#very impressive he ended up in 2 and 3 considering i didn't start listening listening to him until october/november
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basicallyjaywalker · 1 month ago
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Yes, Spotify, I already knew I was depressed, gay, and neurodivergent. You didn't have to hit me over the head with it AGAIN.
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poomphuripan · 8 months ago
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how do you feel about the changes from the original source in episode 2? personally i love how much more screentime women get compared to the novel—the brother-sister dynamic they added was such a nice touch and showing more of Ming’s family life early on really humanizes him. i also like that sol’s motivation for rejecting joe is different. it kind of got into gay-for-you terrority sometimes 😭 sorry for the ramble!
okay nonnie so my current verdict is I'M IN LOVE but i'm also wary.
before this series was even out, i had MULTIPLE conversations with different people on managing expectations for a better experience watching my stand-in because any novel reader would know it's NOT an easy novel to adapt considering its source material. you need a fine balance on how to make the scum ml as terrible as the story needs him to be for the emotional payoff to be as satisfying as it did in the novel, while not to make him so terrible that he's irredeemable in the audience's eye (which i'm sure not all novel readers felt yan ming xiu had redeemed himself yet at the end).
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watching the first and only trailer, my fears heightened because it definitely has a lot of sweet ming and joe scenes than i expected it to -> the impression i had then was that 'oh no they're going to softening up yan ming xiu and make him less callous towards zhou xiang' -> i told myself alright it's an adaptation, i will be happy if they just get the major PLOT points (as you can see my expectations bar were on the floor because i didn't wanna get my hopes up, that's how much i liked professional body double)
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but so far, i think i've been loving the changes in this adaptation because it feels liket the same story but slightly different characterization and pacing.
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so first let's talk about yan ming xiu aka ming. as i mentioned my fear of him being softened, i think that fear has gradually dissipated while we ease into ep 2 because i think the series does a GOOD job of recharacterizing yan ming xiu to fit with up poompat.
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so a bit of !!!!!novel spoilers warning but not really because im being very vague about it!!!!! but i always felt like yan ming xiu wasn't really well depicted in the novel since the novel is written from zhou xiang's perspective, yan ming xiu is so often to be looked through this rose colored lens of his to the point where i felt like ymx was a rather one dimensional pretty, arrogant, spoiled brat. reading the novel back then, i felt what a lot of average audience is currently asking from the series: SO WHAT DOES ZHOU XIANG SEE IN YAN MING XIU, is his dick that worth it?
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but like you mentioned, the series does well in humanizing ming and i would argue that the series has answered the question above better than the novel as joe makes it explicitly clear why he likes ming so bad (bonus is getting ming to hear this as well). with series!ming, we get to see aspects of his family life, the people around him and his general background whereas it took the novel 2/3 of the way for them to start introducing ymx's family to us but not for a very good reason but rather for a cliche subplot which i dislike (that i need the thai adaptation to do something better with this one).
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so rather than fearing the 'softening' up of ymx, i feel like this humanization treatment the series is giving ming is a better way of adapting novel!ymx because my stand-in doesn't shy away and unapologetically makes ming a terrible red flag...
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... yet simultaneously gives the audience some clues as to why ming is a red flag the way he is and it's not a seemingly inherent callous nature like other 188 novel scum mls. don't get me wrong, he's still a scum ml nonetheless but if you look at ymx's inherent level of maliciousness, it's nowhere near other scum mls written by the same author. and i think what my stand-in does well. because it is making the point 'ming is a terribly mean person but it's the result of his jealousy, his inability to listen to his own feelings and stubbornness, rather than an intentional aim to emotionally deceive joe' across much better than the novel did with just two eps.
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so far in terms of changes, i also like how the comedic elements are in here but they're not dominating the tone of this series and balances well out with the drama/angst going on. i guess this can also be credited to the actors/production team because they've always promoted my stand-in as a '120% sweet, 200% bitter romance DRAMA' series so i did not go in with the expectations of so much light hearted moments
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it's not to say that there weren't comedic elements in the novel, as the infamous 'and they were both top' scene is an exact adaptation of their first meeting in the novel.
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but being an adaptation, not to mention being a thai one nonetheless, my stand-in does well incorporating its way of doing humor into the original work seemlessly. joe's mood swings (affected by ming) were presented PERFECTLY through his three training session with his juniors. i feel like this is the kind of humor that could only be achieved through series/tv format as opposed to novel zhou xiang whose mood swings affected his acting work.
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on my beloved sol aka novel lan xi rong, i actually really like that they made him a former stunt actor as well and us getting to see porsche tanathorn doing all this action sequence (yes go yyds, rig your actor some of that screentime). but i thought it was very similar though, the reason for rejecting joe and his realization that joe was the only kind hearted genuine guy he's ever met once he's actually 'been in the industry'. i sure hope they don't characterize sol like how they did novel!lan xi rong 'i'm only gay for you'. give this man his own LOVE INTEREST (i'm actually betting my whole wallet on a brand new yim/sol loveline. i see it happening. it would not be a thai bl without at least one other side bl couple).
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all that being said, my only worry is that i feel like they've already adapted so much of the novel within 2 eps and thai bl adaptations have a tendency to diverge greatly from the original source material. so i have worries for the possible new subplots they might add into this series.
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tldr: i love my stand-in so much right now as a novel reader but i hate how i can't figure out what they're going to add in future eps ಥ_ಥ
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cryptid-writing · 9 days ago
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[A different kind of hero]
Warnings: None at all.
info: Second impressions, an awkward reintroduction.
A/N: Happy New Year. This is very long so I broke it up into 2 parts. This is the shorter of the two.
small cameo of my treasured friend @bunny-j3st3r who was mentioned before, but unnamed in chapter 3.
any feedback would be appreciated.
Chapters: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6.2]
==============
[Chapter 6] Part 1
==============
It had been a few weeks since that incident at Oscorp, and over a month since the incident that started it in the same location.
You had gone back to your usual routine by this time. Working and occasionally following your senses to try and help people, even if you didn't have anything on you to make a bigger difference. It sure would be nice..
'..I don't know how, but I would like to make it up to you.' His words echo in your mind. 'It's the very least I could do, but would you allow me to repair your costume?'
That had been something you've been thinking about ever since. You were nervous and uncertain, even going so far as to speak with your friend about it. Such is the case of now as you turned to enter your favorite little restaurant, the Commodité Café. It was just a fancy name. Walking in and heading towards your favorite windowed booth, you spotted your friend already enjoying a little meal.
Sai was a very unique individual. A small, fat mutant covered in a rich green fur from head to toe. Digitigrade with a tail that ended in the shape of a fin. Sharp teeth stuck out like an overbite from their short rabbit-like muzzle. One vibrant green right eye and a scar over where their left one would have been. Finally, shoulder-length furry green ears fell down with a little outward flare at the ends on either side of their head. A few piercings on each ear to match their red beanie and pink heart jacket.
"Hey, Sai..!" You greeted comfortably as you got seated.
"Hey," they replied, swallowing a mouthful of seasoned fries, "You still worked up about the scientist guy?"
"Yeah.. I really just don't know whadda do.. He didn't give me any bad vibes. So, I know he was bein' genuine, but like.. I'm scared of something happening or even losing my outfit.. I know I'm probably better off goin' somewhere else and gettin' it repaired there, but that's so expensive.. But I'd feel worse that I'd be gettin' somethin' like that for free from someone and--"
You began to ramble on, and Sai's attention began to wander as they listened. The rush of cars and the hustle and bustle of people outside was a common sight through any window. The chime of the entrance rang quiet, nearly lost to the chatter of the other patrons. Watching as a tall, tan man with a black bowl cut and brown suit walked in and headed towards the back of the restaurant, papers clutched in hand. A family of three came in shortly after and found their seat. It was a moderately busy time of day. Their gaze dropping back to their food, then back to you once more as you finished.
"Listen," they began, "as much as I hate this guy 'cause he attacked you, a free patch job is a free patch job. 'Sides, if he gives you any trouble again, I'll personally hunt him down. You can always just text me if anything happens."
They had a funny way of reassuring you, but nevertheless, it worked. You made a note to head out as soon as you could to take the doctor’s offer.
--
'Here is my contact card if you ever consider accepting my offer. Again, I'm terribly sorry..'
You fiddled with the card in your hand, his words ringing softly in your ears. 'Doctor Otto Octavius' the pastel yellow card read in a pretty red ink. The subtle glitter of the red lettering was enough of a distraction to pass the time as you took the bus to the suburbs outside the main city. Traveling alone always made your anxiety churn, feeling a little ill as a result. Holding your bag close on your lap, the onesie tucked neatly inside, your mind begun to spin.
What were you to even expect upon arriving? You were heading to a complete stranger's house. To say you were nervous was an understatement. You only hoped and prayed this wasn't like any of the intrusive thoughts that flashed through your mind. Shaking your head, you stuffed the card inside it and pulled out your phone. Opening up the map app, you input the location on the card and watched as you got closer to your general destination. You figured it would be wise to have it at the ready, never knowing how confusing suburbs could be in their layout. You remember fondly the times your parents would get turned around and a little lost when trying to navigate such areas back home. How different could New York be from Texas?
As the bus reached its stop, you were about to find out.
Shutting the phone off and tucking it into your pocket for now, you got up and stepped foot outside onto the sidewalk. Pulling out the phone again, you turned it back onto the map and began to follow the trail.
The houses were quaint and varied. Colorful with at least one or two trees in the fronts of half the houses you passed by. A few had decor, the swings, and at least one hammock you saw along your way made you long for some rest and relaxation. Alas, you had to keep going and focus on the signs.
Map reading was a moderate talent of yours, making it quite easy to find your way in no time.
After a few lefts and a right or two, you shut your phone off and tucked it back into your pants. Observing the numbers of the houses you walked by, you finally took pause. The street you were on was on a curved uphill road, the houses having small fences and steps leading up to the front doors. Various trees provided a nice level of cover from the sun. Otto's house stood before you. It was lain with beautiful black and red bricks and topped with a black roof.
Making your way up to the door, your sense of feeling out of place grew stronger. You had come too far to back out now, your anxiety be darned. You took from your bag your masks you wore in your onesie and put them on. Swallowing down your nerves, you took a deep breath and gave the bell a ring.
It was silent as the cute jingle played. It felt painfully awkward. You waited a moment and allowed your eyes to wander some more. Spotting some hanging plants under the awning, eying some pots near your feet. You almost wandered your mind until you heard some shuffling inside and the door soon opening.
This was the first time you were getting a good look at the man. He was awfully small, just a couple inches shorter than yourself, though his size certainly made up for it. A round and pudgy form filling out a chartreuse sweater vest and a button-up dress shirt. It was topped off with a cute red bow tie. His face was rather soft, having a slight square shape that matched his large square glasses. Brown hair a lighter shade than yours stuck out in small locks and waves atop his head, though his thick sideburns and the backside of his head were buzzed and dark like his equally thick brows. What really caught your eye were his teeth. He had an overbite just like you.
"Oh..!" He said, surprised to see you, "You're.." His eyes hesitated around your face before darting away with a cough, "You came. I.. I didn't think you would, if I'm being honest. Ah, would you like to come in?" He held the door open a little wider, shuffling back to allow you some room.
All thoughts in your mind had come to a sudden halt as you merely watched the man stumble on his own words and give greeting. He was surprisingly different from how you had seen him before. You gave a nod and stepped inside. The way he eyed your masks made you feel all the more awkward..
“Please, have a seat, make yourself at home.” He led you down the entryway, past 2 sets of stairs and toward the living room. It was a very comfortable space with a sofa and two chairs sitting atop a large circular rug. A lovely brown wooden home entertainment center set up on the wall opposite to the sofa. There were a generous number of plants and framed photos and many, many books on the shelves of it.
Otto took his seat on the sofa and you in a chair across from him. There was an awkward silence creeping in, but it hadn't had time to settle before it was broken again. Otto cleared his throat before turning to you.
"Would you like a drink? I-I have water, and--" He was just as much of a nervous little mess as you. Somehow, that put you a little at ease.
"That'd be nice, thanks."
"Got it. I'll be right back."
And he left the room. The kitchen was nearby enough that you could hear him getting what you asked. You clutched at your bag again and looked around. Staring up at the ceiling with barely a thought. A small trickle of questions passing in your mind. What to say next. What to do. You really wished you were more capable of thinking things through more to the end, planning ahead..
Luckily, you weren’t alone for too long as Otto returned shortly, two glasses of iced water in hand. He placed one on the side of the coffee table between the both of you that was closest to you, sitting back down with his own. He took a sip and allowed you time to take your own, a silence settling heavy. There was a thick tension in the air, neither one of you sure of what to do. It made you antsy. It seems he noticed your discomfort with a glance and decided to break the silence.
“I.. I know this is probably very uncomfortable for you, but I’m a little relieved you actually decided to come here.” he began, “I respect your choice of anonymity.” Noting your masks, “That’s understandable..” he trailed off a little, but quickly piped up again, “but you don’t have anything to worry about, though.”
“What?”
“The actuators--” he stopped himself, figuring you wouldn’t know what he was referring to, correcting himself with something more or less to the point, “Err, my metal limbs. I don’t have them in, so--”
“..In?” you inquired.
“Oh. Yes, they can be removed. It’s just the harness. You don’t have to worry.”
Your eyes wandered a second towards his middle as he motioned with his arms as he spoke. He lifted his vest up to show the dark metal harness just below it, still bound around him. The shirt he wore was bunched up around the top of it from what you could tell before he pulled the vest back down.
“That’s.. good to know, thank you.” You averted your gaze back to your lap and the bag that lay there. It was a reminder of what you came for.
"Uhm..” You lifted your head again to speak, eyes dipping from Otto to the bag and back for just a moment, “I-I brought my outfit with me. It's in my bag. I.. don't know when you wanna take it to work on it.. and.." You trailed off.
"Oh! O-Oh, yes, that's right! W-Would you mind letting me see?" He jolted and looked toward your bag. You hummed with a little nod and began to pull out the costume. It had been washed and dried since the incident, taking your best care not to distress any of the tears further. It was still folded to the best of your abilities as you handed it over.
Otto leaned over and took it, resting back on the sofa as he unfurled the costume to see the damage he had done. Remorse danced uncomfortably on his features, making mental note of each rip and tear and hole that needed to be patched and sewn. He felt a little sick remembering and thinking of what he could have potentially done had you not been there.. if you hadn’t reached out.
“This shouldn’t take too long. You wait here, I’ll go and get my things.” he placed the clothing down beside him and stood up to leave, “You are welcome to help yourself to a snack in the kitchen in the meantime. It’s right over there.” he pointed in the direction he’d gone to retrieve the water. Seeing you look over and nod, he gave an awkward smile and headed off upstairs.
When Otto came back down a few minutes later with a box of sewing supplies in hand, he was surprised to see that you had not moved. Truth be told, you felt bad about taking from the home of someone else. He didn’t question it, however, and merely cleared his throat as he placed the supplies on the center table and sat himself back down. Shooting one last nervous glance your way, he began to retrieve the things he’d need; needle and thread and a thimble or two. It was as he was thumbing through the threads for the right colors that he spoke again.
“..Do you mind if I ask your name..? We.. Uh.. W-Well.. We haven’t been properly introduced.. My name is Otto, i-if it puts you at ease that I go first..?”
You turned your head from where you had drifted off into space, blinking at him with a start. You hesitated to speak your real name, opting instead to continue the false one you had used once before.
“I’m.. Acedia. Otto’s.. a cute name.”
“..Oh. Well, thank you.” That surprised him, making his first stitch, “Acedia is a rather unique name. Pretty, despite its history.”
You perked up a little at that comment, happy to have it acknowledged.
“Yeah, I thought it was clever.”
He chuckled and agreed, continuing on with his sewing. He was 2 finished tear patches in when another silence settled between you. You had pulled out your phone and hesitated to turn it on. Fiddling with your apps and texts with your friends. You weren’t on it for long, turning it off and looking at your reflection in silence.. You turned your phone around, feeling more embarrassed and awkward about your masks. It appears Otto had noticed as the next thing you knew, you were jolted by the sound of the TV suddenly turning on and the light clack of the remote being placed back onto the table.
“..I thought we could use some noise.”
“Ah, thanks.”
“Of course.”
You looked over at his work, seeing how well his stitching was. It had you wishing you could remember what you had learned all those years back in high school. That one year learning about sewing and making clothes..
“Halfway there. I’m usually better with knitting..” came Otto’s voice with a small, awkward chuckle. “Ehm.. What about you? If you don’t mind me asking..?”
“Oh, uh.. I don’t mind mind. Um, I can’t really sew.. I never had a machine.. forgotten everythin’ I learned back in high school pretty much instantly, even before I graduated. I’m.. more into art. Never was crafty..” You fiddled with your hands on your lap, your gaze wandering.
“Oh, an artist? I’ve always admired art. Beautiful work.”
You hummed in response, feeling a little more at ease.
“If you’d like,” Otto paused his work to look your way, “I could show you some of what I know? It’s not a lot, but it’s not hard to learn. Just some simple stitches.”
“..Really?”
"Yes. It'd be no trouble at all. I may not be a tailor, but working in my lab can cause some accidents to happen."
"..Your lab?" you felt a bit uneasy.
He seemed to perk up, however, "Would you like to see it?"
"..But wouldn't we have to leave..?"
The look of dawning realization and horror spread across the doctor's face, embarrassment settling quickly as he jumped and sputtered to correct the misunderstanding.
"Oh, heavens no!" He shook his head and hands frantically for a moment, "I don't mean Oscorp! I have a lab in my basement..!"
"Ah, I'm sorry! I-I didn't mean to--!"
"No, no! I-It's entirely on me for not being more specific."
"It's okay, I really shouldn't have assumed.."
"I suppose.. we're both at fault then."
"Mmh.." You hummed in agreement and looked away as yet another bout of silence started to creep in. Fortunately, it hadn't time to make itself uncomfortable as Otto reiterated his question.
"..Would you still like to see it..?"
You quickly looked back up at his words. Curiosity always made itself at home in your heart. You also had nothing better to do anyway.
"Sure. I don't see why not."
That seemed to make Otto perk up. Standing up from the sofa, he made a comment about leaving the final patchwork for later and beckoned you along. You promptly rose and followed suit as he led to toward one of the two sets of stairs in the hall. Taking the one on your left and flipping a small switch, the doctor led you down into his lab.
-----
--
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"Perception" a Nine Essay
I started writing this back in January to take a break from brainrotting about Netflix posting EP1 of Season 3 to discuss something I had been thinking about again (ever since reviewing the end of season 2 for the umpteenth time).
I'd like to talk about the differences in how characters in Sonic Prime see Nine versus how he actually is. I know this seems like a simple topic, but I think we all do well with a reminder of just how much the characters in the show know with their limited povs (as we the audience can view everything).
I'll be going pretty much character by character (grouping some together to discuss their povs at once), and ending with Sonic and Shadow.
(Note: At the time I wrote most of this, I had planned to have it done before S3 dropped, as I felt that the messages of this essay would be good to put out there before we all inevitably saw Nine as the season antagonist. To keep up with my original intentions, this essay will only go up to what we the audience knew as of S2)
So let's start with Rebel Rouge and Renegade Knucks. They gather their first impressions of Nine as they witness Sonic and Nine's capture at the hands of the council, although they don't properly meet Nine until they enter the Chaos Council's base.
"Are you sure we were 'best friends'?"
"Blue streak has a friend?"
"Didn't look friendly. But whoever he is, he's involved now."
They haven't yet watched the video a resistance member took of Sonic and Nine's fight, and when they do, we only know for sure that they'll watch clips of Sonic talking about Green Hill. This means that (especially since there are no references during their meeting with Nine that they saw him fight Sonic), them listening in as Nine and Sonic are abducted is baseline their knowledge of Nine before meeting him.
They consider Nine a possible friend of Sonic's as they listen in, but it’s Rebel who mentions that Nine doesn't sound very friendly. This is a fair assessment, given the tone of Nine's voice and Nine's questioning if he and Sonic even were really friends. It's enough to be suspicious of someone's character, especially in a city like this, where choosing the wrong ally in your resistance could likely get you captured, or worse. It's also worth mentioning that first impressions matter with guys like Renegade who (like Knuckles) tend to make judgements of character based on first impressions and gut feelings. He trusts Rebel quite a lot as well, even listening to her judgement when it opposes his own, so it’s not impossible that her initial judgement of Nine as unfriendly starts to inform his assumptions as to Nine's character.
But I digress. If you believe they didn't watch the full video of the Nine/Sonic fight, that small moment is enough for one or both to be suspicious of character or decide they don't like him. If you believe they did watch the full video of the fight, then I'd say that's enough evidence to form even a bit of a negative opinion on Nine and his character (after all, it does showcase Nine fighting the hedgehog they believe could be a sign of hope/an asset to the resistance. It's not too hard to come to the conclusion that Sonic and Nine may have been fighting up until being captured, even if that isn't the truth).
Now, the first meeting.
If they do have bad impressions of Nine before meeting him, Rebel and Renegade don't hold these against him. Rebel only swoops in to save Sonic from the laser and battle the eggforcers (which also allows Nine to escape captivity). As for Renegade, although he arrives after Nine has used the commotion to sneak away to the monitor, forgotten, he also never accuses Nine of any foul play or of only caring about himself. During this scene, Nine frees Sonic, saves Sonic by taking control of Rusty Rose, and ultimately aids in the battle despite fighting.
Now, as for my claim that Renegade doesn't assume Nine as a threat to the resistance or believe him to be a bad guy, let's pinpoint the scene where Nine first talks to him.
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"No"
If you rewatch this scene (Season 1 Episode 2), Renegade isn't moving with intent to attack Nine. After punching an eggforcer, he bounds in the direction he's facing. He takes one step, in the direction Nine happens to be in before Nine instinctively points a mechanical tail at him (perhaps assuming that Renegade was moving to sneak up on him?). In addition, Renegade has this surprised look on his face until Nine says his next words.
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"Catch up, Echidna. I'm one of the good guys."
Of course, this does no favor to Nine’s image regarding Renegade (especially as this isn't the only moment like this in terms of how Nine talks to Renegade), but it doesn't prove Nine's a bad guy. At worst, it frustrates and annoys Renegade, and if it comes off as some sort of "secret villain red flag" to Renegade, he doesn't keep this moment in the forefront of his mind. After all, he and Rebel both choose to follow Nine's idea of stealing the Chaos Council's energy crystal, and they don't mention or act like they are suspicious of Nine during the fight. This is all to say that, at the current moment, to them Nine may have an attitude, but he's not evil or intending to betray anyone.
An attitude like Nine's during this portion is either something to overlook or a trait tacked onto an indication depending on how any given person sees you. This is to say that at best if someone likes you or believes you to be good, you're "just a little rough around the edges", and if someone dislikes you or believes you to be bad, it's "of course someone bad would have an attitude like this". It's an accessory, not inherently an indication of moral character or intentions. Someone can use it to further implicate him/find more reasons to dislike him later (such as when people talk/post/write about people they think are bad people and start nitpicking their appearance in their reasoning), but for now his attitude isn't enough to make Rebel or Renegade distrust him.
After all, didn't they really think Nine would save them after nabbing the red paradox prism shard?
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The shot is a bit hard to get, as they fully smile just before the show cuts back to Nine. This is the best shot of it I have at the moment. Just know that during Rebel's recount of this event in Season 1 Episode 6, Rebel and Renegade visually start to smile when they see Nine return with the shard.
Now that the mission is accomplished, we see that they're just waiting for Nine to rescue them. However, when Nine chooses to leave alone, Rebel and Renegade take it as betrayal.
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Renegade is surprised before he turns angry, freeing Rebel, Rusty, himself in his rage. Rebel's expression deepens (as if angry, regretful) and closes her eyes.
These are not the reactions of people who distrusted Nine (or Sonic for that matter) from the start.
This scene pointedly shows us that Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty did not see Sonic disappear into the red shard (the doors shut before they can). Then they watch Nine leave them to their fates, making off with the shard as Sonic is nowhere to be found. It's not about Nine's attitude or unfriendlyness (or, again, Sonic's attitude for that matter. As Sonic *also* made Renegade frustrated the same way Nine did, but by calling everyone by the wrong names). It's the fact that they have every reason to believe Nine AND Sonic used them only to abandon them when they got the shard.
And this is perhaps shown best this interaction between Renegade and Sonic.
"I didn't steal the shard!"
"But your fox friend did."
Sonic had explained what happened to him to Renegade, who explained it to Rebel. Despite this, Rebel still saw him as a backstabber, angry enough to want to leave him at the mercy of the chaos council or turn him "into a handbag". Why?
Well, remember that Renegade and Rebel's first introduction to Nine was Nine bringing his and Sonic's friendship status into question. Whether they believed the two to truly be friends then, they did see the two conversing at the red crystal before Sonic disappeared and Nine left them high and dry. So even if Sonic hadn't purposely left them, I don't think it's a stretch here to say that Rebel and Renegade had assumed the two planned to leave Renegade, Rebel, and Rusty behind. Perhaps Sonic didn't make off with the shard, and perhaps he couldn't help his disappearance, but his partner made off with it.
Rebel and Renegade don't know Sonic, especially not like the audience does. Both with the knowledge they had at hand AND to deal with what was a shocking betrayal to them, Rebel and Renegade considered Nine and Sonic to both be traitors. This is also not to mention that despite Sonic's new testimony of his disappearance and his surprise that Nine would leave Rebel, Rusty, and Renegade to die, he wouldn't give Nine up to them.
Sonic has to try really hard, advocate for himself after a score of disappearances, and help the rebels a number of times for Renegade and Rebel to even consider that he's telling the truth about his helping them.
Likewise, Nine doesn't advocate for himself (or really care to). He swoops in to fight, takes Sonic to disappear again. He swoops in to fight for a bit, and then is captured by the Chaos Council.
And not only do Rebel and Renegade not know he was captured specifically, they did not see it. Earlier, before the battle, they made it clear that the red shard could not fall into the Chaos Council's clutches, or everything would be done for. Renegade even probed Sonic for Nine's location so they could make sure Nine would never give it to the coucil (even despite Sonic's testimony that Nine would never do that). Not only does Nine's capture give the Coucil the red shard, it gives them the secrets to interdimensional travel and makes them more of a threat than before.
This is all to say that, on top of the fact that Nine doesn't try to change their opinion of him as a traitor, as far as they know (influenced by their own biased impressions of him) Nine started working with the Chaos Council, betrayed them all again to get ahead.
We the audience know just as Sonic does that Nine was captured, and that he used his status to aid Sonic and their search for the prism shards from the inside.
Rebel and Renegade do not.
In fact, (now starting from Season 2 Episode 5), Rebel and Renegade are both distrustful of Sonic when he tries to tell them this (and the fact that they see it as his fault that the Council nabbed more prism shards doesn't help)
"I'm gonna bust into the Yoke, grab the shards, and rescue Nine!"
"The fox with the attitude? The one who stole the shard?"
"I...know he's a little rough around the edges..."
"It's not just the edges."
"But he saved you!"
"And then he disappeared again."
"Because he was captured! We can trust him."
"Him? We don't even trust you."
Nine's actions matter to them, and those actions color their perception of Nine for a while. Same goes for Sonic. Their trust is not easily won back after being broken.
The only reason they decide to travel to the Yoke with Sonic in the first place is because they need to make sure the Coucil doesn't keep the shards, and Sonic is going there to try to take them anyways. They don't trust him, but they do need him.
Later in the episode, "Nine" contacts Sonic to tell him of a way into the Council's fortress. We can safely infer that this "Nine" who contacts Sonic is not the real thing. The voice sounds at best like a robotic imitation, and the way "Nine" talks is suspect enough for Sonic to mention that he sounds weird and to ask if he's okay. But not only do Rebel and Renegade have no reason not to believe that this is the real Nine leading Sonic into the Yoke, Sonic himself vouches for him.
"My inside fox is gonna get us in. Come on!"
"'Bring your friends.' Why would he say that?"
"Because he's a nice guy? I told you, we can trust him."
"Not like we have another option."
Whether Rebel believes that's the real Nine or not, she suspects Sonic is being led into a trap. Even Renegade says he "doesn't like this" and mentions how ominous everything feels when the doors into the Yoke open. They only go along with Sonic because they have no other ways to get into the building.
But lo and behold, it's a trap. Sure we the audience know that this is the Chaos Coucil's doing, that Mr. Dr. tricked Nine into giving him info about Sonic that would spark the idea of Chaos Sonic's creation. We know Nine regrets this slip up and even apologizes to Sonic later for being responsible for Chaos Sonic's creation, and we know Sonic doesn’t doubt Nine's telling the truth.
But to Rebel and Renegade? Sonic just followed his so called "inside fox" right into a trap. It plays into how they already see him, just as Sonic's forced transports to the other shatterspaces before this (via touching the shards) continued to play into how they already saw Sonic as a deserter. They distrust Nine for valid reasons, but it’s because of this distrust and their ideas of who Nine is that they believe the worst of him, even when the audience can see that Nine isn’t intending on betraying any given person.
And Chaos Sonic doesn’t help this view of Nine that Rebel and Renegrade have either.
"Failure? You've got the wrong hedgehog, pal."
"Au contraire, blue hair. I know a fox that might disagree with you."
"Another trap. I knew that fox would set us up!"
So when Nine contacts Sonic himself later...
"Sonic! Are you there?"
"Sorry, pal, but I'm a little busy at the moment."
"I have a plan. Follow my directions and lead it to me."
"Ya sure?"
"Positive. But you gotta hurry!"
"What else is new?"
Here's what Renegade, Rebel, and Dread have to save about it.
"Sonic, wait!"
"Ugh. I'm starting to think he likes traps."
"Aye. He does."
Again. We the audience know this isn't a trap. After following Nine's directions, Nine uses the prism energy to blast and destroy Chaos Sonic after this.
But Rebel and Renegade don't trust Nine. They see this as Sonic falling into all of Nine's traps out of naive trust.
And Dread only agrees because he did use Sonic's trust to lead him into a trap. Dread hasn't met Nine, but if others think this is a trap, he has no reason to believe anything other than Nine being another person weaponizing Sonic's blind trust.
And aside from when Renegade saves Sonic and Nine from Dread later, this is the last time Renegade or Rebel see/hear about Nine. Sometimes Nine really does betray their trust, sometimes Nine is truly trying to help Sonic, but after the initial betrayal, everything Renegade and Rebel see (in regards to Nine’s words and actions) plays into their point of view of Nine as a traitor.
Rebel and Renegade aren't insisting that Nine is going to betray Sonic because they're right and Nine is "secretly evil" and going to do just that or whatever. Sonic isn’t ignoring the "bad" things that Nine did only for Sonic to be punished with Nine being a bad traitor villain all along.
Rebel and Renegade keep insisting that Nine is a traitor because he left them behind, because he doesn't care about them, AND because every bit of evidence they see (a miniscule bit compared to what the audience sees) just so happens to play into their existing biased view of him.
Let's move on to Rusty Rose.
Now this portion is shorter, as she only has a single run in with Nine. This singular run in is during the first few episodes when Nine takes control of her to help him, Sonic, Rebel, and Renegade fight.
Now here's something important about Rusty we learn in Season 2.
1. Loyalty matters to her.
2. She can choose her own alignment.
Rusty Rose's lines to Sonic when he's in the Chaos Council's clutches, in addition to the fact that the Chaos Council turned her into a fighting machine, gives us a hint as to what's going on here.
"Survival required adaptation, as you will soon learn."
Rusty Rose has always cared about her well-being. But to those she is loyal to, she would give even her life. This is to say that whether she gave herself up as the Chaos Council's weapon for her own survival or whether they saved her and she decided to work with them because of this (and because they'd destroy her otherwise), she is loyal to them. At baseline, she is loyal because she believes they will never betray her, that they will always come for her.
How exactly do we learn this?
In season 2, while Dread and his crew still have Rusty Rose in captivity, she insists the Chaos Council will come for her, and even becomes smug when the council comes for the shard.
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The chaos council has come for me and the shard. Just as I said they would."
But in the end, the Chaos Council chooses to leave her after obtaining the shard. She seems surprised that they would betray her, even after following every order to the best of her ability and acting as they had programmed her to. And so, after the Council deserts her, she changes her loyalty (her eye turns pink from the red color) and decides to join Dread's crew.
This scene mirrors a point in the first few episodes.
When Nine briefly reprograms Rusty to work for him, her lone eye changes to the color yellow. Likewise, she's loyal to Nine and the rest and follows orders. And although we don't get to see her face in the Season 2 Episode 5 flashback when Nine emerges with the red shard as we do with Rebel and Renegade, we DO see her face when Nine leaves. If you look back to the screenshot I provided in the Rebel and Renegade section of this essay, you'll see that she looks sad and disappointed. She was betrayed and left behind too.
And what does she do when Nine leaves her behind? She restores her Chaos Council programming and her eye turns red again. She returns back to the only people she can seem to trust to value her.
So Rusty may not have spent much time with Nine, but loyalty matters to her. So all Rusty likely knows of Nine as of the ending of Season 2 is that he betrayed her.
I think with this in mind, it's safe to say that she has no reason to like him or believe in him at the moment either, even if she doesn't subscribe to common ideas of morality either. He betrayed his crew and it's as simple as that (and that's why she has no problem blasting Sonic when Dread frames him as a traitor).
Now for the Chaos Council.
Now, I think it's clear given the fact that they appropriated his tech and that Mr. Dr. Eggman (in S2 E6) referred to Nine as having a "less dull mind than the usual rifraff", the Council at the very least sees Nine as someone who is a bit more intelligent than most of New Yoke's citizens. Given that their goals are to continuously conquer and *gestures to all that they're doing* they're less concerned with morals and more concerned with their own goals. This means that they just dislike/hate anyone who gets in their way. Things like morals, relationships, etc are all things to manipulate to get what you want (if Mr. Dr. Eggman's talks with Nine are any indication).
So. How does the Council see Nine? Do they see him as someone secretly about to or willing to betray Sonic?
Let's start with their first impressions of Nine (or rather, how they will remember him).
In Season 1 Episodes 1 and 2, while Nine and Sonic are captured, Nine's life and wellbeing is largely used as motivation for Sonic to follow the Council's orders. Aside from this, though, most of the focus (the camera and the Council's) is on Sonic. So, from the events of Episode 2 and 3 of season 1 where Sonic, Nine, Renegade, Rebel, and Rusty fight their way to the red shard, it's simple enough for the Council to consider them all friends (sans Rusty). Doesn't matter if they actually are. They work together (and with Sonic who considers them all friends), so they might as well be friends to the Council. This is not to mention how Mr. Dr. watches Sonic and Nine enter where the shard is, are aware via the power shutting off that their energy crystal has been stolen, and then Sonic and Nine are the two that disappear before the Council can capture them. So at the very least Nine is...cunning. In their minds, he's smart enough to take the power crystal, but not so smart as to clash with the Council's egos.
Now, whether they knew only Nine had taken the red shard or they assumed both Nine and Sonic had coordinated (like Rebel and Renegade had originally assumed), it doesn't really matter here. In S1 E6, Sonic appears (clearly shardless) mentioning the existence of other shards and asking where Nine is (thus indicating he doesn't know where Nine and the red shard are). Then, during the Chaos Council vs Sonic + Resistance battle after this, Nine appears out of a portal with the red shard upon his craft.
And if they hadn't seen "the fox who stole the shard" as Sonic's friend before, there is clear evidence can see between now and the Mr. Dr. Eggman/Nine talk that leads to Chaos Sonic’s creation that they do now.
In Episode 8 of Season 1, the Council discusses eliminating Sonic in pursuit of their conquest, but Nine voices his dissent.
"Agreed. With our work complete, I'll give our girl-bot the go ahead on Operation Elimination."
"Tch. Eliminating the hedgehog is a bad idea."
"Arguing for the life of your friend? What a shock."
After this, Nine argues against the idea that he and Sonic are friends, but he ultimately convinces the council not to eliminate him outright.
"You sent your robots to another shatterspace. Big difference. You've only barely accomplished what he's done without any technology. He's a living shatter battery!"
*The power in the yoke dies briefly, and the coucil members each groan/make sounds of frustration*
"Til we know why he gives off this power, we need him alive. What? H– Grahck!"
*An eggforcer shocks Nine*
"The rat's right. Too many questions for us to start playing exterminator. At least...not until after we wring every ounce of shatterjuice out of that blue varmint."
Not only does he smile in talking about Sonic's accomplishments, but, if you check the end of this scene, Nine lowers his head when the council laughs over Dr. Done It's final statement, he grits his teeth, and he frowns.
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In Episode 4 of Season 2, the Council brings Nine out front, and Mr. Dr. sits there when Sonic arrives to see him.
"Nine?"
"Sonic, get out of here!"
*The Eggforcers shock Nine*
"No..."
In fact, when Mr. Dr. threatens the lives of Sonic’s friends if Sonic doesn’t give over the shard, he pointedly leans in Nine's direction as the eggforcers ready their electricity based weapons.
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"I'll make this simple."
*Mr. Dr. Eggman moves his chair closer to where Nine is*
"Hand over the shard, or say good bye to your friends forever."
In case you don't go back to watch the episode for this, also note that he begins to lean over during the "to your friends" part of the line, and Nine is the only one of Sonic’s friends in view of the camera as Mr. Dr. gives the ultimatum. The camera only shifts to include Sonic's captured friends after shifting between Nine and Sonic's expressions, and after Sonic turns around to look at them.
So I don't think it's a stretch to say that Mr. Dr. Eggman thinks Sonic and Nine are friends by this point. At the very very least he knows Sonic considers Nine one, given how comfortable he is using Nine as leverage.
Anyhow, in all of the Nine/Chaos Council scenes between his initial capture and the scene where Mr. Dr. asks Nine how to defeat Sonic, the council isn't fully aware of Nine contacting Sonic. This means they are not yet aware of his continued contact with Sonic and do not know what the audience knows about Nine's working them from the inside. They just make Nine upgrade their shatterdrive, remark that they keep him around for his knowledge on the shatterdrive, make him deploy eggforcers, and then keep him cuffed with eggforcer supervision at all times (should he try to escape). They don't trust him enough to keep him uncuffed and completely unsupervised, and they need his knowledge regarding the shards, but they underestimate him. Dr. Don't provides him full access to their systems, even when they leave Nine alone with Eggforcers, they aren't monitoring what Nine could be saying/doing behind their back, and they seem to think they have Nine under their thumbs enough to destroy him should he attempt to fight back.
Let's move on to Season 2 Episode 5.
In Nine's first appearance in this episode, he's led into the room the Council is in by some Eggforcers and employs his "attitude".
"Ahem. You rang for me?"
"How long are we putting up with him?"
"He's built us what we want. Get rid of him already."
"Now, now. We're going to put him to work. But this one posseses a—shall we say—less dull mind than the usual riff-raff. He'll appreciate this."
Then, the council gives Nine a demonstration of the power they possess with the three shards in their possessions and uses it to build upgraded eggforcers for the purpose of quashing Sonic and the resistance. What is the purpose of this in tandem with Mr. Dr. Eggman's "compliment"? I think the next scene involving Nine and the council gives us a bit more context to form an idea.
During this scene, we see that the council has Nine standing before their display, watching Sonic and the resistance fight upgraded bots in the scareport.
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"Enjoying the show?"
"It won't be enough."
"Enough?! Balderdash! My jumbo eggforcers will pound that varmint into blueberry jelly!"
"We'll see."
"Yes. We will."
With the combination of "complimenting" Nine, showing off their power and harnessing of the shards after discussing the topic of getting rid of him, and making him watch the upgraded bots fight Sonic, it's clear to me that they're making a power play here (or at least, Mr. Dr. Eggman is). Mr. Dr. is trying to make it clear the might they possess, the futility of rebellion or of trying to disobey orders.
But here, after Nine says "We'll see", I think Mr. Dr. decides to swap tactics a little. They're still trying (and failing) to defeat Sonic, and Nine seems to believe no matter what that Sonic will come out on top. Perhaps Mr. Dr. at least realizes that their display of power is not scaring Nine into submission or causing him to give up on Sonic.
"You admire him, don't you? For all of your bluster, you think of him as a friend. Funny. I thought you were smart."
And I don't see any reason why Mr. Dr. Eggman would lie about an observation like this. If it was about aligning Nine as Sonic's friend while Nine is secretly planning to betray Sonic or doesn't like him, then the focus wouldn't be on Nine's intelligence. To reiterate, Nine's friendship status (or at least, whether he believes Sonic to be his friend) is not put into question so much as how "smart" of a move it is to place his faith and friendship in Sonic. It's manipulation tactic to put Nine's trust in Sonic into question, to again try to get him to lose faith in Sonic. Why? Well...why else? Nine is Sonic's "friend" to the Council, right? So Nine is their best chance at figuring out how to destroy Sonic.
"We both know that the other members of the council won't stop Sonic. They lack vision and imagination. Unlike you."
"You think I have vision and imagination?"
"Perhaps. Or perhaps you're just a stupid fox. Alone. Useless. Pathetic."
Here it's incredibly clear the way Mr. Dr. is trying to use Nine's insecurities against him. Even if he's only guessing, talking up or insulting his intelligence and talents or playing into a possible fear of loneliness and uselessness is a really good guess.
But when Nine gets ahold of himself, uses his tails to gain height and push Mr. Dr. back this time, and insults the Council's intelligence, Mr. Dr. resorts back to brute force. He laughs off the insults and brandishes one of those electricity based weapons.
"Tell me how to defeat Sonic!"
Of course, if Nine was only using Sonic for his own purposes of gathering the shards and secretly planning on betraying him, he could have done so at any point before now, or made it clear that he's set the plans in motion. But since we know Nine's confident in his ability to fight for himself and escape during episode 6 of season 2, he believes himself to have more control over his situation than anyone else does. With this in mind, as long as he's guaranteed a clean enough getaway with the shards he can choose to do so. This gives Nine the ability to manipulate the council back and use them to get the shards. And, to an extent, he does! Although Sonic fails in securing any of them, Nine puts himself in a position to use the council to get anything he wants, even telling Sonic that he's working them from the inside. With this in mind, while there is still risk involved, I believe that he doesn’t necessarily need Sonic's help.
This is all to say that any of these moments in Season 2 Episode 5 would have been a fine point to betray Sonic by telling the council everything he knows about him. The council is full of idiots (to Nine)—idiots with power, but idiots nonetheless. He very well could have used the council to get Sonic out of the way while continuing to play them so he could escape with all the shards.
And yet not only does he refuse to knowingly tell Mr. Dr. Eggman any weaknesses of Sonic’s, he trusts Sonic. Just see the way he's so sure Sonic will win, even as Mr. Dr. Eggman is trying to make him feel stupid for doing so. See how Nine talked about Sonic in S1 E8, tried to convince the council they’d be idiots to get rid of Sonic. See the way that Nine chooses to risk his own plans by contacting Sonic as regularly as he can. See just how Nine talks about Sonic when Mr. Dr. Eggman stops attempting to appeal to Nine's insecurities to get him to lose trust in Sonic:
"You can't. He's too fast. He thinks on his feet. No matter what you throw at him, he takes it. No matter how hard you hit him, he always gets back up! You'll never beat Sonic, because you can't understand him. You don't think like he thinks. You're not even in the same league.
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And what does Nine do when Mr. Dr. Eggman and the Council treat those words as if he sold Sonic out (knowingly or not)? He tries to take it back. He says "what have I done?" He immediately tries to contact Sonic (likely to warn him), not realizing Dr. Don't had entered the room until he's caught in the act.
"Warning your friend? Not cool."
He doesn’t at all look pleased watching the Council create Chaos Sonic. He says "what have I done?" a second time while watching Sonic fight Chaos Sonic. Even Dr. Done It regards Nine's "selling out your blue chum" as a slip of the tongue.
And what does the Council do when they learn that Nine's been in contact with Sonic all along? Well they use this relationship to their advantage, of course.
Ah, ah, ah. Let's not be hasty. The fox can lure Sonic right to us."
After all of this, from now until the ending of season 2, here is what the council knows about Nine. They know he managed to steal all the shards out from under them again (with Sonic's assistance), and they pretty much just attempt to track him down to take the shards back. After arriving at Ghost Hill, they put most of their focus on fighting Sonic and Shadow to get to where Nine is with the shards, dealing with their immediate obstacles. They're also firmly antagonistic against Nine, as he's stolen the shards from them and is no longer under their control.
So let's summarize what we can safely assume the Council knows and believes by the Ghost Hill battle. Nine is intelligent, and his know-how and tech are extremely useful. They'd underestimated him, allowing him to steal the shards under their noses, contact Sonic to feed him information, and escape with said shards. They know that Nine trusts Sonic, considers Sonic a friend (at the very least), and believes Sonic will come out on top.
So we return to those questions.
How does the Chaos Council see Nine? As a tool to be used for his information, his intelligence, his technology, and his limbs, capable of performing work. They see him as Sonic's friend (an important one at that). He's bait for Sonic, a pawn that can be used to lure Sonic or motivate him to make certain choices. He's to be used when he can be, and to be crushed if he opposes the Council or is no longer useful.
Do they see him as someone secretly about to or willing to betray Sonic? Do they try to get Nine to betray him? Yes! They command him to dispatch eggforcers and upgrade their tech. They use his well-being as a bargaining chip or to lure Sonic into a trap. They're constantly using him against Sonic. They can see he has the potential to betray, which is exactly why Mr. Dr. appeals to his insecurities to persuade Nine to give up information on Sonic and let go of his trust in Sonic. And yet...they don't seem to think Nine is actively planning to betray Sonic. If they thought so, why spend so much time trying to convince him that placing faith in Sonic is stupid? Why not actively try to persuade Nine to work with them instead? Why do they keep on having to try? Why do they enjoy watching Nine protest as they laugh about how Nine betrayed Sonic? (And why does the insuation that it's all Nine's fault that the council could destroy Sonic get to him the way it does?)
Let's talk about Shadow the Hedgehog.
Shadow (similar to Rebel and Renegade) is a character than people often forget to consider the full pov of. This is to say that I've seen people forget what it is exactly that Shadow knows, and what of his knowledge informs his actions and beliefs (like people believing that Shadow was stupid for thinking that getting Nine's tech would allow him to traverse the shatterverse, forgetting that he didn't even have a tenth of the knowledge Sonic does of everything going on, much less the audience's, by season 2).
So with this in mind, before Shadow and Sonic talk at the beginning of Season 2, what does Shadow know about Nine, and how does he act based upon this knowledge?
Before Season 2, we, the audience, largely see Shadow appear in either flashbacks or trying to talk to Sonic (which happens when he starts to run fast enough to exit the shatterspace or is hurled through the in between after touching a shard), so it’s hard to know the extent of what he knows or can even gather in those moments of communication. Luckily, Season 2 Episode 1 gives us a chance to see some things from Shadow's point of view.
Unluckily, it's a bit hard to determine what exactly Shadow can hear and see at this point, as the first Shadow pov sprinkles in a couple moments Shadow most likely could not have seen (but we cannot rule out him seeing)—moments that tell the audience what point in time everything is occurring. One such moment is when Shadow is chilling on a crystal in the space between the shatterspaces and we see the scene of Sonic being sucked into the red shard before he shoots out of the New Yoke portal entrance. This is to say, it's hard to know for sure whether Shadow is aware of all of the scenes that play out for the audience, such as the clips that play as Shadow punches the entrance to New Yoke (Sonic losing control of his feet/legs, the shot of Mr. Dr. watching Sonic run, etc).
What we can glean from context, though (during this portion, as well as later moments) is that Shadow can at the very least see and hear Sonic, even possibly some of his surroundings (within limits). At the beginning of Episode 1 of Season 2, we can see Sonic sort of partially phase through the portal and into the in between when he runs fast enough (parallel to how Shadow can begin to partly phase into the shatterspace from Sonic's pov if Shadow is around him). During Season 2, namely during the No Place portion as Sonic tries to make off with the blue shard, we can even watch Shadow hold a conversation with Sonic and see changes to his appearance (such as the red dot of light on Sonic as Dread's crew aims to blast him). And finally, during Season 2 Episode 1, Shadow admits that he saw Nine in his lab giving Sonic the tech and the lab Sonic ran fast in (scenes that played for the audience while Shadow was busy punching the New Yoke portal).
Okay, so let's consider what we can see before Shadow confronts Sonic in the space between. At the very very least, he's aware that Sonic has new tech on his gloves and shoes and can hear everything Sonic says when Shadow manages to reach him through the portals. At the very most, he has some strange unexplained telepathy that allows him to see and hear some of what Sonic sees and hears. Of course, I don't personally believe the latter, as this hasn't really come up or been explained. So in my opinion, at most he can just see and hear what's going on and Sonic’s surroundings within certain limits. Under this interpretation, I believe that it's possible he saw and heard some of the scenes the audience sees here such Nine talking about energy, Sonic losing control, etc (if his admittance of seeing Nine and Sonic in the lab as Nine puts the regulators on Sonic is anything to go by).
So what does this mean for Shadow's knowledge? I believe it's safe to infer that, from Shadow's pov, the tech Sonic got from the strange version of Tails (Nine) has some sort of effect on him (as Sonic started to move through shatterspaces after this).
The next piece of knowledge we know Shadow could learn is the existence of alternate versions of people in the different shatterspaces. When Shadow finally gets ahold of Sonic, Sonic (loudly) starts trying to sus out whether Shadow is "grumpy Shadow" or "Shadow who needs a shower" or "Sheriff Shadow" or whoever. Then, after this, he realizes that this is the original Shadow he's faced with.
"Shadow, you're...you! The real you!"
"The only me."
This is info enough for Shadow to learn there are other versions of people they (Sonic and Shadow) know out in the shatterspaces. It's even enough context to assume that they are copies of the real thing, fakes, if Sonic's wording of "the real you" is anything for him to go by.
Here are the next two bits of information to add to Shadow's abilities and what he knows (one we learn about Shadow, and one tidbit that adds to Shadow's knowledge). The first is a bit of a testimony of just what he can see when Sonic kicks up a lot of prism energy.
"Have...you been able to see me this whole time?"
"Not exactly. When you get going fast, you kick up prism energy, and it thins the veil to the void. It's like it's...opening a portal through the gateway."
So, at the very least, we know that Shadow can't just see Sonic whenever he wants, and hasn't been doing so the whole time. As Sonic kicks up prism energy by running fast, it thins the veil to the place in between, allowing Sonic and Shadow to see each other.
The second bit would be Shadow hearing about Nine for the first time.
"So that must be how I teleported into No Place. I was looking for Nine, I started running fast, and then, suddenly, I portaled out of New Yoke."
This isn't a lot, but it at least tells us that the existence of Nine has entered the equation here. A being that Sonic knows by name who exists in one of the shatterspaces, and someone that Sonic was specifically looking for.
Now, I want to bring up something interesting about Shadow's pov after he and Sonic enter Ghost Hill. Aside from some possible tidbits here and there (and more than likely experience solely through seeing and talking to Sonic), the bulk of Shadow's experiences with the shatterspaces are based upon his experience with Ghost Hill (the only shatterspace he can enter at this time).
"What’s wrong with them?"
"It's a shatterspace, Sonic. Just like the others. A cruel version to make us suffer."
"A cruel version to make us suffer"
That line alone gives us more insight into Shadow's pov. While we, the audience, can see that the existence of those who live in the shatterspaces aren't inherently existing out of cruelty/to mess with someone like Sonic, Shadow has only seen what Ghost Hill is like. This tells us that Shadow sees Ghost Hill as a cruel version of Green Hill, an imitation that allows you to see but not have. It shows you the places and faces and voices you know, but none of it is "real" (or in this case, the original). It's not even surprising for Shadow to feel that this is cruel or purposeful. I mean, he is the one trapped, unable to do anything, as Sonic just so happens to be the one with the power to fix anything. He is the one who's doomed to watch the shatterverse change while he can't do a thing about it. And so of course the only shatterspace he can enter tricks him into thinking it may have been home (the home that's gone). Of course that shatterspace is filled with imitations that seem like what he lost but cannot be.
While Sonic is on his hero's journey, Shadow is stuck in a genre more psychological. So of course, via his experiences being stuck and his only experience with one of the shatterspaces, he'd assume the entire shatterverse was designed this way.
So, to sum this up a little bit. It is entirely likely that Shadow sees the inhabitants of the shatterverse as not only fake copies, but of those whose existence is part of a cruel game to make he and Sonic suffer over the shattering of the prism and the loss of their home. Does this make sense? It not only inherently hurts, but it’s designed to be cruel.
Shadow has only met the "ghosts" of Ghost Hill at this point. He doesn't fully know what we the audience know—that the inhabitants of the shatterspaces are real people with lives and backstories.
Now, with all of this in mind, how does Shadow first approach Sonic regarding the knowledge he has? Remember. It's, baseline, that Sonic can enter shatterpaces while he can't, Sonic started moving through shatterspaces after obtaining the tech on his gloves and shoes from a being who resembles Tails, Sonic creates portals and thins the veil between shatterspaces and the void when he runs fast, that "Nine" is an inhabitant of one of the shatterspaces Sonic knows and looked for at some point, that Ghost Hill is the only shatterspace he can enter, that Ghost Hill resembles and immitates Green Hill to a degree of cruelty, and that he believes that all the shatterspaces are "cruel" versions of his and Sonic’s home with fake versions of people they know, crafted specifically to make the two of them suffer.
"Yeah...yeah, that could work! It has to work! We gotta show Nine. He's like super smart! He knows a ton about prism energy. He–"
"No."
"No?"
"No."
"Why 'no'? I just said he's, like, super smart."
"He can’t be trusted."
If there's one bit from the Shadow portion so far I need to point out, it's this. Shadow asserts that Nine cannot be trusted. Shadow has never even met Nine at this point, only seen him standing in the lab with Sonic. How can he be so sure that Nine—or the other inhabitants for that matter—are specifically untrustworthy? Not even just fake imitations. Untrustworthy.
Why does Shadow jump to this conclusion?
"What are you talking about? Of course he can. He's just like Tails. He's just a little...angsty, that's all."
Again, there is no proof that Shadow has even seen much more than maybe an image of Nine, much less met him. Sonic's sticking up for Nine's attitude again, just like he did when talking to Rebel and Renegade, but Shadow cannot even know much of anything about Nine. He should not have a bias (beyond looks) based upon knowing Nine.
And this also means that, most likely, Shadow cannot assert that Nine is untrustworthy due to any solid evidence like Rebel or Renegade can, for example.
"He's not Tails. He's Nine. And they're not. Your real. Friends."
"Dude. He's real. This is his reality. And you know what else is real? Nine's tech on my kicks and punching sticks. So back up off Nine."
So, again. Why does Shadow jump to the conclusion that Nine and the other inhabitants of the shatterspaces are untrustworthy? This is what I think based upon the evidence we've gathered in this section.
I believe that it's entirely possible that Shadow sees himself stuck in a psychological horror. Based on his experiences living in the shatterverse so far, this reality they're in is like a punishment game. He and Sonic are both being punished for how Sonic shattered the paradox prism. Their home is gone, everything is broken. Unless they can fix it, the shatterverse is the setting of this cruel game, filled with shatterspaces (pale imitations of the home they lost) and the copies—fake beings��who inhabit it that were created with the sole purpose of hurting Sonic and Shadow. They hold similarities of the settings and the faces of the people they know as if to taunt (or to remind what they lost and cannot have). Logically under this framework, if Shadow believes that the inhabitants of the shatterverse have an inherently cruel existence and exist to make them hurt, then them seeming real is a distraction from the fact that they're designed to hurt (think...how Yen Sid tells Sora in Kingdom Hearts 2 that Nobodies are fake people, and any emotion they show is a manipulation tactic to make people believe that they're real). But Sonic is not only acting like they're real, considering them friends, he's trusting them. Perhaps Shadow feels...angry, because the only other "real" person (the one who caused all this) keeps chasing these living lies and believing them when they say/act like they can help end this hurt (help "fix" everything, restore it to how it used to be). Perhaps to him, these people (Nine included) are beings who wish to bring hurt, so why, then, would they help end that hurt or erase their own existences by "fixing" everything? Maybe Shadow thinks Sonic is being stupid, that he's placing his trust in Nine only because he sees Tails' face (falling for the lie), and is also angry because Sonic would stick up for and trust Nine rather than believe him—someone who is real and wants to end the hurt.
Okay okay, I'll stop there for now. That's moreso an interpretation I think you can derive from the beginning of Episode 1 of Season 2 up to this point rather than necessarily fact or authorial intent. I just think it's...food for thought.
Of course I also happen to think that Shadow, with his limited knowledge of who Nine even is, also chooses to insist that Nine specifically is untrustworthy because he becomes jealous that Sonic values a "fake" so much and thinks of him so highly, trusting him even over Shadow (someone who is real and clearly just wants to help Sonic as well as fix everything).
In any case, here are the facts up to this point. Shadow has heard Nine's name, knows the tech on Sonic was designed by him, watched Nine put the tech on Sonic, thinks this tech Nine created allows Sonic to traverse the shatterverse, and knows Nine is smart and "like Tails" because Sonic speaks highly of him. With this evidence, Shadow believes Nine is untrustworthy. He also believes the inhabitants of the shatterspaces aren't real and cannot be Sonic's friends. Shadow also grows angry when Sonic tries to argue and assert that Nine is trustworthy and that he and his other friends are real.
After Season 2 Episode 1, Shadow takes more of a backseat role. While we get to see his pov at times, or even watch him talk to Sonic, he can only see inside the shatterspaces to any extent while Sonic is kicking up enough prism energy. This, of course, means that Shadow is still not privy to most of the information Sonic and the audience are.
In Season 2 Episode 2, Shadow (to our knowledge) is not privy to much going on. In fact, with what we know about the limitations he has of seeing inside the shatterspaces, he could have seen during the portions Sonic is particularly speeding, but none of these occur in relation to Nine. This is all to say that we the audience could see the scene where Nine contacted Sonic through the eggforcer, explained how he was infiltrating the Council from the inside, and upgraded Sonic's tech to make gathering the shards easier, but Shadow does not.
Here is the only conversation between Nine and Sonic in Episode 2 of Season 2 that Shadow was privy to any of.
"Hang on, Nine. I'm comin' for ya."
"No. Don't worry about me. I'm working on a plan to get the shards from the inside. The best thing for you to do is to get the next shard before they do."
"Are you sure?"
"Totally! These eggheads are playing into my hands. They don't—"
"—been dowloading their tech. You just need to get to the shard first, then get out. I better go."
At that last bit of dialogue (beginning with "You"), Sonic lands on a crystal out in the place between. After Nine hangs up on him, the camera zooms out, revealing Shadow standing on the shard next to him.
"That's the first time one of them has made any sense."
It's hard to know for sure how long Shadow has been listening to Sonic's conversation, but given just how far away he'd have to be stalking Sonic when he exits Boscage maze (far enough to hear without being within range of the camera), I think it's safe to assume he's at least listened to the lines Nine and Sonic spoke as Sonic landed on that piece of crystal. That line specifically was Nine instructing Sonic to get the No Place shard before the Chaos Council does, which lines up with the immediate goal Sonic and Shadow would have. This is to say that if Shadow heard this line at least, it makes sense for him to "compliment" Nine by saying that he makes any sort of sense.
Although I also believe Shadow says "That's the first time one of them has made any sense" because Nine is one of the first inhabitant of the shatterverse Shadow's heard that isn't exactly like the "ghosts" of Ghost Hill (essentially, seems to actually think rather than repeating a single line endlessly.
What this scene adds to Shadow's knowledge is that no matter how much of the convo he heard, he has reason to believe that Nine is also seeking the paradox prism shards. However, just because Shadow knows a motivation of Nine's and more of what he's like doesn't mean he trusts him. Or, at least, Sonic takes Shadow's attitude as him still being openly distrustful of Nine. Given how short Shadow is with Sonic, even spin dashing him into the No Place portal entrance, I don't find it too much of a stretch to assert that his attitude here is a mixture of his frustration at not being able to go himself and the relationship/trust Sonic insists on keeping up with Nine (rather than just "how he acts usually").
"Nine's on our side, Shadow. And if you're not gonna help, you can–"
"Oh. I can help."
Although Shadow shows up in Season 2 Episodes 3 and 4 to talk to Sonic and to delay the Chaos Council's mothership's arrival in No Place, none of these really involve Nine. In any of the moments Shadow could have seen Sonic in No Place, they were Sonic running away for the most part (trying to escape with the shard), which of course doesn't exactly help the pov he has of the shatterverse inhabitants. Though Nine also contacts Sonic and is able to see him during this portion, these do not coincide with the times Shadow talks to him. Likewise, although Nine was on the mothership while Shadow was attacking it, neither of them see each other, and there is no evidence to suggest that they are aware of each other's presence (as in, that Shadow knows Nine is on the mothership and Nine knows that Shadow is the attacker). With Shadow being largely absent the way he is, it stands to reason he still has no chance to see the complexity and humanity of the shatterspaces' inhabitants, especially since he's in contact with Sonic as Sonic is running away (trying not to get killed).
As for Episodes 5 and 6 of Season 2. Shadow only shows up once between these two. Specifically, Shadow's pov is shown in Episode 6 as he reacts to how the shatterverse is beginning to break down. Other than that, though, the only moments he'd have to peek into what's happening (offscreen in this case) would be while Sonic is running fast enough. During Episode 5 and most of 6, these moments Sonic may be running fast enough for Shadow to peek in on him are all while he's fighting. This, again, doesn't give Shadow a chance to really gauge the character of New Yoke's residents (aside from the council), much less a chance to see what's going on with Nine.
Even in Episode 7 of Season 2, Shadow doesn't show up until the scene in which he properly meets Nine. With this in mind, aside from Episode 1 of Season 2, Shadow is very rarely present during Season 2 before his first official meeting with Nine.
So, to summarize, this is what Shadow knows/thinks about Nine before properly meeting him. Nine is similar to Tails (in both looks and intelligence), Nine built the tech that Sonic wears on his gloves and shoes, Sonic trusts Nine and fancies him a friend, even going so far as to stick up for the idea that he's real and trustworthy, and Nine is also gathering the paradox prism shards.
That's...it. That's all. And Shadow knew even less when he'd initially claimed that Nine wasn't trustworthy. Before their official meeting, Shadow saw Nine maybe once via what he saw during Sonic's first arrival in New Yolk, and he heard him speak once after S2 E2, when he told Sonic to focus on getting the next shard. He has...such little context/knowledge compared to the audience.
Now, the first meeting. After Sonic and Nine enter the space between with the shards in Episode 7 of Season 2, Shadow catches the container for the shards with Nine on top.
"It's about time."
"Nine, meet Shadow. Shadow, meet Nine."
"You're not another version of Sonic...but you could be twins!"
"Hardly. I am the ultimate life form."
"Don't listen to him. Come on."
Personally, I don't feel as if Shadow acts differently than usual in this scene. He doesn't talk very much, doesn't greet Nine, and isn't necessarily "friendly", but, again, none of this is out of the ordinary for him. The only thing I can confidently say here is that Sonic’s problem is Shadow's attitute, which is why he tells Nine to ignore him. However, he responds as this is a usual thing as well. "He's always like this. Just ignore him." He is also not going out of his way to be mean or vindictive towards Nine. Even Nine (despite his talking about Sonic and Shadow's resemblance) can't have done more than mildly annoy Shadow.
No, what's more significant than the first meeting (for the purposes of this essay) is actually Nine's reaction to seeing Tails in Ghost Hill.
"This world... It's like an embryonic shatterspace. Like it got stuck in the blueprint phase while forming. Hmm... Perhaps it would be useful in finishing The Grim."
"As long as I'm around, you'll always have a wingman!"
"This is the friend Sonic thought was like me? Heh. We're nothing alike."
After this interaction occurs, the camera switches to Shadow, who begins to make this face.
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There are two bits from Nine's words I believe could be of interest to Shadow here.
"Perhaps it would be useful in finishing The Grim."
"We're nothing alike."
Why?
Well, let's tackle the first one. One thing that Shadow knows about Nine is that Nine is also looking for the paradox prism shards. Sonic seems to think Nine is on his side, but Shadow hasn't trusted Nine and his intentions from the beginning (as I went a bit into earlier going over Shadow's opinions on Nine as of Episode 1 of Season 2). So if Shadow did hear this line (and it's a bit unclear, but not impossible, that he did), he has reason to believe that Nine doesn't want the shards for the same reason Shadow believes himself and Sonic do. Or, at the very least, that Nine just has different goals in general.
As for the second one, Shadow told Sonic all the way back in Episode 1 that Nine isn't Tails, that he can't be trusted, and that Nine (as well as the other variants) isn't one of Sonic's "real" friends. A statement like "We're nothing alike" straight from Nine's mouth would be validating in this case. It validates Shadow's opinion that Sonic is being stupid and that Nine and Tails aren't the same, and it can easily give Shadow less reason to trust him. After all, if Tails is someone who generally is considered a "good" person or someone who would logically try to help fix everything, but Nine is not at all like him... That line could put Shadow off because he's already distrustful of him, and because of the potential implications Nine could be making from as Shadow's pov. This is to say that although Nine here is only rejecting the idea that he is just like Tails (or really, just like anyone and not his own unique being), Shadow is already biased against him. With Nine's wording, it's not hard for Shadow to insert intent/implications where there are none in his interpretation of the line.
Now, what I find interesting after this (in addition to Shadow's lack of hostility towards Nine despite his assumptions back in Season 2 Episode 1) is the attitude change.
Of course Shadow may have been angrier at Sonic back then, but he had also asserted so confidently back then that Nine isn't Sonic's friend as isn't to be trusted (and not even confidently, but as if annoyed or angry). But he...fulfill's Nine's wish to be alone with the prism shards, offers to take Sonic out, and gives him a calmer talk at the end of Episode 7 of Season 2.
"How do you know you can trust him?"
...
"I don't think your 'friend' wants the same thing we do."
Vs.
"He can’t be trusted."
...
"He's not Tails. He's Nine. And they're not. Your real. Friends."
There are a multitude of reasons this change in tone and demeanor Shadow has could be. It could be because he calmed down a bit more since S2 E1, it could be that he's decided to take a different approach when talking to Sonic about Nine, it could be that he's not so overly confident in his belief that the variants are all just "cruel versions to make us suffer" anymore after meeting Nine (or at least that the variants are so one dimensional), or it could even be that he's decided that Nine is helpful but Sonic should be more on guard. It's...hard to know which or how many are the truth here. All we know is that there is an outright change between these scenes and even Shadow's attitude, and that, despite the little interaction they've had, what Shadow's seen and heard is enough for him to come to the conclusion that Nine may not have good intentions and/or that Nine isn't actually trying to help them. Just like with Rebel and Renegade, whether Shadow has valid reasons or reasoning we can understand from his pov on Nine's character and intentions, his heavy bias he had even before meeting Nine colors all the information Shadow learns about him. This is all to say that (like Renegade and Rebel) it's easy for even actions/statements that have no inherent bad intentions to just feed back into his existing bias against Nine.
So, just in case, I'll reiterate. Shadow does have enough evidence to suspect that Nine doesn't truly share his and Sonic's goals, and he has enough pre-existing bias based upon his first impressions of the Ghost Hill variants to be suspicious of Nine's intentions and character. However, he has still barely met, seen, or heard about Nine second-hand. He knows very few facts about Nine other than how he's intelligent, is looking for the shards too, and is someone Sonic clearly has some attachment to. Yet...he seems to feel that Nine is untrustworthy (perhaps even on gut instinct) despite the lack of solid proof.
Well, actually, he doesn't just feel, this way. He actually tells Sonic that he distrusts Nine.
"What about him? We can't just leave him alone with the prism shards."
"Uhhh, yes we can, seeing as how he's the only one who can put them back together. You know, fix reality. You really don't trust him, do ya?"
"No."
"Of course you don't. You don't trust anyone."
He doesn’t actually tell Sonic why he doesn't. If anything, throughout this whole scene of them talking about Nine, he seems not to understand why Sonic does trust Nine (why he and Sonic aren't on the same page). Perhaps it just feels...obvious to Shadow? But even then, with Shadow's facial expressions as Sonic takes the "Why wouldn't we trust him?" stance, it seems to be that Shadow's point of view remains to be that of "Sonic is trusting him naively. This is something that could cost us."
Finally, we arrive at the final episode of Season 2. Despite his distrust in Nine (like Renegade and Rebel before him regarding Sonic), he has no choice but to join Sonic in the battle against the Chaos Council. First, Sonic's right in saying that Nine is the only person they have right now who can recomplete the prism. Second, he doesn't want to leave Sonic to fight the Council alone.
Now, while Sonic is in communication with Nine during the battle, he rarely talks to him around Shadow. The only moment he does is when eggforcers breach the mountain and put the prism's security and Nine's safety in jeopardy, to which Shadow only tells Sonic to go and protect the prism. Out of the two, I feel as if it's clear that Shadow trusts himself to hold his own over Sonic (I mean, he felt as if he (Shadow) was the best one to gather the shards in S2 E1, and he just made a statement about how badly the battles go when Sonic fights alone), so it makes sense why he'd send Sonic off to fight some eggforcers while he himself holds his own against the council, giving Sonic his chance to move. This is all to say that it makes sense why Shadow doesn't choose to be the one to protect the prism here, but we should also keep in mind just how in the dark Shadow is about what's happening with Nine.
In fact, Shadow isn't privy to anything happening in the prism chamber for a while. He didn't see Sonic and Nine's interaction, didn't watch Nine power Sonic up with the shard energy, Sonic didn't give him a detailed answer on how he got stronger and who was involved (only that he "got a power up"), Shadow doesn't see Nine power Sonic up to defeat the prismatic Titan, and Shadow–
Pause.
That scene in the final episode. You know, the one where Sonic returns after defeating the prismatic titan, Nine says that they were just using the blueprint to figure out what shards went where so they could complete the prism, and Sonic asserts they've actually been doing it to fix Green Hill? The part where Sonic and Nine disagree over whether it's possible to fix Green Hill, whether they should fix what was or move on and create a new home?
The part where Sonic accidentally implies Nine isn’t real to him?
A scene in which Shadow would be able to clearly see Nine's motivations?
The ENTIRE lead up to Nine taking the shards and deciding to leave Sonic behind?
Yeah ha ha...ha...ahah...
Shadow doesn't see any of that. You want to know when Shadow arrives? What he sees?
All he sees is Nine with all the shards at the edge of a portal, Sonic trying to get him to stay and Nine leaving (choosing not to trust Sonic). Practically all Shadow sees of Nine and Sonic interacting while they don't know he's there is Nine "betraying" Sonic and stealing the shards. He misses the entire complicated conversation and everything that lead up to the event.
Again, Shadow misses any nuance and any context that might allow him to see Nine more as he is. Nine leaving with the shards, betraying them and blowing off Sonic's attempts to appeal to him? It just feeds right back into Shadow's existing bias against Nine.
Shadow didn't trust Nine. He thought Sonic was naive for choosing to trust Nine. He felt that Nine didn't share the same goals as him.
Of course Nine steals the shards, betrays Sonic (who'd believed in and trusted him so so much, Shadow knows), and leaves them to die. Shadow already thought the variants were practically designed to make him and Sonic suffer, and what best to make Sonic suffer by having his trust broken by a fake wearing the face of his best friend, right?
Shadow did not have proof or real reason to believe Nine to be evil or planning to betray Sonic. He didn't even have half the physical proof Rebel and Renegade had when they decided Nine was traitorous. Shadow just always felt that Nine couldn't be trusted, and frustrated and annoyed for some reason that Sonic didn't agree.
Does this make Shadow a good judge of Nine's character? Was Shadow really right because he was seeing the signs all along, or was it because everything that happened just so happened to line up with his pre-existing bias (like back when Chaos Sonic implied Nine was involved with the trap, and Renegade assumed that Nine had set up the entire trap because of course the "traitorous fox" would)?
For now, let's move on to the last point of view. How does Sonic see Nine? Is Sonic really just some naive hedgehog who trusted a fox—a fox who was clearly always planning to betray him—just because he wore the face of his missing best friend? Up until the end of season 2, did Sonic just refuse to see or miss all the red flags—all the signs that Nine was always going to betray him in the end?
Let's start from the very beginning. Season 1 Episode 1: Shattered.
What not a single person can overstate is how Sonic’s initial perception of every variant and their character is heavily rooted in his own bias. In this case the "bias" at hand is Sonic either assuming the variants are one of his original friends (like when he thought Nine was just Tails who had forgotten him), or somehow connected to them. In my Sonine Prime essay series I have talked a few times during S1 about how Sonic is largely going through Season 1 trying to guess what's happening around him with his limited knowledge of everything at hand, his lack of knowledge of the genre he's in, and his scrambling to explain things without there being someone like Tails to understand it for him. At first he believes Nine is Tails but missing some of his important memories. Then he believes that Nine, Rusty, Rebel, and Renegade are just his friends but "messed up" (still with the idea that they don't remember him). Then he realizes that there are multiple variants and comes to the conclusion that they are all part of the originals or contain pieces of the original deep down. Sonic’s idea of the reality of the variants continues to change until he at baseline believes they are all their own real people.
But where does Nine fit into all this? Just how much does Sonic's original perception of him as "just Tails" affect how he sees Nine by the end or season 2? Does Sonic actually just 100% see him as a replacement for Tails rather than his own person?
Well, I can answer that last question now if you wish. The answer is no, but the entire thing is eh...complicated.
In Episode 1 of Sonic Prime, after participating in an entire fight scene against Nine (who he believes to be Tails fighting him for some reason or Tails who doesn't remember him and home), Sonic explains what he knows of Tails' backstory. In return, Nine reacts as if Sonic knows details about him that no one should know, but then goes on to explain what actually happened to him. Sonic, of course, begins to have a reaction based on this.
I will remind you that, at this point in time, Sonic believes that Eggman succeeded in taking over Green Hill. He believes that this is is home, and that Nine, Rebel, Renegade, etc are his original friends.
"...Doesn't make sense. You are Tails, but– you're not... Here, but...gone?"
As of here through to the end of Episode 3, we have reason to believe that Sonic believes that Nine is Tails. He does his best to recognize Nine's preferred name, but he makes a number of references to getting the prism and "fixing all of this", refers to the New Yoke variants as "messed up yous", and at times even acts as if the variants should be/are like his original friends (as we see from the scene he starts introducing the variants under the names and traits of the originals). He quite literally believes that Nine is just Tails without his memories of Sonic. He thinks he just needs to stop eggman, get the prism, and make his "friends" remember.
While I will emphasize how much it makes sense that Sonic would approach the New Yoke variants initially with this conclusion, it will unfortunately affect how he perceives Nine forever.
In Season 2 Episode 6, Sonic returns to New Yoke. Rebel and Renegade are angry at him for leaving them behind, and (as we covered in the Rebel and Renegade section) they consider Sonic and Nine to be traitors. However, while Rebel and Renegade (understandably) label Sonic and Nine as traitors for the betrayal they witnessed, Sonic is...surprised when he learns that Nine made off with the shard.
"I didn't steal the shard!"
"But your fox friend did. Right before he left us high and dry."
"He...did?"
I'm going to refrain into digging too far into how Sonic sees Tails (as dredging up the evidence would be another essay), but, in short, we know that Tails is his best friend. Tails is smart, he helps fight Eggman for the greater good, and he'd never leave a friend behind, right?
By this episode, Sonic has shifted his idea of the variants already. He no longer thinks Nine or Rebel or Renegade are just his original friends missing their memories, but we know that he feels as if there are pieces or traits of his friends who reside in all the variants deep down. He tries to talk like Amy and get Thorn to be a "good friend" and make up with everyone. He tries to appeal to Dread and get him to join the crew's search for the blue shard, referring to that stubborn loyalty of Knuckles'.
So Sonic has already created an idea of Nine based upon his idea of Tails. Sure Nine is "a bit angsty" and a loner, but he'd never leave any friends behind or leave people in danger, would he?
Tails would never just leave everyone behind, and Sonic doesn’t want to believe that Nine would or to believe the worst of him. So to Sonic...it must all be some huge misunderstanding, right? Sonic will prove that he and Nine aren’t traitors. When he finds Nine there has to be a reasonable explanation for why he made off with the red shard and left Rebel, Rusty, and Renegade to the council's mercy.
Nine is Sonic's friend, and Sonic believes that Tails is in him deep down here. He refuses to believe that Nine is evil or doesn't care about others.
"If they get that energy crystal back, we're done for."
"Nine won't let that happen!"
...
"I'm sorry I wasn't there when you needed me. But I'm not a traitor and neither is Nine. Let me prove it to you. Let me fight by your side."
He thinks so highly of Nine and believes in the good in him. Most of us agree that this is because of Sonic comparing Nine to Tails and because of how he initially started trying to pull Nine into the intelligent little buddy role. But...is this all because of Tails? Is it–?
Let's take a step back for a moment. Remember how in the previous sections I talked about the character's pre-existing biases and how Nines actions would coincidentally fit into these biases, and how I've emphasized what it is the characters actually have seen?
Well, here's the truth of the situation. Sonic didn't see Nine abandon Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty. While they're clearly angry, he has no clue what actually occured, how Nine acted, and he refuses to assume that Nine grabbed the shard and just split. And when you hear that someone you've already decided to trust (even though Sonic later updates his idea of Nine as his own person, it's due to Sonic's existing bias towards Tails that he trusted Nine in the first place) has done something awful, you'd want to see that proof or know the context. You'd want to hear what happened from the one you trust. And here's another truth about the situation. Nine up to this point has never betrayed Sonic. After they talked in the scareport after their battle, had a heart to heart, Nine proved he was no longer hostile to Sonic. Nine gave him the regulators and helped him with his little running issue. Although Nine had no way to save him when Sonic was about to be blasted back at the Yoke, when Rebel and Renegade swooped in to fight, Nine freed Sonic at his first available chance. During that entire adventure in the Yoke through to episode 3, Sonic has seen Nine work together with the others as they fight for a singular goal. Even when Nine suggested they leave the others behind to get the shard, Rebel tells Sonic the same thing right afterwards.
Aside from hearsay, Sonic (by Episode 6 of Season 1) has no reason to believe that Nine is a traitor. Nine assisting with the fight in the Yoke, helping him out—all of this feeds right back into the idea Sonic has of Nine's character. He reasonably feared that Nine would keep attacking him in episode 1 after the battle, and he reasonably believed that Nine baseline cared about the well-beings of others.
Let's look at Sonic's talks with Nine in S1 E6 after Nine picks him up from New Yoke.
(For the record, as I've already taken up quite a lot of your time here, I'm going to try to be as concise as I can with this section. But if you'd like to read a more in depth analysis of Nine and Sonic during this scene I've done, you can read Sonine Prime Part 6 here.)
As I said, Nine helping out in the battle before he picks up Sonic just feeds into Sonic's pre-existing bias. Nine very clearly only came to pick Nine up from New Yoke so he could take him to the Grim (and that's pretty much what he does the moment Sonic jumps into his cockpit). Sonic, however, already asserted to Rebel and Renegade that Nine is not a traitor and that this battle for the existence of the resistance and the citizens' hope in a better future will allow him to prove that neither he and Nine are traitorous. He doesn't know where Nine is exactly before he shows up, nor does he have real reason to believe Nine will show up during this fight, but Sonic was extremely happy Nine did. Likewise, Nine doesn't know any details about the resistance's fight with the Chaos Council. He has no real reason to believe that Sonic will just go with him and leave during the battle, but he's also very happy to see Sonic and to take Sonic's attention.
So while Nine came to New Yoke to pick up Sonic, Sonic assumed Nine came to join the fight, to help the rebels fight for a better future, and to clear their names. He's assuming that Nine shares the same intentions as him and has the same general idea of what "a good person" would do that he projects onto Nine. As for Nine, he also just kind of assumed Sonic would go along with him. When talking about the Grim to Sonic, he emphasizes that it's a clean slate, he appeals to Sonic's wish for home by talking about how it can be a new home for the two of them. In addition, he also has an idea of a "good person" he projects onto Sonic, given how he tries to appeal to that assumed nature by talking about how the two of them can create a "better world" (as opposed to New Yoke, a city that only brought Nine misery, that Nine has no hope for).
Plus, as the two traverse the area between the shatterspaces, they play tug of war with the conversation at hand. Sonic talks to Nine about how they really should get back to New Yoke to help the rebels (they're fighting an incredibly important battle at the moment). Specifically he says "we should get back" (emphasis on the "we"), and talks as if he's trying to remind Nine why they should be fighting right now and why that matters.
As for Nine, especially because he's pretty detached and doesn't know or care of the extent of what's going on in New Yoke, he keeps steering the conversation towards The Grim and what he's discovered about the shards. He keeps emphasizing that this is about creating home for the both of them together, and he also talks like he's trying to remind Sonic of "their" goals and why the creation of home here matters.
It's also worth mentioning here that Nine both does not know the extent of what's happening in New Yoke (because he wasn't there with Sonic, he didn't meet the full resistance, he doesn't know about the palm tree or the specifics of that fight of the future) and doesn't really care. He also isn't malicious about it either. He's not acting like everyone in New Yoke deserves to suffer and he's purposely leaving them there to suffer. Rather, he responds to Sonic's attempts to convince him to go back to New Yoke with him and fight by talking about how the city brought him misery and he doesn’t owe it anything. He's taking a neutral stance of "That city was not my home. It hurt me and it brought me only misery. I'm not going to go out of my way to destroy it or hurt people there. As long as people there leave me alone, then I will leave it alone. It's the city's problem if it's hurtling towards destruction, not mine."
These two are just focusing on completely different things—specifically things they emotionally invested themselves in and placed their focus in before the two met again in S1 E6. And yeah! Maybe how Nine acts during this scene should have been enough to tell Sonic that Nine doesn't care about New Yoke or saving every little person in danger. Nine does make it pretty clear that he only cares about his goal of creating a new home and better world for himself and Sonic. However, Sonic is the kind of hedgehog that not only believes in Nine's capacity for "goodness" (or how Sonic personally believes one has to be to be a "good person"), but that Nine has to be a "good person". Even before he'd accepted Nine as his own person that isn't just Tails, he'd formed that solid idea of Nine's character as someone who would naturally help people in need, and he doesn’t want to admit that the idea he has of Nine in his head is wrong.
But, even with all of that in mind, is any of this really proof or "red flags" that Nine would betray Sonic all along? Sure Sonic's ignoring here in the Grim that Nine doesn't care about New Yoke or the resistance all that much, but does Nine ever give any indication that he's just using Sonic to get the shards and was planning on exerting control over the shatterverse?
No.
Nine is happy to see Sonic. We know from S2 E7 that he very genuinely had integrated Sonic into his plans, very seriously planned to create a new home to live in with Sonic (so he wasn't lying about it). He already had two prism shards and was already experimenting with using them to alter reality in the Grim, and gave no indication he wanted more. He could have continued to shape the Grim to his will, but instead he brought Sonic there so they could do it together. When Sonic seemingly rejects his proposal to create a new world together, he seems disappointed, acts like he's been rejected, helps Sonic get back to New Yoke.
Nothing about that screams power hungry fox trying to hurt people on purpose. He got exactly what he needed (a couple shards and Sonic), and if he'd had his way right then, they would have just created a home in the Grim.
All the fox wanted was to be left alone and to be home.
During this scene, how can Sonic miss "red flags" that Nine has been "secretly evil all along" that aren't even there?
Sonic's only crime is trying to hold onto the exact idea he has of Nine as a "good person" by his own standards. And frankly, even when Sonic relents and goes to New Yoke without him, he makes it so clear that he just knows Nine will come back to fight with him, just like he knew Nine would come to help earlier (even if Nine had only actually come for him).
After their battle in S1 E1, Nine had a heart to heart with him. Nine created the regulators and helped Sonic control the energy bursting from him. Nine helped him and the rebels escape captivity/danger while they were in the Yoke, and assisted in keeping the others from harm as they all fought together. He came right in the nick of time to turn the tide of the battle for a minute in E6 of S1. And even after making it clear to the audience that he doesn’t care about New Yoke, and pushing against Sonic's internalized idea of his character, he still comes back for Sonic.
Even if he only comes back to join the fight so he can give Sonic another chance to pursue his (Nine's) goals, his coming back feeds right back into Sonic's pre-existing bias. After all, he knew Nine would come, didn't he?
Let's even go further into S2. Sonic learns that Nine got captured, and Nine makes this clear as well. He tells Sonic that he's going to use his vantage point to work the council from the inside. Both are aware of how dangerous it is for the Chaos Council to have access to so much shard energy. From the little contact Sonic has with Nine during most of this season, Nine situates himself as Sonic's inside helper and giving him direction. This is why he believes him when "Nine" leads them into the Yoke for a trap, and that's why he believes the real Nine when he leads him through the Yoke building in a plan to get rid of Chaos Sonic.
To Sonic, Nine always comes through for him, whether it's for fighting, giving him insider information, or giving him directions/plans/helping things make sense to him.
If Sonic just let himself see it, he would notice that Nine doesn't really care about anyone else but himself and Sonic, and he would know what Nine's actual goals were. Assuming that Nine naturally followed his same goals and acts regarding other people "like the real Tails would", that was Sonic's folly. That's where he was being naive and only taking in evidence that fit his bias of Nine as a good person.
But that doesn't change the fact that Nine did help people out, did help out Sonic. He prioritized his own goals over others' well-being in E6 of S1, and when he left Renegade, Rusty, and Rebel behind, but he did not do so without hesitation. It doesn't change the fact that he helped Sonic out and that Sonic had no reason to believe Nine was using him for his own purposes, because even when Nine made his true character and his goals clear, he always genuinely wanted Sonic at his side. And it doesn't change the fact that even when Nine was frustrated at Sonic, he still stuck up for Sonic. He still convinced the Chaos Council not to kill him outright. He still risks his position and safety to help Sonic, even in the face of being killed for doing so. He feels guilt and remorse for being the reason Sonic was led into a trap and attacked by Chaos Sonic. He expresses this guilt to the Chaos Council (as they jab and jeer and he goes "what have I done?"), and he expresses it to Sonic, who reiterates the trust he has in Nine.
What I'm getting at here is that Sonic’s problem was always how he didn't fully see Nine as he was, and how he just assumed Nine would go along with whatever he thought and wanted. Nine's criticism at the end of S2 was not a baseless one. However, his problem was never that he trusted Nine. No matter the place his trust in Nine began from, Sonic has never had any reason to distrust him, and, in fact, only grew to trust him more over time and Nine helped him out and proved that he cared about his well-being.
Sonic thinks Nine will go along with his goals because he's "just like Tails" and kind of assumes so.
Sonic sees "the good" in Nine and trusts that Nine is his friend because he's gotten to know Nine a bit better over time. Actions speak loud, and it says a lot that Nine continues to aid him and very specifically wants to be with him.
Now, in the interest of not going on for too much longer, I'm not going to go piece by piece through every Nine scene to dissect exactly who he is as a person and why. Nine's exact character is an essay for another time. So for now, let's keep in mind just what we can see of Nine in the show (and in contrast to what other characters think of him).
I'm going to pose a question or two. Has Nine the Fox been secretly evil all along? Has everyone else been seeing the signs while Sonic has been blind because he doesn't want to believe "Tails" could be evil?
And now, from what we've gone over so far, here's some of what we know about Nine:
Nine isn’t the type to hurt people for no reason or out of malicious intent. He attacks in self defense and generally just wants to be left alone. Thus, if you leave Nine alone, he won't go out of his way to mess with you.
He doesn’t care about others to an extent. If he's already involved in an event, he will help out if people are in danger. However, he always pursues his goals first. He ultimately hesitates when he sees Rebel, Renegade, and Rusty captured, but ultimately chooses to secure making it out alive and with the shard over risking losing either to assist these three.
He cares very deeply about Sonic. Even when he's clearly frustrated or disappointed or says that he's not friends with Sonic, his actions show otherwise. He wanted to build a new home with Sonic, and he risked his own well-being to help Sonic in S2.
He trusts Sonic back. He believes in his ability to overcome anything, even when the Chaos Council is throwing more and more terrible robots at Sonic and trying to convince Nine that it's not worth putting faith in him.
Others actually try to convince both Sonic and Nine during the runtime of S1 and S2 that the other shouldn't/can't be trusted, and that it's idiotic to place their trust in each other. These are scenes that genuinely end up showing that each plans to stay on the other's side and features them sticking up for each other.
Nine doesn't care about others, but not in a malicious manner. He aspires to be left alone and to his own devices, to which he will leave others alone and to their own devices. Even when he's alone and not in Sonic's presence, he never expresses a wish to exert control over the shatterverse and to be its god (essentially trying to make it all better). He only wants to create his ideal home with Sonic away from everything that hurt him.
He rejects the idea that he is exactly like Tails.
He actively seeks and even becomes smug/happy when he gets Sonic's attention. Being considered Sonic's friend or even a best friend is important to him.
The only ulterior motive he ever presents in helping out Sonic is when doing so allows him to get the home he desires, a desire that he includes Sonic in on for the bulk of the runtime. Essentially, he sees Sonic as a collaborator in a goal that includes them both.
So now, I pose the question to you reading this. Has Nine the fox been secretly evil all along?
Personally, I think not. He's not a "good person", but to be evil one has to have a specific kind of malicious intent. You can argue that the Chaos Council are evil because they act in self interest, knowingly oppress the mobians in New Yoke, and don't care what they have to do or who they have to kill to get what they want. They are aware of what they are doing and that they are hurting people, and actively choose to do "evil" deeds because they want to.
Nine acts in his own self interest, he doesn't go out of his way to be a hero to others, he doesn't care what becomes of the other shatterspaces, but he doesn't go out of his way to just oppress or hurt people. He doesn't attack people or leave them to die for the enjoyment of it. He's not outright acting evil with intentions to commit evil deeds, but he never claims to be a hero either. He's a morally grey fox who acts in his own self interest who just wants a real home, and just wants to be safe.
But all in all I ask this to you because I wonder genuinely. What of Nine's actions during these two seasons betray that he's just "what if Tails was evil"? Does acting in one's self interest or selfishly, even if you believe it's for a good cause and if you don't go out of your way to hurt people, make you an inherently evil person?
Has everyone else been seeing the signs while Sonic has been blind because he doesn't want to believe "Tails" could be evil?
Renegade, Rebel, Shadow, etc. They all don't trust Nine.
But with I've gone over so far re:their povs and what they've seen and know of Nine, have all of these people been seeing something Sonic has been missing? Have they not just been doing the same thing Sonic has been (in this case, forming an idea of them based upon first impressions and continuing to paint that person in a specific light because of how their continued experiences with that person fit their pre-existing biases)? They've had less run ins with Nine than Sonic has. What makes their gut instincts and povs more valuable than Sonic's pov of Nine (or the chaos council in s1 and s2 for that matter)?
What is it even that they're seeing that Sonic is missing? Is it that Nine cares more about creating a home within the Grim than saving people or being a hero, or even more than some goal of bringing back Green Hill (even at the expense of the shatterverse and his life)?
Sure, Sonic doesn’t want to believe Nine could be evil. Heck, he doesn't even want to believe that his idea of Nine as someone who would put his life on the line for those in danger and help people when he can is false.
But what? What exactly is it that he's missing? What are the "red flags" Sonic is "ignoring" in these two seasons that "prove" Nine has been evil all along? What was Sonic missing that proves Nine was always planning on betraying him?
It's all food for thought my friends.
Anyways, if you've read up to this point, thank you so much! I know it's a long one, but it means a lot to me that you'd take the time to read my thoughts and analysis. In the end, the point of this essay is that I implore you all to think of how the characters see each other. The creators put genuine thought into these characters, how they act based on what happens to them, and how they act based upon what they could possibly know from their povs. I implore you to consider why certain characters assert things they do. I implore you to think why Nine would have betrayed Sonic at the end of S2, why Sonic would have trusted him, and for what reason other characters may not have trusted him. I implore you to think of Nine not as a twist villain, but to think of how he actually is and what might push a person to this point.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
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batsplat · 1 month ago
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as might have come across by now, i love doing dumb rankings for things, which obviously includes ranking top ten riders after the season ends. which is only fun to do if you do not take it too seriously!! this is just as a laff. did it very very quickly top off my head before listening to the race podcast episode ranking the riders so I could argue with them in my head, was curious if they'd change my mind on anyone, they did not
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just for reference the race's combined rankings were: 10) vinales 9) binder 8) zarco 7) diggia 6) bastianini 5) fabio 4) bagnaia 3) acosta 2) marc 1) jorge (impressive this did actually match up in terms of the riders i picked because i swear their one last year was bizarre)
here is my quick fire justification for each
Next off - always a coward's concept but idk, I'm clearly too fond of aleix. retirement privileges. the poles were neat, the races frustrating but ultimately also a bit inevitable feeling, too much of the year too anonymous. flyaway kinda a waste (also it makes sense to have a next off in this case because there was not a single other rider I considered even for a second for this list, like it's very much a grid in two halves for me this season idk)
10. Diggia - was generally impressed and happy he cracked on from last year, love athletes getting better at things. It's the Marc comparison that kills him for me. You don't need to be beating marc but you need to be close to him SOMETIMES and like. finish ahead of him when he's not gotten a penalty. just do not think the gp23 was quite as poor as the non-marc riders were looking, have to accept that bez's season was basically a write-off and go from there. Late stretch with the injury was really strong - positive season by his standards but that ends up bagging him tenth
9. zarco - some really impressive pace on a really poor bike. The qualifying is obviously the big thing, like the one lap pace was just consistently... surprisingly impressive.... Felt very yamaha era, I didn't realise he still had that in him. Races meh but no more so than other Honda's and he showed a little of what that bike was capable of. zarco to me feels like one of those riders who does need to feel comfortable in an environment to properly perform, and I get the vibe the lcr set-up is doing him a lot of good. still a bit of a war criminal sometimes in races - but unlike a couple of riders who did not make this list, at least he actually backed it up with a little bit of magic
8. Vinales - man this guy... I mean cota was obviously amazing and so was portimao tbh, but unfortunately it's a twenty round calendar. The starts are abysmal even by aprilia standards, after phillip island I made a vow with myself to never put him in my fantasy league team again and then broke that at catalunya ii, a race I'm not convinced he was physically present for. also with all love and respect for aleix, genuinely remarkable it's taken three seasons for vinales to actually get the better of him - and even that was helped by aleix disappearing over the flyaway stretch. extremely vinales season, we all know what we're getting at this point
7. bastianini - not even BAD as much as I found it deeply uninspiring. obviously also pretty damning he failed to secure third place. he flirted with the idea of involving the best bike on the grid in the factory team in a title fight two thirds into the season, then instantly changed his mind. just basically IMMEDIATELY crashed when the title contender shouts started... so much for the consistency thing when he's actually pushing huh. the qualifying h2h with pecco is criminal, which to some extent reflects well on pecco but. not that well. Late race pace gimmick only takes you so far buddy. Fell off less than the three guys ahead of him in the standings, but at least those three were clearly trying to be fast which fundamentally I think is a good idea in motogp. I also still haven't forgotten whatever tf he was getting up to in the catalunya i race, though admittedly catalunya ii was in itself a memorable follow-up. the post-race aleix comment is a genuine contender for the funniest thing anyone has said all year and almost pushed him into my top ten just because of how much i enjoyed that. and now for the good stuff!! when bastianini's on it he's clearly super fast, the late race pace gimmick DOES still do crazy things sometimes, and he did have some serious consistency going for him even when he was twenty seconds back on the other guys. race craft always been a bit dubious to me but like. points for pulling some of those moves off without crashing. improved his sprint performances and did manage to bounce back from serious injuries last year. interested to see how he gets on next year
6. Binder - I did not think I was being generous with this ranking!!! he was the top non ducati points scorer and I still believe on balance the gp23 is a better package than what binder had. sure, this was another pretty uninspiring season but like... maybe the issue is that I've long felt binder was overrated and the ktm was underrated, like I never bought this whole 'he'd win a title on a ducati!!' talk. so I felt vindicated early in the season and then I got over it and could appreciate the performances he put in. he outscored a guy I think most people agree is a truly generational alien-level talent - didn't outperform him, but that is still a respectable accomplishment. the ktm might not have slipped down the pecking order but it WAS relatively further adrift from ducati than last year - lack of peaks hurts binder post Qatar and how pedro just reliably seemed the best ktm in terms of pace but. y'know. that gets you sixth
5. pedro - yeah man, what a stunning rider. I always try to set the hype levels low when a guy is switching class because you truly never know, but he's the real deal. felt very casey-esque in vibes more than result in that his ultra promising start to the season actually slightly hurt him afterwards, but quite frankly this is also down to bike performance and him overreaching on machinery that doesn't allow it. you could feel him losing his patience... he's hungry and knows he should be fighting right at the sharp end of the field. which is fine - to a degree. inevitably some of the mistakes end up costing him in this ranking, even though I still feel like they tell me nothing about his ultimate potential. the comparisons to marc's rookie season are worse than useless because if you really think marc wouldnt have crashed more in his rookie races than he did if his debut had been with, idk, Ducati ... Idk what to tell you man. Hopefully he's gotten some of the stupidity and recklessness out of his system, but yeah he could do with that bike things none of the other riders could. also CONSISTENT high pace - even if the conversion wasn't always what is should be, he really was almost always the fastest ktm rider in any given weekend. looking forward to next year if ktm still exists
(also sorry but you CANNOT rank him this much higher than binder if he's been outscored by him on the same bike, like it's a top ten best riders not top ten riders who you vibed with the most. binder outscored pedro and u put him SIX places lower in the rankings?? it's not supposed to be a ranking relative to expectations - maybe this is also what hurts marc slightly in my rankings... he clearly adapted very well to the ducati BUT the fact that he was adapting just inevitably meant some of his performances especially early in the season weren't quite *there*, which knocks his ranking slightly. this 2 me is how you do a ranking of the 'best')
4. Fabio - the problem with ranking fabio is that fundamentally you cannot really compare him to some of the guys in this ranking because he is just riding with a completely different set of challenges and priorities. he's not under the strain of a title fight, he's not got a decent benchmark (think the injury is still a serious factor), the eye test tells me he was highly impressive but I also can't really rank him higher. he has a massive machinery deficit but also fundamentally that means if he has a shit weekend, he's going to just be essentially invisible. even though I fully believe he would be right up there with the guys ahead of him given the correct machinery, if not beating them, just kinda inevitably means he cannot put together as complete a season as the guys ahead of him. also helped by how the Yamaha has gotten generally somewhat better over the course of the season, which means recency bias is swaying me. really recaptured some of that old qualifying magic at times. That race where morbidelli took him out haunts me. He's also kinda hurt by me not seeing enough of him on my screen but this is not his fault. I would be fine putting him first lol
3. marc - he's very likely gonna win the title next year, for now he gets third in this ranking. in the pro column is obliterating with the gp23's, though quite frankly that also reflects how unimpressed I was generally by most of those guys. I think the bike was nowhere near as good as he made it look for much of the year, especially given the rear tyre situation... I also don't think it was quite as poor as his fellow gp23's regularly made it look. he adapted very well to the bike especially at his age, he showed he still has the old magic, he did everything he needed to this season to fight for the title next year. a lot of the year he spent riding with bikes he had no business racing, there were some inspired rides through the field, and all three of his sunday wins were impressive in different ways. he also had more than his fair share of bad luck. but y'know, he was in the title hunt vibes-wise long enough that it's worth pointing out he finished over a hundred points off the top two in the rankings. which probably feels like more than it is given the sprint factor - still, percentage-wise that clocks in at just under eighty percent of bags' points... I'm not discounting the machinery difference but it makes me more comfortable with giving him third. the qualifying isn't actually as poor stats wise as it FEELS (average grid position another stat you can whack bastianini with if you are so inclined btw), but it still wasn't what it should have been. gp25 will probably be good enough he can at least slot in besides pecco, but he doesn't want to get into that 2015 era valentino habit of continually having to do Very Impressive Rides with great overtakes and all the rest of it from pee nowhere at the end of the first lap. also a bit too crash-y - and I do give him one or two penalty points for stinky race craft working his way back up the order lol. he's too old for that, and also there may come a time where he does need to start watching that crash count a bit more (throughout the weekend). maybe it's sustainable, but it might well not be. I didn't like those numbers in his prime, I like them even less now. all that being said he could easily go first in this ranking and I almost put him there, to me there's no real distinction. post-summer break I think I would put him first
(editorial note: twas interesting to see catalunya ii qualifying felt like the first time catching a tow off pecco actually *worked*, and I am a little bit curious if that was because pecco was deliberately attempting to give him said tow or whether he's figured out not to bin it on the ducati in that situation. watch this space ig)
2. Bags - the fastest rider this year and should have been champion, so of course you have to penalise him for not winning. I do actually think he performed better than martin but also he had the factory apparatus behind him and martin did what he needed to do. seven crashes - one he was completely blameless for, two racing incidents he was at most in that 40-60% range for, four on his own. I find the sepang sprint crash quite excusable, catalunya sprint I am pretty unimpressed by, misano ii I honestly still don't understand anything about his race and Silverstone sprint I am very meh about. the racing incidents do feel like major punishments for minor crimes but fundamentally just like... don't be in that situation I guess. if you don't watch where you're going when you cross the street under a green light and get run over, even if it's not your fault that won't actually do you much good. genuinely had some quite poor luck, like I don't think all this bike/tyre stuff was just bullshit on his end - same with martin last year at... I want to say qatar? shit happens. I do think he needs to get more serious about sprints, though to some extent his ranking reflects a continued stubbornness on my part on the sprint front. you're supposed to be fast on a sunday!! he was fast on a sunday. eleven wins are eleven wins and don't suddenly get erased if you don't win the title - sure he was on the dominant bike but he wasn't the only one. eleven wins can be used to slam him but fundamentally they are still eleven wins. and did I mention that he did ungodly things to bastianini in some of their h2h's, who theoretically is quite a highly rated rider... I am always a fan of a good exercise in futility and some of his late season performances very much moved me. decision making sometimes a bit ass, race craft less so. hope he doesn't die in a ditch next season
1. jm - yeah man what can you say, just such an impressive all round season. you can penalise him a bit for the win count I feel ... It's one of those weird seasons because apart from mid season he generally ended up in a position where he was *defending* a points lead, so it was consistently sensible for him to settle for results rather than do anything silly. But there was a lot of settling!! I think it's easy to complain about that on entertainment grounds, but fundamentally this was probably his one shot to win a title (after last year) and he did so. both him and bagnaia made a step up from last year which as stated earlier on I always appreciate - I still think pecco is the all round better well rounded rider with more to his game, but also literally who gives a shit. it's about winning the title!! shout out to his starts... I don't like how important they are in the current version of the sport but they are and his are consistently excellent. the qualifying battle between him and pecco is worthy of mention in its own right - I KNOW you don't get points for qualifying, I'm not even that big a qualifying girl normally, but idk some of those sessions moved me. doing all that with a satellite team (albeit a very well-supported one) and knowing he was leaving next year... yeah. now admittedly he did do the single stupidest thing I'd seen all year when he changed bikes at misano i, which if I had my way you'd get negative points for, but also all those guys behind him made mistakes so whatever. I find the sachsenring crash fairly excusable, the jerez one a lil less so but also fine, mugello sprint was a wee bit silly and likewise indonesia. did also potentially get extremely lucky marc crashed when he did in thailand - if martin's right and he would have crashed there, that's double the title-winning margin right there. race craft a bit eh and I feel like I never really expect him to win any of his encounters with pecco and Marc (and even bastianini), but also le mans was great so. Doubt he'd be champion without sprints but we do have the sprints, congrats on a great season etc etc
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and there u go. top five are interchangeable for me and so are the bottom five but i feel quite strongly about which rider belongs in which group. fun season, i enjoyed it
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stayevildarling · 3 years ago
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Wilhemina Venable x Reader- When the time is right - Pt 1
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Part 2, Part 3
word count: 3.8k
warnings: mention of scoliosis, angst + fluff at the end
A/N: This story is kind of an AU. Reader meets Venable when Wilhemina is light Mina (orange hair, adorable, cute, friendly) and they get together. One day Wilhemina breaks it off suddenly and they only reunite years later but Reader is met with a much darker version (dark Mina).
Also, this used to be on my Wattpad but I decided to completely rewrite it and add multiple parts
Taglist:
@lunaticwhittaker, @rainbow-hedgehog, @mrsdeanhoward, @alexajbitar, @in-cordelias-coven, @kenzbro, @loverofallthingssarah, @twistedpoeticjustice, @billiebeanhoward, @minaslittleone, @lilypadscoven, @vintagepaulson, @ninaahs, @whitelotus00, @httpfiftyshadesofgay
-Flashback-
''Are you serious right now after all we have been through?'' you try hard not to scream but it feels like your body is on fire, your lungs are burning, heart racing and your eyes watering. You cannot believe you are having this conversation with your girlfriend Wilhemina right now. After a whole year of knowing each other and eventually giving the relationship a go she is talking about moving on.
'It's for the best'' is all she said in return and then she walked out, cane in her hand hitting the floor hard and not once did she look back, she ignored your cries, you begging her to stay and please turn back around. You keep repeating this is a nightmare and you are gonna wake up any minute to her holding you in her arms. But it was no nightmare and she did walk out of your shared apartment and ever since that day you have tried to move on. But no matter what you did working, moving out of the apartment, meeting friends, getting to know new people it didn't work, Wilhemina was always on your mind, when you are asleep she would visit in your dreams, when you are driving or outside and a song plays, she is there in your memory as if she never left in the first place.
-End of Flashback-
Even right now as you are walking through the streets on your lunch break, coffee in your hand and earphones in your ears listening to music she is here again.
''I never needed you like I do right now....I never hated you like I do right now'' as you hear those lyrics your heart skips a beat and it feels like it is breaking all over again. You tried everything you could think of, start a new job in a new field, you moved to a new city but nothing seems to be able to take your mind off the redhead, clouding your mind, her touch still so present lingering on your skin, her voice still ringing through your ears and the smell of lavender following you wherever you go.
Currently, you are working for a company in California, in the social media department and to promote the brand and their work. It's mostly boring but you do enjoy social media and advertisement so you gladly took the job considering it comes with a higher paycheck and a brand new apartment. There was nothing left in your old city, no friends anymore because you drove them all away as they always talked badly about your ex-girlfriend and the feelings you still have for her. No family because you were kind of always on your own and after quitting your job there, there was nothing holding you back. The woman with red-orange hair and a purple obsession is currently on your mind again and no matter what you do she is stuck in your head, like a catchy record and it hurts. As you think about her a wave of flashbacks hit you, with no way of putting a stop to it and keeping the storm at bay.
''Wilhemina Venable, nice to meet you'' was the first few words that you ever heard her say and for a moment you were so struck that you couldn't even say anything. ''Cat got your tongue hmm?'' was what she said afterward and what got you to snap out of it, introduce yourself, and shake her hand. And when you touched her for the first time you knew you would never ever get tired of feeling her soft hands.
You would also never grow tired of looking into her beautiful brown eyes or the soft smile she would give you whenever she would see you. Back then you just finished college and you took your first job and she was your co-worker. Starting a relationship with a co-worker is sometimes frowned upon and there probably are good reasons for that but you didn't listen, not to your friends telling you not to do it and not to the other co-workers after they noticed the glances you and Wilhemina exchanged at work. But you both never let that stop you and you fell for her and you fell hard.
Although you had some crushes before, mostly on teachers in college or celebrities, you never had been in a relationship before. Every morning before work you would get up so early and make sure to put your best clothes on, you would improve your makeup skills and try different hairstyles to impress Wilhemina and you did. She would notice how often you would come around to her desk and ask her silly questions you both knew the answers to but you pretend you didn't. And eventually, she took all of her confidence and asked you out and that night was the most magical night of your life.
You went to an expensive restaurant and after she took you home and she gave you something that night that was precious and you held onto it till today. Patience. She was your first love and she made sure to not rush, to not hurt you, to be there for you and hold you whenever you needed her. After your first date, you went on some more magical nights together, before you were ready to allow her to love you and to love her in return and she made you feel things you never felt before. She would make your whole body feel beautiful and worthy, all your insecurities left whenever you were around the woman who had many insecurities herself due to her back. And that's probably what you admire most about her, the way she made you feel whenever you were with her.
Thinking about all this, you think back to the many dates you both went on, to restaurants, shopping, the movies, car dates, attending work parties together, going to get drunk together. Life felt so easy with Wilhemina around, although she was a few years older than you she was pure, she was funny, soft, kind, precious and she was innocent. She would always treat people with respect and offer help and you loved her beautiful and kind personality. You never thought that one night after being with each other for almost a year she would randomly walk out of your life and not once turn back around or try and talk about it.
Hearing the lyrics repeat, you sigh and shake your head because it is true, one part of you needed Wilhemina back in your life because no matter what you do you can not get her out of your head or heart for that matter. Part of you does hate her for leaving and walking out, you never cried harder in your life than the night she left and you couldn't function for days. All you did was cry, toss and turn in the bed or curl up on the floor in a little ball until you couldn't cry anymore but the pain never stopped. It took days and in the end, your friends who picked you up again, taught you how to take care of yourself again by eating, showering, getting dressed, and going to work and you hoped that moving and changing jobs would change something.
As you are sitting in a park, only a few blocks away from your new workplace, watching people having picnics, playing with their kids, walking their dogs, or doing exercise you realize that all this wasn't worth it. Moving away, leaving your job, apartment and friends did nothing, you still miss her and she still haunts you. You miss her gentle side, the soft Mina as you used to call her, who would hold you in her arms, who would say soothing words until you would fall asleep, and who would make you feel better after a hard day at work, hold you after a nightmare or would let you ramble about another one of the co-workers annoying you. You miss telling her about your days and how you feel because you could be free with her and be who you are and you haven't been that way in a very long time.
Checking your phone you notice your lunch break is over in five minutes so you toss your empty coffee cup in a nearby trash can and walk back to your office. Today has been particularly boring because all you have to do is answer people's dm's and requests on social media because currently there is no campaign going on. As you walk back to your desk you put your coat and bag away and start logging onto your laptop. That's when you hear your boss on his way to your desk and you can't help but internally roll your eyes. He isn't a bad guy or anything, he is in his fifties, grey hair, always wearing a suit and he treats you with respect and you appreciate him but whenever he would approach you it means a problem, like an advertisement going wrong or a complaint or a new major client and that means longer hours and staying in the office till midnight. Not that you mind considering there is nothing or no one to come back home to.
''Y/N'' he says as he finally reaches your desk. Looking up from your desk, you force a smile and reply ''Yes Mr. Odell what can I do for you?''. By his posture, you can tell he is in some kind of distress.
''Listen we have a potential new client and I want you to come to our first meeting with them'' he says excitedly and you question why he can't just bring his assistant. ''I can't bring Janet she is sick so I need you to get your things'' he explains and you log off your computer, take your coat and bag and follow him outside the building. It is quite chilly, so you are glad that you put a jacket over your blazer.
As the familiar buildings and streets fade into the distance, you try not to zone out like you usually would but these days your mind would often be preoccupied with daydreams or memories as if someone else was entirely in control of your thoughts.
''I have a meeting with a Mr. Pfister and Mr. Nutter'' he says absent-mindedly while looking into his calendar and talking about the company you are headed to. Snapping out of your thoughts, you nod and mumble ''Of course Mr. Odell'' before averting your gaze back to the window looking at the hectic city and people going on about their days. Your thoughts wander back to work and you try to think of a few possibilities to advertise their products, as that might not be as easy as you originally thought when agreeing on accompanying your boss.
The first thing you see as you walk into a large unfamiliar building, following your boss's steps,  is a front desk with some employees sitting there, it seems that this building is home to a few companies and different departments as they guide people into different parts of the building. You watch as your boss approaches the front desk,  ''Hello may I help you?'' a woman with blonde hair asks politely.
''Yes I have a meeting with Kineros Robotics'' he says and she looks at you, then him again, and points towards a sign. ''It's to your right just follow the signs'' she says and you notice how her facial expression changed from nice and friendly to cold and possibly scared? after your boss mentioned the company name. Reading people's expressions and understanding their underlying feelings, has always been something you are good at but you quickly shake the thought away and follow your boss.
As you walk down the corridor you see a young woman with long brown curled hair wearing a blouse with flower prints and a skirt run down the hall with a box in her hand, her heels echoing through the building. ''I'm sorry'' she mumbles hectic and nervous as she zooms past you and you give Mr. Odell a questioning expression before reaching the department.
''I'm so sorry there was a bad accident on the 101'' you hear the woman say and then you hear a sound that sounds both so familiar and unfamiliar at the same time. The cane tapping. For a moment you freeze, knowing this isn't just any cane tap as you are so used to a certain redhead woman expressing her emotions partly through the very device that helps her keep her balance. Despite not having heard the sound in over a year, you know exactly who must be on the other end of the hallway.
Temporarily you freeze, thinking maybe her leaving you and breaking things off with you, has ultimately clouded your senses and affected your brain and maybe you are imagining everything. After all the rational part of yourself, is trying to remind you that there is no explanation right now as to why she would be here of all places.
However, the next thing you hear is a clear confirmation that your brain is not tricking you, it's not your mind so clouded by her absence, she is here, the only thing keeping you from seeing each other is a wall and a few steps apart. As you hear a familiar voice your heart stops beating and your throat goes dry.
''Not as bad as the accident that brought you into the world'' that is all you heard and although her voice sounds more cold, harsh and raspy you are fully aware that Wilhemina is sitting at the end of that corridor. For a moment your body goes into a state of shock, your ears ringing, vision blurring, and your heart beating out of your chest.
Shortly after the girl what you assume now to be an assistant comes running back towards the corridor with tears in her eyes and her heels making the same clicking sound. She zooms past you and Mr. Odell again and all he says is ''Damn she seems feisty'' and you know it's aimed at Wilhemina and for a moment you debate whether to just turn around and pretend to be sick or needing to answer a phone call but you know you can't back out now, after all, you have missed seeing her for too long now.
All you wanna do is see her adorable orange hair, that you used to run your fingers through and untangle some knots after she had a long day, the dorky glasses that you sometimes made fun of, and beautiful pastel purple probably everywhere if this truly was her workplace after all. ''Come on'' your boss says, pulling you out of your thoughts yet again and you walk into the large room.
Eyes instantly wander to the source of purple in the room and the source of darkness in your heart and emptiness ever since she left but not only does your heart stop for a moment as you take a look at her, you blink a few times, now actually sure whether this is real or some kind of nightmare.
Wilhemina's hair is a much darker shape of red now and styled into a tall sharp quiff, no sign of her usual high ponytails anymore or the lighter and orange shape it used to be. You notice she doesn't wear glasses anymore and you are convinced her eyes look an even darker shape than before too. She is wearing a dress and it's also a very dark shade of purple with matching earrings. Even her makeup is darker, and as you see her sitting by her desk you can't deny how intimidating she seems, looking at some files, her cane resting on the desk right beside her. Even the cane is different now, it has a snake shape at the top and it's not the old plain one she used to have.
For a moment you believe you just walked right into your own personal nightmare, the funny, sometimes sassy, and beautiful girl you used to love now seems like a completely different and somewhat evil person. The Wilhemina you once loved and still have feelings for, as they never truly changed, seems gone and it seems like she was replaced by a new one, a colder version.
She would have never spoken to anyone like that or treated someone the way she just treated that girl that seems to be her assistant, by the looks of it. All the staring and observing Wilhemina happened in a matter of seconds although it feels like an eternity, everything is silent for a moment, all that is to be heard is your own heartbeat and the typing on Wilhemina's keyboard.
You watch as your boss approaches her and you follow him and finally, Wilhemina looks up noticing the presence of someone else in the room and her gaze is focused on him, so she hasn't seen you yet. He tries to shake her hand and says ''My name is Mr. Odell I have an appointment with Mr. Nutter and Mr. Pfister'' and she just looks at him and his hand with a slightly disgusted expression but she doesn't bother shaking his hand.
''Very well'' she says and takes a glance at you for a split second, noticing a second person in the room and her eyes wander back to her laptop thinking you are just some assistant but when she realizes who you are she immediately looks back over to you and she doesn't avert her gaze at first.
Wilhemina takes in your features for a moment, the sense of fashion, dressing smartly and formally but at the same time stunning as she always said, your hair, the improved makeup skills, and still the same details she always loved about you. She doesn't look into your eyes yet and you are interrupted when two men walk over.
One of them has brown hair and the other blonde hair and you try hard not to chuckle when you see them because they look hideous. ''Mr. Odell, nice to meet you'' they say and shake hands. ''This is Y/L/N maybe someone could show her around while we finalize the details?'' your boss suggests, taking you by surprise, and one of the two turns to Wilhemina and says ''Miss Venable would you give this beautiful lady a tour please''.
For a split second, you are convinced, she is about to kill him but you aren't sure if it's about the tour or compliment. ''Of course'' she mumbles and your boss and the two men leave and you are left there with your ex-girlfriend and awkward silence filling the room. You haven't looked up or into her eyes yet and it terrifies you, she terrifies you.
Wilhemina has no idea what to do or how to react after not seeing you for two years and the last time she did she walked out of your life and your relationship. The redhead looks at you and without looking into your eyes yet she knows the pain, she can see it and she can tell this is killing you inside, the last thing she ever wanted was to cause you pain.
You take a deep breath with your eyes closed and turn to Wilhemina and your eyes instantly lock and you look into her dark brown eyes and not leave her gaze for one moment. She takes a few slow steps towards you, her cane hitting the floor, and with every tap and echo in the room, it feels like your heart is ripped into more pieces and your past is here confronting you right at this moment.
''Mina'' is everything you can say but it comes out as a whisper while your voice cracks. Your ex-girlfriend's eyes close right away because she has missed hearing you call her that for the past two years but as she opens her eyes she reminds herself internally, who she is and that she is currently at her workplace.
''Follow me'' she instructs and you follow her while she walks down a corridor and into a room with big machines. While you follow her you can't understand what would have happened to her to turn into this cold-hearted person. She used to be the sweetest and kindest person you knew but clearly, something has changed. You cannot take your eyes off her and as she walks you into the room with machines, she explains about the work they do here and how they do it and as much as you try to focus and look at the things she shows you, you can't and Wilhemina notices.
''Do I bore you?'' she suddenly snaps in that cold voice again, her nostrils flaring and your heart feels like a knife was just thrown right into it. ''I'm sorr- sorry I-'' but you can't even think of a good enough excuse so you just look at the floor and try hard to keep your emotions at bay.
''Anyways, these are the machines and devices we use, whenever someone places a custom order we make sure to fulfill that order as efficient and quick as possible'' Wilhemina explains her voice still stern, sounding like she has given this tour so many times, she has memorized every single word.
However, you do notice her looking at you the entire time she explains and it seems like she wants you to say something but there are too many things that you want and wanted to say to her for years but you never imagined one day you would run into her like this. For several minutes the two of you stand in the rooms with machines, Wilhemina explaining and you trying hard to focus on her words intently.
''Y/N'' you hear the voice of your boss coming from the door, the two strange-looking men behind him, and you look at him, noticing the satisfied looks on their faces, indicating the deal worked well, and he says ''I'm finished, thank you, Miss, for giving her the tour'' he adds now focused on Wilhemina. ''Let's go'' he says and you walk in his direction without looking back at her and just as you are about to walk out of the door you look at her and say ''Thank you'' and then you walk out.
As you walk out of the large office building, back through the same long corridor, and past the front desk, you can't hear anything your boss is trying to say and the entire car ride back to the office you try and wrap your head around what just happened, abandoning every single word Mr. Odell is saying.
''This didn't happen wake up Y/N wake-up Y/N'' you keep repeating in your head but it's no use this is no nightmare this is reality.
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fakeikemen · 4 years ago
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The "Cave of Two Lovers" foreshadows the Zutara interactions in "Crossroads of Destiny"
[And maybe after that too; (yeah this part will be purely based on speculation)]
(See also: A meta that everybody has already written but I haven't because I was living under a rock and watched Avatar very recently)
Like seriously, it is so obvious? I see people try to interpret "The Legend Of Oma and Shu" in so many other ways; like yeah, you're free to interpret it however you want but— most people try to make sense of it while thinking that the tale is just a random occurrence? But it's not.
And here's why:
(I'm so sorry, I tried to add the "keep reading" link here because this gets kinda long but it just won't work) (Also click on the pictures if you want better resolution).
The tale of Oma and Shu is about two lovers who belonged to villages that were at war against each other. To continue meeting each other, they learnt earthbending to create caves in the mountain that divides the two villages. But one day Shu didn't come to the caves. He'd died in the war. So Oma unleashed a terrifying display of her power. And then when people were willing to listen to her, she called off the war and strived for peace between both the villages. As a result the city of Omashu was created— as a monument in remembrance of their love.
So in comparison:
1. Two people belonging to the opposite sides of the war
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(Other than the 100 year old war that has been going on, Zuko and Katara are involved in a very fundamental conflict: Capture the Avatar Vs. Protect the Avatar.)
2. With the same colour scheme:
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3. Share intimate moments in a cave lit by green crystals:
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A popular argument for this comparison is that; Oma and Shu had a positive impressions of each other when they first met. Unlike Zuko and Katara where Katara's first impression of Zuko was pretty negative because he invaded her village.
Zuko and Katara's first proper conversation happens in "Crossroads of Destiny" i.e.; the scene I'm talking about here. After this interaction that they have, I think it's safe to say that they did have positive impressions of each other. (Until Zuko made the wrong choice.)
Other than that, about the colour scheme being a coincidence: Here and here are posts by @marsreds about how the colours are definitely not a coincidence.
But seriously guys? Oma and Shu were the FIRST EARTHBENDERS and yet, instead of greens and yellows they were designed with RED and BLUE?!? (I'll take about Oma's green dress below.)
And on that note, why were Zuko and Katara the only ones who were thrown into the catacombs when everybody else was being held at the dungeons? The dungeons wouldn't have been easy to escape, neither for Zuko nor for Katara.
It's because Zuko and Katara were meant to share an intimate moment in a cave that was supposed to jog our visual memory to remind us of the caves built by Oma and Shu.
(Seriously though, I wasn't really paying attention during CoTL and thought that the Omashu legend was just put in to consume screen time, so I missed the red/blue thing. But then I watched CoD and saw the catacombs and I was like: "Isn't this like that cave made by the lovers?" And then I proceeded to have an oh shit moment because, I knew that Zutara was not canon so I never even considered the possibility of the narrative hinting at anything between them but then this happened. I mean, it's pretty darn obvious).
The colour of the crystals being the same in both caves is no coincidence either— if they just wanted two random caves with crystals, then they could've used a different colour because crystals of different colours exist:
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Moving on,
The Visual Cues:
According to the colour coding Zuko = Oma (red) and Katara = Shu (blue).
So,
EXHIBIT A:
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I feel like this one speaks for itself.
(I personally think that in this parallel Oma is in red because Katara at this point still sees Zuko as the face of the Fire Nation.)
EXHIBIT B:
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This sequence of frames show Oma (dressed in green, like Zuko was in the catacombs) and Shu (dressed in his usual blue), standing on neutral territory and reaching out to each other and then being torn apart by the war.
Pretty much like:
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The first time they are in each other's presence without the cause of their conflict (i.e. the Avatar), Zuko and Katara reach out to each other empathetically and attain bone deep understanding of each other within a matter of minutes. This whole encounter is in Ba Sing Se, which counts for the neutral territory because it hadn't been completely taken over by Fire Nation at that point.
And honestly? The raw vulnerability and intimacy of this scene and the high emotional energy of their powerful dynamic is just— wow. (I put off my binging spree for a whole day because I didn't have the heart to see Zutara not become canon after all of this.)
And soon after, Zuko and Katara face each other in battle, their tentative friendship torn apart, as they fight from their respective sides of the war.
EXHIBIT C:
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Whenever Oma and Shu appear in the same frame during the visualization of the legend, Oma is always on the left half of the frame and Shu is on the right.
Similarly, throughout all their interactions in the Catacombs, whenever the frame exclusively includes Zuko and Katara, Zuko (like Oma) is on the left half of the frame and Katara (like Shu) is on the right.
The parallels (or foils rather):
#1
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In CoTL, we see Song who is a healer (cures Iroh of his poisoning). She mentions that she hasn't seen her father since a Fire Nation raid took place in her village. Zuko empathises with her and says that he too hasn't seen his father in a long while. But then he refuses to say anything else about it.
Later Song tries to reach out to Zuko and tries to touch his scar— which Zuko prevents her from. She shows Zuko her own scars to show that she understood him.
And yet, Zuko doesn't open up to her.
After a while of life-changing and eye-opening experiences, in CoD, when Katara has her meltdown and cries while saying that her mother was snatched away from her by the Fire Nation; Zuko sees an opening to offer an olive branch and he takes it, he empathises with her and tells her that how his mother was snatched away by the Fire Nation as well.
Then Zuko opens up to Katara in a show of complete vulnerability. He openly talks about his scar and what he feels about it. In response, Katara offers to heal his scar and then Zuko lets her touch his scar.
It was nothing but a deliberate choice to make Song slightly parallel Katara (a healer, lost a parent because of the war) and then making Zuko not open up to her and not let her touch the scar, only for Katara to be the one he opened up to and allowed to touch the scar.
#2
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After being trapped with Aang in the cave in CoTL and sharing an intimate moment with him, as soon as they find their way out, Katara runs straight ahead without looking back.
But after her time with Zuko, trapped in the Catacombs in CoD, while leaving she turns back to look at Zuko.
Judging by the amount of time the animation puts into showing us Aang's disappointment at Katara running off and into making it clear that Katara did look back at Zuko and that Zuko looked right back at her, to me, it feels like the choice to show this was pretty deliberate.
(Turning back to look at a person while leaving is a romantic trope that has been overused to death? Or is it just bollywood?)
Also I wouldn't have paid this much attention to this small detail if not for the fact that just a hint of the Omashu legend theme is played here?
No, I swear I'm not making it up.
The Omashu legend theme is used in CoD:
The Omashu legend theme is largely dominated by the music of a stringed instrument (forgive me, I don't know what it's called) alongwith a steady melody playing in the background.
In CoD, when Katara and Zuko start conversing for real, (i.e.; when Katara says: "I'm sorry I yelled at you.") what sounds like a variation of the background melody in the Omashu legend theme, starts its subtle ascent as the background score, but sans the music of the stringed instrument.
It is when Katara says: "Maybe you could be free of it." [About Zuko's scar], when then first hint of the stringed instrument is heard. It is only a single note of the strings but it's there. And this "single note" sound keeps on repeating at regular intervals with the melody building up until Aang and Iroh burst into the catacombs.
But then, when Katara is leaving with Aang and she turns back to look at Zuko, this time the music that plays for a few seconds at best, is dominated by the stringed instrument again and this time it's unmistakable.
Also I don't think this music is used anywhere else in the course of the whole show? So it can't really be a coincidence? But I don't really know. I'm saying this on the basis of as far as my memory can reach.
And this is as far as canon stands testimony to what I am trying to say here.
But what about the second half of the story yk, the dying thing, you say?
Well this is where the speculations come in.
Speculation Time:
#1
As a thumb rule, a romance foreshadowed by a tragic tale is meant to have a happy ending.
So this time when Katara's (Shu) life is in danger (Azula's lightning bolt), Zuko (Oma) steps in at the nick of time to save her life (by jumping infront of Katara to intercept the lightning).
(Since I have crossed the limit of images in a post, here is a post by @araeph which illustrates this point.)
Yes, I am completely aware that Zuko taking the lightning bolt for Katara is not his declaration of love for her. What I mean to say is that the whole scene was so very painfully obviously romantically framed (the immediate change in music when Zuko realises where the lightning bolt was headed, both of their expressions, Zuko's agonized "Nooooo", the slow-mo throughout the shot).
I am also aware that Zuko would've taken the lightning bolt for anyone. But it is the narrative that demands that Zuko take the lightning bolt for Katara and Katara only. Because this has atleast 10 different payoffs (a direct callback to the Book 2 finale where Azula had shot Aang with the lightning; the grief of which was for Katara to bear but this time Zuko himself stands between the lightning and Katara instead of being the silent spectator, the culmination of both Zuko and Katara's personal character arcs, Zuko's scar would parallel Aang's: Aang got it because he chose Katara over the world and Zuko got it because he was willing to give up the world to save Katara, etc, etc).
Tl;dr: The lightning scene wouldn't hold all that much weight if it wasn't Zuko taking the hit for Katara because the narrative literally demands it.
#2
This is where we start wading into really murky waters.
From mucking around on Tumblr due to Zutara feels™, I came across this post where some of the ideas for Book 4 were written:
• The Southern Water Tribe experienced the longest series of attacks from the Fire Nation. Zuko and Katara become political partners and work together to help end the animosity and repair relations between their two nations.
• Just like how Zuko learned to appreciate the Earth Kingdom, he would learn to appreciate the Water Tribes. Katara also learns to respect the complexity of Fire Nation culture. There is no such thing as an “evil” nation.
And that basically means that Zuko and Katara would've been working together to de-escalate the hostility between their respective nations and improve the relations between the two nations, while learning about each other's cultures simultaneously as the world would be in the process of being rebuilt after the war and they would be major role-players in shaping the new world.
Which is quite similar to how Oma strived for peace between the two villages and then as a result of the improved relations between the villages, the city of Omashu was built as a monument to the love story of Oma and Shu; which might just be symbolic of building a new world where both the villages could live in peace due to the initiative taken by Oma on behalf of herself and Shu.
The story would've come a full circle; that's all I'm saying.
If you've stuck around for this long, thank you for taking the time to read this long ass post with points that you may already have read ♥️
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hamatoclan76 · 4 years ago
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Examples of Raphael's inferiority complex in Tmnt 2012
1) One clear example is in the first episode when Splinter chooses Leo to be the leader of the team.
Leo raises his hand and asks if he can lead the team, Raph is immediately upset by this and claims that he should be the leader since he "kicked Leo's butt" at the start of the episode.
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Seconds after Splinter chooses Leonardo to be the leader, Raph seems to be really hurt by this.
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Leo feels sorry about his brother and tries to say he has nothing against him.This shows that Leo is aware that Raph wanted to lead the team, is just Splinter thought that Leonardo was better suited for the role since he's more mature in some ways and knows how to carry the burden better.
This only makes Raph leave the dojo, he's clearly affected by this, even when he pretends he is not.
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This scene is what motivates him to constantly annoy and question Leonardo in the series, specially at the start of season 1.
One of the reasons he usually doesn't follow Leo's orders is because deep down he really thinks that Master Splinter loves more Leo than him, which is not true: Hamato Yoshi loves their sons equally but Raph doesn't feel this way.
One could argue that this comes from growing up with a single father and three brothers, which can lead to compete for their father's approval and love. This can happen unintentionally, the father may try to spent as much time as possible with each son but sometimes competition between siblings is inevitable.
Splinter doesn't approve this type of behaviour at all and usually tries stopping the turtles when he notices they aren't fighting just for training or fun. (See "Mousers Attack!" As a good example of this)
2) "New girl in the town"
The episode starts with Leo and Raph arguing about who should be the leader, Raph blames Leonardo for letting Snakeweed get away, in return Leo blames his brother for not following his orders like he's supossed to.
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Tired of Raphael's attitude, Leo lets him be the new leader and leaves the team.
Unlike "Follow the leader", "New girl in the town" seems to focus on their sibling rivalry since is what made Leo leave in first place.
The episode ends with two brothers coming to a mutual understading of what means to be a team, how being a leader is not always an easy task and not everyone is ready to be one. (In Raph's case)
This one is another good example of Raph thinking he should be the one giving the orders, implying he's jealous of his brother and thoughout the episode he tries to prove he's better than Leo.
3) "The good, the bad and Casey Jones"
This episode starts pretty much the same way that Rise of the turtles does: With the turtles training. The difference here is that this time is the one Leonardo who beats Raphael.
And Raph doesn't like it one bit.
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This is his expression after Leo wins the game, which reads as him holding a grudge against the other turtle.
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What makes him really angry is watching Leonardo sitting in front of Splinter, making him believe that his brother is somehow "stealing" his father's love from him again.
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This implies that one of the roots of Raphael's anger issues is caused by his feelings of jealousy and inferiority that come from this sibling rivalry.
I say is *one*, not the *only* reason. Raph is a very emotional character who feels emotions intensely, is very hard for him to hide them and his family know this very well.
After realizing how destructive his anger is, he later awkwardly apologizes to Leo for getting carried away in the match, which is quite impressive considering Raph is quite stubborn when it comes to admitting he did something wrong.
4) "Riddle of the Ancient Aeons"
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In the planet of the Aeons, there's dark aura that makes the protagonists bring their darkest thoughts to the surface and fight against each other.
In one moment Leo and Raph start arguing: Leo tells Raph how "he has always been jealous of him", in response Raph says this: "That's because your were always Splinter's favourite"! And then he tries to fight Leo using his sais.
Instead of fighting him, Leo stops his hot-headed brother by giving him a hug and reminding him of how much he loves him.
This was one of the few times Raph was very explicit about his inferiority complex, most of time he tries hiding it from his family and only drops subtle hints about his real feelings.
Leo's reaction to Raphael's outburst is really unexpected as well, it mades me think that Leonardo didn't know that Raph's insecurities were mainly caused by him feeling he was less important or thinking he wasn't good enough for their father.
He hugging and telling Raph: "I love you, bro" could be read as him trying to say that he doesn't hate Raphael and he didn't mean to make him feel "less loved" by Splinter.
For those who were paying attention to Raph's character, him being jealous of Leonardo is nothing new. What is shocking is actually listening to Raph admitting how he really feels (or felt) in front of his family and friends.
He usually prefers to keep his personal thoughts to himself rather than talk about them with another person.
As for Splinter, he doesn't like watching his sons fighting over him or for no reason. When he saw that Raph and Leo started fighting in "Mousers Attack!" And weren't taking their training seriously, he stopped them and asked them to work together as team.
When it comes to Leo and Raph, Splinter just wants them to get along despite their differences. If they get carried away in their matches, Splinter would ask them to stop or intervene to separate them.
It's not that he "loves Raphael less", is that he thinks Leonardo is more responsible to be the leader of the team. He doesn't have a "favourite son", he really loves ALL of them.
175 notes · View notes
madeofitzits · 5 years ago
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In honor of the impending return of Brooklyn 99, here are 99 reasons that...
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1. He was precocious enough to know, at 5 years old, that he wanted to change his name (x)
 2. He has a bunch of nicknames: Sandy Amberg, Young Sandwich, etc. but the most endearing one is 'Droidy', his family's name for him (x) 
3. He is still super close friends with people he's known since: Elementary School (Chelsea Peretti) (x)...
4. Junior High/High School (Kiv and Jorm) (x) 
5. … Summer Camp (Irene Neuwirth) (x)
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7.  ...and Film School (Chester Tam) (x)
8. Before he met Joanna, he dated other famous ladies but - out of respect - he never discussed it/them (x) 
9. He loves turtles and tortoises. When he was a kid, he had a pet turtle that he named 'Squirt' because the first time he held it, it peed on him. His Mom, Margie, accidentally killed Squirt when Andy was at Summer camp... (x)
10. … Maybe this is why, when shooting 'Popstar', Andy fell hard for Maximus (Conner 4 Real's turtle). He says they "had a good thing going" and that he wanted to adopt him. In the end, he decided against it because there are a bunch of coyotes in his neighborhood and he was worried the little guy wouldn't be safe. (Popstar: DVD Commentary)
11. Speaking of his Mom, despite being a super private person, he appeared on 'Finding your Roots' so that he could help her track down her birth family (x)
12. When he succeeded he cried (although we never got to see it on camera) (x)
13. That's because, like all good boys, he loves his Mama which is why - as part of the same episode - he said "My mom is basically the kindest person I know… and many people would corroborate that" (x)
14. Andy's Sisters, Hannie (Johanna) and Darrow, used to make him wear diapers and put his hair in pigtails until he was 5 years old. He says he didn't mind because he just liked that they were paying attention to him (x)
15. That's why he sees his identity in comedy as being 'America's kid brother'. When he was young, he would annoy his sisters until they laughed and he claims to have been replicating that approach to entertainment ever since
16. Although a bunch of his characters have 'Daddy Issues', Andy definitely doesn't. He's super close with his Papa (Joe) and has said "he's a good man" and "the best Dad in the world" (x) 
17. Joe was Andy's youth soccer coach and in one scene in 'Hot Rod', Joe's favorite photograph can be seen in the background. It shows a very young Andy posing with a soccer ball, after "scoring the winning goal against Mersey" (x)
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18. He's been a loyal Golden State Warriors fan since he was a little kid, living in Oakland (then Berkeley) and, in 2010, he correctly predicted that they would "win a Championship in my lifetime" (x) 
19. The proceeds from his Umami Burger ('The Samburger') went to a deafness early detection program in Berkeley. This cause is close to his heart because Margie uses hearing aids and used to work in the special needs program, teaching deaf kids (x)
20. He, Kiv, and Jorm have made multiple donations to their old school district, including $250 000 to its theater program (x)
21. On the subject of The Lonely Island; Andy always goes out of his way to make sure that everyone knows how much he owes to his buddies. For instance, he told Marc Maron, during his WTF appearance, that "I get a lot of credit for what Kiv and Jorm have done" (x)
22. He makes this face when he knows he’s said something naughty…
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(Gif credit: @andrewsambags)
23. During his 'Wild Horses' appearance, he said that he can't watch scary movies because they freak him out too much. He told 'Complex' that he's still scared of 'The Shining' (x)...
24. … Similarly, when he was at UC Santa Cruz he worked at the Del Mar movie theater and he had a hard time coping with screenings of 'Species 2' (x)
25. He fell in love with Joanna, the moment he met her, when she greeted him by addressing him as 'Steve the C**t' (x)
 26. He listened to 'Ys', everyday for a year, before he and Joanna started dating (x)
27. He bought the original portrait that was used as the basis of the cover art for 'Ys' and gave it to Joanna as a Christmas present, so that she could hang it in her music room (x)
 28. He loves birds and goes hiking and birding with Joanna (x)
 29. Every new comment he makes about Joanna becomes an instant contender for 'most beautiful thing a person has ever said about their spouse' (x)
30. For example, he readily admits that Jake's iconic heart eyes are the result of him thinking about his amazing wife (x)
31. There are many stories about how incredibly romantic Andy and Joanna's wedding was and Jorm has said that it featured "the most magical vows I've ever heard" (x)
32. The Newsombergs now live in Charlie Chaplin's old house (x)
33. On the Emmys Red Carpet (2015), the year he hosted, they took a momentary break from posing for the world's press to whisper 'I love you' to each other (x)
34. At last year's Vanity Fair party, Andy carried Joanna's purse for her so she could grab a snack (x)
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35. He was a semi-permanent fixture in the audience for her recent run of shows for the 'Strings/Keys Incident' tour, even officially confirming his status as the 'President of her Fan Club' (x)
36. He used his Golden Globes monologue to call out the government for framing and murdering the Black Panthers (x)
37. On the Carpet for the Guy's Choice Awards, he called the event "a ridiculous farce", adding that "men already have it so easy - it's insane that there's a show that celebrates them". That makes sense when you consider that he, Kiv and Jorm have made an entire career out of parodying toxic masculinity (x)
38. He once said that only "idiot-ass men" think that women aren't funny (x)
39. He’s been wearing glasses since 7th Grade and he has the most heartbreakingly cute habit of nudging them up his nose, (especially when he wears his Sol Moscot frames) (x)...
40. ... and of rubbing his eyes under them (x)
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41. He barely ever wears glasses for roles but he also avoids contacts (because he doesn't like touching his eyeballs) which means he's almost always 'acting blind' (x)
42. He has worn his glasses in character a few times - as 'himself' ('Lady Dynamite'), as 'Paul' ('I Think You Should Leave') and during a very small number of SNL sketches (e.g. during his one appearance in a 'Gilly' with Kristen Wiig) (x) 
43. He can't tolerate glare and when that makes him squint it's a sight that's too cute for words (x)
44. He owns about six outfits and has been rotating them for well over a decade (x) 
45. He barely ever breaks during shooting/while performing, so when he does it's aggressively adorable. (x), (x)
46. He's a grown ass man who persuades people to come with him to the bathroom because if he goes by himself he'll get lonely (x)
47. He didn't announce he was leaving SNL, until after his last appearance, selflessly choosing not to detract from Kirsten Wiig's huge and emotional send-off (x) 
48. He undertook a quest to smell like Lorne Michaels (x) 
49. He's ageing like a fine wine (x)
50. To protect their daughter's privacy, Andy and Joanna never announced that they were expecting. They've never released their little girl's name or date of birth and most news outlets still report that they became parents in August 2017 (even though that's inaccurate) (x)
51. Although he's careful not to talk about his daughter often, sometimes he can't keep from gushing about her. For example, when asked about his first year of fatherhood he said: "It’s been the best thing that’s ever happened to me. Just like a beautiful, incredible dream. It has surpassed every expectation I ever had. It’s definitely been very blissful" (x)
52. After their daughter was born, Andy and Joanna spent the first 40 days at home with her (in a practice known as 'confinement'). He's described it as being "a really special time". (x) 
53. Andy is famously mild-mannered but, when asked about what triggers his 'Dad claws', he admitted that if anyone attempted to touch his daughter, without permission, he'd "probably sock them hard in the face"…
54. ...Characteristically, he went on to add that he hopes that never happens, since he hasn't been in a fight since 6th Grade (x)
55. Cyndi Lauper was his first celebrity crush and he plays her record ('She's so unusual') for his daughter all the time. (x)
56. His is the very definition of a precious laugh (x)...
57. It's made even more wonderful by the way it makes his voice go high-pitched (x)
58.  … and the way it causes his eyebrow to rise involuntarily  
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59. It's impossible not to smile at his impression of his Mom (x)
60. And laugh at his impression of John Mulaney (x)
61. He was so convinced he wouldn't win the Golden Globe for Best Actor in a Comedy or Musical, that he didn't prepare a speech. Instead, as he explained to David Letterman, he "just went… and started drinking". The resulting list of improvised 'thank yous' was perfect in every way (x)
62. As producers, Andy, Kiv and Jorm have given life to some amazing projects ('Alone Together', 'Brigsby Bear', 'I Think You Should Leave')...
63. … and gone out of their way to support women in comedy ('Party Over Here', 'PEN15') (x)
64. As well as being a comedy legend, he's a super-talented dramatic actor, who gave the performance of a lifetime in 'Celeste and Jesse Forever' but, after the movie wrapped, and it was time to do press for it, he was straight back to goofing around (x) 
65. His lip bite should be illegal (x)
66. Even though he wears the same vanishingly small number of outfits, over and over, he has a vast collection of the most excellent socks (x)
67. He always gives 'editing notes' during his own interviews (x)
68. He has a super sweet and sincere way of thanking interviewers when they compliment him (x)
69. He adjusts his hoodie constantly (x)
70. The two most perfect Jake laughs in b99 are actually real Andy laughs 'https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W38A_xuXaeg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sVm9nYrTWRQ
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71. Virtually everyone who has ever worked with Andy has talked about what a wonderful person he is. This explains why so many of them have been involved with more than one of his projects (x)
72. It's not only his colleagues who talk about what a delight he is (x), (x)
73. This lovestruck fool wore his own wife's merch when he went out to dinner (x)
74. No one else uses the word 'dinky' quite like Andy (x). The same goes for 'snacky' (see point 70)
75. He does this with his tongue (x)
76. He still likes to play soccer but his eyesight is so bad that he has to keep his glasses on for it
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77. When he lets his gorgeous floofy hair grow a little it sits perfectly over the arms of his glasses (x)
78. He gifted the world with Jakey's little curl (x)
79. At the James Franco Roast, he couldn't bring himself to be mean to anyone except himself (and Jeff Ross, a little!) (x)
80. In fact, he's always been willing to laugh at himself (x) and he still is (x)
81. He changes b99 scripts to make them more feminist (x)
82. Despite their humble insistence that they just benefited from 'good timing', the reality is that Andy, Kiv and Jorm (along with Chris Parnell) revolutionized digital media, when 'Lazy Sunday' popularized YouTube, increasing its traffic by 85% overnight (x)
83. He once attended the Vanity Fair party because his Mom told him to (x)
84. He has an amazing way of subtly but firmly shutting down inappropriate questions, like when this interviewer suggested that Holt being gay was something that could have been played for laughs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idQsYQfkR5o
85. He auditioned for SNL at the same time as Bill Hader. Hader thought he'd blown it because Andy had a bunch of props and Bill had none. In the meantime, Andy thought he'd blown it when he saw Hader and realized 'this guy doesn't need any props' (x) 
86. His bromance with Seth Meyers is one for the ages (x)
87. Every single second of this video is proof of why Andy, Kiv and Jorm deserve the world (x)
88. He once dragged Mulaney up on stage for SNL Goodnights, even though writers weren't allowed to join in (x)
89. He has a hilarious phobia of pooping anywhere except his own bathroom (x) 
90. His beautiful, beautiful, face: His smile (radiant), his eyes (caramel - hella disarming), his ears (adorably asymmetrical), his nose (perfect), His chin (the dimple… *swoon*), his jaw (could cut glass), The 'Sambeard' (another amazing layer of pretty) (x)
91. His body: His butt (x), his thighs, (x) his soft lil tummy (The ‘Sambelly’) (x), his hands. (x), his arms (x), his hips…
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(Gif credit: @amystiago /@badpostandy on Twitter)
92. All signs point to the fact that, like Jake, Andy uses his glasses case as a wallet (x) 
93. Jake's "cool-cool-cool-cool-cool-cool" is an irl Andy-ism that the writers worked into b99 scripts. What's even better is that Joanna does it, too (x)
94. He has a really good arm and is low key competitive, which is super hot https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e32K_nBDy3Q
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95. He's one half of the cutest Red Carpet pose of all time (x)
96. He barely ever seems to get mad but if angry Jake is anything to go by, maybe he should... (x)
97. He's a huge nerd, who geeks out over GOT, LOTR, 'Star Wars', 'Alien(s)' and anything relating to time travel (x), (x)
98. He has a gorgeous speaking voice, especially when he’s tired or a little sick. (Bonus points for any time he uses the word ‘correct’. See point 30) (x) 
99. He’s still so committed to his b99 fans and fam, even after all this time and is as excited as the rest of us that...
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429 notes · View notes
kdramaanalyst · 5 years ago
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THE KING: ETERNAL MONARCH REVIEW
EDIT: I AM SO SORRY, THIS IS A SECONDARY BLOG AND I JUST LEARNED THAT I CAN'T REPLY TO COMMENTS. PLEASE CHECK MY PINNED BLOG WHERE I WROTE ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. THANK YOU!
Spoilers ahead!!! Read at your own risk. Once again, I am not an expert and these are my personal opinions. If you have disagreements, let's talk it over. Don't judge me, let's judge the show together instead and have an understanding.
For the first drama that I am going to review, I chose The King: Eternal Monarch. A lot of viewers who supported the show with all of their hearts could still not get over its ending. Others who like to binge-watch are relieved because they can finally watch the entire series without waiting for a new episode to air. While some are still mulling over about watching it. Well, I hope I could help you with this review.
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• Introduction to the Drama
Short gist:
The story revolves around Lee Gon, present King of Kingdom of Corea. He witnessed his father’s death when he was young, an incident that haunted him until he grew older. Due to unfortunate circumstances, a legendary flute with powers called Manpasikjeok that can open different worlds was cut in half. He was able to get hold half of the flute, while the other half was obtained by Lee Lim, his uncle who killed his father. Lee Lim had been going back and forth two different worlds, plotting foul pursuits to fulfill his evil desires, and disrupting the peace between the two worlds. In order to restore balance and order, Lee Gon also traveled between worlds, meeting Jeong Tae Eul who soon became a significant person in his life.
If you've been watching Korean Dramas for quite a while now, you must be familiar with some of the characters of The King: Eternal Monarch, especially the lead.
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If you call yourself a k-drama fan and you don't know who Lee Minho is, give yourself a slap (just kidding, please don't take that seriously). Lee Minho has a good reputation because of his experience, acting skills and obviously, his gorgeous face. He has an impressive list of successful dramas and movies! Most of us probably knew him through his breakthrough role in Boys Over Flowers.
Meanwhile, Kim Go Eun, despite being fairly new to small screen (she first started appearing in movies), is also highly distinguished by a lot of k-drama fans. In all three dramas she starred in, including The King, she always got the lead role. His leading men are no joke either. And because of Kim Go Eun, many of us still wants to be the goblin's bride.
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Among the cast also includes the familiar faces of Woo Do Hwan, Kim Kyung Nam, Jung Eun Chae, and Lee Jung Jin.
Anyway, I'll try to share every thought I have from the first time I watched it until it ended. I will also try not to give so much spoilers because the drama just ended. I will talk first about my experience watching it and then I will list at the very bottom some of the issues I have and that list contains major spoilers so watch out for that. As you notice, I always warn you with spoilers using red font color.
• The Experience
When I watched the first teaser of the drama, I got intrigued and a little confused. What worlds are they talking about? Do they have super powers? Is this a historical drama? Questions were instantly formed in my head.
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It also reminded me of the drama Queen In Hyun's Man because of a similar scene where the leading man is riding his horse in the middle of the city and finding his woman. But that's just it, the two dramas are completely different. I just mentioned it because others may have felt the same way.
I don't usually watch dramas while it's still fresh. I wait for about two to three weeks before the schedule of the ending so I can binge watch without waiting so much. When I watched The King, there were already 12 episodes available on Netflix. Usually, I would finish 12 episodes in 1-3 days, and if the drama is really good and it's MY STYLE (i said that in an obviously fake Korean accent), I could watch it for an entire day.
However, I finished those 12 episodes in 2 weeks...
Why??? Why did it take me that long???
I wouldn't say I was bored, it's just that during the first few episodes, nothing caught my interest yet. I wasn't convinced that it was a good drama. There was nothing special and I didn't know what to look forward to that's why I couldn't watch it continuously. I got lazy. The pace was slow and the story build up was a little stagnant. It was too slow that I even started watching a long length saeguk just so I can watch something else.
I could have skipped some parts and dropped it but I continued watching and gave it a chance. Though it was a good thing that I didn't stop because as I watched more episodes, the story actually became more exciting. Finally, I saw some progress. I started to get invested in the drama after the eighth episode. That's when the story felt more alive. Finally, there were revelations, more conflicts arose, more emotions were shown, and the story got deeper. I began to appreciate the drama. However, I still don't like the fact that it took me 8 episodes before I started to like it.
• Points that I Liked About the Drama
1. The plot seemed like it's going to be too science fiction-y but it's just the right amount. I was worried that it might be too much for me to handle but it was just okay (i am a potato who dislikes thinking so much, but that depends on my mood lololol). I liked how there's a mix of history in the drama, as well as of politics but it still feels modern. There is a balance.
2. The distinction between the Kingdom of Corea and Republic of Korea is impressive. It's obvious that they put a lot of effort in building their vision of KOC to life.
3. Many people were saying that it's hella confusing and so much was going on. I don't think so. They actually made it easy for viewers to understand about parallel worlds. You don't have to study science facts just to get this drama's concept. I think the slow pace did its job well in this part.
4. The story is unpredictable. You never know what's going to happen next, that's the strength of The King's concept. Because of the two different worlds and the crazy number of characters, there could be a lot of possibilities and backstories.
5. The action scenes are commmendable. I liked the action scenes, the one during the last episode is probably my favorite.
• Points that I Didn't Like About the Drama
1. The slow pace. I don't think I still need to explain more but it totally ruined my whole experience of watching the drama.
2. Many characters didn't leave much impact. Their acting was great, however, I don't see a lot of personalities that standout. The most remarkable ones for me are the characters played by Woo Do Hwan. The other characters, especially the lead, the prime minister and the traitor were okay, too. The others were just bland and years from now, I probably won't remember most of them.
• The Ending (spoiler alert!)
The ending was good. It didn't feel rushed and everyone had a separate ending of their own. I just wished there was more Nari and Eunsup / Yeong and Seung A moment in the end, the conclusion was fine though. I don't like that Prime Minister Koo ended up in jail but Luna became a cop...
I just have one issue regarding the ending that they decided on. In the end they didn't show if Tae Eul became a queen. Well, it would be weird if she became one considering there is Luna in KOC. They can't be together in ROK, too because Gon's counterpart was able to live. So... what? They just kept traveling whenever they have time? Because if that's the case, doesn't that mean they will hide their relationship forever??? I liked that they ended up together but I wish they also kept this in mind. Because it kinda makes me sad. Lol.
• Final Thoughts
Overall, it was alright. It was over-hyped by netizens due to the amazing casting and promotions, but it's not bad at all.
Would I watch it again? No.
Would I recommend it? Yes. Give it a try! I honestly thought I wouldn't like it but I still did, even if it took me 8 episodes, I wouldn't say it wasn't worth it. If you enjoy fantasy dramas with complicated twists and conflicts, this drama is for you. Just have patience and prepare yourself mentally when you've reached the middle. This drama is gloomy and a little heavy, too. It was serious and has a very few humorous scenes.
I am giving The King: Eternal Monarch a 7/10. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
• The King: Eternal Monarch OST Top 5
There are 13 songs in total and everything is so good! I wish I got to hear more of the songs in the drama, some were just played briefly. I swear every song makes me feel things. Choosing just 5 songs is really hard. If you don't watch dramas but love music, give these a listen!!!
My Day Is Full Of You by Zico, Wendy
Orbit by Hwasa
I Fall In Love by Ha Sungwoon
I Just Want To Stay With You by Zion.T
Please Don't Cry by Davichi
Now I'll move on to some of my "issues". This section isn't really what you think. The word "issues" is just intriguing ㅋㅋㅋ but this is just a compilation of my opinions, observations, feelings and other stuff no one might care about in the series. If you have answers for my questions or if you can explain it for me, please enlighten me. Major spoiler ahead!!!
• Issues
1. During the time when Lee Gon was time traveling and finally got back to Repuplic of Korea, it probably took him a lot of time, right? He even took his time to take care of Tae Eul in the hospital. I wish they also showed what was happening in Kingdom of Corea during that time because he's a king and his absence might have caused a ruckus in his kingdom. I can even picture the palace lady Noh getting really worried as Lee Gon travels. The moment he came back, they only gave him updates as if everything was okay.
But since they didn't show it, I guess it is safe to assume that nothing much happened in his kingdom back then. 🤷‍♀️
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2. When Gon and Tae Eul met again in Gwanghwamun, why did Tae Eul hug him? In my understanding, at that period of time, Tae Eul only met him twice—once when she was 5 and once when she was 27. So why did she hug him suddenly as if she knows he's going to be a significant person in her life? Their dialogue when they met again when she was 27 wasn't even enough for her to act that way.
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3. I hope they also gave Nari more lines and importance. Maybe it's just me, but at first, I thought she and her KOC counterpart would have more significant roles. When I think of it, even without her, the story could still go on. Though this is just a minor issue. ✌
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4. Prime Minister Koo. She was a villain, but I didn't really hate her until the last 4-5 episodes (can't recall the exact episode, sorry), though I wouldn't say I hated her so much. I actually liked her at first! She's ambitious, fierce, independent and intelligent. She just got blinded by greed.
My issue here is, am I really supposed to feel like that? In my opinion, her character has the potential to become more heinous and despiteful. I was wondering why they didn't turn her into someone like that? She was just greedy, bitchy, a little sly and annoying.
5. Lee Gon's and Tae Eul's love for each other was a little shallow. Sure, the man who saved Lee Gon when he was a child, had Tae Eul's ID. But how sure was Lee Gon that the woman who owns the I.D. is not a villain? The woman in the ID could lead him to the man who saved him, yes, but it still bugs me how easily they fell in love especially on Lee Gon's part. Maybe I'm just thinking too much. I am sorry. 😅
In spite of that, I still liked their love progression. I didn't ship them that hard but their chemistry wasn't cringey and forced.
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6. The scene where Lee Gon gave Tae Eul flowers and then left, was a little confusing. It didn't break my heart, too. I just felt a little sad while watching that scene because Kim Go Eun's acting was good.
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7. Who the f is thay yoyo boy??? My guts tell me he's a part of the flute or something because he knows a lot. But I wish it was explained more. It looked weird how he just suddenly appears sometimes and suddenly talks some sense. He remains a mystery.
8. Why the f is Jeong Tae Eul a flat earther??? Well, at least she had a character development in the end. It just annoyed me lmao
9. I don't get why people keep comparing The King: Eternal Monarch to Goblin. Why??? They don't even have the same plot or concept.
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10. Court lady Noh was from Republic of Korea... What? Was that necessary?
Don't mind me. Don't mind me. Don't mind me.
Anyway I hate how tumblr wasn't able to save my draft when I was writing additional content. I lost half of it and it makes me furious!!! I had to redo the draft but I can no longer remember some of the things I wrote. I am sad because I lost something that can't be brought back again. This experience earned me a lesson.
That's it for my first review. What are your thoughts? I am a horrible reviewer, I know, but I will do better in the future. Thank you for reading!!!
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deanothecheynosaur · 5 years ago
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The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina Part 3 (2020)
**SPOILERS**
Ok, I have already completed the season, but I'm still gonna break it down episode by episode and give my thoughts during in retrospect. If you have not seen Parts 1 or 2, I recommend you start there.
Chapter 21: The Hellbound Heart
So, Sabrina (Kiernan Shipka) is trying to get Nick Scratch (Gavin Leatherwood) back out of hell and separated from Lucifer (Luke Cook). If you had forgotten, during part 2 Sabrina found out that Lucifer Morningstar was her biological father, and they trapped Lucifer inside of Nick. She enlists Roz (Jaz Sinclair), Harvey (Ross Lynch), and Theo (Lachlan Watson) to help. Besides the fact that their all besties, I have no idea what help Harvey or Theo would be. Theo is at least loyal and listens to reason. Harvey just goes off all the time. Roz is the most useful with her "cunning." Anyway. Before they figure out how to get to Hell, Mrs. Wardwell (Michelle Gomez) comes back to Baxter High with a new obsession with Dante's Inferno. But she's not possessed by Lilith (Michelle Gomez) anymore; Lilith is too busy defending her title as Queen of Hell. Also, props to Michelle Gomez. She flawlessly played two very different characters this season. Meanwhile, Zelda (Miranda Otto) and Hilda (Lucy Davis) are trying to save the coven because their powers are all fading. They aren't sure what to do with the remaining students or what to tell them. All of their powers are a gift from Lucifer, but he's not really in the position (or the mood) to be giving them any powers. Down in New Orleans, Ambrose (Chance Perdomo) and Prudence (Tati Gabrielle) are on their mission to find her father. When they come up short, they turn to Voodoo Priestess Mambo Marie (Skye P. Marshall) to help them with a different kind of magic. Dorian Gray (Jedidiah Goodacre -that is quite a name-) helps Sabrina and friends to get into Hell as long as they bring him a magic flower. They go in without any real plan, as you do. Seriously. Not even a map. Wtf. Luckily, they walked into the Shores of Sorrow and met Caliban (Sam Corlett), who told them to follow the river of blood because "all blood leads to Pandemonium." That's the capitol city of Hell I guess? They have lots of fun on the way, and when they get there, Lilith says that Sabrina has to deal with the Kings of Hell for her, but Lucifer tells Sabrina that she has to take the throne for herself. It has to be a Morningstar. Well, she does, but the Kings aren't convinced. Then our friend Caliban shows up again, naming himself Prince of Hell, and challenging Sabrina for the throne. It is worth noting that Caliban is ridiculously hot. And generally shirtless. Sabrina accepts the throne to get Nick out of Hell. Which is problematic for a lot of reasons, but most of all that she decides to do this BEFORE separating him from Lucifer. So she's just gonna keep Nick/Lucifer tied up in the dungeon until she finds another flesh acheron to hold Lucifer. What could go wrong?
I really expected it to take longer for Sabrina to get to Nick, but considering the very twisted maze part 3 went down, getting to Pandemonium is pretty minor. Also, Sabrina's whole "I'ma do what I want and not tell my aunts so they don't stop me" is getting old.
Chapter 22: Drag Me to Hell
This one is a little less convoluted. Sabrina finds out that one of her duties as Queen is to drag souls to Hell. Specifically souls who have made a deal with the devil. We can infer from this that the only people who go to Hell are those who have sold their soul, so it would be far easier to not go there than some people in the real world would have me believe. The first soul, a cute old man who wanted to be chess Grand Champion, Sabrina decided to show mercy and sent him to heaven. Didn't go over super well with the Kings of Hell. Also, Sabrina is now a cheerleader at Baxter High. They call themselves the Ravenettes. There's a dance team from my high school called the Raiderettes, so that confused me for a sec. Lots more singing pop songs then actual cheers though. Reminds me of the Jailhouse Rock scene in Riverdale. I digress. Zelda has decided to reopen the academy and that she and Hilda were going to teach. Hilda was more voluntold. Agatha (Adeline Rudolph) doesn't really respond well. Prudence and Ambrose discover that Father Blackwood (Richard Coyle) is in Loch Ness, which is apparently super magical and can bend time and space? Idk, but I was highly disappointed that we didn't see Nessie. They see him at the very end of the episode looking like Mr. Bean at the end of the live action Scooby-Doo movie. They take him back to Greendale and use him to hold Lucifer so Nick can be free. Because what the world needs is Blackwood and Lucifer together. Back to Brina. Her second soul to collect (apparently this is a daily task for the ruler of Hell but she only does these two so there's a plot hole) is the ice cream man, Jimmy Platt (Matty Finochio). He tells her that he would like to extend his contract again by eating the heart of an innocent child. Sabrina confronts Lucifer about this later, apparently it didn't have to be a child, just an innocent soul. Adult virgins, beware. Sabrina tells Jimmy no (obvi) but Jimmy has already hidden the kid. So now she has to find this kid and collect his soul before the end of the day or there will be a coup in Hell. Sabrina wisely decides on just Roz to help her with this one. Roz is also the one who warns Sabrina against transporting herself into a freezer with no more information, but as per usual Sabrina goes anyway. Jimmy put warding sigils on the walls, so she's stuck and powerless. Luckily, Lilith knows what the fuck she's doing (as opposed to Sabrina who only thinks she does) and saves Sabrina. Sabrina takes Jimmy to Hell, but nobody is impressed. Caliban officially challenges her to find the unholy regalia- the three most powerful infernal objects, starting with Herod's crown.
This is a pretty typical Sabrina episode- she's way in over her head, but she either doesn't realize it or won't admit it. I'm never quite sure, but it seems like she genuinely doesn't know. I also don't remember if it's this episode or the next, but Harvey is suddenly feeling under a lot of pressure to have sex with Roz. But it never shows Roz being pushy about it, so idk wtf is going on in Harvey's head (besides convincing himself he's over Sabrina).
Chapter 23: Heavy is the Crown
For this one, Sabrina enlists Ambrose to help her find the crown because Ambrose is the most well read warlock ever due to his permanent house arrest. It's in Riverdale. They use a special compass to find it in a maple tree that the Blossom's use for syrup. If you've seen Riverdale, this probably has more significance and is less surprising. They steal the crown (somehow without realizing zombie King Herod is still in the tree). Sabrina wants to destroy it, but Ambrose wants to tap into its power to help the coven. Unsurprisingly, this does not work out well for them initially because Herod follows the crown and would very much like it back. Zelda is failing at getting respect from the students at the academy, and there's weird Lucifer beetles crawling in ears and controlling people. In other news, a carnival came to town! Obviously this has something to do with the larger plot because otherwise it would be a side note. Harvey, Roz, Sabrina, Nick, and Theo are all going together. Theo wants to invite the new guy, Robin (Jonathan Whitesell), because Theo is crushing hard. Robin is nerdy cute, I guess. I did think it was cliche to give the queer guy green streaks in his hair though. Harvey says tells Theo to invite him as part of the group, which Theo does, and Robin agrees. They all go to the carnival: Roz, Sabrina, and Theo ignorantly happy, Harvey struggling with his masculinity, Nick struggling with his ordeal, and Robin just happy to be there. Roz "sees" the carnival ringmaster as a satyr (or a faun depending on your preference for Greek or Roman deities, but they do tend to prefer Greek in this show), but she decides she was imagining things. Mrs. Wardwell talks to the fortune teller Circe (Lucie Guest) to try to find out what happened to her during the three months that Lilith was using her "skin suit." She doesn't get any concrete answers because that's not how fortune tellers work, Mary. Harvey stumbles across a snake charmer dancer woman in a tent full of pervy dudes and is almost entranced. Hilda goes to the carnival with her bf Dr. C, who proposes. Idk why she needed to throw her cotton candy on the ground during that, but I'm also on a sugar detox, so... Prudence and Ambrose are cleaning up Blackwood's mess by putting a living doll spell on Judas and Judith to hide them and putting his weird time warping monster fish egg thing in a fish tank. Yeah. No Nessie, but a weird egg. It's fine, I'm not bitter. Back at the carnival, Sabrina and Nick get attacked by Herod (who stole his crown back from Ambrose but knows it was Sabrina stealing it initially). Ambrose saves them, but Caliban pops in, steals the crown, and wins the first round of the challenge. At the very end, we find out why the carnies are important: they're pagans who worship the old gods and trying to resurrect The Green Man to rid the world of flesh since the Satanic witches have all but lost their powers. There is more than one voodoo practitioner, idk why they're not considered more of a threat because they're much more independently magical. They need a virgin to complete the rebirth, and that's why Robin (dun dun dun) was hanging out at the high school. Our potential virgins are Theo, Harvey, and Mrs. Wardwell.
I chose not to believe that Robin was actually bad because I want Theo to be happy. I chose to believe that even if he was using Theo, Robin was just trying to take his virginity to prevent him from being the sacrifice. Also, Sabrina is basically trying to force Nick to be normal even though she compared his symptoms to PTSD. Girl stop. He needs a sec.
Chapter 24: The Hare Moon
Zelda and Hilda have decided that the coven needs to celebrate the hare moon for the coming of spring to bolster good will. Sabrina isn't enthused (maybe because it requires her singing a song of summer into the forest to release a rabbit). Lilith tells Sabrina that they need celestial power to restore their strength, so she goes to Dorian, who has an angel trapped in one of his paintings (as all art collectors do). Sabrina drains some blood from the angel for her coven, but leaves in the process because she hears some screaming. Then she stumbles upon Nick and some sex demons doing BDSM. She's less than thrilled, especially since Nick low-key blames her for it. And Dorian has drank 90% of the angel blood, but they can't take anymore with killing him. So Hilda suggests using the little blood to make an oil mixture and take a moon bath under the hare moon (rub oils all over your skin and lie outside under the full moon) to absorb the celestial energy from the moon. During the daytime ceremony, they meet the pagans. Things don't go well. Zelda makes a bunch of petty insults, Hilda pisses off Circe, and Nick kills me the snake that bit Dorcas (Abigail Cowen). Circe puts a curse on Hilda to become a spider, and
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deathgod-ben · 4 years ago
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hey this is tua-hottakes i dont wanna start any dicourse actually but i want you to know what i almost replied to your post so here it is: OHMYGOD i thought the original post was a shitpost, so i made a joke right back? it wasnt that deep either, but you didn't need to be so aggressive about it.
Ah yes saying diego is himbo is bad... when he gets called one for doing dumb shit with luther, another himbo? Also I literally see a post shitting on klaus or vanya once a week. And? I don't know why it matters? it shouldnt, they are fictional characters, the reasons why people like or dislike them are usually very difficult to pinpoint and actually irrelevant.
I am not trying to minimise the racism, I genuinely don't see it, and i'm sorry, but you shouldn't expect me to and imma tell you why in this lil rant below, which is completely unrelated to tua, again, sorry:
so now we have to be black to have an opinion or make jokes? Yeano no white guilt here, my predecessors didnt colonise anything, we just out here trying to survive.
im arguing because fans of colour sometimes forget that the non-english speaking world is not as colour-sensitive as yall ok. ugh reading about tolkenism is real precious why dont you do your research about racism in the balkans and the gypsy situation here (where, btw, both diego and ben would be considered/treated as white). the rest of the world is not obligated to thread on your eggshells. i can assure you most of us speak english like natives and watch your damn shows and are a Huge chunk of your "racist" fandom but when we voice out opinions we don't talk about an African-american or Asian or Hispanic character, we talk about an American character. and yea we try to take race into consideration and we're usually careful how we talk and we listen and we keep quiet when the topic of race pops up, being supportive of all human rights and sympathetic and honestly its so damn impressed that at least your government officials are attempting to keep up appearances that racism is bad and you can talk about stereotypes cuz you actually have minorities represented in your media. I do try, trust me, I have read more about the socio-political situation in america than I have about my own fucking country, but with everything happening everywhere and with how big the world is i cannot be a damn historian, social media researcher and dimplomat on the blog where i wanna scream bullshit about non-real sexy folks. so uhh pls stop accusing us of being kentucky-fried-racist and maybe you consider that when coming to conclusions about how much of the fandom is racist. 0 shit intended to be started, honestly dont even reply i just didn't want you walking away from this with the wrong idea
1. i was not agressive, you just cant handle comeback.
2. if you dont see the racism.. why are you trying to join in a conversation about racism??? And it isnt my problem if u know more about American politics than your own country
3. im not American, the rest of your post has no meaning. Im a queer black immigrant living in Europe.
4. I was not discussing about racism in real life but fandom racism so why are you trying to change the conversation? The racism in USA, is not the same as the one in Europa, and there are different racism even in Europe. The struggles Romani people face are different from the ones I face, and I dont want to compare it because in the end the problem isnt the marginalized people but the ones oppressing us.
5. I personally dont care if a random stranger on internet dont see racism, but when you come to my post and try and argue with me, you better expect criticism.
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