#venus genetrix

[diana-andraste]

Venus Genetrix, Joel-Peter Witkin, 1981

[gallopinggallifreyans]

Aphrodite of the Venus Genetrix type by Ana on Sketchfab

Y'ALL CHECK IT OUT HERE SHE ISSSSSSSS

[astroyongie]

𓆉⋆｡˚⋆❀ Goddess Worship: An Introduction of Venus 🐚🫧𓇼 ˖°

Note: Day 21 of our October calendar! Today we have an introduction of deities I work with/worship. This post is to provide some information about the deities but also how I work with them personally. Everyone has their own methods with the Gods, and you should do whatever feels right with you while also respecting the bases of the religions.

─── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ───── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ───── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆ ───── ⋆⋅☆⋅⋆

Historical Background:

Venus is the Roman goddess of love, beauty, desire, and fertility, whose origins lie in the Greek goddess Aphrodite (they are basically the same deity but one can have a preference for one or another when it comes in terms of naming. I personally like Venus denomeation better than Aphrodite, yet Aphrodite's cult is older and thus more accurate when it comes to history). She played a major role in Roman culture, not just as a goddess of romantic love but also as a symbol of the prosperity and power of the Roman state. Julius Caesar claimed to be a descedent from Venus through her son Aeneas, who was a Trojan hero and a central figure in Roman myth. You can find a vast historical symbols and lore with Venus. Out of the three goddess that I work with (Venus, Freyja and Hekate) she is the most well represented through art, literature, historical history and mythology.

Attributes and Symbols:

Doves and Sparrows: they are birds sacred to Venus, representing love and desire but also innocence and purity. These birds often accompany her in art as a part of her symbolism. Shells and Pearls: Venus is famously depicted emerging from the sea on a shell, symbolizing her birth from sea foam. Anything directly linked with the sea can be symbolic in her name Roses and Myrtle: Both flowers are sacred to Venus, representing love, beauty, and fertility. Golden Apples: Associated with the goddess, these were the prize in the famous myth of the Judgment of Paris, where Venus was deemed the fairest of all. Other red fruits can also be associated with her, anything that holds a connotation of love and desire. (The apples are also an association with Eve and the forbidden fruit)

Worship and Rituals:

Veneralia: A festival held in honor of Venus Verticordia (Venus the Changer of Hearts) on April 1st. This festival was primarily concerned with cleansing rituals, bathing in myrtle-laden water, and offering prayers for purity in love and relationships. Venus Genetrix: A title meaning "Mother Venus," this aspect emphasized Venus’s role as a progenitor of the Roman people through Aeneas. Julius Caesar established a temple in her honor as Venus Genetrix, showing her importance in Roman political and public life. Gardens and Shrines: Venus had many shrines and temples, particularly in Rome. Shrines to Venus often included lush gardens, which were a symbol of her fertility and life-giving powers. This is also an idea to set al whole altar/shrine for her, that doesn't need to be inside of home and can be creative with your outside space. Erotic and Fertility Rites: Venus was invoked in matters of love, sex, and fertility. Offerings of flowers, perfume, and wine were common, and her blessings were sought by women who wished to conceive. Pretty much like Freyja, people would have sexual intercourse in her honor State Worship: Venus was integral to the Roman state religion. Augustus, following Caesar’s example, elevated her status, linking her to the success of the empire and military victories. Any "birth" was dedicated to her

-> When worshipping Venus, you can make a pretty altar while respecting her symbolisms. Venus can help with love, but remember she helps with self love first as well. Do not invoke her only to have X falling in love with you. her cult needs to be taken seriously. Offerings need to be maid every friday and during her ritual days. Never use her power to become "the prettiest of them all", as Venus doesn't take well humans who try to use her name for pettiness. Be grateful for her, shower her in love and admiration and she will bless you in return

-> Ideas for offerings: Wine, honey, shells, feathers, mirrors, roses, myrtle, perals, jewlery, perfume, incense, scented candles, hairbrushes or makeup, apples, red fruits, sea water or sand, anything symbolic with the sea and love.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

"Venus in Rome: A Translation of Book II of Ovid's Fasti" by Ovid, Translated by Betty Rose Nagle

"Venus Genetrix: Political Imagery and Female Personifications in the Late Republic" by Paul Zanker

Carney, J. (2013). Venus in Augustan Rome (Doctoral dissertation, Florida Atlantic University).

Flory, M. B. (1988). Pearls for Venus. Historia: Zeitschrift für Alte Geschichte, (H. 4), 498-504.

[lunarforager]

Who is Ares?

Welcome to another "Introduction to the Hellenic Gods" post! The next deity I'm going to be covering is Ares, as he's next alphabetically but also a deity that a lot of folks on here seem to work with.

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Ares is the name given to the ancient Greek god of war and courage.

While both Ares and Athena are considered "war gods" they rule over different aspects of war, with Ares being the god of the more brutal and violent aspects of war while Athena is the goddess of the strategy and battle tactics of war.

Ares' Roman equivalent is Mars.

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There is no any birth myth attributed to Ares. All that is agreed upon is that his mother is the goddess Hera and his father is usually the god Zeus. The lack of records is most likely due to the fact that the Athenians were not fond of Ares and most surviving literture we have is Athenian in origin.

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Unlike many other Hellenic gods, Ares didn't have different epithets that were worshipped.

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Fun Fact! -> Ares and Aphrodite Areia were worshipped in tandem in Sparta as a duo, similar to how Mars Ultor (The Great Mars) and Venus Genetrix (Venus the Creator) were worshipped as a duo by the Romans. Ares and Aphrodite are frequently connected to one another, through children, affairs, and other stories.

---

Finally, I wanted to share my favourite stories and art pieces that mention or depict Ares.

The Iliad by Homer -> Ares was frequently talked about in writings of the Trojan War, often being painted in a negative light. In Book 5 of the Iliad, his own mother, Hera, even describes him as a "manic" with "no sense of justice".

Fabulae by Gaius Julius Hyginus -> Ares is known to be the father of Otrera, the first Queen of the Amazons, a group of female warriors that appeared in many epic poems including the Iliad.

Statue of Ares found in Hadrian's Villa -> This statue depicts either Ares or Hermes and was found in the home of the Roman emperor Hadrian.

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Thank you all for taking the time to read this post! As I've said probably a million times already, I absolutely love sharing my knowledge of the Greeks and Romans with others and also love talking about out Hellenic deities. Feel free to reach out about which gods/goddesses you want to see next or if you simply just want to chat! I love making new friends :3

Valete, friends!

[davidluongart]

A current illustration that I had for an early celebration of Halloween: Ares dressed up as the famed Roman general, Marcus Antonius, while Aphrodite dressed up as Queen Cleopatra VII Thea Philopathor of Egypt…🎃🍬🍭

I was interested and inspired by the idea that mortals who often dressed as divinities back in ancient times to achieve power, wealth, opulence, and influence, while in this modern-day, divinities often participated in down-to-earth activities, have fun disguising and dressing up as historical mortals for holiday celebrations!!!

Aphrodite’s version of the Egyptian queen was mostly based on the depiction of historically accurate Cleopatra VII made by Joan Francesco Oliveras (@/jfoliveras on Twitter, and Instagram ), as well as statues and statuettes of Isis-Aphrodite that were carved from the Ptolemaic era till the late Roman period of Egypt, albeit taken with modern creative liberties. Isis, during this time, was a very weird figure to say the least, since while still keeping her Egyptian identity and attributes, she was further fused, syncretized, and absorbed the qualities of foreign Greek goddesses like Aphrodite, Demeter, Persephone, Tyche, etc.

With Aphrodite is the fertility goddess of war, love, lust, beauty, passion, and procreation, and later is associated with prosperity, victory, and the ancestral mother of Rome through syncretism with Venus Genetrix; while Isis is the goddess of magic, life, and wisdom, an epitome of eternal maternal devotion, protectress of all living things, from pharaohs to the vulnerable and all aspects of the kingdom, the iconography was adopted by many Ptolemaic queens, particularly Arisnoe II Philadelphos, Berenice II Euergetis and Cleopatra VII.

Ares’ version of Marcus Antonius was based on the historical statue of the Roman politician himself, with his embellishing muscle cuirass based on the Roman Republican statues of Julius Caesar, Augustus (Octavian) of Prima Porta, and Mars Ultor in the Forum of Nevra. With various mistresses (including famous courtesan Cythersis of that time) and marriages to Fadia, Antonia, Fulvia, Octavia the Younger, and Cleopatra VII, their descendants later went to become famous Roman statesmen, or went on to rule the Roman Empire, as well as various clientele kingdoms of modern-day Cimmerian Bosporus, Middle East, North Africa as well. Historically, Marcus Antonius, during his trip to Egypt to visit Cleopatra VII, has always considered himself to be an embodiment of Zeus-Serapis-Dionysus, consort of Isis Aphrodite, but I just think the icon of armed muscular Ares/Mars always suited him more, and look the best.

[goobersforlife]

BRACKETS ARE UP!

AND HERE THEY ARE!

This is side A brackets

Participants-

(camp hamato) CH! Leo & Vincenzo - belonging to @p0t3nt1al

Rose Jones- belonging to @omgselinabeckendorf

Hamato Giovanni- belonging to @enthblaze

(universal mayhem) UM!Foxy, Venus, Peter, April- belonging to @trixanimations

UWG!Donnie and IitM!Leo- belonging to @witchybluedeity

orange- belonging to @itsnotillegalyet07

Misa- belonging to @littlemissartemisia

(Lab rats sons) LRS!One- belonging to @rubberducky2pointoh

Mikey, and (chaotic time travel) CTT! F!Donnie and Dahlia-belonging to @cats-inthe-cradle

kirby- belonging to -@tomatoshapedstars

(turtles all the way down) TATWD!Murasaki & mizuiro- belonging to @pommigranite

(Green eyed mask) GEM!Casey Jr- belonging to @azucar-skull

Vassari, Donnie, paris, zink- belonging to @angelcorpse230

(Rabbits broach) RB! Aristotle and Plato Umigame- belonging to @pigeonsgrame

Toby Sage Darner -belonging to @flockofcrowsinatrenchcoat

(once more with feelings) OMWF! Jasper, and bell - belonging to @tuatara-time

Artie-belonging to @faemorningstar

Donatello & Genetrix- belonging to @tmnt-starlit-sin

Kirby Hamato- belonging to @darth-sonny

(Teenage Turtle Ninja mutants)TTNM! donnie, mikey, raph and leo- belonging to @idiot-mushroom

Yuchi, Cali, Mikey, and the QUILT! Au turtles- belonging to @cokowiii @cokoweee

(starblind) Yuchi, Leo- belonging to @dancingthesambaa

(Queen of the birds)QOTB!Leo- belonging to @just-another-wren

Robo!Rise Donnie, Raph, Leo, and Mikey- belonging to @zinovi768

Leonette- belonging to @leonette-soup

Timothy- belonging to @pinetreevillain

Sunflower- belonging to @agentturtlecupcake

These are side A participants, I will reblong with side B’s participants soon

Good luck, and have fun!

(also lmk if I got someone's username wrong, or anything like that, so that I made tag the right person :3)

and its smaller twin

BRACKETS SIDE B

Goober comp brackets! Side b | Bracket HQ

BRACKET HQ

side b of the baskets

Participants-

TMNA! rafa, doni, miguel and leo- belonging to @matutito

(giant mutant toddler turtles) GMTT! Raph, Mikey,Leo, Donnie- belonging to @bambiraptorx

(open your shell to find your wings) OYSTFYW!Donnie, and snapsonnie! -belonging to @onejellyfishplease

Kraang Subprime- belonging to @optimalminds

HorrorAU! Donnie, Raph, Mikey, leo- belonging to @hyperfixated-homo

(not hero material)NHM!Raph, mikey, donnie, leo- belonging to @peanutrat20

Iridiana- belonging to @chipistotallysane

(raised by kraang)RBK! April, and (raised by foot) RBF Casey- belonging to @apollothesunrat

Venus, Leo, Raph, and Donnie- belonging to @fxliciq-a

Pondside! Raph, Donnie, Leo, Mikey-belonging to @purple-the-turtle

Milkshake and Waffles- belonging to @sleepis4theweak

That concludes side b’s particapents

Wishing you guys luck, and can't wait to see what happens

Also side note, if you do anything to break the rules, you will be eliminated from the competition, please be respectful. And enjoy

[thoodleoo]

love how everything in the aeneid is the most fucked up version of itself it could possibly be. pius aeneas is devoted to the point of self-destruction. venus as genetrix loves her son so much that she's willing to send a fake version of his son to drug a woman into falling in love with him. hector in his role as protector of troy only appears in the bloody and raw state of a mutilated corpse. trees bleed and ships turn into nymphs. this poem is a nightmare

[romegreeceart]

Roman denarius depicting Empress Sabina and Venus Genetrix

128-137 CE

silver

Source, National Museum of Finland, Numismatic Collection, FINNA

Creator: Ilari Järvinen, Helsinki

Copyright Notice: Public Domain; CC BY 4.0, Suomen kansallismuseo/FINNA

[ashoss]

Child of Venus (or alternatively a legacy) Tim Drake. 

First really quickly going to run down some very basic history quickly. 

Roman Venus comes from the Greek Aphrodite, who comes from the Western Semitic goddess Astarte, who is known by the ancient Mesopotamian as Ishtar and earlier Ianna. 

This is an extreme overview of thousands of years of history, but it conveys my point. I want to explore all of these aspects quickly before I get into my thoughts on how this connects. (Also, like an extreme basic rundown of things that people might not know)

Ianna - is the goddess of love and war (along with several other fields) but is also heavily associated with divine law and political power. An interesting fact is that she was actually a three-form goddess. She went from a fairly localised deity to one of the most venerated deities across Mesopomeia. When the Assyrians took over, she became the highest deity, even above their national ones. She was so popular and essential that she is alluded to in Hebrew text. She didn’t experience a proper decline until the period between the 1st century CE and the sixth century CE when Christianity became widespread. She was in more myths than any other Sumerian deity.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna 

Astarte - is the goddess of these associated combinations: war, royal power, healing, and hunting (and several others). The travels, trade, and colonisation of the people would end with her being worshipped and an accepted deity in many places, from Egypt to the Iberian peninsula. She is considered to be the equivalent of Isis in some schools of thought. Her worship would land in Cyprus, where she could have merged with a local goddess and would slowly go to mainland Greece during the late Mycenean era or the following post-Broze age collapse. In the Greek classical period, she was occasionally equated with Aphrodite through (what a great many Polythetsic cultures did) the practice of synchronising deities.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astarte

Aphrodite - is the goddess of love, beauty, and passion (along with the others everyone knows). She is one of the twelve Olympians and is one of the most widely celebrated and worshipped deities in the Hellenic world. Some of her other epithets were Eleemon (the merciful) and Enoplios (armed). She was called Tymborychos (gravedigger) along with the previously discussed Areia (the warlike) in one of her darker, more violent natures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphrodite_Areia

Venus - is the goddess of desire, prosperity, and victory. She is the ancestor of the Roman people through her son, and Julius Ceaser claimed to have been her ancestor. A couple of the epithets I want to highlight for a moment are Fleix (lucky), Genetrix (the mother), Physica Pompeiana (Pompeii’s protective goddess), Verticordia (charger of hearts), and Victrix (victorious) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus_(mythology)

Okay, now let's move on to my thoughts because this consumed my brain so much that I needed to grab my computer and write it down. 

The Thoughts! 

I’ll start with the child of Venus and then do the legacy version. 

Janet and Venus. Imagine if, on one of the important archaeology trips, Janet comes across something important to Venus. It could be anything, whether it be the start of new ruins of a worship spot or a statue. Venus appreciates Janet's respect towards the findings and wants to know more about Janet. (There is also the fact that there is an extreme difference between the number of men and women in archaeology, especially field archaeology.) The two of them share a conversation where Janet shows interest in the history of Venus, and Venus herself drops the idea that the history behind Venus and the goddesses that precede her is also enjoyable. It was a test. Janet takes this information, wanting to have another conversation with the woman and learns as much as possible. Realising that she can do more field research, she sets it up. Venus appreciates this, and he wonders whether Tim is just the kid of Janet and Venus or if he has a three-parent setup. Tim exists. 

Did Venus more or less give Janet a quest? Yes. Does Janet regret it? No. It is a very cute and tragic set-up because to be favoured by the gods is to be doomed by them. You could change up their death a bit, too. To match the tragedy vibe. 

Tim grows up learning all about his parent's work. It may not have been his favourite, but he listened and learned. Tim, sent to boarding schools and in the comics, always saw school as a necessity but something secondary—Tim, who was often separate from his parents. What if when Dick Grayson’s parents died (Monster attack?), his parents realised just how dangerous the world is, and they sent him to different boarding schools to try and keep him safe. It could also explain some of Jack’s attitude. Knowing that Tim isn’t truely his. Knowing the reality that fate could hand his son. Explain why he often sits back to parenting, knowing that his son could die in tragedy young, but also why he clings sometimes. Why will he hammer down on parenting when he realises that he can’t protect his kid and his kid could die? 

Now onto Tim. Tim loves his city so much. Tim goes back to Gotham even when his whole family moves. Tim would do anything for Gotham. That is Passion and Love. That is dedication. Tim, who becomes Robin. Who must go through a much longer trail and training before becoming Robin properly? He who trained under Shiva, who Shiva sees potential for. He who chooses an unconventional weapon. One that does not quickly kill but requires skill and ability to use. (He is fighting a war in Gotham but also loves Gotham. He hurts and helps. He causes pain, and he saves. He brings himself to ruin to help his loved ones in his beloved city and make something better for the world he lives in.) 

Tim finds himself victorious most of the time but sometimes has to rely a bit on luck. He is Robin, a protector of Gotham. Tim, by the way of being Robin, is trying to create a better Gotham. Tim is the one who created the Batfamily as we know it. He often gets people to work together that do not work together very well. 

He is also well-travelled because he is Robin and a hero in general. He has been on multiple teams and has worked alone, and despite seeing what the world (the universe) has to offer, he is still from Gotham and will belong to Gotham. 

But tragedy follows him, and he ends up in front of the graves of his loved ones more often than not. His parents, his friends, and those he feels he has failed. Even with the best of intentions, people still die and leave, and generally, being Robin creates a tragedy. 

Tim being the first Roman in the family could be very alienating and make him feel like he has to prove himself, but also the idea that he would have to work harder to prove he can fight and be here, and people still underestimate him? Venus may have been significant, but people have inherent biases. No one would assume a child of Venus would be a skilled warrior despite the history of war. However, the opposite is how people would think he only got this far because of how important of a goddess his mother is. That he didn’t have to put in the hard work because he wasn’t expected to. 

I have many more thoughts, but they generally vibe without a coherent statement. If I find words for them, I’ll send another annon. 

~~~

The Legacy idea

One of the Drakes is a child of Venus who is doing archaeology because it is part of the quest their mother sent them on. They are constantly travelling because staying in one place could have put their son in even more danger. If you still wanted Tim to be tied to Athena, you could have the other parent be a child or a legacy of Athena. 

Annon AK

(btw if you guys are interested in aphrodite lore, i really enjoyed Overly Sarcastic Production’s video on her! theyve also done one on Dionysus, Hermes and Hades/Persephone - plus a ton of other myths and classics :))

Honestly i am so in love with aphrodite/venus child tim (no pun intended). while yes athena fits him in terms of intellect and wit- tim is more so defined by his love- for his friends, family, gotham itself. (and thank you @pooky-chan for telling me abt aphrodite tim, i feel like his love is such an underused part of his character.)

i think actually going into janet and jack's relationship with venus is super interesting! i hadn't really thought about how their birth/godly parent would effect any of their family dynamic at all.

tbh everything youve said is really great! i definitely couldn't have gone in that much detail for his background. thank you for sharing :D

[gallopinggallifreyans]

IT WORKED THE RENDERING WORKED IDK WHAT I DID TO IT THIS TIME BUT IT WORKED SO BEAUTIFULLY LOOK AT MY WIFE

[harminder]

🏛️ Temple of Venus Genetrix 🇮🇹

[goblinwithartsupplies]

neonatal nurse!Percy Jackson, which is the legacy of Venus Genetrix [Venus as the goddess of home and family].

Apollo would absolutely drool over that.

I can just imagine everyone just fawning over Percy as he does his job.

He’d shut it down real quick but would probably tolerate Apollo and Venus genetrix being around because their presence soothes the babies.

[artbyanca]

Sfânta Vineri, our fairy tale grandma.

Be kind to old women kneeling by the church door because that's how Vineri(Friday) spends most of her time and you don't want to show a goddess you're an ass. When she's not praying for the forgivness of mankind Vineri is lending a helping hand to a Făt-Frumos or Cosânzeană, being the most frequent magical helper in fairy tales. There is a version of her being a mean old widow who wonders the world punishes women who work on her day by destroying their work and making a mess in their house untill you trick her to leave and you need to put all vessels upside down to prevent her from comming back. That is most likely the older version because it mentions her having temples and some still use her old name Venera-which, yes, comes from Venus cause Rome wasn't Rome without her genetrix. But that lost popularity to the saintly version which is heavealy associated with saint Paraschiva, especially in Moldova, basil being a flower sacred to both of them.

[talonabraxas]

"She was the goddess of chastity in women, despite the fact that she had many affairs with both gods and mortals. As Venus Genetrix, she was worshiped as the mother (by Anchises) of the hero Aeneas, the founder of the Roman people; as Venus Felix, the bringer of good fortune; as Venus Victrix, the bringer of victory; and as Venus Verticordia, the protector of feminine chastity. Venus is also a nature goddess, associated with the arrival of spring. She is the bringer of joy to gods and humans. Venus really had no myths of her own but was so closely identified with the Greek Aphrodite that she 'took over' Aphrodite's myths." Venus Talon Abraxas

[ancientprettythings]

Graeco-Roman Art: A Cautionary Tale

There is nothing more common than seeing a statue or painting from Ancient Rome described in these terms:

Roman, 1st-2nd C CE after a Greek original.

The Greek original is almost always lost, so the supposed connection to the assumed original is built around the following approaches:

1. The scanty literary evidence of ancient authors who saw the works themselves and described them to a greater or (generally) lesser degree. The main sources called into service for the Classical period are Pliny and Pausanias.

2. By comparing the statue/painting to others with a similar form; the assumption being that, if there were multiple versions of the same statue/image made, then there must have been an original on which they are all based – and that original is always assumed to be Greek.

3. Drawing conclusions from comparisons of style with that of known artists. Does the statue have similarities in physical composition? Similarities in how, for example, leaves are carved or the way musculature is rendered?

All of these methods are vexed with problems which I will try to break down a little with examples.

Literary Evidence

The literary evidence is never, in my opinon, clear enough to be describing one image, and one image only.

Take the Medea from the House of the Dioscuri at Pompeii.

[Photo is from Wikimedia Commons]

She is assumed to be a copy of a (lost) painting completed by Timomachus of Byzantium, bought by Julius Caesar and hung in the Temple of Venus Genetrix in Rome at enormous expense.

Nine Greek epigrams exist describing the work, and it’s on this basis that the painting is considered a copy.

I give an example from the first century CE:

‘Murderous Medea. When the hand of Timomachus was painting her,

as she was dragged in opposite directions by spite and by children,

he took on himself infinite pains to inscribe her schizophrenia,

He got both in full measure-look at the figure: in threats

tears re-surface, and temper in pity.

'Deferral will do just fine', as the sage put it. The blood of children

was right for Medea, but not for the hand of Timomachus.’

[Antiphilus of Byzantium, quoted in Classical Art: From Greece to Rome.]

Such descriptions could just as surely describe any image where Medea hesitates before carrying out her deadly intent as much as it describes this particular scene. Could it not be that a Roman artist, familiar with the mythological story, might come up with such a composition for themselves, without recourse to an original Greek version of the painting?

Comparison with Similar/Other Copies of the same Statue/Painting

While this is perhaps the most likely to lead us to imagine that there is an original which must have been in demand, and hence why there are so many copies of the one subject (the Discobolus, for example; or the Aphrodite of Cnidus), this must surely be approached very cautiously.

For one thing, this search tends to lead art historians to making arbitrary determinations about quality - they seek out those versions which are most similar, and then decide which is the best within that group in the belief that this gets them as close as possible to what they perceive to be the superior original.

This functionally depends on factors which are entirely questionable.

First, that the original was in fact the best; that no one who was imitating the style and form of the projected original couldn’t improve upon it, but would naturally produce an inferior work.

Second, that the original may in fact not be the one of which there are the most examples – a variation made to suit Roman tastes may in fact have been more in demand and hence there would be more copies left behind.

Third, who decides which is superior? On what criteria? Any judgement of this kind is naturally imbedded in the ideology in which the art historian is functioning – for example, French scholars in the 1600’s viewed quality in very different terms than an American scholar might do today.

Finally, the conclusion is almost always that the original must have been Greek. There is no reason whatsoever to believe this, except the cultural snobbery that promotes the belief that Roman sculptors didn’t have the creativity and skill to make their own original work in a Greek style. This is frankly insulting but entirely typical of the dim view many academics take towards Roman art.

Stylistic attributions

This is always a shaky basis for judging art, even in the modern day. We need only look at how many frauds are sold as the works of modern masters to know exactly how easily style can be imitated; but it is even more so when we’re talking about an extremely limited pool of known artists. The temptation will always be to shoe-horn a work alongside a known name.

A case in point is the Belvedere Apollo.

[Image is from Wikimedia Commons.]

The Belvedere Apollo was discovered before the beginning of the sixteenth century somewhere in Italy – ‘near Antium’ is generally accepted.

He evokes the perennial questions – where was he made? Was he of Italian craftsmanship or was he looted from Greece? Was he a Roman copy or a Greek original? Can we match him to any masterpieces in bronze or marble described in the literary works of Pliny or Pausanias?

But most importantly here, how firmly might he be placed in the stylistic language of a known famous sculptor?

The fact is, we know nothing about this work other than it was found in Italy probably near Antium; everything else from this point onwards is academic speculation which is in no way fact. Yet looking online, you will find these details everywhere:

Roman copy of a Greek bronze statue of Leochares 350-325 BCE.

Date: 2nd C CE/Imperial Roman.

The fact that there’s no other version of this work known from antiquity, by Leochares or anyone else, is ignored entirely; the attribution has been made on stylistic bases alone, from an assumed similarity to the Diana below.

[Image from Wikimedia Commons.]

Apollo Belvedere is as likely, as far as real evidence can prove, to be a Roman original as it is to be a copy from the Greek. It is as likely to have been crafted by an unknown artist as it is by Leochares or any other known artist.

That’s the truth – we don’t know either way.

Conclusion

This particular commonplace in art history is one of many that afflict the world of historical studies, and ancient history in particular.

Unfortunately, we are the inheritors of an academic tradition in which the phrase ‘we can’t be sure’ was absolutely precluded. We desperately need to put that uncertainty back into our thinking.

[For a much more comprehensive analysis of the problems around this topic, I highly recommend Classical Art: From Greece to Rome by Beard and Henderson.]

[mallorykeen]

child-demigod of the early incarnation of Demeter who cannot die... because half of him is already dead, and the other half of him is forever alive. The child of Demeter, the goddess of life and death.

honestly i feel like the concepts of multiple aspects of gods existing and the same and different things (e.g. pompey the great and julius caesar both worshipping venus in different aspects, as venus vetrix and venus genetrix respectively, despite being enemies at the time) is super underutilised in the series and demeter herself is a super varied goddess, i personally haven't found a source on her specifically as a goddess of life and death but there is a connection between her and the life-cycle and tbh that demigod would be so good as a concept, i'm picturing something a little like hela but it could be like constantly flaking skin because the top layer is dead or just no light behind his eyes