#tom taylor is a shit writer

[sylvieserene]

Why are people so defendent of Tom Taylor (DC)? Like people on reddit subs treat him as some sort of Saint incapable of flaws and with top notch flawless writing....I'm actually baffled that people defend actual valid criticism of his Nightwing run with "You are just a chronic hater" , "DickBabs hater" , "Toxic DickKory fan" , some even accusing that you're a LGBTQ+/Liberal thoughts hater 💀

Like guys....he's not a God. He is just a human calm down....

I have never really made a post about him specifically since I like to keep my blog positive but um what's wrong with the fan base??

I recently made a post on reddit discussing the "Wisely and Ethically invested money" Alfred's letter scene of the Nightwing (2016) run by Taylor and ppl are actually telling me I'm the problem since these details don't matter and that I'm an idiot for looking into it? (Some of them don't even clarify why and make pretty bad comparisons/points) Like uh what

You are telling me Dick Grayson , the same guy who turned down a whole rich funding from a shady guy at one point wouldn't care on how Alfred somehow managed to have more money than Bruce Wayne ???? And the only explanation we get is that it was invested WISELY & ETHICALLY?!

Like bro depending on the continuity, Alfred has killed people in his run as a spy in England, he is not too innocent and his definition of morals and ethics can differ ALOT from us.

If TT did act on it other than the bland/low stake stuff he's been doing, we could have had a pretty good stake in the game since that money would matter quite a lot (its too relevant to the plot) and would put Dick into a dilemma on if he should use it or not incase he found out its origins...It would have actually led to Character development...

Like what's wrong in pointing out bad writing? You have to show or atleast show implications for things not just spell it out.... just saying "Character A did good things" isn't enough. You need to show what good things Character A did.

Im genuinely curious as to what exactly is this fan base...and what's wrong with it since....how is this question even dumb?

For people curious on the post, here's the link to it. Feel free to read and share your opinions!

[sylvieserene]

What did you do Tom Taylor

Bruh

WHY

bruce wayne becoming nightwing reminds me of those mums that are like 'im sooo skinny, i can fit into my preteen daughter's clothes!!!' but like. with vigilante personas

[fishfingersandjellybabies]

Like i’ve said before, because of the hot mess that was last year/my last job, I’m like a year behind on comics. On top of that I still hate the bullshit that is tom taylor writing Nightwing so put it off allllll the time.

Anyway I just read Nightwing 100 and im just CACKLING at what was supposed to be that emotional father-son scene with bruce where he’s like LOVE YA DAD because all I can think about is batman 138 where dick beat the fucking SHIT out of him. How far apart were these issues, a year? Not even?

Comics are so fucking stupid, i swear.

[phfenomena]

❝’cause we were somewhere else.❞ || tom blyth x f!reader

| request- could you do paris by taylor swift with tom??

| A/N- cutest idea i’ve ever heard thank you 🙏 super short but i tried my hardest

| WARNINGS- fluffy lovey dovey shit, france (WTF IS A KILOMETER 🦅🇺🇸), running, me having writers block,

(divider by @v6que)

the air was thick with smoke and unspoken emotions as tom wrapped his arm around you waist in the crowded bar. one week in paris with your kind-of-boyfriend couldn’t hurt anybody, right? you thought so, until tonight. with the affectionate touches, the sharing drinks, and now, staring at the eiffel tower together.

the ancient architecture sparkled like clock-work, the reflection finding home in toms eyes. you couldn’t will herself to look away from him as your fingers intertwined.

“did you have fun tonight, love?” his thumb was moving back and forth across the back of your hand. you nodded, “yeah! i did. thank you for bringing me along for your press tour, it’s been really cool.”

stumble down pretend alley-ways, cheap wine; make believe it’s champagne.

the laughs erupted from your lungs uncontrollably as your feet tried to move your body in sync with toms, his hand pulling you quickly down the alley. the giggles shared between you two echoed down the alley-way and sounded like it was coming from everywhere, it felt like it too.

“you’re going too fast! i can’t keep up when i’m in heels!” you stuttered out in between sobs of laughter. “get longer legs!” tom throws over his shoulder and you resist the growing despair within you every time you see his smile, knowing the smile wasn’t yours to keep.

privacy sign on the door and on my page, and on the whole world. romance is not dead, if you keep it just yours.

the soft and hazy sun filtered through the sheer curtains, illuminating the room. illuminating him. your nails gently raked across his scalp as you studied his features, savoring the moment.

the small smile on your face widened when his eyes opened and flickered to yours. “g’morning, darling.” he shoved his face into his pillow, groaning, from the light. “good morning. you drool in your sleep, did you know that?” he side-eyes you before coming up with an answer. “i usually don’t, i just can’t help myself around you.”

i’m so in love that i might stop breathing, drew a map on your bedroom ceiling.

[sylvieserene]

Tbh at this point, it's obvious that this is just Taylor's fanfic but really badly written and made just for the sake of doing a lot of Dickbabs content even if it costs the characters' personalities

He is willing to sacrifice Dick's whole character just for a few laughs :/

Shameful

I literally can't take it anymore. I need to get this out of my system. This is a hate-rant about why almost every single thing Tom Taylor has written is wrong.

First and foremost is the bimbofication of Dick Grayson. Tom Taylor loves to write him like this idiot who doesn't think at all. Being cheerful does not mean being dumb.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #79

"You seem unusually contemplative"? All Dick does is contemplate!

Nightwing (1996) Issue #3

His mind is always running!

Nightwing (2011) Issue #13

Nightwing (2016) Issue #38

I just picked a random issue from all of these comics and in every single one of these, Dick's planning, thinking, and strategising constantly.

Tom Taylor literally treats him like he's stupid or something.

Also the degradation of his abilities

Nightwing (2016) Issue #79

A vigilante for 20 years. Who has faced assassins, hitmen, psychos, surprise attacks, metas, and you're telling me he didn't know that a untrained kid snuck up and stole from him?

He forgot who he was, he didn't forget where he lived! Even when he was Ric Grayson, Dick had procedural memory. His battle instincts stayed with him.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #52

"Then...I didn't even know what I was doing. I took him down--took him apart in seconds."

This man is a vigilante machine when he was amnesic. Why the heck would Dick ever let his guard down?

His robin reference

Nightwing (2016) Issue #92

Even Bruce in Batman: Hush has said it-Dick was the best. His skills were the best of anyone he's witnessed which is one of the reasons why Bruce let him be Robin in the first place.

This scene is so wrong that there's a robin scene that came out before this in direct opposition of this Tom Taylor Shitshow.

Robin & Batman Issue #1

This was actually pre-robin. Bruce had him do a solo-trial run to see his skill before he made him Robin and this was the result. Compare that to Tom Taylor's scene and the result is humiliating. For Taylor.

Tom Taylor's version of trying to show that Dick loves the people comes off as him hating crime-fighting. RIP the whole Robin firing drama and Nightwing birth i guess.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #79

"We could have avoided all of this if we'd just stayed in and eaten kibble."

Nightwing (1996) Issue #3

Dick would rather die than stop crime-fighting. After Blockbuster's first attempt, his life was hanging on by a thread and he still continued crime fighting.

Nightwing (1996) Issue #91

After Blockbuster blew up his apartment, this is the single-minded determination Dick had to continue crime-fighting. This is him at one of the worst lows of his life but he refused to give up but now? He has everything and Dick wants to ignore the murder of a child to stay inside and eat kibble which - what the heck? I know he's seen as a happy character but him finding dog-food desirable is too far!

Also the idiocy of which Tom Taylor had Barbara calling the cops in Bludhaven for a stolen wallet. Newsflash! This isn't her first rodeo here.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #81

vs

Nightwing (2016) Issue #24

Nightwing (2011) Issue #23

Given how Dick's easily defeated enhanced metas and "very good" fighters, him falling down the stairs is a little to absolutely impossible to believe.

Another thing I love about Dick that Tom Taylor deciminates is his grace. Dick is the most graceful person in DC. His balance easily matches Selina's enhanced cat powers.

But yet. You have.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #83

Nightwing (2011) Issue #23

yeah. okay.

Taylor's motorbike scenes of Dick make me so mad. The boy is a pro at crazy. It's one of his best traits because he does the wildest stunts and he pulls it off.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #93

Nightwing (1996) Issue #86

He lands on his feet. He grabbed a villain mid-air, crashed into a window, and was perfectly fine. Actually no, he's not fine because he's worried about his bike's paint job.

Nightwing (2011) Issue #24

He just sailed over a whole crowd of people and started kicking butt like what he just did wasn't extraordinary - which for him is just another tuesday.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #95

yeah, tell 'er Dick.

He doesn't need someone to hold his bike.

One of the worst things in Taylor's run is how Blockbuster went down. It suddenly reminded me of Selina's stupid ideology which is why I think I got so ticked off.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #96

Blockbusters' thugs loyalty to him isn't a make it or break it deal. He's one of strongest criminal organisations and the knowledge that he owns one of the worst prisons that he could easily put his underlings into would've instilled fear into his thugs, not freedom. Furthermore Blockbuster takes good care of his people that don't piss him off. He teamed up with Nightwing in the scarecrow era in Nightwing (2016) because someone was messing with his people. He's extremely intelligent and superstrong, and he's not just going to be brought down by the knowledge that he owns a prison. It's Bludhaven. If he didn't, then there would be something suspicious given that he runs the city. It's the way Taylor dumbs down Bludhaven's villains that gets to me. Imagine him writing Batman (2016). It's like saying, "yeah the Joker was just a little misguided but he found the right way again after a stern talking to by Batman."

Nightwing is a big name.

When Dick first came to Bludhaven, one of the police officers was like we don't want your crazy here or something. Also Bludhaven loves Nightwing. They want him.

So why is everyone pretending like they don't know who he is?

Nightwing (2016) Issue #90

The police, the citizens, the villains-all of them. Dick fought Brutale and beat the crap out of him way back in 1996 comic. He's a Bludhaven regular. Just because Dick forgot who he was doesn't mean anyone else forgot him. Amnesia doesn't work that way.

Nightwing (2016) Issue #54

A whole team of Nightwings were formed during Dick's amnesic period because of how badly he was needed and missed. It's almost like the Tom Taylor run is set in an alternate universe.

I ran out of image space but what the absolute fiddlesticks is up with Dick being scared to jump. It better be a manipulation tactic but at this point I think Tom Taylor doesn't even know that Dick is manipulative.

[freshie44]

So about Nothing Butt Nightwing

Look if you just wanted to write a funny little thing about Nightwing being an underwear model. Cool, I don't give a crap, maybe I'll see a screenshot and say "Nice". I still have canon Nightwing, Family Adventures, and Titans to read. Sure the butt joke is old and kinda of needs to be address, but I would be a hypocrite to say I've never used it myself. So if you want to bundle it all up in one package, go ahead. Beat that dead horse. But if you as the writer go and say well Dick Grayson doesn't have any hobbies and he has to model to win back Barbara. That the biggest insult to me, and made me a hater. Essentially you as the writer have shown you either aren't familiar with the character or just don't give a shit and will bend the character to match what it necessary. Both of which is NOT good writing technique. To me your basically saying that Dick doesn't have a personality outside of Nightwing and his relationships. You as the writer have spat in my face and my love for Dick as a character. It also does nothing for Barbara as a character, say what you will about Tom Taylor and Family Adventure but I for one enjoy her relationship with Dick in them. In fact we just recently got a great moment in Batman Family Adventure. So you could of just you know continue it and not use it as a CRUTCH to give a plot reason for the piece to exist! If you weren't confident in writing Barbara how about you just don't use her! All in all, very unimpressed with the project, and feel like I'm going to have deal with the trauma of people who only read this say "Dick doesn't have personality". To quote my friend and podcast partner, "you've done the great insult to me. You've written my favorite character incorrectly"

[mysterycitrus]

I love your takes and your characterisations and your understanding of the characters but the more I see your wonderful posts the more I feel like I am doing a really bad job at writing these characters and have no idea what I'm doing and that 9/10 times you're talking about me 😭 not a dig at all just me sucking

i sat on this ask for a bit cause i want to give u a proper answer so here it is — sincerely, my intentions here aren’t to act as the almighty authority on batman. seriously. i don’t want to deter people from creating their own works.

i yap a lot because i think the endemic issue of new fans being actively dissuaded from reading comics is bad for fandom and bad for the medium as a whole. there’s a reason why a lot of modern writing is dire for legacy characters with drastically differing characterisation — many writers haven’t looked through the catalogue for reference points to the stories they’re creating. that’s bad. that should not be encouraged, imo. it shouldn’t be this hostile against the source material. additionally, it’s important to be aware of the context and unconscious bias that’s reflected in both published comics and fanworks. it’s good to think about things and reflect! that teaches u the sort of stuff u personally enjoy too!!

truthfully, if u give a shit about these characters and are invested in writing well then nothing ive said has been a reflection on u. i honestly wasn’t sure people would like my interpretations of the characters until i started posting — writing persephone was more catharis than anything else. without externalising ur thoughts it can be very easy to spiral. that being said, if you’ve read any comic published before 2011 then ur doing better than many writers currently employed by dc comics, and u probably have a better understanding of quality storytelling than tom taylor 😊🫰

[madcapberry]

New Nightwing writer so I’m gonna start reading new Nightwing issues again :)))

Is there anything important I should know about Tom Taylor’s run? I did NOT keep up with that shit

[sylvieserene]

FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT

He should totally just step down from his position and Im actually so happy that he's finally leaving Nightwing alone (still stuck with him till September oof)

Fucking Finally.

Still going to be stuck with him on NW till likely SEPTEMBER, but hopefully this leads to a shakeup of writers and lines by Autumn.

...

I feel Taylor's Nightwing would have been less obnoxious if someone else was writing Titans, but Taylor having control of both Dick Grayson books was not a good move.

[zahri-melitor]

Okay, I see the angle of the complaints but you all really should chill out: Z starts Tom Taylor's Nightwing run

I am exactly one story arc into Taylor's Nightwing and I wanted to pause right at the start and chart out my feelings, because I do try to avoid commenting on these things until I actually see them myself, and I want a record of my feelings right now, where I just finished the Ric Grayson arc.

The problem isn't 'this is a bad Nightwing run' or 'this is an uncharacteristic Nightwing run'. I've read those. This is not Bruce Jones with TentaTodd or Tony S. Daniels' frankly meandering DickBats run on Batman (or Judd Winick's overlapping 'what if this was actually about Jason not Dick' stories) or the multitude of 'this isn't right for Dick' problems with the Seeley & King run of Grayson, or the entire Ric Grayson saga.

Because look, from the opening moves of this story, Taylor's doing a whole bunch of things that signal that he knows the stories he's working with.

It's set in Blüdhaven. It's using existing supporting cast who should be around. It's reflecting on and referencing previous Blüdhaven stories and and parts of Dick's background and linking things up and picking up old stories to work with.

Even just take Nightwing #78, the very first issue of the run, the first issue of Nightwing under Infinite Frontier policies: we see Taylor picking up the threads left by Tim Seeley's run, and dumping in a decent selection of Chuck Dixon and Devin Grayson references.

The very first thing Taylor has Blockbuster do is twist someone's head off, which is the exact same beat Blockbuster had on his introduction as a Nightwing villain in Nightwing #6 1996. My instantaneous thought was "oh shit, are we going to run a Dudley Soames plot?" because that's preboot Blockbuster. That's the guy who haunted Dixon and Grayson's runs, with a level of very personal violence that wasn't as clear in Seeley's portrayal.

Dick immediately points out his apartment building, which he owns, and which by implication he plans to have as affordable housing. Dick's apartment complex is obvious important during the Dixon and Grayson runs right up until it blows up. His apartment is empty looking and sad, because Dick's just moved back in; because Dick's terrible at unpacking; because Dick doesn't decorate until he feels comfortable with his situation.

He also sets up the first indications of the Heartless parallels he's planning to build.

Taylor's calling out the falling-and-catching themes of Nightwing and explicitly building them in and acknowledging how important they are to ground a run in terms of Dick's motivations and his fears.

It's even, as one of the markers I like to point out, using a Flying-Graysons-In-Robin-Costumes reflection from Bruce Redondo, and the choice of which costume to put the Flying Graysons in does actually say a lot about the trajectory and beats of the plot. It means Dick is being reflective and looking back and relying on his background, not pushing Bruce and his childhood away.

Also in the 'this is Infinite Frontier, it's all back baby!!!' category that I noticed: Dick's past as a cop is referenced; Barbara's law degree (though Dick having one as well is new-to-me); Barbara is tracking Dick and has eyes-on him (both the mask lens camera but also fond memories of Babs just having cameras all over Dick's apartment and him being perfectly fine with her 'watching'); Tim is the very second visitor Dick gets (after Babs) and the first thing they do is make terrible jokes and go train surfing; and Tim naming the dog a terrible pun (which he used to do to Dick's car and so on just to annoy him). And that's just stuff that immediately leapt out at me and not all of the layers and layers of artist and writer references layered in in the tribute way comics do.

He's even using the right villains, from Dick's actual rogues gallery: Brutale! Electrocutioner! Using the Maronis alongside Zucco for drama is clearly leaning into The Long Halloween and Dark Victory for a Dick origin! Dick does actually have the various Gotham crime families as an ongoing set of shared villains because Two-Face is one of his major enemies in his set of Gotham Rogues and all the themes around that.

The problem isn't that Taylor doesn't know what he's working with, or that he doesn't know where to pitch a Nightwing run, or that his writing sucks. It's that he doesn't deliver on the potential he's offering, and that's what is aggravating because it's close but not quite exactly what people want (but that's also the zone that generates some of the best fanfic, because the potential is there and people want to fix it).

My other immediate impression is that Taylor does, yes, fail to think through the implications of what he's just set up, in any meaningful sense. Which is probably why I've found his single issue stories and minis are generally fine to read; there's not enough space for the situation that's just been set up to come back around and whack the characters in the head; and in a longer run and some of what Taylor is setting up here, there are all sorts of threads possible to set up that you should expect to come back around and cause Dick problems later on, and from what everyone's said Taylor's had issues delivering on that.

Taylor gives Dick a fortune via Alfred's estate because he wants to play with the idea of Dick stepping into that role of philanthropist that Bruce is currently unable to occupy, and reflect on the differences between the characters. And it's a late delivery from the executor (Barbara) due to the whole Ric Grayson situation, so we don't actually see what other distributions Alfred made in his will: if he left anything for any of the other children he helped to raise; if he left anything for his own daughter Julia Pennyworth, and so on. (It's also a reflection of Bruce showing up and giving Dick his trust fund from his parents early on in Dixon's run to allow Dick to finance setting up as a vigilante, I will note)

It's a convenience for the plot. It's also clearly "Taylor hasn't stopped to think through how this would affect any other character". And look, he doesn't have to; he's writing Nightwing, not the entire Bat book line, and so a full discussion of probate is a bit silly in a book that does not and probably will not ever contain Julia Pennyworth.

It really feels like the problem is it's 'close enough but not quite' that the small aggravations build up on people, to the point that all they see is their frustration rather than the fact that at least 80% of the story is targeted in the right zone, where people want it to be.

(And hey! I will also say that, for instance, I find Tim Seeley's Nightwing run specifically to also fall into that 'close but not quite' zone where it gets Dick and it gets what a Nightwing story should involve, but tragically Seeley is more interested in elaborating plot beats that I would prefer to leave lying and focuses on things I would overlook in favour of more-interesting-to-me storytelling opportunities. It happens. Seeley's a huge fan of a bunch of elements of Devin Grayson's Nightwing stories that, while I am a Devin defender, are definitely not beats that I would be prioritising in terms of rescuing from her work)

It's just to me... "I really wish Taylor wouldn't tie off things quickly and neatly and solve situations within an issue or two" and "I wish Taylor was better at long term payoffs" and "that has a bunch of unfortunate implications that aren't played out" and "the characterisation is too nicey-nice and smoothed over" are accurate complaints from what I've seen so far, but they're also reflecting on how to take adequate or good to great, rather than "this is a title lost in the wilderness, please bring it home" like a bunch of people are acting that it is.

[based-bobcat]

It's interesting that Ollie does most of the things Jason thinks Bruce doesn't do.

>Killing criminals, specifically avenging someone

As absolutely shit as Cry for Justice was, the fact that Ollie killed Prometheus for maiming Roy and killing Lian was absolutely in-character and Bruce wouldn't have done that. Bruce was dead at the time, but you bet your ass he would've tried to bring Ollie in after.

>Thinking about the little guy

A core aspect of Ollie's character is his leftism, I mean, his stance on looking out for the little guy. JLU isn't the only time he rejected joining the league because it was too far removed from the streets. He's more likely to protect people who loot supermarkets during a crisis than the owner who tries to shoo them out (This happened in 52). As much as bad writers would like you to think otherwise, Bruce would NOT condone rioting or looting of any kind.

>Looser parenting/Showing affection more.

Look, Ollie was a notoriously bad parent back in the day. But we can say that his hands-off approach did help Roy more than Bruce's my way or the highway type parenting with Jason. Both Roy and Jason had the same issues when they were kids (probably one of the reasons they get along so well, eh?), but at least Roy was allowed to go with the Titans. Being with kids his age probably helped immensely with his growth. And while Batman has trouble admitting he loves his Made Found family*, even too himself, Ollie doesn't have that problem. He tells his kids he loves them all the time and the amount of bear hugs he gives them cannot be counted on 4 hands.

Lest we forget that Bruce's way of ebbing Jason's anger issues was either to ignore it or telling him to his face that taking him in was a mistake.

Also Jason liking Ollie over Bruce is funny, because Bruce would fucking HATE it.

-*I know current writers, Tom the fanfic writer Taylor, like to write Bruce as someone who tells his wards he loves them every single opportunity he gets, but i'm sorry but that's just not him. Bruce is a severely emotionally stunted man and has trouble telling anyone he loves him. One might argue that this Alfred's fault, since he kept his distance emotionally until it was to late. a mistake he recognized and vowed to not make again with Dick, but that's a post for a different day.

[celaenaeiln]

is the dickbabs romantic relationship always as bad as in Tom Taylor’s run or is it actually enjoyable in other runs? i want to read more of dick’s og nightwing run but ik dickbabs is a recurring thing and i strongly dislike what i’ve seen of it in modern comics (absolutely no offense to anyone who ships it!!)

also sort of related, but have dick and babs really been BFFs since grade school or is that new canon? i remember the initial new 52 run referencing him and babs as on and off but nothing about being childhood besties.

finally- what would you consider to be key dick grayson runs?

Surprisingly Dickbabs is pretty nice to read in other runs. I know this sounds weird coming from someone who hates Dickbabs as a ship but really it's only bad like 85% of the time and the majority of that is because of the Batgirl comics. Batgirl comics treat Dick like shit and it's a losing tossup whether he's treated well in Oracle related comics.

But to get to your point, Dickbabs in Nightwing (1996) was originally pretty good. Tom Taylor's run of Nightwing is the weird one because in every other run you have Dick + relationships whereas in Taylor's you have relationships + Dick. That being said, I highly, highly recommend reading the og one. At one point it does get toxic but Barbara leaves almost immediately after that and aside from that the ship was pretty nice for the most part.

Dick and Barbara have NOT been BFFS since childhood or whatever and this gets on my nerves that Tom Taylor and Hope Larson did that. This is one of the problems I have with the Dickbabs ship. Writers who write them love changing the story to erase Dick's friendships with the Titans. They literally love to pretend Wally, Donna, Roy, and Garth don't exist. BARBARA IS NOT HIS CHILDHOOD BEST FRIEND!! They literally keep deaging her and for what?? First she was like two decades older than him, then she's five years older than him, and now she's the same age?? Just let her be older! Barbara being the same age as Dick makes no sense because it takes away her maturity to turn her into this childish, selfish character she has no business being. She's not even enjoyable when she's deaged this far. I'm still on the she's 5 to 6 years older than Dick canon timeline and there is no way she was childhood besties with him.

The way I picture Dick and Barbara's relationship is this:

DC should've just let it at this, this was peak Dick and Barbara relationship.

Very narrow starting out list but some must read Dick Grayson runs are:

Nightwing (1996) - If you don't feel like reading anything else just read this

Nightwing (2016) - Really good up until Tom Taylor's run

Batman: Gotham Knights - pretty good and lots of cute Tim and Dick!

Titans (1999) - This is a must read if you're not interested in the original Teen Titans comics

Outsiders (2003) - Love him so much in this

JLA/Titans - Important for understanding his relationships with Titans and Batman

Nightwing (2011)

Justice League (2011) Issue #25 and Forever Evil - Same arc

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding: Nightwing vs. Hush

Robin era

Batman - One Bad Day: Mr. Freeze - If you want to skip the medal ages but still want to know what Dick was like as Robin, this comic is all you need to understand his character and personality and beliefs.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet - Dick's gauntlet test!

Robin: Year One - For fun :)

Dick!Bats era

Batman: Battle for the Cowl - To get into Dick's batman

Batman (1940) Issues #682 to #713 - Batman Dick. Incredible. Dick was such a good batman and so fun to read.

Batman and Robin (2009) - Dick and Dami!

Batman: Streets of Gotham - Also Dick and Dami <3

Justice League of America (2006) Issues #41 to #60- Dick leading his own JLA team as Batman! SO FUN!!

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #864 to #881 - Honestly Batman Dick was so good I can't tell if I like Dick more as Nightwing or Batman. Obviously it's better for his mental health if he's nightwing but he just did such a great job as Batman.

Spy era

Grayson - YESSSS. Just everything about this.

Batman and Robin Eternal - It was really good up until near the end but then it got better again

Dark Crisis - Definitely, without a doubt, no question

Additional: The ones above are focused on him but if you finish reading this then Tim's Robin (1993) Comic is a fantastic one. He doesn't appear in every single issue but he appears a lot and it's a lot of Dick and Tim characterization. Also Teen Titans (2003) for more Dick and Titans relationships.

[where-that-old-train-goes]

ummmm duck grayson

this was the context on the FUCK. dick ask but anyway okayyy

sooo im not that well versed in nightwing comics (only just started looking for nightwing stuff) BUT that doesn’t mean i dont have THOUGHTS

to be clear generally im not a shipper anyway so i don’t actively ship him w anyone. i reblog cool art sometimes but im only an active shopper with yj

anywayyyy

some of y’all (!!!! WAYNE FAMILY ADVENTURES AND ANYONE WHO TAKE THAT SHIT AS CANON !!!!!!!!!!!!) do not understand this man.

rule 1: THIS MAN IS ANGRY. stop uwuifying him he’s canonically got anger issues. he is, canonically, ANGRY. “batman: tas was the best batman” cool but did you see the episode where little twelve year old dickie tried to Kill A Man. okay. he’s angry!!!

rule 2: he is a master manipulator. YALL ARE FALLING FOR HIS PERSONA. OKAY. he could manipulate whoever he wanted. he could be a villain if he wanted!!! BUT

rule 3: HE IS A GOOD PERSON. he may be angry and a good manipulator but he does want to be A GOOD PERSON. this is IMPORTANT. okay.

ultimately my favorite dynamic here is him and damian. the brothers ever. maybeeeeee him and bruce too because God. they’re always fun if it’s written right. smth i wish we as a fandom would discuss more is the problems with oversexualizing him? esp reducing him to just The Pretty One when he’s also been raped. more than once. you have to be in specific spaces to even find people talking about this but it’s something that happened a few times and i wish we’d actually talk about it. if it had happened to a female character (or even if the perpetrators were men and not women) we would NOT be acting how we act with him.

it’s really fucked up to me to reduce his INCREDIBLY interesting and fun to explore character to “haha he’s got a nice ass”. it was a funny joke when it was a JOKE— he is appearance wise a generic attractive dc guy. but it’s not a joke anymore among the fandom and i HATE IT. he’s got depth, he HAS a lot of things going for him that are really interesting!! don’t reduce him to just that.

on a less “pissed with the fandom” and more “pet peeve with the writers” I HATE TOM TAYLOR’S NIGHTWING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

i have read leaping into the light— and it fucking sucked. it’s not, as it’s own story, bad (although there’s very little depth or really anything to analyze imo, but not all media HAS to be deep. that’s not what everyone is there for) but as a nightwing story?

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IT SUCKED

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tom taylor is on the road to success. someone pull him over.

dick isn’t just a wisecracking, happy-go-lucky guy! he does not have to be a Generic Hero!!!! he can be angry and manipulative and still be good despite it!!!!!!

that’s my main point but to end on something more lighthearted… i actually like the discowing suit. it was silly and weird and so 80s. but it was fun!!!! did it age well??? no. but was it FUN!!! was it SILLY!!!! was he kind of serving? yes! this is a pro discowing blog!

[necrotic-nephilim]

Give me your most controversial dc opinions!!!

HA YES GLADLY I WOULD LOVE TO (added a read more because i had a lot of words oopsie)

The Titans Tower Incident was in character for Jason Todd. at worst, it's a *bit* over-dramatic and a little cringey, but if you consider his actions, his motivations, and what he *actually* does, i honestly don't think it's OOC for him. he's just kind of a dramatic asshole in that era and i stand by that comic. the issue isn't the comic itself, it's how people interpret it.

i think the DC fandom, specifically the Batfamily fandom, really likes to claim to be progressive for brownie points, but then will have the one token woman that everyone decides is acceptable to hate. like, it's one thing if you dislike Carrie Kelley, i get it. Frank Miller isn't a great writer of women and she can be a lack of a character in the original Dark Knight Returns. but if you go out of your way making constant edits and posts shitting on her, it's *weird*. especially when most of the people shitting on her haven't even consumed her source, and their reasons for disliking her can apply to any other Robin, especially Tim. but as long as you put say, Steph or Cass on a pedestal, you can talk on and on about how you want to kill Carrie for the crime of existing. it feels like acceptable misogyny. i also think this extends to writers. if you put say, Gail Simone on a pedestal, you're free to blame everything under the sun on Devin Grayson. (to be clear i think you can and should hate Devin Grayson for a lot of things, but most rumors about her are untrue and if you look at every badly written comic and go "sounds like something Devin Grayson would write" that's really weird bc everything she's done, men like Chuck Dixon, Tom King, Tom Taylor, Marv Wolfman, etc have done in tenfold.) like, misogyny = bad unless it's That One Woman We've All Agreed To Hate. it's weird and i keep noticing it. and no one seems to unpack it. (i mostly see this on TikTok, not Tumblr tbf)

i don't care if you ship BruDick or not, but it's not weird for canon content to imply or state Dick had a crush on Bruce when he was first taken in. even in canon where Dick sees Bruce as a "father figure" in the most generous sense, that bond took years to build and when Dick was freshly orphaned, he *had* the memory of loving parents and didn't want Bruce to fill that role. you don't have to ship BruDick, you don't even have to like batcest, but if you're vitriolic toward just the idea that "hey maybe a young kid on the cusp of puberty might have some weird feelings to work out about the canonically very attractive mysterious playboy who took him in before seeing him as family because that bond took years to build" is nasty and terrible and wrong to you, you don't like the Batfamily, you just like the nuclear "neat" version of it in your head

the Batfamily characters are *all* too hypercompetent. like all of them are just *too* good at what they do that in order to write them in interesting arcs together, you have to willingly make some of them OOC in order to not immediately have the Problem wrapped up. i get it, Bruce is the greatest detective, Tim is wicked smart, Jason's a heavy hitting brawler, but we've reached a point where all of these characters have so many buffs they're not *fun* anymore. especially not in a group setting where you need to justify them needing each other's help. and even worse-so when they interact outside of the Gotham, you end up making every non-Batfam character seem useless just to make the Batfamily look cool. it's exhausting. i want to see these characters lose fights, look stupid, and not be the best for once. they're all getting so good they're just kind of. boring. which is the worst sin for a character, IMO.

i think we should go like. a good year of all Justice League-related teams not having a single Bat on the roster. just as a cleanse so *someone else* can shine. i get why non-Batfam DC fans are sick of the Batfamily bc jesus. it's oversaturation of the market.

power scaling "who would win" fights are fucking boring and i don't care. that's the least interesting thing about the fandom. you're missing the point of all of these characters if you only care about who could win a brawl. also it's just a stupid debate because the answer will *always* be: whoever the author of the comic wants to win.

the Batfamily is too damn big. i love every single one of them do not get me wrong. i'd die for the little niche characters who are likely never going to be relevant again like Julia Pennyworth or Kate Spencer. but it's too fucking big at this point. it's insisted to us that these characters are family but like. half of them have barely existed on the same page together more than once. it's ridiculous and it cannot sustain itself. none of these characters are allowed proper shine because they'll just get dropped for the next new shiny character. i think Maps Mizoguchi is a cool lil lady, but i know in my soul in like. three years she will fade into comics limbo and we'll have a new shiny character to fawn over. it's a brutal cycle bc DC doesn't know how to give any of these characters follow through, just wants to wave around cool new concepts.

both Under The Red Hood and Death In The Family are mediocre adaptations and strip the most important emotional elements of Jason's story from the plot. you can't properly adapt Jason's death if you leave his mother out of it. like they're phenomenal movies as their own pieces of media, but they lack the necessary emotional weight for Jason.

on the note of adaptations: the Young Justice cartoon is i think the best case study of "how do you react to a piece of media that's amazing on it's own, but is a fucking horrible adaptation?" because like, i can't discredit it. it's a good show. but it's a bad adaptation and i think people using it as an entry point for DC can make their views of certain characters and teams *very* warped. the Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey movie falls into a similar vein for me. if that movie was it's own thing with original characters, it'd likely be a top five movie for me. but because it's *such a fucking bad adaptation* i can't help but hate it for brutalizing the characters and the general concept of the BoP. it should've been a Gotham Sirens movie, and Young Justice should've been a Teen Titans show. and sure, adaptations don't owe us accuracy, but they have negative effects on the comics when they gain popularity. so i struggle to like Young Justice bc of how badly it's affected certain characters.

also on the note of adaptations: the best adaptation of how comic media operates is the Sandman tv show. adapting comics to tv shows or movies is difficult bc comic arcs don't operate the way show/movie arcs do, but the Sandman show proves it's absolutely doable to adapt the storytelling style while still making the typical adjustments you need for an adaptation.

DC needs more Deaf representation. in most areas, DC either matches Marvel or outperforms Marvel with representation of marginalized identities, but it's fucking tragic we have no deal Deaf rep in DC whereas Marvel has quite a few to pick from. this one is personal bc i'm Deaf but it does fuck me up the only option we have is a side character from Tim Drake: Robin who doesn't appear anywhere else and isn't a great character overall. DC i'm in your walls.

on the note of representation, if i see one more person say Titans had "perfect casting" while in the same breath admitting Dick was whitewashed, you are weird and i dislike you. it's really fucking weird that whitewashing is permissable to this fandom if the actor cast/fancast is hot. Dick should've been a Roma actor. Damian should not be fancast as a white actor. it's the bare minimum.

i have so many more but i will end with this especially controversial one: Dan Mora's art is overhyped. that man has the worst same face syndrome i've ever seen and i will not lie half the time i can't tell which Robin he's drawing. his art is technically gorgeous and it's so pretty to look at, but begging for every comic series to be drawn by him is boring and terrible. the art style of a comic reflects it's genre. wanting all comic art to look like Dan Mora's art is sucking the style out of comics. i miss art styles like Todd Nauck's that clearly reflected the genre of the comic.

i lied i have one more i'm REALLY passionate about: Tim's vigilante name after Red Robin should not be bird-themed. naming him Sparrow or Cardinal is *just* as bad as naming him Red Robin longterm. they're *just* as derivative and they *sound* cool but don't hold any real unique identity for Tim outside of Robin. like it baffles me we all agree he needs to move on from Robin and then decided "let's name him Robin Lite". if he has a bird name, it should be Jackdaw so at the very least, he's not red anymore. and Jackdaw could be a fun callback to Drake, in that it uses part of Tim's real name (his middle name, Jackson) while standing out a bit. but if i really had creative control i'd give him a completely unique name. if it has to be Batfamily related, Gray Ghost. but in my head, his name should be Conspiracy. i could write a lengthy meta on why and tbh it is based in my love for the Question and wanting Tim to have a similar detective noir-esque gritty solo, but i genuinely don't think he should be Cardinal or Sparrow. those names only continue his identity issues of being trapped as either Robin or a Robin knockoff.

[drbatsponge]

I'm sorry but saying Tom Taylor would write a bad Cass if he was in charge of her solo run is incredibly stupid to me when he is like one of the very few writers who has understood her relationship with Shiva.

I mean yes he writes a lot of characters like shit, but he seems to genuinely understand Cass and like her, he'd probably do a legitimately decent solo run with her.

[wajjs]

What do you think about the current stories written by DC? You can be as vague or incredibly specific about this

I think DC Comics is hitting Absolute Stagnation 2: It gets worse!

I thought they were stagnant before, but honestly, that wasn't stagnant. That was moving an inch after 2 business days from the previous moving an inch. But now? Now it's like that Austin Power's scene where his car is stuck between two walls and he can't move either forward or backwards.

I think the main issue is that they refuse to let new writers in AND they stick to using the same writers who do not know how to a) tell a fun and dynamic story b) tell a story without destroying the characters c) all of the above.

Tom Taylor and Tom King are, together, a big reason DC Comics stories feel underwhelming. Like a whole bunch of nothing. With the key difference being that Tom Taylor is absolutely BORING to read, nothing ever happens (like in his Nightwing run), and when something happens it doesn't matter because there are no stakes no sacrifices no repercussions or consequences. There's nothing. You cut out Taylor's run from the characters' publication history and nothing at all is missing. He's THAT inconsequential.

With King, he's not boring, sure, but my god he is UPSETTING. He thinks his shit doesn't stink and makes himself to be a really profound writer, when in reality he does not understand the characters he's writing about and even less so the genres he's trying to pay homage to. He tries to be subtle and his subtlety is the same one of a brick being thrown and smashing a window.

He breaks already well established characters to make them fit into tiny little boxes just so he can tell a story that is praised in huge part for the good art it's presented with. He would not be as popular if he didn't have excellent artists paired with him.

Not to mention what he did to Catwoman/Selina. He stripped her of her agency and gave her no say over HER OWN BODY when he wrote her to be pregnant with Bruce’s baby. She repeatedly constantly explicitly says she DOESN'T want it, she DOESN'T want to be a mom, but we are made complicit of Bruce smirking and acting like he knows best and coercing Selina into having that baby. For what? Literally. For what?

(WITHOUT MENTIONING HOW HE BUTCHERED BOTH GUY AND HAL IN INSULTING WAYS AND NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT IT)

Anyway.

The main issue is that DC Comics keeps giving opportunities and praises to mediocre white cishet men when they do less than the bare minimum (tell an entertaining story). When there's someone of color writing, they actively sabotage it.

With the most current stories, like the GL ones, it just goes to show how they keep going for the most mediocre writers they can find. Jeremy Adams does not know how to write adults, women, and romantic relationships. I'm sorry but I'm not going to take as romance something that's built off of stalking, harassing, and punching down on decades of character history just to reduce the woman into a hormonal emotional insecure mess that all she wants to do is glue herself to Her Man(tm) and call it a day.

The recent events are also both entirely unnecessary and they will have little to no long lasting repercussions. All they do is clog the current on going comics and force the already mediocre writers into tight corners that only expose the mediocrity even more.