#the iliiad

[aaronofithaca05]

Family lunch over ( +10 people), and ask my cousin if she knew something about, cough, cough, Odyssey, cough, cough Illiad.

And she said that she was hooked for 4 months to a musical in progress EPIC; the conversation went like this

Me: hey, In collegue I fell down a rabbit hole of Greek mytho, and do you know by chance something about the Odyssey?? Cousin: Same, I´m watching a musical right now and I´m obssesed Me: which one? Cousin: Epic i think, it´s done by a Jorge I think Me: ehh, wait, WHAT? EPIC???!!!!!!!!!! Cousin: yeah.. why? Me: Because is the one I´m also obssesed. The two: HOLY MOLY!, What´s your favourite song, character.....?

Then I said to my mom if she knew something and she said that she read The ODYSSEY and went to GREECE in her 30´s with her friends to see ancient ruins of the EPIC CYCLE.

Asked the same to all my cousins, uncles and aunts, with different degrees of knowledge they talked about Homer´s works and how much they liked it.

I don´t have words; my family is a family of WINIONS, MY F FAMILY IS A WINION GROUP! I´M DEAD, ROASTED, CREMATED.

First grandma last night and today this, my god why I didn´t asked before, this is perfect T T

[aaronofithaca05]

@dootznbootz why I think who I'm thinking?

Agammenon or Paris, I see you!

Not Helen nor Menelaus nor Penelope because they are well liked, but I see you right there...

[yourcrumblingsaikiisnotmyproblem]

imagine being so hetero you actually believe authors when they say Achilles and Patroclus were just best friends...

[aaronofithaca05]

As I wrote on my discord three Iliiad Poems!

Andromache's plead

Inside the chains of dawn

Amidst the rivers of blood

Inside the fallen halls

Where laughter is no more

Inside the Chambers of long

There's a flick of hope

Thundering away despair

As it welcomes the new day.

The day of spring

A day of birth

A new soul took flesh

In Illium's bustling halls again.

The tender string of pearls

Gave way to thundering rain

While poor Andromache

Wasted on felt, humming along the air:

But when did the thunder became the rain?

When did a cuddle became my heir?

When did in mother I became?

(When does a ripple become a tidal wave?) She thought away.

But when did my light in your eyes became ?

When did spring rose again?

When did in mother I became?

As soon as the lyrics end

As soon as her eyes laid against

The stiff and cold bundle of flesh

As soon as her mind saw him again.

As soon as the helmet shine in her end.

As soon as that beast was awake

She could not rest.

Forgive me, is all she said.

En la sombra del ardor

En la luz de la desesperación

Estaba Andromache parada en estupor

-¿Cómo, no puede ser, otra vez?

En él se fijo ella otra vez.

-Héctor ya sabes que el casco no hace bien.

Parado la muralla de valor, aquél corazón habló:

-¿Oh mujer cuándo vas a entender

Que este casco de regreso es?

-No me importa tu razón

Sino las lágrimas que tu primogénito derramó

Al verte entrar en la habitación.

Y como mi corazón se encogió en el salón.

Al quitarse el casco de jabalí y temor

Dejó entrever su rostro

El troyano mejor.

-oh mi niño., oh mi rey.

Por tí acabaría la vida de los argivos sin ley.

Por tí Troya será fecunda, por tí mi vida daré

por que esos aqueos no rocen tu piel.

Y así el sol deslumbró al infante

Envuelto en sábanas de oro y rubor

Así río la alegría de ellos dos

Translation

In fire's shadow

In the light of despair

Still and mute Andromache was.

-¿How, not again?

She in he her eyes were fixed.

-Hector you know no good the helmet is

Standing the greatest wall, his heart spoke:

Don't you know my love

That this helmet is return?

-I don't care what you said

But the tears your firstborn shed

As seeing the room you entered

And shrinked my heart was.

Doning the boar's and fear helmet away

Did he let his face be sawn

The best troyan of them all.

-oh my child, oh muy King

Those lawless argives lives would end

For you Troy fertile will be, my life I'll shed

So those aqueans don't stroke your flesh.

And the kid by the sun was blind

In gold and Red blankets he was.

And then their joy laughed once more

[theasclepius-blog]

Greek and Roman God

Asclepius, Greek Asklepios, Latin Aesculapius, is the Greco-Roman god of medicine. Son of Apollo (god of healing, truth and prophecy) and the mortal princess Coronis. The Centaur Chiron taught him the art of healing, because of his knowledge for healing Zeus feared that he might render all men immortal causing Zeus to slay him with a thunderbolt.

Appearance: Asclepius was frequently represented standing, dressed in a long cloak, with bare breast; his usual attribute was a staff with a snake wrapped around it. This staff is the only true symbol of medicine. A similar but unrelated emblem, the caduceaus, with its winged staff and intertwined snakes, is often used as a medical emblem but is without medical relevance because it is the magic wand of Hermes (Roman God: Mercury), the messenger of the gods and the patron of trade.

In the Iliiad: Homer mentions him as a skillful physician and the father of two Greek doctors in the city of Troy, Machaon and Podalirius; in later times, he would be honored as hero and later on be worshipped as a god.

Cult: Asclepius’ cult began in Thessaly however spread to many parts of Greece. It was supposed that he effected cures of the sick in dreams, therefore the practice of sleeping in his temples in Epidaurus in South Greece became known and common. In 293 BC his cult spread to Rome, where he was worshiped as Aescalapuis

Citation: Cartwright, Mark. “Ancient Greek Medicine”. April 11 2018. Ancient History Encyclopedia. https://www.ancient.eu/Greek_Medicine/. 2020

[aaronofithaca05]

Thank you for makingvme shed a taer of joy!

Telemachus and Odysseus (animated)

Boop! :D

They're so happy with each other's company, they could literally play this game for hours.

Creator's Note:

eeeeeeek! This was my first time ever trying to animate something! And it worked??? I thought animation would always be something that was too confusing and hard but now I've done it??? what?! I know its kinda scribbly and not the most beautiful thing to look at but, for a first attempt, I'm pretty over the moon about how it turned out. Beyond my wildest dreams 🥹

I hope you like it!

I have to go run around in circles and scream in sheer giddy glee at the new frontiers this day has unocked! >:))))! byeeeeeeee~

P.s.

The song playing in my head on repeat while making this was Hamilton’s “Dear Theodosia”. I know it’s not EPIC but it really fits the moment (specifically these bits)

My son, look at my son!

Pride is not the word I'm looking for

There is so much more inside me now

//

My son

When you smile, I fall apart

And I thought I was so smart

//

My father wasn't around (my father wasn't around)

I swear that I'll be around for you…. 😬…

I'll do whatever it takes (I'll make a million mistakes)

I'll make the world safe and sound for you

But anyways I don’t know how to add sounds to stuff yet, so uh, maybe next time

[laoch-rua-blog]

Mythologising the Hero; ‘Dulce et Decorum est pro patria mori.’

Achilles drags Hector’s corpse before the Gates of Troy, fresco from the Achilleion palace in Corfu. 

 If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood 

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs, 

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud  

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, 

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory, 

The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est 

Pro patria mori.

   (Wilfred Owens) 

 This quotation from one of Wilfred Owen’s poems vividly illustrates his experience as a WWI soldier.  A rude awakening to the realities of war versus the idealised image that had been indoctrinated.  He was educated in the Classical civilisations and would have been instructed in the Latin and Greek literary traditions.  The Latin phrase Owen used is borrowed from Horace’s Odes, which in turn was adapted from Hector’s speech in The Iliad.  However, Horace re-using of this snippet from Homer’s epic fails to capture the complexity of the original.  Hector expressed that sentiment facing into combat with a raging Achilles, with the knowledge of his own impending death.  Hector does not have a choice, he must fight and he will die.  Horace evokes the memory of the hero Hector in his repurposing of the line to convey a sense of patriotism but not the despair and the inevitability of death in war.  Contrary to the line of Horace’s poem, as Owens’ unfortunately discovered, there is nothing sweet or proper in the horrors of war.  When segmented or summarised, the heroic discourse is frequently interpreted as honouring the glory of war.  The narrative is often appropriated in order to create an image of idealised heroes to serve social or political interests.

 Heroes have been repeatedly misappropriated and reinterpreted, portrayed contrary to the original intent.  Pádraic Pearse, the Irish revolutionary of the 1916 Easter Rising, who in death would become a national hero himself, knew the value of this.  He summoned the warrior Cú Chulainn from Ancient Irish mythology to fulfil this purpose.  Pearse was an educator and wanted his pupils to follow in the footsteps of the warrior.  Pearse claimed the hero Cú Chulainn as a role model for his students, promoting him as an ideal despite him possessing what would have been considered at the time as many undesirable traits.  For example, Cú Chulainn often lost his temper and could not control his rage, transforming into a monster (ríastrad).  These aspects are deemphasised, instead choosing to focus on the self sacrificial hero, one Pearse used to forward his cause of an independent Ireland.  On the commencement of his school St Enda’s, he told the pupils,

 ‘We must re-create and perpetuate in Ireland the knightly tradition of Cú Chulainn, ‘better is short life with honour than long life with dishonour’;

‘I care not though I were to live but one day and one night, if only my fame and my deeds live after me.’’ 

(Pádraic Pearse quoting Cú Chulainn in The Murder Machine 1912) 

School book from Pearse school, St Enda’s

 The heroic sentiment conveyed in Pearse’s lines are strikingly similar to the story of the Greek warrior Achilles.  He knew that he could either have a short life with fame or a long life in obscurity.  With the perpetuation of Achilles’ hero cult through other channels such as condensed mythology compendia, etc., it is natural to assume that The Iliad would be a panegyric to the warrior.  However, synopses cannot give a true understanding of the intricacy of the epic.  The heroes are not monochromatic as those portrayed in Tyrtaeus’ poetry or in Perikles’ funeral oration [https://online.hillsdale.edu/document.doc?id=355].  The Iliad is not in celebration of this paragon of the hero but as a response to it.  Homer composed a narrative wrought with digressions and uncultivated social topics, in order to encourage audience exploration.  The audience is mindful of Achilles approaching death but it is a not neat line to this outcome.  If the plot is to be viewed in simplistic terms, the end of the poem does not hold any resolution; Troy is not sacked and Achilles is not dead.  The exclusion of these narrative ‘goals’ force the audience to narrow the focus on what is in between.  Attention is placed upon the warriors’ individual perspective as a participant in the war or the audience to probe the unexplored dimensions of the hero. 

 Let us examine the character of Achilles and his progression through the narrative, to illustrate how Homer problematizes the heroic paradigm.  The Iliad portrays the brutality of the Trojan War.  Nine years away from home and removed from society, tensions build and the social structure that bind the community together breaks down.  This disintegration can be viewed through Achilles’ character.  The depiction of Achilles prior to the war shows him to be even-handed, perhaps even lenient in comparison to the other commanders.  Hector’s wife, Andromache describes how during the sack of her native city, Achilles as the aggressor, stipulated on a burial for her father and chose to enslave her mother rather than kill her (6. 413-428).  Achilles also showed mercy to Priam’s son, Lycaon, selling him into slavery prior to the war (21. 35-41).  This is in contrast with the policy employed by those in charge, Agamemnon and Menelaus chose to annihilate all Trojans, demanding that ‘not even a man-child which a mother carries in her womb’ should survive (Homer, 6. 58-59).   This image of Achilles’ clemency juxtaposes with the degradation of his humanity as the poem proceeds.  After the death of friend Patroclus, Achilles does not feel pity for the supplicating Lycaon and initially denies funeral rites to Hector, ridiculing and mutilating his body, despite Hector’s dying pleas.  

 What provokes Achilles to reach this state?  In the opening of the epic, Agamemnon publicly insults Achilles and threatens his status.  Status is currency.  It is only through this τιμή (honour/value) that the hero can achieve κλεος αϕθιτον (imperishable fame) and in sense, immortality.  Agamemnon breaches warrior convention, he seizes Achilles γῆρας (prize), the captured daughter of Briseus.  In this way, he also his seizes his τιμή and the constructed social framework, which the hero has lived by, is weakened.  Τιμή motivates the warrior to fight and γῆρας is the physical representation of this.  Publicly challenging Achilles, threatens his τιμή and the destruction of this code means he earns no value as a warrior.  The removal of this social order destabilises Achilles; the Θέμις, the conventions the warrior ordinarily lives by, are voided.  When Agamemnon sends the embassy to restore Achilles’ τιμή and in an attempt pacify his anger, offers to pay additional γῆρας, he rejects it.  He desires τισις, payback.   Achilles argues that fighting is futile as each warrior receives the same μοῖραι [1] regardless of ability (9. 318-320).  The motivation for the warrior is lost and he not longer partakes in the reciprocal mores.

 Homer is exploring the heroic ideal; problematizing the motivations of the warrior.  The older warrior Phoenix encourages Achilles to question the position he is in, using the tale of Meleagros as an analogy.  This action of Phoenix mirrors the questioning function of Homeric poetry, a tale to provoke exploration.  Meleagros fought without γῆρας and his τιμή was meaningless.  Phoenix advises Achilles not to return to the fighting without consideration of this (9. 597-605).  Achilles rejects the need for social recognition, ‘I have no need of such τιμή: I think myself to be honoured in the apportionment of Zeus’ (9. 608-609). [2] Achilles no longer lives by θέμις.  This reiterated when Achilles expressed inconsequence at the gifts being presented after the death of Patroclus (1. 146-148) and those proposed by Priam (24. 560-570).  This rejection of the social ties of reciprocity, which is a fundamental of the warriors’ social order, expresses his withdrawal from the group and from society.

Amphora by Exekias painter, Achilles and Ajax playing game, c.540–530 BC, Vatican Museums

 Αριστεία, excellence, is another aspect of the Homeric hero, which is commonly portrayed as an attribute of the warrior.  The warrior can accomplish great heroic feats through their Αριστεία.  During their Αριστεία, the gods repeatedly breathe μένος, surging strength into the heroes in preparation for combat.  Μένος can be translated as bodily fluids, blood or semen, ‘the essence of life,’ but also be used to convey a rush of vigorous force by the hero.  Both understandings seem to be unconnected, however it is their connection, which is fundamental to the feeling of μένος.  The fluids give the hero impetus to surge and are also the consequence of μένος.  This μένος can also be destructive as it overpowers, verging on μανια, ‘uncontrollable frenzy’.  Andromache warns Hector, ‘Man possessed, your fury (μένος) will destroy you’ (Homer 6.407).  Diomedes is another character who possesses μένος.  His account is paralleled with Achilles, in that Agamemnon likewise publicly disrespected him (Homer 4. 370-400), however contrary to Achilles he does not become enraged (4. 413 & 5. 606).  In Book five Diomedes is filled with μένος, even attacking the gods Aphrodite and Ares.  Nonetheless, he exhibits self-control as he faces Glaukos in combat, when he discovers that they shared mutual relations.  The significance of Diomedes use of restraint is amplified by his continual comparison to his father Tydeus.  According to Apollodrus, during the war of Thebes, Tydeus was on the verge of achieving apotheosis for his heroic deeds in battle, when he descended into anthropophagy (Apollodrus III. 6).  The repeated allusion to Diomedes’ father, combined with his surging μένος, gives the impression that Diomedes could possibly have the same culmination as Tydeus and lose his humanity to cannibalism.  

 The death of his beloved friend Patroclus triggers a transformation in Achilles.  He rejoins the battle in a battle frenzy.  A sense of being on the threshold of cannibalism is also prominent in Achilles’ ἀριστεία.  Achilles informs a dying Hector of the futility in appeals to his humanity in requesting pity, as he is on the brink of bestiality.

 'Dog – do not entreat me by my knees or my parents’ name!  I wish there was a way that my heart’s fury could leave me to carve and eat your flesh raw.' (22. 345-347)

  Although Achilles does not succumb to savagery of Tydeus, he does struggle to contain the bloodthirsty μένος, escalating to μῆνις, god-like anger.  As an ἡμίθεον (half-god), a μεγᾰλόψῡχος (big-souled), Achilles’ humanity is stretched, as the force that compels him to excel in battle can move him to the verge his mortal limits.  Homer portrays the degradation of humanity as a ramification of warfare.  When these details of Achilles descent into the bestial are recognised, then the warrior or war itself does not appear in a favourable light.  Homer shows that war pushes the combatants to the edge of their humanity.  We meet Achilles again in The Odyssey as the eponymous hero travels to the underworld.  Odysseus tells Achilles’ shade that he is worshipped as a god on earth.  To which Achilles responded,

‘Don’t sing praise to me about death, my fine Odysseus!  If I could live on earth, I would be happy to serve as a hired hand to some other, even to some man without a plot of land, one who has little to live on, than to be king among all the dead who have perished.’ (11. 467-460) [3]

 He would rather be a poor landless peasant and alive than be a deified hero in death.  Homer questions this romanticised hero.  Yes, Achilles achieved imperishable fame, but to him it was meaningless.

 It is possible to examine The Iliad in terms of its didactic nature.  The knowledge is not given openly, but it is necessary to explore between the lines of the text in order to derive substantial meaning.  The Homeric hero is questioned as the model of a powerful warrior who attempts to create κλεος αϕθιτον, in order to be remembered, celebrated and worshiped as part of the hero cult.  The Iliad demonstrates the other side of war, the torment of the individual warrior and their struggle to keep their humanity.   Achilles’ character is pivotal to express this struggle as he is offered two prospects, long life in obscurity or certain death and fame.  In response to the custom of the celebrated idealised hero, Homer provides his audience with narrative in which it is possible to question the social milieu by presenting the internal struggle of warrior.  

 [1] Share/fate in life, as in each warrior comes to the same end, death.  This wisdom is reinforced in the divine realm as gods are repeatedly reminded not to save particular heroes as the all share the same moira.

[2] This quotation is from M. Clarke’s translation.

[3] Taken from Powell’s translation.

[grosstbuster]

caught you both, criminals the both of you, thinking i would actually make a nsfw blog. you’re both going to jail. the real nsfw blog is my main blog. you both are fools thinking i, jahyyn iliiad igbrrt, would make a real nsfw blog.

[aaronofithaca05]

The husband

The mother and father

Tag time!: @jarondont, @iroissleepdeprived, @poshgirlsstuff, @orchestrated-haunting, @perroulisses, @nikoisme, @nyx-of-darkness-1620, @simugeuge

A little game idea

I always liked those tag games on Tumblr, so I decided to do my own !

The rules

Think of your OTP, or one of them.

Post two out of context images that give a hint on who they are

Tag at least one account

And the next player does the same. They can also try to guess which couple the previous one showed. But it's not a requirement.

Anyone can play, even if they're not tagged :)

The game is naturally easier for mutuals and followers, but I think it can be fun.

The OTP can be any couple, from any source (just precise if they're real or fictional) and any sexuality is of course welcome.

I'll go first :

(fictional)

Tags : @margaretkart, @nezukoo-channn, @kebriones, @hycinthrt, @gracebeth3604, @dootznbootz, @pansexualkiba

Edit : I'll post my answer tomorrow in the evening.

[argossisterfrfr]

hera? (she looks disdainful.) Im so sorry for you- with that peacock prancing around in your brain-

I have some friends with godly bows:D I can ask them to give you some if you would like:D

@young-telemachus

Really? That would be great lil Tel

[aprofessionaln00b]

Hey with the part of the Iliiad about Ody's thighs I thought maybe you'd like to put one there like Patroclus has in Hades.

(I'm reasonably certain this is the official art and not someone's fanart, if it is please tell me I'll change it)

Sketch

[aaronofithaca05]

I will use this quite a lot, as though there is over lap in some sense, sometimes there is a clear division between the two in terms of fanart or takes.

Though sometimes we, (myself included) compare both media and end up using the two tags at the same time as we May be using snippets or information from the Iliiad or Odyssey to discuss or compare with the topic we were talking.

But as stated before, I will try my best, at least in my part >:D

Banners for those who may need

( thank you @tiredguyswag for designing these)

[aaronofithaca05]

Yes, this two had tough roles in the Iliiad and now that everything is starting to settle they are seeing the atrocities that had ocurred. She seems more in denial and defensive, while He is understanding and internalizing everything to the point of mental collapse, (she is suffering and dealing with it but in a different way). And the return to the titles was an indirect move of his, everything hi said was nice but in the context is I still don't forgive you. She is done with the Gods, with Troy with everything and wants to go home.

He is refraining himself from going on full rampage and even suicidal Mode (he's psique is snapping every minute) he's still under a gods vision, he's bound for more but wants to go home but can't; he suspects it, but doesn't know what's ahead, the 10+years of his Odyssey. He thinks it might be months not years. She has ended being Fate's pawn he not.

@prompted-wordsmith

This is for you because your small story was amazing so I want to create one in return! And since you want Helen to speak up more here is a little interaction pre-departure from Troy between Helen and Odysseus because why not!

The city hadn't yet stopped smoking from the night of massacre. Helen feared it never would. The smell of burning wood and asbestos was sticking on her clothes and hair; bitter reminder of the events of the night before. Helen didn't want even to think of the lingering smell of blood; metal and water that she had touched. It was as if everything was red now; hands and heart and bloodshot eyes. She hadn't slept that night or the night after it. She feared she never would again.

She could still feel that this was partially her fault; both the beginning and the end of it. She knew the Horse was a farse; a well-staged plan. She chose not to alert the alarm. She had chosen her side once more. And now women and children and men at Troy were laying down dead or worse. She remembered seeing Andromache being dragged out of the city in chains along with other women. They were to be sold as slaves or given as prices to the kings of the Acheans. The once proud queen was now crying woefully; mourning her husband who was killed. She had been dragged out of her husband's tomb where she went to seek sanctuary. That was the ultimate hubris along with her father-in-law Priam who she heard from a conversation had been slain upon the altar he hoped would grand him his life. She heard it was Neoptolemus, the young man who carried the blood of Achilles in his veins and apparently his rage and temper. Who would have known that a child like that could be so cruel and blasphemous? So full of rage? Helen could not see her infant son in her arms as she was taken away. She didn't even dare to ask. For a brief second Andromache raised her head and her honey eyes stuck within her blue ones. The look was almost accusatory as the tears had given her face reddish lines. Or perhaps it was the self inflicted scratches that she had made in her woe. That second lasted longer than it should be before the queen was dragged away.

"That could have been me..." she thought

However her position was not much different. As she was standing at the peer, she was always guarded by a soldier; obviously her husband wanted both to protect her but also obviously he didn't trust her. Helen couldn't say she blamed him but it still hurt. She was seeing Menelaus talking to Odysseus, sorting out the details. Helen watched her husband and her former fiance in wonder. Indeed how strange fate was! How different the two men were! She could tell Menelaus's auburn hair from kilometers away as they were held together by a band around his head. He was well built and strong, seemed dressed in sunlight. Odysseus next to him seemed the opposite. He wasn't tall. He was barely average, a few decent inches shorter than her husband and a good head shorter than her brother-in-law however he seemed wider in shoulder and his chest resembled a wall dressed in a coat of dark curly hair. His head was adorned with black hair that seemed golden under the setting sun: bushy and curly like a ram held together by various little bands that held his curls tamed under his leather headband. His beard was equally bushy and shaggy even if he had obviously tried to make himself more presentable from the night before. His onyx eyes were bottomless holes. The man seemed tired; prematurely aged that day. Helen knew that he had a similar burden to bare with her. How strange indeed, she thought. The man seemed like coming from the night. And yet he seemed darker now; his shoulders seemed heavier than before.

"Take her home safely"

Odysseus's voice drew her out of her daydream. His voice was hoarse and tired. He seemed aged before his years. Helen remembered again the flamboyant young man that was supposed to court her. Sure his eyes filled with premature wisdom and intelligence gave him an aura of age but she could remember his laughter and smile seemed those of a teenager as if trying to persuade people of his actual age. Now that teen was gone. He was a man now; long past that first youth; a Sacker of Cities.

"Otherwise all this would have been for nothing!"

The timbre in his voice; the seer accusation, hurt her much more than anything besides her husband's distrust. No, at least Odysseus...the wise and prudent Odysseus should understand. Menelaus nodded to his loyal friend and shot her with yet another look. Helen couldn't decide if it was angry or closer to sad. As he walked away she turned again to look at Odysseus. The man barely saw her with the corner of his eye but spoke nothing. Helen couldn't bare the silence any longer.

"Odysseus..." she finally spoke, "Why? How can you be so cruel?"

"Cruel?" His voice was full of disbelief, of anger that made his chest rise like the tide

He turned to her walking like a lion ready to pounce. Helen stood her ground though. She stuck her ocean blue eyes deeply within his black ones.

"Cruel?" He repeated, "I've lost my son's first 10 years because of this war!"

"This war wasn't my choice!" Helen felt the need to defend herself against him.

"It commensed because of you!" The accusation was finally spoken outloud, "Menelaus started this because of you!"

"I didn't know he-..."

"YES YOU DID!" Odysseus finally bellowed making her take a step back, "yes you did...you just didn't think!"

He turned her back at her. He was about to leave but he didn't seem done yet.

"The blood of many brave Acheans is on your hands..."

That was way too much. Odysseus should know better than hurt her this way! This was unfair even if spoken through pain and anger. Bravely Helen held back the tears that burnt her eyes. He wouldn't see her weep!

"If I told you..." she began with the best voice she could master, "...that gods play games with us all the time...that they cloud our judgment... Would you believe me?"

Odysseus looked over his shoulder but spoke nothing.

"You of all people should understand" Helen whispered

"What does it matter what I'd believe?"

"It matters to me!" Helen replied firmly. "Please, Odysseus...at least you...at least you should believe me..."

Odysseus seemed ready to reply but the last minute he stopped himself. He chose silence; cruel and cold silence. He began walking away. Two angry tears ran down her white, rosy cheeks. No she couldn't leave it this way!

"ODYSSEUS!" She yelled after him, "you're a hypocrite!"

That stopped him to his tracks as he turned around.

"What?" He asked almost scandalized

Helen was shivering from top to bottom and her knuckles turned white from clenching them too hard.

"Do you think you're any better, Sacker of cities?!" The last one was spat like an insult like a curse, "do you think your hands are clean? You say that the war commensed because of me! That so many Greeks died because of me! Then what about you, Odysseus? What about all the Trojans killed in the city in that bloodbath?! What about all these women and children that are now piled up to be burnt or eaten by dogs and vultures? Who is to answer for THOSE Odysseus?"

Odysseus of Ithaca was frozen in place, shaking in anger but so was she. And she wouldn't be stopped now. She was Helen of Sparta, Helen of Troy, Helen the daughter of Zeus!

"It was your plan, your scheme that got the Greeks inside the holy city of Troy! It was your idea that gave them the way to sack it!"

Odysseus, the eloquent man seemed now unable to respond. He seemed stripped out of his furious anger although some of it was burning inside. Instead he managed to utter

"This massacre wasn't my choice..."

A sound between humorless and mocking laughter and cry came out of her mouth.

"Oh so you tell me you didn't know? You didn't know that the Greeks who were away from their homes, wives and children wouldn't unleash all their piled hatred? Didn't you know they would burn the city that kept them away from them to the ground so it wouldn't rise again?"

He didn't respond. Helen knew he couldn't.

"You say the blood of the Greeks is on my hands. Then the blood of Trojans is on yours!"

Odysseus seemed to have trouble breathing. She had hurt him and she knew it. Perhaps she had simply voiced everything he had in his mind all those days. She could remember how tenderly he spoke of his wife and son. Her husband used to say he identified himself as father of Telemachus not son of Laërtes. Women and children...his son and wife... He seemed ready to either lash at her or leave. However as always The Man of Many Ways sighed and did the unexpected; he spoke again.

"It doesn't matter whether I believe you or not, you know. What it matters is if he does"

Helen took a glance towards Menelaus from a distance. He was preparing the ship. She sighed and returned her gaze towards the man they called "equal to gods".

"But do you?"

"Yes" he finally admitted, "yes I believe you"

Helen sighed in relief. It was her thanking to him

"There is fate between us, Helen..." Odysseus said hoarsely.

Helen didn't need to see his face behind his wide back to read his expression.

"Yes" she replied, "you could have been my husband"

"I am glad that I'm not"

That husky whisper made her look up in wonder. She didn't expect that answer.

"You don't deserve me" the son of Laërtes said, "and I don't deserve you"

He barely looked at her again over his large shoulder.

"I see now why my cousin loved you" whispered she

"And I see why he loved you." Replied Odysseus, "why he started a war for you. Not for his pride; for you. You were indeed worth it..."

He looked at her again for the first time for a while.

"You and I have both blood on our hands" he said grimly, "you, the starter of war, hold the blood of many brave Acheans upon you...while I, the one who ended it, the Sacker of Cities, will have to live for the rest of my life carrying the deaths of Trojans upon me... Women and children..."

He covered his face with his large hand and turned around. He was sobbing.

"Women and children..." he whispered again, "Penelope...my sweet Telemachus...children... infants no older than he was..."

Helen was afraid to ask. She didn't want to know. She had met enough horror for a lifetime. She wanted to move on. She wanted to forget.

"Get home safely, Odysseus" she wished to him, "Husband to Penelope...father to Telemachus. I hope you will get what you wished for..."

"You too, Helen, kissed by the sun like golden Aphrodite...daughter of Zeus. Farewell Queen of Sparta..."

He walked away. Helen heard his voice yelling orders to his men like the expert sailor he was. Helen sighed and smiled so slightly. The title he used...was addressed to her. Odysseus had recognized her admitted her but also signaled her, her fate. She knew now she had a second chance to rectify everything; first for herself and next for everyone else.

The journey had come to an end. A new one was about to begin.

Okay guys I am so sorry I have no idea why or how but yeah...this... I hope you liked it.

[aaronofithaca05]

OH! Maybe that means Argos was more important than Mykene in the setting? I knew the Argives thing and such but would that mean that one of the words that described their culture was centered around Argos? this is just for the giggles, so it would be Argive culture instead of Mykenean? (I know is a really huge stretch) I know, Achaeans, Argives, Danaoans and Hellenes, but never thought Argives was because of that. I always thought it was becuase the most contingencies came from there, but NOPE! it seems it comes from the North! Also what does Pelasgian mean? P.d: THANKS SO MUCH!

Got the Illiad 3 days ago! I'm currently at the Catalogie of ships, I'm writing everything down, all, all of them, right now at the passage of the Echinaedes and such, trying to understand why Agammenon is king of Argos, and then Mykene, while Diomedes is later assigned that kingdom. Even if Argos and Mykene are close, I need to understand why this different naming convention, And what does it mean "Pelasgian Argos!" I need to *know*