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Episode 14: Midsommar & Crimson Peak

Please consult these Instagram slideshows for accompanying images: Midsommar Crimson Peak

Both: Welcome to The Costume Plot!

Jojo: I'm Jojo Siu

Sarah: and I'm Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers! Accompanying slideshows for each movie are linked in the episode description.

Jojo: we hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]

Jojo: hello and welcome!

Sarah: welcome back!

Jojo: It feels like it's been forever.

Sarah: I know!

Jojo: every time.

Sarah: that's okay, I was listening to a podcast today and they were like, "we never know what to do in the intro!" so I think it's pretty common that people just... it's a little bit awkward just to start talking.

Jojo: socially awkward for the first five minutes.

Sarah: exactly. Well... welcome to The Costume Plot, we're glad you're here.

Jojo: Yay!

Sarah: We have a quick plug at the top, um, Jojo and I, just yesterday we were just on our friends' podcast. Tim and Ashley Espinosa. It's called Breaking the Fourth Wall...

Jojo: Yeah!

Sarah: ... and we had a really lovely conversation with them about theater, about design, our jobs, what we want to see change in the world of theater, you know... what we love about it, that kind of thing. So go check it out!

Jojo: Yeah there'll be some--there'll be some plugs and things to kind of get you guys to know where to go. To listen to our little interview.

Sarah: yeah. I'll put the link in the description of the episode and then there's also going to be a post in our instagram feed like, you know, showing you where to go. So yeah, it was really really fun and I'm excited to listen to their podcast, actually.

Jojo: Yeah!

Sarah: Because the conversation was so great that I want to keep listening so...

Jojo: they've got some pretty good interviews. And apparently we were their first designers on their podcast!

Sarah: Yeah!

Jojo: So that's really exciting. But yeah, shout out to other podcasts, and really we love to support other podcasts that are talking about theater as well!

Sarah: Totally.

Jojo: So, really exciting. Great! So you want to get into our topic, for our theme for this week, Sarah?

Sarah: so today's theme is has been a little bit exciting for us because, um... it's horror and neither of us watch a lot of horror. So it was a bit of an adventure for both of us.

Jojo: to say the least.

Sarah: I'm a scaredy cat. I'll speak for myself, I don't watch a lot of horror 'cause I'm scared.

Jojo: oh me too, me too!

Sarah: So yeah, I'm going first and my movie is Midsommar.

Jojo: oh, so scary.

Sarah: it was SO scary, I was ... shook.

Jojo: for those of you who are also not horror movie watchers, I tried to watch 10 minutes of this movie and then like, very promptly had to just find the Wikipedia explanation and promptly decided that I wasn't going to watch the rest of it. So Sarah is very brave for taking one for the team.

Sarah: I am VERY brave. I went in blind. I was like, "you know what? I'm not going to read any plot synopsis." I had no idea what it was about. I knew it was like, culty, and that's about it.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: I knew Florence Pugh's in it, I really like her.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: ...and I was SO scared. [both laugh] So I'll just dive in, uhhh... let me open my notes and THEN dive in.

Jojo: I'm already scared! [both laugh] This first image.

Sarah: I'm not going to jump scare you, Jojo!

Jojo: I know. [laughs] Thank goodness.

Sarah: so this movie, Midsommar, came out in 2019, directed by Ari Astor. Also written by Ari... I think he's a boy, written by him. He is known for Hereditary, which is another horror movie that made a big splash when it came out. Which I will not be watching, I'll just say that. [laughs] I'm sure it's great.

Jojo: I didn't even hear about it, so I mean...

Sarah: the costumes are by Andrea Flesch, who you might know as the designer of Collette, which was a Keira Knightley movie that came out a few years back. And then she's- she has had a lot of- she's been working a lot, but not a lot of titles I recognized. But this is obviously like— this is a really good costume movie. So I'm sure she'll be... we'll be seeing more of her. I think she's Hungarian. She lives in Budapest, I think. And this movie won for best costume design at the Fright Meter Awards, which I think is a horror awards thing.

Jojo: sounds like it.

Sarah: yeah, Fright Meter sounds, yeah... it sounds like horror. So the setting is modern day. And we start in maybe New York? It's never said, but it looks kind of New York-y. You know, young millennial people, very hip. I always assume that they're in New York. [laughs] And then we go to a remote commune in Sweden. And so the basic premise-- I'll just do a quick run down of the plot--is that Florence Pugh's character Dani and her boyfriend are in a really tenuous, like... crappy relationship. Where he wanted to break up with her and didn't. And then she goes through this horrible personal tragedy where all of her family dies. By the way, this movie is very rated R. So I'm not going to go into a ton of detail because our podcast is not rated R! [both laugh]

Jojo: yes!

Sarah: yeah, so then he can't break up with her because she's going through this. And then his friends are in grad school and they're gonna write... one of them, played by William Jackson Harper, who we love from The Good Place. Chidi on The Good Place. Is writing his thesis on mid-summer traditions in Europe. So they're gonna go to this commune that their Swedish friend grew up on to see their mid-summer traditions. So that's where we go. And then, uh... horrible things ensue. Lots of death.

Jojo: so many horrible things!

Sarah: lots of gore. A lot of- it's been a long time since I watched a horror movie, and really felt the the build-up of the tension and the unease that they build. It was like, I felt unsettled for most of it. [laughs] Okay, so that's basically the plot and like, I'm not gonna give away a ton of stuff because, as I said, it's super rated R and I don't need to describe what happens. I think if you've seen it, you know, and if you don't like gore you won't like it. Uh... yeah.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: okay so let's start with Dani. This is kind of, um... this is after she's already had her horrible family, like... trauma. Tragedy. So she starts the movie in very drapey neutrals. Everything looks really soft. I think she's a student, so it's all kind of basic. It all looks... like, it doesn't look cheap, you know? She doesn't look poor, but it's... this is kind of dark, but that's- that's kind of where we find her. And then quickly we go to Sweden. And this is her and the group of guys, the American people.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: And then the guy in the blue shirt in the middle, the light blue shirt, is the Swedish friend. So I found this really interesting, that like... how they look as a group together, nobody's wearing pattern at all? It's all just solid colors, like really soft muted t-shirts.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: Which is, I think, unusual. Like, when you have a group of American people, usually somebody's gonna be wearing some sort of plaid or a stripe, right? A logo.

Jojo: Right, right.

Sarah: So that was an interesting choice, I thought. Here's a front view of her outfit. She wears a lot of these cuffed pants. And they look like they might be linen, which makes sense because it's summer, so it's probably hot.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: so then this contrasts with the people that they meet in the commune, which is called... Hårga.

Jojo: [laughs]

Sarah: I'm excellent at Swedish, as you can tell! [both laugh]

Jojo: I would not be able to help you, Sarah!

Sarah: so we get to the cult. And classic cult, everybody's wearing white.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: I will say, this is not... this is gonna be a little different from our usual coverage, because there's not a lot of specific costumes that I want to call out. It's kind of just like, overall themes, and you know... because everybody in the cult is pretty much dressed the same. So I'll have the opportunity later to give some information that I got from articles with Andrea Flesch. Just like, how— her process and stuff.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: So yeah, it feels, um... folky? You know, apparently this movie, the genre is technically folk horror. That's what I learned.

Jojo: I didn't even know that that was a category! [laughs]

Sarah: apparently it is. It's possible that Midsommar invented it.

Jojo: right, right. [laughs]

Sarah: It's also like, everything happens in the daylight? Which is so unusual for a horror movie. Everything is very brightly lit.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: you know usually horror is all about the, what's dark, around the corner.

Jojo: that's almost more terrifying.

Sarah: yeah!

Jojo: they're hidden in plain sight.

Sarah: yeah. So basically, their midsummer tradition is like a seven day feast? Like a feast every day. So the designer started everybody off in mostly all white, and then as the movie goes on, brings in sort of one color at a time. Adds like, little hints of color, and then by the end they've all got color mixed in. So I thought that that was pretty cool.

Jojo: oh! Interesting.

Sarah: yeah. Here's more, more cult stuff. [laughs] So then like, the first ceremony is the first real scary scene. It's like, it's basically like a suicide ceremony. And it's- so these two people end up dying. They're very visually divided from the rest of the group obviously, they're wearing special outfits because they are the special people in the ceremony.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: And then we've got everybody else bringing in sort of hints of blue along with the white.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: oh, I love this stripy vest right here.

Jojo: yeah!

Sarah: I kept noticing this guy in all the scenes and being like, "there's that vest!"

Jojo: and he's got multi-colored buttons!

Sarah: Mmhmm. Some stuff I learned from the articles that I read is that, you know, they're really cut off from like, modern society. So they make all their own clothes. So everything looks very homespun...

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: ...looks like they made it themselves. And she said she intentionally made some of it look better made than others, like to, you know... because it depends on who made it, or whatever.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: I'll get-- I'll do some more information from those articles that I read. So she said not everything that she used, like... the embroidery, textiles, colors, are necessarily specifically Swedish. But she borrowed stuff from other folk traditions, like other Scandinavian countries... Hungary. She listed other countries, but I didn't write them down, so good job... me. [both laugh] But she basically kind of pick-and-choose what she wanted to use, and made her own sort of folk look.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: and I think it's super effective.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: they filmed in Hungary, and they didn't have a huge budget, so she did a lot of her shopping in Hungary.

Jojo: Interesting.

Sarah: And she said that she found 700 yards of this linen that was a hundred years old! So like, a lot of it is made of hundred-year-old linen. Can you believe?

Jojo: that's fantastic!

Sarah: I know!

Jojo: like, when do you get a story like that? Especially for a horror movie!

Sarah: also where do you find hundred-year-old linen?

Jojo: so true! I guess in Hungary!

Sarah: I gotta go to Hungary! I would love to fabric shop in Europe. I've never been.

Jojo: Oh, agreed.

Sarah: I can't even imagine how...

Jojo: that should be our next trip,

Sarah: Okay, great.

Jojo: maybe when we get rich and famous, this podcast can pay for us to travel. [laughs]

Sarah: we'll do a little Costume Plot tour, we'll do some live shows!

Jojo: that would be amazing!

Sarah: oh, that would be fun.

Jojo: so fun! Down the line, down the line.

Sarah: I feel like we could... okay not to go too off topic. But like, the movie analysis podcasts I listen to, they do live episodes, and all we need is a projector and we do a slideshow, and we do this thing live! Wouldn't that be fun?

Jojo: that would be so fun! Okay, ten year plan....[both laugh] Five-year plan! I'd hope that this would be happening in five years but...

Sarah: DM us if you want to come see us live, and then we'll, um... Venmo us ten dollars for your ticket right now.

Jojo: then you can finally see our faces. [both laugh]

Sarah: exactly. Okay. Anyway. The embroidery is all done by hand and like, she found teams of people in Hungary to do embroidery for her. So I just love that it all looks handmade.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: that's very effective.

Jojo: I love that lady's I don't know if it's a bodice?

Sarah: that one?

Jojo: yeah the one you're pointing at. Oh, that's so beautiful. And her hat!

Sarah: she had another bodice later on that I really liked, and I couldn't find any good pictures of it, and I got sad. But she's always doing a cute bodice.

Jojo: mmhmm.

Sarah: so what's next? Oh this is a nice little shot that we get of this girl who's going after Dani's boyfriend. She's like, carving something to put under his bed. But we can see the embroidery on her cuff, and...

Jojo: oh wow.

Sarah: it's just like, really beautiful little details. Really well done.

Jojo: it almost looks like it's printed on the fabric too. Like a stamp or something?

Sarah: this? Yeah, she's-- she mentioned that some of it is painted, so I think that this red pattern right here is painted on rather than embroidered.

Jojo: ooh.

Sarah: beautiful. Beautiful! I labeled this picture "death". [both laugh] Because this is from the death ceremony. And this scene was really visually striking. Because like, the white outfits really blend in with sort of the white rocky backdrop. And so the outsiders who have been brought in are so visible. You can see this guy back here, his name's Simon. He dies. Everybody dies. [both laugh] You can see, like...

Jojo: classic horror movie trope.

Sarah: everybody ends up dead. Except DanI, spoiler alert.

Jojo: right. [laughs]

Sarah: the Americans, and here they are, they're not... I mean, they're not next to the crowd in this picture. But like, you can see they're so much darker in color--their clothes are--than everybody else. So like, in the big crowd shots, you can really pick them out, and they really stand out as being different from everybody else.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: here's Dani. So this is toward the end, I pretty much skipped the whole middle of the movie, if that's okay...

Jojo: [laughs] no worries.

Sarah: it's more folk costumes, you know, more white. So this is her doing a maypole dance with the women of the community. And I'm going to talk about these symbols right here on the front of her blouse, let's see... where is it... here. This is from an article on fashionista.com. They used a runic alphabet to create their own language called Affekt. And every person in Hårga has a rune assigned to them that has meaning for their life or their role in the community.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: So then they give her this outfit to wear for the maypole dance, and apparently the runes on the front of her blouse, the hourglass one means "helplessness or innocence" and the backwards R "forebodes crisis and death." [both laugh] So...

Jojo: you know, just in case you needed some foreshadowing. At the end of the movie.

Sarah: They're like, "your role is crisis and death! Here you go, enjoy your dance!"

Jojo: oh gosh.

Sarah: and then we've got lots of flower crowns happening. Beautiful.

Jojo: those are very beautiful.

Sarah: they made all of them, they made everything. You know you can't rent 500 white costumes and stuff, so...

Jojo: right, right.

Sarah: it's all very well done. Beautiful, beautiful.

Jojo: I do love those flower crowns. I feel like when I think about making flower crowns now, it's like... I don't think I have any flowers that would make it that full looking. Like, mine would just look really sad and droopy!

Sarah: I think a good flower crown is the fuller the better.

Jojo: yep, agreed.

Sarah: This is like, a full body shot of later because she...

Jojo: Oh my gosh, it gets bigger!

Sarah: ... she wins. She won the maypole dance. So they named her the May Queen, and they give her this, which is-- apparently this little flower cape is actually an actual real thing. They based it on real regalia from midsummer traditions. so that's cool. Oh yeah, but then later on they kind of make it into something that does not exist in real life. I'll show you that in a second. I like this headdress, it's like....

Jojo: oh there's a space! I didn't realize it goes up.

Sarah: yeah it's like a... it's almost like a...

Jojo: like the top of a basket, holder?

Sarah: yeah! Like a little handle. But in some shots it looked almost like it was horns. So it was a really interesting evil... foreboding... pretty...

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: like, contrast. I like that. And I like this, her skirt, too. It's got like, a little apron, so cute.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: honestly like, I would wear a lot of the clothes in this movie. [both laugh] I don't want to be in a Swedish death cult

Jojo: it's weird thinking about, "I don't want to be IN the movie, but..."

Sarah: I will take a cute linen skirt...

Jojo: "...but they look beautiful!"

Sarah: ...any day of the week. And then here's another shot of the side, where you can see the embroidery on her blouse. It's so beautiful.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: such beautiful little details. And then this girl over here.

Jojo: yeah it is very like, I mean, forgive my ignorance. But it does look very Scandinavian or Norwegian. Which I think is so lovely.

Sarah: I thought that too, and I was like, "do I just not know?" Because she said you know, it's not necessarily Swedish. But like I think it looks pretty Swedish, based on Swedish stuff I've seen. I don't know.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: yeah. I'm not an expert but... yeah.

Jojo: that folksy, uh... folksy look that we all associate with east European countries.

Sarah: yeah!

Jojo: or like north European?

Sarah: oh and you can see in this, so this is toward the end of the movie. So like, we've got the white, and then we've got blue, red, and then there's some yellow that comes in too. To like-- as the celebrations continue the most important one has the most color.

Jojo: okay.

Sarah: And then so here we have this lady, who seemed to be in charge. I'm not sure what her role was, but she's like a priestess sort of role? She was like, doing the ceremonies and stuff, so um... I don't know what her rune means, but there it is.

Jojo: interesting.

Sarah: yeah, and then she has a cool headdress.

Jojo: yeah. Oooh.

Sarah: I don't know what that's called, looks good. And then this is her in her house, which is like.... crazy looking.

Jojo: mm-hmm.

Sarah: it's got, like...

Jojo: oh my goodnes.

Sarah: ...stuff all over the walls, yeah.

Jojo: it's like, tiles. But like, tarot card tiles.

Sarah: yes they do kind of look like tarot cards.

Jojo: but in white. [laughs]

Sarah: yeah. So she wears this for the whole movie. But I just wanted to show it because I like it.

Jojo: her hat looks very Danish almost.

Sarah: I'll take your word for it.

Jojo: But like, that could also be Scandinavian.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: I don't know. Someone out there who's Scandinavian, please-- please educate us. [laughs] Because I would love to know.

Sarah: yeah, I did a little research but I didn't do that much research, you know. Like, I didn't research into what things are called.

Jojo: it's really lovely, it's a really lovely silhouette.

Sarah: Mmhmm. And it looks like it's really soft. I don't know what it's made of, maybe wool?

Jojo: mm-hmm, like a felted wool, almost.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: Very cool.

Jojo: it does look very soft.

Sarah: what do we have next? Oh, these are… this is a scene of like, all the women that are— they're comforting her in a moment of scary… scary stuff happening. [both laugh] I'm not gonna talk about it. So you can see how they're ready for the party, so they're wearing super colorful stuff. I love these tassels. I love all of it. And you can see their hair too, very Swedish looking with the milk maid braids and stuff.

Jojo: Mmhmm.

Sarah: pretty.

Jojo: look at that blue trim!

Sarah: I know.

Jojo: so pretty.

Sarah: gorge. Yeah, I’ll also shout out— the production design is really cool on this movie. Like, even before we got to the Swedish commune, I really liked the color palette we were working with. Like, it's such a very clear visual language. You can tell that this director is one of those directors who has a vision, and I like that. It kind of gave me the same feeling as Parasite, where I was like, “this feels so well designed all of it.”

Jojo: right, right.

Sarah: So this is… this lady, how do I describe what happens to her in non-rated R terms? [laughs] She has a… fertility ceremony, let's just say that.

Jojo: Okay.

Sarah: And then after that, she she gets to wear this bodice. Which is— I think it's because she's like, more of a like a woman? She's like, moving into the next phase, or whatever. And she's wearing a red lip, which… nobody else is.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: so she must be special. [both laugh]

Jojo: I do love that vest, or like, bodice? It's not quite a vest. But it’s beautiful.

Sarah: I would call it a bodice, yeah. It's got like, tabs with lace around it. Floral print. Gorge.

Jojo: so pretty.

Sarah: what's next? Oh, here's more crowd people wearing all their colors. That's sad Christian.

Jojo: this is such a disarming movie because I feel like visually… if, you know, me just looking at all of these stills is like, “oh, this can't be a horror movie. Everyone looks so happy!” [both laugh]

Sarah: yeah

Jojo: it's like, that's what makes them more terrifying.

Sarah: that's why— okay so I had seen some pictures and I was like, “oh yeah, that movie looks beautiful,” you know. And I heard it was scary but I think I was… misled by the photos I've seen, about…

Jojo: [laughs] yeah.

Sarah: … like, it being scary. I was like, “it's probably like a little bit creepy, but not super scary.” It was SUPER scary.

Jojo: that's what I heard, yeah. Because I think when I first saw it on Netflix I just saw the the cover photo. And it's like, her crying. And so I was just like, “oh, maybe it's just like a really intensely felt emotion from the actual Midsummer Night's Dream?” Nope, that is not at all what it is. [both laugh]

Sarah: apparently Ari Aster originally was approached about making— well, I don't know if it’s his idea. Don't quote me. But it was originally just gonna be a slasher movie set in sort of like a Swedish cult…

Jojo: Okay.

Sarah: …and then he actually went through a breakup in his own life. And so he decided to make the movie about a relationship ending.

Jojo: yeah. Sarah: so that’s— you know, that's the central thing that's happening to the protagonist as she is also being tormented by these…

Jojo: right.

Sarah: …cult members. I mean, in this picture— so this is her boyfriend Christian. He's been given a paralytic and he can't move or talk, but he’s awake and cognizant.

Jojo: oh, that’s terrifying. Terrifying!

Sarah: yeah. Okay so… grand finale, are you ready?

Jojo: okay! I’m ready.

Sarah: boom.

Jojo: oh my gosh!

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: she just keeps growing!

Sarah: so this is… not a very good quality picture. But this is what I could find. It’s— for those who haven't seen it, it's like a conical dress made entirely of flowers. And there's no sleeves, it's like she's in a cone made of flowers.

Jojo: Right.

Sarah: So I have some information about it. This is the thing that they made up. Like, this is not something that exists, in…

Jojo: okay.

Sarah: …folk traditions. It has a structure underneath it of a hoop skirt which is, I— like, that's kind of what I would expect to be under there.

Jojo: yeah, exactly.

Sarah: yeah. And it's got fabric and then they used over 10,000 silk flowers. And the designer was like, “well, you know, in my in my dream world we would have used real flowers but it took us weeks and weeks to make so that wouldn’t have worked.”

Jojo: they would have died. [laughs]

Sarah: yeah. And apparently, based on the interview I read, it seems like the costume designer herself was working on this piece.

Jojo: Wow!

Sarah: Like, was there sewing on flowers and gluing the flowers with her team. Which I was excited to see;

Jojo: yeah!

Sarah: That’s kind of unusual.

Jojo: I feel like I do that so much, it's like… [laughs] it's like, nice to hear that other designers are doing that too.

Sarah: if it's a lower budget movie, you know, they're all on location in Hungary, they're getting it done. Like, if it needs to get done, I can make— it make sense that she'll get in there and help out, so…

Jojo: yeah, and contribute.

S; Yeah, I love that. So yeah it's it's very striking, it's very strange.

Jojo: [laughs] she looks so upset being in there, too.

Sarah: that’s Florence Pugh's signature face. She has a downturn in her mouth.

Jojo: she really does.

Sarah: it’s really distinctive. Yeah, she's basically watching everybody die during this scene so it's traumatic.

Jojo: Ahh, got it.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: and stuck in this cone of flowers!

Sarah: apparently in between takes they would put a little chair inside the cone so she could sit in it. [both laugh] Because apparently it was really heavy and hard to move around in, which…

Jojo: right.

Sarah: …makes sense. So yeah, that's the end, I have one more picture and it's just a rendering. And I don't think that Andrea Flesch did this, I think she had them done, but they are beautiful.

Jojo: yeah!

Sarah: just a nice little rendering to cleanse our palates. Do I have anything else from the articles I didn't mention? No, I pretty much said everything! Yay me.

Jojo: yay! I know, it’s— it's funny because it's exactly like what you said, I think looking at all these images, anyone else would be totally fooled that this is a horror movie. [laughs] Because you don't see any of that, like…

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: you just get trapped, and then and then you find out it's a horror movie, and then it's too late.

Sarah: I will say, blood and gore is also very jarring against the background of these all-white costumes.

Jojo: yeah. Oh, yeah.

Sarah: …and landscape and stuff. It was— it's visually very striking.

Jojo: right.

Sarah: I'll just say that.

Jojo: right. Whew!

Sarah: so yeah, that's Midsommar. I'm not gonna say I'm traumatized, but— because I'm okay, I have not been having nightmares or anything. But it was it was quite an experience. To watch.

Jojo: that's good, that's good. I do feel like as I've gotten older, I mean— scary movies will still scare me. Which is why I still choose not to watch them. But I don't feel like I get nightmares as frequently as I used to when I was younger, because I— I don't know, maybe my overactive imagination was just more rampant when I was younger. [laughs] I don't know. But yes, I feel like there's a lot more scary movies that I'm able to kind of push myself through. And then at the end of it I'm kind of like, “okay great, now I know how to compartmentalize that and just put it away and try not to think about it while I'm sleeping.”

Sarah: I will say that this— I can handle the violence and the people doing bad things to each other. What keeps me up at night and will give me nightmares is ghosts or demons.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: Like, haunted stuff really freaks me out. I can handle like just like creepy humans but not ghosts.

Jojo: I think watching ghost movies is much worse for me, like you said. But I do feel like I've gotten to a point where seeing that much violence is also— it's starting to— it gets to me when I'm watching too much of it over and over and over again.

Sarah: yeah, I mean, I think we are all a little too used to violence in our media.

Jojo: yes. Yeah.

Sarah: so it is good to kind of take a step back and be like, “is it a good thing that I'm used to this and it doesn't bother me?” Like, probably not.

Jojo: Yeah. There's still definitely moments where, I mean, even action movies sometimes, I'm just like, “OH! I was not expecting that to happen.” So…

Sarah: right.

Jojo: yes, I know that feeling.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: well thank you, Sarah! I'm glad I didn't get any information about what the actual scary parts of that movie were. [both laugh] But still got to see some beautiful costumes!

Sarah: yes, yes! I was watching it being like, “how am I gonna…?” And I was like, “you know what? I don't need to describe the plot.” Like, that's not what people are listening to us for. They're not listening to us for a plot summary.

Jojo: [laughs] it's true, very true.

Sarah: If they need to know what it's about they can go read Wikipedia or just watch it, because we're here to talk about the clothes.

Jojo: so very true. Okay, so…

Sarah: all right, I'm so ready to see yours. I've seen costumes from this movie and they're beautiful. I've never seen the movie, but…

Jojo: it's funny, because I had been talking about this movie, because I had covered it in class. And it was something that like— I was using a previous Powerpoint that had already been made. So I was kind of just talking about the same thing. But then I was like, “oh yeah, I forgot about this movie!" And I really really love Guillermo del Toro. I haven't seen Shape of Water yet, which I still really have to see, and would love to see. But I absolutely loved Pan's Labyrinth, which is also directed by him, if you don't know. But you know, just really really stunning. And again, I consider this a horror movie, but I really do feel like he's very much a kind of gothic romance type of director.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: Because there's always a sense of romanticized fantasy about his horror stories. So yes, I will I will talk about that shortly. But I decided to cover the movie Crimson Peak, which again is directed by Guillermo del Toro, who's done Pan's Labyrinth, The Shape of Water. He actually also did both of the Hellboys, which I totally forgot about.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: He did Pacific Rim, and then he actually got really into animated movies recently. And I don't know if you've ever seen the show Troll HunterSarah: Tales of Arcadia?

Sarah: no.

Jojo: it’s— I mean, every once in a while I’ll watch animated shows, and tv shows, and stuff. But this one was really really good, I would highly recommend watching that as well. The storytelling is just really really great and the animation is actually pretty good as well. And apparently he's down to do an animated stop-motion version of Pinocchio, which I'm very excited to see. Obviously it's going to be a much darker Pinocchio, because it's Guillermo del Toro, but I'm excited to see where it goes.

Sarah: I think that story is already dark, like…

Jojo: oh, yeah.

Sarah: …Pinocchio is not my favorite story. It's creepy and weird.

Jojo: It’s definitely creepy.

Sarah: so I think a creepy weird adaptation is appropriate. [laughs]

Jojo: yes. Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see his take on it. And then the costume designer for Crimson Peak was Kate Hawley, who actually did Suicide Squad.

Sarah: Oh!

Jojo: she also did Edge of Tomorrow, she worked with Guillermo on Pacific Rim, she also did The Call of the Wild, and then she also worked with Guillermo quite a bit on the Hobbit trilogy. And so she has a lot of experience just working with creatures, and also just very fantastical elements, and also huge casts. So this was actually really great for her. And then she also did the movie Lovely Bones, which I included on there because that is also a kind of true crime, horror, psychological thriller-type movie.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: But it's actually— it’s also a book written by someone who wrote about her experience at Syracuse University, where I went! So…

Sarah: oh!

Jojo: so there's some terrifying real life stories about Syracuse that she based on her first book. Sarah: Really?

Jojo: But anyways, I just thought that was really interesting, that she also did Lovely Bones. So, the setting for this movie, of course, is in two locations. Which, actually— while I was thinking about it, this is not in interviews or anything anywhere, but she sets it in Buffalo. Or sorry, Guillermo, who also wrote Crimson Peak, sets the story in Buffalo, New York, where they start. And then as well as Cumbria, England, where they eventually go. And it reminded me a lot of Dracula, actually. Because, you know, he does kind of— I mean, it's a little bit backwards because they start off in Transylvania and then he comes to America. But it's this idea that there's this haunted sort of otherworldly building or location that the two—antagonists, I guess you could call them—are from. And then they come to America, and our leading protagonist is from Buffalo, New York.

Sarah: cool.

Jojo: So it's set in the early 20th century, which is the 1900s and it's a very Edwardian silhouette, for those of you who are costume history buffs. Which I think is such a lovely silhouette.

Sarah: yes.

Jojo: And she really— Kate really, really did some beautiful work for this costume— or, for this movie, set in that time period. And obviously, she pushed some things in terms of color and fabrics, and just silhouette, and surface decoration, that is probably a little bit more exaggerated than that time period. But there's also some very, very traditional— like, you see them in all the fashion plates for the Edwardian era. And it's very, very clear that that's the setting we're in.

Sarah: I love Edwardian, and I feel like it— it doesn't get done enough? Like, I think Victorian is what everybody always thinks of as “oldey-timey.”

Jojo: yes! Yeah.

Sarah: But Edwardian deserves some attention too.

Jojo: yeah, and there there is some leftover 1890s silhouettes, and almost even bustle silhouettes? That kind of carry over into some of these characters, because this idea of this house being kind of left in its old history, and sort of stuck in a period, and never moving forward. That's a big part of where we land when we go to England. But I'll talk a little bit more about that. So just to kind of give you a breakdown of the story first of all, the idea is that Edith, who is played by Mia Wasikowska— I think that's how you say her name.

Sarah: sure! [both laugh]

Jojo: ...who plays Alice in the new Alice in Wonderland. But she is our leading lady, and she's from Buffalo, New York. She comes from a very wealthy family. Her father is— I want to say he kind of owns a lot of land, and he's head of this conference of men who basically help fund different projects. So of course, this very wealthy man Thomas Sharp ends up coming to Buffalo, New York to ask her father for funding for this big project that he's trying to take care of on his land in England. And he's basically trying to dig up clay from his land to create this big thing. And he's created this invention and he's made a little model of it to bring into this first meeting with her father. But of course in the meantime, as he's coming to Buffalo, New York, he meets Edith on her way to basically publish a book. So she's kind of the “Jane Austen of her time,” is what they call her, because she's sort of this bookworm. She's very intelligent, she's very smart, she's always kind of the bright light in the room. And she actually— again, we don't really go into backstory of a lot of the characters. So I can’t— it sounds very much like I'm kind of confused about who the characters are because there are a lot of characters.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: so there's a lot of backstory here. But basically, she comes in, she's this very naive and very innocent character. So as our protagonist, she's always seeing the positive. And she starts off the story talking about how she believes that ghosts are real, and that she's basically seen them since she was little.

Sarah: Ohh.

Jojo: So she lost her mom to… I want to say it was the the black plague? Or, sorry, black cholera. So she lost her mom to an illness when she was very young. But her mom immediately came back as a ghost when she was probably middle school age. So the first scene is basically her in her bedroom, seeing her mother come into her bedroom as a ghost…

Sarah: that’s scary.

Jojo: …and telling her not to go to Crimson Peak. Or, “beware of Crimson Peak” is the first thing that she says.

Sarah: Ohh.

Jojo: And of course she completely forgets about all of that. Her mom never reappears to her again until she grows older.

Sarah: right.

Jojo: So that's kind of the premise of the story. The protag-- or sorry, the antagonists that come that come into this world are Thomas Sharp, who's again trying to build his invention. And he comes in with his sister Lucille Sharp, who is played by Jessica Chastain. And she is gorgeous in this movie.

Sarah: She’s beautiful.

Jojo: all of the costumes are gorgeous in this movie. But she really comes in, and she's very mysterious, and there's this very standoffish feeling that you get from Jessica Chastain. So I will go a little more quickly into our costumes. [both laugh] I’ve talked very much about the story. Let’s see, let me go ahead and open our first one. Okay, one big thing I did want to talk about is that the costume designer talks a lot about how she associated Edith and Lucille with different kinds of butterflies/moths. So Edith is kind of our butterfly, very colorful, very vibrant. A lot of her color palette is kind of golds, creams, and warmer colors, in contrast to the moth. Who is kind of a reflection. Jessica Chastain's character Lucille is kind of the colored moth, where everything is very dark, very muted, and much darker than you would see in a lot of Edith’s costumes. So let's move on, so this is actually the first scene that we ever see Edith in. And this is— it’s kind of like her nightgown…

Sarah: wow.

Jojo: …she’s in this quite a bit during the movie, because we see a lot of scenes where she wakes up at night. And she's always in this very— this looks a little bit more Victorian to me.

Sarah: yeah.

Jojo: and it's almost like a combination of a couple different periods. Because she's got kind of the Victorian sleeves, but she also has the frilliness of the 1890s. She's got the high collar, which is very turn of the century, but then they've also added almost like a ruff? Which is a little bit Elizabethan, almost.

Sarah: yeah. I was thinking that, yeah.

Jojo: and again, this is also— being the first image, I think this is the other reason why I thought so much of Dracula. Because, you know, there's the new Bram Stoker's Dracula with Eiko Ishioka's costumes, and it's very, very similar in silhouette and shape. This idea that it's kind of this transparent white nightgown.

Sarah: Classic.

Jojo: And again, this is a kind of jump forward to the very end of the movie. And then they don't explain how she got here, what happened, they just show her in this quick moment first. And then, of course, you repeat back to it at the very end.

Sarah: right.

Jojo: so, kind of a haunting image. And she's also surrounded by by snow, because in England it's snowing at this time. Another nightgown shot…

Sarah: Oh, wow.

Jojo: …but again, you can kind of see her body through it. And this is— I just, again, that naivety and that innocence of her. This image was actually I just wanted to show this because it's just so luxurious. Like, it feels like you can taste these fabrics. [both laugh]

Sarah: Mmhmm!

Jojo: Like, everything is just so luscious on this set. And this is when they're still back in Buffalo, and her friend who's the investigator, who… you're not sure if he's in love with her the whole time, but he never really says anything. And Guillermo never really touches on that whole relationship, but this is his mother. So she, of course, is talking about the Sharps coming to England. You know, this is her daughter next to her. And they're very high society ladies, and they're bragging about how they're gonna catch Thomas Sharp's eye, and how he's gonna marry the next wealthy heiress to his humongous mansion. So they're coming in with all of these beautiful fabrics, and just the… mix and shapes of all the sleeves that she put into these costumes is… oh, it's just so lovely.

Sarah: beautiful, so sumptuous.

Jojo: yes. And even the hats and all the decoration that goes into that. I mean, even the ladies in the back, who you see for two seconds. You can see how much luxury is on here.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: Which is pretty incredible. And then in contrast, Edith is in this very, very turn of the century silhouette. This is pretty standard, it's in a lot of fashion plates, but I love again that she's put her in this butterscotch sort of yellow-golden color. And she kind of remains in that color quite a bit throughout the movie. She kind of goes back and forth between this and the cream-white kind of nightgown that she's in a lot. So I just wanted— I just thought this was pretty, there was nothing else I wanted to say about it. [laughs]

Sarah: it’s very pretty.

Jojo: so this scene, again, kind of going back with that butterfly idea. This is actually a scene pretty early on in the movie, where she's talking to her father. She hasn't really met Thomas Sharp yet, but she's just been talking about trying to bring her publishing notes to a publisher. And it's interesting, because I watched this movie after Little Women, but I'm pretty sure they made it before Little Women. But it's a very similar idea, of this woman trying to publish her book. And she's trying to write this kind of scary story. Like, she jokes about how she wants to be Mary Shelley, and of course the the publisher tells her that she needs to include some sort of romance in there in order for it to be published. So she has this whole big—

Sarah: that is very Little Women.

Jojo: it is! And so it was just funny that she kind of had the very similar conversation.

Sarah: I mean, Little Women the book is very old. So you know, maybe they took a little bit of inspiration from it.

Jojo: it is, it is. Yeah, very much so. And I i think that also speaks a lot to her character, that she is this kind of naive— you know, she wants— she has such ideas about, you know, being this great author in this society where that's still not really quite accepted yet. Even though we are a little further along than Little Women.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: But I think that was part of her character too, is that she keeps experiencing all these things that she doesn't really understand. She's always very innocent, and even in the way that her clothing is very, very transparent. I think that was something that the costume designer really talked a lot about wanting to emphasize, in contrast to Jessica Chastain's Lucille character that we'll talk about later. So this was just another close-up of how beautiful it is, and just look at that beautiful lace.

Sarah: I love that.

Jojo: one of the other things that Kate Hawley also talked about was wanting to really stick as closely as she could to the traditional kind of mourning practices of that time. So this idea, during during the 1900s, this idea of having human hair. Especially hair from a lost one, or someone who died, made into some sort of a jewelry item or accessory item that you could wear. And that way, you could always keep that person with you. So she actually made this belt out of human hair.

Sarah: what!

Jojo: and then they actually— I believe she said she also had someone make… they made a mold out of ivory, of these hands that she she found. Which are very from that period.

Sarah: So the belt itself is all hair? Or it just has hair in it, or…?

Jojo: yeah. It's all hair.

Sarah: Wooooow!

Jojo: like so, the braided part on the side. I wish I had… I had a image, and then I decided not to pull it. But it's it's a close-up image of the the belt. Maybe I’ll include it on YouTube.

Sarah: yeah, we have to edit ourselves down, unfortunately. [both laugh]

Jojo: I know! And I was like, “well, this is enough.”

Sarah: I take your word for it. It looks great.

Jojo: but yes, so all the the braiding on the side is all from human hair. Which I was like, “terrifying!” But, you know, for this time period, is very normal.

Sarah: I mean, yeah. Super normal. Kind of a weird idea for us, but like it was so… it was so normal back then.

Jojo: yes, absolutely. And then just again, having these little kind of delicate lace patterns and embroidery on there, that I think was very reminiscent of the butterflies that she keeps bringing back as a theme, in the differentiation between the two.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: there's actually a whole scene where they're in a picnic in the park, and they're just picking up these dead yellow swallowtail butterflies. Which I was like, “oh that's so sad!”

Sarah: Aww!

Jojo: yes, terrifying. But yes, you see a lot of that in Edith's costume.

Sarah: oh I've seen this! Yes.

Jojo: yes, so this is prior to her going to the first ball. And she's been invited by Thomas Sharp, he's come quite late to pick her up out of his way to pick her up. And her father and her friend who's the investigator have already left. So she's in this robe getting ready to go to sleep, she’s not planning on going out at all. And this is what she's wearing before Thomas comes to her house. But even the fact that she's got this sumptuous robe, and it's got these beautiful flowers. Which— they talked at length about how everything was hand done and all the flowers were hand sewn. Which again is just an amazing feat.

Sarah: so much work.

Jojo: so that's all I had to say about that.

Sarah: gorge. Love it.

Jojo: so pretty. I wanted to pop this quick photo in there, because it just goes to show how wealthy everyone else in in this town was. Like again, this is the mother of her investigator friend who's trying to sell her daughter off to Thomas Sharp. And she's the one kind of running the party, and she's trying to get everyone to dance, but she's introducing Thomas Sharp, to say that he's gonna introduce how to do the dance— or, do the waltz, for everyone. He's gonna do a demonstration. And so she, of course, is expecting that he's gonna ask her daughter to dance with him. And he's walked in with Edith already, so everyone knows he's going to ask Edith. Except for this woman, apparently. But I wanted to just in indicate— you know, again, these giant sleeves, this really thin fabric. I think everything about this world, the costume designer really, really took the time to give everyone this sense of fragility. And almost this lacy see-through everything, but also mixing that with these luxurious fabrics, either satin or velvet. Also very of this time period. And really to show off that wealthiness of Edith and this woman.

Sarah: beautiful.

Jojo: so these are a couple images… I'm not going to talk too much about this, because we're going to go into this later, but just some images actually from— I believe this is from the FIDM exhibit.

Sarah: it is. You can tell, the mannequins always have that paper hair. [both laugh]

Jojo: yeah, I was gonna say, also the the text of the Crimson Peak in the back. But yeah, so just a couple of the of the costumes from the exhibit that I wanted to talk about, and we'll go in more detail about those later. So going back to the red dress. Guillermo talked a lot about wanting Jessica Chastain's first appearance in the ballroom, and first appearance on the screen, to be kind of like this “drop of blood”…

Sarah: Ooh.

Jojo: …in this presence of, you know, all these different dancers. So of course, this is her first dress. Just again, the sheer amount of work that went into building this dress. It's so beautiful. And it kind of looks a little bit more bustle period, because again, she's sort of frozen in the past?

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: but this is also the first kind of intimidating experience that you see, when we first meet Jessica, whose name is Lucille in the movie.

Sarah: I would be very intimidated.

Jojo: and she's a very accomplished piano player, very talented, she kind of runs ship at her house with her brother. And she's very, very close to her brother, so there's this very weird but also very tight-knit relationship between the two of them, and you're never really sure why. It's just creepy throughout the whole movie. And that's part of the unsettling idea, is that you don't really know if she's on your side or not on your side, and you never really know if she's for Edith or against Edith. Actually, most of the time you're pretty sure she's against Edith.

Sarah: [laughs]

Jojo: but she's the one who wants Edith and her brother to get married. Yeah, so there's a lot of sidebar conversations at the very beginning that kind of hint at what's gonna happen, but you're still kind of left with a lot of questions. Of like, who is this woman really? And what is her relationship to the brother? This is just a little more close-up of just the detail that goes into her dress. And again, it's I think it's velvet. it looks like it's like a velveteen, almost. And then they actually hand made all of it. Like, she has the same kind of pattern of leaves, kind of decaying and dying leaves, on most of her dresses, if not all of them. But just in different colors. So on this one, it's all the red, and then she has a blue dress later on. And it's a brown—like, really looking like it's rotted—trailing down her dress.

Sarah: interesting.

Jojo: So again, all hand done, all hand sewn, just really, really lovely. So I wanted to also go through another dress of hers, this is actually when they're in the park. And this is kind of the first time we see the Sharp siblings. And whenever they're in Buffalo they're pretty much always in this black, very somber colors. And then when they go to their house, it's funny because they get more color. But it's supposed to look a little bit more like their house, which is kind of decaying, so they're in blues when they go into their house.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: Which we'll talk a little bit about later. But this is a very, very bustle silhouette. But you can still see some of that same kind of decaying leaf pattern that is also on this outfit, and just sort of artfully placed in a very different way than in her red dress or her blue dress. So then, of course, Thomas ends up asking Edith to marry him, at the dismissal of her father. Her father really doesn't like him, doesn't have a good feeling about him, basically is totally against the idea. And then her father gets his head bashed in, and gets murdered.

Sarah: Oh no!

Jojo: So, of course there's no one to say that— you know, we don't know who's murdered him. But he gets murdered pretty much the day that Thomas is asked to leave town, and basically breaks Edith's heart. And so Thomas waits behind anyways, and says, “I want to marry you, come live with me.” And she says yes. So this interesting first entrance— he kind of goes back to the blue of his house, which you can see here. It's distressed in such a way that it's meant to look decayed.

Sarah: Yeah.

Jojo: And then in the meantime, she's kind of dressed, again, as this beautiful butterfly. All of these flowers were hand done and hand tacked onto this beautiful coat. And muff that she's got, matching muff. [laughs] But even the hat, and the detail, and the sumptuous velvet that you see all over her. She's in a much lighter color again, to kind of reflect this idea of her being the beacon of hope in the midst of this very sad mansion that he's been trapped in for a long time with his sister.

Sarah: Yeah.

Jojo: So I thought that was a really nice contrast that the designer did. Just some more pictures of the back, you can see it's all hand done in the back as well.

Sarah: Wow, look at that.

Jojo: so beautiful! But yes, very deep care was taken to every part of this costume.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: …and all of her costumes. This was sort of a quick— like, I'm not going to talk too much about him, because he actually is hired by her father to investigate the Sharps. The friend right next door is the one that I was talking about, the scientist who's also the investigator. But one thing I wanted to just mention about this costume was that I love this kind of green plaid that he's in. He almost looks a little bit like a leprechaun? [both laugh] But it's actually a three-piece suit that matches. And I love that he's also next to a green chair. So again, Guillermo plays around with a lot of this color matching, and sort of tone-on-tone-on-tone. Or same tone-on-tone-on-tone. So I love this this image of him, and the fact that he's got these crazy side burns that are also very period. Which, again, just small details for costume historians. But I just— again, he's not a major character, I just really liked his outfit. One thing that is very creepy about this mansion is that all of the clay, and the land that the house is built on, is all a red clay. So everything comes out red, and it's this really vibrant, almost bad horror movie blood red. So everything that you see in the house is sort of covered in red, or in some sort— or you see stains of bleeding red. So the house just constantly looks like it's kind of bleeding.

Sarah: wow, creepy.

Jojo: Which is very, very creepy. [laughs] And all the costumes—I think that was another thing, too—because there is, I mean, it is a very gory movie. So there's a lot of— they had to make multiples of all of these things. Which is the other humongous feat. Okay, so I'm gonna skip to… well, not skip to, but this is just some more of Lucille's costumes.

Sarah: wow, look at that.

Jojo: this is her costume when she's in the house, so remember, we see her in that red first, and then we see her in black when she's in Buffalo. But once she returns back to her house, her brother and her both return to this really deep blue velvet. And this is pretty much the dress she stays in for the rest of the movie. One of the things they talked a little bit about was that they wanted this idea of the decay, and the molding, and everything dying, to sort of carry over into the costumes. And they joked about her train being, like— getting longer and longer each time. Almost as if it was… I think they said it was like “the umbilical cord tying her to the house.”

Sarah: Oh, wow.

Jojo: Because she is very, very attached to this house. There's this whole idea of— Thomas tries to go away at some point, because Edith tries to convince him to leave. Because something in the house is clearly trying to hold him back. And she just refuses, and she obviously gets very angry that he's even considering leaving the house, because there's something mentally wrong with her. So you see that reflected in her dress. So not just the long tail, but also just the bustle idea. Again, this very dated look for this time period. Even the fraying and the kind of dying leaves that you see repeated, it goes— not just the front, but it also goes into the back. And again, all hand done. So…

Sarah: wow, SO much work.

Jojo: I think the next—

Sarah: Oh my gosh.

Jojo: yeah, these are some close-ups of all of that kind of dead, decaying… like, it almost looks like she's got even bullet… it's like those bullet casings? I mean, it's not, but it's this idea that she's got these dead… everything. Kind of growing on vines on her. Which the costume designer talked about a lot.

Sarah: It’s SO pretty. Oh, wow.

Jojo: yeah. Okay! Then… reflecting back to the swallow tail color of Edith, this is just kind of in contrast with the darkness of Lucille. And I wanted to just focus on how beautiful this looks. I think this is also from a 1900s portrait, I believe.

Sarah: Oooh.

Jojo: There’s actually a dress that exists like this. It's funny that it kind of reminded me a little bit of Mirror Mirror too, with the bow in the back.

Sarah: oh yeah, yeah.

Jojo: but there's a close-up of the flowers that they also hand tacked on there.

Sarah: [gasps] wow!

Jojo: it's so crazy!

Sarah: so much work!

Jojo: but yes, just so much stuff. So much everything. A lot of embroidery.

Sarah: beautiful.

Jojo: So this, I just wanted to focus on this, because this is the last scene that we see Lucille's character in. And I don't know if you care about the spoiler, but…

Sarah: no. [laughs]

Jojo: I guess this is not a spoiler-free podcast, we’ve mentioned…

Sarah: it's not! We say it at the top.

Jojo: but you find out that Lucille is clearly sleeping with her brother.

Sarah: I … thought so.

Jojo: So there's like this whole incestual relationship between the two of them, and so she's been controlling him, and causing him to kill all of these other women in order for them to gain money. To uphold the house.

Sarah: Interesting.

Jojo: so the whole time, he’s basically been going around and marrying women, and then killing them after he's gotten their money.

Sarah: wow.

Jojo: which was going to be the case with Edith, but he actually ends up falling in love with Edith because of her innocence. And when he finally gets the courage to try to up and leave, she ends up killing her brother. So this is the last look that she's in when she's doing all of that. And it’s— I mean, not only do you find her in her brother's arms, that's when Edith catches them. But she remains in this for the remainder of the movie, when she's basically trying to… not just kill her brother, but also kill Edith, as she's trying to chase Edith out the house. And it just kind of goes to show, this sort of— now that she's opened up and she's free, and this is, you know— everything's out in the open. She runs around in this, and this is also a very sheer garment. So it almost is like— it kind of reflects what Edith is wearing in a lot of her nightgown scenes, but in a much more regal way, as opposed to Edith's very done-up and conservative nightgown.

Sarah: Mmhmm.

Jojo: So just a couple more pictures of it, you can see how sheer it is on the dress form.

Sarah: So beautiful. So delicate, the fabric.

Jojo: yeah, so crazy. And then all the delicate lace at the top as well, and then this was just another image of the little… sleevelet.

Sarah: those sleeves are gigantic!

Jojo: yeah, they are. [laughs] It's SO much.

Sarah: so much fabric.

Jojo: it's so full, but also because it's so light and so sheer, you kind of really see how free she really is. But also kind of the most terrifying moment, because this is when she’s— when she's in the final stages of her gore, blood bath. Yep, that was it!

Sarah: awesome!

Jojo: that was the last one.

Sarah: I bet that that was a fun garment to wear, it looked really flowy.

Jojo: especially in contrast to all the other stuff, because I think the other ones, she actually had all the extra layers.

Sarah: corsets.

Jojo: they showed an image of an old corset that she had to wear, but it didn't make it into the movie. But it was a very old S-bend corset…

Sarah: Oh, gosh.

Jojo: …so it was really really restricting, and I think that was sort of to help her get into the character. Of feeling like she's trapped in this house and that she has to be a certain way.

Sarah: for those who don't know, an S-curve corset is the hardest corset to wear, because the ideal silhouette of the time was a full bosom and like— your pelvis tilted back, so that your hips were full and your bum was full in the back. So it puts your spine in this really horrible position where you're always tilted forward.

Jojo: Yeah.

Sarah: So if you're ever going to wear a corset, don't pick an S-curve one. [both laugh]

Jojo: don't do it.

Sarah: don't do it to yourself.

Jojo: one really quick quote I wanted to leave off with that was by— I believe it was by Kate. It said, “Edith reflects the Buffalo sunshine, whereas Lucille's heavy dark gown absorbs it. She looks like she's in mourning with the red rose detail as the only blast of color, and it mirrors the family heirloom…” which is the wedding ring that Edith gets from Thomas. And ends up going to all of the people that he kills. “…While also matching the crimson of her ancestral estate, and it takes its place over her heart that belongs to her brother. Whereas Edith wears a cornucopia of floral adornments on her hat and blouse to reflect new life.” So I think that was definitely carried throughout the movie. I think she did a really good job very— very kind of symbolic in all of the costumes. And I think I didn't focus so much on the men because there was just so much to look at for the women…

Sarah: [laughs] yeah.

Jojo: …but I did love that Thomas at least reflected his sister in terms of color palette.

Sarah: it's funny because I hear about that symbolism and I'm like, “Oh, that sounds a little bit heavy-handed.” But I think that that's only because I'm thinking about it, you know?

Jojo: Right.

Sarah: Like, if you're watching the movie, it's something that you might subconsciously recognize, but only if you're analyzing it do you think about how literal it is. So that means that it's not heavy-handed.

Jojo: yeah, right, right. Exactly. And you do focus a lot more on how beautiful these costumes are, because she focuses on luxurious textures, which I think is done very successfully.

Sarah: cool, I want to watch it now!

Jojo: so yeah… I know, it’s— like I said, this one is probably not as scary as Midsommar. [both laugh] I think because I kind of was like, “Oh okay, something is off about this relationship,” and then by the end you're like, “Okay, I kind of saw that coming.” There's a few jump scares, but there's not too many. I think I had my volume low enough that it also didn't make it as scary. [laughs]

Sarah: I've seen the trailer, I remember the trailer came out and being like, “So the brother and sister are definitely together, right?” Like, it's pretty clear. [both laugh]

Jojo: yeah exactly I was just like, “Uhhhh… something is off!”

Sarah: “…And I think I know what it is!” [laughs]

Jojo: yeah!

Sarah: well, cool.

Jojo: I will say, I think one thing that did bother me was the fact that I think Mia Wasikowska's character still looks so young… that it does feel a little bit like he's marrying a child bride.

Sarah: gross.

Jojo: Like, I think that is— I mean, it's emphasized with her costumes too. But it definitely gives you kind of like a creepy, “he's a little too old for you” vibe. Like, I mean, even though he's probably not that much older…

Sarah: yeah, and not uncommon, especially back in the day.

Jojo: true, true.

Sarah: but maybe not…. super comfortable to think about that hard. [both laugh]

Jojo: yes, very true. So yes, that's our horror episode!

Sarah: we made it!

Jojo: we made it. [both laugh] I know!

Sarah: it might be a while before we do another horror episode.

Jojo: yeah very true. [both laugh] Keep those suggestions, maybe on the limit.

Sarah: yeah, keep in mind that we're scaredy cats.

Jojo: yes.

Sarah: we haven't actually— I don't know that we've gotten any horror requests yet, so… good.

Jojo: that’s true.

Sarah: continue… not doing that, thanks.

Jojo: we haven't hit the horror niche yet.

Sarah: yeah. I mean, I think that, like… horror costume drama is a whole other, you know… genre. Because it's not like we're gonna—

Jojo: very true.

Sarah: I mean, I personally am not gonna just be like, “Oh yeah, I'm gonna cover Friday the 13th,” you know?

Jojo: [laughs] right.

Sarah: Like, it's not something that— Crimson Peak I think of as a costume drama.

Jojo: yeah.

Sarah: …AND a gothic horror movie.

Jojo: yes, very much so. Cool, well thank you, Sarah!

Sarah: great job. Thank you, Jojo. [both laugh] Okay, well…

Jojo: thanks, listeners!

Sarah: thank you! Don't forget to check out Breaking the Fourth Wall, the podcast that we're on. Once again, it'll be linked in the description. and thank you so much for listening

Jojo: see you on the next one!

Sarah: See ya, bye bye!

Jojo: bye!

[OUTRO]

Jojo: thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].

Sarah: our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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