#the jedi religion

[the-far-bright-center]

There's a fundamental disconnect between my view of Star Wars and that of, well.... the majority of the SW fandom these days. Whether this is due to lingering disdain for the Prequels (despite fandom claims of acceptance, there's still plenty of prequels-hate going around, it's just taken on a different guise) or the constant onslaught of Disney’s big-budget fanfic muddying the waters, or a combination of both, I don’t know.

But ultimately, it's quite simple. I view 'Star Wars' as the Skywalker saga...aka the six-film Lucas saga, which tells the story of Anakin Skywalker's rise, fall, and redemption. I don't personally see 'Star Wars' as some ongoing, open-ended franchise that can or even should have indefinite *canonical* additions to it. (An optional expanded universe is one thing, but additions that we, as fans, are just supposed to accept as canon without question because Disney says so is another thing entirely.) Because 'Star Wars' is not just some cinematic universe that exists for its own sake. The fact is, almost the entirety of the world-building from the Lucas-era was done in service of the story and characters of the Original Trilogy and the Prequels. The galaxy far, far away was created specifically to be the backdrop for the Skywalker saga.

So when people debate topics like ‘pro-Jedi’ vs. ‘Jedi critical’, I’m often unable to relate to the angle that these discussions take because I feel like they are largely missing the point. Story-wise, the Jedi don’t exist for their own sake, they (along with the Jedi vs. Sith struggle) are simply part of the mythic backstory of the saga. As a concept, the Jedi exist primarily to serve Anakin and Luke’s respective journeys. So, the Jedi Order of the Prequels-era is written as having become rigid and flawed because that is the necessary context for Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side. And likewise, Luke bringing Anakin back to the Light through the power of love and familial bonds is what rectifies the Old Order’s failings and thus restores the Jedi to the galaxy.

That's just... the story. As in, how it was told. So when I write meta about the Prequels and Original Trilogy, and how they work together as one story, my descriptions and interpretations of both the Jedi Order and the Jedi religion (these are related but not exactly the same thing) are simply neutral in my mind. I'm just talking about what the story is trying to convey. I can't relate to this idea that we must leap to the Jedi Order's defense, nor the converse, that we must condemn the Jedi eternally for having lost their way by the time of the Twilight of the Republic. Rather, I step outside of the story for a moment, and look from the outside in to try to see what is happening from that perspective.

I'm not sure that everyone in the fandom is willing or even able to do that.

Whether that is because very few people actually appreciate the Skywalker saga as Lucas told it to begin with (many people still loudly proclaim that 'Star Wars sucks!', which leads me to believe they must not value the core story at its heart), or they have been so confused by the Disney nonsense that they think the 'new canon' has automatically overridden any meaning that once existed in the PT x OT saga...again, I don't know. I have purposefully tried very hard to stay away from any Disney-related SW discussions for years now, so this is just all what I've gleaned from glimpses here and there.

But it seems to me that many SW fans have trouble accepting that the concept of the Jedi (and the Sith) are inextricably linked to the Skywalker saga and the Skywalker saga alone. These things would never have been created in the way they were without that story. But to acknowledge this would means fans have to accept how central Anakin is to the entire thing. All of it exists for Anakin's story. There are fans who don't like this for a slew of reasons, whether it be that they became attached to a certain idea of the Jedi based on how they were portrayed in Expanded Universe stories that came out during the interim between RotJ and the release of the Prequels (stories that were largely jossed by Lucas' canon), or because they hate Anakin for in-story reasons and have never been able to accept that Star Wars is about him whether they like it or not.

It certainly doesn't help that Disney has played into this discomfort by largely ignoring Anakin (at least, until fan-demand forced their hand) or even outright denying his importance to the story as Lucas told it. (Anakin is the Chosen One whether Disney or fans want him to be or not. Being the Chosen One is not about whether he 'deserves' it, it's literally just his role in the story. And Lucas' saga simply doesn't work without Anakin in the central role.) If fans are confused and disoriented these days, I can't entirely blame them. Disney's version of SW doesn't 'match' the Lucas saga and in many places outright contradicts it. But everything can easily be made clear if people step back (and put aside the Disney stuff for a moment) and just look at the actual story being told in the PT and OT. Likewise, any debates about the Jedi can easily be resolved in the same way. It's really not about how much fans like the Jedi as a group or as individual characters, or how much fans might wish they could be a Jedi themselves. It's about the role the Jedi play in the story, and it's about acknowledging whose story it really is.

[padmestrilogy]

love how jedi in the acolyte all think about attachment differently…when jecki says that sol shouldn’t keep holos of his former padawans and sol counters that memories help you grow. they feel like a real religion with their differing interpretations! and that’s what it’s all about, truly.

[auxxrat]

so sick and tired of the “jedi are an evil and abusive cult that steals children” as if half the reason they weren’t protecting these children is bc sith were out killing them or TURNING THEM INTO SITH. they weren’t even STEALING children to begin with I thought we all knew that was Palpatine’s game not Yoda’s.

[tarisilmarwen]

Frankly all Acolyte did was confirm my long-standing suspicion that a lot of anti-Jedi people are projecting their issues with God/religion onto the Jedi and reacting to that rather than responding to anything the Jedi actually do in-narrative.

[spaceediasporaa]

I know some people might not like the whole “Sabine training to be a Jedi despite not being super force sensitive” thing but I honestly think it’s really cool. It’s expanding what being a Jedi is, it’s showing they’re more than just space wizards, they’re a religion, a people- being a Jedi isn’t about having powers it’s about your training and how you live your life. I think it’s very cool and I like the idea of nonforce sensitive Jedi

[fancyhandsbakery]

I don't know why, but people who think Aang should have killed Ozai instead of honoring his people's beliefs and Jedi haters fall into the same category.

[short-wooloo]

Antijedidiots don't know anything about Buddhism, or any religion outside of Christianity, specifically catholicism, old news I know

But have you ever noticed that despite their transparent catholic trauma projection, they don't seem to have a very good grasp on catholicism or Christianity either?

Like if you can look at the big neon sign obviouse Buddhist-inspired Jedi Order and somehow see the catholic church, maybe you don't know much about that religion either?

Makes me wonder if their whole issue with Christianity stems from a failure on their part to pay attention to it

[aspiringwarriorlibrarian]

Okay there’s something I’ve been seeing in a lot of pro Jedi spaces and it’s really starting to bug me: Buddhism is not some mystical perfect completely pacifist religion because it’s a minority religion in your country. Buddhists are just as capable of extremism, fundamentalism, political corruption, religious violence, and other abuses of institutional power as any other religion and to say otherwise is Orientalist bullshit.

[bibxrbie]

One Star Wars headcannon you will have to pry from my cold hands, is that Luke absolutely made Leia carry him on her back when she decided to pursue Force training.

[underwaterspiderbird]

order 66 was NOT a genocide. you can only genocide people & cultures, you can’t genocide a systemically deified super-religion that wants everyone in existence to either agree with them & exist their way or burn in hell for eternity. any decent ppl who went down with the purge forfeit their lives down the drain along with their family, home & very sense of self. they. had. it. fucking. coming.

from an indigenous person, fuck y’all for even comparing order 66 to genocide & talking all over survivors of real genocides to save face for your evangelical faith & the people you think are good guys. you are not about to disrespect the continent-sized OCEANS of blood that make up our ancestors & loved ones who were lost to real genocide. fuck off.

[moonssugar]

i love when people say you can't examine the jedi order's flaws or discuss them or ever portray them as bad because that would be misrepresenting buddhism and would be bad because thats a minority religion (in the west) as if real life buddism isnt as flawed as every single other religion in existence. people also forget two other important things: first that theres another religion that starts with a c the jedi are also partially based off of and secondly the reason the jedi has buddist influences in their worldbuilding is because of this pesky thing called orientalism that star wars happens to be full of to the brim. also the idea that examining the jedi critically 1:1 equals slandering its influences is such a example of the inability to distinguish fiction and in universe things from actual reality

youre defending a half assed orientalist idea of actual religion in its poorly executed fictional amalgamative form...why?

[mayhemspreadingguy]

“I need a father. I need a mother. I need some older, wiser being to cry to. I talk to God, but the sky is empty.” ― Sylvia Plath

[hastalavistabyebye]

A fun side effect of my art history studies is that it really put Christianity in perspective (thanks to all the different spiritual systems all around the world). And let me tell you, Christianity is fucking strange.

Christianity really is unique. Nowhere else did I heard of something similar as the Trinity. One god into three bodies that are both very distinct and whole by themselves but also one single entity. The entire religion is based on a man who died in a lot of pain like a slave. The symbols of the religion are directly linked to that death (the cross, dude, the cross). Everything is more or less entirely focused on death and the fear of it.

And then you have catholicism (that's the one I'm most familiar with but I'm sure other christians movements have "fucked up" things like that). The Eucharist is symbolical cannibalism. You eat god's flesh and drink his blood. And I'm not going to talk about how this movement developed into terrible intolerance because that's not the point right now.

Catholicism and Christianity at large are unique. I really mean it. It has a relationship with the divine that's just strange. And it's entirely centered about fearing death while not really assuming it but also it's everywhere you look. It's really dark.

But also very insidious. It's hard to notice how strange it is when you're drown in it. When you're used to it because "yeah of course the Virgin Mary had a kid by herself." ("Artificial reproduction? Oh not good, completely different") We're used to it, it's logical to us.

But it is not the norm. This is NOT how other religions work at all. Not even other monotheisms are Like That and have that kind of relationship with their religion. And people really really need to understand this. Your norm is litteraly one of a kind.

So when you're faced with, for exemple, a fictive religion, from a fictive world, let say the Jedi. You CANNOT think about their religion like it's Christianity. You litteraly can't. And the fact the Jedi's religion is based on Buddhism (which double down as a philosophy to make it really different) makes it even worse. They do not see their faith the same way you're used to. It's galaxies away (bad joke assumed) from your experience with religion.

Really guys, be aware of the uniqueness of your faith and religion and be careful to not automatically applied it everywhere. Or you're going to fall into a very very deep trap of misunderstanding.

[machiavellli]

All these haters, including Lesyle Headland, make the Jedi bashing even worse because the Jedi are inspired by inspired by Asian culture, aka my people's culture and religion. Buddhism is NOT Catholicism. And to see the Jedi portrayed by an Asian woman in episode 5 get horrifically killed by Darth Annoying Asshole aka Qimir (who is portrayed by an Asian man also), Master Sol portrayed by a Asian man, and there's a Brendok witch who died in episode 7, and portrayed by Amy Tsang, an Asian woman, plus all the awful Jedi hate ("the Jedi are BAD, confirmed" NO THEY AREN'T!!!) just makes me wonder about how Disney, a Western company (run by several racist, ignorant assholes) and Lesyle Headland (thst racist BITCH) makes me really wonder about how white Westerners feel about Asians. My people and their culture deserve better than how white Westerners treated them!!!

you said it all.

I wish she would understand the complexity of your culture, which, as you said, it’s the inspiration behind the jedi order. :/

[autistic-ben-tennyson]

It’s been said before on tumblr but the whole “white queer ex Christian to Jewish convert who simps for Zionism” needs to be talked about more. Tumblr leftists enabled this to happen by acting philosemitic and treating Judaism as the progressive opposite of Christianity rather than the complex religion and culture it actually is. Taking a page from their book when they call ex Christians who don’t agree “culturally Christian”, just because you have trauma from Christianity doesn’t excuse acting like a chauvinist and supporting genocide. I’ve seen how ex Christians who don’t agree with them, as well as queer/trans people of color especially Palestinians are treated by them. I had a phase where I considered doing this, but then realized how that isn’t what I need and talking to real Palestinian/arab kids made me disgusted with even liberal Zionism. The fact that these people claim to be leftist and understand that trans rights aren’t something you can “agree to disagree” over yet see Palestinians and their lives as something to debate over shows the cognitive dissonance they have. @hussyknee, @lesbianchemicalplant

[reislesbian]

Seeing people call the Jedi Order a cult makes my blood boil. I'm tired of people seriously believing the Jedi are some emotionless child kidnappers. They're an order of Knights not fricking priests.