#they have some new characterization but it still works as an interpretation of the character

[bombontheevilcat]

watching the tales of symphonia anime after my latest replay cuz I just ain't over it

so far I really enjoy it, it's quite rushed going from a 50+ hour game w/mutliple b-plots to a sanded down main story in just 11 eps (30 min ones so more like 16-ish eps for an average-length anime). There have been a few kinda drastic changes that have made me raise an eyebrow but not enough to have me make a double-take and raise 2 (or 3) (I keep a spare 4th one as well)

As animated fanservice tho I'm REALLY eatin' it up (like the 🤓kind, not the 😳type)

[anneapocalypse]

On Wuk Lamat's Role in the Back Half of Dawntrail

(Note: You do not have to like Wuk Lamat, you do not have to like any character, that is your business; however this post is not an invitation to expound to me on why you hate her, so if you aren't open to discussing her positively, please move along.)

Wuk Lamat is vital to the back half of Dawntrail. Her presence in the story there is both narratively and thematically important and its lack would render her character arc incomplete.

For context, I have seen some comments that there should have been less Wuk Lamat in the back half of Dawntrail. I truly don't see how that would have been possible or made sense without throwing out most of what was set up in the first half, or simply writing an entirely different story. Regardless of whether you personally vibe with her, Wuk Lamat is the main character of Dawntrail; this is her story, and it's themes and narrative beats are inextricably interwoven with her character arc.

First of all, can you imagine what people (in-universe and out) would say about her if after the attack on her people and the appearance of the dome she just... stayed in Tuliyollal with Koana and let other people do all the work? She's the Vow of Resolve. Of course she's going to be at the forefront of the action. The whole point of her choosing Koana to rule with her in a new interpretation of the tradition of blessed siblings is that they have complementary strengths, and they have a benefit that blessed siblings don't: they can be in two places at once!

Second, a big part of Wuk Lamat's journey is learning about the cultures of Tural so that she can fairly preside over them all, and in Alexandria we get to see her bring that lesson to bear in a big way when she learns about the regulators and the processing of souls. She's rattled by it but pushes past that personal reaction to say, as the Dawnservant, "Please teach me of your history and culture so that I can understand the importance of this practice." In doing so she learns critical information about the situation. This is a culture so far removed from the Turali peoples Wuk Lamat knows, and they're also a separate kingdom not technically under her rule at all, but that doesn't actually change her response. She still reaches out with curiosity and compassion, always seeking to learn and understand.

As she comes to understand Alexandria's history, she also learns the context she'll need to understand Sphene when her true motivations are revealed later. Moreover, Sphene is a very clear foil for Wuk Lamat. The Dawnservant characterized by her love for her people and her desire for their peace and happiness vs. the Endless Queen whose love for her people has been twisted into something destructive and terrible.

And then there's the narrative beats about family, and particularly the loss of parents in different ways: Wuk Lamat earning the trust of her brother's abandoned son and taking him in as family, and her being there for Erenville as he struggles to come to terms with the death of a parent (something Wuk Lamat has also experienced very recently).

And that's to say nothing of how personal Zoraal Ja's betrayal is to Wuk Lamat; of course she has confront him personally. It couldn't be anyone else (except maybe Koana, and they both seem to agree that it should be her).

The Rite of Succession is not Wuk Lamat's whole character arc; it's only the first half. It's after Wuk Lamat comes into her own as Dawnservant alongside her brother that she truly shines. It is in the back half of the story, when the stakes are dramatically raised, that all the lessons she's learned in her journey will be tested, when the peace she seeks to preserve is so brutally disrupted. We get to see her struggle emotionally with the shock of that in Tuliyollal, then rise to the challenge of leadership. How she responds to all of that is her character. It is the culmination of everything the first half of the story has set up. This is still her story.

And personally, I think it's wonderful to see a female character not only featured so prominently in the story but getting so much character development and such a complete character arc.

[indigovigilance]

Jimbriel, Satan, the Book of Life, and what it means for Crowley

Acknowledging that what we know so far about the Book of Life from various characters is highly suspect, I'm going to posit to you that Beelzebub is actually the true authority on the Book of Life, and that they bookend Season 2 with very important (and hopefully accurate) information about the Book of Life. With that in mind, let's take Beezlebub's S2E1 description and see how it fits with other canon evidence:

But what does it mean to have never existed in the Good Omens universe? For that, let us look to Satan.

From in-show canon, we know that Adam was able to retroactively change Satan's status as his father to not his father:

Adam altered reality, although Crowley, Aziraphale, the other celestials, and even Adam himself remember those events from a timeline that supposedly has been erased:

But Crowley nonetheless confirms that this is reality now. Satan was never Adam's father.

Additionally, though not technically in-show canon, we know from Notorious NRG that once Satan became Lucifer, this erased Lucifer from existence in the GO universe:

And Crowley's monologue in the bar drives it home; even though Lucifer no longer exists, Crowley still remembers him, and some key events that they were involved in together.

But a more dramatic portrayal of erasure is found in our favorite Good Omens himbo, Jimbo. In the trial of Gabriel, the Metatron makes direct allusion to the fact that Gabriel will no longer be Gabriel after his demotion:

Not "your memory of your time as the supreme archangel will be erased," no, it's:

Your memory of your time as Gabriel will be erased.

Whether he means to or not, Aziraphale reinforces this characterization of memory-loss-as-new-identity:

This can be taken simply as a safety measure, but Jimbo doesn't understand it that way and we see throughout the remainder of the season that Aziraphale is very consistent about calling his unexpected guest "Jim," even correcting Crowley when they're speaking privately and it wouldn't blow his cover to call him Gabriel:

But the final word on memory and identity, especially as they pertain to Jimbriel, again comes from our Lord of the Flies, Beelzebub:

All your you is your memories.

Altogether we see that there is significant in-show canon to support a theory that memory is inextricably linked with identity, and that when memory is removed, identity is so drastically changed that the name of the entity must also change... and the person who existed before, with that former name, exists no longer; it is as if they never had.

(But, as we see in the case of Gabriel, they can be restored.)

I told you in the title that this post was about the Book of Life: it is. Everything discussed here about memory and identity must necessarily characterize how the Book of Life operates, at least with respect to erasure. When someone is erased, they don't vanish, but they are so changed it is as if a new person has taken the place of the old, the way Jim took the place of Gabriel, until he got his memories back. But we can surmise that when someone is erased from the Book of Life, their memories aren't conveniently stored in a TARDIS/Ru Paul fly for later recovery. The memories may not be gone, but I'm going to guess that they would be extremely difficult (or impossible) to retrieve.

What this means for Crowley:

I think we need to give this scene a lot more credit for telling us how this universe works. Surface level, it reads as "you don't understand my trauma, and how I've been changed by it." Which is a very valid interpretation. But we can dig deeper and see that, given everything else we know about celestial beings losing their memories, names, and identities, Crowley is alluding to something far more horrific than just the scars left by flaming swords and halo-grenades.

These are the scars of a lobotomy. Something was taken from him, and he is aware of it.

He knows that his memory has been tampered with. Various people (Furfur, Saraqael) tell him that they recognize him, and of things they've done together. He has no recollection of them, but instead of getting agitated, he brushes it off and ignores it. This lack of questions from the guy who questions everything tells us that he already has the answers; not the memories, but the knowledge of why he doesn't have them.

Furthermore, when he's trying to get Jim to remember the something bad and Jim says it hurts, Crowley says:

I know. Do it anyway.

How does Crowley know that it hurts, to try to recall memories that have been taken out of your head?

Because he's been through it.

He has tried to remember, and some memories, like working on the Horsehead Nebula with Saraqael or monkeying around with Furfur, weren't worth the pain. Or perhaps it was pain on top of pain to remember what he had lost.

It is an especial testament to the cruelty of Heaven that he remembers going into battle, but not the bonds he formed with his friends. He remembers a million lightyear freestyle dive into a boiling pool of sulfur, but not the work he did on the Horsehead Nebula, a thing that brought him joy.

And now, the person he loves most in the world, his only refuge from the terror of his empty nightmares, from his malignant and creeping sense of unease that something is missing, has gone back to that place where his identity was so horribly violated that he lost his name.

How will our hero cope?

If you liked this meta, you will almost certainly like my meta on Continuity Errors.

For my thoughts on who Crowley may have been before the fall, go here.

For my thoughts on how this pertains to Metatron, go here.

As I continue to produce metas related to this theory, you'll be able to find them all here.

[philosophicalpug]

Ship whiteknight?

Why white knight? Well let me show you

So, we will start out with the obvious: beacon. why would I ship this annoying dork with a girl that is clearly not interested and has rejected his advances multiple times? It’s simple, I don’t I ship the jaune that helps people,

See he’s a dumb teenager, they both are, but the key here is that jaune matures, sure the intended comedy left more than a little room for sour interpretation, he stopped and saw that she wanted to be with another, and promptly ceased his advances, this is very key to his characterization that we must forget, he genuinely wants her to be happy. And when Neptune beefs it because of his own insecurities? Jaune doesn’t come in for the rebound or any opportunistic sense, no, he confronts him and makes sure Weiss has a good evening.

Not only that, he follows up on his promise to Pyrrha at the dance, this once more highlights his good qualities, he may not be particularly clever or insightful at times, but when he gets it, he gets it

At his heart, he’s someone who tries his best and wants only the best for others. Rocking the dress while played for laughs, still shows that he will go above and beyond because people matter to him

(Also doing this in front of Weiss is important too, he’s not afraid of acting the fool to his crush, not at all! Hes been setting aside the macho bravado, which is a good thing if he’s ever to be in a real relationship) Now onto some Weiss analysis from the beacon era, pompous, classic rich girl, doesn’t have time for all this nonsense and is a career girl through and through- and though she would never admit it, she’s just as much of a dolt as those that surround her,

But we know she’s come from a terrible household, cold was putting it nicely, her fathers a terrible man who doesn’t love anything except money, her mother is an alcoholic that didn’t love them enough (if at all) her older sister being the only member of family where she’s had  a consistent positive relationship, and she ended up running away to the military, leaving behind all the eldest daughter shield duties and trauma to her, which, boy that was a lot. And her little brother, her father’s favorite, she’s not anywhere near mature enough to confront, separate and acknowledge her feelings for said brother who is being raised to be exactly as detestable as the man that sired him. And what choice does Whitley have? He was so young, and he was left behind. Its safe to say she wants a normal, loving life. Desperately. It’s easy to see it in things like Zwei, how over the moon she was for the little guy, and in winter, how she comes to idolize her and seeks her approval over anyone’s. This girl is STARVED for affection.

With beacon being her chance to spread her wings a bit, it’s also natural to see that she would be interested in pursuing a romantic relationship, at her own pace. It’s no wonder that at first early volumes Weiss didn’t like Jaune-she doubtlessly dealt with the bravado of a dozen boys trying to gain her favor because of her status and wealth. Additionally, jaunes impostor syndrome ultimately bled into his interactions with Weiss as well, he was faking it all in beacon, what’s a little more to impress a girl? it’s not like shed like the real him, right? This and Weiss’s self-image of needing to be this pristine, perfect princess is also a huge factor as to why white knight wouldn’t work at beacon, its simply too early, Jaunes attempts were at the height of both their respective character flaws/failings. There's no WAY it would have worked.

Which is why she gravitated to Neptune, I think it was her trying to get out of her shell and try new things, yet still in the trappings of the “need to be pristine” persona. Thinking about this, seriously, yeah of course she was going to get a crush on Neptune, it’s what she knows except she’s convinced herself that its “different”. This suave guy that’s well dressed, knows what a perfect contrast to jaune doing is. It’s not like Weiss really knows Neptune but she thinks she does, at this stage of her life she’s really ruled by her first impressions of people (Ruby Pyrrha Jaune are some examples)

Back to the dance, an entire night worrying, feeling all sorts of emotions after what is likely the first time she opened herself up to a relationship and she’s been left behind. But of course, she must act like it doesn’t bother her, she’s Weiss Schnee, she’s above little insecurities like that. And along comes Jaune with the dress, she saw him make himself the fool in front of everyone laughing along it was a good time for all.

Lo and behold! When Neptune came back she started asking what happened, that she thought he was too embarrassed, Neptune says that it was Jaune that convinced him to come. The boy she’s rejected time and time again, the one she likely thought no more than a nuisance at best, took it all in stride and made sure she had a good time, he definitively proved himself as someone trustworthy, especially with how “an arc never goes back on their word”. It’s no wonder that at this point many people think it could potentially work out, they both have matured, and Weiss finally sees that while Jaunes attempts were annoying and grating, they were always sincere, especially when you consider he had no idea the significance of the Schnee name before.

This is all a solid foundation to work with, they’ve matured a decent bit from where they started, both now able to see each other in a better light. Its not that they are head over heels for each other, but you can’t deny this works as a solid foundation for a possible relationship down the line

But of course, it’s not all gumdrops and Weiss-cream

FALL OF BEACON Moving onto the fall of beacon the first person jaune calls for help with Pyrrha is Weiss, in his most vulnerable moment he reaches out to her, now could this just be how the writers decided the order of things would go? Sure.  But consider this

I think he believes Weiss to be the best among them, someone who he sees as levelheaded and skilled to do something about it, since her semblance is the most flexible one of them all. If theres anyone who can do something, it’s her.

POST FALL  

They’ve both are in their lowest point, truly where the new versions of themselves are put to the test, and oddly enough, both share a parallel with returning home both wouldn’t choose to go home, but one of them was forced to. Jaune decided to persist with his dream and followed through to help his friends, his loyalty is almost second to none: he was a hack, a fraud, no business being amongst his heroes, a dork at the best of times. The easiest thing he could do is return home. No one would blame him. But he didn’t.

Jaune is loyal, astoundingly so, he has a family, with 7 sisters, he could have gone home after the fall, no one would have thought twice about it. Instead, he stuck through, traveling for weeks through monster infested terrains for his friends with whatever they needed. At this point has been steadily improving, no longer just some punk that doesn’t know what they are doing.

(mans stopped a whole ass charging man-devil-horse -hybrid dead in its tracks, noodle boy has been promoted to Pasta with Beef) And yet...he’s still very affected by the fall, mourning. In the battle of haven he was recklessly pursuing cinder, he’s someone with a lot of pain, someone who clearly doesn’t think themselves as important as those that surround him.

Meanwhile everything in the Schnee manor is shit show, Weiss is back in the middle of her family dynamic, looking to be free once more. She ends up struck by her father, disowned and generally treated with scorn, then she gets kidnapped by bandits afterwards. Theres really nothing Weiss wouldn’t do to find real family. By the time they are all reunited, I think she will notice just how the members of Team J_NR are people to trust and confine in.  Knowing what we know, Nora and Ren  didn’t really have anywhere else to go given they are orphans, so it would make sense for them to follow ruby to haven. But once again, Jaune demonstrates true courage and chooses the hard path. That means something for sure. Skipping to the haven fight again, this is another heavy moment, particularly when Weiss-

Well, Weiss was nothing less than struck down. And what is Jaunes immediate response? The only one he seems to have, to be there, no matter what. And in that instinct to protect, in caring for others, he unlocks the mystery of his soul.

At his core he only wants to help, a selfless desire so strong, so literally suffused in his very essence of being that it actively manifests itself in the world.   

You can’t tell me this means nothing to her. For a girl that has lived in a stifling coffin of a home. To find someone who’s so selfless and caring, despite never once needing to. Finding someone that manages to see her for who she is, who cares for their happiness without asking anything in return. Someone whom despite all they have suffered, still pushes forward to be there every moment they can in service for others. Someone who reached out with their very soul to halt the hand of death, fueling your own to give you the strength to come back, to your loved ones, never once even mentioning it. Is it any real surprise that love is in the cards for these two?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What makes this ship work is all the post beacon stuff, they both have suffered terrible losses yet they still need to push through, they both have matured and see each other for what they really are,  they can both look back on their beacon days and reminisce, laugh about how stupid they were, mourn lost friends and in that, they find comfort.  They have both been given the space to improve and be better, and it’s not hard to see the qualities they would see in each other Jaune is a loyal and loving person, he knows about family and would sooner suffer ills before ever breaking a promise, someone who WILL love someone to the fullest. Weiss may be cold, but she’s a sweetheart under all that, she’s been hurt and desperately wants to love and be loved, something jaune wouldn’t hesitate to do.

[graysoncritic]

A (Negative) Review of Tom Taylor's Nightwing Run - What Went Wrong? Dick's Characterization

Introduction Who is Dick Grayson? What Went Wrong? Dick's Characterization What Went Wrong? Barbara Gordon What Went Wrong? Bludhaven (Part 1, Part 2) What Went Wrong? Melinda Lin Grayson What Went Wrong? Bea Bennett What Went Wrong? Villains Conclusion Bibliography

In the previous section, we explored not only who Dick Grayson is and why he is so beloved by his friends, but why many people — including Taylor and others at DC — have a hard time  understanding his character. By reducing Dick to a hero who is “good” and transforming into an “everyman” that anyone can project themselves onto, Taylor fundamentally removes that which makes Dick special, transforming him into a different character.

But there are other ways in which Taylor and DC mischaracterize Dick by erasing his history and transforming into a more “palatable” mainstream hero. That is what I wish to explore in more detail now. 

Let’s begin by examining how Taylor’s framing Dick’s story in Nightwing (and that of the Titans in Titans) as a coming-of-age tale contributes to a grand erasure of Dick Grayson’s greatness.

In Taylor’s run, Dick is treated as if he were a new superhero. However, even if this run (not the entire title that started in 2016 with Rebirth, but just Taylor’s run) were to become a new stand-in for the 1996 Nightwing solo in which Dick arrives in Bludhaven for the very first time, Dick Grayson should not be portrayed as someone new to vigilantism. Even if one were to generously interpret Taylor’s Dick as being only twenty-two years old after starting as Robin at twelve years of age and only recently having become Nightwing, Dick would still have a decade of experience doing detective and hero work. It is notable that most of that decade was spent with him leading the Titans, serving as Batman’s partner and second-in-command, and mentoring numerous young heroes.

(Wolfram, Amy, writer. Kerschl, Karl, illustrator. In the Beginning… Part Three. Teen Titans: Year One no. 03, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2008. pp. 09)

One of Dick’s core traits is that he is a natural, if at times reluctant, leader. Many key moments in his character history are defined by Dick feeling the weight of the responsibilities placed upon him and having to push through his personal reservations for the sake of others. 

Dick was the first child hero. He was the first sidekick. Out of universe and in universe. (In the introduction to  Dick Grayson, Boy Wonder: Scholars and Creators on 75 years of Robin, Nightwing, and Batman, Kristen L. Geaman mentions that some argue Mister America from Action Comics #2 is, in fact, the first side-kick. However, this claim is debated since Mister America played more of a comedic and “Watsonian” role [as Dick Grayson Fan C suggested], and Dick was the one who popularized the formula of the role.) He was the proof that the concept of a sidekick — a partner — could work. Proof that kids could be trained into this life. Proof that they did not need powers in order to be a hero. That is one of the reasons why, in-universe, he is admired by so many characters – because he is the trailblazer who opened the doors for every young hero and side-kick that came after him. Dick’s history is also why he has so many connections — it is because he was the one who opened the doors for everyone else, mentored so many people, and partnered with those who were his age and those who were much older that he gained so much respect in the superhero community. 

And yet, that history is called into question in Taylor’s narrative when he frames Dick as a young, new hero who is just beginning to assess what he wants to do with his life. Not only is it bad storytelling to portray Dick’s connections without factoring in the experience tied into them, it also demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of who Dick is, what he represents, and why he’s been so beloved for over 80 years.

This lack of appreciation and of respect towards Dick is extended to the other Titans in Taylor’s Titans (2023) run. As he himself pointed out, the first arc is called Out of the Shadows because, in his words, the Titans are “stepping out of the shadows of the Justice League.”

(Taylor, Tom [TomTaylorMade]. Twitter, 22 June 2023, https://twitter.com/jesswchen/status/1636971185782259716?s=20.)

And yet, to its fans, the Titans were never in the Justice League’s shadows. They were not inferior or subordinate to the Justice League, even if they may be less known. In-universe, the Titans may have modeled themselves after the Justice League and they may be allies, but the Titans are still an independent entity. From their very inception they defined themselves in contrast with how the Justice League operates. 

In fact, in JLA/Titans #02, Dick himself draws this distinction when arguing with Bruce and calling him out on his condescending behavior towards the Titans.

(Grayson, Devin; Jimenez, Phil, writers. Jimenez, Phil; Brown, Eliot R., illustrator. The Generation Gap. JLA/Titans no. 02, e-book ed. DC Comics, 1998. pp. 23)

Trying to repackage Dick and the Titans as newbie heroes who are only now experiencing independence demonstrates a lack of understanding of their history and who the Titans are meant to be. The Dark Crisis and The Dawn of the DCU attempt to frame Dick’s Nightwing series and Titans as coming-of-age tales, where only now the characters are stepping into adulthood. Taylor’s writing goes a step further and portrays them as making rookie mistakes, coming across as newbies, and as a result, erasing all of the rich history that have built these characters into who they are today.

As I mentioned above, even if we generously interpreted that Dick never lived in Bludhaven before, Dick should still have plenty of experience being a hero and living on his own. The moment in which he transitions from Robin to Nightwing (willingly or unwillingly depending on your preferred Nightwing origin story) is Dick’s coming-of-age moment. By the time he comes to Bludhaven, Dick already knows who he is, what he wants, and he knows how to care for himself. By the time Dick comes to Bludhaven, his internal struggles are not that of a young adult who just left the nest and does not yet feel like an adult, but rather that of an adult who knows his own abilities and is confident in who he is. 

And yet, in Nightwing #84, the first issue in Nightwing: Fear State, Taylor has Dick pondering on the responsibilities of taking care of Bludhaven. Right on the first page, he says “Fighting an entire corrupt system? Saving a whole city? There’s no training for that.” 

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Rodriguez, Robbi, illustrator.  Fear State Part 1 of 3. Nightwing: Rebirth. 84, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 03)

Except even the most basic knowledge of Dick’s character shows that he was, in fact, trained to save an entire system and to fight a corrupt system — he was trained to care for Gotham and to take out the corrupt systems that prevail in that city. Not only that, Dick has also been Batman, at which point he was also Gotham’s main protector. 

This mistake becomes even more outrageous when one considers that, though Taylor’s run is at times treated as a soft-reboot, Dick is still shown to have lived in Bludhaven while operating as Nightwing. This means that that generous interpretation I’ve been alluding to is not, in fact, compatible with the story as it is written. It is a falsehood, and therefore cannot be used to excuse the “new-in-town” approach Taylor uses when writing Dick. 

Dick’s apparent inexperience and, frankly, incompetence, is further highlighted by the amount of times Dick is saved by others, or the amount of times when he is dependent on others to do the work for him. These instances include, but are not limited to:

The people of Bludhaven answering Nightwing’s call when Heartless sets the tent city on fire in #81

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator Leaping into the Light Part 4. Nightwing: Rebirth. 81, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 13)

Dick being knocked out with a single blow and then unmasked during his first attempt to investigate Melinda also in issues #81

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator Leaping into the Light Part 4. Nightwing: Rebirth. 81, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 20 - 21)

Babs calling people to Dick’s rescue rather than trusting he could get out of it on his own in #82.

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator. Leaping into the Light Part 5. Nightwing: Rebirth. 82, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 03)

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator. The Battle for Bludhaven’s Heart Part Four. Nightwing: Rebirth. 95, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2022. pp 24 - 25)

In #90, when his building blew up and Wally came to save him, then proceeded to force him to rest away from Bludhaven instead of letting him take action.

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator Get Grayson Act Three. Nightwing: Rebirth. 90, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2022. pp 15)

And needing Babs’ help during a car chase in #106,

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Byrne, Stephen. The Crew of the Crossed Part One. Nightwing: Rebirth. 106, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2023. pp 16)

Which greatly contrasts how, in #113 of the Nightwing (1996), Dick handles a similar situation while simultaneously mentoring Rose Wilson.

(Grayson, Devin, writer. Chian, Cliff, illustrator The Scorpion and the Frog. Nightwing no 113, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2005. pp. 19)

The thesis of Taylor’s run is that people need to rely on one another — we have to be each other’s safety net. And while that is an interesting theme to explore and one that certainly speaks to Dick’s history of doing things on his own out of fear of putting others in danger, Dick should still, more times than not, be able to do things by himself. After all, this is not an ensemble piece — this is Nightwing’s story and as his fans, we want to read about him. Cameos are fine. They can be fun, in fact. But cameos are different from Dick constantly struggling and needing help whenever he faces a challenge – the former portrays Dick as someone with powerful connections that deeply love him; the latter portrays Dick as being incapable of doing things without someone holding his hand.

This is another thing that Waid understands about Dick and portrays it clearly in World’s Finest. When Kara explains to Clark what first attracted her to Dick, she emphasizes how, despite the fact he had no powers, he could still save himself. 

(Waid, Mark, writer. Lupacchino, Emanuela, illustrator. Scream of the Chaos Monkey. Batman/Superman: World’s Finest no. 12, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2023. pp. 06 - 07)

Being not just competent, but exceeding even the highest expectations is at the core of Dick’s character. And, as was pointed out in the previous section, it also serves to feed into his toxic perfectionism — he is one of the top tier heroes, therefore people expect excellence from him. Dick does not want to fail those who put their trust in him, and so he demands perfection of himself to the point of self-destruction.

Beyond that, we cannot give Taylor credit for trying to tell a story about Dick growing out of his perfectionist bad habits by learning to rely on others. After all, if Dick is constantly asking for help, then he is not resisting help. And that removes his chance for growth. A character arc requires development and change, which means one cannot start at the endpoint. Therefore, it cannot be claimed that Taylor’s intentions are for Dick to learn to rely on others, for he has been doing so without hesitation since the beginning. 

As a result, the story is not about Dick being Bludhaven’s safety net while learning that he also has a safety net of his own, but rather about Dick always relying on his safety net, always knowing it was there, and having them also shoulder the responsibilities he took when he named himself Bludhaven’s protector. There is no room for Dick to grow because he is already at the end of his journey. And there is no room for Dick to be the hero of his story because others are constantly coming to his rescue when things get too difficult.

Once more, I must clarify that I’m not saying that Dick is not loved, or that Dick is not important to many people. I’m simply stating that the way his relationships are built gives him very little room to rely on them. He is their safety net but he doesn’t trust them to be his safety net. Exploring this requires going into the nuances of each relationship, where conflicts are created, and where people hurt the other in the heat of an argument. It would mean dealing with the messiness of complex human emotions, forcing characters and the audience to sit with uncomfortable feelings as we get to the root of Dick’s perfectionism and his fears.  

In June of 2022 a reader on Twitter asked Taylor about his decision to have Dick constantly falling, for, as they pointed out, this makes Dick look incompetent.

(Jonathan [@Nightwingdagoat]. Twitter, 21 June 2022, https://twitter.com/Nightwingdagoat/status/1539267708310765568)

Taylor responded by saying that these instances were Redondo’s call, and that it was their attempt to humanize Dick.

(Tom Taylor [@TomTaylorMade]. Twitter, 21 June 2022, https://twitter.com/Nightwingdagoat/status/1539267708310765568)

In fairness to Taylor, the following criticism will then be directed primarily at Redondo who believed these instances were the best way to “remind people that Nightwing is human.” That being said, as Taylor appears to support such a position, and as he has written numerous incidents where Dick is conveniently knocked over by others, I do believe this can be directed at him as well. 

Simply put, to have a character constantly fall is a superficial and lazy way to humanize said character. Casual falls like this, after all, are not failures. They contribute little to the story and have very little consequence.  

Nothing happens once Dick falls. The bad guy doesn’t get away, the innocent civilian is not hurt, the crucial piece of evidence needed to crack the case is not destroyed. There are no lasting consequences for Dick to deal with, no conflict that can arise from these falls, no tension to make Dick’s future success more emotionally effective. Furthermore, these falls are completely out of Dick’s control, taking away any responsibility he might have for his mistakes. 

If the flaws that are meant to “humanize” Dick are falls which he bears no agency over, then he, the good guy, has no responsibility over his own “failures.” Said “failures” also end up having no consequences to the plot, which gives Dick no crisis to respond to (furthering his passivity), and this robs Dick of character development opportunities. 

It creates a stasis in the story where the only conflicts Dick faces are the ones against really bad guys that always – always – lose to Dick and his connections, and ones which do not ask for moments of introspection.

Despite almost never falling in The Untouchable, Dick is far more human there than in Taylor’s and Redondo’s run. This is because Dick is forced to face the consequences of his “failure” to capture the Judge twice in the past. Dick is constantly thinking about the Judge’s victims, forcing himself to carry their lives on his shoulder. He pushes himself to toxic lengths. Whenever the Judge escapes his grasp, the conflict evolves, the stakes are raised, and the tension builds. Dick’s desperation becomes visceral to the reader, and that is what humanizes him to the reader. Similarly, the emotional pay-off of the climactic battle in the end grows with each obstacle Dick faces.

(Humphries, Sam, writer. Chang, Bernard, illustrator The Untouchable: Chapter Four: Infiltration. Nightwing: Rebirth no. 38, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2018. pp. 09)

But Dick’s newbie incompetence is not the only way Taylor mischaracterizes Dick. It is by combining the lighthearted tone of his story, his depiction of Dick as a blank canvas “good guy,” his avoidance of conflict, and his attempts at answering difficult real-world problems that Taylor ends up creating a version of Dick Grayson that is utterly self-absorbed and lacking in foresight.

Telling and not showing is an immense problem in Taylor’s writing. There’s a difference between how a writer attempts to portray a character and how, given their actions in the context of the narrative created, the story shows them to be the complete opposite. In such cases, the story triumphs over the writer. This is why I claim that, though Taylor tells the reader that Dick is caring, intelligent, and a hard worker, he actually shows Dick as as selfish, incompetent, and naive.  

Take, as an example, how Taylor sidelines the Heartless storyline in favor of slice-of-life scenes. If Heartless was not there, perhaps those sweet moments could be just that. However, as in the world of the story there is currently a serial killed running around free, making orphans out of the youth Dick vowed to protect, the fact that Dick is not constantly working to catch Heartless is not only out of character, it makes it so it seems he doesn't care what happens to the people of Bludhaven (And now also Gotham, given #111, which was released as this essay was being edited). Rather than stopping crime and bringing justice to Heartless’ victims, Dick would rather spend his nights in his apartment, enjoying a relaxing evening with his girlfriend and his dog. 

Please do not take this to mean that I consider a slice-of-life story to be inferior to other genres. My reason for highlighting this is not to undermine the value of slice-of-life, but rather to argue that such scenes do not live in isolation. They exist within the context of a larger narrative, and what would be sweet in a sitcom-style story comes across as something entirely different when other characters are facing life-and-death stakes. It does not matter how much the writer tells us that these characters are caring and compassionate — their lack of action and urgency portrays them as self-centered. 

Just as Taylor attempts to write the big climatic moments without properly building the momentum necessary to make them impactful, he similarly forgoes the work required to win the reader’s trust, and instead expects his audience to simply accept that important plot and character developments are happening off-screen. Rather than letting the audience experience the intrigue and devastation of the Heartless mystery by showing us how the horrors of these murders motivate Dick to continuously search for this cruel killer, Taylor instead advances these elements off-screen, opting instead to tell the reader they’ve occurred.

That is not to say that writers cannot streamline plots. They absolutely can and, in some cases, they absolutely should. However, streamlining a subplot is a far more complicated matter than just telling the reader said events happened off-screen and expecting them to simply accept it. 

While it is impossible to provide a precise checklist with the step-by-step guidelines on how to properly streamline a subplot, I believe one of the factors one must consider is whether that plot should be streamlined or not. Personally, I believe that Dick investigating the character who was meant to be this run’s main villain is too big and too important of a story to be played off offscreen.

Dick has hardly spent any time attempting to apprehend Heartless. Instead, as time of writing, his investigation of Heartless has practically nonexistent. Instead, after not focusing on him for the majority of the run, we are simply told by Dick and Babs that they’ve been keeping an eye on Heartless, even if their investigation is never shown to us. 

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Basri, Sami Nightwing. Nightwing: Rebirth. 111, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2023. pp 09)

If we, as readers, are to believe that Dick is the selfless detective and hero — the Heart of the DCU — that Taylor tell us he is, then finding and apprehending Heartless should be one of his top priorities. If Heartless was meant to be Nightwing’s big nemesis, then their confrontation should always be a source of great tension and conflict. Such importance would be demonstrated by showing Dick working towards stopping him at every moment he has free. But either those moments are not happening at all, or they are happening off-screen.

Having such an important conflict and such a crucial antagonistic dynamic develop does nothing to enrich the plot — in fact, it only detracts from them, for because we do not get to witness this relationship grow and we are only told that it is happening, the pay off that must come when Nightwing and Heartless finally have a big confrontation will be cheapened as a result. 

Heartless' actions are so brutal and create such urgency that not prioritizing Heartless' arrest makes it seem like Dick doesn't care about his victims. Batman doesn't wait around when the Joker breaks out of Arkham – he hunts the Joker down. Similarly, Dick didn't wait around on the Judge – he hunted him down. 

For Heartless to be the Big Bad, Dick should have put him in jail already and Heartless should have escaped. DIck should have faced him multiple times. He should have been Dick's priority because of how cruel and urgent his actions are.

Finally, there are three particular moments that I wish to discuss to illustrate how ambivalent Taylor is when it comes to Dick’s characterization, choosing to prioritize online discourse over who Dick Grayson’s established history and personality. 

The first one comes from a throwaway line. And yet, because this was a throwaway line that demonstrated how little thought Taylor gives to his main character. 

When Tim makes his first appearance in Taylor’s run in #80, Dick’s narration says that many would consider Tim to be the best Robin, and that he “totally gets it.”

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator.  Leaping into the Light Part Three. Nightwing: Rebirth. 80, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 09)

“Who is the best Robin” is a discourse that I, admittedly, care very little for. It serves no purpose other than to get fans to fight one another, bashing each other’s favorite characters in order to prop up their own. When posed on social media, this question becomes a thinly veiled attempt to generate high engagement. In reality, when people discuss “who is the best Robin,” they are, most often than not, truly arguing about who is their favorite Robin. But the question is framed in a way to be purposefully divisive, creating conflict within the fan community. The fact that DC plays into that divisiveness that requires their characters to be brought down so others can be lifted up for marketing material is concerning, but the fact that writers such as Taylor are letting that fan perception bleed into in-universe narration is nothing less than lazy writing that prioritizes online leaning into buzz over good storytelling.  

Naturally, as a Dick Grayson fan my opinion is that Tim is not the best Robin. Dick is. But my problem is not that Taylor said that Tim was the better Robin, but that I think Dick would never concede to the existence of a “best Robin.” In fact, not only do I believe that it is out of character for Dick to believe that one Robin can be defined as the best Robin, I would argue that Dick would be offended that such a question could be asked.

Dick, more than any of the other Robins, understands the purpose of a Robin, as he was the one who created the mantle. By seeing so many others inherit his family’s colors and his mother’s name for him, he also understands better than anyone that each person who becomes Robin has their purpose in their own unique way. Dick would understand how each of them made the Robin mantle unique, how they added to its mythos in their own way, and how all of their contributions are equally valid and equally important. He would never single out one of them as the best because he knows that Robin is about an ideal of justice by bringing light into the darkness. Most importantly, understanding how many Robins tied their self-worth to the mantle, Dick would never want others to feel as if they fell short of some arbitrary measure by proclaiming they are not “the best.” Dick would be against that measure, against the very idea of ranking Robins, as if they were interchangeable, as if they each didn’t make relevant contributions. He would hate the idea of the mantle he created in honor of his parents being used to judge and measure the worth of those he loves. Dick would argue that there can never be a "best Robin" because Robin is always about being your best self in the service of those who need your help, and you can't quantify that.

The concept of a “Best Robin” is a marketing strategy and a fan-oriented discourse that Taylor casually imposed into the narrative without considering whether his protagonist would adhere to such ideas. He prioritized internet discourse over characterization, and while the former may be immediately fulfilling as the page is cropped and shared a few thousand times in the first few days after publication, only the latter will leave an impression that will last decades. Taylor is embodying a current DC Comics trend to favor the former over the latter. As scholar Steve Baxi said in his review of Leaping into the Light, that page “doesn’t feel like Dick Grayson appreciating his brother, it feels like Dick Grayson saying what the audience wants to hear.” (Baxi, Steve, “TRADE COLLECTION REVIEW: Nightwing Vol. 1 - Leaping Into The Light” Comics Bookcase, August 2021)

Although they share similar problems, unlike the “Tim is the best Robin” throwaway narration, the second example I wish to discuss in detail became a big plot point in the beginning of Taylor’s run. I’m referring to the choice of having Dick become a billionaire due to the inheritance Alfred left to him.

To be more clear, my problem is not with the fact that Taylor made Dick into a billionaire (after all, Dick inheriting wealth from his parents is not a novel concept), but rather with Dick’s musings on the subject. (Dick’s financial situation is inconsistent across the years. While some like Dixon and Wolfman allude to him having a trust fund his parents set aside and that remained untouched until Dick’s adulthood, other writers like Humphrey who portray him as more middle class and sometimes struggling financially. Then there are the numerous times in which Dick was left homeless, implying that he did not have a safety fund to go to when tragedy struck.) On #79, Dick says, without a hint of irony, that he always thought that Bruce could do more to help Gotham with Bruce Wayne’s money than he does as Batman. 

(Taylor, Tom. writer, Redondo, Bruno, illustrator Leaping into the Light Part Two. Nightwing: Rebirth. 79, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 07)

This is a popular online discourse that reveals lack of knowledge about Batman and a naive understanding of how corrupt systems function. I understand we are currently very critical (and rightly so) of billionaires and the hoarding of wealth. I understand that this leads many — media critics and everyday fans — to analyzing how wealth is portrayed in the stories that resonate within our culture. But anyone who claims that Bruce has not used his wealth for the benefit of Gotham outside of funding his Batman endeavors has not engaged properly with Batman media. I’m not going to go into the merits of how Bruce’s wealth should or should not be portrayed and how DC has currently been handling this issue (that is the subject for an entirely different essay that is not relevant to this discussion), but I will say that Bruce has, canonically, used a lot of his money to fund safety net programs in Gotham, to invest in small businesses and on individuals, and in trying to make the city more affordable and kinder to those with less. 

Twitter user Ashley|TheBatFamily 🦇 (@TheBat_Family) created a comprehensive Twitter thread of examples. These are but some of the ones that stood out to me and that feel most relevant to this essay:

In Cataclysm, Bruce attempted to lobby the US government to offer aid to Gotham after the earthquake; 

Bruce used his money to rebuild the city during No Man’s Land;

Bruce invested in the people who were ready to start new businesses so Gotham could offer jobs to its people and rebuild itself without being fully dependent on others;

Bruce created scholarships so more people could attend university;

Bruce funds Leslie’s free clinic as well as other hospitals around Gotham;

Bruce invested on low-income housing developments in Gotham by working with local firms, providing accommodations to local residents so no one would be displaced;

Bruce expanded and modernized Gotham’s public transportation system;

Bruce ensured all Wayne properties were secured against earthquakes (which led to those residences being the only ones standing during NML);

Bruce funds libraries and museums;

Bruce funds green efforts not just in Gotham, but in other places by buying land and making them nature preserves;

Bruce funds orphanages and provided them resources (from educational supplies to toys for the children);

Bruce provided support for immigrants;

Bruce funds appeals for wrongful convictions;

Bruce provides employment for former convicts;

(Ashley [TheBat_Family]. Twitter, 13 October 2020, https://twitter.com/TheBat_Family/status/1316006509923520512.)

In short, Bruce Wayne has done everything and more that Dick claimed he wished to do for Bludhaven. There’s nothing novel about the idea. Batman narratives don’t put as much focus on these endeavors and do not place as much emphasis on Bruce’s philanthropy simply because they Batman stories are, at their core, detective stories first and foremost. Their focus is on investigation and crime solving (Though I would argue that Cataclysm and No Man’s Land put a lot of focus on issues of wealth, class, and examine Bruce’s financial responsibility towards the city).

But just because these examples are not the focus of the stories in which they are present, it does not mean that they do not exist. Neither does it mean that Batman stories do not engage with themes of wealth and class inequality, as well as systemic corruption. In fact, I would argue that many of the best ones know how to use Bruce’s privileged status to explore these issues. The Court of Owls by Scott Snyder, for example, brilliantly uses the Court and the Talons to engage with these themes. (An essay analyzing the Court of Owls through such a lens would be a fascinating study, especially when exploring the parallels and foils between the Court and the Talons, and Bruce and Dick. Alas, this is not the place for it.)

Dick, who not only has always been characterized as knowing Bruce better than most people,  but who was also raised by Bruce, would know about every single one of the examples listed above. Dick, of all people, had a front row seat to all the ways in which Bruce helped Gotham with his wealth, both in examples that were covered by the press, and the ones Bruce did secretly without taking credit. Dick attended countless fundraising events, press briefs, boardroom meetings. But most importantly, Dick would have witnessed with his very own eyes that lack of funding is not at the root of Gotham’s problems.  The problem in Gotham is not lack of money or safety nets, but rather, it is that its systems are so corrupt that pumping more funds into it will do nothing to help those in need. Instead, it will only further enrich those who are already in power. That’s why in this comic book world with comic book conventions and comic book logic, Batman is needed. Batman is a disruption to the system, forcing it to change, dismantling it from both the outside and the inside. In Dixon and Grayson’s Nightwing runs, Dick’s understanding of systematic problems can be observed in his motivation to become a police officer, as he joins the force with the goal to weed out the corruption and dismantle the system from within. Money alone cannot save a city if the foundation was purposefully designed to favor those on the top by taking from those at the bottom.

(Dixon, Chuck, writer. McCarthy, Trevor, illustrator The Threshold. Nightwing. 60, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2001. pp 22)

But of course, Taylor never takes a moment to wonder how being raised by Bruce Wayne would influence Dick’s perspective on this matter. Instead, he once more takes a popular online discourse and makes Dick say it out without considering characterization. A more in-character and canonically accurate approach to such a story moment would have Dick comment on all the ways Bruce used his money behind the scenes to help Gotham, and how he wishes to do the same for Bludhaven. A single line change would have demonstrated Taylor's willingness to engage with Dick’s character history rather than just copying the hot takes he sees on social media. 

Not only that, this change in dialogue would also establish Bruce and Dick’s closeness as it would show that not only is Bruce a source of inspiration for Dick, but that Dick is one of the few people who have seen this side of Bruce. That would have also made the hug between Bruce and Dick in the #100 more emotionally effective and thematically cohesive, especially as they are in front of Alfred’s grave.

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator Power Vacuum: Part Four: The Leap. Nightwing: Rebirth. 100, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2023. pp 44)

The truth is that Dick's Haven project engaged with issues homelessness only in the most shallow of manners. Rather than discussing the realities of this matter, it simply used it as a backdrop. It is an appropriation of hardships by someone who is unwilling to engage with the difficulties brought upon by said hardships. It is substance-less writing masquerading as social consciousness.

The third example I wish to cite which demonstrates Taylor’s lack of consideration for Dick’s character or his backstory comes when Haley is taken in #87. Dick’s internal monologue reads that “The last thing I’d want is for anyone to be threatened because they’re close to Dick Grayson,” referring to the fact that he is now a public figure thanks to the press conference he gave about his plans for Bludhaven. 

(Taylor, Tom, writer. Redondo, Bruno, illustrator Get Grayson. Nightwing: Rebirth. 87, e-book ed. DC Comics, 2021. pp 09)

The idea that Dick Grayson, billionaire Bruce Wayne’s first child, was unaware of the dangers faced by those associated with a public figure is laughable. The idea that the first Robin, who was often taken hostage by villains who wished to get to Batman (so much so that Frank Miller famously nicknamed him “Boy Hostage”), did not understand the threat posed to those who are close to powerful figures is insulting. After well over a decade as a superhero, and after well over a decade of being associated with a wealthy public figure, Dick should know better than most how such ties can put loved ones at risk. 

In-universe, this line makes Dick appear so self-centered that he does not take into consideration how his actions affect his loved ones. It makes him appear dense, unable to think through his actions and strategize contingency plans and safety precautions before taking such a giant risk. 

Out of universe, this betrays a lazy way of storytelling, with Taylor going for low-hanging fruits without thinking of how that might affect the characterization of his protagonist. Out of universe, a collection of throwaway, thoughtless lines like this demonstrates just how uninterested Taylor is in giving even the slightest consideration to who Dick Grayson is meant to be, instead putting his focus on the gimmick that will get him noticed on social media.

[fennekinmon]

Dale didn't know when he got on this train that seems to be going on forver going somwhere or towards a dead end, or its just forever going nowhere. He sometimes sees his younger self, malnourished, dirty, battered hair still in shock of finally getting out the lemonade stand cellar next to him just in daze.

No one seems to ever enters this train, and the train never stops, but shadowy figures appear sometimes and just look at him as they disapear as fast as they appear. With the distance sound of people talking as no one is able to be seen as the wheels rumble under the track as the sound of train horn wails out though the night. No one should be on this train and dale is glad of one small factor of this train ride.

Dev is never going to enter this train.

Okay now onto my opinion on dale, which is conflicting feeling. One his is the most entertaining adult antagonist in the show that isn't a returning villain and dev being is in a greyish area of is he good now or are going back to dev being a menace. Two when i was sketching dale in my sketchbook, i know the showrunners made dale pathetic to make us not like him but when i was drawing him, i felt myself liking him more. Three his is able to flexible with how much worse and good he can be because dale is a piece of shit character with some very noticable flaws especially with his backstory, he can get even worse or better and it can work.

Dale is also just great for fanfics, he can be the antagonist or be better or just a character study of him since you know the disconnect between nectar of the odds and a new wish. Also we have no idea how dev was conceived, so any interpretation of how dev came to be can be intresting and with how it can used characterized dale.

[kiragecko]

cherrystainedknuckles

I guess the only problem with being asked to take a “marie kondo approach” is that in order to find any fanfic that appears to be based in actual canon timeline and plot points and characterization (which does exist, and I’m not sure why fanon fans seem insistent that it doesn’t), I literally have to search for hours. I’m not joking, I consistently make fic rec lists, and I have to search for hours and hours for actual canonical basis. same thing with character tags on tumblr.

I’m not saying fanon fans have to stop enjoying fanon or making up their own content. I’m just saying that when the tags used for both fanon tim drake and canon tim drake are the same tag it just becomes incredibly annoying sometimes, and I understand why people who like to engage with canon (me, often) become frustrated

-

I have definitely had periods where I got incredibly frustrated with fanon! Around 2019, I was wondering if I needed to leave the Batfandom, because it had been so long since I read a new fic where the characters felt 'right'.

-

But, if you're willing to, I'd like you to consider what you mean when you divide 'fanon' from 'canon'. Because I struggle to find a hard line between the two, for several reasons:

1. Fandom is transformative. Every fanfic is going to have some interpretation of the source material. The line between what is too much interpretation and what is acceptable is different for every person. For me, I find it can even vary based on writing style or other odd things - lighthearted fic can have more noncanonical stuff in it than heavier fic, and still seem true to canon.

2. 'Canon' is subjective. I do not consider the movies or video games to be 'canon', and it annoys me when things from those creep into the fic I'm reading. (I'm okay with SOME Battinson.) Some aspects of the cartoons are okay. I consider precrisis Jason Todd to be an alternate reality version, but Donna's precrisis origins are more canonical than the dumb retcons. Wayne Family Adventures isn't my main version of the characters, but I'm not bothered if some elements show up in my stories. I'm ignoring most of the nu52, but I like Duke and I'm still watching this new Lian to see what happens. I doubt your divisions are identical to mine.

(Also, some things that I think of as 'fanon' have shown up in nu52 canon! I do not accept them as any more canon because of this.)

3. Most 'fanon' is based on canon. Canon Tim has weird sleep habits. 90s Dick is really lighthearted and joking around some characters in ways similar to fanon. Dick can canonically not be trusted to take care of himself if his mental health gets low enough. Jason likes classical literature. Etc.

These are exaggerated and/or twisted in a lot of fic, but where is the line where they stop being canon? I wouldn't bat an eye at a lot of this stuff, if it didn't show up SO OFTEN.

4. Most 'fanon fans' do know some canon. What line are you going to set where it will be 'enough'. And are they allowed to mention parts of the canon they haven't read yet? Is anyone allowed to talk about Dick's early Robin days, or only the tiny amount of people who have read the golden age stuff? A lot of the 'mistakes' I see are obviously made by people who have read ABOUT canon, but don't know quite how it fits together.

5. 'Canon' is FULL of contradictions. Yes, there are canon events. Yes, there is characterization that is consistent across 3/4s of comics. But. I'm still working on my sidekick timeline. I've devoted days to figuring out ages and passage of time. I've spent over a decade trying to figure out Jason Todd's motivations, and why Tim treats him the way he does. I've read all the 90s and early 2000s CANONICAL character assassination of Jason.

I spent years thinking that Donna's death was almost as foundational as Jason's, only to later discover that I had just happened to read the specific comics that focused on the fallout, and she only stayed dead for a short time. That happens to fans ALL THE TIME! We read a character summarizing an event we haven't directly read, and just accept it as what happened. But characters have biases, and not all writers care about accuracy.

-

I've read some Tim Drakes that I consider to be almost entirely 'fanon'. And quite a few that were so scarily 'canon' that I got chills. (Not all of which were similar to each other.) But the vast, vast majority have fallen somewhere in the middle.

I definitely do not want the responsibility of deciding which ones count as 'canon'! And I think I would strongly dislike anyone who tried to decide for me.

Being frustrated is logical, and I empathize. But the original post was about the impossible expectations some fans feel. The expectation to read thousands of comics, synthesize all the contradictions, and come to conclusions that match the 'true fans'. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to be complaining about.

If that's what some fans are experiencing, of course they're not going to want to engage with canon! There's no way for them to succeed, so why should they even try?

When you join THAT conversation to discuss your frustration about fanon, it strengthens that perception. When you call them 'fanon fans' it emphasizes their belief that you don't think they belong. And rather than trying to change, it's more likely that they'll double down. Canon is full of gatekeepers, so they'll avoid it.

[markantonys]

"Rand's misguided chivalry is a central flaw of his character. If you remove it from his character in the show he's not the same character anymore." I have seen this argument few times about Rand and I have never understood it and strongly disagree. I always felt that his central flaw was believing he has to do everything alone. And his chivalry as it's depicted in the books simply wouldn't work with how show Rand has been characterized thus far.

Like, show Rand actually respects women as individuals whereas book Rand puts them on pedestals (I love him but it's true). I am curious how the show is gonna handle his conflict with the Maidens cause I can't see show Rand forbidding them from fighting cause they're women. The only thing I can think of that the show might do is he's hurt when they in particular die cause they're all he has left of his birth mom cause she was a Maiden.

100% agreement! imo many readers mistake "X is a big thing in the books" for "X is an important thing in the books" (though of course, we all have our own personal opinions on what is important or not based on our own individual interpretations of the story, so MY opinions on what's important or not are hardly right all the time either!). is misguided chivalry a big thing with rand in the books? yes. but does it affect the story or his character development in a significant way? i'd argue it doesn't, in the sense that the same narrative purposes can be accomplished by making his attitudes gender-neutral. if you change "rand has a problem with women dying for him" to "rand has a problem with anyone dying for him", or "rand wants to protect women" to "rand wants to protect everyone", or "rand/LTT is traumatized by his murder of his wife" to "rand/LTT is traumatized by his murder of his whole family", that doesn't alter the core of his story & character. the core of rand is someone who's so afraid of and guilty about hurting the people around him that he pushes them away and tries to carry all his burdens alone; there's no narrative need for him to have a specific hangup about women getting hurt, and that core doesn't change if that hangup is removed.

plus, multiple male characters share the same hangup about women getting hurt. how can misguided chivalry be soooo central to Rand Specifically when mat and perrin also suffer from it? when practically every society in WOTworld is set up to keep women from being soldiers or participating in situations where they might be harmed? even the aiel & seanchan place restrictions on what women are allowed to be warriors (only the unmarried & childless, because as soon as you become a man's wife or a child's mother your most important duty is now staying alive and safe For Them; meanwhile husbands and fathers have 0 restrictions from being warriors in any WOTworld society). imo it was much more of an internal cultural bias on RJ's part than it was a specific character choice for rand and rand alone (which is not a knock on RJ; all storytellers have their own internal biases that they bring to their stories, it's human nature! but not all of those biases are required for the story to work, and it's also human nature for adaptors to replace the original creator's biases with their own.)

it's also worth noting that the show is being made in a different time than the books. no matter what some readers think, a story being told in a different time HAS to be altered to better suit the audience of that time. we're supposed to sympathize with rand, but most viewers in the 2020s would find his benevolent misogyny irritating and frustrating, and it would turn them off of his character and make them find it difficult to understand or sympathize with his actions or his trauma. as someone who came into WOT brand-new in the 2020s, i had absolutely ZERO sympathy for any of rand's moaning about Must Protect The Women and all of that stuff accomplished nothing besides making me want to bang his head against a wall (i still love him though lmao). it was genuinely detrimental to the pain i was supposed to feel from rand's arc because i kept getting annoyed instead of sad! and i would be FAR from the only brand-new-to-WOT-in-the-2020s person to feel that way if the show had included that angle. for example, rand struggling to hurt lanfear ~because she's a woman~ and moiraine "dying" as a result would have 2020s audiences screaming at him for being a fucking moron, and a sexist fucking moron to boot. rand struggling to hurt lanfear because he's wrestling with extremely complicated feelings for Her Specifically due to the situationship she manipulated him into and moiraine "dying" as a result will be a hell of a lot more sympathetic to 2020s audiences and will allow the genuine tragedy of that moment to come across.

that's really what adaptation in a different time is all about: look at the intended emotional effect of a scene in the original work, and alter the scene as needed in order to inspire the same emotional effect in these different times. because 1990s audiences are different from 2020s audiences and sometimes it takes different methods to give them the same emotional reaction.

as for the maidens, in addition to your reasoning, it'd be super easy to simply say "the maidens are the sub-group among all rand's armies that he feels emotionally closest to, hence their deaths hit him the hardest." there's a really familial relationship that develops there - of course rand would be cut up when members of his Found Family die! there's no reason it needs to be related to the maidens being women. rand's behavior with them would change 0%, it would only be the motive behind that behavior that's different (different and far less annoying, and thus more moving and emotionally impactful).

[ganondoodle]

I was at first in love with totk, and I still think mechanical wise, its quite impressive

And when I collected all the tears and saw the "story" I genuinely got upset in a good way (at first), because man! Did they really got the balls to go that far? Is there nothing I can do for her? Now I MUST do all the temples, see how it plays out and --oh, I've got this cutscene already. Why are all the people so dumb about Zelda, I KNOW where she is, Link say something-- Link??

After finishing all the temples and almost falling asleep, I stopped playing the game, looked up the last boss and remaining cutscenes and went "Thats it?"

Watching other people (including you) being critically about so many things, both character and mechanical wise, I've almost startled myself with a realization what the gnawing feeling I constantly had, actually was.

Totk feels like a fanfic.

And don't get me wrong, I love fanfiction, I think its great and important, I adore fanfic writers, I love finding gems, I love reading self indulgent stories, see new spins and interpretation of characters. I love the casual, the passion, the creativity!

But totk gives me the same feeling everytime I am reminded that Fifty Shades is a Twillight fanfic.

The world is there. The faces I know and grew to love are there. But everything is ever so slightly different, uncannily so. Just how some characters talk, how they act, how they were placed in the story. The Zonai appearing out of nowhere, but no, they always had been there you see, they were these super magical advanced people but they all died, the king is so tragic. And you see, the king is super cool and powerful and-- oh I dont get to interact with him outside of the tutorial. Did they try to do another King Rhoam-- but wait, that only worked because we didn't knew he was a ghost-- totk wait stop why do you take him out of the story, why couldn't he be a companion, he IS ABLE TO TALK THROUGH THE ARM LET THE OLD GOAT COMMENT ON STUFF?? If you bring up all this ancient stuff and you still got a ghost lingering, let him talk?? (I never ended up getting Mineru but I smell wasted potential as well)

Im not even mad, I am disappointed. It feels like the devs saw what all the lore hunters got attached to and talked about and then just... took the "cool". All the Zonai stuff could've easily been Sheikah tech, but got just reskinned to look more exciting instead of being its own thing.

Like... at this point I prefer what fans are doing over what Totk gave us. The characterization of Rauru (and everything Zonai), projects like you do of what totk couldve been, the little nuggets of actual highlights and details of love fans find in the game. I found much more enjoyment in these concepts than I got from a 70bucks game. And thats depressing.

I love fanfiction. I dont love it when my corporate 70 dollar, six year development, console exclusive game feels like a story that passionate fan couldve written miles better in a week (and I've already seen much cooler and interesting rewrites and ideas).

Zelda has been a huge part of my childhood and its depressing seeing it treated like that. It always was about the story, the epic, its The Legend of Zelda for crying out loud. To be courageous to enter a dungeon, to be wise and solve all the riddles. To become powerful over the journey you embarked on. Zelda to me is the campfire story you tell to others and go into the woods or the beach and imagine what monsters you would slay. Zelda is not the sandcastle you build in the sandbox and then add dinosaurs and star wars ships because you didn't had any other toys, and just stumble into and over some story to entertain yourself until lunch is ready.

I'd have an oracle of seasons over another totk any day at this point. They should've just make the mechanics of totk its own thing, but I guess they were scared it wouldn't sell if it doesn't have a Mario or Zelda skin straped over it.

Anyways, sorry for the mini rant - love your art, love your thoughts and insights, and I am looking forward to see more of it - Zelda related or not (your original characters look amazing, I adore your style sm)

Hope you have a great rest of the day!

*nods along through this entire rant*

idk how many of my rants you have read but yeah ... yeah ... and the further you think about it the further it all falls apart, the wasted potential of it all and the goddamn audacity of them to do those interviews in which they make it EVEN WORSE is just

i know the expectation for a direct sequel to botw was huge and understandbly so but i really REALLY think it would not have been that hard to make it a good follow up even taking into account that totk was originally a DLC, pretty much all of botws aspects could have been developed further, i dont know what could have happened to make totk have turned out like this .. literally it feels like something had to have gone wrong, its like someone who doesnt know zelda nor botw at all was given a few prompts and then just made some generic fantasy story while the rest worked on ultrahand for 5 years

the technical impressive things ARE technical impressive, but i dont think it was necessary nor served the game well in any way (and i LOVE building games- however totk is neither a building game nor a story game nor a zelda game nor an exploration game nor a sequel imo) but zelda, this zelda, is not made for that and i cant help but think it was mainly to encourage people to make some ridiculous mechs so it can go viral on tiktok (not trying to discredit them, it IS cool what they are doing but i .... have my doubts if zelda is the right place for that)

ill stop there bc i have ranted so much about everything i dont wanna repeat it here again; it just doesnt feel like a real game (derogatory), it feels extra bad bc i was not really into zelda when botw came out and while i did get it as soon as i could (months after release since i just started a minijob and didnt have the money) i only over time grew to love zelda this much again, devouring any theories and anything about it bc i loved it so much- i was never into it like this when a new title was announced and dont own any special editions so i bought the totk collectors bc i was just so damn excited for it after the 2019 trailer dropped (god i want that time back ... it looked so much more like it was going to be an actual sequel) even if i was already worried it wouldnt be good at that point given how much i started to sense stuff i dont like about the newer trailers

i recently sold it at our local gameshop bc it was like a thorn in my side given how expensive it was and how dissapointed i was in the game, i genuinely think that, technical impressiveness aside, totk is the onyl zelda i truly cannot stand (for alot of reasons) and im genuinely worried for the future of the franchise

i bought an Oki (Okami) figurine for what i got back and i feel much happier with that :3

(also on a note, i did finish the game two weeks after release but stopped playing it right then and hadnt touched it since, i also streamed all of what i played and its still up if you want to see my slow descend into madness fjkdhkdhjk though its been a long while since then and i by far did not talk about everything back then, just what my most immediate frustrations were while still playing)

(also the gameplay isnt as good as people make it out to be, so much is so frustrating and punishing to use i am kinda baffled it got through like that and most people call that its best aspect ..... though i guess if the rest is so much worse even mid gameplay can seem good ooooooooh how dare i)

also thank you for liking what i do!!! <3 it means alot to know it is appreciated by someone :D

[theheirofthesharingan]

In defense of my pov and maybe I wasn't very clear in the ask... I do think the point of Itachi in the earlier arcs is that he is meant to come across as one dimensional (of course to writers and those who read a lot this actually should equal something potentially being incredibly fishy), so when we get the conspiracy reveal after his death I mean that I wasn't surprised there was more to it and I love how it threw every interpretation of his actions from beginning to end into a new light. (And I realize I forgot to fix a sentence and I love Itachi now, but when I first encountered naruto in my early teens, he honestly didn't scare me that much 😅, he comes into town, doesn't kill any of the main characters because that point in the story wouldn't have made sense for such a thing, and then he leaves, seemingly on a tactically considered whim which fits his characterization at that time)

I also think it's actually incredibly important that Orochimaru and Itachi are both meddling in Sasuke's lives at the same time, which is why I brought them up as a "comparison" even though their motives are never even remotely the same! Orochimaru is horrific as an individual and a villain, but from a narrative standpoint serves as an incredibly effective smokescreen. Orochimaru is an immediate threat from the moment he is introduced, he's a constant and threatening presence and Sasuke goes and exposes himself to that for years which leaves him very little time to introspect on the circumstances around his family's death.

Itachi on the other hand is more of a goal than a threat. He's dangerous, we see enough of him vs other cast members like Jiraiya and Kakashi for that, and he very badly wants Sasuke to pursue him (seen as early as the hotsprings town attack and later made abundantly clear to be because he wants Sasuke to spend his vengeance on him, although even that reasoning is multi layered). He's one of Sasuke's primary enemies, but he functions so differently from Orochimaru that the audience just sees him as a different kind of big bad is all.

(Sorry for the long explanation, I just don't want you to think I'm stupid 😅 but I also might be coming at my interpretations from a different place than you and that's fine too! I appreciate your first answer regardless and thank you for those panels! The manga is so long that I definitely forget things.)

For the purposes of my own work, I often think of how information is compartmentalized in the village... because other members of the konoha 11 also come to the conclusion Sasuke should be killed, but the tactical ones have different justifications than Sakura if I'm remembering correctly? I think they're mostly meant to parrot the village policies, esp since they're secondary characters at best, just cementing the way that villages sacrifice individual members for the sake of less war (which is different than real peace!), but it still makes for some interesting considerations of how much/what other characters know and where they get their information from.

Anyways, sorry again for the long ask but thank you for so much uchiha content!

Oh, of course. Initially, he is meant to be a one dimensional villain, and there are hints dropped to give him more nuance, which make sense after the truth reveal. When we move towards the chapters/episodes leading to his death, the story starts to explore his fragility while he's still a villain.

His reveal didn't surprise me. It devastated me. I've been one of those who had some gist of him not being evil, but the tragedy was entirely unexpected.

If you love Itachi too, then welcome to our hell because we suffer forever here, loving both the brothers.

Don't worry, I loved reading your interpretation of both Itachi and Orochimaru and their influence on Sasuke. Itachi is a big deal because even though Sasuke faces an actual threat from Orochimaru, he isn't scared of him. But whenever he sees Itachi, his reactions are always intense. And even after their battle, he was completely shaking, even if he knew Itachi would have exhausted his chakra too. The only person Sasuke was really scared of was probably Itachi. Other than Itachi being invincible, there were a lot of feelings. Itachi had been cruel to him. Not only physically or psychologically but also emotionally. The only one who could dismantle him was Itachi. And Sasuke had all the unanswered questions in his mind because from his POV, his beloved brother one day stopped loving him when he'd always been so supportive of him.

I think other Konoha Shinobi wanting to kill Sasuke is different from her wanting to kill Sasuke. They didn't love him, they didn't care about him, and that also includes Kakashi. She claimed to love him, and concluded that he needed to die for his own sake. I have no expectations from Konoha 11 and I don't care about their opinions on Sasuke either. But she married Sasuke and never bothered to know why he changed so suddenly and why he would want his brother back. Does she even know anything about the Uchiha clan and its history? And what happened with Itachi and all? Probably not.

Don't worry about the long ask. It's totally fine. Thank you. :)

[musicalmoritz]

I am hopeful about how the anime will adapt TeruAoi

Hear me out, one of the most common complaints about the writing of the manga is that Teru’s crush on Aoi doesn’t make any sense. There’s still the possibility he could like Akane instead (or the even less likely possibility he could like both), but right now it’s strongly looking like his crush is Aoi. I know, I wanted gay people too, but this is what we’re working with. There are hints throughout the manga that he likes her, but most of those come in the form of jokes where he’s trying to get a rise out of Akane. That actually provides more evidence towards him liking Akane than Aoi, since in those scenes he’s focused on how Akane is feeling rather than Aoi herself. So if AidaIro intend on us to pick up on TeruAoi, they’ve done a very poor job. I’d argue that the ship thrives off of heteronormativity, most straight readers (and even many queer ones) will automatically assume Teru likes Aoi and not Akane simply because he’s a boy and she’s a girl. It’s a reasonable assumption, queer rep still isn’t common enough to be the default. But it’s not a great basis for building an actual relationship, even a one-sided one

Look at Kou and Nene, that’s a one-sided relationship that was written well while still making it clear who we’re supposed to be rooting for. TBHK isn’t a love triangle like Twilight, we’re not meant to have equal fuel for both sides because AidaIro ultimately care that we support HanaNene. Kou and Nene have had numerous scenes building their friendship and, by extension, Kou’s feelings for her. However, most of these scenes are intercepted by HanaNene and Mitsukou moments. Their most notable ship moment, the donut scene, was used so that Nene could cheer Hanako up. This method gives Kounene plenty of buildup to where Kou’s feelings for her make sense without disrupting either of the main pairings. It’s also remedied by the fact that Kou gets another love interest fairly early on, so he’s not stuck in the role of the “second choice” for long. That was never really part of his arc but I digress

A lot of my points here are up for interpretation or preference, some fans don’t have a problem with how TeruAoi has been built up. It’s not going to be engame, so some might even say it doesn’t matter. But with Teru’s feelings for her being such a consistent thing throughout the manga, I’d say it’s fairly important that they’re set up well. It’s central to the dynamic of the Sunflower Troupe too, which is even more important. Teru’s feelings for Aoi play into the Terukane rivalry that is so integral to their dynamic, and towards motivating Teru during the Red House arc. Keep in mind, if TeruAoi were well-written, the fandom wouldn’t be so divided on whether or not Aoi is Teru’s crush

There is still the chance that it’s been kept vague for a reason and Teru is actually gay. Please AidaIro it’s not too late-

Despite the negative tone of everything you just read, I love TeruAoi. I’m content with it being canon, although I would rather have Terukane if I’m being honest. I’m a multishipper though, so I want to make it clear that I am by no means a TeruAoi hater. On the contrary, I think they have a lot of potential, and I hope the anime doesn’t waste the opportunity to explore that. So onto the actual point of this rant

THIS CHAPTER. The one that somewhat salvaged TeruAoi’s lazy writing. The chapter that brought TeruAoi shippers rain after a drought. We’re going to see it animated in October. And I am going insane over that

The anime is known for being a poor adaptation of the manga, but in my opinion it has its benefits and its drawbacks. One of the biggest drawbacks is Teru, they completely cut out the arc that delves into his childhood and dynamic with Kou. We lost a lot of his characterization and he essentially became a background character. My boy deserves better than that. But the two new trailers showed a lot of Teru from what I remember (it’s impossible for me to miss my king), and I’m taking that as a sign that they’ve realized his potential as a character. We might get the Young Exorcist arc in season 2, since it’s incredibly important to Kou and Teru’s development both as characters and as a sibling dynamic. This might be wishful thinking but now that they realize people like this series and want to see more of it, maybe they’ll start doing the side characters justice

One of the good points, and this is going to be very controversial, is AoiAoi. The number one complaint I’ve seen about the anime (besides the exclusion of the Young Exorcist arc), is that they nerfed Akane. I disagree. Yes, anime Akane is nothing but a goofy looking nerd who simps for Aoi, but that’s essentially what his character was in the first few arcs of the manga. They adapted him accurately for what they covered. You could just as well complain that Aoi is nothing but Nene’s popular best friend in the anime. That’s true, but only because they haven’t gotten to the Grim Reaper arc yet. The anime notoriously didn’t get to the Clock Keepers arc, but since we’re getting that in season 2, we’ll be seeing a lot more of anime Akane soon. And I don’t think he’s going to disappoint

“But how did they do AoiAoi well if they didn’t adapt much?” I’m so glad you asked. Not many people have pointed this out, but the anime clearly favored AoiAoi in comparison to the other side characters. They added in a lot of scenes that weren’t in the manga, such as their interaction in the garden and the “I’d cut off my own head” scene. I can’t remember them adding in many other scenes, besides Yako’s backstory, so they must have wanted some fan service. The anime really leans into the romance element (for better or worse), which is where I think they could do right by TeruAoi

We’ll be getting the iconic convenience store chapter in October, before season 2 of the anime comes out. This means we’ll get a meaningful TeruAoi moment animated before any meaningful AoiAoi moments have been animated, though AoiAoi has already been setup through the first seasons of TBHK and ASHK. So anime-onlys already know Akane and Aoi have feelings for each other, but before that gets explored in a serious manner, they’ll learn that Teru also potentially has feelings for Aoi. This is good, this will put the idea in viewers heads that Teru likes Aoi before he even jokes about liking her in the main series. The first time his feelings were mentioned in the manga was during the exam chapter, and that won’t get animated until season 3 or 4. So until then, they’ll already have the concept of TeruAoi. And they’ll be introduced to that concept through a serious episode rather than a gag scene of Teru threatening Akane

This will set up the group dynamic well while still upholding AoiAoi as the one we’re supposed to root for. They were established first, and we’ll get more insight into Akane’s feelings during the Clock Keepers arc. It won’t come at the expense of AoiAoi, but we’ll be shown a more serious TeruAoi scene to build them up as competition. That will balance out the two dynamics

I’m also hoping they add in a few scenes of TeruAoi the way they did with AoiAoi. The two aren’t really friends until the Grim Reaper arc, but they could throw in a few gag scenes of Teru sucking up to Aoi the way he’s mentioned to do in the manga. A scene of him being overly friendly to her in the hallway, offering to help her carry her bag, etc. And she could still shut him down in a polite way so they don’t lose the dynamic they have in the manga. I wouldn’t want them to do too much or give more confirmation of Teru’s feelings than we get at that point in the manga, but a few filler scenes could really help to build their relationship. At the very least, it would help Teru’s feelings make sense. But I’m already very optimistic since the TeruAoi episode of ASHK is already going to give Teru’s feelings more grounding. Releasing it before the two of them interact/mention each other in the main anime is honestly the best decision they could have made. It will be pleasantly unexpected to anime-onlys who haven’t seen the characters interact before and don’t know what their relationship is in the manga

Anyways, I know a lot of people are freaking out about the anime getting a season 2 (and I understand why), but I’m trying to stay hopeful. The first season was bad, but it’s a good introduction to the series. It was how I got into tbhk, and I felt it was a good start. It was enough to get me hyperfixated after just a few episodes so it’s not THAT bad (okay, it’s kinda bad). But they still have time to fix the major mistakes they made in season 2, as long as we get the Young Exorcist arc. And either way, ASHK is going to be delightful

[cecilysass]

Scully the ice queen?

I often see people talking about the “ice queen” trope in XF fanfic from the 90s as an example of fanon becoming ubiquitous in fanfic. If you don't know what I'm talking about, this is it in a nutshell: basically, fanfic in the 1990s began to make reference to Scully as a perceived “ice queen,” both at work and in her personal life, meaning that she didn’t express her emotions, that she was repressed and cold. And then that became a thing, a standard trope that other fanfic writers drew on.

My theory is that the “ice queen” / Scully association didn’t actually come from specific works of fic or from specific individuals.  I also don’t think it necessarily originated in fic and then crossed over into fan perceptions of Scully. I think it’s easy for 21st century fans to get the causal arrows mixed up on this because we're missing some historical context. I believe many viewers in the 1990s—not just fanfic writers—actually interpreted Scully differently than viewers now because they interpreted female characters differently. I think people in the 1990s were simply much more likely to interpret women serious about their professional lives as “ice queens.” Especially if their professional lives involved science.

Consider the below female scientist (P.K. Newby) writing about her graduate school experience in the 1990s.

Of course this still happens today, and of course it didn’t always happen in the 1990s. But I think it’s important that this impacted actual women living their lives in the same time period, because it’s reasonable that this also affected TV audiences’ perception of a character. 

I give you this message from the Usenet discussion group alt.tv.x-files, the first season of the show, from before the fanfic Usenet group was even created. This user characterizes Scully as an “ice queen,” claiming to notice a change after Darkness Falls, and even associating it with her skepticism specifically.

(This is me showing you the whole message with the date, then showing you parts close up because it's so tiny. I'm very dedicated.)

So in this (very early online fandom) conversation, we have a fan who already read her as an “ice queen” on their own without the filter of fanfic to sway them.

Now please don’t get me wrong. Fanfic definitely took hold of the Scully / ice queen thing and ran with it. There are many examples in the Usenet group during the 1990s of people asking, “Hey, which episode was Scully called ‘ice queen’ again? and people saying, ‘Oh never, ha, that’s just a fanfic thing.’” It was a well-established trope by at least 1997. See below.

I just want people to consider that it didn’t have to be one writer, one fic, or one incident that led to the popularization of this piece of fanon. This would have been something people understood right away because it already was culturally out there in the interpretation of the character and in associations with professional women. And like the person asking the question in the above message infers, it probably did come organically from several people at once. 

That said, some 1990s fans actively questioned it, observing it didn’t seem to fit with their interpretation of the show.

Notice that in the below conversation, Scully as ice queen is mixed up in perceptions of GA as ice queen, too. 

(Side note: I mean, you can totally get where that person was coming from, right? Gillian Anderson was TOTALLY giving repressed, cold, virginal saint in 1997.)

As a prolific reader of fanfic, old and new, I think it’s also important to add this: it seems to me that fanfic writers more often made “Ice Queen” a hurtful nickname that Scully was called by other people (like Mulder being called “Spooky”), not an actual characterization of her personality. And actually, especially given her mostly-male workplace, this seems not unrealistic in the 1990s? Some fanfic writers may even have been writing from experience. (At least, I think I'm right in saying that tendency was true. I'd be curious to know if other readers of old fanfic think Scully herself is characterized as an "ice queen" more often than I'm saying.)

I’m an Old Person. I’m ashamed to admit that in the same time period, I had a high school friend who always studied really hard in school and prioritized grades over social life, and sometimes we jokingly called her an “ice queen.” There was no male equivalent term. So unfortunately, I know this was most definitely a thing outside of Scully and the XF fandom. Fortunately, it does seem to be something we see less of in the 2020s. (At least I think?)  I just want to point it out because it’s one of those things you could think was just a little fanon quirk concerning this character or this show when really I do think it’s about gender perceptions overall. 

Very interested to know, though, if others think I'm wrong.

(actual Ice queen)

[amageish]

I was clearing out my phone photo album for the new year and realized I have way too many screenshots of queer Dani stuff, so let's talk about it.

Danielle Moonstar and Rahne Sinclair are a duo who stand out to me, even among all the many "this is clearly meant to be gay" characters and pairings that populate the X-Men, because of how explicit it is? They are not the only Claremont women to call each other their "soul mate" or "soul-mate," but they are the ones still doing it into the modern day.

They have a psychic rapport with each other which is constantly used to advance the plot. The fact they specifically can find each other is important to their stories... Here, you can even see Warlock pondering the nature of their relationship, though whether he is speculating on them being gay "I know what you are"-style or still learning about the concept of love in general is up to interpretation.

They smooch! They hug! They cuddle!

They go on date-like activities together! Dani won her a teddy bear!

I feel like you could have them be a queerplatonic thing and/or a romantic gay gay homosexual gay thing - either works - but it feels kind of silly to me that we've hit 2024 and these two are still not officially life partners in some form...

... though I do feel like there's a third person worth mentioning here too.

When Kate Pryde ran out on Xuân Cao Mạnh, doing her signature move of "abandoning a Sapphic relationship right when it gets serious," Danielle Moonstar was the one who showed up to replace her... Literally. Xuân Cao Mạnh was getting her college diploma and Dani literally showed up to take her seat at her graduation.

Dani brings Xuân back to Xaiver's Academy, with her becoming one of the main teachers at the academy for that era. Rahne, at this point, was busy going through a "What if this Good Christian Girl... went BAD?!?!?" phase and the less spoken about that the better, but Xuân and Dani got to be the main duo for a bit.

Xuân was already an out lesbian by now, so there's a weird subplot where Dani meets a lesbian barista and tries to set Xuân up with her in a "I know two lesbians, therefore they should kiss" way.

It's weird, but feels relatively realistic as something for a closeted queer girl to do to her openly-gay BFF in the early 2000s... also the fact that Dani claims to be straight to Prodigy, bisexual icon who knows everyone's sexuality because of his superpowers, is very funny to me.

Xuân and Rahne don't really have much going on between each other specifically, but you can take this panel from the first issue of New Mutants out-of-context and make it look like they do... Like, this is gay werewolf culture in a way, right?

It also probably merits mentioning that, in the modern era again now, the Infinity Comic Karma in Love had a fake-out where Xuân thought that Dani was hooking up with her girlfriend, Ellie Diwa AKA Galura...

And in the latest New Mutant series, Karma, Galura, Dani, and Rahne are the leaders and have big dad energy... all four of them are the dads. I stand by this characterization.

ANYWAY. Point being. Dani and Rahne should be able to kiss on-panel on the lips by now and maybe Xuân and Elle can join from time to time too... They're cute. They're fun. They were explicitly gay in the movie. This one feels really overdue.

[imthepunchlord]

Honestly? At this point Miraculous seems like a pick and choose kind of fandom??? Like when the storyline and author of something become too much of a mess for the fans to care much for canon anymore so they just choose what the want to write fanfics about. It happens in stuff like DC where they can't have all the different characterizations of the characters together without contradiction. Death of the author situation I think???

It was already happening with fan artists so very intrigued by the PV. And then as new characters and powers were introduced people started omitting some characters n episodes.

Now, with the absolute nothing having done for the character arcs for most of the characters (Adrian, Chole, even Alya) people are just tired.

Understandably so. We have almost a decade of bad writing, inconsistency on characters, clashing set up and characters, upsetting/huge choices that don't have any real consequences to them or not the right response, and honestly at the core, nothing changing all that much. S6 is going to have LB and Chat still not know each other's identities, and are still going to face a villainous Butterfly user.

Only difference is that there's now a total of 17 heroes in Paris, but given that LB and Chat are the center piece, I don't know how much we'll really see them. Oh, and Adrien and Marinette are dating, though I wouldn't be surprised if s6 just had them broken up or immediately broke them up. They did it before. And this pair is supposed to chase each other eternally... maybe they'll stay dating s6 and onwards but idk, it seems like no one likes writing couples together, which is a shame as that can be a whole other can of worms and not always happy, as you're taking that partnership further, you're going to learn more of who your SO is, and there's going to be fights, there's going to be learning communication, there's going to be learning compromise. There's a lot to explore with couples together that's not always sunshine and rainbows, and hardly any show wants to really explore it. Maybe they will s6 but I'm not really anticipating the possibility.

Either way, yeah, ML is that medium where, because of the inconsistency, you can pick and choose what you think fits the character. Given the lack of consistency, it can be up for debate of what's even in character for this character.

Like, I remember when Collector first came out, and Chloe is sobbing about Adrien being pulled from school and I was so surprised by the choice. The Chloe that was presented in s1 would not be sobbing. She was be mad. She would go demand and threaten Gabriel to give Adrien back. Probably one of the few people she genuinely cared for, and this is a girl who knows that she has a lot of political power and can get her way easily. She would not be crying over this, she'd be marching her way to the Agreste manor, ready to give Gabriel a bad day for the audacity of pulling her friend out of school when she waited so long for him to join her in school.

And that's just one of many moments where something can feel out of character, at least for me. Depending on how you view Chloe, that could very much be in character. And that's the nice and frustrating thing with Miraculous, no consistency, anything is up for your interpretation.

Even more so when you have characters that have a clear route of progress to follow.

Like, take Felix, who got cut because he didn't work with what Astruc wanted to do, which yeah, he doesn't. Which he wanted to do a status quo story, which means little to no progressing forward, no major changes to that initial set up. Felix though is a character that needs progress. He starts out selfish, not wanting to be a hero, and his set up arc is learning to care. Learning to truly become a hero, learning to make friends and working with others, coming to genuinely fall for his partner and being genuine with her.

Felix would've been fine with a story progressing forward.

He had a clear path to take.

Chloe, given all the build up to be Queen Bee, had two clear paths to take, be it redemption and rising to becoming a hero, or embracing a role of full villainy.

Alya had a clear path to take, with her eagerness to expose the heroes publicly, she needs to learn the value and security of secrecy, and the reality that her trying to expose them put them at risk; that she needs to reevaluate her priorities and how she should go about things.

There's also the issue of lore, which ML has really bad lore. Which can leave us to be more creative with it, make changes so it makes sense. And this can extend to powers too, as I don't think a majority genuinely like all powers presented, I don't know anyone who really likes time traveling Rabbit or really knows how Rooster works. So it is really nice that people are pretty open to seeing Miraculous power changed or expanded upon.

And of course, there's the lack of consistency in what they set up.

Ladybug and Cat are supposed to be THE most powerful, the big two! But they don't feel like. Butterfly feels like the most OP given it can give any power and can make superior versions of preexisting Miraculous. Peafowl can do the same, and make actual life apparently, that you can fully control and terminate whenever you want. Rabbit can freaking time travel. Rooster it seems can give you any power you want, I know they tried to explain that Rooster can't do what other Miraculous do, but that's a clashing statement as Ladybug and Goat both generate items, and the Paris Special reveals that a Ladybug CAN control what items they gets, and you got Butterfly and Peafowl able to function the same, and in the Paris Special, Butterfly can make a champion that can go to different realities, and Rooster can give the ability to go to different realities, so I guess we'll just go with Rooster can give you any power you want?

Yeah, Miraculous over all is a huge frustrating mess. Even more so that it's still going on despite how sloppy it is.

And for me at least, I create content for it as I can SEE the potential it has for the concept. It's such a brilliant idea for a superhero/magical girl show.

Doing animal themed heroes, with their powers working off the animal symbolism, themes, folklore, and mythology? Yeah, that is great. That can give you SO MUCH to work with and do. Even more so, most animals have the same themes across different cultures, like everyone agrees that foxes are tricky, horses are about heroism and traversal, bees are the peak example of community, ect..

And then there's these little beings that are based on those animals, that have lived through a long history alongside humanity? Easily could've been the most fascinating part of the show, especially if they work off animal archetypes. That gives you a preset personality to build upon, and can shape each kwami's view, moral, and guidance.

Like Pollen as a Bee should have values of having a role to play in the great hive of the world, you might need help finding your purpose, and to believe that humans should communicate, work with others, work hard, be kind but take no bull. Live a life of integrity and responsibility.

Trixx as a Fox though should be a trickster. One that's ultimately for the greater good, but she's going to be chaotic about it. Maybe a little selfish, maybe a little mischievous, and maybe a little risky. She's going to urge a value of cleverness and perception in her humans, but she's also going to let them act for themselves as she wants to see how things play out for curiosity and fun. And in the grand scheme of things, everything will work out as Trixx intends, with her having various predictions on how things will probably go, but my goodness, anyone caught up in her gambling game is going to be in for a wild ride.

And with these two very drastic animal archetypes, it sets up Pollen and Trixx to clash on how they handle things, expanding upon kwamis having unique dynamics, some as friendships while others are rivalries.

Then of course, there's the intrigue of what humans they could get paired with, especially if you go a route of foils that could open the way for growth.

Like Bee was set up as Chloe's ultimate foil, being the opposite of who she was: being mean and petty, lashing out, being lazy, egotistical, selfish, doesn't work with others unless she values them. All of that is the opposite of what bees represent. And all of that is what Chloe needed to grow and improve, but no, we can't make progress, she has to stay who she is, so the Bee is catered to her lashing out.

So yeah, it's a big shame as I freaking love this concept, especially as I like animals, I like reading up on their mythology and symbolism and such. But it's so horrendously done. And that's the biggest shame as I think it could've been one of the great cartoons to recommend. But not how it is now.

[fishedeyelenz]

ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE BLACK CHRISTMAS FANDOM

Hello everyone who's been following my writing and art and OC's!! Your support has warmed my heart, and got me through some thought times. Thank you very much for sticking by me, commenting, sending me kudos and asks regarding Dilf Billy and my oc-verse I made around him!

However... I have come to realize I have made Billy, at least the older 45-50 year old version of him my own. Very much my own. I think there's a discrepancy between my characterization of him, and how he is portrayed in the movie/novel/commentary. Another thing is that I love him too much. I want to make him my own, not an interpretation of a pre-existing character...

So that's exactly what I am going to do! I'm taking him and making him an OC. Currently I am in the process if changing up his backstory to make him distinct from Billy Lenz, though the Dilf version we see in Rats in the shadows and partially in So give me coffee and tv will stay similar.

My goal is to create a group of ocs consisting of the character formerly known as Billy, Camille, Bean and other side characters who will exist in a story about an ex serial killer father. I'm still early in the rework, but I feel like I don't have change too much.

What this means I will effectively be distancing myself at least partially from the Black Christmas fandom, at least in terms of my content creation though these past few months I have been in a rut given college preoccupying most of my time. I still love Black Christmas, it will remain one of my favorite movies forever. I cherish the friends I made and the experiences I had, but I want to move on to more original creations, uninhibited by primary existing source materials.

I will still interact with fan works in terms of reblogging art and writing , and I will most likely draw more of Billy Lenz and the other characters from the movie in the future. Anything regarding Camille, Bean, "dilf Billy" though, will be something divorced from Black Christmas, entirely its own thing, though obviously inspired by it.

Will I return to writing for Black Christmas? At this point I am uncertain. I have a WIP of a priest!au thing for Dilf Billy, which if I ever get around to finishing I would post under the pretense that it's a Black Christmas fanwork. However, I am not sure if I will finish it, given that I don't really have the time, and at the moment motivation to really work on it. Another story idea exists too, one which would better fit into the Black Christmas ethos with is very dark tone and heavy subject matter (while still remaining a smut work) which I would gladly have exist as a fanwork.... But once again I am lacking the time and want to do it. It would be a very big project, all things considered.

So what now? I will keep all my Billy Lenz/Dilf Billy content up on my blog, my AO3 will stay intact (though I will forward this announcement onto there), and I won't change my tags on Dilf Billy related posts. Moving forward, though, everything created for my oc inspired by Billy Lenz/Dilf Billy Lenz will be tagged as that. I need to come up with a new name for him first...

I will also make a post regarding how the plot of Rits/Sgmcatv would have went if I'd finished them, to give you guys some sort of conclusion. Though the new oc story with Bean, Camille and the new Billy oc in it will very closely follow Rits original storyline. Most of the events of Rits are canon still in regards to Camille's and Bean's backstory, with of course some caveats (no Brahms, Camille and "Billy" meet differently etc.). But the large majority of the plot points and story beats are the same.

I will be happy to answer any further questions, as my inbox is open. I'm sorry to disappoint anyone, but I've felt the need to move on, to elevate this story. I hope I can be forgiven. Now I bid farewell to this part of my life and creative era, and look forward to the new.

[cometomecosette]

"Les Misérables" musical character interpretations: Enjolras

Next on my list of characterization comparisons: our favorite revolutionary leader, Enjolras.

Once again, each of these three interpretations can work by themselves, or else they can be combined with each other. For example, I've found that some of the best Enjolras actors (e.g. Anthony Warlow, Ramin Karimloo, Kevin Earley) have combined "the Soldier" with "the Marble Lover of Liberty." And while Aaron Tveit's movie Enjolras is basically "the Marble Lover of Liberty," he's more subdued and boyish than most stage examples, with a possible undertone of "the Young Student."

While writing this, I also remembered the 2011 fan comic Enjolras and His Singing Brethren. Of course that comic isn't really a comparison of different characterizations, but mainly a way to praise David Thaxton's Enjolras and to make fun of Michael Maguire, Drew Sarich, and various bad actors in the role. But connections can still be drawn between my more earnest comparison and that silly one. A "G.I. Jolras" is "the Soldier," obviously; an "OMGjolras" is "the Young Student"; and a "Pwnjolras" is either "the Marble Lover of Liberty" or that type crossed with "the Soldier." A "Hunjolras" is just "the Soldier" overacted, while a "Hohumjolras" and an "Umm?jolras" are just weak actors with no stage presence.

The Soldier

            This robust, fiery Enjolras lacks the ethereal qualities of Hugo’s Enjolras, but he compensates with his unbreakable fighting spirit. While dignified, he’s also quite a rabble-rouser, who blazes with anger at injustice and charges into battle with the force of a cannon. His passion and vigor can be heard in his frequent emphatic shouts (“Where are the SWELLS who run this show?!” “…to call them TO ARMS!” “DAMN their lies!” etc.) and seen in his commanding presence on the barricade. Rather than Hugo’s “flower,” this Enjolras is a sturdy, towering tree. At times he might seem almost smug, and he might seem slightly overbearing and preachy toward Marius in “Red and Black.” Nonetheless, he earns our admiration with his staunch courage and our sympathy with his devotion to his friends. This Enjolras will be warm and demonstrative toward the other students, evoking the deep bonds of military comrades, and to Marius he’ll be like an older brother, sometimes impatient yet fiercely protective and caring. At first, he might have little patience for Grantaire, but will sincerely strive to convert him to idealism too, and will ultimately give him a heartfelt reconciliation, either in “Drink With Me” or in “The Final Battle.” His two truly vulnerable moments are after Gavroche’s death and, more briefly, Marius’s apparent death: while outwardly stoic, he’ll convey silent desolation at both. But then his grief will turn to fearsome rage, and he’ll charge onward to make the enemy bleed while he can. Although he dies, his strength and fire will never be forgotten.

The Young Student

            This Enjolras can best be compared to the student protestors of the 1960s, or possibly to John F. Kennedy. A passionate, charismatic idealist, whose vision for the future is grand and inspiring, but whose youth and inexperience make him unprepared for the battle, which he pays for in blood. His courage and zeal for the cause are just as fiery as the Soldier’s, but he lacks the Soldier’s sturdiness: instead, his fire is wildfire, blazing with boyish energy. The news of Lamarque’s death might make him nearly manic with excitement because the chance for revolution he’s been waiting for has come. Yet he can be kind and gentle too, and in his idealism, he relates to everyone – whether the poor in “Look Down,” or his beloved friends, or strangers – as an equal. When he lectures Marius or snaps at Grantaire, it never seems too harsh, because there’s no air of superiority in it. And as the barricade scenes unfold, though he stays strong on the surface, private expressions reveal his increasing distress, fear, and struggle to lead as the rebellion’s doom becomes clear. This might culminate in a total breakdown at Gavroche’s death, where he collapses in utter anguish and tears; or if not there, he might do it soon afterward over Marius’s “dead” body. (Or in a non-replica staging, over the body of Grantaire if he dies first.) But even if he doesn’t break down, we’ll feel his despair. Nonetheless, in his last moments, he picks himself up and faces his foes in a blaze of courage and defiance. Hugo’s “marble” Enjolras he isn’t, but as an all too young, very human martyr, he’s compelling in his own way.

The Marble Lover of Liberty

            This is Enjolras as Hugo wrote him, at least as much as the musical allows. He lacks either the Soldier’s machismo or the Young Student’s liveliness and vulnerability, but instead comes across as an almost angelic symbol of revolutionary idealism. His demeanor is stern, thoughtful, and defined by stately dignity and quiet strength. While his anger at injustice and his fervor for revolution are clear, and while there might be a subtle quality of wildness in his passion, he isn’t defined by fire. His anger is controlled and even-toned, not loud, and he’s able to command without aggression, but with a meaningful stare or simple gesture alone. When he sings of the future, gazing into the distance with a beatific expression, we see what defines this Enjolras: a shining vision of justice and freedom, which he worships with priestly devotion. He might come across as slightly cold and aloof, especially compared to his friends. But in his own quiet way, he’ll make his love for them clear. He likely won’t be overbearing toward Marius in “Red and Black,” but gently reason with him, outlining what he views as objective facts. He might treat Grantaire with cold disdain until the end, or he might show him a blend of frustration and caring from the start, but either way, their ultimate reconciliation will be meaningful and moving. As the barricade’s fall draws near, his sadness is quietly felt, but he never breaks. He dies with the same dignity, courage, and majestic idealism with which he lived. The sight of his body will inspire not just sadness, but reverence, and the resolve to keep his ideals alive.

More comparisons to come!