#the odyssey online

[hannahbakerseo]

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[dootznbootz]

Odysseus always trusted Penelope. He was ordered to lie to her and it hurt him to do so. Penelope was distrustful of this stranger until she had absolute solid proof.

There are way too many people talking about how "Odysseus lies to Penelope. What a prick!" and it makes me sad/mad as that's not the case at all

The whole "Odysseus usually always has a reason to lie" maybe upcoming essay aside, He was literally commanded by Athena to not tell anyone. And it was with Penelope that he had the hardest time keeping up the act with. Not only because she's smart af and figured him out almost immediately (that essay coming soon too) but because he was trying to keep himself from crying with her.

I think people forget that he is disguised to look like someone else completely. If a random man claimed to be your missing husband, wouldn't you be scared/freaked out?

Anyways, the 3 most important people in his life are Penelope, Telemachus, and Laertes. He lies to all three.

Telemachus: Lied by letting Eumaeus answer him and still under the orders from Athena, did not cry or reveal himself until Athena allowed him to. (I read it as him being in shock. Last time he saw him, Telemachus' hand could only wrap around one finger and now he's as big as him. a bit shocking to say the least)

Laertes: He teared up seeing him but still decided to question and test his father, not by the order from Athena.

Penelope: He was trying so hard to keep from crying, tried to noodle his way out of lying to her, Under Athena's orders. still couldn't help but basically flirt with her.

Also to get this outta the way: No, it wasn't a matter of trust. He is shown to trust her right away. As this happens even before he gets the chance to speak with Penelope.

Staunch Odysseus glowed with joy to hear all this— his wife's trickery luring gifts from her suitors now, enchanting their hearts with suave seductive words but all the while with something else in mind.

(Book 18, Fagles)

If Odysseus does not trust her, why is he so happy to see her "flirt" with the suitors? It's because he KNOWS what she's doing and knows she doesn't actually want them. If he didn't trust her, he would be upset by this.

Now for the "it hurt to lie to her" bit.

Athena's command:

"Tell not a single person in the palace, man or woman, that you are back from your wanderings; but endure all vexations in silence and submit yourself to the indignities that will be put upon you.'

(Book 13, Rieu)

If you are my son—truly of our blood—                                            let no one hear Odysseus is back home. Don’t let Laertes know or the swineherd, or the slaves, or Penelope herself.

(Book 16, Johnston)

And the people he did reveal himself to, he only did so after being given permission by Athena.

Athene spoke to him. 'The time has come,' she said, 'royal son of Laertes, Odysseus of the nimble wits, to let Telemachus into your secret, so that the pair of you may plot the downfall and death of the Suitors and then make your way to the famous city. [...]

(Book 15, Rieu)

He talks to Telemachus before talking to Penelope.

I’ll stay here, so I can stir the servants even more— and your mother. As she laments, she’ll ask for each and every detail.”

(Book 19, Johnston)

Odysseus is already sweating about having to lie to her

The next part would honestly be me just inserting almost ALL the text for this so I'll go into a summary. It's all in Book 19.

Penelope asks him where he's from. And instead of answering, it's a tsunami of compliments. Calling her flawless. Comparing her to a king. etc, etc,

Probably because he couldn't help himself and had to babble about how wonderful she is Who wouldn't? before finally ending with "Please don't ask me where I'm from. It makes me sad."

Penelope, probably overwhelmed by his praise, immediately goes into how "her beauty left with her husband. It did not. And where did you say you were from again?"

"Fine! I'm from Crete..."

And we all know that as soon as she starts crying, after a lovely description of how her tears "melted", he talks about how hard it was for Odysseus to hold in his OWN tears. Lying to her and being unable to comfort her was painful for him!!!

But though Odysseus' heart was wrung by his wife's distress, his eyes, hard as horn or iron, never wavered between their lids, so craftily did he repress his tears.

(Book 19, Rieu)

I love Robert Fitzgerald's translation so as a treat:

[...] so her white cheeks were wetted by these tears shed for her lord--and he close by her side. Imagine how his heart ached for his lady, his wife in tears; and yet he never blinked; his eyes might have been made of horn or iron for all that she could see. He had this trick-- wept, if he willed to, inwardly.

(Book 19, Fitzgerald)

Even with him revealing himself to Euryclea, when she cried out to Penelope, Athena made sure she didn't hear! It's most likely that he wouldn't be able to tell her even if he wanted. Athena was planning something, just as Penelope was.

She spoke, and her eyes glanced over at Penelope, anxious to tell her that her husband had come home. But Penelope could not see her face or notice, for Athena had diverted her attention.

(Book 19, Johnston)

He desperately wanted to be with her again. Literally daydreaming about it!

At those words Dawn rose on her golden throne in a sudden gleam of light. And great Odysseus caught the sound of his wife’s cry and began to daydream—deep in his heart it seemed she stood beside him, knew him, now, at last …

(book 20, Fagles)

Clearly doesn't trust her. /sarcasm

It's PENELOPE that has trouble trusting him. And rightfully so! While she was very certain that was her husband, there was so much going on and of course, she's cautious! He looked like an elderly stranger at first, why is he hiding from her? He somehow took out all those men with only a little help, Athena isn't telling her anything, Helen was kidnapped and she did not want that to possibly happen to her too, etc.

He even understands her cautiousness to be reasonable.

As she spoke, lord Odysseus, who had borne so much, smiled and immediately spoke to Telemachus— his words had wings:   “Telemachus, let your mother test me in these halls. She will soon possess more certain knowledge. Right now I’m filthy, with disgusting clothing on my body. That’s why she rejects me and will not say I am Odysseus. [...]

(Book 23, Johnston)

He even trusted her completely to take care of everything while he was gone before. And he does again when he wakes up and goes to see his father. Telling her about how she too wise to need instruction

Odysseus (and Penelope as well) is well-known for his cunning tricks and how his loyalties are often blurred but one thing that is for sure about him is that he trusts and is loyal to Penelope full-heartedly. He spent every day missing her and their son and wanting to go home to her. The only moment we see his trust in her waver is during the Treebed scene, (which is what she wanted to test).

They are "like-minded". 😭

[lyculuscaelus]

So lately I’ve been seeing a lot of posts asking people to stop trying to make Odysseus look nice in their works cuz he’s a “messed-up person in the mythology”. Your opinion is valid however I have but one thing to point out:

You want to know who started all this? Who started to “make Odysseus look nice” in the first place?

It’s Homer. It’s nobody else but Homer himself.

A non-Homeric Odysseus would try to murder people out of his own interests. He’d murder Palamedes without remorse (and we’d be cheering over this but it’s a murder after all), he’d attempt to murder Diomedes just to get the Palladium himself, he’d volunteer to kill Astyanax…meanwhile you wouldn’t find any mention of either Palamedes or Nauplius in Homer’s poems, neither did he mention anything abt the Palladium heist (and Diomedes necessity did not happen until Conon’s version), the death of Astyanax, the distribution of war prizes, etc. And all the details in the Odyssey seemed to deny the existence of Nauplius’s vengeance at all, so Odysseus would not take any of the blame.

A non-Homeric Odysseus would be depicted as “cruel, treacherous”, meanwhile in book 10 of the Iliad Odysseus was not mentioned to have killed anyone during the marauding, neither did he promise Dolan anything at all. The negative interpretations are denied by these details subtly put by Homer.

A non-Homeric Odysseus would be widely known as a “coward” for only shooting arrows from afar. But Homer gave him a spear and had him absolutely slaying in both the Iliad and the Odyssey. That part of Ajax’s speech was invalid already.

Most importantly—a non-Homeric Odysseus would be having kids everywhere else, and the loyalty to his own wife as seen in the Odyssey is no where to be found. Meanwhile his lineage was a single-son line made by Zeus in the Odyssey, and his love for Penelope was one of his main drives, especially seen in book 5 of the Odyssey. He loved his family as a loving parent—something you don’t get to see in most of the non-Homeric writings—for most of the time they followed a different tradition indeed, in which Odysseus wasn’t half as nice as in the Odyssey.

TL;DR: in case you haven’t noticed, the characterization of the Homeric Odysseus was quite different from a non-Homeric version of Odysseus. It’s not that Homer didn’t know of the existence of other versions—he knew them too well, which is why in his version of the story, you don’t get to see any mention of them.

[pyramidwank]

Drew @blondedsixties06 human hal because he's whimsical

[adamsvanrhijn]

still not fully here but wanted to say my bones are better now and i do not need surgery <3 (still in a lot of pain but. i can move forward now!!)

and with my new lease on life i have decided i am going to close read a bunch of high school level english-language literature by the time of my birthday in like less than a month and a half because i dropped out and it is long past time i gain an adult understanding of the broader canon and it's still. really weird that i have not fully read the great gatsby. like you'd think at least in the last 5 years i would have picked it up you know

SO if you still remember novels and short stories you read in english in a high school class, especially if they are public domain, i would appreciate inbox recommendations.. and then i can make a little list of stuff i did actually read in high school and stuff i want to read now. and then get to it.

[alphamecha-mkii]

[streets-in-paradise]

It's a sincere question, but who is the author of that version you cited with Penthesilea's corpse? I don't remember reading that in the texts

If I remember well, i read it in a mythology handbook called " Mitología Griega" by Editorial Gradifico.

Who is the original source? No idea, often in those sorts of books the explanations go " x and y thing happened, but in some versions, it also happened w". They do have bibliographies, but you can't tell for sure of all the books they cite who came up with each thing because not every " in some versions" has a note underneath clarifiying which versions they are talking about.

@littlesparklight, please help me out if you know the original source for that one. I know I once read that there was a version where Achilles does freaky stuff with the corpse of Penthesilea after killing her, but don't know which ancient author came up with that.

Edit: I haven't been able to check in the book yet, but a google search showed this.

So this isn't an implanted memory of mine.

I didn't remember the context leading to this, and Aphrodite playing a role in sort of driving him crazy, but I knew I read one version where that happened.

[beansucc]

A Starstruck Odyssey is the funniest Dimension 20 season actually

[ncc-60205]

Jamestown class star cruiser (commission)

[eeviaylxix]

Whenever I think of Tiresias from the Odyssey/Epic the musical, my brain automatically shifts to this motherfucker (Varen fuckin' Aquilarios, aka The Prophet, from the goddamn Elder Scrolls)

Please tell me I'm not the only one, I'm going insane

[d20-ritz-stimzz]

" Snake Eyes! "

📱 📱 📱 × 📱 💻 📱 × 📱 📱 📱

Danny C !

[proudfreakmetarusonikku]

did i tell you guys about the dream i had last night actually I can’t remember. bc it was really weird. it was just like, i was watching a tv adaptation of the odyssey that was super close to the original poem but the main difference was that odysseus was a woman and literally nothing else changed. idk why she still had a wife and son and fought in the trojan war and everything she was just a woman for some reason in the weird dream tv show i was watching. so I guess if you’re out there planning a lesbian version of the odyssey my dreams foretold your success? and then i had a different dream where i drowned which sucked but the first one was cool.

[voxphantasma]

SEE YOU SPACE COWBOY… 🌵🪐🩷

sundry sidney for the @d20zinejam cowboy zine, get the entire zine bundle here 🫶

[IMAGE ID: a colourful digital drawing of sundry sidney from a starstuck odyssey dressed as a cowboy. sidney is sitting on a fence, dressed in pink and white cowboy clothing (hat, shirt and wide pants with fringes, boots). she still has her gun arm and bionic eye like in the original design. the surrounding area is a desert-like place full of big cacti and with mountains on the horizon. the sky is dark and full of stars, with two giant planets taking up most of it. /END ID]

[madamefluffnstuff]

I apologize to the folks who have been watching me for Elder Scrolls Online stuff but I have loved Hugh Jackman and Wolverine since I was a wee teenager and the new movie has reawakened that love for him with a vengeance.

It might be a little bit before we go back to our regularly scheduled ESO posts.

[sleeping-at-sea]

I haven't made my daily post saying how much I love my husband and son

Chat I literally love them with my all I’m so glad we're friends I’m so glad I know them

Imagine if we weren't friends? That would be a horrible world

They're so great and I honestly would give anything just to make them happy

Them being happy makes me happy, that's honestly all I want for them

I love my best friends

[m4el-1t0]

Had to delete the post about Troy 2004 because people were writing thinking pieces under it and it was getting annoying dear God