#tw/ discourse

[cloudboundcritters]

"we need more weird queers!!"

you start parroting TERF talking points the milisecond someone says they are a lesboy or gaygirl

you cry when mspec lesbians/gays exist

you refuse to use neopronouns or it/its, even when those are a persons only set of pronouns

you expect a-specs to experience attraction in some way (yes, that includes platonic attraction)

you exclude intersex people

you can't even accept furries.

[ajaxgb]

@punkitt-is-here Well somebody had to.

[televised-eyes]

shout out to aziraphale for being more subversive than he’s given credit for. he’s so gay it made my parents uncomfortable in this very obvious but unspoken way

like crowley is clearly queer-coded as well but he has that sexy androgynous “rock n roll à la david bowie, mick jagger, prince, etc” vibe and cocky attitude that straight people seem to find little less intimidating

if that makes any sense anyways i love you aziraphale

[communistkenobi]

I believe it was the work of legal scholar Florence Ashley where I first encountered this term (it might have also been Serano), but I’m becoming more and more committed to saying “degender” as opposed to “misgender.” like I think the term ‘misgender’ fails to properly identify the mechanism behind the process it describes: misgendering is not an act of attributing the wrong gender characteristics to a trans person, it is an act of dehumanisation. I think the term ‘misgender’ especially gives people much easier rhetorical cover to argue that trans women are hurt by misandry by being ‘mislabeled as men,’ or that they are in fact ‘actually men’ and benefit from male privilege, because the (incorrect) assumption underlying this is that when trans women are ‘misgendered’ they are being treated like men - to follow this line of thinking to its natural conclusion, this denies the existence of transmisogyny altogether, because any ‘misgendering’ of trans women is done only with the intent, conscious or otherwise, to inscribe the social position (and the privileges this position affords) of men onto them, as opposed to stripping them of their womanhood (and thus, their humanity).

The term degendering, however, I think more accurately describes this dehumanising process. Pulling from the work of both Judith Butler and Maria Lugones, gender mediates access to personhood - Lugones says in the Coloniality of Gender that in the colonial imaginary, animals have no gender, they only have (a) sex, and so who gets ‘sexed’ and who gets ‘gendered’ is a matter of who counts as human. She describes this gendering process as fundamentally colonial and emerging as a colonial technology of power - who is gendered is who gets to be considered human, and so the construction of binary sex is a way of ‘speciating’ or rendering non-human the Indigenous and African people of colonized America, justifying and systematising the brutal use of their land and/or their labour until their death by equating them to animals. Sylvia Wynter likewise describes in 1492: A New World View that a popular term used by Spanish colonizers to describe the indigenous people was “heads of Indian men and women,” as in heads of cattle. By the same token, white men are granted the high status of human, worthy of governance, wealth, and knowledge production, and white women are afforded the subordinate though still very high responsibility of reproducing these men by raising and educating children. Appeals to a person’s sex as something more real, more obvious, or ‘poorly concealed’ by their gender is to deny them their gender outright, and therefore is a mechanism to render them non-human. Likewise, for Butler, gender produces the human subject - to be outside gender is to be considered “unthinkable” as a human being, a being in “unliveable” space.

Therefore the process of trans women going from women -> “male” is not “being gendered as a man,” it is being positioned as non-human. when people deny the gender of trans women, most especially trans women of colour, they invariably do this through reference to their genitals, to their ‘sex,’ as something inescapable, incapable of being concealed - again, this is not a process of rendering them as men, it is the exact opposite: it is a process of rendering them as non-human. there is not a misidentification process happening, they are not being “misgendered as men,” there is a de-identification of them as human beings. Hence, they are not misgendered, they are degendered, stripped of gender, stripped of their humanity

[maria6136]

I never feel more alienated from the trans community in general and other transfems in particular than when I see people going after "TMEs" and "transandrophobia truthers" and so on, ostensibly in the name of defending people like me. Or derailing their own perfectly decent points about transmisogyny by including some irrelevant, gratuitous dig at transmascs (or intersex people or "theyFABs" or whoever the target of the day is).

What the fuck are you doing? Do you get some kind of rush from deflecting TERFisms onto targets you've decided are more deserving or privileged than yourselves? What are you trying to achieve? If you want to do some weird 70s separatism tribute act then please just go your own way already and leave everyone else alone.

As a transfem who is not a woman and doesn't pass as one I don't trust "TMA/TME" proponents to have my back in any case. And I'm much more wary of engaging with trans spaces than I used to be because of this bullshit.

I'm so sorry to everyone who has been fucked over by this tendency. I hope we can get over it. Can we please collectively at least try to get a grip and maybe rethink how we're doing things a little bit? Because unless the goal really is self-cannibalization it's not working is it?

[januscorner]

It’s so weird when people act like cishet people know about queer discourse, I don’t think that frat bro hit on you cus of bi lesbians he hit on you cus he’s a dick

[mossy-aro]

sorry but i am SO deeply tired of the 'aphobia isnt real' arguments because they are literally always being conducted in such bad faith. NO there is not specific societal or legal discrimation against aces and aros BECAUSE we are asexual and or aromantic. you cannot hold specifically bigoted beliefs towards a group you do not even know exist. there ARE, however, underlying and deeply pervasive systems and beliefs that actively erase, dehumanise and make life tangibly more difficult for aro and ace people on a social, economic and legal basis. most of this is due to hyperinvisibility, the medicalisation of any nonnormative + misunderstood orientations, the elevation of romance + romantic structures as the most important aspects of interpersonal relationships in society, as well as the nuclear atomisation of the family. among other things. like. amatonormativity has never been ABOUT aromantic people specfically oh my GOD. its simply the underlying social belief that everyone is expected to be in monogamous romantic relationships and that those relationships are expected to the default centre of one's life. its something that affects EVERYONE! but within that it affects aromantic people in a specific and heightened way because of our inability to participate in it in a societally acceptable way. like these are not 'aromantic' or 'asexual' or 'polyamorous' issues specifically. these are theories and terms that originated within feminist + queer sociology studies! its all part of the wider underlying social fabric! aspec people are simply pointing out that we are often affected by these things in unique and often unseen ways.

the idea that we believe people actively 'hate' us for being asexual or aromantic is completely ridiculous. most people i know do not even know the definition of those words! so how could they hate me for it. they could however, for example, hold the pervasive + societally unchallenged belief that not experiencing sexual or romantic attraction is a medical issue or something concerningly abnormal in a human being + something i should get fixed. and its not uncommon that when you DO explain that its simply your orientation to them, they continue to medicalise it and see it as some sort of issue. genuinely so deeply tired of having to explain this to people time and time again when they only want to cherry pick the most ridiculous arguments to respond to and then act as if that's a majority held opinion in the aspec community. like i actually think we are aware of how society views us we're not fucking deluded and stupid. we don't have victim complexes we are just pointing out facts that yall are so desperate to ignore. UGHHHHH

[gor3sigil]

Cis Queer Bitches be like "Yeah I'm an intersectional feminist, I want everyone to feel safe and want to create a space for radical love and acceptance !!" then basically put a bouncer at the entry of the LGBTQ+ center to make sure the people coming to the "women and enbies ONLY" event are, indeed, women and enbies.

[trashfeminabag]

blanchardism is incredibly harmful but also its so fucking stupid and funny to me. like yes every single trans woman ever fits into one of these two exact categories made up by a single old white dude who posts his tgirl hot takes on twitter.

these categories are "incredibly horny for straight men" and "incredibly horny for our own tits". there are no exceptions. these are the ONLY REASONS we would spend years of our life and thousands of dollars and subject ourselves to intense scrutiny and bigotry. we're just THAT horny. can you tell blanchardism was invented by a straight white dude yet

[cloudboundcritters]

I'd rather hangout with the straight boyfriend than the queer cop who insists they're one of the "good ones" while harassing people of color

I'd rather hangout with the straight palestinian grandma than the queer zionist who keeps insisting that the death of palestinians is the one way ticket to queer liberation

I'd rather hangout with the leather dyke who is a mspec gaybian and uses paw/pawself pronouns than the puritan who makes "callout posts" clearly targeting disabled queer artists

[locustgirl]

not to be radical or whatever, but i think that maybe calling women and queer people “pedophiles” for fanfiction is actually not the activism you think it is

[zebulontheplanet]

I think the whole “my life expectancy is lower?!” Things with autism are getting a bit out of hand. Taking mental health and suicide rates out of this. Because most of these people who are saying it are; mostly if not fully healthy, are low support needs, white, not visibly autistic, etc.

And it kinda makes me upset. Because like, no Brenda. You’re probably going to live a pretty long life compared to the high support needs person who needs 1 on 1 care everyday.

And I think these people don’t realize that most of these studies, are done on higher support needs autistic people. At least most of them are centered around them. Yes, high support needs people do have a lower life expectancy. Why? Because we’re often neglected, killed, die, etc. why? Because of our neglectful caregivers. Because of often comorbid disorders that come along often with high(er) support needs autism. And yes, there is even a study that was done and it went circling around, and people discovered later on that it was about the death rate for high support needs people involving drowning because of their risk of being caught in water. Because there is actual scientific proof that autistic people are attracted to water. And yes, this does lead to autistic people drowning at a higher rate then their allistic peers.

No. Your life expectancy probably isn’t lower, or at least not as low as you think. (Again, taking out mental health aspects).

You know whose life expectancy is lower? Mine. A nonverbal person who relies on a caregiver. A Latino Jew who does look very Jewish. A person who can’t affectively communicate in emergency situations. A person who relies on others. A person who elopes. A person who doesn’t notice cars. That’s me. But even mine probably isn’t as low as other High support needs people.

Mine is lower. But not as low as my HIGH support needs brothers and sisters and siblings who rely solely on other people and don’t get certain things, and are a danger to themselves. To the HIGH support needs people who would eat dangerous things, who would run out of the house and into the street, who are black, who are indigenous, who are POC. Who are neglected. Who live with abusive caregivers. Those are the people with lower life expectancies.

[rouge-the-bat]

person not involved in The Discourse: wow both sides on this need to touch grass lol theyre both wackos

side A on The Discourse: i would like to exist in peace

side B on The Discourse: everyone on side A should kill themselves

[twoinky]

THIS COMMENT IS WILD

IF THE ADULT (WHO IS OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG) SEES THE PROSHIP EDIT OF DIPPER X BILL CIPHER THEY WILL THINK LIKING A CHILD IS NORMAL WHAT???

[rinhaler]

@saturnsatnin HAS STOLEN MY WORK

So I wrote this fic for a collab back in early November and this person has decided to steal not only the entire thing, but my requests and drabbles too. I haven’t had a proper look but I am SHAKING with anger. The only thing they changed is the characters involved. I’m not sure if they’ve stolen anyone else’s work, but you know people like this are too lazy and in creative to write their own stuff so please make sure to see if anything of yours has been stolen.

I am FUMING I have no idea what to do in this situation.

[stemms]

I could never understand people who treat DSMP like a dead fandom or feel ashamed of still adoring this piece of media in 2024. After all, isn’t the whole point of enjoying any story to keep it in your heart for years instead of forgetting about it the moment it loses its popularity? How did classical literature or old movies/series survive and remain appreciated until today, for example? The DSMP fandom is alive because there still are people who deeply care about the characters, and it will keep on living until there’s at least one person passionate about it.

It is true that the DSMP fandom was bigger in 2020-2022, but it’s also important to remember the quality of the fanbase at the time. I remember seeing so much more harassment, especially directed towards people interested in portraying c!Prime’s canonically abusive dynamic without even exploring the aspect of /p physical affection; many people were forced to deactivate their accounts because of the insane amount of toxic reactions. There were also A Lot of people incapable of understanding that CC’s characters weren’t supposed to represent their real life personalities, which either led to certain CC’s harassment for being “horrible people” or to misinterpretation of certain characters (e.g. c!Dream, c!George, c!Sapnap, c!Quackity, or c!Sam), a huge amount of poor lore comprehension, leading to Lots of victim-blaming and abuse apologism.

Now that DSMP is over and less popular, a significant amount of people responsible for the fandom’s poor reputation is gone, and people who genuinely understand the characters and simply want to discuss and/or create content for their hyperfixation in peace, stayed. Of course, this fandom isn’t perfect or entirely free of Weird™ people, but there’s certainly less toxicity, and it’s all that matters.

The next time you feel ashamed of still enjoying DSMP, try to remind yourself of the wonderful memories, excitement, creativity boost, and friends it brought you, and focus on the fact that this story will remain alive for as long as you let it.