#tommy the pandora principle

[schn-tgai-saavik]

Original Characters from The Pandora Principle by Carolyn Clowes

The novel has a lot of original character interwoven and expertly used alongside known Star Trek ones, and they deserve their own post.

Part 4: The Baseball Team Cadets

Koji: A large, husky cadet who plays as catcher in the baseball team. He is present at the tryouts and catches as Saavik pitches after her first throw knocking out the coach.

Walker: Player who was considered an inept pitcher, yet the only one who could throw straight before Saavik's arrival to the team.

Coach Joe: The coach of the baseball team, who is quite worried at the lack of pitcher before Saavik's arrival to the tryouts. He is a seemingly irritated, and apparently because he has other problems. He is described as having brown skin. (Given his name and link to baseball, he could be Joseph Sisko, father of Benjamin Sisko from DS9, a fun easter egg if I am correct!)

Tommy: Pink skinned human with spotty skin, he is along with Coach Joe one of the team's leaders, likely the team captain. He agrees to Saavik trying out for the team even as Coach Joe dismisses her at first, explaining to her the rudiment of pitching.

[appleflavoredkitkats]

fuck it. ultimate dsmp quiz because i want to hear people deliberate about it again. answer some (or all) of the questions in the tags/reblogs, but do not start fights!

what did l'manberg ultimately mean to each of its members, and why did wilbur blow it up on november 16th?

why did dream pursue the path of villainy?

what was quackity's justification for the creation of las nevadas, and where did those principles originate?

explain how techno views allyship, from his more secure allies in the syndicate, to shorter-lived allies like with dream and tommy

how did sam justify why leaving tommy in the prison was a safer option, even if it meant risking his death?

why did schlatt die, and what did his short-lived arc in manberg represent?

what was wilbur truly aiming for when asking different members of the smp for forgiveness?

what did ranboo mean by his preference of being truly factionless?

define wilbur and fundy's father-son relationship (bonus if you can extend it to phil)

what did eret's betrayal signify for the dream smp's overall theme?

what did the inbetween and the other side really mean?

describe the egg, its powers and its weaknesses

what did tommy's discs signify?

why was memory such a prevalent issue in the dsmp?

what is enderwalking?

how did the community house explode?

how do you revive someone via the revival book?

what is limbo and what were the different states of limbo each dead person experienced?

why did phil kill wilbur?

how did sam have multiple bodies/personas?

what was the importance of outsider perspective, both found in phil and michael mcchill's respective lore?

who was pandora's vault built for?

who is dreamxd?

what is the overall attempted general theme of the dream smp?

how would you have changed the dsmp?

[tagaloak]

thinking about how jake's life on pandora was meant for his brother, tommy (dr. tom sully). tommy was the scientist. tommy was the older brother with the leveled head and personable sense of rationality. even jake's avatar was meant for tommy, tailored for tommy's neurological patterns, physiology, and personality. tommy was the one who dreamed of helping and learning from the omatikaya clan, he respected them and saw them as people. before pandora, before eywa, jake was just an ex-marine, a brawler, a jaded drunk... but through jake, through eywa, tommy was able to live on. when jake had fused with tommy's avatar, he had also fused with a piece of tommy. two brothers had became one; jake essentially has "two souls" and this is why eywa chose them. i think a lot about how we see jake and tommy in their sons. neteyam adopted tommy's calm spirit, his sense of duty. lo'ak adopted jake's brazenness and propensity to rebel against the status quo, trying new things on his own terms, his own way. the sully brothers are two different sides of jake (and tommy). their spirits were split into two brothers. this created a fierce bond between them. but it also meant that, unlike jake, lo'ak did not have tommy's principled reservations. it all went to neteyam. instead lo'ak is impulsve, even "rude" and "strange" by na'vi standards, like jake. consequently, it was difficult for lo'ak to "fit in" or feel accepted by the omatikaya clan. before becoming a part of the metkayina clan, he felt that his immediate family were the only ones who truly understood him.

[ninma]

A look at Dream's punishment through irl rules and taking into account UN's rules regarding prisons. Because it is just interesting and it proves how there is NO justification for it. But mostly because it's interesting to look at and you may learn a thing or two.

I have seen too many times people trying to justify Dream's punishment. I did research and read through multiple articles and documents (over 73 pages of two different documents) about the more legal sides of his punishment. While Quackity's physical torture is obvious, I am here to address that even before that it was still very illegal. I know it is fictional! This is just a look into the real life facts and rules regarding prisons because it is interesting to look at Dream's punishment and Pandora's Vault under the light of these. So keep that in mind while reading this!

Welcome to my ted talk with actual facts and be prepared for quite the ride!

While yes, he has done bad things...however he has not done something so bad that he deserves a punishment so cruel that it's considered too inhumane for even mass murderers. Like actually! Stay tooned and you'll see what I mean.

His sentence is indefinite solidary confinement. Which is defined by the united nations as:

"the confinement of prisoners for 22 hours or more a day without meaningful human contact."

This means his punishment fits the definition for all his time (including visits) except when Tommy was locked inn and now with Quackity (although I'd consider the last one a turn for the worse). Now that we have that cleared up- lets get into the rule breaking. But first, let me introduce you to The Mandela Rules!

"The Mandela Rules reinforce human rights principles, including

 the recognition of the absolute prohibition of torture and other cruel, inhuman

 or degrading treatment or punishment and effective guidance 

to national prison administrations for persons deprived of their liberty"

Now that we have established that, lets get into this concerning fact train!

Rule 43

1. In no circumstances may restrictions or disciplinary sanctions amount to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

The following practices, in particular, shall be prohibited:

(a) Indefinite solitary confinement;

(b) Prolonged solitary confinement;

(c) Placement of a prisoner in a dark or constantly lit cell;

(d) Corporal punishment or the reduction of a prisoner’s diet or drinking water;

(e) Collective punishment.

Yeah...pretty clear breaking of 4/5 there. They can't even break e! Not to mention the pretty explicit breaking of d that was probably a surprise. You can count it as them breaking 4/4 if you count the fact that they can’t even break e. Rest assured my friend, this is just the beginning.

Rule 44

For the purpose of these rules, solitary confinement shall refer to the confinement of prisoners for 22

 hours or more a day without meaningful human contact. Prolonged solitary confinement shall refer to 

solitary confinement for a time period in excess of 15 consecutive days.

Already broken this one too huh. Even visiting days counts because I don't think anyone has been there for hours and I also don't think Sam's interactions would be long enough or count as meaningful human contact. The time with Tommy and Quackity is the only time it dosen't count as solidary. So this is getting...very much concerinng. But this is still only the start.

Rule 45

1. Solitary confinement shall be used only in exceptional cases as a last

 resort*, for as* short a time as possible and subject to independent

 review, and only pursuant to the authorization by a competent authority. It

 shall not be imposed by virtue of a prisoner’s sentence.

2. The imposition of solitary confinement should be prohibited in the case

 of prisoners with mental or physical disabilities when their conditions

 would be exacerbated by such measures

Woops...so not only is it illegal as a punishment...but also the "he is a psychopath" argument (which is already a bad stereotype, but I won't get into psychology here. It's a common misconception and c!Tommy not knowing is almost to be expected. However please do not say that someone, character or real person, have a mental disorder or illness without proper knowledge about psychology and in the case of characters we shouldn’t put labels unless the writer has said that they have taken mental disorders or illnesses into account when making the character) just got yeeted out the window. Actually that argument just took a loop and now is an argument for the other side. It makes sense because as it says: it exacerbates their preexisting mental illnesses. Which is why it's prohibited. 

"In no case may a detainee’s contact with the outside world be

 dependent on his or her cooperativeness, be used as a disciplinary

 sanction or form part of the sentence."

  - Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, Civil and Political Rights, Including the Questions of Torture and Detention, ¶ 43, Comm’n on Human Rights,

“…The medical officer should visit prisoners held in solitary confinement

 every day, on the understanding that such visits should be in the interests

 of the prisoners ’ health. Furthermore, prisoners held in solitary

 confinement for more than 12 hours should have access to fresh air for at

 least 1 hour each day” - Subcomm. on Prevention of Torture [SPT]

Wow Sam...it is almost impressive in a dark way just how explicitly these are broken. The Warden's very punishments for disobedience just straight up counts as torture. And for the obvious record I highly doubt Quackity's daily visits to the green bloob counts as anything but 'the interests of the prisoners' health'. You can disagree here...but I am being very sarcastic.

Rule 22

1. Every prisoner shall be provided by the prison administration at the

usual hours with food of nutritional value adequate for health and

strength, of wholesome quality and well prepared and served.

Raw potatoes every day for the rest of your life..eehhh no thanks. If Dream ever gets out he will probably join me in the 'eating potatoes trauma' box. As funny as that sounds, it isn't a joke. I was force fed potatoes as a child and I hated it to the point where it gave me a mental block that stops me from eating them as my body just does not want to swallow it. It's a problem. But I can joke about it. Maybe Tommy will join us too, although it wasn't really the eating potatoes that caused that trauma...rip. Rest in anything but potatoes.

Rule 42

General living conditions addressed in these rules, including those related

to light, ventilation, temperature, sanitation, nutrition, drinking water,

access to open air and physical exercise, personal hygiene, health care

and adequate personal space, shall apply to all prisoners without

 exception.

I think it's pointless to say more on that topic as it's pretty much already summed up. Let us now move over to what are probably some of the qoutes so specific that it's scary.

“Furthermore, [the Committee] is concerned about the use of solitary

 confinement for indefinite periods of time.... Full isolation of 22 to 23

 hours a day in supermaximum security prisons is unacceptable

(art. 16).” - Committee. against Torture [CAT]

Oh wow.. talk about on the nose. I should've just started with this one as it pretty much says pretty clearly how it is unacceptable. Like yikes...can you get more specific? It is just downright ridiculous at this point. (-_-;)

“Solitary confinement, when used for the purpose of punishment,

 cannot be justified for any reason, precisely because it imposes severe

 mental pain and suffering beyond any reasonable retribution for

 criminal behaviour and thus constitutes an act defined in article 1 or article

 16 of the Convention against Torture, and a breach of article 7 of the

 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights."

Ahaha...ha....yeah for those who justify it...the convention against torture is very much against it being justified...Imagine if the characters could read these rules, that'd be interesting. Although I am pretty sure they don't follow realism for the imprisonment. As I have already said; this is just an interesting look at the irl rules and how Dream's punishment and Pandora's Vault stand under light of them.

“No prisoner, including those serving life sentence [sic] and prisoners on

 death row, shall be held in solitary confinement merely because of the

 gravity of the crime.”

 - Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

Like...there are no loopholes here. It is so extremely clear that it truly is darkly impressive how the characters don't seem to have a second thought about this. How do you accidentally sentence someone to a lifetime of torture without realizing? If they do know...It'd be very dark.

Btw Tommy's exile and his time in prison doesn't count as solidary confinement. Just to clear that up.

It amazes me how badly they break these rules...I know they probably didn't take the realism into consideration. However it is still kind of darkly impressive. Especially considering how scary specific they break them too. Even though this is just a interesting (I was about to write fun, however I wouldn't count realizing how inhuman the prison is is 'fun'. But it is interesting) look at Dream's punishment and Pandora's Vault under the light of real life rules for prisons. (lol my paranoid self have said this so much)

These facts also proves how saying it's justified...is kind of morally bad. Not attacking anyone! I just want to also say how while it is pure fiction and the characters in the story can have whatever opinion they want as they are characters. However when it comes to fans approving and justifying it without taking time to consider how it really isn't something that can be justified (real or no). You can have whatever opinion you want, however just maybe take some of what you have learned today and reflect over it? To think twice after having received new information dosen't hurt. I am not here to tell you what to think, so rest easy. Only to share some facts^^ (*so obviously scared of offending anyone*)

I recommend taking some time to look it up yourself if you want to look further into it. The psychological aspects of it is also interesting to look at!

I hope you have learned something here today and found this post and my research interesting! I spent hours on this so I hope you have enjoyed this! I originally posted this on reddit and I was very surprised at how many stopped by to read it and therefore I choose to post it here as well because you learn something and hopefully also gained a new perspective. 

Ninma over and out!

[tack-tick]

I’m super excited for when Pandora’s Box comes into play purely because I think it would be funny for the SMP to go from Greek mythology to heist movie.

I really hope Philza gets put in there because I want to see Techno when he’s really against someone. We haven’t really seen Techno gunning for anyone specific yet. Techno not acting as snarky as her normally does and being deadly serious because it’s not his life on the line. Most of the time when he fights against someone it’s not because they’ve personally wronged him but because they went against his anti-government principles. The closest we’ve gotten is The Butcher Gang but they didn’t put up much of a fight like Pandora’s Box will.

Plus, there’s major angst potential in Techno being forced to choose between Tommy and Philza if it came to that. I honestly don’t really know who he would chose.

Plus irony of Philza being in house arrest times 100

[findingjoynweirdstuff]

I love everything about this arc except the fact that Dream is being made to be the Ultimate Villain. Please, please can we go back to when he was morally gray and we liked him but couldn't quite trust him? I miss that Dream so much...if they're going to write such a dark arc for c!Dream they better make a redemption arc for him afterwards, because it's slowly been getting depressing...I don't want to STOP liking him, you feel me?

Yeah, I get ya!

I think there’s still plenty of gray morality to Dream’s character right now. What he’s doing to Tommy is undeniably cruel, but Dream's principles of peace-keeping and justice still remain. I think the most clear demonstration of that was during the Mexican L’manburg Revolution. Quackity was in the wrong there, not Dream, and I think that stream was one of the ones with the most “Dream declaring his philosophies and motivations” of any recently, combined with the stream preceding it where Quackity dragged Dream into a moral debate.

Idk if ur the same anon or not but I also got another anon asking about whether there’s some hope for Dream being a good friend/mentor to Tommy, and I do think there’s some hope for redemption at some point. 

I think the Pandora’s Vault plot may be the key. The stream where Dream was there building it with Sam, Bad and the others also revealed some key details about Dream’s motivations, specifically when it came to Pogtopia. He said that he switched sides because of something Schlatt gave him that would put him in danger if it got out. What I took this as, was that Dream’s side switch was genuine. He actually was on Pogtopia’s sides for the reasons he stated. He actually did have a change of heart about L’manburg. Those times in Pogtopia where Dream sided with Tommy, fought alongside him, still stand. I think Dream’s a bit more like Wilbur, going through his “corruption arc,” which is weird to say of someone who was already a villain, but what I mean by that is that all this manipulation, saying he no longer cares about Spirit, pushing away Sapnap and George - Dream’s been corrupted. He wasn’t like this before. Not in the L’manburg Revolution, not in the Disc War...this is new development.

So for those same reasons, I think it’s possible for Dream’s corruption arc to revert into redemption. I think that he can return to the person he was before, but a lot has to change in order for that to happen. What I do not think is that Dream is genuinely working towards Tommy’s best interests right now. But are they friends? To be honest...kind of. They’ve always had a friendly rivalry, teamed up on occasion. Right now Dream’s trying to use that past friendship as a tool. 

But did Dream never care about Tommy? I don’t think so. And I do think there’s the possibility for recovery later on. Will they go in that direction with the plot, though? Idk, we’ll just have to see.

[heathnewfashion-blog]

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[starrylexlaura]

I'm going to answer this as unseriously as I possibly can

1. L'Manberg meant free drugs for all its members. Wilbur blew it up 'cause he was going through withdrawl

2. Dream pursued villainy 'cause he's a little beta bitch that's why

3. Quackity created Las Nevadas because he needed to feed his gambling addiction and drugs. His principles originated from the fact that L'Manberg blew up and he couldn't get free drugs anymore

4. Techno views his allyships as "We need to destroy the government and kill as much kids as possible" and then got hurt because Tommy was like "no". Unfortunately for Techno he also owed a homeless guy a favour so more unreliable people for him

5. Sam was on a honeymoon with his beautiful wife Ponk and wasn't able to hear Tommy's scream from the romantic slurping of drug laced spaghetti

6. Schlatt died because he decided he really fucking hated his liver and taste buds. Bro choose drinkable piss over his drug ridden country

7. Wilbur asked the people for forgiveness because he really needed more drugs. Limbo Rehab was shit

8. Ranboo,by saying he was factionless,meant it as a more discreet way of saying he was born with a genetic disease which causes a lack of the bones commonly known as "spine".

9. Philza is a bird that had a human son that fucked a fish and had a fox son. He then proceeded to neglect said son because mmmmm drugs

10. Your honour, the king was being a bad bitch and saying no to drugs. Can't she serve and deliver cunt once in a while?

11. The inbetween...you mean the thing that didn't matter in the end and wasn't expanded upon because the ccs decided to nuke everything? I guess it meant something for sure

12. A red pulsating egg that escaped from someone's fridge. Its power are hallucinogens and its weaknesses are rehab

13. Tommy's discs signified vinyl music discs and they showed just how much of a LITTLE WHINY BITCH dream was (hate that little fuck)

14. Because of the drugs

15. I feel like enderwalking was a state Ranboo got in when he did too many drugs and smoked so much weed he reverted back to his primary enderman headspace

16. The community house exploded because dream was a little whiny annoying cryptic blubbering greasy bitch

17. You can revive someone by simply shoving coke up their nostril. Dream didn't have that though so he used his dead cat's bone ashes

18. Limbo,as said before,was Rehab and all the deads experienced the stages of grief through it. Schlatt= denial Wilbur= anger MD= bargaining Tommy= depression Ranboo= acceptance

19. Phil killed Wilbur because he couldn't bare with the fact his son was a gay junkie

20. Sam was unfortunately targeted by the egg's hallucinogenic shrooms and spores

21. The outsider's perspective is really important because Phil and Michealmcchill were the only sober people on the smp therefore they could see just how high everyone was 24/7

22. Pandora's vault was built for Tommy who started telling everyone he was the messiah after having eaten strangely shaped mushrooms near some red vines

24. The overall attempted general theme of the dsmp was trying to show what happens when you give drugs and weed to already mentally ill people

25. I would've changed the dsmp by saving everyone and making sure drugs didn't exist (or I would've made them rain from the sky every full moon just to see what happens)

Dsmp actually stands for "drug smp"

fuck it. ultimate dsmp quiz because i want to hear people deliberate about it again. answer some (or all) of the questions in the tags/reblogs, but do not start fights!

what did l'manberg ultimately mean to each of its members, and why did wilbur blow it up on november 16th?

why did dream pursue the path of villainy?

what was quackity's justification for the creation of las nevadas, and where did those principles originate?

explain how techno views allyship, from his more secure allies in the syndicate, to shorter-lived allies like with dream and tommy

how did sam justify why leaving tommy in the prison was a safer option, even if it meant risking his death?

why did schlatt die, and what did his short-lived arc in manberg represent?

what was wilbur truly aiming for when asking different members of the smp for forgiveness?

what did ranboo mean by his preference of being truly factionless?

define wilbur and fundy's father-son relationship (bonus if you can extend it to phil)

what did eret's betrayal signify for the dream smp's overall theme?

what did the inbetween and the other side really mean?

describe the egg, its powers and its weaknesses

what did tommy's discs signify?

why was memory such a prevalent issue in the dsmp?

what is enderwalking?

how did the community house explode?

how do you revive someone via the revival book?

what is limbo and what were the different states of limbo each dead person experienced?

why did phil kill wilbur?

how did sam have multiple bodies/personas?

what was the importance of outsider perspective, both found in phil and michael mcchill's respective lore?

who was pandora's vault built for?

who is dreamxd?

what is the overall attempted general theme of the dream smp?

how would you have changed the dsmp?