#this is about fandom but also just generally

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Aaaaa Yuuna is so cuuutee 💗😆 Her hair is so prettyyy. But with the addition of the new Yuu I’ve come up with a theory that with the pattern the mangas have taken so far, they’ll start switching back and fourth between male and female yuus for the rest of the dorms:

Heartslabyul - Yuuken (Male)

Savanaclaw - Yuuka (Female)

Octavinelle - Yuuta (Male)

Scarabia - Yuuna (Female)

Pomefiore - Male

Ignihyde - Female

Diasomnia - Male

Just something I came up with that i wanted to share with you ^^ Also who is the manga artist for Scarabia 🤔

[Referencing the Episode of Scarabia!]

Lots of Yuuna-related asks recently (and for good reason!) so I decided to lump them all into one post :DD

Yes, Yuuna is very cute~ The alternating genders of the manga!Yuus has actually been a pretty popular theory for a while now, actually! Some believe this is meant to be the Yuus having the opposite genders as the Great Seven member of their respective books/dorms. But yeah, the pattern seems likely at this point.

The mangaka for the Episode of Scarabia is Majiko-sensei! They have previously contributed a chapter to the manga anthology. You can read more about their past works here.

I'm not sure if "[taking] care of [one's] appearance" is the right phrase to use (as it unintentionally implies other Yuus are slobs/don't care about how they present themselves, when that's definitely not the case)? Maybe it would be more accurate to say, "Yuuna has stereotypically feminine aesthetic tastes", though it's more immature and preppy than Vil's is. I think Yuuna has a cuteness that's more characteristic of Cater than Vil--but all three of them definitely have overlap in their interests in makeup, fashion, social media, etc. I feel like Yuuna would get along with them both!! We do technically see her interacting with Cater (they take a selfie before he departs for winter break) and are assumed to have already known each other due to the events of books 1 and 2. Too bad we don't really get to see them interact in those books... and that we won't see Yuuna interact with Vil for the Episode of Pomefiore. We'll have a new Yuu by then (which gets into my disappointment with never being able to fully follow a single manga!Yuu and their character arc through to the end of the main story...)💦

Yeah, it's nice to have variety in the manga!Yuus' personalities, skillsets, and interests! ^^ It makes them a lot of fun to follow, even if we know they'll only be with us for the length of one book/dorm.

I've personally really been loving Yuuta and Yuuna a lot. Yuuken and Yuuka are also nice, but I find that their general characters are kind of similar (athletic and level-headed) and don't differ enough to result in interactions unique from game!Yuu (with perhaps the exception of them being able to physically contribute to battles). This is not true of Yuuta and Yuuna, whose abilities extend to other areas and therefore have a larger impact on the world and its characters. For example, Yuuta's love of food + cooking skill has him shouting at Grim sometimes for not appreciating food, but it also becomes excellent leverage for sleeping over at Savanaclaw later in book 3. You can also see how Yuuna's outgoing personality would draw people to her and allow her to make connections.

The manga!Yuus also speak to the diversity of Yuus we see in the fandom. I know a lot of us were waiting for a girl Yuu (which we got with Yuuka), a Yuu of different body type (which we got with Yuuta), and a very femme presenting Yuu (which we got with Yuuna). Yuuken is also great because he was the first Yuu we got that actually had the ability and the confidence in his fighting capabilities to charge head-on into an OB fight.

As I state in my pinned post, manga raws generally come from Monthy GFantasy, which publishes new chapters of the Twst manga online each month. You must PAY to access those raws.

In the case of the Episode of Scarabia, the full first volume was released in today. It is avaliable on Kindle through the Amazon JP store. This is still something you would need to PAY for if you're interested in seeing the full thing right away.

I cannot provide full chapters to the public, as this is paid content that I receive from my own friends who subscribe to GFantasy and/or who bought the first volume of Scarabia on Kindle. You can make your own decision whether or not you wish to purchase for yourself; however, there is most likely a scanlation team that will put out an English version sooner or later. Again though, this would surely take some time to get done, especially when there's 4 chapters of Scarabia to translate.

[saintsenara]

Hi, do you have an analysis for why you prefer bottom Tom? Most fics have him as a top, but I'm very interested in your perspective ma'am.

well, the short answer is because i want to and because i can.

the longer answer is that i just don't find any of the arguments for why voldemort would never bottom under any circumstances to be as convincing and definitive as their proponents claim them to be.

my issue - to be clear - isn't with people having a preference for reading or writing about him being a top. it's with the fact that him only being a top - and not only that, but him being repulsed or humiliated by the idea of bottoming - is typically presented as such an objective fact that preferring to read or write about him being a bottom provokes responses which range from the simply annoying - "this is out of character!" [any fic in which he consensually shags his prophesied child-enemy is out of character, be serious] - to the genuinely troubling - "it's disgusting! voldemort is a real man and real men don't want anything up their arses!".

obviously - let's be real - a lot of the arguments about why bottom!voldemort is impossible are just typical "slash fandom reinvents gender roles" shit - they essentially boil down to "omg no harry would bottom because he's the girl".

but others do come with more weight behind them. and two of these are:

that the gender norms voldemort was raised with would inculcate in him a big lump of internalised homophobia which would make him see bottoming as feminine, and - in seeing it as feminine - see it as weak, humiliating, dependent, and incompatible with his understanding of control and power. that voldemort would be horrified by the idea of being penetrated, because he would see it as something which polluted or profaned the body he considers to be sacred.

i do think it's possible to argue both of these points robustly, using actual readings of the text rather than just vibes. i've just never found any of these readings compelling.

and the reason why all comes down to this:

"I knew I was different," he whispered to his own quivering fingers. "I knew I was special. Always, I knew there was something." [HBP 13]

he's talking about something specific - how he's always known that he's a wizard - here, of course. but we can also take this statement and use it to think more generally about how he views being perceived as deviant, strange, or wrong by the norms of the society in which he lives.

by which i mean... he's somebody who believes that being different makes him special and that people who try to punish or shame him for his difference are idiots who simply haven't yet worked out that he's superior to them in literally everything he does. he's not someone who perceives being different in a self-flagellating way - he doesn't think there's something wrong with him, he doesn't think that his difference makes him a pathetic or unimpressive person. and he's also not somebody who views being criticised or punished for his difference as something which causes him sorrow or anxiety. it causes him rage - because it inconveniences him [it creates obstacles he has to overcome, although he entirely believes he can overcome them] and because it doesn't recognise his self-conception as the protagonist of reality:

Riddle's reaction to this was most surprising. He leapt from the bed and backed away from Dumbledore, looking furious. "You can't kid me! The asylum, that's where you're from, isn't it? 'Professor,' yes, of course - well, I'm not going, see? That old cat's the one who should be in the asylum. I never did anything to little Amy Benson or Dennis Bishop, and you can ask them, they'll tell you!"   "I am not from the asylum," said Dumbledore patiently. "I am a teacher and, if you will sit down calmly, I shall tell you about Hogwarts. Of course, if you would rather not come to the school, nobody will force you -" "I'd like to see them try," sneered Riddle. "Hogwarts," Dumbledore went on, as though he had not heard Riddle's last words, "is a school for people with special abilities -"   "I'm not mad!" [HBP 13]

you can entertain a very dark reading of this scene - in fact, i have - but it's also possible to entertain a liberating one, and see the child voldemort as someone who has always been proud of his difference and prepared to defend that pride in the face of censure, and who is absolutely delighted to be given the language to define and describe his difference and to be given access to a community of people who are similarly - in his words - special.

all of which is to say... the standard interpretation in fandom seems to be that a queer voldemort would fall somewhere on a spectrum from indifferent to his sexuality to actively ashamed of it.

but i think it's much, much more plausible that he'd actually be proud of it, and for his statement - "i knew i was different... i knew i was special" - to be used as the starting point for how we might imagine him realising that he's queer.

and this is why the "he'd have so much internalised homophobia he'd never bottom" argument always falls flat for me - it rests on an assumption that queer men having to grow past a childhood/teenage fear that there's something wrong with them is the default position. it overlooks the fact that there are many ways for somebody to come to understand their own sexuality.

and that two of those ways are "defiantly" and "spitefully". aka the lord voldemort special.

something which always stands out to me about the canonical voldemort, both when he's a good-looking teenager/young man and a monstrous, serpentine adult, is that - even with all the phallic symbolism which surrounds him [enormous snakes and ultra-powerful wands and so on] - the text presents him as somebody who comes across as fairly effeminate:

he's typically described - as we can see from this excellent analysis from @said-snape-softly - as speaking "softly" or "quietly". when he isn't, he's often "shrill", "shrieking", "screeching", or "screaming".

he has a hair-trigger temper and he's extremely emotionally volatile.

he's typically described as moving in ways which have similarly feminine connotations - he "drifts" and "glides". while the primary doylist reason for this is clearly so the reader associates him with snakes, ghosts, and dementors, it ends up giving him a quality of movement which is fey, rather than powerful and purposeful. indeed, we only ever see him do one thing which requires physical, as well as magical, prowess - duelling. but, like fencing - which is its real-world equivalent - good duellists aren't people who are physically strong or imposing, they're people who are cunning and nimble [and the other men the text emphasises are good at it are snape, flitwick, and harry - with harry's quick reflexes being explicitly given as a reason why [i.e. GoF 34] ]. his ability to fly is a demonstration of his magical power alone, since it allows him to circumvent the need to use a broom, which does appear to require physical strength [hence why the only main characters who aren't fond of using brooms are either women or fat, cowardly little boys like neville...]

building on this, he's often described in ways which make him sound quite physically fragile - he's very thin, he's very pale, he's always cold, every time his heartbeat is described it seems to be irregular and so on.

his reputation in his teens and young adulthood is as a "polite [and] quiet" goody-two-shoes who "showed no sign of outward arrogance or aggression at all" [HBP 17]. i think that point about aggression is really important - it builds on what mrs cole tells dumbledore about it being "very hard to catch him" bullying other orphans [HBP 13]. he's not dudley - or james and sirius - using his physical talents to subdue and control people. he's sneakier... more insidious... indeed, in chamber of secrets, ron explicitly compares him to percy - somebody else the text presents as fairly effete - in order to complain about him "squealing" - aka, running to tell a teacher, like a girl, instead of settling things like a man - on hagrid [CoS 14].

when he's a young man, living alone for the first time, the text thinks it's very important to tell us that he has "slightly longer hair" than he does at school [HBP 20]. "slightly" is obviously the operative word here - i don't think he's strutting into hepzibah smith's house in a twenty-four inch lace-front - but we can certainly imagine him with the sort of greaser or pompadour haircut which was understood in the 1950s as being a bit counter-cultural...

of the five horcruxes which are objects - rather than harry and nagini [who is, of course, female] - three [cup, diadem, locket] originally belonged to a woman and are acquired from a woman, two [cup, locket] are acquired by killing a woman using a stereotypically female murder method [poison], two are connected to voldemort's rage at his mother being disparaged [locket - he's furious to hear hepzibah say that merope must have stolen it, ring - he attacks morfin immediately after morfin calls his mother a "slut"]. and all five of these horcruxes also depend on women to introduce them into the narrative in a way that facilitates their destruction: the diary is given to ginny; dumbledore puts on the ring in order to speak to his sister; the locket is associated both with walburga's grief [it's literally moved from the cave - voldemort's grave for his mother - to the house which is walburga's own tomb!] and with umbridge's performance of femininity; the cup is given to bellatrix [and the text is very clear that both she and voldemort understand it as having only been given to her, rather than to her and rodolphus] and is then destroyed - albeit off-stage - by hermione; and harry is given the tools to acquire the diadem by cho, luna, and mcgonagall, although he has to overcome the obstacles of alecto carrow and helena ravenclaw to get hold of it. harry - of course - also only becomes a horcrux because of a woman - lily's - sacrifice.

his favourite death eaters are a woman and a very feminine-coded man. but - more interestingly - what the text finds unimpressive isn't that he likes bellatrix and snape... it's that he leaves a lot of his dirty work to male minions who are characterised by their brutish strength - people like greyback, hagrid [who he makes carry harry up to hogwarts], rowle, gibbon, amycus carrow and so on. there's the heavy implication in the text that voldemort's preference for leaving the violence to others - as i'm always pointing out, his canonical kill count is really low; most of the murders in the series are done by other death eaters acting on his orders - is something we should see as weak.

the text associates him with this effeminacy - i think it's really important to note, given who jkr is - as a criticism. it's something - much like the text's presentation of him as aromantic, and the fact that the degradation of his looks via the creation of the horcruxes makes him look sexless/eunuch-like - being used to underscore his villainy. he's feminine-coded in a toxic way.

but let's take this in another direction [and let's also return to the actual question you asked me...] and read him as someone who has always had to deal with being perceived as queer by other people, and having that perception be associated with negative assumptions.

he's very easy to imagine as a child/teenager who's the target of ridicule from his fellow orphans/fellow students [for not being sporty, for liking to sit in the library for hours on end coming up with anagrams of his own name, for the way he walks and speaks] which hinges on the idea that his failure to conform to the expected conventions of "proper" masculinity mean that he's not a proper man... and that if he's not a proper man then... he's not straight.

but then we have to come back to the "i knew i was special" point, don't we?

voldemort's belief in his own superiority can - in my view - be used to read him as somebody who would embrace being camp or effeminate or whatever term we want to use, in order both to express his contempt for people who criticise him ["think i'm a messed up little deviant, do you, mrs cole? well, you don't know the half of it!"] and who conform to social norms he thinks are reprehensible ["oh, do purebloods frown upon bottoming, abraxas? well - guess what - so do muggles. do you agree with what muggles think?"] and to humiliate, subjugate, and control them ["you think i'm a faggot, do you...? well, you're right... i'm a faggot who's defeated you in battle and now i'm about to kill you... still feel like a man?"].

while - obviously - appearance/gender presentation has nothing to do with preferred sexual roles - the manliest men on earth can be bottoms! being femme doesn't prevent you topping! - i really do think that voldemort is someone who can be written entirely canon-coherently as thinking that the homophobic perception of bottoming as weak, powerless, or humiliating is complete nonsense, and who would actively flaunt his rejection of this perception as a way to mock people who subscribe to it.

after all, we see him do something similar in canon when it comes to his blood-status and social class. the death eaters - lots of whom are posh pureblood men who conceive of themselves as the most important people in the universe - are made to kneel at the feet of and kiss the robes of and be branded like cattle by and be at the beck and call of someone who's neither pureblood nor posh. there are - as lupin tells us - no wizarding princes... and yet the closest things the wizarding world has to an aristocracy are rolling around on the ground debasing themselves and calling a half-blood orphan "my lord".

voldemort does this to humiliate them. but he also does this to amuse himself - à la logan roy making men who've displeased him play "boar on the floor".

[wormtail being forced to care for him when he's in his half-form at the start of goblet of fire, for example. he's not humiliated in the slightest by his dependence on wormtail... wormtail is humiliated by it, and voldemort finds it hilarious.]

and so i think we can plausibly imagine him also deeply enjoying making his straight, married, "i would die before i let anything near my arse", "i'm not getting changed for quidditch with so-and-so there, he's queer", "i'd disown my son if i found out he let other men fuck him" death eaters grovel for the favour of someone who loves getting railed...

this deeply aligns with how voldemort understands things like power and control - and it's why the argument that he'd only top because he would regard it as the only way of being powerful and controlling never hits for me.

because this also rests on an assumption - that the bottom always understands themselves as the passive partner. i do think the fandom is broadly getting better at recognising that bottoms and submissives are different things [although the bar was on the floor...], but i think there's still a tendency to default to the idea that the two people involved in sex are an active partner and a passive partner, and that the passive partner is - for want of a better term - the receptacle.

the language used around bottoming reinforces this assumption. its voice is passive - the bottom is penetrated, is bred, is fucked, is taken - its verbs are passive too - the top does, the bottom receives.

but the thing is... this is just semantics. and it's a semantic argument directly rooted in misogyny, and the homophobia which stems from and connects to it.

and - since it's just semantics - we can change the language we use at any time to completely reconfigure the assumed power dynamic.

the bottom grants access. the bottom consumes. the bottom takes. the bottom absorbs. the bottom uses. the bottom captures. the bottom detains. the bottom grips. the bottom devours. the bottom permits. the bottom destroys.

the top is the person who's passive - who receives permission, who is granted access, who is consumed, who is absorbed, who is captured. the top is the person having their life-force leached from them. they're just a toy, just a piece of meat. they literally don't matter.

and the text already uses this sort of language - the language of consumption and capture and permission to cross thresholds and so on - to talk about voldemort's attitude to power, magic, and the body.

he drains the blood of unicorns; he uses up the life-force of the people and animals he possesses; he grows stronger by consuming ginny's secrets; he is restored to his body by taking from his father, wormtail, and harry; he takes the money dumbledore offers without feeling the need to thank him or regard it as a gift; he offers up gifts to people he wants to use for his own gain; he "doesn't march up to people's houses and bang on their front doors" [OotP 6]; he hoards and conceals precious things; his soul is kept safe by being encased by the horcruxes; his locket is guarded by something which has to be drunk, which destroys anyone who assumes they can simply take it without his permission; he "would be glad to see anything miss hepzibah shows me" [HBP 20] and then seizes her secrets and uses them to bring about her doom; his descent from slytherin is proven by his control of the threshold of the chamber of secrets; he places himself and his talents at dumbledore's disposal, "i am yours to command" [HBP 20]; he controls snakes and they do his bidding; he drains the ministry of its secrets; he controls the dementors, who devour joy; augustus rookwood "has lord voldemort's gratitude... i shall need all the information you can give me" [OotP 26]; he is the greatest legilimens - that is to say, he is excellent at pulling other people's secrets into his own mind and using them as he wishes - the world has ever seen; he has seen ron's heart and it is his; his followers live to serve him...

his followers are called death eaters, not death fuckers.

and so it's inarguable, really, that he'd have a legion of service tops under his command...

[flufftober]

🍀🍂 Hello and welcome to Flufftober's (first) Fluff Bingo 🍀🍂

In our poll, nearly 50% of you voted for a handful of bingo cards to fill the other half of the year with more fluff before we jump right back into the excitement that is Flufftober - and of course, we're here to deliver 😊

Find all the important info, more cards, and all the prompts in writing below the cut.

We hope you like this event and our prompts, and now

Happy Creating 🥳

🍀 Pick your card - we offer:

🍂 one card with 5x5 prompts (as seen at the top)

🍂 two cards with 3x3 prompts:

🍂 three themed cards with 1x5 prompts:

🍂 and as a bonus, a 3x3 card with tasks instead of prompts:

🍀 How does this work?

🍂 our standard blog rules apply and you'll find answers to most questions on our FAQ post

🍂 aside from that, you can go wild: fill these cards however you like, as quick or as slow as you like, as often as you like, and use as many of them as you like. We just want you to have fun 😊

🍂 if there are prompts on the bigger cards you don't like, feel free to use the 1x5 cards as alternate prompts and switch them out

🍂 download the cards and tick them off once you've finished a square; make a post for every square or only once you have a bingo or even a blackout - it's all up to you!

🍂 as with all our events, this one will never close, you can always use these cards. If you need a timeframe/deadline because (like me) you'll never finish otherwise, consider these loose goals:

finish until July 1st when we release the new Flufftober list

finish during October, maybe by combining some of these with the Flufftober prompts

finish until the end of the year so you're ready for whatever event we plan for next spring

🍀 What about tumblr reblogs and ao3?

🍂 tumblr reblogs will still happen but not daily as you're used to during Flufftober. It will strongly depend on how many posts there happen to be at a time and how the modmin team will have time. But as long as you mention us and/or use the tag (and follow the rules, obviously), reblogs will happen

🍂 please use the tag #fluffbingo

🍂 feel free to also add the general #flufftober tag

🍂 please make sure to clearly show the fandom, either in the first few tags or noticeably in the post

🍂 contrary to how we do it during Flufftober, we will only use four tags during reblogs this time: #fluffbingo #fluffreblog #[fandom] #[your user name] - that means we will not tag any ships, characters, or which prompt you're covering

🍂 on ao3, our collection for this event is Flufftober Fluff Bingo

Prompts

We're going left to right, top to bottom!

🍂 5x5 card

Fresh Start

To-Do List

Craft Fair

Creature AU

“This was a bad idea.”

Exploring Together

Plushie

Secret Signal

“You’ll love it.”

Late Night

Hidden (...)

“It’s just so much.”

Free Space

Fake Dating

Carnival

“You’re the best!”

Royal AU

Missing the Other

Never ever, ever

Rainbow

Hanahaki

Pep Talk

“I really mean it.”

Hoodie

Movie AU

🍂 3x3 card I

“Where do I start?”

Famous AU

Traveling the World Together

Enjoying a Lazy Day

Task: Write in a tense you usually don’t write/write less than another tense

“You said you had it handled!” - “Yeah, well, I lied.”

Birthday

“Hey, wait, that’s mine.”

Direction

🍂 3x3 card II

“You’re late!”

Hospital AU

Grocery Shopping Together

Going for a Walk

Task: Write from a POV you usually don’t write/write less than another POV

“Could you not do that, please?” - “Spoilsport.”

Sunshine

“I don’t know, you decide.”

Concert

🍂 1x5 card - Smiles

Secret Smile

Relieved Smile

Honest Smile

Devious Smile

Teary Smile

🍂 1x5 card - Hugs

Soothing Hug

Hug in Celebration

Sleepy Hug

Hug from behind

Desperate Hug

🍂 1x5 card - Kisses

Kiss on the Hand

Kiss to distract

Goodbye Kiss

Forhead Kiss

Kiss on the Cheek

🍂 3x3 card - Tasks

Finish your WIP

Sort all your Ideas and/or WIPs

Edit an entire Chapter or Oneshot

Outline a Story

Work on that hard Scene that is giving you so much trouble it is holding you back

Finish the next Chapter of your WIP

Join in a Writing Event (this card doesn’t count 😉 but the others do!)

Finish a Oneshot

Dig out an old Draft and work on it

Have Fun and Go Wild 🥳

[lovemyromance]

I think claiming SJM is a misogynistic author is a lot. She has certain...let's call it "ideals" that shows she reveres the males she writes, the way she describes relationships and men in general in her books is very "primal". It's a lot of cavemen type, super masculine men.

But to call her misogynistic? I think that's a stretch.

Especially when her books are centered around female empowerment. When she's out here renouncing the control people have tried to assert over a woman's body - via Bryce CC3 -

She might have certain takes that I do not agree with, but to try to justify this disgusting argument of Elain not being able to birth Azriel's kids by saying :

"Well SJM's the type of misogynistic author that would do that! I'm not misogynistic, SJM is misogynistic and I'm just picking up on the breadcrumbs!"

Like no. I'm sorry but in this case you are picking up things that are not there. And you're trying to use an author's writing style to justify it. That is wrong.

You may not be misogynistic. But you're letting this ship war cloud your judgement so badly that you are willing to vilify an author just to have a scapegoat to blame for your misogynistic takes.

You're willing to have those misogynistic takes and defend them by saying "the author said it not me!" -> that is still not okay. That is still a misogynistic take.

Stop it. It is really very easy to not use a woman's child birthing abilities to justify your ship. Literally use anything else. This also goes for the people that try to way Azriel can't be with Gwyn because she has SA trauma. Like ... both of these are wrong.

Don't fucking go around saying that. Just don't. It's that easy.

SJM has made her opinion very clear on how she feels about this idea of women being reduced to only whose children they can birth.

You're the ones who refuse to see it. Stop hiding behind "oh SJM is problematic and misogynistic." She might be. But she has also been very clear in this specific case that she does not support your Illyrian anatomy pelvic theories. She does not support this idea that Elain & Azriel cannot be together because Elain can't bear his children.

Move on. Use something else. If you're that secure in your ship, taking one thing off the table shouldn't be able to affect it.

I'm tired of people in this fandom gaslighting Elriels about it too. Like trying to tell us "oh no GA/EL uses that defense anymore stop yapping about it" and then a whole article comes out about it. And people are defending it. Not condemning it. I have not seen ONE GA/EL looking at that article and saying

"You know what? You're right. This is a shitty take. This is not a reason a couple can't be together."

I'm not even saying they need to do that. But at least don't go around and agree with it - for WHATEVER reason.

[lesmisshippingshowdown]

Hello and welcome to the Les Mis Shipping Showdown!

That's right, we're bringing ship brackets to the Les Mis fandom! The Shipping Showdown is an all new, 5 round contest intended to answer some of the internet's greatest questions, such as "is E/R's dominance really as overwhelming as AO3 statistics would have you believe?", "what is the fandom's all time favourite Les Amis pair the spares combo?", and "what would happen if we tried to Jurassic Park the ship wars of 2013 back into existence 12 years later?". Ignore that last one, maybe.

ROUND ONE IS NOW LIVE! Polls will expire in the evening (GMT/UTC) of March 6th 2025, with the next round of week-long polls following shortly thereafter.

Special rounds between particularly iconic matchups may occur at a later date if they do not get a chance to face off in the bracket proper.

Finally, if you're a fanartist or editor and spot your OTP/OT3 in the bracket, ESPECIALLY if it's a rarer pair, please feel free to submit pieces of your art to this blog to be used -with credit - in the relevant polls!! (no AI generated art though, please)

CURRENT BRACKET BELOW:

We the mod team look forward to seeing you all pokémon going to the polls later today! <3

Please see below the cut for FAQ, rules, and mod details:

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q: Who is responsible for all this? Great question! The Les Mis Shipping Showdown is the brainchild of @lonelyroommp3, with invaluable assistance including graphic design, bracket seeding, and wildcard suggestions from @glindalesbian. We are both veterans of the Les Mis fandom, and although it's not been either of our main fandoms for a while we're both still filled with love and nostalgia for both the work itself and the memories the fandom and its myriad shipping messes evoke<3

Q: Woah, wait! How did you decide upon these specific ships? 29 of the ships are - as far as it's possible to accurately sort these things on AO3 - the 29 most popular romantic relationship tags in the Les Misérables (All Media Types) fandom category. This sorting method isn't foolproof, and if we've missed something major we can only apologise! If you bring to light a really notable ship that we've missed, it may get included as part of a special round at a later date if demand is sufficient.

In addition, between the two mods we have chosen three wildcard entries based on such scientifically rigorous selection criteria as "one of us personally shipped this back in the day", "we remember this being really popular but the AO3 stats don't seem to reflect that", and, in one case, "we thought it would be really funny." It is up to you, dear reader, to try and figure out which ship fits in each category.

For the sake of transparency, a couple of ships have been excluded because they have significant overlap with another, more popular ship. For example, both Joly/Bossuet and Joly/Bossuet/Musichetta have AO3 works in the hundreds, but including them both felt a little redundant, so we made the executive decision to just include the more popular combination of the above characters.

Q: Are platonic/familial/queerplatonic relationship tags included? What if I like a combination of characters in a given match up, but only platonically? All my love to the non romantic relationship dynamics in Les Mis - after all, "to love another person is to see the face of God" is a lyric that intentionally does not specify a type of love! However, to keep things streamlined, this poll is specifically about romantic/sexual ships. Whenever you see a match up, assume you are being asked which combination of characters you personally would prefer to see depicted in a romantic relationship and/or sucking and fucking.

Q: Can I submit propaganda? Where should I do this? Yes! You are welcome to add propaganda in the reblogs of any given poll, or send asks or submissions to this blog. We will try to reshare propaganda as long as it follows other rules, but this is not a promise because we're busy people! We also ask that you do NOT send propaganda directly to the mods' personal blogs.

Q: Can I share this blog/contest/specific polls outside of Tumblr? If you're sharing on a small scale with a discord server, individual friends without Tumblr accounts, etc, please go ahead! We would, however, politely request that if you are lucky enough to have contacts who are, or have been, involved with professional productions of Les Misérables in any capacity that you do NOT share this competition with them directly or go shouting about it in places they are likely to see it, no matter how funny you think it may be to try and get some organic propaganda off the US Tour's 2nd cover Grantaire or whoever. Some of us are fujos in the sheets and actual theatre professionals in the streets, and we'd prefer to keep those two streams of our lives as separate as possible. Please respect this!

Q: You've used my fanart in a post and I don't want it in there/it's been credited incorrectly. If this happens to you, please let us know via asks ASAP with a link or clear reference to the offending post & artwork, so we can either remove your art or amend the credit accordingly!

FURTHER RULES

We were both around in this fandom in 2013 when people were in the actual trenches about certain ships, and we know this can be a testy subject. We also think a bit of healthy competition and ship warring is fun from time to time, and the Les Mis Shipping Showdown is not intended to be a totally sanitised arena where we take everything super duper seriously and everybody has to be really really niceys 100% of the time. However, we do ask that good taste and interpersonal respect is considered:

You're free to fight about ships until the cows come home, but please refrain from personal attacks on other users in any arena related to this tournament.

Any hate speech in propaganda, notes of official tournament posts, asks/submissions, or any posts about the tournament brought to the mods' attention will NOT be tolerated and will result in an instant block (+ the offending account being reported if deemed necessary).

We've both seen shipping tournaments play out in other fandoms and know that it's absolutely impossible to avoid botting & vote rigging. However, any cases of the above that are deemed excessive, malicious, or generally against the spirit of the tournament may result in a match up being aborted, repeated, or, in extreme cases, a ship being permanently excluded from the tournament. Just be normal pleaseeeeeee

[jxnisnotfunny]

i wanna corroborate with @egg-emperor's tags rq

ofc not that i've seen this cus i'm not on twitter anymore, but still

lemme be clear: as much as julian probably doesn't like hearing it (believe me, i like julian, so i don't mean this in a personal way), mike pollock is NOT a morally upstanding person. he's shown his true colors many many times over the past couple years alone, perhaps even longer ago than that, and it's 100% understandable why fewer and fewer people like him anymore. HOWEVER... despite his continued reprising of the role of dr. eggman, pollock should NOT be made synonymous with dr. eggman. other people have voiced him in the past, and other people can (and at this rate, probably, hopefully will) voice him in the future. pollock is NOT eggman just because he's voiced him for years. there's no need for anyone to start discourse with julian just because he's diehard horny for eggman and everything about him.

besides, truthfully, as much as i don't respect him anymore, it's not a detraction of pollock's talent. he's still good at what he does no matter what he does or how we feel about him, and there's not much anyone can do about that. same goes for my opinion of sean chiplock, who voices kinger in the amazing digital circus. from the allegations against him... yea no i don't like him. but his performance in episode 3 was, honestly, phenomenal. i loved it. and that's fine!

i don't skimp details: it's absolutely younger, more inexperienced, stubborn people who are trying to define "social justice" on twitter, but all it ends up being is policing without a goal, because they don't understand what to direct hate at and what not to. they're wasting their time and energy, yet are also too lazy to do any proper research on the topics that deserve attention.

-------------------------

not fandom-related, but quick ramble

i say this especially given the rightful disdain against usage of generative ai, in part or in full, in art (i.e., art theft, replacing human artists, and heavy energy usage). i've seen COUNTLESS times - not even just on twitter but on bluesky as well, and heaven knows i love bluesky, but some people there are still culpable - where people have jumped the gun at the mere mention of... not even just gen-ai, but ai as a whole. immediately sounding the alarms, fearmongering left, right and center, calling for protests and boycotts... without looking at any of the details.

some ai CAN be used as tools to help artists make their jobs easier. it's just gen-ai that's really a big issue, since some average people are using it to replace learning to draw, and ESPECIALLY since big corporations are starting to get their slimy hands on it instead of giving jobs to real people qualified for acting, editing, or motion graphics, just to save money they don't need to save. but some people refuse to understand that or look into it, and thus we're stuck having to hear buffoons fume about things that don't matter.

i still remember very vividly when youtube rolled out an option to allow videos you upload to be used for gen-ai, but they clarified in the linked support article that it was disabled by default because it's against youtube TOS to enable it by default. however, some people just. didn't read it. outright. and that day i saw someone hollering at bluesky to take action even tho there was no action to be taken. only reason i knew this post existed is cus one of my friends reposted it, having also not also read the support article, and i immediately frowned in real life.

I really feel like people forget that fandom is a fun hobby and not some sort of like, activist group.

Like, one of my hobbies is wildlife photography. If I follow a bunch of wildlife photography accounts and it's the only thing I see on my dash, am I in an echo chamber? No, I'm just engaging with my hobby.

It's really not that deep lmao is that person okay

Honestly the growing trend of forcing accountability, activism, virtue signalling and moral hunting in every single space is exhausting and crippling and it will eventually succeed in a massive cull of fandom spaces and creators. It already has, even, we've seen 'purges' of creators and content in certain fandoms and from a majority of websites and in revised policies.

That said, per your example, your internet space is allowed to be curated any way that you want it to. This blog, for example, is vastly different to my other account, where you will not find even a speck of political content. Not even a whiff of discourse. Its all cat pictures and the occasional shameless thirst over a man's thighs and probably an unhealthy amount of astronomy. They are both my spaces, they have just simply been curated very, very differently, and with two different intents.

"Isolated" (by content) spaces are not bad. Even in regards to some "negative" aspects. Some people are very, very set in their ways, and cannot or will not change. In such cases, its simply best to allow them to box themselves into their hate and not have a wider outreach.

[epickiya722]

What bothers me about Korra hate is that she doesn't get the same grace that other Avatars (or other characters in general) have from the fandom. I mean, it's obvious as to why.

Some will act as if Korra couldn't grow from her mistakes or even have. Or even act like the other Avatars didn't make mistakes, even while grown adults.

Don't even get me started on comparing the traumas. That's just not cool to do that. Korra may not have had her people wiped out, but the pain she faced (like every season it felt like) is no less than the pain Aang faced.

They both went through it, at young ages even.

Whether you see it or not, each Avatar had to go through the aftermath of the other previous Avatar's actions. Aang is my boy and all, but let's not act like his time as Avatar didn't have some effect on Korra.

That's how a cycle works.

People were upset about the character assassinations of the original characters from ATLA (and I get it), but then it's like the anger was directed at Korra as if her existence was the problem.

No... no, she is a character like everyone else.

"Korra was this, Korra was that".

She's not allowed to have flaws? Oh, I see why. Mhm. I forgot that female characters, let alone brown skinned ones aren't allowed to.

She out here facing end of the world threats, constantly getting captured and beat up and she says anything cocky that's played for laughs even and some of you act like she is the worst character there is.

Frankly, from the summary that we got for Seven Havens, I can see why some people are immediately on the fence about it.

Because it's like is Korra going to get a break ever? What happened to her (given there's a new Avatar, we know she died)? What about the other characters? And so on.

There's also the fact that when it comes to sequels... it's a hit or miss. Especially when characters from the previous entry are involved.

Personally, Seven Havens isn't getting my attention that much because I just don't care for apocalyptic settings, they were never really my thing. But it still has me intrigued because it is Avatar.

I am curious as the direction this sequel is going to go, and I'll give it a chance. I did with Legend of Korra and despite flaws, that show still did enough for me to put it on the list of shows I watched and enjoyed. It's not the worst show and I don't think it's fair that it's hated more than it should be, even long after it ended.

Be honest, you hate Korra not for her actions or even her behavior, do you? Let her have been male or/and of a lighter skin tone, she would have a lot more of the fandom with a book of reasons why she should given of a chance to be understood.

[wanderinsect]

So! I think one of the things I didn't delve into in my earlier post about Ros's hesitance to communicate with LOSA is that Ros vastly prefers emotionally reciprocal relationships. She likes to be listened to, and she ALSO likes to be able to listen to people, and support them in return (see: Aimsey and Pangi). Even though the other LOSA members see supporting her emotionally as the least they can do after she literally built the kingdom, Ros, as a very emotion-oriented person, can only see herself dumping all her problems on them every time.

I think also, from a fandom perspective, there is a strange amount of blame placed on Ros for not reaching out, when like. Sneeg could also do that?? Rod spends the most time with people who also try to spend time with her, because she doesn't feel like she's bothering people when it goes both ways! Ros and Sneeg's respective communication issues are interacting badly with this instance, but there ARE issues on both parts, not just Ros 😭

There's a strange imbalance in how the Kingdom members are perceived, where essentially every member except for Ros is just assumed to be able to handle their problems on their own. Like, I'm not a Sneeg watcher, so I could be mistaken, but has Sneeg told anyone about his haunting? Because that seems like an issue that Ros would love to hear about and help with!

The other kingdom members generally tackle their problems and continue forward, but Ros needs extra emotional support (she is still one of the most capable members!!) and no one in the Kingdom is able to match her vulnerability, which is why she ends up spilling state secrets to someone like Pangi, who shares her emotional volatility and came to her for emotional support beforehand.

Many of her problems are interpersonal, which makes them more complicated to deal with and they last longer. She can't just kill something and be done with it. And (there could also be a gendered aspect to this, which I find fascinating) because she is the only Kingdom member struggling in this way, she feels the need to minimize it and not "overreact" and not burden the other members with her feelings.

[iboughtyomamaflowers]

Really just here to yap about the last video, because oh god that was cool. Not sure if we had ever gotten them to talk about periods (I remember someone suggesting sanitary pad? And tom being like "pretty sure no one here wants to hear that"? Maybe im wrong), but that was good, really good (why am i referring another fandom, please just kill me)

Letters are always chaotic but I feel like Tom (who doesn't break character a lot in general) was laughing so much and asking questions mid-letter and that was really fun!!

Also, a trilogy?!!! Amazing work. The subtitles were amazing, as always. I really appreciate their team putting effort in that, it's a detail, but it shows that they care and gives them an opportunity to make funny comments.

I think this is all for now, I should really get back to study, but you really can't get a notification with a tittle like that and simply leave it for later

Xoxo

[scopophobia-polaris]

What are you just jealous because Jojo is more successful than you?

Cute, bad time to start this when I'm medicated, I'm not actually, far from it

I'm wary of them

Look, maybe I've been around long enough but when people say all links go with their special "lady friends" and don't flash out the Lady friends in general I 🤨

Oh and the Other kin drawing them in a VERY specific way

Being very weird about MLM relationships

And the DID thing where yall gave them WAY too much credit for the quotations

We cant forget how they drew Shad of course.

And the fact that so many people think that LU is a queer comic when it just ain't in the slightest, and has a very large side of the fandom that is highly conservative that jojo never spoke out against on tumblr from MY understanding, idk maybe if i had conservatives giving me money and were all up in my shit being weird as hell and making all the younger queer folk in my fandom uncomfy i would A. Not take their fucking money and B. Make a public, not server post condeming them when i get a lot of support from queer fans and younger more vunrable people AND MOST OF ALL when you're making about $1000 USD on EACH COMIC POST and a lot of that money comes from your queer fanbase, idk idk 🤷‍♂️

But I dont know, i guess I dont get the hype🤷‍♂️

I don't hate that comic, there is a lot of effort put into this and people should get the bag when the put in that much effort, but.....

In the end, It all just makes me Kinda wary of being around them and the LU fandom

Also, this aint a call out, all this stuff is still up on her socials and this is why I'm uncomfy

Never ask me about Jojo again unless it's a bizarre adventure

[tubbytarchia]

Do you have any thoughts on Lizzies’ secret life character?

Sad. Tragic in more ways than one. Imagine a deep frown on my face

Although I lovee Lizzie's character to death, I don't think I'm so good at verbalizing my thoughts in depth about her, but I am trying to write a general opinion piece on her. As far as Secret Life goes, I really like how antsy she is to do things that are likely to harm her even when not required to. Eg her immediately going for Cherry trees in spite of them being in a dangerous spot, her trying to save the camel from Mumbo, her readily jumping into the End Portal... Although in that last instance she did seem to just not think about it and be under the impression that she could instantly snipe the dragon kill lol. It's a bit sad even before the party that she's alone since she bounces off everyone so well, but I'll always believe in her. She at one point says "I might be better alone" which is referring to Mumbo regarding a task, but even so it felt like appropriate though sad foreshadowing

I don't headcanon seablings outside of ESMP1 simply because I don't see a portrayal of such a dynamic outside of it, but Jimmy and Lizzie do have multiple cute interactions in SL, like them shaking their asses at each other to communicate lol, it's a shame that the one notable interaction they have is Jimmy accidentally killing her :(. I didn't remember them having so many interactions even if they were brief, I need to rewatch more of Lizzie's Life POVs because the ass shaking is something siblings would do, I have to admit

I also need to point out that I love Lizzie's and Pearl's dynamic as few interactions as they have. The way she's drawn to the same qualities in Pearl that she's drawn to in Joel and with no hesitation rewards her as promised when Pearl gets her a bone, even whilst Joel is trying to appeal to her. And Pearl remembering her slumber party the next session without being reminded was probably the nicest anyone was to her about having missed it

But of course, the sad lonely slumber party... It does not get any easier to watch (or that episode in general. Her idea of getting everyone into the end to pass the night was a genius idea but alas) but god bless Joel. God bless. The one real one. The one constant. And him remaining vengeful on Lizzie's behalf means so much to me. Of course Lizzie's failure of a party and failure to seek much revenge for it resulting in her early death is the tragedy of it all. No less tragic than anyone else dying first but sad nonetheless. And it continues the trend of Lizzie permadying due to a third party which is arguably the most tragic part of her character that I think would make for banger analysis

It's even more tragic to me though that her character gets made out to be all about the SL death while I see little discussion about her actual character outside of that. And also people placing importance on her death because of Jimmy. I absolutely understand it was always going to be at least a little about Jimmy regardless of who would have died first, but the amount of talk I see that makes her character all about her failure and death, and then that death all about Jimmy, makes me sad because I think there's a lot to say about her. So I tend to be adverse to any kind of canary labelling and "She took the bullet for Jimmy/her brother" kind of sentiments, although I do think that the SL finale is still significant and I understand why it had the impact it did on the fandom. Just not personally a fan of a lot of the responses to it

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Do you think that we are getting book 8 that will focus on Grim since we almost are on the end of book 7? And how do you feel if that what happened and we get book 8 that focus on Grim and Yuu like why are they here all of that? Do you want to see a specific thing that wasn't mentioned in the main story?

Last question how do you feel about twst ending? Would you stay in the fandom or find another interest? I'm not ready for that like if twst ended I will move to twst fanfics 🥲

But to be honest with how they are using the 3D animation as inspiration too now for the new events I have hope that even if the main story ended we will still have plenty of new events coming plus we have the anime coming too and manga chapters still going. I don't want this fandom to die as soon as main story end.

Honestly I don't mind if the game kept going forever 😂 not necessarily the main story but with events and talk about the world.

Imagine something like twst: The New NRC Generation like they did with many animes XD

Okay I talked so much sorry for the rambling.

As I have stated in the FAQ section of my pinned post (I kindly ask that people check that first before sending asks because I have been asked some variant of “what do you think about a potential book 8”/���how do you want book 7 to end” dozens of times; I don’t answer them because the answer is already out there but overlooked, but I feel bad for ignoring so many people 😅):

"I want to actually see Yuu going home and the current students moving on to the next year of schooling. We could focus on how the guys have grown and are growing, how these more mature versions of the characters interact with the incoming freshmen/first years, or the long-term consequences of their OBs (particularly Malleus's, which probably caused an international crisis). It would also be cool to learn more about RSA students after book 7, but I don’t want them to rehash the OB formula."

"As for a potential book 8, I don’t know if there’s enough evidence for it? Book 7 is cramming a lot in right now so it’s possible that all the loose ends will be tied up there. Book 8 also implies a strong focus on Ramhackle, which… I know we love Yuusonas and all, but the game cannot canonically fill in their backstory a ton or it will ruin player self-inserting/projection. That means we’d have to rely on Grim and Grim alone to be the emotional crux that somehow transcends even Malleus’s chapter. I think that’d be hard to pull off, especially since we'd be expecting book 8 to be even LONGER than the 290+ book 7 is. If there's a book 8 at all, it might have to be closer to prologue length...? Because even if they push the Mickey stuff and revealing Crowley's motives to a theoretical book 8, I can't imagine this would take up more parts than book 7 already has 💦"

Secondly, I don’t think “Twst ending” is… the best phrasing? It’s not like the game is going to shut down as soon as book 7 finishes. Live service games close when they’re no longer financially viable, not because they finished a main story arc. Several of these kinds of games continue the main story into a new arc—and while we don’t have any official confirmation of this for Twst, it would be just silly for a money and merch machine to be shut down for an arbitrary reason. If it's not broken, then don't axe it. I would be genuinely shocked if Twst just left the main story untouched after book 7, though it may take some time before new main story stuff comes out, as the writers would have to... you know, write. Running the servers based on events alone, especially when we are not guaranteed new story events every month, doesn't sound sustainable in the long term. There's still going to be new Twst stuff coming out for a long time between the manga, anime, and light novels too. That's at least a good couple of years.

dyugaoydaswqyb Anyway, I'll be staying in the fandom even once book 7 finished; it's very near and dear to my heart ^^ Like I said, I think Twst will probably continue its service for a while. And it's not like you can only have one interest at a time, right??

[chemyaart]

Rant about the cookie run kingdom fandom

Okay, so I know I'm gonna get hated for this, but I don't care. Ignore if you're sensitive.

First, I just want to clarify that it's for every fandom, of course, bad apples exist everywhere. But at this point, I can't believe what I'm seeing. The more a media is cute, kid-friendly, the more the fandom is crazy (and not in a good way)

So, I want to adress the things that bother me a lot.

Firstly, I think the Beast Yeast update was both a good thing and a bad thing to happen. Let me explain. Of course, the enemies into lovers trope has always existed and it's the most popular trope, but I think that update actually flipped upside down the fandom. Toxic ships has always existed (like affocara, redpastry, etc..) but they weren't that common I think?

But after that update, it never became the same thing again. It honestly makes me uncomfortable how shippers say "hAhA ToXiC yAoI" for everything, especially Shadowvanilla. It makes me cringe (I like sometimes when it's funny cringy, but not uncomfortable cringe you know?)

I hate how CRK content mainly ships (like 90% of the time) it's sexual.

Of course, I guess sex jokes/suggestive jokes can exist, but it comes to a point where it's like everywhere. These shippers only think about these 24/7.

One thing that adds with the fandom, is how people love to woobify the characters. The misrepresent/misinterpret the character for something they're not. Headcanons are fine, but when I see Shadowvanilla, and purecacao fans... I'm really concerned. They woobify the characters into "b-b-b-but he's g-g-g-ood!" or "I'm j-just a-a innocent uwu gay boi" I understand if you're a kid/teen, but when I see adults doing that, I'm like actually scared.

Every character is complex, and it doesn't have to be romantic. I actually like the Shadowvanilla ship, but not to this extent. And I don't like them romantically. But I would love to see them grow.

Plus, not just woobifying the characters, but also just changing them entirely. Like their personalities, and just only keep one trait. For example, Pure Vanilla Cookie. He's the most popular cookie with Shadow Milk, and all I see is just him being all innocent and nice. Of course he is friendly and generous, but (especially purecacao shippers) think he's weak or something. But when you see him defeating Dark Enchantress ALONE in the video, he isn't WEAK at all.

Or Dark Cacao, all they make him is "manly man who is strong and protects his boi" or "neglectful dad bad dad". When it's much more complex than that. I'm shocked when their account is JUST about this ship. Like I like Purelily and Cacaolily, but I don't post to this extent about them. And even if I wish for Cacaolily to be real, I'm not delusional enough to repeat that they're canon like some shadowvanilla and purecacao fans do. Of course, you can say that they're joking, but there are actually people that seriously do this ☠️ (do what you want, but I just can't belive it myself)

Plus, the amount of times where these shippers also looked at the tiniest details of an interaction, and thought, "it's canon" it's actually crazy. Like I've seen a post about how Dark Cacao's face in the fight between the ancients and Dark Enchantress Cookie, meant that he loved Pure vanilla cookie in a romantic way ☠️

Obviously characters can care about eachother without liking them romantically. Plus, not only Dark cacao was saddened, but also Hollyberry and Golden Cheese. But you don't include that for your ship.

You guys can understand that I really hate Purecacao, right? Well, unlike Shadowvanilla fans, they don't attack me personally, and they're actually cool. The experiences I had with Purecacao shippers made me hate this ship.

Also, stop hating characters for no reason, because of misunderstanding or something. Whether it's Golden Cheese Cookie, where there are people who think she's selfish and as bad as the beasts, Lord Oyster, or anyone tbh. A lot of characters are hated for no reason, either from their design, or what they did. What I mean is, okay, hate a character, but PLEASE have a at least a reason why you hate the character, and not just because it blocks your ship 😭

It's actually crazy Kingdom fans hated Revel Cookie and Okchun Cookie just for their "simple" design? A lot of CRK fans are so narrow minded it's sad. I really hope your minds opens up more, especially to other ships. For example, rare pairs are cool, and I don't see the problem with it except if they're problematic like age gap, pdf things yk?

I hate Purecacao, Affocacao, but I just block their tag. They just love drawing them kissing and making out. As much as I hate them, I won't threaten them or sending death threats over it, you know? I'm really sorry if I was too rude, my emotions get over me, I really hope it didn't hurt you.

At the end of the day, do what you want. Just don't interact with me. And please improve yourself, a lot of you guys need therapy, myself included. I needed to rant.

[aliusfrater]

#seen this quite a bit. mainly with 'gothic horror' wincest-centric blogs. or sam&dean fans #sometimes #and i understand this because yeah Kripke Era is a very self-contained consistent story #and i don't think they're wrong for ending the show there. they came and watched the show got what they wanted from kripke era and continue #with their lives. i wish that was me sometimes i literally lost sleep over the slim but not zero possibility of supernatural reboot #people will bring up the quality dip and poor writing of late seasons which fair #and the tonal/genre change as it shifted away from gothic horror #but idk that argument always fell a little flat imo #supernatural always had shifts in genre like compare s1's paranormal mystery to s5 #and i just generally feel people's ideas on what constitutes as a gothic horror is reductive and illusionary #people complain about the meta aspects as the show goes on but it started in s4-5. and s5 itself felt a little different from s4 <- tags by @evie-doesnt-write

as a someone who's personally a fan of supernatural's 'gothic horror themes' and despite not really enjoying shipping culture around here in general does find themself prefering wincest/weirdcest interpretations that build upon watsonian specific emulations of these themes over others because i feel that they properly acknowledge the nature of sam and dean's relationship and the way its abusive dynamic works at the core of the show as encapsulated within supernatural emulated (conservative) structures—the family, illusionary dichotomies wrt to hunting, patriarchal, grief, cycles of abuse, etc.—i'm able to personally identify exactly what i may constitute as a theme foundational within the show's 'gothic horror' and apply it to my interpretations of canon. like there's 'family is hell' shared amoung stuff like allegorical child sexual abuse, the intentional boundary crossing nature of familial and/or sexual relationships in ways that portray incest, atmospheres of abuse, familial liminality, the inherent rot of the nuclear, the Monster and/or Other and what it represents, all that within supernatural as originally conservative us reactionary media, etc etc

i think the issue you're describing comes from the prioritisation of the aesthetic of these themes over the actual content of them and the subject matters they exist to analyse. and the thing about aesthetics is that, they're largely performative and shallow and often lead to the uncritical adoption of the subjects they're emulating through the show's own conservatisms which results in some kind of illusionary disjunction between, say, supernatural's seasons one to five vs six to fifteen and there's never any real acknowledgement of the watsonian structures/dichotomies and their falsenesses i think these 'gothic horror themes' analyse. i think this is the sandbox where you find stuff like kripke idolisation, insanely purist perspectives on shipping, or the show's own ideas of monstrosity; here there's no genuine acknowledgement of his and the show's conservative values and quite frankly the only reason why i don't think we get more dean-skewed perspectives of the show from this pov is largely because the acknowledgement, at least, of these gothic themes are fundamental to sam's character and most of these audience members tend to prefer sam while those who tend to cling to dean's perspective skew towards building their interpretation of these 'gothic horror themes' around his perspective and get something closer to 'samndean/samdean belong together/fated' without any real acknowledgement of the narrative's watsonian factor's that facilitate their 'belonging together'.

like you said, there's a vast difference between season one and five but there's also not really a difference between season five and seven but i will say though that although these gothic horror themes remain the foundational building blocks for sam and dean's relationship and the show at large, i won't pretend that the show doesn't fundamentally change around them while also changing its perspective of them despite thinking that you can still very well find what you're looking for as the show (through sam and dean) quadruple down on its conservatisms. like comparing seasons nine to five weilds a new perspective of what a person wants vs does not want from the show. the self-confined nature of sticking to seasons one to five becomes understandable to me at this point because it's perfectly possible to analyse what these gothic horror themes are from within these five seasons but i think this can and does exist at the same as acknowledging that sometimes it's just aesthetic. for example: there's a real discussion to be had regarding bobby's house vs the bunker and the decline in motel setttings but this discussion is also susceptible to that same uncritical preference of aesthetic

How do you feel about certain fans who think anything past season 5 of supernatural isn't canon?

personal preference, innit? especially regarding how fundamentally different the show becomes over time; certain audience members will always prefer one thing over another. i will never really understand the kripke or season five conclusion idolisation though and i don't think either are particularly revolutionary (less so season five, which is where i consider the show to have begun to dilute in quality) but i see and understand the appeal of confining oneself to/focusing on specific arcs simply because you enjoy those more. i'm a comic book fan who willingly ignores specific runs simply because i don't like them and think they misrepresent the core of certain characters and the story they exist to tell to a degree where i don't recognise the character being written anymore. so i get it lmfao it's just not my cup of tea for supernatural

[mask-duo]

I'm doing research on women and fandom for one of my journalism portfolio assignments and a lot of the readings I've been doing talk about the way celebrities who have a majority female audience, specifically a teen girl audience, and who profit off these girls are always so quick to distance themselves from it. They don't want anything to do with teenage girls their main goal is to surpass this threshold and appeal to a general audience - a male audience. Even when they talk about their audience they'll always mention that there are male fans and generally tend to deride their female fans and it's just like the only celebrity I've ever seen not do that is dream. The only fucking one. Sure he didn't expect to have a majority female/queer audience but he welcomed that shit with Open Arms. He's not blameless bc ofc he's defended himself saying he also has male fans but I've never ever seen another celebrity sit and take the sides of the female fangirl ever. And if they have a larger audience (like dream does) the fangirls are not the people to be catered to, not the people to be appreciated, but regardless I've seen dream embrace us and our fandom ways with so much love and affection it's making me a bit emotional

[not-sure-what-im-feeling]

You know I might apologize for this kinda vent post if I felt any shred of remorse for it. But I will let y’all off with a warning before y’all continue. I’m probably gonna swear, and this is an angry post about fandom spaces in general.

Okay.

I am sick and fucking tired of how terribly writers get treated in fandom spaces. My mutuals? Fantastic, wonderful, love them to death, they’re perfect. But as a whole it is clear how many people in fandom spaces do not actually fucking care about authors.

Y’all (royal y’all, not anyone in particular) will be supposedly staunchly anti generative AI and then turn around and use character ai or whatever the fuck. Fuck fact: THAT STEALS FROM WRITERS TOO YOU DIPSHITS. That is still ai. If you are against ai in fandom spaces and in general then you should be against ai roleplays.

Also, it is so clear how many people do not care about ai when you see people complaining about “no second kudos” or something. Would you like a second kudos button? Here you go!!

Aw, are authors not posting as much anymore even though they’re still in the fandom? Well, have you told them how much you care about what they do? No? Well why the fuck do you think they aren’t going to want to post anymore?!

Just— Authors are not treated with any great respect by fandom overall, and I’m fucking tired of it. There’s a reason I haven’t posted any fanfiction for a while now, you know?