#vecna puppet theory

[henrysglock]

GRRGRRGGRRGGRG GOD ALL THIS!!

I wonder if this has any bearing here, but if Brenner combined himself with One/was combined with One in 1979, but the other Brenner was attacked by the demogorgon in 1983…and Vecna definitely doesn’t have schmeat…

who’s to say Vecna isn’t a Brenner, given that they flash from him to him:

1983 Brenner…Is there any chance you became a puppet?

It would explain the inexplicable transfer of One/Vecna from Dimension X to the blue UD and the weird ethernet tentacle stuff…

HIS DICK FELL OFF?? (The Vanishing Of Brenner’s Cock- What Happened To It?)

So, welcome to yet another insane post. Long story short, I’m wondering if Brenner’s schmeat got butchered.

So, this all started out when I was sitting here thinking about James’ Mothergate post (and I’ve got some posts here about mothergate & one in particular about Mothergate and The Fly that connects to this current post) and wondering why Vecna has all of these times that he appears as women & all of this mother coding, but that same feminine coding isn’t present for Henry/Edward as a child or in the lab.

And then, I was sitting here thinking about the idea of Brenner trying to combine himself with Henward in order to try and get regen healing (which you can see posts such as this post, this post, this post, and this post) and Vecna being the result of that, and then it hit me:

Is Brenner the reason why that “female” imagery is present for Vecna but not for Henward pre-Vecna?

Brenner also acts weirdly reverently towards the vagina-shaped gates :

And as James @henrysglock pointed out to me, there’s also a Lilly Brenner in Insidious:

But if Brenner DID lose his dick, HOW did he lose his dick?

Well. I hate typing this just as much as you’re going to hate reading it, but. When the Demogorgon knocks Brenner over in S1, when we look at how he was knocked back:

Versus the Demogorgon’s position when it starts chewing:

It’s too close to the camera to be chewing on Brenner’s head the way that the S4 Demogorgon does with the prisoners- but it’s RIGHT in the perfect place to be chewing on Brenner’s other head.

And when I brought this up to James, he mentioned the 3 legged Papa drawing vs the 2 legged Papa drawing- which, if Brenner had lost a “leg”, makes sense- however, the 2 legged drawing is technically from 1979 and is therefore before the 3 legged drawing, but the 3 legged drawing is shown to the audience first in the show. So either way, there’s Something here.

And speaking of legs, we also have all of the Jaws references in ST, and specifically, the Demogorgon being compared to a shark:

And what does this have to do with legs? Well, Jaws was inspired by Moby Dick- Moby Dick, where Captain Ahab’s leg was bitten off by a whale/Jaws being inspired by that with sharks.

Versus Brenner’s dick being presented as a third “leg,” in the drawing, and it possibly having been bitten off by the Demogorgon, which, again, is compared to a shark.

And I talked here about how the Brenner that we see in S1 is very very likely Richard Brenner, not Martin Brenner- Richard, whose name is literally short for “Dick.”

Brenner also seems to really overcompensate when it comes to masculinity.

For example, he’s got his cock coat scene:

And he forces the lab children to call him “Papa”:

And if we REALLY want to stretch things, there’s a young trans girl named Morgan Brenner in the 1994 tv show, “ER.” Which, interestingly enough, she shares that name with a girl in iCarly of all things, also named Morgan Brenner. And speaking of iCarly vs ST, Fred Benson in ST also shares a name with as Fred Benson from iCarly.

Plus, we also have the idea that one of the Henwards during NINA is Brenner/a Henward that got combined with one of the Brenners, which, considering all of the castration references that surround Henward/the castration vibes with Soteria that Stav pointed out…

Long story short: something weird is going on inside of Brenner’s pants and with the female imagery in ST regarding Brenner.



[morimyths]

idk how I managed to forget to post Him, but here he is in all of his (wonky) glory. I desperately need to redraw him; he’s always on my mind

don’t look at this too closely, I’m going to redo it at some point

[alcalystrasz]

Stranger Things 5 spoilers:

We're discussing theories.

So we knew that the first episode was called "The Crawl" because The Duffers posted a tweet with the script title. However, for the other ones... that's crazy.

So remember there are 8 episodes in total, and we possibly only have 6 of their titles. Let's try to understand them together.

EP1 - So, for The Crawl I personally don't have theories for it. I just thought maybe it was going to be about escaping from someplace, or to get to a place.

EP2 - The Episode 2 is the most intriguing, "The Vanishing of ***** Wheeler." It reminds me a lot of the first episode of season 1: "The Vanishing of Will Byers" so it may have a sort of link. So we know it's a Wheeler, but who. If we count the starts there are 5 of them, maybe it's a random number or maybe they did this on purpose so we can know the number of letters in the name. So, Karen has five letters, Holly has five letters too, Nancy also and Mike and Ted are excluded. So only the women could vanish. Between these 3 characters, we know one has been recast: Holly. So maybe, Holly will be the one to disappear, because in a previous spoiler/leak it has been said that Holly was going to be a target of Vecna, so far we thought it was fake but it could turn out to be true actually. So if it's indeed Holly who disappears, and it could make sense because Will vanished when he was 11 and she's going to be around 8, I have a question, will she also get some sort of powers just like Will in the end when we find her?

And now that I think about it, maybe "The Crawl" is Holly's to try to escape from Vecna but she ends up in the Upside Down anyway?

I think Holly is the most possible Wheeler to vanish. And it has been said many times that Holly can be linked to Vecna in some ways. Lots of fans said that Karen could be Henry's sister and Holly is his nephew. Maybe? He would kidnap her to put pressure on Karen, because we know the parents and especially Karen will play a bigger role this season...

EP3 - "The Turbow Trap" is probably something against Vecna, I don't have anything, except maybe it could be made by Dustin because he's a genius at making stuff (He made Cerebro).

EP4 - "Sorcerer." I don't know why but I feel like it's either Vecna, because he's a sort of sorcerer, or maybe it's Will. Remember that in DnD, Will plays a sort of wizard/cleric. I don't know what could happen but... maybe it's also something else. It is probably in this episode that Holly comes back because they could all try to confront this Sorcerer, so Vecna.

EP5 - "Shock Jock" makes me think of "Trick or Treat, freak" an episode of season 2. The episode's name is kinda similar, I don't know how to explain that. But it's a goofy title to something dramatic like in the Halloween one. Jock could be Joyce. It's a shock to Joyce? Maybe something could happen to Will?

EP6 - This episode has probably the weirdest title of them all. "Escape from Camazotz." So... Camazotz is a Bat, more precisely a God who's form is a bat. He's a creature with the head of a bat and the body of a human, really weird to put this in the show. It's from the religion of the Maya, he's associated to night, death and sacrifice. But that's in real life. In DnD, Camazotz is the "Demon Lord of Bats and Fire." He literally likes hunting the mortals in the darkness. Just like Vecna. And in the Upside Down we saw there are in fact Bats, demobats, but is Vecna controlling them? He can't be both Vecna and Camazotz at the same time. Maybe Vecna is just a puppet of this unknown dimension?

The second edition of DnD was introduced in 1974, and Vecna was introduced in this edition. Which explains why they used this name for Henry. But Camazotz wasn't, it's probably in the 3rd or 4th edition.

Who are we gonna see? Camazotz, from the Maya or Camazotz from DnD?

I have some theories.

The first one is, somebody's going to sacrifice themselves to save everyone else. As I said in my previous theories, I had the idea of Robin and/or Jonathan that sacrifices themselves. In this context, I don't think Robin's sacrifice would happen for this sort of thing. However Jonathan's could be. It could be a big twist for Will because I have this idea where he's going to be either stuck, or he's going to stay in the Upside Down in some ways, along with Mike. So this could be one of their conversations later, it could ruin Will so Mike would be there to comfort him.

The second one is, someone's going to get killed by Camazotz, which explains the word "escape" in the title. Maybe Robin, Jonathan, Max (if she isn't already dead) or one parent like Karen or Ted.

The actor of Ted answered a question in an interview. Someone asked something about him not being mentioned by Vecna when he showed Nancy that her whole family is going to die, and the actor simply answered: "Oh. You noticed?" With a wink.

So maybe Ted knows about Karen's link to Vecna. Maybe it isn't their story isn't like what Nancy said to Jonathan in season 1. The whole "Perfect" family is probably a lie.

This could actually explain why Vecna showed what's gonna happen to the Wheeler family, to Nancy. Because she's the one who got this "Perfect family" idea. We never saw Mike talk about it to anyone. So.... this is all a little blurry...

But I think, in this episode, there has to be 1 death. Most likely Robin, because she was only introduced in season 3 and she's a recent character, compared to the other ones who were here since season 1.

I have this theory, what if the end of ST5 is the beginning of ST1. What I mean is that, we go back to the beginning like how it was before everything happened even though it actually happened. It's like, everything ended and now we're back to how it was. So it means, only the 4 boys, Steve, Nancy, Jonathan, Hopper and Joyce. Eleven wouldn't be, because she's one of the reasons it all started, and it would be such a good ending if she dies saving Hawkins. Barb doesn't count cause she'd dead. And every characters introduced later died so far: Billy, Max (half dead), Bob... Only Murray and Robin are left. Murray will def die that's for sure and Robin, for me, has to die too.

Now, I want to talk about BYLER.

Remember the episode 3 of season 3, with Will and Mike's fight under the rain? Guess who it was directed by:

Shawn Levy.

And who's going to direct episode 6 of ST5?

Shawn Levy.

He didn't only direct that, but he also directed the sauna episode. And what happens in the sauna episode?

Will: I can feel him....

Mike, looking at Will's lips: Max get away from the door...

So, if Shawn Levy direct the episode 6, we'll get byler. And was I thinking? Byler kiss episode 6, that was my theory. With 3 or 4 intimate moments between them before episode 6 and the kiss during this episode.

There is one director I didn't talk about, it's Frank Darabont. He's a director who made a lot of horror movies, and we know how Stanger Things can be disgusting sometimes. Right?

So if Frank directs 3 episodes, they're going to be very scary or atleast be special in a disgusting way, maybe? But it's definitely going to be horror for these episodes.

I think he'll probably direct episode 7, that'd make sense, maybe 8 too.

Anyway, that was it. Tell me what you guys think about these two spoilers/leaks. I hope the directing one is true. And the titles are still possibly to change in the future, but the episode 2 really caught me off guard. I bet it's gonna be Holly.

And by the way, I hope they can bring back Sarah, Hopper's daughter. The fact that her and Holly look alike, isn't a coincidence for me. Maybe Sarah is more important than we think she is.

[henrysglock]

So, James;

My friend just finished watching Season 4, and I want to initiate her into your enlightened theories: which analysis should I send her first, to ease her into the maddening complexity that is Henry and all the fuckery? (And maybe some if your ST textposts, because those are top-tier)

Ooooooh okay okay :3 You could probably just send her this post and let her work her way through it

First things first: a couple of crucial Em posts— Edward Creel Masterpost Timelines Masterpost Orderly Henry's Jumpsuit Masterpost

Now, some of my faves. Most of these are in my pinned post, but I'll list off the ones I like best here for ease (specifically re: NINA's inconsistencies and Vecna's inconsistencies).

Cracks and Mirrors series re: NINA Henry Fuckiness (1, 2, 3, 4)

Deliberately Inconsistent Filming in NINA: Not Solely Henry (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Vecna Guy vs Mindflayer Guy re: Fuckiness Outside NINA (1, 2, 3)

Vecna Acting Like A Puppet

UD Double-Agent Theory (1, 2)

Creature Attack Indications in NINA (1, 2)

NINA and Drug Usage

I think this is a good place to start!! It's definitely...a lot, lol. If your friend has any questions, please pass them along (or she can ask me herself, even). I love having reasons to theory talk!

[nothoughts-onlywomen]

Camazotz

I grew up reading a Wrinkle in Time, and remembering the storyline for that has sparked some season 5 theories in my mind…

Camazotz is a planet that succumbed to the Black Thing, which is considered to be pure darkness and evil. We know of another place that’s very similar…

The Upside Down is generally assumed to be evil, or at least contain evil things. But the other thing I’m noting here is the “hive mind.”

Camazotz and the Upside Down both operate under a hive mind. Meg’s dad Alex was imprisoned in Camazotz because he refused to conform. And, as we know, Max is trapped in the Upside Down somewhere.

Vecna’s connection to Master of Puppets makes me think that he’ll either have control of others or be under control by the Mind Flayer. Either that, or Max is actively fighting being under Vecna’s mind control, which is why she’s stuck there.

Yes, Camazotz could be a reference to the death bat, but I refuse to believe that the Duffers would post this carelessly:

Which leads me to my point. Why do I find this so important?

Upon their initial trip to Camazotz, Charles Wallace allows himself to be hypnotized by IT so he could find their dad. Calvin and Meg go back to Camazotz to find and free Charles Wallace. And when Meg finally faces IT, Charles Wallace is still under IT’s control. She has to tell him she loves him, and remind him how much she cares about him in order for him to be broken out of IT’s trance.

Picture this. Max may not have intentionally allowed herself to get trapped in the Upside Down. But there’s no doubt in my mind that she’s using whatever energy she has left to see if she can figure out any weaknesses of Vecna’s. In some way, Vecna will be trying to control her mind, and she’ll be actively resisting him, but running out of stamina and time. So now El and Lucas have to go in to save her.

The show has utilized this same trope that A Wrinkle in Time did: the power of love against evil. Something we’ve already seen here:

I have a fairly good feeling that Max will be in danger of succumbing to the Upside Down and/or Vecna’s mind control. And Lucas (and/or El) will have to talk to her, plead with her, tell her how much they love and cherish her. Bonus points if they use her letters to do so, offering positive memories that she included. And I think Lucas will do a Mike in this scenario and finally tell Max that he loves her and hasn’t given up on her.

And this, ultimately, will allow Max just enough agency for them to smuggle her out of her cage. Hugs and hopefully a Lumax kiss (several, even. Complete with embraces and tears and face caressing) will ensue.

And we’ll all be crying our eyes out.

[alltheweirdkidsinoneplace]

Eddie Munson + potential Iron Maiden references

because I'm hyperfixiating and desperate. Also apparently not everyone was raised on 80s metal, so this might be new to some people and gatekeeping is lame. None of this is confirmed obviously and I'm probably reaching but here we go

let's start with the most obvious one: This is Iron Maiden's mascot. His name is Eddie. He's been on every single album cover, most single covers, merch, posters... He looks a little different every time, but he's always undead.

This is the cover artwork for the 1982 album The Number of the Beast. It features A huge version of Eddie, controlling the strings of a red, devil-like creature, which in turn holds the strings of a tiny version of Eddie. The Devil (Vecna, there I said it) is not shown to be aware of Big Eddie controlling him. It's all very double agent, The Spy parallel. Also if you take just the frame of Big Eddie's hand and the devil, it looks A LOT like Eddie Munson's puppetmaster tattoo. With a little fantasy and even more reaching there's also some vaguely mindflayery shape in the background of the image.

(probably irrelevant but still fun fact: This album was released on March 22nd 1982 - EXACTLY four years before Eddie Munson became the main suspect in Chrissy's death)

This one speaks for itself. We've all seen the Eddie prequel book that's gonna come out later this year with literally the same title as this 1983 song.

Interestingly, Eddie has batwings here, aka KAS THEORY CONFIRMED?

This one, holy shit. This is the artwork for the 1986 (!) album Somewhere in Time, and if the year and title weren't enough, there is so much more.

1. Again starting with the most obvious: There is a graffito on the wall to the very right that literally says EDDIE LIVES.

2. Under the graffito we see a hand reaching up from the ground (grave?). The version of Eddie that we get here is a cyborg, and the hand on the ground looks very cyborg-esque as well. The band members are seen a little towards the left as normal humans, so it's not like everyone's just a cyborg in this world. Ergo the hand belongs to a second Eddie, which is very in line with the whole "there is another timeline with shadow selves"-theory.

3. The red clouds in the background are very vecna-y.

4. The little winged figure from the Flight of Icarus cover is seen left of the big tower in the middle.

5. The neon sign of the movie theatre to the very bottom left contains the words "Live After Death" (illegible here, but it's there!)

6. The lyrics on this album! In particular Wasted Years, featuring the lines "But now it seems I'm just a stranger to myself

And all the things I sometimes do, it isn't me but someone else"

- again, very much in line with shadow selves. And even more Stranger in a Strange Land:

"Was many years ago that I left home and came this way

I was a young man full of hopes and dreams

But now it seems to me that all is lost and nothing gained

Sometimes things ain't what they seem

No brave new world, no brave new world

No brave new world, no brave new world

Night and day I scan horizon, sea and sky

My spirit wanders endlessly

Until the day will dawn and friends from home discover why

Hear me calling, rescue me

Set me free, set me free

Lost in this place and leave no trace

Stranger in a strange land

Land of ice and snow

Trapped inside this prison

Lost and far from home

[...]

They found his body lying where it fell on that day

Preserved in time for all to see

No brave new world, no brave new world

Lost in this place, and leave no trace

What became of the man that started

All are gone and their souls departed

Left me here in this place so all alone"

Does that sound like someone left for dead in the Upside Down or is that just me?

7. idk a fuckload more in the cover probablay because it's wild.

Bonus Metallica fact: Master of Puppets was released on March 3rd 1986. Eeven if he bought the album the day it was released (he would) that would have given him under three weeks to rehearse it so much that he could give the most metal concert ever on March 27th.

Anyway that's just from the top of my head; I might add on to it if/when I think of more. PLEASE spam me with your theories I beg you.

Side note: Contrary to popular belief, if you got into metal because of Eddie: That's awesome! Welcome! Again, gatekeeping sucks; we've all had our minds blown by a Metallica song for the first time at some point, so let's be nice to the newcomers.

[coniangray]

No bc what was the point of this?

ik the lab reached out to him cus they figured he knows the kids and therefore lead them (and probably their target: el) back to them.

But that doesnt quite add up to the timeline, does it...

I think there was another reason they reached out to him. They were probably planning this for a while now, even before s1 started, and tought clarke was the perfect link to the kids and eleven, but why?

Clarke might be connected to vecna and there is proof.

Either hes one of his followers or simply another puppet or a coverup pawn. I havent really thought this through but i do believe hes heavily involved also thanks to @liebstie (bubble) on twitter who gave me food for thought.

The suspicion began when he first saw el, and his reactions were extremely similar to billys in s3 after seeing her for the first time

hell even their expressions are similar

something something they both looked like they recognized el.

Another scene that kinda bugs me about his arc is this:

Look at his expressions, hes definetely hiding something, He knows theres a gate, and he knows how to get there thats why he didnt tell them the entire truth.

These were also foreshadowing the uds effect in the mest seasons, the "swallow us whole" part covering season 5.

BONUS:

HE KNOWS. He knows abt the lab definetly and he also knows about vecna. hes iffy, i can tell but like i cant yet tell if hes under vecnas control or working with him. Now we havent seen him interacting with brenner at all, which leads me to think this:

What if something happened to force him into a connection with vecna, one different than wills or billys, that actually led the lab lady reach out to him and keep an eye on him?? We know she was sent by brenner, and the whole newsletter thing was bs to coverup why exacly they needed him, Clarke is suspicious at all times, as if hes tiptoeing onto what information hes allowed to share about the gates and the upside down.

My theory is that clarke is somehow paraleling both snape and slughorn from harry potter, as vecna paralels tom riddle/ voldermort. He could have helped him in the past since he was presumably always hyperfixating on science, and maybe they had to exchange services of some sort, i havent seen the play so idk if he was involved at all.

Plus this scene where he told them about finneas' injury is also most likely heavily involved in his arc

And then the camera pans from focusing to will, and then max.. which foreshadowed her injury in st4.

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

I think the puppet tattoo is going to play into it, just like the bats ended up doing. I mean, they said that Joseph picked out the tattoos, and with all the good theories that came out of it, it seems like a waste, not to use it. Plus, it seems like Vecna framed Eddie from the beginning because otherwise, why would he have waited until Chrissy was in Eddie's trailer to grab her? And then he grabbed Fred at the trailer park and then Patrick right in front of Jason. I do also think that maybe Vecna had gotten inside of Jason's head and influenced him, kind of like a puppet. Do I still believe hole heartedly that Jason was an asshole before all of this? Yes. It just seemed like he was cursed a little bit, too. Eddie's death would be pointless if he didn't come back because with or without him, the bats would have dropped after Nancy and the others attacked Vecna. The question is: why would Vecna be interested in Eddie? Why would he want him by his side to begin with? Is it just because he can or because he saw how everyone viewed Eddie and he knew that Eddie would be easier to influence? I just want Eddie to come back, and I don't see how people say that Eddie's death finished his story. It didn't. It left it incomplete and left us with so many questions.

[willthewise7]

So in light of recent leaks I’m going to put a list together of predictions for Season 5, let’s see if they look similar to leaks. These are just predicted based off theories I’ve made and narrative direction.

- Time froze in the Upside Down due to Will. When he entered he somehow not only manipulated time but also mirrored Hawkins.

- El is focused and determined to save Max throughout the Season.

- Mike and Will have a really emotional scene regarding the painting.

- Mike and Nancy have many important scenes together, one of which involves Vecna.

- Vecna needs Will in order to utilise his plan, but he underestimates him.

- Henry’s backstory is revealed, showing him being bullied for being different. It illustrates his lack of a bond with his mother.

- The party have to fight the Thessalhydra together, as depicted by the painting.

- “Without heart, we’d all fall apart” is key to the resolution.

- The reason as to why Will was taken in Season 1 is key and will be revealed.

- Will and El use their strong bond in order to defeat Vecna and the Mindflayer.

- The Mindflayer has ultimate control of the Upside Down, which Vecna is unaware of.

- Steve saves Dustin from dying and ends up sacrificing himself.

- Robin and Vickie kiss.

- Dustin deals with the trauma from Eddie’s death. The party comfort him, with his bond strengthening with Will.

- El and Lucas remember the letters that Max wrote for them, they read them out. They protect Max at all costs.

- Will has an emotional scene with Joyce and opens up to her.

- Jonathan and Nancy’s bond grows stronger once again.

- Will and El share a really emotional scene together, their platonic bond is shown strongly throughout the final season.

- Lots of Byers family scenes, with Will and Jonathan’s strong bond being shown again.

- All previous monsters return for the final season.

- Steve and Robin team-up to fight demodogs.

- Hopper and El have a scene similar to Season 3 where they say goodbye to each other before going to utilise a plan.

- El saves Max.

- Mike and El decide to be best friends instead of being in a relationship.

- The Mindflayer influenced Henry from the start and was the real “demon” in the Creel House attic. Taking control of things from the very start. It wanted to consume the world and pulled the strings for this to happen, using Henry as a puppet.

- Will is able to help defeat the Upside Down due to Mike’s reciprocated love for him.

- El and Lucas protect Max from demodogs, sent to finish off Max.

- Mike is key to bringing together a master plan to defeating Vecna.

- Erica and Lucas share an emotional sibling moment.

- Hopper protects the Byers at all costs, having epic fighting scenes.

- Hopper and Joyce share many emotional scenes together.

- Murray dies whilst in the final battle.

- The party goes separate ways at the end of the show, with some characters leaving together. Multiple endings.

[will80sbyers]

Omg randomly saw more "Max is in a cage / bird theory" proof with little max being in the sparrow team!! she's literally a little bird 🐦 so she became Vecna's new puppet like all the birds are in the show

All of Vecna's targets here

[steddieas-shegoes]

Can I ask what Kas!Eddie means? I’ve come across it a lot but I’ve never found a post explaining,, like I get it’s vampire Eddie but yeah what is Kas??

Oh my friend!!! Let me just be totally honest, I’m not gonna be able to give you a well rounded answer so I hope someone does.

I have never played D&D and really only learned what was necessary to know what the hell the kids and Eddie were talking about in the show. My best friend is showing me and Liam how to play someday but my brain heard math and said “😬😬😬 you can do the math for me tho right” and that’s been that.

But shortly after the end of season 4, everyone was like “we’ve done this before, Eddie isn’t dead” and came up with a bunch of theories (all of them very interesting, though many were extremely unlikely). The one that stuck around the most is that he’s coming back as Kas the Bloody Handed. In a very uneducated nutshell, Vecna turns him into his ultimate weapon (a master of puppets if you will 👀) for the creatures of the upside down. But in the lore, Kas turns on Vecna in order to gain his power, kills him with a sword I don’t know the name of but it’s like the Ultimate Sword of Vengeance or something.

He’s basically a vampire that’s got upside down creature tendencies. Not a cute vampire by any means, way WAY less human than what fiction has always given us for examples of vampires.

I hope this helps a bit! Again, I don’t know everything here, I just know what little I need to understand the theories! If anyone wants to add or correct me, please feel free!

[aemiron-main]

Who Is Edward Creel? If You’re Confused About Him, Read This Post

So, I’ve been seeing a lot of people asking about Edward Creel and who he is and what the hell people are talking about with him, so I figured I’d make a big general post about Edward. You can skip to the end for a bulletpoint TLDR summary.

Where Did Edward Come From?

I originally noticed him here, in the Indianapolis Gazette article about the Creel murders, and made an initial post about his name just being a reference to the idea of Vecna using Eddie/Edward Munson as a corpse puppet.

However, as I went through more of the Indianapolis Gazette, I realized that this goes WAY, WAY beyond “corpse puppet Eddie,” references, and rather than “Edward Creel being a reference to Edward Munson,” it’s actually the other way around, and Edward Munson is a reference to Edward Creel and has multiple lines that reinforce the idea of Edward being Vecna rather than Henry.

Here is a large post about some of the timeline differences, and it’s a post that’s been sitting in my drafts for a LONG time and is what initially prompted me to look further into the multiple timeline stuff/the concrete differences between Edward’s timeline and Henry’s timeline.

As far as “where did Edward come from in-universe?” goes though, THAT is a much more complicated question, one that I’m still trying to answer.

Who Is Edward Creel?

So, who IS Edward? Well, I very much think that Edward is Vecna, and here’s why:

1.) I talked in this post about the parallels between ST and Jekyll and Hyde, specifically regarding Henry Creel and Edward Creel versus Henry Jekyll and Edward Hyde, and how Jekyll and Hyde and ST tie into Carl Jung’s theory of the shadow. I would recommend reading that post for a solid intro into the idea that Edward is Vecna and the relationship between Edward and Henry and Edward being Henry’s “shadow self”.

2.) Eddie/Edward Munson is literally Vecna in the DND game- just like how Edward Creel is actually Vecna, they’re meant to parallel eachother.

3.) All of the name weirdness where there’s that whole scene with Robin and the Hawkins gang being uncle to figure out what to call Vecna (Vecna or Henry or 001), and how even though the supposed plot twist was that Henry was Vecna, it’s actually that 001 was Vecna, and we don’t know for sure if Henry is 001 due to the Edward weirdness, and all of the continued debate about names after the supposed plot twist/reveal tells me that we still aren’t done learning about who Vecna actually is. Especially since at the end of S4, Will just talks about “him,” and how he can still feel him, and doesn’t name him. You’d think if Vecna was Henry, they’d throw in a reference to Henry there, and that in general, they’d draw a stronger link between Henry and Vecna rather than drawing that link between 001 and Vecna, which is what they’ve done.

4.) There's some other reasons too, but I'm still finishing up the analysis posts for those.

How Is Edward Creel Connected To Henry Creel?

So, this is a question that ties into the question of “where did Edward Creel come from in-universe?”, and as such, is also a difficult question to answer. However, right now, these are the main theories about where Edward came from and how he’s connected to Henry (none of these are in any particular order, like 1.) isn’t the top theory or anything):

1.) Edward was split off or cloned from Henry in Hawkins Lab as part of Brenner’s attempts to recreate Henry, and then something happened with timeline and time travel weirdness, and Edward ended up with his whole own timeline where he grew up in the Creel house instead of being cloned/born in a lab.

2.) Edward and Henry are eachother’s naturally-occurring equivalents from different timelines, and one or both of them and/or the lab were messing with time and ended up swapping timelines/temporal displacement stuff.

3.) Henry and Edward were born as actual brothers in the same timeline but something happened with timelines splitting and they ended up in different timelines.

How Is Edward Connected To Timeline and Time Travel Weirdness?

So, I already talked about this post where I compare Edward’s timeline with Henry’s timeline and all of the drastic differences, but it goes beyond just different timelines, because we have all that imagery of Henry/Edward turning back a clock with his mind, and all of the general timeline weirdness/time travel imagery in ST, in addition to Vecna’s clock imagery.

I’m still figuring out exactly what happened and how he’s connected to Henry and timeline weirdness, but there’s definitely a big connection there, especially considering birthdaygate and the fact that in Edward’s timeline, the Creel murders happened on Will’s birthday.

Transcription of The Indianapolis Gazette Article Involving Edward

So, this is just a transcription of the article relating to the Creels, not all of the articles in the page (although I AM finishing up analysis posts of those articles).

Paper Title: Indianapolis Gazette

Publication Date: Thursday, March 26th, 1959. (MIGHT say 1958, but most likely 1959)

Article Title: 3 Dead as Police Probe Grisly Scene

Subtitle: Bodies Left Mutilated, Eyeless, Creel Defiant

Column 1:

Bulletin

"Local family man, Victor Creel, murdered his wife and two small children Saturday night.

The bodies were discovered early Sunday morning after Creel was found wandering aimlessly along the side of Highway 49, South of Hawkins.

Deputy John Snow from Hawkins Police Department intercepted Creel and made the discovery upon returning him home. The bodies of three persons have been found inside the home of a 35-year-old Town of Hawkins Roane County family man. Law enforcement officers searching Sundary Morning for signs of foul play found the bodies of Virginia Creel, Edward Creel, and Alice Creel strewn about the foyer of the house, six miles from downtown Hawkins.

Sherif fJack Kaulfield of Roane County and Director Larry Peacefield of the State of Indiana Crime Laboratory kept newsmen from the site Sunday.

Roane County Dist. Atty. ParkerJones said today that Creel had broken his silence that he "might of" killed the victims and admitted to being present when the victims died. Shortly after 11 o'clock, this morning, Creel was taken from the jails at Hawkins by Jack-" (article cuts off)

Column 2

"Officers who had been at the scene said these things were among those found at the Creels' home: The eyeless, mutilated body of Mrs Creel, "butchered, like you would clean a deer," according to one law enforcement officer. The mangled and eyeless bodies of the two young children- Virginia and Edward- laid deflated and bent on the floor of the foyer. Creel at first told authorities he knew nothing about the things that occurred at his house. He is decribed as 5 feet 10 inches tall, weighing about 158 (?) pounds, with light skin, light brown hair, and "appearing slight and unable to perform basic motor functions"- a condition likely brought on as a result of the psychological consequences of committing the murders, said head psychiatrist at Pennhurst Asylum, Alexis McMurry. Creel was known around town for his generosity and the Creel Family was regularly seen at Sunday Mass at St. Phillip's Catholic Church on Sundays. Which has led many locals to wonder what led Creel to commit such ghastly acts. A veteran from the second world war, VIctor Creel served two tours of duty in Europe and returned home a hero. After moving to-" (article cuts off)

Caption Under Photo

House of Horror

Here is the house in which the Creels lived for the last two years where authorities found the remains of Alice, Edward, and Virginia Creel- Victor Creel's wife, son, and daugther- Early SUnday in what police are calling "the most grisly set of murders the town of Hawkins has ever seen"

What Is Edward’s Timeline/Thw Indianapolis Gazette Timeline?

Here’s the key events and info that you should know if you’re interested in Edward’s timeline/the Indianapolis Gazette timeline:

Edward moved to Hawkins in 1957 and lived there for two years.

Edward’s father is Victor Creel, and his Victor is 35 years old as of 1958.

Edward’s mother is Alice Creel, and her age is not listed.

Edward’s sister is Virginia Creel, and her age is not listed.

The Creel Murders happened on March 21st, 1959 in Edward’s timeline.

How are Connie Frazier and Alice Creel and Mike Wheeler and Eleven Connected To The Edward Timeline?

Remember how I mentioned that Edward’s mother is named Alice, NOT Virginia (unlike Henry, whose mother is Virginia)? Well, that’s who “Mother Alice,” is (if you’ve seen me using that name on my blog), and I also think that she’s Connie Frazier.

I originally posted here about Connie being Henry’s sister, Alice, prior to the realization of how she connected to the Edward timeline, but then that turned into the realization that Connie is more likely Edward’s mother, Alice, rather than Henry’s sister, Alice. I’d recommend reading that post, so I’m not going to retype it all here, but the name “Alice,” plays repeatedly in the song “White Rabbit,” when Connie is on screen. I’ve got more Connie posts here and here. Mother Alice’s death in the Hawkins Middle School hallway in S1 even parallels Daughter/Sister Alice’s death at the Creel house in 1959.

In this post, I talk further about Connie being Mother Alice, but I also talk about something/someone else in that post- Karen Wheeler.

I think that Karen Wheeler is Sister Virginia/Virginia Creel from another timeline (the Edward timeline). I’ve got more posts about Karen being Daughter Virginia and Virginia-Karen parallels here, here, here, and here.

As well, @henrysglock has a bunch of great posts about how Eleven ties into this, as Eleven is likely Edward’s daughter in one timeline (daughter in the sense that he’s her biological father due to Brenner trying to recreate Henry/Edward).

However, if Eleven is Edward’s daughter in the Edward timeline, and Karen Wheeler is Edward’s sister in the Edward timeline, then doesn’t that make Mike and Eleven blood cousins? Yes.

I posted here, here, here, and here, about Edward Timeline Victor being Karen/Daughter Virginia’s father and therefore being Nancy, Holly, and Mike’s grandfather.

Summary

So, here’s the current main thoughts to know about Edward Creel:

He was originally found here, in the Indianapolis Gazette.

He is very, very likely Vecna, rather than Henry Creel being Vecna.

He has a timeline that is different from Henry Creel’s timeline.

Even in the definition of a timeline as “a series of dates,” and setting time travel/multiple timeline weirdness aside (even though he IS very much involved with that) his series of dates is canonically, indisputably, different from Henry’s, thus, literally different timelines even in the most basic sense.

His mother is Alice Creel and his sister is Virginia Creel, the opposite of Henry’s mother and sister.

The Indianapolis Gazette DOES NOT mention Henry Creel at ALL. ONLY Edward and mentions him repeatedly as being Victor Creel’s son.

Edward’s father is still Victor Creel, but his Victor is younger than Henry’s Victor, as Edward’s Victor was 35 in 1959 and Henry’s Victor was 40 in 1959.

Edward Creel lived in Hawkins for two years, and moved there in 1957.

In Edward’s timeline, the Creel murders happened on the night of March 21st and were discovered on the morning of the 22nd (Will’s birthday), whereas the murders happened on the night of March 25th in Henry’s timeline.

Edward Creel’s body was supposedly found with his eyes gouged out (whereas Henry slipped into a coma after 7 days and did not lose his eyes), however, in both Henry and Edward’s case, there is ALWAYS the possibility of the lab creating fake bodies, which is what I think happened, especially since we see the same State Troopers involved with Will’s fake body arresting Victor.

Edward’s sister and mother also likely survived, which is where we get into more speculation, because I have the initial post here about Connie Frazier being Alice Creel and then a post here about Connie Frazier being Edward’s Mother/Mother Alice/Alice Creel from another timeline and about Karen Wheeler being Edward’s sisters/Sister Virginia/Virginia Creel from another timeline.

I’m still figuring out exactly how Edward and Henry are related, if they’re a.) just eachother from naturally-occurring alternate timelines, if they’re b.) twin brothers from the same timeline but separated into different timelines scientifically or supernaturally or c.) Edward being Henry’s clone as a result of Brenner trying to recreate Henry in a lab or split off from Henry, or vice versa, and then Edward getting to live at the Creel house/experience the Creel murders via timeline weirdness even though he was “born” in the lab.

There’s also a solid chance that there’s multiple Henries (possibly even three or four, for example) and one Edward, or multiple Edwards and multiple Henries etc etc, because there seems to be multiple timelines happening, and also there’s multiple different Henries/Edwards during NINA, all with different blood splatters on their jumpsuits, and all with completely different, changing child corpses during their massacre sequences.

There is a “Richard Brenner”, listed in the S1 final episode article about Will’s vanishing, and Edward and his timeline is likely connected to Richard Brenner rather than Martin Brenner, or Henry is connected to Richard and Edward to Martin, I’m still figuring that out.

Some of the S1 scenes, specifically the ones involving Connie Frazier, seem to be occurring in the Edward Timeline (or one of the Edward timelines/the Indianapolis Gazette timeline), because if Connie Frazier is Mother Alice Creel, then she exists in the Edward timeline, so when we see her, we’re seeing Edward’s timeline. Unless, of course, she got mixed up into another timeline, which is always an option.

I’m suspicious that Edward was watching the Creel family from the void or from another timeline (see: Will’s “True Sight”/however he was able to see the alphabet on the Byers’ wall from the UD in s1 and was “trapped in the walls”/in the Byers’ house) and that Edward is what Victor was “sensing,” in the attic, much like Billy sensing/seeing El in the void in s3 and Mike seemingly sensing El in the void in s2. Will being “trapped in the walls,” of the Byers’ house is likely going to come back with Edward and Henry in S5 and Edward being “in the walls,”/watching the Creels from the void or from another timeline.

One of the “Henries” monologuing to El during the massacre is very very likely Edward

Regarding what I said about Mother Alice being Connie Frazier and Daughter Virginia being Karen Wheeler in the Edward timeline, that would make Victor Creel the grandfather of Mike, Holly, and Nancy, and would make Connie Frazier their grandmother.

And if El is Edward’s daughter from the lab and Brenner trying to recreate him, then that would mean that Mike and El are blood cousins in the Edward timeline.

List of My Posts About Edward

Here’s a current list of my posts about Edward, and I’m finish up a new pinned post/directory that’ll have a continuously updating list of links to my posts about him! (here is the link to the edward pinned post section)

Who The Fuck Is Edward Creel? Original Discovery of Edward Creel Post (x)

Edward Creel is Vecna and Henry Creel is Innocent: The First Shadow, Edward Creel, Henry Jekyll and Edward Hyde, and Carl Jung’s Theory of the Shadow (x)

Initial Post About The Creel Murders Happening On Will’s Birthday In The Edward Timeline (x)

NOTE: I use “Henry” in this post because this was before I connected it to Edward being a separate person, so just swap “Henry” for Vecna, but the Indianapolis Gazette IS the Edward timeline.

Confirming That The Creel Murders Happened On Will’s Birthday In The Edward Timeline (x)

NOTE: Same as the other post, use “Henry” in this post because this was before I connected it to Edward being a separate person, so just swap “Henry” for Vecna, but the Indianapolis Gazette IS the Edward timeline.

The Creels’ Disappearing Door and Magic, Colour-Changing Wallpaper (x)

Birthdaygate and When Did The Henry-Edward Split Happen And Was Edward Watching The Creel Family From The Void Or Via True Sight From Another Timeline? (x)

Edward Creel and the Lost Brother (x)

Edward Creel is Totally Vecna- Eddie’s DND Scene (x)

Edward Munson and Henry Creel and Being Blamed For Murder (x)

Revisiting The “If We Just Go Based On Henry’s Monologue, We Would Have No Clue Alice Even Existed Until The End And He Never Mentions Her By Name” Post With The Context Of Edward (x)

The First Shadow: Shadow(s) of The Past and LOTR (x)

The Shadows of The Past Have a Very Long Reach (x)

The First Shadow: Demons In Your Past (x)

Edward Being Bolded On The S4 Movie Board (x)

You’re Not A Child vs I’m Not A Dog And Henry Or Edward Being “Not A Child” (x)

Edward and Henry and 001 vs 000 (x)

Henry’s Colour-Changing Socks (x)

I Don’t Know What That Thing Is But It’s Not My Son- Victor, Henry, Edward, and Vecna (x)

Why Are We Seeing Through The Eyes of Someone The Same Height As Henry So Often? And Why Did Henry Look Up At The Camera? (x)

How Does Timeline Theory Stuff Tie Into Other Events In ST and How Does It Tie Into The Themes of ST and How Are The Duffers Going To Pull It Off Without Blindsiding the GA? (x)

Something Was Wrong With Me Vs What Is Wrong With My Boy (x)

Lost In The Darkness vs Hiding In The Darkness vs Hiding In The Shadows vs Good At Hiding (x)

Is Sam Owens Edward’s Father/Victor Creel From Another Timeline? (x)

“Well, my hair was buzzed and i didnt have these sweet old tatties yet”- Another Eddie Munson vs Edward Creel Parallel (x)

Just Move Your Date This One Time: Edward and Moving Dates (x)

All Your Theories About It Are Wrong, Because I’ve Seen One and Fought One: Edward Creel is Vecna/001 (ft Which One Is It?) (x)

The Lab IDs That Kali Dumped Out Vs Edward and Henry (x)

Edward Creel and the Criticism of Eddie Munson Being a Pointless Character (x)

Henward’s Plinko Reflection (x)

Henward Standing Like Alice Vs Standing Like Young Henward (x)

That’s The One: Will and 001 and Edward Creel (x)

I’m Eleven, You Long Haired Freak (x)

Edward, Eddie, and Straitjackets (x)

Joseph Quinn and Jamie Bower Doing Press Together, ST5, and Edward Creel/Vecna Using Eddie Munson as a Flesh Puppet So That Jamie Is Freed Up To Play Henry Creel (x)

Reblog of Stav’s Post Regarding Edward Creel, Eddie Munson, Reefer Rick, Richard Brenner, and Will’s Vanishing vs Eddie Hiding Parallels and Eddie Being Mistaken For Rick (x)

Eddie The Banished vs Edward Creel and Eddie’s Death Scene vs Edward Creel/001 Getting Sent To Superhell (x)

[wibble-wobbegong]

i know for a FACT the boys have said this before but it just clicked for me why the eddie puppet theory is so god damn funny if vecna is actually edward. if that’s how they reveal that he isn’t henry im either gonna a) kill myself b) piss myself laughing

[alcalystrasz]

I know you've been waiting for it. So... Here's my first theory about Stranger Things 5 :

(No Spoilers, just a theory)

Theory n°1 : Vecna's crazy role this season.

Alright, I'd like to start first with a resume about the 4 lasts seasons. For the three firsts seasons it's kind of my thoughts because Vecna never really explained his role during these three seasons, so I'll try to make it logical.

Season 1 -> Will gets kidnapped into the Upside Down.

If we remember what Vecna said to Nancy in S4, he says he was a sensitive, lonely kid. He was good at drawing, and he always felt different. You know who's EXACTY like that? Yup, Will. So in my opinion, he kidnapped Will in the first place because he was like him. But why keeping him so long without killing him? Because Will's good at hiding? No. We learn in the book about him being in the Upside Down what actually happened to him. He said he tried multiple times to "kill himself" like getting the Demogorgons to eat him, but whenever they got the chance they turned back. So I think Vecna was controlling the Demogorgons in order to not kill Will. He maybe wanted to test him, or keep him here until he could be able to do something with him. Take over him, get inside his body, or other stuff... So then Will's finally saved, but it doesn't end for him.

Season 2 -> Will gets possessed by the Mind Flayer.

So this season, Vecna probably wanted to test Will more, or, this time, to take him in his side, since they have the same personality. So he got the Mind Flayer and sent it to possess Will. However, in the end, Joyce made it to remove the creature from his body. That, of course, made Vecna mad, especially when El closed the gate. But, fortunately for him, it wasn't the end.

Season 3 -> The Flesh Mind Flayer wants to kill Eleven.

Russians opened an other door, which is why he was able to control the Mind Flayer through the Upside Down. Cause if the gate is closed, no more control and the Mind Flayer "dies." Which is what happened at the end of season 3 by the way. But, why willing to Kill El, and not controlling more Mike now? Simple question. She's always changing his plans and that annoys him. So killing her off would be the best to get Will to join him in is...what? Army? Maybe. But she managed to destroy the Mind Flayer, once again, with everyone else this time. That is when Vecna got super mad and finally decided to go in the nature and kill some teenagers. Yeah, let's go Henry!

Season 4 -> Vecna wants to kill Eleven.

Sooooo.... So far, Vecna was not a good master to his puppets (got the ref?), so he decided to be the big master, without puppets this time. We learn in the late season, that the more he kills, the more he becomes stronger, so he's like "Yeah let's go kill, to be come stronger." Logic. So he went down to kill, but not nobody, random teens with past traumas who feel guilt. Chrissy, Fred, Patrick... then El went to fight him, and honestly watching this I was like "Bitch are you nuts he's stronger?" And he, in fact was. The only reason El managed to get out of those vines she was trapped in was with Mike's words (sort of). So she then finally beat the ass out of him and he, of course, got totally BURNED by the fruity three (rip Eddie). But then what? We see he got away with it, he's still alive, and we learn from Will's words (oh weird?) that he's still alive, he's hurt, but he's there. And he doesn't want to kill just El or her friends now, but everyone in Hawkins. So it isn't about saving them anymore but the whole town.

So, now considering all that. Here's finally my theory:

We know Vecna wanted to control or make Will join him in the first two season, and it was logic, cause they're alike, they're sensitive, lonely, they feel different from other people and they're good in arts. During these seasons, Vecna probably wanted to observe and understand Will's behavior in some circumstances. Like what if he gets into this world like Vecna got into? He's traumatized? Oh shit. Well how about his personality changes completely like Vecna. He's also traumatized? Well that's a bummer.

What I'm trying to say is that Will and Vecna are very connected even now. Before, with Will's presence in the Upside Down and true sight, but also now because he also and still feels him behind his neck, like before. He was trying to, small steps by small steps, leading him to join him. And that'd what I want to point out.

I think, Vecna will try to finally make Will join him. BUT, Will, of course, won't accept. So I imagine Vecna putting Will in a sort of transe state, like he did with his four other victims, and maybe show him some moments in his life, that shows how miserable and how sad his life is, and that he'll be way better and stronger if he came with him. But Will will refuse. Why? He may be sensitive, a little naive and sometimes stupid, let's be honest, he's not going to let Vecna take him, because there's one thing that'll make him stay: MIKE FUCKING WHEELER. So I imagine, then Vecna putting his big ass hand on his face and that'll make Will float, just like in season 4 with Max and the other kids. But instead of being killed (cause it's Will, like, bro, come on), he can take a piece of wood or I don't know what but something sharp that he finds. You didn't understand? Let me explain: I imagine this, happen at the exact same place it happened to Max, that's why I said a piece of wood. WHO CARES? SO THEN HE TAKES THAT, AND BOOM, in the eye of Vecna, his left eye to be precise. Why? Don't you remember what Eddie said in his DnD campagne? :

"He's not only missing his left arm, but his LEFT EYE!"

So that's why I think Will could destroy his left eye, as a foreshadowing to what Eddie said (I mean why not?). Vecna would then be hurt again, and let Will go, but he could try to stop him, but not the same way as Max, nah that was too iconic, we need something more Byers, more Will... more William Byers... he could try to stop him by making him hear horrible things Mike told him, like in the rain fight of season 3, or the Rink O'Mania one... But he'd manage to finally get out of this, with the help of Mike's words also, cause I clearly see Mike talking to him. Maybe even a parallel, to what Will said while he had to get El out of Vecna's tentacles "You're the heart", but this time it is Jonathan Damn Byers who says it to Mike. Like, that'd be banger, just saying.

So what next? I already said he could try to take Will by his side, now what? Remember, in season 4 we learn the more he kills, the more he's strong. So I think, he'll try to get to kill all the characters we know, before killing whole Hawkins. Let me explain:

We know that everytime Vecna kills, he uses people's past trauma, in which they feel guilt. Who has past traumas with guilt? Yeah, almost everyone. So here's a quick resume and explanation of what could happen to almost all the characters.

-Nancy's targeted -> past trauma: Barbara's death -> saved by Steve or Jonathan. So why Steve or Jonathan? They're her two loves, be for real. However I see more Steve than Jonathan, but Jonathan could also be possible so it's between both.

-Jonathan's targeted -> past trauma: Will's disappearance in S1 -> saved by Steve. So why Steve? To show Jonathan that they're not enemies anymore, and that they could totally be friends. But it could also be Dustin, his bestfriend, or Robin, his girl bestfriend. But I have something else for Robin...

-Dustin's targeted -> past trauma: Eddie's death -> saved by Steve or Mike. Steve cause he's his bestfriend, but also why not Mike, because they both knew Eddie, and Mike could help him going through this because he also went through it.

-Lucas's targeted -> past trauma: Max's coma state/death -> saved by Erica. I say /death because we don't know if she will actually survive in season 5...

-Will's targeted -> past trauma: tons. Vecna wants him to join him -> saved by Mike.

So I have atleast 5 people that could be targets of Vecna, as for others... not sure what could happen to them. There's still: Steve, Joyce, Hopper, Murray (lol), Erica, Robin, Mike and Suzie (why not). I know Steve doesn't have past traumas he's feeling guilty for, but that's for another theory, along with Robin. Joyce, Murray and Hopper are adults, not sure they could be targetted. As for Erica and Suzie.... Erica doesn't feel guilty about anything, and she's younger so I think Vecna, has a small heart, and will let her live, and Suzie... it's Suzie... I mean... yeah, I think she's safe. However there are still characters we didn't talk about: Karen, Ted, Holly and the other family members of Lucas and Dustin. We know that the series really centered on the Byers and Wheeler family, but never on the Henderson's or Sinclair. So... there's a reason behind that. But it is for another theory.

So to resume, what is Vecna's crazy role this season? Well he's going to turn into a serial killer, trying to kill atleast 4 of our characters and make 1 try to join his army. But he's also going to do more, such as... destroying the Wheeler's house. I'm not kidding. After seeing a "spoiler" of ST5, that I know isn't real (it was clearly fake cause other stuff were like nonsense), I was like "yo it could be a great idea actually." So I imagined a really dramatic scene where, after his 5 tries, Vecna gets mad and tries to make fall the house of the Wheelers. Why? Maybe because everyone could reunite there and talk about a plan or something, when weird shit started to happen. Because it's a 2/3 years time jump, so the first episode is probably going to be them chilling in Hawkins and at the end, BOOM, Vecna's back bitch. And there he could have the opportunity to kill some people, but truth is... no one will die. They're all going to be saved, because they're all geniuses. But it could be a huge dramatic scene anyway. Or maybe if someone HAS to die, it'd be logic if it was either Karen, either Ted, or either Holl- nah just kidding. If one of the parents die, it could create a trauma for Mike, but that's for again, an other theory.

So what's next for Vecna? Honestly, if the Dragon we got foreshadowed since season 1 happens... I think Vecna's role won't be really interesting, so I keep my s5 vision without any Dragon. But I do see him trying to kill, so target, a lot of our characters...

That wasn't the best of my theories though. But, more theories soon, some better and cooler, but as for now, tell me what you think about this one, in the comments or as reblogs!

Thanks for reading all that by the way <3

...I probably am going to add more in this post, if I think about it, but I think I said everything I have to say...

[henrysglock]

Okay, so I was browsing r/HawkinsAV and noticed something Funny.

Here, in his Good Boy Pose, is Henry (001):

As opposed to Bad Guy Pose...001?

So you mean to tell me...it's different? They're different?

Why is the "Good Boy" pose listed as both Henry and 001, but the "Bad Guy" pose is solely listed as 001? And if they're clearly more than willing to go the Henry/001 naming route...why not do it right off the bat?

You could say "oh when he was in the Bad Guy Pose El only knew him as One so that's what they put on the box", but in the Good Boy Pose...she only knew him as "Friendly Orderly", as far as we know. Why tack on a name she doesn't know until after NINA is over?

Why change the name at all?

And, if they're planning on consolidating Henry = One = Vecna, then why not link him to the new Vecna pop?

Why not go the route the show went: Henry/Vecna/001? Why just Vecna? It very much makes me think of my "Vecna could be a corpse puppet" theory.

Anyway...much to think about. I admittedly know very little about the inner workings of Funko.

[reikunrei]

If Vecna is Brenner and Brenner is behind everything, henward is completely innocent, then what's the point of henward's character(s)? Doesn't that make him more of a plot device than a character at this point? Just someone there to be abused and then be merged with the true big bag for some reason and drive the plot forward, with 0 agency of his own

This is by no means hate to your theory, it makes a lot of sense, I'm just not enjoying where they seem to be taking this, all this importance given to vecna and henry, only for them to turn out to be complete puppets to Brenner. it's fun in a sci fi way I guess, but from a narrative/character development standpoint? I don't like it at all

I'm definitely not to one to come to for in-depth questions/concerns like this so I recommend checking out @henrysglock and @aemiron-main who have both spoken extensively about Brenner being the "real" big bad and what that does for Henward as a character, so if you haven't read their posts, I recommend going spelunking over there.

However, the whole point then of Henward's character, at least in this conversation, is that he has this ability that Brenner doesn't. Without Henward, Brenner wouldn't be able to be the biggest bad there ever was, so to speak. Speaking directly to that Time Lord/Two Hearts post I made, basically what I'm saying is that there's a possibility that Brenner became Vecna, but he was only able to do that because of Henward and his powers/altered blood, which may even still be specific to him and not to any of the other kids that were "made" using "Henry" and his blood. I'd say that makes Henward pretty damn important to the story and not just someone to be abused.

(Which this gets into an interesting conversation that I left out of that post because it would have sent me on another rambling tangent, where there are several times where Time Lords are made but they're not "true" Time Lords. Like, there's a whole episode in season 3 I think? Where the Doctor has a daughter named Jenny who was made from him but isn't a true Time Lord/has some of their abilities but not all of them/not exactly the same).

Everything that's happened in the series is because of Henward, even if it wasn't his choice through and through. He can be a character and a plot device at the same time (I'd argue that all characters are plot devices anyway but w/e). I mean, the guy's been haunting the narrative and driving the story this whole time.

Also, Henward very much does have agency of his own. After all, "Henry" did still choose to kill Virginia/allow the Shadow to kill her. And ultimately, then continuing off of my thoughts I posited in that post and what James and Em have spoken about before, Henward also has agency in what he's doing to help our protagonists. James is cooking up some posts about that right now, so stay tuned for that, but Henward isn't just sitting there. He's actively fighting against the Shadow in TFS and, most likely, is actively fighting against Vecna, the hive mind, and the MF by giving our protagonists information (ie. the lights in st1 most definitely barely being Will, but some of them being helpful enough that it has to be someone on the inside trying to help).

As for your personal feelings on it, I can't speak to that! You're fair to have those feelings/not like that direction, but I'm just working with what the show is giving me and what my friends have also noticed throughout the show. Will it happen exactly like I said in my post? Likely not! It's just something that gives me pause and makes me look at everything and go.... huh... that's interesting.