#the plot was real confusing by that point

[maxknightley]

people are likening the last one to the plot of Monsters Inc. so I feel obligated to point some things out:

the "fear vs laughter" premise of monsters inc is part of a broader allegory about corporate greed at the expense of the health and well-being of the world at large. in particular, it's roughly analogous to the world's continued reliance on fossil fuels, which is due in part to fearmongering about nuclear power and wind farms.

a key element of the plot is that it's not just a matter of "the main characters don't want to subsist on fear, they want to be Niceys." the plot and characterization rely on sully and ESPECIALLY mike buying into the corporate line on human children, and thus going from "terrified" to "confused and intrigued" when it becomes apparent that human children are not actually dangerous

the result of all this is that "laugh power is just as feasible, and in fact more efficient" develops the themes and characters rather than shutting them down. if the premise of the movie were simply that sully and mike are Niceys to begin with, you lose the allegory, you have to rewrite the plot from scratch, and the characters - imo - become considerably less interesting, because you're robbing them of the tension between "maybe what I'm doing is wrong" and "I would like to have Money to Eat, not cause a mass panic, and not get thrown in jail or killed or written off as a crank"

attitude is a major element here. monsters inc isn't out here implying that the concept of monsters engendering fear/pain in order to harvest it is stupid. undertale isn't a game where "you're in a dungeon but everyone is friendly;" a pacifist run is a conscious decision that you make with people firing bullets at you. this one's a Twitter example, but - something like lovely lady rpg or clam man 2 isn't starting from the absurd premise that harry dubois and the setting he's in are Generic and therefore Uninteresting, only to tear them out and replace them with nothing of substance.

lastly, and imo this is key:

a short tumblr post is ill-suited for exploring ideas in any real detail, which tends to make it more annoying, not less.

more specifically: these posts rarely dive into the actual narrative implications of anything they're proposing, instead favoring vague gestures at pithy but underdeveloped ideas. there's a difference between saying "what if Indiana Jones didn't go on adventures lol" and "what if a normal, realistic archaeologist still got drawn into a pulp adventure and had to get by in spite of being terrified and under-equipped to deal with the situation." the latter would be A Story that engages with the genre, not just a cheap gag.

in conclusion:

there's a fascinating type of post on this site which boils down to "what if, instead of being cliché, such-and-such work of fiction instead dodged all genre tropes in a way that instead made it really boring"

[tsukii0002]

I wake up in the morning and the first thing I see is this 🙃

Damn, I... I don't know what to think, I'm furious, I'm sad and above all I'm confused. On the one hand (my more sympathetic side) I understand Solmare, they have lost the direction of their game and that has affected the quality of the story and to continue making more content for just doing it is better to stop...

Now then… What is going to happen with all the untied ends? Since nightbringer began, more unknowns have been opened than have been resolved. What is going to happen with Simeon? With the new power of Mc? Is that all we're going to get from Mephisto, Raphael and Thirteen? Considering that this season Thirteen is appearing between 0 and nothing…. We are not going to know about Michael, or the issue of the nobles house and Diavolo's father???? There are so many unresolved questions… Solomon's past, Thirteen's sister, Mephisto's little brother????

But what bothers me the most is…who the hell is nightbringer????!!!!! Why did we travel to the past? What is his goal with what purpose? ???? Are you telling me that in the rest of the season they're going to answer that question? Or are they going to leave it unanswered? If so, what was the point of making a new game, to gain time to develop the plot? Well, it hasn't been of much use…

Little more than a year after the release of a new game, they announce the end? I feel that the last seasons have been the preparation of the ground for the real story, and they have given us hardly anything, or maybe it's my fault for waiting too much… but they haven't really solved anything, we are exactly in the same place as when Om ended. I know that complain is useless, I know...

For my part I will continue writing about the game, drawing and expanding my universe, because now the story is in the hands of the fans, it has been for a long time already. I just, I don't know, I'm sad Obey is such an important part of me, it's the game I started sharing content for…. That this news feels like that part is being taken away from me. I hope you guys are well, sorry for this rant. And if you guys have anything to share, I'd be grateful to read it.

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[hotvintagepoll]

The Three Stooges (Turn Back the Clock, Meet the Baron)—They. Were. The. Blueprint. All scrungly guys who came after owe their "whoop whoop whoop woop!" to the Stooges [editor's note: the Three Stooges were submitted as a group but two of their members were also submitted separately, so I've condensed them into a unit and included the propaganda submitted for Larry and Shemp below the cut.]

Peter Lorre (The Maltese Falcon, Arsenic and Old Lace, Casablanca)—to me he DEFINES scrungle hes the first person i think of every time the term comes up! i want to fold him up like a paper accordion and put him in my pocket. guy that spawned a million voice artists and impersonators. they made a ghost version of him for halloween cereal staple boo berry. bewitched by his nervous mania and tooth gap <3 (for the purposes of propaganda im linking a photo from his extremely short appearance in muscle beach party bc ive been obsessed w it for years and i couldnt find any video for it :/ anyway imagine youre frankie avalon spending the whole movie battling a bodybuilder faction thats taking over your beach and your girl and then you find out this fucking guy is their mastermind mystery leader and hes stronger than all the bodybuilders combined. like Huh. What.)

This is round 2 of the contest. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. If you're confused on what a scrungle is, or any of the rules of the contest, click here.

[additional submitted propaganda + scrungly videos under the cut]

The Three Stooges:

The rest of the Stooges can pass as normalish guys, (until they open their mouths,) but between his trademark hair, very distinctive voice, and ridiculously reactive face, Larry is the Scrungly Stooge. If he isn't taking a slap, poke, or yank to the hair, he's flinching and twitching to some cartoonish violence along with the audience. And occasionally being an absolute one-liner lunatic that reaffirms why he's one of the Three Stooges. He gives off strong "Possum Spotted By Neighbors' Trash Cans" energy, but a chill possum, not one that's going to hiss or run away. A friendly possum that perhaps has limited survival instinct, but you admire him for his optimism. (Worth mentioning: In real life, Larry let Moe Howard handle most of the business aspects of The Three Stooges, because the one time Larry signed a contract by himself, it was to a completely different studio than his partners. He was also absolutely devoted to his wife, Mabel, having met her in vaudeville as teenagers. It was said that if Mabel wanted Chinese food in the middle of the night, Larry would go out and find some. Due in part to Mabel's dislike of housekeeping, and Larry either having a penchant for gambling or having very poor money-management, the Fines tended to live out of hotels. Regardless, when partner Curly suffered a career-ending stroke in the 40s, Larry still contributed part of his paycheck towards Curly's care. Spendthrift or not, Larry was a very generous soul to the end.)

Shemp is just the best at playing the curmudgeonly jackass and come on, who has a scrunglier face than he does?

[cw for disability slur]

Peter Lorre:

he's pretty much the archetype of the scrungly little guy. the blueprint. the example by which all other scrungly little guys are judged

The entire point of his iconic role in Casablanca (apart from introducing the central plot mcguffin) was to be LITTLE and SCRUNGLY to make Bogie look even cooler. And Maggot in Corpse Bride - the littlest scrungliest guy in that film - was a parody of him.

Between his big eyes, wheezy laugh, short stature, and expressive faces, Peter Lorre achieved icon status as the scrungliest, littlest guy in Hollywood. His scrungly little guy energy was often contrasted with the more typical masculinity of the leading man, but whether this contrast was meant to make him seem especially sinister, comedic, or pathetic, it always left an unforgettable impression!

The perfect sniveling character actor, “scrungly” is the first word that comes to mind when I think of him.

I'm sure somebody else has already submitted him (if not then ???) but he's a cute kind of scrungly little guy. He's got a distinctive nasal voice with an accent that is instantly recognizable and often imitated. His later horror movies are so much fun, especially when he's playing off of Vincent Price. He's so good at being unhinged, creepy, or manic, but also pathetic and sympathetic.

Classic scrungly hollywood golden age little guy who was friends with Humphrey Bogart and still played some of the wettest most sniveling characters ever committed to celluloid (complimentary) there is a deep despair and darkness in many of his characters that enhances his scrungly

To be clear, I am one of those people who will argue that Lorre is one of the most underrated film actors, but the POINT is that he's also just a scrungly delight. A delightfully pocket-sized man. Somehow endearing even when he is being actively amoral (see esp. Casablanca. "I found myself much more reasonable!") The faces he makes while doing the Russian cossack dance with a butter knife between his teeth in Silk Stockings make me laugh just thinking about them.

Wikipedia described his typical characters as "timidly devious", lots of weird little villains and evil sidekicks that are pretty horrifying but still manage to be sort of pathetic and the very definition of "poor little meow meow". His look and voice and mannerisms are so iconic they're still imitated

Cartoons for the next century have and will continue to include Peter Lorre-esque characters when needed to up the scrunge factor (see Bugs Bunny and so many more).

Youtube link for characters inspired by Lorre [editor's note: I'm not actually sure how many of these characters are directly, verifiably influenced by Peter Lorre, so take with a grain of salt. tw for suicide depiction.]

I think Arsenic and Old Lace is his quintessential "scrungly" performance. He's so put-upon and tired...all he wants is sleep and some schnapps! I love the way his shoulders fall slowly when he thinks he's caught (he looks like a sad puppy!), only to gleefully sprint out the door when he realizes how dumb those police officers are.

[musashi]

Musing on Movie!Nessa's Future in Part 2

A lot of people simultaneously expressing confusion alongside their celebration of Nessarose finally being played by a wheelchair user, because her being able to walk in act 2 is obviously a huge plot point--the spell cast on the shoes is what turns them into the ruby slippers which establishes the continuity and leads to a bunch of other plot threads, etc etc.

This is obviously the reason a lot of people give for her being played by an able-bodied actress in the past, it's obviously a bullshit reason because a huge majority of wheelchair users are ambulatory and can walk and stand for varying periods of time just fine. So like. They could have still had an ambulatory wheelchair user playing her, but I digress: the point is she is played by Marissa Bode in the movie. A wheelchair user, hurray!

These are just the opinions of someone who is not a wheelchair user so take them with a grain of salt (and please speak up if you have your own stuff to say as a member of the community!) but from what I can see as someone who's been insane about Wicked for about 15 years now, the movie did a lot of good for Nessa's character. Previously, the ableism toward her was baked into the metanarrative itself, but it's now been moved to a more realistic place--the characters within the story.

Previously Nessa was treated with little agency or autonomy not only by the characters but by the people writing the story. Most notably of all, her chair is constantly being grabbed and wheeled around by other characters. The movie corrects this--she is very rarely wheeled around except by her father (and he is called out for his coddling/infantilizing of her by Elphaba within 2 minutes of their introduction) and the one time a stranger tries to do this in what reads even to me as a genuinely traumatizing and far too familiar scene for any wheelchair user to have to sit through, Elphaba immediately fucking goes apeshit and starts throwing fucking furniture. Nessa herself also tries to advocate for herself and tell the professor in question to stop kidnapping/assaulting her and is, again, realistically not listened to.

This last bit obviously happens in the stage musical too but Nessa's own agency is much less pronounced. The movie adds little things here and there to give her more of that agency--Elphaba's protectiveness is much less "I have to help and watch over my poor disabled sister" and much more "I have to make sure no one underestimates or takes advantage of her." Even the plot detail that Elphaba was not there to be her caretaker but just to drop her off and make sure she got settled in her dorm adds leaps and bounds to Nessa's autonomy. Her and Boq's shared look in the opening ceremonies where they both bond beforehand at their inability to see over the crowds' standing ovation. And of course, the dance scene, where he no longer wheels her out but instead beckons her to follow him!

These little details add up in ways that are, at least in my opinion, very meaningful. They also extend to the production itself--where the sets were made accessible for Marissa and she was even allowed to do her own stunts, in her wheelchair! That part in the beginning where Elphaba levitates her was her in a harness in her fucking chair and all. Dope as FUCK.

So I am mentioning all of this because I think the people working on this movie have shown that they are unafraid to make changes to Nessa to be more respectful to her agency. The ableism she faces, which is still plentiful, is framed as such instead of just casually brushed off & baked into the narrative. By making these small changes, Nessa is not just an unfortunate stereotype of a disabled woman, but a real and fleshed-out person who is dealing with the consequences of those exact stereotypes in the society she lives in. I really liked that! I don't know how others feel about it, but I thought it was very well-shifted.

All that said, 'curing' your disabled character is obviously, like, the biggest no-no of writing a disabled character. And that plot beat is a huge one in every version of Wicked... so far. But here's the thing. We have a shot of Dorothy wearing the slippers. And they... are silver.

Why. Are they silver.

And they are silver in all of Dorothy's small little cameos. Every single one. Even though this shot, which was used primarily for promotional material to draw people in like "Hey! Wizord of Oz! This is What The Refrance!" did not make the choice to even suggest that they should ever be red. One of the most important pieces of iconography, consciously and notably absent.

I genuinely don't think Nessa's going to have her disability taken away in part 2. With how much love to this part of her has been done to the retooling of her character, I do not think it is a stretch to assume that they will find a way to advance the plot without removing her disability. I believe this because that is the right thing to do for Nessa, to ascend her character, however you feel about it--she should stay in her chair. She deserves to continue on the way she is.

I realize this little change effects a lot. But after seeing part one, I am confident they can do it and do it well and replace what the change takes away with something just as good. I have so much faith in the direction of these movies. I really, truly believe it will happen and it will be good and satisfying and perfect.

It might still happen, sure--Marissa might get a stunt double, or CGI, or some other brand of movie magic. The shoes may still get enchanted and stay silver to pay homage to the original Oz books. But I can't help but consider that idea and keep asking myself... why. That makes so much less sense. Why not give movie audiences the red slippers, draw them in with the imagery, give them one more lion cub in the bike basket or Boq talking about how much he cries or poppies putting the whole class to sleep. Why not give us the ruby slippers when you... could.

I think because this is going to be a big, long awaited improvement. And I think it is hiding there in plain sight.

[salbertwolf]

Sevika's Ending (But for real I don't think it's an Act 3 issue... It's an Act 2)

See, hindsight is a very powerful tool that helps us visualize when things should've been done differently. Hindsight is realizing I shouldn't have been a coward back in my early teens and should've gotten a headstart on youtube, alas we are here. Hindsight in this case, is judging the way act 3 of Arcane ended in relation to the show and where they went wrong, if they did.

I genuinely, genuinely loved the show, and like the ending, I think the conclusion of the characters makes sense with the way they were presented, despite my previous post regarding Sevika's ending maybe being interpreted as "Character assassination", it wasn't, I think taking a position of leadership inside of Zaun was what she needed. My post mainly came from the heartache taking that position must bring her, now with emptions more settled after episode 9, I wanted to touch on the fact that, for me, the issue with the conclusion wasn't an Act 3 problem, rather an Act 2, because Sevika's arc concludes in act 2.

Now, Wants vs Needs is something character arcs are usually based around, what your character wants is not necessarily what your character needs. In this case, Sevika's arc follows this structure pretty well, she does not want to be in a position of power, rather reserving her loyalties to someone she considers better fit to lead, this however comes to an issue as she, more often than not, is the only one willing to put her actions where her words are, she is calm, collected, and knows loyalties better than anyone, she exhibits qualities a leader should have, but the issue is that the attention of the world around her, much like our own, is taken by figures bigger than her, Vander, Silco, Jinx. This leads her to the logical conclusion of being the support rather than the spotlight.

Let us recall then the scene in episode 4 of Sevika rallying the Undercity residents by the Vander statue, this is a big moment in the story, and possibly the culmination of her arc, she has spent her life following, and now the latest person she tries to follow is unwilling to risk everything for their city, so she must step up.

This may look as a "She can't lead" moment, I would rather take it as a point of change of perspective for the people of the Undercity, of the fact that while a Symbol is necessary for hope, you can't let it dictate the capacity for fighting, that's why Isha shows up and lights the flare, are you willing to follow just the person? Or do you want to follow the ideal? And if you follow the ideal, does it matter the person that leads you if they know and respect that ideal? This is an important oment in Sevika's arc, the realization that she can do it, she can lead.

And that's why I find it a bit, confusing WHY we weren't given a scene of a conversation between her and Jinx regarding Jinx stepping down from a leadership position, as, pardon if I'm interpreting wrong, as the narrative clearly indicates by taking a detour to solve the Vanderwick plot.

What I'm proposing is basically a writer's scene (a scene that is really only for the writers to know, as what it does it take time that could be better spent elsewhere), but I think 1 moment with Sevika and the Firelights in episode 5, following the prison break, would solve the issue of not really getting WHY she would end up in the council.

In regards to her ending, why I consider it making a bit of sense, is that yes, Zaun did not become independent, and yes, she's in a position of many enemies, but treating her position as having no allies is ignoring the fact she's one of only 2 councilors in the room that chose to stay, I know in my ending break down I put it as forcing her to sit down and accept responsability, clearly that was not the intention for her arc.

I don't think a whole episode was needed to finish her arc, but definetly a scene, she needed a scene, one more scene.

But maybe it's just me, anyway-

[iwannascreameurekaa]

"if it's okay for poc to be cast as originally white characters then why can't we cast white people for poc characters"

Great question I have a wonderful answer for you

to start this is about a post I saw about Leah playing Annabeth Chase in the Percy Jackson show. Someone in the comment section was complaining about it and saying that they think a white person should be casted for Hazel if there's ever a live action heros of Olympus. This person claimed that if race has no meaning when casting a black perosn for Annabeth, then why would it matter for Hazel?

here's where this person is so incredibly wrong that it confuses me on what their brain is used for if not to make a complete thought. Hazels race was one of the most important things about her backstory

Hazel was a woc in there 1940s she went to a school for colored children. She legit experienced segregation. The whole reason that she had a connection to Leo is because she went to school with his grandfather sammy and the only reason she knew sammy was because of that school for colored children. Just that is enough to tell her that yes her race does in fact have a meaning and isn't something you should change

then the person in the comment section started talking about Frank.. then Leo and then piper. Basically they ranted on and on about any poc character

Let's start with Leo now. I'm bringing back the hazel point because again the only reason that he and Hazel had a funky connection at the beginning of moa is because of that school for colored children. Leo's Hispanic heritage is also important when concerning how his life with his mother was up till he died. One of the reasons he ran away from his aunts house was because she was religious and constantly called him the devil.

what about Frank? Well his Chinese heritage connected him to Poseidon which made him related to Percy which isn't massively important but you know it's a plot point so I see no point in getting rid of it

and piper? One of the first things we find out about piper is that she is bullied for being cherokee. The FIRST thing we see of piper interacting with characters besides Jason and Leo is her experiencing racism. It is insane that some people think that's just a thing that could be thrown away. Her Cherokee heritage also relates to her main character development in the trials of Apollo and lots of her "wisdom" is old cherokee stories her grandpa would tell her

and tell me one fucking moment in the series where Percy or Jason's race was important. Other than them being Greek/roman because they're all Greek and Roman so shut up

oh but since everyone's complaining about Annabeth being black in the show that must mean that her being white in the books is SOOOOO important

... it's not. In fact she's literally 1000x tanner than most of y'all depict her in the "canon" fanart so... yeah. And those of y'all saying "what about her being blonde that's her main character thing blah blah blah" I'm sorry is this the 2000s??? Blondes being dumb is a horribly outdated stereotype that is only ever used in a joking manner now back when the lightning thief was written in was a thing used against blonde women but now it isn't.

You know a certain group that is targeted and deemed dumb because of how they look? People of color, specifying black women.

Annabeth Chase being black is probably one of the best casting decisions ever, and I say this knowing that race wasn't the main thing when casting. Leah is the perfect person to play Annabeth and I will die on that hill. She has the script determination and the emotional range that makes her the perfect candidate for Annabeth.

If Annabeth Chase were real she would love Leah and she would hate you all for saying Leah isn't her.

Rant ended. Get your heads out of your asses before you say more racist shit.

[arcsin27]

Shuake brainrot so severe that for a brief moment I thought hellfire - yeah THAT hellfire - would be a good song for them

[silverskye13]

I know you don't remember calling me But I told you, even then you looked so pretty In a hospital bed I remember you said you were scared And so was I

The 30th -- Billie Eilish

[wintertundra-art]

I can't believe the amount of lore I have for my ocs compared to the main story which is like lots of events I have no idea how to link to each other

[completeoveranalysis]

[8]

Ok ok there’s a lot to unpack here

Firstly: the look Watanuki gives the phone when it starts to ring?

The most relatable thing of all. Any time the phone rings it’s an instant nightmare. No thank you. No calls ever.

Secondly: The stark contrast of black in white in the bottom panel? Like crossing boundaries and an inbetween place? Like a space between life and death? Gorgeous.

Thirdly: “You’ll meet many other people in many dreams. And it’ll seem like it’s the very last of parting ways.”

EXCUSE ME??? 

AM I READING THE IMPLICATION OF THAT CORRECTLY???

IS WATANUKI DEAD?

IS WATANUKI DYING?

IS HIS SOUL ON THE BRINK OF CROSSING OVER DUE TO THE DREAM SITUATION?

IS HE RUNNING OUT OF TIME?

IS THIS A NEW SITUATION?

HOW LONG HAS HE BEEN HERE?

WHICH CHAPTERS HAPPENED??

[alisaint]

i feel like sometimes (many times) people get realism / "if this were to happen to a real person in the real world context, then this character would experience and grapple with x, y, z" mixed up with text / what that character is actually going through in the story which is always going to be constrained by time, space, and the creator's biases and experiences

[tsubasaclones]

mostly i'm just wondering what last minute bullshit clear card will pull as its last hurrah

[cinnabeat]

re:mind costs 30 fucking dollars............

[starlit-mansion]

well so did the rest of us til 'a tale of 2 stans'

[nomairuins]

thank GODDD the doctor is taking time to work on himself maybe now he can stop ruining womens lives .

[tearlessrain]

please help me- i used to be pretty smart but i’m having so much trouble grasping the concept of diegetic vs non-diegetic bdsm!

gfkjldghfd okay first of all I'm sorry for the confusion, if you're not finding anything on the phrase it's because I made it up and absolutely nobody but me ever uses it, but I haven't found a better way to express what I'm trying to say so I keep using it. but now you've given me an excuse to ramble on about some shit that is only relevant to me and my deeply inefficient way of talking and by god I'm going to take it.

SO. the way diegetic and non-diegetic are normally used is to talk about music and sound design in movies/tv shows. in case you aren't familiar with that concept, here's a rundown:

diegetic sound is sound that happens within the world of the movie/show and can be acknowledged by the characters, like a song playing on the stereo during a driving scene, or sung on stage in Phantom of the Opera. it's also most other sounds that happen in a movie, like the sounds of traffic in a city scene, or a thunderclap, or a marching band passing by. or one of the three stock horse sounds they use in every movie with a horse in it even though horses don't really vocalize much in real life, but that's beside the point, the horse is supposed to be actually making that noise within the movie's world and the characters can hear it whinnying.

non-diegetic sound is any sound that doesn't exist in the world of the movie/show and can't be perceived by the characters. this includes things like laugh tracks and most soundtrack music. when Duel of Fates plays in Star Wars during the lightsaber fight for dramatic effect, that's non-diegetic. it exists to the audience, but the characters don't know their fight is being backed by sick ass music and, sadly, can't hear it.

the lines can get blurry between the two, you've probably seen the film trope where the clearly non-diegetic music in the title sequence fades out to the same music, now diegetic and playing from the character's car stereo. and then there are things like Phantom of the Opera as mentioned above, where the soundtrack is also part of the plot, but Phantom of the Opera does also have segments of non-diegetic music: the Phantom probably does not have an entire orchestra and some guy with an electric guitar hiding down in his sewer just waiting for someone to break into song, but both of those show up in the songs they sing down there.

now, on to how I apply this to bdsm in fiction.

if I'm referring to diegetic bdsm what I mean is that the bdsm is acknowledged for what it is in-world. the characters themselves are roleplaying whatever scenarios their scenes involve and are operating with knowledge of real life rules/safety practices. if there's cnc depicted, it will be apparent at some point, usually right away, that both characters actually are fully consenting and it's all just a planned scene, and you'll often see on-screen negotiation and aftercare, and elements of the story may involve the kink community wherever the characters are. Love and Leashes is a great example of this, 50 Shades and Bonding are terrible examples of this, but they all feature characters that know they're doing bdsm and are intentional about it.

if I'm talking about non-diegetic bdsm, I'm referring to a story that portrays certain kinks without the direct acknowledgement that the characters are doing bdsm. this would be something like Captive Prince, or Phantom of the Opera again, or the vast majority of bodice ripper type stories where an innocent woman is kidnapped by a pirate king or something and totally doesn't want to be ravished but then it turns out he's so cool and sexy and good at ravishing that she decides she's into it and becomes his pirate consort or whatever it is that happens at the end of those books. the characters don't know they're playing out a cnc or D/s fantasy, and in-universe it's often straight up noncon or dubcon rather than cnc at all. the thing about entirely non-diegetic bdsm is that it's almost always Problematic™ in some way if you're not willing to meet the story where it's at, but as long as you're not judging it by the standards of diegetic bdsm, it's just providing the reader the same thing that a partner in a scene would: the illusion of whatever risk or taboo floats your boat, sometimes to extremes that can't be replicated in real life due to safety, practicality, physics, the law, vampires not being real, etc. it's consensual by default because it's already pretend; the characters are vehicles for the story and not actually people who can be hurt, and the reader chose to pick up the book and is aware that nothing in it is real, so it's all good.

this difference is where people tend to get hung up in the discourse, from what I've observed. which is why I started using this phrasing, because I think it's very crucial to be able to differentiate which one you're talking about if you try to have a conversation with someone about the portrayal of bdsm in media. it would also, frankly, be useful for tagging, because sometimes when you're in the mood for non-diegetic bodice ripper shit you'd call the police over in real life, it can get really annoying to read paragraphs of negotiation and check-ins that break the illusion of the scene and so on, and the opposite can be jarring too.

it's very possible to blur these together the same way Phantom of the Opera blurs its diegetic and non-diegetic music as well. this leaves you even more open to being misunderstood by people reading in bad faith, but it can also be really fun to play with. @not-poignant writes fantastic fanfic, novels, and original serials on ao3 that pull this off really well, if you're okay with some dark shit in your fiction I would highly recommend their work. some of it does get really fucking dark in places though, just like. be advised. read the tags and all that.

but yeah, spontaneous writer plug aside, that's what I mean.