#undertale logic

[wasteland-squog-baby]

Hey!

*replaces your universe's logic with undertale logic*

Jokes on you your just making a bigger hodgepodge.

[chompsloudly]

Thinking Abt Undertale logic hurts my head

The existence of the blue soul attack which grants gravity and bone platforms implies that before that frisk's just flying wherever not to mention how heigh those platforms are like what are they made of?? Air?? And don't get me started on the actual attacks, like, if frisk is actually getting stabbed and burned and stuff, how are they not dead?? Do they just have an insanely high pain tolerance? Does that mean whenever they get hit there's just an onslaught of gore? Or do monster bullets interact differently with physical entities? But then again we saw undynes spear break a table, and toriel presumably uses her magic to light fires, so is frisk just chugging painkillers the whole time? How haven't they died from blood loss? Why me? Also do bullets interact differently with monster since they're made of magic? I'm going to have a brain aneurysm at this rate

[meldelamel]

Aah, Undertale, the game with a skeleton with pupils and a skeleton with eyebrows closing their eyes, blushing and drinking ketchup.

[forgettable-au]

I don't know if it was asked, but… Do the skelebros have a sort of photo album ?

And if yes, then, did the photos change ?

By that, I mean those of Winding Did he disappear on them ? Did the photos get burned ? Did Dings magically turned to Papyrus on them and then, Sans and Paps goes like 'looks like Papyrus, is Papyrus.' ?

It's a combination of some of these

They do have some photos, but probably most of them are from when they were small, they don't tell you a lot...

If there were any photos that were obviously from their days at the lab, those are probably gone... but it's, uh, because of something else...different reasons...

The photos they DO have remained the same! Except for one detail:

It's just the eyes that changed btw, Papyrus and Wingdings have other physical differences but those didn't change in the photos, just the eyes.

Also there's a small bonus below the cut...

Baby bones!! Yay

[roadkill-creatures]

I need everyone to see my vision

[zu-is-here]

Blackout

Aftermare Week by @bluepallilworld

Geno & Error by loverofpiggies

Nightmare by jokublog

[srsconcha]

Mark my words, one I will be able to do a fanart of every fanfic a like it so so so so much, today WHAT IT MEANS TO BRING JUSTICE by Stallking, with a bit of spoiler without context

[unamzi]

True fresh is poisonous.

Let me explain!

So first, the persona fresh puts on.

Fresh often wears colourful/neon clothing, one that is very visible. We can all agree on that.

Fresh also puts on a very friendly personality.

Now, true fresh.

True fresh in itself is colorful. Bright purple, with a colorful red and yellow eye.

It also has a disadvantage with its vision, considering that the eye is on its tongue, which would make it harder for it to see.

So, what's my point.

Where else do we see colourful beings?

Frogs. Frogs, are known to be colourful.

Which frogs specifically? That's right, poisonous ones.

So, the reason poisonous frogs are colourful are because it's like a "warning". It's almost a way to indicate they're poisonous so predators will chase after them less.

Same would be with Fresh. His species didn't develop the need to camouflage, and it bled into his clothing.

How is fresh poisonous.

Fresh feeds off of souls.

He feeds off of the souls of his hosts. Now, all souls contain determination (it's just that for a human soul, it'd be a 40/100 of a soul is determination on average, while for monsters it's around 10/100.)

Now, what happens when people get injected with too much determination for their bodies. That's right. They melt.

Fresh's diet of souls would both make him have an evolutionary tolerance of high levels of determination in his body, and make his body poisonous to ingest because of the determination.

Kinda like how the diet of a species of frogs (a kind of beetle) makes them poisonous, Fresh's diet of souls make him poisonous too.

[martlet-my-beloved]

I feel like Martlet would want to go with Frisk out of the ruins. After the time she seperated from Clover she would not want that to happen with another human child.

i dont think there would be any circumstance where martlet could ever bring herself to let frisk go alone tbh. its either frisk stays in the ruins with her and toriel as long as they like or they go out into the underground together. by the end of uty's pacifist, martlet definitely has ZERO trust in the guards and asgore to just let a child walk out into a world ready to kill them on sight.

i mean, im pretty sure im not fooling anyone by doing the whole "will they wont they" about frisk leaving the ruins XD. it's really only a matter of time before they confront toriel about it, and martlet wouldnt hesitate to follow right after them. she's brought a human through the underground once, and she'd do it again no questions asked

currently i think this au takes place around 5 or 6 years after uty? so martlet definitely had time to think about her time with clover and definitely knows about what toriel does. she knows the game plan. either she helps keep the next human safe in the ruins or she keeps them safe out in the underground. still a royal guard, after all.

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[deedjre]

haven't been able to motivate myself into drawing something for pride but then i thought about the flowey headcanon i pieced together at like 10 years old.

[carlyraejepsans]

for real WHERE does the idea that [utdr humans] are nongendered so that "you can project on them" come from. their literal character arcs are about NOT being a blank slate to be filled in by the audience

i think i understand the assumption on some level for undertale, because there is a very intentional effort to make you identify with the "player character" in order to make your choices feel like your own (the beating heart of undertale's metanarrative lies in giving you an alternative path to violence against its enemies after all, and whether you're still willing to persue it for your own selfish reasons. YOUR agency is crucial).

of course, the cardinal plot twist of the main ending sweeps the rug from under your feet on that in every way, and frisk's individuality becomes, in turn, a tool to further UT's OTHER main theme: completionism as a form of diegetic violence within the story. replaying the game would steal frisk's life and happy ending from them for our own perverse sentimentality, emotionally forcing our hand away from the reset button.

i think their neutrality absolutely aids in that immersion. but also, there's this weird attitude by (mostly) cis fans where it being functional within the story makes it... somehow "editable" and "up to the player" as well? which is gross and shows their ass on how they approach gender neutrality in general lol.

but also like. there's plenty of neutral, non PCharacters in undertale and deltarune. even when undertale was just an earthbound fangame and the player immersion metanarrative was completely absent, toby still described frisk as a "young, androgynous person". sometimes characters are just neutral by design. it's not that hard to understand lol.

anyone who makes this argument for kris deltarune is braindead. nothing else to say about it.

[buubonita]

Oh this is a really, REALLY, stupid idea but I like that, perhaps when Nightmare has obtained enough negative feelings, it is going through a kind of hibernation? And he just sleeps. Sleep for whole months.

[profounddefendorcrusade-blog]

Clover's personality (in-depth)

This thing turned out way longer than intended. As promised, I wrote my opinions in regards to Clover's mbti; I also wanted to include the enneagram but figured it would be too much, so I'll do that separaretly. For those who wanna get straight to the point, just scroll to the end of the post for a pic of the functions I think Clover has. But if you want more details, read the whole thing. Probably not many people will wanna do that, but I had fun, lol. Please excuse me for nerding out

Analysis

Even before they got into the Underground, Clover thought to themselves "Ok, this is a dangerous mountain and I ain't coming back, I'm probably gonna die and therefore not live to see the rest of my life play out BUT I'm gonna follow my values anyway. They're worth the risk." To me, right off the bat, that's Fi over Ti (aka inner values and morals over inner facts and logic).

I've done some research on this stuff and found out how "Fi knows the value of something not by analyzing it but by feeling it deep inside themselves that it is how it should be" Ti has to be as objective as possible, Fi doesn't. So I sat down and thought about how exactly Clover approached situations.

I feel like their main reasoning for being in the Underground were their inner values and beliefs of finding out what happened to the children. That's why I'd say they're an introvert rather than an extrovert (it's not because they're quiet and reserved, although they are, but because Clover's inner world affects their outer world). Now, both Ti and Fi look inward, and those inner thoughts and feelings affect how they interact with the external world. The real question is: is Clover objective enough to be considered a dominant Ti user?

We can see in the Vengeance route that Clover is stubborn with their beliefs and refuses to look at things from a more... logical POV: "Asgore killed five humans. Is it fair to wipe out every other monster in my way who gives me even the slightest reason to do it?" Martlet was the only exception because she was the only one who had tried to be nice and understanding. Clover's dark side is that they're tunnel-visioned and see morality as black and white (don't look deeper as to WHY the monsters do what they do), and blindly follow their own beliefs over what objectively makes sense. Just like Ceroba, who I'm positive is a feeler (she only considers how she felt about Chujin and not how skilled of an engineer he actually was, even when there's clear proof he wasn't the best at his job). 

Objectively, it's not fair to kill so many monsters after only five humans were killed. If Clover wanted fair vengeance, they would have stopped after five monsters were killed. But no. According to Clover's own logic, everyone morally imperfect, everyone who's hurt them, who tried to hurt them, or messed up somehow, must die. So, Clover isn't thinking about what makes sense; they're thinking about what makes sense to THEM, and stubbornly hold onto that till the end (again, like Ceroba), even after Martlet's warnings. She says how the Royal Guard will be after them.

The logical (T) thing to do would be to STOP before things become even messier, but once again, no. Clover doesn't care about the consequences, only fulfilling their mission that is driven by their own set of values. No matter which route you choose, you will be presented with Clover's own version of what "justice" means. It's not the objective truth, it's not what's the logical thing to do; they follow their own framework based on their (our) choices.

"If unhealthy INFPs are dealing with threatened values or viewpoints that oppose their own, they can go the other way and imagine that others are all corrupt, thinking badly of them, and deluded. They may see themselves as the only people who see “the truth”, or the only people who really care to make a difference in the world. They can become especially harsh and critical of others and take on a martyr role, gradually secluding themselves from other people". - this feels like geno Clover; they thought they were the hero but they were playing the villain all along

Now that I think about it, the logical thing to do, the one that makes the most sense, would be never to have entered Mt. Ebott in the first place. And if vengeance was what Clover wanted to do, it is fair and makes objective sense to kill only five monsters (since that's how many humans died). But as explained, Clover didn't follow that logical conclusion, but rather their own twisted sense of justice. The same goes for neutral. It's Clover who chooses who gets to live and who gets to die based on their own beliefs and feelings, which are not backed up by facts. Everything they do they do because they themselves feel like it should be done. They are the one who decide who gets to live and who doesn't based on their own opinion/how severe they think the misdeed of the final boss is. This counts for the regular monsters who attack them, too; again, THEIR own subjective decision.

For example, they might see Dalv's actions as acceptable/forgiveable and spare him, but not Starlo's and kill him. Objectively, both characters are messy in their own way, but Clover gets to be the "judge" and decide their fate, not objectively looking at the situation, but subjectively. In short, according to them, Dalv may deserve to live, but not Starlo. 

And even if they're a dominant Ti user, which I don't think they are, Clover is more past and future-oriented than present-oriented (N over S). As mentioned, they thought about how much they'd risk by going down Mt. Ebott (potentially dying, and definitely never seeing the surface ever again, or their family) but they followed their heart's desires; to them, morals and ethics (their own morals and ethics) were more important than what the more logical thing to do was (stay on the surface where it's safe).

In other words, they could already "predict" what would happen in the future, while in the present moment (the beginning of the journey).

And right before sacrificing their soul in pacifist, they think about how their death would affect ALL the monsters in the future, whether they had directly met and befriended them or not, even though they wouldn't be there to see it.

Clover seems to be able to easily move between the past, present and future, unlike sensors, who are mainly in the present moment (this is what I've heard somewhere at some point and remembered it, dunno how true it is). They can easily recall the past, and what they remember are things that moved them on the inside.

I've heard some of my friends say that Clover's character arc was to become a kinder person (develop their Fe), which, honestly, I don't think is the case. They simply acted on their inner views of what justice truly means, without further analyzing whatever they believed justice to be.

In pacifist, they're naturally selfless and kind and forgiving: a bit of a prankster, but they're one of "the best souls" according to Martlet. Just look at the ACT options that they used to befriend monsters. Quietly listens to Decibat, offers Dalv a handshake (and friendship), easily forgives Martlet, Starlo, and even Ceroba (+ gives her a hug), endures so many hardships yet keeps their heart pure and selfless. 

They were always driven by something bigger than themselves (like Chujin, who I also think is a N user).

ISTPs are more adventurous and independent and flexible and focused on current problems in the present moment; Clover has been future-oriented from the start; they depended on Toriel to take care of them, and didn't try to immediately "adapt" to the monster world. Their 1st reaction was to stay safe and cozy. ESTJs (yeah, at some point I thought Clover could be one) are more "ruthless" in their pursuits, they "force" others to adopt their inner values. Clover doesn't do this in any route; they simply act upon their own beliefs, but aren't demanding that other monsters to have those same beliefs.

That's why I think they're an INFP.

Functions

Fi (dominant) – "If something goes against their moral code, they will not go through with it." It went against Clover’s moral code to spare monsters in genocide and abort the mission, so they didn’t, regardless of Martlet’s warnings.

"Fi dominants are inclined to speak up against beliefs or actions that go against their personal values or express disapproval of certain behaviors." I can't find the screenshot, but in the Mines, if you interact with the character who's in the same room as one of the puzzles, Clover will find out how that character pulled a prank on that guy who later got a promotion in the pacifist end credits (I need to reply the game to find the screenshot). But basically Clover was upset that their own morals weren't met and gave them a "disapproving look" or smth

"Ti dominants most often feel compelled to speak out when people are acting inconsistent (ie: contradicting themselves) or when people are being illogical from the Ti user’s perspective." I think Clover reacted to the above situation as a Fi user

"Unlike Fe users, Fi users are very blunt and direct. Fi and Te creates a person who is brutally honest about their opinions and feelings. If they don’t like a person, they will let that person know." Not a person in this case, but an example of this are the options we get for Martlet's questionnaire. Clover will have no problem honestly giving her the lowest scores for both questions; we also also get the chance to honestly tell Ceroba that we're not into Starlo's training. There are these cases where they're direct as well:

...and blunt:

they would have given at least a smile or a thumbs up, but no, their honest opinion is their honest opinion

"They appear cold and withdrawn, but tend to warm up as they get to know a person."

Ne (auxiliary) – "Ne views a situation from multiple angles and motivations" I feel like this is best seen in pacifist; this is exactly why Clover decided to give up their soul in the end; they saw all the motivations of the monsters, from many different angles. On the flip side, in the vengeance route, it’s the complete opposite situation: Clover only looks at things from their own pov, completely disregarding others. That’s the thing about the INFP dark side: INFPs become "disillusioned or stuck in their ways." This 100% describes Clover at their worst: stuck in their ways is already explained, while we can say they were disillusioned when even Martlet turned against them/gave up on them (in Genocide). That was enough of a reason for Clover not to feel bad about finishing her off. They never liked her, but they definitely liked her more than anyone else, so I’d say it counts.

"Creative, open-minded, and able to think outside the box" We can say Clover’s creative when they build Axis’ robot companion, solved the two puzzles in the Mines, they’re also most likely into role-playing just like Starlo, based on their clothes (and they seemed into the whole larping thing with him), and how they seem to be into drawing; open-minded, definitely (Clover with everyone; the pacifist route in a nutshell); able to think outside the box (this goes hand in hand with them being creative: I forgot to mention the many creative ways they found to befriend monsters)

"Ne lives in the present like Se does but makes connections to past and future." Imo, this is exactly what Clover does (their sacrifice in the future, and all the things other monsters had said to them in the past; however, they DO interact with the present world at the same time. This is what I meant when I mentioned how they "jump from and connect all 3")

Si (tertiary) – "happy in their comfort zone" Is this Clover? Yeah. Initially, this was their "default" reaction/behavior: with Toriel. They subconsciously became more independent thanks to good old Flowey. As I said, their values led them to take the risk and come into the Underground in the first place, not adventure/excitement (the way I see it). Were they also seeking the truth? Yeah again, they wanted to know the truth behind the whole situation, but I think it had more to do with how they had found the fact that no other humans bothered to look for the kids immoral.

"Si users may draw on their past experiences to guide their present actions and decisions" Example, how the detailed lines they remembered everyone said in true pacifist, influenced them to make the decision to die in the present moment. Or when they asked Ceroba if she would date Starlo, after hearing and remembering Crestina mention his crush on her beforehand, wanting to set them up.

"Si users have a strong memory for past experiences and details" Yep, explained above. Also, dunno if this counts as noticing details, but we can make them beat the Shufflers’ game with ease.

"Si users are typically practical and realistic in their approach to solving problems" The Snowdin mini-quests come to mind (although they use past information here too to figure out what each character needs to be helped). Also, how they fixed the elevator by using a pickaxe (most practical & realistic choice). They’re also pretty rational while dealing with Guardener, and in general, while dealing with enemies.

Te (inferior) – I guess this is why I suspected they could be an ESTJ.

"seen as leaders" By everyone.

"Come up with ideas quickly" Pretty much throughout the game. They’re more low-key about this than ESTJs though.

"Ruthlss and domineering" This is them in vengeance route

"Extraverted Thinkers recognize the emotional content, but then they set it aside to focus on the facts" I feel like this inferior function of theirs is mostly seen in flawed pacifist. They recognized Ceroba’s emotional situation, but chose to be fair and just instead.

"Te users are logical" Recognizing the dangers of the Underground and deciding to stay with Toriel. We can also say it makes sense that Clover attacked those who attacked them first, and finished Ceroba off (Te is what is objective, but from the external world)

"Though they are generally free spirits, they like to have a certain order in their lives. They do enjoy structure, just as long as it does not intrude with their feelings/morals/ethics/etc. They like to be the ones to create the structure, not to have the structure to be created for them."  Vengeance route and Clover’s "mission" come to mind. Basically, the structure is that, whoever Clover sees as morally flawed, gets to die. And they stick to it

tl;dr this picture pretty much explains the way I see Clover's functions in a nutshell ↓

[cjhern1109]

You know I still find it hilariously funny that my introduction to Frans was actually through a Soriel Undertale compilation on YouTube.

Like, I still remember two comics from that video, one of them being the AU, Aftertale, and the other one being a child Sans having a crush on Queen Toriel and meeting again, older by the Ruin’s closed gates…

It’s so strange to me that my curiosity of who are they and what was their relationship led me to a more Frans centric compilation. Then, BOOM, it was love at first sight.

Idk why I wanted to share that, but I guess, that’s why I’m mindful of Soriel and their shippers. Internally grateful that I discovered Frans because of them, even if it was accidental 😅

[redstonedragon3]

Sans Undertale

Sans Undertale is omnipresent.

If you are Sans Undertale, you are Sans.

If you know of Undertale, you are infected with the Toby Brainrot, and are Sans.

But if you don't do Undertale, you are without Undertale. You are sans Undertale. Sans Undertale, sans as in without. Sans as in Sans. Sans is all. Sans is every.

[utdrmv-confession-box]

Transcript: Im personally not all that bothered by xtale using gendered pronouns for their humans or making them not nonbinary specifically because of the fact that the creator of xtale doesn't ignore or reject the fact that vanilla/canon/undertale Chara and Frisk ARE nonbinary and use they/them.

and also like nonbinary people can still use gendered pronouns so he/they xhumans headcanons go brrrrrrrrrrrrrr