#this includes lor'themar

[eighthdoctor]

What about Lor'themar? He still talks to her and isn't incompetent. They're practically best friends by Horde standards.

Ehhhhh sort of. I'll pull the relevant Lor'themar quotes:

Sylvanas could command from the rear, but that’s what Lor’themar is for. She’s far too useful in the front lines to seclude herself, and she…trusts…Lor’themar. Mostly. Enough. He can handle command.

“Without you to lead? Who did you leave in command, Lor'themar?” “Who is a competent, if not inspired, general.”

Proudmoore snorts. “Would she listen to Lor’themar if he told her to fall back?” Under her eyes, the Stormwind infantry moves forward and the orcs charge without waiting for orders. To the rear of the Horde a figure just identifiable as Lor’themar begins gesticulating angrily. Geya’rah listens to Sylvanas because she values her own life. Lor’themar doesn’t inspire that sort of fear, and Geya’rah, like so many orcs, suffers from an excess of honor and a remarkable lack of sense. Grudgingly, Sylvanas says, “She would not.”

Will Baine and Lor’themar care enough about the Forsaken to support their position? She can’t say.

So what can we take from this?

Sylvanas is comfortable leaving Lor'themar in command of the Horde army, even though there's no real sin'dorei presence and so he's technically outside his bailiwick. She has faith (borne out in Interlude 1) that he won't get too creative or reckless and will do the best he can, but she also doesn't believe he can keep Geya'rah in line.

Overall: Pretty good confidence in Lor'themar as a military leader.

Unfortunately: Approximately zero confidence in Lor'themar's willingness to go out of his way to help the Forsaken.

In other words, Sylvanas trusts Lor'themar to help her when it's in his own best interest. She does NOT trust him to do anything even moderately inconvenient that would benefit her, which is fair because he wouldn't.

Trust is easy when you're trusting someone to do something that benefits them. It's much, much harder when you're hoping they'll put themselves at risk to help you.

[regentlord]

lor'themar held great respect for thrall bc he was the warchief that let the blood elves in the horde but then he chose garrosh as his successor and peaced out so. that didn't do wonders for how lor feels about thrall tbh. sylvanas is Complicated. gallywix he wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole. baine is okay. vol'jin is the only one he'd count as a friend, probably. out of the new ones, he's ok with all of them but thalyssra is definitely the one closer to him.

[silvermoonharry]

I know I’ve already done this, but it’s been a while and a lot has happened since. So let's do it again, with passion this time!

Pick your favorite leader! If you want to include why you love them: such as their policies, behavior, or just because they're hot! Please discuss it in tags or comments. This community has been pretty chill, so I trust us all to have a good discussion and I'd love to see everyone's reasons!

[omgkalyppso]

15 Lines of Dialogue

Rules: Share 15 or fewer lines of dialogue from an OC, ideally lines that capture their character/personality/vibe. Bonus points for just using the dialogue without other details about the scene, but you’re free to include those as well.

I was tagged by @dustdeepsea which is very funny because I also tagged them. We are like passing ships in the night, you and I. fgdhfdg

I already did this for Étoile and Faedolyn here. So this time I will do Borgakh. You can press J on desktop to skip this post if it's either too long or gruesome. Some vague gore / body horror / horror descriptions in her dialogue.

I'll also tag @cherrypikkins (yes again. you have all those Kitt supports), @peachiehambo, @bladesandstars, @bhaalbaaby and YOU.

Borgakh

"I did, but perhaps I spoke out of turn. I learned a little from our warband, but… I slowly stopped my questions. Do you honor your dead another way? Was I rude in asking?" - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 1: Arrival

"Well, I have lived here five months now…" she chuckled, "so what is that? Thirteen elf years? Living among them in Halfhill was what synched it for me. I couldn't order pumpkin seeds if I couldn't speak to my local grocer." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 1: Arrival

"For as long as you need. I will hold him," Borgakh promised with a darkness in her voice. - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 2: Broken Chains

"Are you sure? Most ranking members of the Horde want to know: Where were you … during the crossing of the Dark Portal?" He pursed his lips and opened his mouth to speak, but Borgakh plowed forward, her tone more sincere and apologetic. "I was ten when I came to Azeroth. I am entering my fortieth year." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 2: Broken Chains

She raised an eyebrow as she answered, "You make it sound as if I've never had anyone to guide me. Of course I've had mentors: in language, in cooking, in how to hold a bow or dismantle a gun. I am not undisciplined." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 2: Broken Chains

She laughed in response, a heady growl; maybe a little more orcish than he was expecting. Lor'thermar's hands went to his sides, as if to reach for a weapon. Borgakh laughed a little more freely before saluting him. "Get fucked, Regent Lord." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 2: Broken Chains

As soon as her arm came free, she twisted away from him and started untying her remaining restrictions. "I … I also thought to open my wounds." She sat up and turned to look at Lor'themar, eye to eye. "Not to injure myself," she explained, fisting her hands in the sheets on her knees. "I've simply … heard stories of spells and curses being etched into the flesh of my people and then sewn back down so that we are ignorant of their extent and meaning." She looked away again, ashamed. Lor'themar could see the soft twinkling of her eyes through her dark lashes. "I see now that this … was likely paranoia." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 3: Injured

"Then I will die there," she agreed, meeting his eye. "I know this. Just as you must have, once. Your soldiers do." She sighed, "But perhaps your people have the privilege of time, and can expect that if they simply crush that threshold, the remainder of their days can be spent in the walls of Silvermoon or somewhere else far away. Every home I've ever had has been a battlefield. If anyone will ever miss me, it will be in the context of war." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 4: At The Mercy of Responsibility

She reached down between his knees to pluck the brown bottle from his hands, and leaned away to look him in the eye, answering more seriously, "But I know: that you would be ridiculed, and I will have done the opposite of proving my worth here, if we are discovered." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 6: Questions Of Worth

She lapped at his ear and he twitched all over as she whispered, "I'm going to put my mouth on you. If you move too much, you may bleed. That might be pleasurable to you in some places … and certainly not in others." She kissed his ear more seriously, nipping at his ear lobe with the teeth between her tusks as she gave him one last word of warning, "Behave." - On The Isle Of Thunder, Chapter 6: Questions Of Worth

"An orc is an orc is an orc Khadgar; or is Garona not proof enough of that for you?" - In Dalaran

"No, no. Khadgar, tell your mate that if she should ever find herself taken by the Horde, or in another scenario where it might help, that she can ask for me. I'll pay her ransom. I'll fight in her name. Whatever it may be." Borgakh's eyes sort of crossed then as she finished her statement in a whisper, "And … I'll go on hoping never to hear from her." - In Dalaran

“This orc can hold her tongue,” Borgakh answered in chipped elvish, and Ga’el laughed. - Meet Me At The Border, Chapter 2: Reliable, In All Things

"I met a couple from Northern Morning today who didn’t speak a word of elvish. We had a whole conversation in common sign language! I was worried I might have forgotten too much, falling out of practice. It was nice. I hope however you’re talking to people lately that it’s going well!" - This post

“Are the elves under attack?” <- Context for this one. In one of the dnd games Borgakh was a part of, her asking this question and proposing that the elven kingdom was as afraid of something happening with a necromancer raising long dead people from when a continent split and that they weren't simply acting to expand their kingdom at a poorly timed moment when the kingdom we were in was being tormented by this necromancer, prevented a war and apparently changed the trajectory of the campaign (or would have, if it hadn't ended three sessions or so after this).

[farseertsukina]

The reason for the blood elves joining the horde was always very very weak.

One man dicked them over (Garithos, and he was an asshole 100% he was bad and he got his comeuppance) and they got mad the human kingdom closest to them (that got annihilated, it was the one thing between the scourge and quel'thalas and it was gone) didn't come to aid them. Gilneas had already shut down and Altherac wasn't really a kingdom just a bunch of bandits hanging out. Who was going to help them? It's unfortunate a shitty human found them and led to the events of Kael'thas betraying his people and the blood elves joining the horde. Their isolationism and insular nature cost them everything, that's the lesson you're supposed to take from that. Being a hyper-nationalist is bad because cooperation is good and gets things done. Maybe if they had helped Lordaeron early on it wouldn't have been as bad? Who knows? That is its own can of worms.

Waaaaay prior to that the human nation of Strom came to the aid of Quel'thalas when asked to fight the amani trolls.

An important note is the Amani didn't join the horde because Quel'Thalas pushed them out of their lands and decimated the population. Interesting.

During the second war, the alliance asked for help this time! However, they were met with reluctance and weren't sent many troops because "who cares about this invading force of aliens and the trolls we genocided".

BUT!

A contingency of elves including Alleria disobeyed their king because they recognized the oncoming threat. Humans defended and gave their lives for Quel'thalas and to ignore that is stupid. Isolationism isn't supposed to be seen as the good or right thing to do because they get burned for it, they left the alliance and were at the full mercy of the scourge. Moving on, yes, they did try to rejoin the alliance because the horde was a disaster under garrosh but the events of Theramore fucked that all up. High Ranking Sunreavers aided in making and transporting the mana bomb that destroyed Theramore. (which, fun fact was originally going to destroy Teldrassil.)

Jaina did not canonically kill the sunreavers. In game it was a bug, she had her aoe spells active in her code and went wild. You can pretend that wasn't the case all you want but it absolutely was. Now the Silver Covenant? They absolutely killed Sunreavers and that was entirely fucked up. Lor'themar even acknowledges later that Jaina was out of line for imprisoning people in the violet hold but they wouldn't have been in that position had Garrosh not been a psychopath. Lor'themar remains cordial with high elves, allowing them to return to silvermoon to view the sunwell. Even allowing Alleria's son to stay there.

High Elves (and Void Elves) now have strong bonds with the alliance, namely the humans, dwarves and draenei.

The unwillingness to cooperate and haughty attitude was the downfall of Quel'thalas in the end. It's a basic lesson but absolutely rings true in real life.

[sesshy380]

If you get this, answer w/ three random facts about yourself and send it to the last seven blogs in your notifs. anon or not, doesn’t matter, let’s get to know the person behind the blog!

At 5'9", I am one of the shortest people between both sides of my family (which explains the 6'5" 15 y/o)

One of my fave VA's of all time is Gideon Emery. He's voiced several of my favorite characters, including Fenris from DA2 and Lor'themar Theron in WoW (not to mention he played Deucalion, in Teen Wolf)

I am team Pineapple on Pizza. Not that it's one of my regular go-to toppings, but I will eat it.

[transrathma]

i Also wanted to include my wormcraft ships in the last ask game but i felt awkward putting them all in the tags. so. if ur seeing this consider this my formal request to include nydie/flynn/matthias and jeshae/lor'themar AND kallyne/darion. okay. thanks

[sunreaved]

lor'themar and halduron absolutely rip the piss out of aethas when he takes the throne and ngl i love it. luv that for lor'themar especially, how cathartic for him. i'd include rommath but rommath wouldn't be joking with any mean thing he said or did lol

[legendaryevokercupcake]

I mean, it's not exactly like Lor'themar gets much of a choice...

This is for you Romkael shippers out there btw, if you are not one of those Romkael shippers out there, this isn't for you.

So let's flashback to Anasterian's reign real quick. Near the end of his life, Anasterian is getting weaker. Fearing that he may falter, he places Belo'vir Salonar as his second in command. Sylvanas, while a good military leader, is just that. A military leader. Belo'vir is:

Well versed in the magic that this kingdom was built on

Incredibly intelligent

Quick witted

Married to Vandellor, the main religious leader of Quel'thalas, cementing his power (Semi-canon)

And last but not least, set up with an heir. Rommath.

These are all qualities that Rommath shares.

He's well versed in both Arcane magic, the power that Quel'thalas was built on, and Fel magic, the power it was saved (and doomed) by.

He's remarkably intelligent, as well as having a death glare that could probably actually kill (it's how Kael'thas died lmao)

He's the adoptive sibling of Liadrin, the current religious leader

He's set up with Astalor in line to take over his position, and if Astalor can't, he has Esara, and if Esara can't, he has a whole host of other people (HC: Including Cindrethresh, one of the most talented assassins and warriors in recorded and probably unrecorded history. Ya can't tell me Mx. Bloodthirsty "Please sit down Cindre you're scaring Viridia" won't join the group known for being merciless demon massacrists with minimal moral restraints.)

And most importantly (ROMKAEL TIME BITCHES) he was engaged to Kael'thas. We don't know how Thalassian succession works, but that sets him as a prime candidate for the throne.

So. Rommath is:

The heir of Belo'vir, who was in the position that a queen would have held

The person who would have been monarch-consort if Kael hadn't died

The only member of Silvermoon's triumvirate who has an heir

A man who has ties in the church

Patriotic (Not metaphorical government dick sucker)

Smart enough to maneuver himself into this position

Smart enough to get out of this position if he needs to

Basically the savior of the elven race after he made the conversion spell that makes Fel magic safe to consume

It's not looking good for Halduron, or hell, Lor'themar if Rommath wants the throne. Hal is a good military leader, but he doesn't have the political standing to get very far. Lia is too tied to the Church for separation of Church and State to let her rule. Thalyssra doesn't even have a claim to the throne, and even if she did, doesn't have enough backing by the military for her to rule.

Pretty much we get a council or we get Rommath. I honestly don't care. I really like Rommath.

the wiki:  With the fall of the Sunstrider dynasty, Quel'Thalas no longer has a clear line of succession. If Lor'themar were to fall, it is possible that in the absence of a designated successor, Grand Magister Rommath would come into power; his current station is arguably the highest in the kingdom below Lor'themar’s. Alternatively, power might pass to Halduron Brightwing as Quel'Thalas’ military leader.

lor’themar: neither of them it would be liadrin thanks 

[cloakoflame]

is your muse canon divergent in any way?

Munday Asks

Yes. As much as I try to stick to lore and canon, there are some things about canon Kael'thas that I elect to ignore or, at best, like to explore outside of that.

Fingernails The number one thing I don't care for is how Blizzard has continued to depict Kael'thas with those monstrously long fingernails. Now, I can see where that would make sense in the Burning Crusade era because he was addicted to the potency and power of fel magic. A little fact about fel magic if you don't know: it blows not only your good traits, but also your bad traits completely out of proportion. It twists other users like Gul'dan, Grommash, Illidan, and the demon hunters, and the more they take fel magic, the more you see see both emotional and physical deformities--green skin, long fingernails, green eyes (for elves), arrogance, power-hungry, etc. So I try to pretty much rationalize that Kael has those fingernails because of fel magic.

But then Shadowlands came along, and Kael had them there, too. Sooo no. Nope. I do not depict Kael with long nails ever or the red nail polish--with the exception of Burning Crusade maybe only because I can understand it was him at his most arrogant. Okay, his Reveler skin in Hearthstone has black nail polish and the inner goth in me likes this. Just not so long please.

Personality The only thing I can think of with this and it probably depends on what RP AUs I set him in, but I tend to portray (or I know at first I did portray) Kael'thas as more mellow, sensitive, and thoughtful? A little more wise than he can sometimes be even in Shadowlands, but I do praise Blizzard for including his heavy remorse, guilt, reserved nature, guardedness, etc, which is exactly how I've always done it.

RP Canon Divergences I have two AUs that explore Kael outside of canon. One is the Survivor AU where Kael survived Tempest Keep and ACTUALLY went through Wrath of the Lich all the way to current expansion. Getting to explore his potential and what an impact he could have made on the lore is so interesting (and sad) to think about. I love Lor'themar, but Kael could have had so many interesting things to say and do. Would he have faced Arthas again as the Lich King? How would he have reacted to Jaina purging the blood elves from Dalaran? What about confronting his pride in Mists of Pandaria?

The other AU is Revival, which I haven't given as much love in recent years. Basically, Kael is revived by the naaru Xera after his death in Magister's Terrace and undergoes a journey of remorse, spiritual self-discovery, and goes back to Silvermoon by beginning of Mists of Pandaria where he eventually proves himself to his people, who slowly forgive him for his crimes. He confronts Kil'jaeden, aids the Nightborne during their own insurrection against Elisande, reconnects with Jaina, etc.

[kaelthas-sunstrider-official]

Unpopular Opinion

When will the Horde get a good warchief? 

[regentlord]

Sir ....... did you ....... and Dar'Khan, did you ...... sIR DID YOU AND .... DID YOU??? DID YOU. YOU KNOW. :(

always accepting meta asks !

— @acherys

we will neither confirm nor deny those allegations at this time, the regent lord is taking no more questions today

...

ok let me answer this for real because i have had this thought for years and was always too much of a coward to properly elaborate.

in blood of the highborne, we're introduced to liadrin, gallel and dar'khan having been captured by trolls. lor'themar, also captured, arrives later - and immediately promises he'll find a way to get them all out of there. no one will be left behind. it's all or none. ultimately they escape by uniting forces, and become a group of close friends. liadrin's narration makes it clear though they met in struggle, they went on to share in each other's growth and victories - as well as that, being the only one not advancing professionally, dar'khan started to grow envious and bitter.

my point, though, is that while she notices this, she seems like the only one who does - and not really without reason, I think, because to me lor'themar always read as closer to dar'khan than she was. it makes sense, too - despite their eventual friendship, dar'khan shows disdain for the priests. he is proud, arrogant and constantly placing himself above others from the start, but I suppose that wouldn't be so easy to see to one he may have treated as an equal. and I imagine he did because the farstriders are important, they're quel'thalas' main and nearly only significant military force they have. lor'themar is not only one of them but suggested to be high-ranking. I think dar'khan would've treated lor'themar very differently from the disdain and arrogance he shows to others.

and, well, if he was arrogant and a bitch on occasion, lor'themar can't quite criticize when so is he. they're young when they meet, and certainly more foolish; he'd let a lot slide.

anyway. back to the point: I think between the group itself, there are different dynamics at play. lor and lia are best friends, but he isn't as close to gallel as he is to her. he is most definitely close to dar'khan, though, I just think it's. a different type of close.

I don't think they were ever deeply romantically involved, though I do think the tension existed, maybe even some initial feelings. idk about dar'khan really, idk how much of what he showed all this time would have been real and what would've been fake (and not knowing even after is one of the things that plagues lor'themar the most. some moments are easy, he can remember and think himself foolish for not seeing through him before. but others... others he'll replay over and over in his head, turn around inside out, analyze every pause and each breath and be unable to say whether it was true or false and it'll torment him long after dar'khan is finally gone for good). but I do think lor'themar cared for him deeply, and that there was a romantic interest as well, but he never acted on it, at least not in the sense of truly being in a relationship. they were good friends and he didn't want to threaten to ruin that (lol), and they were also both seemingly very focused on their jobs to bother with serious relationships back then. doesn't mean they never explored each other's bodies carnally but I'm not saying they did either.

the tldr is: I think they were really close, in a way that was particular to them and not about belonging to a friend group. I think the tension existed and lor'themar at one point did have an interest in him as more than friends. I don't think they were ever in an actual relationship in that sense, not in any way either of them would consider it a relationship. and I think their even closer bond is also part of why lor'themar would never in a million years distrust him. they had been close friends for ages. he thought he knew dar'khan, flaws included, and treachery wasn't one of them. he definitely saw more good in him than dar'khan proved to have, be it out of it being what he wanted to see, dar'khan faking it, the homoerotic tension clouding his vision or all previous options.

[knicks-knacks]

do the racial leaders for hotness. Including the allied races. And Arthas and Jaina.

sdfkhdsjkh oh no. okay I'm gonna go with current racial leaders as of Shadowlands just to make it more interesting. other than Turalyon bc 🤢 I refuse to include him

LORD HAVE MERCY: Baine, Lillian Voss, Lor'themar, Thalyssra, Mayla, Talanji. Anduin, Jaina, Genn, Tyrande.

Pretty but hmmm: Alleria, Aysa

they're aight: Thrall, Rokhan, Geya'rah, Gazlowe, Malfurion, Ji, everyone on the Dwarf council

Not My Type Oop: Kiro, Gelbin, Velen

[katieskarlette]

Shadows Rising: A Reaction Post

Short, mostly non-spoilery version:  I liked it overall.  I give it a solid B, maybe a B+.

I was disappointed in how little Nathanos and/or Sylvanas content there was, but I think proclamations of the ship’s doom are premature.  

I’m intrigued by the first rumblings of new character development for certain characters, especially Anduin, Alleria and Turalyon.

I was rooting for Talanji so much.  She’s great. Zekhan is a cinnamon roll too pure for this world.  Sira was kind of boring. Fairshaw is so darn heartwarming I can’t stand it. I like Bwonsamdi more now. The lack of Wrathion is unsurprising but unfortunate. Nothing new with Tyrande but she’s already poised for major development in Shadowlands.

Much longer, spoilery version below.

This ended up being more of a ramble than an essay, but there’s a lot of disjointed thoughts pinging around in my head, so let’s dive in.

Overall, I enjoyed Shadows Rising.  Was it the best book ever?  No.  Not even the best Warcraft book ever.  But it was an enjoyable read.  It’s always a treat to get into the heads of characters we mostly know in passing from in-game events.  There are internal, emotional beats that cannot easily be explored in the game, and the books are a way to build the world and the characters in a more introspective, slow-paced manner.  I like that.  (That’s not to say there are no action scenes, because there definitely are.)

Talanji, Jaina, Zekhan, and Anduin were all written well and sympathetically.  Maiev’s only in a couple scenes, but she felt off to me.  Nathanos was very in-character, in all his snide, sour glory.   Flynn and Mathias are great together.

The pacing was fine.  The descriptions were good, and it all felt grounded in the game world (i.e. landmarks, ambiance, the ridiculous amount of stairs in Daz’alor...)  Each of the Horde leaders got a moment or two in the spotlight.  Despite a fair amount of chapters about Anduin, Alleria, Turalyon, and Jaina, it still felt like a Horde-centric book to me.  Not that that’s a bad thing.

Prologue:  Gayness detected on page 8!  And it’s even something I kind of inadvertently predicted.  In my reaction post for Before the Storm I wrote, “ In this book alone, it would have been so easy to have that blacksmith bringing a helmet as a gift to his long-lost Forsaken husband instead of friend.”  That’s basically what we have here.  I don’t know if they were married, and neither were blacksmiths, but the Westfall moonshiner describes one of the Forsaken slain in Arathi as “the best man I ever knew and loved.”  Tada!  See how easy it was?  Add Jago x Wilmer to the growing list of LGBT rep in Azeroth.  (Even if they’re super minor characters in the long run, it’s still great to see.)

There might be some kind of parallel to be drawn between Alleria failing Anduin (by not finding/killing Sylvanas) and Nathanos failing Sylvanas (by not killing Bwonsamdi) but my brain is too overloaded from binge-reading to articulate it right now.  Both failed their king or queen, but both were also given nearly impossible tasks. 

Alleria and Turalyon are definitely being set up as antagonists.  We are clearly supposed to side with Jaina on this, and be uncomfortable (if not outright horrified) at their torture methods.  It’s especially disturbing how they use their respective void and light powers to accomplish their goals.  I mean, on one hand it’s great that both sides of the great cosmic divide can work together, and their marriage seems stronger than it was for awhile there, but yeesh...can you not torture people?  I know, ends justify the means, slippery slope, greater evil, blah blah, but still...that’s not okay.  It’s yet another sign that the Light is not necessarily good (or the void necessarily evil).

I welcome conflict within the Alliance, though.  That’s been the Horde’s thing for long enough.  Time to see how the blue side deals with its rifts.

In chapter 2 Nathanos is annoyed when a dreadtick flies by his head.  What, was it too similar to a bird for his liking?  Heh. 

All that time in Nazmir, and we didn’t get to see a single crawg!  Harumph.

It took three chapters and 39 pages to finally get something from Nathanos' perspective, and he was much more scarce going forward than I had hoped.  The bits we did get from his perspective were great and in-character, but I wanted to get into his head more.  Most of his scenes were from the POV of Sira or the troll villain instead, and while Apari was a good character I find Sira to be pretty one-dimensional. 

I kind of got paternal vibes from Nathanos toward Sira, though.  He was like, “I’ve been undead a lot longer than you; I know how to handle the bloodlust and such.  Get it out of your system at appropriate times but learn to control yourself.  There’s more to (un)life than slaughtering people.”  She herself, though, was just “Rawr, I hate everything and want to kill anything that moves.”  I mean, I get that she’s been through some traumatic stuff, but I didn’t find myself invested in her at all.

Page 42, as a bunch of trolls are about to be slaughtered:  "Hungry birds circled, expectant of a big meal, and Nathanos so hated to disappoint."  WHAT?  Nathanos wanted to do something nice for BIRDS?  I know, the phrasing fits with his dry, sarcastic sense of humor, but considering the running joke about him hating birds, it still made me go, “Huh?”

Chapter 5 (and later on, as it turns out):  Zekhan having a soft spot for kids is too precious for this world.

Page 51:  Thalyssra's eyes were "sparkling as she gazed across the room at Lor'themar."  Awwwwwww.   There was a surprising amount of ship fodder in this book overall, with Lor’themar x Thalyssra, Turalyon x Alleria, Fairshaw, and Zehkhan x Talanji all getting a moment or two (or more.) 

Chapter 6:  Anduin says, "Turalyon, take Alleria Windrunner and investigate these deaths."  You know, Alleria...YOUR WIFE?  I don't think you need to say her last name there, genius. 

While I’m being snarky about the editing, there were at least two times where the word “grieves” was used instead of “greaves.”  I spotted a couple other little things that a better editor (or one with more time, maybe it was rushed, I don’t know) would have caught.

Chapter 7:  More matter-of-fact LGBT inclusion for minor characters, this time a lesbian troll couple who want to marry.  Yes, thank you Blizzard, keep it up.

Chapter 8:  If you’re going to make the “Zappy Boy��� nickname for Zekhan canon, having Bwonsamdi be the one to wink at the camera and use it was a great decision.  I can totally imagine him saying it.

We learn the name of Varok’s wife/Dranosh’s mother:  Remda.  Although I read elsewhere that the vision Zekhan saw of the Saurfang family in the afterlife was just Bwonsamdi’s B.S., it was still cool.

Chapter 13:  Nathanos wearing cologne?  Love it.  And it’s not even to cover up the rotting smell, because apparently his new body doesn’t stink like some undead; it just doesn’t smell like a living person, either, and some find it unnerving.  So he wears cologne.  That’s such a delightful little detail, and surprisingly considerate of him.

Sira complaining about bugs:  "We'll be eaten alive."  Uh no, you'd have to BE ALIVE for that to happen. Tsk.

Nathanos being called "the pale rider" makes me think of old cowboy movies.  Like, “You greenhorns better clear out; the Pale Rider is comin’ to town and there’s gonna be trouble.  Go wake up the sheriff.”  

Sira says that while on the voyage to Zandalar the dark rangers liked to tell the tale of how Nathanos was promoted to Ranger Lord by Sylvanas.  I'm surprised he lets them gossip like that!  His quests in vanilla made it seem he wanted to keep those parts of his past on the down-low, at least from the player.

Chapter 14:  Thrall's second kid is Rehze.  *blink*  Reh-zee?  Rez?  Ruh-zay?  I guess she’s not named after anyone.  After he named his son Durak (sort of after Durotan) I assumed he’d continue the pattern with kid #2.  Maybe she’s named after one of Aggra’s relatives.  (Later I read on Wowpedia that the author actually said she dislikes the “fan service” trend of naming children after other characters so she just picked a random orcish name.  I don’t think it’s fan service, because lots of real-life people do it, but okay.  Fair enough.)

Speaking of orcish names, there’s an orc page helping out the council named Gunk.  Like, what you clean out from under your fingernails after gardening.  Gunk.  LOL

Aww, that’s no fun...Maiev's wearing a cape trimmed in white fur, not daggers.  What happened to her impeccable/deadly fashion sense?

Chapter 16:  Zekhan starting to clap at Talanji's speech and then stopping and shrinking back when he realized no one else was applauding was so freaking adorable.

Chapter 17:  Fairshaw, full steam ahead!!!  Their chemistry is everything I hoped it would be.  Learning a little about Flynn’s tragic past was both fascinating and heartbreaking.  (We learned his mom’s name: Lyra Fairwind.  R.I.P.)

Chapter 18:  Proodmoore keep has a gallery with floor to ceiling oil paintings of the Proudmoore family, extended family, and beloved friends.  It now includes Anduin.  I can’t help thinking that, in a different timeline, Arthas’ portrait would have been there.

Will wonders never case?  Ji Firepaw actually gets to do stuff!!!  GASP!

"Thrall understood that to other humans Wrynn was said to be pleasing-looking, but to the orc, Anduin simply looked like a small, pink boy swallowed by clunky armor."  So it’s canon that Anduin is good-looking in-universe.  But LMAO at Thrall’s description.

Chapter 22:  From Shaw’s POV, "These odds ranked pretty low...  Maybe just above the time he had relied completely on a shoddy network of spies embedded in a cheese business."  OMG leave Elling Trias alone!  He did his best!  LOL

Shaw wanting to hang out in a mountain meadow and whittle bird calls (perhaps even with a special someone) was so touchingly normal.  That’s the kind of characterization that the books are so much better at than the game.

I actually like Bwonsamdi more after reading this.  Not that I disliked him before, but I didn’t have a strong sense of him due to not playing Horde as much in BFA.  He’s a well-done gray character:  not good, not evil, insightful but a smartass, part of the great cycle, out for himself but also taking his duties seriously (saving troll souls from the Maw.) 

I’m not entirely sure that we needed as much from Thrall’s POV as we got.  I mean, sure, he’s a familiar character with ties to a lot of others, so it was easy to drop him into situations, and his ties to Jaina made cross-faction communication easier, but he didn’t seem as relevant to the lore of Zandalar and the Shadowlands as some other characters.

Maiev seemed OOC, especially in the Stockades scene.  I know one of the themes of the book was “people change,” and I suppose I should be happy that she has a more moderate viewpoint nowadays, dialing back the Lust For Vengeance Meter from eleven to maybe a five or a six, but it didn’t feel like Maiev.  Especially because her message of “maybe don’t go overboard with this vengeance thing” was aimed at Tyrande, of all people, someone who Maiev has had quite legitimate reasons to dislike for a very, very long time.  I could see her maybe mellowing out a little in front of fellow Wardens, but Tyrande?  Eh, it didn’t feel right to me.

No surprises from Tyrande in this.  She’s still steely cold, vengeance-obsessed, consumed by anger.  Not that I blame her, but it’s not healthy.  I know we’ll be exploring her situation more in Shadowlands, so this was more of a reminder/reinforcement of where she is right now.  It was kind of funny how Thrall, Baine and Calia tried to talk to her and she just gave them the stink eye and the silent treatment, though.

I’m fine with Anduin exploring his dark side a bit more, as long as they don’t go overboard with it.  I like him as an earnest, good-hearted character.  It’s only natural to test your limits, though, especially in times of crisis.  Power corrupts, and he’s got plenty of it, both politically and magically, so I can understand Jaina and Mathias being a bit uneasy.  Add to that the increasing themes about the Light not being as benevolent as we originally assumed, and there’s potential for interesting plot there.  In the end I want Anduin to stay firmly on the side of good, empathy, compassion, etc., but a deviation into the shadows along the way isn’t a bad thing for the story.

I imagine every single person who read about Anduin sneaking off to the Lion’s Pride Inn in Goldshire smirked about that place’s reputation on certain RP realms.  I was surprised he didn’t find scantily-clad elves and draenei dancing on the furniture.  And then it turns out Jaina was there, too.  Awkward!

Why, oh why couldn’t we have had a scene with Anduin and Wrathion hanging out (incognito, of course) in a tavern?  That was their thing in MoP, and now with Anduin desperately wanting to get away from his duties for awhile and soak up some tavern ambiance it would have been perfect.  Let Anduin show off the best taverns Stormwind has to offer.  Even though Wrathion was as much a guest at the Tavern in the Mists as Anduin was, he acted like he owned the place and Anduin was his guest, so let them turn the tables and have Anduin play host.  There could be jokes about how he better not punch Wrathion again or they’ll get kicked out for starting a bar fight.  They could have still seen the young recruits, ran into Jaina, etc.  But Anduin really needs a buddy to hang out with right now.  

And you can’t tell me after Nya’lotha fell Wrathion just disappeared again and never at least visited Stormwind to tell grandiose tales about how he stabbed an Old God, it was so heroic, and he wasn’t scared at all, and those mean adventurers were so quick to believe he’d been corrupted, but he hadn’t, and did you know Azshara was there?  And then N’Zoth almost won but KERPOW LAZERS and oh Anduin you should have seen it, etc. etc. etc.

I should be used to being disappointed about Wrathion’s absence by now, but there are SO MANY MISSED OPPORTUNITIES!

Sigh.  Moving on.

Being exposed to spoilers meant I wasn’t fooled by it, but it was still a deft bit of writing to have the dark rangers drink poison when cornered by Horde soldiers, then mention Nathanos having a vial in his coat, which he drinks when defeated--making the unspoiled reader assume he’s killing himself--only for it to be a kind of liquid hearthstone attuned to Sylvanas.  Had I not known that he survived the book I would have freaked out there.

So, like, was Bolvar just sitting there on the ground awkwardly eavesdropping while Sylvanas and Nathanos talked/argued?  Or did he use that time to sneak away unnoticed?  LOL

Which brings us to the epilogue that’s caused so much hand wringing and wailing from my fellow Blightrunner shippers.  It wasn’t the openly sentimental interaction between them that I had hoped for, but I honestly didn’t read it as the doom of the ship.  A bump, at worst.

[If you’re not interested in the relationship between Nathanos and Sylvanas, or if you’re one of those people who simply hate his character, you can skip the rest of this post.]

First of all, Sylvanas had just broken the Helm of Domination.  That was a hugely significant thing to do, both for her personally and in the cosmic scheme of things.  Her state of mind at that moment had to have been in a turmoil.  So if she was a little distracted and tense, I think that’s quite understandable.

Second, I saw other fans being upset that she threatened/wanted to strike him.  That’s not how I read it at all.  “Sylvanas could strike him, scream and hollow out his soul, but it would not correct the failing.”  She’s not saying she wants to do that, just that she could.  The instinct to lash out in violence is ingrained in all the undead; death knights have to do it or they go mad.  So for her mind to go there in a moment of high emotion seems natural to me.  She doesn’t actually attack him or verbally/physically threaten him.  People say things like “I could have killed my brother for eating the last slice of cake” or “I could’ve strangled my co-worker when she spoiled the ending of the movie” and it’s not literal.

Third, she doesn’t say “go away, I never want to see you again.”  She says “Go where you will, Nathanos, but do not be idle” and “I expect you will return to me with means to prevent [Bwonsamdi’s] meddling.”  So essentially she’s saying, “Fine, go home, regroup, come up with Plan B, and if it’s not possible to destroy Bwonsamdi at least concentrate on countering him.”  Also note that she still considers the operation to be theirs, not just hers:  “This was a blow, but one she felt sure they could overcome.”  That tells me she expects to work with him in the future.

Fourth, and granted this is before she learns of his failure, but she’s clearly happy to have him there when he first arrives.  “’My champion,’ Sylvanas purred.  ‘Your timing could not be better.  Tell me of your victory as we take these first steps together.’”  She wanted to cross into the Shadowlands with him at her side.  Hell, that’s bridal imagery...crossing the threshold together, and all that.  The only reason she tells him to go is because his work isn’t done and she still needs him on Azeroth.  But she explicitly says “I expect you will return to me.” 

Fifth, in the line from her POV about how “the unjust ladder of their lives must be dismantled,” the “they” she’s referring to is all of the denizens of Azeroth, true, but I think there’s also a tinge of bitterness there as she looks back on her own life, and her life with Nathanos.  Destiny has not been kind to either of them.

Sixth, she says “My path lies ahead” as she prepares to cross into the Shadowlands.  It’s a reminder of the scale of the forces she is trying to manipulate.  When faced with the potential fates of all the souls in the universe, her own regrets are insignificant.  She can’t stay on Azeroth any longer, even if some part of her does want to just chill out on a beach somewhere with Nathanos and watch his blighthounds chase seagulls.  She thinks “It would not be easy, but then, her mission required great sacrifice.”  Like leaving him behind.

Even this part can be interpreted different ways:  “She heard the note of hope in his voice, fragile as a fledgling dropped from the next.”  Putting aside the humor of comparing bird-hating Nathanos to a fledgling, we don’t get a value judgment about the comparison.  Sylvanas doesn’t think about him sympathetically, wanting to protect him in a vulnerable moment, but she also doesn’t think, “Geez, what a pathetic weakling.”  It goes back to that bit in Warbringers about how she can’t kill hope.  And she can’t.  Here, again, no matter how bleak things are, no matter how displeased she is at his failure, he still has hope.  And she needs that, whether she believes it or not.

When she “flicked her fingers, as if ridding herself of a speck of muck” that can be interpreted as her thinking of him in a derogatory way, but she was also talking about Bwonsamdi in the same breath so I can choose to believe that’s who she was being dismissive of.

I don’t know.  I get that some of the language is discouraging.  She describes him as having “blubbering lips” and she’s definitely not happy with him.  But these two have been through a lot, and their bond has remained strong.  I’m sure this isn’t their first fight, or the first time he’s disappointed her.  This isn’t the end for them.  Just another bump on a very long highway they’ve traveled together.

...

OMG this has turned into a monster of a post, rambling all over the place.  I hope it’s coherent enough to follow.  I’m just in lore overload at the moment (and enjoying every second.)  I know I’m forgetting things I wanted to talk about, too, but I’m going to go ahead and post it as it is.

[warwaged-archive]

On my first reading of Shadows Rising, I had liked Nathanos quite a lot. Going back to his part in the book after revisiting past content (Dark Mirror and Before the Storm, specifically, as they are both relevant to his character and to recent content, coming from Legion and BFA, and supposedly then, at least the later should be somewhat related to his current arc and what he’ll be up to in Shadowlands), I don’t really like it though. 

On the surface, I’d say it looks like he’s doing what he always does --- whatever it takes to achieve Sylvanas’ goals --- but on closer inspection, his feelings and indeed his very approach to this ‘doing what must be done’ isn’t really how we’ve had it before.  

Before Shadows Rising is not one of mindlessly following her decisions, but to look at them, sometimes disagree with them and even outright question why she’s doing what she’s doing, and stick with her nonetheless. Nathanos’ relationship with Sylvanas is looked at more closely in Dark Mirror, both in past and present (that would then be Legion), and it establishes a few important things: his unwavering loyalty to her, her loyalty to him, and how undeath took from them everything, and even then not all of their feelings were lost. Back in Dark Mirror, there’s still a struggle with it, a denial. 

It also establishes they had a relationship before, in life, and I think that’s important too in regards to their dynamics then. In life, Nathanos is already unwavering loyal to her. His first concern is what their closeness does to her reputation in Quel’thalas, for example, when they are discussing why he had kept some distance from her homeland.

"Let those rumormongers say what they will about me. But you are their leader and can ill afford to lose their respect."

But when Sylvanas calls him back to her side, his decision is that she’s more important to him than anything else. That while personally he’d be happier with a quieter life, he wouldn’t be happier without her, and if to be with her he had to suffer some things he loathed and leave behind what he would have preferred, it was still worth it.

He thought for a moment about the incessant politics of Silvermoon, the disapproving sneer of Lor'themar Theron, and the shadow of the encroaching Horde. Part of him longed for a quieter life, one spent working the land as his father and grandfather had before him. He could resign from the Farstriders and live out his days here at the stead. At home. But that would require sacrificing something far more precious to him than his position as ranger lord.

 As his feet began to follow the well-worn path to the house and the warm hearth that awaited him inside, he knew his choice was decided. Damn the politics. Damn the world! He had made a promise to Sylvanas, and nothing would keep him from her side. 

It isn’t a one-sided relationship, though. Sylvanas goes all the way from Quel’thalas to Marris’ Stead after him, to bring him back to her, and even when her words speak of duty, her actions speak of more than that.

Sylvanas brushed a few stray strands of auburn hair from Nathanos's eyes. "As ranger general, I have a duty to receive reports from my scouts in the field. And since you sequester yourself here in the wilds of Lordaeron rather than serve in Quel'Thalas, I am obliged to check on you from time to time." 

And sometimes, her words speak of their relationship being closer than just a work relationship too kjasndkfansd

"When will you leave?" he asked at last. 

She granted him the slightest of smiles. "On the morrow, I should think. It is late, and you owe your ranger-general a meal... and your company." She began walking toward the house. As she passed, her fingertips brushed against the back of his hand. 

Before the Storm also speaks of their past relationship, in a positive light and in Sylvanas’ point of view, as she is the one to remember it.

She was unarmed, but he carried a bow and bore a quiver full of arrows. The only human ever to become a ranger, he was a superlative marksman. It was one reason he was the best bodyguard Sylvanas could possibly have. There were other reasons, too, reasons that had their roots in the distant past, when the two had connected under a bright and beautiful sun and had fought for bright and beautiful things. 

Dark Mirror reaffirms that dynamics in some way in how they meet when Sylvanas break Nathanos free from the Lich King’s mind control. She goes back for him specifically. There’s another undead when Sylvanas and her dark rangers find Nathanos, and they just kill her, but act to incapacitate him in order for him to listen, instead.

As he tensed to leap forward, the middle target barked out an order. In unison, the flanking pair took aim and sent a rain of heavy, blunted arrows thumping into his legs. He fell hard to the ground. Each time he tried to rise, more arrows pummeled him back down. Damnable creatures! He did not pause to reason why the cloaked figures hadn't ended him as they had the woman. 

You know why? Because, once again, she went looking for him herself, to call him back to her side.

His eyes drifted down to the mottled skin of his gnarled fingers, stained deep red by his recent kill. A rush of shame banished the thrill of his reunion with Sylvanas. The thought that she would see him like this, a decrepit, nightmarish mockery of his former self, filled him with disgust. Almost of its own volition, his forearm rose to hide his rotting face. 

"Sylvanas," he rasped through parched lips. His voice sounded foreign, and he realized it was the first word he'd spoken since his death. Conscription to the Lich King's service had never required him to speak—only to kill.

"I have come for you, Nathanos, to call you back to my side." 

He was not worthy to stand with her. To even look upon her. Yet her strength, her power, enthralled him, compelling his arm to fall away so his eyes could meet hers. "You see what I... have become," he growled. "Why would you want such a monster to serve you?" 

Sylvanas waved her hand as if dismissing the bits of pulpy corpse strewn about the ground. "I am building a new kingdom, Nathanos, made up of the Forsaken dead freed from the Lich King's thrall. You will become my champion, and together we will call down a blight of suffering upon him. Arthas will answer for his crimes!" 

See. She’s acting, out of her own volition, going back for him while showing disregard for others, to call him back to her side. Again. And Nathanos is the one who feels unworthy of her, who declares himself a monster and questions why would she want him by her side when she’s seeing what he is, but her answer is to dismiss what he’s ashamed of as unimportant, and to reaffirm that she wants him by her side, that she wants him as her champion, that she wants him to fight with her and get back at the one who caused them so much torment. And by the end of it, Nathanos reaffirms his loyalty to her once again.

[...] Anger and hatred still consumed his heart, but his will was again his own. 

No. Not his own. 

It was hers, just as it had always been. 

The dark rangers attending Sylvanas tensed as Nathanos rose to his feet. He took a step forward, then bowed his head. "I am yours, Dark Lady. For all my days."

And this is all very important because it establishes that Nathanos’ loyalty, while deeply entwined with his love for her, is also an answer to her loyalty to him. He is devout to her, always, in life and death, and he has no trouble swearing himself to her time and again, but it is Sylvanas who actively reaches for him more than once, when he tries to stay away. 

Dark Mirror examines his choices a lot, and how he’s always willing to sacrifice for her, but it differs greatly from Shadows Rising in that they are still his choices. That isn’t Nathanos looking at what Sylvanas wants done and simply acquiescing because she wants it, it’s Nathanos looking at it, often feeling for it, and still choosing her, because his choice is her even when that’s terrible, but it isn’t blind, it isn’t mindless, and it most definitely isn’t shifting the blame to her and saying things were her choice and he just went along with it. There’s a direct callback to Dark Mirror in Shadows Rising through Stephon, but the way that is revisited changes considerably in regards to Nathanos and choice.

Dark Mirror, first:

As he peered down at his cousin, helpless before him, a wave of something unfamiliar rose up in Nathanos's chest. Pity? No, he knew he was incapable of that. But he didn't hate the paladin, not the way he hated other living men. It was pride, he realized. Part of him was actually proud that Stephon had fulfilled the dream he'd clung to as a boy. Even if that dream was about to be undone. 

Nathanos looked up at Sylvanas and met her gaze. Was this the true test? Did she suspect that love for his cousin might move him to betray her? Did she wonder if he, in the moment of decision, might give up everything in one final, desperate glimmer of humanity? 

But of course there was no choice. The whims of a man long dead could not sway Nathanos Blightcaller from his oath. 

"Let us be about it, then," he barked as he made his way to the empty altar. 

"The Light will save me!" Stephon called out, but the desperation creeping into his voice made him a liar. 

"The Light cannot find you here, boy," Nathanos answered, eyes fixed upon his queen. "Together, we will embrace the darkness."

There’s a whole lot to unpack there, and that Nathanos clearly doesn’t. He feels proud of Stephon still (he cares for Stephon still), even after Stephon shuns him for what he has become, like everyone else (other than, you guessed it, Sylvanas). Nathanos being proud of him for what he became, for fulfilling his dream and becoming a paladin, it really does speak of lots of things he buries, including that his disregard for righteousness and the living isn’t entirely how he truly, sincerely feels deep down (but it isn’t that he hides it as much as it is he refuses to acknowledge those feelings exist at all, and embraces instead anger and bitterness). 

But my point right now is choice, and how clearly this is Nathanos’ choice. He thinks there is none, but that isn’t even really how he feels. He is clearly making a choice there, considering that this is precisely what Sylvanas places in front of him, that she wants him to accept this ritual that includes using someone who was his kin (and who he was close to, someone he loved) as fuel to keep him by her side. And Nathanos is not oblivious to it being his loyalty to her put to test, that in this moment he has to choose between remaining loyal, between her, and between whatever humanity he has left, between someone he also loved. Yet even though he says there is no choice, there is. And his choice is to go through with it and act like he’s unbothered and try to convince himself he’s unbothered, even if clearly is not, even if he’ll have to battle the hesitation within him as the ritual starts, even as he looks back on it later with regret when it’s done. 

It isn’t her choice, though. It’s very clearly framed as his --- moved by her, yes, visibly so, to the point his eyes remain on her as that choice is made, as if to remind him of why it is worth it, instead of looking at what he’s sacrificing. It’s far from blind, though, and although Nathanos later feels regret, he not once shows any inkling of resent towards Sylvanas after the ritual is done. He shows nothing but the usual care and loyalty. He feels for Stephon, but he doesn’t waver in his choice -- her -- because of that. As he examines his own change, he thinks of her.

[...] Like a child unwrapping a gift, he yanked the glove from his left hand and stared in awe as he flexed his fingers. 

There was no protruding bone. No dangling flesh or torn muscles. Not a living hand, but it was whole and strong. 

A hand worthy of the queen's champion, Nathanos decided.

"You will vanquish a thousand demons in your queen's name!" she proclaimed. 

His instincts told him she was right. His newfound strength would serve her well in the war to come. And after their victory, if he was very, very lucky, they would die their true deaths and welcome damnation together.

Even though he does struggle with his choice, it’s never framed as not his. Even though it’s framed and fueled by Sylvanas and what she means to him, it’s never suggested the choice is hers.

Then it struck him that the visage he looked upon was not entirely his own. He turned toward the second ritual table, empty save for a bit of ash and a few stains of oily residue. The paladin's armaments, once diligently polished, lay scuffed and strewn about the floor. Nathanos told himself they were merely the detritus of a fallen enemy. Only that and nothing more.

And, very importantly, the whole thing shows it did push his loyalty to her to the limit, but he still chose her. It’s not a choice he’ll ever be in peace with, though, and that’s very clear with the ending, but it was still his choice. 

[...] He moved a few pieces aside to reveal a finely wrought breastplate that was clean and well-maintained. His thoughts drifted back to the ritual, to the empty altar next to his. To a choice. 

For the briefest of moments, he felt the touch of something foreign, unsettling. A sensation absent since the day he died. A weakness of mortality that had imperceptibly stalked him and had, at long last, found his throat. 

Nathanos felt regret.

It evidently impacts him more than anything he’s done for her so far, but it still isn’t blamed on Sylvanas. He regrets that, yes, but he feels regret because ultimately the choice was his. Stephon’s death is on him, because he decided his loyalty to Sylvanas was more important than anything else.

Compare to the revisiting of that in Shadows Rising:

Stephon Marris was long dead, ending as little but a greasy smear on a table, his body the raw materials that built Nathanos anew, and in Stephon’s image. 

My one regret. 

“Why did you let her do it?” Stephon asked softly. “I was your cousin, Nathanos. I looked up to you, I wanted to be you, but not like that. Not like this.” 

His body had been ripped to shreds by an abomination, and then he had risen as a thrall of the Scourge, a mindless ghoul until Sylvanas freed him from that fate. The process had left him renewed in undeath, but in a mangled body that grew ever weaker. Sylvanas sought to repair that crumbling form. 

And used Stephon to do so. 

“I had no choice,” Nathanos replied, unable to meet his cousin’s eye. “My bones were falling from their sockets, my sinews torn and useless, I needed a new body…” 

“When you stole my flesh.”

Nathanos flinched. “Sylvanas made that decision. I could not be made whole without the sacrifice of a family member.” 

Stephon shook his head sadly, regarding Nathanos not with rage or disgust, but pity. “And yet still you serve her. After what she did to me. After what she did to our family. I am the only ghost that moves you, but how many ghosts have you given others? How many men now live, tormented by the loved ones you murdered in service to your vicious queen?”

To have Stephon haunt him is only coherent. He is Nathanos’ one regret, and I don’t think he will ever be rid of it. Stephon being a vision crafted by Bwonsamdi in this context, it makes every sense he’d accuse Nathanos of letting Sylvanas do it. I think all of that is coherent, and good. I love that Stephon would haunt him, because, indeed, he is Nathanos’ ghost in every sense, and one he can never be rid of whenever he sees his own reflection. 

It’s when Nathanos shifts the blame to Sylvanas that I don’t agree with this part and what’s going on here. It was a choice he made well aware, and in spite of his regret, it feels very out of character for Nathanos to just lay the blame at Sylvanas, to say the choice was hers, even if he’s unwilling to face the consequence of a choice that was his. Bwonsamdi has no reason to argue that point, because his intention is clearly to seed doubt and make Nathanos question what he’s doing, and how far he’s going for Sylvanas, but given how the scene in Dark Mirror plays out, and given how Nathanos is always portrayed, I see very little sense in him saying ‘it wasn’t me, it was Sylvanas’.

And that’s what bothers me about him throughout the book, that he’s constantly portrayed as ‘this isn’t me, it’s her’ when previously Nathanos was portrayed as ‘this is me, my choice, and I choose her even when it makes me a monster’. Before, he deliberately puts Sylvanas before himself; here he simply does it, because it’s her will, as if he had no will of his own. 

Our queen has determined you will serve her best here, and it is not our place to ponder such decisions.

No, we are most useful here, that is her determination and so we shall carry out her will.

Only the mission mattered, only the queen’s vision.

Nathanos took no delight in it; this was simply what was required.

“I had no choice,” Nathanos replied, unable to meet his cousin’s eye. “My bones were falling from their sockets, my sinews torn and useless, I needed a new body…”

“When you stole my flesh.”

Nathanos flinched. “Sylvanas made that decision.[...]”

“I will return to the Marris Stead, my lady, and await your orders.”

And hey, if it wasn’t clear enough the book has other stuff that could be taken as pointing to how mindless a follower he is, how he always just do what he’s told without questioning, both in a more direct way with the whole Sira criticizing his attitude with complying and how immediately defensive he gets, because in the author’s own words this is his thing, this is what he does and Sira is questioning it

Was this the badge recognizing as much? Though his eyes always pulsed with the same steady crimson glow, Sira saw that dim for a moment, fading just like the old, etched memento. “What are you doing?” Sira whispered. “We cannot simply give in to every demand and roll over like trained dogs. They will think you weak.”

At that, Nathanos curled his lip, eyes now as hot and bright as his flaring rage. He seemed to collect himself, breathing hard. His strength, it seemed, was not to be questioned. Sira nearly recoiled, but he only pushed the hair back off his forehead, his gaze burning into her with the same furious intensity. “You will learn the value of silence, or I will teach it to you.”

Or in what could be read as a parallel, in Apari’s relationship with Tayo, her second in command, who follows her loyally until Apari is no longer recognizable to her and stands up to Apari, unlike Nathanos who continues to supposedly follow Sylvanas blindly because he has no mind of his own I guess.

“She’s just a child!” Tayo clamped her hand around Apari’s wrist, the one holding the powder. She twisted and pulled, and the weak, septic Apari had no choice but to let go. Tayo threw the pouch in an arc, sending it splashing into the swamp, lost. 

At once, Apari struck her across the face. She didn’t have much strength left, but the slap left Tayo stunned. “I am on the very precipice of death, zagota. I will live. I will live just to see Bwonsamdi and Talanji fall. Nothing, not this girl, nor you, will stop me.” 

Whatever “zagota” meant, Nathanos didn’t fancy it was anything friendly. Tayo marched away, back toward the Zo’bal Ruins. Dark ranger Visrynn moved to follow. 

“Let her go,” Apari muttered. “She will come crawlin’ back. She always does.”

But Tayo does leave and turn on Apari, and while she still cares enough to plead a merciful death for her, she refuses to follow someone twisted by hatred beyond recognition, no longer who she once was.

“My name is Tayo,” the troll spoke quickly and clearly, without a hint of fear. “I served the witch Apari.”

“Served?” Talanji pressed. “I can serve her no longer.” The troll, Tayo, sighed. “She is not the leader I knew. The leader I admired. This—this cruelty is not her, and I cannot follow this Apari. Her hate for you, ya majesty, is all she has.”

And that might be meant to further establish that difference between those two followers to two women changed by resent and hate, or it might be indication of a future path they intend Nathanos to follow, who knows (I’ll talk about it in a bit kasjdnfkjanf).

All of that characterization that has him as mindless minion who just follows and never questions and never stands up for himself and apparently has no will of his own also clashes with how he’s characterized in Before the Storm, which takes place well after Dark Mirror (so arguing their relationship has shifted towards what it is in Shadows Rising since then doesn’t really work). There, Nathanos always speaks his mind to Sylvanas, be it to give his opinion on a situation, even if it goes against hers and he actively makes an effort to change her mind on a decision

Sylvanas shook her head. “This cease-fire is a mistake. It will only lead to pain for my people. They cannot be human, and to dangle this temptation of reunion with loved ones will result in them growing discontented with who they really are—Forsaken. They will deteriorate to heartbroken shells, wanting something they can never have. I have no wish to see them suffer so.” 

Again, she thought of her own attempt at connection with the living and how all it had done was stir up old ghosts best left resting in peace. 

“You could use this to your advantage,” Nathanos said. “Vellcinda said that many Forsaken wish their next death to be their Last Death. They do not wish to keep existing. And one reason commonly cited is that they want to be with those they loved while they lived.” 

Sylvanas turned her head to him slowly, considering his words. 

“If you authorize this experience—this reconnection with people they loved in life—and present it to them as something that you have generously granted them, perhaps they will be more amenable to accepting your solution: finding ways to keep the Forsaken as a race from going extinct.” 

“It is fraternizing with the enemy,” Sylvanas said. “Letting them interact with life and the living.” 

“Perhaps. But even so, it is only for a single day. Give them this hope, this moment with people they thought they’d never see again. Then—” 

“Then I hold the power to their happiness, at least in this aspect,” she finished. “Or they might decide they hate the living and be all the more devoted to their Dark Lady.” Either way Sylvanas would win. 

He nodded. “At the very least, it will demonstrate to them that you are listening to their concerns. I truly believe the Desolate Council to be ultimately harmless. They’re not radical traitors. Give them this chance, once. If you see benefits, you can determine if you wish to repeat it.”

Or when it’s a disagreement he doesn’t feel as strongly about

“[...] He could have planned an attack on his own people with an eye to blaming us for it. Then he would be seen as a strong leader to declare war on us. The ultimate protector of the helpless.” 

“It is possible, my queen.” 

She gave him one of her rare, wry smiles. “But you think otherwise.” 

“With respect, such a thing sounds more like a strategy you would employ,” he said. 

“It does,” she said. “But not today.[...]”

Or when he’s outright questioning what the actual fuck she’s doing, and Sylvanas has to make the effort to argument in favor of her actions.

“My queen, what are you doing?” 

Sylvanas heard the shock in her normally calm champion’s voice. She chose to overlook it. On the surface, what was unfolding below—the firing of arrows, the screams and pleas of the Desolate Council as they tasted their Last Deaths could seem perplexing and disturbing. 

The only thing I can do and still hang on to my kingdom as it is,” she said. “They were defecting.” 

“Some were running back here, to safety,” he replied. 

“They were,” she agreed. “But how much of that was fear? How tempted were they until that point?” She shook her head. “No, Nathanos. I cannot take the risk. The only Desolate Council members I trust are the ones who returned to me early on, broken and bitter. Truly Desolate. All the others…I cannot allow that sentiment, that hope, to grow. It is an infection ready to spread. I have to cut it out.” 

Slowly, accepting her words, he nodded.

And all throughout BFA, that characterization is maintained even as Sylvanas’ character suffered some (terrible) changes. He knows of her plans, her real plans, the entire time. He knows where she goes to after the mak’gora, he knows her intentions, he meets her in Windrunner Spire, and their goodbye suggests he is not only fully committed but reassuring her, and that by that point, there is indeed a romantic bond between them again.

Nathanos: As do I Dark Lady, but when the time comes there can be no hesitation.

Sylvanas: There won’t be. Safe journey, Nathanos.

Nathanos: Safe journey, my love.

And Shadows Rising kind of just throws all of that away, both in Nathanos personally and in their relationship as a whole, when by the end of it Sylvanas simply Does Not Care for him like she doesn’t care for anything else, the Forsaken never mattered, the Horde is nothing etc etc.

I think the change with Nathanos isn’t... always easy to see, because ultimately what he does doesn’t change. He’d do anything Sylvanas wants, anything for the missions she gives him, but I think it’s very different to have that as ‘mindless minion’ and ‘ride or die, I know I’m damned but I’m doing this with my eyes open and I’m glad so long as we face whatever hell we go to together’. In regards to his relationship to Sylvanas, I think it’s only a consequence of them making her into standard villain who cares for nothing other than herself and having power so she has to answer to no one anymore, but it still feels odd when even when turning against the rest of the world, she kept Nathanos by her side. 

It’s impossible to argue she was keeping him around to use him the entire time, and that she was manipulating his feelings and Never Actually Cared, when you have previous stances that show she did, and beyond those I already mentioned, stuff as recent as Before the Storm, in scenes that are clearly framed from her point of view, such as this one:

She was unarmed, but he carried a bow and bore a quiver full of arrows. The only human ever to become a ranger, he was a superlative marksman. It was one reason he was the best bodyguard Sylvanas could possibly have. There were other reasons, too, reasons that had their roots in the distant past, when the two had connected under a bright and beautiful sun and had fought for bright and beautiful things. 

Death had claimed them both, human and elf alike. Little now was bright and beautiful, and much of the past they had shared had grown dim and hazy. 

But not all of it. 

Although Sylvanas had left behind most warmer emotions the moment she had risen from the dead as a banshee, anger somehow had retained its heat. But she felt it subside to embers now. She seldom stayed angry for long at Nathanos Marris, known now as Blightcaller. And he had indeed been about her business, visiting the Undercity, while she had been saddled with duties that had kept her here in Orgrimmar. She wanted to reach for his hand but contented herself with smiling benevolently at him. 

“You are forgiven,” she said. “Now. Tell me of our home.”

She says not all of their past is lost to what grew dim and hazy with undeath, that she seldom stays angry at him for long in spite of how easily angered she can be and how strongly felt that anger is, and she’s not only quick to forgive him, she want to hold his hand. None of that really apply to someone you’re purely using and never really cared for, you know?

“Go where you will, Nathanos, but do not be idle. The loa knows the Shadowlands well, I expect you will return to me with means to prevent his meddling.” Sylvanas flicked her fingers, as if ridding herself of a speck of muck. “My path lies ahead.” 

And so it did. And so she continued, for power sought power, and she would have more of it, not for its own sake, but to wield it. The unjust ladder of their lives must be dismantled, not rung by rung, but all at once. All of it. She had been the plaything of a self-righteous cosmos long enough. The Jailer, too, understood what must be done. She did not know if or when Nathanos left, it mattered not—she had merged entirely with the shadows there already, part of the darkness at last.

And ‘flicked her fingers, as if ridding herself of a speck of muck’, or ‘she did not know if or when Nathanos left, it mattered not’ really does speak of him being unimportant and disposable to her, enough so that this failure of his means he can die in a ditch, she doesn’t care. I get she’d be angry (it’s a very very different situation from the one when she claims to never be angry at him for long, this is a major goal, Bwonsamdi a relevant obstacle to her plans, so of course she’d be angry and frustrated that he failed her in something so important), but what she shows there really isn’t just anger, or just being upset at his failure.

It’s just really really different of how Sylvanas’ feelings towards him were shown before, you know? And not only how he saw them.

"I haven't seen the Dark Lady this pleased in a long while. The moment she realized the Val'kyr were capable of such a ritual, she called for you." 

"Our queen is wise," he answered with a nod. "This body better allows me to serve her." 

Anya chuckled, a sound that raised the hackles on his neck. 

"You disagree?" he snapped. At least his temper hadn't been altered by the Val'kyr. 

"It's not that." She shrugged. 

"What, then?" He all but shouted the words, for the dark ranger seemed far too pleased with herself for his liking. 

She sighed. "Yes, the queen now has a mightier champion. But that wasn't what she most desired." 

He stopped walking and faced her. Nathanos narrowed his eyes, infuriated by her evasiveness. "Say what you mean." 

The corners of Anya's lips rose in a brazen curl. "Sylvanas defied a kingdom to name you ranger lord. She scoured the Plaguelands to reclaim you from the Scourge. And today she drew upon her most precious resource to restore your strength. Think upon these things, Blightcaller, and tell me how someone so cunning can be blind to the simplest of truths."

(me, looking at the ending of Shadows Rising and every other previously mentioned stance when Sylvanas was shown to care for him: *taylor swift vc* one of this things is not like the others)

I know this is already very long but askjfksjnd just a bit more: what I think this is leading to. I think Shadows Rising made a clear effort to establish Nathanos and Sylvanas to fall apart, in that it sowed the seeds in him to question what he did for her and it showed she doesn’t care all that much (or changed things so that this is true now). I’m not against it. It’s not what I’d choose to do, but I think there could be something very interesting in making him go through that arc that mirrors the Forsaken and become something more from it, even though I hate that it’d be reliant on this characterization of Sylvanas that I just really deeply dislike. 

Ignoring that for a moment, I think it could be pretty nice that he’d look back to it to see his choices, to see how far he chose to go for her, how loyal he chose to be to her, and that she didn’t meet this loyalty in kind. That she left him, regarded him as disposable and unimportant (like the Forsaken), and that he has to find his own path without this figure that has always kinda been the center of his world (like the Forsaken), and that this would leave him in a pretty interesting position if he became their leader, because his arc would mirror theirs (as scourge, mind controlled by Arthas, freed by Sylvanas, loyal to her, betrayed by her, and having to make a new, better path himself). Nathanos is clearly capable of good, much more so than he’s willing to acknowledge, and in this situation he just might, because he’d face his regret and reexamine everything. Nevertheless, it relies so much on changing things that were up to now fundamental to his character and his relationship with Sylvanas, and it’s done pretty poorly in my opinion, that’s without saying how reliant it’d be on a characterization of her that, to me, is pretty meh, and that for him to be a leader we’d have to overlook all the shit he did and honestly I don’t think that’s possible kansdfkjsndf He doesn’t fit the new ‘the Horde is wholly good’ thing, and he’s backed up Sylvanas for far too long for anyone to be willing to let it slide, I think. Which makes it even worse, in my opinion, because instead of at least having an arc I think could be interesting he’ll probably just end up dead because he’ll be on his own. 

[wowheadquarters]

Ranking their singing voices

For a lovable anon. Mirror mirror on the wall, who has the singiest voice of them all? This list is out of the usual order with the least singing voices at the top and the best singers at the end. Most of this goes from headcanons rather than serious lore backup, so... So if you view it differently than I do, I’m not saying it’s wrong! Ft. three songs.

Geya’rah: Run! Cover your ears and run! Forget the children and run!

Lor'themar: Firstly, Lor’themar cannot be bothered to sing anywhere near the key or the rhythm. Or to sing at all. Secondly, if you have been paying attention, on this blog at least the Lord Regent has a serious problem with drinking and alcohol isn’t exactly what you should overdo if you want to pursue an opera singer career.

Spirit of Vol’jin: Perhaps he used to be really good at singing, the Zandali language is melodic after all and there is no way serving the loa doesn’t include singing your voice out. But let’s also remember he got his throat slit on Pandaria and it actually never healed properly.

Taedal: He can barely speak competently, it’s a miracle he can sing. Because I say so. Unless I find a very valid reason to retcon this decision, a screeching buzzard sounds ten times better than Taedal.

Ghost Garrosh: As much as he isn’t like his father, he is more close to the scream part in Hellscream rather than the song part in Warsong. (Although, if this list was ranked by rapping capability, he’d be far more towards the top.)

Thalyssra: The Nightborne overall aren’t something I personally would be willing to listen to for too long. Thalyssra and Occuleth sound better than their generic brethren, but the First Arcanist still sounds like her nose is full, so... we give this a soft no.

Ghost Varin: He is dead as dust and also hoarse most of the time because of all the shouting he does. Maybe if we let his voice rest long anough to recover a bit, it gets better.

Anduin: Thanks the Light he is behind the awkward years of voice transition, but it is still... Not something he’d be off to show off. He isn’t a practising priest, he’s a battle-priest, so it’s okay.

Falstad: His voice is actually quite fine, but once he gets on the brew, which is usually half an hour after he rolls out of the bed, he loses his sense of rhythm and melody whatsoever.

Mekkatorque: That’s how you fix most computers: with a lot of swearwords and singing. Also, ‘Torque is the person who sings when stressed. As in “This is all terrible and we’re gonna diiiii-eeee, lala lala la.”

Thrall: Surprisingly good, given he has absolutely zero practice or knowledge of theory at all.

Moira: She doesn’t sing much, but she sings. It is mostly a church practice, I suppose. She doesn’t have to be really good, though, because in places like Ironforge or Shadowforge (as the Dark Iron city in the Blackrock mountain is actually called) has that kind of acoustic everything sounds ten times better than it is.

Aysa: Sometimes people have hard time telling when she is reciting poetry and when she is singing. Her range is narrow, but within her range she is very good.

Ji: As long as you can prevent him from yodelling for fun... Unfortunately, Ji is more of a troll this way.

Velen: He is a Middle Earth fan and nerd. If you have read Silmarilion (like Velen most likely had, or some Azeroth/Argus version of it at least), you’d know the whole story is one big musical. Following this logic, Velen sings.

Muradin: Maybe it is just me, but Muradin is one of the most classic “high fantasy dwarf” trope we have. And those do sing.

Turalyon: He was a Knight of the Silver Hand, that is a trained Paladin. That means he spent years and years in churches and cathedrals full of singing and chanting priests. He most likely had to join some choir of young novices or something, where singing was more or less literally beaten into him.

Mayla: The Tauren have such beautiful melodic voices, it sounds like they are already singing.

Baine: He is probably as good as Mayla, I just have a thing for deeper voices, that’s all. 

Genn: Comes out really surprising, but after the Worgen curse he ended up with a far better hearing, so he had to improve. Not like he sings often. Kings are only allowed to sing in the shower and only when nobody hears them. 

Talanji: Up with Vol’jin I said something about singing while in the service of the Loa, so here is a Priest Princess. Also her not-singing voice is something I could listen to all day.

Alleria: I suppose it’s a Windrunner thing, the singing. But she is older, got stuck in the stressing Twisting Nether for aeons from her point of view, and I am pretty sure the Void doesn’t go soft on your throat either. She used to be better.

Gallywix: I like to think that his path to success was composed of insurance fraud, tax evasion, and a couple of top selling Goblin!Broadway musicals which he both composed and sung in. And while a big portion of his mass is fat, there is also a plenty of room for a pair of really big lungs. With all the theatre-like props he’s wearing, he probably wanted to pursue an opera singer career.

Sylvanas: One of the few people we have actually heard singing, probably. In case you haven’t, she’s the person responsible for the WoW cover of the Lament of the Highborne with backup banshees and all of that. 

Tyrande: I am pretty sure that to be a good priest of Elune, you have to have better than decent voice do sing chants and psalms and whatnot. (It would be easier to say if we got a more in-depth view on the religions of Azeroth, even the “boring” ones. Oh well, I guess I have to do everything by myself in this house.) And Tyrande is in charge. What I am trying to get at is that she has to have sing beautifully. Probably practices on lullabies for Malfurion.

Jaina: Anyway.