie behind it most of the time. We see actors fake tension and intent in movies all the time, so surely idols could play with it without it being real as well. They are after all often acting in these ways while being very aware they are on camera and seen by the fans.

And just to be clear, doing fanservice and a whole relationship being fanservice are two very different things, and I do not think any of the relationships in BTS are “fanservice” or fake.

In the end I just think the images of public figures in general can make it more difficult to do analysis as the images we are fed are at the very least partly controlled. That being said, there is a limit to how much and how consistently you can fake something, which is why while I do think their images are controlled, they are not fake.

Complexity of humans and situations

Humans like to apply reason and assume behavior and have our own predetermined ways to label something. It’s a psychological mechanism that leads to stereotyping or responding to different behaviors depending on how you have learned to react to them. But assuming someone’s reason for behavior is hard enough when it’s someone you know and is face to face with. We don’t get to see what happens to BTS on a certain day, if they have a cold, if they couldn’t sleep well, if they are getting hangry, if they feel stressed for one reason or another. If they have a sore body or feel uncomfortable or tired. And those are just some examples of things that can affect your mood and as such your behavior and reactions.

You can react annoyed with someone you love if you feel stressed or tired without it having anything to do with that person in particular. This leads to inconsistent behavior and if you think that X person usually reacts Y to a situation like Z there is the rest of the alphabet left that can possibly influence the reaction because we don’t have the whole formula, if that makes sense.

We don’t see how many people or what people are around them, and we have no way to compare two situations fairly since we often only have small pieces of the context. I see a lot of fans worry about the behaviors of the boys, but a lot of it I think is projection and likely blown out of proportion. There could be something wrong of course, but guessing why something is wrong is a lot harder to do. For shippers it’s also very common to hyper focus so much on the ship that everything or most things seem to happen because of that relationship.

We need to remember that BTS are not characters in a story where every scene has a purpose to show us something, they are humans that can have off days or great days that don't have to be tied to a certain relationship. They don’t always think about what they do and we often won’t be able to tell why they do or don’t do something in any particular moment.

We might see patterns, and we might see reactions and perceive certain feelings from them. I am not saying we don’t know anything about them or can’t see anything at all. Because most shippers do view these people very closely for a long time and might learn to recognize certain behaviors or actions. But again, it will always be difficult to determine anything specific and we need to be aware of all the complicated reasons there are that might play a part in the members’, Big Hit’s etc. behavior.

Even if we know for certain that one reaction is because of one thing in one example it doesn’t mean that reaction always means the same thing. Or that the reaction to that one thing will always be the same. We still don’t know these people personally, and we don’t get to see everything. Some things they hide from us and sometimes they might act weird. Sometimes we might sense their feelings or note their reactions. Some things might be obvious, like if Jimin keeps failing at a task and he gets more serious and shows signs of being annoyed it’s fair to assume he is annoyed because of failing the task. But maybe he is also getting tired or hungry or is affected by something else as well. This is easier because it only involves one person and a very straight forward action and reaction. But adding more people, other factors that we don’t know about and possibly even reasons to hide certain things will make it instantly more complex.

All members will have different dynamics, all we can do is speculate and guess why based on the little knowledge we might have, and even then it might be misinterpreted knowledge.

We can look at different reactions from different members, and how they might react differently depending on the person they are doing something with. But they can also act differently when doing the same things with the same person in different situations.

We can also look at similar behavior between the members, but how do we tell that one thing means more with one person than the next? How do we know that it "meaning more" even means it has to be a relationship?

How can we know for sure without using several exact comparisons in the same environments, with only the person being different, that the reason for the different behavior is because of the person and not something else? And without prior knowledge of how the people behave when in romantic relationships to compare with as well. We are only observing from afar and can’t control or even fully know the environment or circumstances. We can't treat similar situations between different ships (or even the same ship) the same, as if they were simulations for experiments. Because they won't be the same.

We are also talking about many people changing over time, and as such inconsistencies might be very natural and expected. No human will be the same they were at 18 as when 25, and even more so people who go through literally life changing things like BTS have. Even if we do find something we might consider patterns over time those might also have other explanations than what we might think. In the end what we have are moments that we put together to try and create some kind of whole picture. But assuming something has to mean something just because it happens a few times over many years can also be projecting. I do look at what I consider patterns, but most of them have some exceptions and are very irregular, and we need to keep in mind it really could be us over analyzing.

When it comes to doing analysis on a ship being real (or any other guesses on the reasons for their behavior) the purpose behind their behaviors should not be assumed as fact as it most of the time will be based on your interpretation of moments where we are missing the full context or enough knowledge to reach any credible conclusion.

Screen time and perspective over time

We also have to consider time. Even though the amount of content BTS creates is massive there are likely many hours they get filmed that we don't get to see after editing and filtering, and that is still just a fraction of their lives. None of them share much of their private time with us, and some barely even talk about it. It's their right to stay private but we need to remember that no matter how much they share there are far more things they don't share. Even just a normal day "at the office" will include a lot of time not in front of a camera or crowd. For example working on songs, meetings or other preparations, going to the gym, most of their dance practices, lessons (probably not as common anymore but you get the point) etc. There surely is a lot of time where they don't have to constantly remember there are cameras (though they are still at work so I am sure they still remain professional) and I think we need to remind ourselves to not act as if what we see is a complete picture.

Some members seem to seek out or play around for the cameras more, and I don't think it's strange we often see more of Jimin, Jin, Hobi and JK in things like Bangtan Bombs where there seems to be no requirement to "be interesting" or engaged but rather the camera is just there to film the members do what they do. If Namjoon and Yoongi like to sleep or Tae likes to sit with his phone it’s not like that would make for interesting footage. Sometimes the reasons for screen time being uneven is basically just based on what the members do and not some hidden agenda. I think fans tend to want to put reasons behind why their ship or bias doesn’t get shown as much, but in the end I think screen time is mostly based on what the members show and their personalities and choices to play or not, and not because of hidden agendas of pushing or hiding something.

I also want to mention the back and forth I see from all shippers as soon as there is a period with "less moments" or something happening that can be interpreted as negative. The amount of moments should not trump what the members directly say. The worst example to me is how people start to doubt Vmin are soulmates, or even close at all, based on a few weeks with less content. Often without even considering why there might be less content, like BTS not being active, ending up on different teams in Run or even award season being very different because of Corona. There can be many reasons for Vmin to not interact as much as we might have expected or hoped for. Our expectations not being met doesn’t mean there has to be something wrong. To read more you can check my posts Vmin - Dead or alive? and Vmin - Dead or alive? Are we still asking the same question?.

As for us as viewers we might also want to remember that we are keen to remember “bad or negative” things or feelings more. This can lead to us forgetting when we do get moments, because we need “big moments” that are very “loud” to make up for lack of moments or things we feel negatively about. Even if a shared smile or compliment should indicate there being nothing wrong between two people we will compare it to the hugs we got two months ago and wonder what changed, when likely nothing changed. There are still positive exchanges, they just aren’t as loud as we might want or expect.

We also have different types of memory bias, and that will affect how we remember things more or less and what kind of impression we get long term. How we remember things might not always line up with reality.

Negativity bias is one thing we should be aware of. As a person working in the news/media industry to me it’s very evident that bad news draws more attention and creates discussion. It gets talked about, we get more involved and we often think about negative things more frequently, which in turn makes them easier to remember. So being worried about Vmin will be a thought that we keep in our minds and get enforced by recalling all negative moments.

“Negative emotions generally involve more thinking, and the information is processed more thoroughly than positive ones. Thus, we tend to ruminate more about unpleasant events — and use stronger words to describe them — than happy ones” (article, verified sources)

A recurring example to me is Vmin in 2017 and 2018, where I am still of the personal opinion that the negative change or falling out/drifting apart that so many in the fandom felt is highly exaggerated. I will use it as an example and list the things I think affected this image.

Vmin in 2016 was very loud and close. People will naturally compare Vmin after to Vmin before. So even if we do get plenty of moments in 2017-2018 it might not have felt as intense as 2016. But we have to remember the context of both these periods. In 2016 Vmin “got closer”, it was intense during the BST era, and we also know Jimin might have stayed extra close with Tae because of the struggles he went through.

2017-2018 was a difficult time for all members and they all had doubts and even considered disbandment. The rise to fame seemingly affected them a lot and in particular Yoongi and JK seemed to struggle, which is also why I think Jimin was very close to JK during this time, just like with Tae in 2016. It’s likely some members reacted badly and couldn’t hide their worry/sadness etc. and we saw them seem down and worried. It might have affected their dynamics and we might assume it must have to do with their relationship because that’s what we focus on.

Ji/kook getting closer gets interpreted as Vmin getting less close. Ji/kook being “louder” made us feel Vmin were “quiet” in comparison even if we still had a lot of moments. But the loudness of one relationship (which also gets highlighted more due to the amount of shippers) does not mean the members have abandoned one relationship for another and to me is a very toxic mindset that fans apply to BTS.

Because we tend to compare. We saw Vmin before and Vmin after as loud vs quiet instead of looking at the fact that we got good moments but perhaps just different moments than we were used to. We forgot to look at Vmin as people who changed, and BTS as a group seemed to go through a lot of changes as well. We just compared and counted the differences without thinking about why those differences might have happened. I saw a change in Vmin, yes, but I did not see a decline in closeness between them. In hindsight Vmin has also said they got closer and fought less. Being calmer is a change that could have been misread as being more distant.

Illusion-of-truth effect might also make us think something we hear a lot rings more true. So, when many people repeat that Vmin seems less close it will eventually start to sound more and more true. I saw this happen real time as worry based on small moments escalated to thinking they seemed cold towards each other and wondering if Vmin had a fight. Now it’s just a “fact” that Vmin 2017-2018 were less close, without actually considering the moments we got those years.

Of course there could have been something going on, or some of the negative moments might have been arguments between them. But I once again want to emphasize all the good moments that indicated the complete opposite and that two members having bad moments shouldn’t affect how we see them long term unless it stays consistent. And we got too many great moments from Vmin in 2017-2018 for me to see it as any long lasting change or drifting apart. Vmin called each other soulmates in 2017 and they still call each other soulmates in 2020, that’s the perspective we should focus on.

Something called the “isolation effect” might also be at fault here, and kind of ties together with how much Vmin’s behavior over time gets normalized. Meaning when we are used to seeing something we are less likely to remember it. So, let’s say we see Vmin hold hands on the regular, we might not register it as a big deal after seeing it enough times and thus the impact of the moment lessens and we are less likely to remember it. But then at least I urge you all to recall the huge moments we had with Vmin in 2017-2018 (like Bon Voyage) that on their own should be enough to stop the doubt that they were not close anymore.

For me, keeping track and doing collections like my throwback posts makes it difficult to say with confidence that Vmin actually seemed less close or loud in those years, because in fact they had some really great moments that showed their bond being stronger than ever.

I also think recency bias makes us so quickly forget the moments we actually have gotten. We tend to put more importance on recent events and as such forget the good in the past if we feel there is a more quiet or in some way negatively perceived period. In combination with needing a moment to stand out or be big to remember it, when we get a more quiet period with “smaller moments” we suddenly start to worry.

If we look at a year from afar and see we “only got 4 moments in march” and then “but we got 20 moments in january” we need to realize the many reasons that could affect the amount. For example, how many activities does BTS have in general, is it during a tour or award season, are all members quiet and we watch mostly old material come out? Do they have reasons for not interacting much like choreo or ending up on different teams in Run? Not to mention all the other factors that can affect the members, like if they are tired or stressed or focused etc. Something I have noted is that it seems the first concert day it’s less likely to get ship moments, possibly because the members are more focused on doing it well and might be more likely to let loose and play a little on the second day. A lot of the time it seems lack of moments might be circumstantial, and that when we do get moments we don’t feel are big enough we ignore the ones we did get.

During the years I keep getting asks like “Vmin seem distant lately”, “Vmin seem so loud lately” or “what do you think is up with Vmin” and honestly the fact that these questions come with little time in between them (sometimes only a day apart) and constantly back and forth over years, says to me that we should not focus too much on it. It doesn’t say much,and even if there might be something to it there might be many reasons beyond two people drifting apart or getting closer. I don’t think Vmin go from soulmates to distant colleagues in the span of weeks or months, because by now there is enough stability in their relationship for me to not get worried. They keep showing us or even telling us how close they are, and even if there are months between when they express it explicitly it doesn’t change that is how they feel.

We need to remember that often content is also out of order, so even when we get little content one week the same week can later prove to have great moments in a Run episode only posted months later, and that’s very difficult to keep track of. We also have examples of moments being edited in one clip but then being shown in another clip from the same time, so I think we need to be careful with only noting editing in a way that fits our narrative. For example discrimination in screen time or only cutting away certain ships. (This is about “natural content” and not for things like MV screen time etc.)

Lastly, the amount of material BTS provides is so much it's very difficult for any one person to take it all in. I still find new moments from time to time myself and we are talking about literal years of material of different kinds. We have shows like Bon Voyage/Run/BTS Gayo, other videos like Bangtan Bombs/Memories/Concert dvds/Burn the stage etc, interviews, vlives, tweets/fancafe posts, written interviews, fan cameras, staff comments/behind the scenes etc. just to mention some of the basics. Have you or the person who's analysis you consume watched and remembered everything about every BTS interaction they might need to properly come to any fair conclusions?

A lot of new fans seem to jump into shipping without even learning some basics. And once there do they watch everything? Or do they focus on ship moments? For me a lot of antis seem to fall into this category as they make claims that simply aren't true, likely because they haven't even noticed or seen some of the smaller or more obscure moments. A lot of fans don't read every interview, see every post it answers from fansigns or watch every vlive, and even if they have it's basically impossible to remember everything. For example, I have watched every BTS vlive there is but I won't be able to remember everything that was said in every single one. But I do know of small moments where Vmin mentions each other that clearly aren't played up or something they would fake to make people believe they are closer than they seem. In the end the amount of times Taehyung and Jimin speak of each other, the amount of times others speak of them and all the small moments spread out over years should be enough to trust their bond. It's impossible to pretend and lie to that level for so long, if Vmin hated each other it's much more likely they would rather stay quiet than subtly gush about each other in small ways most fans won't even pick up on. But due to focusing on what they already believe and not seeing a lot of the subtle nuances and mentions we still have many who believe Vmin to be fake. Or Vminies worrying something might have been off between them at some point. This is why small moments matter too.

So remember that we don’t see everything. We tend to focus on the negative. We get affected by the common rhetoric passed around and we easily forget past events, in particular if they don’t stand out or if we feel they get overshadowed by something negative or compare it to something we think is better.

Confirmation bias and Cognitive dissonance

I want to start with saying that I am no expert in these subjects and only use them because I think they fit into how I see shippers act and contribute to some of the problems with doing analysis or being convinced of a ship being better or real. If I get something wrong I apologize and I urge everyone who reads to remember this is not all facts, but rather a theory of mine when it comes to shipping and how it affects us.

I also want to talk about these two psychological phenomenons because I think many might struggle with this, maybe even feel bad about shipping, and being aware might help you. I know it has helped me in many things, not just with shipping. Even if being aware doesn’t completely stop me from still experiencing and being affected by both confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance (and the defensiveness it causes) it has still made me more open minded and skeptical. I make sure to remain skeptical not just towards other people’s ideas but my own as well, especially when it comes to shipping since we rarely have anything but interpretations to back up our theories.

I often talk about confirmation bias, but to make it clear I am going to quote the explanation from Wikipedia so you can read it for yourself if you want a clearer picture.

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.[1] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs. Confirmation bias cannot be eliminated entirely, but it can be managed, for example, by education and training in critical thinking skills.

Confirmation bias is a broad construct covering a number of explanations. Biased search for information, biased interpretation of this information, and biased memory recall, have been invoked to explain four specific effects: 1) attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence); 2) belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false); 3) the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series); and 4) illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

All humans have this tendency and even if we are aware it can be very difficult to avoid. I know I have it for sure in regards to Vmin, so I would rather be open about it so I don’t end up fooling others to blindly believe my views which are without a doubt affected by my bias. Not to mention the bias you as a reader might have for or against what I am talking about, for example Vmin possibly being real.

I also want to talk about cognitive dissonance, and why I think it matters so much when it comes to shipping. Like I said I honestly don’t know any actual research that talks about it in regards to shipping, but I personally recognize the reactions and responses in shippers (as in many other fields of discussions regarding beliefs), and think this might be helpful.

I can in short describe this psychological occurrence with it being the feeling of being unsure and feeling emotional distress when you end up between two beliefs/views/actions/ideas that contradict each other, and that trying to avoid this bad feeling can lead to either denying or including new ideas. Basically one defense to avoid feeling cognitive dissonance is one of the reasons for “Humanity’s inability to accept truths that clash against core beliefs even after new evidence is exhibited.”. Essentially the reason for why we are so keen to believe what we want to believe even when proof can exist to show otherwise.

This is something every human experiences and is affected by in almost all areas of life as it applies both in discussions and internally when met with new information. I have spoken about it a lot but not in these terms but rather as shipping behavior I have noted. And I think it’s important enough to repeat at least quickly one more time. I think feeling dissonance is very important as it means you are aware and open to change. But if it affects you in a very negative way it might lead to denying the things that are telling you to change to protect something that is important to you.

I am just going to quote wikipedia directly on cognitive dissonance, and I think many of you might recognize the feelings and behaviors. All humans do this, and I certainly have when it comes to shipping in particular as well.

In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance occurs when a person holds contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values, and is typically experienced as psychological stress when they participate in an action that goes against one or more of them. According to this theory, when two actions or ideas are not psychologically consistent with each other, people do all in their power to change them until they become consistent.[1] The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, wherein they try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.[1][2]

In A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency to function mentally in the real world. A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance. They tend to make changes to justify the stressful behavior, either by adding new parts to the cognition causing the psychological dissonance (rationalization) or by avoiding circumstances and contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance (confirmation bias).[2]

Coping with the nuances of contradictory ideas or experiences is mentally stressful. It requires energy and effort to sit with those seemingly opposite things that all seem true. Festinger argued that some people would inevitably resolve dissonance by blindly believing whatever they wanted to believe.

This is a big part why people can believe in illogical things despite being very intelligent. Especially if that belief gives us something positive and we want to protect that positive feeling. We are basically programmed to bend things we don’t like into making sense in our own way. If I see signs of other ships being real, they might even be felt physically through stress if it has gone far enough and we are so concerned with having our view confirmed it makes us experience cognitive dissonance. If I feel stressed about something going against what I believe I might in turn try to solve this by rationalizing and coming up with good reasons why my idea still makes sense and the contradicting idea or view doesn’t, or just bluntly ignore anything that goes against my beliefs.

I will add this video with a short explanation on it to hopefully make you see what I am trying to say and why I think it matters and can be applied to shipping.

(42) Why It's So Hard to Admit You're Wrong | Cognitive Dissonance - YouTube

As a shipper my actions are all directed towards creating content and advocating for Vmin, I invest time and emotions into the idea of Vmin as something beyond platonic. If it starts to go beyond just enjoying the idea, I might feel my views and actions threatened if I see something that “goes against Vmin”. And to ease that dissonance created by something challenging my views I would react to make the unpleasant feeling go away. Because feeling dissonance also causes stress it’s not unusual for it to manifest in defensive or even aggressive behavior, often either attacking the conflicting matter presented to you or completely denying it, because you feel your beliefs/ideas/actions being threatened.

Basically in shipping I think it might be when ideas we have and new information we come across (sometimes real facts and sometimes just theories) clash that we feel this emotional stress. When we want to say “this is the truth” but also feel reasonable doubt telling us “but maybe it isn’t the truth.”

For me, I would just like to add that the way I deal with this is by staying open minded and by holding on to that how much Vmin love each other has nothing to do with their relationship status. This is why I say I don’t need Vmin to be real, and why we all probably shouldn’t get too attached to our ideas or wishes being right.

I remember thinking that it was very weird that Jimin and Taehyung wouldn’t communicate during the break in 2019 and this went so against my previous beliefs I tried to justify it, “maybe they lied and they were together, maybe they aren’t as close as I think, maybe they had some specific reason not to be together”, bouncing around various ideas trying to find an answer I won’t find. Until I came to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter, Vmin can still be close even if they didn’t meet up or talk for a month and I can’t know the reason anyways. I decided to trust them and move on with changed beliefs.

Also I would like to say that to me it also helps having a line drawn for when something no longer will be ok for me if my beliefs are directly proved to be wrong. And the only information that could make me stop loving and enjoying Vmin’s bond is if it proves to not be genuine or drastically played up. Because that would mean that BTS and Vmin have straight out lied to me, and that’s just going to make me completely abandon the trust and respect I have for them. “Vmin are soulmates” and all that it implies is something I believe, not something I speculate about. It’s a belief I have because they have told me themselves about it. Unlike the possibility of a ship being together in real life, which is all based on my own ideas and interpretation. However, if I somehow got that belief of Vmin being soulmates proved wrong, I would definitely feel hurt and move on and away from BTS.

I'd like to recommend this video where they speak about the signs for cognitive dissonance when having a discussion so you might be able to more easily recognize them in others and more importantly in yourself. Again I want to point out this is not something definitely proven to happen in shipping, but something I personally think is one of the reasons behind many shippers’ behavior. I also can’t speak for accuracy as I am not an expert in this subject myself.

(42) How To Argue With Someone Who Won’t Listen - YouTube

A very common reaction to avoid feeling cognitive dissonance is a resistance to change, as mentioned in the first video. Especially if changing might lead to leaving behind something positive or going through something negative. I will include a screenshot from the first video to remind you why the thought of your ship not being real or being “lesser” than another ship might affect you so much.

We feel emotionally attached to Vmin as a romantic couple. It’s an idea we love and get joy from. Having that idea taken from us or threatened, even if we do know it’s not real, might make us feel sad. Furthermore we might try to protect ourselves from feeling stress by selective exposure, meaning we only choose to listen to information from sources that we are inclined to agree with. We seek out people who think and feel similar to us. It shows we are less likely to be wrong and has good reason for our feelings and thoughts about whatever it might be. So, shipping communities and material become a source of comfort that enhances our feelings of being in the right “camp”.

I also think this is tied to confirmation bias, which soothes this emotional stress by enhancing our feeling of something being more important or correct if we want it to be.

We use our collective imagination to fill in the gaps and explain why our reality is the most likely reality, and often try to downplay or undercut the logic in contradicting narratives. Or sometimes even attacking the people who construct the opposing ideas and rationalize why they are more likely to be wrong, for example by assuming they are “younger, dumber, don’t know relationships” etc. We create a us vs them feeling. If we get a negative view it might affect our reactions towards a group and they might in return get defensive and back and forth it gets enhanced. Which is why I want to warn against generalizing, as every person doesn’t have to have the same thoughts or feelings about everything even within a community. This is why while we can see some common things with some groups it’s better to judge people based on individual behavior.

Even more so when social media might only show us the loudest views and we often tend to highlight the bad which might skew our views based on the things we see and share. For example “look how dumb this argument is” using a truly dumb argument to make all other arguments on the same topic feel less relevant as well. Meanwhile we might in comparison highlight the good in our own community.

This then gets agreed upon and expanded upon by many other shippers who specifically seek out similar opinions they agree with, because we want confirmation that our way of thinking makes sense. And thus an echo chamber of similar opinion is created that keeps on reaffirming your narrative until it’s almost impossible to deny anymore. There is no specific shipping group that has this more than others if we look at individual traits, because people of all kinds ship different ships for different reasons. We all have different preferences, and the only real differences between what might affect how a group acts are size of the group and narratives, which can affect their behavior in various ways. For example I feel like I do see more toxic behavior from tae/kookers, but I think their narrative of “being hidden” gives room to create more lies and base more things on speculation. If they already think BTS can hide and lie so much about one thing it’s easier to accept more and more lies after that. Some which might get very toxic for the sake of removing threats in the form of other obviously strong relationships in the group. It’s not about what kind of person the tae/kooker is, but rather how the narrative allows for more logical leaps. But again, this does not automatically mean it applies to all tae/kookers or whatever group we might talk about.

The problem with shipping and perhaps even more so in shipping real people, is that we don't have anything that can definitely prove if we are right or wrong. At least not something strong enough to convince a majority and make it common knowledge, like you can with science for example. All we can do is watch and trust the members and apply our own logic and thus take logical leaps to arrive at our conclusions. But different fans will have different views and it ends up with my logic vs their logic. Often neither side can provide unquestionable evidence and thus we come up with the most likely scenario based on what we see in combination with our preconceptions and biases.

I am a hypocrite here, because I know I do almost all of these things myself. Even in this analysis I am writing I am affected by it. Even being aware might not stop it from happening, that’s how strong it is, but I hope that it might at least help a little.

Long time exposure to the same opinions might slowly change the way you see things and you might not even notice it. It often has little to do with your intelligence and I think ideally we should all be able to expose ourselves to all kinds of ideas and discussions, being aware that having different opinions or views is okay. We just need to remember that there is a difference between facts and opinions. And if you are wrong you will end up getting hurt if you are too attached to your own interpretations or ideas.

I have to remind myself of my theories being theories all the time because I know how strong the psychological reactions in my brain can be in persuading me. Once again, humans all believe contradicting things with similar conviction, and there are compelling arguments made for opposing sides. Don't convince yourself you definitely have the answer in a situation where none of us can know what reality may be.

There are believers of all ships for their own reasons. Don't try to explain why your own ship is superior and is "real", because we all have flaws no matter what ship we may focus on. If someone says "they don't ship/believe my ship because they don't know everything about my ship" that also applies to that person. It applies to every single one of us to various degrees.

All I can say is try to always remain skeptical, open minded and ready to be proven wrong.

It's also so important to remember to find credible sources. A lot of things are hearsay that end up being accepted as facts simply because so many people say them and agree with them.

Shippers and believers often spread interpretation as facts. It doesn't even have to be done so originally but as many others agree and talk about the same thing it becomes an accepted fact amongst the community. Basically a lot of these shippers or believers don't seek information and facts but rather end up searching for and finding echo chambers where people agree with them and they get constant confirmation of what they believe in from others that believe the same thing.

This is very harmful and difficult to stop once started since fact checking everything isn't exactly easy. Especially when it comes to old moments. Even though I try to be careful, I may have the wrong idea or have been fooled by something spread as a fact. I have also seen others talk about things I have brought up as definitely true even when I always try to point out it's just my views and thoughts. Basically a lot of these analysts and how their followers react and spread information has normalized the use of misinformation to further your agenda.

This is by no means something just happening with shipping, but it is a huge problem when a lot of analyses are even based on things that simply aren't true. But sometimes they have been talked about so much people believe them to be. For example I would say "jealous JK" or "Vmin aren't as close anymore" are usually narratives pushed by using misinterpreted moments building up to a picture that isn't as obvious as many think. Even things like "Vmin knew each other first, since high school" is an incorrect assumption that has spread as fact to some parts of the fandom. Shipping analyses are usually not pure facts, even if you agree with them. They should hopefully be based on facts but they are always going to be subjective and full of the person's interpretations and that includes mistakes as well.

I also would like to point out that in a lot of ways shipping turning into believing seems to work in a similar way as conspiracy theories. I wrote a post on this subject (Can shipping turn into conspiracy theories? ) and one thing I think is important to remember is that once someone has already fallen for a shipping theory and gone down the rabbit hole it will be much harder to reason with them or make them think differently. Of course this goes for all shippers to various degrees, but trying to come to them with facts might make no difference at all if someone already has a firm belief.

We all have our own thoughts and ideas, and there is nothing wrong with that. Let’s just remember that what we might think or theorize about doesn’t have to allign with reality even if our brains might want us to think so.

Language

I have a few different things I think we should keep in mind as we consume both material from BTS, from fans and when we come across analysis (no matter format) in regards to language.

1. First it's of course the language barrier we all have as fans who don't speak Korean and how we have to trust translations and can easily miss or misinterpret moments. We have to trust others and sometimes those who translate might even have an agenda we can't be sure of. But I want to tell you that despite translations sometimes being misleading we should not assume Big Hit has an agenda and is doing it on purpose. Especially if the material if viewed by a Korean will still include the moment we might feel is on purpose misrepresented.

2. Secondly we have our own values on words. For example, what is fanservice or what do we think of when we hear “chingu” or soulmate. Do we have a negative, positive or neutral association to a word? Maybe we think “chingu” sounds very casual or distant, but Vmin on the other hand has a different attachment to the word and between them it doesn’t mean the same as when used with others. We can't know what others might think about a word or expression and shouldn't assume it's the same as what you think.

As an example I don’t see fanservice as something negative so I won’t react badly to hearing Vmin does fanservice, while someone else might react differently and even feel offended. I know that for many it has an equal meaning to fake. But for me I rather think that there are different types of fanservice, some which might be forced and seem fake and some which are simply there for fun and that the members initiate because they want to. The attachment to the word is neutral to me and I judge depending on what the moment might be, while others might see the word itself as something negative.

I once had a discussion about what “platonic” means and when it should be used with a person who had a very different meaning attached to the word. Basically, we all already put different values and meanings into words or expressions based on our perspective. But that can in turn make you assume everyone has the same idea of what a word means, when that doesn’t have to be the case at all. So, in the case of shipping analyses it gets complicated, because first I might misunderstand the original words and moment, then I talk about it and then the one reading what I said might also misunderstand what I meant and so on. And there is not always an easy way to ask or confirm what the original intent might be.

3. Thirdly, the nuance of a word in its context or how the user applies it. For example BTS are all incredibly close and we may see all kinds of speech patterns and words used by them in ways that might not even be the norm in Korea. Friends who have been together for a long time may develop their own ways to communicate. To use an example, some friends casually say things like "she's my bitch" without meaning anything bad. Using what is an insult to some might be an endearment to others. All dynamics within BTS and the way they speak to each other is too much influenced by their closeness, the fact that they are both friends and colleagues and the fact that they have both professional and private relationships where their language can be different.

My own idea of how to use a word and the feelings a word evokes might not be the same as theirs. On top of that the translation might make the choice of word come off in a different way as well.

For example, when doing my analysis of Let's BTS and Jimin's comment "this is dangerous" as a reaction to Taehyung's note, I felt that was very strong. What does he mean "dangerous"? But it's also possible he uses the word in an exaggerated way and to me it just feels too strong based on how I would use the word.

Korean is on it's own a very complex language with it's varying degrees of formality, and when it's used, or between who, can also vary a lot. We as outsiders can't always know the feelings or intentions even if we may apply the normal uses of the words. A lot of things can be lost in translation, and as non native speakers hearing BTS use things like inside jokes, common slang or something like sarcasm can very easily come across as something else.

The other way around also applies, that when BTS use English (or to them any other foreign language) it might be a mistake or a lost in translation moment. BTS sharing an English song might not mean they relate to and know everything in the song, or Jimin using “My love” might to him not be as romantic sounding as to some native English speakers.

4. Fourth, the language of an analysis (or just fan opinions in general). As for me I am not an native English speaker, and thus can't always express or explain my theories very eloquently. But the way a theory sounds and if it is well written/edited can affect our way to view it. If something sounds smart we are more likely to accept it without question, and might be more easily convinced. Likewise if something doesn’t sound overly biased (super negative or super positive) we might feel it is more balanced and trustworthy.

Confidence is also a factor, and we tend to get drawn to people who seem sure of themselves. Maybe you have even been in a discussion where you have the "facts" but start to doubt yourself because the other person is so sure of their own contradicting "fact". In today’s society it might be easily solved by a google search to see what is right. Remember Jin and Jimin discussing if dolphins can breathe underwater? (In BV2). Even small things like this can be argued and might make you wonder if you are wrong if the other person keeps insisting. But with shipping we can’t always check the facts, as it’s often based on interpretation. But the feeling of something making sense can still be affected by how something is presented and how sure the source sounds.

Not to mention the content itself, as things might get emphasized on or downplayed or not even mentioned for the sake of an argument. I know that some of my own theories or ideas have been retold by others in a more factual way and that it has made people feel more confident about Vmin being the superior ship. Even though I and the second person, and third person and so on presented the same information, the way it was shared and retold made the same thing sound more convincing. It’s a snowball effect that also happens gradually over time as things get more and more “accepted” as facts even if they might not have started out as one. I am careful with my words because I know the power they hold.

If we use “Vmin seem to be careful around each other sometimes” and compare that sentence to “We can conclude that Vmin acts careful when together” one will likely be more convincing than the other. Every word might affect how we as readers interpret an analysis.

It might sound obvious, but language matters a lot. When looking at any text, but in this case shipping analyses, we have to consider many things. Who wrote it? What does it say? How does it say it? To whom is it directed? And what effect does the text have (meaning interpretation from the reader and how they react to it)?

In fact the way your opinions or speculations are presented might make a bigger difference than what the intended idea is. Things will have a very different meaning depending on when and how you say it. What is the message I try to show in my analyses? For example, if I use "Vmin is real" or "If Vmin is real"/"Vmin might be real"? One is basically propaganda and the other is a hypothesis. But in the end perhaps the message is read the same despite my efforts? Even so I think it matters and I need to emphasize that my purpose is not to deliver the truth or a right way to think.

How do I get across the message I want to get across? And how can I be sure that it’s not misinterpreted? I can’t be, because we all interpret and understand things differently. That’s also why I try to repeat things in different ways and try to explain myself as well as I can. I think about the effect my words have a lot, and I want you all to think about it too. To not take everything I say as an absolute truth and to remember that I am a flawed human who is biased and doesn’t know Korean and doesn’t know BTS personally. Just a fan, sitting from far away and speculating. Just as every other shipper (or believer) is.

It might not have been the most fun part to read, but I do think it’s more important than many might realize. So, try to remember the problems we have when it comes to language in the context of consuming fan made theories and BTS content in general:

Language barrier.

Different values tied to words.

Internal nuances in language.

Language used in shipping context/analysis.

These are of course just some general points, but I do think we need to be careful and have them in mind as consumers of fan content, translations and as outsiders.

All I can do is try, and to remind you all to think about what you consume.

(Keep reading - link to part 2)

#vmin #vmin analysis #btsandvmin #big post #BTS&Vmin analysis pt. 3 #bts&vmin analysis #Problems with analysis of real people #shipping analysis #BTS shipping

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