#the s3 era was so fun

[magicandmundane]

Happy anniversary to The Bad Batch season 3 trailer dropping on a random Monday in January

[morhido]

Omg can you guys believe this episode aired a year ago 😱😱👻🪱

[pynkhues]

I'm the anon talking about Louis's eating. I agree that his eating is probably still disordered. But eating disorders are not necessarily going to cause you to lose or gain weight. I agree with your thoughts that there is a ritualistic element in his eating in Dubai that probably indicates an unhealthy relationship with his food still. It's so interesting to think about. I want to know about the farm too! One of my favourite things about Louis is his hypocrisy. When I hear "farm" I find it hard to think it can possibly be ethical.

(x)

Very true, anon, I actually was thinking earlier too that better eating would probably have less of an impact on Louis at this point (given he's off the street rat diet at least and Lestat's the one now on it) than having to presumably fend off hoards of vampires, haha. In theory though, their physicalities can't and won't change all that much since they've been turned, of course - that's even part of the trauma of it all for both Claudia and soon Gabrielle with the new season - so in a lot of ways it probably is a bit of a moot point to discuss.

And yes! I love Louis' hypocrisy too, I feel like it's often a part of characters, but usually for the nature of plot, whereas the writers really lean into it as just being a part of his personality. Same with him being a snob / enjoying wealth - I mentioned it briefly in the last post, but I'm kind of obsessed with him getting Daniel to watch him eat like, this exotic animal after talking about eating rats and feral cats? It's such a pointed way to demonstrate both class elevation but also just a complete show of both wealth and power.

But then, his access to blood in the way that he consumes it is too, which ties back into what, exactly, the farm is. I totally agree with you that there's no way that it can be ethical, but whatever it is - - I am just. Very Curious to find out, haha.

[aq2003]

looking at my redone 10th doctor episode tierlist and i'm realizing that there is quite literally no such thing as too goofy. if it's goofy i quite literally do not care and if it's goofy enough that it becomes funny it gains extra points . the bad episodes are the ones where i don't like what's being done with the characters or they were boring for me to watch and the good episodes are the ones where i like what's being done with the characters and i had a good time. and also regardless of how overall well executed the episode is if there is a single scene in it that makes me cry it's shooting to the top . also btw the more i think about gridlock the more i think it absolutely bangs. hell traffic my beloved. giant crabs my beloved. story beat of seeing the sky of your home planet again (and how ten can never go home) my beloved. "you are not alone" being something that scares and unsettles ten more than it comforts him my beloved. entire last convo between ten and martha + the gallifrey monologue my beloved. gridlock my beloved

[microwaving-tesilid-argente]

@orathearsonman

im LAUGHING so hard rn bc it didn't occur to me, but you're so right reed would milk it SO HARD

reed is fainting swooning and coughing so loudly that he doubles over pathetically, while tesilid is just standing there like 🧍👁️ 👁️ trying to force his own coughs into something as close to a soft mewl as he can

Reed/Ai hanahaki au. send post.

[natandacat]

For s3 i either want armand to be lost in the fog absolutely no contact whatsoever with any of the cast (potentially they could do something fun by putting him in his suicide attempt era now and hes currently somewhere doing his thing with sybelle & benji) OR i want him to be fucking everyone but like. In secret.

Louis is fucking armand bc of bad divorce decisions and bc its somehow a better idea than fucking lestat right now (aaaand he kinda accidentally called daniel claudia during his early fledgling craze so hes forbidding himself from fucking him until that starts making sense). Also the sex was real good for 74 years and fucking around is a bit too san francisco for his taste so as long as he doesnt think about it too much this is a good arrangement. Armand is NOT allowed to call him maître or to mention anything serious at all though. The longest sentence they say to each other is like "take off your clothes" and thats IT.

Lestat is fucking armand bc louis wont fuck him and armand is looking reaaaally dishevelled these days and its activating his obsession with dolling him up. Lestat gets to give him long scented baths every time he shows up grimmier than the last and dress him up in whatever high fashion garments hes got in his closet that armand can make snide comments about -which they both enjoy as old snobs. Also gabrielle might be more around bc of the akasha business so shes on his mind a lot and armand is always eager to indulge his mommy kink as a way to one-up gabrielle.

Daniel is fucking armand but armand does wipe his mind about it bc he still wants to do the whole absent father thing as a misplaced act of what he believes is kindness but also hes very lonely and he cant help but indulge in the fantasy of a fledgling who wants him around (which is kinda real by daniel molloy standards but armand is convinced that he knows best and daniel hates him. Which is true but daniel kinda just needs like an apology and to scream at him for 3 uninterrumpted days which armand cannot comprehend for now)

None of them are aware that everyone else is fucking armand so when they meet theyre all like "ah yes armand... havent heard of him... yeah its been years..." when they just got their backs blown out like 2 hours ago

[vidavalor]

The Movie

The most important thing is that he's gone.

If you're feeling sad that it's not the full season and would like some reassurance about the rest of the story being movie-length, though?

Based on where the story is now? They can absolutely do this in 90 minutes. Would it have been more fun if it was the whole season? Of course. But they can do this in 90 minutes-- and do it well. I think there's actually less to go in the plot in the present than we might realize. How so?

I'm pretty sure the next part of the story has never really been plotted to be Supreme Archangel Aziraphale. The end game seems to me to be a bit more they all have to overthrow Heaven to save Aziraphale and that's how they save the world. Meaning, that was Satan with the coffee in The Final 15 and Aziraphale's fall is the plot. The kickoff here in the movie would be the same as it would have been if we had a full S3: the audience gets the hinted at 2.06 twist revealed in full right near the start when they see Aziraphale get to Heaven and be thrown to Hell by The Metatron. The other characters then quickly learn what's happened to Aziraphale. They band together to challenge Heaven--that's the whole Powell & Pressburger's 'A Matter of Life and Death' trial & how it fits into things.

Aziraphale won't accept a verdict that's just for him and not Crowley as well and the process of all of this winds up exposing and overthrowing The Metatron and Hell, freeing the demons. (Gabriel gets his suit back and is their lawyer, you just know it lol.) By coming together to save Aziraphale, the characters fix Heaven/Hell, which then saves Earth and permanently stops the threat of Armageddon. The remainder of the time is wrap up where Crowley & Aziraphale work through what's happened and then head to the South Downs.

All of that stuff in the present that I just said can actually be done inside of an hour, tops. Especially because no one has to set up the characters and story like they would if this were a stand-alone film. They can just dive straight in. That still leaves at least a half-hour--if not a bit more, depending-- for flashing us back to whatever we need to see that supports what's happening in the present (The Vavoom, 1941, probably Jane Austen, likely one or two other things we don't know we need to see yet). More than likely? This is a series of scenes like the S1 cold open more than it is a longer, single-era, flashback minisode. I don't think anyone would complain about another cold open-like sequence? 😊

The movie can work. For perspective? Look at the chart below.

We are at the Big Twist that is The Act II Climax & it's really almost fully done already. All that's left in that Big Twist is to just overtly tell it to the audience because The Final 15 already did all hinting the set up work for it.

As you can see, we're really just moments away from everyone regrouping for the big, final push of the story-- the Act III Climax/overthrowing Heaven-- before we're into the South Downs Cottage ending. This is one of the reasons why I think that S1 showed us Monday-Sunday of The Last Week of the World: Round One with Armageddon being stopped on Saturday but S2 revealed we were watching The Last Week of the World: Round Two... but then stopped the season early on Friday morning. S3, imho, has always been going to pick up within hours of where the 2.06 cliffhanger ended and show us the mirrored Saturday & Sunday of this week that we still have out there.

They won't need to set up at the start of the film where characters are years later because the S2 story we were watching was always written for S3 to pick up basically right where the S2 cliffhanger leaves off. S3 was always going to continue directly the story of S2 rather than come at the story from a place of a dead stop of years having gone by. I think the best way to look at the movie might be as if it is really the S2 finale. Think of it as if S2 actually has 8 episodes but we've only seen 6 of them so far and we're still awaiting the last two.

Each season of the show, in and of itself, follows that above Three Act Structure, even if the overall series of Good Omens is also following it for its overall story as well. Think back on the last two episodes of S1, which would then be similar in some structural elements and in pacing to this movie.

The Act III Climax in S1 is Armageddon being stopped in Tadfield. That will be overthrowing Heaven in the movie. The Obstacle that followed in S1 as a result of stopping Armageddon and which led into the wrap-up conclusion was Heaven & Hell coming after Crowley & Aziraphale/the body swap plot. When Crowley and Aziraphale solved those obstacles-- in short time, as this is part of the wrap-up-- we then left them dining at The Ritz on Sunday afternoon. These episodes were a very clear-cut example of what an Act III in Three Act Structure within a season looks like and it is likely-- structurally-- going to be very similar to what the model for the finale movie will be. The pacing will be a lot alike, just with some flashbacks in the mix.

Think about how little time it actually took to stop Armageddon once everyone was in Tadfield-- and that most of the finale was just getting characters who had already been set up earlier in the story to Tadfield for that to happen. That's about how much time it's going to take them to overthrow Heaven in the movie. We've actually already watched most of the set up in the story to get to that place in S2. Then, think about how the Obstacles part in S1 was the body swap plot... but how that same type of obstacle wouldn't exist in the S3 movie. Why?

Because this movie is going to stop Armageddon permanently by overthrowing Heaven & Hell. Unlike in S1, when Crowley and Aziraphale were still being targeted, they're going to be truly free for the first time ever by this same point in the S3 movie. So, what are the Obstacles then? Their own stuff. This is where we would get the scenes of two of them having the chance to fully talk through The Final 15 of S2 and, in the process, understand where everything went wrong and have the South Downs Cottage then be the happy ending.

There's plenty of space for this in the story because this is where it's all leading and the part about overthrowing Heaven and Hell-- that Act III Climax that sets up this ending? Going into the movie after where S2 left off, we're actually only a heartbeat away from it already.

This is all very do-able within 90 minutes, with plenty of room for things like The Vavoom and 1941. It might not be the full season that we hoped for but the story is in a way better place to wrap this up with a movie than most shows in this position would be.

[katstiel]

After just having finished Teen Wolf for the first time, I can't stop thinking about Sterek. I am just so fucking fascinated by the phenomenon of this ship.

What is fascinating about it, is that there is BARELY any textual support for the ship at all. These two characters pretty much stop interacting after 2 seasons. If I'm being honest, their chemistry isn't even anything that wild. Any overtly shippable moments between the two can be counted on one hand.

What is fascinating, is that I firmly believe this ship exists due to the meta-textual context surrounding the show. Imo there are 2 main parts to this:

1. Sterek is a perfect example of queerbaiting in the original sense of the word. Because despite not having seen the show at the time, I vividly remember the boat video circulating. If you don't know what boat video I am talking about, just search YouTube for 'Sterek boat'. It is probably the most insane marketing stunt I've seen for a show.

And, after looking into it, it seems that the creative forces behind the show actively encouraged fans to ship Sterek through Asks here on Tumblr and other social media posts.

If this marketing hadn't happened, I don't think Sterek would've ever been as big as it became.

2. Derek as a character has no real purpose in the plot of Teen Wolf, except in the 1st and maybe half of the 2nd season. He is there mainly for the gratuitous nudity and objectification. Tyler Hoechlin is shirtless in so many scenes that frankly, it's a little ridiculous. In most other YA shows from the same era, he would occupy the love interest role for the main character... Except, Teen wolf's main character is, unlike most other fantasy/ya shows at the time, a guy. More importantly, the male main character Scott's entire motivation in the first few seasons revolve around his own love interest, Allison. So obviously, Scott isn't available to pair Derek up with. That leaves Stiles. Stiles isn't technically the main character, but he is the closest after Scott.

Stiles is also queer-coded like crazy. I don't know how the fandom reacted to the S3 moment where he talks to a bisexual girl, but if I had been in the fandom at the time, I would have taken it as explicit confirmation that Stiles is bi. There is no other way to interpret that scene, and no other purpose for it to be in the show.

So we have a classic, hot love interest character with no obvious romantic partner, and a queer-coded, almost-main character. The logical result is Sterek.

So like. Without the marketing or the context of similar shows of that time, there really is no reason to ship Sterek other than a vague "their dynamic is fun" that could be equally applied to many other pairings on the show. Which, for the record, is a completely respectable reason to ship something, but it would never have resulted in one of the biggest ships on Ao3 (at one point, it was second to only Destiel) on its own.

I'm not even gonna apologize for how long this post turned out because if I could, I would write an entire academic research paper on how this ship came to be. It is genuinely a fascinating case.

[cobragardens]

Aziraphale's Ring Is a Queer Symbol

In a previous post I hold forth about the symbolism of the lion rampant on the escutcheon of Aziraphale's signet ring. The upshot is that the golden lion is used by Heaven as a symbol of its threat and its merciless, murderous corporate culture, and I argue that in S3 Aziraphale must subvert this stamp of Heavenly ownership and symbolically redefine the golden lion by summoning the courage to be soft.

Now I've learned some new stuff about how signet rings are worn. Come, sistren, and get nerdy with me.

Aziraphale's ring is one of several we see angels wearing in Good Omens. Here in an indispensably useful post, @indigovigilance lists the known rings of Show Omens angels and those rings' qualities and placement. Note how of the angels who have rings, everyone except Saraqael and Aziraphale wear their rings on their LEFT pinky fingers. There's a reason for this.

Since the medieval period in Britain and Germany, and from there in the U.S., signet rings have been bestowed by professional associations as a sign of membership, particularly at the upper end of society: trade guilds, colleges, hospitals, the Church(es), noble families, and societies like the Freemasons all issue(d) signet rings to some of their members. The traditional placement for signet rings of show professional affiliation is the left pinky finger.

In fact, as it was not socially acceptable in or past the Victorian era for men to wear rings on more than one finger, men who wore signet rings and wedding rings both would have their wedding rings sized to fit the pinky finger below the signet. If a ring had to be moved to preserve masculinity, it wasn't the pinky ring that was going anywhere. Family signets can be worn on any of a number of fingers, but since the Victorian period the men of the British Royal Family (who are from Germany) have been especial sticklers about wearing their signets on their left pinky fingers as well.

So. If you're British and you have a signet ring that's meant to indicate professional affiliation, you wear it on your left pinky.

But Aziraphale wears his signet ring on his RIGHT hand.

Before I offer my opinion on what that means, here's some more fun background on the history and significance of pinky rings in Anglo-American culture:

The Victorian period was when pinky rings started to become associated with queerness.

As fellow members of the Hundred Guineas Club, Oscar Wilde and Aziraphale would likely have been acquaintances.

According to Wikipedia (ibid.):

"During the Victorian era, both single men and women uninterested in pursuing marriage could wear a ring on the little finger of their left hand."

This quickly expanded to a pinky ring on either hand. Here's Wikipedia's picture of farmer and philanthropist Caroline Rose Foster in 1917, the Edwardian era, wearing a pinky ring on her right hand:

Do you smell a euphemism in "uninterested in pursuing marriage"? I do!

By midcentury--so only 30 years after Ms Foster up there--American and British queers, both men and women, were using signet pinky rings specifically to signal queerness to each other.

"For gay men in the 1950’s and 60’s, a way of signaling to others was through the wearing of a signet ring on the pinkie finger."

"During the 1950’s and 60’s signet rings were worn to signify membership of the gay community; both lesbians and homosexual men wore such rings."

The pinky rings @indigovigilance points out Maggie wears may mean she's an angel; they also match her midcentury lesbian style. Devious of the costumers to give her pinky rings on both hands rather than commit to one or the other.

Screenshot by @indigovigilance

To review, there are three reasons a person in Anglo-American culture might wear a pinky ring:

They just feel like it--This can be any kind of ring and can be worn on either hand or both

Professional affiliation--This is a signet ring worn on the left pinky finger

To signal queerness--This is a signet ring and can be worn on either pinky finger

Aziraphale has worn a signet ring on his RIGHT pinky finger at least since he repaired the Eastern "Gate" in the Wall of Eden, so I'm not suggesting that he adopted the 20th-century pinky signet trend to signal his queerness (although as a clockably 'gay' 'man,' Soho fixture, and member of the Hundred Guineas Club, he may well have started it). What I am suggesting is that Aziraphale has been given a ring by Heaven that Heaven intends him to use to show his professional affiliation, but as with the flaming sword he gives away, Aziraphale doesn't use the ring for its intended purpose. By wearing the ring on his right hand, Aziraphale removes the option of interpreting it as a symbol of his professional affiliation with Heaven and renders it strictly a personal ornament. He subverts a symbol of Heavenly menace into an object of beauty and queerness.

I mean queerness in both senses. If a human takes any symbolic notice of his ring, they'll note the signet is on his right hand and conclude Aziraphale is gay. If another angel takes any notice of it, they'll conclude Aziraphale is a bit odd--that he doesn't pay attention to the finer points of how to fit in with the archangels, doesn't do things like other angels do.

In conclusion, pinky signet rings as a queer signal are just the fucking coolest and I vote we bring them back immediately.

[lowkeyrobin]

Could I request, what dating sparrow!ben hargreeves would be living a peaceful life possible after season 4 (let’s pretend like it never happened) preference or one shot (you decide)

Peaceful life- like the plans he said to Jennifer in the car, moving away, etcetera

P.s I loveeeeeee your tua and descendants writing keep up the amazing work 🫶🏻🫶🏻



aweee stop this is so cute 💔💔💔 ; also yes went for hc cause no way am I figuring out how to oneshot that shit ; also thank you 🫶🫶 I appreciate it lol ; also if there's supposed to be an anon emoji down there I can't see it 💀💀 it's just an [obj] box, prob cause I have an android and we don't have the same emojis as iphones n shit lmao ; thanks for requesting, hope you enjoy! ; ps idk why I couldn't find that scene so I just kinda made some shit up lmfao

SPARROW! BEN ; runaways

summary ; your perfect life after running away with Ben except it doesn't end the world

warnings ; language

disclaimers ; no jail time for Ben / no s4 at all ig, reader isn't a brellie but refers to them as siblings + as kind of like an add on to them like lila

word count ; 363

masterlist

you and ben, after falling in love during the s3 era, decided you should just run away together

he'd taken a fond liking of you considering you were both so oddly peaceful when it came to just the two of you

the wedding at the end of the world really solidified it

and then you made out!

but after resetting the timeline and losing your powers, there was nothing to really stick around for

considering you wiped out all the marigold and sloane had disappeared (considering she would've never been born or was erased somehow) and your siblings had all gone off to live their lives, it was time you did too

you only knew Ben for like two weeks before you actually fell for each other so learning about one another was really fun

you packed up your bags (or what remained of them) and headed to wherever the back roads could take you

in the car you learned about each other's music taste and your hobbies, and all the sights you wanted to see around the world

the road took you to south carolina

you stayed on the beach for a week and it was honestly really nice

thank god you were able to steal thousands from sparrow-reggies secret stash lol

there you discovered Ben's hatred for water...

but after a week or so you packed up again and headed west

you drove around the country for about three years just sightseeing and living the most you could considering the two of you never really saw anything outside of home

but after a while, you had to settle down somewhere and make a proper life for yourselves

you both craved to be normal people, to pay bills and taxes and hold down jobs, maybe even make a family, as fucked as it was

I mean, trillionaires son moves to the middle of nowhere to live like a normal person? kinda crazy

you built a house on some old farmland on the outskirts of a little town, surrounded by forest and acres of empty land

you call around the family every once in a while, wanting to know how they're doing and what they're up to

ben couldn't really care tho, he only rlly cares for you, the others weirded him out

you couldn't blame him tho since he barely knew them and they knew a different version of him

when you're on the phone, head tilted as both hands are occupied by biscuit mix that you were mixing up, he stands by you with a soft smile on his face, helping you morph them into balls and put them on the tray

think a 90s type of house, very brown, window seats, etc

you live such a sweet ass life man

you sit on the front porch swing and drink coffee while you watch the sunrise

and in winter you cuddle up by the fireplace and watch shitty hallmark movies

you even started a YouTube channel for shits and giggles where you watch awful movies on cable TV and commentate over them because it's funny

you have a calico cat named sorbet

you have a strawberry garden in the backyard that surrounds the porch

and you go out to eat every friday

so many hugs from behind from the other when one is cooking

sweet kisses on the temple as well

so cavity causing sweet

[jinks050]

Finally, sharing my recent brainrot for the Malevolent podcast and the best ride or die duo ever.

More art under here but it has slight spoilers for S4 with character design references/inspirations. (Basically, fun design lore)

I really love this podcast and when it came to designing the characters I wanted to take on irl actors from movies and eras very akin to the podcast’s theme/genre of thriller, horror noir.

Post S3 return John Doe’s design or as I like to call him “John Deco” takes inspiration from an old photo I took from a library book on art deco advertisement/art back in 2017. Years I’ve been waiting to make a design inspired by it and this what led to that. Also, Dick Tracy was thrown in there bc I like the idea of John reforming his parts of his fragmented soul (shown in the first photo) to suit his newly growing humanity and detective skills.

So, ditch the yellow robe for a yellow trench coat to match his bestie and what the humans John has seen wearing in this era was a no brainer.

Alright, that’s all I had to share, I got more drawing to do!

[its-opheliasgarden]

thanks so much for tagging me @bunnithechubs and @aheathen-conceivably for starting this tag! tagging @coolpuppy12, @m0ckest, @helloavocadooo, @etozheden, @budgie2budgie, @acuar-io, @gilded-ghosts, @giannascorner, and @obscurus-noctem to join in on the fun (optional, no pressure) and anyone else who wants to try!

📅 january - march: this is when i entered my regency era for 3 months. my main inspo came from mods by the talented @janesimsten. this kept me occupied while i waited for s3 of bridgerton. i've been on the fence about starting a historical simblr (wip name...the orangery). i do hope i can share more about the thistlewaite sisters in 2025...

📅 april - june: simblr was blessed with THE incredible silent pines save (@silentpinessave) which inspired me to start my gp, between the pines. very 90s/early 00s inspired so had fun trying to capture that style and aesthetic...i do miss them. i have this whole storyline in my head about them solving mysteries on their road trip to the bigger mystery that awaits them in silent pines...

📅 april - june: so sunflowers bloom east enters the chat. the gp was very much born from nostalgia and reconnecting with anime i grew up with (e.g., peach girl). building this save was fun esp. remaking newcrest. even making the subway for the cover shot, so proud of how it turned out. my 2025 goal is to get back into this gp because i love it so so much especially my girl, rieko...

📅 july - september: summer into fall, i got into a fine dining/restaurant drama binge (e.g., the bear, boiling point) so started my gp with khosi wambui called aftertaste. i had a lot of fun playing with the tool mod and recreating san myshuno. even made a culinary school?! also randomly started a spin off gp called frayed edges with zuri maartens, who owns the thrift shop, spice & stitches...

📅 october - december: i got inspired to create the (belated) simblreen gift called umbra boulevard after watching the new salem's lot movie. it's definitely one of favs especially the hidden secrets and lore i got to build in...it was hard only choosing a few screenshots from this build tbh...

📅 october - december: so you've already seen some of posts about the delgato's new home, but i had so much fun decorating it. still have photos i haven't released but the living room, kitchen, and evie's room are my favorites! also there's a big brindleton bay gp coming with this inspired by all the british thriller mysteries i've been binging. i've been spending (too much) time building out the save...

so overall theme is my simblr is highly influenced by whatever tv show i'm binging. thesis completed. cheers to more random tangents in 2025 and maybe sticking and finally completing a gp (maybe)...

-d.

[faceofpoe]

Poe, I was delighted, nay, obsessed with the post you reblogged about Collapsed Coruscant. What do you think would happen there after everyone with any credits fucked off to Hosnian Prime or wherever?

Ha, hello friend! Thank you for the much-needed break from doomscrolling. XD

My morbid obsession with Coruscant has always been around how we've seen it (it's so twisted! it just keeps burying itself, layer by layer! the iconic episode 10 Luthen&Lonni shot is of course an excellent example of the old mostly-forgotten infrastructure but my favorite glimpse of the depths is actually in the final Clone Wars season (there's a fucking lake! fucking what. and even THAT is like... so HIGH relative to the surface) (the SURFACE! there's some twisted remnant of a dead planet down there!) (I have gathered through the course of researching for a TBB fic that the TCW portrayal is largely born from a canceled video game called 1313? I think? Lost to the Dark Times the Disney I imagine. Anyway I digress)(MiniPoe just came down to tell me about his Sonic Encyclo-speedia and something about Metal Sonic getting too much backstory(?)(maybe?)so I lost my train of thought)).

BUT if we take a moment to imagine the infrastructure that must go into keeping the lower levels habitable (I'm not sure what the canon (if any) on how deep one can go) with food and water and air (I mean - AIR, at some depth surely it's just suffocating surely??) -

Side tangent there was an old EU novel in the New Jedi Order bonkers era where a mass evacuation of Coruscant/collapse of the government-ish happened and the novel Traitor has a character wandering the desolation of the planet and all the destruction and I don't remember a lot from it (there were def monsters though) but it's probably where my obsession was born.

Additional side tangent one of the EU X-wing novels has a fun little bit with a star destroyer buried (somehow??? these books were written pre-prequels, mind) under the city and it blasts its way free and just MAYHEM DESTRUCTION DEATH like millions of people just -

LAST side tangent in I thiiiiink the EU Jedi Academy trilogy (do not quote me on that) (also pre-prequels days) the Very Young Solo twins wandered off and ended up finding their way to the bottom of Coruscant where they met a dude who was like... a self-proclaimed king of the underworld (I think he'd once been some govt lackey under Palpatine maybe? I read these like 14 years ago lol) and he'd fled and was ruling happily in the depths and upon being informed 'oh hey yeah it's not like that anymore the Empire is gone you can come back up now' he was all "why would I I am a KING down here?" and just fucked off back to the basement.

Point being the EU was ridiculous as all fuck but it had fun playing with Coruscant before we had a Lucas-approved visual of Coruscant.

BUT if all the wealth up and fled Coruscant after the Empire. Hm. I mean, we still see a significant govt presence on the planet a handful of years later in Mando s3 I believe? So I like to imagine there was a sense of 'hey let's not murder trillions via negligence' but as time goes on and instability heightens and whatever the fuck First Order schisming or some shit (sorry I'm the worst sort of Star Wars fan (the type who thinks Star Wars would be good if only it were good))-

I feel like Coruscant would actually become a bastion (lol (no one gets that joke probably)) for remaining (wealthy) Imperial ideologues. Like - maybe some money would flee but I actually wonder if plenty wouldn't move in and continue enjoying living atop all the poor denizens of the depths. Content to live in the shadow of former Imperial glory and leave the New Republic to its rebuilding.

Ensuing power struggle with underworld warlord sorts who have been moving up since the Empire was yeeted? Waiting until the New Republic gets bored rehabilitating the galaxy to come all the way up and claim the prime real estate?

Eventual massive division and power struggle among a bunch of chaos factions, basically, is my proposal. Eventually, winning becomes more important than maintaining the infrastructure and supply lines. Eventually, maybe, the vicious competition for said supply lines ends up severing them altogether. Plenty of safer business to pursue, in the galactic rebuilding. Coruscant slowly fades from the greater galactic awareness. Left to its madness. Left to tear itself apart. Left to rot. Eventually left, undoubtedly, by many of the same sorts who set it on its slow death spiral in the first place.

Coruscant eventually goes dark.

Coruscant eventually goes quiet.

Every new level constructed through the millennia was, of course, built to be the best, the top, built to last.

How strange to finally have one emerge the victor, standing proud atop a dead city.

But the planet is just the same thing it always was, far back as history remembers - a tomb at the heart of the galaxy.

[webbluvrsugar]

where would our multifandom boys take you on a date? (100 followers special!)

outerbanks ಿৎ

Rafe Cameron

> would take you on a fancy date on one of the restaurants you like, buy you some jewellery with his initials engraved or maybe even some diamonds, make sure you’re well fed and drunk off champagne before he takes you back home and fucks you good against the sheets.

> if you’ve been dating for a while (probably s3 rafe), I can also see him taking you on a boat ride on his yacht at night and propose to you right there, and he’s not usually sappy, but the sex that night is different, it’s slow and precise, one of his hands holding yours as the moonlight shines above you both and you can hear the shore in the background — aaaaah dying.

JJ Maybank

> we all know he doesn’t have much money but he’ll still try and make it special, I can totally see it being a beach date, he’ll probably want you to have fun so he’ll teach you something new, maybe you’ll learn how to surf.

> you spend the whole day there, just running and goofing around with him and it’s honestly one of the best dates you’ve had because it feels so real, so when the night comes and you’re laying next to each other, eating some type of fruit you’ve cut for him, he pulls a golden necklace out of his pocket that you’re not so sure how he could afford it, but he’s happy, he stares at you expectantly, so you don’t question it and you take it, kissing sweetly after.

Pope Heyward

> I can imagine picnic dates or maybe even just chilling anywhere with him already becomes a date, but he wants it to feel nice and he wants you to feel like he’s put effort into it, so he takes you somewhere you like, maybe a special spot between the two of you, he spends a little extra money on getting you some type of nice fruit that you like, and after that, you cuddle with the wind over you.

John B

> honestly, I don’t think dates would happen that much, not that he doesn’t take you on dates but I feel like you would spend more time together at either one of your places laying in bed, probably fucking, but definitely loads of cuddling.

scream ಿৎ

Ethan Landry

> he would take you on some thematic cafe or restaurant because I feel like he’s just a nerd like that, or even a theme park, he’d probably like to go on the haunted houses because for some reason you totally don’t know, he likes to watch the way you flinch and jump when one of the actors scares you.

> second option would be to the movies, horror movies for sure.

challengers ಿৎ

Patrick Zweig

> probably would take you on a bar or a club because his favourite thing is getting drunk and watching you dance and rub yourself all over him when he’s had a few drinks, he’ll probably fuck you on a dirty bathroom.

> if he’s feeling romantic, he’ll plan a little dinner over his place, some half-crunched flowers on his hands, but you still dig it, there’s a few candles and it’s quite nice considering it’s him, and he also gives you head after so you can’t really complain.

Art Donaldson

> his dates are always romantic, I feel like if it was in his Stanford era, he’d probably take you to a cafe or to the movies and do that class move where he places an arm around you because he learned it from Patrick, he’s also a little awkward and a little shy, but the date is nice and he blushes when you kiss him during the movie, maybe even slips a hand on your thigh.

saltburn ಿৎ

Felix Catton

> if it was at Oxford, he’ll make it a big night at the club and make sure everyone knows it’s your birthday, he’ll pay for your drinks, the shots that you take off his abs, he’ll smoke a few blunts with you and then toss you on his shoulder while everyone in the background claps and cheers, then he’ll throw you on his bed, remove that tiny dress off you and give you the good railing you both were waiting for.

> if it was at Saltburn, he’ll throw a big thematic party at the manor, he invited your friends and there’s even people you don’t even know on there because he invited them anyways, but it’s nice, you’ve never had big parties like this so it feels nice. In the middle of the party, you both escape from the crowd and end up fucking in the maze.

just as a warning: I only did this for the boys which is why there’s not any girls in this, hope you like it anyways.

Thank you so much for the support! I can’t believe I’ve already reached this mark, I love you all!

Ps: this does not change anything of the poll, I’ll still make whatever you choose on there!

[bunnybonesstudio]

BunnyBonesStudio’s Favorite Binary Boyfriend Fanfiction List!

This list took literal hours to make because tumblr had terrible formatting and linking.

BUT I powered through just so I can show you all of my most favorite Binary Boyfriend fanfics!

As of January 2025, these are my top picks (in no real order) of what I consider to be the best of the best!

I linked who I could here on tumblr; so give the creators a follow! They deserve it!

—

“Nocturnal” by Summerphlox (@demetriandelibinaryboyfriends)

My favorite Binary Boyfriends fanfiction to date. It’s a small monster AU, vampire!Demetri and Werewolf!Eli. I love monsters (werewolves especially) and the metaphors that come with them, so this is everything I adore in stories. Chapter 2 is the best thing I’ve ever read in terms of Binary Boyfriends material. It’s intense, it’s sad, it’s heartfelt, it’s tender, it’s hilarious. It’s everything great about Demetri and Eli as a couple. It’s a quick real, three chapters, and I highly suggest for everyone to give it a read!

“Awakening” by Summerphlox (@demetriandelibinaryboyfriends)

Oh, look! Another monster AU! Same author as “Nocturnal” and this time Demetri is a werewolf! It’s a S6 story, fully inspired by Demetri’s angst bitch era. This would probably be my favorite, but it’s not finished so we haven’t gotten the real meat of the story yet. I’m sure it will be amazing when it comes out though! Demetri is convinced Eli hates him after admitting he didn’t apply to MIT and straight up becomes a creature about it. Meanwhile Eli is literally making the worlds biggest Doe-Eyes at him, trying his best to apologize for it. They’re stupid, I love them.

“Our Flight With Chance” by hunkydorkling (@sinful-karateka)

Part of the ‘Best Line Fit’ series. An Eli-centric college AU slowburn. Basically Eli comes home from college and reconnects with everyone, including Demetri. That is much easier said than done since Eli had a shit ton of baggage and guilt to work through. Complete with angst, shitty parents, and crying while masterbating scenes. It’s got it all!

“Persistence of Vision” by bat_country (@baldwinboy5ive)

I forgot to add this one to the original list by accident 🫠 (sorry!). EXCELLENT S6 ONESHOT! It has the incredible flair of the new cool trend of Demetri being pissed at Eli and Eli making big sad doe eyes at him for about ten minutes before they ultimately make up because they’re so in love. It’s a fun, short read and satisfies the lovers quarrel trope that we all love to see!

“You Can’t Even See How Much You’re Mine” by citriciel

This is an oldie but a goodie. I think S3 era. Eli gets beat up and run to Demetri about it. Demetri cleans him up and they talk out all the shit that happened. It’s very sweet. But, the best part is SCAR KISSES. THIS is the story that got me hooked on the troupe of Demetri kissing and complimenting Eli’s lip scar. And this story does it best, hands down. Everyone should study that scene and learn from it. We absolutely need more tender scar smooches from these two.

“Breaking the Hawk” by OptimisticallyCynical

I don’t think a Binary Boyfriends fic list is complete without this one. This is THE angst fic, the ULTIMATE hurt/comfort story, the BIG slowburn. The quintessential Hawkmetric fic to end all other Hawkmetric fics. And it isn’t even finished, lol. Yeah, this one won’t ever be finished but that’s actually okay. There’s 40+ chapters of amazing content. It’s perfect how it is and is the best example of S3 angst. Read it. It’s basically required reading to be in the fandom.

“Survey Says” by OptimisticallyCynical

From the author of “Breaking the Hawk” a oneshot of Eli being and idiot and Demetri lovingly going along with his bullshit. Basically Yasmine sends them a meme of “If the waiter at a restaurant give you the check, they think you’re the top.” Eli, being how he is, want to try it because he’s POSITIVE the waiter would have him the check. It’s a very silly and in character premise that leads to a very cute date fic. The ending is also hilarious so I definitely recommend for everyone to give it a read.

“Let’s Do the Time Warp Again!” by unsaid_eddie

A time loop AU! Unsaid_eddie makes excellent supernatural AUs and, in my opinion, this is the best one. It’s Eli-centric and really focuses in on his frame of mind when it comes to Demetri and his life. It’s S4 era, specifically about the junior prom, so we get some real deep emotional Eli thoughts, considering he just got his head shaved. It’s Groundhog day rules too, it’s a really fun story! Also, bonus points for Miguel being the bestest friend to Eli ever in this story. He’s a real one. Also I’m pretty sure this story won and award in CK fanfic contest, so this is a true blue ribbon fic! Amazing story, definitely read it!

“How to Inhabit a Body” by unsaid_eddie

Unsaid_eddie is back again with magic AUs. This time with two Elis; specifically Hawk and Eli becoming two separate entities. To fix it, they ask Demetri for help. Of course they do. It’s an extremely interesting read to see pre-Hawk Eli and S3 Hawk interact with each other because they’re so insanely different. It’s also funny to see them interact with Demetri; Demetri very openly is sweet on pre-Hawk Eli and, in turn, Eli is terrible at hiding his crush on Demetri. Also, bonus point for actually seeing pre-Hawk Eli. I absolutely adore his character before the script flip. Not that I don’t live all of his character arc, but seeing it in fanfic is rare. So props to this story!

“Drifting” by Asphodelia (@asphodel-storm)

This one you have to be an AO3 member to read! This one isn’t really talked about, but it’s incredible. Eli basically cyberstalks Demetri and Yasmine on Instagram after they go to Greece for college. Eli stays home and just seethes that he can’t have Demetri and gets all sad about it. It’s kinda angsty, but the ending is REALLY GOOD and very sweet. It’s a Oneshot so it’s a quick read for anyone who’s curious!

“I Guess Now It’s Time (That You Came Back For Good)” by Ithinkwehaveanemergancy

This is a series of one shots that all follow one narrative. It’s a ‘getting together’ series! It’s a tiny little bit spicy, but it’s perfectly in line with their characters and it’s kept pretty light. It’s super funny and casual and is all feel-good vibes. It also is in line with my jacked Demetri theory. We all know that man has a six pack under those shitty pun shirts and Eli straight up can’t handle that, lol. It’s a little longer, but I definitely suggest a read for the quintessential Binary Boyfriends fic experience.

“Everyone Knows That You Love Me, Baby” by Ithinkwehaveanemergancy

SAM AND DEMETRI BEST FRIENDS SUPERIORITY! Don’t get me wrong, this fic is absolutely adorable with all of Demetri’s mis-steps to tell Eli he’s in love with him. However, the friendship is between Sam and Demetri is why this fic is so great. Sam is being his biggest cheerleader and wingman in this story. It’s so cute and very wholesome. Anthony also comes in clutch at the end and it’s hilarious. Definitely a read for all platonic sametri lovers and for those who like comedy forward one shots!

“I’m Wanting it Back” by @emloafs

Every fandom needs one really good amnesia fic. This is the binary boyfriends’ one. Eli gets amnesia after a bad accident and queue 2 years of life gone. He’s in pre-Hawk mentality and has to learn, well, everything again. It’s some good angst with Demetri and Eli but also some great stuff with Miguel too. Eli has basically forgotten their whole friendship so we have multiple plot lines going on! I remember waiting with baited breath for each chapter when it was first coming out, so you know it’s good. Really excellent fic!

“I Knew It, I Know You” by @emloafs

Insanely good AU. So Eli and Demetri never made up in S3, they just drifted and Demetri cut him out of his life completely. This story is them meeting again in college, romance and angst ensues! It had everything one could want from a College age Binary Boyfriends fic; soft eli, extreme yearning, drunk makeouts, misunderstandings, everything. Definitely give it a read!

“Andisol” by samemoon (@carmendiazbian)

A Season 4 rewrite basically. It had slight canon divergence but stays true to S4’s story. It’s the angst and guilt we all originally wanted for S4, with Eli feeling world shattering amounts of regret for his actions, Demetri powering through his trauma because he loves Eli, and Sam and company being 100% against Eli even being there. It is almost a fix-it fic because it just fixes the lackluster plot he got for the boys in S4. Extremely good fic, read if you can.

[givehimthemedicine]

Madwheeler and Super-El: Max and Mike's perspectives on El as the (super)hero

working on another post pondering El's role as "the hero" vs the way the show really doesn't support that concept, and places huge importance on teamwork instead.

the hero is usually the strong/capable one expected to take all the risks and save the day, and other characters feel free to throw them at danger without fearing too much for their safety, especially if they also have powers. but when the hero is a little girl, that's harder.

so today I'm chewing on how El is viewed in that light by the two people closest to her - both of whom are prone to contextualizing her powers through a fantasy lens.

so, here comes one of my favorite El-Max topics, but also one where I've shortchanged Mike in the past. I need to revise some of the old stuff I've said about Bad Guy Mike identifying El as a superhero vs Good Guy Max identifying El as just a girl with superpowers. that was a pretty superficial read on both ends.

(I'm sure the Mike parts will be kindergarten review for his fans/analysts, but I don't usually pay him much attention; this is aimed more at the Mike-hater/ignorer elmax crowd I spawned from)

this is a long ramble, but a fun one I think!

let's start with Max.

for her, El begins as a mythological figure. she doesn't believe she exists as described by Lucas. but then El proves her existence via a very badass entrance, and it only supports Max's idea of her as some kind of invincible, superhero-esque figure.

Max scoffs at the idea of El needing Hopper's protection at the lab. actually, El does need it, bigtime! closing the gate takes all her focus, and without Hopper there to fend off demodog attacks, she probably couldn't have done it.

Max doesn't see that, though, and presumably spends little or no time around El between seasons, so her first impression goes unchallenged for almost a year.

we find s3 Max locked in HARD in her faith in El as the hero who can solo the baddie, take care of herself, and save everyone else. she seems to picture that having superpowers means El has nothing to fear.

the sauna is the first time Max actually sees El fight, and it doesn't go how she expects

El fights Billy, but gets overpowered at one point. everybody's stunned: this is the first time any of the party has ever seen El not decisively win a fight, so "uhhh... should we do something?" doesn't kick in instantly. Max and the others watch as El gets choked purple. only Mike intervenes to save her life and give her a moment to regain control of the fight.

"like she needs protection" and "you have super powers! what's the worst that could happen?" age like milk here. this is when Max sees that El is not invincible and needs help. lesson learned!

... ehh well.. actually what happens is, Max doubles down on her solo-hero-El stance after this and has a bigtime attitude about it.

and, okay, I'm ready to admit that Max's overconfidence towards El's abilities leads to her treating El more like she's a superhero than Mike does during this era. not her intent, but, what's said is said. (I'll get into it, bear with me)

when Mike worries about El endangering herself, Max accuses him of not respecting El's right to make her own choices. when Lucas suggests killing the MF with fireworks, she eyerolls him for thinking any non-El approach could be of value.

nobody was 100% right or wrong, but I see Max having the most crow to eat after all this. Mike was right to worry about El's limits and fear for brain damage: she loses her powers entirely (in the sense that this is later likened to the brain-scrambling of a stroke, can it not be said that El did take brain damage from the MF? not exactly how Mike meant it, but?). and Lucas is no dummy for the fireworks idea: it's all that stops El from getting flayed at one point.

El still helps save the day in s3, but as the big powerful solo hero? nah. least of any season. Max's repeated bets on her powers lose.

so why did watching El almost die in the sauna seem to have no effect on Max's perception of her? why does she still assert that El alone will kick all the flayed butts in 3x6, after she needed some nerd's help kicking (1) flayed butt in 3x4?

there is a visible effect! just not the one you expect right away.

mid-3 is Max's guilt and denial era

3 is when all the issues are coalescing that leave Max depressed in 4: she wished for something terrible to happen to Billy, and now it is, so it feels like it's her fault. she's not ready to cope with the guilt that comes from that, or any of the other dominos that are falling as a result.

"I just stood there and watched" is textually about Billy and the flesh monster. but if Max feels guilt for inaction, she would have similar feelings about El in the sauna, where she also took no action.

Max specified that her inaction with Billy wasn't because she was scared or weak, but because she didn't know if he deserved to be saved. It being a decision not to act is why she feels so terrible about it. I see no reason to think it was radically different in the sauna: I could completely buy that she somewhat chose not to act because she didn't think El needed to be saved.

I don't think either are cases of Max blaming herself for an uncontrollable freeze response, because we see multiple illustrations of her not having that response, whether it's herself or others in danger.

post-sauna, Max has plainly seen that El did need protection, and is struggling with the fact that she didn't provide any. the bathroom scene is when her guilt is the clearest, imo.

watch how she gets lost in the sight of El's bruises and stops what she's doing, and the way she asks if it hurts. you can imagine her logic in feeling like those bruises are her fault: both for "causing" the greater situation and for not making a move to help.

but what's really telling is the abrupt change of subject and tone from "are you in pain?" to "lol that Mike's a yapper amirite?". she has a lot of nerve putting Mike down after he's the one who just saved El's ass, right? but that's exactly why she does it. this is 14 year old coping with heavy feelings in an immature manner, as they'll do.

choosing Mike isn't just a random "lol madwheeler worsties" attempt to cheer El up. it's an attempt to bury her shame at her own inaction compared to his action in the sauna. by getting a laugh out of El at Mike's expense and shifting the theme of the scene towards making fun of the boys, she's steering into waters that reflect more favorably on herself, and her bond with El, than him/his.

so I think that's one big reason Max is doubling down on her confidence in El in mid-3: to absolve her guilt. she's trying to convince herself that El really CAN take care of herself despite what she saw. because if El is superheroically powerful, Max has nothing to feel guilty about (and in fact, is El's only good, supportive friend for having faith in her!)

season 3's war of the sexes

here's another reason I think Max doubles down. she has some male-specific trust issues at play behind the scenes in this season that have been messing up her relationship. as a result of El coming to her for advice, Max's private personal trauma-foibles get projected out into this "stupid boys" war of the sexes that clogs up most of the party's season.

why do I bring up trust issues? because Max does. her framing in the cabin argument is pretty bullshit: she spins Mike's concern for El's wellbeing into an issue of trust. which is a kinda odd word for the situation, especially considering it does not play to her advantage.

look at her regret that she let that word escape containment lmao:

Max thinks boyfriends can't be trusted, so it follows that girlfriends should always be trusted - and "trust" here means "trust El to save the day without killing herself". even though I trust it's been explained to her that that's classic El behavior.

she presents her case to Nancy and Jonathan, but a fair trial for Mike goes out the window when only Nancy weighs in. yep, the Nancy who's fresh off her own war with Jonathan about workplace misogyny and how he should've trusted her about the rat story. so Nancy's ruling (while none of it is wrong) has a heavy bias in the same direction as Max's, and totally glosses over the valid aspects of what Mike's saying. lmao at the way Jon mutes himself for this discussion. she's never wrong, son.

El's agency and ability prevail as the only real issues among the loudest voices in the room - neither of whom share the trauma of already having witnessed El exercise both to sacrifice herself.

oh, but then look what happens as soon as El starts losing another fight:

at least some of that was denial, because it ends abruptly right here. Max doesn't need it anymore, because she has something way better: another chance.

I think if the sauna truly hadn't changed Max's mind about El, then Max would've done the same thing here (stood and watched). but she doesn't. this time when El gets overpowered fighting the flesh monster and almost gets yoinked, Max jumps in to help pull her back.

(this is how we can be sure Max's inaction with Billy and the FM wasn't merely a freeze response. "I imagine myself running to you, pulling you away" - they showed her able and willing to do exactly that for El)

this is a huge step. but still, the anti-Lucas-fireworks stuff happens even after this. (she's a work in progress, okay?)

in fairness, El's powers are the more effective approach. she still has them here, and nobody foresees her losing them over a leg injury. if all had gone as expected, El would've probably done the heavy lifting in another FM fight at the mall. Max doesn't have to be so dismissive of conventional backup plans, but she's not wrong-wrong about this particular one, either: fireworks don't kill the FM. they're an invaluable distraction, yes, but not fatal.

by this point, Max understands now that El needs help/protection even though she has powers, but still places her faith in those powers above all else to handle the supernatural fighting. which I'd call a fairly reasonable, if sucks-to-be-El assessment.

more progress is made when El loses her powers:

this little piece of action is sooooo tasty as a bookend to the sauna scene.

this time, Max doesn't wait to see how the fight goes and then jump in for backup if needed. she takes the defensive lead this time, stepping out in front. none of these three have the physical strength to beat Billy, so she figures that as Billy's stepsister, the responsibility falls to her to try to stop him a different way. doesn't work even a little bit, but, credit for the effort to defend. (Mike too, full credit for trying)

s4 Max on El's power loss

we don't know of anything Max ever said TO El regarding her power loss. but during her curse era in season 4 she's still out there wishing for El to get her powers back.

this line was a rock in my shoe for awhile because I thought Max should've grown past the solo-hero-El mindset after s3. I wish the burden wasn't always on El, and I'd like to see Max express that too, and spend more time helping think of conventional solutions instead of just relying on El's powers to save the day.

but actually I just misinterpreted the line.

she doesn't say this during the discussion about how they're gonna stop Vecna. this is specifically in reply to Nancy pointing out that they need to find a way into the UD in order to do that. so Max isn't saying she wishes El would come kill Vecna / rescue her / save the day, she's just saying she wishes El could poke a hole into the UD for them so they can do it. opening a portal is the part the kids really can't do on their own. shooting/stabbing a guy, sure.

once a gate presents itself, Max never wishes for El's help again. she volunteers as bait while the others kill Vecna, which is an entirely conventional solution.

so, this still fits a general trend away from regarding El as a solo/super hero. as always, Max looks to El for the stuff that can only be accomplished with superpowers; what's really changing is that her perception of "things that can be accomplished without superpowers" is expanding. s3 to s4 shows an enormous decrease in her reliance on El for supernatural battle.

ooh but the final step (so far) is my favorite

Max really no longer expects El to solo, even when she shows up with powers and gives explicit instructions to let her solo. ("stay back" -> so, "just stand there and watch"? mm tasty)

Max does listen, initially, but when things go south, she tries to stab Vecna in El's defense (or more realistically, tries to distract him for a second).

the interesting piece of character growth here is not that Max tries to protect El even though El has powers. that's not new.

it's the implications of Max growing past volunteering her protection unasked, all the way to insisting on protecting El even after she said not to.

a very interesting choice from little miss trust-El-who's-saved-the-world-twice.

[Regina George voice:] so you agree? it is possible for El to overestimate her own limits? and her decisions should sometimes be challenged or overridden for her own protection?

like. Max and Mike are the only ones El has ever "stay back"ed. I mean, she's fought for everybody, but they're the only two people she's ever explicitly, individually, fought instead of. are we seeing it?

are we seeing how Mike's feelings in that s3 argument had a lot to do with watching El fight the demogorgon after keeping him back for his own protection - and that the instant Max has the vaguely-equivalent experience of watching El fight Vecna after keeping her back for her own protection, her actions get a bit more Mikey?

where will this go in s5?

unless we get an amnesia plot, s5 Max ought to have a specific brand of El-loss trauma very similar to Mike's, considering she most likely died thinking El had already been killed trying to protect her. (I'm 100% sure she never saw and 90% sure she never heard El in the mind lair with her so it probably looked like she was dead or at very least "gone")

seems very safe to say s5 will require El to endanger herself in order to save Max, and I'm very eager to see how this arc plays out in terms of Max's reaction to that (will we get a scene where Max actually tries to dissuade her?) and whether we'll get any kind of madwheeler handshake type moment about that.

I'm not saying Max and Mike will or should reach equilibrium in the end, but I am enjoying that they've both ended up sliding towards the middle ground since their argument. Mike has learned to better respect El's agency and independence, and now Max has learned that sometimes she too prioritizes El's safety.

so! Max starts out all starry-eyed over El, thinking superpowers are the solution to everything, only to become more and more inclined to help and protect the girl she originally thought of as a superhero. can't tell you how much I love this progression.

.

now let's talk about Mike

unlike Max, Mike never expected El to be invincible or save the day all on her own. it might have a lot to do with first impressions (which looks like she needs taking care of: the rainsoaked nonverbal child lost in the woods, or the MTV punk who just hurled a monster through the window?)

Mike does encourage El to use her powers to find Will (after she volunteers her ability and willingness), but just the void-searching, screwing-with-electronics type stuff. he never encourages her towards telekinetic battle; she does all that unasked. he never expects her to fight for them in any way that seems to seriously endanger her. in fact, he makes effort to protect her at those times.

season 2, he worries for El when she goes off to the lab to close the gate, in contrast to Max figuring she can take care of herself. Mike formulates the plan to draw away the demodogs to make it safer for her.

season 3 is the big argument where Mike's seemingly the only one concerned for El's safety, accusing everyone of being careless with El's powers and treating her like a machine. (intriguing that the actual word "superhero" wasn't invoked in this scene)

although Max makes valid points in this argument, bias from her trust issues causes her to take her points a bit too far. the same thing is going on with Mike. he makes valid points, but has bigtime loss issues that cause him to err in the other direction (arguing El is risking her life "for no reason" when literally the world is at stake).

in fact, throughout the series, his concern for El's safety looks chiefly motivated by his own fear of loss.

"I don't want her to die looking for the flayed"

oh boy does that line tell us a lot. he says "looking for". not "fighting". y'all see the size of the can of worms?

Mike worries about her dying not in combat to save the day, but from searching the void for too long and dying from strain of power overuse. which raises the question:

if Mike is worried about power strain... shouldn't it have been a concern when she had to close the gate last year, which was 1000x more strenuous?

El's battery-drainage has been common knowledge since s1, so either:

s2 Mike didn't realize closing the gate would take lots of power (doesn't make sense; Hopper told them the gate had gotten huge), OR

is there some reason Mike would've become even more El-loss-motivated by 3 than he was in 2, even though he got to "keep" El at the end of 2?

yes! the reason is Will.

in s2, Will was in jeopardy. Mike's response to the El-gate-closing plan wasn't "oh no, El, don't! you might die or get brain damage!" it's "okaycool but let's make sure Will is safe first." when he does fret for El's safety, he specifies that it's the demodogs he's worried about. he makes no mention of power strain.

in s3 the world is at stake again, but suddenly now Mike is all "oh nooo we can't let El strain herself" regarding a comparatively extremely-low-power-intensity task (plus El is older and presumably stronger since s2). the key variable is that this time, Will is fine.

Mike has always cared about El's safety, but back when Will was at stake, he was able to overlook power strain on her as regrettable but necessary. right now, with Will's safety a non-issue, Mike is free to make El's safety his top concern, even to the point of judging all the others for acting basically like he did in s2. priorities.

anyway, back to the greater subject:

none of his behavior in the first few seasons looks much like the way someone would treat a superhero.

if Mike has always understood that El needs help and protection, why does he get all superhero-y about her by season 4?

has he grown increasingly awed by her powers as they've strengthened? is Mike's arc the inverse of Max's, with him regarding El as more of a superhero over time? I don't think that's it.

I think framing this the same way for Mike as for Max is wrong, and misses what's really neat about this contrast.

we have to think about why each of them liken El to a superhero in the first place. it's not for the same reasons.

Mike and Max admire different qualities in their favorite superheroes.

Max superhero name drop: Wonder Woman Max is a girl from a broken home who's felt abandoned, rejected, or abused by every male figure in her life, so we can see the obvious appeal in a strong, independent super-woman. (isn't WW's Lasso of Truth also just what a girl with trust issues would want?)

things like relative invincibility (I know WW isn't literally invincible but like, compared to a regular person), female independence, and ability to defend herself (esp from men) are defining superhero qualities to Max because they're a mix of what she has to be, and what she wishes she could be. she probably imagines that if she were WW, she wouldn't have to worry about anyone or anything that's making her life suck the way it does. WW is MM upside down. coincidence????? (yes)

that's what Max thought El was, early on, hence genuinely thinking El could take care of herself in the sauna.

so does Max just stop thinking of El as a superhero? not necessarily in every sense. right around the time Max is letting go of those preconceptions, another El-WW commonality becomes evident: El helps save the world not with superpowers, but with compassion for Billy.

a mainstay of the Wonder Woman character is the dichotomy of her dominant force aspect and her nurturing humanity: her overwhelming belief in love, empathy, compassion, and having a strong conscience.

I'm not sure whether to think El told anybody how she got through to Billy at the end. but if Max does know, then there are still Wonder Womanly things for her to admire about El's actual character, even if she doesn't think of her as a superhero anymore in the defining sense.

Mike superhero name drop: Superman invincibility is more of a Superman thing, but not one I see evidence that Mike esteems in Supes, wishes for himself, or expects from El.

the qualities I figure Mike admires in Superman are evidenced by the ones that reflect in his own character: things like loyalty, protectiveness, strong sense of justice. nobody thinks his powers aren't cool, but I sense the real allure for Mike is the way Superman uses those powers for good. that's how Mike would use powers if he had any.

I think such qualities are also what he likes about El. I'm giving him a huge benefit of doubt here, because he hasn't made this clear textually. but in the monologue, I see now how he's calling her a superhero for her character, not her actual powers. he admires her for her loyalty to her friends, her commitment to fighting for good, her constant choice of love over hate - all that jazz. stuff that really does apply with or without her powers.

Mike superhero name drop: X-Men when Lucas says El is a "weirdo, not a superhero" Mike doesn't deny her weirdo-ness, he defends it, in other words saying someone can be both.

the X-Men are outcasts due to genetic mutations, so their appeal is obvious among a group of nerds who are bullied and called freaks over a variety of prejudices. through an X-Men lens, Mike can find strength in the discrimination and struggle to fit in which the party faces in real life.

this all applies to El too, who faces definite struggles from not fitting in, getting bullied and called a freak as well.

two indicators that Mike meant it specifically in an X-Men way when he called El a superhero during their fight:

one: this conversation started with her talking about how she is different, doesn't belong, and everyone thinks she's a monster.

two, Mike's word choice. he's already referenced his bullying, but his use of "mouth breather," a s1 throwback word referring to Troy ("I was tripped by this mouth breather Troy") links his thought process back to the X-Men conversation specifically (which took place on the heels of Troy bullying the party).

Mike didn't call her a superhero like "they don't have telekinesis and you do, so you rule and they drool!" he meant "yes you are different from everybody else, and I know that sucks a lot of the time, but the way you use your unique qualities to fight evil is what makes you awesome, like the X-Men!"

Mike superhero name drop: Mister Fantastic

the first person whose superpowers Mike praises isn't El. it's Dustin! he thinks the hyper-flexibility Dustin gets bullied for is cool, kind of like the stretching powers of Mister Fantastic.

I don't know Mister Fantastic so I had to look up what his deal is, and was intrigued to find this:

.. although his cosmic ray powers are primarily stretching abilities, his presence on the Fantastic Four team is defined by his scientific acumen, as he is officially acknowledged as the smartest man in the Marvel Universe.

rather reminiscent of Dustin, the genius child who's always explaining magnets and the plot to everyone else? looks like his "superpower" is not the only reason Mike likens Dustin to Mister Fantastic. just like El's isn't the only reason he likens her to Superman.

anyway, Mike thinking of El as a superhero isn't the problem per se. the problem is him never articulating that he doesn't mean it in the hurtful way

Mike's had two big scenes where he REALLY needed to make this clear to El, and didn't (if I'm even on the right track here).

El doesn't know jack about superheroes except that they have powers, so when Mike calls her that, she has no idea he could be referring to anything other than her powers. you can't tell me she ever read a comic for him or listened to him talk about Superman. I can't remember El ever even politely feigning interest in Mike's interests.

the only time she's ever listened to anyone lore dump about superheroes was Max about Wonder Woman, and if my above reading is accurate, early s3 Max probably focused on superpowers more than character.

the closest we ever came to E listening to Mike talk about a "superhero" he likes is:

it's not like he extolled Yoda's bravery or anything. just telekinesis. so it's little wonder what her takeaway is here. all she has to go by is what he says out loud.

and when Mike reassures her, unprompted, that she'll get her powers back at the end of s3, it just reinforces her notion that telekinesis is really important to him.

when actually, I think Mike just says that because it's important to her. she's lost a part of herself and he wants her to feel whole. (whether El truly wants her powers back for her own sake or because she fears she's not valuable to others without them is another conversation - point here is, Mike saw her try, fail, and look upset about it, so he reassures her.)

ps, I do like how reaching that teddy bear for her serves as a micro illustration of the way he's willing to help reach goals in conventional ways instead of relying on her powers.

but yeah, again, clearly she thinks he means her powers when he calls her a superhero and she answers "not anymore".

which leads to a question I've yelled at the tv more than once: why didn't he just clarify as soon as El said "not anymore"? this whole thing could've been nipped in the bud?

I think he doesn't even realize the miscommunication.

his intent with the superhero "compliment" might just be so obvious to him that he doesn't realize it needs clarification for her.

"but how could he miss the miscommunication? what else than her lost powers could she mean by "not anymore"?" maybe Mike thinks she DOES already understand that he means the superhero thing in terms of admirable character. so, when she says "not anymore", maybe he thinks she's referring not to her lost powers, but to her lost standing in his eyes since hitting Angela?

I've pondered before about how maybe Mike's admiration of El's Supermanly "unwavering moral code" is why he was so upset that it apparently wavered after Rinkomania.

he didn't say anything to clarify after "not anymore" because he is still sorting out those feelings.

I'm not sure Mike realizes even after the "I have gone to become a superhero again" note (which he reads after finding out El is in training to get her powers back).

his reaction to the note isn't "oh no, I didn't mean superhero like that!" but rather seems all about his regret about El leaving him behind as a result of his failure to force an "I love you". (ah, the old fear of loss disguised as romantic love again)

I don't believe he'd fail to apologize/clarify if he realized the way that this hurt El. he can be an ass, he can be stupid, but he does reliably own up to his mistakes and apologize.

I used to think the "with/without your powers" line in the monologue meant he was aware of the miscommunication, and was trying to clarify. but he did such a bad job clarifying that it makes a lot more sense if he actually still hasn't clocked the issue at all. I gotta think he couldn't have been dumb enough to say the superhero thing again unless he still didn't get how it was hurtful in the first place.

he does have El on a pedestal. it's just not because of her powers.

the monologue is largely selfish, and doesn't land well for El, but it's not the worship-of-superpowers Mike is so often accused of. he's locked onto the "I love you" thing, caught up in his own fear of loss, and completely missing the optics for her.

the superhero thing can be cleared up with a single conversation. the true underlying issue, which would still persist, is this "extraordinary vs. ordinary" dynamic in his mind which isn't serving either of them well. he's got low self esteem from viewing himself as some useless loser compared to her; and the last thing she wants is another guy considering her extraordinary, which has been a horrific liability all her life, and she just wants normalcy.

reason #7519 why 🦴.

in conclusion: Mike and Max having different Super-El arcs is the good arc for both of them

as Max sees El needing protection, she comes to realize that powers don't grant the kind of freedom/safety that she daydreamed would go along with being a superhero in real life. so for Max to decreasingly regard El as a superhero is a positive thing.

as Mike sees El continue to loyally fight against ever-greater forces of evil and the social struggles that come with her uniqueness, he continues to admire the same qualities in her that define his favorite superheroes. so for Mike to still/increasingly regard El as a superhero is a... well-intentioned, potentially positive thing. (it can be, if he takes her off the pedestal and explains this in a way she can understand.)