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#toya x yukito
sailor-moon-rei · 6 months
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by yabi
art republished with artist’s permission
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mahoushoujosite-com · 6 months
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tikitsune · 10 months
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Yukito [or Jullian for all you Dub people] and Touya as lovers  (Separate and together)
Warnings: None, minor angst if you squint.
Note: ah yes. My two (technically three) first ever manga/anime crushes. Love these boys to death.
Pretty sure Yue started my liking for stoic boys with white hair (Sesshomaru, Killua Zoldyck) or just people with white hair in general (Tengen Uzui, Mirajane Strauss, Kanade Tachibana).
Yo, I literally just found out that Yukito is Touya’s actual boyfriend and I've just been shipping a canon relationship for years now. When I first read the manga, I was like ok but they would be cute together. Then I saw that one specific episode and went, “Yeah, they are idiots in denial.” Then I find out they are canonically boyfriends and… WHAT?! MY SHIP IS LIKE CANON!!!! Both of them actually but like eh… I’m a multishipper.
Anyways enjoy!!!
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Tsukishiro Yukito (I’ll get to Yue in this too):
Yukito is first and foremost a gentle lover. His love for you is bright and everlasting. Once he latches onto you, you are never getting out. (Unless you want to. In that case, he is sad to see you go but is happy for you. Then again who would want to leave this bundle of sunshine.)
He’s the type to put you on the inside of the sidewalk and protect you.
He likes to have a hand on you at all times. His favorite being around your waist or just holding hands.
If you like food, he’ll get you some. He likes food so you can take some from him as long as you leave some for him. He’ll always bring plenty of food so you can take some and there will still be enough for him.
When you hang out with him, it’ll likely be in his house or in a peaceful setting. Yukito is all about comfort. If you feel uncomfortable, he will do his best to get you out of the uncomfortable situation.
Yukito is one of the more popular people at your school, meaning, more often than not, he is an object of some people’s affections. If someone confesses to him during that period in which he was not dating you, he would turn down any confessions (unless it’s you or Touya but we’ll get to that later). If someone confesses to him while you’re dating, he will turn them down with a slight look of disbelief because he is openly dating you and is happy with you.
Segue from that, as i have said, he is the object of people’s affections meaning jealousy. (You’re in highschool after all) You have had multiple people corner you and say you’re not good enough for Yukito and will threaten you not to tell him. They would never do it around him but he will know. As ditzy as he presents himself to be, he is, in fact, rather perceptive. He will notice that you slowly start to pull yourself away from him and he will reach his hand out to grab you. You are not escaping him.
“Darling? Is something the matter? Something bothering you?” He asked gently.
You shook your head. “It’s nothing, Yuki.” You gently pull your sleeves down covering the matching bruises from an earlier confrontation.
Yukito notices and gently pulls your arm out and pushes your sleeves back. His eyes widen slightly at the sight before anger begins to show. “How long?” He asks gently, voice soft, letting you know that his anger wasn’t directed towards you.
It does little though as you burst into tears. “I’m sorry. They wouldn’t stop. They cornered me, threatened me. Never got physical before today. I’m sorry I didn't tell you.”
Yukito only brings you into his embrace and pets your head. “Shush. It’s alright, Darling. It’s okay. You’re okay. They can’t hurt you anymore, I'll make sure of it.”
From that day on, he hasn’t left your side for long. He already walks with you, Touya and Sakura to school and walks you home so there was no way there. If he does leave, he leaves you in Touya’s care because he knows that even if you are not dating Touya, he’ll take care of you for Yukito.
As for Yue, when you first found out about him, you and Yukito were hanging out at Touya’s house. Touya had to leave for one of his jobs for a bit, promising to be back soon. You were going down to get some drinks for you and Yukito while you wait for Touya to come back. You enter Touya’s room to see Yue and Sakura conversing. While you do love Yukito, you learn to love Yue as well. Like Canon!Touya, you treat Yue differently from Yukito but still love him nevertheless.
A bit of spoilers here:
When Touya gave up his ability to see things, you asked Yue to take from you as well and thus Touya retains some of his ability to sense when Sakura is in danger and Yue now draws from your locked away magic energy. Not like you were using it anyways.
Spoiler is done.
Yue is very protective of you. You don’t see him often, mostly when you are with Sakura but he is a part of your Yukito and that means loving him as well.
Early on, you learn that Yukito and Yue are two separate entities. (If I had to compare it to anything. I would compare it to DID or twins, to a certain degree). Yue is different from Yukito in the way that he protects you. While Yukito is one to hold you and gently caress all your worries away, Yue will hold you in his arms protectively, his wings adding another shield. His hold reassures you that you are safe and that he is protecting you.
Of course, you can see a bit of Yukito in Yue and a bit of Yue in Yukito. Both share the need to protect and comfort you. If Yue can’t appear because you are at school or in public, then his intentions are sent through Yukito. If you are being protected by Yue for whatever reason but need comfort, you can feel Yukito comforting you. (That’s why I kinda compare it to DID. Each alter’s little quirks or habits leak into whoever is fronting even if they didn’t have those habits before. That is what is used to create the person that the outside world sees.)
Yukito is your gentle lover and Yue is your strong lover.
Kinomoto Touya:
Much like Yue, Touya is very protective of you. He loves you with all his guarded heart and likes to keep you there. He is on the taller side of the student body so he likes to tower over you.
He’s the type that will open any door for you, car door, school door, shop door, even your own home door. Just give him the keys.
He’s not very into physical contact but you can be sure that he will be looming over you protectively. He will, of course, wrap his arm around your shoulder or link your pinkies together.
He works quite a bit, for his family even if they don’t know it, so he would love it if you showed up to each workplace to support him. If you could, of course. If not, don’t worry about it.
When you hang out with Touya, it’ll be at one of his many workplaces, when he’s on his break. (In which he will also apply his employee discount if those exist in said workplace.) If not there, then at home in his room. With Sakura being busy with school, the house is kinda just quiet. Just the way he likes it.
Like his canon boyfriend, Touya is seen as one of the more pinned after males. People like him for his strong nature and his dashing looks. (Some don’t care about his personality or even like it, apparently. That’s me. I’m some people.) He could care less about confessions. If it’s before y’all are together, he’ll decline by simply walking away. When he is dating you, he will actually verbally acknowledge the confession as something he is not interested in. He has you after all.
Like Yukito, there will be people fighting you for his affection. Unlike Yukito’s “admirers”, Touya’s “admirers” are not afraid to get physical. Like somewhere in their minds, they have all collectively agreed that he likes a partner who can fight. Maybe you can, maybe you can’t. Either way, you always end up with a couple bruises, ones that Touya takes notice of. He is kinda like the strong silent type so instead of confronting you, he will trail after you.
This was one of the times that Touya was away from you. One of his group members, who was most definitely in on this, had called him over. He had promised to be back soon, but that little window was enough for a group of three girls, your usual terror group, to come and confront you. They dragged you by the hand away from the open. “Heh. You think you’re enough for Touya?”
“Yeah. I am.” You said confidently, already ready to defend yourself, should you need to.
Suddenly you eased up and smiled. The three girls stared at your eased expression in confusion. “Is something wrong here?”
At the sound of his voice, all three whipped their heads around. “Touya! Uh nothing’s wrong! We were just…uh…”
Touya only stared at them before making his way over to you. His arm came around your shoulder pulling you to his chest. “Everything okay?”
“Mhm.” He kissed your forehead before leading you away from the group.
He already doesn’t leave your side as much but when he does, he makes sure that you are with Yukito or are in his eyesight. You normally walk to his work with him or to his house if he doesn’t have work so there is no time for confrontation there.
Together:
Now here is where most of my initial brain rot came from.
I would like to think that you and Yukito were officially together first. Touya was just your boyfriend’s best friend (that you secretly also had a crush on) until Yukito came to you one day saying he had feelings for Touya, in which you told him you did too. Together, you and Yukito researched the idea of polyamory and came to the conclusion that you were both poly. After that, the two of you started dropping hints as to the idea of it.
Touya eventually picked up on it and well, he could hope. On his side, he had liked Yukito for as long as he could remember. Then came the added variable of you. You had weaseled your way into his life and heart. Now he was stuck with the predicament of liking two people at once.
Unlike the two of you, he didn’t do any research and was just fighting with himself about this conflict. When the two of you started dropping hints as to wanting a relationship with him, he felt even more conflicted and just straight-up confused. Which led you to this:
You, Yukito and Touya were once again sitting in Touya’s room. Your head was in Touya’s lap and your feet were in Yukito’s. It was one of the few days that Touya didn’t have to go to work and Sakura was still at school with (what i can only assume as because i don’t exactly remember) colorguard practice.
You were scrolling on your phone, Yukito had his computer on your legs and Touya was doing something on his phone. “Hey… Uh…”
At the sound and tone of Touya’s voice, you turn off your phone and set it down. Yukito stopped typing to look at Touya. “Yes, Peach?”
Touya scrubbed a hand over his face. He hated and loved that nickname. It was derived from his first name and the way you used it was so affectionate. You had started calling him that one day and it hasn’t gone away. “See. That.”
You looked at him in confusion as you got up. Yukito closed his laptop and scooted closer to Touya, resting on the wall by his side as you sat across from them. “Me calling you Peach?”
He nodded. “Oh… If you don’t like it, I can stop. It’s just that you never said anything about it and so I thought it was alright. I can stop calling you that if you want.”
You looked at your lap dejectedly. You adored the fact he would allow you the right to call him by a nickname, something you rarely did for anyone else.
He shook his head. “No, it’s not that.”
Yukito looked at him. “Then what is it, Touya?”
“It’s just…I…” He just sighed.
You lightly cupped his cheek. “What is it, Touya? Bunny and I will try our best to help you.”
He gently peeled your hand away from his cheek. “That. Giving me affection. Offering help and support. Like…”
“Like?”
Touya took a deep breath and screwed his eyes shut, not like himself at all. “Like we’re together?”
Your boyfriend and you shared a look before you both simultaneously placed and hand on one of his. His eyes snapped open. You looked at your Peach as his gaze filted from you to Yukito. “Is that what you want?”
Touya stared at Yukito with wide eyes before slowly nodding, seemingly not trusting his voice. “Touya, we want that too. We just weren’t sure if it was something you wanted.”
After that, you and Yukito explained the concept of polyamory and have been in a relationship since. Both of them are very protective of you. They are both unwillingly popular and know what happens to people in a relationship with people like them so if they ever need to leave their trio, you are always left with one or the other.
When you walk, you have scary dog/sunshine dog privileges, respectively. On one hand, you have Touya who is silent, strong and scary. On the other hand, you have Yukito, polite and energetic but always prepared for a verbal smackdown.
Together, you three are the sweetest couple, rarely ever fighting and making eachother happy no matter how busy it is. It’s not perfect, of course, but it’s yours.
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Anyways this is like my second or third time writing something like this, I think, so don’t judge too hard. It’s also been a couple years since I last consumed any official Cardcaptor content so please bear with what I can remember.
Note 2: Almost went without doing the together part. Whoops!
Note 3: You can tell when I decided to give up and just try to get it all out.
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pawerzxx · 9 months
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Yukito Tsukishiro x Toya Kinomoto real
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lovelynim · 2 years
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TicklerTober 2022/Day 06 - Cuddles
Sakura Card Captor - Yukito x Touya
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Touya laid back, crossing his arms behind his head as he watched the ceiling. Was it really ok to be doing something like this, he asked himself in his thoughts as he peeked down to his chest, watching Yukito snuggle closer to him.
Having him over to ‘study’ wasn’t something really new in their relationship, but it was the first time they were sharing the same bed. But, despite his worries, it wasn’t like it was something bad, much to the opposite: he couldn’t be any happier than he was right now. Not even that little monster could ruin the mood.
Still, he was putting up his best efforts to not give any signs of nervousness, he could tell his heart was beating a little faster than usual and, with Yukito laying over his chest, the other was probably hearing it. 
Letting his mind drift away in thoughts, the feeling of Yukito’s touch on his side called him back to reality. Tilting his head down, he moved one hand through the boy’s hair, pushing a few strands away from his face.
“Hm? What is it, Yuki?”
“Ah, did I wake you up, Toya?”
“No no, I wasn’t sleeping, just thinking.”
“Right…”
“So, what was it?”
“Actually, nothing, hahah… I guess I was just fiddling with your shirt while I was lost in thought, did it bother you?”
“No, it just felt a little ticklish.”
That sentence caught Yukito's attention. Come to think of it, had Touya told him that before? Or had he simply forgotten something like that? Either way, it wouldn’t be settled with just that. Eying down the other’s torso, Yukito wondered where his touches would be the most effective.
His sides? Tummy? Ribs? His hips, perhaps? Maybe if he tested a few at once he coul-
“Yukito.”
“Y-yes, Touya?” He answered quickly, trying to hide the mischief in his voice. Touya chuckled.
“What got you so interested in my body? You want to tickle me?”
And before Yukito could defend himself from the accusations, the brunette pinched his cheek, pulling the skin playfully before letting it go, making the boy whine.
“It’s obvious, it’s all over your face right after I said that,” Touya continued, smiling. “I don’t mind it.”
Yukito blinked a few times, giggling to himself as he laid his head down again on Touya’s chest and started wiggling his fingers over the other’s sides and lower stomach.
“I see… and how ticklish are you, Touya?” He spoke softly, dragging his nails around, going to Touya’s lower ribs before making his way back to his waist.
“Ahah- a bihit, I thihink…”  Touya laughed tiredly, pressing his eyes closed whenever Yukito moved his fingers close to ribs.
“You sound so cute when you’re laughing like this, Touya,” he continued, deciding to claw at his friend’s stomach. Yukito could feel how the other’s body twitched and trembled under his touch, but not really moving away or trying to avoid it. 
“Y-Yuhuhuki, eheheh, don’t tehehase me,” he tried to scold the boy, finding himself in the middle of another fit of laughter. He had to admit, he didn’t remember being this ticklish. It was all meant to be a little cuddling before sleep, but now, there was him, laughing his head off because of a few well aimed touches on body.
“I’m not teasing you, I just found it cute”, Yukito explained, sneaking his hand inside Touya’s shirt to scribble at the boy’s bare side. 
“Hehehey! Ahahah, n-not thehere, Yuki! ~”
“Oh, you didn’t seem to be this ticklish here before,” he muttered, now teasing the other on purpose. Squeezing his sides a few more times, Yukito decided to give him a break, changing the tickling for a soft massage as he gently rubbed the boy’s skin to help him calm down.
“A-ahah… h-had enough already?”
“For now, yes,” Yukito chuckled, moving his head up a little to peck at Touya’s cheek, “but we should really sleep now.”
“Yes, yes…” The brunette sighed, stretching his arms before wrap them around Yukito, pulling him into a tight hug.
“T-Touya..!”
“You own me after tickling me like that,” he smiled, “let’s just cuddle a little more, then we sleep, ok?”
“Heheh… alright, alright…” He giggled, patting the other back before pressing his head a little more into his shoulder. 
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A/N:  I guess this was my first BL shipp. Back when I watched Sakura Card Captor for the first time, I barely knew what was going on, I just thought they were a really good couple! Anyway, I’m glad I’m finally writing something for them! Who knows, maybe they will make another comeback at my blog later on? ~ Anyway, hope you enjoyed your reading!
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skyflyinginaction · 1 year
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Clamp Art Style Analysis: Part 5: Examining Concept art: Blood C
Besides Code Geauss and Kabuki Bu Clamp were in charge of Blood C having had a hand in character designs Blood C was the other animation production like Code Geass there was no detailed order on the designs Clamp had the freedom to decide the character designs for the characters. Clamp never watched the original film or the Plus series Clamp designed the Blood C design while Clamp was drawing Kobato they used their creation process for the designs in deciding Blood C’S designs. Blood C concept art is much more detailed than Code Geass, the concept art though detailed had many lines having defined clear sketches with the same fine pencil lines from a mechanical pencil. 
Saya’s design was entirely different from the two protagonists' designs from the film and series. Clamp added glasses in her design The glasses in her design symbolize her change and transformation in the series the glasses are used to note her transformation.  There are many lines in Saya's concept art,
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even Clamp did a pencil sketch of Saya and then drew it on the computer. 
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There are not a lot of lines in short hair as seen with Itsuki and Fumito, Itsuki’s bangs don’t require too many lines.
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I could agree that Fumito doesn’t have a lot of lines in his side bangs.
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Most of the characters in Blood C come from the type of characters you would see in Clamp’s works,  Itsuki and Shinichiro resemble Toya and Yukito fitting since drawn by the same artist.
When looking at the concept art of Yuka, her hair is a fringe cut on the right side. The fringe cut gives in her hairstyle a sense of imbalance.
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That side bang is drawn as part of the hair as part of Yuka's hairstyle. You don’t see the root of the hair but part of it.  The fringe doesn’t have a root or source to where it's drawn. The same goes for how the hair is done in the concept art looking at Yuka’s concept art in how the lines flow in her design, the lines of the fringe were drawn first then the lines at the bottom make it look straight. 
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Blood C designs took references from real people and even added them to their appearances. The notes on Yuka’s appearance such as her large lips were taken from Angelina Jolie; the details of character designs appearances come from real people. 
The designs of Blood C are a bit more realistic seen with Kanako, Kanako’s hair is divided into sections in her concept art, her hair is drawn in one big shape and a big bundle like you would draw from a photograph.
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The bangs of Kanako are swept to the right side and have wavy curvy lines that flow to the side.
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When it comes to hair it's about the amount of lines and the shape of the hair; this can’t be true for Kanako, Nene, and Nono. Nene and nonos have curved lines for their hair.
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Their hair has a shape for their curved hair.
In my observation X or Tsubasa are done by a regular pencil due to the messy lines. The rest is done by a mechanical pencil due to how clean the lines are.
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mysticdragon3md3 · 1 year
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CANONICALLY QUEER ANIME CHARACTERS THAT I REMEMBERED BUT WEREN'T ON THIS ARTICLE'S LIST:
Date Masamune Daley Wong Motoko Kusanagi Jakotsu Toru Shiro & Saya Monou Toya Kinomoto & Yukito Tsukishiro Tomoyo Daidouji Subaru Sumeragi & Seishiro Sakurazuka Utena Tenjou & Anthy Himemiya Juri Arisugawa & Shiori Takatsuki Suletta Mercury & Miorine Rembran Kenjiro Hato Sailor Uranus & Sailor Neptune Fatora Venus & Alielle
Have these poor otaku not heard of Date Masamune? Famously bisexual historical figure with MANY anime and videogame portrayals? Half his dialogue with Sanada Yukimura in "Sengoku Basara" (2009-2011) is just flirting. Heck, last year, I saw a little kids' anime with a Date Masamune cat whose whole gimmick is having a crush on the male main character cat! I just watched episode 6 to refresh my memory, and Masamunya is daydreaming about marrying Nyanpire!
And what about Daley Wong? He is canonically gay. Do otaku these days not know about "Bubblegum Crisis"???? That was standard issue anime watching when I got into anime! A fundamental scifi series! It even got a remake, "Bubblegum Crisis 2040", which didn't change Daley's openly gay status.
Motoko Kusanagi from "Ghost in the Shell" is canonically gay. The movies may skip over that, but the longer format series usually show her girlfriends or have her coworkers mention what a womanizer she is. I'm a little confused about that episode where she talked about having a childhood crush on a boy---the one who was hesitant about getting a prosthetic body because they weren't dexterous enough to make origami cranes at the time---while the rest of the series seems to portray her as a lesbian. So I'm not 100% sure if she's gay or bi.
There's also Jakotsu from Inuyasha. Not a regular character, but part of the Shichinintai (Band of Seven) who were reoccurring antagonists for several episodes until they were defeated. Maybe a little stereotypey, but a canonically openly gay anime character.
CLAMP has several gay couples. Unfortunately they do like to use them for tragedy, unrequited love, and the "bury your gays" trope.
We've got "X" (series known as "X/1999" in English localization) with Toru and Saya. A lesbian couple so in love that when it was prophesied that Toru would die, giving birth to the Sacred Sword at the Togakushi Shrine, Saya found a loophole, married the Shinto priest at Togakushi Shrine to ensure she would constantly be at that location, and thus became the one who died instead of Toru, giving birth to the Sacred Sword. I think the anime changed things so that Saya said she fell in love with her husband Kyogo Monou instead, or downplayed her feelings for Toru, or something I'm misremembering, but I grew up with CLAMP's manga, and that's what I go by. Besides, the plot later explains that the whole reason Saya's spirt ended up in the Sea of Tears is because she married a man she didn't love, while fully knowing that she was in love with another woman instead.
"Cardcaptor Sakura" has several queer couples. We've got Toya and Yukito. The teacher Toya dated before Yukito, could see the future, and she specifically broke up with Toya because she foresaw he would fall in love more deeply with Yukito in the future. And when she and Toya met again, she asked Toya if he was happy (being with Yukito), and he said yes. Unless I'm misremembering, the manga also has a panel or 2 explaining that Tomoyo was coincidentally repeating her mother's unrequited sapphic crush on Sakura's mother, by she herself having an unrequited sapphic crush on Sakura. But I just checked the Wiki and there was apparently a lot of weird editing mistakes in the manga that made Tomoyo seem straight, and then CLAMP had to use several interviews and future manga issues to clear up that Tomoyo's crush was actually on Sakura. O.o
I've had "Tokyo Babylon" on my shelf for years, but haven't finished the manga or the anime disks that I bought. lol But from my understanding, that whole series is steeped in the crush between the male leads, Subaru and Seishiro. And then it culminates in "X", because that series was a crossover continuation of several CLAMP series. During "Tokyo Babylon", Seishiro has this hidden omen running in his family about being destined to be killed by the person he loves the most. Within "X", Seishiro is killed by Subaru.
And how can we forget "Revolutionary Girl Utena"? Even if the series doesn't outright state them as gay, the whole series is built around their romance and then the movie has them out-right kiss. And it's not an accident situation or an animation that happens for only 2 frames, or something. It's an actual, romantic kiss, center-frame, as the resolution of that movie. Also Juri and Shiori are doing some unrequited things that I can't remember. But I remember Shiori being kind of toxic in the movie, like she was trying to make Juri jealous?
Speaking of Utena, "Gundam: the Witch From Mercury" is often compared to following Utena's outline, right down to the sapphic couple at the center. The series is still going, and I haven't been able to watch all the episodes so far, but if they truly homage Utena, they will advance from all their romance tropes between Suletta and Miorine, into hopefully an outright declaration of queer love. Here's hoping. <3
Can we count Kenjiro Hato from "Genshiken: Second Generation"? Because I don't know if they're "canonically" queer or not. Do we count them as "canonically" queer if they don't state they're queer? So much of that series is Hato still trying to figure out how they feel about crossdressing, about Harunobu Madarame, and being a fudanshi. I can't remember if Hato ever came to terms with any conclusions about themself. I can't remember if Hato ever definitely stated being in love with Madarame, or just spent all that time not quite understanding their own feelings. Is Hato a trans egg? Or is Hato genderfluid? Or did they just never figure that out about themself? Does Hato still identify as "male" by the end of the series? I don't remember! (But I'm sorry the series framed how Yoshitake treated you as a joke, because that was really uncomfortable.)
And how did I forget Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune? So famously gay, that when the first English dub tried to censor their relationship for the localization, it just turned into awkward "cousin loving cousin" dubs.
Almost forgot Princess Fatora and Alielle from "El Hazard: The Magnificent World". One of the first isekai genre series I watched. Fatora doesn't appear for most of the series, since she is a prisoner of the antagonists. But her girlfriend, Alielle, is in most of the OAV series. I remember them being very clearly lesbians, and after Fatora is rescued, I think they spent a lot of the sequel series chasing around the other girls in the cast.
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roserozu22 · 3 years
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I'm plannig a Cardcaptor Sakura au!
I hope you all look forward to it
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sailor-moon-rei · 1 year
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by 枫澜似水
art republished with artist’s permission
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wooang-angmako · 6 years
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Credits by me: LIAH♡
Please do not steal♡
Won myself a notebook and clear file set from the CCS Clear Card Hen ichiban kuji💕
I just had to draw them in the notebook💕💖
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spiritsncrystals · 5 years
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I forgot how much i love Tsubasa
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m0dernv4mpire · 5 years
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This is 100% a self indulgent doodle and I have no shame.
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mimikyuno · 5 years
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help needed!! should i:
continue digimon tamers (i still have 40+ eps to watch) -> im a digimon freak
start hxh 2011 (167 eps) -> i just already love killua + my friend is obsessed and i wanna know the big deal
start ccs (70 eps) -> toya and yukito are driving me to watch this + its a must watch
start penguindrum (24 eps) -> ikuhara stan here i am!!
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kikyoshirax · 7 years
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Touya and Yukito in Cardcaptor Sakura: Clear Card Episode 2
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Been rewatching CCS with Ari lately. Trying to get her into CLAMP stuff. So far, it's working.
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frobby · 2 years
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sometimes behind your boyfriend is a slightly eviler version of your boyfriend and ur just gonna have to live with that
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