#the other ones have neat stories :)

[silverwhittlingknife]

hi Silver! o/ because that fanart made me wonder - would you happen to know when/where Dick's stuffed elephant plush Zitka turns up in the comics?

GREETINGS CAM <3333 THAT ART WAS SO CUTE

Yeah, I think your instincts are right - it's a truly adorable bit of transformative fandom, but I'm 95% percent sure it's not comics canon. Barbara has canon plushies, but I don't think anyone else does.

I got kinda invested in the investigation (it's hard to prove a negative!) and I ended up typing out an entire History of Elinore/Zitka, so, uh, if you're curious, meet me below the cut for:

Where does Elinore / Zitka - the animal - appear in comics?

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

Where does Elinore / Zitka appear in comics?

We're gonna go in chronological order!

Dick's circus elephant friend was first created for practical reasons: in Batman 436, Marv Wolfman does a big expanded flashback to Dick's circus backstory as a way to subtly show us Tim before officially introducing him (so that we can have a technically-solvable mystery-of-Tim's-identity in LPoD). In this comic, there's an elephant named Elinore who loves Dick:

Aww. Such a cute elephant!

Batman 436 comes out in August 1989. New Titans 60 comes out a few months later, in November, and guess what? When Dick visits the circus, he is suddenly surprised by an unexpected blast from the past! It turns out that even though it's been years, Elinore still remembers him!

Here's the part where Elinore remembers Dick:

SUCH a cute elephant. I love her.

(Guess who else still remembers Dick even though it was so long ago. Guess which other character is about to be an unexpected blast from the past. Guess which character Elinore is directly paralleling guess guess guess sorry everything is about Dick and Tim in my mind but I can focus I swear)

Four years later, in 1993, Batman: The Animated Series retells Dick's origin story. They like and keep Wolfman's elephant, but they change her name to Zitka:

Wolfman doesn't return to the elephant beyond those two appearances, and a few years down the line, New Titans gets cancelled and Wolfman's not writing Dick anymore anyway. So the animal gets abandoned for a while, until Devin Grayson, a fan of both Wolfman and B:tAS, revives the Wolfman-era Titans team in JLA/Titans and then the ongoing series Titans 1999.

Grayson then brings back the elephant in a flashback to Dick's past in Titans 16 (Jun 2000), where she imports the B:tAS name. Sometimes I'm skeptical of TV-to-comics imports, but honestly, I endorse this one. You lose the alliteration, which is a shame, but IMO Zitka is a better elephant name than Elinore.

Here's Dick with the newly-christened Zitka in Titans 16:

Grayson also briefly references the elephant in Gotham Knights 20 and - in a final angsty callback - in Nightwing 88 (Feb 2004), where Zitka tries futilely to comfort Dick in the midst of his trauma conga line:

... And... honestly, I think that's it for comic appearances? The two Wolfman comics plus the three Grayson comics.

Both Wolfman and Grayson are writing multiple titles - Batman, New Titans, Titans, Gotham Knights, and Nightwing between the two of them, spanning a big chunk of Dick's post-Crisis canon - and both writers use the elephant for heartwarming moments of nostalgia, which means if you're doing a post-Crisis readthrough for Dick, Elinore/Zitka feels memorable. But I don't think she actually shows up that much.

For post-2011, I am not as well-informed - throwing this out to the dash? anyone know? - but I feel like Zitka the heartwarming symbol of Dick's heartwarming circus past is, uh, thematically very at odds with the Court of Owls evil!circus vibes, so my instinct is that this story element was almost certainly dropped in the reboot.

Did Dick ever have a stuffed elephant toy in comics?

In WFA, yes; in main comics continuity, no. Technically, I have not read every comic ever published, so I could be wrong!! But I don't think so.

Below, find my rambling reasoning on the tonal vibes of pre-Crisis, post-Crisis, and post-2011, and why this particular story element doesn't seem right to me for the first two.

Pre-Crisis (...okay, mostly the Silver Age): stuffed animal, yes or no?

tl;dr no, requires too much background knowledge on the part of the reader, plus the elephant wasn't a thing until later

Elinore doesn't get created until post-Crisis, but also just generally, pre-Crisis callbacks are more along the lines of this reference in Batman 129 (published in 1960), where, wow, Batman and Robin are hunting jewel thieves - and it turns out Robin recognized this strongman! BUT HOW?!

The comic goes on to recap Dick's entire origin story in flashback, on the assumption that you may not know it.

(BTW, if you'd like to know more about Haly's Circus throughout the years, nightwingology has a great post here summarizing a lot of fun plotlines and characters!)

Basically: Silver Age comics are very self-consciously episodic and kid-friendly; they're not generally gonna do overly-elaborate callbacks because they don't know what comics their kid readers may have randomly picked up or remember.

By the time of post-Crisis, comic books were being written for an adult audience buying from the direct market, i.e. readers who are collecting whole runs & don't need or want Dick's origin story to be recapped to us in full every time it's referenced. That's why in post-Crisis, we get stuff like "hey, neat, this particular soda brand is getting mentioned in several different books!!" or "in order to understand this story arc, buy SIXTEEN DIFFERENT COMICS in FIVE DIFFERENT RUNS and read them ALL ACCORDING TO A NUMBERED ORDER and also you better be following the individual plotlines and recognize these five minor characters who we don't bother to introduce!! Good luck!!" But the elaborate post-Crisis plotlines - and subtler worldbuilding like a stuffed animal callback to Dick's backstory - don't make a lot of story sense UNLESS you're imagining your readers as completionist adult fans.

So IMO a stuffed animal wouldn't be a pre-Crisis thing unless it was The Episodic Story Of the Week, and I don't think a stuffed animal is action-adventure-y enough for the fast-paced storytelling of the Silver Age. (Unless it, like, came to life and tried to eat you or something.)

Post-Crisis: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr: no, Dick's a manly tough guy, he's not gonna have a stuffed animal, that'd be lame, like something Tim might do

Part of the edgy grimdark adult vibes in 80s/90s comics is that some characters who used to be kinda silly & goofy & lighthearted - like Batman and Robin - get reimagined as Serious and Angsty and Edgy in a Tough Cool Manly Brooding Way. This massively affects characterization for Bruce, Dick, and Bruce and Dick's relationship.

(I obviously love this change & love the tense Bruce-and-Dick interactions, but plenty of fans of the earlier fluffy comics really disliked the edgy retcons of Miller / Wolfman / Starlin / et al.)

The upshot is that post-Crisis is a period when you could have a recurring reference like a stuffed elephant, but you wouldn't have a stuffed elephant, not for Dick. I think a toy like that would be too cutesy / childish / effeminate to give a male character in post-Crisis, unless you were poking fun at him.

Now, you could probably let Tim have a stuffed animal, because Tim is sometimes cool but also sometimes a tryhard loser who is faking being cool and not entirely pulling it off (see e.g. the Robin comic where he practices tough-guy faces in the mirror, or the Teen Titans comic where Conner discovers his cringy Enya CD, or when he's fanboying over Connor and it's awkward, etc etc.). A stuffed animal would be deeply embarrassing, and you'd have to be careful to compensate by having Tim do something cool afterward - but Tim's character concept allows for "he's kind of a loser sometimes."

But Dick isn't!! In post-Crisis, Dick's a tough / impressive / "cool guy" character, the kind of guy anyone would want to be, even in the flashbacks where he's Robin, and even in the stories where he's more lighthearted than angsty. It'd be kinda lame for Dick to have a stuffed elephant, so he wouldn't. I feel like Dick would be more likely to poke fun at it if someone had one, like when he's making fun of Wally for liking the Hardy Boys. Dick could have a Batman action figure, at most, and if he had one he would have it ironically.

Basically: in post-Crisis, a male character hugging a stuffed elephant feels more likely to be a punchline to me, not something poignant. (Even with Tim, Tim could have an embarrassing stuffed animal, but he couldn't hug it when sad - that's too far. Maybe Booster Gold might do this. Probably he wouldn't, but spiritually, he would. Sorry Booster ilu! <3)

Instead, Dick instinctively deals with his inner turmoil like the TORTURED ACTION HERO he is: by punching things and brooding and yelling and joining the mob and sleeping on rooftops and going on obsessive secret missions and acquiring Angsty Stubble!! Just like Batman!

(Technically I don't know if Bruce ever joined the mob but you know he would.)

Anyway as you know this is my favorite continuity and I am poking fun affectionately, but uh, yeah sdfsfdsfs. No stuffed animals.

Post-2011 / Infinite Frontier / Wayne Family Adventures: stuffed animals, yes or no?

tl;dr it's in WFA! Probably not anywhere else, but it could be.

Post-2011 stuff tends to be cutesier overall, most of all in the current Infinite Frontier era. So I don't feel like this would be tonally out-of-line with IF comics. Taylor tends to go for more meme-y references rather than fanfic references, though.

So the obvious best fit is WFA, which is aiming for a rough approximation of Silver Age family-friendly vibes - wholesome, episodic plots, Teaching Good Moral Lessons For The Youth, etc. - plus lots of Easter eggs for fanfic readers and some comic references.

And look, here we are:

Aww.

Whew - that's everything I could find!

Anyway as you can probably tell, I LOVE the elephant, so this was a very entertaining rabbit hole to go down, thank you <3

[caluupin]

Finished TGAAC around 2 1/2 weeks ago but only finished the doodles today. but still, here ya go!

[bonefall]

Super interested in how you plan to write Leopardfoot! I feel like both fanon and canon tend to make her into a sweet mom(tm) who’s super sad that Tigerstar is evil, very similar to how Goldenflower is usually treated. What’s her thoughts on Pinestar and him leaving? How did she influence Tigerstar? What are her political beliefs?

Society has progressed past the need for sad moms who stare tearily at their evil sons and boohoo about all the murder. It's MOTHER AGENCY TIME

BB!Leopardfoot was FEROCIOUS. Her father was the indominable Adderfang, and he taught her about the importance of honor and glory. When Tigerpaw was given to Thistleclaw as an apprentice, she was proud of it. It felt perfect to her-- that her father's apprentice was now her son's mentor.

For his brief rule, she supported Sunstar completely. It helped that he came after the disastrous and embarassing exit of Pinestar, which ruined the legacy that she wanted him to give her son. Pinestar was a damn coward and a codebreaker... and she assured Tigerkit that he was more HER son than his.

She even gives him a life, for Legacy, in defiance of StarClan

She was friends with Bluemoon for a time, but after ascending to StarClan, she learned about the Forget-me-nots.

This changed her opinion of her. Leopardfoot supports Thistle Law, STRONGLY so.

She supported THISTLECLAW when he tried to forcefully void the Queen’s Rights. If Bluemoon hadn't broken the code, then what did she have to hide?

She backed off when Thrushpelt leapt to her defense though, "She didn't reveal it because she doesn't love me are you happy now??"

Leopardfoot: *awkwardly turns away feeling like an asshole now, tea SPILLED, her friend's dirty laundry EXPOSED, thought she was crusading for the law but she just dug up drama*

Towards the end of Pinestar’s reign, he was getting exhausted. He wanted peace. Leopardfoot wanted kittens around that time, and figured that there was no better cat than the son of Oakstar, architect of the infamous Crusade Era.

If Pinestar had no children, a glorious bloodline would have died out. She wanted it for her kits. Pinestar agreed on the condition that he would be their Mi, which she happily accepted.

So when Pinestar left, she jumped into the nursery to take over and had to explain to her kits where their Mi went.

She drove it home to them that he abandoned everything, because his weakness took over. They would never be like him, she promised.

Mistkit died very young. Nightpaw made it to apprenticeship before she also succumbed. Tigerclaw remembers very well how hard it was to lose his sisters.

Leopardfoot herself was taken shortly before TPB, in Spottedleaf's Plague. Her death causes Tigerclaw to have a bit of a moment.

After the trial in Bluestar's Flowers, Leopardfoot leaves StarClan along with a bunch of other Thistle Law supporters, including Thistleclaw himself. She joins the BOTTE at the end of OotS, fighting to the end with her son.

She misses him a lot, and remains in the Dark Forest to the current arc. She chose her path; and has the dignity to walk it.

She does miss StarClan sometimes though, and will tell you stories about it if you ask.

In terms of demon friends, she's somewhere in the clique between the harsher and softer spirits.

She dislikes Morningstar, Cloudberry, and Ryewhisker on the softer end, and has come to resent Thistleclaw and Finchflight on the other, but likes Darkstripe, Leopardstar, and Silverhawk.

Gets along with a range of "mid" level demons.

In particular I imagine she hangs out with Darkstripe a lot. Taste test buddy, he asks her to try his experimental recipes because she's honest but not mean. One of the few Thistle Law supporting cats he hangs out with after the double-death of Tigerstar.

He calls her Lefty. Her official nickname is "Left" but he calls her Lefty.

(Clanmew: her name is Saorpwyyar. Others call her Saopr. He calls her Sapyy.)

Her mom and dad Swiftbreeze and Adderfang are here too, following Thistleclaw like she did, but she's been minimizing her contact with her dad. She feels like she is owed an apology somehow but also doesn't have the emotional intelligence to know that it's what she wants.

She just knows that she feels really bitter talking to him, and that's unpleasant.

She used to be VITRIOLIC with Pinestar, who is also here, even going after him physically when he chose to join in with the Dark Forest trainees. But now... honestly so much shit has happened, she just doesn't like seeing him. She wishes he wasn't here.

I write her being very dignified. She doesn't like to admit publically she was ever wrong and speaks with confidence, quietly backing off and not wanting to speak about her mistakes. She loves her children and her family, but explores the world in a very "self-centric" way, trusting her feelings and personal judgement over anything logical.

A reactionary sort of person, if that makes sense.

Her Land Mar has to develop over time because she is an ex-StarClan migrant (damned souls get theirs instantly after judgement), but it's called the Fence Cliff. It's a picket fence that blocks off a sheer drop, making a sharp turn down the cliff face and acting as a walkway. Follow the fence down the slope, and you can access the Dark Forest's town biome.

[fuckmeyer]

girl please, Charlie Swan is Team Werewolf and you know it

[rwby-confess]

Confession #166

[moongothic]

You know, I would love it if we could see Mihawk just. Get slightly fucked up by someone, have his sword stolen and watch him figure out how to fight with some random ass sword instead

I just think. It'd be neat.

Like we kinda know how The World's Greatest Swordsman fights with his itty bitty knife, we know what kind of damage he can do with his iconic Yoru

I just think it'd be fun to see him fight with a regular katana and try to get his stolen sword back or summin' IDK

[aregebidan]

Always thinking about a genre aware Maglor kidnapping the twins as a particularly self-destructive way of escaping the story he’s trapped in. I think he’d absolutely be the type of person to appreciate the supposed “poetic justice” of his “foster sons” eventually killing him—it would strike a nice balance between satisfying the “audience,” aka whatever part of him that believes it would be appropriate for him to have such a cruel end, and establishing that he wasn’t pure evil despite everything (the children he raised destroyed him = he had enough decency to raise them to be capable of striking him down).

Even if the twins’ own ideas about the concept of kinslaying would inhibit them from giving him a “clean end,” an absolute exit from the story, he spends his days during and after the War of Wrath secretly hoping for some kind of recompense from them. A singer views the world in terms of linear stories, requiring endings to give it meaning. He orphaned the twins and raised them to stand up for themselves, he taught them everything he knew, surely they will repay him by making him into a defeated villain and thus finally introducing some degree of fairness into his life-narrative? 

(But Elros could never confine himself to rules and conventions, and Elrond hasn’t spent years teaching himself to be a healer only to be trapped in the avenging-angel role that his captor/mentor has ascribed to him. The next time they meet, a sizeable part of his initial kindness stems from spite. Maglor took the twins because he was looking for a sufficiently poetic end. Elrond feels sorry for him, but he also adamantly refuses to give him any of the satisfaction.)

[trainingdummyrabbit]

in conclusion the most poignant thing about ruina is its running theme of Imperfection. imperfection, focused not on its flaws, but on the miracle of it existing to begin with. imperfection not as a failing, but as a triumph. its cracked, broken, deeply in need of repair-- but it's real and its ours and it exists. despite everything it exists and that enough is a relief beyond words, beyond expression. to present a toppled structure not as a conclusion, but an opportunity.

its the choice-- and the joy-- of looking forward, unflinchingly, and facing it. one step at a time.

[inksandpensblog]

inks, i get it now. a long time ago u were talking about how the sticks are not actually humans and how interesting it would be for a fic to explore the non-human and purely internet aspects of them rather than treating them as Digital Humans, Basically, and now im trying to do the same thing for cybertonians and explore the alien biology aspects of them but every fic ive read seems to want to treat them like cars

That’s rough, buddy.

I’m not familiar with cybertronians outside of a vague awareness that it’s what Transformers are, so I can’t really say any different than those fics because I legit don’t know enough about them to make informed statements, but oof I feel your pain. I imagine that it’s easy to simplify them down to just being glorified self-aware shifting car-robots (and even easier to imagine any human characters trying to do that in-universe), as far as how they work and their literal body mechanics, and it must be frustrating to see their potential go unexplored. If you wanna get into specific points feel free to educate me, if it’s anything like my gripe over the stick-fics then I’d love to be able to better commiserate with you.

[goldensunset]

Saw you in my notifs and I mentally went "maria...." in a shadow the hedgehog voice

ADGFGDJXBZJBSJDBDJSNSNN

[muninnhuginn]

just generally musing to myself what makes thematic and plot sense for the link clink ending after reading some other people's takes the past few days. no real conclusions here, just some thoughts tied together with a string.

I've seen arguments that what needs to happen is that Lu Guang needs to accept Cheng Xiaoshi's fate and move on without regrets. This idea that the past has to remain as-is and you have to move on is a thread that the show has played with quite a few times. It's written into the very rules underlying the dives. The most obvious instance being the earthquake arc, where Cheng Xiaoshi was unable to save Chen Xiao's mum, but he *was* able to deliver the messages and thereby help CX gain closure. It's laid out by Lu Guang that it *was* worth it to deliver the words, and Cheng Xiaoshi takes this conclusion with him when he confronts Emma. (Of course, the fact this lesson was given by *Lu Guang* casts a different shade over the whole affair. I don't think it can be entirely discarded, given LG even admits he's going against his own rules, but it reads more like something he's trying and failing to convince himself of.)

So, the past has to stay as it is. We see a few different approaches to this idea in s2 - of people refusing to move on and trying to change the past. Qian Jin wants to force his wife "not to cheat"; he wants to alter her behaviour because she didn't act as he wanted. Li Tianchen wanted to change how *he* acted back then, even if indirectly, because he sees himself as his mother's killer, and thinks this is the point at which his tragedy was locked into place. They both thought their 'tragedies' were down to a single event. It's not that simple.

Lu Guang wants to personally protect Cheng Xiaoshi by controlling all scenarios. Not exactly taking his will, but limiting his choices. There's probably a whole post to be made on how QJ/LTC/LG each approach the agency of the ones they want to protect, but that's not for now.

Anyway, Li Tianchen as the foil to Lu Guang. At the end of s2, he has in theory let go of Li Tianxi but in practice he's just burying himself deeper by following Liu Xiao. Trying to entirely shun the past so he can believe that he still has some element of control. Both LTC and LG are at the extreme ends of clinging on vs letting go and that means the correct answer has to lie somewhere in the middle. Not shunning the past, but accepting it, and using that resolve to move forward.

So, Liu Xiao. We don't have much on him but what we do have is his belief that uncertainties should become certainties. He's deterministic and set explicitly as the counter to Lu Guang, whose own aim is to change events rather than lock them into place. They both want to *control* all aspects, but for differing reasons. In fate vs free will, it makes sense that our protagonist is on the side of free will, but it's interesting that he's presented himself so much as the opposite previously. He and CXS haven't exactly switched places, but to the audience, they've definitely taken on traits of the other.

Liu Xiao's whole spiel about how all options will eventually lead to the same outcomes, with him set *against* Lu Guang, very much seems like it's a setup for a "defeat fate" type plotline though. It's hammered in that there is no escape, no other option. Are we expected to accept this? It doesn't seem so. It's something I'm struggling to reconcile somewhat with the earlier messages about accepting the past, but maybe that's not quite it. Maybe it's about control vs freedom?

Trust fall. Every dive with LG and CXS is an act of mutual trust where they need to act in tandem. Dives go astray when one party acts without the other. For CXS, this is about him acting against LG's instructions (texting Emma's parents, staying in the earthquake dive). For LG, this is about him withholding info because he doesn't trust how CXS will react.

Lu Guang needs to put his trust in CXS before his withholding of information creates an unresolvable rift. He needs to stop trying to control CXS in order to keep him safe. We saw how that spun out for Li Tianchen and Li Tianxi. LG needs to put the choice into Cheng Xiaoshi's hands and let him decide his own fate. It reminds me of how Cheng Xiaoshi laid everything out for Emma and let her decide whether to live. It was only outside interference that prevented her, but she did make the choice to survive. And she did it by remembering those small moments. By accepting that tragedy happens but there are still people that make it worth it.

For LG and CXS, they need to mutually trust each other and that's how they'll find their way through.

[mabaris]

i will also say it’s pretty cool how many companions come with a backstory?? like fully half of them have already appeared in other stuff before the game is out, so you get the chance to like. go in knowing things about these folks already

[inkats]

merry yaoimas mutuals. (in order, for @starredforlife, @vampyr-bats, maymerdoodle on insta, @littlemoondarling, @bmpmp3) (all of you make such cool stuff I hope you like em <3)

[karaspal]

don’t be fooled by my undying love for kara danvers, i hated like, half of the decisions the writers made regarding the show’s lore. i find kara to be one for the few characters who actually got better as the show progressed (which is how character development works). she started out more shy and grew into a confident, capable and a well-respected woman. she made some real change and helped a lot of people outside of her superhero suit. the show had a great balance between kara danvers and supergirl. my love is for her story and character development, and her story and character development only. oh, and alex and j’onn! they were pretty neat too!

[supersecretnerd]

Ok so these designs are cute as hell, the Internet is just mean

I have too many thoughts about a game I still need to watch

[not-poignant]

Hi. Why is Efnicien worried that people might think his surgery scar looks like an omega scar? Omegas have a bite scar, not a surgery, and the bite scar is a different shape. And omega's scar is probably in a different place?

Hi anon,

TL;DR: The answers to all of these are in the story.

It sounds like in bringing your own assumptions into the story, you might have missed the repeated times Efnisien's surgical scar has been described as ugly, or described as being in the exact place omegas get bitten because it involved the removal of the Kaeper glands.

I've found five different places and quotes in the story that all talk about this but instead of listing them out one by one, I'm just going to say that it does literally say in the story that a very ugly scar with bumps, divots and textured patches, (so ugly that Temsen's new surgery looks like a neat little line over a much worse scar) is directly over the Kaeper glands. It is also described multiple times in the story that it is the Kaeper glands that need to be bitten to ensure a Claim, and for an omega to develop a proper omega scent. Crielle removing them means they're not there to bite, but also leaves a scar where an alpha would bite - so no, an omega's scar would never be in a different place, it literally has to be exactly where the surgical scar is, that was the whole point of the surgery.

This sounds circuitous because it is, and it feels like you may have skimmed a lot of sections of the story to miss this. That's fine! But it also means when you have questions, most of the time the answers will actually be in the story and you can just go check.

I don't know why you've assumed that all omega scars just look like a normal bite? They haven't been described this way in this series, but I don't know if you've read any of the other stories to know this. You can trust Efnisien when he says that it's bad enough that anyone who saw it would think he was a claimed omega. There's a reason no one says 'omg no they wouldn't! the scar wouldn't even be in that place! it doesn't even look like a bite!' - They agree with him. You can trust the story, anon.

Sometimes it can be best not to assume what's happening if it means you're missing parts of the story that would answer all of your questions. Esp if those details have been repeated across many chapters.

It's not unusual for omegaverse stories to show that abused omegas often have very ugly scars on the back of their neck due to being bitten multiple times, bitten violently, having the skin torn off the back of the neck, being mauled etc. That's not unique to the Underline universe. Efnisien's not wrong to be worried that the scarring could be mistaken - especially at a distance - as a bite scar. Even up close, it would look like a neat surgical scar potentially over a very messy bite scar.

I don't know or think you've read any of the other stories, but Underline the Gold also mentions an extremely ugly claiming/bite scar on the back of the neck for Flitmouse too.

No character in the Underline universe has ever been described as having a neat bite scar on the back of their neck when they've been Claimed!