#there's something legitimately so funny to me about how Nol literally tried to make Shinae see the light re: Dieter

[trashlie]

heyooo it's lil anon again 😼 sorry for disappearing for a while. hope you've been well, though! <3 i'm glad you enjoyed my shinae powerpoint headcanons, your reaction made me smile so much my cheeks hurt LMAO

on anti-hero nol, i'm actually 100% with you! i'm a firm believer in "living well is the best revenge" and i *need* to see this character heal and find peace :( </3 it's just the possibility of it hanging over his head that appeals to me; him coming close to tipping over, being aware that he could go down this path and would have all the reasons and justifications to do it, but then still choosing not to. but yeah hopefully he doesn't cross that line and becomes a dying star like you put it so beautifully ;A; what do you think of the possibility of him becoming the ceo btw? there has been some foreshadowing, but personally i don't see current nol being happy in a position like that, he hates this entire environment too much. also i just don't like the idea of him becoming a venture capitalist lmao ;; that patreon post of the trio post-timeskip and nol being dressed in casual clothes (instead of business-like like shin and kou) kinda aligns with my thoughts, but i know it's very flimsy lol. also crazy thought but walk with me for a second. capitalism being evil aside, what if in a turn of events shinae becomes the ceo instead? wouldn't that be wild for SO many reasons? listen, chances are low but never zero! 😋

re: alyssa... first of all, thank you for your detailed commentary, i completely agree with what you said about her circumstances, sexuality, need to fit in etc. and it's great that you like her and are optimistic about her, i genuinely mean it! the main reason i don't vibe with alyssa is that she uses people as stepping stones to climb higher and never lifts them up with her. for example, when she started hanging out with more people in middle school, she could've used her "improved" social standing to help shinae. she could've introduced her, been like "hey this girl is actually really cool guys give her a chance". but instead she started ignoring shinae, basically tried to get rid of her when she didn't need her anymore. yeah, she kind of defended shinae once, but that's not enough for me. you can say maybe she feared losing her new status, or was scared of her feelings, or was simply too immature, but i think she really should know what it's like to be an outcast, what it's like to be alone. and it bothers me that she basically just left shinae behind when she moved up. same thing when she met nol/soushi/dieter; she latched on to nol to benefit from his family and then started ignoring him, doing the bare minimum to not lose that connection. we've never actually seen her with soushi/dieter. i wouldn't be surprised if she's never even contacted them after becoming a trainee/mingling with the upper class. her desperate need to fit in and aspiring power are meh but understandable, but it's the lack of gratitude and empathy that just bothers me :// like these are all people who were kind to her when she was at her lowest, yet this is how she treats them? she just... takes it all for granted and never gives back? some might say she doesn't owe them anything, but to me, it's just basic decency. not to sound cheesy, but... climb the ladder all you want, just don't forget who was there for you when you were at the bottom :/ and yeah i'd still love for her to free herself from yui and grow as a person (and ideally end her comphet era), but i also wonder if there's even space for major alyssa development...

i also saw your recent post on the entire shinae dieter nol/romantic development thing fiasco and hoo boy you are so right. tbh what also really bothers me (on top of the hypocrisy and ableism) is how people tend to strip female characters of their agency 💀 like... how about we let shinae have her own preferences and make her own choices, even if it contradicts with what we'd personally do in her situation? instead of inserting ourselves via her and simultaneously centering everything around the guys??

this might ruffle some feathers. while i respect everyone's preferences, concerns, and opinions, it seems to me like some people who vehemently want shinae and dieter to be canon (or want nol and shinae to stay platonic) just... don't see the bigger picture here. like, nol and shinae are supposed to be the counterpart to rand and nessa. they're supposed to break free from yui and achieve the happiness rand and nessa tragically couldn't. in the context of the full story, them being lovers has a significant narrative purpose. don't get me wrong, i really don't believe that *all* ships need to have a narrative purpose, or that it makes a ship better, not at all! and it doesn't mean everyone has to *like* this ship, but it's important to understand that there is a reason why it's these two characters and not anyone else. i know this is very meta and i don't blame readers for not seeing the parallels (yet) because the hints have been very subtle, but once you realize it, you just can't unsee it... and sure, i don't know how the story will go, i might be completely wrong. but i'd be surprised if quim misses out on the opportunity to explore this parallel after setting it up. idk. what are your thoughts?

oh gosh, i talked so much again. alright. peace out - lil anon 😼

AHHHHH Lil Anon!!! I've missed you!!!! I hope you've been well! I got so excited when I opened tumblr and saw a new message notification because I was so hopeful it would be you! I haven't been able to pull myself together to talk about the recent episodes (which is a shame because I am LOVING them!) but I think this is gonna give me the head space to do it, now!!! Sometimes you just gotta dip your toe in and then the full brainrot goes STRONG!

what do you think of the possibility of him becoming the ceo btw? there has been some foreshadowing, but personally i don't see current nol being happy in a position like that, he hates this entire environment too much.

BOY DO I HAVE SOME THOUGHTS! I'm very much with you, here. Just like I'm not into the idea of Nol being an anti-hero and his story being about revenge, I can't see him becoming CEO. I think people want it because the whole taking from Kousuke what he wants*, defying Yui's intentions, the David and Goliath of it all and I get that but - right. I want Nol to live WELL, I want him to live HAPPILY. I don't want him in a career that he doesn't love the way Kousuke has been, I don't want him in an environment that doesn't appeal to him. And maybe we're wrong - maybe there's a part of him that feels comfortable and will thrive, but from what little he's said of it, when he told Shinae he doesn't feel like it he fits in to this world really he's just putting on that mask, playing that role, it makes me feel like it's not his ideal setting. And, yes, I have considered the Patreon illustration as part of this. I know this was work for a client so we can only glean so much from it - is she really using it as a glimpse of the future? I like to think so!

But something I've been thinking a LOT about re: this current arc is that we will at some point see Nol, Kousuke, and Shinae as a team. I've always thought she's going to be that bridge, but I think Nol and Kousuke themselves are going to find their ways to peace and healing.... but it's gonna be a long road lol. But something I've been talking about with another reader is that we could have the trio set up where Kousuke acts as a double agent and Corporate World Shinae is the eyes and ears for Nol who I think may not join in the corporate world. Now, I can't be more detailed about how I think this would work because I am not a corporate person at alllll lmao but I think there's something soooo satisfying about the idea of Kousuke following the path Yui intended, but to turn around and use that power to dismantle her. Could he (and Shinae) quietly amass allies? Could he enact policy change that would somehow oppose her or her methods? Where does Nol come into this? Look idk I gotta see what the future holds LMAO but I've come to really love this idea of them being a team beneath Yui's nose, of Yui's little creation taking everything she taught him everything she instilled in him and using it against her lmaoooo

Hear me out, okay? I know right now it seems like Nol has wiped his hands of Kousuke, has said too little too late that's not changing. But Nol is under the impression that Yui loves Kousuke. He's under the impression that Kousuke has always had his needs met, that she'd do anything for him, that she has always treated him like a prince. But we know now that's not the case. We can see that Kousuke never had that warm, loving relationship with Yui that Nol had with Nessa. And with the theory that Yui has been drugging Kousuke become more and more likely, I think Nol will have a change of heart whenever things come to light, whenever he realizes that Kousuke, too, has been very much a victim of Yui, that he was denied things that even Nol had for a short time. I don't think it means immediate forgiveness, but I think Nol would be able to find a formidable ally in someone who also cannot trust Yui further than he could throw her, who has been used and neglected by her.

There's a lot I hope for with the tragic siblings lmao. Nol has always felt Kousuke was the favored one, the one lavished in love when his was taken away. But Kousuke had always felt that Nol had the easy life, that because he didn't have to earn Rand's love (because he thought Nol had once done it) his life was easy, no burden or expectations. But once they both get that out of the way, once they see how the other has lived? What could be more glorious than the two people Yui set to make enemies of each other teaming up to destroy her with Shinae?

I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT!

That said I've never considered the idea of Shinae as CEO! Like Nol, I don't think it's quite something she'd want - I really just. Like the idea of Shinae helping people, but if she's going to stay in the corporate world like we think, then what would she be doing? Would she remain as Kousuke's assistant? Would she find that she has strength in something else? I'm really curious to see what her path is, because I don't know if this is going to be a "discover a strength you didn't realize you possessed" kind of deal or a "stay in this world so that you can defeat the evil and then figure yourself out" kind of thing.

Since Nol intended to follow in Rand's footsteps - was it his own empty hope that maybe he could make Rand see him for who he is, to be proud of him for once? or is it that this IS what he wants? Is that what he's going to do after prison? I'm so insatiably curious about this part of the future - where will everyone be? What are their intentions?! That image on patreon lives rent free at the back of my mind lmao like it's just SO intriguing to me, and how Nol seems so lax compared to Shinae but they're still linked to each other? I WANT TO SEE THE FUTURE SO BADLY!

When it comes to Alyssa, don't worry, I definitely get this! Like... there are DEFINITELY reasons to dislike Alyssa - I just always ask that people who dislike her dislike her for those reasons lmao like. I feel like so often she's gotten dislike simply because she "stands in the way of a ship" (which is... lmao hard to argue at this point of the story).

but i think she really should know what it's like to be an outcast, what it's like to be alone.

I think this is why I really want to see the story go to a place where Alyssa does have that fall from grace - where Sarah Lee of all people brings up bullying allegations and Alyssa's fans turn on her. Both because she has to, at some point, realize that conditional love is not going to fill the void she's trying to fill, and yes, because at some point if she's to grow, she NEEDS to contend with being alone - really alone, with only herself. I also agree that we may not have that in this story. I know I've discussed this before but it's very likely there are characters who won't see a "redemption arc". I just hope we get to see her grow, that maybe if she faces what she's been so afraid of, she'll finally see what she took for granted, what she didn't appreciate. I don't think it's likely that she'll win people over as fans lol but I guess I just acknowledge that I enjoy some really messy girls so I can't hold that against others who don't lmaoooo Alyssa is one of those characters who I think I'm as critical of as I enjoy, because what makes her so fascinating to me is the ways that she is uhhh... not a great friend, not a great partner lmaooo but I can't help but want to see her do better, be better. But I genuinely don't think it will happen unless she can find that comfort with herself.

And I guess that IS the thing about why I like her - there's something so very human about her that even if I don't approve of what she does, even if I hope for her to make changes, I understand why she is, and why she may never. But look, I acknowledge I'm a very hopeful person for some reason hah!

like... how about we let shinae have her own preferences and make her own choices, even if it contradicts with what we'd personally do in her situation? instead of inserting ourselves via her and simultaneously centering everything around the guys??

The funny thing about this is - this is how shipping has ALWAYS been. I know I was guilty of it when I was younger, too. I'm not even sure when I changed, but just that I was one day very aware of shipping debates that went "Well, I just don't think he's very masculine and I personally don't like him so I ship her with the other guy" and right like at that point... go write your self-insert fic, friend! That's clearly what you want, that's okay! Go write it! Shipping is fun and I'm not going to accuse people who get very into media for shippy reasons for reading for the wrong reasons or something, but right like... at the end of the day is it about YOUR preferences or is it about what makes most sense with the characters?

Like, I know whenever I talk about my shipping feelings I always preface that frankly, I don't think Shinae and Nol are in the place FOR a relationship right now. Nol is still trying to hide his feelings, Shinae isn't aware of hers. I think ultimately when people ship things, they ship them in a best case scenario. Like, shipping them doesn't mean I NEED them to confess and start dating right now - it means I hope that eventually that outcome may be, but I'm enjoying their interactions, I'm enjoying how they affect each other, I'm enjoying how their relationship affects the story.

And yeah! From a meta point, it's really clear that parallel has been set in motion. And definitely, shipping based on literature device is not a reason TO ship - but I think it just plays into what makes them shippable? Because yeah we see them mirroring something that was ultimately tragic, something with a ripple effect so vast it's caught all of these people in the waves, and we want to see it go differently. We see Nol falling into his father's footsteps whether or not he realizes it and we want to see him stop that, we want to see the generational cycle ended. And as a device it works BECAUSE of what they mean to each other, what their chemistry is. It gives us an idea of what Rand and Nessa were like, and we end up hoping that Shinae can be to Nol what Nessa couldn't be to Rand. What could have happened if they'd been able to be a team, if they'd been able to deal with the obstacles around them.

And that's what makes a story! If a story was meant to be about the easiest routes, the "safest" or "healthiest" routes, would there be any story? And I say safest or healthiest that way because we don't know that Dieter and Shinae WOULD be any healthier. Like, yeah Dieter is straight forward about Shinae and he doesn't have a reason to hide or deny his feelings. But by virtue of being a more well-adjusted character, it's likely to be harder for Dieter to understand or deal with Shinae's particular baggage. It's not just about if one half of this relationship is "stable" because Shinae, too, has baggage. That's why we see Nol and Shinae drawn to each other on that emotional level even when they don't realize it right away - Shinae understands Nol's skittishness, why he pushes people away and isolates himself, because she's been there. Likewise, we've see that he understands when she isolates herself, when she put her walls back up to him and he made her take them down.

There's so many things I could - and maybe will one day - write about how the thing about Nol and Shinae is that they operate on the same frequency. Dieter provides security, that's definitely true. But security is not the end all of relationships, and it's not what everyone seeks, either. To some people, that's too safe, too healthy lol.

But right, between the writing acknowledging that Nol and Shinae operate on the same frequency, how they're able to understand and accept the way the other is and the very obvious parallel to Rand and Nessa set up, it's clear that this route provides more story. Again, like you said, that's not a reason TO necessarily ship something, but the set up is done not in spite of what Dieter and Shinae could be. It doesn't sacrifice a chunk of story for nothing, you know?

idk I have a lot of thoughts that maybe I'll get down one day but right, that's what it really comes down to. The parallel between Nessa/Rand and Shinae/Nol wouldn't work as well if they didn't have that chemistry, if they didn't respond to each other the way they do. It's the way Shinae continues to try to reach him even when he tries to push her away. It's the stupid way he tries to push her away but has that tendency to fold. It's the way she brings him that comfort and peace, and how he brought out of a part of her she was too afraid to ever let out again. I don't think I'd be much into the pairing at this point if it seemed to me that Shinae had no stock in it, if it didn't have pay off for her. If it was constantly being hurt with no sign of him ever changing? But she herself has made the resolution to keep trying, to find a new approach, to break down his walls like he did for her. And frankly? She's never really seemed to like things coming to her easy has she alfjkfakjfaj LMAO

At the end of the day, it's about Shinae's choices. It's not about what is healthiest, what is more stable, who has hurt who. It's about who want to be with each other \o/ It's fine to be disappointed if she doesn't end up dating Dieter, but yeah, it feels weird for the discourse to end up being "Dieter liked her first" or "He's more stable" instead of it being "Oh no poor Dieter, it looks like Shinae has developed feelings for his friend :(" or something that allows her to have her agency.

(Also I hate the "so and so liked them first" because it also removes the agency of the other person. Dieter liked her first, it's true, but if he wound up liking his friend, and his friend wound up liking her, does that mean they can never be together? Dieter will not be hung up on Shinae for the rest of his life, I am sure. In the same way that Dieter has been comfortable and secure for Shinae, I think she was similar to him, too. She made him feel seen. And there will be others who will make him feel seen, too. His heart will heal and he will be okay. Acting like it's a cardinal sin for Nol to have inadvertently developed feelings is so afljkakfjjkaf? If he could control his feelings that way, then he would have used to that control to not care about them like he so badly wanted to lmao. If he could control his feelings, he would have done everything in his power to stop! alfkjkafkjafjkf see this is why I'm gonna wind up writing an essay one day. YOU THINK NOL INTENDED TO FALL FOR SHINAE?! He only just realized that's what's happened lmao you think he schemed for this? You think he pointedly did things to make her like him so he could "steal" her from someone she isn't dating? YELLS)