#vere theory

[portsandstars]

Bad Ending Bingo!

Any bad endings you anticipate happening?

[toxintouch]

It would be so fascinating if the cult that Unnamed was raised in is a remnant of Vere's cult from when he was being worshipped as a god.

[dragoonwish]

I consider you my equal once, perhaps even a friend.

Until the day I was bound and chained, I realize then. Just how far we truly were

I vowed to get stronger, No matter the cost,

To

Devour you

[vereing]

This part of the demo with the alchemist background makes me wonder if maybe the collar is the part that specifically holds him captive, while the chest harness is unenchanted but just there to make the collar harder to get off (??)

So are we going to talk about the fact that Veres chain is gone :l

Where did it go? Did he take it off? How?

(I only noticed this because I was making a post about how his hat makes him looks like he works at McDonalds)

[kekeke32]

TOUCHSTARVED trailer theme theory??

Hi guys, hi everyone. Hope we’re doing well!

SO the full version of the trailer theme is finally out on YouTube and holy shit??? It goes so HARD!!! Give it a listen here.

After rewatching it over and over again, I noticed something so I’ll map out which lyrics appear with which character for y’all to see:

Wish I could’ve added more ss but I’m on the mobile app 🥲 Anyways, I really don’t think the dev team added the characters photos randomly ‘cause check this out:

In Ais’s part, the lyrics are about a certain weakness (ik the lyrics “my weakness” refer to a person but I chose to ignore that jskdksk) and survival. This may be a reach BUT doesn’t this reminds you of Ais’s official character description? Specifically of this part: “Ais seems capable of curing you...but a sick sense of dread surrounds him. He's beginning to suspect that he may not be as in control of his powers as he thought. Can you save each other, or will he drag you down to the abyss with him?" This so-called “weakness” could be his very own powers and he’ll need the player to help him, to “survive”.

Now, about Vere’s part, I don’t have much to say tbh other than the fact that the lyrics “Cause everytime we touch” appear for the first time in his part and I guess you could say it’s related to his frequenting at the brothel? (iykwim 😏) Oh! And you could also see him being touched by a lot of different hands in the trailer. Besides that, his part ends with the lyrics “need you by my side” sung softly by the singer hmm…

Kuras’s part on the other hand, starts strongly (I suck balls at describing music so pls listen 4 urselves, you’ll know what I mean😭) and at 1:59 mins the lyrics are “Cause everytime we touch” then his face darkens a little and it stars an instrumental interlude. I don’t know what that really means but he’s sus

Mhin’s part is sung very softly as well and the lyrics “We’ve been through them all. You make me rise when I fall” are so sweet more so because I think in their route they’ll open up more to the player after going together through incomprehensible horrors and we’ll learn how to support each other <33

Finally, Leander’s part!! Now, LISTEN. His part is the reason why I even made this post in the first place lmao This mf is way too sus but first of all, the building synth progression at 2:58???? oh my god I got CHILLS. literal chills. *ahem* Moving on, his part, starts strongly the same as Kuras’s part did. Their parts are the only ones sung like that… Weird, huh? Anyway, after the lyrics “I can’t let you go. Want you in my life” at 3:49, the song gets SUPER intense and starts sounding very desperate ig?? (kudos to Dan! love his voice frfr) and Leander’s part ends with “Need you by my side”. Okayy y'all… Y'ALL. THIS IS CRAZY. In his part we have both the lyrics "I can't let you go. Want you in my life" AND "I want this to last. Need you by my side". AHHHH Leander you obsessed little bitch (affectionate)

In conclusion, there’s no fucking way the red spring team didn’t assign the certain parts of the lyrics very and I mean VERY purposefully to each LI. The parts suit them specifically well so I highly doubt it’s random but it could also just be me reading too much into this

Whatever!!! Good morning/Good night to this fandom only ^_^

[someiicecube]

I had this post sitting in my drafts for a while and I was suddenly reminded of it haha. 

Anyway, we all know this line from the main character synopsis, right? 

Only humans?

Is this purposeful on the writer's part to specifically mention the curse can only affect humans? Or are humans the only creatures mentioned because that's all the main character has had the chance to... curse with their touch?

Can the curse affect monsters?

Currently, we can't know one way or the other. 

Even if we did touch Leander, bare hand and all, it's Leander. The main character is under the impression that, because he's such a strong and powerful mage recommended to us by the mysterious doctor Kuras himself, it's just something he can do apparently—  although, we as the players know that's not all there is to it... just what is it? Is it part of his supposed monsterous-ness? Does he really know a spell that can protect against our curse? What's Leander's Jungle Juice really made out of? We can't tell yet...

Chosing Leander in this context is such a strategical plot point because he cannot answer our initial question. Is Leander not affected because he cast his little protection spell? Or is Leander not affected because he is/has become a monster?

However, we still can assume that the main character doesn't have full knowledge on what they are capable of with their curse— ya' know, probably being mostly surrounded by humans and such. So, the idea of touching even a monster is probably not a theory anyone wants to test (unless you're a mage, then please do it on some random monster and not the LIs for funzies... unless you want to).

Could this be a seed the writers are planting? Maybe, maybe not. But leaving the question unaswered (by Leander), again, makes the player and main character cautious by nature.

But what if they did slip up?

What if they slipped up and it happened on accident? 

Your bare fist colliding into Ais' chest, skin-on-skin but still a solid blow. Your hand desperately reaching out for Kuras' own, just wanting to feel his warmth once more only for a moment. Your palm sweeping against Vere's shoulder, pushing him away, your skin brushing along the thin translucent fabric. Or your fingers digging into Mhin's wrist as their dagger hovers right above you, their pulse hard against your uncovered touch.

It's startling. It's something you didn't mean to do. Fear grips you immediately; dread rises as your stomach falls. You are as quick to let go of them as your eyes are to look them in the eye and...

Nothing.

While, it wouldn't come as a shock to either Vere or Ais. Kuras, who the main character wouldn't know is an angel at this point, and Mhin are another eyebrow raiser for sure. It didn't affect them, when you know it should. If it doesn't affect them... that would only make the MC raise many more questions about Leander in turn. Ah, what a dramatic way to reveal the fact that the person you fancy is a monster.

Other notes and thoughts:

While, yes, an interesting idea to think about. I'm torn between wanting the monsters to be immune and 'fuck it, this curse affects everyone, even your pet rock ain't safe'. I can't help but feel this idea also lowers the stakes of the MC's curse... if done wrong.

Let's say this, the curse doesn't have an effect on monsters, right? But for each monsterous LI there will be a catch. Say, Vere, for example; a monster who lusts for power beyond him... having a human like yourself with such a deadly curse, well, who's to say it wouldn't give him a few ideas on how to use you it. What? You're still planning on finding a cure? Oh no, but you have him now, don't you? Why need a cure when you have him, your curse, and your soon-to-be mindless worshippers at your feet?

(Won't lie writing some of Vere's points made me think of Leander, but that's manipulation for you)

Or think Kuras, a doctor, an angel who passed through the shroud to watch over humanity. How would Kuras feel if the person he's grown so close to decides their curse isn't worth getting rid of now that you have him— can't you see the danger in yourself anymore?

Or try with, like some previous theories once said for us touching Leander: it doesn't affect him now... but eventually he will devolve into madness like the rest of everyone. But don't just apply that to Leander, now think of everyone else. Imagine finally finding someone you can touch without consequences. It's something that gets your blood rushing and heart pounting with a feeling your haven't felt in a while! However... the more and more you do so, you've noticed they've changed. They're more irritated, they've been having more headaches than normal, and their once beautiful smile twists into something dreadfully familiar. Congratulations, you've made your beloved mad with love! Here's the bad ending! Yipee!

Really, in the end it's all a balancing act, the stake were there and you don't want to take them away before the climax. If you do, place something else in its steed— something to raise them even further than what was initially thought possible.

[vermilionsun]

Before I explain, there are a few issues to keep in mind:

The first Fogfall happened a century ago (“Is Eridia the last city?- The previous largest city, Lovent, was the epicenter of the first Fogfall. In the century since [...] )

We don’t know exactly the LI’s true natures or origins (yet), so monster, human, cursed, whatever their natural state is or however many beings are in one body, the oldest one has the advantage in this...well, 'age line' (?).

Kuras

In his character lore drop, “The Divine Teacher”, it is mentioned his figure has been present since “the earliest civilisations”. But if he’s a Monster, how did he escape the Shroud before the rest of the Monsters?

Vere

We know he’s had over a hundred celebrations (Birthday post ‘23) but also that the Senobium “bound a dangerous beast with a magic collar centuries ago” and the reports of the beasts’ first appearance were “ancient”—for something to be considered ancient, is must be “older than 2,000 to 5,000 years.” Make it make sense. It doesn’t, unless I’m taking the exact words too seriously. (Or he, like the MC, is cursed, and the beast inside him is seperate from Vere, like Ais and Ocudeus)

Ais

Either Ocudeus or him were alive and active before and during the first Fogfall (“As Monsters continued to abandon the Shroud” - character lore drop “Death Knell”).

I believe that this was Ocudeus, but we don’t know when it made the deal with Ais, so I’m putting both of them here.

Mhin

I want you to keep an open mind with this. If Lovent was destroyed during the first Fogfall and Mhin was there, it makes them at least a hundred years old.

Leander

He “came of age and packed his bags to chase his dreams twelve years ago”. The only straightforward thing about this man is his age.

[portsandstars]

Not saying it’s a GIVEN, but Vere also clearly controls shadows/his shadow form in the “surrender” demo end.

Archivist Hypothesis: Vere the Shadowfox

I already talked about this theory in Vere's loresheet, but I'm posting it here as well!

Having re-reviewed [half] the demo, I think that Vere may be umbrakinetic, which Google assures me is the fancy word for being able to control shadows.

In the demo, MC says that Monsters are "inhuman beings with unnatural powers", so being a Monster isn't just a cosmetics thing. While one of Vere's powers is surely having the fluffiest ears and tail in a 100-mile radius, that's not all.

When we first meet Vere—or right before, rather—the MC encounters an oppressive shadowbeast. Though we never see it head on, it's described as “[running] down the street in rivulets” and “[spreading] like ink into blotted shapes.” These shadows form into a threatening being with claws and a muzzle filled with sharp teeth. But, when we turn, there's no giant black monster about to eat them, just this asshole.

And he's got our key, despite being more than an arm's length away. How'd he get a hold of it? Because his shadowfox was literally right up on us two seconds ago—plenty of opportunity to slip a key out of a pocket, especially if you're a shadow and not a physical person.

Not only that, but when Vere smells Kuras on you, “the shadows around him seethe and boil,” like his powers are responding to his decidedly negative emotions about the angel doctor.

This mini-theory seems like an easy shot, so I hope I'm not saying something everyone else already knows 😅 It only just occurred to me on this play-through, since I'm scouring the demo for info for the loresheets and not just drooling over Ais tiddies.

Let me know if you came to the same conclusion, or any other thoughts you have!

[cacaobean760]

So I have no idea what this means for Vere and how he views the other love interest but idk if this has been pointed out yet but the only difference I have noticed is the actual paper having different things in the blank spaces. As far as I can tell, Kuras has nothing in the blank spaces, Mhin has other doodles like Vere either didn’t know what pose to draw Mhin in or he just wanted to draw more Mhin doodles. And as for Leander it looks Vere wrote some things and then erases/crossed off said writing, or Vere just made random marks on the paper because he wanted to “dirty” the paper more??? Again, idk what this means but let me know yalls theories!

[loventian]

Touchstarved character name meanings!

Lemme preface this by saying I’m not a name meanings expert I just love crawling through google pages and over analyzing things ALSO to make sure the results weren’t influenced by fandom everything here is from pre-2020! With that let’s get into things!

Mhin:

Mhin is a little bit tricky, as I can’t find anything for their name spelled as it is. Min, however, has several different sources and meanings.

In Chinese, Min (敏) meanings “quick, clever, sharp” Which seems rather fitting for our neighborhood soulless hunter. An alternative script for Min (民) translates to “people, citizens” which could have some interesting implications, as Mhin is implied to have strong connections to the city of Lovent.

In Burmese Min means “king, ruler” which, connected with the second Chinese translation, could perhaps be some foreshadowing? We don’t know how Mhin is connected to Lovent, but the city must have had a ruling class, perhaps Mhin held a position of power? It could also be why they survived, and which a powerful curse nonetheless

Finally, in Irish Min is said to mean “smooth, fine, small”, though I can’t find as many sources on this one. I include it because people have pointed out Mhin’s cloak pins are triquetra, which are Celtic symbols.

Kuras:

Please know I adore Kuras when I say this, but he really got the short end of the naming stick it seems. The most promising thing I can find is the usage as a Hindi surname, which doesn’t seem to have a meaning listed. If you remove the S and go with Kura, it can mean “river” in Turkish or possibly “fierceness, tiger” in Japanese.

Now here’s the silly translations! In Arabic, Kuras (كراس) seems to translate to brochure. In polish, it translates to chicken.

I truly doubt the devs thought brochure/chicken were good labels for the dear doctor, so I’m favoring the Turkish translation. Mostly because Eridia is a city divided by a river; could there be something deeper hidden in there? Maybe!

Ais:

So clearly Ais has a lot of Japanese influence, with his design being inspired by Oni, so I looked for those possible translations first. Ai (愛) translates to love in Japanese, and is typically used as a broader term to refer to emotions tied to like compassion, empathy, or platonic forms of love (as opposed to 恋/koi which refers to romantic love).

I’m gonna focus on this translation for a bit. Someone on a translation forum phrased it in a way I really love: “Ai” is something you do or give. Ais is our introduction to the Seaspring, and to groupminds in general. While the concept of a hivemind is usually used in horror as a way of taking away agency, the Seaspring is framed as a refuge for people to turn to. Could Ais’ name be an allusion to a goal he keeps hidden? Is the Seaspring a manifestation of a desire to give love despite the violent world? Or am I just reading into this too deep?

Vere:

Vere actually has a straight up name meaning! Most of the sources I found say that Vere is a French/Gaulish name meaning “Alder”, and it usually pops up in the surname “De Vere”. Alders are a kind of bitch tree, and I have no idea how that tie into Vere as a character.

But if we take “Vere” as a word rather then a name, then Latin translates it as meaning “truly, really, actually, rightly”. Vere’s introduction to us is as someone to not trust, a cunning fox waiting for the next meal, stealing our darn room key and lying about it! So I find it really interesting that his name could be a word for truth. Perhaps before his chains Vere was someone a lot more truthful ?

Leander:

Big shout out to Leander for having a plain ass easy to translate name. I’ll give you googles exact definition here: "lion of a man", from leon, "lion", and andros, "man".

That was easy, so now let’s pick it apart!

Traditionally, lions are symbols of nobility, courage, strength, and protection. Leander has a reputation for being That Guy; he’s a leader, a protector of the masses, etc etc. for all intents and purposes, Leander really is a lion of a man!

…On the surface at least. Because under all the symbolism, lions are still predators, no matter how noble.

[portsandstars]

I'm ngl I'm confused about how vere is leashed by the Senobium but has enough freedom to go off and kill u in an alleyway.... Like... The Senobium says "yea ur ass is ours from 9-5!!.. but then u can do whatever IDGAF"

[portsandstars]

So interesting! I think that it's a really complicated situation.

- I think Vere curses the day that he got caught. I'm sure he's been over it, again and again, and regretted his mistake (whatever it may have been) tenfold.

- I think part of him misses the person that he was before he was imprisoned. Likely stronger, more ravenous, more capricious, more arrogant.

- in my mind he's become more wily as a means to survival. With his viciousness (somewhat) chained, he can't use physical force against the Senobium. Though, undoubtably he's tried in the past. I think he's become more and more cunning as his mind is his primary weapon remaining that he can use to attempt to free himself. Or, at minimum, make the Senobium suffer when he can.

About Vere…

He fascinates me, specifically what we know in his profile.

His dislikes is rules and puzzles but his fatal flaw is being power hungry no matter what.

It makes me wonder if he's as smart as he lets on.

Hear me out.

Now don't get me wrong, Vere is very good with people. It's how he toys with them, gets information to use for himself, etc. etc.

he plays games with people. This can make him cocky and flippant when he's serious but no one takes him seriously.

but with this in mind... I kind of wonder if Kuras tried 'testing' Vere back in the day, which resulted in his imprisonment. Had Vere not gone for whatever was placed out for him, or thought better than to believe he was the hotshot, he might've been free still.

Alternatively, if not a test from Kuras.... What if something happened that regardless whether Vere is freed he might not be at full power anymore from the Senobium.

His utter disregard for rules and, therefore, safety. Cost Vere his freedom and it's not impossible if his power isn't what it used to be.

The highs of the reward overpowered the risk in his eyes.

[toeridiaorbust]

I Just Realized the Paper in the Radial Charts Are Visually Unique Too

All images belong to Red Spring Studio.

Mhin:

Theirs looks the 'cleanest', relatively speaking. Possible scribbled notes in the margins, there?

✒️✒️✒️✒️✒️

[More under the cut]

Vere:

There's, uh, a lot of blood. Fits the 5 rank of his 'Wanton Violence', doesn't it?

✒️✒️✒️✒️✒️

Kuras:

I know we haven't seen Kuras eat/drink anything in both the demo and other official art by RSS, but I know the stain of an overfilled coffee mug on a paper when I see one! [It's even referenced in the LI quiz the devs put out ages ago, the French press coffee!]

✒️✒️✒️✒️✒️

Ais:

While everyone's blue paper note is ripped at the top and bottom, Ais's has the addition of being crinkled up and torn!

As others noted in reblogs/tag/comments on the official RSS post for Ais, the Animal Handling rank is in allusion to his control of all the Soulless at the Seaspring.

However, there's the tear that cuts through it too. Ocudeus is the something Ais cannot control. [This is also noted by others in the fandom!]

[This also completely terrifies be because oh no! Ais is losing himself!]

The crumbled paper could be similar to how a student carelessly jams their homework/notes/etc. into their backpack and turns it in that way to the teacher. Ais is trying to keep Ocudeus in check/suppress it/them/him(?), but it isn't working anymore.

All in all, I cannot wait to see what the devs have in store for Leander's.

[eggroll-sama]

People are talking about how Leander will play a huge role in Ais route and possibly get super possessive and competitive with Ais over MC, but are we going to ignore the threat that is Vere?? He was getting a bit hmmm possessiveness over Ais in the 1-1 convo with MC: “you don’t know him. Not like I do.” And not to mention he showed signs of being romantically interested as well: (I thought you didn’t like most people), “Ais isn’t most people. He’s better.” Ok so Vere clearly feels a deep connection with Ais, and as far as we’re concerned Ais is the ONLY person that makes him feel this way in forever. If MC is suddenly brought into the picture in Ais route, how would Vere exactly feel? Replaced? Betrayed? Furious?

Now don’t get me wrong I’m all for a delicious love triangle any day I love the drama and angst that it brings, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Vere kills you in Ais’ route for getting too close, or at least there would be heavy implications that he hates seeing you getting too close with Ais because he thought he was the only that can get personal with Ais. I could see it playing out like Felix and Rime’s route in Last Legacy, but possibly less possessiveness from Vere; technically it was a friends with benefit’s relationship with accidental attachment. Actually scratch that. This is a horror gothic game, so it can take a dark-ass turn with Vere and Ais relationship. Vere over-stepping his boundaries and trying to kill you, then Ais going berserk and confronting Vere >:(. I just know that Vere isn’t going to back down without a fight cuz the moment I saw him blushing I knew. He might legitimately love Ais and I can’t blame him for wanting to kill us for him.

[westbifire]

Ok so was doing some digging in all the LIs lore sheets and found a lot of stuff (ill dig deeper into it later) but the most interesting thing that clicked is that Veres lore has no mention of him as a monster from the Shroud, which most of the other Lis believe (idk if Kuras knows dont remember what he said about Vere). Instead the Senobiums documents describing him as a diety and demon. He's a being with power from the human realm.

Which might be what Vere means when he says his whole 'not quite human or monster line'. If this is what he means then ya, the Senobium is going to try to capture Mc to study how they got powers as a being not from the monster realm, (probably) how they can harness and transfer that power to humans. Which in the Senobiums eyes could protect humans from monster attacks.

Don't know if this is a a big brain moment or a big brain fart (probably brain fart)... but just putting it out there.

[toxintouch]

I am headcanoning Mhin's monster transformation as being related to their emotions (as in: transformation can be triggered by very strong emotions) SO HARD lately.

It would add an extra layer to Vere constantly trying to piss them off that just ⋆˗ˋˏ Makes Sense ˎˊ˗⋆ to me.

Vere is intrigued by the MC, describing them as "not quite human, not quite monster".

Is it safe to assume that Vere felt similarly intrigued by Mhin? That he picked up on that, smelled it on Mhin when they first met, only to have Mhin stab him on sight? And now Vere is constantly pushing at their raw nerves to try and get a Monstrous reaction out of Mhin... It would add an extra layer to their dynamic that I love to consider.

Alternate theory: The transformation is more werewolf-esque and it's related to something that can be astronomically observed. & that's how Mhin started up their stargazing hobby?? But it's kinda cuter if they just enjoy that for it's own sake, amiright?

P.S. if ur wondering how Vere knows about the emotions trigger he knows bc he can Do That Thing