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howlsofbloodhounds · 11 days ago

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Kinda upsetting when people write killer willingly and/or knowingly hurting or killing any animals, let alone his cats. I firmly believe he would never willingly or knowingly do that, would never want to.

And if he ever suspected that he could be a danger to any animal in his care while in his higher Stages (which I prefer to think he wouldn’t be, simply because his SOUL will immediately switch to Stage 1), which he can’t control and where his impulse control plummets even more, then he’d do the intelligent and mature thing—attempt to rehome the animals in his care.

Find them somewhere else safer with someone he can trust to take care of them, and far away from anyone or anything that could pose a danger to them.

(Not to mention the popular fanon belief that Killer not only keeps those cats, but takes them into Nightmare’s castle.

The cats are never once shown or even implied to have stepped their little paws into even an inch of Nightmare’s castle, and Killer would never take them there.

Not to mention—it doesn’t seem like Killer even keeps them anywhere. It’s made pretty clear that these are stray, homeless cats who choose to be around and hang around Killer. They like him, they trust him, they keep coming back to him. Them not having a home either is one reason Killer relates to them so much.)

Just because he’s a (literal) programmed killer, and is currently being trafficked by a corrupted being of negativity where he has to do and say a lot of horrible things—at least appear to be extremely obedient and willing, useful—in the name of survival and avoiding unnecessary suffering, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have lines he hasn’t yet crossed and would never willingly cross.

Not without some desperate situation, or external force coercing and threatening him into it.

Just because any sense of morals or morality he has may not be considered traditional, maybe even more flexible, doesn’t mean he doesn’t have them when in Stage 2. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have them still whenever it has to take the backseat in order to survive.

He’s not an animal abuser or an animal killer. He’s not a cheater, in the “agreed to be in a committed relationship” sense.

He’s not a rapist, or a sexual harasser, or a sexual assaulter. In fact he’s actually a lot more likely to be the one being assaulted. He’s not misogynistic, or homophobic, or transphobic, or queerphobic.

And despite the harm he has caused children unrelated to him and not under his care—because he still very likely had to kill and torture children, because that’s what you gotta do when your partner in crime is controlled by a being who can control the entire world and your Boss can dig his little dirty tendrils in your mind and soul and bring you to heel anyway—I doubt he goes out of his way to harm or abuse children willingly.

He may not care much about or trust children in the slightest—definitely not parent material—but similar to the cats, he’d find someone better, more willing, more able, to take care of any kid or kid(s) that somehow fall into his care.

Kids may find him and his Stages confusing, and because they’re young kids who don’t understand what’s happening to the adult taking care of them, they could be uneasy and scared—even if Killer hasn’t harmed them and has no plans, intent, or desire to.

Killer in Stage 1 would actually be hyper aware of any harm or risk he could do or be to children, actually. Especially if he’s still under Nightmare, somehow with a kid in tow.

He was an older brother once, after all—even if he failed miserably with his actual brother. On top that, it’s known already how much Killer doesn’t want to hurt anyone in Stage 1, and how much he demonizes and dehumanizes himself including in his higher Stages—and actively encourages others to view and treat him similarly, and even attempts to make the idea of killing him out to be something understandable and justified.

(Because he feels it’s justified. Even when he eventually starts realizing that he wants to live, that he wants a chance at a better life, I do think he’ll still struggle with feeling like he deserves it—but also the crushing fear that he’ll ruin it.

That he can’t trust his own mind, control his own body anymore—and his existence is inherently a threat to everyone around him, especially the ones he loves.

He thinks others would not only be safer if they stay far away from him or if he pushes them away—oftentimes justifying it with “you don’t need me” like he did with Papyrus—but he thinks his very existence puts those around him in danger.

And the only way to not be a danger anymore, to not hurt anyone again is to stop existing. (Which he just can’t seem to do, not from the lack of wanting and trying, though.)

Killer, particularly in Stage 1 and Stage 2, has been living his life with the expectation that he may not live to see tomorrow for quite awhile, and most days he probably never felt like he deserved tomorrow in Stage 1. Other days he didn’t want tomorrow.

Some days maybe even prayed that he’ll go in his sleep, and that his broken, deteriorating body will succumb to its hunger, pain, exhaustion, and injuries. If only because he knows the blood covering him isn’t likely to be just his anymore, come tomorrow morning.)

As if he’s more focused on assuaging anyone causing him harm or attempting to kill him of their own potential guilt or hesitation, willing to let himself be painted and treated as something subhuman if it means someone can and will kill him without hesitation or guilt. He self sabotages by trying to make people want to kill him, and feel justified in doing so.

He’d be more concerned with not taking any risks, wanting to give the kid(s) the means to protect themselves or run away if they ever have to.

When he’s in Stage 2, the kid(s) may feel like he’s suddenly more cold, distant, unreachable, emotionally unavailable. A child’s understanding of what’s happening can be simplistic.

Killer has done and is willing to do horrible things, but there are some lines he hasn’t yet crossed in his canon and we don’t have to pretend that he did in order to dismiss him, and the possibility of him trying and being able to change as soon as he’s actually able to be free from the environment and person that threatens him with erasure and torture on the literal daily if he attempts to disobey.

Yes, even if he and Nightmare were to be laughing together and playing a game of chess. The threat isn’t forgotten.

He has killed and tortured many people—likely children as well even if not shown much, and yes both Horror and Dust likely have as well—and he does mutilate and torture Swap during their first fight, and it seems to be something he continues to do whenever Swap keeps coming back to him.

It’s made clear that Killer doesn’t seek Swap out—Swap seeks him out. That doesn’t justify what Killer does in the slightest, but he is not going out of his way to hunt Swap down and hurt him.

Doing so would be counterproductive to what he wanted from the beginning—which was to make Swap give up on him, leave him alone, go away, and stay away. (When he asked if he kidnapped Blue, he even says he didn’t in ‘this’ timeline).

Also, some people have been really weird by insisting that Killer can never have healthy relationships of any kind at all, not even with Color, and that it’s “not canon” to say or depict his relationship with Color is such a way when that’s simply not true.

And i think this is because some seem to think that Killer doesn’t do anything but “hurt everyone” and that his apathy and disconnect from most people, his indifference towards his own actions in Stage 2, means he will actively and willingly hunt down and torture random people for no reason whatsoever.

The only person Killer has been shown hurting and abusing since Nightmare kidnapped and removed him from his own timeline was Swap.

And even then he’s never shown actively hunting Swap down just to hurt him—Swap is always the one shown to be coming around and bothering Killer even after he has made it clear that he wants Swap to just leave him alone.

He never asked for Swap’s help, nor did he ask him to save him or “fix” him or “make him feel and be good again,” but Swap keeps trying to and forcing his presence on Killer.

Keeps trying to force his wants and desires for Killer onto Killer. His ideas of what Killer should do or who and what he should be.

Thinks he knows Killer better than Killer knows himself, thinks he knows what Killer needs and wants. Thinks he knows what’s good for Killer.

Color doesn’t do this: he’s the only one who has ever asked Killer what Killer wants. (And of course, this is me writing from Killer’s perspective of Swap. We all know that no one deserves that, and there’s better ways to handle this situation.)

Everyone else Killer was shown hurting and killing was never anything personal to him, or something he did completely unprompted. Everyone else was Killer doing Nightmare’s dirty work—fighting the Star Sanses, terrorizing AUs and their residents.

And unless Nightmare told him to do otherwise or something triggered Stage 3/4, Killer was never fighting to kill—but he wasn’t holding back or refusing to fight either, unlike the Stars. Only enough to severely injure or incapacitate, not to kill.

He also sometimes got and gets crueler with his attacks when he was starting to get bored of the fight or of the lack of challenge/reaction/resistance his opponents put up, such as with Dream.

Killer in Stage 2 is indifferent in that he is desensitized to acts of extreme violence and abuse (especially when inflicted on himself), is used to causal murder and torture and death, and is removed—derealized—from the reality of it all.

He is also indifferent in that, unless he is given something he deems reasonable enough to get violent for—outside of being ordered to or being triggered and reacting violently—then he won’t bother to go out of his way to hurt someone for no reason.

If he doesn’t care about someone or is utterly apathetic to their existence, then he won’t bother to go out of his way to hurt them either until he thinks they’re starting something with him—making him into a problem or have hurt him.

He’d just ignore and/or avoid them, and acknowledge them if it’s for a reason or a convenience. Or a purpose of some sort, like having to work together on something.

Could he hurt people if he were to become interested in/curious about someone/something about them? Yeah, sure.

But I don’t think he’s doing it for the explicit purpose of finding pleasure in their pain or something—in this situation, him inflicting pain would likely come from a place of detached, desensitized, removed curiosity.

The subject of his attention and fascination isn’t much of a fully realized real person to him, I’d liken them more to a test subject or experiment of sorts.

As if he’s trying to figure out how they work, or perhaps if things like their emotions and their words are real. If they’re only coded or programmed to react a certain way.

Those “reasonable” reasons seem to be because he thinks it’d benefit him or give a desired outcome—using violence as a tool to scare people away for one—or because he thinks they deserve or deserved it. Aka, because they hurt him first and he wants to hurt them like they’ve hurt him.

(Wanting to hurt Nightmare because Nightmare hurt him by taking away what made him happy, that which gave him hope, what made him feel something—his cats, Color—and forced him to keep living—when Killer didn’t want to—and doing Nightmare’s dirty work, making Killer feel completely hopeless. That there would be no hope.)

Killer also asked Swap Chara if he could cut off their arm to study it, because he’s never studied a human body before. (Meaning he has not performed any unethical experiments on human bodies by that point in his canon.)

On top of that, Killer performs experiments on people’s souls, their blood, and their dust.

He keeps all that in jars—he has never actually been shown experimenting on living beings, let alone against their will. He uses their remains—often times without consent, and it’s unclear how aware exactly a soul that persists after death is of its surroundings when the body is dead. It’s for science, but given what he does, people may view it as keeping trophies of his victims.

We have yet to see him take souls from people who aren’t already physically dead, but we do see that he’s willing to bargain and make deals for others’ souls so he can experiment on them.

He’s doing this because he wants to study their codes—implied that he’s trying to fix his own SOUL. Trying to return to “normal.” He has his selfish reasonings for it, but it is not without reason and it’s certainly not for fun.

(Only time we see him use the word “fun” is when describing what it’s like to work with the Bad Sanses (and the word ‘sad’ is directly beneath it), when Dream asks him why he’s doing what he’s doing and Killer says “because it’s fun” (which he then immediately follows up with “and because your ‘bro bro’ asked me to”), and when someone asked him why he’s hurting Swap.)

(Does he feel guilty about it or remorse for it, any emotional empathy for his victims? No, probably not, not until he’s in Stage 1, likely.

But lacking empathy, guilt, or remorse doesn’t mean purposefully going out of his way to make things as sadistically painful as possible or purposely drawing things as out.)

Meaning every soul he didn’t snatch off a dead body (sometimes ones he killed himself when triggered into Stage 4, because again, Killer says himself that Nightmare doesn’t allow him to kill), was given to him through a bargain or a deal.

There’s also the possible blood drinking, where the only canonical evidence is that Killer was once drawn drinking something from a cup, some of the liquid dripped from his mouth down his chin, and the liquid looked red/similar to how rahaf tended to draw blood. It was never directly confirmed, and from what I can see, no one even asked rahaf about it at the time.

And the fact he collects and keeps human blood in jars for scientific study. Given who he is, it’s reasonable to assume he was curious and bored enough to try it out even once.

But it’s also just likely he’d resort to it originally either because he was forced to, or because he was hungry and he had to survive. There is no reason given as to why, nor is it even directly confirmed besides one possible drawing.

All in all: as of what we have in his canon, Killer in Stage 2 is more detached from traditional morality. He is not without any.

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