#the only thing he says to lxc is 'jgy's killing intent.' that's it. at least in cql he leads him out of the temple and

[aoxue]

no but also 3chen 3zun and songxiao 💖💖💖

Ask game

Going in reverse order! 💖

Ship: SONGXIAO

Ship it? I am a songxiao fan first and a MDZS fan second

1) What made you ship it? Those like, two minutes in CQL where it is revealed that Xiao Xingchen dug out his eyes and gave them to Song Lan and then immediately proceeds to kill Song Lan. And then after, watching XXC kill himself and destroy his soul after learning what he's done to SL, and SL going off to care for and nurture what's left of him for the next eternity. It is peak drama out here for these men. Shakespeare kind of nonsense. It did take reading up on details from the novel, since CQL does miss out on some of the key details (as most of the adaptations do), for all the pieces to come together. But then after that, also reading a lot of fixit fic! I have been gone for them ever since

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? It's about the mutual love, trust, and respect. It's the terrible selflessness. It's the devotion that transcends death itself. It's about having your own life with your own tasks and motivations and morals, but being so lucky as to find another person who understands you and is in sync enough that you can walk your paths side by side and work together toward the dreams you create together. And yet it's also about literally losing pieces of yourself for the sake of another person. It's about horrific acts done out of love with only the best intentions at heart. It's the way none of this tragedy would have befallen them if they didn't care about each other so damn much. It's two very attractive and extremely competent and good-hearted men in the most yin/yang relationship I've ever seen. It's the purported universal touch aversion with one (1) special exception. (This is fanon, but I really love the explicit conversations about consent and boundaries that these two have in fic, even for something as simple as holding hands. Aspec songxiao, also a great flavor.) It's the watching, dumbfounded, as the guy you like splits his sides laughing at wuxia China's most mediocre joke. It's home being another person. It's A-Qing getting to have two dads. I could go on.

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have about this ship? As much as I think about these guys, probably multiple! I disagree when people say the relationship was weak to have fallen apart so easily, or when people vilify Song Lan for acting the way he did in the aftermath of the Baixue massacre. It's as if an outside entity carried out extreme acts of violence specifically tailored to ruin these guys' lives in the most hurtful way possible. I think that'd put, like, at least a little strain on any relationship between two people, probably. It might also make the direct victim of some of this violence a little upset, and perhaps liable to say a thing or two he doesn't mean in the heat of the moment. Seeing as he is a human person. Who knows.

---

Ship: 3ZUN

Ship it? Yes, but only casually, I admit

1) What made you ship it? As a CQL native, the dynamics are clearly worked into the show, especially xiyao, as well as some nieyao, and they make an impact, for sure. But honestly, a large part of it also comes from the 3zun fanwork I've seen people produce? There is some STELLAR stuff out there about these guys. It's helped win me over.

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? It's the way all three of them would like to make things work, and all three of them care about each other, but each have their own approaches to life that are so in conflict with the others. This post sums it up really well for me: NMJ was raised to live honorably and die young, JGY was raised to survive and be secure, and LXC was raised to take responsibility for everyone around him. I really like the xiyao dynamics of "I've done every evil thing someone can do, but you are the one living person I hold sacred" and "you helped me at my lowest and I see you the way nobody else does (which is simultaneously a truer version of you and STILL ALSO an awful facade)." The utter betrayal while still genuinely caring for a person and then dying in front of them, leaving them to unpack all of that on their own for the next however many years. nielan presumably hit the sect heirs to friends to lovers/sect leaders thrust into power too young and dealing with the heavy weight of what their fathers left behind beats. nieyao had something going for them before it all went sideways and pretty soon you're monologuing to your ex's severed head in your secret evil lair/closet. Not a great look, Yaoyao

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship? I know that's part of the appeal for some people, but once we move from Meng Yao to Jin Guangyao, the nieyao leg of 3zun gets a pretty dicey and it becomes a harder sell for me. When JGY's main objective becomes maintaining a secure position in the Jin clan (including defaulting to JGS's opinions, which NMJ is known to disagree with, vocally, and semi-frequently), it's hard for me to get them to a place where I'd find them compatible enough to ship. And certainly when JGY starts to sabotage NMJ, that's a total no-go for me :/ I'm keeping them away from each other

---

Ship: 3CHEN

Ship it? Yes!

1) What made you ship it? I don't actually remember an inciting incident, exactly? I am sure it had to do with happenings on the lanlan discord. Probably comes down to being a lanlan appreciator, but also songxiao being my #1 at the end of the day, and wanting, as ever, for Song Lan to catch a break, perhaps even some slack. I really do think these three would work very well together, especially after all they've been through by the end of MDZS. There is so much healing they can do together. They've all been dealt a really rough, but kind of similar, hands. Lan Xichen and Song Lan have the grief and survivor guilt over their respective dear friends/bfs that they can process together (and for the ship to work, I think this step needs to come first before XXC reenters the picture). Lan Xichen and Xiao Xingchen both had their good faith taken advantage of, which led to the deaths of innocent people and men they loved, and they have similar guilt to process. Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen have their shared history (see: everything above), and they're dealing with different sides of the same traumatic events; they also have a lot of work to do to learn how to exist around each other again comfortably. Put all 3 of these guys in the same place, and you have a lot to work with, I think. Also, Song Lan has two hands (let him have two beautifully kind and loving boyfriends)

2) What are your favorite things about the ship? The dynamics and healing potential explained above! But also, I think the characters are fun together. They're all good boys who would all love and support each other. They're all enormously skilled cultivators, and would be a match for each other in that regard. None of them care about social status in their judgements of people. Xichen is well versed in sect politics and policy, while songxiao are the type to effect change through direct, small-scale action, with Song Lan being the more practical and Xiao Xingchen being less limited by societal expectations; working together, they could improve things for a lot of people more effectively than they could apart. I like Song Lan's steady, serious devotion with Xiao Xingchen's softness and light silly streak and Lan Xichen's good humor and patience. I like Song Lan being able to step outside when he's had enough touch for the moment while his bfs can keep getting their cuddles in, and then blushing as hard as a fierce corpse can when he comes back indoors and gets one little kiss on the cheek from each of them.

3) Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship? It's a small ship, so I'm not sure… But I think A-Qing should be in the 3chen picture. (I also think this about post-canon Yi City fixits generally.) If you're working in canon conditions, and you're doing the work to resurrect Xiao Xingchen in some creative way or another, why wouldn't you bring A-Qing along, too. She's probably easier to bring back than XXC. She also deserves better. She could have THREE dads. Imagine

[leatherbookmark]

actually i have discovered the only true and correct reading of md/zs: wgxn are the true Evil Men of mdzs. just look at how they’re dealing with lxc post-guanyin

[xiyao-feels]

In this post I'm going to argue that the common position that LXC did not know JGY was going to kill the Wen he had with him in episode 23 is wrong. I think the evidence that he did know is considerable, and in fact the only evidence against that position is the framing which casts JGY executing them as being extremely evil. Although LXC and JGY's exchange after the sect leader discussion (the "Am I the evil?" exchange) is often taken as additional evidence that this is JGY's moment of no return on his journey to Evil, I think this is due to a misinterpretation of the exchange, which I will also argue below.

In Part 1, I show that LXC has unambiguously agreed to a plan which involves the execution of at least some Wen, and therefore the central question is whether he was expecting the particular group of Wen JGY brings in with him to be spared; I also argue that he has plausibly agreed to have even certain non-combatants killed. In Part 2, I contrast them with the Wen Jin Zixun is killing to argue that they are not, and also present the evidence that LXC has also agreed to the killing Jin Zixun is doing. In Part 3, I consider the lack of motive JGS has for having JGY, behind LXC's back, kill Wen he explicitly agreed with LXC he would spare. In Part 4, I discuss the "am I the evil" exchange, and in particular argue that the "evil" NMJ is opposed to is not JGS, as seems to be a common assumption, but the Wen. I conclude by examining the remaining evidence and arguing that it is insufficient to overcome the rest of the evidence.

Part One: What to do with the Wen remnants?

In episode 23, as WWX and LWJ discuss things, we hear distressed cries accompanied by calls of Kill them! and Kill them all! (This starts at about 17:47.) We are told that people are capturing the remaining Wen, and it is very clear what they are doing with the Wen once they catch them.

The next scene is JGS, NMJ, and LXC discussing what to do with the remaining Wen, joined partway through by JGY. I encourage you to watch it (link); it lasts from 18:09 to about 22:40 on YouTube. I have also transcribed the dialogue (including the dialogue from the 'am I the evil?' exchange), both English and Chinese, in a post here; the post also includes my attempt at summarizing the whole conversation. However, as the conversation does encompass more than just the plan about what to do with the remaining Wen, I am now going to summarize the discussion of that particular issue below.

JGS is initially pro- the capturing, and implicitly the extermination, of all the remaining Wen. LXC argues for letting the defenseless remnants—note, not the ones who can defend themselves—go. NMJ is initially on JGS' side, but relents in the face of LXC's disappointment and also argues they should let them go. JGS counters by reminding them of the threat the remaining Wen would pose should they get hold of the Yin Iron. NMJ bows and says that "Clan Leader Jin has thought about it very thoroughly" (金宗主所虑甚详); to my eyes he appears to be prepared to concede on the matter, but I freely admit that we don't actually know, as the conversation takes a slight detour and this is not resolved. We return to the issue of the Wen when JGY enters with his captured group of Wen and LXC asks him for his opinion. JGY suggests that they confine and monitor "the old, weak, and young"* as long as they stop making trouble, while those who killed a Sunshot cultivator will be executed; at LXC's prompt he provides a possible location for such confinement. NMJ observes brusquely that JGY is "really familiar with it" (你倒熟悉) (in context I think this is about JGY's knowledge of Wen places). LXC announces that they should do as A-Yao suggests; it is somewhat ambiguous in the scene whether he gets agreement, as NMJ leaves angrily rather than reply when JGS and LXC look at him, but as subsequent events seem to follow along JGY's suggestion, we can surmise that agreement was in fact reached.

*老弱妇孺. As ever, I don't speak Chinese; however Pleco gives 'the old and weak' for 老弱 and 'women and children' for 妇孺. In context, I think it is fairly clear that 'women' would not include, say, the Wen equivalent of Madam Yu, fighting cultivators with good cultivation power, who besides would probably have killed a Sunshot cultivator and thus would be sentenced to death.

I wish to point out a few things about this exchange. First, the default plan without LXC's interference is apparently to simply kill them all. Second, at no point does anyone including LXC argue in favour of sparing the Wen who aren't defenseless; if LXC were a Wen, it seems likely that he would be on the chopping block due to his cultivation power and martial prowess. Third, the plan LXC agrees to here /very explicitly/ includes killing some of the captured Wen. There is no way I can think of to interpret the conversation in any other way. At no point does LXC agree to a plan which involves sparing all of them.

I'm hammering this point home because I think it is often overlooked. If the agreement is that all the remaining Wen are going to be spared, then obviously if any Wen are still killed this is a betrayal of that agreement. But that's clearly not the agreement that's reached! The fact that some Wen are killed is therefore not sufficient to constitute a betrayal of that agreement; the question becomes whether the Wen we see JGY kill are in a group protected by that agreement.

Before we look at these Wen, however, I want to look at the scene after JGY kills the Wen. Once again, we see LWJ and WWX discussing things. They are interrupted by cries and pleas from a group of the remaining Wen (at 26:56), who are being chased down and killed by Jin Zixun. It's hard to get a decent picture, but to my eyes they do indeed look like the old, the weak, and the young:

Moreover, WWX explicitly identifies them as such. "These are women, children, and old men. Are they also evil?" he asks, and the phrase is 老弱妇孺—the same phrase JGY used to identify those to be confined and monitored in the previous scene.

Is Jin Zixun's killing a betrayal of the agreement, then? But consider his reply:

It's Clan Leader's order that anyone who has concern with Yin Iron should not be alive. Nie-zongzhu and Lan-zongzhu also agreed. Does Jiang clan have any questions? 宗主有令 凡是跟阴铁有关的人 一个都不能留 聂宗主和蓝宗主也同意了 难道你们江氏还有什么疑问吗

Jin Zixun explicitly says that NMJ and LXC agreed to the killing of anyone who "has concern with Yin Iron," regardless, it seems, of whether they have power in themselves or no. It's not impossible Jin Zixun is lying; however, while he is certainly intent on provoking WWX, he does not seem to be worried about being caught in deceit, and indeed LWJ who is right there does not contradict him or seem to doubt him. Moreover, to the best that I can recall this does not come up again, as we might expect it to if Jin Zixun is in fact deceiving them; and while these Wen who know something about Yin Iron may be 老弱妇孺, they are nevertheless reasonably viewed as a threat, and it seems a fairly natural extension of the agreement we see the clan leaders reach. I'm not saying Jin Zixun would never lie, or anything, but there doesn't seem to be any indication that he's lying about LXC's agreement, while there is evidence that he's not.

Therefore, from the evidence available, it is entirely unambiguous that LXC has agreed to a plan that involves killing any Wen who have killed a Sunshot cultivator; I don't think there's any plausible interpretation other than 'execution' of what would happen to the old, weak, and young if they didn't stop making trouble, and again that's part of the plan we explicitly see him agree to; and it seems likely that he agreed to the killing of old, weak, and young Wen who "have concern with Yin Iron."

At this point I wish to pause to make a note. It seems likely that people will feel uncomfortable with LXC doing this and indeed perhaps with LXC in general because he did this; this is entirely understandable, and I'm not at all saying otherwise. However, I think it's important to note that LXC's intervention /is an improvement over the status quo/. If he had not intervened, the Wen would simply all have been killed. Yes, it's an awful and unjust agreement, and you could argue he should never have taken part in the discussion; but if he hadn't, the Wen would all have been killed. It is his willingness to "play the game" that saves lives.

(You could of course argue that he should have devoted himself to saving them entirely, by force if necessary. This has been discussed in other places and by many different people; for here I will simply say I do not think it was a viable option.)

Part Two: Which Wen?

It is clear, then, that LXC has agreed to the killing of at least some Wen. If we accept Jin Zixun's account, then even if the Wen JGY has executed are "the old, weak, and young," then that is not sufficient evidence to say that they were in the group that should have been spared! However, I think we can do better than that. To my eyes, they do not look like "the old, weak, and young":

While it is true that they are not all e.g. wearing Wen cultivator uniforms, from what I can see they all look like strong young men and women. Contrast Jin Zixun's group, which generally looks more elderly and contains a child! Moreover, while Jin Zixun runs his victims down with bow and arrow on the open road, the people JGY kills are heavily guarded, surrounded by men holding swords on them the whole time. I realize this is to some extent a matter of personal judgement, but honestly, especially combined with the contrast with Jin Zixun's group, they do not at all look to me like they are in the group that was agreed would be spared. If you disagree with this, I hope you will at least agree that they are not /unambiguously/ part of the group that was agreed would be spared; that is, it is open to debate.

Part Three: Motive

If the visual evidence is insufficient, let us turn to another question: why would JGY kill these people if he'd just proposed to LXC to spare them? The answer to that is in some sense obvious—he'd be doing it because his father wanted it—but that simply moves the question back another level. Why would JGS want JGY to kill these people, and in such an obvious manner, if he'd just agreed with LXC he would spare them?

I legitimately cannot think of a good explanation. His central goal is to progress on obtaining the Yin Iron, and to make sure no one else gets their hand on it—but the arrangement they agree to serves him just fine for that. We know he does in fact spare some of the Wen, so it's not the case that he is simply pretending to spare any of them while having them all killed. If he wants to reduce the number of people he's sparing for whatever reason, I suppose he might have JGY kill some of them—but we don't have any evidence he does want that, and why would he have JGY do it in such a public manner? They still haven't left Nightless City—they haven't even had the Banquet yet—and it's the middle of the day and there is blood on the steps:

So, what, he wants to come to an agreement with LXC and then betray it immediately for some random reason, and also do it in a way LXC is likely though not guaranteed to find out about??

In the interests of considering all the options, and the recognition that CQL does not always care about logistics when it's hitting emotional beats, perhaps we can say that the easily-discoverable nature of this is not meant to be taken literally. But there's still the problem of what motive JGS has to do this—and more than that, the question of the significant motive he has not to.

Consider the situation at the beginning of the discussion: NMJ is in agreement with LXC, united against JGS. By the end of it, LXC is readily agreeing with JGY, and NMJ is in some disgruntlement - and not even in a way that seems particularly directed at JGS! From JGS' perspective, it's very much a desirable outcome, and indeed we can see he appears quite pleased with it.

Endangering this gain would therefore have to bring some significant gain in return. And… what is there? NMJ might approve of killing the Wen but he wouldn't approve of telling LXC you're going to spare someone and then immediately killing them. If this were found out, it would entirely reverse the effect of the agreement, and you would have Lan and Nie together against the Jin—exactly what JGS doesn't want! And it's worth remembering that at this point they haven't even sworn the brotherhood oath yet, that's a few scenes on, so it would be an extremely stupid time to endanger LXC and JGY's rapport. JGS is absolutely an asshole, but he's specifically a power-hungry asshole, and especially in CQL a clever and focused power-hungry asshole; he's not going to randomly endanger political gain just because he wants to be Evil.

Part Four: Am I the evil?

I think that part of the reason for the belief that JGY killed the Wen is this exchange, or more specifically a common misinterpretation of this exchange. You can watch it here, from 22:39 to 23:45 (to 24:08 If you want to watch the blood on the steps); I have also transcribed the dialogue, both the Chinese and the YT English subtitles, into another post here.

In this exchange, LXC tells JGY not to take NMJ's behaviour to heart; it's simply that he "resents the evil and favours the good,"* and that he's simply worried that JGY has "made the wrong choice." It's honestly not clear to me if this is supposed to hit in English quite the way it does—is LXC talking about a specific, individual wrong choice JGY has made? However it does seem to be usually interpreted as this, and moreover, specifically as NMJ thinking JGY has made the wrong choice /in becoming JGY/, in becoming Jin Guangshan's recognized son and aligning himself with the Jin. In this understanding of events this criticism of JGY is then validated by his killing the Wen—look, he's being evil, just as NMJ said!

There is a problem with this version of events, however. NMJ dislikes JGS, to be sure, and disapproves of him and so forth, but I don't think he thinks he's evil or particularly disapproves of JGY working for his dad JGS qua JGY working for his dad JGS. It's worth noting that in MDZS, at least, NMJ releases MY from his obligation to him and sends MY to JGS with his letter of recommendation! But there is someone NMJ hates, or rather someones: the Wen. His antipathy towards JGY at present isn't based on JGY working for JGS; it's based on JGY having recently worked for WRH. Even in CQL, remember, in episode 27 NMJ speaks up against LXC and JC's defense of WQ and WN, notably aligning himself with JGS on the matter (link). Thus his displeasure that JGY is "really familiar" with Wen places. NMJ would not be impressed with JGY executing Wen he had agreed with NMJ and LXC not to execute, but killing captured prisoners, even non-combatants, is not something NMJ considers inherently evil. To be clear, I am not trying to make NMJ out as uniquely bad for this! This is true of most people in his society, and while NMJ is absolutely unusually principled, that doesn't mean his principles are the exact modern-day principles we might like him to have.

When LXC talks about "the evil," he is not talking about JGS; rather he is talking about the defeated Wen. His stutter in response to Am I the evil? makes much more sense in this light. It would be a much more obvious return from JGY, and indeed fairly close to an insult from LXC, if LXC meant that JGS—whom JGY had just aligned himself with, and who also is /JGY's dad who just recognized him/—were evil; on the other hand, if LXC is simply referring to NMJ's well-known hatred of the Wen, then JGY taking it seriously—as either a serious question about his own evil, or a question about whether NMJ now feels the same hatred towards /him/—is more understandably an unexpected conversational move.

Considering the exchange in this light, I think we should not see it as suggesting that JGY's next action is betraying LXC. If NMJ's hatred is based primarily on JGY's previous association with the Wen,† if anything to me the effect is to parallel JGY doing awful things under WRH with JGY doing awful things under JGS; in either situation, he is much constrained. I don't insist on that interpretation, of course, but I do think the "evil" here is very much the Wen and not JGS, and that this complicates the idea that this is the show telling us that JGY is Evil Now.

†There is the captain killing too, but he clearly does not wholeheartedly condemn JGY for it previous to meeting him in Sun Palace, and even expresses some concern for him in the interim; JGY's work with the Wen is much more significant here.

Conclusion

To sum up, then: LXC very explicitly agrees to a plan that involves killing some of the captured Wen; there is also evidence that he may have agreed to killing some of the non-combatants among the captured Wen, and I think it likely. Regardless of this last, I think the visual evidence (especially in contrast with the Wen Jin Zixun kills) suggests that the Wen JGY has executed are in the group LXC explicitly agreed to have killed. Moreover, I think that the common interpretation of the Am I the evil exchange as telling us that JGY is Evil now is flawed, and that it therefore doesn't suggest that JGY's next actions are evil beyond, like, the evil of executing captured prisoners even as part of an approach that saves some of them.

There is the matter of the framing of the execution; it does certainly suggest that JGY is doing something awful. My answer to this is twofold. First, that JGY is indeed doing something awful. Executing captured prisoners is bad! Like, I am not blaming him for not reforming society from the ground up, here, and I do tend to think it's the only option that he had, but that doesn't mean it's not a shitty option.

Second, that the show sometimes frames JGY's actions as Evil in a way that's not really justified by what's presented. If you consider the Burial Mounds flashback in episode 43 for example (link), then we see JGY being presented as evil when he is, objectively, being helpful and helping protect LWJ's reputation. His telling LWJ that LQR is there to pick him up is framed as worse than LQR having LWJ beaten is. I am not, to be clear, saying that framing can't be legitimate evidence; of course it can. Nevertheless, I think it's worth considering the issues around JGY's presentation in CQL more generally, and especially to consider whether the framing alone is sufficient to conclude that he is betraying an agreement with LXC, rather than simply executing captives, especially in the light of the evidence against this.

As a final note, I want to note that I suspect part of the reason for this take is the general reluctance to believe that the characters we like could be doing something bad/something we disagree with. With LXC, this very often tends to result in the belief that he didn't know JGY was doing bad things, despite the mass of evidence against this position; with NMJ in particular, I cannot count the number of times I have seen people simply assume that he is obviously against the destruction of the Wen. This falls into the intersection of both, reassigning the target of NMJ's hatred from the Wen, who have our sympathy, to JGS, who decidedly does not; and making it such that LXC is ignorant that JGY is going to have those Wen executed, because how could he speak with JGY so warmly beforehand otherwise? But NMJ hates the Wen, and will go on to position himself with JGS, against LXC!, against them; and LXC is indeed willing to treat JGY with warmth despite his doing awful things, as in CQL we will see him be warm with JGY at the Phoenix Mountain Hunt despite JGY having (due to the wishes of his father) ordered captured Wen out in front of the targets. Neither of them have, for example, CQL LWJ's exact set of beliefs.

*恩怨分明嫉恶如仇. Generally I hate to post about my thoughts on the translation, but I do think it's worth noting here that from what I can tell this seems to be two phrases, 恩怨分明 and 嫉恶如仇. For 恩怨分明, Pleco gives "know clearly to whom to show gratitude and against whom to feel resentment"; for 嫉恶如仇, however, it gives "hate evil like an enemy; abhor evil as one's deadly foes". This is the phrase that gets translated as "absolutely couldn't stand wrongdoings" in ch 30 (link), when WWX is wondering why LWJ didn't just go kill XY (ER translation):

Wei WuXian found this a bit strange. Although Lan WangJi looked as if he didn’t care about anything, from Wei WuXian’s past experiences with him, he absolutely couldn’t stand wrongdoings, possibly even more than Nie HuaiSang’s brother. Back then, the LanlingJin Sect had some dishonest ways of doing things, and Lan WangJi never bothered to be subtle about them. Even until now, he always refused to go to their sect’s Discussion Conferences. If two cruel massacres happened, the news would’ve probably spread over the entire cultivational world and Lan WangJi definitely wouldn’t have turned a blind eye to them. Why did he not go and give Xue Yang what he deserved?

Taming Wangxian gives it as "he hated evildoers to the core" (link), and MDZS Translation gives it "someone who hated evil with a vengeance" (link).

It's also 嫉恶如仇 that JGY repeats, rather than 恩怨分明. The Viki subtitles, for what it's worth translates this portion of the exchange as follows:

LXC: Brother Mingjue is precisely someone who is clear about kindness and grudges, and abhors evil as one's deadly foe. He's just worried you've gone down the wrong path.

JGY: "Abhor evil as one's deadly foe…" Am I exactly that evil then?

As ever, I am open to correction on this matter.

ETA: on the matter of Zixun, I think madtom's point is right; I replied here.

[crossdressingdeath]

It infuriates me when people say that "oh it wasn't their fault JGY manipulated them" for every bad thing happening in MDZS. Especially in defense of JC. Like yes, he manipulated a lot of people and he's a murderous little bastard, but even when JGY put his hand in, the person still made the choice. JC, especially because of the CQL, is treated like a poor little baby due to this. Manipulation to cause harm and actually causing harm are two separate things. Very similar, but still different. And honestly, it wasn't even very hard for JC to go off, he didn't even need manipulation. It's also hypocritical of JC stans to criticize JGY and WWX of being mass murderers and killers when JC is guilty of the same thing and more!

I think the trouble is that people often miss that just because there are situations in the novel where "JGY manipulated them" largely (though never completely) absolves a character of guilt doesn't mean that that applies to every character JGY ever talks to. Like... we know JGY is a master manipulator, but one of the interesting things about him is that if we look at just the main cast he... very rarely does. He manipulates LXC into not seeing him as suspicious (although I'd argue that that's at least partially incidental and related to him genuinely wanting to be LXC's friend), but otherwise he seems to mostly just... occasionally suggest the cast act on their preexisting impulses. Hell, it's usually JGS making the suggestions! For instance, it's JGS who's all "Hey, Sect Leader Jiang, your second in command insulted you one time" and then JC is like "Shit, did he? I'd better kill him". That's the thing with the manipulators in MDZS; all they do is get the ball rolling. They'll make a suggestion, they'll tell a couple lies, and that is all it takes for whoever they're talking to to go full mass murderer. JC is the perfect example, because as far as we know the Jins did practically nothing! JGS said WWX insulted JC (and was immediately shot down by Lan "never ever lies ever" Wangji) and then claimed the Wens JC knew for a fact were civilians were actually an army; there's no mention of them doing anything beyond that. They were at most an excuse for JC to do what he already wanted to, because JC knew from what he'd seen with his own eyes that everything they were saying was bullshit.

And yeah, people act like manipulation completely removes all culpability from the shoulders of the person who actually did whatever deed is being discussed when... that's not how it works. And because it's mostly JC people keep trying to absolve of guilt by claiming he was manipulated: not only was he not manipulated himself on account of being one of the only people who went to the Burial Mounds and saw the Wen remnants (meaning he had all the information that JGY and JGS were hiding from everyone else to manipulate them into killing a bunch of civilians), he actually does a good chunk of the manipulating for the Jins! Remember, he actively hides the fact that the Wens a) are civilians and b) are led by the people who risked their lives protecting him after Lotus Pier fell in favour of telling everyone that WWX is a traitor for... fulfilling JC's life debts for him. This is the sort of manipulation that removes culpability from a person, because the people JC's talking to aren't getting the full story. Because he's hiding it from them. So if people are going to insist that JC shouldn't be held culpable for anything because "JGY manipulated him" (footage not found), then everyone involved in the first siege of the Burial Mounds except JGS, JGY and JC is totally innocent because the three of them are, as far as we know, the only cast members who actually knew what was happening. And yet people keep insisting that everyone is guilty except JC! Very strange, that one of the only people who actually knew what was happening is also the only one who isn't guilty. People should just admit that the "JGY manipulated them" line is just about scrambling for an excuse to insist that JC willingly slaughtering a civilian population out of sheer spite and desire for revenge against people who were already dead isn't a completely morally bankrupt act already.

And yeah, it's incredibly hypocritical that people both in and out of universe freak out over WWX and JGY being mass murderers when a) WWX only acted in self defence and b) JC is also a mass murderer. And a serial killer! Which JGY and WWX are not! Keep that in mind next time you read the bit where the sects all turn on JGY; they are doing this in the presence of a known serial killer who tortures people to death and doesn't even benefit from it (one thing you can say about JGY is that he never kills anyone without some sort of tangible benefit) with no intention of doing anything about him. I'm not suggesting that JGY shouldn't have been dealt with for his crimes, but... just keep in mind that they're doing all this with the support and arguably under the leadership of a guy who has brutally tortured so many people to death that his entire reputation is based around it. And do nothing about that at any point. Classism is alive and well among the sects.

[bewareof12metersfrogs]

Warning: long rant. Probably messed up grammar. Not LXC-friendly.

So Pinterest gave me this:

And I was like

Ah yes, Lan Xichen.

I mean, I love that guy, but oh gosh that man is BLIND. Like, man's so blind Xue Yang could use him to slaughter people.

(I'm so sorry for that joke)

I really loved him when I first read the book, esp pre-Nightless City, but then I read it for the second (and third) time and that love turned into "uhh, I guess I kinda like him?"

I mean, in Sunshot Campaign arc, NMJ just got freaking tortured. He just got beaten, made to watch his men die, and his former deputy "betrayed" him -- and then LXC was just like, "oh da-ge CALM down, this is all part of OUR plan, A-Yao's our spy lol put Baxia away don't shout at him smh"

Why didn't LXC say to NMJ that the whole thing had been orchestrated? Okay, I get it, maybe he couldn't risk JGY getting caught, but couldn't he just tell NMJ, "hey, this is the plan. You're gonna get caught at Yangquan by WRH and our spy will take care of the rest of it" ? I'm pretty sure NMJ was angrier about his men getting slaughtered than himself getting beaten. NMJ is kinda like WWX; they were both idiots, but they cared about their people. Pretty sure he cared more about his men than himself. If he knew about the "plan", he'd most likely bring the disciples who were ready to die.

THEN LXC just went to NMJ like, "Hey let's be sworn brothers!". Xichen, dude, his wounds aren't even healed. I mean, it's a bit insensitive right?? I think it is. The whole sworn-brotherhood-right-after-shunshot-campaign thing still bothers me. To me, it seems like no one cared about NMJ. I mean, he was the leader of SC, people used his skills, his men, his everything, and then he was just, like, casted aside?? Pretty sure man's got PTSD. Also, qi deviation. Oh gosh I forgot about qi deviation.

Anyway, yeah, LXC was blind throughout the novel. I won't talk about the scene where Wangxian tried to tell him that A-Yao = bad, but I will talk about the scene where NHS decided to "use" his er-ge to kill his san-ge. Was it intentional? Perhaps. Was NHS lying? Maybe. Was it bad? Absolutely. Was it expected? Of course.

Let's put ourselves in NHS' shoes for a second. Your big bro, who is also the one who raised you and the only family you have left, died. People are quacking "oh it's the Nie curse, and isn't it such a tragedy?" BUT NO! One day you be minding your own business and then BAM you found out that da-ge'd been murdered and mutilated AND betrayed. So you started scheming for like a decade. Everything was going great, as great as a 10 years revenge plan could ever be. You just gotta wait for a few more hours, you just gotta listen to your nemesis' retelling his sad background story, you just gotta endure the pain of seeing your dead big bro wrecking havoc, and you'd have your revenge.

Then of course your er-ge, your big bro's best friend, gotta help your big bro's killer. He just gotta treat his wounds, huh? Pretty sure NHS was unstable. He was desperate and maybe even full of wrath. I understand that, at least, the same way I understand that maybe LXC tried to treat JGY's wounds because he still saw him as his brother -- he didn't want to lose another brother. But how about NHS? He was watching the man whom he thought was his brother treating the man who betrayed and murdered his actual brother. NHS was being a dick, yeah, but it was expected.

Think about this for a second. NMJ's corpse was still right there (and gosh, NHS had to sew his big bro's corpse by himself). NHS was RIGHT there, and LXC had the audacity to tend to JGY's wounds after the man himself admitted to his crimes. I think it's understandable if NHS felt at least insulted.

Also, he was perhaps sick of people not thinking that his big brother was as important as other people, that he was also a human being instead of just a war machine or even a mere tool that can be casted aside whenever they want to. Why did his brother have to die because of other people's greed and selfish decisions? Why did he have to lose the only family he had left forever and why did he have to just sit back and accept it?

Most importantly, LXC had been too blind for more than a decade too long.

Also, the bit about "You're Wangji's only mistake":

Bruh.

If WWX is LWJ's only mistake, then (trusting) LXC is NMJ's only mistake. I mean, sure, WWX is as dumb and oblivious as a rock, but can you really blame him?? HE WAS TRYING TO KEEP HIMSELF, HIS FAMILY, AND THE WEN REMNANTS ALIVE, DUDE'S GOT NO TIME TO THINK ABOUT FKING ROMANCE.

Sorry, I got carried away.

Anyway, are we just gonna ignore the fact that LWJ had been acting like he hated WWX since, like, the first time they met?? I mean, I really love LWJ, but his only mistake is his communication skills (or lack thereof).

But LWJ never gave up on WWX. He learned to express himself way better. Man's got dedication and he's not afraid to learn. I really love that about him.

Also, I understand that LXC was angry because LWJ took beatings to protect WWX, but I don't think he had the right to blame WWX for that. Yes, I know WWX did plenty of things wrong; he was extremely reckless and untrusting, but he never asked LWJ to protect him. LWJ did everything voluntarily. Ffs Xichen WWX didn't even know that LWJ did that. You know why? CAUSE HE WAS FKING DYING THAT'S WHY.

TLDR: LWJ was a grown ass man.

Okay. So, do I hate LXC? No. But do I find him flawed? Yes. But that's why I like MXTX's characters, including WRH, JGY, and LXC (the only exception are perhaps JGS and MXY's fam, and I think we all know why). They all have flaws. For me, LXC is too naive and blind, JGY is too power-hungry and selfish, and NMJ is too stubborn and unyielding. NHS? Well, he's a lot of things. He's manipulative, unsympathetic, and IMO he's got a problem with obsession too. He and JGY are alike, in my opinion. The main difference is their goals: JGY seeks power, NHS seeks revenge.

Everyone has flaws. LWJ and WWX have flaws too; they're EXTREMELY flawed. Heck, even our lord and saviour Shijie also has flaws, as much as it hurts me to type that.

Then why do I get so worked up about LXC's flaws? Honestly I don't really know. Maybe it's because I'm tired of (almost) the entirety of fandom treating him like a god, maybe because I'm tired of people who treat NHS like the devil himself, or maybe because I'm disappointed in him. I mean, JGY's our main villain, but I still love him so much. Heck, I love him even more than I love LXC. Bruh, nowadays I even like WRH more. At least that guy is downright evil and he looks cool while doing whatever evil things WRH does (I'm talking about the novel and donghua mmkay).

Anyway, this is the end of my rant. I apologise if I'm offending you, this is just something that's been bothering me since the first time I re-read MDZS. This whole thing is like a plot bunny but instead of a "plot", the bunny is shaped like a "rant". This is a rant bunny. I need to get this outta my head. I've edited this thing like four times already because I keep finding errors and stuffs. I also added like two new paragraphs.

I'm sad now.

[perkynurples]

... May I ask you about the slow excruciating progression from Meng Yao to Jiggy?

also paging @holdmycaffeine and @cadencekismet, who asked me for the very same, and @acutebird-fics, who is my partner in crime deep philosophical discussions about these characters, and a great deal of this messy essay is informed by those

Tl;dr: JGY is a multifaceted character and the author struggles not to lose her mind trying to find the right words to describe that. Literally every single point of this rant is up for discussion, begging for it even, so please don’t hesitate to engage me, but, like... tomorrow, maybe. After I sleep it off.

Meta I used or referenced: THIS ONE explaining how JGS deciding to give him the name GuangYao is all kinds of wrong | THIS ONE talking about the red bindi-like Jin forehead dots, among other things | THIS ONE about his capacity for evil and his own recognition thereof

-

Alright, without any fancy preamble, here goes. Honestly, whenever I think about JGY for more than three seconds, it becomes painfully evident that there are two wolves inside me at all times - one wants to spend tens of thousands of words exploring his narrative, his choices, his abilities and his failings, his capacity for violence as well as his capacity for love...

And the other one just likes to call him a gremlin in chief in a fancy hat, and doesn’t want to go much further than that. I’m going to try and feed them both.

The thing that pisses me off about Meng Yao is just. The fact that he doesn’t stay Meng Yao, and we get to watch it happen in slow motion. You get a tiny little twink-ass kid who suddenly finds himself adopted into the Nie by the Sect Leader himself, and this is Meng Yao, the son of one of Jin Guangshan’s many mistresses, who doesn’t have a whole lot going for him aside from that, at that moment - his cultivation, weak. His opportunities, nonexistent. His dick, small. His political savvy, only just starting to show itself.

And this guy gets the chance of a lifetime presented to him on a Qinghe-silver platter. Like, we can argue about book canon and try and decide if he did anything at all to make NMJ notice him, but show canon makes it all the more hilarious (again, please refer to this gem of a post for a level of humor I’m sorely incapable of) - you’re seventeen, and the Batman of the cultivation world picks you up and elevates your status across swathes of societal norms, to a level you previously could have only dreamed of.

It’s interesting to me to try and imagine if this was the moment that Meant Something - in the grand scope of things, of course it did, because it started MY on the road to JGY, but also to Meng Yao personally, in terms of what he believed he could comfortably achieve. I do not for a second believe he started out wanting to murder people to reach his goal, or that he even had a good goal to begin with - being accepted by his father, maybe. Murdering the (at the time) greatest villain in the world, becoming a renowned spy, landing an incredibly beneficial sworn brotherhood, et cetera et cetera? I mean, the kid has wet dreams, but no way do they reach this far at this point in his life.

But so many things about him are unclear. Show canon changes his timeline, in that he met NMJ before he met Lan Xichen, and even accompanied NHS to the Cloud Recesses. Either way, his stint with the Nie is incredibly personally important to him. I firmly believe he loved and admired them, in his own way. He certainly flourished under NMJ’s tutelage and approval, but in the end, his motivations, his entire raison d’etre, clashed with NMJ’s too much. To Meng Yao, who’d gotten kicked down those infamous Koi Tower stairs for daring to ask for his father’s attention, murdering a guy for slandering him and his mother was a natural outcome of being slandered his entire life, and finally having had enough - to NMJ, it was unforgivable.

But this still isn’t where Meng Yao becomes Jin Guangyao, and it begs the goddamn question - how much of what JGY was perfectly willing and capable of doing to stay in power, had been present in Meng Yao that entire time? You see him make excuses that someone who isn’t NMJ, with his incredibly staunch morals and black-and-white view of the world, might have even accepted, but instinctively, you know - making excuses is just how it’s going to be with this guy.

Because Meng Yao, as well as Jin Guangyao, lies, and he is damn good at it. He is so good at it, that he lies his way to the very top of the Wen, all the way to Wen Ruohan’s side. His lying is what enables him to become Jin Guangyao. And like any good liar, he doesn’t only lie to the people around him - he also lies to himself.

And I can’t blame him, because - been there. Lying to yourself becomes absolutely necessary, when you want to keep everyone else around you believing in a mask you wear. You need to start believing it, at least a little bit, at least sometimes, for it to work.

At this point, you’re probably wondering - but Annie, what about the time he spent a year sheltering Lan Xichen? Did he lie then? Was he not just Meng Yao, a poor but cunning bookkeeper, then? I’m getting there, I swear. Slowly and in a roundabout sort of way, because honestly, I don’t know how I can start talking about the LXC of it all, without it turning into a novel.

Because whichever way you twist it, whatever canon you choose to follow, one constant remains - A-Yao’s feelings for Lan Xichen. I’m deliberately not calling him Meng Yao or Jin Guangyao, because it’s these feelings that divide the two, but also ultimately unify them, fatally so. But we’ll get there.

In one version of events, Meng Yao travels to Cloud Recesses at the behest of NMJ, and falls in love with a statue made of jade there. In another version of events, they meet during something LXC only describes as ‘the shame of a lifetime’. Both of those events lead to Meng Yao sheltering LXC, hiding him, saving his life and those precious Gusu Lan texts.

Whatever version of events you choose to see as the right one, one other truth also remains - Lan Xichen offers freely and without asking that which Meng Yao has had to struggle to attain, that which has been denied to him time and time again, based only on the circumstances of his birth: respect. Lan Xichen never looks down on him, never brings up his origins, and instead extends him respect and dignity in a way only he is capable of - no fucking wonder Meng Yao admires him. No fucking wonder, when this amazing guy, this perfect pristine handsome number one young cultivator, looks at him, smiles at him, and actually sees him, son of a whore or not.

No fucking wonder Meng Yao loves him, and Jin Guangyao continues loving him. No fucking wonder he never means to hurt him, but does so anyway.

But here’s the thing - lying to yourself to make things work only gets you so far. Do I think Meng Yao spends restless nights in cold sweat dreading who he’s becoming, thinking about all the lives he’s taken to further his goals? Absolutely not. Do I think he does good things, often even great things, because it helps him feel better about himself? Do I think he both loves Xichen and keeps him around because it’s beneficial to him, having the Lan Sect Leader in his pocket, but also personally speaking, having someone who so firmly believes in the goodness in him? You bet your overly adorned murderhat I do.

And frankly, reducing Jin Guangyao to one or the other - coldblooded murderer or a man plagued by his own insecurities, helpless and trying to be kind in a world that’s so evidently against him - is doing a character like him a huge disservice. You have to consider all sides, if you want to truly understand him. Hell, I myself am by no means claiming to truly understand him! He pisses me off daily, and I’m writing this stream-consciousness-y thing because he simply won’t shut up in my head.

This kid makes Choices, and here’s the catch - he doesn’t regret a whole lot of them. If anything, I’d like to think he regrets going along with his father’s plans for so fucking long before finally realizing that avenue won’t bring him what he seeks. Killing Jin Guangshan, by the way? Very sexy of him, that I’ll admit. Guy was a pig.

But even the obviously Good Choices he makes? Building those damn watchtowers? Letting Mo Xuanyu stay at Koi Tower? Seating Qin Su by his side at that same throne where his shitty father entertained concubine after concubine? (Frankly, please make up your own mind as to whether he was lying or telling the truth about learning about Qin Su being his sister before or after they’d consummated their marriage, I’m choosing to believe that he hadn’t known.)

How much of it really happens out of the goodness of his own heart, and how much of it happens because he wants to improve his own reputation, kintsugi away the minuscule cracks in his own image until he’s once again a perfect picture of Jin gold? Is he himself even capable of telling the difference, recognizing where his good intentions end and his desire to look out for number one begins? When you spend so much time crafting your own perfect mask, in your own head as well as others’, the lines blur real fast.

I think ultimately, he craves respect as much as he does pity, and those two never mesh well - the cultivation world never truly accepts him, his father certainly never truly accepts him, but Jin Guangyao is not Wei Wuxian, he can’t just look at all of these perceived injustices and slights, all of this gossip and slander, and say ‘Whatever’. No, Meng Yao takes one look at the world standing against him so very vehemently, and decides to fight it, fight tooth and nail for his place in it, until he comes out Jin Guangyao on the other side, gilded and pristine, ascending the stairs of Jinlintai to exact his revenge on anyone who dares not accept him.

The Guanyin Temple, in a way, is a perfect little vignette of his character - we observe him wildly oscillating between seeking out the aforementioned respect and pity, confessing boldly and laughing loudly one second, and pleading on his knees and clutching onto Lan Xichen’s robe the next. To him, that night, and everything leading up to it, is a series of footholds - the ground begins crumbling under his feet when he learns of the letter, and he has to act fast. 

He buys himself time, excuse after excuse, thinking on his feet, and here’s the thing - he’s not necessarily the best at that. Anymore. Up until that point, until the letter and Qin Su and WWX turning up, everything is going according to plan, and his plan at this point is, frankly, correct me if I’m wrong, sitting pretty at the top of his golden tower and making sure the truth about him never comes to light, which... Well, we all know the truth has a nasty way of coming around when it’s least convenient for you. 

And I think Jin Guangyao (not Meng Yao) is, at that point, unused to being inconvenienced. Everything he ever does, he calculates, he twists the public opinion of himself, he twists individual people’s opinions of himself, to suit him - nothing unexpected ever happens anymore, because he’s played the game long enough to foresee most things. Nie Huaisang beats him at that same game, not because he has a huge plan spanning decades of his own, but because he’s good at improvising, kicking the hornet’s nest and then knowing where to direct the fallout - but that is another essay all of its own waiting to happen.

For now, I feel like I need to wrap this up before I lose my mind. Personally (and please feel free to challenge me on this any time), I don’t feel like there’s a single defining moment, or even a handful of them, traumatic or otherwise, that irrevocably turns Meng Yao into Jin Guangyao. Sure, being kicked down the literal stairs leading to a better place for you a handful of times will have you feeling some kind of way. Sure, serving a maniacal warlord while playing an impossibly high-stakes game of spy poker will leave a mark or two. Sure, your sworn brother spitting in your face the very insults you’ve been hearing your whole life and never learned to shake off, will make one more vestige of patience inside you irrevocably crumble to smithereens. But.

Your whole life, you work very, very hard. You know to put your head down and get your hands dirty, but you also know that sometimes, the best way out of a hairy situation is turning on those puppy eyes and appearing just a smidgen weaker, a smidgen more frightened and helpless, than you actually are. And if, when you actually tell the truth and people still don’t believe you, lying becomes easier, becomes, eventually, so easy it feels as natural as breathing? Well. Might as well use that particular skillset to sneak your way through a war, am I right? Might as well use it to build yourself a nest among the very vultures who resent you, and whom you resent, and make sure that they have to respect you.

In the end, to me? Jin Guangyao is the guy who jumps from person to person, from callout to very personal callout, there in the Guanyin Temple, just to stall for time, just to regain some sort of foothold in the situation - he’s the guy who probably views losing an arm as a necessary sacrifice, shakes it off and still gets to work from there.

Meng Yao is the guy who wants to take his mother with, and who asks Lan Xichen the one question he’s dreaded knowing the answer to his entire life - not ‘will you stay and die with me?’, but the one that hides beyond that.

Is this what devotion is? Respect? Love? Is there, at this moment in time, enough of all of those things in your heart that you will, in fact, stay and die with me?

When Lan Xichen says yes, without words but still loudly enough to be understood without a doubt, Meng Yao is relieved, while Jin Guangyao is vindicated.

When Lan Xichen says yes, neither version of A-Yao needs to hear any more than that - the seventeen-year-old boy shooting a shot way above his station and loving a statue made of jade, who wants Lan Xichen to survive, and the man wearing the wrong name and the title of the first Chief Cultivator of his generation, who wants Lan Xichen to live with the weight of all his mistakes and misgivings, are both, for once, in accord. They’re both happy, and they both make that final push to save him.

In conclusion, if there even is one to this jumble of random thoughts... Jin Guangyao and Meng Yao are one and the same. Aspects of one can be found in the other, but neither feels remorse about his choices. Both of them, in turn, are capable of amazing things. Both of them are, in fact, capable of decidedly horrible things. One builds a wall around the other so thick, so impenetrable, you only catch glimpses, and only the ones he allows you to see. One learns very quickly that vulnerability is dangerous, unless employed proactively, and the other one perfects the craft.

Both of them believe they are perfectly justified in their actions. Both of them believe their own line of reasoning, their own excuses. Both of them want to be loved, for very different reasons, or for the very same ones, at the end of the day.

Both of them aspire to greatness, Meng Yao some vague idea of it instilled in him by his mother teaching him to believe his own worth, Jin Guangyao a more concrete vision of it, always one step ahead, one step higher up those gilded stairs. Both of them are willing to excuse a whole lot to reach it, too.

And when Jin Guangyao finally stands in Koi Tower, properly this time, wearing that coveted golden peony, wearing that red zhushazhi and a much nicer version of the hat his mother always told him to wear, but also wearing the wrong fucking name, one that barely gives him a spot in the family he belongs to by blood?

All he needs to do is take one look in the mirror to see Meng Yao staring back, always there with him, always ready to remind him where he came from. He’s seventeen years old, and he just buried his mother, and somewhere out there, the rest of his life awaits. His smile is all dimples, and that, too, they have in common.

Time to get to work, Meng Yao suggests, and Jin Guangyao agrees.

[trensu]

Episode 27: The One where I Want to Punch Basically Every Sect Leader in the Face. Repeatedly. With a Chair.

And we start off back in the rain, AKA OUR ENDLESS TEARS

Wwx is like, do you remember our promise?

And lwj flashbacks TO THEIR LANTERN SCENE FROM THE ONE WHERE LWJ FINALLY SEES THE LIGHT

WE GET TO SEE LWJ’S PRECIOUS BABY FACE AS HE FALLS HEAD OVER HEELS IN THAT FLASHBACK

IT HURTS SO GOOD

Wwx: i wished to stand with justice and live without regrets. But tell me now, who’s strong, who’s weaker? Who’s right and who’s wrong?

Lwj: wei ying! 

Oh god, his voice! HE’S DISTRESSED

Wwx: is this the promise we pledged our lives to keep?

THEY BOTH LOOK SO HEARTBROKEN RN

Oh, look, lwj is doing the deathgrip of gay yearning on bichen again. We haven’t seen that in awhile AND I WISH WE WEREN’T SEEING IT NOW

Okay, but for real, how can lwj look so hurt here when the actor is literally doing nothing with his face??

I know i’ve mentioned that before, BUT C’MON, HOW?? HOW DOES THAT EVEN WORK??

Wwx: my only regret is that i didn’t stop the jin clan who took living people as bait

I REGRET YOU NOT TAKING DOWN THE JIN CLAN TOO

WE COULD’VE AVOIDED SO MANY PROBLEMS IF WE’D JUST KILL OFF 90% OF THAT CLAN, OMG

And now wwx is all, i missed my chance to protect wen ning before so now i MUST leave to save him

BC WWX IS THE BEST MOST HONORABLE PERSON IN THE WORLD

Oh no

Oh noooo

He’s pulling out his demon flute. We’re gonna get THAT SCENE

Wwx: lan zhan, if i finally have to fight them, i’d prefer to fight with you

Wwx: if i am doomed to die, at least i can be killed by you. That would be worth it.

HE SAYS THAT BC HE TRUSTS VIRTUOUS LWJ TO STOP HIM IF HE REALLY IS IN THE WRONG

AND I AM SCREAMING IN PAIN RN

BC LOOK AT LWJ’S FACE

HE’S LISTENING TO HIS SOULMATE TELL HIM THAT HE WANTS HIS DEATH TO BE AT HIS HAND

Oh god, he’s doing the bichen deathgrip again

He tears his gaze away from wwx and turns to the side TO LET THEM ALL GO PAST

EYES LOWERED AS HIS HEART BREAKS INTO A MILLION PIECES

HE’S CRYING OH GOD HE’S CRYING

THERE ARE TEARS GOING DOWN HIS FACE, OH GOD WHY IS THIS HAPPENING

HE DIDN’T EVEN CRY WHEN HIS HOME GOT BURNED AND HIS FAMILY WAS MISSING AND/OR DYING

And now he drops his umbrella to the ground AS HE TRIES TO DROWN HIMSELF IN THE RAIN

*HYSTERICAL SOBBING*

THEY PACKED ALL THAT HEARTBREAK INTO THE FIRST 6MIN OF THE EPISODE, WTF, SOMEBODY STAB ME

And after all that emotional torture we get Plot Stuff happening

Blah blah wwx at the burial mounds blah blah sect leader banquet blah blah

Ugh, gross, they’re letting the idiot sect leaders talk again

They’re all blah blah wwx is evil blah blah he murders ppl blah blah we hate him blah blah

SHUT UP YOU BUNCH OF WALKING HUMAN-RIGHTS-VIOLATIONS

This whole part here is so difficult to watch. They’re literally just trash-talking my PRECIOUS SUNSHINE BOY

Jc, lwj, and lxc look visibly uncomfortable with what’s going down and they kind of sort of tried to defend wwx but they didn’t present a united front or hold their ground

Instead they let yao and ouyang run their stupid mouths

Anyway

Here’s little itty bitty bits of almost wangxiantics in the middle of this mess

Jgs: yeah, jc, i know wwx is your trusted bro and all but idk if wwx actually respects your authority. Do something about it, maybe

Lwj: *subtly glares at jgs*

And then everyone joins in on dragging wwx’s name through the mud bc apparently that’s the hot new thing in the cultivator world

If you look closely while this is happening, you can see that lwj legit GRINDS HIS TEETH with how much he’s holding back. MY POOR BB HAVING TO SIT THERE AND LISTEN TO EVERYONE DISPARAGE HIS SOULMATE

Jgs: wwx totally doesn’t respect you, jc, my bro. Everyone here heard him say how much he thinks you suck or whatever

Lwj: No I didn’t.

OOOOH, LWJ IS ANGRY AS HELL

HE’S OUTRIGHT GLARING AT JGS 

Jgs: what??

Lwj: i never heard wei ying say that, nor did i see him disrespect clan leader jiang

HANGUANG-JUN I LOVE YOU, LOOK AT YOU DEFENDING THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE, I’M SO PROUD OF YOU 

And ugh, disgusting, jgy steps in to be all “oh, well, wwx said so many awful things that day, who can possibly remember the specifics?”

Lwj visibly swallows here, as if he’s choking back a response, and his lips are all pursed. 

HE’S FURIOUS. HE’S ROILING WITH IMPOTENT ANGER, WHICH IS THE WORST KIND OF ANGER, TBH

That’s all the wangxiantics we get from that terrible awful sect leader banquet

THOSE SECT LEADERS NEED TO GET PUNCHED IN THE FACE

LIKE, A LOT

WITH A CHAIR

OR A TABLE

YOU KNOW WHAT, LET ME JUST TAKE BICHEN AND BEAT THEM ALL WITH IT

OR BETTER, YET, I’LL USE BAXIA. I WON’T EVEN CUT THEM UP. I’LL JUST BEAT THEM WITH THE BROAD PART

*ANGRY YELLING*

Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute! 

This isn’t a wangxiantic

But it is an EPIC MOMENT that should be commemorated.

Because here we get…

*drum roll*

MIANMIAN BEING A BOSS

Jz: blah blah wwx kills our people indiscriminately blah blah

Mm: not indiscriminately

Mm: indiscriminate is not accurate

And everyone around her is like, confused and offended because they’re assholes

Mm: in this specific case, if the overseers did abuse the Wen prisoners and kill wen ning, then what wwx did was not “killing indiscriminately”

Ouyang: nah, the overseers said they never abused/killed anyone

Mm: OF COURSE THEY’D FUCKING SAY THAT. THEY DON’T WANT TO FACE PUNISHMENT, YOU IDIOT

(okay, she didn’t call him an idiot outright or swear, but it was totally there in her tone of voice and also ouyang is an idiot so there)

Mm: you all think you’re so smart and voice your opinions so loudly

Mm: I SECEDE FROM THIS BULLSHIT. FUCK THE JIN CLAN AND YOUR STUPID CLAN POLITICS

And she throws down her jin robes and mARCHES RIGHT OUT OF THAT SHITHOLE WITH HER HEAD HELD HIGH

MIANMIAN PLEASE MARRY ME

Lwj watches her do that and two seconds later follows her out bC HE RECOGNIZES BADASSERY WHEN HE SEES IT (and also she defended the love of his life)

And that badass moment ends

But the banquet of idiots keeps going

The jin clan needs to learn how to shut the fuck up

God, they just go on and on and on

Why are they torturing me like this

OH WAIT, WE’RE OUTSIDE THE BANQUET HALL NOW

We see lwj and mm standing together on a terrace, talking to each other

BUT WE DON’T GET TO HEAR WHAT THEY SAY TO EACH OTHER AND THAT HAUNTS ME TO THIS DAY

WHAT DID THEY SAY

TELL MEEEEEEE

Oh, side note to let you all know this direct quote from nmj - “that girl really has a backbone.”

Okay nmj, i’m slightly less angry at you now. I won’t try to beat you with bichen or a table or a chair.

(but now i kinda wish mm would join the nie clan. I think she’d do well there and also i want to see her carry a gigantic saber)

We get some chitchat with the Official Bros™ but idc let’s move on 

(tho i do appreciate the look nmj gives jgy, like, HOW DARE YOU TALK TO ME lolol)

Ooooh, now we’re getting lan fam time

ANGRY lan fam time, uh oh.

Lqr: lwj, have you regretted it? I didn’t punish you when you broke into the Forbidden Chamber bc i thought you’d self-reflect 

Lqr: you shouldn’t have gone to qiongqi way and let wwx go. Should you make one mistake after another?

And lwj is kneeling in front of him this whole time with a blank face

Lqr: what’s the use of getting you to memorize the Great Big Book of Lan Fam Rules?? Tell me, what is rule 52?

Lwj: No association with evil

He answers immediately and without any inflection to his voice.

Lqr: did you forget what happened to your father???

AND WE FINALLY GET A REACTION HERE

Lwj practically gasps and lifts his gaze to meet his uncle head-on

Lwj: my mother, she…!

Lqr: hold your tongue!

And just like that, lwj shuts down again; expression flat and gaze lowered

GOD, THIS CLAN HAS HURT HIM SO MUCH THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE

I MEAN, THEY MUST’VE, FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO JUST DISCONNECT LIKE THAT

THAT IS NOT THE BEHAVIOR OF A NORMAL WELL-ADJUSTED PERSON

Basically the entire lan clan needs to go to therapy, like, STAT

Oh, i just noticed, lwj has his fists clenched at his sides. He’s clenching them hard, too. I think they’re trembling a bit, actually…

Lqr: i’ve been taking care of you since you were a kid; you’re like my son.i was strict bc i wanted you to stick to the right path and avoid your father’s tragedy

Lqr: that’s what i wanted to say to you. I hope you choose the right path. You may leave.

Lwj still bows respectfully before taking his leave

And i’m sure y’all are wondering, hey trensu, why did you make us endure that angry lan fam time that hurt us deep in our soul?? That wasn’t wangxiantic at all!

That’s where you're wrong, my friends!

It’s actually SUPER wangxiantic bc lqr kept drawing parallels to lwj’s dad the practically whole time

You know, the dad that married their mother who murdered some guy and had the whole world turn against her. 

(Sound familiar?)

The same mother that dad loved with his entire being and did what he could to keep her safe from the ramifications of her actions? By marrying her? And hiding her in the cloud recesses?

YEAH, HE’S EQUATING WANGXIAN WITH LWJ’S PARENTS’ TRAGIC ROMANCE

Bc, you know, that’s a totally hetero comparison to make lol

Oh, now we get to see our favorite Disaster Het be less of a disaster

We’re not going into detail here bc we’re not here for hetero shenanigans, yuck (actually, i’m apparently weak to Pining Idiots of all kinds bc this whole jzx/jyl scene is giving me tender feelings)

BUT

I do want to add that OMG FOR REAL LWJ AND JZX HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR LOVE LIVES, IT’S FANTASTIC

I NEED 10 MILLION FICS OF THEM COMMISERATING OVER THEIR SHARED DISASTER-NESS

Also, how the HELL did jzx end up being the one who was able to express his intentions clearly? He was all “please don’t go to the burial mounds, stay here with me so i can protect you from all who would want to hurt you”

DAMN IT LWJ, IF YOU’D JUST SAY THAT TO WWX, HE’S UNDERSTAND WHAT’S GOING ON. 

YOU CAN’T JUST BE ALL “COME TO GUSU” WITH NO EXPLANATION

Jzx accomplished this before you did, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

Huh, okay, i guess i did go into a bit of detail with that hetero nonsense. Oh well.

Now we’re at the burial mounds again with wwx

AND WE SEE A-YUAN PROPERLY FOR THE FIRST TIMEEEEE!!

ANY A-YUAN MOMENT IS BY DEFAULT A WANGXIANTIC, GUYS, TRUST ME.

AAHHHH, WE SEE A-YUAN DO THAT LEG-GRABBY THING HE DOES!!!

HE’S SO CUTE. TOO ADORABLE.

I LOVE YOU A-YUAN

Lol, wwx is all if you don’t let go i’ll plant you like a turnip

And a-yuan plops himself down in the dirt like YOUR THREATS DON’T WORK ON ME, OLD MAN, I LIKE BEING IN THE DIRT

Then he asks wwx for 3 elder brothers and 2 elder sisters, awwww. He thinks wwx can grow them in the garden (like cabbage patch kids!!!)

Plot stuff happens

Blah blah wwx and wq share moment blah blah jc shows up blah blah

Lol

Jc sees that glowing talisman door thing and is like THAT SIGN WON’T STOP ME BC I CAN’T READ

And then whips it down with zidian

Now we get some feelings-laden Yunmeng bros time

A-yuan shows up and leg-grabs jc and it’s ADORABLE

But jc yells at him bc he’s a JERK

Wwx scolds jc and then is a Dad to a-yuan: don’t put your hand in your mouth, you were just touching dirt!

Awww, we get to see jc fight back a smile at this! HE WANTS TO BE AN UNCLE, I JUST KNOW IT.

Plot plot plot stuff happens

More plot stuff happens

And the episode ends with us still in the burial mounds with the yunmeng bros

And you know what, i’m just gonna focus on our BAMF mianmian moment bc quite frankly the rest of the episode either had me in tears of anguish or spitting mad. There was no inbetween. 

I’m gonna end up having blood pressure problems at this rate.

I’m too poor young to have blood pressure problems.

The Jin clan better pay for any medical bills I get because of them, I'm just saying

Return to Masterpost

[vespertineflora]

i am a simple woman, humbly requesting xiyao smut where lxc pins jgy to one of those Lan desks and fucks him like my man 100% wanted to do when they first met. no preference on top/bottom, idc what the sex acts are either, just some fun, steamy smut in a completely inappropriate place(no exhibitionism tho plz, it gives me 2nd hand embarrassment something fierce), but 100% no pressure for you to write this if you don't feel it and i hope you have a lovely day/week :)

thank you for this GEM, i had a blast writing it!!! since you didn’t have a preference, i had to go with botton lxc, especially with lxc holding jgy down, it just felt right, you know? hope you enjoy! 

(angstprompt!anon can look for their submission in the next few days probably! meanwhile, my ask box is open for xiyao (or any combo of 3zun) and wangxian prompts, which could result in anything from a drabble to a short fic like this one turned out haha)

~~~

Jin Guangyao arrived in Gusu much later than he’d intended--but Lan Xichen had invited him, and Jin Guangyao had so dearly wanted to come that he figured arriving late was better than not arriving at all. Nearly a month ago, Lan Xichen had given him a jade token that allowed him free passage through the barrier surrounding the Cloud Recesses, a gift that Jin Guangyao had appreciated very much, knowing how rare and special it was for Lan Xichen to be granting it to someone who was not a member of the Lan Sect. It had taken far longer than he would have liked to find time in his schedule to come visit, but he was finally here.

He made it inside the barrier just minutes before the Lan Sect’s strictly imposed curfew and was quickly escorted to the Hanshi... and the moment Lan Xichen’s dark eyes fell upon him, they lit up with warmth and delight, the smile on his lips becoming quickly more sincere than polite. He welcomed Jin Guangyao inside the room almost at once, greeting him in a way that hid none of his precious excitement at having Jin Guangyao there.

They chatted for a few moments, before Lan Xichen suggested, “It’s been so long since you’ve been in the Cloud Recesses, A-Yao. Would you like to take a walk around the grounds?”

There was a particular sort of mirth dancing in his eyes, a look that Jin Guangyao couldn’t quite put his finger on... but one he had no intention of questioning. He teased faintly, “But what about curfew, Er-Ge? Isn’t it past the time that disciples and guests are allowed outside?”

Lan Xichen just grinned a bit more playfully and countered,  “A good thing you’ll be with the Sect Leader then, isn’t it?”

Continue Reading on AO3 or below the cut :)

They stood to head out--though once they were in the yard, Lan Xichen paused suddenly, asking Jin Guangyao to wait for him a moment while he headed back inside, which Jin Guangyao found to be another oddity, though he was frankly too intrigued by Lan Xichen’s unexpected behavior to want to draw attention to the fact that he had noticed it. Whatever Lan Xichen had in mind, Jin Guangyao trusted it to be something he would enjoy.

As it was past curfew, the grounds of the Cloud Recesses were quite empty. Twilight was upon them, the last few rays of the sun sinking down behind the horizon and giving way to the overhead blanket of stars in the night sky. The moon wasn’t full, but it was close, and both the Cloud Recesses and Lan Xichen himself were gorgeous in the silver glow of the moonlight.

Due to their solitude, they didn’t fear walking close together, shoulders brushing as they strolled in companionable silence, glancing at one another from time to time as they passed by the buildings where the junior disciples slept, through the gardens, over to the library, and then finally back around to the Lanshi... where Lan Xichen paused, glancing around in a way that was the opposite of surreptitious, before he took Jin Guangyao by the hand and led him inside.

Jin Guangyao was usually one to try to figure out someone’s intentions before they could ever come to fruition. He usually hated not knowing what others had in mind, what they planned to do, especially where he was concerned... but, strangely, it wasn’t the same at all with Lan Xichen. Beyond knowing that Lan Xichen had intentions... Jin Guangyao couldn’t honestly say he knew what they were and hadn’t been at all bothered about finding out. It was exhilarating in a way, to trust Lan Xichen so deeply that he didn’t need to anticipate what his every move would be, didn’t need to nitpick everything he did or said to figure out each move he would ever make...

All he needed was the deep rooted knowledge that Lan Xichen adored him and would never do anything to hurt him.

It was dark inside the Lanshi as Lan Xichen shut the door behind them, with just enough moonlight slipping in through the screened windows that Jin Guangyao could still faintly make out Lan Xichen’s features, at least enough to see a bit of silver light in his eyes and the smile on his lips--before he leaned down to press their lips together, of course.

His hand moved to cradle Jin Guangyao’s face as Jin Guangyao’s hands moved naturally for Lan Xichen’s waist, their bodies gravitating naturally closer to one another as they kissed in the darkened classroom, breaking apart after a long minute as their foreheads pressed together, hovering close enough that Jin Guangyao could feel Lan Xichen’s semi-heated exhales against his lips.

“This is the first place we met,” Lan Xichen said. His volume was hardly more than that of a whisper, but in the absolute silence inside of the Lanshi, the words couldn’t have possibly been clearer. “Do you remember?”

Jin Guangyao felt the grin stretching across his lips as his thumb smoothed over the fabric of Lan Xichen’s robes. “Considering how close I came to death that day, how could I possibly forget?” he replied, giving Lan Xichen’s waist a playful squeeze. “You nearly gave me a heart attack.”

“Did I?” Lan Xichen huffed out a breath of laughter, pecking Jin Guangyao’s lips almost apologetically, “How so?”

“Mm, well, I was hardly more than a humble servant who had heard many stories of the noble Lan Sect, the disciples of which loved cleanliness, and wouldn’t dare touch others unless it was absolutely necessary,” Jin Guangyao recounted fondly. “Then, while I’m assisting my young master with presenting our Sect’s offering, I’m expecting to hand our gift over to some helpful disciple... when instead I am approached by none other than the sect leader himself, a young man so fantastically handsome that even the wildest rumors cannot overstate his beauty and grace.”

“A-Yao,” Lan Xichen protested with an almost-shy laugh, a sound that gave away the color on his cheeks that was otherwise unknowable in the dark room.

“And then,” Jin Guangyao continued on heedlessly, spinning his fanciful account together with a playful grin, “this stunningly gorgeous sect leader not only lavishes me with the most sincere flattery this lowly attendant could have imagined, but proceeds to brush his hands against mine--not once, but twice! Once, maybe, can be counted as an accident, no matter how intentionally those fingers seemed to slide across my hand, but then it happened again as the offering was taken from my hands! Imagine my shock as a meager assistant to be touched so deliberately by this elegant and comely young cultivator who I was led to believe would only touch others in the most dire of circumstances!”

Lan Xichen’s soft and flustered laugh was now shaking in his chest, enough for Jin Guangyao to feel it against his own chest with their bodies flush the way they were.

“Er-Ge, all I’m saying is that we’re both quite lucky I didn’t faint at that very moment!” Jin Guangyao said with faux insistence.

“Ah, but then I would have had an excuse to catch you,” Lan Xichen lamented cleverly.

Jin Guangyao was caught off guard by a faint hitch of his own laughter, before declaring, “Then I would have certainly passed from this world to the next! Though...” he trailed off as he pressed his lips again to Lan Xichen’s, “I can’t say that dying in your arms wouldn’t have been the ideal way to go.”

Lan Xichen let out a harder puff of laughter through his nose as their mouths pressed together, somewhat uncoordinated in their shared humor. Their grip on one another grew a bit tighter as they both smiled into the kiss and teasingly tasted one another’s mouths.

“Well,” Lan Xichen finally broke the kiss to speak up, “if that was enough to nearly kill you, then it was likely for the best you left as soon as you did. I was disappointed at the time... but if you’d stayed, you might have discovered my imagination had run quite a bit deeper than simply touching your hand.”

“Er-Ge!” Jin Guangyao gasped dramatically--genuinely surprised, but certainly exaggerating his reaction, “Are you saying you had impure thoughts about me back then?”

Lan Xichen shook with another quiet laugh as he leaned in to kiss Jin Guangyao again before replying, “So impure I found the need to retreat to the cold springs soon after you’d left.”

“Oh, really?” Jin Guangyao asked. For as much as he was playing up his responses, he was genuinely intrigued. He’d never realized that Lan Xichen had thought about him like that so very long ago. “And what exactly were these impure thoughts? Humble servant Meng Yao couldn’t have handled them, but Chief Cultivator Jin Guangyao is quite curious.”

“Ah... I’m not sure words would quite do them justice, honestly,” Lan Xichen said with a touch of wistful disappointment, before his voice took on a tone that was as equally playful, but in a very different way. “Perhaps... a demonstration is in order.”

Oh. Jin Guangyao's pulse fluttered and he had a feeling he’d suddenly stumbled upon Lan Xichen’s reason for bringing him out here in the first place.

“A demonstration would be acceptable,” Jin Guangyao replied, his lips brushing Lan Xichen’s teasingly, anticipation building now, his heart beating a little faster. “Would it be wrong to assume our location plays a part in this demonstration?”

“As a matter of fact...” Lan Xichen trailed off playfully, then leaned down to kiss him, and as he started to walked Jin Guangyao backwards, Jin Guangyao followed easily, right up until the back of his knees bumped gently into one of the desks arranged neatly in the room--at which point, Lan Xichen dropped quickly to his knees in front of him, aiming an appeased smile up at him as his hands made quick work of the sash holding Jin Guangyao’s robes in place. They slipped inside as soon as they could, locking onto his hips and giving them a gentle tug; Jin Guangyao gave in to Lan Xichen’s strength, letting himself get pulled down as his ass landed firmly on the sturdy wooden desk behind him.

If Jin Guangyao had to guess, based simply on how little time Lan Xichen was wasting, this fantasy was something he found quite pressing. Jin Guangyao hadn’t even found time to get hard yet as Lan Xichen was working his pants loose and reaching inside to free him, his hand giving Jin Guangyao’s cock a few eager strokes that quickly helped it twitch to life.

Jin Guangyao’s breathing picked up as quick as his arousal came on, legs spreading to let Lan Xichen get his body between them as he was using his own free hand to open his robes; as soon as Jin Guangyao’s cock was half-hard though, Lan Xichen’s focus was pulled from his task as his mouth quickly descended on Jin Guangyao.

Jin Guangyao’s breath hitched as Lan Xichen didn’t hesitate to wrap his lips around it. He sucked on the head, his tongue swirling around it, lapping eagerly across it, so sudden and hot that Jin Guangyao couldn't help the low moan that rolled out of him. His hands automatically reached for Lan Xichen’s hair, pushing his fingers into it and messing up the neat strands of it almost immediately, though it wasn’t something he could regret; he loved it when Lan Xichen came undone for him, when he sacrificed any amount of his neat appearance in favor of giving in to their shared desire for one another, particularly on the rare occasion when he took charge like this, eagerly taking whatever he wanted--something Jin Guangyao would allow only from Lan Xichen.

In the heat of Lan Xichen’s mouth, it took hardly any time at all before Jin Guangyao was hard, his breaths huffing faintly as his finger tightened and released their grip on Lan Xichen’s hair, fingernails scratching lightly at his scalp in a way that had Lan Xichen humming around his cock, only heightening the arousal buzzing through him.

Clear thought only flooded back to him the moment after Lan Xichen’s mouth and hand pulled back from his cock. The situation was certainly something to wrap his mind around--he hadn’t been in the Lanshi in so many years, but he last remembered it full of students, quiet and serious. Now, his first time back in the Cloud Recesses in so long and his first time back in the Lanshi in even longer, he suddenly found himself in quite the position.

His eyes were fastened on Lan Xichen as he opened his robes, shoved down his pants, and as he reached into his sleeve to produce a bottle of oil, which told Jin Guangyao everything he needed to know about how much Lan Xichen had planned for this to happen.

It was nearly hypnotizing to watch Lan Xichen for a moment, slicking his fingers quickly and liberally. Jin Guangyao’s gaze followed them as Lan Xichen reached behind himself, seeming to shudder as his fingers slid between his cheeks--the expression on his face was heavenly, lips parted as his breath shuddered, brows knitted ever so slightly in a way that told Jin Guangyao he’d skipped over using a single finger and had jumped right in with two. Tragically, Jin Guangyao couldn’t see the stretch of Lan Xichen’s rim as he started to finger himself, but from his vantage point he could easily watch the rocking motion of Lan Xichen’s hand working behind him, and that was more than enough.

Lan Xichen didn’t leave him just to watch though. After just a moment, he leaned back in, his free hand moving once more to Jin Guangyao’s cock, holding it in place as his lips wrapped around it again.

The show was enough to leave Jin Guangyao dizzy. He leaned back a little, hands gripping the desk behind him to support himself as he watched in awe: Lan Xichen’s mouth bobbing faintly around his cock as Lan Xichen’s hand seemed to move in tandem behind him. That motion only paused after a moment for what Jin Guangyao figured was a chance to press in a third finger, an action that elicited a sharper moan from Lan Xichen's throat that vibrated lightly around the head of his cock as Lan Xichen took it deeper into his mouth.

Jin Guangyao moaned deeper, his fingers tightening in a telling way on Lan Xichen’s hair--and Lan Xichen seemed to get the message, as he pulled his lips slowly back from Jin Guangyao’s cock, sitting up a little as he seemed to work his fingers quicker inside, leaning back a little as if straining with the effort to get them in deeper, though all it really did was allow Lan Xichen robes to fall away from his chest, treating Jin Guangyao with a glimpse of his dusky pink nipples, just making the scene set in the Lan Sect classroom even more erotic.

By the time Lan Xichen pulled his fingers out of himself, seemingly deciding he was open enough, he sat panting and whimpering ever so faintly for a few seconds, as if he’d scattered his own thoughts by doing such a thing so on display for Jin Guangyao. Unable to help himself, Jin Guangyao leaned forward to capture Lan Xichen’s lips quickly, to take advantage and dip his tongue deep between his parted lips, Lan Xichen letting out another shuddery moan around his tongue as he kissed him back fervently, his body leaning further and further into Jin Guangyao’s space.

As he felt Lan Xichen starting to push him backwards, across the length of the desk, Jin Guangyao went down easily enough, a true testament to the depth of his trust for Lan Xichen. His upper body fit near perfectly across the length of it from ass to head, just barely reached the edges, as if the surface was nearly made for him to lie on like this--or, more likely, as if Lan Xichen had imagined this enough time to know Jin Guangyao would fit on the desk like this, and wasn’t that an erotic thought?

Again, Jin Guangyao couldn’t help but note how impatient Lan Xichen seemed to be, as he seemed to only bother to remove his pants from one leg--all he needed to lift himself up and properly straddle Jin Guangyao over the desk, reaching for Jin Guangyao’s cock, lining it up with his entrance, and then lowering himself in a motion that was at least somewhat practiced at this point. Jin Guangyao’s hands quickly reached for Lan Xichen’s thigh, gripping onto him as the overwhelming heat of his body sunk down around Jin Guangyao’s eager cock, consuming him little by little--until in a whirlwind of huffed breaths shared between the two of them, Lan Xichen’s body was lowered fully around his cock, his ass resting gently over his hips.

They sat like that for a moment, a look of ecstasy splashed across Lan Xichen’s features that had Jin Guangyao entirely captivated, before, slowly, Lan Xichen started to rock his hips.

The movement was gentle---but even that little started to draw a series of soft keens from Lan Xichen’s mouth, soft little ‘ahh’ sounds that seemed to escape with every exhale, as if Lan Xichen was aroused by where they were doing this as much as by the actual physical sensations.

Jin Guangyao fought his way out of his awed stupor at that thought, a grin rising to his face as his hands began to knead his fingertips up and down Lan Xichen’s sturdy thighs. Almost without prompting, Lan Xichen’s hips began to rock quicker--he even lifted his hips, before letting them sink back down, once, twice, a third time, before the roll of his hips was one solid motion that was growing quicker and quicker--

Without much ado, Lan Xichen’s hands snapped to grab onto Jin Guangyao’s wrists as his body tightened its grip on Jin Guangyao, followed a few seconds later by a soft whimper and the soft, wet streak of cum hitting Jin Guangyao’s stomach.

But Lan Xichen’s movements only paused for maybe a minute or so, before his hips had picked up that gentle rocking motion once again, as motivated as if under some lustful spell that made him unable to help himself except to keep Jin Guangyao’s cock moving inside of him.

Jin Guangyao’s hands started once more massaging Lan Xichen’s thighs--but only a moment later, he found himself surprised as Lan Xichen moved their hands, intertwined their fingers... and then began to lean over him, moving him until his hands were pinned down to the desk beside his head, Lan Xichen’s face wearing an incredibly blissed out expression as it hovered barely a couple feet above him, strands of his long hair slipping over his shoulders, a few stay bits Jin Guangyao’s fingers had shoved loose hanging around his face.

Seeing as Jin Guangyao was quite trapped now, speech was the only tool left in his arsenal--and he certainly had plenty to say.

“How much have you thought about this, Er-Ge?” he asked, voice low and sultry, clearly catching on Lan Xichen’s ears immediately. “Is this really what you wanted back then? To hold me down and ride my cock like this?”

Lan Xichen didn’t answer, but Jin Guangyao felt the way he shuddered at the words, the flicker of change in his expression, and could pick up on the truth easily enough.

“Maybe it is for the best you didn’t do this all those years ago,” he said with a touch more humor, agreeing with Lan Xichen’s earlier statement. “I don’t think I would have survived it back then.”

The corners of Lan Xichen’s mouth twitched upwards, and he left out a pointedly amused huff--which was quickly turned into a soft keen as Jin Guangyao leveraged his feet against the floor to roll his hips up a few sharp times, before he settled once more.

“When do you have these thoughts, hm?” he continued, eyes trained on Lan Xichen’s face, “Do you fantasize about me while you’re falling asleep at night? While you’re trying to relax in your cold springs? Or maybe... maybe while you’re in here teaching or reading off your sect rules, you’re actually thinking about getting fucked by me? If you’ve had these thoughts since the first time we met, you’ve had so many years to fantasize about us fucking, surely you’ve thought about it in here too.”

Lan Xichen’s brow furrowed faintly, a shudder running through him as his hole tightened around Jin Guangyao’s cock, fingers gripping more firmly around his hands, obviously affected by the words even if he hadn’t replied verbally.

“Well, whether you have or not until now...” Jin Guangyao prattled on, his tone as low and seductive as ever, “You definitely will from now on, won’t you? Tell me the truth, Er-Ge. Will you think about how you rode my cock so wonderfully every time you’re in this room now?”

“Yes,” Lan Xichen gasped out faintly, compliantly, his hips grinding down a little more firmly a few times before returning to the previous pace.

“Promise me, Er-Ge,” he compelled him sweetly, voice nearly all breath now, yet still so clear in the ringing silence of the classroom. “Every time you’re in the Lanshi, I want you to remember how you fingered yourself open while sucking my cock. I want you to think about how desperate you were to pin me down and get my cock inside of you. You’ll promise to think of me every time you look at this desk that we’re fucking on, won’t you, Er-Ge?”

The faint moonlight didn’t allow for much color perception, but Lan Xichen’s cheeks were so flushed after all of Jin Guangyao’s rambling that he could see how dark they’d gotten even now.

“I promise,” Lan Xichen panted, his hips starting to move a little quicker again, a little more urgent. “A-Yao, I promise.”

He couldn’t move much, but his thumbs stroked the outside of Lan Xichen’s hands from where they were pinned to the desk. He let out a pleased hum and almost purred as he said, “Thank you, Er-Ge.” Lan Xichen could be so easily flustered when he got like this, and Jin Guangyao considered it a delicacy, something to be truly savored. “Do you want to come together this time?”

“Yes, yes,” Lan Xichen exhaled sharply again. His hips rolling down a little harder, his breaths getting more desperate.

Jin Guangyao adjusted to Lan Xichen’s pace, then started to roll his hips back up at Lan Xichen, meeting the downward motion of his body and forcing his cock a little deeper inside, creating a slight thrust that only increased the delicious friction around his cock, and that made Lan Xichen’s soft moans get a little more heated as his second orgasm drew closer.

Their bodies moved in harmony, a practiced motion after so many years, Lan Xichen lifting himself up a bit so that he could drop his body back onto Jin Guangyao’s cock with each thrust, and the silence of the room was completely eaten up by the wet sound of Jin Guangyao’s cock moving in and out of Lan Xichen’s tight hole, by the soft smack of their skin meeting at the end of each thrust and the increased panting of their breaths, by Lan Xichen’s rising whimpers and moans.

Jin Guangyao felt his pleasure plateauing as Lan Xichen’s body rocked more urgently, as aroused by Lan Xichen’s desperation to fulfill this fantasy as he was amused by it, his senses all a flutter in Lan Xichen’s telling reactions and noises giving away exactly how close he was, noises that would have given them away in an instant if this weren’t so far past the Lan Sect curfew that left all the disciples thankfully out of hearing range of the Lanshi. The one thing that Lan Xichen had yet to master (and perhaps the thing Jin Guangyao hoped he never would) was the ability to actually keep his voice down the closer he got to his orgasm.

Waiting for Lan Xichen, Jin Guangyao took a few deep, hard breaths, skillfully forcing his own orgasm back, letting it balance right on that delicate edge, because he could tell that Lan Xichen was going to come at any second--and just as he thought, barely a minute later, Lan Xichen’s face pressed down against his chest as he let out a sharp cry, the clenching of his hole around Jin Guangyao’s cock finally pushing him over the precipice with a sharp breath of his own as he released deep inside of Lan Xichen.

His grip loosened, but Lan Xichen didn’t let go of Jin Guangyao’s hands, not immediately, as they both laid there panting in the dark room. Jin Guangyao’s face pressed to Lan Xichen’s hair, showing him the only affection he could at the moment as he nuzzled him gently.

They stayed entangled for several long minutes, until Lan Xichen finally seemed to get his strength back. He lifted his head and sought out Jin Guangyao’s mouth with his own, kissing him as he slowly lifted his hips; Jin Guangyao felt Lan Xichen shuddering faintly as his cock slid out of him before his body settled back over him.

“You know,” Jin Guangyao spoke up after a moment, his words faintly muffled by Lan Xichen’s mouth, “I almost feel sorry for whoever’s desk this is.”

Lan Xichen broke away from the kiss as he broke into a silent laugh, burying his face against Jin Guangyao’s neck again, his hands finally releasing Jin Guangyao’s. It meant Jin Guangyao was free to slide his arms up under Lan Xichen’s robe and wrap around his back comfortably, letting his fingernails trail lightly across the smooth skin and firm muscle for a little while as the both of them gradually settled down.

Eventually, Lan Xichen said they should head back and Jin Guangyao agreed. Lan Xichen had luckily picked a very secluded spot for this little adventure, but the longer they stayed here, the higher the risk was that someone would discover them like this. They both knew they would be shedding their robes as soon as the door of the Hanshi shut behind them, so they redressed just enough to look proper in case they encountered any patrolling disciples on the way; Jin Guangyao even took a minute to carefully comb his fingers over Lan Xichen’s hair, smoothing it out and pointedly straightening the ribbon across his forehead, much to Lan Xichen’s embarrassed delight.

Jin Guangyao had mostly been teasing Lan Xichen... but as they slipped out of the Lanshi and headed back towards Lan Xichen’s room, Jin Guangyao couldn’t helped be be thoroughly amused by the idea that it really would be quite impossible for Lan Xichen to be in the Lanshi  without thinking about him now; there was something deliciously entertaining about the idea of Lan Xichen having to fight back his arousal every time he had to come teach a class. Perhaps it was only fair after their many, many escapades throughout Carp Tower had led to many fond memories for Jin Guangyao, that Lan Xichen would now have some of his own memories at home. In fact...

“If this is how I’m treated when I’m here, I’m going to have to visit more often,” Jin Guangyao said as a smile curled at the corner of his lips, his arm slipping casually and yet quite boldly around Lan Xichen’s as he settled against his side.

Lan Xichen flashed a flustered smile down at him, but held Jin Guangyao’s arm a bit closer to his side as he replied, “You’re welcome here any time, A-Yao.”

They had more memories to make, and Jin Guangyao was now quite curious about what other sorts of fantasies Lan Xichen had been having about him all this time.

[sleepymarmot]

Re-liveblog: eps. 22-23

[ep 22]

Ooh, Meng Yao as a spy makes more sense. I was thinking about Qing or Ning and wondering since when either of them counted as Xichen’s “old friend”.

I, of course, immediately accepted he was a spy, even before he was textually declared as such and only just appeared as WRH’s right-hand man. It wasn’t until very recently that my eyes were opened to the fact he did lure the army into a trap, a trap that he personally designed, and the battle was only won thanks to WWX and his secret weapon, which MY couldn’t have predicted, in the show at least. So what was his plan? Was it different in the book? Why would he put LXC in harm’s way, when MY|JGY defined their entire relationship by the avoidance of that? 

We’ll only see this in the flashback, but I find it very curious that he let NMJ see his true face and live. And in this episode, we see reaction shots of MY being concerned when NMJ is losing the fight -- and since nobody is looking at him, this reaction must be genuine. Which implies that he is not committed to the Wen cause, and is keeping in mind the consequences of their defeat. It would have been a very bad look for him if the allies won and discovered NMJ recently died in his custody. Too bad MY miscalculated how important the lives of those random Nie cultivators would be to NMJ. If only Meng Yao did anything but kill them, I suspect the course of his relationship with NMJ would run very different.

(It’s also funny that the battle plan includes Missiles That Make People Explode... That are used on a couple of redshirts and not, say, on anyone crucial to the allied war effort, and are never mentioned again. And then WWX stands around for about 10 more minutes before deciding to do something. The direction of this scene is... not the best.)

[ep 23]

It’s painful to watch the fear and reverence Meng Yao still holds for his father figure. The flinching, the hiding, the immediate supplication – when was the last time he felt safe and respected, before the bullying with the Nie and having to watch and even partake in atrocities with the Wen? I hope he can finally have some good things in his life now.

First of all, it’s very funny in retrospect to see myself constantly refer to NMJ as MY’s father figure. Well, it’s not my fault that I wasn’t shown the full scene where MY seductively strokes NMJ’s saber until much later! (Although to be completely fair, considering what JGY eventually did to his father, and what else he did in the tv show knowingly as opposed to accidentally in the novel, maybe these interpretations aren’t as incompatible.)

The interesting thing here is that I, once again, completely bought what MY was selling to NMJ with considerably less success... So my interpretation of this scene was completely off-base -- but on another level, I still agree with my initial assessment. 

I pitied MY when I thought the immediate overperformance of submission was his natural unfiltered reaction. Now I find it notable that this is the behavior he intentionally chooses -- both as the default survival mechanism over the course of his life, and in this specific scene. And in this scene, this behavior is targeted at and fine-tuned for LXC -- but not NMJ. 

The very first thing MY learned about LXC is his protective instinct over him. The best manipulation is not a lie but the truth with certain omissions; he is afraid for his life when a strong angry man he just wronged is brandishing a giant blade at him -- isn’t it nice to have another strong man whose protection you can guarantee by jumping behind his back and grasping at his clothes helplessly? I mean, it’s not much else he can do in this situation, and when I was watching for the first time, I of course didn’t know he had actually killed people in cold blood a few minutes ago, so in this context his apologetic attitude makes more sense, he should be acting like that. But LXC doesn’t know either, just like a first-time viewer! When MY triggers LXC’s protective instinct by crying for his help personally, presenting it as “us against them” (them as NMJ, in this case), LXC doesn’t see the manipulation. When MY shifts the blame on NMJ -- “It's as you can see. In the situation a moment ago, even if I explained, Clan Leader Nie wouldn’t believe me” -- NMJ sees through the bullshit and even laughs at it, but the spectacle isn’t for him, it's for LXC. And NMJ can see it -- he watches MY the damsel in distress tenderly touch the arm of his valiant defender, watches the tidy, polite, performative way MY kneels to apologize, and sighs -- he knows MY has won this round. At least over LXC. 

But in addition to what NMJ already knows and what MY has not repaired, MY makes another important mistake. This part of the scene will only be shown in the ep. 41 flashback, but MY still doesn’t understand NMJ’s worldview and apologizes only for insulting him personally. He not only fails to apologize for taking innocent lives, but tries to defend his decision. 

Does MY still care for NMJ? From his concern in the previous episode, it does seem so. Does MY still hope to regain NMJ’s favor? Maybe, but due to a combination of not understanding and not prioritizing NMJ, this is instead the scene where MY loses that favor forever. 

The above only applies to The Untamed. In the book (chapter 49) the dynamic is very different. When NMJ awakes, MY is carrying him and Baxia to safety alone. In the show, LXC is present from the beginning of the scene, and MY feels safe enough to play them against each other. In the book, he has no means to protect himself and is absolutely terrified. A very interesting paragraph:

He suddenly shouted, “ChiFeng-Zun!!! Don’t you understand that if I didn’t kill them, you’d be the one who died then?!!”

This was actually the same as saying, ‘I’m the one who saved your life so you can’t kill me or else it’d be immoral.’ However, Jin GuangYao was indeed worthy of his reputation. The same meaning but a different wording, and he was able to create a contained sense of frustration and a reserved sense of sorrow. As he had expected, Nie MingJue’s movement halted. Veins stood out under his forehead.

Having paused for a while, he clenched the hilt of his saber and shouted, “Very well! I’ll kill myself after I kill you!”

In the show, NMJ is already selfless and offended only on behalf of his murdered subordinates -- but the book takes it further, and he’s ready to sacrifice his own life if it means avenging them. Then the entire next paragraph is an almost comical chase where “one striked with madness and the other fled with madness”. When LXC finally showed up, “Meng Yao looked as if he had just seen a god from Heaven. He quickly scrambled over and hid behind the person’s back”. 

In other words, the full scene in the book reads almost exactly as the incomplete version of it in episode 23 looked to me on the first viewing. There’s no layer of manipulation -- Meng Yao simply is terrified of one man and seeks protection from another. And most of the dialogue is the same -- but just via the staging and acting choices, the scene gains a second, darker meaning. Which fits with the show’s tendency to villify Jin Guangyao. He can’t even beg for his life without it being a manipulation! What in the book was a wholly sympathetic moment of desperation for him, in the show is made calculated and two-faced.

Back to The Untamed!

LOVE how Xichen immediately calls him “A-Yao” while standing right between his shitty fathers

Lol, this was truly a moment for the ages! Too bad we only saw NMJ’s reaction (because he was in the frame with LXC) -- I really want a reaction shot from JGS to this!

The following private conversation between JGY and LXC caused me almost physical pain on rewatch... A note from this (third, I think?) viewing: the line “I’ve followed Clan Leader Nie for so long. I know his intentions. I have also never taken it to heart before” which is a perfect continuation of the previous scene: JGY paints NMJ as unreasonable, and himself as selfless and accommodating. Oh, and of course makes LXC say “No-no of course I didn’t mean you were evil!!” I also continue to feel like I’m the one stabbed in the heart by their sad smiles, when they both know something is ending but can’t or won’t talk about it -- but I’m preaching to the choir here.

What I do want to comment on is another thing missing from the written liveblog -- on my first viewing I apparently misunderstood the conclusion of the scene. What I thought was happening: JGY did proceed to enact the plan he described; the “old, weak, women, and children” he offers to send to Qiongqi Path were sent there, and were the same group of people later rescued by WWX and led to Burial Mounds; the small group of people JGY had with him under arrest are “those who really had a hand in the bloodshed” whom he openly proposes to execute, to which LXC agrees; and the twist at the end is that he relished in overseeing or even performing the execution himself, seemingly in a very brutal way. 

But according to this analysis, which I trust, JGY immediately broke his word and executed the innocent prisoners that he promised to only imprison. This would definitely make more sense for the drama of the scene and the meaningful look JGS gives him... But there were only few people under arrest in this scene, and none seemed too old or too young, and where in this case did the Wen remnants of the Qiongqi Path who latter committed the Burial Mounds exodus come from?

[Episodes 4&10]

[somepinkthing]

So here's my take on the JGY vs NMJ question. And fair warning, it is a bit harsh to both of them but particularly to JGY because a) this post was originally just about him and b)... well.... all the cold-blooded murder.... and stuff

I'll be honest, both NMJ and JGY are way too extreme and unwilling to budge or listen imo. But if pushed, I would say NMJ is the less extreme one. NMJ is less extreme than JGY just based on what he asks of people. NMJ expects honesty and for people to own up to their actions. He takes it too far but you can still understand the basis of his thinking. JGY wants people to excuse his tendency towards murder because of what he felt at that moment. A little harder to swallow

NMJ's problem isn't that he's wrong but that he doesn't know how to mitigate himself enough to listen to JGY or take in other factors. He doesn't know how to explain his own reasoning back either. He is on the side of justice and ideals, almost naively so. He doesn't hear what other people are saying, doesn't see that reasons are important even if they aren't excuses. He needed to be more empathetic but that doesn't neccesarily mean he should have changed his opinion. Right theory, wrong approach. It's good to have a strong sense of justice but less good to let it overtake your rationality and ability to hear what others are saying

On the other hand, fandom tends to paint JGY as mild in comparison. Like this guy isn't one extreme or the other. He was just in the middle. I wholeheartedly disagree. JGY is the other end of the spectrum. Ideals and morals don't exist so he'll just do anything he wants. As long as his reason makes sense to him, it should make sense to everyone as long as he's given the chance to explain. Anyone who refuses to see his side is either being naive or arrogant. In that sense he is equally as unwilling to understand other people's emotions as NMJ was. JGY is a character that facinates me both with how well he's written and the varying reactions he draws from people. But sometimes its hard to find sympathy for him. Tbh he's off the rails and a bit delusional

And the truth is, neither of them could have changed these things about each other. There is only so much one person can do to change another. Did LXC's pleas reach either of them? Did NHS's? Did Qin Su or Su She's love change JGY? It made an impact, sure, but ultimately it was up to the two of them to do something about it. And while we acknowledge that NMJ was didn't think about JGY's point of view, I'd argue JGY was just as bad. He just could not understand why no one would show him the sympathy he thought he deserved, why NMJ would be angry at him for doing the things he did. In his mind, the world somehow owed him something and he refused to see it any other way. He could consider other people's point of view but he was just as bad as NMJ when it came to truly understanding

Do I think NMJ could have taken some time to understand nuances? Explained his own reasoning better? Oh absolutely. NMJ could have taken a step back on multiple occasions. But ultimately, he was also right. Or at least not wrong. The fact that he didn't approach the accusations he made correctly does not mean JGY is somehow the sympathetic party. Don't get me wrong, I hear what JGY was saying. I agree that there are things that people born into comfort and power wouldn't understand about the other side. That there are some things people feel they have to do because of their lack of security. But there are also some very basic hard truths that exist for everyone that JGY seems to think doesn't apply to him. You don't turn to premeditated murder when life gets unfair. You don't get a free pass on everything just because you did it for your dad. Desperation is not an excuse for abandoning morality. Or for murder. JGY should not have killed that jin guy. He should not have stabbed someone trying to help him. He should have taken at least partial responsibility for xue yang, at least enough to speak up and stop his father from allowing XY to escape or not helping him do it. But he'll never see it that way. In his mind, he never had a choice. In his mind, to choose to do the right thing is never an option. In his mind, people only don't understand his reasoning because they are arrogant and look down on him. The idea that he'd sound insane to literally anyone, that his motives are beyond the point of comprehension, doesn't truly register with him. To the bitter end he somehow believed LXC owed him love and understanding. To the bitter end he was unable to see why he would horrify people

Even people empathetic to JGY were disgusted by him in the end. WWX, LXC, NHS, LWJ, JL--all of them saw his POV but they still knew. In the end, there are things that you can do for recognition and to make yourself feel better and there are things that you can't. Lines are crossed by pretty much every character but JGY shatters the line between morality and monstrous with alarming regularity purely for his own gain and, here's the kicker, with no intention to stop. Because JGY doesn't truly consider other people's point of view either nor does he think he was completely wrong. If NMJ is one extreme, JGY is just the other side of the same coin. JGY didn't listen to others, didn't really try to understand how his crimes affected others, and wouldn't consider that he was in the wrong even despite knowing how despicable his actions were. He says he knows he was but the way he acted in the end showed that he still thought that his reasons were sound. That at least he had a reason. That's what made him especially dangerous imo

[peerless-soshi]

Final thoughts about Nie HuaiSang...

...and how he never lied, and became the mother of WangXian. Twice. 

CONTAINS MAJOR SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 109 AND CHAPTER 110. DO NOT READ IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE SPOILED.

I find it really interesting how, in the end, MXTX decided to not expose NHS as a mastermind behind JGY’s fall. It was heavily implied that he was the person who sent the letters, and the final scene with NHS picking JGY’s hat seems to be a closing wink for the reader. But even so, it was never confirmed and WWX specially points how they have no evidence. NHS’s role could be just a misunderstanding. Maybe MXTX didn’t want us to be sure and we are supposed to wonder what is true and what is false? Or maybe the whole reason lies in showing who is the perfect liar? A hint: not JGY.

As WWX said and I’m going to repeat, it’s nothing more than a speculation. My opinion. But I'm having second thoughts about NHS being the cruel mastermind and even more, the perfect liar. At least not in the way that JGY suspected it. Right before his death, JGY screams “HuaiSang, you’re truly impressive. How unexpected for me to fall in your hands like this…“ and I feel this line tricked a lot of readers into thinking that NHS’s fear and timidity was nothing but a facade, a part of the plan. Personally, I don’t think it was the case? NHS’s style of lying seems to be based on something completely different than JGY’s lies, and his finale mistake was to judge NHS with his own standards. 

First of all, to assume that NHS only pretended to be good-for-nothing in order to avoid suspicion would mean that his plan started long time ago - too long time ago, when his brother was still alive. Back then, NHS had no reason to play dumb. When we meet him in the Gusu school, he’s truly cowardly and lacks ability and will to learn. If he has no reason to lie, my conclusion is: the NHS we saw in the school was the true NHS. Because what would he gain? Nothing. Still, we got a bunch of very useful (in the light of recent events) information. 

First, WWX never, even once, treated NHS like an idiot. Of course, he wasn’t a good student. But I think it was clear that NHS was stubborn and put efforts only in things he was passionate about, ignoring things that bored him. WWX says “It wasn’t that he was not clever, but that his heart was set somewhere else and used his smarts on other areas, such as painting on fans, searching for birds, skipping classes, and catching fish". WWX says it - NHS was clever! His talents were just too different from proper cultivaton talents; thus he was considered stupid, a head-shaker. I now wonder... let me ask you, how did someone like NHS found out about JGY’s murder? We know JGY was extremely careful, he left almost no hints. And seeing something off in qi deprivation? NHS, who did so poor in cultivation? It’s impossible. Unless he found truth by looking at things he was good at - for example, at the music. And music is a very interesting topic since it plays a big role in MDZS. LWJ and his brother are praised for their musical knowledge and WWX realizes that he can use a flute to control evil energy. Then JGY uses music to kill NMJ. It’s the key word: uses. For all those characters music is a weapon they can use in their cultivation and for this reason they are admired, while in NHS’s case, the art of any kind was separated from cultivation and fighting, and because of that totally useless. I think it is very interesting to wonder whether this whole ‘being lazy’ turned out to be NHS’s most powerful weapon. If NHS learned about music, he could hear something smoothing in LXC’s playing and then something strange in JGY’s music. Connect the dots. But it’s just a theory. 

Then, NHS is described as a coward and pretty much... every scene with him proves it. Almost. It depends on what we consider to be cowardly. For sure NHS didn’t have enough courage to stand face to face with his brother and tell him openly that he doesn’t want to practice, but it didn’t stop him from not learning and skipping classes. Let me tell you, I find it a type of bravery, though a very specific one. It’s hard to say if NMJ was truly cruel to NHS - we know that JC’s ‘I’ll break your legs’ is more of a catchphrase than an actual threat, and NHS is a chicken contrasting with NMJ’s explosive personality, what gives us a poor picture - but even if he wasn’t beating his brother, NMJ was still frightening in NHS’s eyes. Shouldn’t NHS put twice as much effort in learning to escape from his brother’s anger? Yes. And here we are - he didn’t! Never! Even when he was afraid! Instead, he was doing whatever he could to trick his brother into thinking he’s trying to learn. Meanwhile, NHS was avoiding classes. He brought porn to the Cloud Recess although he knew about the rules and punishments. Would a coward do it? I doubt. But it’s all about being caught. Nothing more. In all this, we see NHS’s philosophy - it’s scary, but only if done openly. Nobody is dangerous if they don’t know about your faults. And this is how MXTX introduces NHS to us; he’s a master of escaping from responsibilities, pretending to care and making the stronger one believe he care. Even if NHS started with classes and finished on plotting a murder, I think his personality is very consistent and that’s why I don’t think he was lying, JGY misinterprets his intentions - NHS didn’t just pretend to be scared, rather he was scared to death... and that’s what he did the only thing he could. Made sure nobody knows the truth. 

NHS was not only good at avoiding responsibilities and running from his brother (the stronger one). MXTX also made sure to show us that NHS knows how to use people. When he was in school, he was painfully aware that he wouldn’t win alone, thus searching for help in WWX. It’s another thing we know about NHS - he has no problem with pushing his duties onto others, and even more, leaving others to do it for him. His friendship with WWX was build on little lies - WWX was supposed to help NHS with tests and in return, NHS copied texts for WWX. As you see, they both knew how to slip between the rules and lie here and there. Now, hear me and look how it goes with WWX and LWJ’s relationship: though the met on the wall of the Gusu Cloud Recess, back then they didn’t know much about each other. LWj noticed WWX but he wasn’t a type to approach strangers while WWX tried to befriend LWJ, but still didn’t drag him by force. If it continued like that, they would never fall for each other. But then something happened.  NHS couldn’t do something alone. He asked WWX for help. He got caught.  WWX was punished and forced to copy in the library. LWJ was monitoring him. The punishment was the first opportunity to spend more time together and get to know each other.  And now we have the present times, and NHS who has no idea how to deal with his brother’s corpse. A plan appears in his mind. He needs WWX’s help. He can use him and make him do it. WWX is also aware that it couldn’t be a coincidence for the Lan Sect to be present in the same place he was reborn, yet he doesn’t list any reasons... And what if NHS knew? Leaving WWX all along in the world full of enemies could be dangerous for the mission NHS planned, but if he was one of few people who actually noticed something deeper in WWX and LWj’s relationship, deceiving LWJ to go to the Mo village and find WWX was only an insurance. 

Maybe I’m like WWX and add more than it’s necessary? But I truly think that NHS was scared and good-for-nothing, so in his fear he used dirty methods his brother would hate, used people to achieve his goal. Still, NHS was the reason WWX and LWJ got together. Twice. And still, JGY was afraid only of NMJ, in the end dying because of NHS. I think it’s all a very good parallel. 

[lucifermeo]

Thoughts on the final fates of the Sunshot generation

So I already made a post about how I thought the ending of MDZS was perfect to me but aside from whether that ending concludes the story appropriately or not, I’ve also been thinking about the specific fates of each character after the story closes, especially characters from the Sunshot generation. That’s when I realise something really interesting to me:

Not counting WWX himself (who has special main character halo - as Shen Qingqiu would put it), the only people with absolutely happy endings from that generation are Lan Wangji and Mian Mian. ‘Coincidentally’, they also are the only ones who defended the Wen survivors after they were rescued by WWX AND did not partake in the siege on Burial Mound to kill not only him but the rest of the Wen family from Wen Qing’s branch.

That makes me think actually, does MXTX intentionally give HE to the ‘good’ folks? Usually, I’m careful not to read into authorial intent at every single detail - MXTX doesn’t necessarily want to say some greater message with every sentence she put in the story. For example, things like Nie Mingjue’s death at the hand of JGY is a natural progression of his character - he is too self-righteous and suspicious of JGY for JGY to ever tolerate him living, and too straightforward to ever suspect JGY could (literally) play him into qi deviation. There are also things that are realistic, such as while the Wen Qing branch of the family is technically good people who only focus on healing, there was really no way for them to live. The cultivation world was high on their victory and revenge, sooner or later, they were going to die. The survival of Wen Yuan (later Lan Sizhui) is a stretch of imagination enough as it is. Other things like the grotesque deaths of both JGY and JGS are rather typical fates of villains and greedy people.

But I can’t stop thinking about people like Jiang Cheng or Lan Xichen. Well, typically they’d be good people, right? By virtue of relation alone, JC is WWX’s childhood friend and brother, WWX doesn’t hate him, and LXC has always been LWJ’s beloved brother. I always thought it’s not impossible that MXTX writes them a happier ending (or at least improve their canon ending in the extras). So I’m starting to entertain the thought that she just doesn’t want to/ she left them like they are because they ‘deserve’ it. JC both did not defend WWX during the rescued Wen fiasco (went as far as going to burial mounds, attacking an unconscious WN, and suggesting WWX kill them all) and led the siege himself. LXC did clarify that Wen Qing branch did not participate in any of the Wen crimes, but he didn’t defend their rights to live either. In the end, whether he was pushed into participating in the siege because he is a sect leader or he voluntarily joined, that didn’t change the end result that the horde of them barged onto Burial Mound to kill old people and children. And I’ve always thought MXTX was pretty explicit that the ‘killing Wens’ part of the Burial Mound siege was unjustifiable, especially when she wrote that extra part of Sizhui’s grandma (T.T) and the rest of the dead Wens fend against the zombies.

Side note: arguably, there’s one more person who ends up with a great ending as well - Nie Huaishang. His brother died, yes, but he, of all characters, probably got the best revenge, and if the hints in the extras are anything to go by, the power in cultivation world as well. I have two theories on Huaishang lol, either 1) he gets mastermind / final boss privilege or 2) he was just a minor enough player in the Sunshot aftermath that that specific karma didn’t fall on his head.

Side note 2: I really, really love Mian Mian T.T There are not a lot of female characters in MDZS, but those that are in MDZS are really freaking great. The men though ... a mess™

[xiyao-feels]

I'm so confused. can jgy reincarnate or be resurrected? I know fanfic can take liberties but I've read conflicting things. plus the untamed didn't show his body or explain anything and I believe the novel says something else entirely? 😔🥺😕

So "can JGY reincarnate or be resurrected" is not a question I can really properly answer. My understanding is that the answer is yes if he's not stuck in the coffin (and a friend of mine has read a bunch of Chinese fic, albeit through Google translate, where stuff like that does in fact happen), but I'm not confident I'd know it if the answer were no! So I'm afraid I can't really help you there, I'm sorry. This is normally where I'd link you stuff from people who know more than I do but while I know I've seen stuff on the subject apparently I didn't save it, and I couldn't find anything relevant searching, either. That'll teach me not to save my links...

But I can show you what happened to JGY in MDZS, and then contrast with CQL! Let's go.

So, end of ch. 108, JGY pushes LXC away from the coffin and NMJ (not, note, out of the temple, which isn't crumbling!) and then NMJ immediately drags him into the coffin and kills him:

Yet, just as the hand was an instant from grasping Lan XiChen’s neck, Jin GuangYao used the only hand he had left to strike Lan XiChen’s chest, pushing Lan XiChen away.

He, himself, on the other hand, was dragged into the coffin by Nie MingJue, then held up like holding a puppet. The scene was beyond frightening. Jin GuangYao used his one hand to peel away at Nie MingJue’s steel-like palm. He struggled ceaselessly from the pain, hair tangled, as heavy malice shot from his eyes. He cursed with all the energy he had left, “Fuck you, Nie MingJue! You think I’m really scared of you?! I…”

With much difficulty, he coughed up some blood. Everyone present heard a crack that was abnormally clear and brutal.

A whimper of a last breath left Jin GuangYao’s throat.

There's a last short couple of sentences about JL's reaction, and then at the beginning of 109 you immediately have:

Lan XiChen staggered a few steps back from the push. He hadn’t realized what happened yet. Meanwhile, Lan WangJi struck the back of the fair-featured Guanyin statue at the center of the temple. The statue vibrated as it flew towards the coffin. Nie MingJue was still inspecting the corpse in his hand, the head had already dipped. As the heavy statue hit him, he fell right back where he’d been.

Wei WuXian leaped over and stepped onto the Guanyin’s chest. The coffin lid had broken already. They could only use the Guanyin statue as a lid to seal away Nie MingJue and his rampage. Down below, Nie MingJue struck the statue again and again in attempt to break free, while Wei WuXian also shook again and again, reeling so much he was almost thrown off.

And then LWJ lifts the coffin up, seals it with seven quqin strings and lets it fall again to the ground.

Then for the rest of chapter 109 and the beginning of 110, LXC and then WWX ask NHS some questions, after which:

After a while of silence, Wei WuXian spoke, “Let’s stop standing around for nothing. Get a few people to go find assistance. Save a few to stand by here and watch the thing. The coffin and the guqin strings won’t be able to seal ChiFeng-Zun for long.”

As though to verify his judgement, loud noises echoed within the coffin again, along with a nameless fury. Nie HuaiSang shivered. Wei WuXian glanced at him, “You see? You have to switch to a firmer coffin right now, dig a deep ditch, and bury it once more. You won’t be able to open it in at least a hundred years. If you do, it’s guaranteed it’ll continue to haunt, resulting in endless consequences…”

Right after this, the crowd comes pouring in. Some of them do indeed work on strengthening the seal; we're also told that it requires careful handling (which is why it's a few of the sect leaders who volunteer to handle it), and WWX anticipates the near future of the coffin:

Soon, this coffin would be sealed within a larger, firmer coffin. It’d be secured with seventy-two mahogany nails and buried deep underground, sealed under some mountain with stone tablets of warning.

Then we see some sect leaders carrying it outside the temple, and later LQR watches it be hauled onto a cart.

The next we hear of it is in overheard rumour in ch 113, three months later:

Someone switched the subject, “Enough, enough. Why talk about these things? Eat up, eat up No matter how powerful that Jin GuangYao used to be, right now he could be stuck in a coffin brawling with Nie MingJue.”

“I don’t think so. They loathe each other to the core, after all. I bet his bones have already been torn apart by Nie MingJue.”

“Indeed! I went to the sealing ceremony. The resentful energy in that coffin was so strong that no life grew within five hundred feet of it. I’m doubting it, really—could the coffin really seal them for a hundred years?”

Overheard rumour is not the most reliable of things, especially in MDZS—for example, I would not be surprised if it wasn't really five hundred feet. But it gives any sense, and certainly—as WWX indicated above—the coffin is /meant/ to seal them for a hundred years. (Though I have my doubts on this actually working; see here.)

Now let's look at CQL:

After JGY breaks the seal on the coffin, the blood drops onto the Tiger Seal, and resentful energy emerges and the temple starts to crumple; pretty much everyone but wangxian and xiyao flee the temple. LXC lifts his hand to push JGY away, but can't bring himself to do it; JGY asks him to stay and die with him, and he agrees. JGY then pushed him away to save his life, and wangxian catch him and LWJ brings him out of the temple to make sure he actually leaves insead of e.g. running right back in to die with JGY. WWX stays and watches a little; we see JGY turn and confront the resentful energy: "Nie Mingjue. Do you think I will be afraid of you?" The temple continues to collapse, WWX flees, and JGY runs towards the coffin.

(I'm having a hard time with the blocking on this one, I watched it a few times and it looks like they are a) immediately over the coffin when JGY bleeds on it and then immediately after they're...not? Despite not moving??? But the above is what I think is supposed to be going on.)

They're then sitting around in the courtyard outside. They seem to have been sitting around for a while even before WWX's wound heals (not a feature in MDZS, because in MDZS MXY's revenge didn't include JGY); it seems likely that JGY died before that, I think, but that's at least an end point. After this the cultivators rush into the courtyard. Now we finally get people going into the temple again, but there doesn't seem to be any sign or mention of sealing. I thought I remembered mention if a ceremony of some sort, but I can't find it in the rest of the episode and a friend doesn't remember it at all so I think it's pretty likely I was just misremembering/crossing it with MDZS.

But basically: in MDZS, they seal them together /immediately/ after JGY dies, and they proceed very quickly to a stronger, more permanent seal. In CQL, there's no sign of any of this at all! It seems quite plausible that they're not buried together, never mind sealed together. And regardless, it couldn't have happened nearly as immediately; JGY's spirit could have time to flee the coop.

It's also worth remembering that in MDZS when they seal the coffin at the end, it's to immediately deal with /fierce corpse NMJ/, who otherwise would be an extremely powerful, extraordinarily dangerous fierce corpse, made even worse—as WWX notes in ch 107—by having killed JGY.* In CQL it looks like the problem is more the Tiger Seal, I think? And it's not like they need to immediately seal it into the coffin which JGY is also in? It's not even clear that JGY's body actually ends up in the coffin, from what I can see. As far as I can tell there's not really any reason to believe they're buried together. If I had to guess (though I didn't rewatch all relevant scenes, or even all the temple scenes, and I could easily be missing something) I'd say NMJ might be going back to Honourable Burial Nie Land, and JGY's corpse....

Hmmm. That's kind of interesting, come to think of it. If it hasn't mysteriously vanished I'm not sure what would happen to it; I'm inclined to say it wouldn't be treated well except LXC is right there and he might like. Stab someone, honestly. If it /has/ mysteriously vanished—I just might change my mind about CQL LXC killing himself.** In Which a Twin Jade obsessively searches the world for their loved one because there's the possibility they might not be dead, huh.

*"After he killed Jin GuangYao, his killing intent would definitely become stronger, and he’d be more difficult to subdue!"

**I don't think this is the impression CQL as a whole is trying to give us, to be clear, it's just what I think happened.

[songofclarity]

Your tags on that one gif set with Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue in Wen Ruohan's throne room are so good, and also they made me want to reread that chapter (I have finished the book by now! well, all but a few of the extra chapters) to refresh my memory as to how that scene went in the book.

A very belated thank you! I’ve read Nie MingJue’s empathy chapters a ridiculous amount of times and it’s always time well spent, so I definitely encourage it if you haven’t gone back to reread it already!

I had to go take a look at what I wrote in the tags, which I’ll link in the sources for reference sake, but:

#the first and only time we see lxc defend jgy to nmj is this scene #set in the place where jgy hosted nmj's torture #we can't even see nmj's face at this angle but #he's just swaying like he can barely hold himself up #and his hair is all out of sorts #i desperately cling to the novel version #where lxc is supporting him the whole time #where lxc won't let nmj kill jgy #bc nmj was going to kill himself as well #just in case jgy really was innocent #nmj calling jgy's bluff #but lxc stops it all #bc lxc wants to save lives if there isn't hard proof against them #oh cql how cruel of you to wreck havoc on nmj and lxc's relationship like this...

Wow, this scene does make me feel things! Although I do side-eye a lot of what CQL did with Lan XIChen’s character and motivations lol I’m just going to pull part of the scene from the novel since we’re here~ Or that I’m here and there is no one to stop me...

(Meng Yao,) "ChiFeng-Zun!!! Don't you understand that if I didn't kill [the Nie cultivators held captive alongside you], you'd be the one who die then?!!"

This was actually the same as saying, 'I'm the one who saved your life so you can't kill me or else it'd be immoral.' However, Jin GuangYao was indeed worthy of his reputation. The same meaning but a different wording, and he was able to create a contained sense of frustration and a reserved sense of sorrow. As he had expected, Nie MingJue's movement halted. Veins stood out under his forehead.

Having paused for a while, [Nie MingJue] clenched the hilt of his saber and shouted, "Very well! I'll kill myself after I kill you!"

So Meng Yao is very much being manipulative here in the face of Nie MingJue having just woken up from a traumatic, near-death experience being carried by someone who was an eager contributor of said traumatic, near-death experience. A chase scene ensues but Nie MingJue is too weak to do much more than be menacing. Meng Yao does have a cut on his arm by the time Lan XiChen arrives, but Wei WuXian’s narration consistently states Meng Yao dodged and ran, so who knows how he got it or (conspiracy theory!) he gave it to himself, knowing Lan XiChen would arrive.

Amid all the action, a surprised voice suddenly called out, "MingJue-xiong!"

A figure dressed in clean, white robes darted out of the forest. Meng Yao looked as if he had just seen a god from Heaven. He quickly scrambled over and hid behind the person's back, "ZeWu-Jun!!! ZeWu-Jun!!!"

Nie MingJue was in the middle of his rage. He didn't even have the chance to ask why Lan XiChen was there as he shouted, "XiChen, move!"

Baxia's strikes were so menacing that Shuoyue had to unsheath. Lan XiChen stopped him, half to support his figure and half to block his attacks, "MingJue-xiong, calm down! Why bother?"

Nie MingJue, "Why don't you ask what he did?!"

Lan XiChen turned around to look at Meng Yao... (ERS, ch. 49)

“A god from Heaven,” Lan XiChen is described, who goes right to Nie MingJue’s side. It’s Nie MingJue he’s worried for, it’s Nie MingJue he keeps from falling. Nie MingJue is covered in blood, he’s injured, he’s raging -- Nie MingJue is the one who needs help and support, and Lan XiChen doesn’t even hesitate to get right in there and provide it. People are later shown fearful and respectful of Nie MingJue to such a degree that they won’t throw him flowers to him at a welcoming ceremony for fear of provoking his anger, but Lan XiChen always shows absolute faith that Nie MIngJue would never harm him even when Baxia is unleashed.

So although I love CQL having Nie MingJue wake up on Lan XiChen’s lap in the Sun Palace, it still pales in comparison to Lan XiChen racing forward without care for his own safety in order to grab onto Nie MingJue. Nie MingJue who faced total defeat at Yangquan. Nie MingJue who was captured by Wen RuoHan. Nie MingJue who is bloodied and injured and was very likely thought as good as dead.

And although the argument might also be made that Lan XiChen was throwing himself into danger to save Meng Yao, I don’t see it considering Lan XiChen’s focus is always on Nie MingJue. Here at Nightless City, at the stairs of Koi Tower, and at the Tournament in Qinghe, Lan XiChen stays with Nie MingJue with the intention of talking him down. Nie MingJue’s anger is a double-edged sword. He might kill Meng Yao, yes, but his risk of qi deviating will kill him, too. I think of this in the perspective of a healthcare professional: you stay with the patient when they are having a mental crisis. It gives them stability and grounding and safety, which is what Lan XiChen consistently offers--and which Meng Yao freely takes by hiding behind him. Nie MingJue is the one who needs immediate help, not Meng Yao. And that’s how Meng Yao gets away with all his nonsense. Lan XiChen is so focused on Nie MingJue, on talking him back from the ledge, on making sure he gets the help he needs, that he doesn’t see Meng Yao’s slight of hand. He doesn’t see what Nie MingJue sees with Meng Yao cowering behind him.

But even when Nie MingJue and Lan XiChen argue about Meng Yao in the novel, they are never on opposite sides. They present to each other what they know and what they’ve seen. They both listen and they both get opportunities to speak until understanding occurs. This is a very healthy relationship! At least fundamentally. When Nie MingJue tells Lan XiChen to ask Meng Yao what he’s done, Lan XiChen doesn’t question him or doubt him, but instead turns to do so. Meng Yao does not get a free pass, but he uses silence to get others to speak for him. He is still held accountable, but it just so happens the story he has spun is quite convincing.

And although Lan XiChen provides Meng Yao a defense, the defense is consistently this: Meng Yao’s actions were done to help Nie MingJue. While we know that is a lie, that Nie MingJue was little more than Meng Yao’s means to an end, the understanding Lan XiChen has been led to believe is sound. Lan XiChen as well says that he wouldn’t be there to help Nie MingJue without Meng Yao having told him where to go. Thus, coming from Lan XiChen’s mouth, Nie MingJue is led to believe the tale as well.

It’s just all about the inherent love and trust in Nie MingJue and Lan XiChen’s relationship! That even when they argue, there is still love, and after they fight, there is still love. At no point does their relationship ever falter. At no point do they doubt one another. And that’s beautiful.

On another note, Meng Yao immediately going to hide behind Lan XIChen is so reminiscent of how Nie HuaiSang behaves in the future. The Nie HuaiSang we know prior to Nie MingJue’s death is actually quite bold! He yells at Nie MingJue and kicks his saber and storms out! Who else has yelled at Nie MingJue!? Nobody! So Nie HuaiSang literally used Meng Yao's pitiful act as his cover for his revenge scheme and I love it.

[crossdressingdeath]

I find it really strange how LXC has more haters than JC. Overall I do think he’s pretty well liked, but I have seen way more criticism for him than for JC, which is weird. Because I feel like you can find legitimate explanations for a lot of LXC’s choices, whereas the same can’t be said for JC. Let’s look at LXC’s supposed crimes. Trusting JGY? Well, I don’t think we can complain about that, and then at the same time 1/10

breath turn around and support LWJ for always standing up for WWX because...look, I get that it's not exactly the same thing. And it's REALLY not the same thing because it ultimately turned out that JGY couldn't be trusted, but the thing is, LXC genuinely didn't know that at the time! This guy was a very close friend of his! He believed in him! JGY had saved his life in the past! And just like LWJ always supports his loved ones without a second thought, LXC is doing the same thing. Because, 2/10

in this eyes, JGY hasn't really given him any reason not to trust him. The guy is a very good manipulator, and when you are that close to someone, you WANT to believe the best in them. LXC is not an idiot, he is the victim of someone else's manipulations, and it's not like pretty much everyone in the cultivation world suspected anything either. The only one who was actively trying to take down JGY was NHS, who KNEW that the man had murdered his brother. I have no doubt that if LXC had 3/10

been aware of it, he would never have supported him. Not only that - as soon as there is any doubt about JGY's intentions, the man takes an objective stance! He agrees to listen to the evidence! He isn't just blindly denying what's in front of him, regardless of what that would mean for his own feelings; but of course he isn't going to blindly denounce JGY with no proof because this is his closest friend. And while he obviously trusts his brother, he also knows that LWJ's priority is 4/10

WWX, who LXC really doesn't have any reason to trust at that point? We know WWX, LWJ knows WWX, but LXC and him really haven't had that many interactions, on top of his current reputation in the cultivation world. The fact that LXC is so willing to help and hide WWX, despite knowing the dangers it might cause for his sect, and all because he trusts his brother is...a very big thing. It's more than JC would EVER do for WWX. I've also seen criticism for LWJ's punishment, which I honestly 5/10

don't understand because a) the Lan clan also has elders which probably had a big say in the punishment too, and b) LWJ DID commit a crime! It wasn't just him protecting WWX, it was him injuring dozens of members of the Lan sect! Sure, we know why he did it, but just how would it look to the rest of the sect if LXC had just excused that behaviour? Or to the rest of the world? What would it do to his brother's place in the sect if he hadn't been punished for it? I really don't think LWJ 6/10

could have gotten out of that without some form of punishment, and if LXC even had the sole say over it after all (which I highly doubt he would have with no repercussions) that was probably the best alternative to banishment, or perhaps even worse. I've seen criticism (and this is so, so strange) over him blindly accepting the story about his mother, which is so stupid because...LWJ also accepted it, LXC has no way of finding out anything about his mother, and WE as readers know nothing 7/10

about his mother! For all we know, she COULD have been in the wrong, or his parents could have had a completely different relationship from how other people perceive it; we just don't know enough to make a judgement. And then finally, I see people criticizing his behaviour towards WWX. Okay, I kind of do find this annoying too - I was frustrated when he essentially blamed WWX for LWJ's actions, because honestly, LWJ is a grown man who can make his own decisions, but...I also kind of 8/10

understand this. Because this is his BROTHER, and of course he's going to be protective or resentful when he's hurt, it's just a natural reaction to have. It's only natural, and people can't be objective all the time. And also, I think a lot of his annoyance came from him thinking that WWX knew about his brother's feelings, and was essentially mocking them by pretending to flirt with him, and honestly, from an outsiders perspective it would kind of look like that. Despite his own feelings, 9/10

He still supports LWJ in all his decisions though. It’s just so weird that there is so much criticism for LXX, when you can understand his supposed mistakes a lot more than someone like JC. But then, JC pretty much gets no criticism from the fandom. I’ve actually seen people who can’t stand LXC, but then support JC at the same time, and that is so, so weird. 10/10

The thing is, LXC has just as much reason to trust JGY as LWJ does to trust WWX. We as readers know that WWX is in the right, but LWJ, in-universe, doesn’t. He himself admits that he believes and wants to help WWX because he loves him, not because he’s certain he’s in the right. There’s actually a lot less evidence against JGY than there is against WWX for a lot of the story! Evidence that LXC as an in-universe character with his level of knowledge would have access to, I mean. LXC himself points this out; LWJ believes JGY has done these terrible things because WWX said so, not because they have physical proof; at this point in the story it very much is WWX’s word against JGY’s, so doesn’t LXC have the right to give JGY the benefit of the doubt and trust him the way LWJ trusts WWX? And even saying that, the moment he has reason to distrust JGY he revokes his access to the Cloud Recesses and is clearly upset at the idea that he could have misjudged the situation so badly. And remember, JGY’s reputation was impeccable before WWX accused him (origins aside); LXC had no reason to doubt him, but he still did, because WWX said he should and LWJ trusted WWX’s judgement. Can you imagine any other character in this novel immediately searching for evidence and acting as soon as that evidence was uncovered even when that evidence proved their long-held beliefs wrong?

And re the punishment, it was punishment for attacking the elders, not necessarily for helping WWX; thirty-three lashes for thirty-three elders badly injured. LXC couldn’t have just... let LWJ get away with attacking the elders of their clan, that would’ve been a political disaster within their sect even keeping the whole thing a secret from other sects. And honestly? Between helping the cultivation world’s enemy number one and gravely injuring the clan’s elders, it wouldn’t surprise me if LWJ could’ve been executed. Any other sect leader probably would’ve executed him for aiding WWX, but LXC couldn’t do that to his brother. Instead he sent the elders who most respected LWJ to apprehend him and bring him back before anyone else realized what he was doing. Was the whipping severe? Definitely. But considering what other punishments were on the table, I’d argue LXC was downright merciful. LWJ clearly thinks it was justified, or at least understandable, and while that doesn’t necessarily mean it was okay (I mean, WWX insists JC repeatedly trying to kill him is totally fine), I do think that should be considered. LWJ knew he would be punished when he went back; a big part of the novel is accountability for one’s actions, and I’d argue this is a part of that theme. 

LXC believing the story about his mother is like... what else is he supposed to do? As you say, LWJ also seems to believe it. They have no reason to doubt it! The certainty suggests that no one (not the sect’s elders, not their uncle, not even their mother) ever brought up the possibility of it being false! When all evidence suggests that something is true and you can’t find anything to disprove it, insisting it’s false anyway will only hurt you! Of course he believes the only story anyone has ever told him when not even the woman it’s about suggested it was a lie! Leave him alone!

And the whole thing with WWX is fairly explicitly him thinking WWX knew LWJ was in love with him and chose to toy with his feelings just for fun. And also making his brother miserable for 13 years, which granted wasn’t really WWX’s fault, but we can’t fault a brother for seizing upon the most obvious target to blame for his baby brother’s suffering. From the outside it really does look like WWX was just toying with LWJ, after all; we know better because we’re in WWX’s head and know that he doesn’t know LWJ’s in love with him, and WWX corrects his behaviour as soon as he realizes, but until WWX tells them he doesn’t remember LWJ’s confession LXC has no reason to believe he’s not being pointlessly cruel. And thinking someone is deliberately using your brother’s feelings to hurt him probably makes it considerably easier to believe that person is to blame for all your brother’s suffering. I do think LXC will get past his resentment of WWX given time! His hatred of WWX is an immediate reaction to the suffering of someone he loves. You know, like JC’s desire to murder all the Wens for the fall of Lotus Pier, except considerably less genocidal and considerably more likely to be gotten over.

As for why people make excuses for JC but talk shit about LXC... I don’t know. How fandoms pick their favourite characters has always been something of a mystery to me.

[sleepymarmot]

Re-liveblog: eps. 4 & 10

Here's something I've been planning to do for a while -- rereading the liveblog of The Untamed I wrote a couple of months ago and looking at my own initial reactions to Jin Guangyao's storyline with new eyes. Returning to old liveblogs is always fun, but particularly when the perspective on something changes so much by the end of the story!

Of course, this turned into a monstrosity with word count in thousands that sat in my drafts for about a month, and involved rewatching most of the scenes the liveblog mentioned, and some that it didn't. Please be warned: this series of posts is not meant to be a comprehensive analysis, and will jump from one point to another or highlight only the things I have changed my mind about, or haven’t talked on this blog before. It is going to include some very personal interpretations and opinions, sometimes possibly (or definitely, in the case of this very post) unpopular or negative. I am here to reflect on my own experience of watching the show almost as much as to write meta about the show itself.

[All re-liveblog posts]

[ep 4]

is this shy illegitimate son the same person who summoned WWX in the first episode, or are they two entirely unrelated bastards? I don’t think the ages match up…

Oh, so that's what I was thinking during Meng Yao's introduction scene: trying to figure out whether he was the same person as Mo Xuanyu or not. That's funny.

[negativity ahead!]

Of course, I was also admiring Xichen's elegant way of Using His Privilege For Good, but I thought that was self-explanatory enough not to put in the liveblog. It didn’t occur to me this scene could be interpreted as a sect leader openly hitting on a disadvantaged youth, or that such an interpretation would be popular, especially in a literal and positive way as opposed to a dark or subversive headcanon. So even if this is ever confirmed to be an intended message of the scene, I’d just say “I recognize the council has made a decision...” and continue to disregard it. Kind of incredible how it manages to squick me in at least five ways -- and xiayo is one of my main ships in this fandom! And not only squick -- in my eyes, sexualizing LXC’s intentions in this scene not only adds something that I don’t like, but actively detracts from the textual, surface meaning and narrative function of LXC’s actions (establishing LXC as a Model Authority Figure who masterfully manipulates the social power dynamics not for self-interest, but for justice, kindness, and peaceful conflict resolution; see also the following scene with the Wens). And from the other side, I think Meng Yao is shocked and impressed specifically because someone like LXC would do this for someone like him without an ulterior motive; I suspect that if he saw this as LXC making an excuse to touch someone attractive, he would only be turned off: a sect leader who can’t keep his hands to himself is nothing new and nothing good from the point of view of JGS’s illegitimate child.

But if this brief brushing of hands holds any in-universe significance in addition to a possible foreshadowing of this relationship’s future importance -- I think I just finally realized what it must be! This interaction is an adaptation of the following scene from the book (which, to be fair, happens when MY and LXC already know each other, not during a first meeting):

Meng Yao had been a famous joke for a certain period of time, which was why a few recognized him. Likely thinking that the son of a prostitute perhaps also carried some unclean things with him, the cultivators didn’t drink from the cups that he had presented with both hands. Instead, they put the cups to the side and even took out white handkerchiefs. As though it felt too uncomfortable, they repeatedly wiped the fingers that they’d touched the teacup with, either intentionally or not. Nie MingJue wasn’t someone mindful to such things. Wei WuXian, though, caught sight of this through the corners of his eyes. Meng Yao acted as if he didn’t see anything, his smile unfaltering as he continued to pass around tea.

As Lan XiChen accepted his cup, he looked up at him and smiled, “Thank you.”

He drank a sip of the tea immediately afterward. Only then did he continue to converse with Nie MingJue. A few cultivators began to feel uneasy as they saw the scene.

(Chapter 48)

So CQL!Meng Yao’s eyebrows twitch in pleased surprise because the sect leader not only personally approached to verbally support him, but took something directly from his hands, not even trying to avoid him or flinching at skin contact. As if it didn’t even occur to the majestic Zewu-jun to think of Meng Yao as dirty or disgusting.

I don’t know if this is an intended interpretation either, because I don’t remember anyone specifically avoiding physical contact with MY in the show, and on the contrary, there were examples of both friendly (from Huaisang) and unfriendly (from the commander) touch. But I certainly prefer it to the other interpretation, and ignoring the interaction altogether seems a bit intellectually dishonest.

[/negativity]

On another note, much is said about JGY’s performativity, but check out LXC’s! Someone’s being bullied in his classroom? Not on his watch! Time to descend from his pedestal like truth coming out of her well, Very Pointedly and at length explain how this person Has His Official And Personal Approval And Is Very Welcome Here, then take the gift from him personally instead of letting a disciple do that. Note how in the following scene, he also personally accepts the gift from Wen Qing as a peacemaking gesture. I love how LXC’s character establishing event is about defusing not one but two uncomfortable situations in a row. Of the two brothers, all social skills went to him...

I have no comment on the goodbye scene. Just sadness.

Oh wait, after rewatching the entire show and coming back to the post, I do have something to say. This episode is the only time I can say with all certainty that all of Meng Yao’s words and reactions are fully sincere. After this point in the timeline, it will never happen again. :(

It’s a shame that the gifs I’ve seen of this scene end with the iconic stopped bow, because the final shots are also great! As soon as MY turns away, his face becomes clouded again, and seconds after the Sect Leader himself held his arms and assured they were peers, he felt the need to bow and lower his eyes as some unnamed disciples walked by. And the bitter look he sends after them tells the viewer how much he is aware of falling from the dreamland where a nobleman would compliment him like three times within three minutes, back to the regular life where it is better not to be noticed at all. Meanwhile, Xichen looks him in the back like “I want it to grow strong and healthy, I want to tell my friends and neighbors about it”.

[ep 10]

Alright, when 10 minutes ago I thought “Meng Yao, sweetie, kill that clown”, this is not what I had in mind

SOMEBODY GIVE MENG YAO A HUG (after some emergency medical care) HE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG IN HIS LIFE. Can Xichen adopt him now?

Ah, the joys of the first viewing. 

At this point, I was thinking of both Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue exclusively as of father figures for Meng Yao. For LXC I think I slowly started to notice the romantic tension later but made a complete flip to the romantic interpretation only during the "late light talks... no sign of curse on his body" conversation. For NMJ it was during the head flashback. And as much as I like these pairings, it does feel like a loss that their existence displaces the very different pseudo-family dynamic. I think a story in which NMJ, LXC, WRH and JGS are all openly presented as competing father figures would be interesting; has anyone written that?

On rewatch, I was outraged by all of the blatant manipulation that I bought completely on the first viewing. MY is very good at playing a wounded bird -- especially when he's literally wounded. I had wondered why he just limped away without treating it, but now it's obvious he is using Stoic Suffering to invoke pity and admiration. Just like, a few minutes earlier, he showed NMJ that he was ready to be struck down, and it saved his life. He tells NHS with a sad but brave face “I won't be able to take care of you anymore” and on first viewing it worked on me just as he intended -- I thought “Poor boy, so trained to serve, he puts his duty to others above his own feelings even in this situation”. Ha...

And NMJ is only helping his case. He had the chance to explain everything and share the truth of MY's actions. And in the novel, he does take this chance, retelling the incident to Xichen (who chooses to turn a blind eye). Instead, NMJ basically confirms MY’s narrative: by hiding the reason for the exile, he makes it seem like there was no respectable reason at all. NMJ, all by himself, makes himself look like an irrational tyrant, and MY like a victim of an arbitrariness. And he does it in front of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, no less -- an heir to a major clan and his brother! By trying not to discuss internal problems with outsiders, he achieves an opposite effect. Luckily for him, JC and WWX don't give a shit... But imagine how different the plot would be if they had this information from the start?

What I still don't understand is -- what was Meng Yao’s plan in this episode? Who was he working for? Who was his accomplice, whose feet we saw in the later flasback -- surely not Xue Yang himself, he’s supposed to be under arrest! Was he working with the Jin secretly already? (I don’t think so: in a later scene, JGS asks him about this incident, seemingly ignorant.) Or with the Wen (I don't remember -- did Xue Yang go back to the Wen afterwards)? Or just with Xue Yang directly, setting him completely free just on the promise of future cooperation? This seems most plausible -- but to risk and lose everything over such an uncertain gamble doesn’t make MY look very smart.

I have some other things to say about the events of this episode, but they’ll be in the post about the flashbacks in episode 41.