#think the cast don't really want the gods to go either but this campaign - and the world - does not need more 'doomed by the narrative'-ism

[danwhobrowses]

Okay I've had a sleep, I've seen a lot of what the fandom has to say and I'm gonna just talk about my thoughts on the episode 118 stuff in more detail too.

Spoilers under the cut and it's a little bit (5 paras and a tl/dr at the bottom) long

I have never liked the Release Predathos option, but it had been very apparent - since probably as far back as the vorbing - that Matt had been pushing the narrative towards that option whether Bells Hells wanted it or not. The lack of alternatives provided meant that yes, the Hells had little choice but to deal with Predathos themselves; Ludinus was likely not dead, they were low on strength and resources even after a short rest to fight another full-strength Ludinus, and even if they caved in the core and killed Ludinus again someone else would've tried to come and release Predathos. On that I can't really fault the cast for playing ball with the DM and I can't say what the characters are doing is out of character or with bad intentions, it simply annoys me how close we were to entertaining the idea that should've been discussed earlier of putting Predathos somewhere nobody can get to. Objectively it was still a terrible idea, one that even in delivery could've been better prepared with Imogen not in range of the two saving throw buffs or having any Inspiration as she took on Predathos knowing from previous experience that a wisdom save is likely to be involved. But again, the alternatives offered up to them are sparse, nothing else in the narrative had offered a clear solution and if something did suddenly come up it would've felt too much like a deus ex machina. The Hells are not doing this because they want to do Ludinus' plan, but doing so is by proxy doing Ludinus' plan, and thus the problem as of current lies in the Plot.

Right now, they're at a very high risk of the plot not justifying a story, because why did we have this campaign if the outcome is gonna be the same? If the plan is to reset Exandria why didn't we have C3 in the post-reset era and trickle in what happened as lore? Bells Hells have often lacked agency when it came to the Predathos portions of the campaign, but even when they took agency to try and be more than what they were made to be they found themselves punished or being withheld the catharsis they needed to grow. Regardless, the plot is currently failing the characters, and thus the characters are failing the audience - to the point where some in the fandom now want them all to die or for Braius to betray them all - because we the audience don't see the appeal of the direction.

There is a caveat though: it's not yet over. We expect that there will be a fight between the Hells and Predathos!Imogen (we need a name for that) and possibly Ludinus swooping in with the harness to try and steal a victory, but that does mean that the theatre of imagination can come into play in dealing with Predathos itself. There is of course uncertainty whether Predathos can die, since Vecna at 0hp would've just discorporated them for a bit, but there are a lot more options for the Hells to entertain now than there was at 118, including having to kill the vessel - be it Imogen or transferring it to another like Ludinus or Liliana, being able to expel Predathos from Imogen and entrapping/banishing/killing it with the knowledge that yeah that was a terrible idea, or somehow having Imogen suppress it and remain control over herself (and hope that the same rule doesn't apply to her as it does with Delilah being free when Laudna dies), which all can involve exciting twists and turns and creative solutions befitting of a conclusion. In that hope is the opening for a more exciting and satisfying end, and while the plot has had rightful criticisms a good ending can make up for them just as much as a bad ending can ruin a good plot.

So in short; I don't like that Imogen did that, but I know why she did it. And why she did it is more the plot's fault because we never saw it as a good idea, just the only decision that was pushed to be made. There's hope though, and all is not lost, but the plot as well as the characters are gonna have to earn it.

[utilitycaster]

in looking for posts about the end of C2 I found a self-inflicted ask meme (called that) in which I asked people to send wish items for C3 and first off, once we do have a hard episode count for C3 I might run something similar because it was fun, but also, looking through, some notes:

Laura playing a sorcerer was rather popular, as was Marisha as a high-Charisma character

Issylra setting REALLY popular...we got a smidge I suppose but this was not really a Continent In Depth campaign

people did want to see Travis as a lycan blood hunter, AND in some cases older characters

Lots of interest in an aeormaton too!

I really wanted to see Sam as a cleric, which is funny because I spent the first 30 episodes pissed off at FCG's execution but I DID come around, so. hat consumed.

why do people care so much about the seating arrangement. bestie i could not give a shit.

I think this campaign also made me go from "previously knowing each other can be good but I'm not interested in more twins, we've moved past that" to "let's keep the prior relationships either brief or like. require you submit a 10 page essay of backstory so we don't get some empty bullshit"

people REALLY liked wild magic barbarian so the fact that Taliesin and Matt were explicitly like "it sucks ass" is funny to me, a person who's neutral on it.

a lot of people wanted Travis as Tabaxi and I hate this and they got mad but I'm right and sexy and ready to have a long mean conversation with you about the anti-ableism leaving people's bodies when it comes to severe allergies.

3+ years and I still hate changelings and kalashtar I'm sexy and right on this one too

someone wanted a horse girl but a cavalier fighter; Imogen's horse girliness sort of didn't really have much time to be a thing (this is not a judgement, this is just, they weren't riding horses much bc of the nature of the campaign) and I would like a cavalier

*ironic laugh* multiple people wanting Laura specifically to play evil aligned.

people really wanted circle of spores for liam. there were a lot of repeats frankly that made no sense to me and i never got the answer. was there a server or something.

Travis INT or WIS caster when

Bard Ashley when

Sam's character should be taller than Travis's ACHIEVED FOR ALL BUT FCG & BERTRAND. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

everyone was like WELL OBVIOUSLY the cast will play elves for the sleep reasons and then no one did.

the specter of a Shadowgast child had already risen unfortunately. before the relationship was fully confirmed no less.

spelljammer fans are not intellectual to put it mildly

please GOD not everything has to be self-referential in-jokes. use your mind.

[deramin2]

God I love Orym's choice to make a deal with Nana Mori so much.

He trusts Morrigan because he trusts Fearne. They're like bonded shelter cats. This place genuinely doesn't feel so bad. Like Maybe someplace he could settle. And then he wouldn't be able to keep running. And in return none of his new family has to die, which is the thing that traumatized him and destroyed his happy life. If they can just stay alive maybe they'll be powerful enough to win. With Ashton and Fearne's new powers, and Imogen leaning into her powers. And Laudna is freaked out about Delilah but also using that power because when she felt angry and terrified and alone it was right there. Chetney is all about harnessing his curse and not just living with it but thriving. All his friends have made these big moves and he was still just some guy. So he got in on the game.

Going home is too painful to him to stay. He wants to visit, but he doesn't feel like he belongs anymore. He hasn't for years, that's why he's been traveling. But he could belong here with Fearne's people because he loves and trusts Fearne.

Nana Mori is weird and off-putting but she doesn't scare Orym. He doesn't think she's deceitful, he thinks she binds people to their word. He's offering something mutually beneficial. Her interests are inscrutable, but Fearne's happiness is one of those interests and he makes Fearne happy. So it's in Mori's best interest to take care of him. And he in turn will take care of her.

Derrig was his lover's father who trained him to be a guardian and made him more powerful so he could do that well. That's not that different than Mori. He's really just repeating familiar patterns with different contexts. He failed Zephrah, but maybe he can redeem himself and also try a new post. He's a soldier.

He doesn't want to die but he thinks it might be inevitable (and worth it) for this cause. He can't let what happened to his husband and his father happen again. He couldn't think through that fear. And he has actually been open about it, but also there actually hasn't been an alternative. This is just one more crux move in a long series of moves to stop all this. All of it suicidally dangerous. None of them are the best people to do this. Chetney voiced what they've all been thinking: their one advantage is they're expendable. Everybody at that war meeting had to be prepared to be expendable, but they're trying to minimize casualties. Bell's Hells are Team Frodo, but there may not be any eagles coming. And Orym knows that. He thinks this is an incredibly important mission but also a one-way trip. But maybe making this deal is what sends the eagles. And he knows he can't go back to The Shire, so maybe Nana Mori's domain could be Valinor. It has been a respite for him.

Maybe all that is as much hubris and misplaced trust as Zerxus trying to reform Asmodeus. What I love about this choice is we don't know. The way things were before he made a deal was just win-lose for Orym. Now it has a whole other interesting layer of things that could happen.

Campaign 1 & Campaign 2 were about adventuring parties trying to save the world. Exandria Unlimited: Calamity was about an adventuring party who fails to save the world. Campaign 3 is not about success or failure as an objective. It's about making interesting choices and then following the consequences of those choices. This is theater where anything can happen. This is Shakespeare where everything going wrong is FUN. This isn't a definite tragedy, but they took off all the guard rails that said it couldn't be.

They don't have to win to be successful in the work of art they want to make. Marisha explicitly said to throw out expectations. I truly think the cast did. The world is something being done to them, not something they are causing to happen. And they're reacting to it in whatever sounds the most interesting with potential consequences they most want to see. It's a game of curiosity.

So a couple things can happen here: Either they don't all make it back, Orym is heartbroken and trying to fix it or dead. Or Orym gets what he wants and we see more of Nana Mori's nature and if she's more like Uk'otoa or Artagan. Either way Orym gets a new and interesting direction to go in.Far more interesting than succeeding and everything staying the same. And that's why I like the choice.

[tinycowboyart]

ooooh, I love Doc's new references!!! If you don't mind me asking, can I ask about his curse? I'm sorry if you've talked about it before, but I'm very curious. I fucking LOVE cursed characters, and they're SO MUCH FUN to play with, especially if you have a good DM (especially especially if you have a good DM who likes to "yes, and..." your crazy ideas, akjdsakdas.).

One of my current dnd characters is also cursed, and it's a lot of fun, especially because he's determined to hide it and pretend that he's fine for as long as he physically possibly can, and then keep lying to cover it up. (My boy is a swashbuckler with expertise in both persuasion and deception, and also happens to be more or less a compulsive liar.)

(Oh, speaking of swashbucklers, that one pirate NPC you drew and posted a while back? He is GORGEOUS. I'm about as (aesthetically) in love with him as an aroace person can be. Though I won't deny the fact that he's a pirate makes it even better...)

I’M SO HAPPY YOU ASKED, I’m always down to info dump about my characters!!!!

So Doc was born into a well know adventuring family, whose bloodline were blessed by the gods and divine, leading to everyone having innate magic of some kind, except when he was born, he didn’t get any. All throughout his childhood, he tried to learn magic in a lot of different ways, but to no avail. The lack of magic also led to him being sort of the disappointment child of the family.

Later in Docs life, a few years back from where we’re at in the campaign, he got pretty desperate and conducted an ancient and mysterious ritual, in a last ditch effort to gain any type of magic. The ritual backfired and he gained his curse! At least thats his conclusion, he thinks it’s either a curse of a magical disease of some kind.

Currently Doc absolutely despises magic, he doesn’t want anything cast on him, and he’s always saying whatever magic can do, he can do better with machinery and science. (He knows this isn’t true, but he’s stubborn and arrogant, and refuses to accept it)

Anyways the curse was only up to his wrist when the campaign started, he kept it well hidden from his party members

But then we went into “the nothing”. To understand what that is I have to explain the campaign setting, so; basically, around 500 years ago, a rift opened where the sun was, blocking it out. Then a darkness started pouring out of the rift. This darkness is filled with unimaginable horrors, and few survive going in there, the ones that do come back changed. (They are called the ashfallen, one of our party member, Il, is one)

This darkness, later dubbed the nothing, started expanding, and has been consuming the world slowly over centuries. Currently there’s only one continent left, called Ethnass, a newly discovered, wildly magical land thats now a culture clash filled with conflict

ANYWAYS, long story short, at the ripe level of 2, we went into the nothing. It was wild (and a long story, if anyones interested I’ll talk more about it)

When we eventually got out of the nothing, freshly traumatised, Doc’s curse had grown all the way up to under his shoulder. And when he tried to inspect or look at it, he got a deep feeling of dread and discomfort, like the hand wasn’t his own. So he’s covered it up for now, trying to find a way to get rid of it

Last session we actually met an NPC with the same looking curse, and Doc got to ask him a few questions (it was rushed, he’s going to ask more questions next session). He figured out the curse is called void decay, and it shows up when people find out too much, or get too close magically to the nothing, so I now know it’s connected to the nothing!

Anyways our DM is AMAZING, and such a good storyteller. I’m his biggest fan fr. The way he worldbuilds and drags our characters into the world is absolutely amazing, he really makes out characters connected to the world! We’ve played about 11 sessions so far and I’m so attached to the world and characters

[callmearcturus]

Out of curiosity, what would the premise of your dream Persona game be?

Well, let's see. What were the strong points of each game?

Persona 3 Portable: Girl Route. Team members have important relationships with each other instead of just orbiting the MC. Extremely strong theme. Structured in such a way that the player doesn't control what day they have a mandatory dungeon/plot event, making for better pacing. Best final boss. Best music. Greatest of the Best Friend guys. My favorite UX by far.

Persona 4 Golden: Best cast. Most interesting mystery. Was extremely queer, especially for the time. Most naturalistic writing. Best villain (not final boss). Easily the most polished script. Combat had the best balance of things to do and friction without being overcomplicated or simplistic.

Persona 5 Royal: Most interesting, sprawling location. Social link bonuses that matter. Jawdroppingly good bonus campaign. Best exploration. Only MC that fully feels like his own person. And I'll admit it, it has the best social links for NPCs.

So, the best Persona game would have:

A protagonist with as much personality as Joker but not gender locked. For the love of god just make a gender neutral protag.

Set it in another city that's based on a real place since it feels like real life designs better locations than Atlus does off the dome.

Honestly at this point I would love to see Persona do a game that doesn't take place in high school. I wanna see some young adults getting up to shit. If you absolutely need the school structure, then have it set in university/college. But the need for structure for the calendar can come from anything.

When everyone is cishet, the cast suffers. P5R proved it. (Okay, it's also because P5R literally has more teammates so no one gets properly developed but the cishetness does not help.) Lets get some queerness back in the cast, it does absolute wonders.

Morgana should be in it again. I don't know why or how, but I do know that carrying a cat around everywhere made Persona 5 was part of why I finished that fucking game.

I personally like the structure of having a central mystery with uncertain mechanics to solve, I think that's really engaging and helps with the episodic nature of Persona. However, once the mystery is solved, DO NOT ADD IN ANOTHER MASTERMIND CHARACTER WHO IS "REALLY" BEHIND IT ALL. JUST FUCKING STOP! GOD I HATE IT. Stop having a really cool set up and then deciding in the last 5 hours that a Mean God Did It All, I'm so DONE with that shit. Fuck Izanami and Fuck Yarblegarble.

While we're at it, if one more Persona game turns out to be a parable on how them kids are on their phones too much, I'm done.

Regarding music, either: A: Create multiple main battle themes so if they Fucking Suck again like in P4 it doesn't make your players want to scream by hour 30. B: Just use "Wiping All Out" again for the main battle theme. We're never going to surpass it, why not accept that.

LET THE PLAYER START A ROMANCE SEPARATE FROM SLINK RANKS. If I hit level 10 on someone and decide later I wanna date them, I should be able to do that. That way I can actually meet everyone, THEN decide who I wanna kiss.

Just gimme back Igor using shiny key of solomon shit to combine personae, fuck P5's edgelord bullshit. Also Margaret bc she was funny and also really hot and flirty.

Bring Maruki back just for funsies.

there we go, the perfect persona game

[edelgarfield]

god getting back into cr has suddenly made me super anxious abt the show's future. like obviously financially they're doing fine but im worried abt if there's going to be a campaign 4 & what it will look like.

i really want to start over again & be able to enjoy it from day 1. but there's a lot of talk abt them either switching to DH, which might be ok but it'd be different, changing the cast, not necessarily a bad thing but again different, or running shorter campaigns like D20, which would absolutely devastate me. like there's nothing wrong with that format, but I adore the years long campaigns & getting to tune in to see the same characters week after week. the problem obviously is that they struck gold with c2 and its characters, but c3 while still fun hasn't captured the same magic, which I think there's a few reasons for that, some of which are outside of cr's control.

like I'm definitely on board with more varied programming or even like, a 12 weeks on 4 weeks off structure for cr4, but I don't want to see cr become D20, like there's absolutely nothing wrong with D20, but I like cr bc it's cr. like i want to reexperience CR1 and CR2 again, which I know is setting myself up for failure, bc I was a different person back then & the world was different, but the idea of any dramatic change is just scary.

ultimately i know there's no point in worrying abt this bc past precedent would say cr3 has at least a year left & they'll do whatever they're going to do no matter what. I just hate change, & I hate not knowing what the future holds.

[maliro-t]

This is something I wrote a long time ago now, but I saw a post the other day that reminded me of it, so I wanted to add a couple of things with the context of c3.

A lot of people are frustrated with the divinity debate central to c3, myself included, but, while I'm going to be slightly punchy at the start here I promise this isn't just a long rant or critique; I'm genuinely interested in a lot of things going on narratively, and this is my attempt to reconcile those with a reoccurring central question that I find kind of lackluster.

So, Bell's Hells keep going round and round about whether the gods' existence inherently infringes upon the free will of the people, right? Which Ludinus would of course argue that it does. But like, given the way the world textually works, is this worth arguing about? This ongoing conflict is about whether the hierarchy created by the discrepancy of power between mortals and gods is an imposed and oppressive social class difference or a harmless (if occasionally dangerous) ecological one.

And frankly, I agree that it's basically just ecological. The first part of this post is proof enough of my position, and its one I took long before we got this deep into c3. But really, the fact that we've spent so much time trying to take the other side seriously, especially given their conduct, has been a bit tiring! I totally get the frustration lol, I got sick of the argument a year ago, largely because the characters never really seem to change their positions, and they never agree so it keeps coming back up as if this, their 20th time discussing it, will be the time they resolve it even though they're obviously all gonna try to stop Ludinus regardless.

Especially after Downfall, I really have been kind of rolling my eyes that our cast of main characters don't seem to be meaningfully impacted by that story very much, in terms of actually changing their perspectives. I think in the harshest terms it feels like they're kind of being flanderized, because this debate has been going on so long everyone kind of is going, 'Well, this is what this character believes. Time to perform it!' This was worse for me with some characters than others, and idk I don't actually want to spend that much time knocking RP decisions, but generally yeah, I was frustrated! Especially because Downfall was just really goddamn moving for me! And it's not even real history for me so why the heck was I changed more by it than people who exist in world?! Idk man!

But I don't think this campaign is doing nothing interesting with divinity, and I don't think the text is really contradicting past entries by being more skeptical of the gods either. I think Downfall really put some general concerns about that at ease for me because of what a clear and nuanced and empathetic examination of divinity it was- one that felt both consistent with past lore and really revelatory. So yeah, like the central question that the players are hung up on is one that I don't really care for that much, and it will resolve how it resolves, but I'm still along for the ride.

To look again at Vax & RQ's relationship, I think it's clear how strongly I feel the text illustrates a symbiotic relationship between them, not a controlling one- and specifically one that relies on the explicit free will of the mortal. But what is SUPER interesting to me is how people actually view that relationship in world, especially in the end. I've talked about this before because it's one of my favorite things in the whole three campaign saga, but the greatest tragedy of Vax's fate to me is that Vox Machina unequivocally blames the Raven Queen for it.

It's Vax very tentatively saying, without details, that he's back because the Raven Queen allowed him to be and Vex smiling relieved, saying "She's my new favorite."

It's Vax, without giving details, implying that he'll die when the task is complete, and Vex saying "She's not my favorite anymore."

It's "it's not fair," and "I do not accept this," and "I feel like she's taking part of me away," and "Fuck that raven bitch!" and "I feel like we should destroy [her temple]," and "I wanted to hurt her for hurting me."

It's Vax never quite saying out loud that he wanted this. That it was a gift she gave him in his desperation, and one he gave back to her in her loneliness. It doesn't matter to all of them that Vax died days before she came for him in the end, that he was disintegrated by the very evil they all dedicated themselves to overthrowing, that he was only there at all by her grace, that the circumstances of that are something he chose. It only matters that she was in front of them to be blamed for the unfairness of the world. And the Raven Queen takes their hatred without protest- she doesn't even really try to justify herself, because whether or not they understand or approve or forgive doesn't matter to her. "This is not for you," she says. She has always been feared without the attempt to understand. She has always been blamed in anger by people who will never know her, because no one could ever know her, and the people who did once forgot her name and then died excruciating deaths in a war over a mantle she inherited.

It's her priestesses in c3 saying "We are in mourning," and Keyleth, scenes later, saying "I have been angry for 30 years."

I bring all of this up because I see so much of Ludinus' argument as kind of this same question of "fairness" that Vox Machina broaches, with the difference being that they are not obsessed enough with that anger-or power hungry enough-to decide that the whole system should be destroyed. And because they also rely upon several gods whom they have not forsaken like they did RQ- whose role at least Keyleth has in time come to understand (without divesting herself of her anger, of course).

But it is the nature of these vast, unknowable creatures to be cursed and scorned and forsaken and blamed, especially unfairly.

This is why Dorian brought such a refreshing point of view to the circular Bell's Hells argument to me, even if I don't actually think he's overall right. What's different about Dorian is he's actually bringing personal experience of a really interesting kind to the table! He is someone who, unlike even the victims of the faithful in Issylra, has had several personal experiences with a very particular Divinity which have left him absolutely worse off, even going all the way back to the original EXU (which I'm sure he now looks at knowing Lolth was trying to manipulate him: he says to Orym in Zadash, "[If I'd put that crown on my head], I wouldn't be here right now," even if his instinct is still to make risky deals with divinity he distrusts to protect his people, but that's a whole different post). Dorian watched someone he loves do things she absolutely did not want to do under the sway of a goddess who decided she needed her as her own- that killing the people who might get in the way of her divine influence was the only way to protect herself in a war that the people she was killing-including Dorian- didn't even really know about at that point.

So, it's totally understandable for him to come into this going, 'That was wrong. I was wronged. I want someone to pay for what was taken from me. I don't think anyone should have the power to do that.' What complicates it, however (and I of course won't go so far as to say that I agree with her methods lol), is that the only reason that happened at all is because Lolth was under threat by people trying to exterminate her and her people. But of everyone in the group, Dorian's perspective is closest to that of actual Aeorians, whose bitterness sprung from a world destroyed by a war between beings that seemed to think that 'the entire world' was an acceptable amount of collateral damage.

So, there's this ongoing disconnect between gods who won't explain themselves to mortals who need someone to blame that I find really, really interesting- far more interesting than the question of if gods have too much power, or if the divine gate is really enough to protect mortals from vampiric gods that are leeching off a world that isn't their own in the first place. It's a communication issue, at its core.

I'm not sure if it's something the characters will ever look hard enough at to make it a more obvious central talking point, but textually that's actually what feels like is going on and that's fascinating to me!

Corellon, in episode 107, in the midst of that undeniably beautiful, poignant hour says, "You see, something that I've realized, something that I keep seeing is (laughs) our children continue to rebel, all the time. Hundreds, thousands, many, many years continuous. We are in this perpetual cycle, (laughs) and it seems that our presence, be it either here, behind a big door, isn't doing anything. There is something innate. You want us out. "

And the thing is- he is absolutely right. He doesn't even bring up whether the gods are in the wrong or if they have too much power or if they're using it wrong- it's just completely not about that. What he observes and feels trapped by is that the system as it is set up now- that heirarchy, that power difference, that distance- it causes mortals and gods alike to play a role that they ultimately cannot content themselves with, whether it's unjust or not. The addition of the divine gate, which was intended to protect Exandria, makes things worse! It makes that distance greater! It makes physical (or perhaps metaphysical lol, idk how magic works) that inability to understand the divine. It makes them appear to be hiding, which some of them certainly are- just look at Ioun, for one!

Does that mean that the gods fleeing Exandria would actually be to everyone's (or anyone's) benefit? TBD! But given threads running all the way back to campaign one I certainly understand his instinct to make a change.

To quote Cassida in Downfall:

"Before, in that chamber, I was told there are things I could never understand. I am going to do as you have asked. But I will ask a favor in return. Make up your mind if I am given to understand this world or not."

They cannot understand us. They must understand us to be satisfied with how things are. Both are true. Nothing is solved. It's an impossible gap to close.

And I can't wait to hear what the Raven Queen has to say about it. :)

Because I’ve had all day Raven Queen brain:

Another thing that is really interesting to me is Vax’s relationship to fate, which gets interpreted in a few different ways even in game, and I think it’s pretty complex. I’m thinking about it here slightly…cosmologically, I guess, in terms of how “fate-touched” works in the big picture, although all of that is kind of necessarily in relation to the way it exists for Vax (et al.) personally.

On a meta level, Vox Machina’s story is a literal game of chance, so everything might feel like it’s led up to a particular outcome, but ultimately that’s dependent on the way we make sense of the story once we can see all its parts. 

And I think that’s kind of what Vax is doing himself! In Duskmeadow, after he communes with The Raven Queen, Vax expresses to Keyleth and Pike his newfound faith in his role as champion, something he sees as meant to be (transcript under the cut). He brings up the broom theft and the Umbrasyl battle as things that happened to Vox Machina that don’t make sense, but which are fundamental to their journey, saying “What else is it?” Why else are we still alive? It has to have been for something. It’s a way he can justify his situation to himself, to put aside the fear and trepidation that has been eating him alive for weeks. He believes it’s fate, but in part because he needs to.

And that’s obvious in the way he disbelievingly and emphatically says to Keyleth that this is not a path that he wanted when she implies otherwise. He initiated the deal, but he doesn’t completely understand it, and he didn’t really know how to handle what it meant for a long time–it derailed pretty much all of his plans! But at the same time, he says, “Everything has led to it,” because he needs to believe in that for it to make sense to him.

But that doesn’t really…make it true though, right? It’s no less profound to him for that, but it isn’t the only explanation. The way The Raven Queen defines a “fate-touched” is as someone who bends fate, not just someone who is fated, not just someone who has a destiny. In The Endless Atheneum, she says, “You, Fate-Touched, you are the embodiment of this truth. All mortal life has potential with or without the gods. We offer some paths, but it’s up to you to decide if they are the right ones for you”. Again, a pretty important part of Vax’s relationship with The Raven Queen is that both of the deals that he makes with her involve him as a willing participant, not a pawn. Most significantly, with the first one he makes the offer. He doesn’t know what he’s offering, sure, but he’s the one who reached out. So, it was his choice–his own exertion of agency–that set him on this path. His own bending of fate. And it changed everything!

To return to Duskmeadow, the way Keyleth responds to his pretty definitive declaration faith is fascinating!! She spends a while (before this even) trying to convince him to kind of…mentally separate himself from the reverence that goes with faith and divine inspiration. And I think a lot of that is rooted in her own insecurities around fate and destiny and gods and the universe, so some of what she says feels like a kneejerk reaction to her own fear, but she also is kind of right! I think Keyleth is certainly wrong that Vax wanted this path, whether consciously or unconsciously, but she’s right to point out that he had control. I love that she calls The Raven Queen an opportunist–Matt basically explains as much in the campaign wrap-up when they talk about the deal in the tomb. The Raven Queen absolutely took advantage of Vax’s offer, turning it into something completely other than what he expected, largely for her own benefit. But he still had to be the one to open the door for her to do that. By her definition, “fate-touched” function as a kind of intermediary between the gods and your average mortal, picking which path to follow where individuals on either side of that line can’t fully, which includes her. Another example of this I love is the uncertainty she expresses about his path right after he gets disintegrated. She really doesn’t know what’s going to happen to him, or the rest of Vox Machina! Instead, she can only offer another deal, to give him the tools to navigate the storm. He has to be the one to choose to use them.

(And that’s a side effect of the way the game works of course: the DM offers paths for the story to follow, but the players are the ones to pick where to go)

So, the way The Raven Queen stood to benefit from taking him on as a champion was that she got to be in the room. It gave her a modicum of influence over which path got picked, even if she wasn’t the one personally steering. In that way at least, their relationship really is a “fine partnership”, a framing that Keyleth encourages before the Umbrasyl fight.

The worship angle and the partnership take aren’t mutually exclusive here, and imo kind of help each other along. There is a great deal of faith and reverence between them, which grew beautifully past that initial fear, and I don’t think they would have been much use to each other if Vax hadn’t so fully believed in her. But it wasn’t quite The Raven Queen dictating his fate, or anyone else’s. That much was ultimately up to him.

Keep reading

[grailfinders]

Fate and Phantasms #268: Space Ishtar

Today on Fate and Phantasms, we've got a complicated build! Specifically, we're building Ashtart, Space Ishtar, and Ashtart Origin... all in a single build. You'd think building a sith lord, a bounty hunter, and a literal universe all in a single build would be hard, but it turns out the answer is Horizon Walker Ranger. Plus a bit of Twilight Cleric for extra space effects. Again, we apologize for any formatting issues, they should be fixed by the Calamity build this Sunday.

Check out their build breakdown below the cut, or their character sheet here!

Next up: Two aces, two eights.

Also it's time to announce the winners of the raffle for this year's viewer choice builds! We'll have the builds for Ophelia Pharmacy and Morgan Le Fay ready for the anniversary next month, so stay tuned!

Race and Background

The Space Ishtars... are not humans! For once! They're the shattered fragments of a dead god. So much less complicated, right? But we need force powers and I doubt we'll ever have an excuse to use them again, so we're making them the Astral Plane-dwelling Githyanki. This gives them +2 Wisdom and +1 Dexterity, as well as proficiency in Survival and a couple weapons (which you'd get anyway). They also get Githyanki Psionics, letting them cast an invisible Mage Hand at will. Plus, you cast Jump at third level and Misty Step at 5th level, both once a day.

We're trying to start with Ashtart here since she's ascension 1, so that means we're making her a Space Shinsengumi Operative, from the Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica. Don't ask what the Space Shinsengumi were doing there, it's just going to cause a bigger headache. Anyway, this gives her proficiency in Deception and Stealth, as well as an expanded spell list we'll barely make use of.

Ability Scores

Dexterity is number 1. One of you uses short swords, the other a gun, and none of you have medium armor on. After that is Wisdom- #3 tends to favor magical bullshit, and that's what we're casting with. Plus, if you're going to hunt bounties, you gotta find 'em first. Charisma is also pretty high, you've got the devil's sugar after all. Honestly that just sounds like a suburban way to say cocaine. Either way it makes your charisma good. Your Constitution is honestly a little lower than I'd want it. If only universe-sized attacks can affect you, that's... a lot of HP. Your Strength is pretty low though, we're just not using it. By process of elimination, we're dumping Intelligence. You might be from the future, but you're just as bad with technology as any other rinface.

Class Levels

Ranger 1: Starting off as a ranger has its perks. You get proficiency in Strength and Dexterity saves, plus three skills. Athletics will make up for the low strength, Investigation to use futuristic gadgets to scan a crime scene, and Perception to shoot good. When you're the size of a universe, you have to be good at picking out details. You also gain a Favored Enemy, and since Ashtart Origin's all about destroying the servantverse, we'll be picking up 2 humanoids for every option here. I'd love to dig through my entire library just to see what the most common servant races are, but really you should just pick the best options for your campaign anyway. This feature gives you advantage on survival and intelligence checks involving your favored enemy, as well as an additional language. Since space isn't a Natural Explorer option, we're doing with Deft Explorer instead for doubled proficiency in Survival. Tracking people down on a single planet is hard enough, let alone when you get space involved.

Ranger 2: Second level fighters get a fighting style, and since Ashtart's up first we're getting Two-Weapon Fighting so you can dual-wield. We also learn some Spells for the first time that you cast with Wisdom. Pick up Detect Magic for another futuristic scanner and Jump for more force leaps. I know you get one for free next level, but now you can use it more often. Preparedness is key in space, at least according to Pryce and Carter's Deep Space Survival Procedure and Protocol Manual.

Ranger 3: At third level you can finally turn your sabers into lightsabers thanks to the Horizon Walker's Planar Warrior feature, spending your bonus action to activate your sword against a specific creature. The next time you hit them this turn you deal extra damage and it all turns into force damage too. You can also Detect Portals within a mile of you once a short rest so you'll know when humanity's last master enters the servantverse. Or when your Amazones package arrives, either-or. you also get a whole lotta spells thanks to your horizon walking and primal awareness. PA spells can also be cast once day for free, so you won't have to use a spell slot for speak with animals when you crash land on that junk planet with all the kitties on it. you also get protection from evil and good so your goddess core protects you from possession and all that, and you can light up your lightsabers even more for a searing smite, which'll keep burning your enemy if they fail a constitution save!

ranger 4: use your first ability score improvement to bump up your dexterity so your sabers find their mark more often!

Ranger 5: Fifth level rangers get an Extra Attack each action (not your bonus action), as well as second level spells. Your Primal Awareness spell is Beast Sense, letting you see and hear through a willing beast for up to an hour. I don't remember anything like this in Saber Wars II, but you could probably flavor it as a surveillance drone. You also get Misty Step which you'd get anyway and Locate Object. We're arguably still working on the first ascension right now, but we might as well get a present for the second ascension as we go. Stick a tracking device on your foes and you'll know their location if they're within 1000 feet of you!

Ranger 6: Sixth level rangers get another round of Favored Enemies as well as Deft Explorer, giving you Roving speed. A roving ranger has 5' of extra movement, and you gain a climbing and swimming speed. Your experience in zero gravity helps you walk on walls and swim through the air.

Ranger 7: Seventh level horizon walkers have an Ethereal Step, letting you incorporeate for a turn as a bonus action once per short rest. This lets you move in any direction and pass through most objects, though you can't interact with the material plane again until the spell ends. You can also Enhance Ability, giving yourself advantage on one kind of skill check. Choose Charisma to lay on the devil's sugar, Dexterity for extra flips in your swordfighting, or Wisdom to track your mark even easier. It's quite versatile.

ranger 8: ok, enought of the first ascension, let's get that second ascension! use this asi to get the fighting initiate feat for some archery skills- that's a +2 on all your ranged weapon attack rolls! you also get the land's stride, so you can move through difficult terrain super easy.

cleric 1: wow, we're speedin right along to third ascension already! bumpin over to twilight cleric gives you a whole new list of spells (check the phb to see how multiclassing works), plus you have supercharged darkvision with Eyes of the Night for 300' of darkvision and the ability to share it with other creatures once a day, or with a spell slot. you'll also always shoot first thanks to your vigilant blessing, giving one creature advantage on their next initiative. good bounty hunters always shoot first, at least until the remakes! pick up guidance to be good at everything with a +1d4 on your next skill check, light for a proper light saber, and thaumaturgy to act like the god you are. you also get first level spells like faerie fire and sleep, but what we really want is command to lead the shinsengumi, detect evil and good to find your other fragments, and spiritual weapon for ashtart origin's weird ball thing that you can attack with as a bonus action.

ranger 9: ninth level rangers get third level spells, and you get a lot of them. your universal translator now lets you speak to plants. you also get more speed with the haste spell, doubling your speed, giving you an extra action (with caveats), and a +2 bonus to your ac! plus, you can turn your sword into an elemental weapon for an even hotter lightsaber.

ranger 10: tenth level rangers are tireless, giving you a bonus action that'll cover you in star stuff for some temporary hp, and you lose exhaustion on short rests! You can also go ghost with nature's veil to turn invisible for a round as a bonus action proficiency times a day. the universe is mostly nothing anyway, so just spread out a bit.

Cleric 2: Speaking of spreading out, second level twilight clerics can use their Channel Divinity option Twilight Sanctuary to cover yourself in twilight for a minute. Whenever a creature ends its turn in your universe, you can give it temporary HP or end an effect charming or frightening it. Your goddess core will protect you from the more common status effects. You can also use it to Turn Undead, and you get one channel divinity use a short rest.

Cleric 3: Third level clerics get second level spells like the freebies Moonbeam and See Invisibility. Also, pick up Hold Person for a force choke, and Lesser Restoration to cover up any status effects your Twilight Sanctuary won't take care of.

Ranger 11: Eleventh level horizon walkers can make Distant Strikes, letting you teleport up to 10 feet each attack. In addition, if you attack two different creatures you can attack a third as well! You can also protect yourself from anything less than a universe-ending threat with Gaseous Form. It prevents you from attacking or casting spells, but you can fly and move through small gaps, plus you have resistance to all nonmagical damage.

Ranger 12: to help with that literally universal protection, use this ASI to pick up the Tough feat for 30 extra HP now, and an extra 2 every time you level up.

Ranger 13: Thirteenth level rangers get fourth level spells like your Primal Awareness spell Locate Creature. It also has a limit of 1,000 feet, but you don't have to know what they've got on them to do it. Plus, this one lasts an hour, not ten minutes. you also pick up Guardian of Nature. pick the primal beast option for Ashtart, increasing your walking speed, giving you advantage on strength-based attacks (don't use this part), and making your melee weapons deal force damage. for Spishtar and Ashtart Origin, check out the great tree. you get temporary HP, make constitution saves with advantage as well as dex and wisdom based attacks, and the area around you is difficult terrain for enemies. also you can use Banishment to yeet people back to their home plane if they're not already there. the astral plane is only for you. and the other yous, I guess.

Ranger 14: a fourteenth level ranger can Vanish as a bonus action. it's literally just letting you hide easier. you also can't be found nonmagically, but this is the point where most spellcasters have ninth level spells, people are probably finding you magically. on the plus side, you get another favored enemy! so... yeah, that's this level.

Ranger 15: okay, back on the "I will never die" train. your last goody from your subclass is Spectral Defense, letting you give yourself resistance to an attack's damage as a reaction. no limit on this one either. You can also use Freedom of Movement, if you want to spend a fourth level spell slot on something you can already do as a bonus action. I guess use this if you get arrested in the astral plane? ah well, doubling down usually isn't a terrible idea.

Ranger 16: use your last ASI to finally give Spishtar a break with the Crossbow Expert feat. Now you can attack with a crossbow multiple times an action, you can use ranged attacks in melee, and you can get a shot in with a hand crossbow even while dual-wielding.

Ranger 17: our final level is actually a pretty spicy one this time, since seventeenth level rangers get fifth level spells. you can Commune with Nature to learn the general layout of the planet you're on, and you also get the closest thing D&D has to a spaceship, the Teleportation Circle. It takes a minute to set up, but it creates a portal to any other teleportation circle on this plane of existence for a round, and you can create a permanent one wherever you like by casting it once a day for a year. we end this build with one last spell, but we're letting you make a choice. pick up Conjure Volley for extra firepower for Spishtar, or Steel Wind Strike for some impressive lightsaber action on Ashtart's end. either way, it'll be a bloodbath.

Pros and Cons

Pros:

with almost 200 hp, options for healing, and a ton of ways to cut down incoming damage, this build can be incredibly tanky when it wants to be. and if you're ever in a sticky situation, you have plenty of options to get out of there and escape to fight another day, prolonging the season finale yet again.

being three people also gives you quite a bit of variety in a fight, with options for melee, ranged, and magical combat!

outside of combat you are fantastic at tracking down enemies, especially if they happen to be humanoid.

Cons:

having so much variety makes it hard to focus on just one kind of combat, so you're not as powerful as someone who just does melee, or ranged, or magic.

your concentration saves are also pretty bad, so expect Ashtart's hastes and elemental weapons to end earlier than you'd like.

having so many redundancies packed in means you probably won't run out of an important part of your kit, but it also makes a couple of level-ups less impactful. like how level 17 gives you practically nothing to work with.

[bestworstcase]

It's true, Cinder needs to find trust in something that'll give her the security to disengage from the absolute extremes of destruction to something more balanced, something I don't think she and Salem can negotiate between them in of themselves? That's the main conceit your posts seem to imply that I don't think works, because they're on a toxic loop that needs boundaries, and RWBY constantly shows that two person relationships exist in the context of, and benefit from, the community around it.

mm the way i see it, the most pressing issue for both of them is that they simply don’t have anyone else. cinder kinda, sorta had emerald, but em bounced and frankly i don’t think em would have been able to speak to the heart of cinder’s problem if she tried, because at the end of the day 1. em has moral qualms cinder doesn’t, and 2. cinder’s fear of salem is wildly overshadowed by the things she WANTS from salem, so emerald’s position that salem is terrifying and dangerous is just… like… cinder knows that and she’s decided it’s a worthwhile risk.

in another story cinder might have an out in the form of the heroes making overtures—they get a glimpse of how bad her situation is from emerald and offer to protect her if she leaves, that sort of thing—but rwby doesn’t really go in for the whole magnanimous noble heroes thing. sure, they’ll give their enemies chances to BACK OFF, and when the villains do flip they’re willing to provisionally accept that. but they’re not, and they’ve never been, especially driven to “save” villains. this is a story where two protagonists shanked an abusive dickhead who refused to leave them alone, and nobody on Team Good blinked twice. there’s a pragmatism to their compassion, and cinder has proved over and over again that she is too dangerous to mount a serious campaign to ‘rescue’ her from her own choices.

(also ruby was at “silver glare blast cinder on sight” even before cinder murdered penny.)

likewise salem is—well, salem. one hundred percent of her enemies believe she’s an immortal monster who can’t be reasoned with because she’s driven by insatiable desire for destruction and/or apocalyptic suicidal ideation, and her remaining allies at this point are 1. a lunatic who slavishly worships her as a goddess of destruction, 2. a cynical nihilistic mercenary whose attitude is “welp can’t beat her might as well fall in line,” and 3. cinder, who is too busy trying to drag emotional validation of salem to be properly terrified of her.

their relationship is a toxic, abusive dumpster fire and unfortunately also the best relationship that either of them *has* right now. (with the usual corollary that summer remains a potential wildcard here.)

and it bears repeating that—all jokes about them power of friendshipping each other aside—i don’t foresee them fixing each other so much as i think 1. salem’s foremost problem lies in believing that no one will ever perceive her as anything but a soulless grimm, so why bother even trying, and 2. cinder is embroiled in this one-sided emotional warfare for salem’s attention/validation/indulgence that salem is on the cusp of becoming aware of, and therefore 3. cinder fall is currently the only character in the cast who can pose a credible challenge to salem’s self-perception and the apathetic cruelty it engenders.

there’s this emotional logjam happening with salem where she is on a path of total destruction because she has been hopeless for so long that she cannot conceive of any other way to move forward, and it isn’t in her nature to be able to stop moving forward. breaking that logjam, giving her even the smallest, tiniest spark of hope that things could be different, is what will make it possible for her to at least try to find a different path.

and, like, we’re talking about a woman whose first instinct when the gods hurt her and she decided to DO SOMETHING about it was to… go out and rally people to her cause. her isolation is a symptom of apathetic despair. fundamentally if the inciting force that gets salem to turn away from this path is cinder cracking through the walls of “no one will listen, why bother” then the obvious next move is for salem to break her silence. to stop letting ozma’s narrative define her.

like, at this point i’m positive a ceasefire or enemy-of-my-enemy truce is gonna happen, but i’m 50/50 on which side the offer will originate from because, as i see it, if salem can clear the enormous first hurdle of finding enough hope to try, it’s pretty likely that she would land on “your gods want us all dead and unlike you i have an actual plan to defeat them once and for all, let’s talk.”

which is to say, loosely the sequence i anticipate here is:

1. cinder continues escalating the volatile/defiant behavior while salem tries to maneuver around it and fails, pulling their dynamic further out of balance

2. until salem figures out that the root of cinder’s problem isn’t frustrated hunger for power, it’s all this festering emotional junk that cinder can’t or won’t talk about, at which point salem has to confront what it *means* that this girl she’s done nothing but hurt and use is nevertheless looking to her for emotional fulfillment

3. which by extension incites a serious reckoning with the apathetic despair she’s imprisoned herself in, and—salem being salem—a reckoning like that DEMANDS actionable change. (salem isn’t a “ruminate on my mistakes for a year before finding the wherewithal to apologize” kind of character, she is a “i’ve realized that treating you this way was a critical mistake that cost me your loyalty and i am going to announce this in front of my whole inner circle before taking immediate, dramatic steps to correct my error” person, and while that was primarily a tactical decision on her part i see no reason to think that her response upon realizing she’s made an emotional mistake would differ significantly.)

4. cinder goes ???!??!? because she is in no way prepared to deal with salem doing this and; her emotional turmoil probably leads to outbursts, and as we’ve seen already cinder’s frustrated outbursts often take the form of questioning salem’s decisions, which potentially makes cinder the first character to just come right out and ask salem what the hell she’s really trying to accomplish

5. i cannot conceive of a scenario in which cinder hears “the gods want us to grovel for the privilege of existing” and doesn’t immediately decide that killing the gods sounds fucking swell.

6. which in turn reinforces salem’s emotional swerve towards believing that it is, at least, POSSIBLE that somebody might listen to her—and therefore that it is worth trying—and that creates an emotional foundation from which the narrative can build to:

7. salem decides she’s done letting ozma make her the scapegoat for the cruelty and tyranny of gods he serves and, never mind the sword of destruction for now, her ends will be better served by getting more people on her side. “your faith in mankind was not misplaced; when banded together, unified by a common enemy, they are a noticeable threat…” <- like. these are salem’s own words and she has got one hell of a common enemy in her back pocket.

8. while the brutal reality of her past actions and the narrative ruby constructed when she revealed salem’s existence to the world are significant obstacles, they are not insurmountable ones—and besides the looming danger represented by the gods salem can probably also leverage vale surviving the fall of beacon and mistral taking the skirmish at haven more or less in stride despite having been abandoned by its own allies (thanks james!) to her advantage here. if summer rose is a) working for her and b) presentable for public appearances, so much the better, but even without that i think salem *could* get a coalition going if she exerted herself.

so *waves vaguely* it’s… i can see cinder being what salem needs to have a shot at breaking the cycle, and vice versa, and if they can clear that hurdle salem… like… she has this impulse towards movement-building, you know? she’s not like ozma, who’s wasted thousands of years trying to ‘unite’ humanity by [checks notes] molding a few hand-picked individuals per generation into lone guardians because his own natural inclination runs toward knight errantry. salem rallied armies to take the fight to the gods. salem heard ozma bemoaning how divided humanity had become and went okay have you considered… that we could… do something about that…? hjscvjk

i’m talking in circles a bit here hdhdjs sorry the point is: salem is desperately lonely because she’s convinced that trying to make connections with people is pointless, and cinder is obsessed with power because she’s convinced that she’ll never be free or safe without it.

what salem most needs is to be confronted by someone who engages with her as a person—not a monster, not a goddess—and right now, by dint of seeing her as a dangerous but fallible rival/mentor, cinder is in a position to BE that person. their toxic convoluted dumpster fire of a relationship can only exist as it does because cinder isn’t terrified of the “monster” or in awe of the “goddess.”

likewise, what cinder most needs is for someone to see the lacerating pain at the center of everything else—the terror of powerlessness and the desperate rage it fuels—and validate it. she needs SOMEBODY to, figuratively, look at the shell-shocked fifteen-year-old girl with blood on her hands and say it’s okay, you were protecting yourself, you deserved to fight back, it’s okay. and… salem hasn’t seen past the power hunger yet, but as soon as she does? she’ll get it. of course she gets it; she WAS that girl. she’s spent millions of years trying to escape being that girl.

and for both of them, getting these things—that’s not what fixes them, that’s not what heals them. it’s just the spark that shows them the possibility of change. in salem’s case at least i can’t see her not lunging for that possibility as soon as she knows it’s there; and… like, if salem makes this genuine effort to change, then cinder has very little incentive to leave her, because that effort would necessarily have to involve salem relinquishing the abuse.

SIDEBAR. i am also thinking it’s… pretty likely that salem’s next move is hauling cinder back to vale, rather than going to rendezvous with tyrian + mercury in vacuo; 1. salem is clearly getting nervous about the crown still being missing, 2. it’s in salem’s best interest to give cinder something to distract her from the other maidens, and pointing cinder at the vault only she can open is an obvious way to do that, 3. vacuo is like half a dozen powder kegs stacked on top of each other and tyrian has got so many matches that adding salem and cinder to the mix feels like risking threat fatigue, and 4. 99% summer rose is stationed at beacon and she’s about due for a reveal.

and if that ends up being the case, hypothetically the lion’s share of this sort of mutual-rekindling-of-hope and subsequent change arc(s) would play out in the context of salem+cinder… searching for the relic of choice in the rubble of beacon academy… which would SURE BE A WAY TO DO THE CHOICE ARC WOULDNT IT

[righteousinadversity]

Hi for the ask game, can I ask a reverse question? What are tropes/ships you really like, tropes/ships that you can tolerate, tropes/ships that are instant no's? Is there a trope you do like, but the way it is handled makes you not want to risk it anymore?

Oh, this should be fun!

Tropes/Ships I absolutely adore I am pretty cool with any which way ships other than Wangxian go, as long as they're not in my hard no, so I don't think there's any I really adore?

BAMF Wei Wuxian: Gods I love this so much. Wei Wuxian is canonically such a badass, and fics that celebrate that are just absolute gold!

No War AU: Look, I just want Wangxian to slowly fall in love without everything going to hell. Night hunting, taking names, being adorable in love. This goes as a staple for all no golden-core transfer, no sunshot campaigns, wens aren't assholes, etc.

WWX is adored and respected: I am a huge simp for the man, so really that's not a goddamn surprise. This ties in with the no war AU, and also any AU that happen not in the canon universe.

Post-Canon Fluff: The established relationship between Wangxian is absolutely the best. Both of them are so in love with each other, going on dates, just being so fond of each other.

Rogue Cultivator WWX: Same with any fic that has him not being raised by Jiangs. I am a particular simp for BSSR raising WWX. There is also so much potential for Wangxian fluff! I don't think I have a list for tropes or ships I tolerate, I am basically good with anything not on my hard no list.

Tropes/Ships That Are Instant No's These tropes are absolute no's for me, and even if they are paired with tropes I adore, I will probably avoid them.

Twin Prides of Yunmeng: And all variations. Absolutely don't care for it. Literally, a huge red sign for me to turn away.

Any trope sympathetic to JC/YZY/JGY: I have no love for any of these characters. This means JC needs a hug, good parent YZY, Good Guy JGY etc are all tropes I avoid.

OOC WWX: Every variation of it. Weak WWX (Specifically, helpless WWX in the entire fic, not like one scene). WWX with self-esteem issues is a huge no. WWX who blames himself or drowns in guilt? Don't care for it. WWX who thinks himself unworthy of LWJ's love? Nope. Oblivious WWX? Don't want it at all.

LWJ fucks: Yeah just... no. The same goes for WWX.

JC/anyone, especially WQ: Look, if JC is shipped with WQ, LXC, NHS, WN, LJY etc, it's almost guaranteed that it's going to cast him in a good light. So I avoid them instantly.

Any fic with unnecessary angst between Wangxian is also huge no's for me.

Tropes That I do Like, But Avoid due to Popular takes on them Fics like these are ones I do like but am very picky abt their execution, so nowadays I only read ones recced by friends and people I trust.

Time Travel: Yeah so I really do like Time travel fics, but they all usually end up with tropes previously mentioned in the instant no's so... I want a settled WWX to be stuck back in time (if post canon WWX chooses to travel back in time, it's an instant no) without OOC JC or Good Parent YZY. I want LWJ to travel back in time, and fluster his husband as he does in the future. Basically, I just want Wangxian without all the annoying side characters. Ooh also, WQ and WN being alive and well!!!

DarkJi: A lot of these fics just devolve into OOC WWX, which as I have mentioned, I dislike very much. Also, I'll probably avoid manipulative LWJ who solely wants to keep WWX as his too, bcoz, for me, LWJ is thrilled to be able to be friends with WWX, and wants WWX to feel no obligation to return his feelings or be his. That being said, pls give me the canon LWJ who turned his sword against his own sect elders who sought to hurt WWX, but also left with them bcoz WWX told him to. Give me LWJ who will cut JC if he looks at his husband wrong.

BM era Fix it fics, including Yiling Wei AUs: Yeah... this one's pretty obvious if you know me. I have ranted multiple times abt this on here. But almost every fix-it is either, the sects didn't know, JC is a caring brother, the Jins are the only evil, WWX needs to be saved from himself, all of which makes me want to gauge my eyes out. Give me WWX and the Wens living as a family without JC butting in. Give me them growing as a community without the help of the sects, because they didn't help. Give me Yiling Wei Sect that stands on its own. Give me WWX living his farmer's fantasy. Give me A-Yuan growing with his family. Give me Wangxian with slow falling in love.

However, I should say that, at the end of the day, I'm a lot more concerned about the characterization than the tropes. I don't think I'd be this picky if there wasn't such prevalent fanon going around but 🤷‍♀️ It is what it is.

This is especially true abt WWX and LWJ's characterization. I am very picky about that, because there are so rare few that don't fall into fanon characterization.

[tunedtostatic]

The line I was thinking of, before I went back and relistened, was "I was like oh it's guilt actually, that's what guilt does to your brain" - plus the overall context, but that was the bit I remembered. What I can't get over upon relistening is that this paragraph that SCREAMS "Trent Ikithon:"

"But, the, John's like, 'It's a shame the world is the way it is' thing really reminds me of {?? Utena character} in both his creepiness and his, you know, 'Well, this is the way the world and the universe that exists, incidentally the one that I created by my laws and that I've trapped you all in, and that I've sealed you into by your guilt and sin for a thing that I manipulated you into doing.'"

…isn't just about the Locked Tomb, it was a comparison to a whole nother show as well. When you read about real life cults and abuse and domestic violence, one thing that jumps out is how numerous the similarities are between one one high-control group and another despite the variety between them. Listening to this part of a podcast that's talking about a show on an episode that's talking about a book and going "Oh my god this is so relevant to this other Dungeons & Dragons actual play" is case in point for that also being true of sharply-observed fiction on abuse. Trent Ikithon is not the first or the last to use his playbook.

"(...)and the thing is, when you're in, you know, an abusive situation, guilt and shame and terror are some of the things that keep you in. (Crosstalk: Yeah.) And, you know, often it's--your own mistakes can get very much weaponized against you and the way you feel bad about them can be very much weaponized against you(...)"

This makes me thinks of the meta posts I've seen about Astrid and Jester after the dinner scene.

LAURA: I'm going to whisper over to her as we're walking. I'm sorry if you thought I was giving you a hard time earlier. I thought maybe you were really mean like Trent, but now I'm feeling really guilty about it because I don't think you are. So I want to apologize if I came across as rude. I feel very bad about it. MATT: She doesn't necessarily lean back, but then speaks quietly towards your direction. "You don't know anything about me." LAURA: No. MATT: "You do not know what I've done." LAURA: Well, I know some of what you've done, and I know that Caleb cares deeply for you, so you can't be all bad. MATT: No response.

Astrid and Eadwulf are caught in this contradictory world where they have to say that what they do is justified and for the good of the Empire, as they do at the dinner, but they simultaneously are filled with guilt and shame and believe that anyone in the outside world would (and should) distrust them and condemn them for what they've done.

(...)"it's impossible for you to think critically or clearly about it because the overwhelming feeling of shame and terror, just, uh, overrides everything else, overrides your entire brain, and so you continue to make mistakes in an effort to either deny or fall into that oblivion. Um, you're either, it's either not true or the guilt is so severe that you have to throw yourself into Hell, [chuckles] neither of which are actually the way things get better."

Meanwhile this makes me think of Caleb at the beginning of the campaign, when he is drowning in guilt and shame and, though he's still fighting to keep moving and keep his physical body alive, in his day-to-day emotional life he's indeed basically cast himself into Hell (another metaphor literalized in the Locked Tomb series, but imo applies pretty well to Caleb's inner world!)

It would be tempting to say that Astrid and Eadwulf live in the "it's not true" while Caleb is the "the guilt is so severe that you have to throw yourself into Hell," but really, both of them exist on both "sides." Astrid and Eadwulf seem to have some amount of belief in their work as scourgers, but clearly know that much of it is horrific. Caleb is drowning in guilt and horror, but he's also putting all he's got into his plan to literally break reality and MAKE a world where this didn't happen at all.

On a personal note listening to this discussion on the podcast is almost the same kind of disconcerting as missing a step on the stairs - ime even good books about trauma mention this concept only as a side note, and here, this science fiction podcast talks about it as a known, central thing. Beyond general issues of spottiness in literature on trauma, I think this gap says something about societal narratives--that victims are not people who do bad things, and people who do bad things aren't victims. Caleb's experience of drowning in shame and gradually thinking in different ways about what happened--starting to think more critically--intersects in interesting ways with the Mighty Nein's reactions, from their protectiveness of Caleb to their discomfort and their varying understandings of what happened.

The Blumenthal trio in cr2 made me think of a quote I heard last summer on the Locked Tomb episode of the Wizards vs Lesbians podcast (in the case of Caleb, Astrid, Eadwulf, and Ikithon, I guess that would be Wizard vs Other, Bisexual Wizards) so I went back to find it. I've transcribed the relevant section below for other Blumendrei enjoyers (yes I used an upside down smiley face as a tone indicator it's efficient)

(This quote includes significant SPOILERS for the Locked Tomb series; I personally wouldn't consider them book-breaking spoilers, but your mileage may vary, so heads up)

--

Isaac: I was, I wanted to, to get your take on what, um, you think these creatures represent--the revenant beasts, the planet ghosts.

Alexis: I mean to some degree, we don't really know, we haven't really seen them up close enough to know--

Isaac: Well we can't. 🙃 We've heard them described, but it just, the way that they fill anybody who's done the lyctoral process with mortal terror upon seeing them, um, I first thought, oh, this is a representation of like the unreasoning horror of death, but that's clearly not the way that this book thinks about death or treats death.

Alexis: (agreeing) No.

Isaac: I was like oh it's guilt actually, (Crosstalk, agreeing: Yeah, yes!), that's what guilt does to your brain. [Chuckles.]

Alexis: Well and--Yes! I think it is guilt, and I also think that it's, um, I think that it's supposed to be sort of the world outside your abuse bubble.

Isaac: Yeah, because it turns out, you know, we get a little smell of this in the epilogue--that there is actually a huge universe out there--

Alexis: With like shops, with like stores! And sausages! And…

Isaac: Yeah, it's like this really, it reminds me of Utena--uh, I mean [laughs] we might have to reset the Utena counter too, if that's a thing we want to do--

Alexis: The thing is I don't MIND talking about UTENA! {as opposed to Homestuck}

[Both laughing]

Isaac: But, the, John's like, 'It's a shame the world is the way it is' thing really reminds me of {?? Utena character} in both his creepiness and his, you know, 'Well, this is the way the world and the universe that exists, incidentally the one that I created by my laws and that I've trapped you all in, and that I've sealed you into by your guilt and sin for a thing that I manipulated you into doing.'

Alexis: Right, and this is honestly where the abuser and the empire really converge, because that is both the logic of the abusive parent or significant other and it is also very much the logic of empire.

Isaac: Yes. But it turns out, and it turns out there is in fact an entire universe outside the, like, these horrible tiny worlds that are all that is left of, uh, of Earth's solar system (Crosstalk: Yes. Yes, so--) and they don't actually enjoy being ruled by John and his empire.

Alexis: Yeah. And so I think that the resurrection beasts are their guilt; they are the, the outside world; but you know, and the thing is, when you're in, you know, an abusive situation, guilt and shame and terror are some of the things that keep you in. (Crosstalk: Yeah.) And, you know, often it's--your own mistakes can get very much weaponized against you and the way you feel bad about them can be very much weaponized against you and I think that, you know, the Resurrection Beasts are a very good example of this, but I think they also work fairly well as a metaphor for the guilt, the sort of collective guilt for war crimes and other atrocities that our empires commit. Because this is what happens when you kill a planet, it turns out; you get…a revenge monster.

Isaac: Yes. And, one of the things about the revenge monster is that it's impossible for you to think critically or clearly about it because the overwhelming feeling of shame and terror, just, uh, overrides everything else, overrides your entire brain, and so you continue to make mistakes in an effort to either deny or fall into that oblivion. Um, you're either, it's either not true or the guilt is so severe that you have to throw yourself into Hell, [chuckles] neither of which are actually the way things get better.

[science-fiction-is-real]

Isn’t not destroying the book counterproductive to that one post about not consuming the media anymore to stop giving JKR power?? Wasn’t that what people want us to do? If she gets new fans, isn’t that a bad thing??? I won’t let people enjoy their garbage. I just don’t think it’s safe anymore to have this work exist in the world. HP should be banned at this point, at least until she’s dead (fingers crossed!)

(For the folks at home, we're talking about the harry potter books)

I understand your argument. And I def think we should avoid going out of our way to bring more people into the HP fandom. I don't think the harry potter books are good, either artistically or morrally.

But we also have to understand that a shitty book series and it's shitty author isn't really the main source of the problem. The reason that trans people suffer discrimination, intimidation, poverty, etc, is because we live in a class based society in which some people have the power to discriminate or intimidate. It's because we live in a society that allows people to live in poverty.

Think of a boss who fires a worker for coming out as trans. You can think about it from the perspective of "this guy is a transphobic jerkwad, we need to fight transphobia with a giant counter-propaganda campaign." But that doesn't really fix the problem in and of itself. The boss may be convinced to accept trans people, but that doesn't stop him from discriminating against people in other ways or otherwise being a huge asshole to his workers. We have to also ask the bigger, more important question. "Wait a god damn minute. Why is this random boss allowed to just pick and choose who works at his store based on his own personal preferences and beliefs? Why don't workers at the store have democratic say over who among them gets hired and fired? Why don't we have a jobs-guarantee program, instead of our current system that allows people to be just cast aside into the great 'reserve army of labor?'" Because the thing is, we don't have to live in a society that works that way. Discrimination against trans workers, or gay or black or immigrant workers, wouldn't exist if everyone was guaranteed a well-paying job and workplaces were run in an egalitarian manner instead of as the personal dictatorship of whoever happens to have their name on the property deed.

Trans people wouldn't live in poverty if poverty in our society didn't exist. Housing discrimination against trans people wouldn't exist if housing wasn't a commodity that could be doled out or horded based on the whims of landlords or home-owners' associations.

This doesn't mean we stop with the counter-propaganda. It doesn't mean we stop talking with cis people and explaining why trans rights are important. in other words, do what Lenin said and "patiently explain" these issues to our fellow working class people. The ideology of transphobia does cause problems in and of itself, but the structural factors that allow for entire populations to be marginalized is still the main cause of the problem.

I think if we focus our energy on one shitty book series, it confuses people about how structural oppression actually functions on a sociological level, which then makes it difficult to actually organize in order to solve the problem.

The other thing is, just as Lenin said, we do actually have to "patiently explain." And that means discussing these issues with our fellow working class people on their level. Meeting them where they're at, without judgement, without scolding them or preaching to them. It means explaining to them how transphobia hurts all of us because it's an ideological tool the ruling class uses to distract us from our material problems, because it centers around controlling the behavior of men and women to force them to conform to the boxes capitalist society created for them, because this transphobic panic hurts all people who challenge gender stereotypes and not just trans people. It means asking cis people to think of things from the perspective of trans people. Not everyone is going to be convinced, and not everyone needs to be convinced. But the thing is, you do actually have to be nice about it. This is something that my organization has learned the hard way.

And if you go around telling people, "Sorry, your favorite stupid kid's book is cancer, you are bad for buying it and reading it, and also no one should be allowed to read it ever again," you're going to end the conversation before it even has a chance to start. Working class people are going to see that as a personal attack on them and not on the ruling class who created this hell fire society.

Again, it's fine if you are against harry potter, and when people ask why you don't engage in the fandom, you can use that as a chance to "patiently explain" and start a polite conversation, but the moment you get preachy or judgy about it, you've already lost.

[utilitycaster]

if you're up to elaborating, i would love to hear more about your complicated feelings on Taliesin's reads of this campaign, because that's something that's been itching my brain but I'd been having a hard time pinpointing why and I'm interested to hear your thoughts!

So I think it's best summarized in part as a combination of what was said in this post I just reblogged and these tags from @kerosene-in-a-blender on this post:

#yeeeaaaahhhh#ngl it seems like the characters and parts of the cast got so caught up in the potential moral dilemma of interventionist gods#that they forgot the gods of exandria aren't particularly interventionist#critical role#critical role spoilers#cr spoilers

Ashton feels like they learned something about their own arrogance and assumptions with Shardgate...and then it just vanished. And the fact that Taliesin genuinely read that as what was supposed to happen when like 3-4 authority figures, some of whom (Allura) have existed since Campaign 1 as People To Listen To had said "This is a bad idea" in plain language does give me pause because like...with all due respect, I get why Ashton would do this anyway! But come on, man, how do you hear that and not go "oh maybe it's a bad idea."

I don't want to read in too much to cooldown and 4SD either but I really do just feel that like...some of the cast, and Taliesin isn't alone in this but definitely seems to be using it the most in-game, have come under the impression that the purpose of this campaign is specifically to upend everything we knew...but that idea is just an assumption that is not supported, and as I've said repeatedly, there is no situation in which the world is not drastically changed - there's going to be either a hostile alien invasion, or a friendly alien migration, but either one will be monumental within Exandrian history, and that's not counting the establishment of the Accord/the collapse of local institutions in both the Dwendalian Empire and Bassuras/ If one cannot see any possibility for vast change within the world other than killing/driving out the gods, I don't know how to address this nicely. This is an uncreative and stupid position that I can't engage with because it's so stupid. It's like saying World War II didn't change anything in our world because at the end of it the US and USSR both still existed largely intact. So the over-focus on only one means of change in a way that feels based on an interpretation of this campaign's purpose that isn't even stated anywhere is telling and deeply frustrating.

As the second post indicates, it feels like some of the cast, Taliesin especially, got caught up in a theological argument of divine intervention that personally I had a great time debating in Hebrew school when I was 13, but is not ultimately true in Exandria (or reality, for that matter). On some level it's like maybe read some Harold Kushner and you'll calm down; it feels like you're arguing against like, some very real religious tenets (that are not exclusively Christian for once) but in a story where that's not actually a problem.

I'd throw in that Bells Hells sit in this awkward place of not being nobodies (or Nobodies) anymore but many are still acting like it and Ashton is at the forefront. Indeed, look at the name "the Nobodies." The problem is that Ashton is a Somebody now. He's not like, the ruler of a city, or an ancient dragon, or a god. But they're someone who has the personal raw power and the connections to survive an ill-considered second shard absorption. They're someone who is easily going to survive a fall out of a window, and who can't be bound into service. They are someone who has been entrusted by the world to assist in saving it, and they're too fixated on the gods not personally saving them to consider the vast potential harm to others, and I think it's not inherently out of callousness but rather that they've rather abruptly risen from "orphan criminal who expected to be dead by 30" to "guy tasked to save the world" but they have no option but to rise to the occasion, as the Raven Queen said. To change the world, he must change himself, and I feel like Taliesin, who often enjoys the idea of characters who don't change, is perhaps too wed to that concept for this particular narrative. And, for what it's worth: I've said it before that my personal preference is to keep the gods in place...but I would genuinely be MILES happier with a party that decisively had decided to kill the gods. I would not agree with their decision, but anything is better than this indecision. And since Ashton is pretty staunchly in favor of killing the gods and the rest of the party is varying degrees of strongly against (Orym, Braius), weakly against (Chetney, Fearne, Imogen, increasingly Laudna) and unsure but worried specifically about the mortal impact (Dorian) at some point it's like. Either say "I don't like this, but this is the party's plan" or leave. The decisiveness matters on an individual level too; because Bells Hells does not have good internal methods of resolving conflict for reasons stated above and below, at some point it's like. You have to give it up because no one will make you. If Ashton genuinely cannot or will not yield on this, either commit to betraying the party (totally valid, could be a great story) or have them leave; if Ashton does trust the party, have them reluctantly give in. A party-wide choice must be made and fast. The party is aimless because they are all pulling in different directions and it all cancels out, but Ashton is definitely contributing extensively to that agonizing stasis.

I suppose I should wrap up with what I've been saying a lot but should probably go on this post which is that a lot of the flaws in this campaign are not any singular person's fault. I really do feel like they began with the fact that Matt was clearly building to this specific story, and Bells Hells were not a party terribly suited to it in the first place and then were given an earlier narrative that, because it was heavily on rails to get them to the solstice setpiece, failed to give them the tools to become people who would be prepared for this endgame. I think Matt really wanted the cast to make the decisions here, and did not have a specific decision in mind, and now they're all finding that they're playing characters who can't make that decision. It's a culmination of a lot of smaller out-of-game choices that have failed to gel into a coherent whole. When I say the Raven Queen was right, and if they are not ready for this, to go home, I don't think the party should be tpk-ed or anything, but yeah, if they can't decide what to do when they are essentially tasked with killing the BBEG and diffusing the universe-shattering bomb, they should abdicate. I don't think a story in which the heroes fail is a bad one. I know Call of the Netherdeep has been a touchstone in the fandom throughout this campaign and there's one possible ending to that that's sort of unsatisfying, but the unsatisfying nature itself makes it an interesting story to me. I think this campaign ending with the party saying "we can't do this" is vanishingly unlikely, and complaints aside I think they will probably make a decision now but it all feels exceedingly doylist - Bells Hells are the characters the cast happens to be playing for this climactic final moment so I guess they will play those characters, and those characters will have to make a choice so that the final moment happens, but it doesn't feel terribly organic.

[your-turn-to-role]

This is coming from a place of genuine confusion....but why does a sect of the fandom dislike Marisha so much?? Like, I haven't seen it for ANY of the other players. Is it a "wife/girlfriend of the DM" complex, because I've seen that before. Idk, I don't get it, and no amount of googling has made me understand lol.

yeahhhhhhh

okay, to preface, i absolutely disagree with all of the marisha hate, i think she's a great player and is really unfairly treated

but a couple reasons why this tends to be a thing:

1) just plain old regular misogyny, yeah. all the girls on cr get it to an extent, but it's stronger with marisha - the idea that dnd is inherently a man's game and therefore no woman could be good at it is pervasive even in this fandom, not outright, but in subtle things, like how people give the guys a lot more leeway to do dumb shit than the girls, and on dnd posts in the past i've seen comments like "this reads like how laura and marisha would describe dnd while their husbands facepalm in the background", which like... isn't really harmful on the surface, but i have a hard time imagining matt and especially travis ever facepalming at their wives genuine ideas? like if it's obviously meant to be something ridiculous and not taken seriously, sure, but otherwise, that subtle implication that they see travis as a better player than laura is just way off. (and matt has more dnd experience than marisha but like... she's still a very good player)

2) the keyleth instinct. so here's the thing about campaign one and the characters they chose to play - the majority of the cast played within their comfort zone. they branched out a lot for c2, and obviously they as people aren't identical to their vox machina counterparts, but they're not too far away either. liam's stated he irl would be a rogue, taliesin likes playing intelligent edgy teenage assholes bc he was one, laura is a bit more goofy than vex but she still thinks a lot the same, scanlan is very sam, travis is obviously a lot smarter than grog but he still fell very in line with the kind of character travis is comfortable playing and the things he wants to explore.

but marisha chose a character in campaign one who was completely the opposite of her natural self. marisha is confident and very take no shit and a natural leader, keyleth is awkward and shy and doubts herself and overthinks things and has really bad luck in basically everything she ever tries. and people watched campaign one and assumed all of those traits were just the way marisha was. if you aren't drawn to keyleth as a character, it's relatively easy to find ways to hate her (which again circles back to the misogyny a bit). they see keyleth constantly fuck up due to awkwardness and think "marisha doesn't know how to play the game". they see keyleth be a mess of a person socially and think "wow marisha's not a very good actor if she can't handle this", completely ignoring the fact that she is acting very well and it's proven by the fact that they think keyleth is marisha

(and while she still gets hate as either character, the keyleth hate was far worse than the beau hate)

3) people just, not getting what she's doing. i wasn't in the fandom for the early days of cr2, but i have friends who were, and they've said there were circles of the fandom where everything marisha did was in question, even people not believing beau was a lesbian when it's made obvious in episode one, because what if she's doing it on purpose as a scam? and like, to broaden that a bit, i think marisha's characters and their decisions get misread a lot. i personally happen to find both beau and keyleth very relatable, so i usually get where they're coming from (mostly, bowlgate i was more on caleb's side there, but i still don't think she deserves hate for it), but to people who don't, or just haven't put effort into trying to understand marisha's characters, then between keyleth's awkwardness and beau's abrasiveness i think the majority of what they pick up from marisha's characters is negative

which is a shame, because they're both really good, well thought out, interesting characters.

4) this is going into my own meta for a bit, but, something i've found about marisha's characters is they're quite down to earth and very easily the viewpoint character of the group, in a way? like obviously it's an ensemble cast, but like... let's take keyleth. campaign one starts and ends with her. the very first adventure is triggered by her leaving home for the first time, to start her aramente. she's led a sheltered life up to this point, she doesn't know the world she's walking into - so we learn about this fantasy world at the same time she does. she has the most linear and easy to follow development, her aramente spans most of the story, and once it's done things only get more centered on her. she's now a leader of her people, she's fulfilled her destiny, but that means she lives so long all her worst fears are coming true - that she'll have to spend the rest of her life alone. how did we learn this was her biggest fear? because she's been scared since the start of losing vax, but the reason she has him at all is she resolved to not let that fear control her. and then as the endgame comes in, she suddenly has to face that head on. vax has a week left to live. barely two days after, they run into sprigg - someone who lived so long after all his friends died that he's lost himself, forgotten them, become a hermit of a person who's just living because he's got nothing better to do - everything keyleth believes she will become, and fears so much. but he proves she can still choose to remember them, and choose to live in their absence, not just survive. keyleth is the one who seals away vecna, who's grown so much in her power since that little scared druid girl, she can banish a god. and our story ends with her, and her father, and a raven - she's moving on, she's living, she's thriving, but she'll never forget.

if i was gonna write out vox machina's story as a novel, there is no character who would better suit being the protagonist than her

it's a bit less strong with beau, but she's still one of the more relatable characters, she's a human, who had a rebellious teenage years because of shitty overbearing parents, she's not a magic user, she's from the country we start in (and doesn't have a dark dangerous mystical secret like caleb and veth), a lot of the big turning points in the story have had her take the lead, it's the relative mundanity that gives a contrast to and lifts up the others, while still being a highly interesting character in her own right. beau is a grounding force of the mighty nein.

i personally like those kinds of characters, but i've noticed in almost all fandoms with a main character and then a group of side characters, the main character is rarely anyone's fave, overlooked in favour more (subjectively) interesting side characters, but then because the story puts the focus on the main character, people get sick of them and start to hate them? and in this form of storytelling, there is no main character, but people sorta do that to those kinds of characters anyway. and in addition to all the other marisha stuff, that probably contributes

[metanoiamorii]

❛When I was young, I'd read stories about great heroes doing great deeds. The truth is, real heroes don't look at all like I pictured. They're far from perfect. They're bull-headed, stubborn, reckless. And also recklessly brave. They charge in without a thought to themselves. Not without fear or doubt, but in spite of it. We are all scared. But we are going to fight and die anyway, to give everyone else a chance at a better future. Because the future matters.❜

♧ Title: The Legacy of Vires Ius [TSOVI]

♧ Status: World-Building & Drafting

♧ Point of View: Third, I haven't decided if it's limited or multiple quite yet.

♧ Genre: Fantasy, Adventure, Action

♧ Warnings: Deaths, violence, nudity, cults, classism, a touch of racism, some homophobia, some transphobia, war, torture, a bit of an apocalyptic vibe, gore, eldritch beings, a very long story; I'm sure I'm missing a few more

♧ Featuring: Well for all of you out there who love the found family trope, I got big news for you! On top of, a diverse LGBTQ+ cast of characters, complex and complicated characters, morally grey characters, complex world building, plenty of symbolism, fantasy religions, unique character arcs, if a dnd campaign got written as a story, not necessarily 'the chosen' one but they definitely take up the challenge as if they're meant to; I'm sure I'm missing some, but you get the point!

♧ Setting: Okay so like... You'll get to explore the ENTIRE world in this one. From the Western European inspired countries, to the Ancient Roman inspired Societies, to a Napoleonic France inspired nation, to indigenous islands, to.... Yeah, no, you're getting a whole look at the world in this one.

♧ Synopsis:

It starts with saving the life of an emperor....— scratch that, it starts sooner than that. It starts with a runaway noblelady, a woman who wants to change her life, an eldritch being that takes the form of a weasel, a wanted bastardized nobleman, and an assassin. Together they all take up a misfit job, never telling the truth to one another, aiming to use each other for their own gain.... They come out if it friends, forgetting the original plan.

So, they become an adventuring group together for some years, until an old friend calls in a favor. That's when it starts, saving the life of an emperor. They're rewarded a keep, a paycheck, and newfound nobility. Sure, it wasn't what they all intended, but it happened. Life looks good for them.

They adopt a child of mischief and care for him as if he was there own. And some years later, the child's mother comes looking for him... She joins the family too, with her own mischief group of trouble.

The family grows bigger.

No, none of them mind, not in truth. The keep is large and quiet, really. They prefer the noise and company. They're a happy family together, until...

You probably guessed it by now. Remember the runaway noblelady? Her cousin winds up in town, with a few friends, all hiding from their past, and the law. You guessed it. They stay at the keep and... Well, they never leave. They become family too.

So what happens when you have three different adventuring groups living together?

Well, it certainly isn't a peaceful, quiet life. Mischief is around every corner, and they celebrate life every day— because hey, you don't always survive slaying a manticore, or stopping a nation from going to war, or even protecting your friends from their past....

But you know what doesn't happen to every adventuring group? Not all of them have to fight a war bigger than themselves. Not all of them take up championships from the gods to fight a field bigger than themselves.

The group originally thought the worst foe they would have to deal with is... Well, they collectively decided his new name is Dickzini. He's a fool, and easy to handle. But, they never knew someone else pulled his strings.

And that person?

That person, who's older than even Khaalida herself, wants to burn the world to the ground as they know it.

So, no more keep. No more politics. No more partying every night. No more misfit jobs. It's time to wield a weapon and prepare for war. Not to protect the world, but to protect each other. It's not a problem if they will do it... But even if they never voice it to one another, they fear if they'll all make it out alive.

♧ Excerpt:

[I want to go on record, I went through at least twenty different excerpts trying to depict which would be best, and this is the one you get.]

"So?"

"So what?"

Rihtyxr faltered where he stood when the nonchalant response was given. The bastard didn't even look up from his dinner plate... He had to stop himself from scrunching his face and showing his annoyace.

He took in a breath, his tail flicking behind him. "What do you think?"

"About?"

Rihtyxr had to bite his bottom lip and tap his fingers against his legs to stop himself from doing something rash. "... The kid— my kid— I was introducing you to..."

"Oh." The knife stopped scraping against the plate. A napkin was picked up, used to dab away the ichor, before dropped onto the plate. Hands neatly folded, Rons'ta lifted his head to stared forward. "I don't like it."

Again, Rihtyxr faltered. "What do you mean—"

"You're playing with something dangerous, Rîxie." Purposely, he used that nickname to infuriate the trickster. "It'll either cost you your crown, if not your life... If we are lucky."

The trickster scoffed. "You're simply paranoid, like always, you bastard. My own flesh and blood would never do me harm!"

Rons'ta was quick to scowl. As it was a rare occasion, he allowed himself to slam a fist against the table and raise his voice at his compatriot. "You should have smothered it in its crib, you arrogant fool!" In he breathed. Out he exhaled. He raised his glass to his lips and looked away, muttering against the rim of the cup. "... You've birthed the end of all things, Nameless Ones help us all when he realizes his power.... Khaalida take pity on the fools to stand in his way..."

♧ Characters:

Here is your cast of characters, since there is a lot, I'll be supplying minimal information until their character intros. I'll be supplying the main ones, but gods are there many in this story.

Vires Ius: 'The Heroes'

━━━━━━━━━━━

♧ Kalimali Sayegh

Male • He/Him • Pansexual • Demiromantic • Half Elf • The Exiled Magister

♧ Blythe Vidya

Transfem • She/Her • Pansexual • Demiromantic • Half-Minx • The Lady of The Voice

♧ Helene Laverna

Nonbinary • She/They • Asexual • Demiromantic • Human • The Runaway Priestess

♧ Raz Gacheru

Transmasc • He/They • Bisexual • Demiromantic • Half-Witch • The Ex-Assassin

♧ Robyn Trikfoot

Male • He/Him • Out of my house asking about a child's sexuality • Halfling • The Champion of Redemption

♧ Biscuits

He/Him • Weasel • ???? • The Mascot

The Misfits: 'The Troublemakers'

━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

♧ Vrykolas

Transmasc • He/Him • Demisexual • Demiromantic • Nephalem • The Trophy Son

♧ Diablos

Demiboy • He/They • Asexual • Aromantic • Arc'yni • The Scavenger

♧ Alacèto Qystione

Genderfluid • He/They • Pansexual • Aromantic • Half-Elf, Half Succubus • The Bard

♧ Eithirna

Female • She/Her • Demisexual • Aromantic • Witch • The Wolf Blood Witch

♧ Amidir Naberius Qystinoe Scathaghe

Agender • He/They • Demisexual • Demiromantic • Half Light Elf, Half Dark Elf • The Raven's Champion

The Shifty Bunch: 'The Riffraffs'

━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

♧ Chayliel

Agender • He/Him • Grey-Asexual • Demiromantic • Nephilim • The Rebellious Soldier

♧ Niky 'Noé' Orlan Von Brandt

Nonbinary • He/They • Grey-Asexual • Aromantic • Witch • The Horned Witch

♧ Caiomhe

Transmasc • He/They • Asexual • Demiromantic • Fairy-Human-Elf hybrid • The Reckless & Selfless

The Angels of Darkness: 'The Cult'

━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━

♧ Damocles 'Dámianus' Aliah Teivel

Agender • He/They • Grey-Asexual • Aromantic • Great Old One • The Mad One of The Void

♧ Miriam 'Misam' Heyoka-Teivel

Nonbinary • They/She • All that matters is she is attracted to power • Witch • The Angel Of Darkness

♧ Gaylon 'Gazini' Mavolio

Agender • They/He • Asexual • Aromantic • Great Old One • The Thing That Shouldn't Be

♧ Karayan 'Ianira' Than Blackthorn

Genderfluid • They/He • Homosexual • Aromantic • Feytouched • The Dark Devourer

♧ Malachi 'Jinx' Puck Melodie

Genderfluid • She/They • Homosexual • Aromantic • Feytouched • The Laughing Mistress

Taglist:

If you would like to be added, feel free to leave it in the tags, drop a comment, send in an ask, or shoot me a dm!

[eliza-lukashenko]

I posted 1,264 times in 2021

94 posts created (7%)

1170 posts reblogged (93%)

For every post I created, I reblogged 12.4 posts.

I added 1,661 tags in 2021

#the untamed - 296 posts

#word of honor - 248 posts

#art - 235 posts

#2ha - 229 posts

#heaven official's blessing - 141 posts

#jokes - 122 posts

#wei wuxian - 111 posts

#wangxian - 109 posts

#2ha art - 86 posts

#wenzhou - 84 posts

Longest Tag: 88 characters

#it was just one scene in the book and really you can't tell he's sitting sideways anyway

My Top Posts in 2021

#5

I don’t know how to really express my dream cast for Xie Lian except to say that I want him to have some gremlin energy and not just the pure lotus energy. No I won’t elaborate. 

27 notes • Posted 2021-03-16 14:01:00 GMT

#4

Confused priorities: When you're offended that your boyfriend refuses to fight for your best friend's hand in marriage.

"How dare you? Don't you think my best friend is amazing?!"

29 notes • Posted 2021-05-26 12:35:20 GMT

#3

The sad thing about the tgcf live-action being bad is that this show could be a game-changer.

Here are, my two cents. It's a personal opinion so don't overthink it if you end up reading this.

MXTX is a pretty good writer. She has three novels and all three of them became popular for good reason. It's not the same as novels published traditionally or in the west where there's big advertising campaigns. No, these books got famous of their own merits and because they break their genres.

People love to bash MXTX and MDZS but the truth is that 90% of The Untamed's success is thanks to the good source material and the fact that the creators 1) didn't add a female love interest 2) didn't kill either Lan Wangji or Wei Wuxian by the end, saved the show. It's also not as on-the-nose with its subversive tones as svsss. Svsss is heavy on satire and postmodernist techniques so it can be a bit off-putting for casual viewers or it can go over people's heads (as it does all the time!).

Now we come to tgcf. Heaven Official's blessing is a XianXia novel. All you need to do is look at the other xianxia shows out there to understand why tgcf is so special. The genre is a lot of ghosts and gods and demons and hundreds and thousands of years of yearning and romance and so on. Another thing you will notice about xianxia is that people kind of hate them (not me, I love 'em) The general public, the C-ent people, the critics, etc. They all think the stories are :

1)formulaic

2)Cliche

3)Repetitive

4)With bad scripts,

5)weak actors,

6)bad CGI,

7)boring costumes

8)and lots of watered-down episodes for the sake of melodrama and media traction.

People have been waiting for a good, new, and groundbreaking xianxia for a few years now. Otherwise, the genre will die and that's really sad because it's one of the most unique things about cdramaland and it's a real shame if it just went away.

Heaven Official's blessing is the kind of story that can save the genre. It has the gods and ghosts and demons and a yearning that goes on for centuries and it's also not like the other shows because MXTX loves her metafiction commentary and she loves to turn genres on their heads and that's why her works are so popular and amazing and that's why TGCF has the potential to turn xianxia on its head.

It's a breath of fresh air. It challenges the genre and its stereotypes and it's a well-told story. If its live-action were to become a success, then it would revitalize the genre. Good costumes, professional actors, a decent script, interesting cinematography, expensive CGI, and so on... all of these together would help the process. You can't use recycled fabric, and cheap-ass props to make a point about the genre. That will be "Go princess go" all over again and yeah the show did a thing (tm) when it came out but it's honestly unwatchable at this point.

So yeah, the disappointment will be real and devastating if this is a failure.

That's just my feelings about it. Others might argue that cheap shows make waves too and it's true but xianxia shows are already dealing with all of that so I personally think bringing anything less than 180% of their commitment to the project would make it a flop and undermine its effect.

33 notes • Posted 2021-07-26 09:30:59 GMT

#2

This is what I call Wen Ke Xing's "Wait, you're evil too?!" face

38 notes • Posted 2021-04-11 15:16:24 GMT

#1

It's so surprising for me to find out that Word of Honor/Faraway Wonderers was voted most likely to flop because it was my second most anticipated bl adaptation after Immortality.

You see even though I haven’t read the book yet, I saw a few bts photos in summer when they were still filming and the actors looked like they were genuinely having a fun time (also, the leaks were WILD lmao, it all makes sense now in retrospect) so I knew the show was made with love and was so excited for it. 

It really doesn’t matter how high the budget is, all you need for good art is love. If people who make it care about it, it’ll be good. 

44 notes • Posted 2021-03-14 17:04:46 GMT

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