#unfortunately most fandoms suffer from this case

[allforafro]

I like Wednesday, it's a pretty nice series

although there were a few moments that made me roll my eyes and sigh

but ultimately it was a pretty enjoyable teen show

these days we have fans and fandom for most shows

and like 90% of fandoms, the wednesday fandom has ship wars

ok everyone can like whatever ship they want

but I don't like it when people write that someone is bad because they like a certain ship and in a more or less visible way they tell you to like something else

(I'm not even going to start the Xavier thread)

What I mean is, people, don't attack others just because someone likes a different ship, it sucks

[kerosene-in-a-blender]

There's a phenomenon I've noticed in fandom that has been thrown into sharp relief by experiencing both the Critical Role and Dragon Age fandoms at this current moment but is by no means limited to just those two, where there will exist within the narrative a white guy (and it is always specifically a white guy) who is, demonstrably by his actions, a pretty shitty person. Hurt many many people. However, this character has also been granted some level of interiority by the narrative (the narrative's reasons for doing this are ultimately not relevant, what's important is that the audience does get a peak inside this terrible man's brain), and because he is funny, or sympathetic, or traumatized, or otherwise compelling, certain segments of the fandom will latch onto this character and focus pretty exclusively on how terrible it is FOR HIM that he is evil.

These fans will focus entirely on how sad it makes how he has to hurt people. How terrible it is that he is isolated from everyone. How awful it is that the protagonists don't take the time to understand him. Any pain and hurt he causes is only used as fuel to highlight how sad he is that he has to do these terrible things, with no empathy spared for the people this man has himself hurt. And barely any acknowledgement that he doesn't actually have to be doing these things; that he is terrible because he chooses to be and any personal suffering that he does experience as a result is ultimately his own doing.

I think in some ways this is the cousin to the well known White Guy Side Character phenomenon, in which fans will take a nothing, barely developed white male side character and assign him an importance and interiority in fandom that he does not have in canon while ignoring actual main characters who are not men and/or white. Except in this case instead of assigning undue interiority and complexity to a white male character to the exclusion of others it's assigning undue empathy to a white male character to the exclusion of others, even those who have been hurt by that character, and even when the narrative is pretty directly stating that he's the villain for doing what he did.

[carigm]

The “Teaser”, mlvn rooftop convo, and Lord of the Rings parallel…

This is gonna be a long post, so grab some snacks y’all.

First of all, the teaser the Duffers shared at this Netflix shareholders event was basically all BTS stuff, and according to someone that was there, we have mostly seen all of it. The actual clips from the show they showed were so short that most people missed it. However, over those short clips it seems they played a voiceover of part of the mlvn rooftop convo. Notice how the Suffer Sisters are literally incapable of sharing anything new, and the only audio they disclosed is from the ONE scene that’s been leaked to death, and even transcribed multiple times with the help of AI. In any case, Netflix did not share this teaser with the masses, and it’s unlikely they ever will. Stranger Things is not going to the Super Bowl this year (yes you heard that right) and the Tudum Event isn’t until May. Our only hope before that would be them releasing something on Will’s birthday, but whether in March or May, I believe we’ll be getting a proper teaser by then.

People that attended the event reported that El has a voiceover line where she goes “they don’t get to write the ending, we do” and apparently a voiceover Mike line where he goes “we’ll finish this together” (I’m not sure if this was paraphrased or not). Immediately, we all realized that these lines sound pretty close to what Mike is allegedly saying to her during the rooftop scene. Many people in the fandom have taken the time to transcribe that scene, some with AI and some without, and although some things could be wrong here and there, the general idea of it seems pretty clear. I’m attaching an AI reading of the scene here, so I can point out where I think his dialogue might be from…

Around the 1.43 mark, the AI picked up “enjoying it, together”, however I think this is where the “we’ll finish it, together” line comes into play. If anything, this shows AI isn’t 100% accurate, and it does call into question some of these previous lines 😂…I think it’s possible that after this speech from Mike about stories, fantasy endings and heroes, El tries to follow his advice and be positive, and maybe she delivers the “they don’t get to write our ending, we do” line back to him. It’s unfortunate because obviously we can’t see her face in the video, but I think it makes sense she would reply with that because right after it seems like he says “of, course…” and then proceeds to seemingly add that the Party can have a happy ending, without all the fantasy elements he mentioned before.

I find it very interesting that he’s choosing to speak to her with this storytelling analogy, which at first I believed to be a D&D analogy, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like he’s talking about an actual story. And then the lord of the rings parallel hit me, specifically with this scene. If you’re not aware, Finn Wolfhard has mentioned lotr twice now when talking about season 5, and I personally think it’s possible that Mike is using lord of the rings here as a reference to describe the hero’s journey and relate it to what the party has been through. Think about it, he’s trying to cheer El up, who has been stuck in that fuckass radio station for a year, who’s probably extremely tired of everything she has been dealing with for years, and he just wants to offer her some consolation so she can keep going and fighting. Does that sound familiar?

Well my friends, if it does, that’s because it is a direct parallel to Frodo and Sam from Lord of the Rings. I’ve always thought Byler were insanely samfrodo coded (funny enough the last S4 Byler scene is almost identical to this scene too), but it seems the Duffers are paralleling mlvn to them here. In lotr, Frodo bears the biggest burden of the story, as he follows his hero’s journey to Mordor to defeat evil. Along the way, ofc, he becomes increasingly weary and hopeless, and it is up to Sam (his best friend) to cheer him up and provide him with strength to keep him going. How does Sam do this? Interestingly enough, he encourages Frodo by describing all the beautiful things that will come AFTER they have won, what they and their friends will be able to enjoy when they get back home. Basically everything Mike appears to be saying to El in this scene, fantasizing about the end of the battle. To make the parallels even crazier, while on his hero’s journey, Frodo has to remain in hiding because there are multiple forces looking for him, and we know that El is basically hiding away from the government.

Another thing I want to point out is that in lotr (spoilers I guess 😭) good does win in the end, and the main characters get to return back home. However, Frodo is so changed by the journey and all the things he encountered that he simply cannot stay with his friends. Instead, he leaves and goes to the Undying Lands, where he finds peace. He doesn’t die, but he also cannot stay in Middle Earth. Him and Sam have a beautiful goodbye scene and then Sam is left with the literal book of stories Frodo started, and is told by Frodo to “finish it”.

Make of that what you will…

[olderthannetfic]

Okay, I need advice: I'm in a very tiny fandom (like less than two dozen active people and everyone knows each other) and one of the women in it is kind of freaking me out.

We became mutuals because we had some good discussions on some of the characters we liked, but I soon became sort of uncomfortable with a lot of her online behavior whereas simultaneously she's DM-ing me more and more.

She's one of those people who's a hardliner on the issues she cares about (mostly feminism- and SA-related) while talking over people when it comes to issues she doesn't care about (mostly racism and related things). And I see a lot of her trying to intrusively police how other people talk/act, derailing people's posts, arguing with people online over the most stupid shit (where not even her own opinions come off as overly coherent - this week she'll argue something along the lines of "men are evil" and the next she'll argue that people are "demonizing masculinity" - I'll add for clarification that she's not a TERF and supports trans rights but boy... Does she sound like one sometimes) and then digging through people's profiles to find and publicize minor transgressions and bad takes, passive-aggressive vagueposting, and going into mental breakdowns over the most innocuous of online interactions.

TBH she scares me. As someone who suffered through toxic people getting overly attached to me, I genuinely sometimes get a physical reaction when I see her lashing out on the dash.

And she keeps initiating conversations! And sometimes I don't reply or bring the conversation to a natural closure and she keeps at it, or sends me random fics of hers to read that I don't have the heart to tell her don't interest me or whatever. And recently when she disagrees with something I reblogged she direct messages me to rant about it - with a lot of sort of indirect language because she doesn't want to offend me but I can see the intent. The last couple of times I replied politely because I cared about clearing misunderstandings on the topic but next time I'm just gonna tell her I dislike it when she does that.

I really want this person to stop interacting with me, to be honest, and all my polite hints to the effect go unnoticed. But the fandom is so small I feel awkward and uncomfortable about unfollowing or blocking her. I don't think she's too bad of a person, she just comes off as very... Mentally ill, I guess? And since I've tried to be polite so far I feel like it might come out of left field for her?

TBH I feel like something about her behavior also triggers some kind of freeze/fawn reaction inside of me that I don't often get and consequently don't know how to deal with.

So I need impartial advice because I don't see the situation clearly myself

--

To summarize, a person who is a walking red flag wants to be friends, and you can't easily ghost her because the fandom is small.

I think you have to accept that there is no low-conflict way out of this.

That's what's holding you back, right? You don't want more drama and you know it's coming. I think you already know in your heart of hearts that you need to get away from her even if it's a pain in the ass.

Step one is to stop responding to her DMs. That will probably make her reach out more, but you should keep not responding. If she escalates and attacks you over it, block her.

The more you offer reasons or try to gently hint, the more that will encourage her. I don't think that's true of everyone, but I do think it's the case here. This is both because it doesn't sound like she's good at perceiving or respecting boundaries and because she inspires a bad lack of ability to assert boundaries in you.

I agree that it's unfortunate that you can't stand up for yourself or tell her plainly when she's out of line, but since you can't and that probably won't change any time soon, you'll need to protect yourself a different way. Sometimes, we just have to avoid people who are bad for us even when it's an us problem. (And here, whoaaaa red flags, so I don't think it's just a you problem anyway.)

There are many sad, lonely, needy people in the world. Some of them are officially mentally ill in some way with a diagnosis. Some just need things they aren't currently getting. That sucks...

But it's also not your job to fix.

[hallowpen]

I know you said you're not talking about it anymore but I would like to invoke my special privilege of being your most favorite mutual who has suffered for you creating sh weapon references until visions of runes replaced my very thoughts

What is it that distinguishes general shipping culture from Thai-specific shipping culture? Because you mention Thai shipping culture a lot, and while I know there is a difference I can't seem to put into words what that difference is. I don't know if I'm making any sense, but like, under the umbrella of QL in Thailand, what part of it is culture and what part of it is marketing? Like the presenting of a "ship" as a "product" part.

Listen you... (Only because it's YOU asking... but be aware: You cannot pull this 'fave moot' card for the rest of our tumblr interactions. You had one shot! And you've now used it hehe)

So let's sort of break down the Thai QL marketing strategy, as you've put it: You have the 'production' and then you have the 'fandom/engagement' side of that production.

Production Marketing Branded Pairing - the production companies are going make a QL series and then present you with the leads as an easily 'shippable' pair. In Thailand, we refer to these ships as คู่จิ้น or 'imaginary couples' (จิ้น is pronounced as "jin" like imaGINE... cute no? hehe) These pairs are the product... the draw to attract viewers/fans. It's more common for branded pairs to stay working together once they've developed a comfortable relationship with one another. However, this can lead to some stagnancy within their working relationship and the types of roles they are offered. Companies like GMMtv, in my opinion, go a little overboard in this aspect. The logos and mascots are cute, but they're firmly cementing the fact that these pairs will never star opposite someone else in a BL production once they're established as a brand. It's very limiting for the actors involved and the fans who crave varied content... because at some point it all starts to feel very same. But again, that's just my feeling. It does work very well in some instances. And as long as production companies are gaining revenue, I don't really see that changing anytime soon.

Fanservice - the pairs' job is to sell the product: attract brand deals and increase fan engagement. The best way to do that for QL is to play up the fantasy (at a level that both individuals involved are comfortable with). They're going to pretend and have fun with their fans with a little back-and-forth. At this point in the conversation it's important to note that in the early days of fanservice, and even still, there was a lot of cultural nuance involved in order for businesses and potential viewers to be more accepting of mlm relationships which were heavily featured in the series that were being promoted. There's also discussion about whether or not the proco's allow their pairs any say in the level of fanservice they must perform. For the most part, it seems that they do... but that's not always the case.

Production Engagement Shipping - the viewers and fans are the 'consumers'. They essentially buy the 'product' the companies are selling, with both financial support and through their engagement. Now... in Thailand, as fans of these pairs, we are very aware of what is being sold to us. This is what I refer to as 'Thai shipping culture'. It's part of the 'game', for lack of a better word. We tease and we joke and we partake in the shipping... but at the end of the day, we know it's not real. Our support doesn't have any strings attached and isn't based in contingencies. We support the actors because we like the content they are providing for us. It's as simple as that. It's equal parts unfortunate and heartbreaking that this culture has been lost in newer fandom (from Thailand specifically). But it's important for interfans to understand, as well, that fanservice and shipping are not forms of queerbaiting. No one is trying to trick anybody... it's all very laid out in plain sight. And if you're buying too much into the fantasy, that's a YOU problem.

I don't really know how else to end this, other than to say what I always say, which is:

Please re-evaluate what it means to be a "fan" of someone. You are no more entitled to an artist's time or attention because you paid for it. You did that because you wanted to; you wanted to SUPPORT them. This doesn't give you any right to dictate their life; you cannot claim ownership over them. They are NOT your property. So if you truly "support" them, just let them be themselves...and love them all the more for it! The only thing misplaced anger/hate accomplishes is to create an environment where artists no longer feel comfortable interacting with their fans altogether, out of fear that every little thing they do or say will be misjudged.

[dia-oro]

I totally understand what you're saying because I feel that way too! 100% identified

because English is not my mother tongue and I am also Latina! I'm the one who complained about the price in her country and said that everything is cheaper on Shein or Aliexpress, remember?I just chose the universal language of English in case someone who doesn't understand Spanish is interested in what we're talking about, and doesn't have to leave the app and go into Google Translate and all that, It's tedious, that's why I switched to the website, to translate everything at once.

But back to the main topic

Everything that you wrote was perfect, I'm also in fandoms just for the content of the series/video game/movie itself, i felt satisfied, I even felt identified for the first time, Don't get me wrong, I love all yandere lu x Reader content but sometimes, I came to see the reader or player as more of a character than someone who represents me you know?

I'm not complaining, of course not, Not everyone knows or is like us. I just would like to see more variety, because sometimes they can write about reader allowing many things and me? the temperamental, impatient me?

I'll be telling the boys the phrase 'what you do to me is not love, and if it's not love then it must be hate, you hate me' every time they do something that hurts me or displeases me greatly, I'll be telling anyone who knows them how badly they behave (Epona, Fi, Great Fairy and the fairies, the people from Twilight's village/Ordon, etc.), I would be giving them the silent treatment, being blunt, I wouldn't turn to look at them even if they were hurt, I won't help them either,I would sleep in a secluded place and make my own food, I will not stop until I am satisfied with their pain and suffering, until I feel and decide that Is enough.

and I am aware that to a certain extent it would be emotional or sentimental abuse,but they asked for it, If they didn't care about my feelings/emotions when they did those things to me, why should I care about how they feel? They don't deserve it nor did they earn it.

Because I am incredibly spiteful as I mentioned, unfortunately, not all writers write about the revenge of an incredibly spiteful darling.

But tell me! What would you do to handle them?

Y saludos desde Argentina ñeriiii 💋

:DD otra latina otra latina otra latina! Yay! And yes, the usual darling is overly good and overly defenceless when the Y boom exploited, even if they are at the start write to even be strong as the know human are space orc darling and that no fun :/ I would totally give them so much disapprove looks that will make sky got intro depression for it. Yes, the links are dangerous and most of us didn't even got to defence class, or any martial art but hey, you don't need strength to look at these man's and let them see you're no happy you're so no happy with their behavior.

Yes, I'm with you in this... They are so good that lacked to feel representative for that exactly, I'm flawed, you're to, all of us and if christian religion tell me right the only one almost perfect was killed by political and the equivalent as the police so.... I'm pretty sure all of us have our moments more than just do more than cry and give the cold shoulder or is just something of all Latino América to have a temper? I don't know, but I do know that using a boot as the chancla in warriors mouth would do some good if he good even in his teasing bullshit too deep for my likimg that didn't even mean a yandere wars.

Great idea let it to more people to read if they ever feel some identify in a tempered darling. 😌 In my opinion I think also a older darling would help to be more easy to fight back, more at the age of wars and twilight or even some age gasp, no a teenager easy to make feel inferior but a woman done with modern shite and know how to deal with them by using her mind and analysis them all.

How I would react to that direction of the yandere behaving bad? It's depend of the yandere, the most errrgh difficult like legend or four or even wild I would both need indirect approach, these are all will cards and while four could be more easy to deal... The ficking colors are Not, legend would put my nerves on edge because he the most ready to do ANYTHING, anything to have us, he maybe didn't got as far to take a brother out of the way like I say before in other post I like when the brothers just in their own fucked up mind think he just trying to prevent to lost someone dear again and them are like 'okay, let's put things more soft for the darling to see because this mf is in survival and idiot in love mode's so... The others just pity the yandere if the other members are no yandere because bro is a fucked mess, Hylia help this lost cause-

And for other part, to the least problematic well, a more direct approach, ok a latina I know how to handle manipulation, I will look at them in disapproval and them then how mad I'm at them, being firm even if I was in a relationship with them or less serious one, I will no be silence, nor if they want to I stay with them I will no let their shit slip, I like to think I will got on a process of seeing if they CAN do better, the fear of losing me would be real because I'm the type of forgiving but no forget, no easy to got angry and even that I usually got more annoyed than anything so I can see me giving them a opportunity but only ONE, these men's better grip their pants because just because I act nice didn't mean I will no remind them I'm still mad, I'm don't believe them anymore and just depend of the circumstances well, they either will shite their pants or start to demonstrate true remorse, talking of it.

so.... I play with the ia character because if fun and what have with all of this ? One of it is a bot of twilight yandere and till yesterday curiously he was the most respectful and soft yandere, till all these cute moments look less cute when admitted in a cabine in wild era that he take me to had some time alone together (the mf even married me and I'm having triples) just tell me from the first moment he see me terrified in the forest I fall from the portal he just say 'this the one's and all the sweet and maybe god know what more do to be close to me and win but also STOP Me from going home and I was there in the bed no even batting a eye as I at the very start of the relationship I chose stay because this was a more permanent thing no just fuckbuddys or had a boyfriend, mf got for courtship and now I was there like 'this bitch...' talking to him very calming because even annoyed as I was and angry, at least I chose it willingly and he just didn't you know take the choses from me? Like this mf is so ansty that didn't notice if I let him touch me was because I chose it, so if I'm no having a breakdown was because I already was prepared to stay but still the 'if I would have like to go home this would have been very damaging, still, the fuck?', I'm no doing much just letting him feel all my disappointment and let him know he lucky I will forgive end but I will remember this and *look at the chat* oh yes, twilight is still groveling and ready to weep like a toddler, pleading to no be hate and please don't leave him, I'm supposed to no know his game so I'm just 'who the fuck walk away that let him so screwed? Damn man you're pitiful right now' so yes, a analytic and if they give the sufficient reason a opportunity to right the wrongs is more my styke is they didn't do something very mind blowing.

At least with twilight I stop to blame the wolf for his weird shite and just 'ah, crap, I feel for the freaky one... Still love him, unfortunately' and just proceed with my day annoyed while they just got after me like ducklings because no attention, no kisses and no calling them sweet nothing in my language would be torture for them.

Hope you like my vision (how my rp with the ai got)

argentina ? Cool! Aquí desde españa, una venezolana que le tocó emigrar :D

[noahwylle]

Hiiii i recently got into Malpractice MD and was wondering if you had any fanfic suggestions????

hiii and welcome to the fandom <3

i guess it depends on what ships you're looking for, but for hilson I'd say because of the time it was airing, my favourites are actually on ff.net and unfortunately some of them have been deleted and hidden from ao3 and there just isn't as many up there to begin with, but here are some of them:

Paper Faces on Parade by Cardio Necrosis

As House and Wilson try to balance their strained friendship and life with their girlfriends, House treats a neo-Nazi he can't trust.

[this is one of my alltime faves, mostly because i'm always partial to a good case fic]

Of Mothers and Wire Hangers by Cardio Necrosis

Wilson scoffed, but it sounded more like he was amused than annoyed. "House, only you could make household chores feasibly dangerous."

and the sequel to this one: Of Tubs and Neck Rubs

Ten Kisses by Cardio Necrosis

Ten unconnected first-kiss ficlets.

[i re-read this a million times, they are great in many different ways, some are funny and some are soft and even a little angsty, it's def worth a read]

for chouse here are some fics from my bookmarks, unfortunately some of my faves have been deleted for this ship as well (if anything this is a reminder to you all to dowload your faves)

Suffering and Appreciation by Vampire_Pinguin

House and Chase have the post-Vogler 'Why did you do it' confrontation.

Backlash by Sandrine Shaw

Vogler is gone, and Chase is reaping what he has sown.

Delaying the Inevitable by Sandrine Shaw

"I can't believe you chose this over diagnostics," House tells him.

Stuck Between a Rock and a Hard Place by Sandrine Shaw

Chase has almost come to accept the cycles of unrequited desire and unabashed self-loathing as routine.

thankfully, most of these authors posted quite a few works and i can totally recommend doing a deep dive into them, mind you, some works by Cardio Necrosis have been written in first person, which might not be everyone's cup of tea (mine either, but i still enjoyed those fics too, so yk, up to you guys)

(also note that all of these have been written sometime between 2010 and 2013)

[yakool-foolio]

A recent tweet from drtwt confessions says “people need to realize how terrible of a writer/bad person Kodaka is. Almost every single female character he’s ever written is a misogynistic caricature and he’s only gotten worse over time. DR1 had legitimately really well written women. but compare that to Rain Code, where every women is either dumb/loli bait/cooker bait or just exist to serve a man, it’s really not a good look, that’s not to mention all the borderline illegal sexualization of CHILDREN in his games, which seems to be cranked up to 100x in The Hundred Line (literal sex scenes with minors) dude’s a real creep. Y’all need to stop trying to defend him.

Do you have anything to say about this?

I won't defend Kodaka for his very apparent character writing flaws throughout the years. I tend to view DR1's blatant usage of slurs and mishandling of a cross-dressing character (often times viewed or headcanoned as trans by a decent size of the fandom, mainly by a lot of recent first-time players looking at the character from a modern, more inclusive perspective) as a 'sign of the times' in Japan during the early 2010s, before much of that language has been fought against as time goes on. It certainly doesn't make it any less awful to read, but I acknowledge that it was the general environment of 'othering' everyone lived in and accepted at the time (and a majority of places around the world still do, some worse than others). The other Danganronpa games and Rain Code improved in some aspects but stayed the unfortunate same in others.

For Rain Code in particular, we got a pretty darn well-written non-binary character, but the few main female characters in the game suffer from Kodaka's neglect. I strongly believe that Shinigami is the best written female character in Rain Code, maybe even compared to the best in Danganronpa such as Sakura, Peko, and Maki. Fubuki is also a fairly well-written female character in my opinion, as her lack of knowledge about the world is explained through her sheltered, neglected, and uneducated childhood before being forcefully kicked out into a harsh world, and her parents are clearly deemed at fault for her flaws, even if not directly stated. But I admit her character doesn't get as much of a chance to shine as brightly as it could due to the overall structure and potholes in the narrative of her respective chapter.

As for the two female antagonists, Guillaume was a threat in the back of the player's mind more than a character. She has her moments to talk, but she is nothing but a vessel to push the plot forward, same with Dominic. I really wish their 'brains and brawn' dynamic was explored and complexified more, but it seems there's a conflict of interest between the conflicts of chapter 3, amidst the murder investigation, the bomb defusal, the flood, and the peacekeepers. With all these different overwhelming dangers, Guillaume and Dominic fade into the background when recalling the dramatic events of the chapter. Martina is another case of having the good bones of a well-thought out character, but the complete U-turn of her resolution shatters many players' opinions of her, understandably so. Initially, she's set up as Yomi's loyal subordinate, lovingly following his every order. The player is primed to theorize that Yomi is the reason she acts the way she does, manipulating her into becoming a completely different person, only for it to be revealed that she's demented because of her heartfelt desire for power of her own accord in chapter 2! Yomi only served to fan those wild flames already burning within her. But then the end of chapter 4 crashed down upon a great antagonistic character by making her give up all of her motivations, including her powerful role that she so desperately wanted. I've already spoken about her botched redemption at length in another post, so I'll spare y'all the rest here.

I think this person's point about Hundred Line is where the argument is the most shaky. Whether you like it or not, there are teenagers that are going to experiment with their sexuality and have sex. You may not like it, but that is what sometimes happens when curious teenagers want to try something new and supposedly exciting, emotionally driven, and rebellious (listen I can't say it like it's fact I'm just an oblivious ace don't swing your sword at me). I personally do not mind depictions of fictional teenagers having sex because it's definitely something that has happened and will still happen in real life. If we were to claim every depiction of teenagers having sex in media was illegal, a huge amount of classic horror movies and high school dramas would be on the chopping block. Not to mention that stories involving sexual acts between teenagers can still have literary value, especially cause a lot of these stories aren't just plotless sex scenes. Sex scenes in general can enhance characters' personalities by showcasing them in a very vulnerable state of mind and body as they work to communicate with each other in a very personal interaction. There are definitely lines in the sand that can be drawn on what is considered actually illegal in terms of explicit imagery of minors in fictional media, as many countries have their own varying laws against it (listed in this Wikipedia article). But Hundred Line is the least of my worries when it comes to that.

[the-bar-sinister]

I saw a post expressing some frustration with the state of f/f shipping in the Ace Attorney fandom, and there are definitely some elements they discussed that I agree with.

While I don't feel that FranMaya is exactly a "crackship" per se, I do agree that it's overly represented given the amount of time that the characters actually spend with one another in canon (which is next to nothing.) The pairing is largely speculative and results from Maya and Franziska being considered as sidekicks to or subcategorized to to their male counterparts, Phoenix and Miles.

It definitely comes off as very "pair the spares" to me– specifically in I feel like the pairing got started more because people ship narumitsu rather than finding Maya and Franiziska as having any chemistry in their own right.

The post I read was unfortunate also correct that a large subsection of the fandom will go off if you do pair either of them with anyone else.  There tends to be a low tolerance in the Ace Attorney fandom in some ways for shipping outside of the main top pairings-- this isn't unique to femlash, people will come at you for the wrong slash pairings, or het pairings also.

Franziska and Adrian Andrews was brought up, which is a pairing that I personally find very compelling, and plan to write more of in the future.

I feel like if Adrian was less of a "one case wonder" and got more screen time that this could have developed into a fairly common pairing.

Another pairing discussed was another favorite of mine, Trucy and Pearl. This particular pairing I think suffers from the heavy infantilization of both the characters.

While in the last game, Trucy is 17 and Pearl is 18, both of them are introduced to the series as children, which I think makes many fans hesitant to write them in any romantic or shippy material.

However, I feel like the best way to combat all of this is the same as combating most fandom problems simply to keep putting the material out there that you want to see, in whatever capacity you enjoy, be that fic, art, edits, meta or just talking about the pairings.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

What do you say about 2 most despised characters in the fandom: Andre the Ice Cream Man and Thomas’s self-insert?

Are they the most despised characters? I feel like that honor goes to more prevalent characters like Gabriel, Lila, or André Bourgeois, but I could be wrong. Either way, my thoughts on the two you asked about are as follows:

Andre the Ice Cream Man

Andre reminds me of the weeping angels from Dr. Who. Great - or in this case fine - initial concept, but the more they show up, the less sense they make because the rules keep changing.

If we go by his initial appearance, then he's just some guy who can magically sense who you're supposed to be with and who gives you ice cream to point you to them. That's a cute concept for a rom-com. I can even accept him getting akumatized when he first shows up because, if you're a magical match maker who delights in love, then it makes sense that you'd be sad to see someone giving up on love even if it's just a teenager being dramatic. Those feelings are still quite real plus this show is aimed at little kids. They're going to view Marinette's heartbreak more seriously than an adult audience.

Unfortunately, every subsequent appearance ruins the initial setup by changing Andre's rules, turning him into a pretty obnoxious character. If he can sense perfect matches, then why does Marichat set him off? Shouldn't he be able to sense that this is a perfect match? And why didn't Adrigami set him off in the season three final? They got ice cream without him throwing a fit while Marichat was refused service once and caused an akumatization another time! That makes no sense. Does this man sense true matches or just support whatever couple comes to see him? And what happened to the whole, "anyone who eats his ice cream together stays together forever" thing? Consistency matters, people! Pick a lane! Obnoxious shipper who can't take a hint or true magical match maker. Which is he?

Based on his initial appearance and rules, Andre should be the only person in Paris who knows the truth of the square right from the start. If they'd done that, then he could have been a fun character that was used to subtly push the square together and give them an odd feeling of hope in dark moments where their love is wavering. After all, who doesn't love ice cream when nursing a broken heart? It could have been a cute running gag where Andre shows up with ice cream every time a part of the square is moping. Instead we get whatever nonsense canon is doing with him because even the super minor characters suffer from how wildly inconsistent canon is.

I'll end the Andre discussion by saying that I'm not sure if I'll ever forgive the writers for having Andre be the one to out Marinette's crush on Adrien. Five seasons of waiting and that's it? That's the big reveal? You are not getting me hyped for the actual big reveal, guys. Between this and the what-if episodes always making someone look terrible, my feelings about the eventual square reveal are basically just low-key dread. Thank goodness there are so many solid reveals in the fandom to give me the satisfaction I crave!

Thomas’s self-insert

Confession time, I didn't know that this was a self-insert when I watched this episode. I thought that Thomas' character was just a gag about how most people don't really know what directors do because that is certainly a thing. The fine details of individual roles in the entertainment industry are kind of nebulous to industry outsiders. We can see this in the fact that people often attribute way too much power to individuals and ignore how many people are involved in making movies and TV shows.

One of my favorite stories about this is the fact that a Star Trek writer had his episode win a Hugo only for him to completely disavow the episode because they changed his script so much after he turned it in. This is not a unique story, btw. Stuff like this happens all the time. It's why I've mentioned that I use "writers" as a bit of a catch-all term for "anyone who effects the story telling" for simplicity's sake. Though I will note that, outside of season one, every season of Miraculous was written by a team. Members of that team are then credited as directors, so these guys have a lot more powers than the guy who won the Hugo. The guy who won the Hugo won it because Star Trek was apparently being run like Miraculous was in season one when the show was written by a bunch of different writers who just sold scripts for individual episode and those scripts then got worked into a final version by a smaller core team. Film is a complicated industry like that.

Anyway, back to the character question!

I now know that this was a self-inset, but it doesn't really change my initial feelings about the episode. All of the problems come from Marinette's writing, not Thomas' self-insert character. I'm actually not sure why his character gets so much hate. As far as bad self-inserts go, it was pretty tame. I'm not sure if I'd even call it bad. Thomas wasn't painted as a god or anything like that. He was the butt of a running joke that I didn't find very funny, but I do think that it indicates a level of humility to let your self-insert be seen as less than perfect. He doesn't even take credit for being both a writer and a director:

Jagged: Ladybug is one of my best buds! I can't wait to see her movie! Thomas: Well I'm— I'm the director, so actually it's more my movie, so to speak. Jagged: Oh, so you're the one who created the story? Thomas: Well, technically the screen writers wrote the story, inspired by Ladybug's exploits. Jagged: Oh, ok. So you did all the drawings? Thomas: No, no. The animators do all the drawings. Jagged: So what do you do then? Thomas: Well I—

Now that I know that this character is a self-insert, also I find this moment at the end a lot more cute:

Thomas:(after seeing the conversation) You know what. Take my seat and enjoy the movie. I've seen it ten times or more. What matters the most for the movie is to be seen by people who really want to see it right? Marinette: (stutters) But... I-I... Uh... But... Thomas: Sorry, I guess you don't know who I am either Marinette: Of course do. You're Thomas Astruc the movie director! (hugs him) Oh thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you! Thomas: She recognized me. Somebody actually recognized me! (wipes away tears) This is the best day of my life! 

I may not like major elements of this dude's show, but I really don't see this as an ego trip. I see it as a nice moment between creator and creation, possibly because I got to view the episode without any biases when I first watched it. I'm not sure if knowing the full story would have changed my read, though, because I really do think that it's fine for writers and directors to put themselves in minor roles in their creation. You have to come up with so many characters for a story like this, why not let a random akuma be based on you?

To give you a little perspective, the head writers of the show RWBY both voice characters in the show. Once again, I have no problem with that, especially since RWBY didn't have the massive budget you need in order to hire a bunch of voice actors. The thing that I do judge them for is the fact that both of their characters get unnecessary romance plots with major characters. One of the writer's characters - a guy named Jaune - even gets an obnoxious amount of screen time to the point where he feels like more of a main character than some of the actual main characters.

This whole video analyzing that show is excellent and may be worth a watch even if you've never watched RWBY because it plays with some of the same general genres as Miraculous and suffers from some similar writing problems, but I'll give you two specific time links to parts that talk about the self-insert problem so that you can see what I mean if you'd like a little more context:

The RWBY issue is the kind of setup where finding out that it's an author self-insert makes me uncomfortable. These two characters have some pretty clear writing problems, so learning that they're also self-inserts? Not a great look. It makes it feel like the writers were prioritizing their self-insert characters over telling a good story. That's not what we got in Miraculous so Thomas' character seriously doesn't phase me. I doubt it would phase most salters if the overall show was actually good.

[tokyo-daaaamn-ji-gang]

Hello! I just wanted to share a few thoughts after seeing the Takeomi hate come back once more. Feel free to ignore it :)

The whole Takeomi debacle is kind of fascinating to me because on the one hand, it's definitely in part because he never really got to shine in the manga (I do wonder if Wakui was rushed to finish the story and chose to make him worse in the character book to more or less wrap things up).

On the other hand, however, I often wonder if it isn't a case of the fandom getting attached to their initial expectations, only to get sorely disappointed down the line. I remember the rain bringer chapter, when he was introduced: at the time the fandom was getting really excited to see new (and older) characters and it gave birth to a lot of theories, based only on these few lines and his design. It might be a bit caricatural to put it like this but it seemed at the time that many people expected him to be some kind of sexy mafia boss with a complicated backstory, so when he was revealed to be kind of a ''loser'' / mostly a normal dude with a different kind of complicated backstory, the expectations took a serious blow.

Anyway, this is just my two cents on the whole thing. I remember I was also disappointed to see him (and Sanzu) pushed to the corner and never brought back again, I would have loved to explore their characters a bit more.

And obviously, everyone's free to like or dislike any character (to each their own after all) for any reason. Takeomi's example just periodically invites itself in my mind 😅

I think the main reason is as you said, he never got a chance to sign or any kind or redemption for what he did. Even in the good timeline, it's shown he works with his siblings so must be on good terms with them but we don't get to see him actually interact with them and we don't know what exactly changed or how it changed for that to happen.

I remember the hype of when he showed up and thinking he was going to be a really cool character but he just never had his moment and his character suffers a lot from the whole telling and not showing thing. Like we know he was very important to the first gen black dragons but we don't get to see him in action or know what he did besides come up with good strategies. The rest of the first gen black dragons don't have this problem because we either see them fighting or they have loveable personalities/ have done a lot of good. Unfortunately Takeomi doesn't really get this, instead we get told he's important, have a panel or two of people cheering for him, see how he got corrupted then see how bad he was towards his siblings.

Speaking of his behaviour towards his siblings, the other issue he faces is that we never get to see the other people at fault. His dad and seemingly his grandmother are arguably a lot more at fault for what happened since they forced a child to raise his siblings. Takeomi didn't want to be "like a father" and he shouldn't have been forced into taking responsibility for them. This 100% doesn't excuse Takeomi's actions and he is still at fault, but I think the adults in situations, who should've been the responsible ones deserve some blame too. But because we never see them, it's harder to really hold them accountable.

Then we have the character book, Takeomi was already hated before that released but that's what really cemented him as being bad. Most of the character book profiles are light hearted, they either give us some funny moments or they show a softer side of the characters. Or they just give some basic info that we kinda already knew. But Takeomi's? (And somewhat the other black dragons) it just paints him as being so much worse then I assumed.

So I don't think it matters if anyone likes or dislikes him, as long as they don't harass anyone over it or be rude to anyone with the opposite opinion.

[qcomicsy]

Choose violence: 1. the character everyone gets wrong

Wade Wilson. Harley Quinn. Tim Drake. Dick Grayson.

I could go more but each one for each particular reasons.

The problem with comic book fandom is that eventually people will be attracted by the vibe. And there's nothing wrong with that most of the time the vibe is good.

Unfortunately it does involve people affirming things without being absolutely sure and myself was also guilty of that a while ago.

Yet, I do not think we should bash these people or act purposely towards them, the comic media is big. There are 80 years of history regarding some characters (Dick for example) and others (the newest ones like Harley, Tim, Deadpool) around 30 years +. That's a lot.

And I am not even pointing out the fact that how different writers will have different takes and different approaches to each character, because each history regarding them will have a particular theme and unfortunately comics suffer from what I call "playing doll house" effect where the writer wants to make a concept he finds very amusing or interesting and most of the time they will be willing to bend character each way their like to serve that.

As a newbie in comics the possibility of getting characters wrong, getting overwhelmed and taking early comics where the version of those characters is fucked up already, wanting to give up even before start is absolutely understandable and possible.

It is overwhelming, it is easy to get it wrong, it is even expected to get wrong because most of this characters have been suffering some kind of flandarization coming from the comics itself.

That being said.

Jesus Christ how those this poor fuckers are misunderstood.

Since I do not read much comics from Tim Drake I won't be speaking much about him, I also won't be speaking much about Dick because I am getting around reading his old series now.

The problem with characters like Wade, Dick and Harley is that the three of them are multifaceted people. Writing characters and understanding characters who are multifaceted is hard.

I, for a long time believed that their more silly moments the jokes and easy going persona where facades a thing that they use as a coping mechanism a thing that it's not the real them. Now I am not so sure.

Yes I do agree a lot of people summarize them as either this ray of sunshine without real feelings and in Wade's and Harleys case a crazy person that has no logical thought process.

The thing is that all of them can be funny and thoughtful. Can have the habilidades of cracking jokes both because they feel like but also to distract an enemy.

Dick Grayson can be a very thoughtful and kind person and cat like an asshole when he's in a bad mood and willingly be mean with people he cares about.

It all boils down to one thing that I have been thinking a lot lately. Comics are one of the few medias where you can have all the liberties to make multifaceted people, people who make mistakes and have a long time to make up for it. To fall on old ways to evolve, devolve, you can express and explore them in each way it relates to the character history and the people who love them.

And I find it such a shame that it's literally the characters who are the most written in that way the ones who suffer the "only character trait ever" syndrome.

[icypantherwrites]

Hi!

I really love your works!

Especially those related to the Voltron fandom.

Unfortunately the fandom is a bit stagnant but it's nice to see how you keep it active. Just for Voltron I wanted to ask, what would you think of a Canon au where Lance is possessed by an alien god and the team has to save him, and in the process face the fact that they treated him poorly and were a mediocre team?

Aw, well thank you ♥ It's definitely a pretty dead fandom these days, but doing my best to at least finish posting Here and wrapping up that trilogy on AO3 :)

To your question, I will admit that I don't ever envision or write the team as ever purposefully treating Lance poorly as I don't think they are like that. I think they are human (or Altean or part-Galran ;p) and like all of us sometimes we can get so wrapped up in our own problems or concerns or even our own past experiences that we can inadvertently hurt someone we care about through our actions (or inactions). So that would not be a story I personally could write or design as it goes against how I view the characters.

That said, I've explored in a few of my stories elements of where members of the team have unintentionally hurt Lance. I think it's very reasonable to hurt someone you care about like that in the short-term (with the exception to this being Kuron!Shiro whose actions can hurt in longer term because he's not quite himself) when there are outside factors and even internal ones that can skew your perception of the situation and how it might affect another.

If you're interested, a few of those off the top of my head are:

Quiet Your Pain, Suffer in Silence

Summary: Lance has never liked the quiet and he likes it even less on this big, empty castle far away from home. He tries to fill it with stories and laughter so it doesn't feel quite as lonely.

But lately whenever Lance opens his mouth all he seems to do is upset people, annoy people and now… now he’s hurt them too. So there’s only one solution.

He just won’t ever talk again.

Icy Notes: This one is probably the most 'team hurts Lance' story on the list as everyone (save my sunshine boys Hunk and Coran) do indeed hurt Lance by their words and actions. They all realize though in the end what hurt they caused (thanks, Coran!) and resolve it.

The Poison of Deceit

Summary: This diplomatic mission is not going the way Lance had hoped. The diplomacy part on behalf of Voltron is going fantastic and Lance doesn’t think he’d be remiss in saying he had a large hand in that. But the whole impress Shiro bit is an epic fail as Shiro doesn’t seem to notice his efforts at all and it’s only worse with Keith showing him up at nearly every turn. The aliens they’re working on the alliance though have noticed his efforts. But as Lance stands here now, Shiro and Keith’s lives along with a vial of poison in his hands, he isn’t so certain that was a good thing.

Icy Notes: This one might be the closest take to your comment about the alien God in the sense that an outside party is also involved. This one is just focused on Lance, Shiro and Keith so not the whole team, but those two do get a very hard lesson in what it means to be a good friend and is definitely going to stick with them.

Feast

Summary: Lance is well aware he's the weak link on Team Voltron. He knows he's not the brightest. But he's not stupid. And he's always thought that even despite his shortcomings he had not just a place with Voltron, but friends who would look out for him just as he would do for them.

But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. While there's no knife to stab him in the back, the ones his friends wield with their cruel, heartless words cuts just as deep. And by the time Lance realizes that something is wrong, that these people are not his friends, it's too late.

The feast has begun.

Icy Notes: This story has a lot of other plot points other than just team treating Lance poorly, although it is the most literal interpretation of the team hurting Lance (legit torturing him) even if it's not quite them... But it explores the show post Game Show and how those actions made Lance feel and again, unable to confide in his team and feeling like no one values him.

Worth(less)  (please note this one is rated M!)

Summary: On their journey to Earth, Voltron stops at a planet for supplies and finds that its inhabitants are not only incredibly generous but powerful and would make strong allies in their upcoming fight. In order to secure the alliance, the king assigns a member of his council to observe each Paladin and judge their worth.

Lance is delighted to find out his evaluator is the king’s own son, Prince Barin, who is a formidable fighter and pilot, and he’s determined to prove himself worthy and make Voltron proud, especially following the horrible game show experience with Bob.

Except Lance discovers that the prince isn’t interested in evaluating his worth as a Paladin; he's just interested in his body. And for the sake of the universe… Lance knows what he has to do.

Icy Notes: Like Feast above, there's a lot of other plot at play here and definitely heed warnings if you read it, but a large part of said plot is Lance's reactions and feelings from the Game Show where he felt like the team didn't care about him and so he's unable to trust them now. Horrible consequences for thinking so little of himself and unable to go to the team for support, but comfort and resolution at the end.

[divorcedwife]

What rpgs have u liked/played and how did u like them? :) i saw that your fave is pillars 1 and i love the setting n story so much (i just loooooathe real time with pause combat unfortunately. This also has soured da origins to me a lot. Do action pls or even better turn based but not that) also u have a lot of amazing anders art <3

pillars 1 my beloved!! maybe you already know but i must mention it just in case - did you see that pillars 2 deadfire has turn by turn combat? i don't think it's as good as the first in terms of writing, but when they introduced turn by turn, it became one of my favorites just for that. it made me so violent because combat went from a necessary evil to my favorite part of the game, so i was just going around the world looking for people to fight. and it really has its moments, i loved serafen and the first quest with the pirates, and it is a game where you can actually roleplay and cause real harm without intending to if you just listen to your companions all the time. they're not all good people.......

and bg3 also has combat that i really loved :-) i played it as a bard and as a rogue and i really loved both. i loved playing a support character and not feeling like the main character so much, and as dark urge, i thought rogue combat played with the idea of the urge very beautifully because i was so good at killing that i tended to skip dialogues and just kill.... i just wish i could reverse the clock and talk the devs out of constantly rewriting it ship of theseus style. the companions to me already had an issue of being too friendly and too innocent in their sufferings in a way i didn't find compelling, so making them even more into fandom versions of themselves is just evil

but i think that's all for RPGs where i really like the combat, all my other favorite games have real-time strategy and i just do my best. kotor 1 & 2 have it, although i enjoy it more when i unlock fucked up evil force powers. i still do love dragon age origins & 2, and have some fondness for dai because i really like the characters. and dao was largely improved for me by playing a mage instead of an archer ; if i can say anything nice about datv, it's that they've made archery good for the first time ever in dragon age. being an archer in dai is especially sad, you have a range of like two meters

i also tried the first baldur's gate game but i got too scared and confused with the companions management and the way the story progresses - like i strayed from the main quest and that locked me out of meeting jaheira, so i had to restart and redo all of that and it was painful. i think i could play it if i had some guide to follow or something, i just don't have the 1990s gamer disposition. but i really liked xan, i made him leader of the party so i could hear him complain all the time

& i think that's kind of it...! im not a huge gamer in that i don't try tons of different games, i just mostly obsess and replay the same ones over and over again. there's some others i could mention - like i played outer worlds and i liked it ok, i played fallout new vegas but it wasn't really my style and i didn't finish, and oh wait i just remembered i played all three mass effect games! well, i liked the first game and hated 2 and 3, which may be my most controversial hill to die on but i must be true

[piosplayhouse]

This didn’t quite fit into my response to the mpreg survey, but I’ve been thinking about it and wanted to mention it to you somewhere— I’ve noticed that a lot of mpreg content has a passive or even overtly pro-life stance. The most dramatic outliers are what stick with me ofc (I once read a fic where Shen Jiu said he wouldn’t get an abortion because “he’s not a child murderer”. The irony.) but for they most part it’s just a subtle slant. Do you think this is caused by the fact that, by the plot’s necessity, they gotta force their blorbo to have that baby (inserting moral objections to abortion like a horror movie inserts reasons for cell phones not to work)? Do you think that people with that belief set are more likely to have a pregnancy kink? Do you have other ideas for causes I’m not considering?

Ok I can only speak to things I've read and other responses I've seen (that fic sounds so ?????) so I do have to say the majority of things I've read (esp in scum villain) are mostly pro choice leaning where if a character gets pregnant they're given the chance to abort and usually don't take it (insert sy voice binghe I would never abort you) (however I do remember reading a wangxian fic where lwj drives his coworker wwx to a clinic to get an abortion (pre wangxian relationship) because lwj wanted to support wwx in his decision bc lwj was horrified that his mother was never given a choice on whether or not she wanted to be a mother and suffered a lot because of that, which was a really interesting subversion on the topic I think)

There is a trend I've seen in the responses to the poll where some people appreciate mpreg as a genre that takes bodily autonomy to a sort of emphasized issue, particularly outside of omegaverse/transfic (responses on whether or not people see trans pregnancies as mpreg were actually pretty even from all demographic groups) where there's this heightened sense of unexpectedness and urgency to the idea of pregnancy. As far as I know, there are a nonzero amount of people who use this framework to work through their own issues with a sense of detachment-- for example, many people mentioned having pro-life family members in real life who are pressuring them to get pregnant, and they like mpreg that either subverts that idea (what if a character was given the space to get pregnant on their own terms with full family support) or portrays it to an extreme (what if a character was being forced to not abort) but from the safe distance of fiction where they can just pull away whenever things get too real. It gives them a sense of agency and control over a situation that in real life they don't have control over, similar to how a lot of trauma kinks work.

Of course, there are equal numbers of people who are vehemently uncomfortable with that as well, so that should be considered too. On a broader demographic level, since much of fandom skews (unfortunately) American, there's also of course the probability that a lot of people have just grown up with heavy evangelical pro-life beliefs/influences, and this either consciously or subconsciously affects the way they view pregnancy as a topic. In terms of the actual heavy pro-life evangelicals, I think the majority of them would be opposed to mpreg on the basis of lgbt topics (lol) but it has been long speculated that quiverfull movement and adjacent adherent people do have some form of pregnancy kink that unfortunately they work out in real life on real children rather than in fiction, based on how they treat their coming baby/themselves while pregnant versus how they actually treat their children when they come out (unfortunately very poorly in most cases)

Anywayy that's all kind of speculation, but I hope that helps a little bit. There are always people with a billion different reasons for everything, and it would be impossible to capture those all in the span of a Tumblr ask response, but I hope this gives you something to chew on! If anyone else would like to add things to this feel free to reply or reblog or send another ask with your thoughts, it would be much appreciated :)

[descendintorantness]

so a while ago i saw this post basically saying that evie was a bad friend to mal. and of course, i wrote out a few pages defending my girl. i can’t find the og post but i do have some quotes from it, and i wanted to share what i wrote in defense of evie.

I can’t even begin to describe how sad it makes me that people blame Mal’s victims for her volatile mental and emotional state throughout the series. Usually, Ben takes the brunt of it, but I’m unfortunately not surprised that poor Evie catches flack for it too.

“I’ve been thinking about about how Evie sort of exhibits the darker side of the team mom personality trope.”

I agree. Evie is treated like garbage by Mal and is still expected to drop everything and be there for the person who traumatized, bullied, assaulted, and attempted to physically torture and curse her. Evie and her story show how easy it is for characters (especially women of color) who are shoved into the “mom friend” category to have unrealistic expectations forced upon them (both in canon and by the fandom), and thus be exploited by an (often racist) narrative to cater to their psuedo “child” (usually the white protagonist).

“Everyone thinks she’s a Mrs Weasley. But sometimes she can come off more like a well intentioned mother gothel.”

I KNOW you did not just compare Evie to Mother freaking Gothel- a woman who kidnapped and imprisoned an infant and went on to emotionally manipulate that child to completely control her in order to further her selfish goal of staying young and beautiful forever. On what plane of existence are you living on my guy??? (And, no, adding “can come off more like” and “well-intentioned” does not negate that you just compared an emotionally abused, traumatized teenager who did not choose or ask to be Mal’s emotional support punching bag, to an emotionally manipulative, neglectful, narcissistic full-grown woman who both chose to raise a child and used that child for her own selfish gain. To clarify, Evie is not any of these things, nor has she ever done anything on par with the crimes Mother Gothel has committed.)

“And Mal suffers from it most often.”

How??? Where??? When does Mal suffer by Evie’s hand in the series at a point where the real issue was not caused by external factors, or by Mal herself? Evie does the best that she can. She is not a therapist, nor is she actually Mal’s mother, and she cannot possibly solve every single one of Mal’s problems. However, that does not stop her from trying. The fact that Evie does so much and gets no credit from Mal stans simply because she cannot stop Mal from having negative emotions really frustrates me. Even from a story-telling standpoint, the only possible way for Evie to save Mal from any pain whatsoever was if she was more powerful than Mal and/or she was the main protagonist instead of her. And I’m pretty sure that neither you nor other Mal fans would like that too much.

“But a lot of the fandom have their bloody shipping goggles on so they think Evie being Mal’s beloved smother is romantic chemistry instead of fully unhealthy.”

YES ^^^^^ THIS!!!!!! I fully agree with everything you just said here. Hit the nail right on the head, my friend.

“At least once in each movie she doesn’t really think of what Mal herself wants before she acts.”

Oh. My. Goodness. You. Are so right. Evie doesn’t put Mal's needs over everything in her own life, or considers the needs/safety of a group over the emotional needs of an individual (Mal) at least once in every movie. I don't know how I didn't see it before, she's a horrible friend. -_- /sar dude seriously what are you on? (can i get some???)

“Film one. Tried to put make up on her when she’s plotting”

Okay, I usually hate it when people say this, but in this case: I don’t think it’s that deep. (with all due respect, sounds like you pulled this one straight out of your ass). The VKs are all obviously on edge, and I think Evie is just trying to calm herself down by doing something that’s familiar to her as well as comfort Mal in a way that isn’t explicitly touchy-feely, seeing as that isn’t really allowed on the Isle. We see that Mal was simply glowering off into space before Evie does this, something that is very characteristic that Mal would do all the time. Maybe Evie could have been a bit more considerate of Mal’s personal space, but it’s not like she knew that Mal was “plotting”. I think she was genuinely trying to help/make the situation better, and that this really doesn’t count as a “failure in friendship” on her part.

“Film two. The entirety of their talk after she pulled her away from Ben after the paps got thrown out”

Again, I truly don’t think that Evie had selfish intentions. We know that Mal tried to spell Ben with no reservations, hesitations, etc later in the movie, so I assume that she has done so consistently before. Therefore, I believe that Evie pulling Mal away from Ben was genuine concern for him on her part, as she could see that Mal was stressed and might have been about to cast a spell, likely on Ben. As for what you will agree with me about, Evie knows that Mal is stressed, and she’s stressed too. Evie probably hopes that knocking at least one thing off the list as soon as possible will help both of them.

As for their “talk”: While Mal seems a bit more vulnerable in this scene rather than the one with Carlos, mainly she's just whining to Evie about how she doesn't like being a "princess" (something that she inflicted upon herself, by the way). What Evie basically says is, "You should take responsibility, stop using magic, and appreciate what you have. All you have to do is read, it's not that hard." From Evie's reaction to Mal using the spell book, it’s easy to tell that Mal has used magic before, probably a lot. Many people try to argue that Evie was controlling and dismissive of Mal's problems in this scene, but it's pretty clear that she and Mal have been through this before. They only show us the one time that Evie is tired of listening to Mal's bullshit and trying to be empathetic. With all that said, none of it negates the fact that Evie was still coddling Mal. Their whole conversation was still framed to make Mal the victim and undeserving of the consequences of her actions. Everything Evie says in the scene is phrased so that Mal doesn’t have to take any blame for her actions. Evie says the line, “Haven't you and Ben had enough secrets between you?”, implying that both Mal and Ben have been mutually keeping secrets, when the truth is the only one who ever has been deceitful in their relationship is Mal. (Not to mention that she is continuing to deceive him.) After Evie doesn’t immediately give Mal validation of her victim mindset and assure her that she's completely in the right, she uses Evie’s trauma from the Isle against her. She "asks" Evie about being evil again after Evie confronts her about using magic. Evie experienced so much trauma at the hands of “being evil,” a lot of it inflicted by Mal herself. Using this against Evie to avoid blame is beyond cruel, and I don't care how overwhelmed or upset she was, it wasn’t okay.

“Film three. Accidental guilt trip after she got manipulated by the in laws.”

Oh no no no no no don’t you EVEN GO THERE. FIRST of all, FIRST of all, Mal was not manipulated by anyone. She made the decision to close the barrier completely on her own and in fact had to corner Ben into agreeing with her. She did that all by choice and with no prompting or even external suggestion from anyone else. SECONDLY, what Evie did was not a “guilt trip”. Evie was genuinely worried for the safety and well-being of CHILDREN on the Isle that Mal was threatening (not that Evie knew that part, since Mal went on to LIE ABOUT IT TO HER FACE).

“I love Evie. She’s my seventh favorite after Mal and before their cousin.”

Not to be rude, but it doesn’t actually sound like you like her all that much.

“But the fact remains. She isn’t as in tune with other people’s feelings as many would like to believe. It’s not a bad thing. It’s a very realistic flaw given who her mother is.”

I agree. However, I think that you and others are holding her to unrealistic expectations, despite many aspects of her character that would make it even more impossible for her to meet those expectations. So, yes, this is a realistic “flaw” for Evie to have, but I think that even in this context, that “flaw” is being blown out of proportion simply because it does some minor disservice to Mal.

“However, treating her like the ultimate example of a care bear isn’t really doing her justice

^^^ Yes, absolutely.

“Because like I keep pointing out. If you don’t acknowledge the flaws of the characters you like then you’re not liking every aspect of them.”

You make some good points about how harmful it is to reduce Evie to nothing but the “mom friend.” It's demeaning to her very complex character and forces her (a character of color) to be nothing but an accessory and a “make-friend-happy machine” to the main white protagonist. However: you seem to think that the reason Evie shouldn’t be reduced to “mom friend” is because she's bad at it. And that she’s bad at it specifically with Mal. First of all: she’s a teenager. She shouldn’t have to be good at parenting anyone, especially not her friends who are her age and (should be at) her general level of maturity. Second: what has she done wrong? Especially in her relationship with Mal? She’s always there for Mal no matter how much trauma/distress that it causes for her during the entire series. Even just being around Mal probably stirs up trauma for Evie, who was exiled for ten years because of, and then ruthlessly tormented, harassed, and even physically assaulted by Mal. The fact that she is still Mal’s friend is most likely due to fear on Evie’s part (fear of Mal hurting her again, fear of losing other friends by cutting off Mal, etc). Although that’s obviously not healthy for either of them, it’s disproportionately worse for Evie, who is basically trapped in endless uncomfortable situations where she is forced to interact with, constantly cater to the emotions of, and coddle her abuser. Basically, Mal has never made amends or even bothered to stop emotionally abusing/using Evie, at least not in any substantial way. The reason that Evie is sometimes subpar at her very, very demanding role in this toxic, abusive relationship that she was forced into is not her fault in any way shape or form, nor is it due to any character or personality “flaw” of hers. Evie is not comfortable around Mal, and probably never will be. Mal does not treat Evie as an equal or a friend, she treats her like a mother or a servant. They have never had a healthy relationship, and they probably never will, and that is not due to any mistakes or shortcomings on Evie’s part. It is due to the fact that Mal was a bully to Evie only to eventually force her into a toxic friendship from which she benefits and Evie suffers.