#them. like sam had amelia dean hates that. dean has benny sam hates that. like ok!

[cockworkangels]

very hypocritical of sam "monsterfucker" winchester to disapprove of dean's vampire boyfriend

[shallowrambles]

to the user that messaged me that doesn’t want to be known, you can ask as anon next time and i can answer that way instead. :)

in part i agree with you!!! - i actually do differ from the fandom on these aspects although im super sympathetic to the conversion therapy and “gender policing sam” readings!!!

///

one, on sam policing dean’s grief and emotions - when he’s teasing, i agree that he’s not doing anything more severe than dean calling sam “samantha” or ragging on his long hair…

when he’s shutting down dean’s emotions, i agree that dean also sometimes encourages stoic resilience from sam. example: in season 12 dean tells sam to basically use his grief around eileen’s death to channel into hunting. “use that.”

so on the whole, i actually agree with you that it’s not a uniquely “sam” issue! both of them have expectations of each other that definitely has a gendered dimension, but i think it’s largely due to hunting itself. since they rely on each other in daily work and for safety during battle, they BOTH demand resilience and toughness of each other

DEAN and Bobby INCLUDED

///

two, sam in season 8 - yeah i don’t ascribe to benny situation being wholly about gender either, so we partially agree here too. i do think this situation has stronger support for this particular reading if you wanna go that way. but i tend to agree with you that it feels more “wrong side of the railroad tracks” situation and yes definitely more analogous to ruby-is-a-bad-influence vibe.

benny saved dean’s life but ruby ALSO saved sam’s life. sam’s reason given to trust ruby was the same reason dean gave to trust benny. ruby had personal motivations, but benny also had motivations that weren’t wholly about dean’s wellbeing (escape hatch, revenge on his maker, even the reliance on him as a source of support/food/blood donation/“dealer”).

sam doesn’t have much reason to trust benny besides dean’s word…which if we take the deleted scene about benny “falling off the wagon”, that beautifully complicates the situation. (they should’ve left it in to underline the moral grayness of it all imho; it better demonstrates the push-pull theme of assuming the best vs assuming the worst)

sam can be unlikeable, but like it or not, he is mistrusting benny the same way dean mistrusted ruby…the way dean didn’t cut amy pond any slack for her ethical mistake. if ruby and amy had been handsome men like crowley and benny, i wonder if they’d have seemed less disposable? i don’t know. i think so.

all in all, i think dean and sam both pivot to black-and-white “hunting code” thinking after heavy losses bc they’re struggling for control in the chaos. dean went into white picket fence escapism post losing sam in season 5, and he went hard into hunting re:amy directly post-losing cas. likewise, sam went hard into escapism with amelia and then hard into hunting after losing dean, cas, and bobby. so the coping goes. it’s not one-to-one but certainly has a parallel dynamic. (cas too! he checked out in season 6 and followed it up with going hard in on dubious heaven trials and the “penance” of angelic civil war).

honestly, i reckon it’s tough tits for dean that his past behavior around “teammates from the wrong side of the railroad tracks” set up sam to echo it in season 8. (sorry, dean!!!! it's true!!!) sam also paralleled dean and bobby’s detox stuff during the season 10 demon dean “drug intervention”. …and that’s just my take on it. I feel like it's text.

if crowley is Other and demon dean represents Alternative Lifestyle… then so does Ruby. which is fine. i personally don’t think demonic sam or moc!dean were shown to have healthy endpoints, so I don't view them as super secret "true selves." but if you view those as false worst-case/fictitious fear-driven endpoints or even flat out “true self” endpoints, i think that is fine. so long as there’s acknowledgment that sam’s behavior isn’t so different from dean’s in earlier seasons.

i think the sam hate gets a little black-and-white sometimes, and i agree it can be frustrating.

yeah, in season 8, dean was idealizing a perfect war companion “who never let him down” to replace his brother, who was a flawed war companion that let him down repeatedly. However, the deleted scene implies benny did indeed “fall off the wagon” and fed on humans. even if it were more like amy pond’s necessity and carefulness, it’s certainly a more ethically gray scenario and likely comparable “failure.”

ergo, while sam was very classist and rigid/assuming the worst about the whole situation, dean represented the other idealist extreme. i’ve said a lot about how i view season 8 as being about extreme delusions of perfection/escapism/easy rules/not being let down, and benny is another example of that theme in action - the implication is that the situation is way more gray than it appears at first.

the implication is that sam was partially right about the situation being dangerous, which is a gorgeous dimension imho. like it or not, we as audience saw benny get tempted to kill dean at one point too, so…to ignore sam’s concerns is somewhat of a fandom idealization of dean and dean’s judgment. (season 8 is all about figments and idealization imho)

So yeah i’m with you here too on some points!

the more interesting part lies in the winchester hypocrisy itself, and that humans aren’t executed as rigidly for their mistakes! it’s about how we naturally emphasize with in-groups, even if that manifests as implicit bias. the human condition.

///

point three, demon dean - you’ll be surprised to find that i agree with you here too. demon dean and crowley are often posited by fandom as dean being his “true self” but the series does not present it that way; it presents crowley as frankly predatory and exploitative. dean’s forgiveness of the situation is more analogous to claire forgiving those that wronged her (cas, even randy, dean).

dean explicitly states to Cas, the person he's most up-front with, that he doesn’t view his demonic stint as a good thing. to cas: “I can’t become that thing again.”

i view demon dean as a predatory manipulation of consent during a vulnerable time, analogous to metatron honing in on post-naomi-tortured cas. to me, the text shows an obvious and egregious manipulation, and with demon dean, the loss of inhibitions is underlined again and again…for example, when dean talks about the “jailbait” on the college campus and the blackout kills. I view the issue with the mark as being more centered on the loss of inhibitions and subsequent loss of free will, not the violence itself. dean verbalized his discomfort with this loss of control. sam doesn’t just make the judgment of dean's control on his own internal moral grounds. he listens to dean about his verbalized loss of control. so does cas, for that matter.

in the early eps, demon dean says he “loves the disease” because one of dean's primary modes is running from pain and disappointment. that’s not a “secret true self” imho - it’s more like a junkie who checks out, more analogous to sam’s addiction than not. or to cas's blissed-out, poetic "checkout" in season 7.

///

as i said above, sam treats hopped up demon dean as dean and bobby treated him — with a forced detox!!!! i am sympathetic to the other reading but to me it doesn’t fully match what i see on screen. (in fact parallel detoxes are shown to be overall helpful, even for characters like crowley!!!)

if sam’s detox of dean is about “dean’s true self,” then sam’s detox is about “sam’s true self.” demon blood intake and the burden of the mark are in parallel: they wear down their markers, eradicating their feelings and inhibitions over time, transforming them into black-eyed demons…

even when they initially wield their dark powers in the name of good.

as for sam hating on crowley… despite our love of crowley, sam is working from what he saw out of crowley ; he’s very reasonable to be concerned and distrustful of him…the same way dean was reasonable to be mistrustful of ruby. crowley had a very fresh history of killing and torturing kevin’s loved ones…it was still in sam’s sight lines.

sam is NOT turning against crowley simply because crowley is “queer coded and sam is therefore homophobic" but bc crowley recently did a lot of really bad shit and showed no remorse. plus, he clearly acted in his own interests at dean’s expense. there’s no controversy whether or not crowley manipulated dean in order to getting rid of abbadon, then preying upon him after his inhibitions were destroyed. that’s text.

now, is crowley that black and white? hell no! like meg and ruby, he was also abused by hell and preyed upon by demons. he is in the process of genuinely rediscovering his humanity!!! i will defend crowley and rowena to the death, btw, but a lot of crowley’s shit gets overlooked in season 10 bc fandom (myself included!) can sometimes prefer a cool metaphor over entertaining that sam’s judgment can at times be reasonably founded (sam’s bad behavior notwithstanding).

crowley and metatron are both presented as ppl who target attack dogs in their moments of weakness to gain positional objectives/power.

(both of them also underestimate those attack dogs and bite off more than they can chew/control!!!! crowley HATED when demon dean became beyond his control; and metatron HATED it when "cas was good at war -> "I didn't think he'd be good at it.")

///

summary / main pts

drug detox - on the whole, i find it a conspicuous blind spot that sam’s choice to do “drug intervention” gets layered with all this symbolic "extra shit "extra" when bobby and dean's “drug intervention” is sometimes viewed as justified/ for sam’s own good.

i view instead that they’re both heavy-handed interventions that are mostly about the wellbeing of the person (demon dean included). that's the rub about caretaking and parenting, after all--it inevitably involves a loss of independence in order to protect that person!!! balancing these two things is hard! that's the whole thing with family! security/firm boundaries vs independance!

anyway, detox/human blood is what created a more rejuvenated/jumpstarted Crowley’s humanity in season 8, after all—it dimmed the fog of his demonic non-feeling. it was a GOOD thing.

both choices of “drugs,” sam’s demon blood and dean’s mark, are shown to result in a loss of inhibitions/free will with subsequent demonic transformation.

side note//thats not to say humans don’t also behave in morally reprehensible ways—just that demon-ness is more “numbing” and and the MOC has a whiff of “loss of free will” about it.

2. ruby and metatron’s bad motivations get more emphasized than characters like crowley. but sam was reasonable not to trust him in context of crowley’s season 8-10 actions/egregious ambitions. crowley’s bad behavior can get virtually ignored despite what he freshly did to mrs tran. sam is working from this incredibly recent history!!!

3. lastly, the danger benny textually posed to dean sometimes gets ignored because he’s a nice guy. that doesn’t erase sam’s prejudice and classism; it does however complicate dean’s idealization…which was rather the point of benny and the meat of most of dean’s season 8 arc imho. dean was dealing with his own flavor of perfectionism/unrealistic expectations to avoid disappointment/getting hurt again.

[rubyvhs]

i just finished 8x10 and oh my god

these boys are so co dependent calling it unhealthy is a compliment. benny has helped dean over and over and dean loves him and just trusts him sm + deans never had friends outside the hunting life, sure benny doesn’t count as outside but still it’s like there’s no favors or anything they just like each other— and sam leaving amelia when he LOVES HER he loves her like he’s loved jess and god knows when he’ll ever find something like that love again and i know they tried to downplay it with him thinking ‘he’s holding on to something’ but he’s never wanted the hunting life anyways so if he chose to leave it it wasn’t cause he’s ’holding on to amelia’ yk? like don’t use it as an excuse, bro never wanted to do it anyways. AND YET they both left behind the lives that made the other unhappy.

sam: i’m jealous of benny

[dean calls benny to tell him to fuck off]

dean: i’m jealous of amelia

[ sam leaves her stranded in a motel]

THESE MENNNNN i’m so in love with their dynamic and relationship like how do you even get to this point of putting the other first so much that you forget why you’re even alive anymore like dean has no reason to live, he’s always hated and always said he’s tried but bro doesn’t let anyone touch a hair on his head because he needs sam, needs to know he’s okay 24/7 and unless sam is in danger or his request to dean will put him in harms way, dean is always gonna keep fighting to do what sam wants, always gonna wanna be close to him & with him no matter the consequences or tutors he has to endure afterwards. i physically cant with them i love them sm

[iknow-becauseiwasthere]

SPN Season 7 Rewatch

- Hello Death! More Death! Love Death!

- I don’t hate the Leviathans! at least they are consistent foe for the season and narratively makes sense from opening purgatory

- This is the start of particularly stupid Dean/Sam beefs in first half of seasons. Right now i’m thinking this ranks third worst (looking at you Benny and Amelia)

- However this beef was way shorter than I remembered so I guess that is a plus

- Pro Spike and Cordy reunion in theory but that is a not great ep

- Pro Slash Fiction and the Mentalists, Slice Girls, and Out with the Old are sneaky solid eps

- SEASON 7 TIME FOR A WEDDING V PROBLEMATIC FOR BECKY BUT REIGNS SUPREME. I WISH THERE WERE MORE BECKY/CROWLEY SCENES

- Dean high on sandwich still great

- Love Bobby so much. But narratively Death’s Door and Adventures in Babysitting shifting Sam and Dean into more of a caretaker/adult role is needed. V similar to Dawn intro in BTVS s5. 

- Repo Man peak Lucy hallucinations I love this storyline so much

- Fuck yeah Charlie. I love their immediate familiarity and how Sam and Dean bond with her in different ways. I would beg to keep hanging out with them and helping.

- Again Leviathans are not terrible. But I'm not fully impressed with their plan to like fatten people up and why did they had to have like a teenage girl be the example? When they all show in cars is cool though

- Really wish alpha vamp was in more eps he rocks 

I was kinda down on this season while rewatching but writing this while watching season 8 has made me remember this fondly. Ready for Rowena. 

[milfcodeddean]

Thee Babiesnatural Post

Wherein I propose how we could give Dean as many kids as narratively possible. Inspired by a slurry of other posts about things like baby!Jack and baby! Amara this isnt supposed to make narrative sense beyond suspension of disbelief and I refuse to take criticism please consider my URL for my stance on these things. Dabb didn’t do the reading but I did. 

It’s long so it’s under the cut

So it starts with Bobby John the shapeshifter baby and like for whatever reason the alpha shifter doesn’t come or the kill him or whatever and the Campbells are just rubbing Dean the wrong way and the baby has already kind of imprinted on him so Dean realizes that he can’t like drop the kid off an orphanage but also he doesn’t trust most people who know about the supernatural to take care of him. He also thinks about his own childhood and the parts that sucked (moving constantly, j*hn) and the parts that didn’t (time spent at Bobby’s (and other peoples places like pastor Jim but he’s dead so)) and also how in s6 they’ve been kind of based out of Bobby’s half the time anyways at that point so they take the baby there and Bobby is delighted to have a namesake even if he’s initially doubtful. But he’s not gonna hurt deans kid and BJ is a baby. It’s awful to baby proof his house bc books and weapons and for a child that can’t touch silver but they manage a few rooms.

Also it creates a s6 Dean going back and forth between his hunting family including the baby and his civilian family of Lisa and Ben and it’s like a parallel to J*hn and Adam Milligan

Also Claire gets retrieved sooner bc Cas helps with the baby like a time or two and makes some comment about how his vessel had a child and they’re like oh yeah Claire and end up checking in on her situation sooner esp bc Dean is already feeling guilty about Ben so like they get Claire in her early teens

Emma happens. A few ways this could play out 1. Like canon with teenager but Sam doesn’t kill her. Claire gets a sister her age. 2. Because she doesn’t kill her dad the Amazon magic wears off and she’s back to being a baby? 3. She dies and gets found in purgatory

Bobby’s house burning is that much worse bc the baby was there too but Bobby and him both survived it. Dean feels bad turning into his father dragging kids around on the road.

Purgatory. Either finding baby Emma or not. Dean has a lot of bad thoughts about this is where at least 2 of his kids are going when they die. Befriending Benny adds to his inner doubts about morality and monster hunting.

Either Sam has the kids with him and that changes the Amelia thing or he leaves them with someone they know like Jody or Garth etc.

Surface side, Benny who has raised kids, is actually helpful with baby sitting and Claire thinks he’s the coolest bc he’s a real vampire and she doesn’t have any personal trauma related to him. Benny stays surface side and comes back with Sam bc he has actual reasons to live and a support system more and also bc he suggested to Dean that if/when Emma and Bobby-John die, that’s when Benny will get killed and then he’ll take care of them in purgatory .

The bunker is great bc it’s safe and they can put roots down bc the impala is getting a little full and Dean feels guilty about motel rooms. Henry Winchester meets his great grandkids and is delighted that some of them aren’t human bc he’s a MoL

Kevin gets moved in sooner.

Crypt scene- Dean tacks on something about ‘Claire and the kids need you’ in his whole speech. Claire gets very mad about him leaving with the tablet.

When the Krissy thing happens with all those teens and the guy working with vampires Dean tries and maybe successfully convinced her to move into the bunker and go to school in Kansas

Kevin doesn’t die bc gadreel has so many other people around and like I don’t actually know how the gadreel thing would play out like this but also we need Cas to be at the gas n sip

Maybe Cas is still doing his penance thing, maybe he thinks they need more income for that many kids. Maybe they still do the gadreel thing.

Anyways

I hate to fridge a woman but

Gas n sip lady dies and has no connections (why else would she ask her questionable employee to babysit)

Castiel could hand Tanya over to the authorities but also they still have a bunch of baby supplies and really what if angels come after her like they did her mother? Dean just takes one look at Tanya’s face and one look at Cas’s face and says fine and they have a new baby. (tanya post that loosely inspired this) 

This is where plot gets tricky bc I haven’t fully seen past season 9 and a lot of that uhh

Well Abaddon is still a problem and Cas is human and now busy with the new baby so Dean makes the choice to work with Crowley and get the Mark of Cain bc he’s extremely worried about Abaddon coming after his brood.

The kids get sent to Jody’s or Garth’s or just out when the Demon Dean thing happens and like he wouldn’t have hurt them bc isn’t that his line in the sand or whatever my knowledge is vague. But the prisoner scene still happens bc it’s Fun and the Cas and Collette parallel is even heavier bc they’re literally coparents

This is where I can’t specify plot any further

Amara doesn’t magically age but like that other post says Dean feels guilty about her so he takes care of her

Baby Jack bc Jack sees Castiel’s knowledge of Dean with his kids including several nonhuman ones and Jack decided it’s safe enough to be born a baby

This can be widower arc too and Dean is trying not to be his father and won’t let the other kids help bc that’s what he was forced to do but also he’s too exhausted to do anything besides take care of the newborn so Sam and Benny etc are picking up the slack with the other kids which can still be a source of conflict or whatever

Uh Magda moves in with them bc Sam is like if you can bring home stray children I can bring home stray children

Mary has a wild time catching up to life with her babies middle aged and raising monster kids but she adapts

Lebanon is a fun episode bc J*hn is awful and points a gun at Emma bc she flashed her eyes at him and this time it’s Sam who saves her. Something something J*hn says something awful about what he should have done to Sam to stop Dean from thinking monster kids can be saved or smth

Anyways if you think of any more kids I can give Dean or ways late seasons that I haven’t seen would be effected please add on

[artymcart]

I personally like your AU! You're in a tough spot with Saileen, though. So many D/C shippers have used Saileen to rip Sam away from Dean (which you're clearly not doing!) I love that your Saileen is complicated and not all sugar-coated and is just as important (or nearly as much) as Destiel. I'm looking forward to more of your Endverse fanworks! Your wild, long-haired witchy Sam is DELISH. <3

First of all, thank you so much! ♥

Second and here I will begin to ramble:

I have seen Supernatural from DAY ONE. Season 1, Episode 1, in the small living room of an US friend who lived in Heidelberg and was, for some strange reason OBSESSED with Jared lol.

So I´ve seen the relationship of Dean and Sam getting more and more deeper over the years, there were souls getting traded and deals getting made and hey, they even share the same Heaven. Soulmates. The writers said so.

And then Cas came and things shifted and I, for myself, thought "What a cute looking mother f*cker" and was happy how the show got into Christian Apocalypse and Hey, wow, the brothers came down from a super old line of blood which always was destined to KILL each other.

Yadda yadda, we go on for like 6 years, there´s Ruby and Lisa and that Amelia..thing and Benny and what is this eye fuck thing with Cas? Will there ever happen something?

Are we..imagine this? Is it acting choice? Is it directed? Are they doing this on purpose? Why do I get hate on the Internet for asking that?

Anyway, Dean has Cas and long lasting eye moments.

Sam has books. And the writers decided to give Sam this..weird asexual energy which felt strange because yeah, he had trauma and books and the Men of Letters Bunker, but it felt wrong?

And here she comes, Eileen.

She´s smart and she´s able to defend herself. Yeah she´s deaf but tell her that and she´ll punch you in the face. She´s there and she has eyes for Sam and he´s OPEN and we see a side on him which makes him look 10 years younger.

THERE IS SOMETHING.

And then the writers thought: Hey, Sam I-have-no-character-development-since-season-12 Winchester needs MORE trauma. Let´s get the deaf woman, he likes and has hard crush on, killed by INVISIBLE creatures who pull her soul to friggin hell.

It´s Sam and Dean again, they hug, they cry silently in their pillows, they have breakfast together, it´s the end of the world.

Eileen comes back. As a ghost. And Sam has a thing for magic, from his witch wife he had to kill because the writers hate woman. He fights against teenagers, he brings Eileen back. She´s naked, they hug, he holds her tight, she looks comfy af.

And she´s besties with Dean and Cas likes her and if Mary would´ve met her she would have given Sam the "If you like it put a ring on it" speech, because Mary is not the most likeable but the most realistic female character on the show lol.

Yeah and then there´s Chuck and he tells them that he MADE Sam fall in love with her and we all know it´s bullshit but Eileen has doubts and she has to torture the guy she might thought she´s in love with? But God said different and hey, she´s not a Winchester, she´s not used to shit like this. It´s okay Eileen, we feel you.

THEY KISS. HE´S HOLDING HER PRETTY FACE IN HIS HANDS AND SMACKS HER LIPS AND CLOSES HIS EYES AND SHE DOES TOO AND HE SAYS SOMETHING LIKE "IT´S REAL FOR ME" and then she goes. I cried. Sam cried. I have the kiss as my phone background.

And we´re back at Dean and Sam, fighting Evil, losing the things they love, winning back their own life, the price is a 5 months pause because of a global virus and that´s where I thought:

Fuck all of this. I´ll create an AU in which they won but everyone had to pay something for it but it makes more sense?

So I created the Endverse AU. And I seperated EVERYTHING I hate about the show and tried to make it more..realistic?

But at what point would´ve been realistic that Eileen splits the brothers? Or Cas? In the real world people also exist outside of relationships. We´re so DEEP in Fan Fiction, in which the goal is usually that there IS a relationship, that the focus is not always able to switch, story wise. That makes totally sense but I wanted a project that involves everything I love about Supernatural.

I wanted the drama, but the fun. The character growth and how you change in different sorroundings and circumstances. How people change you, how danger changes you, how family gives you new priorities. It´s not just Dean and Sam anymore.

It´s Dean, Sam, Eileen,Cas, Jack, Baby Robert and New Baby. It´s Jody and her girls and Garth and his family.

And they bicker, fight, nag. They´re humans, not these static figures we saw the last years. They change and that´s a good thing.

I love Sam and Eileen. I love Dean and Cas. But I also love the fandom, which without this world I created NEVER had grown so fast and got so big.

That´s why I´m so sad about shipping wars. It´s not about ships. I love my ships but I love Supernatural, not just these small fragments of it. I love the lore and the people, the stories and the fun, I love the family it created.

War hurts. I don´t want to waste time to bash people on the internet. I want to talk about what I love.

Sorry for this big ass rant :,D

But I really want to make clear that this whole thing is not something I decided easily but that I really put thought into my projects.

[stanfordsweater]

@aftershocked

moving this here because you’ve brought up a TON of points i’d love to dig into and the tumblr reply system is garbage--

(under the cut: much talk of possessive sam vs. possessive dean, benefits of a long-running series, ooc actions vs. consistent characterization)

“they change a lot over 15 seasons but it's consistent enough” i feel like differences and inconsistencies in episodes/writing/seasons are one of the reasons (besides personal preference) that ppl get twisted around when it comes to possessive sam and possessive dean, like it’s easy to focus on one or two things w/o taking larger patterns or predominant characteristics into account.

also it’s easy to focus on like, smth happening a few times that is in contradiction to something that happened many other times, & not want to Deal with the complexities & contradictions—but the complexities are the best part! i’ve seen you talk about it before too, the benefits of a longrunning series where we get to really watch the characters grow from young men to essentially middle-aged,

you get to actually have characters w the kind of multifaceted personalities you’d expect of, like, normal people (just way more fucked up and traumatized). so yeah, dean isn’t always straightforward in the way he’s content with keeping sam with him, and can dip into weird behavior (ESPECIALLY in the sort of parental “i make the decisions around here” sense)—

but his general preference, his base character, does not lean towards possessiveness at all. versus sam, who SEEMS like he’d be more grounded and chill, but is actually the crazy jealous guy. that kind of irony, those kind of subversions, are what make them enjoyable as characters and contribute to why possessive sam is so much fun to explore,

bc you Wouldn’t think he’d be the one who’s jealous enough that even when dean gives sam so much of himself already, sam still wants more. you’d look at him and expect him to be the brother capable of letting go, of being halfway normal, instead of like, sam’s built so much on seeking dean’s approval and lived his life at the center of dean’s universe,

so he’ll reject anything that threatens to change that dynamic. like the contradictions are weird and spicy and i like them a lot and god i love sam’s reactions to benny so much. i’d feel bad bc i really like benny & he deserved better, but it’s too much fun to see how much sam of all people unreasonably, irrationally, illogically hates the guy,

just because he represents someone dean might, might, might possibly actually like more than sam (even though we, the viewers, know that’s impossible). beautiful

--

yes, you’ve hit on so many great points here! firstly, the inconsistencies in characterization: i think it’s very easy to see why people get annoyed by the writing, and i do think it’s occasionally justified; however, i’ve always found it a lot more rewarding to think about it as the same kind of inconsistencies that real people have! sam and dean might make “ooc” decisions and it’s okay because real people do that too, out of anger, resentment, sadness, trauma... it makes sense, to me, that they aren’t the same people they were fifteen years ago. getting stuck in one ‘mode’ of characterization is damaging to an overall reading of the show, but at the same time it’s okay to latch onto one era if that’s what you enjoy. it only bothers me when people take characterization from one era (for example, dean’s ptsd, anger, and jealousy over amelia) and apply it to every version of that character.

dean’s parental sense of possession over sam is one thing i do agree with wrt the possessive dean takes, and i think they’re more memorable for a lot of people because they’re not what you usually see from a family show-- it’s weird for dean to feel that way, and i don’t know if i’ve ever seen that intersection of parental ownership and romantic partner jealousy. it’s important that this comes out when dean is under pressure, not all the time-- AND it’s essential that sam does not cave to this. it gets iffy during dabb era, but i still don’t see sam immediately caving to dean’s demands. a good example is the scene where dean holds a gun to sam in season 15, which i see fairly often as an example of dean demanding obedience from sam... but sam doesn’t cave! and sam doesn’t even flinch, because he’s used to having guns pointed at him, and he knows that no version of dean could ever kill him. dean knows this too, and dean is the one who caves, as per usual. this is only not the case a few times in canon, like season 4, parts of season 7, and season 9, all for different reasons i won’t get into now. it’s remarkable when dean doesn’t go along with what sam asks, which is why it sticks in people’s memories, imo. dean is very loud with what he wants and what he thinks is best, but if sam disagrees he will argue dean around to his point, or he’ll go behind dean’s back to do it anyway (case in point, season 11 with the cage.)

anyway-- “the complexities are the best part!” and “you get to actually have characters w the kind of multifaceted personalities you’d expect of, like, normal people (just way more fucked up and traumatized). so yeah, dean isn’t always straightforward...” TOTALLY AGREE. i love the times when the brothers are making decisions that fandom disagrees with, because it’s interesting. the show is here to provide a compelling story. i’m not going to lie and say i always agree with that story or those choices, but it’s fun for me to try to get into why a character would make that decision, not just rail against it. i like the dudes we have in canon! they’re fun!

this is why possessive sam slaps for me. what you said here-- “sam, who SEEMS like he’d be more grounded and chill, but is actually the crazy jealous guy. that kind of irony, those kind of subversions, are what make them enjoyable as characters and contribute to why possessive sam is so much fun to explore” yes yes yes. 100%. and we see these subversions right from season one! it’s not new that dean isn’t actually the uber-confident womanizing asshole, but if you aren’t paying attention it can sneak up on you, i guess? and sam, who comes across as the level-headed one in common archetypes, the soft-spoken college boy, crashes the impala into a building. in the first episode. and in route 666, he  follows a crazy instinct that is proven correct and saves their lives (because he’s intelligent!) but toys with the chance that it could have failed and killed dean (because he’s reckless!)

the fact that we have all these examples of the ways the brothers fail to fulfill the tropes they would in a less-interesting tv show means that possessive sam makes so much sense. sam is built up as the independent brother, the one who left home, the rebellious one, but he loves his family and he needs dean. he needs him. “sam’s built so much on seeking dean’s approval and lived his life at the center of dean’s universe...” i love the way you put this. sam has had dean’s attention and protection for most of his life, and hell if he’s giving it up now for some two-bit vampire, lol. sam is independent, but like with everything else, dean is the exception. sam’s desperation for dean’s approval and attention is absolutely hilarious in the benny situation, because, like you’ve said before, benny is the least-threatening dude ever. he’s so nice. and the fact that sam won’t rest until he dies is-- well, i’m being a little uncharitable, i don’t think sam wanted benny to die, but he sure didn’t shed any tears over it.

the contradictions are delicious. i do think some of it is that dean gets his friendships fulfilled outside of sam, so sam is in a category all his own, while sam doesn’t have as many relationships as dean does so dean is fills all of his categories. but then again, that isn’t always true. it shifts over the seasons and even through episodes. broad trends!

[supernatural-reacts]

Season 8 episode 9

- BENNY!

- “you got designs?” “Nah. She’s more like a little sister to me you know?” 😂Sir he has a boyfriend

- SAM STOP TRYING TO KILL BENNY

- “how can you be sure it was Benny if you didn’t actually see him do it?” YES DEAN DEFEND HIM

- not them paralleling Dean and Benny to Sam and Amelia AGAIN!!

- let’s play the Girls On Supernatural Game: will Elizabeth be dead, evil, or both by the end of the episode?

- Benny what are you doing you’re gonna get yourself killed

- “I know it’s hard to believe but I haven’t always been this cute and cuddly” literal flirting

- wait does Benny know that Cas is back bc 👀

- that awkward moment when you hit on your boyfriend’s great granddaughter 😭

- omfg stop trying to kill Benny

- “every relationship I’ve ever had has gone to crap at some point but one thing about Benny.. he has never let me down.” RELATIONSHIP

- “you’re willing to risk that on Benny’s word alone?” “Damn right I am.” THEY ARE BOYFRIENDS YOUR HONOUR

- oh great we get to meet Amelia’s no-longer-dead husband

- “the only one who knows what’s best for Amelia is Amelia” YES!! Okay I kinda like this guy!

- I love Dean and Benny’s interactions they’re so entertaining

- BENNY LEAVE DO NOT DRINK DEAN JUST LEAVE

- “guys like us we don’t get a home. We don’t get family.” 😭

- Sam you have to let her decide

- “thanks for not giving up on me brother” “don’t give me a reason to”

SOFT!!

- STOP. TRYING. TO KILL. BENNY.

- god I hate Martin

- BENNY NO DONT

- Sam what the fuck are you doing

- if Benny is dead I stg

- poor Elizabeth

- oh shit man

- DEAN THAT IS LOW

- SAM LISTEN TO DEAN OMG

- why is Amelia here?

[spneveryseason]

Okaaayy thank u!! I’ve been wanting to talk about this with someone 😁 I’ll tell you my opinions, please let me know if you think I’m too off or w/e. Sorry this is so long!

First, about Amelia and the "gap year": I thought Sam’s reaction to s7 finale was just bad writing, but now I think it’s interesting that he flipped out and drove until he ran over a dog and had an emotional breakdown over it. I’m sure Sam is no stranger to roadkill, so his reaction kinda struck me... But I really like the theme of Ame and Sam licking each other’s wounds, and Riot the dog being a symbol of that attempt at taking responsibility for a stray after you run them over emotionally, but... the thing is… the thing that ran Ame and Sam over were not each other; but the sudden loss of their companions…

I also like/think it’s very sad that Sam is so sober and honest about that relationship; he meets Don and he immediately accepts things are over, like deep down he always knew it was temporary. The first time Sam ran from his family he planned it, ended up in a trailer with Bones and some pizza, second time he planned it, went to Stanford on full scholarship; this time he just got the car and drove and didn’t try very hard… I was a little shocked that the writers apparently forgot about Riot the dog, we have no idea what happened to that Good Boy so far, but I also think that’s so symbolic of what Sam went through. None of it was real. S7 finale was not a reset and not an ending, there was no closure at all, Sam was never going to live in a house with a partner and a dog, and it just seems like he knew it. That’s why I also really liked/was devastated by that scene where he sleeps with Amelia again and she’s like “talk to me” and he’s just brooding n says “do you want me to say it was great? A mistake?”, bc he’s already Gone. He knows he’s either gonna hit the road or go back to Dean, but actually cutting ties and building a life with Amelia is impossible. Riot disappears lmao! I HC that Ame gave him away too tbh. I love that her father calls Sam a Fixer Upper, implying he’s trying to fix Ame up, and then a couple hours later he’s like, Amelia he’s a mess!! 

Second: This is a Sam blog, but some thoughts on Dean: I’m thinking about how hard he runs away from having to apologize for anything he does ever; he blames Sam and throws a lot of crap on him for going blip while he was in Purgatory, and Sam just takes it? When they make up Dean says, “okay, I understand now that you weren’t just partying, I understand Amelia meant something to you” and it’s like dgvbhdsnjsd Dean that’s not the issue… Sam had a clean breakup and closure with Amelia, he’s not mourning the relationship he had with her, he’s mourning YOUR relationship with his falling 2 pieces because you keep lying and guilt-tripping and manipulating him… But IMO Dean knows, that’s why he “breaks up” with Benny. I think deep down it’s just an emotionally comfortable space to keep the relationship in terms of “I invalidate you so you strive harder for me and then I validate you as a reward” - I don’t mean this in a malicious way, Dean has as many self-worth issues as Sam has, which I think is why he’s desperate to call the shots on who’s family, who’s ok to mourn(, who rides SHOTGUN IN THE IMPALA lmao that episode with the looney tunes was so much)… Like, I think so far this has been the most 100% resigned I’ve ever seen Sam act towards being the Winchester he’s supposed to be (which is also why that episode with Henry Winchester screaming LEGACY at them tickled me a little, but in a bad way), and Dean keeps acting SUPER offended nonetheless... IMO it’s consistent with Dean feeling more in control when he can dangle the carrot stick of validating Sam in front of him… Because he’s really that desperate. I don’t think he seriously ever considered leaving Sam behind either. Even when he’s possessed by the angry specter, he’s more concerned about calling Sam out. He doesn’t say “I’m angry because I have to stick with you”, he says “I’m angry because you let me down” (as he perceives it)

IMO, that gets dealt with in the first trial episode when Dean is like “aaah my dream is me dying so you get the american dream life” was heartwarming, but also a little 😬😬 bc it really drove home to me that Dean knows his validation matters. Sam is a 30yo 6.4ft man and Dean gives him his blessing to be a Normie and not die heroically with him. But Sam NEVER asked Dean to sacrifice himself, this is a pattern that keeps repeating since early seasons. Sam wants a brother, not a sacrifice. Sam doesn’t (usually) want to be either at Dean’s pedestal or in Dean’s trashcan lmao. Dean has a hard time grasping that, I think because he doesn't want to grasp it, cause then he loses emotional leverage (and also he grew up living like that with John, I think). But that’s why the ending of that episode was soooo great when Sam is like “I see a light at the end of the tunnel, please let me show you!” Sounds like he really wants Dean BY HIS SIDE, on the same level.

I know some spoilers, like the trials are fake and heaven gets Wrecked at the end, but I’m still curious to see how this will develop! And I think rewatching 15.20* after this will be interesting, too, because I thiiink it’s a mirror of this situation (Dean sacrifices himself so Sam can have a life) but instead of dictating to Sam what’s going to happen, he asks SAM to validate him, to tell him it’s okay. Ooohh my god I hate those brothers 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 Stupid Winchestersss 😭😭

* though this definitely convinced me I have to watch all the seasons I skipped, so it will take a while to get there hahaha sob

[archivistsammy]

so, im going to try and keep my unkind s8 comments to a minimum, but I can no longer pretend dean gives me any joy thus far in this season, and I think this scene is really emblematic of why. context: sam has his deal with Amelia to meet back at the motel at a certain time if they want to be together. dean reminds sam he has an appointment, and sam--who has received nothing but shit from dean this whole time about Amelia, and in the previous episode dean actually used sam’s love for Amelia against him to get him away from benny--is like...since when do you care? and I kinda hate dean’s answer. a lot. 

for one, I think it’s backhanded. yeah, he’s saying one of them should be happy, but it’s hardly an earnest endorsement. “im tired of fighting, one of us should be happy, and im jealous about your ability to just ~give up hunting~ really couldn’t be me....” is hardly the same thing as actually sincerely wanting your brother to be happy. pretty petty imo, which I think dean is allowed to an extent, but this entire season has just been the pair of them failing to communicate and then dean being nasty (to literally everyone except charlie so far; im shocked at the way he’s been talking to kevin) on top of it. dean’s lost so much joy, so much empathy, after purgatory, and it’s exhausting and demoralizing to see. 

not to mention, as Katharine so smartly and rightly pointed out, this is very similar to how John tries to dismiss a serious conversation with sam back in season 2. 

I think this is notable bc it’s showcasing sort of that this way of handling conflict--brushing it off for the sake of getting down to brass tacks--is a learned behavior. how many arguments, how many conflicts, how many emotionally challenging conversations, have these two brothers been in wherein one of them simply ends it by saying they’re tired of fighting? this isn’t conflict resolution. this isn’t forgiveness. this isn’t healing. it’s just shoving it down to fester at some later date. 

I also think what dean says at the end here is really frustrating and upsetting and indicative of another huge problem both he and sam have. 

dean is still clearly holding onto issues that stem from his time with Lisa and how that living situation ended, and it’s almost like he thinks because he couldn’t make apple pie work, sam shouldn’t be able to either. like sam should function under the same set of rules dean set for himself. no hunting. no car. no relationships with anyone in your past life. you go for it, and you do it 100%. which puts sam in a pretty terrible situation of choosing Amelia or dean. why these brothers think relationships outside of hunting must mean excising what you had before is bewildering to me. dean excised things perfectly well and still had djinn coming for him. that’s not to blame dean, but point out shit’s gonna happen regardless of your efforts to divorce yourself from your previous life. not to mention, the mental and emotional toll it took on dean to cut out everything he had before Lisa...why wish that on sam?

the obvious reason is because he’s still hurt by sam’s not looking for him after he disappeared. but honestly, that’s...not sam’s problem if you never actually talk through your feelings with him. sam can know he hurt you and still know why he made the decision he made. and much like I discussed in these two posts, the fact these two refuse to talk openly about their lost year means they’re never going to move past it. they’re just going to have to decide to shove it back down. and I think we see that really clear here. dean (to me) is basically telling sam you go get the woman you love and leave me out, and we just never talk about this shit again. or you stay with me and leave the woman you love out, and we still....never talk about this shit again. 

idk, im not being very coherent, but this scene just seems like the intersection of their problems with both communication and how they envision happiness as something you cannot have with or without the other. they aren’t happy together this season. the first eight eps or so are filled with barely masked bitterness and rage and hurt. but clearly they can’t be happy apart, because being apart means literally never talking again. I don’t know! it’s just upsetting! depressing! frustrating! and that’s season 8!

[hurlumerlu]

spn (you brought this on yourself)

akljghf I really did X) okay let’s see how many times I can type “Dean” in a tumblr post.

the first character I ever fell in love with : Dean ! it helped that when i watch spn the first time it was in vo without subtitles, when my english was still pretty shaky, so many of his more, uh, unsavory comments flew right by me - but i would have loved him anyway.

a character I used to love/like but now do not : idk... the only one can think of is girl-of-the-week Sarah from the episode Provenance. I used to like that she was really involved in the case and rather efficient and brave despite being totally out of her element, but rewatching that episode I got the feeling that she was allowed to be all those things in part because she’s richer/more educated/classier than most characters and it rubbed me the wrong way. And she was extremely gracious about it, which annoyed me more. That is a LOT of words for a little side character I don’t feel strongly about, but this episode has some weird class vibes (more than usual), so. there you go ?

a ship that I used to love/like but now I don’t : well... Sam/Sarah i guess ? Also I was pretty into Anna/Ruby and now I’m not but once I get back to season 4 I will probably be into it again so I’m not sure that counts.

my ultimate favorite character ™ : Dean. It’s weird because I had almost forgotten how much I loved him and suddendly it all came back and I don’t know what to do with those feelings !

prettiest character : it’s a tie between very early season 1 Dean and Ruby 2.0. No actually Ruby 2.0 could stab me with the demon knife and I’be like. thank you ma’am I was not worthy so. she wins.

my most hated character : you know who :) it’s john :) (but also Zachariah was very fun to hate)

my OTP : Destiel obviously.

my NOTP : I get wanting to explore dark dynamics, especially given the nature of the show, but wincest is really not for me.

favourite episode : ugh. I can’t chose. I can’t even chose my favourite episode per season ! I’ll say The Man Who Would be King but I feel like I’m betraying so many others :((

saddest death : Sam’s first death. It’s super bleak, and sends the brothers careening into this cycle of self-sacrifices, and Dean monologuing to Sam’s body gets me every time. (Dean’s last death should have been the saddest, but it was sad in a way that made me think “yeah I was right not to bother”, so it doesn’t deserves the title).

favorite season : season 2-3 feels kinda like one season to me, though if i have to chose i will chose season 2. Of course the fact that it doesn’t have Cas is a bummer but even just knowing that he’ll be along later makes it better so :D

least favorite season : season 8. it was just so obvious that Carver hadn’t even bothered to watch season 6 and 7, and the conflict between Sam and Dean felt so boring, and the Amelia sublot was so boring, and the whole Dean remember purgatory wrong felt both super predictable and out of left field. It burned me out so much that I couldn’t really get into season 9 and gave up. But it gave us scruffy Cas and Benny, so there’s that.

character that everyone else in the fandom loves, but I hate : the fandom is so big and rarely agrees on anything anyway, I have no idea how I would answer that. Jess I guess ? I don’t even hate her, but she’s barely a character at all.

my “you’re a piece of trash but you’re still a fave” fave : Dean, I guess ? I wouldn’t call him a piece of trash but he has a lot to answer for. Like. A LOT. (though he’s also perfect in every way).

my “beautifull cinamon roll who deserves better than this” fave : so many, but Anna, Charlie and Kevin are kings and queens among them... also I wouldn’t call them cinamon rolls but Victor Henriksen and Bella Talbot deserved so much more screentime. And of course Sam, Dean and Cas (I haven’t met Jack yet) deserved a better ending, but... well.

my “this ship is wrong, nasty and makes me want to cleanse my soul but I still love it” ship : Alastair/Dean. Yeah, I know.

my “they’re kinda cute, and I lowkey ship them, but I’m not too invested” ship : Dean/Ash, Bobby/Rufus... also Sam/Ruby but I don’t think “cute” is the word.

Ahem. This got long. Sorry !

[mrsmess]

Faves and fails of SPN (season 8)

Best episodes (in chronological order):

8:4 Bitten - First good episode and the brothers are barely in it. Probably a testament to how i feel about them and the show this early in season 8

8:8 Hunteri heroici - Finally a silly episode, it almost makes the list just because of that. Cartoons. ”I’ll interrogate the cat.” Best job in the world. Cass’s finest moments.

8:9 Citizen fang - A better Benny than when we first meet him. But sooooooo many frustrating moments. The level of hypocrisy from like everyone involved is crazy. ”Winchesters, man.” Turns out Ellen had a point about them.

8:11 LARP and the real girl - Another great silly episode and they are sorely needed this season. Charlie and Dean are adorable.

8:13 Everybody Hates Hitler - Home of the men of letters is introduced, thank goodness. Nothing makes me feel quite so at ease as this place. And a great episode. With retro villans to match the setting. Adam Rose does such a great job. And John DeSantis.

8:14 Trial and error - Surprisingly good episode owed to the side characters (Danay Garcia is h.o.t).

8:17 Goodbye stranger - There’s something about this episode. Oh, it’s probably the horrifying intro as well as the betrayal set to the sound of Supertramp, or, y’know it could be MEG and my huge crush on her. Sam confiding in Meg (bit of a pattern). MEGSTIEL. Omg. What I would give to have that convo be out of Naomi’s influence. I can’t handle Cass this season, I know it’s not his fault but... Dean begging. Gosh. *sigh* Fine. Destiel. But Meeeeeeeg! No! :(

8:18 Freaks and geeks - Goooooood episode. The clash of ideas surrounding hunting, the ambivalence the brothers feel about being forced into the life so early vs the inevidability of it for the kids, the option of letting go. The horror of what these guys are doing. Also the idea of a hunter dream team is kind of cool.

8:19 Taxi Driver - Bobby! Nuff said. Also Benny goes out with a bang.

8:20 Pac-Man Fever - Charlie! Dream-setting! What is happening? I don’t care, it’s awesome! And Manny Jacinto! Already typecasted as an idiot. ”Don’t quote me to me!” And ”I hate that thing... I want one.” And them saying goodbye. ”I love you.” ”I know.” Hugs all around. Cuddles is off the charts! Love it. I feel like one of the reason this show works for as long as it does is because of the brothers. A bit obvious, I know, but it’s why I forgive it for tons of shit, and it’s why nothing works w/o them, when they have issues w each other nothing feels right.

Worst episodes (in chronological order):

8:5 Blood Brother - Look, it’s not that I dislike Benny, but I kinda do, especially based off this episode; he’s seeking revenge based on the assumption that his sire killed his woman. Then he finds her alive (sort of) but prefers her fridged. Fuck you man.

8:7 A little slice of Kevin - First: I don’t care much for Kevin, his importance to the story is unearned. The show is lucky they keep Mrs Tran on as long as they do. Also the torture scenes of Alfie and Kevin make me sick, no love for Crowley this season.

8:10 Torn and frayed - More torture porn. Fucking hate that shit. And the torture of having to watch Amelia and Sam faking that they’re important to each other. Ugh. At least Dean and Cass try to save Alfie. But like generally; my issue w the first half of this season is I got no one to really root for. Everybody is just so unepic.

8:15 Man’s best friends with benefits - I don’t know about this. I’m intrigued by this world, but I sort of feel like this is one of those in show-pilots, and... i don’t know. Plus y’know friction between the brothers, not here for it. Ultimately I don’t care about this.

Honorable mentions:

The use of Soundgarden in Southern comfort, Soundgarden is always a win.

Dean trying to take care of Sam when he’s undergoing the trials. More of that shit plz!

Castiel’s Biggerson’s scheme- brilliance! ”There are just so many Biggerson’s.”

Also Crowley’s elaborate Truman-scenario w Kevin.

I feel like this season is kinda the boys going proactive; they’re instigators. I like it.

Dean checking out the goth chick in As time goes by - gold star!

Dishonorable mentions:

Sam’s been done one dirty: it is ooc for him to not go after at least Kevin after season 7’s finale.

And the lack of thought, time and emotion put into his so-called love story is frigging embarrassing. Dean gets a real, believable love story and Sam gets this out of a bottle soapy bullshit? Sad backstory equals character depth right? It’s one of the worst written ”romantic” storylines I’ve ever witnessed, it’s like the writers just took every romance trope they could find regardless of subgenre (Yeah- romcoms, romantic tragedies, contemporary angst, erotica - they’re not all the same, idjits) and threw them in the blender together. What’s better than one meet cute? Two meet cutes! Nothing says romance like an endless string of unconnected obstacles, right? *deep sigh* Listen, I *wish* SPN had more love stories in it, it needs it, and the fact that it doesn’t have ’em is why the show will never rly be a true contender for me; But not like this, i don’t want ~romantic~ as some sort of appendix, but as *real* sub plots or main plots even, like in Buffy. #willdiemadaboutit

+The use of bronzer this season is out of hand.

Summing up:

Structure this season is a bit chaotic.

The season gets good about halfway through. There are several things the matter w the first half. Sam’s ooc behavior and the fact that we’ve had almost no time w Kevin but the stakes forced onto him are so high. The second half makes up for it introducing The Men of Letters HQ, heartbreak, folly, love and friendship that feels real.

There is something that irks me about the ending too though: something about Dean’s gaze, his temporal blindness: when he is angry with Cass (which he has a complete right to be btw) but refuses to deal w his anger, claiming he can only trust Sam, leaving Cass behind to try to win his affections back thus making him vulnerable to Metatron’s meddling. And Sam points this behavior out in the season’s finale ”What happens the next time I let you down?”. There is a judgy quality to Dean which can make or break the other characters and it’s a quality he should try to take more responsibility for. That aside: the finale is very strong, one of my favorite ones actually, for the sheer emotion of it.

[silenthillmutual]

okay so i’m glad season 8 of Supernatural has been like “Dean is finally treating Castiel like a living being with emotions and a life of his own!” but i have some AU ideas that could have made parts of it better:

either get rid of Amelia altogether, or introduce her as an in-real-time person with important parts in the plot a la Lisa, instead of just bro-fight angst fodder

or, at the very least, segues into Sam reminiscing about their relationship aren’t things like “staring at an old man with dementia 

there being any attempt at all whatsoever of keeping Sam in-character like maybe:

asking Dean about his trauma related to Purgatory, even knowing that Dean doesn’t want to talk about it at the time but that he will eventually

not fucking abandoning Kevin and Meg when Sam, who had always been overly empathetic to everyone and everything, would not have left Kevin or even Meg to just be left to Crowley’s whims, what the fuck????

showing more care and concern about Castiel’s obvious breakdown. like instead of making everything about Amelia, who he had next to no chemistry with (which is due to shitty writing imo), he could have said that he was staying with Dean because Cas is his friend too and even though Castiel obviously has a more intense bond with Dean that doesn’t mean that Sam’s not concerned about What The Fuck Just Happened

not suddenly becoming a vampire racist? that was NEVER a part of Sam’s characterization! there’s no reason for him to hate Benny with no knowledge of who he is or what he’s like. Sam was the one even trying to keep Dean from indiscriminately killing vampires in season 2 or 3, warning Dean that Gordon was bad news

or at the very least, we could have Sam comparing Dean’s defense of Benny to his defense of Ruby way back in seasons 3 & 4 instead of going behind Dean’s back and shit

either give us polyamorous Sam (AU maybe where the text calling for help was actually from Amelia and Don texts them both telling Sam that he’s got it, he knows that Sam is busy w his brother) or when there’s the dramatic moment when he turns around at the bar after hightailing it to Texas, it’s not Amelia who’s there to say “i knew it was you”.....it’s Don [GIVE! SAM! A! BOYFRIEND!]

polyamorous Dean/Cas/Benny. i would love to have seen Cas & Benny interacting outside of purgatory. so like maybe instead of grabbing Sam when Cas knew that Dean & Sam weren’t getting along, he thinks “well we need more people for this fight and i do know someone else who i assume is still alive” and tells Benny he can eat the demons or something. i don’t know. 

actually calling what Dean & Cas are going through trauma / PTSD. i know neurotypicals have this weird idea that you have to have been through war to experience PTSD but that’s absolute bullshit, the least they can do is acknowledge that what Dean & Cas have is trauma. i think they portray reactions to trauma so well but it would really just be excellent if they called it by name and examined it more. 

[mittensmorgul]

8.09, Citizen Fang.

Owwww.

Here we are at the “consequences of not really doing what Garth advised in 8.06 and actually listening to each other.”

So Sam, Mr. “I have been upfront with you this whole time and you’ve done nothing but lie and keep secrets”, has been keeping a pretty big secret from Dean. He put Mostly Okay Martin on Benny surveillance detail. And HOOOBOY. For some reason, after having worked with Martin literally ONCE in his adult life, while Martin was voluntarily committed to an insane asylum because he cracked from the stress of hunting, for some reason Sam thought HE was more trustworthy than Dean.

Nice.

DEAN: [pause] You put "mostly okay" Martin on Benny? What is "mostly okay" doing hunting at all? SAM: Not hunting, Dean – tracking. Observe and report only. I was crystal clear about that. DEAN: Wow. I can't believe that. SAM: Really, Dean? You don't believe that? Because Benny's a vampire. And any hunter worth his salt isn't gonna let one just walk around freely. So I had Martin keep tabs on him. And right now, it's looking like I made the right call. DEAN: So Martin's saying Benny did this? SAM: Yeah. DEAN: [pause] Okay. SAM: Okay? DEAN: If Benny's in Louisiana draining folks... we should look into it.

And Dean’s ready to do what’s necessary, *IF* it’s actually Benny. 

Sam absolutely did not make the right call here, because it wasn’t actually Benny. But he wouldn’t believe Dean. He tried, he gave him a little leeway to investigate, but Sam refused to keep believing after a certain point. He chose to believe Martin, instead, despite not really trusting the guy to be hunting.

MARTIN: You're joking, right? We're doing this as soon as he pulls away. SAM: No, we're not, Martin. We're gonna give him a little bit of time. MARTIN: Hey, it's your brother. It's your call. How long are you gonna let him go on like this? It's staring him right in the face. SAM: [exhales sharply] Well, sometimes it's not easy to see things for what they are.

GAH. I hate this about Sam. He roots himself so deeply in his own beliefs (like back in s7 about Dean believing they were being haunted by Bobby but Sam dismissed it over and over until Bobby managed to materialize for them and proved Dean had been right all along, or like making Dean promise to go to Lisa because Dean had always wanted a normal life, or like believing Dean was “weak” all through s4). And it’s rearing its ugly head again here, and again, Sam spends this episode refusing to listen. While Dean goes out and deals with Objective Reality, finding the ACTUAL vampire doing the killing, and takes care of it WITH Benny. I mean... Benny is literally the one who kills the vampire responsible for the deaths, saving Dean’s life (again!) in the process. But Sam absolutely refuses to even HEAR the truth.

Because in order to keep Sam from going after the WRONG vampire, Dean resorts to a dirty trick, faking a text from Amelia that has Sam literally dropping everything (including Mostly Okay Martin) and driving off to Texas.

Now think, Sam was paired with Martin throughout this episode, who literally DIES because of his single-minded insistence that Benny should die, that no vampire is innocent. And he’s just... awful... 

BENNY: Oh, please. The half-wit who found me at the café? I'll take my chances with him. DEAN: That half-wit was sent by my brother, and trust me – my brother's not someone you want to mess with. BENNY: I don't have time to worry about them, Dean. I didn't think Desmond had an ounce of steel in his spine, but I was wrong about that. So now I'm gonna do what I should have done two days ago, which is put him back where he belongs. DEAN: You know there's only one way to do that, right? And that is for you to sit on the sideline while I convince Sam and Martin to go after Desmond. They see you out there, they don't care if you're gonna be collecting for the March of Dimes. They are gonna slice first and ask questions later. You know that. BENNY: You really think they'll go for that?

Spoiler alert: They did not go for that.

Mostly, Martin didn’t, revealing even more about himself (and disturbingly, his knowledge of John):

MARTIN: Glad your dad wasn't around to hear that. He'd have a mind to take you both out the woodshed and show you what's what. Half inclined to do it myself. SAM pushes MARTIN against a wall. SAM: You listen to me. I brought you into this. I can bring you out just as easy. So the only thing you're gonna be inclined to do is shut up and follow my lead.

YiKES.

But of course even after Sam gets the false call for help and runs off in fear for Amelia’s safety, he abandons Martin on the roadside, now suddenly unleashed to “take care of things” the way he believes they should’ve been. Dean tells him the vampire is dead, it was not Benny, and to walk away. But instead of that, he forces Benny back by taking Elizabeth hostage and threatening to kill her (A COMPLETE INNOCENT HUMAN) if Benny doesn’t come back. Not only did Martin want to kill Benny, he wanted to torture him AND Elizabeth with the fact that he was a vampire. And just... *ewwww*.

So... Benny kills Martin, and Elizabeth tells Dean exactly what happened. Sam refuses to hear the truth, because GAH. Sam had set Mostly Okay Martin on surveillance duty on Benny, and Dean had programmed Amelia’s number into a burner phone. They both lied to each other, both tried to manipulate each other through the people they attached themselves to during the Purgatory Year. Except Sam’s was always founded on a lie. He never told Amelia the truth, so she was always a self-deception, an “escapist fantasy” that he addressed in 8.08, and yet... because of who he is, and how he thinks, he cannot grasp that Dean’s association with Benny was founded on absolute truth between them. Remember that whole conversation about trusting people when they first met in Purgatory? The only reason Dean trusts him NOW is because BENNY REALLY NEVER BROKE HIS TRUST. PERIOD. Their entire friendship is founded on that fact. And Sam can’t even conceptualize that sort of trust, because he’d spent the entire past year actively running away from it.

And believing Dean, believing Benny now after Martin died for his lack of trust, would mean Sam would have to accept that all of this was his fault. So he runs away from it. Again.

[canonicallysoulmates]

hey! i love reading your opinions on episodes because you're really clear and coherent and i tend to agree with you about a lot of characters and stuff. but i haven't really watched the show since 8x01 because i got too mad at how the writers treated sam (yk, about him not looking for dean in purgatory etc). i've kept up with what happened in the show but now i kinda feel like really catching up. what episodes are must watch in your opinion? you don't have to answer if it's too much to ask :)

Usually, I find my episode opinions to be a mess so saying you find them clear and coherent is such a compliment to me, thank you!  I put a lot of work into them so that makes me happy ❤️

I completely understand about s8, that season almost got me to stop watching too, though I will be honest and say the 2nd half was much better than the 1st.

I’m sorry this took me so long to answer but I wanted to give you something through and it’s a lot of episodes to go through; I wasn’t sure if you wanted my must watch in terms of enjoyability or if you’re looking for something more plot centered so listed below is a mix between episodes I find most watch due to how entertaining they are and how much I love them, and episodes that I find most watch in terms of you want to have a general idea of the main plot of the season, something important was introduced or something new was learned about Sam and Dean, those types of episodes will be marked with an asterisk. 

All the episodes listed were because I feel like they had something extra to offer, this is in no way a list of all the episodes of those seasons I like. 

Season 8:

Episode 11, LARP and the Real Girl: While this is a good, fun, episode in general,  the main reason I’m including it, in this case, is that this is, in my opinion, the turning point in s8. This is when the bs unnecessary drama stops and Sam and Dean start to come back together as a team. So if you wanna see that I recommend it if you wanna see them choose each other over Benny and Amelia that happens in the episode previous to this one, episode #10 ‘Torn and Frayed’, but for me, this is the one where the shift really happens. If that shift doesn’t interest you feel free to skip like I said it’s included because of the shift in the brother’s relationship. 

Episode 12, As Time Goes By*:  Big things happen in this episode, we get to learn a little bit about the Winchester side of the family tree, meet grandaddy Winchester, the Men of Letters are introduced they play a big part in Sam and Dean’s story, the Bunker is mentioned for the 1st time. Definitely, a must watch in terms of overall story. 

Episode 13, Everybody Hates Hitler*: This is another episode that’s a must watch in terms of story, this episode introduces us to the Bunker where the boys live. But other than that it is a skippable episode.

Episode 14, Trial and Error*: I swear I’m not recommending the whole 2nd half of s8 it’s just that there were a lot of storyline heavy episodes in a row. This is when the main plot of s8, the Trials, come into play. 

Episode 21, The Great Escapist*: This is only a must watch if you’re interested in the plot, a character that plays a big part at the end of this season and the main of s9 is introduced in this episode. This is on this list purely due to that fact. 

Episode 23, Sacrifice: If you watch only one recommended episode from s8, make it this one. It’s one of my favorite episodes, it gave us the amazing Sam and Dean church scene, it gave us “Don’t you dare think that there is anything, past or present, that I would put in front of you!”, it’s just a  fantastic episode. 

Season 9:

(While I liked season 9 more than season 8, for me, there really aren’t any must-watch episodes that have nothing to do with the plot.) 

Episode 7, Bad Boys*: We learn about an important part of Dean’s past.

Episode 11, First Born*: The Mark of Cain which plays a big part in this season and is the main plot of s10 is introduced. 

Episode 16, Blade Runners*: Important weapon, the First Blade, is introduced.

Episode 17, Mother’s Little Helper*: We learn more a bit more about the MoL and grandaddy Winchester.

Season 10:

Episodes 1-3, Black, Reichenbach & Soul Survivor: I very much enjoyed demon!Dean as well as Sam desperately looking for Dean which is why these three episodes are on this list as sadly demon!Dean only existed for this short period.

Episode 18, Book of the Damned: This is one of my favorite episodes of s10 cause I’m a slut for Sam being desperate to save Dean and doing whatever it takes even if it means going behind his back to find a cure. And it gave us this beauty, “But I can’t do it without my brother. I don’t want to do it without my brother. And if he’s gone, then I don’t…”

Episode 23, Brother’s Keeper*: Dean killed Death for Sam. Also, important for understanding the main plot in s11.

Season 11:

Episode 2, Form and Void: For me, this is a must watch solely on the fact that Sam is a complete badass and genius who finds a cure for a brand new disease, and cures/saves himself and others. 

Episode 4,  Baby: Move over Sam and Dean, it is this show’s leading lady time to shine! This is honestly one of the best episodes of s11 and in the series as a whole, it’s entertaining, it’s fun, it’s creative, it’s an hour of Sam and Dean from Baby’s POV and it is glorious, definitely an episode one can watch multiple times and never tire of.

Episode 8, Just My Imagination*: It’s a fun episode where we get to learn more about Sam’s childhood.

Episode 10 The Devil in the Details*: Plot-based recommendation. Something happens at the end that has carried over all the way to s14. 

Episode 16, Safe House: Fun, enjoyable episode that gives us a glimpse of how Rufus and Bobby hunted together. 

Episode 17, Red Meat: If you watch nothing else from s11, watch this episode. It is heartbreaking, it is amazing, it is fantastic. Make sure you have tissues handy because you will bawl your eyes out. 

Episode 20, Don’t Call Me Shurley: One of my favorite episodes of the season, I find it a beautiful episode in both the writing and the direction, it’s the return of the Samulet, great Sam and Dean scenes, I love the song at the end. It’s just a really fantastic episode. 

Season 12:

Episode 11, Regarding Dean: My favorite episode from this season, it made me laugh it made me cry. It has great brother scenes, it has great Rowena scenes, it’s an episode so excellent that I even recommend it to people who don’t watch this show.

The end of Episode 18, The Memory Remains: I know this is supposed to be a must-watch episode list but the only part of this episode I consider must watch happens in the last 5-minutes and Sam and Dean carving their names on the table is definitely must-watch.

Season 13:

Episode 16, Scoobynatural: It’s my two favorite characters, Sam and Dean, in my favorite cartoon. It’s a grownup episode of Scooby-Doo! It’s so much fun! Like just thinking about it makes me wanna go re-watch it. 

Season 14:

Episode 4, Mint Condition: Sam and Dean hunting things, saving people. The Family Business. Enough said, grab some snacks and curl up to watch this episode that will make you fall in love with this show again.

Episode 12, Prophet and Loss: Also known as the one where BuckLemming drowned us in feelings and shocked us by writing something not just good but fucking amazing! Honestly, I will be thinking about that ending scene for the rest of my life. 

Episode 13, Lebanon: Episode worthy of being the 300th. Absolutely beautiful, focused on the heart of the show, definitely a must-watch for any fan.

And with that we reach the end of the list, I know s12 forward there aren’t any plot based episode must-watches, I apologize for that but I feel like the plots are pretty easy to follow s12 forward with just watching the first and final episodes of the season. 

I really hope this is what you were looking for in some way, shape or form. And if you decide to watch any of the episodes on this list, I hope you like them! 

[theythemsam]

spn 8x09, liveblog, collected posts (all 12 of them) or as i like to call it: This show and its double standard will kill me

What the fuck is up with that creepy old dude wanting to hit on that young bartender girl?

#also the way he just assumes Benny is with her #like Benny would be too old for her (even if he wasn’t a vampire) but hes waaaaay too old Yikes.

Dean *shoot first, ask questions later*: defends Benny despite mounting evidence against him, but is ready to kill other monsters (even if they are pretty much shown as innocent)

#Yiketh #if they’d at least let that be an ongoing development that would be sexy #but benny is like his only exception

 But I loooove Sam trusting Dean and giving him the chance to prove Benny’s innocence, like Sam is so much a better person than Dean

#also seen in the scene where Sam refuses to lock Dean into the panic room when Dean didn’t hesitate #Sam is the better Winchester here

 Dean still doesn’t get his pie asdfg, poor dude

 Martin is such an asshole!

#most hunters are bastards

 Dean tricking Sam into going to Amelia is such a dick move!

#@ Dean Winchester: your kneecaps are mine

 I feel so sorry for Benny though. He deserves better.

 GOD, Dean is such a bastard! Sam is already so afraid that everyone he gets close to will get hurt and Dean just uses that against him.

 Also its kinda creepy that the first thing Amelia says about Don is “He found you at the bar. He threatened you.” Like what kind of creep is Don that she thinks this is the first thing he did? Also Amelia has no good men in her life besides Sam, like… honey are you okay?

#her dads a weirdly possessive dude I don’t like it #and Don also doesn’t sound too sweet #she also just took in the weird serial killer drifter after not knowing him for that long #so you know it doesn’t seem as if she has the best self-preservation skills

 Martin is such a piece of shit!

#but lmao theres so many hunters that are just so creepy #i don’t like most of them

 I kinda like that (the actor of Benny, Ty something?) plays two good vampires on just this show

#type casting #also I like him

 Dean just fucking changed a number in Sam’s phone in case he had to mislead and lie to his brother, what a great guy!

#i hate him I hate this man so much!!! #also still hate the narrative that’s always just written so that Sam even with the best intentions loses #and Dean even if hes morally great at best always wins #the fucking double standard yall!