#the original queerbaits

[gay-celestial-being]

the holy trinity

[maulfucker]

canon mlm rep is like "i like a boy..but im!?!? also a boy!? >-<??" meanwhile queerbaiting is like "you think you know me? it was I who languished for years thinking of nothing but you‚ nothing but this moment. and now... the perfect tool for my vengeance is in front of us. I never planned on killing you, but I will make you share my pain, Kenobi"

[giantkillerjack]

Me: I don't like when shows queerbait me.

Other Fans: Well then just watch other shows, dummy!!!!

Me: 👍👍👍 wow what a tidy way to dismiss and invalidate a legitimate reaction to homophobic story tropes! 👍👍👍

The "just leave then" response to people wanting more inclusivity from the stories they love is not just emotionally invalidating - it is also one of the things that keeps storytellers from feeling that they need to improve in the future by making fans feel stupid for demanding better representation in the first place.

This kind of response doesn't just make you sound like a conservative (since this is a VERY popular response that conservatives have when confronted with leftist media criticism), it also fundamentally ignores the fact that there may not BE an equivalent story with good rep to go to after leaving the queerbait-y one behind.

Delicious in Dungeon is special and unique; that's why I genuinely love it. It is that love that makes me want it to do better.

When I see that Shuro is allowed to openly express romantic love for Falin, but Marcille/Falin is relegated to mere implication, it makes me really sad. It may not be a romance manga, but there ARE straight couples, and hetero desire IS on display - which makes the lack of open queerness all the more noticeable.

So when people say "just go watch something else" in response to my genuine sadness and irritation that a beloved story is excluding people like me..... Are you telling me there's a nearly identical queer show - with a similarly active fandom - all about found family learning to cook beautiful foods in a dungeon? Is my favorite-guy-ever Senshi going to be there? Is there actually a place for me to go to??

OR is there only one Delicious in Dungeon, and that's what makes it great?

I think actually folks who respond this way just want me to leave, and they don't really care where I go, so long as their favorite thing doesn't have to stand up to criticism.

Because I don't want lesbian media elsewhere. I want it here, with my friend Marcille. Here, where the seeds of queer romance were purposely planted to hook my attention. What's so wrong with being disappointed if those seeds never grow to bear fruit??

We can like good art and still demand it does better. And we can validate people who are sad it isn't doing better without getting defensive. Critical analysis is healthy and important. It's how good and bad stories are fully understood, and it's how better stories get made.

And while I will try to enjoy the plentiful delicious crumbs I am being served (since it is more than most shows give me), just because I CAN squish a bunch of crumbs together into the approximate shape of a muffin, that doesn't mean I've been served a meal.

More on this topic because I love a good analogy

My original post about queerbaiting in Dungeon Meshi (that inspired this one with the replies I got from it)

[toxicroyjamie]

jamie fucks randos who look like roy in random seedy bars around england

Oh absolutely. He leaves a trail of older bearded men everywhere he goes.

But also it's not even funny...post-finale/Euros Jamie trying to get over Roy by fucking other guys all over the continent (because Roy probably hates him again now and he obviously misread everything and he's humiliated and Roy is definitely straight not to mention completely in love with Keeley blah blah blah whatever), but always being subconsciously (or maybe consciously idk) drawn to men who look and act like Roy, because he's loved Roy his entire life and he doesn't know who he is if he doesn't love Roy.

Just blindly fumbling for anything to fill the void Roy left in his soul and always always inevitably ending up back at wanting Roy. Roy Kent always remains

[juniorfor2]

Whatever the writers are planning on doing to eventually get a Rhaenyra/Daemon reconciliation, they really need to hurry it up.

Daemon at least finally seems to be at the climax/end of his arc, so it’s fairly easy to see how he’s going to be when it comes their reunion.

However, I have no clue how they are going to manage Rhaenyra’s character without shoving in development at absolute breakneck pace. Right now, she’s not at the climax/end of her arc - she still seems to be at the ‘rising action’ part. She’s still moving further and further away from Daemon, getting more frustrated with him.

Especially with the fast Mysaria romantic development and kiss - which I know is characterized as a one time thing but shouldn’t have even been developed in the first place if it doesn’t have an impact besides Rhaenyra being bisexual. They spent at least 3 scenes just with them talking and reassuring each other to bring that one development, and at least one of the scenes does essentially nothing to move the plot forward at all or truly develop the characters in a good way. I think the only good one was where they were, “moving the plan forward,” the rest looked liked it was plucked from a s7 Varys and Daenerys conversation.

I just don’t see how they are going to properly reconcile at the end without some weird, one-sided ‘only Daemon needs to apologize cause he’s everything wrong with the relationship.’ I know the writers are now in the habit of shoving characterization in without any good pacing, but this feels like the reconciliation isn’t actually going to be much of one.

[pdq88bkisser]

I don't go on moomin Tumblr anymore but I think you guys need to realize snufmin not becoming canon doesn't mean it was queerbait lmao

[chloroformcurry]

I keep over-rendering shit sorry. My favorite drawing here is the Sibyl on the side.

Cap would rather die than show any skin lol. But then again he wants to die so maybe he’d rather live than show any skin. Idk.

[daenystheedreamer]

the new era of queerbaiting isnt "good queer representation" its straight actors making their bit part characters gay in interviews in the hopes enough tumblrinas will convince the show writers to hire them for another season or just for attention sometimes

[imavikingo]

Everytime I look at Tumblr and see the tl I remember why I hate endgame with a passion you couldn't understand.

They fucked up Steve and Bucky so bad (yes, Bucky too bc suddenly he doesn't matter/isn't even a secondary character that deserves to be near Steve)

It's so funny to me (not) bc they talked about gay characters being in the movie at panels and interviews and even talked about Stucky at some point (basically queerbaiting) for then... Steve not even acknowledging Bucky. An awkward and impersonal hug doesn't cut it.

And Steve suddenly yearning and talking about Peggy? When he didn't even mourned her that bad and already had let her go ages ago? They knew they fucked up in CATWS with Steve and Buckys relationship, so they tried to distance them and then inserted Peggy bc ofc

(they possibly didn't have the time for a new character and they already had fucked up pairing Nat and Bruce and Wanda and Vision). Steve didn't have anyone else he cared about so they couldn't give him a new girlfriend. So they used Peggy AGAIN.

I'm not mad bc "Stucky not canon grr"

No.

I'm fucking pissed off because they did the worst character assassination and friendship assassination possible. Every movie of Cap America revolved around Steve saving Bucky at some point and him caring about him above all else, and you want me to believe that Steven Grant Rogers didn't care about him when Bucky died in front of his eyes? AGAIN? That Peggy's death was more important and impactful for him? If that was the case then why the fuck did he crash the plane then? If he cared so much about Peggy since forever?

No, that was just lazy writing and a way to reinforce Steve's sexuality "He can't be gay and you can't say that bc he LOVES PEGGY"(even tho he only kissed her once, even tho he crashed the plane and didn’t give her the coordinates, he didn't really care that much after all) they could have paired him with Nat in later movies, but they didn't.

That's why I only raise my eyebrows a lil when people say that x character will be gay canonically in a marvel movie/series. Is more than possible they won't. And if they are they're Deadpool, a secondary character no one cares about (obscure in lore too, so they can cut them off) or is plain queerbaiting again (because yes, even if you don’t see Steve and Bucky’s relationship as romantic, they DID QUEERBAIT IT)

Steve and Buckys relationship wasn't even written in a romantic way (you can ship them or not), but they tried so hard to rectify Steve's heterosexuality in endgame, that they fucked up their character arcs on purpose. And now they will always feel hollow and inconclusive. A bad taste in the mouth, a painful reminder of what it was and a what? 11 year long? characterization.

Idk man, I know I've talked about this more than three times, but omfg Tumblr reminds me why I hate that fucking movie!!! It's not my fault!!!

I know I'm going to end up writing something out of spite bc I can't take it shdkdjjcif

"It's been more than 4 years get over it" NEVER

Also the bit with Johnny Storm in Deadpool and Wolverine was also a dig (a fuck you if you will) to the fans bc Deadpool explicitly calls him Cap. And it implies that Steve as a character (not that old Steve nonsense) won't be back.

It's funny they've remade over and over again some movies (Fantastic 4, Spiderman) changed actors for characters (James/war machine, Bruce) and they include them in the multiverse/plot, but they won't do the same to some movies and some characters when they fuck up their stories, because they know if they do, they will have to acknowledge WHY they did it. Like with James/war machine changing actors.

So yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't care about Marvel anymore.

**I mean remake the movies ((Also they Can't remake Cap America bc that would mean they need to remake every important movie. And they don't have the time, the money nor the need. So that's why they decided to fuck their character arcs))

or include some characters in multiverse (they're going to do that with Tony/RDJ/Dr Doom after all, no?) and they also won't remake Cap bc the movies are amazing.

But the point stands. Steve couldn't be in DaW bc that would imply he's an alternative one or that Old!Steve was an alternative one or wasn't even Steve to begin with. But they couldn't do that ofc, no, bc that would give the fans hope in seeing Steve and Bucky together once again. So they did a dig at the fans bc "haha you thought it was Steve, but it's Johnny!"

Idk if I'm making sense at this point I'm tired af, need to sleep.

The thing is that they fucked up Steve Rogers's arc on purpose (Bucky's too, and others charas too tbh) and now they expect the fans to accept everything they give us with open arms. And imho I won't accept shit.

"Deadpool saved the MCU" how? If the other og characters are DEAD or they fucked them up too? Or are the butt of the joke now? Don't make me laugh. Most people don't gaf bout the new charas bc they only are presented in series not everyone watches (only available in one place) or are presented with characters that are dead now or as a replacement for the og characters. They aren't interesting on their own (not really, at least in mcu) and that's why most of the new stuff isn't liked as much. If they wanted to present more characters the opportunity passed already.

Also now if you want to watch and really understand 1 movie (if you don't read the comics too) you need to watch like 20 other movies and 5 shows. it's fucking exhausting.

[colombinna]

unfortunately i find myself once again engaging with a fandom for a children's media, because they have yuri in it and i'm extremely predictable

[shortscircuits]

beronica as a study of compulsory heterosexuality…how many times have they kissed, referred to each other as soulmates, killed for each other, nearly died for each other…remember when veronica kissed cheryl, or when betty had that gay flirtation with her co-worker…yet the text, the world they live in, still insists upon their heterosexuality. it doesnt matter what they do or say, riverdale imposes heterosexuality upon them. and right when they’re about to kiss, for real, not for a gimmick, with eye contact and bated breath, the plot interrupts them and keeps it from happening. beronica is just what it’s like to do gay shit over and over and have everyone around you still look at you as straight

[giantkillerjack]

Love Dungeon Meshi but utterly unimpressed by the lesbian themes until I see these bitches mouth-to-mouth kissing on purpose in a HOMOSEXUAL MANNER

Absolutely no props or honor for queer-baiting me in the year 2024.

I don't deserve to scrabble for crumbs, I deserve a FEAST!! - Senshi said so!!! I'm a growing dyke who needs a nutritious goddamn meal from my yuri!!!

That said, if it does end up being canonically gay, I'm rewatching the whole show 100 times and getting a tattoo about how much I like Dungeon Meshi

[deanwasalwaysbi]

Queer baiting originally referred to essentially catfishing entrapment to 'catch' gay people and prosecute them as criminals. In the modern era we've been using it to refer to a marketing tactic of teasing queer relationships or characters that are never actually portrayed.

What it does NOT refer to, is the free expression of real life individuals who do not owe anyone a public announcement of their sexual orientation or gender identity nor conformity with compulsory heterosexuality.

Remember - The number one rule to never drag irl people out of the closet. But beyond that, by claiming that real people are capable of 'queerbaiting', or that 'straight' people are 'not allowed' to do anything but conform, we would also be demanding that people never experiment with their clothing, never experiment with their sexuality, and never work out or evolve how they identify.

Don't force people to stay in the closet in the name of gay rights.

[menlove]

i will say this is possibly tHEEE funniest outcome to queerbait that ever could have happened. i literally never would have predicted this

it usually goes the route of. stays queerbait and the creators are eternally cagey about it OR another writer comes in years/decades later and makes it canon

but no. neilman spent DECADES refuting it and then pivoted to baiting when he realized the majority of show fans liked it. and then somehow some way decided to make it canon. and then said. i am going to poorly gaslight the shit out of every single person in this fandom. they have always been canon. i have never said otherwise. they were always meant to suck and fuck and terry and i personally came up with multiple scenes of them 69ing-

[to-junipterandmars]

I haven't finished the show but from the very beginning I've kept wondering why wilson sticks with house like he definitely has issues of his own but he clearly has no problem finding other friends and house is objectively speaking absolutely Terrible at being a friend. I love him but to me he's the fictional medical malpracticer who lives in my screens, not my asshole friend who's ruined my relationships including my marriages, so what's wilson's excuse?? no wonder they've been driving people insane with their relationship since the show started

[patchesofuniverse]

I found this in my drafts - I wrote it after I finished Leverage: Redemption S1 and then most of the original series. Posting it now with the caveat that I never got around to watching the rest of Leverage: Redemption so I do not know what happened from there.

----------

It still amazes me that people who've lived through

- Sherlock, where the creators outright deny that their two male leads could ever get together, while throwing out constant M/M fanservice.

- FIFTEEN seasons of Supernatural, where women can't survive for very long because they'd threaten the fan-preferred M/M pairings, and one of the actors for the pairing straight up denies that his character could even be gay, shot down questions about it, and finally just "didn't want to put him in a box" following an outcry near the very end of the series.

- She-who-shall-not-be-named, who never so much as hinted that any character might not be straight, but then declared one gay when the series was basically done.

- and however many more queerbaiting shows

can look at Leverage and think the creators are trying to pull one over on us.

- "That means I would be thinking about you and Parker, which I never do!" in the least convincing tone, after lamenting the suave thief Parker is out with that night.

- Watching them kiss and nodding

- "'til my dying day" and "but you never, never need anything" "Yeah, I did" looks over at Parker and Hardison for a moment before looking back "And thanks to you, I don’t have to search anymore."

- Confirmation from the creator that the OT3 is canon.

- "Even numbers only baby" and "Age of the geek, babe"

- The hints in the show (Hardison being aware of how Eliot wakes up, "we built vents in the house", etc) and then confirmation that the three of them live together.

- The necklaces

- Hardison talks to Eliot AND Parker before making the decision to step away from the team. Parker's scene is more dramatic, sure - but Hardison checks in with Eliot too, and Eliot confirms his support before Parker drags Hardison off for their chat.

They haven't given us a kiss or the exact words, sure. Polyamory still isn't widely accepted in the US - it's very possible that they can't give us a big flashy display on screen because of executive meddling, or just that they have to consider ratings.

But what they've given us is in line with the characters they've created. They also never make it into a joke, aside from Hardison's "We're together" bit in The 12 Steps Job (which was season one). They don't make flashy fanservice out of scenes with Hardison and Eliot together, or with the three of them.

The Leverage PTB haven't queerbaited us with the OT3. They queercoded them. And then confirmed that they intended the things we saw on screen.

Part of me wonders if the idea that the OT3 are queerbait is the fact that Eliot's relationship with Hardison and Parker is more subdued than their relationship with each other. I think there may be folks who want to see them as a perfect, exclusive triangle where they all share the exact same relationship style. But that's not how polyamorous relationships have to work - and indeed, it's not how most of them work. Parker and Eliot have always had a different kind of relationship than Parker and Hardison. It's not unreasonable to think that, even in a committed romantic threesome, the three sides of the triangle would represent different types of relationships.