#vanessa carlysle

[velvet4510]

A Very-Long Untangling Analysis of the Fox X-Men Continuity

Here’s my attempt at making sense of it all. All of my thoughts and ideas about continuity discrepancies and time travel piled up in one big info dump.

Please bear in mind that this interpretation is heavily biased in favor of the Days of Future Past Rogue Cut and against Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix, which hopefully won’t cause too much upset.

It also mentions Cherik as if it’s official canon because duh.

It also will cite links to various other posts I’ve made in the past which support my claims.

It also is gonna get long. Very long. Very very very very long. So proceed at your own risk.

So here’s my thesis:

The series depicts 8 separate timelines within 3 different universes.

UNIVERSE 1

Timeline 1: First Class (Charles & Erik are lovers in 1962; Moira recalls some events) ➡️ Origins: Wolverine ➡️ X-Men ➡️ X2 ➡️ The Last Stand ➡️ The Wolverine ➡️ Days of Future Past Rogue Cut dark future

Timeline 2 (divergence of Timeline 1): First Class (Charles & Erik are lovers in 1962; Moira recalls some events) ➡️ Days of Future Past Rogue Cut 1973 events ➡️ Erik remains true to himself in the aftermath ➡️ Days of Future Past new 2023 with history-teacher Logan

UNIVERSE 2

Timeline 3: Events similar to the OG trilogy ➡️ Deadpool ➡️ Deadpool 2 Original Events (Russell becomes a killer) ➡️ Logan ➡️ The New Mutants ➡️ Cable’s family dies ➡️ Laura gets pruned

Timeline 4 (divergence of Timeline 3): Deadpool ➡️ Deadpool 2 main events (Cable time-travels, Vanessa dies, Wade stops Russell and dies)

Timeline 5 (divergence of Timeline 4): Deadpool ➡️ Deadpool 2 climactic time-travel (Cable saves Wade)

Timeline 6 (divergence of Timeline 3): Deadpool ➡️ Deadpool 2 post-credits scene (Wade saves Vanessa) ➡️ Deadpool & Wolverine

UNIVERSE 3

Timeline 7: First Class (Charles & Erik remain just friends; Moira recalls nothing) ➡️ Events similar to OG trilogy ➡️ DOFP Theatrical Cut dark future

Timeline 8 (divergence of Timeline 7): First Class (Charles & Erik remain just friends; Moira recalls nothing) ➡️ DOFP Theatrical Cut 1973 events ➡️ Erik betrays his values and settles down with Magda ➡️ Apocalypse (part or all dream) ➡️ Dark Phoenix (dream)

Now I will elaborate.

TIMELINES VS UNIVERSES

First off, “timelines” and “universes” are confusing terms in Marvel. Some say they’re the same thing, others say they’re separate things. But I believe the ultimate answer to this question can be found in What If…? Season 1 Episode 4, in which the Ancient One creates a split that forms two timelines (and thus two variants of Dr. Strange) in one universe. Since this is canonically possible, I think it explains many of the X-Men series’ discrepancies.

THEY CANNOT ALL BE IN 1 UNIVERSE

Secondly, I’m sorry to Deadpool & Wolverine, but there is absolutely no way that every film in the Fox series takes place in the same universe. There are way too many inconsistencies for that to be possible. I know such a notion takes away a bit from the impact of Wade and Logan’s efforts to save that universe, and Logan replacing the anchor being, but still. It just doesn’t add up. The film’s events are direct follow-ups to DP 1 and 2, and to Logan. Wade’s universe is dying because of Logan’s death in Logan. OK, so those 4 films happen in the same universe for sure. But none of the other films do.

DIFFERENT TIME TRAVEL RULES

One major reason there are multiple universes at play here is that the series depicts two different kinds of time travel that have two different repercussions:

Kitty Pryde’s consciousness projection, which rewrites history

Cable’s device, which causes timeline branching and universe-hopping (just like MCU quantum time travel)

So Logan’s time travel in DOFP overwrote/erased his original timeline (the events of Origins, the OG trilogy, and The Wolverine) … whereas Cable’s time travel in DP 2 split his universe into multiple timelines. (This is proven by the fact that even though Wade lives in a timeline where Vanessa is alive in DP&W, the universe is still dying because of the events of Logan. So none of Cable’s time traveling in DP 2 overwrote/erased Logan.)

These are two different rules of time travel, which makes it all the more likely that they happen in different universes.

Therefore, any universe in which Logan time-traveled to stop the Sentinels is NOT the same universe as the DP/Logan universe.

OTHER CONTINUITY ISSUES

Wade is in his 30s in Origins, which is set in 1979 … and Wade is in his 30s in the DP films, which is set in the 2010s.

Warren Worthington III is 12 years old in 1996 at the beginning of The Last Stand and a young adult during the main events in the 2000s … and he is a young adult in 1983 in Apocalypse.

Colossus has an American accent in the OG trilogy and a Russian accent in the DP films.

Mutant children are seen thriving in 2023 at the end of DOFP, whereas in the world of Logan, mutants stopped being born in 2004.

Which brings me to one of my most major arguments here:

THE CONSEQUENCES OF LOGAN’S TIME TRAVEL

Logan’s time-travel in DOFP only changed history starting in 1973; everything that came before 1973 stayed exactly the same in that universe. So we cannot possibly say that DOFP caused Wade to be born decades later or Warren to be born decades earlier in its new timeline. That is impossible.

Also, the children at the end of DOFP are irrefutable proof that Logan did not wake up in a world where mutants have been dying out since 2004 and where he and Charles are destined to be killed by X-24. That is impossible.

Therefore, neither Apocalypse nor the DP films nor Logan can possibly take place in Universe 1 (the same universe as the OG trilogy or Origins).

WHAT ABOUT THE DISCREPANCIES IN FIRST CLASS?

DOFP firmly establishes that despite the continuity errors, First Class is absolutely a prequel to the OG trilogy and occurs in the same universe. In this post, I lay out in detail how the few plot holes between these films may be logically explained.

THE X-MEN’S CAMEO IN DEADPOOL 2

All I can say is this is obviously a meta joke created in Wade’s head for the audience. In no possible version of events do the ages of the X-Men in their brief cameo in this movie make any sense.

UNIVERSE 1 vs. UNIVERSE 2

Ok, so now we’ve firmly established that:

Universe 1 consists only of FC, Origins, the OG trilogy, Wolverine, and DOFP. Its history is fully rewritten starting in 1973, so in both versions of history, Wade Wilson is always born in the 1940s and thus in his 30s in 1979 … and Warren Worthington III is always born in the 1980s and thus a child in the 90s and adult in the 2000s. Colossus emigrates from Russia to the U.S. at an early age and grows up with an American accent.

Universe 2 consists only of DP 1, DP 2, Logan, and DP&W. There was no time-travel in this world, and yet no Sentinels were created. Instead, Transigen put mutation-killing poisoning in food, which drove mutants to near-extinction by 2029. This makes 14-year-old Russell in DP 2 one of the last mutants to be born before the poisoning took effect. Cable’s and Wade’s time-traveling created multiple branches, but they all coexist in this universe. Wade Wilson was born in the 1970s, and thus he’s a thirty-something in the 2010s. Colossus grew up in Russia and thus maintained a Russian accent. After escaping the Void, Laura relocated from her original timeline (Timeline 3) to Timeline 6, while staying in the same universe.

THE DIFFERENT CUTS OF DAYS OF FUTURE PAST

But wait, you may say. DOFP and Apocalypse also must exist in the same universe since Apocalypse is a direct sequel to the 1973 events of DOFP. So doesn’t Apocalypse have to happen in Universe 1, as well?

Well, here’s the explanation for that:

Consider the existence of two different cuts of DOFP: the theatrical cut and the Rogue Cut.

Also consider the alternate ending filmed for DOFP, in which Logan is pulled from the river in 1973 by the real Stryker, a perfect lead-in to him being Weapon X in Apocalypse … whereas the actual DOFP ending shows Raven rescuing him that day, which changed his fate and kept him out of Stryker’s hands.

If you go beyond the meta and think about the multiverse, it becomes extremely plausible to assume that there was more than one universe in which Logan time-traveled via Kitty to stop the Sentinels.

In one of these universes (which I’ve labeled Universe 1 out of my preference for the Rogue Cut), within the dark future, Kitty’s wounds forced Erik, Charles, and Bobby to rescue Rogue to replace her, Bobby was killed, the mansion was blown up, Rogue took over Kitty’s job, and Kitty pulled Erik through the wall back into the temple when the Sentinels attacked him. Meanwhile in the past, Raven chose to stop by the mansion, steal a moment with Hank, and break Cerebro on her way to DC. After DC, she went undercover as Stryker, rescued Logan from the river, and most likely sent him to safety at the mansion with Charles and Hank.

In the other universe (which I’ve labeled Universe 3), Kitty kept Logan in the past through to the end, Bobby stayed and died in the temple, and Blink sent Erik back into the temple with a portal. Meanwhile in the past, Raven flew directly from Paris to DC and Charles used Cerebro to deduce her destination. After DC, Raven went her own way, and Stryker himself pulled Logan from the river and turned him into Weapon X.

APOCALYPSE AND DARK PHOENIX AS MERE BAD DREAMS

Now you’ll also notice I wrote the word “dream” next to Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix in my outline of Universe 3. And here’s where the bias comes in. Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix make so little sense that, as I also mentioned in this post, I declare they are no more than bad dreams in Erik’s and Charles’ heads at some point after 1973 in Universe 3.

Dark Phoenix in particular, just unfolds like a dream. None of the characters’ actions make any logical sense based on what we know about them. It all just feels like Charles’ worst nightmare of being suddenly abandoned and betrayed by everyone he loves, via either death or rejection … because IT IS.

Apocalypse is more complicated. It’s not as bad as Dark Phoenix but it’s also pretty darn stupid in many ways.

I laid out in great detail in this post why Erik’s family plotline makes zero sense for his character, Cherik or no Cherik. This is why I wrote that in Universe 1, Erik “remains true to himself in the aftermath of DOFP.” This fic and this fic and this fic (none of which are mine) are examples of in-character behavior for Erik which I imagine resemble his post-DOFP actions in that reality.

I also feel it doesn’t make any sense that Peter isn’t already a student at the school in 1983. There’s literally no reason why Charles wouldn’t have sought him out as his first student when he reopened the school in 1973, after the events of DOFP. It’s totally implausible that it would take 10 years for Peter to get involved with the X-Men again.

The abomination that is the fridging of Magda and Nina speaks for itself.

The abomination that is Peter not telling Erik they’re related at the most opportune moment also speaks for itself.

So this movie might be entirely a dream as well; I’d be fine with that.

APOCALYPSE AS PARTIALLY A DREAM

However, I included Apocalypse in Universe 3 as possibly “part dream” for a few reasons.

Despite the film’s stupidity, I expressed in this post the missed opportunity that is Nina Gurzsky. And in this post and this post, I expressed my fondness for a version of events where Nina survived and grew up thriving at the school with her siblings. Nina’s very existence stems from Erik behaving totally OOC after DOFP … and yet I can’t help but love her as her own character. If the writers were gonna make Erik behave in an OOC way for her to exist, then they should’ve gone all the way in letting her actually be a damn character.

I also expressed in this post how Erik settling down with someone who isn’t Charles makes very little sense if they got together during First Class. It could be somewhat more plausible if this is a version of events where they did NOT get together then.

I also mentioned in this post the inconsistency of Moira’s memories at the end of First Class and in Apocalypse. This could only be fixed by there being two different versions of events: one where Charles only erased some of her memories, and one where he erased all of them.

Which is why I labeled Universe 3 as containing “First Class (Charles & Erik remain just friends; Moira recalls nothing)” and “Erik betrays his values and settles down with Magda.”

It also could be that in Universe 3, the deleted scenes between Charles and Moira in First Class canonically happened, thus explaining his fixation on her in Apocalypse. In 1962, Charles & Erik remained on a river in Egypt, and Charles was with Moira. Thus in the 1970s, Erik finds himself capable of settling down with a random woman (even though my other reasons for this making no sense still stand, but for the sake of allowing for a world where Nina lives, I’ll let it go just for that).

NINA’S “DEATH”

Therefore, it’s somewhat possible that in Universe 3, the first third of Apocalypse is real, leading up to the moment Erik agrees to surrender himself to the Polish police.

From Nina’s death onward, the rest of the film is a nightmare of Erik’s, in which his mind envisions that he lost his beloved daughter that day and then was coerced by En Sabah Nur into becoming a mass murderer and hurting Charles and he never learned the truth about Peter.

If you think about it, Nina’s death scene in the film actually plays out like a nightmare would. Notice how even though she’s crying and screaming for her dad, she doesn’t move. She doesn’t struggle to pull away from her mom and run toward her dad. When her mom kneels in front of her, she doesn’t resist. No 8-year-old kid would be standing totally still in this situation, without flinching. Also Erik doesn’t make any more efforts to comfort her as she’s crying. He just silently stares at her, watching her scream, then silently stares at the attacking birds. Nor does Magda do anything effective; her words translate to “stop, Nina, stop!” No “we’ll be ok,” “he’s not gonna get hurt,” nothing that would actually calm Nina down. Then of course, the arrow hitting TWO people when the dude ISN’T EVEN LOOKING defies all logic and all reality. The whole thing only makes sense as Erik’s nightmare. We’ve all had those bad dreams where we want to move but we can’t, we’re frozen and unable to do what we want to do as something scary is coming at us. That’s exactly how Erik, Magda, and Nina all behave in this scene.

In reality, when Erik gave himself up in Universe 3, basically, the events of this fic unfolded. This isn’t my own fic, all credit belongs to its author WaxRhapsodic, but it is so unbelievably great that I declare it’s what really happened in this world.

To summarize, Nina was injured but not killed by the arrow that killed Magda, then Erik & Nina moved to the mansion where Peter saved them along with the others from the explosion, Erik joined the mission to rescue Charles, Colossus became the fourth Horseman instead before defecting to the X-Men, En Sabah Nur was killed, Charles’ spine was healed and his powers expanded by his meld with En Sabah Nur, Erik & Nina learned of Peter and Wanda and Lorna’s connections to them, Raven & Kurt learned of their own relationship, Erik & Charles realized for the first time that they were in love, destroying Moira’s chances with Charles, and their enhanced mental bond created David as their son, with Wanda magically creating a body for David.

THE OG TRILOGY AND LOGAN

Lastly, you may notice I also put “events similar to the OG trilogy” in my outline of Universe 2. Why did I do this?

There are many hints in Logan that something similar to the OG trilogy happened in that world.

Charles references the Statue of Liberty incident from X-Men 1, which never happened in a world where Logan time-traveled.

In a deleted scene, Charles claims Logan was married to Jean before he killed her. This could be true or it could be Charles’ confusion in his dementia.

Jean’s absence from the story is glaring: considering her power level, it is quite unlikely that Charles could’ve killed her in the Westchester Incident.

Thus, in this world, the events of the OG trilogy including The Last Stand must have happened. But instead of Sentinels, humans weaponized the anti-mutant food poisoning to wipe out mutants once the cure proved to be a failure. So by the time of the Westchester Incident, Jean was already dead.

This explains Charles’ condition in Logan. His disease is not the result of mere old age. It is a result of 3 things:

The impact of the food poisoning on his mutation as well as his overall health.

His mind struggling to remain in harmony with his twin brother’s body which he inhabited in the post-credits scene of The Last Stand after the Phoenix destroyed his original body. (In Universe 1, the Sentinel apocalypse unfolded before the negative longterm side effects of his consciousness transference could take hold.)

Erik’s absence, which can only be explained by his death prior to the film’s events. In this post and this post, I theorize in more depth that his sudden death was the final straw for Charles’ mental health that triggered the Westchester Incident.

[deadclawdd]

hi gang ! a bit different style of post today but i need some help and encouragement on writing.

i’ve had a few ideas recently and decided to throw them into a poll. i’ll end up doing all of them eventually but this is just what’s going first!

[chiljax]

i just KNOW vanessa ships poolverine

[mischievous-thunder]

Justice for poor little Jimmy bear!

[simping-on-the-daily]

i will make this a thing by sheer fucking willpower if i have too

[banneriscarried]

Okay but hear me out

Logan sees the way Wade looks at Vanessa and immediately starts trying to help Wade get back together with her. Cute and sweet bro stuff, right?

But, consider: Vanessa seeing the way Wade looks at Logan and immediately trying to help Wade hook up with him.

Both of these coexisting at the exact same time, so Wade is being wing(wo)manned by the two people he’s being encouraged to flirt with.

[kirkenovak]

[resident-idiot-simp]

Laura who has decided Wade is her other new dad and just not telling him. She just starts treating him like another father and listens to him like one. But she never outright tells him and Wade is freaking out over it.

Logan had figured it out and Al was the one who told Laura not to say anything.

Wade is just not coping because he's always wanted a kid and he doesn't want to believe that that's what he's managed to do. That would be assuming her intentions and he would never. He would never put himself in a role that she didn't want him in.

But he could read the situation and he's about to climb the walls meanwhile Laura is just thriving and everyone else is trying not to laugh at them. Vanessa congratulates him one day and Wade looks like he might actually just combust on the spot.

[jane-morgendorffer]

State of affairs after Deadpool & Wolverine

[wwwpoolverinecom]

Vanessa is the no. 1 Poolverine shipper, everyone else is second. Wade is such an important part of her life and vice versa. They formed a trauma bond as survivors of child sexual abuse and she stayed with him through his cancer treatment, hoping for him when he had lost all hope. She just wants to see Wade happy, and she can see that's with Logan.

[oldmancyberpunk]

[cbartonscoffee]

There's nothing heterosexual about the way in which Logan and Wade are seated next to each other in that final scene. I'm sorry, but you two are in a relationship. I think Vanessa was the most flabbergasted person on Earth when his ex, who appears to have moved in with his new boyfriend, turns around and tells her he's saved the world because of her.

[sugashook]

wade why are you so shy (if we look very closely does he have a type)

[icarusredwings]

Worst wolverine, who can now barley break the fourth wall: You know.. what's weird about being married to a man gayer then a box of peacocks is that sometimes he's so straight that it's concerning. I mean look at him. Straight as hell.

Wade: *behaving himself, all cuddled up to Vanessa*

Worst wolverine: Like thats my husband. MY. Husband. But Ness comes over and suddenly he's not my husband anymore :"( That's a straight man.

Wade: Oi dont call me that! Thats Derogatory! And pan erasure-

Vanessa: ...Why is he talking to that wall?

Wade: He's pouting to the reader. Slandering my name that im ignoring him.

Vanessa: Is he okay?

Wade: Eh he probably just wants attention. Domestic wolverines are very handler oriented. *sighs* Wolvie come're. Come cuddle with us!

Logan: *still pouting* No! You're not my husband anymore! I dont even know you! *runs away fake crying*

Wade: What!? Since when were you this dramatic!?

[isthemedia]

Mini idea I may draw or write sometime.

Wade has his “days” where he just sorta is hunkered under the blankets. Doesn’t come out or anything. It’s a combination of his cancer, that his brain won’t shut-up, and just everything feels like static.

Vanessa explains to Logan that he’s not necessarily irritable like this, just he doesn’t really want do much. She also shows that there’s the “yoink area”-demonstrating it by setting some snacks in said area for Wade to just snatch and bring under the blankets.

Logan gets use to this and feels like it’s the least he can do since Wade is always ready to help when he has to deal with his nightmares.

Insert one time, Logan sitting on said bed during one of those moods. Vanessa and Laura over talking and to check on Wade. Only for Logan to lean back juuuust enough into yoinking range-

And with no hesitation Wade tries to drag him under.

Laura and Vanessa cracking up at it cause it happened so fast and a quick “I forgot!” from Logan as he pulled under.

[blackbyakko]

In Defense of Vanessa

All of the peeps hating on Vanessa and Wade ‘a relationship in Deadpool 3 need to expand their imaginations a bit lol.

Do you think Vanessa, the woman who fought so so hard to keep Wades spirits up when he got his cancer diagnosis, whose after fucking DYING in the second film told him that he had to continue on living and supported him to live a good life despite her not being in it, and upon seeing Wade after he ghosted her and then showed back up looking SOOOOO fugly (he’s adorably fugly) and her first reaction was to look lovingly into this man’s eyes and say “That is a face that I’d be happy to sit on”, would just simply LEAVE him? Just like that???

Y’all, I think we saw a different film lol.

Almost everyone in Wade’s life, has either belittled him, or have actively shown their distaste for him known at some point (Peter, Yukio, and Dopender my beloveds, we’re not talking about you). Vanessa from the get-go, matched Wade’s freak. When we saw Wade’s flashback of their break up, Vanessa never said that she wanted to break up with him. We heard HIM Say that if she wanted to leave him to get it over with already. One of Wades biggest character flaws throughout the film has been that he pushes people away through humor and through insults because he is terrified of being vulnerable with them. Vanessa is the only person throughout the films that, even when he’s hurt, he lets himself be vulnerable around her, even post break up. Vanessa didn’t want to leave him, she wanted him to be a better version of himself, because he was wallowing, and not allowing himself to look beyond his insecurities.

Sometimes, doing things for ourselves, for the sake of bettering ourselves is not enough motivation. Wade was not willing to pick himself up and try to live up to his potential until Vanessa encouraged him to. I don’t think she cared if he ever became an avenger or not, but what she cared about was that he had all this potential and no direction and she could see how it was eating him up inside. Why is everyone else in Wade’s life around allowed to rude to him and tell him straight up he’s being a fuckhead, but Vanessa telling him he needs to pick himself up when he takes a knee or asking him to let her walk with him, and when he refuses to do so, wnd gives him some distance when HE PUSHED HER AWAY, makes her the bad guy. You could tell it hurt her when he asked if she was seeing anyone. And that handhold? She absolutely took him back lol. And that’s good! Deadpool is not someone who would sacrifice a loved one to save the world, he would sacrifice the world to save a loved one. And Vanessa is the same, being ride or die from the beginning, and I will not hear her name besmirched.

Also are you really going to tell me that she saw fucking WOLVERINE and didn’t turn to her man and say, “We’re tag teaming him right?” Or that she saw a free child in X23 and didn’t turn to Wade and say “We wanted a kid, so we’re adopting her right?”

Use your imagination people lol. Vanessa would be the first person to drag Wolverine and X23 into their family. She gets a hot new husband and a kid, Wolverine gets a hot new wife and a husband, and X23 gets a new mom and two dads. Everyone wins!