#this is way too much thought to put into this lmao

[ashyjingles]

Jason Grace and Cicero Parallels

(And Octavian and Catiline Parallels)

Okay so this is the start of me. Blogging my research experience I guess? I’m looking into Roman history starting with SPQR – A History of Ancient Rome by Mary Beard. It’s for my fic of Jason’s life at Camp Jupiter pre-swap (from the Heroes of Olympus Series by Rick Riordan) but also for fun. And depending on how much I talk about Jason this may or may not be comprehensible even without any knowledge of that.

I figured going chapter by chapter would help me organize my thoughts the best so I dont forget everything I wrote down by the end of the book. I mean like I have an abysmal amount of sticky notes in the book itself already but doing it this way will also keep my motivated I think

I’ll try my best to make this comprehensible in case anyone wants to follow along, but I think most of this is going to be for myself lol so I don’t have to reread the entire book for a single piece of information (hopefully)

The prologue was just a mention on how the book will be centered on the history of the city of Rome and Roman Italy because getting into the history of Roman everywhere is a bit too big of a project for one book (page 18). and I agree because SPQR is already over 500 pages already lmao

The other thing the prologue mentioned that I noted down was that SPQR is the acronym for “Senatus PopulusQue Romanus,” which means “The Senate and People of Rome.” (page 16)

Chapter 1 is titled Cicero’s Finest Hour and takes place in 63 BCE (Before Common Era). Despite Rome being founded seven centuries earlier, the Romans didn’t start recording their own history until the events of this year. As Beard put it, “Roman history, as we know it, started here,” (page 23) and is the reason she chose to start her book with the events of this year.

To summarize, Catiline (Sometimes Catilina) was a bankrupt aristocrat who tried running for one of two consuls which were the highest political positions in the city (This was before any emperors came along). He came from a distinguished old family who had a successful earlier career but was close to bankruptcy in 43 BCE and was dealing with a failing reputation. He advocated for debt relief which was “one of the most despicable forms of radicalism in the eyes of the Roman landed classes” (page 28). 

Cicero came from a wealthy family as well, but it was outside Rome and thus he was considered a ‘new man’ without any political experience in the city which was looked down on. His climb to power rested on the shoulders of only his own skills — specifically his skill at speaking to a crowd. It won him the election of 63 BCE.

Some time after the election, Cicero got wind of a plot of Catiline’s to burn down Rome. Catiline was also building an army outside of the city. Cicero called a meeting in front of the senate and gave a famous speech that he later wrote down and spread copies of. Catiline then left town after the defeat in front of the Senate. Cicero continued to try and expose everyone left in the operation and succeeded because the conspirators had tried working with a group of Ghauls “who had come to Rome to complain about their exploitation at the hands of Roman provincial governors” (page 34) and provided names of everyone involved.

Cicero rounded up everyone that had evidence against them and without giving them a trial, executed them all. “Triumphantly, he announced their deaths to the cheering crowd in a famous one-word euphemism: vixere, ‘they have lived’ — that is, ‘they’re dead’.” (page 35) Eventually Catiline’s forces were defeated with Catiline on the front line. Cicero had many supporters after this defeat of terrorism, but soon his previous act of executing citizens without trial got him run out of town. He spent some time in North Greece before he came back to Rome, and his career never fully recovered.

Okay. Now I’m here to talk about Jason and how I think he and Octavian (and Reyna) parallel Cicero and Catiline because it was literally ALL I could think about while reading this chapter.

Like Catiline, Octavian comes from a long lineage of reputable people, whether politicians or soldiers or prophets, with him being a distant ancestor to Apollo. While he isn’t at risk of going bankrupt, he does have a certain want for power that leads to him vying for the position of praetor so much that in Heroes of Olympus he repeatedly seems hostile toward Reyna. (And Percy, but given his sudden appearance, greek vibe, and Percy’s own distrust of Octavian, I wouldn't say it’s unwarranted. Plus, at this point, Octavian had already been preparing to aim for the position of praetor now that Jason was gone.) Because we never really saw him interact with Jason, I can’t say anything about his canon relationship with him. So far, Octavian parallels Catiline in his aim for power.

Catiline attempts to stage Cicero’s assassination, but it’s unsuccessful. While it’s not entirely confirmed, what Frank points out leads the audience to believe that it was Octavian that tried killing Gwen. 

Then he noticed the marks engraved into the wooden shaft of the pilum: CHT I LEGIO XII F. The weapon belonged to the First Cohort, and the point was sticking through the front of her armour. Gwen had been speared from behind — possibly after the game had ended.  Frank scanned the crowd for Octavian. The centurion was watching with more interest than concern, as if he were examining one of his stupid gutted teddy bears. He didn’t have a pilum. – Page 142, The Son of Neptune

Of course, with the doors of death being opened she lived, but both instances were an attack on a Roman from a Roman. Catiline also turns to an outside source like the Ghauls, while Octavian turns to outside sources like monsters. The monsters don’t act as a double agent toward a character playing Cicero, but they are double agents and end up being on Gaea’s side. Granted, Octavian’s enemy at that point were the Greeks, not his fellow Romans.

While this is a much looser parallel, Catiline was run out of town and killed on the front lines of the army he amassed. Octavian died in the catapults in the battle on Camp Half-Blood after being ridiculed by the protagonists. Is this a strong enough parallel for me to heavily consider it? No, but it crossed my mind and given his previous parallels to Catiline I thought it was at least mentionable.

Jason, to me, parallels Cicero. His dad is Jupiter, so while similarly to Cicero he has the background for the positions he fills, he doesn’t quite have as much experience as other candidates. Of course, he was brought to Camp Jupiter incredibly young and started building skills just as early as Octavian, but for the sake of the parallels, just go with me here. 

While Cicero relies solely on his speech skills, Jason is clearly a formidable fighter. We don’t have many instances of him using his verbal prowess, but I think that to be as good of a praetor he seems to be described as, it wouldn’t be nonexistent. Plus, while facing off against large threats such as that one giant in The Lost Hero, he has an entire speech ready on the tip of his tongue without him even having to do much to remember it. 

“I'm the son of Jupiter, I'm a child of Rome, consul to demigods, praetor of the First Legion. I slew the Trojan sea monster, I toppled the black throne of Kronos, and destroyed Titan Krios with my own hand. And now I'm going to destroy you Porphyrion, and feed you to your own wolves."  – Page 510 of The Lost Hero

While this isn’t a political speech, the rest of his lines throughout the series give his words a bit of a sophisticated feel, especially in comparison to Leo’s comedic feel. Considering he grew up in Camp Jupiter from an early age and was probably taught Cicero’s works just like many people in later years (until even now) used his works in various classes from learning Latin to studying the rhetorics of speech. Jason would have most likely seen his works growing up in various settings, so I wouldn’t think it too far-fetched to say that he probably modelled his own speeches around Cicero’s. (This is something I would like to incorporate in my fic, so if anyone has any good recommendations for specific pieces/books/sources of his speeches to read I’m open!)

While this is a sillier and much looser parallel, they both turn to either Greece or Greek culture. Cicero flees to North Greece after he’s shunned for executing citizens without trial, and while it is nowhere near the same magnitude of villainy, Jason leans toward Greek culture after his amnesia-drenched months spent at Camp Half-Blood and is shunned for becoming ‘too Greek’ along with the Argo II bombing New Rome and him going to the old lands. He does return to Camp Jupiter though as Pontifex Maximus after giving up his title as praetor to Frank when the zombies spawned by Diocletian's Scepter deem him too ‘Un-Roman’ to command them. Cicero does the same and returns to Rome a year after his exile, but while Jason flourishes (for however short of a while) his career never quite recovers.

Now, I mentioned Reyna as another Cicero parallel, did I not? Her family was long established with and favoured by Bellona, though she and her sister were her first children to be born into her line. Unlike Cicero, she had the experience and background.

However, Octavian rivals with her much throughout the series. It’s her orders he defies, it's her he tries to overthrow, and they don’t have a very friendly relationship overall no matter how professional they manage to act with each other. Her quotes speak to her eloquence (pun intended) and her ‘step too far’ as Cicero was travelling to old land against rules and counsel. Granted, I think her parallels are not as strong as Jason’s, but I think combined, she and Jason make a good Cicero parallel to rival Octavian’s Catiline.

Between all of these, I wonder if these parallels are intentional on Riordan’s part. We know that he’s used parallels before, given all of the original quests in the PJO series that Percy goes on and Silena and Clarisse’s explicit parallels to Achilles and Patroclus. It is also entirely possible I’m just reading into it too much.

Of course, there could be plenty of other parallels to myths that could fit better. I just haven’t gotten there yet. But this is the one I’m noticing now, and it’s strong enough that regardless of whether it seems to be intentional in the books, it’s one I think I’m going to be including in my fic. Foreshadowing Octavian’s plans in HoO by paralleling him and Jason/Reyna to Catiline and Cicero is something I’m really interested in doing tbh. 

If anyone’s still with me, thoughts? I’m choosing to post this to share my ideas and possibly receive some discussion on them, so feel free to support or debate any of them lol, whether it’s a small detail or the topic itself entirely. I still need to reread HoO for this project, and I’ve also never really shown this much of an interest in history so this is a little new to me lol.

For future posts regarding my thoughts on this book I'll be using the '#SPQR' tag. Anything for the fic but not specific to the book will use '#SPQR fic' just for some sense of separation. I'll also link posts for future chapters on this post so their easier to find.

[personasintro]

First off I LOVE your works!!! My question is little odd but I wanted to know how long did it take for your works to start getting attention? I write as well and pumping out 10k-20k word count fics and only getting 6 likes is VERY demotivating, I know not everyone’s writing journey will be the same and people will come and go, but I was just curious!

I think it was 2017 when I first posted my story on this blog, so that’s quite a long time (feeling really old here lmao 🥲) and I don’t exactly remember too many details, so don’t quote me on this — but I remember it happened naturally and gradually. I think at that time I was really “lucky”. Drunk was the mentioned story I posted. I had no idea if people would love it and I didn’t put that much thought into it back then. I got these ideas for a story and I felt like I wanna write again. So I did and just posted it. I remember my first chapter had around hundred of notes. There wasn’t that much feedback, but I wasn’t exactly looking for it back then. I just kept writing and posting it for fun haha.

Somehow people found me and then started to show me their support in their own ways. My ideas were at their peak and I just kept writing, posting…

You said it yourself. The lack of feedback can be demotivating. But I’m not sure if my journey can be compared to yours. We all have our own journey and mindset of what we’re looking for when posting. But I’d say don’t give up and keep writing if that’s what you love. Firstly, you’re writing for yourself :) just hang it there and the right people will find you!

[mythalism]

Have you ever thought how would a meeting between Mythal and Lavellan go, if inquisitor was the protagonist instead of Rook? (a girl can dream)

I wonder if both of them having history with Solas will be a point of discord between two women, or on the opposite will foster an understanding.

oh boy anon.... have i......

if you had asked me a few years ago id actually tell you that my personal ideal lavellan storyline would have involved her taking on the fragment of mythal. and solas being horrified by it LOL

now, knowing the dynamic between solas and mythal, i dont think i still would have wanted this. it would be horrifyingly tragic. like true classic greek play makes you feel sick kind of tragic. and i do enjoy that but i think it would have actually ruined my life if they went there.

as for what i think it might look like, i think we already have an idea. we did see flemythal and the inquisitor react, and flemythal says she does the people proud. or that they kneel too easily LOL. shes mostly indifferent. morrigythal and the inquisitor also seem fairly close in veilguard, at least far closer than they were when we left them 10 years ago. "speaking from the heart, inquisitor?" was PERSONAL but playful and fond, imo. the way morrigan looks at lavellan when she talks about solas each time also makes me think they've talked about everything. i actually really enjoyed the tidbits of their friendship we saw. bonding over a shared ex boyfriend you will always be famous. even when the ex is shared by uhhhhhhhh ancient goddess fragment hanging out next to your soul.

as for how fragment mythal would have reacted... honestly i dont think she would have treated lavellan that differently from how she treats rook, aka as a mildly interesting bug that has crawled across her carpet that she is contemplating squishing or taking outside in a cup. depending on how it behaves.

we dont know the extent of her ability to "watch" the world but considering she knows about pretty much everything we can assume she is aware of solas and lavellan. and shes even in the same room as them at one point and does not say or do anything. i really dont think she gives a fuck LMAO. i think fragment mythal sees herself as truly god-like and thus she would probably not really clock lavellan as a threat. i also think she does not care about solas enough to be truly jealous. i also think there is a part of her who wants him to be happy because why free him if not? i think all of these things exist inside of her simultaneously and as a result she would prob just be a haughty bitch to lavellan like she is to everyone else. maybe with a few extra zingers thrown in about solas to taunt her and see if she rises to the bait. maybe she'd lay the "test your worth" on a bit thicker because she'd want to see the mettle of the mortal who got the dread wolf's heart.

as for how lavellan would treat mythal that would be sooooo varied based on everyones personal lavellan that i get why we didnt see it in game. mine would be pretty pissed off but she would have a healthy amount of the fear of god in her and probably not be openly antagonistic. but definitely snarky. there is also a place for mythalavellan toxic yuri in my soul but thats a conversation for another time. ultimately i think mythal is putting lavellan in a cup in a rare moment of solidarity and empathy and putting her outside. but not gently. she kind of throws the whole cup out the door y'know and goes "ew. good luck with ur ugly fucking boyfriend" and continues on with her life unbothered. to seek revenge and a horrible reckoning ofc

[velvetvexations]

TERFs are so bad at making bottom surgery sound bad. Saw one say "--- (read: trans woman "vaginas" and trans man "penises") is something only erotic to a necrophile". Which was obviously intended to be off putting but i dunno I think it sounds kinda metal???. N there's one i just ran into calling neovaginas "axe wounds" which I KNOW is meant as an insult but oh my god it makes them sound so badass to me

lmao it was bad enough I felt compelled to censor it but yeah we're all about reappropriating TERF conceptions of trans people here

I'm white myself but I've been noticing more and more that white trans people have such a victim complex and believe themselves (ourselves) to be the most oppressed group ever. An acquaintance of mine (a famous trans activist) recently said that "trans people are the only people that face hate for how we dress". Like??? what about ethnic and religious minorities??? what about All Women including cis ones??? She also loves using antisemitism as an example of what "could" or "is going to" happen to trans people while treating it as something that was resolved after ww2 and is not very much still rampant

People are drawing swastikas on Synagogues and calling it praxis!

Idk if you ever saw this comic, but about a month ago, a trans man made a jokey joke comic about making an appointment at the gyno where the receptionist was confused. The ultimate punchline was that he's trans, and thus is the one who needs the appointment. It's v clear that the main point of confusion is that the receptionist thought she was talking to a cis man, who would have no real need for gynecological care. In the "I'm upset when not about me" crowd of TRFs, they decided it was transmisogynistic bc no *actually* the receptionist thought the trans man on the line with a deep voice was really a trans woman. Because sometimes trans women are mistaken as men over the phone. Idk if they just missed that it wasn't a primary care provider or what, but it was v clear to me that the idea was confusing a trans man over the phone for a cis man. Cis men generally don't need gynecologists. Trans men can need gynecologists. It had fuck all to do with trans women on a subtextual level. I can't fathom how they thought that.

TRFs CANNOT fucking read holy shit I hope they fucking apologized to the author

sorry to bring up PT AGAIN ik you are probably tired of hearing about it, but one of the last posts.i read before unfollowing was a comparison of transandrophobia believers with James Fucking Somerton. and its ironic as fuck to me because alot of critiques of Somerton can absolutely apply to them. equating any critique as harassment based on their identity is a big one and its been driving me nuts to see trfs envoke a James Somerton comparison when they are doing similar shit to him

James Somerton is a convenient lightning rod to compare every bad queer person for the rest of time

As a trans male I hate the weird, white knight shit that i see so many other men doing rn, like shut up will you?? Trans boys are not "cowards" or "incels" for not putting themselves in harm's way for (ESPECIALLY) CIS WOMEN Or trans women/girls. I'm so sick of seeing that stupid shit. Those guys are on the same level as military recruiters in my opinion. Just as predatory and fucking dangerous. Like not to be a dick but why do they seem SO convinced that trans boy must be naturally so much stronger then the average trans girl? Hello???????? Hello???

Man is the Strong Gender.

honestly of it wasn't for the lesbian separatism shit i would think that some transfem TRFs want some kind of tradwife-style "macho manly man protects his wife who is a delicate flower incapable of both violence and self-defense who will die if you look at her too hard" thing with a transmasc partner or something, given the way they actively applaud transmascs who talk like that. which would be totally fine if it was a weird fetish thing but this seems to be an actual expression of their politics (also am i just old or does anyone remember when the dominant feminist rhetoric was "women are just as strong as any men and can protect themselves")

it sure feels like that doesn't it lmao

IN WHAT UNIVERSE ARE WHITE PEOPLE INVISIBLE lmaoooo that post was too much

seriously lmao

I really dislike "trans women are the women of women" cuz once again we're using woman to mean the lowest position in a hierarchy

as always

Just something I wanted to share bc it made me really happy: when the forcefem blog made that post about how forcemasc isn't revolutionary and makes no sense or whatever the fuck, one of my transfem mutuals talked about how stupid the aforementioned post was and expressed her support for forcemasc and transmascs in general. I had no doubts that she was supportive of transmascs but that made me super happy!

Hell yeah, I'm really happy for that anon!

Happy Christmas eve if u celebrate ^^ hope ur havin' a good evening [or whatever time it is over where u live]

you as well <3

Logging into Tumblr after a chill movie night with the family only to see you've murdered a guy, holy shit

my tits were too heavy once more

saw another transandrophobia denier, this time on my dash specifically

terrible

Hell yeah it's always nice to find a casual history enjoyer online who's not racist

I do my best.

[nouverx]

Arcane season 2 ending made me too sad so yk what, everything is fine actually, Viktor is now a teacher at the Academy and he mentors young Zaunite students. That's how I choose to cope.

[pynkhues]

#just the levels of naked affection

I KNOW. Jacob's just looking at him with so much fondness (like "look at this adorable weirdo"), I can't stand it. They just clearly like each other so much. And this one:

https://x.com/archiveiwtv/status/1832532576273060162

True about the height. Sam's kind of built like a ballerina, or just a dancer in general, with the long slim legs. His torso looks long to me but maybe that's because he's so slender and then the wide shoulders make him look even slenderer?

(x)

Yes!! I love that clip too, it just really exudes so much warmth.

And yes! Dancer or swimmer, I always feel, although the latter I think usually skew a lot taller. It's been funny to be rewatching the series, because I read someone say ages ago about how you can tell neither Sam nor Jacob are all that tall in s1 because they're around so many other supporting male characters and extras in a way they aren't really in s2 (especially with there being so much more Dubai), and the point of comparison makes it more obvious. It really does!

[hinamie]

corvidae

[mossy-paws]

Get in the fucking biograft, Shuriken. (EVANGELION/PHIGHTING!)

(og screenshot’s/cover under text!) Why hello there to my tumblr followers, it’s been a awhile /silly

ANYWAYS!!! Guess who recently finished the EVA franchise minus the rebuilds and has been in a horrible chokehold over it, this anime ruined my life but hey at least its intro theme is nice……

Well, I wanted to draw some stuff for it! All together these pieces took exactly 48 hours and 20 minutes… with the cover-piece taking ~35(?) of those hours. These were… very, VERY time costly safe to say LOL,,, I am super, SUPER proud of how the cover came out though, everything on it was drawn, colored, rendered, edited, whatever, BY HAND stroke by stroke (as you can see below)

The text, the lineart, the shadows, the colors, the snowflakes on the bio and Shuri, EVERYTHING was done by hand, it was horribly time costly but it did come out very, VERY well in the end I would say (fun fact! I also didn’t originally have the textless version of the cover, and I had to trace all of the lineart for bio’s tophalf by just guessing what line when where and what the hell was going on /silly)

this was a very, very hard project to do all together, but it was also a really nice learning experience too, I’m happy i did it that’s for sure :3!

(og screenies + cover)

[lilybug-02]

Deltarune… but Sesame Street

Berdly would totally be a sock puppet

Part 2 of this

[drulalovescas]

Listen. I'm not exactly optimistic about the canon reciprocation in the revival. Like NOT. AT. ALL. OPTIMISTIC. The CW show Supernatural burnt me wayyyy too many times. However.

Imagine that Jensen Ross Ackles actually brings the show back. even though the story seems to be finished???? Because they're all kinda permanently dead this time???? So. Storywise there is no point in bringing it back. The story is done. Unless…you wanna fix things??? So.

Imagine that Jensen Ross Ackles brings it back. After all the bad press the show got for burying their gays. for not letting Dean respond. With there currently being so many different, actually good shows that are doing the queer rep right. And getting tons of attention and praise for it. So again.

Imagine that Jensen Ross Ackles actually brings Supernatural back ... only to make Dean Winchester tell Cas "sorry buddie, I don't love you THAT way." Just to make Dean Winchester NOT reciprocate. Or. Just to NOT address the confession AT ALL. Lmao.

Like…

Who would do that in this economy???! And why????!!

So. what I’m trying to say is, if Jensen Ross Ackles didn’t wanna „go there,” didn’t wanna „open the Pandora Box” wouldn’t it be logical and most importantly wiser to just be like Elsa and let it go????

Obviously. who am I to assume that Jensen Ross Ackles actually wants to do the logical, wiser and more profitable thing. He might just wanna be Dean Fucking Winchester one more time, consequences be damned. which is fair. i get it.

It’s just… it would be REALLY TRULLY [redacted] [deleted] [omitted] to bring the show back in order to bury your gays even deeper and anger and/or alienate your HUGE queer fanbase even more. the fanbase that you still heavily profit off via conventions etc etc.

It would be REALLY TRULLY [redacted] [deleted] [omitted] to bring the show back and not let Dean Winchester kiss the angel of the Lord Castiel stupid.

[midnightdemonhunter]

am i the original, the remains, or the later writing?

Fresh off my first watching of Sophomore Year, I was desperate for more Nightmare Forest-esque content for my beloved bad kids. Thankfully, I immediately stumbled upon @gilears fic Over and Through! I absolutely adored this fic, bingereading it in one go, and knew I needed to show my love and feelings somehow!!

So here are the six bad kids' personal hells, shown in my order of reading!

[akuma-tenshi]

at the airport rn but i have time for one more shitpost before i go bc i had one (1) thought

[fluxydrawings]

i think ren/martyn/cleo would be a rlly funny ship. their board game nights would be wild

[spoondoodles]

I blacked out and more Logince HS AU appeared on my canvas idk what happened (also ty @oatmeal-stans-the-trash-rat for some inspiration sorry it took so long to make a post about Them <3)

[seventh-district]

Sam: "Look at me. Hey- look at me a second. I know. I know you're tough. I know how strong you are. You have every right to be proud of that. But being able to handle somethin' doesn't mean you should have to. Least of all when I'm right here trying to help. Please let me help. If not for you then for me, because I don't like knowin' you're hurtin', especially when there's somethin' I can do about it."

Me, shaking my head, fighting back literal tears: "B-but it's gonna give you another headache!"

[deva-arts]

zomg... the girls! Sketched out! And a few characters I never showed designs for! haha! I keep thinking about the beach, so this is their swimwear.

I hope to make a full fledged drawing for all of them soon~ then the guys~~

Some newbies are: Aura (blue!) Katya (Gold!) and more of Verra (Green!) We'll eventually see more about them as I draw more things and doodles.