#these are all the comparisons i can think of for now........

[yeahwellyourface]

You know who I do feel bad for in all this?

The person who turned Luigi in. I don't agree with what they did, but I get it. If they are working for McDonald's, they are probably at minimum wage. Full time (which they probably weren't, cause fuck McDonalds probably doesnt want to have to give benefits)yearly pay for min wage is $15,000. The rewards together were $60,000.

Can you imagine how much that would change their life? FOUR TIMES their yearly wage. I am so incredibly privileged in comparison, but four times my yearly wage would change so many things for me.

You think about your family, and how much that could help. You think about your living situation. You think about rent and food prices and a vehicle. All of that would be so much easier, even for a little bit of time.

And then to find out that you probably won't get the money on technicalities. And if you do, you definitely won't get all of it. And even then, it will take at least a year.

Being told that you would get something that would change your life, the life of your children, and it's bullshit. Yet another reason you can't trust the cops.

And it also shows another way that authorities are so fucking stupid about this whole thing. Any trust people had in them is being blown out of the water. It is so incredibly clear the difference in ways people are treated. Children are being killed in school and nothing, but one CEO gets shot and it's considered terrorism. A CEO who profited off the deaths of thousands. But that person is more important than all us regular people. And now this reward BS. Do they actually think ANYONE is gonna help them again after seeing how they are screwing this person over

And eric fucking adams being in that fucking perp walk. That bastard has spent the past several months talking "innocent until proven guilty" and "due process"...but only when it comes to committing his own crimes. Not someone else's where he can pretend that he is some sort of hero.

It is amazing how people who are in power and people who think thay they can gain power by protecting the rich are so out of touch.

[crwbannwen]

I was writing this in the tags but I have too much to say.

So this absolutely. Don’t unwelsh my Mari Lwyd please and thank you

BUT I’d like to add some more:

As someone completely guilty of using the phrase ‘Welsh rap battle’ over pwnco. It’s because it’s one, a joke phrase I used to use even before it became more widely recognised, and two a more understandable concept I can explain to people without boring them with rhyme and meter.

I love my rhyme and meters, so trust me I knew how the pwnco worked when I use this phrase. I like saying ‘Welsh Rap Battle’ because I think it’s funny and emphasises how cool and charming I find my own cultural tradition to an English speaking person who wouldn’t know the tradition. It’s good to alter your language for people’s ease of understanding, it’s unfortunate that the joke caught on to people who don’t understand the pwnco. (And there is a limit to changing your language: it eventually does become altering something important too much for someone’s benefit).

I will also note here, while I use the phrase ‘Welsh rap battle’ to reinforce that I like the tradition, I also know people who were ashamed of the culture and tradition and used that phrase to make fun of the dead singing horse (same issue with Scots being called a dialect: cultural shame is a big issue in Wales even if we don’t think it is). Now the tradition is being reclaimed I doubt those people still see it as something to be ashamed of. But it’s something to keep in mind when using that phrase. Intentions do vary.

But my main point I wanted to adress:

Dysgais i Cymraeg fel iaith yn ail felly dw i ddim yn siarad cymraeg yn digon rhugl i fyrfyfyrio pwnco. Dw i’n gallu creu cerdd gydag amser ond beth am y bobl (cymreig) sydd ddim yn gallu siarad cymraeg o gwbl?

So while we don’t want to remove the Welsh from our tradition, we definitely don’t want to make the tradition inaccessible to our own people.

Learning a language is difficult. The education system sucks. Welsh second language a level is torture (I’d know, I did it. Average AS result in my class was a U, it was that awful). And not everyone has the means or the opportunity to learn Welsh so we should take care never to ostracise our own people. It’s more than unfortunate that we don’t all have a good grasp on the language. So having a set Cân-y-Fari that non-speakers or dysgwyr can learn and recite helps to both immerse them in Welsh and includes them in their own culture. Same with having art or an aesthetic. Maybe you can’t speak Welsh: but you can draw. That gives you a way to celebrate your culture still and I think that’s awesome. Even in English I couldn’t improvise a poem with a strict meter. The actual tradition of the Mari Lwyd is a seemingly unattainable level of fluency to most dysgwyr.

Obviously this still needs to coexist with the original Welsh tradition (not necessarily art though, if it’s a drawing of a Mari Lwyd then it’s a drawing of a Mari Lwyd. In my opinion art doesn’t need words unless the artist wants to add words). Traditions do change and that isn’t always a bad thing. In this case it’s not something we want to do, but it’s something we need to consider doing in order to help the non-Welsh speakers and dysgwyr be included in their culture.

There is an even larger issue here to be addressed with how we treat our own people as not ‘Welsh’ enough. Especially people who have mixed heritage. There’s a big racism issue that I could unpack here as well where non-white welsh students are made not to feel Welsh enough to deserve to be involved in welsh culture. Which should not happen. Similarly with half English Welshies. We need to stop treating ourselves like we aren’t Welsh enough; it only hurts us to be denied by our own people.

And as for Krampus comparisons, I bonded with a German friend over our different but similarly unique cultural Christmas traditions so I think that’s good too. I guess it’s the simplification of it that’s the problem

So I hate how the Mari Lwyd has been ‘de-welshed’. But personally, the ability for all of Welsh people to have access to it also needs to be considered in this discourse.

Still if the tradition completely shifted to English I would be so livid.

Edit: forgot to say, while I know the Mari Lwyd isn’t a cryptid, it is a cultural creature and I see no issue with people using that aspect of the tradition as a way to connect to it. The tradition isn’t only changing, it’s expanding. We just have to make sure it doesn’t drown out the original tradition

The thing with the Mari Lwyd, though, is that it's being... I don't know, 'appropriated' is the wrong word, but certainly turned into something it isn't.

Thing is, this is a folk tradition in the Welsh language, and that's the most important aspect of it. I feel partly responsible for this, because I accidentally became a bit of an expert on the topic of the Mari Lwyd in a post that escaped Tumblr containment, and I clearly didn't stress it strongly enough there (in my defence, I wrote that post for ten likes and some attention); but this is a Welsh language tradition, conducted in Welsh, using Welsh language poetic forms that are older than the entire English language, and also a very specific sung melody (with a very specific first verse; that's Cân y Fari). It is not actually a 'rap battle'. It's not a recited poem. It is not any old rhyme scheme however you want.

It is not in English.

Given the extensive and frankly ongoing attempts by England to wipe out Welsh, and its attendant cultural traditions, the Mari is being revived across Wales as an act of linguistic-cultural defiance. She's a symbol of Welsh language culture, specifically; an icon to remind that we are a distinct people, with our own culture and traditions, and in spite of everyone and everything, we're still here. Separating her from that by removing the Welsh is, to put it mildly, wildly disrespectful.

...but it IS what I'm increasingly seeing, both online and in real world Mari Lwyd festivals. She's gained enormous pop-culture popularity in recent years, which is fantastic; but she's also been reduced from the tradition to just an aesthetic now.

So many people are talking/drawing about her as though she's a cryptid or a mythological figure, rather than the folk practice of shoving a skull on a stick and pretending to be a naughty horse for cheese and drunken larks. And I get it! It's an intriguing visual! Some of the artwork is great! But this is not what she is. She's not a Krampus equivalent for your Dark Christmas aesthetic.

I see people writing their own version of the pwnco (though never called the pwnco; almost always called some variant on 'Mari Lwyd rap battle'), and as fun as these are, they are never even written in the meter and poetic rules of Cân y Fari, much less in Welsh, and they never conclude with the promise to behave before letting the Mari into the house. The pwnco is the central part to the tradition; this is the Welsh language part, the bit that's important and matters.

Mari Lwyd festivals are increasingly just English wassail festivals with a Mari or two present. The Swansea one last weekend didn't even include a Mari trying to break into a building (insert Shrek meme); there was no pwnco at all. Even in the Chepstow ones, they didn't do actual Cân y Fari; just a couple of recited verses. Instead, the Maris are just an aesthetic, a way to make it look a bit more Welsh, without having to commit to the unfashionable inconvenience of actually including Welsh.

And I don't really know what the answers are to these. I can tell you what I'd like - I'd like art to include the Welsh somewhere, maybe incorporating the first line of Cân y Fari like this one did, to keep it connected to the actual Welsh tradition (or other Welsh, if other phrases are preferred). I'd like people who want to write their version of the pwnco to respect the actual tradition of it by using Cân y Fari's meter and rhyme scheme, finishing with the promise to behave, and actually calling it the pwnco rather than a rap battle (and preferably in Welsh, though I do understand that's not always possible lol). I'd like to see the festivals actually observe the tradition, and include a link on the booking website to an audio clip of Cân y Fari and the words to the first verse, so attendees who want to can learn it ahead of time. I don't know how feasible any of that is, of course! But that's what I'd like to see.

I don't know. This is rambly. But it's something I've been thinking about - and increasingly nettled by - for a while. There's was something so affirming and wonderful at first about seeing the Mari's climb into international recognition, but it's very much turned to dismay by now, because she's important to my endangered culture and yet that's the part that everyone apparently wants to drop for being too awkward and ruining the aesthetic. It's very frustrating.

[bats-and-the-birds]

The Batkids on being mistaken as Bruce's biological children.

Look, the Batkids have all been forced into various social gatherings, and enough of them share vague features with Bruce that some of the older members among Gotham's old money, or the younger ones that are out of the loop, sometimes mix up the facts.

Dick gets it from the very beginning. Old women pinch his cheeks, still tan from a life outside of Gotham's gloom, and tell him, Such a sweet little boy, and just like your father at your age. His hair used to stick up just like yours. Dick didn't like it at all. He bit the first person that told him he had Bruce's eyes, and stomped on the foot of an old politician that told him, With your father's height, I thought you'd be taller by now.

He laughs it off as an adult, but sometimes, it still eats at him. People still tell him that they thought he'd eventually be as tall as Bruce, or that he should be thankful for his inherited jaw line. It's not the comparison to Bruce that bothers him anymore, or even being mistaken as his son, but rather, the fact that he sometimes struggles to remember exactly where his features actually came from; parental faces turning fuzzy in his distant memory.

Jason thinks it's funny, the first time it happens. Mostly because it's his nose of all things. Your nose is bent, grumbled the old man sitting across from him at the gala, Just like your father's. Tough luck on the genetics. The man didn't realize the bent noses were because they'd both been broken in the past. Jason spent days after studying Bruce's face, trying to figure out if their noses really bent in the same way, and eventually came to the conclusion that, yeah, they really did. From that point on, each time either of them broke their nose, Jason would distantly think, Ah, damn, there goes the family resemblance.

As an adult, Jason takes care to make sure people don't often seen his face. The hood does a pretty good job of that. Besides, he doesn't move in circles where the mistake could be made anymore. Still, sometimes he looks in the mirror at the bump in his nose and thinks, Family resemblance. Yeah, right.

It happens less with Tim. Anyone that made the mistake with Jason and Dick also remembered Jack and Janet Drake. It's not until he's almost an adult that a new hire at Wayne Industries, some kid from out of town, sees him and Bruce in the office together and remarks, Oh, you two furrow your eyebrows in the same way when you think. My mom says that my dad and I do that too. We inherited it from my grandpa. Tim feels unsettled all day and makes a conscious effort to not to furrow his eyebrows anymore.

There's no mistake to make with Damian. At least, not the same one that can be made with the others. He's the blood son, and he's a perfect mix between Bruce and Talia. Of course, there's the well-meaning, if confused, adults that assume he's adopted like the others. He corrects them, swiftly, and sometimes aggressively.

There is one incident. It happens while Bruce is gone, after he's been staying with Grayson for a few months. He knew, of course, that people thought that Grayson looked like Bruce. He could even see the similarities. Superficially, of course. However, he never considered that Grayson looking like his father also meant that Grayson looked like him. Not until an old woman leaned over to him at a gala and said, You look just like your father when Mister Wayne first brought him out to these things. The hair, that disgruntled little frown. He hated these parties too. Couldn't ever sit still. Gosh, I really can't believe it's been long enough that he has a child of his own. It took Damian a while to realize what happened, and even then, he couldn't bring himself to tell her that he wasn't actually Grayson's son, or that he and Grayson weren't actually that far apart in age. He felt strangely guilty the rest of the night, and he never dared to tell Grayson about it.

It happened to Steph exactly once. Really, she doesn't look like Bruce at all. It was a man with exceptionally thick glasses, who actually told her that she reminded him of Martha Wayne. She's pretty sure he was just trying to be nice. She tries to forget about it. She never tells Bruce.

You have his eyes, is what Duke gets. Which confuses him, because, uh, no, he doesn't. Not even close like Dick's. He says as much to the woman that said it to him, and she squints her eyes at him and responds, No, you definitely do. Not in the shape or the color, but you look at things the same way he does. Duke thinks about that sometimes, and he swings back and forth between being annoyed and weirdly proud that he apparently looked at the world like Batman did.

People tell Cass that she has his smile. She beams with pride at that. After all, she learned it from him. She studied, closely, the way his mouth ticked up at the corners, both while he stretched the dazzling, fake smile across his face for the public, and the genuine, gentle smiles that he gave her while he helped tie her hair back or slip on her mask, and now she could replicate them both perfectly. She didn't like the fake one, but she knew it was necessary.

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

So for new year cards...

Jack SSR is actually so cool; I like it. Malleus SSR is beautiful and all, but he really reminds me of a bride in forced marriage tropes. 😭

[Referencing the Twst JP Jan 2025 schedule!]

Finally, some good fucking food for Jack stans 😭 Port Fest feels like so long ago… fbjssbdjjs I feel like I can’t appreciate his design as much as others can. I’m not into the skintight undershirt on a character as buff as Jack is, and I'm confused as to why his gloves are... like that??? But!! I do like his fluffly little boa thing and how enthusiastic his pose is. You can tell he’s really putting his all into the New Year Sale~!

Malleus got another new hairstyle (any hairstyle that's different than his default one is a win in my book www)!! I think it's a well-liked look among his fans; I already saw so many people commenting that he looks like a love interest in a reborn as a villainess isekai or something to that effect.

I also saw some chatter around the thin fabric that Malleus seems to have over himself. A common joke is that it's a "wedding veil", but given the traditional Japanese clothes everyone is wearing for the new year, it's more likely also a Japanese article of clothing. A friend theorized that it's a 被衣 (kazuki/katsugi), a garment worn over the head that fully covers the body. These are mostly donned by noblewomen to cover their faces when they go out--and that sort of makes sense, given that Malleus himself is a noble. How demure and mindful... I thought the veil could also be a frost blanket (you know, to protect the budding flowers from the cold)?? But I'm not entirely sure right now; maybe the vignettes will give us more context!

A friend and I were speculating as to what flowers might be featured in the initial card art and the conclusion we came to was ume (plum) blossoms. The color and shape are similar, and they're a classic flower in winter anime. Something else I noticed was that the same flowers seem to appear in Sebek's New Year Attire from two years ago! If you compare Malleus and Sebek, you'll notice that the lighting is much warmer in Sebek's too. In fact, all previous SSR cards are pretty much like that, save for maybe Trey but at least Trey is shown to be in front of the shop. It really makes Malleus's card "stick out", since he's the only one that appears to be in a lonely and isolated location, just him and the plum blossoms.

On the subject of clothing worn by Japanese women! The same friend and I talked about Jamil's New Year Attire too. (Figured I'd throw this in here since I'm already talking about the other three 2025 New Year boys. Don't wanna leave him out, y'know??)

You can see that he has his hood up in the initial card artwork; my friend joked that Jamil's a newlywed. Why? Brides that choose to dress traditionally for their wedding days wear a wide white headdress/hood called a 角隠し (tsunokakushi), which covers an elaborate hairstyle like Jamils'/j. The "tsuno" (horns, as I'm sure you're all familiar with) in the name refers to the "horns of jealousy"; the tsunokakushi is meant to blanket the jealousy so she can enter her new married life at peace.

Of course, the shape, color, and context of the tsunokakushi is very different than what Jamil's got going on and the Twst team most likely did not intend for this comparison to be drawn, but I thought that this was interesting to share ^^ (*feeds Jamuil yumes this delulu cultural trivia*)

Aaaand let's close out with Floyd! The answer to his question is simple, actually. To put one's arm inside the kimono is just a very casual or relaxed way to pose. It suits Floyd and his attitude, doesn't it?

[thelocalconstellation]

Clownzy but its human Clownpierce and angel (Fallen angel) branzy. Something about in the funhouse era between the casino portion and after the betrayal of vitalasy Branzy who has been slowly sliding out of the gods domain finally crosses that unseen line and the feathers that were going from the grey they turned as soon as he joined lifesteal to a pure vantablack shade. Something in Branzy having that small measure of power left to him not knowing, never wanting to or caring to use it, being free enough from whatever expectations his god may have held still disregarding the gifts he was left with, but Clown, all the bloodlust and lingering threats and danger that he can be being so completely human. Something about the impressiveness of that skill especially in comparison to the inherent power that was deliberately never used in an act of spite.

Something in the opportunity for Ash to look Branzy in the eye, knowing that those horns weren't there three weeks ago, knowing that the last time Branzy molted, those feathers were a grey, now dark enough you can't make out the individual feathers anymore, the chance for Ash to know all that, look Branzy in the eye and ask if he's being held hostage. The question of "what did he do to corrupt whatever might have survived this server- what did he do to make you Fall?" When Branzy wasn't dragged down by Clown his morals were never changed by his sudden associate. Branzy was always like that. Clown just gave him the freedom- the protection enough from the rest of the server to actually show it.

Something about worship, I think.

[thatpieceoftrash]

I see my reflection in your eyes

Malleus x reader

WC: 833

In which you try to bring Malleus comfort in any way you can.

You’re not exactly sure how all of this started. Was it the way his voice turned more cheerful? Or maybe it was the longing look in his eyes when he spoke of it (one you were well too acquainted with).

In the end you supposed it wouldn't matter what the reason was, you had something to look forward to, and what you hoped would be a nice gift for a friend, who more than deserved it.

So, the next day after classes and dealing with whatever trouble Grim decided to cause that day, you found yourself in Sam’s shop looking for the (less than)perfect tools, given that you had to work with the small allowance Crowley gave you, In his “benevolence “, as he liked to call it.

“If it isn’t the prefect! What can I do for you? Although I already heard from my friends on the other side that you want to prepare something special for a certain someone.” Sam said with that knowing smile of his.

‘Of course he already knows, it’s like he has ghosts who work as spies for him. Actually maybe that wasn’t such a bad idea for your own ghosts…’

“It's not like you make it out to be, this is a gesture for friendship appreciation” you said, rolling your eyes, even though you knew deep down it was something more than that.

“Whatever you say, little imp” but you didn’t miss the teasing tone his words carried.

You were so excited for this project of yours, that upon returning from Sam’s you didn’t even bother changing out of your uniform, getting started with the task at hand.

Man, and what a task it was going to be. The ramshackle garden was last tended to probably when the wheel was invented . No matter, the state of the dorm never stopped you from achieving your goal, perhaps delayed it a tiny bit, nothing more.

Working with the mud in already freezing conditions was another hell itself, you were pretty sure you touched some weird magical worm, as if normal ones weren’t already bad enough. But imagining the smile on your friend’s face was enough to make you go back to work.

You don’t know how much time has passed since you started, although the little group of fireflies surrounding you was a telltale sign that your friend decided to pay you a visit , which only happened at night.

‘Just in time’ you thought to yourself as you turned around and faced the horned visitor.

“Tsunotaro! You’re here at the perfect time.” You chirped, walking up to him with a smile.

“Good evening, child of man”, he greeted, returning your smile, with his own, although his had a hint of mischief in it, “you seem rather excited, did something happen?”

“Something like that, I wanna show you something I think you’ll like.” And then you stepped out of the way to give him a full view of the little colourful corner that now took residence in your garden. You looked up at him to try and gouge his expression, his eyes widened a little, however his smile was completely gone.

‘Uh-oh, did he not like it?! Of course he wouldn't, you idiot!, he’s a prince and these dumb flowers were probably nothing in comparison to his royal garden’

“If you don’t like it, I completely understand, it’s nothing special and-“ but before you could finish your sentence, you heard a joyous laugh coming from Malleus, startled you looked up only to see him staring at the roses in front of him.

“Truly, you are a most interesting human, did you do all this for me?” And he finally turned to look at you.

“Well, every time you talked about your rose garden back at home, you got this faraway look in your eyes, like you’re longing for something”, you said lowering your head in embarrassment, “I know homesickness better than anyone, Tsunotaro. So I was hoping these flowers would make you feel a bit better. “

And then you felt cold fingers on your chin tilting your head upwards, all you could see was beautiful emerald green eyes, which held such a fond look and utter adoration in them, you could hardly believe the recipient was you.

“There is no need to be ashamed ", he said softly. “To think you would be so perceptive to feelings I wasn’t even aware of having, and what’s more, you were kind enough to offer me a piece of comfort in your own home. The roses are lovely, and so are you, my dear child of man. You have my gratitude for this gift” And if you didn’t melt at those words, you sure did at the chaste kiss he placed on your cheek.

“I’m happy you like it, come one, let me give you a closer look!” And with cheeks matching the colour of the red roses, you took his hand in yours and walked towards your own little garden of bliss.

[tori-artemis]

Oh this is a great question to think about! Tbh I had a lot of hopes back when the series was premiering (and before when it was just announced), so to go off of those... well first off, I really really wanted an exploration of Loki's trauma, his past and even his psyche. Like I know a psychological thriller/horror probably wouldn't have been in the cards for a Disney+ show, but tbf I feel like the creators of Wandavision touched on aspects found in those types of genres (if in a PG 13 kind of way) so I don't think I was too off base for hoping to see something like that for Loki. (Not to mention the ridiculous comparisons to films like Se7en and The Silence of the Lambs that Mike Waldron kept making... but I'm not gonna get into that rant again.)

I think I would've put a lot of focus on what the hell actually happened to Loki when he fell into the Void and disappeared for an entire year or so, and how he ended up encountering Thanos and the Black Order, how that all went down, etc. Either through flashbacks, or (possibly altered) memories, or Loki recounting those events interview/interrogation-style (and being an extremely unreliable narrator in doing so, like for instance saying something like "I made a deal with Thanos and worked with him willingly" and then at some point you see into his head through flashbacks/night terrors and realize that clearly wasn't the case, just stuff like that). The possibilities were endless tbh, like there's just so many creative opportunities to explore that one aspect of Loki's backstory. And since that's such a burning question to me (and many other fans tbh) still to this day, I feel like that'd be the first thing I'd want to tackle.

Another important thing I'd want to include would be Loki's gender fluidity and his bi identity. Like I don't think it necessarily has to go with Loki referring to himself as bi, like I don't think he has to say the actual word "bi" in order to give any meaningful kind of rep?? Especially now that Agatha All Along has come out, I feel like I'd want to approach Loki's identity in a similar type of way, just unapologetic, and as authentic as possible to his comic book counter part. Like hell, he can have hang ups with those parts of his identity (which would actually make sense, being from Asgard and since he already has a lot of self-loathing issues in general due to being Jotun).

I wouldn't mind that, especially if it was done in a non-typical way, like maybe it's not being sexually intimate with men/males that's looked down upon on Asgard, but - similar to the Norse apparently - it's on what role they play, or basically who's the "bottom" - that gets shamed, or maybe same sex relationships aren't looked down upon at all on Asgard, but giving birth/getting pregnant while being/presenting as male is, bc it's seen as unnatural, and then let Loki go through an experience where he develops deep rooted insecurities about those aspects of his identity due to Asgard's cultural prejudices. And like this doesn't even have to be explicit (tho after the birth scenes in both Wandavision and especially Agatha All Along I can't help but roll my eyes at ppl having a hang up with Loki going thru something like this, especially if they were totally okay with Wanda and Agatha having birthing scenes, but anyways). It can be something as simple and as subtle as Loki finding out he's pregnant (maybe he can magically feel the fetus growing inside him, or he can hear the heartbeat/etc, or maybe it's as simple as having morning sickness and/or a change of diet). And it just ends up with him drinking tea/potion (due to pressure from Odin/Frigga/society, or maybe he's not ready and seeks it out himself) which gets rid of the baby, but again it's done in a very non graphic way. Of course the whole mpreg thing is just an example, and doesn't have to be in a series about Loki (that's what fanfic is for!) but basically: let Loki be queer, he can have hang ups about being queer, and tbh I'd want the hang ups to be kind of different from the usual discussions/portrayals of queerness in media mainly bc Asgard's an alien/fantasy society so I'd want their cultural norms to be pretty different from ours (human society in general), but overall just let Loki be queer, goddamnit!

Furthermore, I'd want to explore Loki's self loathing in particular, and see his view of himself change as he develops and grows throughout the series. If he encounters other versions of himself then I'd want to see what that would look like... and preferably done differently from how the show approached it (regarding Sylvie). Like I don't want him to just, I don't know, praise his other self up the way he ends up doing in the series (I know he also fought with Sylvie at the beginning but tbh I couldn't really take their rivalry seriously, it felt very sibling-like - which I actually enjoyed at the time, mind you, but a reflection of one's internal self-hatred it certainly is NOT, and like overall the whole dynamic just didn't work for me bc I find those two characters so undeniably different from each other and therefore it doesn't really work as a metaphor for self hatred/self love, but that's neither here nor there).

Like - let it be messy! Let it actually be vitriolic and hateful if that's what the series is trying to convey. Let Loki be angry, let him rage, let him lash out - at versions of himself and at other characters, like c'mon! This is a character that has a lot of inner darkness and has suffered through a lot of trauma and has difficulty trusting others due to said trauma (especially if we're going with Avengers era Loki) so how about we Show That.

Tbh I wouldn't have minded for Loki's main villain (both in the series overall and wrt the lead character) to be a version of himself. (As long as it was portrayed in a thoughtful way, like don't just make him evil please, in fact he doesn't even have to be evil at all - he doesn't have to destroy or conquer other worlds, he could literally just be out there destroying all versions of Loki, which would force our protagonist to fight/confront this person hunting him down). Like I think there would be so many possibilities for all of the ways a protagonist could deal with a "villain" - or rather, an antagonist like that. Some far more darker than others, depending on how you want your story to go. Like it could end similarly to the Agent of Asgard comics (where I believe Loki ends up forgiving and embracing his "evil" self... tho I've not read the comics so please feel free to correct me if I've gotten something wrong). Or if I were writing this series, I would've just had Loki forced into a position where, after being worn down to reaching his emotional breaking point, and in a fit of sheer rage, he'd end up brutally murdering the antagonistic version of himself, in the ultimate form of self destruction, and then I'd have him reeling from the internal consequences of such an extreme form of violence done against himself - but that's just my ridiculously morbid psychological-horror-loving ass for you. I'd just want to completely unravel him ngl, before having him overcome the impossible by rebuilding himself once more (w/ a little help from his newfound friends)...

If the TVA had to be involved in some way, I'd want to approach them as an ominous totalitarian organization, and if Loki were to be tortured by said organization, it most certainly would NOT be portrayed as some throw-away-attempt-at-comedy-type-of-scene (AHEM). I'd go for a darker tone overall, and Loki's torture at the TVA would be portrayed with all of the horror demanded by those types of scenes dealing with that kind of subject matter.

Tbh I have so many ideas for a Loki-centric show, some that involve the TVA and some that don't, but there's just so many threads and I don't want to make this any more convoluted than it already is, so to put it simply: I'd want the focus to be on Loki first and foremost. If it's called Loki, then it should be about the main lead, similar to how Agatha All Along was about Agatha, and Wandavision was about Wanda. (Which means, if the TVA has to be involved, then they would be secondary to the series' main focus - which would be on Loki and his relationship with himself.) Secondly, I'd want to see his trauma not only brought up, but fully explored. Which includes his traumatic upbringing (Odin's A++ Parenting, Frigga's enabling, family dysfunction, Asgard's toxic social/cultural norms) as well as the horror he experienced in the Void and on Sanctuary, maybe even some events in the first Avengers film, but seen through Loki's eyes this time. And I'd just want Loki to be queer, so if he's bi then let him have previous (or current!) relationships (or flirtations) with men (or attraction towards men) as well as women, if he's gender fluid then Show. That. Whether he physically transforms into a woman at times, or through his inner monologue where he refers to himself with different pronouns even if his gender presentation hasn't changed, or even his ambivalence towards being trapped/labeled in a one-gender-ticked-box, but Show. It. That part of his identity deserves to be shown, especially in a series where Loki's the central character.

If you yourself could’ve directed/wrote the Loki series, what would you have done differently? What would you have wanted to see in a series about Loki? What would you have focused on? Would the series take place somewhere other than the TVA? Which characters would you include? What would be the end goal? What aspects of his character would be explored?

[gay-dorito-dust]

Oh, should i request it again then?

Damian pining after a male reader, its like his first big crush, its like their first patrol and damians all like "should i confess or nauh..."

Damian didn’t do feelings, or at least he liked to say he didn’t but in actuality he was raised by those who felt that emotions hindered his potential, his progress and thus installed the idea that the moment he started to feel something; he was bound to become a dead man.

So when he realised that he was developing a crush on you- a fellow vigilante- Damian knew he was a man doomed to fall upon his sword because he felt as though he needed to keep you safe, despite knowing well enough that you were capable of taking care of yourself if you managed to stay alive as long as you had.

However main couldn’t help but notice how vastly different you both were from one another. He had rough edges, a sandpaper like surface that felt like thousands of sharp teeth like fangs, he wasn’t exactly a welcoming presence to others; unlike you as you were the exact opposite of him. You were soft yet firm, strong enough to be able to give other kindness, and wielded a will power of pure iron and unyielding strength to push through any and all adversity.

A true reason for people to hope for a brighter future in comparison to him, but as Dick told him once, opposites attract and it was only natural for Damian to feel pulled towards you that he couldn’t explain. He still couldn’t explain it and it sent him mad at most times, but now that he was here with you on patrol, he couldn’t help but feel that things were becoming clear to him now as your presence tended to clear the fog within his head and help things seem clearer then before.

Now Damian faced a completely different challenge, should he confess to you of his innermost feelings, or remain true to what he was taught and keep the emotions within his chest until he -or they- died. This conflict raged even more within poor Damian as his shoulder brushes yours ever so slightly, causing his breath to hitch and his body to straighten upon instinct, all the while you only smiled at him and Damian damned his heart for speeding up at the sight of such a small thing.

‘You okay dami? You seem a little more brooding than usual.’ You said teasingly.

‘It’s nothing.’ He replied straightforward, his eyes firmly locked on the city you both swore to better, to protect and change.

You furrowed your brows, concerned. ‘Are you sure? If you don’t feel up to going on patrol with me I can always get dick to-‘

‘No.’ Damian almost shouted at the idea of having to deal with his brother talking his ear off about how he missed his opportunity to confess to you tonight, and how he’ll have to try and find another way to set you and him up on a mission. ‘I’ve just got a lot on my mind, I’m sorry if I come off as snippy or rude.’ You smiled and rested a hand on his shoulder, squeezing as all Damian could do was get lost within your gaze, words that he wanted to say died on his tongue as his mind blanked everything out but you.

‘Good, I wouldn’t want my Damian to get bored of me now.’ You joked as you patted his shoulder twice before letting your hand drop to your side again before choosing to overlook the city yourself. Unaware that Damian’s eyes had long shifted to you in the process. He hated how you made him feel but didn’t want to live in a life without it either, it was the most frustrating thing he’s ever felt but yet the most beautiful and he wanted to explore it deeper, it reminded him of how he often had issues with how his art came off a times to the point he had to redo the entire piece all over again.

‘Bored? You’re the only person I can wilfully tolerate on patrols.’ Damian found himself saying upon instinct but thankfully for him, you didn’t think more of it other than him being blunt.

‘I’m glad because I’m staring to like you Damian.’ You admitted.

Damian wondered whether you knew what you were saying and the way they made him feel half of the time, but at least you were more open with your emotions then him, so when Damian went back to the thought of confession to you he decided that tonight wouldn’t be the night; he still had time to do so and besides Damian didn’t fell it would be appropriate to confess on a patrol, perhaps an outing with his dogs would suffice instead?

[pots-culture-is]

Pots culture is being undiagnosed but having more than 70 % of the symptoms. Having a resting heart rate of around 60-70bpm and having your heart rate jump to 100-117bpm when you stand but feeling it's nothing compared to ppl who are actually diagnosed so you fear your doctors would not take you seriously 🥲🥲

Not to be that guy, but I don't think doctors take anyone seriously anymore, at least here in the UK, the NHS is very understaffed and wait times are Horrendous. (Although, CAMHS is worse, it was something like a two year wait and I still am waiting for medication. It's been four years total now, almost five. S'ppose it can always be worse, right?)

They were like "well.. we can only push others out of the way if it's seriously altering your quality of life" and I was like "I literally cannot get out of bed" and it was still two months wait time for a non-diagnosis (I'm not formally diagnosed with anything more than "PoTS-like symptoms, even though it's pretty apparent that I fit the criteria comfortably, they didn't want to give me a diagnosis because "what if it goes away?" All they're doing is making it harder to get support.)

Best advice I can honestly give is don't let the doctors throw you around, it took me a year for anything close to treatment, and we only got it because we sat in that office saying "we won't leave until you give us some sort of solution". It doesn't have to be as bad as others, if it's affecting you negatively, you are allowed help :). (Hey past me, this goes for you too. It took far too long to learn that. Comparison to others [in this way] only hurts yourself.)

[the-conversation-pod]

Pulpmania: We Are and Knock Knock, Boys!

AND WE'RE BACK!

Join us this week as we discuss the nature and definition of a BL pulp, their role in the industry, and a comparison between two recent projects. We're joined by long-time fandom watcher @twig-tea to discuss We Are and Knock Knock, Boys!

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Introduction 00:05:56 – We Are: The Branded Pairs 00:14:37 – We Are: A Rorschach Test of a Show 00:30:47 – We Are: Final Thoughts and Ratings 00:38:21 – Knock Knock, Boys! 00:48:39 – Knock Knock, Boys!: Sex Positivity 00:55:51 – Knock Knock, Boys!: Our Fab Four (and Jane) 01:09:58 – Knock Knock, Boys!: Final Thoughts and Ratings 01:14:54 – Importance of Pulps as Labs

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00 – Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re you’re drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

01:15 – Introduction

Ben 

And we're back. This week we have brought our good friend @twig-tea back with us. Say hello, Twig.

Twig 

Hi everyone!

Ben 

Twig, who has watched way too many shows—far more than me—is joining us to talk about two pulps this week. We're gonna be talking about We Are the series from GMMTV and Knock Knock, Boys! from WeTV.

Before we get into that, I think it'll be very beneficial for us to set a baseline on what a pulp is. Twig, you've watched over 600 BLs. How would you describe a pulp, considering most BL is basically indie cinema?

Twig 

One of the things that's characteristic of a pulp is normally low production values and formulaic plots; but formulaic plots, you could argue, is kind of one of the defining features of BL. So, when I think about what a pulp is in the BL space, I'm usually thinking about particularly inferior writing, sensationalist beyond the normal level of unrealistic storylines, racy, and anything that's, like, particularly cheap-looking or feeling.

Ben 

I feel like a lot of the times we're using pulp as a way to—maybe not intentionally—but it ends up being like a derisive way to refer to a project. And for me, if I'm describing something as a pulp, I'm talking about something that felt like it was very quickly produced to turn money—where it doesn't feel like there were a lot of people in the room who are overly concerned about individual choices that went down in the production and how they contributed to a whole. You can feel, sometimes, that different groups worked on different parts of a project, ‘cause some parts of it work really well, but maybe don't connect to others.

NiNi 

So, I have not watched 600 BLs. But my definition of a pulp, I'm thinking lower production values. But to me, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think that when you are looking at a piece of work that doesn't have a lot of budget, it can bring out some really interesting things in the production depending on how creative people can get. And I think that's a good way to look at it going into these two in particular, because on the one hand, you've got a pulp that probably did spend quite a little bit of money. And on the other hand, you have a pulp that clearly didn't have a lot of money to spend, but used its money well. So to me, the low budget aspect, or the minimal production aspect of things, doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

Twig 

Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think the characteristics of a pulp are about how it feels, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad. I feel like people use the word ‘pulp’ whenever they just mean that a show is bad, and that's not the same thing.

NiNi 

I don't watch nearly as much as you guys. What are some of your top pulps? What are some of the pulps that you'll always watch?

Ben 

Make It Right, every time.

Twig 

Yes! Cosigned.

NiNi 

That is a great one.

Ben 

Despite our impending conversation, I still feel very positively about Make It Right.

NiNi 

What about you, Twig?

Twig 

I wasn't ready for this question and I always take forever to answer a ‘favorites’ question. So, I will say my favorite one that I've seen recently, the one that I still think about every so often after watching it, was Lady Boyfriends. I talked about it in the last season’s Grab Bag episode. It was a remake from 2014, and it has a lot of problems, but it's still doing a lot of really interesting things.

NiNi 

My favorite pulp is always gonna be Love By Chance. Love by Chance is extremely problematic in a lot of ways, but it's got a lotta heart to it.

Ben 

So much New Siwaj references in a lot of this. I think my other one will probably be... probably Rainbow Prince.

Twig 

Ahh Rainbow Prince is so good! See, Ben's actually naming good shows, I'm just naming weird shows. [Ben laughs]

NiNi 

I always tread lightly when Rainbow Prince is brought up on the show, because I still have not finished watching it and Ben will not let me rest until I finish watching it. 

Ben 

That is much to your chagrin.

NiNi 

And he is correct. I just gotta find the time.

Ben

Mm mm.

All right, so let's stop dancing around this thing. Let's dive into it.

05:56 – We Are: The Branded Pairs

NiNi

We'll start by talking about We Are. Ben, break it down for us. What is We Are about?

Ben 

We Are the series is about how GMMTV can make so much money by just putting boys that people like in front of you in an almost plotless device for 16 weeks. 

We Are the series is about a group of college students who are in two different schools that are vaguely connected to each other by one person in common. Through a series of interactions two of them come into conflict-slash-flirtation immediately between an art student and an engineer. Other guys have crushes on each other. And much of the show is about the slow matriculation of these crushes through the BL TikTok filter.

NiNi 

What is the BL TikTok filter?

Ben 

It's the fact that all of the sequences are filmed with the boys as close to each other in the center frame so they fit on a vertical phone for the quick hits on TikTok.

NiNi 

[sing song voice] The more you know.

Ben 

Well, it's about virality. The head of GMMTV has said that they no longer care about ratings. What they care about is virality. They care about hitting those kilig moments to make sure that you get all the butterflies you wanna feel. And they're going to blast that moment into socials so that it goes viral—the same way the gifmakers on Tumblr are going to rush to gif the most BL moment of the episode so that they can be first to get the notes—it’s the same thing that GMMTV is doing. As soon as that episode ends, they're gonna be on YouTube with the highlights and they're gonna be on TikTok and Instagram with the short reel so that those can go viral and get pushed out and they can draw more viewers to their socials to gain more advertising dollars as a result. And to maximize that on the thin frame of the vertical screen, almost all of your big BL moments now are gonna be filmed like you're watching a TV show from the 1960s and we're still on 4 by 3 screens again because the frame is so narrow on a phone.

NiNi 

I am not of the social media generation, so it's always fascinating to hear how this stuff has moved on while I have ignored it. [laughs]

So, let's get into the show itself. So, as Ben intimated, this is a show with a lot of boys and... multiple friend groups coalescing together into a whole. And along the way there's a lot of little romances. There are four main couples in this thing. GMMTV, what they've done here is that they have utilized casting as a shortcut for certain things, which I actually thought was kind of a smart way to use casting. 

We talked before, maybe a couple of episodes ago about the art/commerce nexus, and I talked a little bit about why because of it, the branded pair system doesn't bother me as much as it bothers others. I thought this was actually a good use of branded pairs if you're trying to get people to watch something—putting a show together that relies on your affection for some of these people. It really helped pull you along through the show until it got to the point where the show itself started to pull you along. I thought that was really clever, actually.

Twig 

I guess, if you're accepting the premise that we're not gonna use writing to do that, [laughs] which is the part that I'm upset about, but maybe I'm jumping ahead.

Ben 

Before we get there—twig-tea, you're an archivist who's been watching the genre for like 20-plus years. How about you walk us through the four major pairs of boys that are in this and how their current pairing in this show reflects the way they've been branded previously?

Twig 

There are four central relationships in this show. Phum and Peem, played by Pond and Phuwin. PondPhuwin have been a branded pair for, I want to say three years.

NiNi 

Started in Fish Upon the Sky.

Twig 

Have been in Never Let Me Go, and then the Our Skyy episode for Never Let Me Go, as well. They also do a ton of branded pair things in between their shows and have played in heterosexual series in between their appearances in BL. Pond and Phuwin tend to play…how do I describe this dynamic? 

Ben 

They really like for Phuwin to be low-key pissy about something all the time and for Pond to smile back at him for it.

NiNi 

It's a grump and a simp.

Twig 

Yeah, Grump and Simp. Thank you. 

The next one is Q and Toey, played by Winny and Satang.

NiNi 

They first appeared in Fish Upon the Sky as well.

Ben 

They have a minor appearance together in Star in My Mind.

NiNi 

They were kind of pre-paired in Fish Upon the Sky. Like, there was like a thing, but it didn't actually turn into a thing.

Twig 

They first appeared as a firm couple with any real time on camera in My School President in 2022. That was a rivals-to-lovers storyline. In We Are, they've changed it up, which was actually quite refreshing, and the relationship between WinnySatang is a mentor-mentee relationship. It's Winny who's the grumpier character, and Satang plays a very actually happy-go-lucky outgoing character that is very different to their appearance in My School President, so it's interesting to see them do something different. 

Aou and Boom play Tan and Fang. They first appeared in…Enchanté? But I don't think they actually got together in Enchanté.

Ben 

I gotta be honest, I don't remember.

NiNi 

I do not remember anything about Enchanté.

[all laugh]

Twig 

I want to say it was mostly unrequited with a hint of them getting together at the end, but don't hold me to that. I really don't remember very well.

Ben 

I do know that we saw them properly together in Hidden Agenda.

Twig 

Before that they were very heavily shipped in Vice Versa. And I think they got, like, one, like, cheek kiss at the end of Vice Versa. And then Hidden Agenda, that was their first, the show where they were properly a couple. Now what do I remember about them in Hidden Agenda? [laughs] 

`Ben

Nothing!

Twig 

That show is so forgettable.

Ben 

They had an interesting thing in Hidden Agenda, because you had Aou playing a known closeted jock type character who really cared about his boyfriend but was incapable of coming out of the closet, and it caused real strain in their relationship.

Twig 

Yeah. So they had an extra lot of angst because they were an established couple but couldn't be seen together. Most of the time we saw them was about that, about the tension in their relationship.

NiNi 

The best thing that happened in Hidden Agenda, easily.

Twig 

Interestingly in We Are, they play a couple that, apparently in the book, was an established couple, but they rolled that back so we got to see them get together. The dynamic is a little flipped almost, where Aou plays the very heavy simping character, and Fang is just sort of bemused by his energy and into him, but not nearly as effusive.

NiNi 

It's a puppy-kitten dynamic.

Twig 

There you go, puppy-kitten. [laughs] 

And then the last couple, ChainPun, played by Mark and Poon. Poon had to come in very last minute to replace Mark's former branded pair partner, who he's been with since My Gear and Your Gown—which was 2020, so actually quite a long time. 

But I will say that Poon stepped in and did a great job blending with the whole group and I would say after watching the series I could not tell where they had to reshoot and fit stuff in. That was one thing that I think they handled really well.

14:37 – We Are: A Rorschach Test of a Show

Ben 

I'm just gonna transition us to the next part pretty awkwardly. I did not like this show, and I had to drop it after five weeks because it was pissing me off. Because the two of you finished this show���I want to hear about what was holding you into the show before I start picking at it. 

We'll start with you, NiNi, because you loved this show so much. This show...upheld your psyche for like four months. How? Why? Please!

NiNi 

[laughs] It did, it did. It's a combination of things. For me, it came at exactly the right time and hit exactly the right buttons in me, in terms of what I needed at the time. And even looking back on it now, even though I'm a little ways out of what I was going through at the time, I still find it quite comforting.

The two big parts of it that I really, really love. I love the way that the center of this show is about the friendship, it's about the multiple friend groups and how they become this one big friend group. This one group of silly boys who just enjoy each other's company so much and wanna spend all their time together. It's got this kind of a real time nostalgia element to it where I could see this show being somebody's reminiscence about a time in their life that they want to remember incredibly fondly. When they were young and they had this big group of friends and all they wanted to do is hang out with their friends and have a ton of fun. 

I described it when I was writing about the show while it was airing as giving me Hospital Playlist vibes. Hospital Playlist is a Korean drama about this group of friends who are all doctors working at the same hospital, and it's just about their lives, and them bringing people in, and them falling in love with people. I'm not saying that this is at the Hospital Playlist level, but it gave me the same energy, and Hospital Playlist is one of my favourite dramas of all time. So I enjoyed that aspect of it. 

The other aspect of it that I really enjoyed, this is part where I was talking about where they use the actors that you love to sort of pull you along until the story takes over from that. Tan and Fang, as Twig said, they get together during the show. And at first you don't understand why and how and what is even happening there. And then I think it's episode nine, so it’s just a little past the halfway mark of the show, that Tan tells his friends the story of him and Fang, how they met and how they got together. And it makes you understand everything that's gone before and everything that the show is trying to do in terms of how it's trying to organize itself. 

I had so many thoughts about it, like, is there another way that they could have done this to front load this? Like I said, it's more than halfway through the show and you have to get there. And if you don't, if the show is not pulling you along to that point, then you're not gonna get there. But, it changed everything. 

The show is fluffy, and it's sweet, and it's just very wholesome. And I really responded to it. Just talking about it now, I feel kind of a glow. I enjoyed it a whole lot. 

I'll save some of the other stuff for when we're actually talking about New Siwaj and how New Siwaj constructs shows and why this show worked for me in some ways that some other New Siwaj shows haven’t.

Ben 

I was gonna say, are we excusing a New Siwaj flashback to justify an Episode 5 reveal four episodes later all of a sudden? Please play the Double Savage recording, man in the booth.

NiNi 

No, no, no, no, no, that's entirely different. [Ben laughs]

And that's what I'm talking about when I say that how they actually used the actors, and the casting, and the branded pairs in this was actually a really smart use if that is how New wanted to do it. 

I appreciate New Siwaj as a creator. He pisses me off, but I appreciate him. One of the reasons that he pisses me off is that he has great narrative strengths in some ways. He also has a lot of respect for, like, the minutiae and the details of daily life and shenanigans between friends, which I appreciate, but I find interfere with his narratives when he's working on something that's narratively focused. 

To me, what happened here is that this was not at all narratively focused. What he did here is the same thing that he always does. It's a big group of friends just hangin’ out with each other, the minutiae of their daily life. But it's not interfering with a narrative that I wanna get back to. And so I can just sit in the vibe of it. To me, if New wants to write a narrative show, I want it to be narrative. And now I've realized that if New wants to sit in a vibe, he actually knows how to do it.

Ben 

Twig, you finished this show. Why?

Twig 

I finished it for two reasons. One, I'm a completionist. And so I finished it for the reason why I watch a lot of shows that I don't like. Spoiler: I didn't like this. [laughs] And that was so that I can understand what it did to the end and fit it into my internal understanding of what's happening with the genre at any given time.

I summed up both reasons in one thing. I spent a lot of the time watching the show trying to figure out what it was trying to do, why it wasn't working for me, and thinking about how it fits in in the wider context of what's happening in Thai BL. 

Ben 

We heard NiNi's reasons for why she loved it so much. Please detail for us why you had such a difficult time with it.

Twig 

NiNi alluded to it a little bit. This show is not narratively driven; there's no throughline, and that's the reason why I watch television, is for a story. The way that I watch shows is I'm paying attention to what characters are doing in the scene I'm watching, but I'm always thinking about how they connect to the scenes before, what that could mean for the future. And this show gave me nothing for my brain to grip onto. Scene to scene, things were happening that were fun to watch, but I couldn't enjoy them because I was thinking about how they didn't connect to the scenes before. And I was getting frustrated by that. And then I would get sort of bored because a scene in isolation isn't interesting to me. I ended up, like, spacing out a lot and then having to rewind, and then realizing after rewinding that nothing had actually happened, and I didn't have to rewind at all. [laughs] Didn't miss anything. 

So it was a really frustrating watch for me just because of the way my brain works and processes shows. The show takes place in—it's not just a BL bubble—I almost call it like a plot bubble. Almost nothing bad happens. And any conflict that does arise is resolved within an episode. I understand why that would be comforting and relaxing to some people, but for me, I found it very anxiety-inducing, because I was constantly thinking about,  why is nothing happening? What is going to come? And there was nothing to be worried about. I wouldn't say necessarily that my experience of the show is a reflection on the show, but it is about how and why I watch shows. This show was not for me. 

I do want to challenge NiNi's comparison to Hospital Playlist, because I also have seen and loved Hospital Playlist, and the reason why I loved that show and couldn't get into this show was because Hospital Playlist has a very clear throughline. And that was the main thing that was missing for me in this. The part where it took nine episodes to get to the backstory, I found frustrating. And the part that bothered me most about that was that the reveals weren't rewarding you for having paid attention to anything that happened before. It didn't feel like they connected to things we'd seen but didn't yet understand. It didn't feel like the show was grounded in a story that it was laying groundwork for. It was just leading to particular scenes. 

We were often told that this is why a character's reacting that way, but there was nothing previously that made me understand it or told me that it made sense. Like, we're told that Fang is a bad boyfriend because he isn't attentive or doesn't show affection for Tan, but I don't think we ever see that before they tell us that, other than in the episode where they tell us that that's a thing. We mostly see him just be really fond of Tan the whole time, so I was really confused by why suddenly he's apologizing for being a problem.

NiNi 

That's definitely, like, not where I went with that.

Twig 

And the Q and Toey conflict happens because Q is upset that Toey didn't tell him that he was his secret Post-It note buddy and his first love. We're told that Q was stressing over feeling conflicted about his feelings for the cafe Post-It Boy and Toey, and then it turns out they're the same person. But we didn't see any of that conflict in any of the episodes that came before. So his anger felt like it came out of nowhere. It was justified within the episode, but we hadn't laid any groundwork for it. 

That was sort of my experience the whole time. It felt like I was watching 16 specials of a show that I didn't see. So, I've always felt like I was missing context for whatever was happening, even though I'd watched the whole show. It was an uncomfortable watching experience.

NiNi 

Twig is actually correct about that thing. It's just, in terms of how we interpreted it, we interpreted it in two different directions. The show treats the audience like they're a member of the friend group and not an omniscient observer of any kind. As the characters learn things about each other and their backstories, that's the same time that the audience is learning it. So the show in that sense has, like, a little hint of immersion, doesn't give you hints before. If a character is gobsmacked, so are you. If a character is surprised by something happening, so are you. For me, that works, for Twig it doesn’t. And I completely understand.

The show is almost kind of like a Rorschach in that way. Like, it depends on what things about media you like, how you like to consume media, what are things that you enjoy that you don't enjoy in media. I like sitting in a vibe. The show is a vibe for me. Like I get to see people just kind of hang out and do their thing and be themselves.

I really responded to that. And so the lack of narrative drivers and groundwork laying and all those kinds of things that if it was a more narratively focused show that I would be looking for, once I started to feel the vibe that the show was going for, I was able to sit back and just soak in it and enjoy that part of it. 

Twig is quite correctly identifying what the show is doing. It's just that worked for me and it didn't work for her.

Twig 

Yeah, it just hit us both really differently. I think that's valid.

Ben 

The show did nothing! And for that, I despise it. [Twig laughs]

Here's the thing. There is so much BL to watch. The idea that I'm gonna spend nine weeks to figure out what the deal is with these boys is just not gonna happen for me. There's too much to fuckin’ watch. And there was no driving angst or drama to any of this. 

We mentioned Make It Right as the big pulp we love from New Siwaj. In that show, there is real drama with the boys’ relationships. Both of our major pairs of boys have very unfortunate first times that create a lot of confusion between them in their relationships that they have to work through while also dealing with the coming-of-age pains of being a teenage boy. 

And there was really just no drama for me to hang on to this. The only real thread that the show had early on was like...Pond’s character punking Phuwin’s character about demanding indentured servitude for inflicting medical expenses on him for kicking him in the nuts or some shit. I just found that to be deeply repellent because I don't find slavery narratives cute? Like, you must work for me or whatever shit. No, I do not find that as a fun way to turn stuff into romance. And I got deeply put off in episode five with Aou's character confessing to Boom's character, and Boom's character cutting off the confession. Because it felt like every time the show was coming close to an important core emotional reveal about a character, it intentionally interrupted the moment to avoid any sort of specificity—and winking at the audience to be like, you know what this is.

That may be fun for some people, but I found it boring, because it means that there's nothing specific about these characters to hang on to. That was the point where I just couldn't deal with this anymore. They took all the B- and C-list BL boys at GMMTV and dumped them in a 16-week, basically, hangout project of IG reels to fulfill a financial obligation to iQIYI. 

That's the thing I want to talk about here, too. This was not like a freemium product on YouTube. You had to pay money to watch this for like the first month and a half before they started rerunning it on YouTube. So people were paying premium dollars on iQIYI to watch, essentially, a show about just guys hanging out. I was bored by it because these guys weren't that interesting. The most interesting thing we had with any of the guys going on was Phuwin's character's angst about his art not measuring up to what he wanted it to be. That was about it. 

It was frustrating for me seeing so many people raving about this because there was really just so much of nothing here. It felt like the ideal kind of pocket gay. New usually has interesting things to say about the queer experience in one way, shape, or form. Even in the shows we've talked about on here that we didn't like, like A Boss and a Babe, had some interesting ideas about queer reality that I just did not feel from this show in the first five weeks. I put over five hours into a show that had nothing to say. That's more than enough. That's longer than a J-BL. 

It's fine as, like, background noise, I guess, but I need to care about something going on in the show if I'm gonna sit down and pay attention to it and invest my emotional energy into it. I can't marinate in a show like this. There's nothing to think about for me, and everything I did think about felt kind of insidious. Like, what's the point of these gays clumping in a world where there's no problems with being gay? The reason we clump is because we're ostracized, because we're the only people who will tolerate each other. Why does that occur in these situations where there is no reason for gay people to feel weird about being gay? That's one of the constant frustrations I've been having with these sort of bubble shows. I can't feel gay empathy and connection with these stories because some of the foundation is missing.

30:47 – We Are: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

I'm just very frustrated about this experience and what it means going forward, because this was probably super cheap to film and they probably turned a tidy profit on this. So that means there will be a lot more of this. And it's called Perfect Ten Liners, there will be 30 episodes of this. I'm looking forward to your report on that one, NiNi.

NiNi 

I think I'm only gonna watch one of those stories, actually. I see how there's a line from this to Perfect Ten Liners and it's also being done by New Siwaj. But for me, given GMMTV's now stated goal of, they're not tracking ratings, they're tracking socials, given what that means for how they're looking at some of their projects going forward, I don't think it's going to be everything that they do. But yes, they're gonna do more of these. And if they're gonna do more of these, I think as far as a template this is probably one of the better templates, ‘cause there are other ways that this could have gone. This one was balanced in a way that works. I don't think from what I've seen coming out of Perfect Ten Liners or so far it's going to be balanced in the same way. 

GMMTV is experimenting with the art commerce thing, sort of more leaning towards the commerce because that's what GMMTV is. I can't call them a CBS because they don't have that kind of thing, but they're like the CW, let's say, of Thai youth media. This is what you get from CW sometimes. If I didn't see other things coming both inside and outside of GMMTV, I would probably be more concerned, but for me there's so much out there right now. There's a ton of variety lately, I don't watch nearly as much as you two, and that's maybe part of the rest of it as well. For me, somebody who watches maybe 15 to 20 shows a year, it's just part of the constellation and it doesn't feel like a canary in the coal mine kind of thing, but that's just me.

Ben 

See, but the difficulty is we're seeing this in a lot of the shows, though. There's been this constant thing with not even just GMMTV, but they're sidestepping having to say things about gay shit in these shows. We talked about it in 23.5, we talked about it in Only Boo. The concern for me is, apparently, We Are the Series did really well. And GMMTV is brutal about what they're gonna fund. They're gonna fund the shit that's gonna make them money. If this sort of ungrounded fluff is what makes the money, that's what they're gonna make. 

The problem for me with fluff is I need to feel like the characters suffered to earn it. And there's not a sense that the fluff here is earned. There is a notion that is kind of romantic that, yeah, gay guys could just be just guys bein’ dudes. But mmph, did this feel weirdly alien while I was watching it. And I was really repulsed by it. That sucks because I like everybody involved. I just could not enjoy this at all and was deeply frustrated by it the entire time.

Twig 

To pick up something that you were saying, Ben, I think NiNi is right that the friendship as the core of the show is one of the better things about it, but one of the reasons why that wasn't enough for me is because I couldn't read this as found family because there was nothing for them to unite against? There was nothing for them to be there for each other about. There was no challenge to that friendship. They just ate a lot of barbecue and traveled a lot. I couldn't believe that they would last because they hadn't experienced anything to actually challenge that. You don't necessarily have to have it in the show. The show can be all fluffy, but if there's nothing even in the history to support that these guys have been through it together, then it's hard to know how they would respond to an actual problem.

NiNi 

So all that said, do we actually rate this because it's very clear that there's a dichotomy, not just within the group here talking about it now, but generally about the show. I'm not sure if a rating is useful. What do you guys think?

Ben 

In terms of where I always recommend from, I always rate on the, do I think people should watch this? Who do I think this show is for? I think I dropped this show at a 4 because I was really repulsed by it. I don't think that's fair reflective to the technical work that went into it, but for the type of reader that I think I'm trying to speak to, I can’t even  recommend this show at all. I found the whole experience rather empty. I don't go to TV to fill the show with my own, I'm smarter than the people who wrote this stuff or I will fill in the gap stuff. I don't like doing that in gay shows, so. I can't recommend this show. Not to the viewer I think I'm speaking to.

NiNi 

Twig, how about you?

Twig 

I don't always rate everything, so I really struggle to rate this. I'd probably put it at like a 6? I don't wanna take away from the fact that there are people who don't watch shows like I do who found this very comforting. Like you were saying, it's about what you're looking for in shows and how you watch them. 

But the part that's frustrating for me is that there was so much time we could have used to tell a story. [laughs] And so, I find it hard to forgive that. We don't actually get a lot of 16 episode hour-long shows, so it's hard for me to not begrudge the time.

NiNi

Obviously, I enjoyed this a lot more than you guys did, but I have two different ratings for it, actually. On terms of the enjoyability of it for me, it's hovering somewhere around like an 8.5, 9. But on the technical merits of the show, I would probably max it out at a 7.

Twig 

If I was going by my enjoyment, it would be a 4. [laughs] It was honestly painful for me to watch this.

NiNi 

That's valid, friend, that's valid. Two out of three means that it's not a recommend from The Conversation.

Ben 

I don't think we need to give it a harsh number rating, but legit, what's the angst of this show? What's the story? What are the drama here? I don't know, if you don't feel like swiping IG, put this on instead.

38:21 – Knock Knock, Boys!

NiNi 

Let's move on to the next pulp that we're going to discuss here. Knock Knock, Boys! by WeTV. 

Ben, what's Knock Knock, Boys! about?

Ben 

Knock Knock, Boys! is about four men who move into cheap housing because they're all running away from something in their lives. Together they form one of the more effective friend groups we've seen in a long time and pair off into two really satisfying relationships to follow for a solid eight episodes. 

We get in this show a really good presentation of age gap friendships amongst queer people. I really liked that we got to see developing relationships between young people alongside developing relationships between working people. We also got in this show a really great examination about how you love someone out of the closet. And for that, I will be forever grateful. 

I liked this show a lot, comparatively to the last one. This show also had a lot of our faves in it, and they showed up to work!

NiNi 

New faves and some classic ones, one of the classic faves being Seng Wichai who is well-loved on this podcast. Okay.

Twig 

Can we talk about Best? Because Best has been in the biz since 2017. He was in I Am Your King where he got to kiss Mark Siwat. I'm always so happy to see his face and I think this was by far his best role. It's really nice to see him in a role that can highlight his skills.

NiNi 

We talked a little bit about the overarching theme of it, but let's get into the details. The show has got, like we said, these four guys, they split off into two couples. Almond and Latte, who are in university, and Peak and Thanwa, who are just entering the working world. The way that these two pairs embody the angst of those two stages of life is really interesting.

Ben 

I think the difference between the last show and this show. During the last show we're mostly angsting about whether or not it's okay to like a show that's basically a glorified IG reel. This show has a plot and all of its characters have something going on with them. They have a clear want or desire. 

We've got Latte who is an amorous pansexual man who's having a great time in college. Too great of a time, in fact. One of his professors says if your ass is late anymore for my fuckin’ classes, you will not graduate. So he has to move closer to school because he's taking too long to get out of bed from one of his conquests to make it to class on time. Almond is finally out from under the maybe-too-sheltering thumb of his mother. And he is lying about his lodgings because he wants to live amongst the poors [laughs] instead of the security guard, ultra safe system that his mom wants him to live in. Thanwa is leaving a not great relationship with another man, and Peak appears to be running from compulsory heteronormativity. 

What's really interesting is when these guys are breaking the ice, they're telling each other truthful things, but they're also holding back in a way that felt really earnest. I find a lot of times in these shows, because they need to exposit things to the audience, these shows tend to have characters overshare with each other in a way that doesn't feel real. I thought this show did a great job of giving the audience the information we needed about why these guys were in the situation they were in, but giving the kind of polite answers that real people give each other about their situations. 

They needed a way to get these guys to start working together. So they create this conceit in which Almond really wants to hook up with this boy named Jumper, played by Pak Varayu. I totally understand why. He promises a year's worth of rent to whoever helps him score with Jumper. Hijinks ensue as the other three boys start trying to befriend Jumper and create scenarios for Almond to spend time with him so that they can get together. In the process of befriending Jumper, who we realize has a boyfriend already, Latte develops feelings for Almond and Thanwa and Peak end up growing closer together as well.

We follow Latte’s complex journey he has with people misunderstanding who he is as a pansexual person. Almond being an enthusiastic virgin who's very amped to explore his body and what he finds pleasurable. Thanwa is struggling with the thing we all struggle with in our 20s: Do we wanna do the job that's the thing we dream about doing or do we take the safe option, and what does that say about the other aspects of his life? And then Peak is deeply closeted because he doesn't want to let down his father. These are all really interesting threads to follow, and the show doesn't ever really forget where the characters are and what their experiences reflect in the way they respond to scenarios that arise. We get this great evolution of relationships over time.

One of the things that I thought the show did really well—I kind of want Twig to talk about this part a little bit more—is we get Almond's initial crush on Jumper, and then the show breaks that crush by systematically making Almond recognize that maybe Jumper is not who he wants to be with.

Twig 

I loved that sequence so much. Almond has a crush on Jumper and his new roommates are creating circumstances to bring them closer together in order to win rent for a year. That culminates in more and more situations where Almond and Jumper are in the room together and it's awkward. [laughs] Almond doesn't really know what to say, or Latte's with him and Latte and Jumper have more in common than Almond and Jumper do. It was very subtle moments, Almond's crush being whittled away at. 

And the party which they have at their house results in everybody getting really drunk, Jumper gets really drunk because the roommates are helping to make him drunk so that he'll be more receptive to Almond, and Almond is also being made drunk so that he'll be a little bit more relaxed. Jumper ends up getting so drunk that he gets really sick. We see this in so many shows where someone will get really drunk and then have a moment where they break and make out or have sex or confess or whatever, and what I love about the way they do that in Knock, Knock Boys! is that being really drunk is not sexy. It is not romantic. It is gross and it is unpleasant. And Almond dealing with disgruntled, loud, annoying, unwieldy Jumper and then a really gross Jumper when he vomits all over everywhere. And then he shits himself! Oh, it was so good. 

You could see the moment on Almond's face where the pedestal that Jumper had been on in his mind just collapsed and he realized, oh, this is a human being that I've been into and he's a gross human being, who vomits and shits and smells really bad right now and is actually [laughs] the opposite of attractive. So they help Jumper clean up and then Almond has to sit with his new realization and process his emotions.

Ben

NiNi, you're a big fan of Seng Wichai. I would like for you to unpack his character, Thanwa, and the work he did in this show.

NiNi 

Seng plays Thanwa and Thanwa is the mom friend. Thanwa is the one who takes care of everybody. He feeds the group, he guides them a little bit. And when he meets up with Peak, Peak basically is zoned out and also eats like an animal. Thanwa is a foodie, food lover, really into food and cooking and so he decides he's gonna teach Peak how to really enjoy and savour food. And that's how they bond. 

Thanwa himself is a complicated character. He's got this sadness to him, and Seng Wichai always plays these weird, cringey characters with an undercurrent of sadness to them very well. Thanwa is probably the least weird, cringey character he's ever played, but it's still got that undercurrent of sadness and melancholy. It makes you wonder, oh, what has this character been through? Why is this the way that he is? And over the course of the show, you get to see some of what he's running from, what is making him sad, and Seng plays every beat to me perfectly.

When things start to change with Peak, you see the sadness because Peak can't, in his mind, get all the way there in terms of how he feels about Thanwa. You can see that makes Thanwa really, really sad as much as he likes Peak and he enjoys his company and he is falling for Peak. It's a great little dynamic and Seng plays every nuance of this character so well. He understands Peak and what Peak can and can't give him. And when he decides that he's going to give Peak grace and support for whatever it is that he wants to do, because at this point it's not just about their relationship, it's about Peak's life, there's joy in there, but there's also sorrow. 

It's a great character for Seng and I am very glad to see him in this. Every character I've seen Seng play at this point has been great. The boy can pick ‘em. I will say that much.

Ben 

I think it's really notable that in the genre that's always using food as love, the not-so-subtle thing is Thanwa is literally teaching Peak how to experience pleasure, because it's clear that the boy does not when they first meet him.

48:39 – Knock Knock, Boys!: Sex Positivity

Ben

This was probably the most sex positive show we've watched this entire year. This show, through almost every single beat that it wanted to follow, had positive things to say about people's sexual relationships with each other, no matter how messy they got. 

Early on, we get this instance where Peak is fairly certain that he made out with one of the roommates the very first night he stumbled into the house. And at first he's not sure if it's Latte or Thanwa, because Latte's kind of a flirt. We get this eventual resolution where he realized it was Thanwa and apologizes for kissing Thanwa like that, and then asks if he can kiss him again properly. This is probably the point where I sat up and was like, hold on, this show might be actually serious about some of its ideas. Because that sequence when they were in the closet during the party was so pointed—particularly when Jane shows up the next morning and opens the door on them and they fall out. 

Twig

Yes!

Ben

Really excellent stuff.

There's another great bit that comes up. So, they have this friend, Lukpeach, who's a great character. I really love the new class of girl friend in BL who's doing supportive in a really fun way. It's the next evolution of the fag hag that we've gotten that I'm kind of into. I really like the way Lukpeach was constantly about supporting all of the gays around her so that she could write her stories about them. 

They have this sex ed club where they're talking about gender and sexual identity, safe sex practices, respecting people's privacy. So we get this whole bit where they're having a conversation about “don't record people without their consent, and especially don't create revenge porn about people by posting them without their consent.” And it feels like Almond's not really paying attention during that moment. And he has this moment where he realizes who Jumper actually wants to be with, that he's not actually available, and Almond's disappointed about this. This is right around the same time that someone records Jumper with Sean and then posts it. And there's this brief moment where the show leads the audience to suspect that Almond may have recorded Jumper and Sean in the shower and posted it online. They reflect this by having Latte turn on Almond and briefly think that Almond could have done that. 

This becomes a fault line between Almond and Latte, and then a huge line between Jumper and Almond, because this show plays the consequences of outing very seriously. Because of the video posted about Jumper, he is kicked off of the school's football team. He gets outed to his family and he was not trying to come out to them at all because he did not know how they were gonna react to that. Jumper confronts Almond about this, because he had ample reason to believe that Almond was there, and he's pissed at him. He's like, “I thought you were my friend. How could you do this to me?” 

It takes the Scooby Gang a really long time to suss out who was the actual culprit behind this. And there are social consequences for Almond for a while over this, where a significant portion of the student body is one, being super nasty to Jumper, but also simultaneously shaming Almond for doing that to his friend—or so they think. They end up revealing that it was Thanwa's ex who's been the one walking around recording people, and then they send his ass to jail. 

This was a really excellently handled plot. I like that the way the consequences played out across all of this happened in a believable way and was taken super seriously.

NiNi 

Because the plot line reverberates out, there are repercussions for Almond and Latte and there are repercussions for Peak and Thanwa. Almond at this point is kind of depressed, he's sad, so Latte tries to take him on a trip that leads to some new wrinkles and complications in their relationship. 

There was stuff going on with Peak and Thanwa, that when it became known to them that Thanwa's ex, who he had briefly moved back in with because of everything that was going on with Peak, that he had done it, something that happened in that moment of discovering that. This led to reverberations in Peak and his relationship. 

How the events reverberate and impact the group as a whole and then the individuals and the couples within it, I think it's actually constructed quite well for a show that clearly didn't have a lot of budget, didn't have a high production value or anything like that. They used their narrative time and they used their budget well, they built a story that worked for the time that they had, for the talent that they had, for the everything that they had.

Twig 

One of the things that I think might pass an international audience by, but really struck me as super important was the depiction of sex toys. Sex toys are illegal in Thailand, they're punishable by, I think it's, like, two years in prison if you're caught selling them, and owning them is also not legal. And so depicting sex toys on screen, it's actually quite a radical act for Thai television. To encourage the use of sex toys is also a pretty politically strong statement for Thai TV, so I just wanted to call that out as a really impactful thing that the show did, and I think did really well. It did a really great job of showing someone in Almond who had never seen a sex toy and was immediately fascinated and distracted. [laughs]

NiNi 

The way he stared at it. He could not believe this thing. He was just kind of mouth open looking at it like he couldn't even focus.

Twig 

Boy was thirsty.

Ben 

That boy skipped home. He's like, I got my first dildo and I can't wait to use it! [Ben and Twig laugh]

Twig 

And we got to see him experiment with his sexuality that way and to play with the sex toy a little bit and I thought that was an amazing thing to include in a show in any context, but particularly in a Thai television context.

One of the things that was a fun thing in any show but was a particularly political move in this show was Latte taking Lukpeach to the sex toy shop because they could have been arrested if they had been caught together going there. In context of where I am in Canada that wouldn't have really struck me as anything other than kind of a fun cute thing to do with a friend, and it speaks to a certain level of comfort and sex positivity but, it’s politically charged in a way in Thailand that you might not necessarily be aware of.

Ben 

I think it's important to point that out, because this show had an 18-plus rating and it's because they talked about sex the way they did. They actually didn't depict that much sexual content on screen.

55:51 – Knock Knock, Boys!: Our Fab Four (and Jane)

Ben

Speaking of, like, depicting the complex situations around sex, you mentioned the beach trip they go on. One of the better beach episodes we've had from the genre in a long time, because there's a lot of needing to unpack from some difficult things and big reveals about the characters that come out of that one. That's the first real moment where Latte and Almond physically acknowledge the attraction that's been building between them for multiple episodes at that point. 

They end up in a complex makeout that could have turned into sex, that then stops, that I think really sets the stage for the rest of what develops and makes Latte one of my favorite characters we've gotten this year. He was so patient with Almond and was always capable of meeting Almond emotionally where he was. Almond took a while to get comfortable with actually doing sexual stuff. And even though Latte made it clear he was ready and down and wanting, he was able to communicate that in a way that didn't feel like he was pushing Almond beyond his comfort zone. Which lets us later get these great I wanna have my first time conversations with both Peak and Thanwa where we get to let them give him useful advice. 

I really love the way these boys consistently rallied for each other when some shit was goin’ down. When one of them was having problems, they were really concerned about them and wanted to find a way to help them out. That was just really lovely. We know these boys have each other's backs, ‘cause they went through some real shit together.

Twig 

Latte was on it, being able lie to Almond's mother immediately.

NiNi 

It wasn't even a question. He's like, “Okay, we lyin’ to mom? I'll help.” Right up until they got caught. And then he was just like, well, you're gonna have to tell her what's going on. 

I wanna talk about the Peak arc coming towards the end and Peak and Jane and how all of that played out.

Ben 

Jane was a great character. We learned that the reason why Peak is so stressed all the time is his mom died and this sort of brings an end to this really loving, idyllic family that he had. His dad becomes cold in his grief and is constantly kind of hovering. Peak is struggling himself, he can't perform the way he used to about school and work and all of these things. He basically sort of closes himself off trying to be this ideal son for his dad. And so when his dad eventually tries to arrange a marriage for him with a family friend that's maybe financially beholden to them, he doesn't really say no to this because he doesn't wanna let his dad down. But he also can't hide from who he is, and so he just runs. 

Jane eventually finds him, and she tries to be patient with him. Like, she clearly knows his deal, tries to help him with Thanwa, but she won't say for him what he needs to say for himself, which I thought was really fascinating. Once he gets caught by his dad, he goes back with his dad and finally, after so many times that he should have said the damn thing, finally says to his dad what he needs to say about who he is. And we get this really great apology from his dad. 

What's so fascinating about Best’s performance in this is I think a lot of people conflated Best playing Peak as kind of spacey with his Love By Chance guest role. And I think that was maybe a little unfair because he was just doing a bit for that character as a very, very, very tiny role. But here, Peak spacing out is basically pain management. He can't stay present in the moment because he's suffering so much, which is, I think, one of the parts of the show that is understated, but in a way that I think is really good.

When I talk about being able to connect to the queer angst of a character, I can see how much Peak is suffering the whole time. That is most evidenced by the way he transforms as soon as everything is out in the open. The last episode and a half of Peak is like watching a completely different character because he's not burdened by the expectation anymore. You can see how quickly he becomes the boyfriend he's been wanting to be this whole time. 

And truly, Thanwa won because man, he put in real patience and effort with that man and he got what he wanted. Good for him!

Twig 

That whole arc is one of my favorite things in this show and I think the thing that is gonna linger with me most. One of the things that I really love about it is how carefully written it is. When Peak is earlier in the show being so frustrating—I mean the audience is frustrated, his housemates are frustrated, Thanwa is frustrated, Jane is so frustrated. The way that people relate to or respond to him differs depending on whether or not they know what's going on. And as soon as what's going on with him is revealed, that frustration shifts. Thanwa is still frustrated but so much more willing to give him space and time to figure himself out once he knows what he's figuring out, that it's not just about Peak holding back, it’s about his relationship with his father, he was so much more willing and able to wait. 

Almond and Latte similarly feel like they're sidestepping around Peak when they don't really understand what's going on with him, and then as soon as they do, they're ready to show up for him. They arrange to drive Thanwa to Peak at his dad's house so that they can be there to support him when he's ready to come out just to be there in case he needs them. I thought that was so beautiful. And then when Peak again does come out and shifts, the way that all of the characters respond to his changes. It’s also very organic and fluid and feels very natural. It was just so well done and felt really well thought out.

Ben

When we say the show is really sex positive, part of sex positivity is understanding that boundaries aren't bad. They're about establishing communication and understanding how your behaviors impact each other. 

Almond is running away from his mom kind of sheltering him too much. And when he finally expresses this to her clearly, she takes that in and apologizes for overstepping and maybe smothering him too much. So when they're like, “All right, now that we've gotten that resolved, we need to go save Peak.” And mom's like, “Can I come?” “No, mom, you can't come.” She goes, “Oh, okay.” And she doesn't push back. She's like, “Okay, well, I understand. I'll pay for your lodgings and your transportation." They play this for mild comedy, but this is actually really good. Mom does have a tendency to get over-involved, and they don't want her jumping into their guy problems here, but they don't want her to not be involved per se. They give her a way to feel like she's helping because she's got all this money. 

It's the same thing with Peak when he finally comes out properly to his father. His father apologizes for the conditions he created for Peak and tries to take steps to rectify that. That's actually a really special thing. Everyone loved Peak enough to wait for him to make the choice himself. We have so many stories about gay people being outed against their will and having to suffer the consequences of that. That happens in this show, too! I really love this show giving us the other end of that, where nobody outed Peak, even though we were all running to shake that man, they let him do it on his terms. And he had a good experience with it when he finally did it. And he says it's the fact that everybody loved him so much that he felt like it was wrong to keep running at that point. That's finally what made him come out on his own terms. That's the big point. You have to come out for yourself, for it to be meaningful and for you to have the courage and fortitude to be out and live out. 

This show was excellent and I loved all of these boys and their friends and especially Jane. My God, I love Jane. And she was gay! Good for us.

NiNi 

That actually annoyed me a little as why the show didn't get a 10 for me, because I thought they were entirely too cute about withholding the lavender part of that lavender marriage. 

Ben 

Oh, I sensed it the whole time. I was just waiting for them to confirm it.

NiNi 

It would be the one thing if they withheld it but they misdirected on it, and this was in the translations and the subtitles which is why it annoyed me. I know that the word that they're using in Thai is a gender neutral word but in terms of the subtitles, they are not using a gender neutral word. It felt like an unnecessary misdirect for me. That's probably, like, my only little quibble about it. And it's really a translation thing and not anything to do with the show as presented. So, eh, I'm fine. I just had to get it out.

We talked about Seng and Best and I want to give some love to Nokia and Jaonine because I don't think anybody could have done Almond and Latte as good as Nokia and Jaonine. I have some real appreciation for these two boys' talents.

Ben 

I wanna go to Twig because this is not our first time with Nokia. I did not watch all of Thank God It's Friday. Was Nokia this good at physical comedy in 2017 or ‘19?

Twig 

The short answer is no, he was not. I remember him in that show as standing out as one of the ones who can act. Thank God it's Friday, for context, was a show full of a lot of boys who had never acted in anything before and they weren't given a lot to do and it was a little bit rough to watch. [laughs] I remember him being one of the few who looked like he might have somewhere to go from there. So I was really glad to see him again, but he's definitely improved.

Ben 

I thought Nokia was so good at the physical comedy of playing Almond. Like, I really just loved watching that boy move around and react to literally everything that was happening. He felt so present in every scene he was in. Best and Seng are really good at that too. And it was nice to see a newer performer, for us at least, be able to match that energy. 

Jaonine was really charming as Latte. It was really fun to watch an actor play a guy who looked so comfortable in his own skin. All these guys are super tense about something going on. Peak’s fighting the closet he's in. Thanwa is struggling against normie expectations the whole time, and Almond just wants to get fucked so bad. It was so refreshing to see a character in Latte played by Jaonine that was very much not as stressed out as the rest of them.

Twig 

And he owned his sexuality in a way that was really refreshing, too. I love his refrain of, “I'm bisexual, but I'm still choosy. I don't do sleep with anyone, excuse you.” [laughs] And I think this is something that you actually have mentioned, Ben, in your thoughts on the show. I just love how he leaves all of his past relationships or interactions positively it seems like. So he keeps running into people who he's had sex with in the past and everyone's just happy to see him.[laughs] It was really refreshing to see people who have a very active sex life and have that be a positive thing in their life rather than a negative thing.

NiNi 

I just wanted to pick up on something that you said earlier about the fact that Latte is probably the only character who's not stressed and you enjoy watching that relaxation that Jaonine plays through the character. But when Latte does get stressed, I think Jaonine is also very good at making that feel uncomfortable. Like, Latte is not comfortable with the idea of being stressed out by things, that's not the life that he wants to live. And you can see the tension in his body and how it feels unnatural. I thought he was actually really really good at that aspect of this character.

Ben 

We got so lucky that we got such a talented cast here. Even in, like, the first episode or so, there was this weird flirty energy between Thanwa and Latte, and Twig and I were like, [laughs] are they gonna do it? Please let them fuck, we need to let this happen. 

Twig 

I'm still a little sad they didn't.

Ben 

Sincerely, the point at which I realized this show was gonna be something else was, Latte was living in the house alone first, and was throwing parties and shit and leaving a mess. He's not thinking about the fact that he has a new roommate that moved in and they left a fucking mess. And he felt bad about that, helped clean up a little bit and assured Thanwa that that would not happen anymore. And it doesn't! In so many other stories, his inability to stop partying would be a big part of his character. And it just isn't here. He is constantly capable of respecting other people's space and boundaries. He recognized that he had maybe overstepped with Thanwa, rectified that, and then corrected the behavior. It's a small thing really early in the show. But that was when I was like, this show might actually be on to something. There's a lot of people I like here and they seem to know what they're saying.

01:09:58 – Knock Knock, Boys!: Final Thoughts and Ratings

Ben

I was really relieved to genuinely enjoy the whole ride of this show. It was so refreshing to have a show that was solid, for the most part, the whole way through where we could follow where the show wanted us to go. There were some missteps where I think some batons didn't pass as smoothly as they needed to, but I had such a great time following this. This was a really robust experience with really memorable characters and performances.

Twig 

At a time when shows so often write boundary violations as romantic, it's just so refreshing to have a show depict boundaries as healthy and respected and positive things.

Ben 

Before we go, we have to talk about Almond and Latte having the perfect first time.

Twig 

Yes!

NiNi

It was so good. [all laugh]

Twig 

Best sex scene of the year.

Ben 

I have spoken at least once or twice on this show about a Mexican film called Quatro Lunas—you've probably seen it, Twig—that has a first time sex scene between two teenagers that is just as awkward as this one. [Twig laughs] And this sits up there.

I really liked how real that felt. It's Almond's first time. The boy’s clearly thought way too much about sex. He cannot relax. They can't really get into anything. It doesn't matter how experienced or good at sex Latte might be, until Almond relaxes they're not gonna be able to do anything. And I like that it's after they give up on trying to make it happen that that's when things click. Whatever happens after we fade away from them, Latte clearly had a good enough time that he was like, “Let's try that again” the next day, which is also capped off by Thanwa and Peak clearly post-coitus coming down to check on them and asking plainly, “Did you have a good time? Give us the review of Captain Dick here.” [laughs] And he says, “We had a really good time.” 

I really liked that even as part of the expansion of healthy sexual boundaries, they're still giving Almond the space to talk about these sort of things in a way that's comfortable for him. Like, you can tell your friends that you had a really positive intimate experience with someone really important to you. And it gives you the space to be able to tell them maybe if you didn't. I feel so secure about how those boys are gonna be because they're not gonna be isolated and alone whenever they run into any sort of difficulties. They have people who they can talk to about real shit.

I love this show so much. Oh my God.

NiNi 

Well, that said, let's rate it. Twig, what’s your rating for Knock, Knock Boys?

Twig 

I gave it a solid 9. I think it had something very clear to say and it said it really, really well. It wasn't a perfect execution, but it was really fun and it overall was a solid effort and I'm definitely gonna return to it. I loved it.

NiNi 

Ben, how about you?

Ben

It's also a 9. There are a couple of emotional beats that I don't think land correctly or at the very least did not translate well for me. And I think certain plot lines got closed off in a way that was a little too pat. But I respect what the show is going for with those moments. This show is really excellent and you really should watch it, but it is not, like, a greatest of all time show.

NiNi 

I also give this show a 9. I enjoyed a lot about it and my quibbles are minor. And I really loved all the performances. Great job, team!

Ben 

This is like a 9+ from The Conversation. Sincerely, do yourself a favor and watch this one. We've complained a lot about Thai BL just really not putting together a complete show. We've got one here and you deserve to watch this. 

In fact, I think one of the big things about the show is that in the first episode we commented this felt more like a romcom and not a BL. And the show said that in the mouth of one of the characters writing about the world, that they wanted it to be more rom-com than the baseline expectations of BL. I really hope this is a sign for the future of what we are capable of making out of this genre, because this was so enjoyable. I was about to give up on watching Thai shows before I started watching this one. I've been strugglin’ out here. It's been hard in these streets.

01:14:54 – Importance of Pulps as Labs

NiNi 

Okay, so all that said, what do we think that these two shows leave us thinking about pulps and the role of pulps in sort of the BL ecosystem?

Ben 

Man, it's just so much easier to talk about a pulp when it has something to say that's interesting. And you can talk about how what the characters do and say reflects the themes that the show cares about. Like, we're talking about whether or not empty fluff is fine in We Are, but we're talking about the actual themes and characters and choices that were made in Knock, Knock Boys! That's such a huge difference, and this is what we mean when we say like there's this huge range in pulps. You don't have to only like the show one way for you to get a lot from it. 

And that's what I like to see out of these sort of scrappier productions. You really wanna see people with a good story to tell that has a strong thematic core and is able to express that through all of the viewpoints that it has in its story. Like the villain of Knock, Knock Boys! is well calibrated for the themes of Knock, Knock Boys! That's actually really good writing.

NiNi 

Twig, what about you, any thoughts?

Twig 

I think at the end of the day, whether something is a pulp or not is not a good indication of whether it has something interesting to say, whether it's a fun watch, whether it holds together, whether there's a good story. So take the word pulp for what it means and not for what it doesn't. It doesn't actually tell you anything about whether or not you like the show, I think, unless you have very specific taste. [laughs]

NiNi 

I don't watch a lot of the pulps, like a lot of the classic Thai BL pulps are shows that I've never seen. One of the things that I enjoy about these two shows is that they give me some experimentation in two different directions. They are the producers trying something out, pulps are like a lab in that way. The pulp format allows creators to experiment with ideas. Some work, some don't. It allows them to experiment with actors in some cases, and that can be good and that can be not so good, it allows them to just sort of see what's going to work without spending a ton of money. And for that, I can't ever truly knock them. There are not a lot of them that I enjoy personally, but I think that they have an important role to play in the ecosystem of the genre.

Twig 

That's one of the reasons why I always try and watch them all, or at least as many of them as I can. I am always really interested in what people can only say in a pulp that they couldn't say in a show that's made by a major production company. 

I've had some good conversations lately with Shan about City of Stars, a pulp that had some really interesting things to say about being famous and being gay and being in a ship and how those things can and can't exist at the same time in Thai popular culture. Just comparing that to how the same themes are handled in shows by major production companies, you guys talked about it in the Only Boo episode, about how there's only so much that a company that makes money off of selling ships can say about ship culture, whereas a smaller production company is more free to criticize fans. That's the kind of thing that I'm listening for when I watch pulps, is like, what are the things that they could say and do that they can only do because they're under less of a microscope?

NiNi 

The scrappy upstarts that could. So, that is going to wrap us up on “Guys Being Dudes,” which is what I'm gonna call this episode.

Ben 

Absolutely the fuck not! [Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi

It's gonna be called Pulpmania. So that's gonna wrap us up on our Pulpmania episode and with that, we out. 

Say bye to the people, Twig.

Twig 

Bye! Thanks for having me again.

NiNi 

Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben 

Peace!

[muninnhuginn]

Some disparate thoughts after yingdu ep 1 (not rewatched or read anyone else's thoughts yet but had seen the pre-release pvs etc)

some time travel mechanics questions answered and some more raised. It's now confirmed what happens if you stay beyond the 12 hours (you're stuck forever). This had been speculated before but this is definitely the first confirmation. Now, in terms of questions? Was lu guang just using his powers normally during the scene at the con and didn't want the others to see? If so, is what we saw as the audience what *he* sees? That would imply he gets rather more context than we'd previously thought. Could just be letting the audience know the backstory though and has no impact on how his powers work. Net zero info ig.

speaking of that backstory, you can tell this arc has brought in more fans behind the scenes. The animator backstory was pretty on the nose and some of the early aspects were very... well, a specific flavour of fanservice, shall we say

also, wow, everyone was thinking lg's fashion sense was awful when we got the first previews but it was cxs to blame all along

so, romance scammer parallels, huh? Taking this on two levels. one) the shiguang level of "don't dig yourself deeper" when lg is... busy digging himself deeper (plus the whole thing about "if you'd just been honest from the start") two) the aspects of "taking advantage of someone when they're at rock bottom" mean I'm now lowkey expecting a similar dynamic to appear once we reach yingdu (perhaps xia fei in the role of the 'victim' as his relative is missing? pure speculation but hey)

confirmed lg can supposedly see into the future with his power. Not taking this at 100% face value considering how dodgy lu guang is around their powers and the fact he's keeping track of timings so thoroughly but at least at this point, he's claiming it's the case, so.

makes me wonder if his notes on timings are from previous loops or if he's just spamming photos when he's worried about something and noting down the timings (hospital-boat arc???)

so many xia fei cameos. I wasn't counting but there were at least three and curiously he appears plenty *before* anyone is even in yingdu (and we know he's got plenty of billboards over there). He's got some global reach for someone who appears zero times in s1 and s2 (which could just be down to them not having written him yet but does make his absence previously more obvious by comparison)

somehow there's *more* prominence on clocks/watches than even normal link click (makes sense as lu guang himself has such a focus on them and we're way more in his pov now). Interestingly though, I don't *think* we saw the time at the beginning when cxs was in the dark room

oh also! when lu guang expects cheng xiaoshi to ask how he "divined" the answer and cxs essentially says he'll wait for lg to tell him + him mentioning he'd sensed lg was hiding something from the very start. sth sth works on a broader scale than just the initial power reveal

also gdi no homura fan lu guang reveal. he gets his time travel stories from other anime, smh

belated realisation edit: lu guang clapped his hands when he checked the photo at the con. This *could* indicate cxs-style diving but I somewhat doubt this both because lg is implied to now be stuck in this time and also because time passes parallel between the inside and outside of a photo so he couldn't speedrun a full dive in the few seconds he took? in which case, is he just clapping because he himself doesn't realise yet he can activate his own powers without clapping? would fit with this reading as an earlier lg. hard to decide what happened there for sure without more info though tbh

[alextydaisuda123]

«WARNING! Lots of text»

I've been wanting to talk about how everyone in Echo sees Pizzahead in their dreams. I think many have noticed that Pizzahead's appearance is different for everyone. This is an interesting detail for me that I want to clarify. Each appearance is connected to either their memories, their characteristics, or their general feelings. For example:

Pepperman sees him as a blurry and crooked sketch that can change its features as he wants (yes, in his dream PH was originally like this, but let's think that he can change in style too, from a crooked sketch to a real figure, I just want to justify how he sees him).

This is due to his creativity and simply the fact that for Phil, Pizzahead was an ambiguous person. From the very beginning, they were like good friends, because PH did not really show himself, worming his way into his trust, and PM was frivolous, trusted him and did not think about who he really was, and only with each year of life in the tower, he gradually began to see rotten sides in him, until he finally became who he sees him now.

Vigilante sees him as a corpse, covered in the remains of those cheese slugs that "died because of him."

He continues to blame himself for how he was trusting of someone who was truly his enemy, he just couldn't disobey someone who was higher in rank than him. He also blames himself for the deaths of those he couldn't save, because his position as sheriff weighed on him with responsibility for them all. His image of PH from the dream refers a little to an insignificant, but deeply rooted memory, which acquired its features and meaning precisely because of the feeling of guilt.

Noise sees him as a clot of blood, meat and intestines.

He initially had a not very good idea of ​​Pizzahead, to some extent, he saw him as a simple clown, but there was some hope for the future, since all Noise wanted was to earn a lot and film his own shows, as well as fulfill Noisette's dream with her cafe. Partly, everything happened like that, but Pizzahead eventually limited him and left him in the role of an ordinary mascot who does not like pizza. It would seem that he could object to him and change everything for himself, but ... then threats against him worked, which he did not expect at all. What was at stake was what he valued most: no, not money, it's Noisette. And now, his "role" has become a kind of curse and a fixed image to which he is accustomed, and without which no one would recognize him. And Noise also has an opinion that PH has a rotten inside, which is ironic, the same as Noise. Which played into the image of PH from the dream. And Noise is a pure horror lover, so here it is.

Bruno's situation is much more interesting, because the image of Pizzahead in his dream has hardly changed. The change affected only the face, namely his soulless look.

Bruno initially, when he was created, thought that PH was reliable and good, but this turned out to be a lie. Bruno was given the task of being like the original, according to which he was created, that is, to be like Peppino. But he could not cope with this and Pizzahead was unhappy with him. And when he began to better understand the emotions and feelings of others, all that Bruno remembered about Pizzahead was his look, full of disappointment and soullessness. And since for PH, Fake Peppino was nothing more than a toy and a soulless thing, he could mock him as he liked, watching the reaction. A vivid reaction turned out to be fear.

Peppino doesn't have any scary image of Pizzahead, it remained the way he remembered it.

No, not because I couldn't come up with it for him. Because he doesn't need it, their meeting was enough for him to remember his image and make him scary due to his simplicity. He is rather frightened by Pizzahead's abilities, which is why the image fades in comparison. In the end, he not only lured him out of the restaurant with a threat, but also prepared various tests for him that made him remember his old trauma after the war. And all for what? For the sake of fucking fun that ended in tragedy!

[multi-dudes]

I think it also needs to be said that the only trauma that is talked about is often these huge, overarching events that the victim either remembers vividly or has a massive basis for remembering. and is painted in a way that makes it easier for neurotypical, nontraumatized people to understand the basic idea of. not those who experience symptoms of C-PTSD or other trauma-based disorders like DID.

even disregarding the fact DID causes varying amnesia and dissociation, micro-trauma is such a real thing. especially for neurodivergent people who are experiencing lifelong struggles like heightened emotions (or crushing lack of), aggressive sensory environments, hallucinations or delusions, etc. and we often deal with those all by ourselves, or told to suck it up, especially as children.

even if it's your normal state, even if that's all you've ever known, those things can cause trauma that build and build. they will until all you can place is a "bad feeling" and post-trauma symptoms.

this was my experience - and I know it's real because I went through emdr (which led to the current syscovery LOL) and processing these "bad vibes" actually worked, for what it's worth. but before that, I absolutely told myself these things were nothing in comparison to what they could've been. the reality is trauma is much more individualized and nuanced.

at 7 years old, this situation repeatedly happening or being put onto you could be more traumatizing than now. but if that's never addressed really, it doesn't make your tolerance automatically raise with age. maybe a "mundane" kind of trauma happened since you were 4, and you couldn't ever find time to recover from it, going through it day to day until you were 7, or 12, or 24... that's still enough! trauma is too individual to judge as "enough" or not.

"my trauma wasn't bad enough i can't be a system"

whenever I hear people say this I always wonder, what metric are you using? your tolerance for how things affect you now as a teenager, or adult?

something that you experienced as a child is going to use a completely different metric! a child's brain is much less developed than an adult's and what they're able to handle is much less. for instance maybe you like horror movies? you probably can watch them without even getting scared! but if you watched the same film at 7 years old it would likely be a lot different!!

you don't need extreme trauma in order to have DID. it just needed to be extreme enough to YOU as a child, that's all. You got bullied at school? that's enough to develop DID! you had a disorder from an early age that made life hard? that's enough to develop DID! your parents were neglectful? that's enough to develop DID!

there's no such thing as gold star DID you don't need to have gone through the worst of the worst. there's no need for trauma olympics, if you have DID you have DID and that's all!

[raven-at-the-writing-desk]

Hi Ravennn~ I’ve been a follower for a p long time and one of my fave parts of your blog is just reading about your twst fangirl crashouts (complimentary) (the Leona rot tag is too funny)! However, I have noticed that Rook, one of your previous twst oshis, has slowly fallen out of favor over time. I’m just curious about what happened?

[For your reference, here is my updated personal al tier list; the "Leona rot tag" is here.]

Hello, hello, and thank you for sticking with me for so long TTwTT wdym I don't have Twst fangirl crashouts... I DON'T ROT OVER LION, DON'T BELIEVE THE PROPOGANDA--

For comparison, my last Rook Hunt thirst post was made in late April 2024 whereas my last NOT L*ONA ROT post was made... literally yesterday 💀 As you can see... major discrepancy. The two characters had the same number of posts under similar tags mid-October 2024... But now, in December 2024... L*ona has 160 posts, which is 46 more than Rook's 114. And it has been 73 days since the boys were neck-and-neck, meaning I averaged 1.7 (almost TWO entire posts OTL) NOT L*ONA ROTs per day 🤡

I genuinely feel so bad for Rook because him falling lower in my personal tier list has nothing to do with him and everything to do with what the characters AROUND him did. Both Sebek and L*ona got tons of new, juicy content for me to dissect and appreciate between the book 7 updates and Lost in the Book with Nightmare Before Christmas. Like, have you SEEN the number of analyses I pumped out for just those two alone the past few months?? At least 6, maybe nearing 10. It's insane. They just blitzed by the poor huntsman and shot up, knocking him down in the rung in the process. All Rook got was that crumb that was his own dream + maaaybe a bit of Vil's (that part where he played announcer was silly, but I didn't get anything else from him) OTL

On the bright side, I think Rook would be a good sport about it! He'd cheer on Sebek and L*ona to do their very best, even if it comes at the cost of him taking a lower place.

[waitineedaname]

I think I need to make a giant venn diagram between homestuck, hlvrai, svsss, and orv

[inkskinned]

you were raised in comparison.

it wasn't always obvious (well. except for the times that it was), but you internalized it young. you had to eat what you didn't like, other people are going hungry, and you should be grateful. you had to suck it up and walk on the twisted ankle, it wasn't broken, you were just being a baby. you were never actually suffering, people obviously had it worse than you did.

you had a roof over your head - imagine! with the way you behaved, with how you talked back to your parents? you're lucky they didn't kick you out on your ass. they had friends who had to deal with that. hell, you have friends who had to deal with that. and how dare you imply your father isn't there for you - just because he doesn't ever actually talk to you and just because he's completely emotionally checked out of your life doesn't mean you're not fucking lucky. think about your cousins, who don't even get to speak to their dad. so what if yours has a mean streak; is aggressive and rude. at least you have a father to be rude to you.

you really think you're hurting? you were raised in a home! you had access to clean water! you never so much as came close to experiencing a real problem. sure, okay. you have this "mental illness" thing, but teenagers are always depressed, right. it's a phase, you'll move on with your life.

what do you mean you feel burnt out at work. what do you mean you mean you never "formed healthy coping mechanisms?" we raised you better than that. you were supposed to just shoulder through things. to hold yourself to high expectations. "burning out" is for people with real jobs and real stress. burnout is for people who have sick kids and people who have high-paying jobs and people who are actually experiencing something difficult. recently you almost cried because you couldn't find your fucking car keys. you just have lost your sense of gratitude, and honestly, we're kind of hurt. we tell you we love you, isn't that enough? if you want us to stick around, you need to be better about proving it. you need to shut up about how your mental health is ruined.

it could be worse! what if you were actually experiencing executive dysfunction. if you were really actually sick, would you even be able to look at things on the internet about it? you just spend too much time on webMD. you just like to freak yourself out and feel like you belong to something. you just like playing the victim. this is always how you have been - you've always been so fucking dramatic. you have no idea how good you have it - you're too fucking sensitive.

you were like, maybe too good of a kid. unwilling to make a real fuss. and the whole time - the little points, the little validations - they went unnoticed. it isn't that you were looking for love, specifically - more like you'd just wanted any one person to actually listen. that was all you'd really need. you just needed to be witnessed. it wasn't that you couldn't withstand the burden, but you did want to know that anyone was watching. these days, you are so accustomed to the idea of comparison - you don't even think you belong in your own communities. someone always fits better than you do. you're always the outlier. they made these places safe, and then you go in, and you are just not... quite the same way that would actually-fit.

you watch the little white ocean of your numbness lap at your ankles. the tide has been coming in for a while, you need to do something about it. what you want to do is take a nap. what you want to do is develop some kind of time machine - it's not like you want your life to stop, not completely, but it would really nice if you could just get everything to freeze, just for a little while, just until you're finished resting. but at least you're not the worst you've been. at least you have anything. you're so fucking lucky. do you have any concept of the amount of global suffering?

a little ant dies at the side of your kitchen sink. you look at its strange chitinous body and think - if you could just somehow convince yourself it is enough, it will finally be enough and you can be happy. no changes will have to be made. you just need to remember what you could lose. what is still precious to you.

you can't stop staring at the ant. you could be an ant instead of a person, that is how lucky you are. it's just - you didn't know the name of the ant, did you. it's just - ants spend their whole life working, and never complain. never pull the car over to weep.

it's just - when it died, it curled up into a tight little ball.

something kind of uncomfortable: you do that when you sleep.