#this is just how i feel and how i think imogen and laudna could both grow and flourish

[essie-s]

YES! i’m gonna get into unpopular opinion territory here so apologies, but i’ve been marinating this in my head for a bit.

in my opinion, the BEST thing for both their stories would be for imogen’s affections to be unrequited, leading to the two of them achieving a more balanced friendship. this isn’t to stamp on imodna shippers, i have no problems with y’all or the ship. but the reality is that laudna is imogen’s everything. imogen has been so lonely and so neglected her whole life, and suddenly, here’s laudna! the perfect best friend and surrogate sister, auntie, and dare i say, mother figure. imogen gets her safety and her confidence from laudna. laudna is a protector and a caretaker, she showers imogen in love and affirmations and she knows when imogen needs support. this is what imogen has been denied for as long as she can remember, ever since lilliana left. of course she’s going to be dependent on laudna; anyone would be. and of course she’s going to fall deeply in love with laudna; who wouldn’t.

but laudna can’t be everything. she shouldn’t be. laudna has lost her whole world multiple times over. she’s hanging on by a thread, scared of her own existence. so is imogen, in her own fucked up way. they’re both balanced precariously on their own cliffs…and if one of them falls, the other has nothing left to stop them from falling too.

imogen needs to have a support system, not a support person. she deserves to have people in her life who can all help her differently…who can all love her differently. she’s always put her worth into one basket; first her mother, then laudna. the greatest growth she can have is to learn to stand on her own two feet, with many people around her to fall back on should she need it. laudna: her best friend, her sister from another mister. bell’s hells: her family, her crew. and someday down the road, a lover to call her own.

let these two witches heal and grow together, but not as one.

After getting to watch Imogen and Laudna exist as characters without each other, I’m not really looking forward to potentially going back to their codependency sideshow.

[shorthaltsjester]

no but i really can’t stop thinking about like. the intricacies of a sending spell. the fact that liliana tells imogen she loves her but doesn’t tell imogen she trusts her. the fact that relvin doesn’t say he loves imogen but does tell her he thinks of her often, he misses her, and he hopes she’s happy (and suspects she is, given how she was in gelvaan). and the fact that imogen is so filled with love in all the complicated and imperfect ways that she would have to be with the examples set out for her. my head is in my hands about the fact that though imogen is a homebody type, she was a wanderin’ spirit in gelvaan because gelvaan was never going to be a place she could stay with her powers and those people (as made clear by imogen’s attestation that she wouldn’t have lasted if laudna hadn’t come along) and the fact that we know relvin did in fact, to imogen’s words, do his best trying to mitigate the relationship between her and the town. even after she’d left, it’s clarified that relvin tried to limit the rumours that grew about what imogen did in her exit, despite the violence of it that imogen admits to.

there’s just something about the contrast of the two sendings that is really punching me in the chest in terms of like. something with the temults that i find especially compelling is the kind of . idealizing that can come when you have a distant parent, especially when the contrasting closer parent is obvious in their imperfection. because i think what’s compelling about the liliana and imogen dynamic is that, on both sides, what they’re each reaching for is an idea; imogen for the saviour from her dreams that told her to run and liliana for the toddler from her past that she set off to save. what’s compelling about relvin and imogen is the exact opposite; they’ve both seen too much of the other, imogen facing the realization that all children have eventually about their parent’s humanity, pushed to 11 because she can hear his thoughts. but i think the sending spells speak to the reality that, though the relvin relationship is certainly the one with the most obvious ache, it’s an ache comprised of presence and grief for an actual relationship that has devolved, versus the one with liliana which was never truly there, and is more melancholia for something they do not have.

the messages relayed between imogen and liliana literally say “i love you” but they’re also the update messages of a soldier conveying her perhaps ill-given trust to a potential turncoat. with relvin’s message, though he doesn’t say i love you, there’s a history to the relationship they have inherent in the contents of the message and the words imogen initiates it with. speaking to her father, imogen can say the words “thank you for doing your best” and feel the truth of them, but she does not extend that to her mother. and like. that’s It for me. that’s the deliciousness of relvin and liliana and imogen. that relvin stayed and was imperfect but there, and the reality is what stains and strains imogen’s relation to him now, but that liliana left and maintained the perfection of Protective Mother in imogen’s dreams, and the reality coming into conflict with the dream — where liliana is protective mother but for a daughter that’s as imagined as imogen’s dead mother was — is what both gives imogen hope and keeps her from committing entirely to any idea of who her mother actually is. the temults can be something so awful and wonderful and human and monstrous actually.

[rucksackmentality]

List of the truths shared in Nana Morri's Honesty trial (C3E79):

Imogen: I am genuinely scared to meet my mom again.

Laudna: Deep down inside, both Delilah and I want the shard...Fearne should have it, but I don't know anymore what's my opinion or desires or feelings, or hers.

Imogen: I love Laudna deeply but I'm disgusted at the thought of Delilah looking at us all the time.

Orym: I'm super lonely all the time, especially at night. It doesn’t matter if I'm bunking with one of you guys.

FCG: Sometimes I pity some of you because you have beating hearts and opportunities and you don’t do enough with them...Chetney, you have so much love to give and it doesn't seem like you're interested in anything other than wood! There's people out there who you could love and experiences you could share with someone else, but all you care about is wood!

Orym: I've always kind of laughed it off but I guess I do kind of wonder if Chetney is my dad.

Ashton: I am the reason that the Jiana Hexum robbery went fucking wrong, and the reason why I got thrown out of a fucking window.

Fearne: I feel like we’re very ill-equipped for this job and we're going to fail at saving the world. (Laudna: Honestly that's probably true, I'm right there with you.)

Chetney: While wood may be the superior material to metal, I do fear that, with the dwindling interest in it, that children will find my toys - and thereby myself - obsolete every year I grow older.

FCG: I think it's something buried deep down in my circuitry, but every time I hurt or kill something - it feels really good. It makes me sort of relax a little bit and some of my stress goes away.

Imogen: I know we're supposed to save the gods, but I've tried talking to them my whole life and none of them would ever respond. I think I'm tainted. I dont know if I want to save gods that don't love me.

Laudna: You know we could rip-cord out of [saving the world] at any moment...right? And sometimes I fantasize about it all the time.

Fearne: I sometimes do stuff to you guys while you're sleeping - not weird stuff, I just like to look at you closely...and maybe like, twiddle your hair or braid it. Nothing bad!

Ashton: Whenever it starts to get quiet, I start worrying that one of us - most of us - are going to end up killing another one of us accidentally...I have panicked thinking about when one you kills another one of us.

Orym: I have all the faith in the world in you guys...and I have also spent time thinking of how to neutralize each of you.

FCG: I kinda worry that I put all my eggs in the Changebringer basket and she might betray us all. I had a really weird conversation with her and I think she's just out for herself and she might not really care about me - but what if she does? And I'm saying horrible things?

Imogen: Fearne, I was really disappointed in you for running away from your power. You should take the shard!

Orym: I really miss Dorian, and sometimes I think that's okay, and sometimes I think it isn't.

Ashton: I feel fucking worse that I just fucked up Fearne's life way more than mine and I should've died instead of that happening.

Chetney: I grew up in the Bramblewood outside of Westruun, and when I was a kid, I came back from learning how to make toys and found that my whole family had left. All they left behind were toys. They ran when Errevon the Rimelord was running across the plains, and so I'm kind of afraid of dragons. And I had five siblings - Alabaster, Pepper, Sugarplum, Hermey, and Chad - and I was so mad that they left I never looked for any of them, and now I'm pretty sure they're dead. So I think any family I have is just gonna look for a reason to leave me. That's why I don't get attached to anybody.

[sassy-cass-16]

Oh god I promised myself no bell’s hells meta until c3 ends but my brain is turning the “can she be trusted?” line over and over like chicken at the shawarma shop. because there are layers to that.

more under the cut because i let this run away from me:

so first off, there's the obvious: dorian initially seems to start to address the whole group, everyone who's left in the inn room, but turns and just locks eyes with orym when he asks. orym, who of everyone has the most reason to be biased against laudna right now. orym, who just got into a fight with laudna over the sword that killed both of them and orym's husband and father-in-law. that's who dorian thinks to ask, because he trusts orym not to let his judgment be clouded.

dorian first saw orym again after months of being separated, like, three days ago, and despite how much orym has visibly changed in those months, dorian doesn't hesitate to believe that orym will still be objective. he trusts that orym will be the one to look at this situation and tell him the truth.

because dorian has experience with orym telling him the truth. dorian knows firsthand how willing orym is to shuck his personal feelings in favour of what's true. dorian just saw what he could have become, had orym not stepped in to stop him taking the circlet of barbed vision. he owes the fact that he's alive and beholden to no gods to orym's willingness to be rational and objective in a situation involving a powerful magical item. by his own admission, "i wouldn't be here without you."

so of course dorian trusts him right now.

and there's something to the exclusion of the others, with that. dorian doesn't look to fearne and orym, although that would make sense because he's known the two of them the longest. he doesn't look to chetney, who's proven to be able to get a handle on this with the scream needle compromise. he doesn't look to ashton, who's been extremely levelheaded through this whole mess. he looks at orym, exclusively. he is asking orym, exclusively. not the group, although everyone decides to jump in to answer and then imogen comes through the window to complicate the matter. just orym.

dorian is the kind of person with a lot of potential for darkness in him. he hides it well because he's also deeply kind and friendly, but it's always been there. he's just been through something massively traumatic, and that was after the original circlet conflict back in exu prime. he had his alignment forcibly changed from good to neutral. but even after all he's gone though, orym's alignment is still good.

as much as orym doesn't want to be a leader and prefers to be a protector and follower, he does very well in situations where he takes on an amount of responsibility. when he's in some level of control over a situation, he takes to it naturally. he's a very good babysitter to his gaggle of weirdos. the "can she be trusted?" might have been an attempt on dorian's part to give orym a bit more control here. to reassure him that regardless of anyone else's feelings—regardless of how laudna's reaction might have affected him—orym deserves to be trusted, and he can make a decision that dorian will trust.

back in exu and all the way into early c3, dorian and orym slotted into a sort of parental position in their groups. watching over the crownkeepers' clothes when they went skinny dipping in exu. orym repeatedly steering everybody away from bad ideas. matt even described dorian leaving dariax in zephrah in 4sd as "dad just going out to get cigarettes." there's always been that underlying sense of "we are two of a pair" with dorian and orym. not to say that either of them don't see the others as adults, but they do have that rapport of being the babysitters in the gaggle of weirdos.

that kind of bond is just part of their dynamic. but especially in light of what's been happening while they were separated, and then what happened between them earlier that evening, "can she be trusted?" is a reminder of that bond. orym's been lonely, by his own admission, and one of the secrets he divulged at nana morri's was "i really miss dorian." he broke down crying during his last message through the sending stone, and then again on the bench not a few hours before this whole incident went down.

dorian came to comfort him. he flat-out said to orym's face "i'm here now." he reminded orym that he needs to rely on other people, that he can't always be the one saving everybody else. he gave orym the room to not be the strong one, and told him he has that room because dorian's there to support him. they can be two of a pair again.

he knows orym's been feeling like he can't do anything, like he had to resort to what he stopped dorian from doing with the circlet. and so dorian both gives him a choice to make, something to do, and shows him that he still trusts him unconditionally. "can she be trusted?" also means "i trust you" and "i'm here with you" and "this is how we've always been."

we know from liam in 4sd that orym has feelings for dorian that he's not sure are reciprocated. but even regardless of the romantic element here, dorian and orym have always had a partnership. they have always been two of a pair. the sequence of events leading to "can she be trusted?" is a perfect microcosm of he relationship between the two of them. it's just incredible.

[overnighttosunflowers]

I've been thinking a lot about that interaction between Laudna and Orym in episode 102. How it starts with Orym saying "I'm so sorry that the world is moving so fast that we couldn't take the time to help you."

There's a certainty to that framing that is very typical of Orym. Not "I'm sorry the world is moving so fast that we didn't take the time to help you." They couldn't take the time. The mission comes first, second, and third until they've seen it through. 

Now, it's hardly a revolutionary observation that Orym's worldview comes from a particular combination of military training, survivor's guilt, and calcified grief that is ultimately self-destructive. It's also not a revolutionary observation that the party has not quite realized this, or not in so many words. They tend to treat his perspective as the only one unshakeable by personal failing. Later in that conversation in 102, Laudna even tells Orym that if someone needed to "finish the job, put me down," she'd wanted it to be him, because she knows he has the ability to do what's right.

His friends think of him as the only one who isn't a powder keg waiting to go off, but it has gone off, with Orym secretly and self-destructively pledging himself to Nana Morri in order to keep his friends alive. Betraying his friends' trust in favor of the mission. And in the end it didn't accomplish anything.

I think of Orym as someone who holds multiple truths at once. First and foremost there's a soldier's truth, the grim relentlessness that's all that keeps him going sometimes. But we've seen Orym be soft, too. He's gentle. He loves his friends. It's there underneath the grim layers of suppression. We saw it more early campaign. I don't think that he was lying in 49 when he told Imogen that he wasn't worried about her just hours after conspiring with Fearne to take her out if necessary. I think he wanted so, so badly to discount that soldier POV and buy all the way into trusting Imogen. But he couldn't. And I don't know if he was able to reconcile that. I think he genuinely believed both. Liam has said that before the events of this campaign reactivated Orym's trauma, he was legitimately on a path to healing his grief. I think that a healthier Orym would have been able to set down the soldier's truth to simply trust Imogen.

But that's not where the campaign took us. At the Malleus Key in episode 51, Orym collected a locket from a dead Vanguard soldier to remind himself that the enemy are still human. And then after Bor'dor died, in episode 63, he dropped it. Locking in on that soldier's truth. Making that deal with Morri. Not letting his friends stop and rest when they need it badly. Pressuring Imogen to give in to Predathos on the moon so that they could learn more.  

There's a grim run of episodes where Orym is stuck like that, prioritizing his soldier's truth and suppressing the part of him that is his heart. Now, I'm not someone who needs to always feel warmly towards a character or agree with their choices to appreciate their depth and role in the story, and I respect what Liam was doing there. The willingness of the CR cast to have their characters make messy and unpopular choices is one of the things I appreciate most about the show, and one of the things that leads us to the richest and most meaningful moments of character arc resolution. 

But that's where I've been frustrated with Orym: by and large, resolution has not been coming. He's been driving deeper and deeper into his traumatized worldview, clinging to it and stubbornly refusing to hear challenges to it. Repeatedly shutting down arguments by mentioning his dead family. I get it, and I feel for him, and I don't know how else Liam could be playing it given the story that Orym is in and the character that he is—not least a soldier whose training tells him never to question the mission. But, god, I'm ready for the growth. Ready for the story to prod Orym in directions that change. Ideally a shift towards a healthier perspective, but even hitting such a low that the Hells can't help but recognize that Orym's rigid morality is as destructive as it is sustaining. That will make them push back on him.

Because telling Orym he's the good one reinforces his worst instincts, increases the pressure he puts on himself, makes him double down. What he needs is someone to push back. He needs that increasingly brittle sense of his own lens as morally superior and righteous to shatter. 

And I am so, so excited for it to happen—because we're starting to see it starting to crack, just a little. In episode 92, he acknowledged to Imogen that his lens is a lens and not simple objective truth, and even implied it's one he wishes he knew how to set down: 

And now, when Laudna tells him he knows best of all how to do what's right, he admits it again: not a lot of his choices have panned out.

And it's true. They haven't. And I hope he keeps on saying it.

I'm glad to have Dorian back and on a revenge quest against the gods, because Orym trusts Dorian and Dorian is not going to let him sit unchallenged in his own convictions the way the rest of the Hells have been. I'm excited to see more of Braius, who not only disagrees with Orym about the Primes, but also doesn't have the same vested interest as the rest of the party in seeing Orym as good. I hope they both push back on him. I hope it unsettles him and confuses him and breaks his worldview and soldier identity enough that when the pieces come back together, instead of scarring over a second time, they can simply finally heal.

[pocketgalaxies]

fcg: i enjoy eating silver more than copper

imogen: i am genuinely scared to meet my mom again

chet: it is well known that wood is better than metal

laudna: deep down inside, both delilah and i kind of want the shard

laudna: i don't want [the shard], fearne should have it, but i don't know anymore what's my opinion or desires or feelings or [delilah's]

imogen: i love laudna deeply, but i'm disgusted at the thought of delilah looking at us all the time

orym: i'm super lonely all the time, especially at night. doesn't matter if i'm bunking with one of you guys

fcg: sometimes i pity some of you because you have beating hearts and opportunities and you don't do enough with them

fcg: chetney you have so much love to give and it doesn't seem like you're interested in anything, in ANYTHING, other than wood. there's people out there who you could love and experiences you could share with someone else, but all you care about is wood

orym: i've always laughed it off but i guess i do kinda wonder if chetney is my dad

ashton: i am the reason that the jiana hexum robbery went fucking wrong and the reason why i got thrown out of a fucking window

ashton: (laudna: is that why you feel like you deserved to have the nobodies leave you?) yeah.

fearne: i feel like we are very ill-equipped for this job and we're gonna fail at saving the world

chet: while wood may be the superior material to metal, i do fear that with the dwindling interest in it that children will find my toys and thereby myself obsolete every year that i grow older

fcg: i think it's something buried deep down in my circuitry, but every time i hurt or kill something, it feels really good. it makes me sorta relax a little bit and some of my stress goes away

imogen: i know we're supposed to save the gods but i've tried talking to them my whole life and none of them will ever respond. i think i'm tainted. i don't know if i want to save gods that don't love me

laudna: you know we could all ripcord out of this at any moment, and i don't mean this scavenger hunt, i mean saving the world, right? andsometimesifantasizeaboutitallthetime

fearne: sometimes i do stuff to you guys while you're sleeping. not weird stuff, i just like to look at you closely and...you know, just look at you. you look so content and comfortable and i can get up and look at you really well. and maybe twiddle your hair and like braid it. nothing bad! nothing bad!!

ashton: any time it's too quiet, i start worrying that one of us, most of us, are gonna end up killing another one of us accidentally. all of us. orym...very gently, but probably–orym may be the only one i worry about the least, but genuinely everybody else. i have panicked thinking about what happens when one of you kills another one of us

orym: (laudna: do you have any strong feelings one way or another kind of being the normal guy in a group of freaks who are all ticking time bombs? are you okay with that, do you have any strong feelings?) i have all the faith in the world in you guys, all of you. and i have also spent time thinking how to neutralize each of you

fcg: i kinda worry that i put all my eggs in the changebringer basket and she might betray us all, i had a really weird conversation with her and i think she's just out for herself and she might not really care about me

imogen: fearne, i was really disappointed in you for running away from your power, you should take the shard (laudna: you should take the shard)

orym: i really miss dorian, and sometimes i think that's okay and sometimes i think it isn't

pate: [laudna] is my creator, i don't have feelings, i'm a construction

ashton: i feel fucking worse that i just fucked up fearne's life way more than mine, and i should've died instead of that happening

chet: i grew up in the bramblewood outside of westruun, and when i was a kid, i came back from learning how to make toys and found that my whole family had left. all they left behind were toys. and they ran when errevon the rimelord was running across the plains so i'm kinda afraid of dragons. and i had five siblings, alabaster, pepper, sugarplum, hermey, and chad, and i was so mad that they left, i never looked for any of them. and now i'm pretty sure they're dead, so i think that any family i have is just gonna look for a reason to leave me, that's why i don't get attached to anybody

[ittybittyremy]

bells hells' points about the archheart conversation (c3e108)

I organized everyone's points so that it would be easier to analyze them

This may look a little messy so sorry in advance

Note: I am only including the conversation and not anything afterwards (i.e. Braius' interaction with Asmodeus)

Conversation starts at 3:19:30 on Beacon

Chetney

Reminds the team that there is another god who has a similar opinion to the Archheart

Reminds the group that the last bit of the lock on Predathos shared a similarity with the Divine Gate. He wonders if they break down the gate, would it pull the pin on Predathos, keeping them back for a bit. And if that was the case, it could be fair game

Agrees with Orym's “I don’t know that we need to decide that we have to throw the switch instead of him when we at least have a chance to cut off his hand before he pulls it”

Asks Imogen and Fearne “I’m not Ruidusborn, so it’s not really up to me. How do you feel about the notion that one of you or both of you could be asked to be a vessel? Where are you? How are you feeling about that?”

Says “I don't know” at Imogen's “but there’s no way I’m more powerful than some of the Exaltants up there already”

Thinks it’s crazy that the gods could see BH as their last ditch effort

Says “right” (Regarding Braius’ “At the end of the day, whoever succeeds, whoever has power, whoever accomplishes their goals, they can make things right. You have to win first”)

“The weird part is all these different parties have the same goal, to push the reset button, to grab the reins. We all have different perspectives. The Unseelie want the chance to do it and wipe the slate but they want to be in charge. Ludinus, same thing, but he wants to be in charge. I’m not saying we’re wrong. I think we’re better, but we’re really no different.”

“I was asking if he had talked to Ludinus or done this before, like a catalyst, like a voice in your ear. I don’t know”

Feels like they’re having their strings pulled

Thinks that they should talk to the Matron because “conversations are important. Everything breaks down when people don’t talk.”

Laudna

“I really liked [the Archheart]”

“The other scary thing is if he’s sending Ruidusborn to their deaths, is he testing the boundary or are they testing who’s powerful enough to possibly take Predathos into them?”

Agrees with Dorian's view that releasing Predathos is inevitable but wanting to be there when it happens

Mentions that the Matron may be the one that has similar ideas to the Archheart

Wonders if Ludinus will be successful in broadcasting the gods destroying Aeor

Thinks there’s a chance that the gods strike back if the broadcast is released as there powers wanes

Reminds the group that Archheart said “a second Calamity”

Reminds Imogen that she’s very capable when she says “but there’s no way I’m more powerful than some of the Exaltants up there already”

Thinks that “being Ruidusborn doesn’t necesarily gives them godlike or god eater powers…”

“If it’s not [Imogen’s] mother, it’s probably one of the two of you. And that makes my stomach turn”

Doesn't think the gods are a monolith

“We’re the worst. Like just kind of in general, like we are a bunch of fuck-ups. We’re kind of the worst. Strangely, I think that’s the quality that everyone sees in us that makes us the best for this job” (Regarding Orym saying that the gods could see BH as their last ditch effort)

Agree’s with Chetney's “I think we’re better, but we’re really no different [from the others who want to release Predathos]"

“We learn more everyday. We’re still on this journey. No decisions have been made. We’re not speaking in absolutions.”

Thinks the RQ ”has a reason to take all of this very personally more so than any of the others”

Dorian

Thinks that Predathos being released is inevitable. He would rather be there when it happens

“Cowards are often honest” (about the Archheart)

Wonders if there’s a chance that the gods strike back if the broadcast is released as there powers wanes

Nods at Orym’s “Ludinus is at the end of the road no matter what.”

“Faith’s a hard thing to let go of” (regarding Imogen’s “but a lot of people on this world depend on [the gods]”)

“It’s hard to believe but there is real evil in the world. I’ve seen it. Not everything deserves a second chance… But maybe you’re right, I wish you were. I wish the world were the way you saw it but it’s got to be done, but that’s not a chance I’m willing to take either” (in regards to Fearne saying that Predathos potentially being good)

“I think Predathos is a weapon. Do we want to have the power to wield it? I don’t know. But I trust us more than anyone”

“It was so ugly the way we did [the mission], but we did do what we came here for.”

Asks Chetney if he thinks “we’re getting our strings pulled”

“I think (the Raven Queen) is motivated by fear as well. I would imagine if you could see the future, the one future you couldn’t see is the future where the gods come to an end.” (Going under the assumption the she can see the future)

Braius

He saw the deal as the vessel “being” Predathos

Makes an affirming sound at Orym’s “it can end at job one, if you do it successfully”

Doesn’t think they went to far with the mission. “We’re on a mission to save the world. Some stuff is going to happen. It’s all in service of a greater good”

“At the end of the day, whoever succeeds, whoever has power, whoever accomplishes their goals, they can make things right. You have to win first”

Fearne

“The deal is that we would [release Predathos]”

Thinks most of the world believes in the gods

“What about the other gods? What if they have different ideas?”

Wonders if we should get the opinions of other gods

Thinks the Archheart seemed tired

Doesn’t answer Chetney’s question about how she feels about potentially being a vessel

“I mean, listen, If it’s something that’s got to be done. It’s got to be done. Personally, I think- I don’t know, I think if something is captured up there, this Predathos. Does it make us any better that we’re keeping him caged up just to save other people and other things?”

“What if [Predathos] just want[s] to go back and be with his family?”

Agrees with Dorian's “Not everything deserves a second chance.” (regarding Predathos)

Strongly agrees with Imogen’s “What the Archheart is trying to convince us to do is the exact same thing that everyone else is trying to do.”

Imogen

“[The Archheart] made some really amazing points”

“Do we really want to follow?”

The deal is that we would still wake up Predathos. That’s the deal they want; wake up Predathos.”

She highlights that the people who believe in the gods wouldn’t get what they want

“The Archheart made it pretty clear that taking Predathos would be [deadly]”

Thinks the Archheart seemed tired

Agree with Ashton’s “I do think that most scenarios in this current situation lead to just the worst that we can imagine”

Agrees with Orym’s “Ludinus is at the end of the road no matter what.”

“I haven’t really thought about it yet, Chet. I’ve been of the notion that I don’t want to let Predathos free. I know so many people disagree with what the gods do, and so many in our group do. But a lot of people on this world depend on them. To throw that all away seems callous.” (When Chetney asked about how she feels about potentially being a vessel)

Wonders if they went to far with the mission

Agree with Dorian’s “Faith’s a hard thing to let go of”

“It’s not like, you know, their faith would be shattered because they don’t know. Their faith would be shattered because their gods abandoned them. Their gods would have run away from them in their time of need when all of their Ruidians or Reilorans are destroying their lands and demons from the depths are breaking through portals. I don’t know what will happen, to Orym’s point. So I don’t know how I feel about back that play up. But I think if it’s going to happen, if it has to happen, if there’s no stopping it, if it comes down to it and he’s coming out, then I would gladly step up and at least try. But there’s no way I’m more powerful than some of the Exaltants up there already”

“I think us (Fearne and Imogen) combined, there might be some hope”

Wonders if Predathos could be like Gloamglut. “He’s just young”

"Well, I kind of sensed him. He wants to eat” (Regarding Fearne wondering if Predathos just wants to go back to his family)

Thinks that they should talk to the Matron of Ravens to see what she has to say

Agrees with Dorian’s “It was so ugly the way we did [the mission], but we did do what we came here for.”

“What the Archheart is trying to convince us to do is the exact same thing that everyone else is trying to do.”

Wonders if the RQ knew her champions would become the catalyst for the key

Orym

“We’ve yet to see one thing that proves to us what will happen after that thing is let loose. We’ve had people tell us it will be fine, we’ve had people tell us it would be destructive. We’ve had a god tell us to fight. We’ve had a god tell us to burn it all to the ground.”

He wouldn’t risk it because he doesn’t think anyone, including Ludinus, knows what will happen when Predathos is let free

Disagrees with Dorian statement of “I think it’s coming, one way or the other, and I’d rather be there when it does”

Highlights that they’re making a play for Ludinus because taking Predathos on would be deadly

Acknowledges that the gods may have different ideas

“It’s a big coin toss, guys”

Agrees with Dorian’s “There’s no one I trust more than us”

Thinks that “Ludinus is at the end of the road no matter what.”

“I don’t know that we need to decide that we have to throw the switch instead of [Ludinus] when we at least have a chance to cut off his hand before he pulls it”

Thinks that it can/could end with cutting Ludinus’ hand before he pulls the switch “if you do it successfully”

“There’s nothing saying that you have to flip that switch and turn reality upside down. None of you can tell me what will happen if one our friends does what Ludinus wants to do. None of you have any evidence, proof. Intuition doesn’t cut it. Your gut does not cut it. You are putting the population of this world at risk. So I hope you are all fucking sure at the end of the road. I’ll be there to get you there. I’ll stand by your side. I will do my damnedest to keep you all alive. But don’t let it be a coin toss or ‘let’s see what happens,’ because you just don’t know”

“I also just over the last months have the feeling that we’re walking some line and that’s why so many of them are paying attention to us. Maybe they see us as a last ditch effort”

“It is, but it’s uncanny.”(Replying to Chetney’s “it’s crazy” that they’re the gods’ last ditch effort)

“No one said it was going to be easy” (Regarding Imogen asking if they went too far with the mission)

Ashton

“It’s a deal I can get behind”

“Everyone gets what they want”

Does not think most of the world believes in the gods, just “a lot” of them do

“They get to live” (In response to Fearne talking about other gods having other ideas)

They trust Archheart the most (of all the gods) because “he’s the only one who had clear misgivings. Everyone else was hand wringing. He was the only one who was actually - He was the only one with a big picture”

Trusts Archheart because he sees them as a coward. He thinks cowards are honest

“Big coin” (when Orym says that it’s “a big coin toss”)

Feels that they would know if Ludinus was broadcasting the Gods vs Aeor already

“I do think that most scenarios in this current situation lead to just the worst that we can imagine”

Says the they trust Imogen and Fearne (after Laudna reminds Ashton of the potential second Calamity)

Thinks that “it should be us”

Agrees with Orym’s “Ludinus is at the end of the road no matter what.”

“Job one. [Ludinus] doesn’t touch the switch” (Regarding Orym's “I don’t know that we need to decide that we have to throw the switch instead of [Ludinus] when we at least have a chance to cut off his hand before he pulls it”)

Responds to Orym’s “don’t let it be a coin toss” (Regarding releasing Predathos) with “Well, then we’re very lucky that we no longer have anyone who believes and puts their faith in a coin toss” and leaves

[deramin2]

Absolutely love that Marisha was probably going to make a tamer choice, but Matt saw the perfect opportunity to push her as a Delilah, and really feed Laudna's paranoia. I think that really pushed her over the edge and Marisha fully ran with it.

And Liam really thought through what he knew (this was Laudna and she's being manipulated by Delilah but not intentionally hurting Orym), vs. what Orym knew (something he couldn't see attacked him in his sleep and he needs to defend himself from it because he had no idea what it's intentions were and has every reason to assume it's trying to kill all of them). Honestly Orym remained pretty defensive overall. Love that they both learned into how much both of them felt totally justified and like they were defending the party from harmful corrupting influence.

———

I'm someone with mental health problems that cause intrusive thoughts that can make me feel so absolutely certain that I'm justified in viewing other people as being intentionally harmful and lash out at them. In the moment it feels completely justified and righteous and a truth other people need to hear even though they'll resist it. I try really, really hard to resist expressing those thoughts. I try to remind myself I will end up regretting it and pushing people away permanently who (justifiably) won't put up with that treatment.

But sometimes it's so strong or I'm so triggered by the awfulness around me and despair that it escapes me. It feels like everyone else is lying to justify evil and I'm sick of it. Consequences be damned. It feels protective of other vulnerable people. And then I lash out and say things I regret and get yelled and blocked or dropped or otherwise lose people in my life and get more and more isolated. And feel like they're totally justified because really it's me who's the evil monster and need to be isolated for other prep people's protection because I can't be trusted and can't be better. I don't even want anyone too comfort me or love me because they don't deserve to be hurt by me eventually. (I'm not saying that's actually true, but that's how I feel and it feels very real to me while it's happening.)

———

Marisha absolutely nailed that depiction. In an ongoing way but particularly in CR C3 E95. And I love that it came right off the joyous mania of the shopping spree for and crafting season where they were all bonding and making plans for the future and letting off steam. But then she was triggered and all of that didn't matter. Off anything the strength of those emotions was a pendulum whose momentum helped her distress swing harder in the other direction.

She was triggered, and Delilah was a second layer of intrusive thoughts that made her feel so sure of her feelings and actions. 100% justified as Marisha said. And she would have been totally justified in just waking Orym up and having a conversation about the sword and at least putting it in the Bag of Holding overnight until they could make a long term decision. I think that's what Marisha was planning to do until Delilah showed up. She wasn't justified in hurting Orym in a unilateral decision that she should feed the sword to Delilah. Her thoughts were very real to get but not based on facts. Whatever her intentions she hurt Orym and avoided apologizing.

And I loved how Imogen pushed back this time. So often she's enabled Laudna because she loves her wants to comfort her. But this time I think she saw that's not what Laudna needs. She needs someone to check her and keep her from escalating. She's feeling complicated feelings right now because she loves Laudna, but she hates Delilah and what Delilah is getting Laudna to do. Like the partner of an addict who loves them, but hates what the substance is doing to them and how they're acting to feed that addiction. I can't wait to see how that plays out in the future.

The whole thing was incredibly real representation to me. This is an incredibly triggering situation that they're all in and they're all crumbling in the face of it. Chetney and Orym both made deals with Nana Mori. Chetney for fame, Orym for power. Ashton secretly took the fire primordial shard and nearly killed themselves in front of Fearne and then the other others. Imogen tried to flip her mom on the cult that's indoctrinated her for decades. FCG did blow himself up. Fearne was lured away by her shitbag sperm donor in the night so he could try to kill her and have a copy take her place. Dorian watched Lolth's crown take over Opal, his brother die, and his friends scattered. Laudna is feeding Delilah's power. None of them are okay and they're all being totally reckless. They're both bonding over their recklessness and being pushed apart by it. Can't wait to see what happens next.

[wayhaughtn7]

I did not interpret Imogen’s line about the cottage as breakup, I think it was the furthest thing from it.

Laudna is so convinced she’s a dead end for Imogen, so worthless and unworthy of love, that she’s been willingly giving herself over to the woman who murdered her because all she cares about is protecting Imogen and she doesn’t think she’s capable of that without Delilah. Which means she’s been actively making the possibility of her not having that future more probable by giving Delilah more power. So even though Laudna brought up them having a cottage, she doesn’t really believe it will happen and honestly, she even seemed to believe that Imogen didn’t really think it was possible which is why she seemed so broken after Imogen said it, she finally realized that Imogen did see that future as possible for them and now doesn’t. She seems to have finally realized that her disregard for her life and her future has hurt Imogen in a way she never wanted to. I honestly don’t think Laudna truly realized just how much Imogen loves her before this conversation or truly grasped how much her dying hurt Imogen.

Imogen on the other hand has never seen Laudna as a dead end, she looks at Laudna and sees everything good that has happened to her, it’s why she was so broken by Laudna’s death. Imogen desperately wants that future to be real and she has been using it as her motivation for every choice she makes, even her decision to not give in to Predathos and now she’s realized that Laudna doesn’t see that future as possible and she’s just so heartbroken by that realization. Which is part of why Imogen feels like she helped push Laudna into the place she is now with all their talks about using Delilah and she feels that she unintentionally helped reinforce Laudna’s low self worth to the point that now Laudna won’t even fight for them. It was essentially a realization for Imogen, and a heartbreaking one, but it’s not her giving up on them or Laudna.

I think they both needed these realizations for their relationship to have the possibility of a future. Imogen needed to realize that Laudna is willing to give up everything to protect her so that Imogen could actively work to undo some of the damage Delilah has done to Laudna so that Laudna wants to fight for that future. Laudna needed to realize that Imogen truly believed that future she talked about would happen to start even considering wanting to get rid of Delilah. I was pleasantly surprised that Laudna actually seemed more open to the possibility of getting rid of Delilah and having a life afterwards and that maybe hurting Orym and unintentionally hurting Imogen was her rock bottom. I honestly can’t wait to see where they go as a couple now because I think they might actually fight FOR their relationship more ferociously now, which will also mean Delilah will fight for control of Laudna harder. The angst is gonna be amazing.

[utilitycaster]

On the heels of your critique of C3's pacing and the sludginess of it all—something I have been contemplating lately is how the perceived need (certainly ICly and seemingly OOCly) for BH to move at a breakneck speed from event to event has had an effect on inter-party discussions and bonding that I find really pretty tragic. I can't help but wonder, would we be dealing with the indecision and rehashed circular debates we're seeing now if the party had been able to take the downtime they needed to really get to know themselves and each other, and to better define what's important to them? I often see people expressing frustration about how badly certain characters "need to TALK to each other!!!" but to date, I just don't know if the pace of the campaign has created many opportunities for that. And that's the thing I miss the most about the previous campaigns, just having more breathing room to let the characters and their relationships develop organically. I dunno. Increasingly I feel like these are interconnected issues.

I think I've talked about this before so I don't want to get too in the weeds but: yes. I think at this point Matt is like...making space deliberately for them to talk in-game, but at this point the party has spent so long not really talking and we're so late in the game that no one really takes him up on it or when they do it's the old Gods Debate again.

I really think the problem is once again what I've been saying for like, well over a year now. I don't think the cast was given as much direction as they were for campaign 2, nor was the campaign deliberately tailored to this party, so it has always been ill-fitting. Even some of the pre-planned elements have fallen flat (I have innumerable reservations about the Laudna book, but I do want to read it if only because I still could tell you basically nothing about her and Imogen's time together pre-campaign - it's one incident in Gelvaan, helping Zhudanna one time in Jrusar which wasn't even pre-planned but rather their "session zero", and apparently they saw someone with boob tassels one time). Things like Ashton and Imogen's relationships with the gods feel tacked on after Taliesin and Laura realized that having some sort of pre-existing opinion on the gods was in fact deeply relevant to this campaign; I do genuinely want an answer from both of them of whether "I had prayed to the gods and they never answered" existed in their backstories more than 5 minutes before it came up in game because I'd bet good money it was "no, I threw that in on the fly." So you have characters that are a little more broadly sketched, which would normally be fine (I mean, I don't think most of Vox Machina in the original birthday party one-shot had a terribly deep backstory to start), except for the fact that they never had to take watch, they had a patron giving them jobs and a generous stipend from the start of episode 2 until his demise in episode 38, and both Imogen and Laudna; and FCG and Ashton already had apartments in the city so no one needed to bunk up with anyone they didn't already know. The party did not need to take watches; they did not need to decide on a direction; and they didn't have to learn to resolve conflicts and make choices as a collective group. And yes, the pace has been pretty breakneck throughout, so there wasn't space early on for the cast to feel out their characters and what motivated them and how they'd act. I think the first time I saw a large number of people in the fandom going "MAKE A FUCKING DECISION ALREADY I DON'T CARE WHICH ONE" was with the party doing a similar endless handwringing about Dusk in episode 29, and I don't think they've really gotten better. Like, I do think episode 29 is already on the late side anyway, even for a long-running campaign with a lot of wiggle-room; for a long-running campaign with some very specific plot beats planned, this really needed to be done in character creation.

So now that there is more room to debrief and talk, because in-character they're still on a deadline and the world's been ending all campaign, and because that groundwork wasn't laid, they don't talk about anything except the task at hand. Like...I think a defense I've seen of this campaign is that it's about a group of people who really aren't suited for what has been laid before them, but the problem is that's kind of every D&D campaign that starts from a low level and this is a particularly weak example thereof. Vox Machina didn't show up ready to kill dragons nor Vecna, and the Mighty Nein are still Wildemount's best kept secret; both of them grew into their current hypercompetence. Bells Hells don't really belong to their story, nor does it to them, so yeah, hard to talk within that framework.

[willowbirds]

Imogen for the character asks? :3

Okay! Lets go!

First impression

I was immediately intrigued by her psychic abilities, especially considering that there hasn’t been a character like her before in the CR universe. There have been psychic powers before, but a character who actively has her mind reading active means that she is the first psychic character within the lore and I at first assumed that she was the Exandrian version of a Kalashtar.

Impression now

Oh she is so much more than the Exandrian version of a Kalashtar. She is my blorbo. My silly gal. My skrunkly that I’ve hit with my autism beam! I am always so excited whenever she gets new powers and abilities and I am hyped to see her Form of Havoc in action!

Favorite moment(s)

How do I decide? There’s her dream sequences, when she lightning bolted Laudna’s tree prison, her 33 deception roll! But there’s also her goofier moments. Like that time she fell down a flight of stairs or that moment in the lift down to mines way back in the early episodes. But honestly my favourite moments are her sweet and simple interactions with the other Hells. They range from genuine moments of venerability to chaotic shenanigans that make me laugh every time I think about them. It’s just so hard to pick with Imogen.

Idea for a story

*waves at all of my fics* They are basically all her!

Unpopular opinion (I don’t know if this is unpopular, but I’ve seen some meh takes on her so this might as well be unpopular)

Imogen is probably one of the best characters Laura Bailey has made story wise. Everyone talks about how Jester is Laura’s best, and I do agree she seems very comfortable in that character and that’s always important, but story wise Imogen is so intriguing. Her connection to the moon and her powers that keep growing leads to an uncertain story for her and that makes her so good! She has grown so much from that shy horse girl that struggled to be in crowds, and now she’s off saving the world despite what everyone says. She could have easily turned evil, but she hasn’t, and that is absolutely amazing to me!

Favourite relationship

Imogen and Ashton don’t get nearly enough screen time together and that is frankly a crime. Their dynamic is so good, with them both getting on each other’s nerves while also being there to reassure the other or snap some sense back into them. I also feel like there’s the unspoken connection of both of them having powers that they don’t fully understand. Imogen’s ever growing powers that could burst at the seams at any moment and Ashton’s dunimancy that he didn’t even have a name for until recently. They are probably also the youngest in the group in terms of years. They’re just two Marqet kids that now have to save the world even though they don’t properly understand themselves.

Favorite headcanon

That Imogen’s marks are sensitive to the touch. Often they normally tingle under someone’s touch, but someone’s touch actually burns after she has a nightmare and they sting profusely if she breaks the skin around or on them. The only person whose touch doesn’t do this is Laudna’s because of how cold her skin is and after a nightmare it’s a huge relief to Imogen. I also headcanon that she has a mark along her spine. (Same thing above applies here). I might do a fic fully exploring this headcanon at some point.

[randoimago]

Hi! A little while ago you got a request for Orym and a reader who is really awkward but is really trying to be friends. Could you please do the same prompt but with Ashton, Fearne, Laudna and Imogen? Thank you!!

Fandom: Critical Role

Character(s): Ashton, Fearne, Imogen, Laudna

Note(s): Here you go!!

Ashton

Making friends isn't his thing. He's hotheaded and blunt and just doesn't care about many things. Caring is hard and most things he cares about end up breaking so he doesn't like adding people to the list.

The stares you give him and fidgeting you do makes him fidget and start overthinking. He'll bluntly make a comment about you "taking a picture, it'll last longer". He just assumed you were staring cause he's weird looking (something that he doesn't take offense to because it's true).

But you aren't completely scared off by him and so he decides to talk because that's something normal people do. Honestly finds it hilarious that you'd want to be friends with him, but whatever. Ashton ends up mad at himself that he adds you to his list later.

Fearne

Fearne sees you staring and looking like you want to say something, so she's already in your space. Like Ashton, she assumes you're staring for a reason. Unlike Ashton, she thinks you're staring because she's hot.

Fearne talks to you, being playful and asking what your deal is. And then she learns that you're trying to figure out how to be her friend.

She's very touched by your words and finds it adorable. But she's Fearne and she can't help saying, "Why would I want to be your friend?" Before laughing it off and saying "Just kidding." She actually means the just kidding this time.

Imogen

She's used to the stares and uncomfortable vibes other people have around her. She's honestly tempted to open her mind to hear what you're thinking, but also doesn't know if she should in case it is more negativity. Eventually gives in and listens to your surface thoughts.

Imogen feels bad as she hears you contemplate how to talk to her and seem cool. She thought you were thinking bad about her, but you're just wanting to be friends.

Thing is, Imogen can be awkward with approaching people too. But she still does, giving a small "Hi." and then trying to figure out what to do. Should she compliment your shirt? Talk about the weather? You're both just awkward together, she's tempted to bring her extrovert friend into the mix.

Laudna

Laudna is pretty much the same way. She's so awkward, but that's not going to stop her from making friends!

Will introduce her dead rat to you. Will show you the fun/scary dolls she has. Ooh maybe you'll like to hear a joke! It's a classic from Whitestone. A real tree-t (treat), if you will.

And she wants to hear all about your hobbies too. You don't even get to be quiet or reserved as she is in your space trying to become friends. She just hopes you don't notice her quick glances to Imogen to make sure she's getting a thumbs up that she's doing a good job.

[unicyclehippo]

release (cr3) for the one word prompt

‘okay. alright,’ imogen says when nana morri gestures for them to go, that all is prepared. no one has stepped into the muck yet. ‘this might be a dumbass idea—‘

‘say it,’ chet encourages, immediately. ‘that’s pretty much the main thing we’ve learned today, right? no bad ideas when they’re just ideas.’

imogen nods, once and then more quickly. ‘right. okay. well, okay. okay. y’all might’ve noticed i took off the circlet—‘ orym nods. so does laudna. the others glance up to where it’s been sitting, which makes sense, being too occupied with their own things to see the tiny change. ‘so. i can look into your minds and then we’ll know who is the doppelgänger.’

silence.

then,

‘it sort of defeats the purpose of the challenge, doesn’t it?’ laudna inquires. ‘you know you’re welcome in my mind any time you wish, darling, but…this is supposed to be about trust, is it not?’

‘i dunno. i’m with mogen. trust is fine when you’re with your pals but if there’s two fuckos in the mix?’ chetney narrows his eyes. ‘bet i could sniff ‘em out. wonder how that works, changing into us. reckon they smell like us? walk like us?’

‘doppelgängers are fucking excellent at what they do. real hard to find.’ ashton scowls at the sidelong looks that earns them. ‘what? i fought one before.’

‘what do they look like cracked open?’ chetney cups a hand around his ear when ashton mumbles something. ‘what was that?’

‘i didn’t get it, okay?’ ashton snaps. ‘it got away. it can look like anyone, of course it fucking got away.’

‘hm. excellent at what they do. got away from you and your hammer… maybe. or maybe you are a doppel and you’re big talking your friends!’ chetney accuses, whipping out a chisel.

‘whoa!’ orym stepped between them, hands outstretched. ‘hold on.’

‘oh, so accusations are a good move but readin’ minds isn’t. got it.’

‘not helping, imogen.’

she lifts her hands in surrender. turns a worried look toward the muck and the altars. they’re wasting time with this. it’d be so easy—read for unfamiliar fey minds, kick out the doubles, grab the sticks.

‘it’s about trust,’ laudna whispers in her ear. she touches a finger to imogen’s wrist as if she doesn’t know - isn’t sure if it’s okay - and some of that is ambient thoughts, imogen thinks, which means it’s gotta be laudna. right? how far did the doubles magic extend? had laudna been thinking about that through both their tests, if it would be wrong to touch her? she grabs laudna’s hand tight. laudna sighs, relieved. ‘it’s about trust,’ she says again. orym nods. ‘what if… we must trust ourselves. our judgement, our instincts. do you remember what it was like to be a group at the start? we didn’t know one another but we had a mutual goal. we trusted one another just enough.’

‘enough to think you guys wouldn’t fuck us over,’ ashton muttered.

‘or you us,’ orym pointed out.

‘point.’

‘so…’ imogen picks up where laudna had left off, giving her hand a squeeze. laudna wraps her other hand tight around her wrist and leans in close, close enough for the floral-rot of her smell to overtake imogen’s senses, lighting her world up pink and bright. ‘uh. we - we can pretend we’re brand new. we need these branches.’

‘i think we can all agree imogen’s herself,’ FCG begins.

‘what! i mean, i am, but -‘

chetney hoots a laugh. ‘you’re blushing over laudna like you’ve never kissed a girl. you have kissed her, right?’

‘yes!’

‘multiple times!’ laudna insists.

‘ooh, multiple,’ chetney teases. ‘sounds sexy.’

sounds like it’s none of your business, imogen says harshly direct into chetney’s mind.

he winces, hand going to his temple. ‘yeah, that’s our imogen. damn! can you chill out? you gotta scream it?’

she narrows her eyes. he flinches, exaggerated, but there’s a smug grin curling his lips up on one side. it feels good to tease and be teased like this. imogen releases a breath she’s been holding onto way too long. rubs her temple.

‘so i’m normal. chet’s normal.’

‘fearne’s been quiet,’ laudna husks in her ear.

fearne’s ears prick up. ‘whoa! ‘scuse you!’

‘well it’s true!’ laudna hunches into herself, uses her grip on imogen’s hand as an anchor, ‘Its true, it is, its true, and none of us would suspect you, she’s your nana, it could be you—’

‘laud.’

‘it could be true,’ laudna says, lip jutting forward.

imogen kisses her. ‘it could be,’ she agrees, voice gentle. ‘but you’re the one who just told us we need to trust.’ she watches laudna blink, then blink again.

‘i did. i- i’m sorry, fearne.’

the faun feigns insult for a moment before she smiles cheekily. ‘that’s alright. i wasn’t listening anyway. i was thinking about trust.’ she eyes each of them, then her nana, and with a very casual sigh and a shrug, steps into the muck.

‘fearne!’

‘we’re not getting anything done hanging out there. orym? wanna get on my back? the mud looks pretty deep.’

orym scrambles up to her shoulders, leaning over her head to peer across the muck. ‘i think i see a path to the first altar. see?’ he points.

fearne hums. ‘i could drown you in the mud pretty easy.’

orym blooms a flower in his hand, tucks it into her hair. ‘please don’t.’

she laughs and walks deeper into the mud, into the test. the mud parts behind her, vague currents pulling through the sludge. it makes sense. there’s such a gravity to fearne. such a pull. did it feel any different? was this still fearne?

trust.

chetney uses ashton’s arm to climb him, keep him lifted out of the mud. he perches on the shoulder of the new arm. laudna eyes the mud warily. it sucks around imogen’s ankles and she knows immediately that FCG and laudna are going to have trouble.

‘ash, wait.’ he flinches when they talk to him now. his mind—she’s not looking but she can’t help but hear—his mind flinches too, scatters like the thunder wasps. flighty, storm front. then reordering to attack. was he afraid her next words would be, stay here? we can’t trust you? kill yourself? ‘can you carry FCG?’

ashton limps to FCG. ‘okay?’

‘sure!’

‘i’ll put you down when you want. you just gotta say.’

‘i know,’ FCG says. ‘i trust you!’

ashton ducks their head. they lift up FCG with a grunt and march into the mud behind fearne, wordlessly following where she leads.

imogen turns. ‘i can make us fly. keep your pretty new dress outta the mud.’ laudna flushes a mottled sort of pink-purple. she nods. her thoughts are syrup sticky-sweet as she meets Imogen’s eyes. ‘i love you.’

laudna smiles. ‘but do you trust me?’ when imogen hesitates, laudna brushes a crooked finger over imogen’s cheek. ‘i don’t think you have since i broke your rock.’

‘i forgave you for that months ago, laud,’

‘yes i know. i know. but there’s a part of you that knows i’m—i’m not me. i’m her.’

‘no—‘

‘yes. and you don’t trust her. you hate her. she disgusts you.’

‘laudna.’

‘it’s fine,’ laudna tells her, so quietly, so sweetly, so sadly. ‘i know. i understand. i feel it myself. but for right now, my love, do you trust that i am myself?’

imogen nods. how can she not? it’s laudna, standing right in front of her. she lets her magic fill her, rise into her skin and out, crackling into her air surrounding her, surrounding them. hooking an arm around laudna’s waist, she lifts them both into the air.

the first and second branches are easy. they’re guarded by traps and quick, muddy creatures they repel and run from, not wanting to harm anything in nana’s realm that can’t be healed.

they’re approaching the third branch when fearne says,

‘i don’t think any of us are doubles.’

ashton pauses. ‘wait. what?’

‘i don’t think any of us—‘

‘we heard you, fearnie,’ imogen says through gritted teeth. she’s trying to run the maths. two doubles. laudna and chet are definitely who they say they are, so is she. so it’s orym and fearne, most likely. right? ‘why do you think that?’

‘it doesn’t make sense! this is supposed to be trust building for all of us. why would any of us sit out?’

‘it’s a trick,’ laudna breathes. ‘a conniving trick. if we are all ourselves—‘

‘but we think two of us aren’t ourselves,’ oryn takes up the train of thought,

‘then we waste time being suspicious of each other instead of just doing what we’re supposed to do.’

‘seems like an apt tie-in to what we hope to do on the moon,’ FCG says, cradled in ashton’s arms. ‘less likely to succeed in our mission if we’re too busy double-checking what everyone else is up to.’

‘fearne,’ imogen breathes. ‘that’s brilliant.’

fearne flips her hair, demurs with a coy smile. ‘of course.’

‘plus, wouldn’t it make us trust each other less if we couldn’t figure it out now and forever more sort of weren’t sure if any of our friends had been replaced?’

‘true, but when you put it that way, that does kinda sound like something nana would do,’ fearne laughs. ‘look out, trap in the mud here.’ orym leans over and drops a white snapdragon blossom where fearne points. ‘okay, third stick, here we go!’

[tangent101]

Laudna and the Significance of the Kiss

As much as I loved seeing Imogen finally admit how much she loves Laudna by kissing her, and with Laudna actually reciprocating by Laudna initiate kissing Imogen for their second kiss, one thing that stood out was how happy and bouncy she was after all of that, with her new outfit and all that.

It would be natural to wonder just what helped Laudna start to heal, and I think there were several things. But foremost among this is Laudna needed to confess what she did to Bor'Dor. She had to admit that not only did she finish Bor'Dor off, she opened the door to Delilah in doing so. More... she is tempted not to fix the latter problem and use Delilah in getting stronger to stop Ludinus.

Imogen was instrumental in this. For all the claims that they're unhealthy for each other, that they encourage bad traits in the other, well, that's nonsense. Imogen understood where Laudna was coming from. She stated that they could fight this - both Ruidus and Delilah.

The other thing that did help was for Laudna to get new clothes. She went through a huge change. She embraced a part of herself that she thought she'd put behind her... and was going to use that aspect to try and defeat their foes. Her old outfit likely just reminded her of Bor'Dor and her feelings of guilt.

This is not to discount the impact of learning Imogen loves her! And honestly... there is a small part of Marisha in Laudna, thinking that she's unlovable. She created a character not meant to be romanced! And she found that part of her loved anyway. It's no wonder Marisha tripped over her own chair after Laura Bailey pulled that card out of her deck. To be someone who thinks you can't be loved because of who you are... and to have someone else say "I love you" anyway... it is one of the most devastatingly wonderful feelings in the world.

I would know. I've been there.

So yeah. Laudna is in a better place right now. She is on a path to healing. But it's not just the kiss. It's the acceptance of Laudna even after she admitted the most horrible thing she's ever done... and knowing she is still loved and accepted. That is what has helped Laudna start to heal.

[cringefaecompilation]

DORIAN STORM, ROBBIE DAYMOND, AND THE CRITICAL ROLE FANDOM: AN ADDENDUM

aka: zoinks, scoob! it got worse!

(same disclaimer as before: we’re talking about racism, not how annoying you think xyz white character is or how much you want to punt all xyz shippers into a fire. keep your comments focused on dorian himself; it feels counterproductive when conversations about the racism experienced by actors of color and the fictional characters they play snowballs into shitting on fictional white characters and completely ignoring the former.)

as should be obvious, this is an addition to my other long post about dorian storm's racist treatment by fandom which can be found here. now onto my suffering for the past couple of weeks!

so in my original post, i said the following:

i guess i shouldn’t have jumped the gun on how racist people really could be, huh?

now, i did initially want to discuss the people who immediately assumed dorian would be vocally anti-god upon reuniting with the hells and join the vanguard in that post or wished death on him for abandoning dariax. i was already frustrated at how eager everyone was to jump on that train; there’s certainly something to be said about people wanting him to join the vanguard because it’d be “sexy” which very much ignores the fact it’s a soul-sucking cult that uses emotional manipulation and violence to keep its members in line. why would you wish that upon a character you allegedly like?

but there were enough people who were just happy to see him again to drown them out for the time being and it wasn’t like this hadn’t happened before: both orym and laudna had tons of people insisting post episode 63 that they were turning evil and imogen couldn’t have so much as sneezed without people insisting she was a pure evil bitch destined to become the bbeg. maybe this, too, would peter out. and it seemed like it did when everyone was hunky-dory with dorian returning up until episode 102.

the cr cooldown for episode 102 had robbie say that he could see what ludinus was getting at: the gods struck first so ludinus was on some level, justified in his actions and orym’s family just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. he could relate due to seeing melora and lloth basically team up to kidnap opal and maul cyrus to death. fandom went berserk and assumed he would join the ruby vanguard immediately and bell’s hells would need to kill him. usually orym for angst, but i did see a few people who really hated dorian already because of do/rym shippers that wanted imogen to kill him to spite said shippers and prove her innocence. these people legitimately assumed that he would tell orym to his face that his family deserved death because the gods made ludinus sad.

so, what about when the exact opposite happened in canon and orym more or less told dorian that if ludinus hadn’t activated the malleus key, then his brother wouldn’t have had to die by the gods’ hands? or that if his brother had been killed by ludinus or the vanguard, then he wouldn’t care about the gods having done awful things in the past?

the best-case scenario here is that orym overstepped in trying to keep them away from ludinus’ dangerous rhetoric of letting everything burn down out of spite and didn’t think his example through before saying it. the worst-case scenario is that orym told dorian he’s insincerely using his brother’s death as an excuse for ludinus’ fascistic actions and isn’t actually traumatized by it.

eithher way one thing is clear: intent and actions are two very different things. his intentions (prevent his friends from being indoctrinated into a murder cult no matter what) were good but the implicit statement that he does not trust dorian to make the right decision without being herded into it is nothing short of condescending. i can imagine he’ll apologize for this, but as it stands it was an incredibly awful thing for him to say, especially after coming off him realizing how nasty he’d been to laudna in the past few weeks. it hurts even more when you take into consideration that dorian trusts orym as a leader and protector over anybody else and took his side in an argument completely no more than two days ago.

fandom, of course, did not see it that way. from calling him a spoiled brat who sympathized with the evil wizards of aeor instead of the gods because of his royal status (misapplying intersectionality and implying the squall is the same as a fascist mageocracy, ew!) to directly telling him to watch his tone (holy fucking shit) or shut up because he was an idiot that didn’t know what he was talking about.

even “nicer” posts about the situation tried to imply it was all dorian’s fault for not being forthright with everything that had happened to his brother and the crownkeepers and if he’d just done that, orym wouldn’t have been such a jerk. which, if i may crib the tags off @tiredqueermushroom, why do people of color need to explain their motivations in detail when white characters can just insinuate something and their (usually) white fans will headcanon themselves into complacency? and no, he didn’t omit any details or underexplain, both orym and fearne looked miserable after finding out what happened to their old team! they knew damn well what happened and how it affected him! others said that he needed to be educated by all these white people on how great the gods are which is... uh… please read a history book. please.

and this starts to form a pattern: how come deanna was tone-policed and accused of being emotionally abusive for questioning an awesomely being that could vaporize her out of existence but fcg is treated as being completely innocent and kind when he asked the exact same question to another awesomely powerful being? outside of this campaign, how come beau had to be seen sobbing about her abusive family for episodes on end and explain all her motivations in detail before anyone believed her or gave her the time of day outside of characterizing her as an asshole, but caleb was allowed to be self-centered and objective with only his own trauma as an excuse? outside of race, how come astrid becke, a woman groomed beginning at age fifteen was seen as an evil cackling minion to the bbeg, but essek thelyss, a grown man who made the active decision to screw over his entire country out of spite is a sad innocent baby who was tricked by a mean ol’ hubris wizard and has no agency in his actions?

and again, almost none of the fanbase acknowledges he’s native or even that he is a person of color, which makes all of this even more horrific! does your racism really run that deep that even past all your whitewashed headcanons, you see an actor with an ounce of melanin and instantly assume the worst? is it because he's here with his own opinions and a narrative you cannot personally control that makes you uncomfortable?

in the words of the great lou wilson: y’all freaks.

[stickandthorn]

The thing about Imogen and Laudna’s relationship is that I want to like it so bad. Not just because it’s a very important relationship for two PCs that takes up a lot of runtime, but because there are a lot of elements that could be explored in the relationship that I really like the idea of. For instance, how do you navigate a close relationship with someone who can look into your mind? What kind of trust does that necessitate you build, what kind of boundaries do you have to set and how, and what happens if those boundaries are crossed? Is that imbalance in the relationship uncomfortable for Laudna? For Imogen? How would the circlet have changed this theoretical conflict?

But then those elements just… don’t get explored. Nothing gets explored. The relationship is stagnant, nothing ever changes, and the few conflicts that can’t be avoided get smoothed over without actual resolution so that they can go back to the place they started from all the way in episode 1. And there’s nothing to imply that the reason they’re so conflict free is that they worked out the biggest bumps in their dynamic before the stream, they’ve already communicated a lot and set up the most comfortable form of their relationship, and now it’s mostly smooth sailing (and even then, even the longest and best relationships still have conflicts you need to work through). No, everything signals that they’ve just avoid anything that could possibly cause conflict for years. Conflict or some other interruption of the status quo is how things change, and that’s how people grow, but they avoid any break in the status quo at all costs.

And because they avoid conflicts, they never grow in the relationship, they never explore, they never change it, nothing changes. And because the relationship is so important to both characters, because it takes up so much of their time in general and on screen, it feels like it also keeps Imogen and Laudna from growing individually. Both of them, but especially Laudna, had amazing arcs and great growth when they were separated from each other. Way more than when they were together. And even that feels like it’s getting pushed under the rug again, they’re reverting back to episode 1 status quo Laudna and Imogen.

And the worst part is that every time there’s been conflict in the relationship I’ve loved it. The gnarlrock thing, Laudna expressing her frustration at the other half of the party, those were really really good moments. I genuinely loved their dynamic in those moments, I want more of the relationship those moments imply. But they’re few and far between, and when they happen, the two back away from the issue and revert back to the status quo.

And I don’t think this is bad characterization, I think it makes sense for them, and I’ve made posts before about why I think their relationship is that way. But it is so constant, so unchanging, that it just gets tiring to watch. Especially when no other character ever acknowledges this part of their relationship, they all encourage it. Like, the kiss was cute for sure, but what did it do in their relationship? Nothing. If you removed the kiss there would be no discernible before and after.

I don’t begrudge anyone liking the relationship, if you do that’s great. I do genuinely mean that, I am glad that you like their relationship, I really wish I did. I want to like it so bad. But I just don’t. I’m tired of it. I wish the stuff I liked in the potential of their relationship would ever get brought up. If things do change for them, I will be so excited, but based on how it’s been going, they don’t seem like they will anytime soon. This is very lightly edited and way longer than I meant it to be, but the point is that god I wish I loved them, but god I really really don’t.